SUGAR DUTIES BILL.

HC Deb 03 August 1848 vol 100 cc1113-8

The House went into Committee on the question that the duty on white clayed, or sugar equal to white clayed not being refined, he for every cwt. 15s. 2d.

LORD G. BENTINCK

said, that the duty of 15s. 2d. as now proposed by the hon. Baronet, was not in due proportion to the duty on refined sugar, as regulated by the old scale of duties. The duty in the second amended scale was proposed to be 18s. on double refined sugar, and 16s. on single refined, that being a reduction of 1s. 6d. for the higher class sugars, and 1s. 4d. for the lower class. By that rule, white clayed sugar was charged half as between muscovado and single refined sugar, which made the duty 15s. 2d. So long as the duty on single refined sugar was 17s. 4d., that might have been a fair distinction; but when they had reduced it to 16s., the proper rate would be 14s. 6d. The Chancellor of the Exchequer might say that the 16s. duty was an amalgamation of the duties of 18s. and of 17s. 4d.; but that was no answer, for it was perfectly clear that the duty should have been reduced from 15s. 2d. to 14s. 6d. for the years 1848 and 1849; that then it should be reduced to 13s. 4d., and in 1859 to 12s. 5d. To show the absurdity of the present rate as it stood, it was only necessary to compare the difference between the muscovado British, and the foreign brown clayed, which was 7s. Then let them compare the duty on white clayed British, which was reduced to 6s. 5d. So in proportion as they had a superior classed article, the less was it charged. It was 9s. 4d. on double refined sugar, it was 7s. on muscovado. He should therefore move the substitution of 14s. 6d. for 15s. 2d.

The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

had imposed a higher rate of duty on the white clayed sugar, as the article imported from the East Indies was of a finer description that that which was imported from the West Indies, He did propose to maintain the same relative differences between white clayed sugar and muscovado, he was not prepared to take from the West Indies the advantages thus obtained from them.

The Committee divided on the Amendment:—Ayes 29; Noes 99: Majority 70.

List of theAYES.
Barkly, H.	Hornby, J.
Bentinck, Lord G.	Jolliffe, Sir W. G. H.
Burrell, Sir C. M.	Lennox, Lord H. G.
Christy, S.	Manners, Lord G.
Dick, Q.	Newdegate, C. N.
East, Sir J. B.	Packe, C. W.
Edwards, H.	Robinson, G. R.
Floyer, J.	Sandars, G.
Fuller, A. E.	Somerset, Capt.
Gwyn, H.	Spooner, R.
Halford, Sir H.	Stuart, J.
Hamilton, G. A.	Urquhart, D.
Henley, J. W.	Verner, Sir W.
Hildyard, T. B. T.	TELLERS.
Hodgson, W. N.	Hudson, G.
Hood, Sir A.	Anstey, T. C.

List of the NOES.
Abdy, T. N.	Barron, Sir H. W.
Anderson, A.	Bellew, R. M.
Arundel and Surrey, Earl of	Berkeley, hon. Capt.
	Bouverie, hon. E. P.
Baillie, H., J.	Bowles, Adm.
Baring, rt. hon. Sir F.	Bowring, Dr.

Brotherton, J.	Lewis, G. C.
Brown, W.	Locke, J.
Bunbury, E. H.	Lushington, C.
Campbell, hon. W. F.	Mackinnon, W. A.
Cardwell, E.	M'Gregor, J.
Chaplin, W. J.	Marshall, J. G.
Cholmeley, Sir M.	Matheson, Col.
Clay, Sir W.	Maule, rt. hon. F.
Clements, hon. C. S.	Meux, Sir H.
Denison, J. E.	Morpeth, Visct.
Divett, E.	Morris, D.
Dodd, G.	Mostyn, hon. E. M. L.
Duncan, G.	O'Connell, M. J.
Dundas, Adm.	Ogle, S. C. H.
Ebrington, Visct.	Palmer, R.
Ellice, rt. hon. E.	Palmerston, Visct.
Elliot, hon. J. E.	Parker, J.
Evans, Sir D. L.	Pechell, Capt.
Fagan, W.	Pinney, W.
Ferguson, Col.	Power, Dr.
Ferguson, Sir R. A.	Rendlesham, Lord
Forster, M.	Rich, H.
Fortescue, C.	Russell, Lord J.
Fortescue, hon. J. W.	Rutherfurd, A.
Freestun, Col.	Sheil, rt. hon. R. L.
Gibson, rt. hon. T. M.	Smith, rt. hon. R. V.
Gordon, Adm.	Smith, J. A.
Goulburn, rt. hon. H.	Smith, J. B.
Grenfell, C. W.	Stanton, W. H.
Grey, rt. hon. Sir G.	Stuart, Lord D.
Grey, R. W.	Tancred, H. W.
Grosvenor, Earl	Thompson, Col.
Halliburton, Lord J. F.	Thornely, T.
Hastie, A.	Townshend, Capt.
Hastie, A.	Turner, G. J.
Hay, Lord J.	Vyvian, Sir R. R.
Hayter, W. G.	Willcox, B. M.
Headlam, T. E.	Willoughby, Sir H.
Henry, A.	Wilson, J.
Heywood, J.	Wood, rt. hon. Sir C.
Hobhouse, rt. hon. Sir J.	Wood, W. P.
Hodges, T. L.	Wrightson, W. B.
Howard, P. H.
Jervis, Sir J.	TELLERS.
Keppel, hon. G. T.	Tufnell, H.
Labouchere, rt. hon. H.	Hill, Lord M.

On the second division of the Schedule,

LORD G. BENTINCK

observed, that in this division of the schedule there were six fresh blunders; but as they were blunders in favour of the West India planters, he had nothing to say against them. The hon. Member for Westbury (Mr. Wilson) shook his head. So he had to the other quarter of a hundred blunders in the scheme; and it was only when the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer became convinced of the mistakes, that the hon. Gentleman became suddenly convinced of them also. The duty, as it was proposed for 1848–1849, was 17s.; it ought to be 16s. 6d. The duty for 1849–50 was 15s. 8d., it ought to be 15s. 3d. The duty for 1850–51 was 14s. 4d., it ought to be 14s. The duty for 1851–52 was 13s., it ought to be 13s. 3d The duty for 1852–53 was 12s. 5d., it ought to be 12s. 3d. The duty for 1853–54 was 11s. 10d., it ought to be 11s. 6d. It was not until 1854–55 that the proposed duty became correct. The right hon. Gentleman had taken a wrong datum line for his calculations. There was another trifling blunder of little importance, except as a blunder. The drawback on refined sugar was intended to be 1s. 4d. more than on bastard sugars. The duty ought in that case to have been 16s. 3d., not as it was proposed to be, 16s. 4d.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER

was understood to say that the noble Lord was not correct in the grounds of calculation which he had advanced. The schedule was of very little importance; but with the view of obtaining for the West India body a greater degree of protection than they now enjoyed, the duty on British brown clayed sugar was fixed in the same proportion above that on muscovado sugar, as was the duty on foreign brown clayed above that on foreign muscovado.

LORD GEORGE BENTINCK moved the restoration of Clause 6 of the Act 9 and 10 Vic., c. 63, namely, "sugar not to be entered, bonâ fide the growth and produce of the foreign country from which it is imported." The effect of this clause would be to protect the refiner of this country from the refined sugar of the Continent; and the warehouseman of this country from the sugar warehoused in Antwerp, Amsterdam, and Hamburg.

Clause brought up and read a first time. On the question that it be read a second time,

The Committee divided:—Ayes 31; Noes 78: Majority 47.

List of theAYES.
Anstey, T. C.	Hudson, G.
Bentinck, Lord G.	Lockhart, W.
Brisco, M.	Meux, Sir H.
Christy, S.	Mullings, J. R.
Dodd, G.	Newdegate, C. N.
East, Sir J. B.	Packe, C. W.
Floyer, J.	Repton, G. W. J.
Fuller, A. E.	Robinson, G. R.
Goulburn, rt. hon. H.	Seymer, H. K.
Grogan, E.	Sibthorp, Col.
Gwyn, H.	Spooner, R.
Halford, Sir H.	Stuart, J.
Hamilton, G. A.	Urquhart, D.
Henley, J. W.	Willoughby, Sir H.
Hodgson, W. N.	TELLERS.
Hood, Sir A.	Barkly, H.
Hornby, J.	Baillie, H.

List of the NOES.
Abdy, T. N.	Anderson, A.
Adair, R. A. S.	Anson, hon. Col.

Armstrong, R. B.	Mitchell, T. A.
Arundel and Surrey, Earl of	Morpeth, Visct.
	Morison, Sir W.
Barnard, E. G.	Morris, D.
Berkeley, hon. Capt.	Mowatt, F.
Blackall, S. W.	Muntz, G. F.
Bowring, Dr.	Ogle, S. C. H.
Buller, C.	Paget, Lord C.
Bunbury, E. H.	Parker, J.
Callaghan, D.	Peehell, Capt.
Campbell, hon. W. F.	Pinney, W.
Clements, hon. C. S.	Power, Dr.
Cowper, hon. W. F.	Ricardo, O.
Denison, J. E.	Rich, H.
Divett, E.	Romilly, Sir J.
Duncan, G.	Russell, Lord J.
Dundas, Adm.	Sheil, rt. hon. R. L.
Ebrington, Visct.	Shelburne, Earl of
Elliot, hon. J. E.	Smith, J. A.
Ferguson, Sir R. A.	Smith, J. B.
Forster, M.	Stanton, W. H.
Fox, R. M.	Stuart, Lord D.
Freestun, Col.	Tancred, H. W.
Gibson, rt. hon. T. M.	Thompson, Col.
Greene, J.	Thompson, G.
Grenfell, C. W.	Thornely, T.
Grey, R. W.	Tollemache, hon. F. J.
Hallyburton, Lord J. F.	Townshend, Capt.
Hastie, A.	Villiers, hon. C.
Hay, Lord J.	Ward, H. G.
Hayter, W. G.	Westhead, J. P.
Hoy wood, J.	Willcox, B. M.
Hobhouse, rt. hon. Sir. J.	Williams, J.
Hodges, T. L.	Wilson, J.
Howard, P. H.	Wilson, M.
Jervis, Sir J.	Wood, rt. hn. Sir C.
Labouchere, rt. hon. H.	TELLERS.
Lewis, G. C.	Tufnell, H.
M'Gregor, J.	Craig, G.

LORD GEORGE BENTINCK moved a, clause to permit the British refiner to enter his sugar refined in bond for homo consumption on the same terms as foreign refined sugars. All the British refiner asked was, that he should he placed on an equality with the Dutch refiner, leaving to the Dutch refiner all the advantages he obtained from the bounty in Holland.

Clause brought up.

On the question that it be read a second time,

The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

opposed it. The noble Lord was first the friend and then the opponent of the West Indian interest. Such a clause as this would not be palatable to the West Indian interest. Under this clause it would be impossible to prevent fraud. He was, however, willing to consider this question before next Session; but if any measure were introduced it must be far more general than that proposed by the noble Lord. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had lately been waited upon by several refiners, and they expressed themselves as opposed to the proposition of the noble Lord.

The Committee divided:—Ayes 41; Noes 73: Majority 32.

List of the AYES
Anstey, T. C.	Hudson, G.
Barkly, H.	Lockhart, A. E.
Bentinck, Lord G.	Lockhart, W.
Brisco, M.	Mitchell, T. A.
Brown, W.	Mullings, J. R.
Christy, S.	Muntz, G. F.
Disraeli, B.	Newdegate, C. N.
Divett, E.	Osborne, R.
Dodd, G.	Packe, G. W.
Duneuft, J.	Sandars, G.
Floyer, J.	Sibthorp, Col.
Fox, W. J.	Sidney, Ald.
Fuller, A. E.	Somerset, Capt.
Greene, J.	Spooner, R.
Grogan, E.	Stafford, A.
Gwyn, H.	Stuart, J.
Halford, Sir H.	Thompson, Col.
Hamilton, G. A.	Urquhart, D.
Hastie, A.	Williams, J.
Heuley, J. W.
Hodgson, W. N.	TELLERS.
Hood, Sir. A.	Thompson, G.
Hornby, J.	Smith, J. B.

List of the NOES.
Abdy, T. N.	Howard, P. H.
Adair, R. A. S.	Jervis, Sir J.
Anderson, A.	Labouchere, rt. hon. H.
Anson, hon. Col.	Lacy, H. C.
Armstrong, R. B.	Lascelles, hon. W. S.
Arundel and Surrey, Earl of	Lewis, G. C.
	M'Gregor, J.
Baillie, H. J.	Morpeth, Visct.
Barnard, E. G.	Morison, Sir W.
Bellew, R. M.	Morris, D.
Berkeley, hon. Capt.	O'Connell, M. J.
Blackall, S. W.	Ogle, S. C. H.
Boyle, hon. Col.	Paget, Lord C.
Brotherton, J.	Parker, J.
Buller, C.	Pinney, W.
Bunbury, E. H.	Power, Dr.
Callaghan, D.	Ricardo, O.
Campbell, hon. W. F.	Rich, H.
Cholmeley, Sir M.	Romilly, Sir J.
Cnlcbrooke, Sir T. E.	Russell, Lord. J.
Cowper, hon. W. F.	Sheil, rt. hon. R. L.
Craig, W. G.	Shelburne, Earl of
Duncan, G.	Smith, J. A.
Dundas, Adm.	Somerville, rt. hn. Sir W.
Ebrington, Visct.	Stanton, W. H.
Elliot, hon. J. E.	Tancred, H. W.
Ferguson, Sir R. A.	Thornely, T.
Forster, M.	Tollemache, hon. F. J.
Fox, R. M.	Villiers, hon. C.
Freestun, Col.	Ward, H. G.
Grenfell, C. W.	Westhead, J. P.
Grey, R. W.	Willcox, B. M.
Hay, Lord, J.	Wilson, J.
Hayter, W. G.	Wilson, M.
Henry, A.	Wood, rt. hon. Sir C.
Heywood, J.
Hobhouse, rt. hon. Sir. J.	TELLERS.
Hobhouse, T. B.	Tufnell, H.
Hodges, T. L.	Hill, Lord. M.

House resumed.

Report to be received.