Mr. C. W. Wynn, in rising to move for the appointment of a Select Committee "to consider how far it may be expedient to relax the exercise of the privileges of this 479 House, respecting the imposition of pecuniary penalties for offences," said it was not his intention to occupy the time of the House. There was no one of its privileges, which he considered should be held more dear, or one which they owed it to their constituents to maintain more inviolably, than that of reserving to themselves the right of originating any change or alteration of money clauses of bills, which was among the most ancient privileges of the House, and one which he should be sorry in any degree to surrender. At the same time, however, it could not be concealed that, the assertion of that privilege had, in some instances, been carried to an extreme, and especially as regarded the imposition of fines meant as a punishment. The consequence had been, that no bill for the regulation of the criminal law could be originated in the other House of Parliament. This was extremely inconvenient; for the time of that House was so much occupied with Government measures, and other bills of the utmost importance, that it had not time to consider the alterations in our criminal laws which it might be wise to adopt. The House of Lords, on the other hand, adjourned at a very early hour every day, because it had no business before it. The object of his Motion, therefore, was, to ascertain by a Committee, if so much of that privilege might be relaxed, as would enable the other House of Parliament to originate, or to alter and amend any criminal laws. It was, however, a matter of too much importance to be decided upon hastily, and without due consideration. Instead, therefore, of bringing forward a direct motion on the subject, he had preferred to move for the appointment of a Select Committee to consider of the propriety of abating that privilege.
Mr. Hughes Hugheshoped, the right hon. Gentleman would pardon him for saying, that the terms in which his notice was couched, so inadequately conveyed an idea of what he intended to propose, that hon. Members around him, like himself, were entirely ignorant of the object contemplated by the right hon. Gentleman. In his opinion, there were few bills which might not properly originate in the other House of Parliament; any clauses by which penalties would be imposed, might be left for insertion when the bills came down to that House; a course which had been adopted in the bill relating to the building of churches.
§ Mr. Spring Ricewas of opinion, that if any one system could be more defective than another, it was that of introducing a measure in one place, and leaving something else to be added to it in another. With respect to the Motion, he would only observe, that the House ought not to hold out on a matter of form where the public good might require that that form should be abandoned.
Mr. Stuart Wortleydid not oppose the present Motion; but he wished to observe, that the House of Lords had already the power of originating criminal laws, leaving the penalty clauses to be added by this House.
Mr. C. W. Wynnsaid, the originating of bills in the other House, and leaving them to be completed in that, was a very inconvenient and a very improper course. Under these circumstances, he trusted that his Motion would be agreed to as it stood.
Mr. Humewished to see the Motion so worded, as at once to direct the attention of every hon. Member to its real object.
§ The Speakerstated, that the Motion appeared to him perfectly intelligible. He knew of no privilege possessed by the House, with respect to the imposition of penalties, except that which excluded the House of Lords from any participation in originating them.
§ Motion agreed to, and Committee appointed.