§ On the Motion for 189,803l. 19s. for defraying the charge of the Yeomanry and Volunteer Corps for Great Britain and Ireland,
Mr. O'Connellobserved, that the present Government had involved itself in an error in reviving the Yeomanry Corps in Ireland. The Yeomanry was kept on foot for party purposes. After the peace they were no longer necessary; but the distribution that was made of them showed that the purposes for which they were kept up were those of party. Thus, in the small county of Fermanagh, with only a population of 130,000, there were 2,000 Yeomanry; while in all Munster, with a population of 1,900,000, there was only about an equal number, or 2,000. He had, on a former occasion, objected to the continuance of this force, and had received, not a pledge indeed, but an understanding from the Government, that it should be gradually discontinued. If the Administration had not been changed, that understanding would, he believed, have been adhered to; but the new Government thought that it would be a good force, he supposed, to put down a popular cause; and that it would strengthen the Government. That was a great mistake. Never was there a greater mistake, for it was invariably found, that where a Yeomanry force was kept up, it was also necessary to keep up a considerable force of the King's regular troops, to keep down the effects of that excitement which the Yeomanry Corps never failed to produce. If it was necessary to have a military force in any particular district, let it be of the regular troops, for they did their duty, and nothing more.—Indeed it was a matter of surprise that men of the rank in life of the private soldier should be found to conduct themselves with so much prudence, discretion, and forbearance, as the regular troops were found to do in Ireland, often under the most trying circumstances. This praise belonged exclusively to the regular troops, from the highest to the lowest rank. This was the general feeling in Ireland with respect to them; but a feeling the very reverse prevailed with respect to the Yeomanry force. Another objectionable force kept up in Ireland, 389 was that of the Police—a force armed with deadly weapons, which they were reckless in using on very slight occasions. It appeared from Returns which he had had laid on the Table, that four times more men fell by the hand of the police than by the hand of the executioner. Thus four times more men were shot to punish riots, than to punish all other crimes. The land was red with blood spilled by the police. Let them look to the case of Castle Pollard; there ten men, women, and children were slaughtered, because, as the police said, they were assailed by stones on going to their barrack; but it was stated by the nephew of the Earl of Fingal, Mr. Dease, that the police were animated by party feeling. To this Police the Yeomanry were only a supplementary force. He supposed that one reason for keeping up the Yeomanry was, that it was considered that this force was opposed to the Repeal of the Union; which was not necessarily the case. The consequence was now evident. That at Newtown-Barry their want of discipline had caused the shedding of blood, there could be no doubt. He had seen the letter of a Magistrate who had sat on the investigation, which placed it beyond a doubt, that among this body there was a readiness to shed blood, and a want of discipline. On this ground, therefore, he contended, that the Yeomanry was the most objectionable force that could possibly he kept up, and the Government ought on no account to encourage the formation of Yeomanry corps. For proof of the party spirit of the Yeomanry, and their readiness to shed blood, he need not go beyond the fact, that for many years there, a 1st or a 12th of July had not passed without the loss of two or three lives by their hands. He contended, that if the most malicious ingenuity were to exert itself to devise measures to keep Ireland in a state of excitement, of dissatisfaction, and discontent, it could not devise more effectual means than that of keeping up this kind of force. Me was far from imputing such an intention to the present Government, but it was ignorant of the real nature of this force and of its effects in keeping up agitation. Ireland had many grievances to complain of, but nothing could so much provoke irritation as keeping up the Yeomanry corps, and he would divide against this vote. Three out of four of the districts of Ireland were unanimous against it. He 390 called on the Irish Members to remember that they were bound to their constituency to stand by him in resisting this vote. There was not one Member who had a liberal constituency who was not pledged to resist it. The people recollected that force as connected with the civil war which had been superinduced to extinguish the Irish Legislature. Some efforts, he knew, had been made by the Lord Lieutenant to form these corps both of Catholics and Protestants, but they had not succeeded. The feelings of the country were against these corps, and respectable men would not join them. One party, then, was armed against the other—the armed party grew insolent—insolence led to scuffles, and scuffles ended in death. If the Government wanted to increase the force—friend as he was of economy, he would readily assent to any increase the Government might think necessary of the King's troops. He could not tell the House with what disgust and abhorrence, exciting to resistance, the Yeomanry corps were held in by the people of Ireland. He was aware that attempts had been made by the Irish Government to infuse a better spirit into those corps, and to cause a mixture of all parties to enter into them, but he also knew with what little success; and the right hon. Baronet, (Sir H. Parnell), who knew Ireland well, could bear him out in the statement, that throughout Ireland, nineteen out of twenty of those corps were composed of men of the most violent party feelings, and be- longing to that party which was most obnoxious to the general feeling of the country. It was dangerous to put arms into the hands of such men. He was a friend to economy, but it was no economy to keep up such a corps. It was a mistake to suppose, that the Yeomanry in Ireland was composed of men of the middle classes, and in comparatively easy circumstances. The privates for the greater part, and the officers, for the most part, were men, to whom full permanent duty and full pay were an object.—[Two or three hon. Members here said "No, no."] He did not speak of the Yeomanry in that part of Ireland (the North) to which the three hon. Members belonged; he spoke of the provinces of Munster, Leinster, and Connaught, which he presumed he knew much better than the hon. Members who cried out "No;" and he repeated, that to corps so composed, the tranquillity of 391 the country could not be so much an object as any state of things which could give them employment. In his own county, a captain of Yeomanry had lately taken the benefit of the Insolvent Act, yet he had still his company. Would not the pay be an object to such a man? Such men would be on the look out for permanent duty, or, as the sailors would say, "would look out for squalls." By the discontent of the country they would get full pay—by its quietness they would get nothing, but go on till some of them got white-washed again. Having these strong objections to this force, he would now move as an amendment, that the vote be reduced by the sum of 19,290l., which was the sum voted for the Irish Yeomanry force. He would not touch the English force, as he was not acquainted with it. He would leave that to the English Members themselves. The hon. and learned Gentleman concluded by moving, that instead of 189,803l., 170,512l. be substituted.
Mr. Stanleysaid, that the hon. and learned Gentleman had entered more generally into the state of Ireland than was called for by the vote, which was usually passed on such occasions, for the Yeomanry force. In one respect he had only done justice to the Government of Ireland, in stating, that it had done every thing in its power to prevent the Yeomanry force from becoming a party force. If it had not succeeded to the extent it could wish, it was not the fault of the Government; but even that furnished no argument against the employment of that force under the circumstances which had induced the Government to call it out. He (Mr. Stanley) did not know with what taste or judgment the hon. and learned Gentleman had called upon the Members for places where, as he said, free election existed, to support him on this occasion, seeing that he himself confessed that he was unacquainted with the constitution of the Yeomanry in that fourth province of Ireland, in which five-sixths of this force was employed. It was true, that party feeling did exist amongst some of the corps, but Government could not prevent that, though it had done every thing in its power to neutralize it. In one remark of the hon. and learned Gentleman he fully concurred—that which related to the conduct of the King's troops, which, under every circumstance, was most exemplary, 392 and indeed beyond all praise. From the General to the Private the conduct of the troops employed in the disturbed districts of Clare and the county Galway was under circumstances the most painful—that of repressing disturbance by the shedding of blood—marked by the greatest forbearance, and by every trait which must be approved by the lovers of order. But, concurring with the hon. and learned Gentleman in this, as every man must do, he could not agree with the hon. and learned Gentleman, that it would be expedient to provide such an army for Ireland as would meet all exigencies, without having recourse to some subsidiary force. He could not approve of that want of delicacy—he had almost said of the want of feeling of honesty—in the hon. and learned Gentleman, which made him bring before the House, and expose to the passions of the House— not to their judgment—two unfortunate affairs which the Police and the Yeomanry had had with the multitude. In one case there were twenty-one persons awaiting a verdict that might consign them to death. In the other, the Coroner's Inquest was yet sitting on the bodies. He had seen an account in one of the newspapers—he could not vouch for its accuracy—that a jury of six Catholics and six Protestants had brought in a verdict of justifiable homicide. [Mr. O'Connell intimated, that this could not be correct: no verdict had been given.] Well, even under that supposition, there was the more reason for not alluding, in a manner calculated to excite the popular prejudices, to a case which was yet to come before the tribunals of the country. He regretted that the hon. Gentleman had mixed up the Castle Pollard case on this occasion so as to throw odium on the two forces—the Police and the Yeomanry employed there. With respect to the Police force in Ireland, he would say, that a more patient or more temperate body of men could not be found, and it was most unfair to mix them up on this occasion with all the tumults of Ireland, so as to expose them to the passions of the people. The hon. Member said, that the Yeomen were supplementary to the Police in the Newtown barry business; but the fact was, the two bodies had found it necessary to unite to resist the organized attack of persons whose worst passions had been excited by other causes. When the hon. and learned Gentleman talked of calling out the 393 Yeomanry, let him (Mr. Stanley) remind him of the condition of Ireland when they were called out in the last winter; and even if the Yeomanry had a larger share of party feeling, he would ask, whether there was any other way of saving Ireland at the time, without an immense and inconvenient addition to the regular military force? If the Government had not called out that body which were organized and ready to act—a body of men who were known to be loyal and devoted to the Constitution,—he did not say that there were not loyal men of all parties—but looking at the state of Ireland at that time, at the excitement created, and the attempt made to keep it up, he would assert, that if Government had not availed itself of the assistance of a large body of men ready and willing to give their services, and on whom Government could rely for the preservation of peace, it would have been wanting in its duty to its country, and its God; and he would contend, that the calling out of the Yeomanry on that occasion had prevented the greatest mischiefs. He knew it was difficult for Government to have such a force without party feeling; but knowing also how soon advantage was taken of a word or an act on either side, the Government saw that the best way was to steer clear of both parties—not to be led away by a claim of exclusive loyalty on one hand, or be induced by a cry to put down the whole Protestant population for the acts of a few of their body. He contended, then, looking at the circumstances under which the Yeomanry were called out last Christmas, and as that was a force on which the Government might rely for its general disposition to uphold the laws, whatever might be said of its discretion, it would be most injudicious and unwise economy to get rid of them now, by withdrawing the usual vote. He was, therefore, ready to take the sense of the Committee on the vote.
Mr. O'Connellsaid, he had no wish to embarrass the Government, and if an expectation were held out that this force would not be continued after a time, he would withdraw his amendment. The hon. and learned Gentleman repeated his former objections, that the Yeomanry were a source of weakness and not of strength to the Government, and on that ground he opposed them.
§ Lord Althorpadmitted, that the question 394 was one of great difficulty, as he knew no subject connected with the state of Ireland which had excited more discussion. At the same time, after the services which the Yeomanry had rendered when called out last Christmas, when Ireland was in a condition which called for the aid of such a force, he did not see how the usual vote could now be refused. The hon. Gentleman had called for a pledge to have the force given up. [Mr. O'Connell said, than "an expectation held out was all he required."] He considered that on the part of a Government very like a pledge, and he was not disposed to give it, though he saw no probability of the force being increased. The use of such a force was, he admitted, only a choice of evils; but it was an alternative forced on Government by the circumstances of the country. Of the police in Ireland it was in vain for the hon. and learned Member to speak, as not rendered necessary by the condition of the country; and the same condition rendered the assistance of the Yeomanry almost indispensable in keeping the peace. It was impossible, as things now stood, that we could keep a sufficient body of the King's troops in Ireland to effect all these objects; and, however much he might be disposed to admit the validity of the objections to the continuance of a Yeomanry force, he could not, after what had now been said, give any such pledge as that demanded, nor consent immediately, after having called on the Yeomanry for that assistance which was given so promptly and seasonably, to take that opportunity to put them down.
§ Mr. Stricklandhoped the hon. and learned Gentleman would not persevere. He was sorry to hear the appeal made to the Irish Gentlemen, because he would not give way to any Irish Gentleman in regret for the unfortunate events which had occurred in that country. The present Government seemed, however, to be disposed to rule Ireland with so much mildness, and to apply such lenient measures for the purpose of suppressing discontent, and putting an end to the bitterness of party spirit, that he, for one, could not at present consent to embarrass their movements, by assenting to the hon. Member's Motion. At any future period he would gladly vote for the reduction of the Yeomanry; but at this moment, he hoped the hon. Member would not persevere in his Motion.
Mr. O'Connellexpressed his assent to this recommendation; but he wished to know if any increase of the Yeomanry in Ireland was in contemplation; or if any other vote than the present would be proposed for Ireland?
Mr. Stanleyhad no hesitation in saying, that there was not any intention to increase the number of the Yeomanry of Ireland. As to any further sums of money being required, he supposed the hon. Member referred to a vote which was applied to the clothing of the Yeomanry. He could not pledge himself with certainty that no further sum would be required for that purpose during the year. He believed not, however; and certainly no other would be applied for at present.
Colonel Percevaldefended the conduct of the Yeomanry of Ireland, who were, in his opinion, entitled to the praise of having preserved the peace of the kingdom. On a late occasion, the mere threat of calling them out into active service, had the effect of suppressing the spirit of disaffection which prevailed throughout that country. The hon. member for Kerry had appealed to the Irish Members on the present occasion, and warned them, that if they did not support him, their constituents would remember it. He regretted much, that the hon. Member had recourse to an expedient of that kind; and he was confident, if the respectable and thinking portion of the constituency of Ireland were left to themselves, that no Irish Member would have reason to regret having honestly spoken his opinion, and conscientiously given his vote on the questions which were agitated in that House.
Colonel Evansdid not approve of the Yeomanry as a military force, yet thought that Ireland was not in a condition to have them altogether and suddenly suppressed. He was of opinion, however, that it would be much more economical to employ the regular army in preserving the peace of that country, and to diminish the Yeomanry corps as speedily and as extensively as they could, without giving offence.
Mr. Connollydefended the conduct of the Yeomanry and Police, and observed, that in all the experience he had of their conduct, and it was considerable, they had acted with the greatest temperance and discretion. In Dublin, during a period of extraordinary excitement, the Yeomanry had preserved the peace without any additional force, and he knew with certainty, 396 that it and the police had been very efficient in maintaining obedience to the laws. The country must have regular troops in considerable numbers for the preservation of peace, if they had no police or Yeomanry; and, in his opinion, the latter force was much more efficient for that purpose.
§ Mr. Anthony Lefroyreminded the House, that there were only two cases within a very long period in which there could be founded the slightest charge against the conduct of the Yeomanry. These were the affairs of Castlepollard and New-townbarry; and he must say, that he agreed with the right hon. Secretary for Ireland, in thinking that it was very bad taste on the part of the hon. member for Kerry to allude to them as he had done on the present occasion, when the acts attributed to the police and Yeomanry were not authenticated by evidence before any regular tribunal.
An Hon. Membersaid, there were, he understood, 23,000 Yeomanry in the north of Ireland, and 2,000 in Munster. Now he should be glad to know where they were to find regular troops to supply their place if the Yeomanry were disbanded?
Mr. O'Counellsaid, the whole Yeomanry force was 21,000, and he could not comprehend how there were 23,000 in the north of Ireland alone. He would not, however, enter into the subject further, and after the observations which had fallen from the hon. member for Yorkshire, he would withdraw his amendment.
Mr. Humesaid, they had hitherto been on the subject of the Irish Yeomanry: he now wished to draw their attention to the English. What need was there in this country for a large Yeomanry force kept up at a great expense? How much better would it not be to have a Burgher Guard? He repeated it—a Burgher Guard that would serve without pay, instead of Yeomanry corps which would cost the country 170,000l. for their pay and expenses. [No.] He said, yes. There it was on the Estimates, and let any one who understood figures look at it, and say no if they could. He thought, that it would be much better even to employ the regular army to preserve the peace of the country. They had much more temper and firmness, and he did not see Why that army had been increased unless it was to 397 employ them in such service. He would not embarrass the Government by opposing the vote, but he hoped it would be the last required for the same purpose.
The Marquis of Chandossaid, he could not allow the vote to pass without protesting against the language used by the hon. Member respecting the Yeomanry of England. He thought that they were the most useful, as well as the most constitutional force, the Government could employ, and he believed, that but for their exertions in the course of the last autumn, the country would not have been in that state of peace and prosperity in which it was at present. He had the honour to command a troop of Yeomanry in his own county. He could bear testimony to their efficiency in all cases where their services were required, and he knew they received no remuneration whatever for their services.
Mr. Humecould only say, in reply to the noble Marquis, that when he last moved for a return of the sum expended on Yeomanry corps, he found that the noble Marquis and his troop had a part of it.
§ Mr. Huntdiffered from the noble Marquis as to the efficiency of the Yeomanry. On a recent occasion, in Wales, it was well known that one-half of a troop which came to put down a riot, was disarmed by the mob, and that the other half ran away. He said this without meaning any personal offence. He knew none of the officers; but there was no doubt that the corps had been of no service there, and he believed they would, from other reasons, be of no service elsewhere. Did the Government know, that in the counties of Kent and Sussex the labourers had threatened, if the Irish were permitted as usual to come and take the bread out of their mouths, that they would set fire to the corn-fields, and to the hops, as well as the hay? He stated what was well known, and had been published in the newspapers. Now what would the employers of these labourers do, if they were called on to act as Yeomanry? Why their property would be immediately marked for destruction, if they ventured to act against the mob. He repeated, therefore, that as a force to preserve the peace, the Yeomanry was useless. He knew, too, that a great number of the members of the Yeomanry corps were in the habit of getting butcher boys and bakers, and anybody, to ride their horses as yeomen, 398 in order to save the horse-tax for the horses they employed in their business. He knew a surgeon at Taunton, who was pointed out to him as having employed two butchers' boys to ride his horses in a Yeomanry corps, in order that he might save the horse-tax. He stated nothing but what he could prove. He knew something of Yeomanry corps of old. He had been present when whole troops ran away. This was during the war, and he repeated, he thought they were the worst kind of force that could be employed to preserve the peace of the country.
§ Lord Althorphad no connection with any Volunteer or Yeomanry corps, but he had seen a good deal of them in the course of his life, and he must say, he believed the description given of them by the member for Preston to be incorrect. In the late riots in Wiltshire, it was well known, and acknowledged by all, that the Yeomanry had rendered the greatest service in suppressing disturbances, and that to them the country was indebted for the speedy establishment of tranquillity. The Yeomanry corps, were, he was sure, chiefly composed of substantial farmers. The hon. Gentleman was also in error when he stated that incendiarism still continued; but of this, he (Lord Althorp) was sure, that should a recurrence of the disturbances of last autumn take place, the same valuable services might be expected from the Yeomanry as they performed last year.
Mr. Robert Gordonsaid, it would be a curious thing to look into the debates on every Estimate for the last fifty years, and to observe how much opinions had changed. At that time, patriots as good as the member for Middlesex, or the member for! Preston, thought that the only constitutional force was a Yeomanry or Militia, and now, it would appear, they were all for the employment of a standing army.
§ Mr. Huntread a paragraph from a Sunday paper, in which the writer stated, that he had seen a gentleman from the neighbourhood of Sittingbourne, in Kent, who assured him that the farmers were under great apprehension of the renewal of the burnings of last year. With respect to the Yeomanry, he was really at a loss to understand on what ground they were stated to be so admirable a force as some hon. Gentlemen seemed to consider them. He knew of no feats of valour performed, by the Yeomanry. Not a trigger had 399 been pulled against them. [coughing.] He was sent there by the people, and had as much right to speak there as any of the hon. Members who were troubled with so much huskiness. He thought they would do themselves more credit, as Members of Parliament and Gentlemen, if they abstained from vulgar noise. [loud coughing.] It would much better become any hon. Member to try to answer him than to endeavour to put him down in that manner.
§ Mr. Trevorsaid, that the hon. member for Preston had made out a case for the embodying of the Yeomanry, by stating that the labourers were threatening to destroy the property of their employers. The Yeomanry corps were a most efficient force, and were formed of persons who had a stake in the country, and not of apprentices and butcher-boys, as the hon. Member insinuated. He thought that the Yeomanry had been unjustly libelled by the hon. members for Preston and Middlesex.
Mr. Alderman Thompsonsaid, that although he certainly was unable to bear testimony to the good conduct of the men belonging to the Glamorganshire Yeomanry, their officers had shown the greatest zeal and courage. He attributed the misconduct of the privates to their being the relations and friends of those against whom they were called upon to act. At the same time, some allowance ought to be made for them on account of their being called out to exercise only eight days in the year. There was, however, now a proof that they were not to be relied on like disciplined troops, and he therefore certainly was of opinion, that it would be better to spend the money which it was proposed to vote for the Yeomanry on a regular force.
Mr. George Lambcould not but believe that the Yeomanry must be the best description of force to defend their own property and firesides. He agreed that the specimen of the Yeomanry to which the hon. Alderman had adverted was not a lucky one; but he must protest against condemning the general character of the Yeomanry corps, in consequence of a single exception. There were many instances of their good conduct; and especially last autumn, in Wiltshire and Dorsetshire. He should have great confidence in the 400 English Yeomanry, if any necessity were to arise for their exertions.
Mr. Pringleeulogised the character and conduct of the Yeomanry in Scotland, especially in the year 1820, when the peace of that country, which was nearly in a state of insurrection, was restored almost by the Yeomanry alone. He thought the disembodying of the Yeomanry was a most unwise measure on the part of the Ministers by whom it was adopted.
§ Mr. Spring Ricedefended the conduct of the Ministry by whom the disembodying of the Yeomanry had been carried into effect. There had been no intention to show the slightest disrespect, to that description of force; it was only felt that at that period the public service could dispense with it. The circumstances of the present time were very different.
§ Sir M. W. Ridleyreprobated the unjustifiable language used by some hon. Members with reference to the Yeomanry of England. It was a force admirably calculated to repress the tumults excited by the bad advice of those who had too much the ear of the people. To his knowledge, the whole country was highly indebted to the Yeomanry of the North of England for their recent efforts in maintaining public tranquillity. During six weeks that the Northumberland Yeomanry had been under arms, not a single instance had occurred of want of discipline, or of misconduct. The reports of the officers who had been appointed to inspect the various Yeomanry corps, afforded abundant proof of their efficiency and value.
§ Mr. Edward Petreadded his testimony to that of the hon. Baronet in favour of the conduct of the Yeomanry of Yorkshire.
§ Mr. Huntsaid, he supposed the hon. Baronet meant to give him a lecture, when he talked of advice that had been given to the people. The hon. Baronet would have been more consistent if he had stated what that advice was. He (Mr. Hunt) had never given any advice to the people which he was not prepared to justify, either there or anywhere else.
§ The Amendment withdrawn, and original Resolution agreed to.
§ On the Resolution for granting 697,800l. for Half-pay and Military Allowances for retired officers,
§ Sir Henry Hardingeexpressed his hope, that before the Appropriation Act was brought forward, the case of the Half-pay officers would be taken into consideration, 401 with a view to some amelioration of their condition. The Committee of 1828 had recommended the employment of the half-pay officers in civil occupations. He trusted this recommendation would be attended to. He knew many officers too much crippled by service for military duty, but quite competent to the discharge of a civil office. He hoped the right hon. Baronet would bring forward some plan having this object in view; if not, he would do so himself.
Mr. Humethought, that military men, after long service, became very incompetent for civil situations. Sinecures they might be competent to hold, and salaries they could receive as well as any body in the country; but to the duties of civil offices he was persuaded they were not equal. He wished to know what was the rule with respect to promotions in the army, and how the vacancies were filled up, whether from the half-pay or not?
§ Sir H. Parnellsaid, there was no fixed rule on the subject.
§ Sir Henry Hardingeobserved, that it would be difficult to fix a rule upon that subject, as the casualties of foreign service would put an end to all arrangements of that sort, and much injustice would often arise from any inflexible rule to fill up all vacancies from the half-pay list alone.
Colonel Evansthought, that half-pay officers were not as much attended to as they might be, though he did not mean to say they could always be fixed upon to fill up vacancies.
§ Vote agreed to.
§ On the motion for a grant of 1,335,986l. for Chelsea and Kilmainham Hospitals,
§ Sir Henry Hardingesaid, that he wished to call the attention of the right hon. Baronet opposite to a matter of some importance. He understood, that a great number of pensioners had made a commutation of their pensions to become colonial settlers, and that under this arrangement they had received three or four years' half-pay; but this money had not been paid to them under circumstances that would ensure their going out, on the contrary, he was informed that some of them had dissipated the money and remained in England. If that were the case, the whole of the object of the arrangement would be defeated, and many of these men would ultimately come upon their parishes for support. He understood that 700 or 800 men in Ireland were in 402 the same situation. The case, with respect to them, was still stronger than with respect to the pensioners who were Englishmen; for the latter could have recourse to their parishes, but the former would be without that support. He thought that some caution ought to be used on this matter, and that, for the protection of these soldiers, the right hon. Secretary ought to refuse to allow them to make the commutation, unless they actually went abroad, as settlers, nor to make it after they were forty-five years of age. If the new regulations were well acted upon, he was quite sure, that the Pension List might be reduced 200,000l. within the space of ten years. His chief object in making these remarks was, to prevent the character of the country being injured, for nothing was more discreditable than that its veterans should have to depend on parish bounty for support. The right hon. Baronet ought to stand between the soldier and the public for the protection of both.
§ Sir H. Parnellsaid, that no commutation had been yet agreed to but what he found commenced and in progress when he took office. New regulations were in preparation, and he assured the gallant Officer that he was quite willing to act in the character which the gallant Officer had recommended him to assume. He could assure the hon. and gallant Member, that nothing whatever had been done at the War-office on this subject which was not strictly in accordance with the memorandum drawn up while the gallant Officer was Secretary-at-War.
§ Vote agreed to.
§ On the motion that the Chairman report these Resolutions to the House,