HC Deb 05 August 1836 vol 35 cc928-42

The Order of the Day for the House going into a Committee of Supply having been read, on the question, that the Speaker do leave the Chair,

Mr. Barlow Hoy

rose to bring forward the motion of which he had given notice on this subject. He should endeavour to be as brief as the importance of the subject would permit him—a subject of the highest interest to the great cause of humanity, and of immense importance to our colonial possessions in the western world, and to a large body of our most respectable merchants at home, who had embarked 70,000,000 dollars in the Mexican dominions. What, let him ask, would be the consequence if the United States should be suffered to wrest the Texas from Mexico, and to take possession of it? Would not Cuba and the other Spanish possessions in the gulf of Mexico then soon fall a prey to the United States? Some weeks ago, in answer to a question from him (Mr. B. Hoy), as to whether the noble Lord had had any correspondence with the Mexican Government on the subject of the establishment of the slave-trade in the Texas, the noble Lord said, that if the Mexican Government should prevail in the present war in Texas, he had no doubt that the laws of Mexico against the slave-trade would be carried into effect, but that the case might be different if the other side should succeed. Now, he (Mr. B. Hoy) would contend, that whether the Texas should remain a province of Mexico, or should revolt and become a portion of the United States, it would be still equally bound by the treaty which it had entered into with this country, as a portion of the Mexican dominions, to prevent the carrying on of the slave-trade within its territory. He could quote abundant authorities on that point; he would quote the authority of the noble Lord himself in the first instance. The noble Lord himself, some nights ago, in answer to an observation from him, in reference to Holland, said, that there could be no doubt that Holland was bound by a treaty which it had made with this country, when Holland and Belgium were united. The war now carrying on in Texas was a war not for independence, not for liberty, but positively for slavery. That was the object for which the Texians had revolted. To confirm this, the hon. Member read an account of the proceedings of a public meeting held at Brasoria, on March 17, and quoted the resolutions passed, one of which declared that, "Necessary and effective measures should be promptly adopted for securing, in a proper manner, all negroes against the means of doing injury to their families, and placing all in a state of every possible safety." The laws of Mexico prohibited carrying on the slave-trade, and if this revolted province should remain a portion of the United States, and should, as such, proceed to carry on that abominable traffic, it would directly violate a treaty made with this country. The press of America had long taken the part of the Texians, and had spread the most exaggerated statements against the Mexicans, It was evident that, the independence of Texas once established, that province would soon be added to the federal union of North America. The number of States in the union had originally been but thirteen; they were now increased to twenty-six; and there could be no doubt, that if Texas were added to the union, the basis of the connexion would be to establish slavery, and the slave-trade, permanently, in that province. He begged to ask the noble Lord (Palmerston) if, within the last ten days, he had not received an application from the Mexican Government to use the good offices of this country, to remonstrate with the United States against the violation of treaties, and the various aggressions of the southern states, on the dominions of Mexico. The hon. Member, in support of this view, read extracts from an article in the Times newspaper, and from speeches of Mr. John Quincy Adams, to shew the importance to America, in a commercial point of view, of annexing Texas to its territory, and to prove the intention of the United States Government to effect the union. It was now for that House to consider whether, after the enormous sums expended in abolishing and putting down slavery, it would render the whole of that expenditure useless, and allow slavery to take deep root in situations with respect to which this country, had both the power and right to interfere in suppressing it. Let the House bear in mind the cost to which already Great Britain had been put in repressing the slave-trade. The expense of the establishment at Sierra Leone was annually 40,795l..—the support of captured slaves 25,000l.—the expense of the Commissioners, 16,000l.—the expenses of twelve vessels stationed off the coast of Africa, 60,000l. and for eight or ten vessels in South America and the West Indies, 25,000l. more. These expenses were annual, and still continuing charges upon the country. The several items amounted to 166,000l. If to these payments was added the interest upon the 20,000,000l. given to the West-Indies, with the grants to Spain and Portugal, and the head-money formerly paid to the navy, to the amount of 484,000l. per annum, the whole annual expenditure of this country for the suppression of the slave trade was about 1,100,000l., calculating the interest at about 3½ per cent. Even now, despite this expenditure, such was the state of Texas, that the slave-trade had of late years increased. In the last year, 1835, no less than eighty vessels had left Cuba with slaves; and a calculation had reached him, that not less than 13,000 slaves were thus annually introduced into Texas and its neighborhood. With these facts before it, would the House consent to further protection being given to the system at which humanity shuddered? But supposing the independence of Texas to be established, and that it formed part of the United States, let the House consider what vast commercial advantages the latter would gain over this country. By that junction, the United States would be brought within six weeks sail of China. Neither ought the importance of the possession of the mining districts by America, be lost sight of by this country. The mines of Texas were of immense value—one alone having produced not less than 30,000,000 dollars. Unless Mexico was assisted, as she ought to be by this country, she would be so weakened as soon to become an easy victim to the ambition of the United States of America; and his (Mr. B. Hoy's) ob- ject, therefore, was, to induce the House to address the Crown for the due fulfilment of an existing treaty, in which Great Britain bound herself to co-operate with Mexico. He contended, that the employment of the word "co-operate" showed that this country ought to afford every species of assistance to Mexico, not only by remonstrating in an amicable manner with the United States, but by sending out a naval force to assist Mexico against Texas, and to prevent aggression by the United States. He entreated all who felt a real and a zealous interest in the abolition of slavery, to join with him for this purpose; and he maintained that no time ought to be lost by this Government in remonstrating with the United States. The Texians were men of many nations, in the lowest scale of morality, and interested as speculators in carrying on the slave-trade. He concluded by moving, "That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, praying him to direct, that such measures may be taken as may seem proper to secure the fulfilment of the existing treaty between this country and Mexico; and to prevent the establishment of slavery and traffic inslaves in the province of Texas, in the Mexican territory."

Mr. Ward

seconded the motion, and said that the deep interest which he had long taken in the question induced him to say a few words. From the time of his mission to Mexico, he had observed that it had been the fixed determination of the United States, by fair means or foul, to obtain possession of the province of Texas. Hon. Members might, perhaps, not be aware of the importance and value of such an acquisition. That territory contained upwards of 120,000,000 of acres of the finest land: it was watered by several navigable rivers, having their embouchures in the gulf of Mexico; and on its coast were to be found many harbours, superior to all others in the adjoining territories, and the possession of which would give them a complete command of that gulph. When Mexico became an independent state, her government agreed to abolish slavery in its dominions. He could answer for the fact that during his residence in that country the treaty was most rigidly enforced, and at present he would take upon himself to say that there were not more than twenty slaves in it. Ever since the erection of Mexico into an independent republic, the United States had cast most covetous eyes upon the province of Texas. He had observed a curious proof of it during his residence in Mexico, when, through their agent, Mr. Poinsett, they took measures for the purpose of obtaining such a party in the Mexican Congress as would consent to allow them to have the Texas for a certain number of dollars. This endeavour failing, the United States had had recourse to other means; they encouraged all the refuse of their population to overflow the boundary line between the United States and the Texas, and to take possession of the lands of the latter. This was done; the lands of Texas were occupied by subjects of the United States, a Texian Land Scrip was created, and the Stock became the subject of speculation in the markets of New York and New Oilcans. No Texian had any interest in it. The territory was in the hands of some ten, fifteen, or eighteen thousand adventurers—men recognising no laws, and seeking for nothing but the means of turning their land to the utmost account. When he was in Mexico there had been in communication with Mr. Poinsett, upon the subject of the occupation of Texas, an American, who was now the President of the new Texian Republic—a man of talent certainly, but utterly devoid of principle. As a further proof of the connection of the United States, he would state that Mr. Forsyth, a Member of the Cabinet, was reported to be a very large owner of Texian land. Thus it appeared that Texas, being undeniably a country belonging to Mexico by solemn treaty, and being uninhabited, the Americans had created a population in it, and instigated that population to declare itself independent; and the Committee of foreign relations in the Senate then came forward with a solemn report, ushered in by Mr. Clay, gravely discussing the absolute necessity of recognising the independence of Texas—a State which they had created from the offscourings of the population of their own Western States, and which they had encouraged in every way, by furnishing supplies of men, arms, and munitions of war, to sever itself from Mexico. There were two considerations which ought to weigh with them in discussing this question. The first was the question of general policy—whether it were advisable to allow the United States to pursue a system of aggrandisement without any endeavour on our part to check them, and to allow the extension of their territory to the Rio Bravo and the Gulf of Mexico, in such manner as to obtain for them the absolute command of that Gulf; for certainly the acquisition of Texas would give them that command, and would enable them with half a dozen privateers to shut us out entirely from our present trade with Mexico, leaving us no route whatsoever by which to maintain a commercial intercourse with that country save that leading round Cape Horn to its western coast. Upon the importance of that trade, not only in reference to its present actual amount, but in reference also to the large probable increase which it would undergo, it was unnecessary for him to dwell; it was growing more extensive every day; nor could he see any definite limit to its increase in future years. Our connection with Mexico was rendered, too, more intimate by this circumstance, that we possessed a large capital invested in mining adventures in that country. It was impossible, then, to contemplate without anxiety, events having a tendency, apparently, to sever from the Mexican State a most valuable portion of its territory, and to place our trade with that state at the mercy of a commercial rival. The noble Lord must be aware that in 1825 there had been a somewhat similar project, on the part of the United States, to obtain possession of the island of Cuba. There were at that time in Cuba three parties, severally wishing for a connection with England, France, and America; the mutual jealousy of the three countries, however, prevented any one of them from taking possession of the island, and they came to a solemn treaty—notes having been actually interchanged by their respective Governments—that neither England, France, nor America, should interfere with Cuba, but that it should be left in the possession of Spain. The other consideration of which he had spoken, as one which ought to have weight in the discussion of the question, was the consideration of moral feeling which must influence every Gentleman acquainted with the condition of Society in the Western States of the Union, and every Gentleman aware of the incalculable misery which the system of slavery, there prevailing, inflicted upon so many millions of human beings. The question to be decided under this view of the subject was whether, for the purpose of maintaining that demoralizing system, they would allow the annexation of the territory of Texas to the United States. In a pamphlet recently published upon the subject in the Union, a great fear was expressed as to the consequences of such an event on the part of the non-slaveholding States; for doubtless the House must be aware that the States were at present divided into two great parties, the slaveholding and the non-slaveholding States; that a struggle had been for some time carrying on between them in the national Legislature, and that the parties were now pretty equally balanced. The result of the annexation of the province of Texas would be the creation of nine additional slaveholding States, with eighteen Representatives in the Congress at Washington; and that circumstance would put an end to all hopes of doing away with a system which formed the most degrading feature in the whole frame of the United States. He thought that the subject was one which deserved the most serious consideration of his Majesty's Ministers, and on that account he earnestly supported the motion.

Viscount Palmerston

If at the beginning of the observations he should make upon what had fallen from the hon. Member (Mr. B. Hoy) opposite, and from his hon. Friend, the Member for St. Alban's (Mr. Ward), he stated that he did not feel himself at liberty to agree to the motion for an address to the Crown upon, the subject to which the hon. Gentleman's motion referred, he trusted that neither the hon. Member nor the House would imagine that that was any proof that he did not feel the full importance of the subject, or that the Government was not as much animated as he was by a sincere desire to put an end to those evils to which mainly the proposed address related. But he thought, and he trusted before he concluded, he should satisfy the House that such an address would be at the present moment in some respects unnecessary, and in other respects premature. The observations made by the hon. Mover, and those by his hon. Friend (Mr. Ward) appeared to divide themselves, properly speaking, into two different branches, one relating to the political part of the question, the other to the separate topic of the trade in slaves. With regard to the political branch of the subject, undoubtedly the possibility or the probability of the province of Texas being added to the United States of North America would be a subject which ought seriously to engage the attention of that House and of the British public. But with regard to that question he did not think that the events which had yet occurred, afforded any ground to think that there was at present any such probability of a result of that kind as to call upon that House to agree to an address to the Crown with respect to it. The present state of the province of Texas was this:—That whereas a revolt had taken place in that province; a Mexican army had been dispatched for the purpose of putting it down; that their first operations were greatly successful; but that a portion of the army having incautiously advanced considerably before the main body, was surprised by a portion of the Texian force, routed with great slaughter, and the President, who happened to be with that part of the Mexican army, taken prisoner. But he (Lord Palmerston) thought the House could not infer from that single event what would be the ultimate issue of the war now going on in Texas. It was probable, that the resistance of the people of that province might prevail against the authority of Mexico; but, on the other hand, the advantage of numerical superiority was at present possessed in a very considerable degree by the arms of Mexico; and by the latest accounts that had been received, it appeared, that the Government of that country were making great efforts to increase and equip their army. He thought, therefore, that Parliament was not at that moment in a condition to infer from what had happened, what would be the probable result of the struggle. With respect to the conduct of the United States of North America, although he was aware, as had been stated by the hon. Gentleman, and by his hon. Friend, that individuals in those States, bordering on the province of Texas, had given great assistance to the revolted population; yet, if they looked to what had been the conduct of the responsible government of the United States, they would find in the message sent to Congress by the President, at the beginning of the Session, the most unequivocal declaration, that the government of the United States would take no part in the war then raging between Mexico and her revolted province; and they would further find, that orders were issued by the government to enforce the laws of the United States, and to prevent its subjects from mixing themselves up in the dispute. He had too high an opinion of the honour and good faith of the government of the United States not to believe that it would act up to the declarations it had made upon the subject; and he thought, therefore, that such circumstances ought to arise before it would be fitting on the part of that House to send to the Crown any address bearing upon the political branch of the question. Now, with respect to that part of it which related to the trade in slaves, the hon. Gentleman had remarked, that in the correspondence between the Government at home and its agents abroad, which had been laid upon the table of that House, with regard to the progress or diminution of the trade in slaves, nothing appeared bearing upon the trade supposed to exist in the province of Texas. That was very true; and the explanation of it was, that the British Government had no agent resident in the province of Texas; and it was but lately that they had received from the British Ministers at Mexico any representation bearing upon the illicit trade which was supposed to be carried on in Texas. Now, it would undoubtedly be a very great evil, and be very much to be deplored, if the course of the civil war, be it what it might, should lead to an extension or to a renewal of the system of slavery. That was unquestionably a subject well deserving the attention of the House; and if the House were of opinion, that the Ministers were indifferent to the matter, or not disposed of their own accord to bestow upon it their most vigilant attention, and to do everything which might be in the power of the Crown to prevent such an evil, it would undoubtedly be its duty to admonish the Government upon the subject, by adopting a similar proposition to that now offered by the hon. Member for Southampton. But he assured the House, that the Government required no such stimulus to induce it to perform its duty upon that point; and he trusted, that that which it had already done, and that which it was in the course of obtaining, would be accepted by the House as a proof that it was as anxious and as active as the House could wish, endeavouring, to the utmost of its power, to put down the trade in slaves in every part of the world where it was at present carried on, and to prevent its springing up in quarters where it did not at present exist. But if the House considered what the effect of the progress of events in the province of Texas might have on the matter, he did not think there was any remarkable danger of an encouragement of the slave-trade being the result of the civil war between that state and Mexico. It was evident, either that Texas would be recovered by Mexico, and become again subject to the laws and authority of that country, or assert its own independence and become a separate state, or, having freed itself from Mexico, it might choose to attach itself to the United States. If the authority of the Mexican Government were established, then the laws of Mexico would again come into operation in Texas, and then, as far as internal administration was concerned, there would be no more encouragement to the slave-trade in that province, as a part of the territory of Mexico, than in any other part of the world. But in reference to anything that the Government of Mexico could do at the present moment, it was perfectly obvious that, whilst its authority was thrown off by Texas, and it was unable to rule or to make its laws obeyed in that province, it would be in vain for the Government of this country to apply to Mexico to put down the trade in slaves which might be carried on in that rebellious part of their territory. In the second place, if the province of Texas should establish its independence, it would then be for the Government of England, in addressing itself to the new state, to enter into such negotiations as would induce it to contract with England a similar engagement for the suppression of the slave-trade to those already entered into by many, and he hoped soon to be able to state by all the civilized nations of the world. If, in the third place, at any future and distant time the Texian province should become a member of the United States of North America, then undoubtedly there would be some danger that at least from other states of the union, slaves might be introduced into that particular province; but there would, he thought, be no real danger of slaves being brought there either from the coast of Africa, or from any of the islands of the West Indies. If there had hitherto been any importation of slaves into the province of Texas—and in candour he was bound to state he believed there had—he believed that they came chiefly from Cuba and from the neighbouring islands in the West Indies; he had not heard of any cargo having been received direct from the coast of Africa. With respect to the importation of slaves from Cuba, that was part of a larger question, which he trusted had now been satisfactorily disposed of. The House was aware that the British Government had concluded a treaty with Spain for the suppression of the slave trade, containing what he thought and believed would be most effectual provisions for putting an end to that trade under the flag of Spain. That treaty had only recently come into operation, and the statements which the hon. Gentleman (Mr. B. Hoy) had referred to, of the transfer of slaves from Cuba to Texas, related to an antecedent period. The House knew, that some years ago the Government of France had entered into a treaty with Great Britain, by which a mutual right of search, subject to certain limitations, was conceded by the one country to the other; and containing other arrangements for the more effectual suppression of the trade in slaves. What had been the result? Prior to that treaty, the slave trade had been carried on to an enormous extent under the flag of France; but from the moment that the treaty came into operation, he did not believe a single slave ship had sailed under French colours. England had now concluded a similar treaty with the government of Spain. Previous to the conclusion of that treaty, and almost up to the moment at which he was then speaking, the flag of Spain had been extensively used for the purpose of carrying on the trade in slaves. But he trusted and believed, that the effect of the provisions now entered into by this Government, which, in the case of France had been effectual, would have an equally effectual operation in putting down the trade which had hitherto been carried on under the flag of Spain; and that the enormous traffic in slaves which had been carried on in Cuba, in defiance of all the remonstrance of the British Government, would speedily be put an end to, and with it that minor branch of the same disgraceful trade which had recently been partially established in Texas. There was, however, another flag which had been still more abused for the purposes of the slave trade than either of those he had yet mentioned—he meant the flag of Portugal. The papers which had been laid on the table of the House contained a painful enumeration of the abominations which had been carried on under that flag; and hardly a week passed without his receiving fresh accounts, the last still exceeding the previous one, of the enormities committed under the colours of Portugal. But he was happy to state that a negotiation with that country, for the purpose of concluding a treaty precisely similar to that concluded with Spain, had been brought so nearly to a conclusion, that he hoped before many weeks elapsed he should receive it signed. If he were not disappointed in that expectation, he trusted that his Majesty's Government would succeed in putting down the slave trade under the flag of Portugal, in the same manner as it had already succeeded in putting that trade down which was carried on under the flag of France, and as they were now in the course of putting down that carried on under the flag of Spain. There then remained the flag of Brazil, which, in spite of the treaty upon the subject, was still in some degree applied to the purposes of the slave trade. The government of Brazil, however, had now signed two supplementary articles, containing the essential stipulations without which their former treaty had not been effectual for the purpose for which it was intended. These were what were called the equipment and the breaking-up articles, without which it was found that any treaty upon the subject of the slave trade was completely nugatory. If the British Government succeeded in obtaining the accession of these different governments to its views, it would have the satisfaction of knowing that it had united in one common cause, for the purpose of putting down the slave trade, almost all the maritime powers whose flags could be abused or prostituted to the purposes of that disgraceful and inhuman traffic. But Government had gone still further; it had made propositions to the governments of Austria, Russia, and Prussia, which powers had not, hitherto, agreed to any treaties upon the subject. They had lately consented to treat upon it, conjointly with the governments of France and England; and before long he trusted we should obtain the sanction of those three great powers, in addition to those he had already mentioned. He said, therefore, that the question of slavery in the province of Texas was a small and comparatively insignificant branch of a much greater and more extensive question, and if Ministers succeeded, as he trusted they would, in carrying their objects and views into effect with respect to the general question, the House, he thought, might be pretty easy as to any encouragement to the slave trade in Texas. If, indeed, they should find, after all their treaties had been concluded, that there still continued to be an importation of slaves into that province, it would then undoubtedly be the will and inclination of the Government, as it would unquestionably be its duty, to take such immediate steps as the circumstances of the case should seem to require, and to endeavour, by every means in its power, to put an end to any abuse that might spring up in that quarter. Upon the political ground, he submitted it would be premature for the House to address the Crown to take any steps with reference to the war now carrying on in the province of Texas; and with regard to the slave-trade part of the question, he ventured to submit, that it was not necessary for the House to take any such step as that proposed by the present motion. If the House thought it an unnecessary step to address the Crown upon a point upon which the Crown and its advisers appeared already to be ready and willing to act, the adoption of a motion of this kind would, in fact, amount to a censure on the conduct of the Government, which he would be bold enough to say it did not merit, and which he did not believe it to be the intention of the hon. Mover to convey. Before he sat down he might state that it was his intention, before the expiration of the present Session, to submit to the consideration of the House a Bill immediately connected with one branch of the subject now under discussion, namely, the slave trade; and the statement he had just made would, he thought, sufficiently explain the necessity for him to do so. Of the different treaties of which he had spoken as being in a state of progress, he confidently hoped they should obtain the completion within a few weeks after the termination of the present Session of Parliament; but the House well knew that these treaties could not be carried into execution without the sanction of Parliamentary enactment. In order, therefore, to prevent the delay which must necessarily take place between this and the next Session of Parliament, he should be disposed, with the permission of the House, to bring in a short Bill of a limited duration, and by which the Crown should be empowered, by an order in Council, to give immediate effect to any treaties which it might conclude with foreign powers for the suppression of the slave trade, without waiting for a specific Bill to carry each into practical effect. If such an authority were given, it would save considerable time, and would enable the Crown more effectually and more speedily to carry the object of those treaties into effect.

Mr. Fowell Buxton

expressed his belief that if the Americans should obtain possession of Texas, which had been truly described as forming one of the fairest parts of the world, a greater impulse would be given to the slave-trade than had been experienced for many years. If the British Government did not interfere to prevent the Texian territory from falling into the hands of American slave-holders, in all probability a greater traffic in slaves would be carried on during the next fifty years than had ever before existed. The war at present being waged in Texas, differed from any war which had ever been heard of. It was not a war for the extension of territory—It was not a war of aggression—it was not one undertaken for the advancement of national glory; it was a war which had for its sole object the obtaining of a market for slaves. He would not say, that the American Government connived at the proceedings which had taken place; but it was notorious that the Texians had been supplied with munitions of war of all sorts by the slave-holders of the United States. Without meaning to cast any censure upon the Government, he thought the House had a right to demand that the Secretary for Foreign Affairs do adopt strong measures to prevent the establishment of a new and more extensive market for the slave-trade than had ever before existed. The noble Lord ought immediately to open negotiations on this subject, not only with the Mexican, but with the United States Government, which latter had always professed to be anxious for the extinction of the slave-trade.

Mr. Barlow Hoy

said, that after the statement made by the noble Lord, he should not feel it necessary to press his motion; but at the same time he must observe that unless some step were speedily taken to prevent it, there would be established in Texas a state, of which the governors would be man-retailers, and the main body of the population slaves.

Colonel Thompson

thought, that the political importance of the subject had been a good deal lost sight of in the stress which was laid upon the question of the slave trade.

Dr. Lushington

remarked, that so long as Texas remained a part of the Mexican empire, and as long as Great Britain did not acknowledge its independence, so long the Government of this country had a perfect right to enforce all the treaties at present binding on Mexico, against Texas. Supposing Texas to become independent, it would then be in the power of Great Britain to acknowledge its independence or not, at such a period and on such terms as to Great Britain might seem right and proper; and he apprehended that the Government of Great Britain would be slow, indeed, to recognise the independence of such a state, unless accompanied by a declaration that it would desist altogether from any encouragement or prosecution of the slave trade. If, on the other hand, the province of Texas should attach itself to the United States of North America, then, of course, it would immediately become subject to all the treaties which existed between this country and the Government of the United States for the prevention of the slave trade.

Dr. Bowring

doubted whether the subsisting treaties between this country and the United States would be of sufficient force to put down the slave trade in Texas, supposing that province to attach itself to the federal union.

Motion withdrawn.