§ Mr. Spring Ricemoved that a sum not exceeding 8,373l. be granted to his Majesty for defraying the contingent expenses and Messenger's bills 979 for the office of the Secretary for the Home Department for the year 1831.—Agreed to.
§ The next Resolution was, that a sum not exceeding 35,155l. be granted for similar expenses in the office of Secretary for Foreign Affairs.
Mr. Humebegged to call the attention of Government to the present system of having separate Establishments of Messengers for each Department. It would be better management to have one establishment for Messsengers, who might be called upon for any Department as they might be required. They had in this vote a sum of 35,000l. for contingent expenses and Messengers' Bills in one Department.
§ Mr. Spring Ricedid not think the question so much one of economy as of arrangement. No office ought to keep more Messengers than were necessary, but having one dep6t for Messengers would not answer, as the Messenger for one Department would not be qualified in all cases for the others. He admitted the expense of Messengers in the foreign Department was very great, but from the constant communication kept up with Foreign Courts, they were necessary.
§ Mr. G. Dawsonwas surprised at such an objection from the hon. member for Middlesex, who knew so much of public business. The fact was, the former plan of a general dépât or Department for Messengers, was the practice till 1824, when, by the recommendation of a Committee, it was decided that there should be separate Messengers for each Department, which certainly was the more convenient as well as the more economical course.
Mr. Humedid not know on what grounds the Committee came to that determination, but he' thought the country paid more for Messengers than the public service required. The mode he had suggested would lessen the expense. Why should a Messenger be despatched from the Home or any other office to any part of England or Ireland when the same communication could be made by the mail with equal celerity and certainty, and much less expense? If we did not interfere with foreign Powers, we should have no occasion for constantly despatching Messengers. There was an unnecessary establishment in many public departments; and he thought many of the Messengers were more frequently employed for the private business of gentlemen, than for the public service,
§ Mr. Spring Ricehad already admitted, that no more Messengers ought to be kept up than the public service required. He was not acquainted with the details of other departments, but in that with which he was connected, he could declare no more were kept than were actually wanted. It was often found necessary to communicate immediately with parties who made application to the Treasury, and it was often necessary to do so with the utmost despatch. Some improvements might possibly be made, but the service of Messengers could not be dispensed with, or the public business would stand still.
Mr. Humedid not mean to object to reasonable expenses for Messengers in the various departments, but wished to see from each, particular accounts. He fully agreed with the necessity of despatch, but thought that arrangements could be made with the Post-office which would insure that object.
§ Vote agreed to.
§ The next vote was for a sum of 8,430l. for similar expenses in the Colonial Department.
Mr. Humewished to know what was the use of Messengers to the Colonial Department; did it ever send Messengers to the colonies? Were any sent out to Jamaica, for instance?
§ Mr. Wranghamsaid, there were other colonies besides Jamaica. He could assert from his own knowledge, that Messengers were sent to the Ionian Islands during the negotiations respecting Greece.
§ Lord Howicksaid, that the Colonial department had seldom occasions to send Messengers abroad, but that sometimes they were sent to Canada, and other parts of British North America.
§ Mr. Spring Ricesaid, there was a diminution on this item of 1,000l. since last year.
§ Vote agreed to.
§ The next vote was a sum of 2,880l., for similar expenses in the Privy Council, and the Committee of Privy Council for Ireland, was also granted.
§ Mr. Spring Ricesaid, that the next vote of 2,800l., for similar expenses in the office, of First Lord of the Treasury and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had been greatly reduced. In 1829, it was 6,500l.; in the last year, 3,800l.