§ On the Motion of Lord Althorp for reading the Order of the Day, that the House resolve itself into a Committee on the Reform of Parliament (England) Bill,
Mr. Jamesrose for the purpose of asking the noble Lord a question with respect to the approaching Coronation. That question was—what was the sum of money which it was the intention of his Majesty's Ministers to expend on that ceremonial? To him it appeared, that it would have been much more proper, more parliamentary, more constitutional, had Ministers, before they determined on having a Coronation, come down to the House, 1340 and asked the Representatives of the people if they chose to incur the expense of it. If he were to judge from experience, he should predict, that the outlay would greatly exceed the estimate. The estimate of the expense of the last Coronation was 100,000l.; the actual expense was 238,000l. The hiring of the jewels on that occasion cost 28,000l.; their value was estimated at 65,000l. Ten per cent per annum was the hire paid for their use. Having been kept above four years, at an annual expense of 6,500l., the cost was that which he had already stated. With respect to the intended Coronation, he saw no occasion for it whatever. On the contrary—
Sir Robert Heronspoke to order. The hon. Gentleman rose to put a question, and was making a long speech.
§ The Speakersaid, that there was a question before the House; and the hon. member for Carlisle was entitled to speak to it.
Mr. Jamesresumed his observations. He could see no necessity for a Coronation whatever; except, indeed, it were to make fifty or a hundred new Peers, for the purpose of passing the Reform Bill in another place. His Majesty was in full possession of the Throne—he had taken the oaths—no additional security could be given for the proper performance of his regal functions. In ancient times a formal compact between a king and his people was considered to be indispensable. Those times had gone by; and the proposed ceremony was altogether useless, and would be an empty spectacle. He could not believe that his present Majesty wished, or would like, such an exhibition. He was not like the late King, George 4th, whom nothing satisfied but extraordinary show and splendor. That was now a matter of history, and could not be denied. He had a high opinion of the good sense and powerful mind of his present Majesty, who had secured the love of his subjects by showing himself the friend of Constitutional Reform. His Majesty had built for himself a reputation which would never decay while there was an English heart to feel his merits, or an English tongue to praise them. He was sure that his Majesty had too much sympathy for his distressed and impoverished people to wish to put them to the expense of the projected pageant. It was, therefore, his opinion, that Ministers—and he 1341 begged not to be considered as ungrateful to them for the course which they had lately been pursuing—would have acted more wisely had they abstained from advising the Crown, in the present wretched state of the country, to incur the proposed expense. He begged to ask the noble Lord the estimated amount of the expense?
§ Lord Althorpsaid, that the hon. Gentleman was perfectly in error with reference to the course which he thought, in deference to the Constitution, his Majesty's Ministers ought to have adopted. On that point, however, he would not say anything further. The hon. Gentleman said, that the Coronation was unnecessary, for that the King had already taken the requisite oaths. That was not the case. The Act of Parliament prescribed certain oaths to be taken at the Coronation; and the fact that they were so prescribed, proved that they were considered necessary in point of law. As to the question of expense, he entirely agreed with the hon. Gentleman, that the expense of the last Coronation was extravagant, and especially with reference to the hire of jewellery. It was impossible for him to state, with anything like precision, what the expense of the approaching Coronation would be; but he had already said—what all the succeeding information which he had received on the subject warranted him in repeating—that it would not be more than a fifth of the expense of the last. He was, of course, desirous not to state the expense at a lower rate than would probably be the fact, lest disappointment might be occasioned; but he thought he might confidently declare, that it would not be more than a fifth of the expense of the last.
Mr. Jamesthought, that if the expense exceeded 100,000l., the members of Administration ought, to pay the surplus out of their own pockets. He begged to know whether there was to be any accommodation at the ceremony for Members of that House, as the Representatives of the people?
§ Mr. Gillonobserved, that very few of the Members of that House had a right to claim the title of Representatives of the people. Most of them were mere dross, instead of being pure gold. They sat there as nominees of Peers—as the Members for nomination and rotten boroughs. Instead of possessing independence, they were compelled to vote as their patrons directed them.
§ Mr. Huntwas of opinion that there was no place in England so fairly represented as that for which his hon. Colleague and himself sat. When the hon. Member spoke of the last King with dispraise, he was called to order. No such feeling was manifested when he praised the present King. He knew nothing of his Majesty but as the head of the Government. Was not the present King as much attached to the principles of the Duke of Wellington and his friends, as he professed to be, or as it was professed for him he was, to the principles of Earl Grey and his friends.
§ Sir Henry Hardingesaid, he rose in consequence of the pert and flippant observations of the hon. Member (Mr. Gillon) who preceded the member for Preston. That hon. Member had stated, that certain Members being nominees could not be independent, and did not, in fact, represent the people. Now he, as Representative for a borough which was called a nomination borough, must say, that he gave as independent a vote while sitting for that borough, as he did while he sat for the city of Durham, or as any man could do. He felt called upon to say thus much as a general remark on the absurdity of asserting that a man must cease to be independent when he sat for a nomination borough; but as far as the hon. Member's remarks were intended to apply to him (Sir H. Hardinge), he must say, that he treated them with the utmost contempt.
The Marquis of Chandoswished to know, without, however, being desirous of an immediate answer, what was the intention of his Majesty's Government with respect to the period and the length of the adjournment for the Coronation?
§ Lord Althorpsaid, that it was impossible for him at that moment to answer the—
Mr. O'Connellexpressed his hope that the Irish Reform Bill would be previously introduced.