HC Deb 12 February 1840 vol 52 cc162-4

Mr. Gillon moved the second reading of the Spirit Licences (Scotland) Bill. The object of it was to take out of the hands of magistrates the power of granting licences, and to transfer that power to the Excise.

Mr. Pringle

opposed the second reading of the bill. It would do away with certificates of character, which were now required once a-year; and no one he thought should wish to do away with that necessity. He moved that the bill be read a second time that day six months.

Mr. R. Steuart

said, that the bill did not interfere unjustly with the power of magistrates, but went merely to alleviate some of the inconveniences arising to persons in the spirit trade in Scotland. The principle of the bill was, that a man whose character was unimpeached, and against whom no complaint had been made to the magistrates, should not be compelled to travel a considerable distance to a county town to have his certificate renewed from the Excise Office. There was no desire on the part of those who introduced the bill, to lessen the power of the magistrates in withholding licences from persons whose characters were not unobjectionable. The object was merely to relieve the honest and upright dealer from unnecessary and irksome trouble.

Sir George Clerk

objected to the bill, because it interfered with the assimilation of the law of Scotland with the law in England upon the same subject. The law in both countries with respect to the renewal of licences by spirit-dealers was the same, and the bill in question interfered to set aside that equality. He would recommend that no sums for spirits under 20s. should be recoverable by action in Scotland, which would have a powerful influence upon the morals of the people, because it would prevent persons engaged in the sale of spirits from giving credit. He would recommend the hon. Member for Falkirk to leave the matter in the hands of the Government; but to the bill, in its present state, he would give his opposition, as interfering with the wholesome policy of the control of the magistrates.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer

said, that the advocates in the House for magisterial control, would admit, that that control ought to be exercised with the least inconvenience to the individuals over whom that control was to be exercised. The Government had had memorials, and numerous complaints had been made by persons who had experienced the inconvenience arising from the present system of licensing in Scotland. The object of the bill, in its present form, was, not to deprive the magistrates of any power they then possessed; and for that reason, and for the well-grounded reasons assigned by those who had made complaints to the Government, he would vote for the second reading of the bill. His object was, that persons of fair character engaged in the spirit trade should not, by any technical objection, be deprived of their licence, or be subject to the inconvenience of having their stock-in-trade lying on their hands, by reason of not applying upon a particular day to the bench for a certificate.

Mr. Herries

would oppose the bill, as he believed, that it would afford satisfaction neither to the magistrates, nor to the individuals for whose benefit it was said to be introduced.

The House divided on the original motion:—Ayes 42; Noes 60: Majority 18.

List of the AYES.
Aglionby, H. A. Fleetwood, Sir P. H.
Aglionby, Major Fort, J.
Baines, E. Hastie, A.
Baring, rt. hon. F. T. Howard, P. H.
Barnard, E. G. Lushington, S.
Blake, M. J. Macaulay, rt.hn.T.B.
Bowes, J. Macleod, R.
Bulwer, Sir L. Maule, F.
Corbally, M. E. Miles, W.
Craig, W. G. Morpeth, Viscount
Dennistoun, J. Morris, D.
Elliot, hon. J. E. O'Brien, W. S.
Pechell, Captain Wallace, R.
Pigot, D. R. Warburton, H.
Pryme, G. White, A.
Rutherfurd, A. Williams, W.
Salwey, Colonel Winnington, Sir T.E.
Smith, J. A. Wyse, T.
Style, Sir C. Yates, J. A.
Thornley, T. TELLERS.
Turner, E. Steuart, R.
Vigors, N. A. Gillon, Mr.
List of the NOES.
Arbuthnolt, hon. H. Hughes, W. B.
Blackstone, W. S. Inglis, Sir R. H.
Blair, J. Johnstone, H.
Boldero, H. G. Kirk, P.
Bolling, W. Knatchbull, Sir E.
Bramston, T. W. Knox, hon. T.
Broadley, H. Lowther, J. H.
Brotherton, J. Mackenzie, T.
Clerk, Sir G. Mackenzie, W. F.
Cochrane, Sir T. J. Packe, C. W.
Corry, hon. H. Pakington, J. S.
Darby, G. Palmer, G.
Douglas, Sir C. Parker, R. T.
Duncombe, hon. A. Polhill, F.
Eaton, R. Rose, rt. hon. Sir G.
Fector, J. M. Round, J.
Filmer, Sir E. Rushout, G.
Gordon, hon. Capt. Sharpe, General
Gore, O. J. R. Shaw, rt. hon. F.
Goulburn, rt. hon. H. Sheppard, T.
Graham, rt. hn. Sir J. Somerset, Lord G.
Grant, hon. Colonel Sugden, rt. hon. Sir E.
Grant, F. W. Sutton, hon. J. H. T.
Grimsditch, T. Vere, Sir C. B.
Hector, C. J. Verner, Colonel
Heneage, G. W. Waddington, H. S.
Hepburn, Sir T. B. Young, J.
Herries, rt. hn. J. C. Young, Sir W.
Hodgson, R.
Holmes, W. TELLERS.
Hope, hon. C. Pringle, T.
Hope, G. W. Lockhart, W.

Bill put off for six months.