HC Deb 28 February 1831 vol 2 cc1042-5
Mr. Robert Gordon

rose to ask his right hon. friend, the first Lord of the Admiralty, on what ground it was, that the Lords of the Admiralty were permitted to hold their half-pay at the moment they were receiving salaries as members of the Board? In the Army, a regulation prohibited any person holding a civil situation and receiving half-pay at the same time. He should be glad to know why this regulation did not apply to the Navy; and if it did not, why the lower grades—such as half-pay Captains and Lieutenants—were not permitted to obtain the same advantage? He also wished to know whether the salary of the Secretary of the Admiralty was or was not independent of his half-pay?

Sir James Graham, in reply, said, that the peculiar circumstances under which an officer of the army could retain his half-pay, together with the salary of a civil officer, were regulated by an express Act of Parliament; but the Navy was now, and always had been, placed on a different footing. In that service it was customary for his Majesty to regulate, by an Order in Council, the officers which were or were not to hold their half-pay with a civil allowance; and he (Sir James Graham) had thought it his duty to recommend the four Lords of the Admiralty as entitled to that indulgence. While, however, he considered that the Lords of the Admiralty were entitled to this exception, from the peculiar nature of their duties, and the smallness of their remuneration, he had, at the same time, thought, that the salary of the Secretary of the Admiralty was sufficient without such an allowance; and the House would see, from the estimates laid on the Table, that his Majesty's Government had also reduced that salary from 3,000l. to 2,500l. The salary of a Lord of the Admiralty was 1,000l. a year. If a Vice-admiral, his half-pay would be about 700l. Now the House would at once sec the hardship which a rigid adherence to the rule would inflict, when they found that a Vice-admiral might, as a Lord of the Admiralty, be compelled to attend seven hours a day for ten months in the year; and, after all, if his half-pay was taken away, the reward for the additional service would be only 300l. a year. With regard to the half-pay of Lieutenants and Captains, he could only say, that as each exception depended on its own particular merits, if any officer thought himself aggrieved by losing his half-pay when he accepted a civil situation, he could memorialize the Admiralty; and his case, if it was found deserving attention, would be laid before the Council.

Sir George Clerk

expressed himself happy to hear that this question of allowing the Lords of the Admiralty to hold their half-pay with their salary, which was so much agitated last year, had met with the concurrence of those who were then disposed to think it inexpedient.

Sir George Warrender

had always been of opinion, that it was bad policy to underpay public servants, and he was glad to find that his opinions were acknowledged by the gentlemen now in power.

Sir Henry Hardinge

said, that the principle of taking away the half-pay of an officer, when he accepted a civil situation, would, if carried into effect, be productive of great hardship both in the Army and the Navy. An hon. friend of his, the late Surveyor-general of the Ordnance, and who possessed a regiment, bestowed on him for long and tried service, would, under such circumstances, have been very hardly treated had he been compelled to resign it on accepting office.

Mr. Hunt

thought, although hon. Members were so unanimous on the subject of officers receiving those double allowances, that their opinions would be different if they had to pay for their generosity in the shape of a Property-tax, and that they would then join with the present tax-payers in voting them unnecessary. What he rose for, however, was to ask the right hon. Baronet, whether there was any truth in the report that the hon. Captain Grey was appointed to the command of a frigate, called the Actœon, several months before she was off the stocks? He begged also to ask, if this was a customary practice in the Navy.

Sir James Graham

repeated what he stated before, that the appointment of Captain Grey to the Actœon was made by Lord Melville in the month of November last, and before the present Government came into office. The Actœon was a vessel built in pursuance of the plans of Sir Robert Seppings, and he believed that Captain Grey was appointed to her at the express desire of Sir Robert Seppings, who wished this talented and deserving young officer to have the command of her; and that Lord Melville complied with that wish, from a desire to give a proof of his friendship for the noble Earl, the father of Captain Grey. Appointments of this kind were, he believed, by no means unprecedented.

Sir George Cockburn

thought it right to say, that the service was frequently benefitted, rather than injured, by appointments of this description, which furnished great facilities for the collection of the crew. The Actœon, he believed, was now ready for sea, although three months had not elapsed since the appointment took place. The Report read a second time and Resolutions agreed to, and leave given to bring in a Bill in conformity with the Resolutions.