HC Deb 23 August 1839 vol 50 cc584-7

Mr. Hume moved, that it is inexpedient to make any contract or agreement for the conveyance of the mails to the West Indies and Continent of South America for so long a period as ten years, and involving an expenditure of 2,400,000l., until full information shall be obtained in that important department, and be laid before this House. In submitting this resolution on a subject to which he had recently adverted—he wished it to be understood, that he did not mean to underrate the importance of facilitating the conveyance of the Colonial Mails—on the contrary, he felt this to be most important. But he believed that the Colonial Post-office arrangements had been grossly neglected, and that the present proceeding was wholly irregular. He had anticipated, that the Government would have sent out a Commission to investigate the subject; and disappointed indeed was he to find, that without any public advertisement, they should have concluded a contract by which the country would be bound, for ten years, and in a gum of 2,400,000l. The Government should have settled the different lines of communication, and managed so that the larger vessels should not be put on the longest transits. He had no hesitation in saying, that from the information he had received, much more might be saved in the contract, and that the line of packets might be almost made to support itself. He knew not what power had been given by the Parliament to any authorities to make a contract for ten years, and the sooner a stop was put to those proceedings the better. He understood that operations would commence about the end of the year 1841, and it was necessary that the opinion of Parliament should be taken on the subject as early as possible.

Mr. C. Wood

did not think he could add a great deal to the explanation he had given on a former occasion, as to the nature of the contract. There were two or three points to which he thought it necessary to advert, and first, as to the power of the Treasury to enter into these contracts. Surely the hon. Gentleman who had himself recommended the Government to enter into these contracts, would not now deny their power to do so, or if he thought they had not that power, he never would have urged them to make contracts for the conveyance of the mails. These contracts necessarily depended upon the annual votes of Parliament, and if the hon. Member referred to what had been the uniform practice, he would find that there were regular votes of Parliament on the subject. So far, therefore, as the power went, there had never been any question, and it had been invariably exercised, subject to the opinion of the House in the annual estimates. It was urged that inquiry should be made as to the regular lines of communication, and the best mode of transmitting the mails. But did the hon. Member suppose that the persons at the head of the Post-office communication in that part of the world and at home, were without any information on the subject—that they were not acquainted with the prevalent winds and currents, and that the naval officers on the West India station, the Post-office, and the Treasury, were not possessed of all the information that could possibly be given on the subject, so as to enable them to decide upon the most eligible plan? It was further urged, that it was a great waste of strength to employ large vessels in communications between the different islands; but if vessels of large tonnage and great power were required at all, it was in these places, in order that the mails from the different islands might be in time for the homeward-bound packet to England. There was no ground, therefore, for the hon. Member's objection on that point. One hon. Member had said, that no complaints had been made on this subject. Now the fact was, that the Admiralty had received repeated complaints of the inefficiency of the vessels employed to contend with the Gulf stream. There was also this great advantage, that few persons had had the experience which the Admiralty had as to the conducting of large steam operations. Four out of seven of the steam vessels employed in the West Indies had been sent home during the last year, having completely broken down; thus proving the absolute necessity of employing steam vessels of large power in those seas. He had desired one of the clerks of the Admiralty to furnish him with the complaints which had been received on this subject at the Admiralty, during the course of the last year, and he had been furnished with an immense pile of papers in consequence. It had been stated that no complaints had been received except from persons interested in this contract. Complaints had been received from the British merchants residing in Mexico; from the merchants of Liverpool; from the merchants of Bristol; from the merchants of Barbadoes; from the merchants of Jamaica, and from Mr. Burge, the agent from that island; from the inhabitants of Mountserrat; from British merchants at the Havannah; from the Deputy Postmaster at Jamaica; from the Governor of the Leeward Islands; and from the Governor of Antigua. All these were persons residing in that part of the world, and who were totally unconnected with the parties who had entered into this contract. He had received a representation from the President of the Chamber of Commerce at Glasgow, stating that the merchants of Glasgow were better acquainted with these matters than any other persons, and could give the Admiralty much useful information. He had returned an answer, stating that he should be happy to receive any suggestions from them, but from that hour to this, he had received no communication whatever from those gentlemen, nor had he any reason to suppose that he should. He entirely agreed with his hon. Friend, that the principle of public competition ought to be acted on as far as possible, but however good this was in theory, they had found that in every casein which they had put up a contract to public competition they had failed. The principle had always failed in practice. They had put up the contract for carrying the mails to Halifax to public competition, and the lowest offer they had for communication twice a-month, was 45.000l. They had afterwards, however, made a private contract for a fortnightly communication with Halifax and Nova Scotia, and a branch communication to Quebec and Boston, for 60,000l. The great advantage of public competition was, in his opinion, the enabling them to judge for what sum the contracts might be performed. The contracts which they had entered into in this instance, were as low as those into which they had entered for conveying the mails to Halifax, the terms of which were twice as good as the best offers that had been made by public competition. He therefore considered, that the terms were advantageous. With regard to the time for which the contract had been entered into, how could the hon. Gentleman suppose that any body of men would make an outlay of from 80,000l. to 100,000l. in the building of steam-vessels, unless their agreement was such as to enable them to wear out these vessels, or at least secure them something like an adequate return for their outlay. The Government had stipulated, that if any great improvement took place in the mode of impelling steam-vessels, that then the parties to this contract were bound, upon a suggestion being made to that effect from the Admiralty, to adopt such improvements. He did not think that any Government could have done more in order to ensure the greatest facility.

Mr. Warburton

thought the Government were entitled to the thanks of the country, for the contracts they had entered into upon this subject; but the question was, whether on entering into contracts for so long a period, the public ought not to be satisfied that they were entering into those that were most beneficial to the public.

House counted out.