HC Deb 09 March 1831 vol 3 cc249-55

Mr. Phillpotts, on presenting a Petition from Gloucester, in favour of the Reform Bill, said, he rose with great pleasure to present the petition, which was numerously and respectably signed by the Inhabitants of Gloucester and its vicinity in favour of the Bill moved for by the noble Lord the Paymaster of the Forces, for the Reform of the Representation of the Commons. The petitioners expressed their conviction that this measure would he attended with the most salutary effects, as affording a full, free, and efficient Reform in the Representation of the People. The hon. Gentleman added, that he cordially agreed with the petitioners, and trusted that in a very short time the country would have the satisfaction of seeing this most important Bill placed as a legislative enactment on the Records of Parliament. He congratulated the country on the feelings so universally evinced in favour of the measure, from which he anticipated the most salutary effects. In the city of Gloucester, he said, one general sentiment prevailed—party feeling was absorbed in the anxiety to promote this most salutary object; and though some hon. Members had suggested that the measure proposed would be deemed an interference with the rights of Corporations, he assured the House, that the Corporation of Gloucester were not only most favourable to the measure, but had petitioned for an extension of the elective franchise, even before the noble Lord had opened the plan proposed. He again expressed his full approbation of the measure, and his anxious wish that it would soon receive the sanction of Parliament.—

The petition to be printed.

Mr. Hunt

presented a Petition for Annual Parliaments, Universal Suffrage, and Vote by Ballot, from Stockport. The hon. Member said, that it had been agreed to at a meeting held before the measure of the noble Lord had been brought in. Since it had been introduced, another meeting-had been held, at which the new plan of Reform had been universally approved of, and received with the utmost thankfulness. The public feeling on the subject was greatly excited—the country seemed absolutely running wild. In the parish of Christchurch also, a meeting had formerly been held for Radical Reform, but to-day, at a similar meeting, it had been agreed that the plan of Ministers ought to meet with universal support. The hon. Member also presented a Petition, with the same prayer, from the Parish of Lambeth. These individuals also had formerly prayed for Radical Reform; but yesterday they had again met, and passed Resolutions, that they were perfectly satisfied with the measure before the House, accepting it gratefully and cheerfully, trusting to the magnanimity of the House hereafter to give them the protection of the Vote by Ballot/

Mr. Benett

presented a Petition from the Inhabitants of Calne. The whole Corporation had signed the petition, which expressed the delight with which the petitioners hailed the measure which his Majesty's Ministers had proposed to the House, and which they, the petitioners, looked upon as affording the only effectual means by which the country could be saved from anarchy and confusion. Mr. Benett added, that the noble Marquis who had been so often alluded to in the course of the Debate, as the patron of that borough, was as willing as any man in the House or in the country that it should be thrown open.

Lord George Lennox

presented a similar Petition from the Town of Chichester, signed by the whole of the Corpora- tion, and by 400 other Inhabitants. The petitioners expressed their gratitude to the Administration for having nobly redeemed the pledges which they had given upon accepting office; and they hoped that the Ministers would firmly persevere in carrying their measure into effect, and not disappoint the reasonable expectations of the country, by yielding to the opponents of Reform. The noble Lord stated, that the petition had been but a few hours exposed for signature.

Mr. Kemp

supported the petition, and said, that he had recently presented a petition from his constituents in the town of Lewes, in which they declared, that no Reform would be satisfactory unless it comprehended an extension of the franchise, a short duration of Parliaments, and voting by Ballot at Elections. But he had that morning received a communication from them, with a request that he would take an opportunity of making it known to the House, that they were grateful to the Ministry for the measure of Reform which they had proposed, and with which they believed that the country was unanimously satisfied.

Mr. John Smith

supported the petition, and bore testimony to the respectability of the signatures. He was confident that the whole of the inhabitants of Sussex were in favour of the measure, and he believed that in a few days the Table of the House would be covered with petitions expressing that opinion.

Petition to be printed.

Captain Bouverie

presented a Petition from the City of Salisbury, praying the House that the Bill brought forward by his Majesty's Ministers, for reforming the Representation might be passed into a law. The petition was signed not only by those inhabitants of Salisbury who would be directly benefitted by the measure, but also by a majority of the Corporation.

Mr. Benett

supported the petition.

Mr. Hunt

said, that he had known the place almost from his birth, and thought the corporation of Salisbury very like other corporations. He never knew an instance in which it had refused, somehow or other, tp return some member of a noble family that resided near it. He did not, however, mean to say, that this was by corrupt influence; and he was glad to see that the corporation was coming to, and, with other corporations, approved of the plan of his Majesty's Ministers.

Colonel Trench

complained of the tone of menace which pervaded, not only the Salisbury and other petitions, but also the speeches delivered both in the House and at public meetings, by the advocates of the noble Lord's measure. He did not know whether the tone of this petition were taken from the speeches of his Majesty's Ministers, or those of the hon. Gentleman who had just spoken; but it fully justified what had been said respecting intimidation. He would take that opportunity of quoting some passages of speeches, spoken within a few days, bearing directly upon the privileges of this House. It was not his intention to found any motion upon the remarks he was about to make; but they would shew the House the spirit in which this subject was discussed. At a meeting in a city parish, a Mr. Hill, a lawyer, said, "There is in the House of Commons an audacious opposition, formed of those who forget every consideration but that of their own interest—of those who resist all Reform, till it comes in the shape of revolution." Mr. Tooke, a solicitor, afterwards said, "He, for one, had no hesitation in saying, that the enemies of it were those men, against whom the voice of that meeting, and, if necessary, their arms should be raised." Within this half hour he had ascertained the accuracy of the reports from which he quoted. Here was another passage from Mr. Hill's speech. Speaking of the oligarchy, he said—"We might depend upon it, that no arguments addressed to their experience, no undeniable facts, no claims upon them as gentlemen—as men of rank and fortune—nothing that was placed before them as Christians and members of a civil community, would have any effect upon them, or make them give up that power which they had so long and shamefully exercised over the people." These were expressions sufficient to justify the opinion, that the Gentlemen who were anxious to carry this measure employed means for that purpose which ought to inspire every Englishman with determination to resist their menaces, and decide the question on reason and conviction alone. He was sorry that the noble Lord (Althorp), for whose talents and integrity he entertained a great respect, was so far misled, as, in his first step in office, to sanction a procession positively against the law. If he did not know him too well, he should have imagined that his object was, to, cast a slur on those who had gone before him, as persons unwilling to permit the exhibition of the sentiments of the people of the metropolis. He meant, however, in spite of threats, honestly to do his duty, and he hoped that other Gentlemen would not be bullied out of their proper political course.

Mr. Littleton

deprecated the use of menacing language, especially by the supporters of the Ministers' Reform Bill, because any violence on their part furnished the opponents of the measure with a plausible topic upon which to declaim against Reform. On the part of his constituents, he was also bound to protest against the insulting language which had been used towards the advocates of the plan of Reform which had been submitted to the House. He denied that his constituents, in petitioning in favour of that measure, entertained revolutionary designs. He thought that Gentlemen opposite ought to be more measured in their own language before they took others to task for want of moderation.

Sir G. Clerk

disclaimed any intention on the part of those who had applied the term revolutionary to the Bill proposed by the Administration, to offend or insult any class of the hon. Gentleman's constituents, or any other petitioners. But they who, with him, opposed the measure, believed that, whatever might be the opinion of its advocates, it tended to revolution. He would beg leave to remind the hon. member for Staffordshire of one of the last speeches of Mr. Huskisson, whose authority he was sure would have some weight with him, which would convince him, that the proposed measure was one, not of repair and restoration, but of total alteration.

Mr. Beaumont

denied, that the measure proposed to the House by his Majesty's Ministers had any tendency to revolution, —that is, to the removal of any one of the three branches of the Legislature. Not-withstanding all that he had heard on the subject, he still believed, that it could no more be urged, that if they reformed the House of Commons this year, they would be called on next year to abolish the House of Lords, than that a man would next year pull down his neighbour's house, because he this year repaired his own. Far from agreeing with the hon. Baronet, that there was danger of revolution in extending the franchise amongst the middle classes, he was of opinion, that the only means of preventing resolution was, to unite the middle orders to the higher, so as to resist the more effectually the encroachments of the lower.

Mr. Kennedy

said, that he had, within the last few days, received a communication from Scotland, which enabled him to state, that the opinions of the people of that country were by no means so opposed or so indifferent to Reform, as in that House they had been represented to be. He could assert, that the people of Scotland were unanimous in favour of the proposed Reform. He was sure, therefore, the opposition to it in that House would have no other effect than to lead to such an expression of the opinions pf the people as would carry conviction to the minds of those who doubted their wish respecting that wise, just, and effectual measure.

Mr. Littleton

said, that as the hon. Baronet opposite (Sir G. Clerk) had referred him to the opinion of the late Mr. Huskisson, he was very happy to have that opportunity of stating, that in the last conversation which he had the honour to hold with that lamented Statesman, he had admitted, that the time had come when Reform could no longer be delayed; at least, as regarded the Representation of Scotland. He was sure that some of Mr. Huskisson's more intimate political friends could testify that such were the opinions which that wise and experienced Statesman held for sometime, and that, if he had lived, he would now, most probably, be found supporting his Majesty's Government in the measure which they had introduced. At the same time, he felt bound to protest against the quotation of the opinions of deceased Statesmen to influence the judgment of the House.

Sir Charles Wetherell

was not sp intimate with the late Mr. Huskisson as the hon. Member who had just sat down. He only knew Mr. Huskisson's opinion on the subject of Parliamentary Reform from his speeches in that House. An hon. and gallant Admiral (Sir Joseph Yorke) had talked of capsizing the Constitution, and all he should say, with respect to Mr. Huskisson, was, that unless he wished to capsize all the speeches and all the principles of his life, had he lived, he must have opposed the measure now before the House. The noble Lord, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, had speculated upon the possibility of Mr. Canning also apostatizing from himself, and becoming an immoderate Reformer. Mr. Canning might have be- come so, but it was only by eating up every word he had ever spoken, and contradicting all his own acts. The political friends of Mr. Canning and Mr. Huskisson were at liberty to solve the problem as they pleased. He would solve it as he pleased; and he never would consent to do such an injustice to the memory of those Statesmen as to suppose that they would apostatize from themselves and from their principles.

Sir George Clerk

did not doubt that Mr. Huskisson might have been a friend to moderate Reform; but notwithstanding what had been said by the hon. member for Staffordshire, comparing Mr. Huskisson to "a helmsman," he could never believe that that right hon. Gentleman would support the injudicious officers and unskilful crew, who, like the hon. Members opposite, were preparing, by way of stopping a leak, to swamp the vessel.

Mr. Long Wellesley

did not think it discreditable to any Statesman, or any other public man, to change his views on particular questions as circumstances altered. There was a passage in one of Mr. Pitt's speeches to this effect:— "The person who is a slave for fifty years to the same opinion, must be a slave to the most idle vanity." He (Mr. Long Wellesley) did not hesitate to avow that he was a proselyte to the cause of Reform, in consequence of the altered state of circumstances.

Mr. Alderman Waithman

did not think it was of any consequence what opinion Mr. Canning or Mr. Huskisson would probably have formed on this measure. It was a measure of necessity, called for by circumstances, and recommended by the concurrent voice of the public in its favour. The inhabitants of the City of London were nearly unanimous in support of the measure, and many persons who had always been his decided opponents, because he was a Reformer, had now signed a petition in favour of the proposed measure, which he should shortly have the honour to present to the House. He was too humble an individual to think his own opinion of much consequence, but, as so many of the Members for the close boroughs had been heard against the measure, those who represented large cities and counties ought to raise their voices in its favour.

Petition to be printed.