§ MR. HUMEinquired whether the promised papers would be laid on the Table in sufficient time to enable him to bring forward on Monday his Motion respecting the armed interference of this Government between political parties in Portugal?
LORD J. RUSSELLanswered, that the papers would be on the Table on Monday evening. He proposed that the House should go into Committee of Supply on Friday, and then the hon. Member might make his Motion.
§ SIR D. L. EVANShoped the hon. Member would postpone his Motion to Friday. This was surely a subject of too great importance to be discussed without the fullest information that could be had.
§ MR. B. OSBORNEThey must be aware that a collision had already taken place between the British naval forces and the forces of the Junta of Oporto. His opinion was very strong in reference to the question; and if the hon. Member for Montrose did not press forward his Motion, he should take the earliest opportunity of bringing the subject under the notice of the House, because he conceived that the lives and liberties of men were not to be put in jeopardy on account of mere points of form. It was well observed the other night, by an hon. Gentleman opposite, that if there were an advantage to any party in discussing the subject without the papers being first produced, that advantage was entirely on the side of the Government.
§ MR. BORTHWICKwas of opinion that the hon. Member for Montrose had already made out a sufficient case why the House should not postpone the consideration of this very important question beyond Monday. The noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs informed the House last night, that he thought it probable the papers would be laid upon the Table to-night, and that they might be in the possession of hon. Members on Monday morning; and the right hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) advised the hon. Gentleman to wait until this evening, for the purpose of ascertaining whether the papers would be laid upon the Table. He had now risen to call attention to the circumstances of the case, as connected with the question, of precedent. Heretofore, when we had interfered in the affairs of a Foreign Power, it had been the 122 custom of the Minister to come down and obtain the assent of Parliament before taking those active steps which were now being taken in the Tagus. In 1826, Mr. Canning came down and read at the bar of the House a Message from the Crown, in which it was stated that the Crown of England had received urgent representations from the Princess Regent of Portugal, to the effect that an interference had taken place, or was about to take place, on the part of Spain. This communication was made to the House on the 11th of December, and Mr. Canning apologized for not making it earlier, he having received his information on the Friday preceding. Now, in that case, almost the first thing the Minister did, was to ask the assent of Parliament to the measures which the Crown proposed; and then, with the constitutional weight of that assent in his support, he proceeded to interfere, with the success which all Europe was witness to, and received the benefit of, at the time. In the present instance he did not see why any delay, even of one day, should have taken place. Unhappily, the House were too well acquainted with the facts of the case, though, as he said last night, he did not wish to prejudge its merits. The other evening, the First Lord of the Treasury (Lord J. Russell) informed the House that some overtures had been made to the Queen of Portugal, as he understood him, on the part of other Foreign Powers. Now, if the noble Lord alluded to overtures from Spain, which were too well known, proposing to make an aggression on the people of Portugal, who, one and all, asserted their right to breathe the air of their native land, and to hold their own opinions against a Government which had, by its acts as well as words, invaded their liberties to the extent of visiting with the punishment of death the holding of political opinions—if the statements that had been made public to all Europe were correct, then he said that the time was come when the British Parliament should be fully informed where for the ships of war of Her Britannic Majesty had opened a fire upon the ships of the Junta; and where for the British residents within Oporto were in such imminent danger of their lives as they were at this moment. The hon. and gallant Member for Westminster had said, they wanted to debate the question in ignorance. But the noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs was capable of informing the House of all the broad facts of 123 the case. He certainly should like to know how it was that the Queen of England, the representative of European liberty, could have anything in common with the Queen of Portugal, the representative of European despotism, for he could not conceive it. He did not usually take part with insurrection; hut when the whole body, almost without exception, of a people complained of aggressions on their liberty by the Crown, and when the Crown peremptorily refused, save upon compulsion, even to take their complaints into consideration, it then became a question with the Government of Great Britain, whether they ought not to take part with the people of Portugal rather than with their oppressor.
§ VISCOUNT PALMERSTONI could agree in one observation of the hon. Gentleman who has just sat down, and that is, that the House ought to be fully informed of the grounds on which Her Majesty's Government have acted. But, if so much impatience be displayed for an immediate discussion, it might he supposed that the hon. Gentlemen who profess their anxiety on the subject, wish the House to consider the question without being fully informed. It is for the purpose of putting the House in full possession of information, and for that purpose alone, that we ask the delay of a few days. Every possible exertion will be made to lay the papers on the Table of that House. I should hope that they will be ready on Monday morning; but undoubtedly on Monday evening I expect they will be in the course of delivery. I am not disposed, even considering the manner in which the hon. Gentleman has spoken, to follow him into the subject. But I will say I am convinced, when the papers are produced and we have stated our case, that the House will see it is not as the hon. Gentleman assumes, a case of assisting to establish a despotic Government in Portugal; but it will appear that the effect and consequence of our intervention will be to secure to the Portuguese people the full enjoyment of the liberties which were guaranteed to them by the charter of Don Pedro and the Portuguese constitution.
§ LORD J. MANNERSsaid, the wish of hon. Gentleman was not to debate the question before the House was fully informed upon it, but that the debate should take place while it was possible that some practicable object could be obtained by it. The hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr. Osborne) had told them of rumours having 124 reached town that a collision, or attempt at collision, had occurred between Her Majesty's fleet and a portion of the fleet of the Junta of Oporto; and there was no doubt that if orders had been sent out for immediate hostile interference on the part of England, the forces of the Junta must succumb to our superior forces; and it was because hon. Gentlemen were anxious that the cause of the Portuguese people should not be irremediably ruined before the papers were laid on the Table of the House, that they wished there should be no delay in coming to the discussion.
§ LORD H. VANEsaid, even if the discussion took place immediately, any decision of the House could not prevent those acts of interference taking place which were intended, and which, according to the statement of the hon. Member for Wycombe, had been already begun. He would, therefore, suggest to the hon. Member (Mr. Hume), that he would allow the discussion to take place on Thursday next. It would be impossible to take it on Monday; and, from what he (Lord H. Vane) could gather from the hon. Gentleman, he was willing the discussion should be postponed to Thursday, which was the earliest day after the production of the papers that the discussion should be taken with advantage.
§ MR. HUMEthought it desirable to obtain a vote on the question in the shape of a substantive Motion. Thursday was the first day on which he could bring it forward as a substantive Motion. If it were taken on Supply, or as an Amendment, the result would be left indeterminate; but he wished a fair and proper discussion on the subject, and would be perfectly content if, on Thursday, he were allowed to propose first in order his Motion as a substantive Motion.
LORD J. RUSSELLI fixed Friday, because my hon. Friend intimated, on a former occasion, that he wished to raise the discussion on a day selected for going into Committee of Supply. But if he prefer bringing forward his proposition for discussion as a substantive Motion on Thursday, instead of bringing it forward in another shape on Friday, I shall be prepared to postpone all the Orders of the Day on Thursday, to enable the hon. Gentleman to proceed on that day. The hon. Member for Wycombe mentioned that Her Majesty's naval forces had come into collision with the forces of the Junta. I am not in possession of any official information; but if the hon. Gentleman refers to the accounts 125 which have appeared in the newspapers, I must say that my impression from reading the newspapers is, that the collision reported to have taken place has occurred between the ships belonging to Her Majesty the Queen of Portugal and those belonging to the Junta, and not between Her Britannic Majesty's naval forces and the forces of the Junta.