HC Deb 23 July 1987 vol 120 cc483-6W
Ms. Richardson

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will state for each country in the European Community any provisions of any bilateral agreement with the United Kingdom on social security which are different from the general agreement with member states, setting out the circumstances when the differences could benefit people (a) with contributions in the United Kingdom scheme, (b) living in the United Kingdom, (c) who are United Kingdom citizens or (d) anyone else.

Mr. Portillo

I shall let my hon. Friend have a reply as soon as possible.

Mr. Stanbrook

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what checks are made on the authenticity of claims for supplementary benefit made by persons known to be itinerants who claim to be resident on property which they occupy as trespassers.

Mr. Portillo

Itinerant claimants, provided they satisfy the normal rules, are entitled to benefit in the same way as other people who claim benefit. They are required to prove their identity and, where necessary, to provide documentary evidence in support of their claim before benefit is paid.

Mr. Clay

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will publish an estimate using the Family Expenditure Survey 1985 of how many two-parent families with children would be on supplementary benefit level or below if the wives were not in paid work.

Mr. Scott

Since the husband might decide to increase his earnings if the wife ceased paid work, it is not possible to provide a precise estimate of how many families might then have net incomes on or below their supplementary benefit scale rates.

Mrs. Beckett

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services how many claims for supplementary benefit were made in each year since 1979 by (a) people over pension age, (b) unemployed people and (c) others; and what proportion was successful in each category.

Mr. Scott

The information requested is shown in the table.

Mr. Scott

The United Kingdom has bilateral agreements on social security with each of the other member states of the European Community (excluding Greece). The provisions of each differ in detail as necessary to take account of the characteristics of the social security schemes concerned. The principles underlying them are the same; they are also the same as those underlying the EEC regulations on social security for migrant workers.

With the accession of the United Kingdom to the European Community, the bilateral agreements now apply only to people and matters not covered by the EEC regulations. The EEC regulations apply to all employed or self-employed people who are nationals of a member state, or who are stateless persons or refugees residing in the European Community, and to their survivors or dependents.

Generally, therefore, the bilateral agreements help only people who are not workers or, in the case of the agreements with Ireland and Germany, which are not restricted to nationals of the countries concerned, those who are not EC nationals. For such people, who move from the United Kingdom to the other country, and vice versa, the agreements regulate where their contribution liability lies, provide for aggregation of both countries' insurance under specified conditions to assist title to benefit, preserve rights to benefit and, in particular, provide for pension entitlement to be unaffected. Their provisions differ from those of the EEC regulations on points of detail only.

Ms. Richardson

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will set out for each country for which he has information (a) in the European Community, (b) in the Council of Europe and (c) with which the United Kingdom has a reciprocal agreement on social security, the conditions under which they pay retirement, old age or widows' pensions to those qualifying but currently living in the United Kingdom, and showing, in particular, whether those pensions are increased by some measure of inflation in the same way as when paid in the country concerned.

Mr. Scott

For people living in the United Kingdom, who are covered by the European Community social security regulations, all EC member states award their pensions on the same terms as if the pensioners were living in the country of payment and pay them in full, including cost of living increases.

The bilateral social security conventions which the United Kingdom has with other countries—including all the member states of the Council of Europe — vary in scope. It is normal, though, for such agreements (a) to ensure that neither country operates any discrimination on nationality grounds in access to benefits and (b) to provide for award of pensions by each country to people in the other on the same basis as if the pensioner were living in the awarding country, with cost of living increases being paid as they become due.

Ms. Richardson

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will set out separately the dates since June 1979 on which his officials have met their counterparts from (a) Australia, (b) New Zealand and (c) Canada to discuss the relevant reciprocal agreement on social security; what specific aspects of the relevant agreement they discussed; when future meetings are planned; and what specific matters are on the agenda.

Mr. Scott

Since June 1979 officials from the Department have met their counterparts from Australia, Canada and New Zealand on the following dates:

Australia

  • September 1980
  • March 1981
  • April/May 1982
  • September 1983
  • September 1986

Canada

  • May 1979
  • December 1982
  • February 1983
  • August 1983

New Zealand

  • March 1981
  • November 1982

Officials meet to discuss the operation of the agreements and what changes, if any, may be needed. Details of the negotiations are confidential. In addition to the meetings listed there is regular informal contact. The only planned future meeting is with officials of the Department of Social Security, Australia, next month.

Ms. Richardson

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will set out for each other country for which he has information, apart from any country with which the United Kingdom has a reciprocal agreement on social security, the conditions under which their citizens living in the United Kingdom can be paid a retirement, old age or widow's pension.

Mr. Scott

This information, which is not readily available, could be obtained only at disproportionate cost.