HC Deb 18 July 1831 vol 4 cc1436-7

The next vote was for 41,000l. for Foreign and other Secret Services.

Mr. Hume

wished to know, whether this vote was for expenses already incurred at home, or for secret services abroad. The vote was rather a large amount.

Mr. Spring Rice

said, that most of this amount was for foreign services. If it was compared to the grants for former years, it would be found to be very considerably reduced. I n 1826 it was 260,000l., in 1829 it was 45,000l., and at present, 41,000l.

Mr. Hume

was surprised they could want even such a sum as that for secret services. In a time of peace, they ought to act above-board, and with clean hands.

Mr. Spring Rice

said, the vote was on account of public services, and the hon. Gentleman was in error if he supposed they wanted to do any clandestine act.

Mr. Hume

did not believe any gentleman applied the money to his own use.

Mr. C. W. Wynn

thought, sufficient confidence ought to be placed in those who had the disposal of this money, to remove any suspicion of its being applied improperly.

Mr. Hunt

could not possibly understand what occasion there was to vote this money. He could not comprehend, if people acted fairly, what they could want with it.

Mr. O'Connell

inquired, if the Irish Secret Service money had been diminished?

Mr. Spring Rice

said, that it was taken at an average. The sum was 4,300l.

Mr. O'Connell

observed, that formerly, Secret Pensions had been given out of this source, to persons connected with the Irish Press. He believed the government of the United States required no expenditure of this description for secret services.

Mr. Calley

said, he wanted to know the way in which this secret service money was disposed of?

Sir M. W. Ridley

said, hon. Gentlemen must be aware it was impossible to carry on a government without a vote of money for such purposes; and he was surprised the hon. and learned Gentleman should compare the Government of this country with that of the United States, which he believed to be as corrupt as any under the sun.

Mr. Hume

was surprised at this assertion of the hon. Baronet. Was he aware that an embezzlement of a small sum of money was considered in the United States, of sufficient importance for a State prosecution.

Sir M. W. Ridley

said, he believed what he had asserted, from information he had received.

Vote agreed to.