§ MR. ROEBUCKbegged to put the question, of which he had given notice, relative to the estimated cost of the Government scheme for relieving Ireland. He presumed that the noble Lord at the head of the Government had not prepared his plan without making some calculation—he would not say a very nice one—as to its probable cost; and he presumed also that the noble Lord had formed some plan in his own mind with respect to the means of raising the necessary sum. He therefore begged to ask the noble Lord what would be the sum requisite for carrying out his proposed scheme in reference to Ireland, and what was the mode in which the noble Lord proposed to raise the sum; so that, when the discussion came on, the House might have the advantage of full information with respect to what was one of the most important elements of the scheme, viz., its expense?
LORD J. RUSSELLI can answer the hon. and learned Gentleman what has been the cost of the plan hitherto pursued. The amount issued from the Exchequer on account of the civil service up to the 1st of January was 1,000,000l., that is to say, 990,000l. and odd. Since that date, further demands have been made, and up to this moment an additional million has been required of the Exchequer. Together, 2,000,000l. have been required under the Public Works Act and the Poor Employment Act of last Session. With regard to the expenses of the Commissariat, that is a current account; certain quantities of provisions have been bought, and certain quantities sold; and of those purchases and sales it is impossible at this moment to make an accurate account; but if the present plan is to proceed—if we are to go 505 on under existing Acts of Parliament, supposing them to be kept in operation, we cannot expect that less than 500,000l. or 600,000l. per month will be spent, probably the sum might be even larger; and in the whole, by August or September next, it might not be less than 7,000,000l. But by the plan we propose, I believe there will be a reduction of expense which could not take place under existing Acts; how much that reduction may be I am not able to state; and it is impossible to tell how soon the presentment works may be discontinued. What may be the expense of the new plan, I am not in a condition to inform the House; but I conceive that it must be a reduction upon the expense incurred under the existing Acts. The hon. and learned Gentleman will see, therefore, that the amount can hardly now be estimated. We cannot yet arrive at a sufficient knowledge of the cost of the plan in operation, or of that which we propose to substitute for it. As to the provision to be made for so large an expenditure, it seems to me that it will be far better, in the present state of information, not to offer an opinion. By replying to the question, I am unwilling to commit the Government to any arrangement; and I apprehend that it will be better to reserve the matter for the financial statement, which will be made at a subsequent period of the Session. Whether that statement will be made before the ordinary time, I do not know; but sufficient notice shall be given of the intention of Government, either by my right hon. Friend or by myself.
§ MR. ROEBUCKadded, that the noble Lord, no doubt unintentionally, had not quite answered his question; he meant to embrace the cost of all the plans. On Monday last the noble Lord had detailed a separate scheme for the regeneration of the people of Ireland; but there was also another plan, connected with the buying of land and the loan of a quantity of money; and what he (Mr. Roebuck) wanted to know was, the probable cost of the whole of the scheme.
LORD J. RUSSELLAccording to the printed question of the hon. and learned Gentleman, he wished to be informed what was the sum considered necessary to carry into effect the plans for relieving distress in Ireland, and in what way the money was to be raised. I did not, therefore, suppose that he meant to ask what will be the whole expense of the various plans of all kinds for the future improvement of Ire- 506 land. As the Bills proceed, such information as can be given will of course be furnished; but the hon. and learned Gentleman will recollect that there was a sum of 1,000,000l. to be divided, under what was called the Drainage Act, in loans to landowners, to which they were entitled, if they were willing to comply with the conditions of the statute. As far as that million is concerned, we merely propose to alter the conditions—not to alter them as regards the payment of interest, or time, but as to the mode in which the money is to be laid out. With regard to immediate loans, we propose that 1,000,000l. be advanced from the Treasury; but as to most of the sums I mentioned, it is expected, where there is no considerable outlay at the first, that these sums shall be repaid.
§ MR. G. A. HAMILTONsaid, he had a question to ask of the right hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department, of which he had given him intimation. It appeared there was a collection about to be made under the authority of a Queen's Letter, for the relief of the distressed poor in Ireland; the question he had to ask—and he believed the amount of the collection would be influenced considerably upon the answer—was this: whether the sum to be collected was to be distributed by paid commissioners—paid out of the fund, as was the case with the Newfoundland collection, and which caused some dissatisfaction—or whether, the fund, being collected from the Church in this country, it was intended to administer it by an agency with which either the heads of the Church, or the clergy of the Established Church in Ireland, with whom their brethren in this country deeply sympathized, were to be in any way connected?
§ SIR GEORGE GREYstated, in answer to the question of the hon. Member, that it was not intended that there should be any paid commissioners, as was the case with the collection made under the Queen's Letter for the distressed people of Newfoundland. It was the intention of Government to place the fund to be collected at the disposal of the London committee, which comprised some gentlemen of the highest character in the country, and many of the dignitaries of the Church; and, in answer to the latter part of the question, the fund would be distributed through the local relief committees in Ireland, comprising, as was well known, the clergymen of the Established Church in each parish within the district.