§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence when the letter to him, dated 3 January, from Mr. Horne was received; when it was sent; and whether he had prior knowledge of the dispatch of the letter or its terms.
§ Mr. Norman LamontI shall answer shortly.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence who convened the meeting of the armaments directors of the United Kingdom, Germany, Italy and France in London on or around the afternoon of 29 November 1985; what proposals were discussed; and from whom each proposal originated.
§ Mr. Norman LamontThe former Secretary of State, after consultation with Dr. Woerner convened the526W meeting. The armaments directors' unanimous recommendations resulted from a review of policies pursued since 1978 in the field of helicopter collaboration.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence who convened the meeting of senior executives of Agusta, Aerospatiale and Messerschmidt-Bolkow-Blohm in London on or around 29 November 1985; what proposals were considered at the meeting; and from whom each proposal originated.
§ Mr. Norman LamontThe meeting originated in a request from Aerospatiale and MBB to my right hon. Friend, the then Secretary of State for Defence. He accepted this request just as he had previously agreed to see representatives of Sikorsky. At his suggestion Agusta were also invited to attend. After the three companies had met my right hon. Friend, and he had left for another engagement outside London, they had, I understand, a meeting with Lloyds Merchant Bank out of which their proposals emerged.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence (1) further to his letter dated 3 January to Mr. Home, whether he will publish in the Official Report full details of the indications given by the other Governments concerned in each of the three projects of their intention to withdraw from collaboration with Westland if the company decides to collaborate with Sikorsky and Fiat on the production of a helicopter;
(2) which of the Governments or firms in question took the initiative in forming the consortium which is bidding for a shareholding in Westland; and when and by whom the Government were first appraised of their intention;
(3) whether he will publish in the Official Report details of the battlefield helicopter on which the United Kingdom has been intending to proceed with a feasibility study with Italy; what provision has been made for buying this helicopter, and at what cost in the long-term United Kingdom defence expenditure plans; which of the other Governments in the consortium have expressed an interest in buying the helicopter when developed and at what cost; and what is the value of the work for Westland;
(4) whether he will publish in the Official Report particulars showing the terms on which the Government would be invited to buy the proposed European helicopter; whether and to what extent the price would include payment for the development to date of the A 129 and the PAH2; and if he will state the amount spent on the development to date;
(5) what is the policy of Her Majesty's Government towards buying arms and equipment from United Kingdom firms wholly or partly owned by United States firms; whether there has been any recent change in this policy; and if he will publish in the Official Report a list of the major United Kingdom defence contractors which are wholly or partly owned by United States firms;
(6) whether the Government are satisfied that the United Kingdom service requirement for which the new European helicopter is designed could not be met from United States sources at a competitive price; and whether the Government propose to enter into any contractual commitment which would prevent the United Kingdom buying a competitor helicopter at some future date;
(7) whether the general policy of Her Majesty's Government towards the purchase of helicopters from the proposed European consortium is based on the (2)cost-benefit 527W for the United Kingdom as well as on the strategic implications; and if he will publish in the Official Report the costs and benefits of each alternative as well as the strategic implications;
(8) which of the Governments and companies concerned have said they will take part in the NH90 helicopter development, and which have said that they will 528W withdraw, if Westland collaborates with Sikorski-Fiat; and what claims Westland or Her Majesty's Government would have under the terms of the agreement if the agreement is denounced.
§ Mr. Norman LamontI refer the hon. Member to the answers given by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister earlier today.
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§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence (1) further to his letter, dated 3 January, to Mr. Horne, whether the Italian Government or Agusta have said that in the event of a link-up between Westland and Sikorsky-Fiat they will not proceed with the full development of the 13 tonne (EH 101) helicopter launched in 1984; which other countries would be interested in replacing Westland in this bilateral arrangement; whether any United Kingdom defence procurement interest would be jeopardised; and what claims Westland or the British Government would have under the terms of the agreement against Agusta if the agreement was denounced on the Italian side;
(2) whether he will publish in the Official Report details of the 13 tonne class (EH 101) helicopter being developed by Westland and Agusta; what requirement for each of the armed services in the United Kingdom would be met by this helicopter; how many machines would be purchased by the United Kingdom and Italian Governments and at what cost; whether comparable machines are available or under development in the United States of America; whether the Agusta-Westland machine would be cheaper than a comparable United States machine; and whether the complete machine would be made in the United Kingdom independently of components made in Italy.
§ Mr. Norman LamontI will answer shortly.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence, further to his letter, dated 3 January, to Mr. Home, if he will give particulars to the 8-9 tonne helicopter (NH90) concerning which there is a memorandum of understanding; to what extent the five Governments are committed to develop this helicopter and to buy the machine when developed; what use the United Kingdom has for this helicopter; when it is expected to be in operation; how much of the development work will be in the United Kingdom; how much of the complete helicopter will be made in the United Kingdom; what is the amount of work which has been given to Westland under this project to date; and what future commitments of work have been made to Westland.
§ Mr. Norman LamontA memorandum of understanding covering the 14-month feasibility study into the NATO transport/anti-submarine helicopter for the 1990s was signed by France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and United Kingdom in September 1985. At this stage nations are only committed to take part in the feasibility study and will take a decision on whether to proceed to a further phase once the results of the feasibility study have been evaluated. The NH90 helicopter is likely to be of a size and configuration which could make it a contender to meet a United Kingdom light support helicopter requirement. Work during the feasibility study is shared on an equal basis between the five industries; no industrial plans have been made at this stage for any possible later phases.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence what is his policy towards the purchase of the improved version of the Agusta Al29 anti-tank helicopter; how this helicopter compares with the nearest equivalent produced by (a) Sikorsky and (b) any other United States company; what would be the cost in each case; how much of the improved Agusta Al29 helicopter represents United Kingdom technology; and how much would be built in the United Kingdom.
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§ Mr. Norman LamontCollaborative development of the Al29 LAB is one of the options for meeting the Army's requirement for an anti-tank helicopter for the 1990s. Although it is envisaged that the Al29 LAH would be an advanced helicopter, using the latest technology, the configuration, cost and industrial arrangements await the results and evaluation of a feasibility study. There is no equivalent helicopter currently produced by Sikorsky or any other American company, although a number of American companies are competing to develop an aircraft to meet the US service requirement for a light anti-tank helicopter to enter service in the 1990s.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence which of the three helicopter projects referred to in his letter dated 3 January to Mr. Horne would be an amalgam of the Al29 and P.AH2 helicopters.
§ Mr. Norman LamontThe five-nation collaborative battlefield helicopter.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence whether he will publish for each of the three proposed collaborative helicopter projects referred to in his letter to Mr. Horne of 3 January the location of the relevant manufacturing plants.
§ Mr. Norman LamontThe location of the principal plants of the companies participating in the NH90 project, which involves the largest number of countries in a European helicopter programme, is as follows:
- France
- Germany
- Italy
- United Kingdom
- Netherlands
- Marseilles
- Munich
- Milan
- Yeovil
- Amsterdam
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence how much he estimates will be saved in the defence budget if Westland joins the proposed European consortium to produce a battle helicopter; and if he will publish the Official Report the basis on which the calculation was made.
§ Mr. Norman LamontI refer the hon. Member to the answers I have given today to a question from the hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Ashdown).
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence (1) whether, in considering the proposals for joint development of a battle helicopter, the Government took into account the effect of this on the design capability of Westland Helicopters; and if he will make a statement showing the extent to which the proposed new helicopter relies on design work already done on the Al29 and the PAH2 together with the Government's estimate of the share of the design work, including work already done, which will accrue to Westland;
(2) what part Westland has played in developing the Al29 and PAH2 helicopters; and what share Westland would get in designing the new helicopter if they agree to join the European consortium;
(3) how many man hours of work have already been done on the design and development of the helicopter which is to be built by a European consortium, and in 531W which countries; how many more hours need to be done and how much would be done in the United Kingdom if Westland agreed to take part; and where the preproduction models would be built;
(4) what military characteristics are lacking in the Al29 and PAH2 helicopters which will not be lacking in the proposed consortium helicopter; when the new helicopter will be available for battlefield use and how this compares with delivery dates for the Al29 and PAH2, respectively; and whether the characteristics required can be found in a helicopter being built or developed in the United States of America;
(5) whether the European consortium has undertaken to supply a battle helicopter within a given price range regardless of cost; who will bear the development costs; and what information he has as to the price for a comparable United States helicopter;
(6) who is to provide the development finance for the helicopter to be built by the European consortium bidding for Westland; how much will be contributed directly or indirectly by the United Kingdom Government; whether a ceiling would be set on the United Kingdom contribution; and whether the United Kingdom will be free to purchase helicopters elsewhere if the proposed helicopter does not meet its specification or is not delivered on time.
(7) what proportion of the existing staff would be employed on work on the helicopter to be built by a European consortium in the event of the company agreeing to take part in the project;
§ Mr. Norman LamontThe Al29 anti-tank helicopter is an Italian project designed and built by Agusta and due to enter full production shortly. The PAH2 anti-tank helicopter is a Franco-German project, designed by Aerospatiale and MBB, due to begin full development this year and enter service in the early 1990s. Westland has not been involved in the development of either helicopter.
Over the past year discussions have been taking place between Italy, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom about the possibility of developing the Al 29 collaboratively to produce an advanced Al29 LAH, to enter service in the mid-1990s; these negotiations have yet to be concluded.
Defence Ministers from France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom indicated in December their desire to see a single European anti-tank helicopter project, which would combine elements of Al29 LAH and PAH2. It is too early to say what, if any, of the elements of the Al29 LAH and PAH2 programmes would be brought into a combined European programme or to comment on future levels of workshare, costs or numbers of aircraft from any future sole European collaborative anti-tank helicopter programme.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence whether the Government have considered the strategic implications of the offer by a consortium of continental European manufacturers to buy a 29.9 per cent. stake in Westland Helicopters; and whether the Government have sought and obtained a guarantee that the battle helicopter which is to replace the Al29 and PAH2 will not be dependent on sub-assemblies and components manufactured outside the United Kingdom, in the event that the European consortium offer to Westland is accepted.
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§ Mr. Norman LamontThe implications for procurement strategy in this field have been fully considered. The specific arrangements for the battlefield helicopter project will be for consideration in the light of the outcome of decisions by the Westland shareholders on the future of the company. It is a feature of most collaborative projects that, in order to obtain the benefits of scale in production, the participants depend upon each other's industry for components and sub-assemblies: Tornado and EH101 are examples.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence what part he or his officials played in the discussions, finalised on 29 November, leading to the formation of the European consortium which is seeking a stake in Westland.
§ Mr. Norman LamontSenior representatives of the European companies met my right hon. Friend, the then Secretary of State for Defence, and Ministry of Defence officials on 29 November 1985. Ministry of Defence officials have provided factual information on the Department's plans for future helicopter procurement. Westland has been regularly provided with similar information as part of the routine liaison between the Department and its main helicopter supplier.
§ Mr. Teddy Taylorasked the Secretary of State for Defence what is the nature and purpose of the NH90 project; what the letters NH convey; and why he told the Lloyd's Merchant Bank that a United States stake in Westland would be incompatible with participation by that company in the NH90 project.
§ Mr. Norman LamontI refer my hon. Friend to the answers given to the hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Mr. Mitchell) by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister earlier today.
§ Mr. Teddy Taylorasked the Secretary of State for Defence how Her Majesty's Government intend to implement the assurances given by the Prime Minister to the board of Westland plc regarding that company's future participation in European projects.
§ Mr. Norman LamontWe shall seek on all occasions to persuade our European partners of the advantages of Westland's participation in helicopter projects of mutual interest.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence whether the Government considered the range, characteristics and estimated cost of the helicopters currently and prospectively available in examining the case for purchasing supplies from a European consortium; and if he will publish this information in the Official Report.
§ Mr. Norman LamontMy Department keeps itself informed of the operational characteristics and estimated cost of helicopters which might potentially satisfy the needs of the armed services.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence whether the Government considered the merits of the AST404 helicopter compared to the NH90 for supply to the British Army; what are the main fighting and other characteristics of each; what was the estimated United Kingdom content of each; and what was the estimated cost in each case before and after taking account of other costs and benefits.
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§ Mr. Norman LamontThe comparison the hon. Member is seeking is between a Ministry of Defence staff target and a specific helicopter project which is currently the subject of international feasibility study. No answer is therefore possible on the basis requested.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence whether he is satisfied his policy on United States collaboration with Westland will not affect the willingness of the United States to place contracts for strategic defence initiative work in the United Kingdom.
§ Mr. Norman LamontI have no reason to suppose that decisions on the future of Westland will affect the placing of SDI work.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence whether he has examined the financial position of Agusta; how this compares with that of Westland; and what assessment he has made of the implications for each of these companies of a Westland link up with Sikorsky and Fiat.
§ Mr. Norman LamontAgusta, in common with other Western helicopter manufacturers, has experienced difficulties stemming from the stagnation of the world helicopter market following a period of growth in the 1970s. I understand that it is the intention of the Italian Government to sustain Agusta as a centre for the design, development and production of modern helicopters.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence whether the Government are satisfied that other EEC countries would be willing to supply helicopters to the United Kingdom for use in the Falklands should hostilities recommence.
§ Mr. Norman LamontI will answer shortly.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence what representations were made to the Governments of France, Italy and Germany before 29 November last to persuade them to take a shareholding directly or indirectly in Westland helicopters in return for a commitment by the United Kingdom to buy a continental helicopter.
§ Mr. Norman LamontI will answer shortly.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence what rates of exchange were used to cost the various options open to his Department for the purchase of helicopters; and what effect there would be if the costings were all adjusted to current rates of exchange.
§ Mr. Norman LamontI will answer shortly.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence whether the Government will give an undertaking that helicopters purchased from the European consortium will be built in the United Kingdom in the event of Westland agreeing to join the consortium.
§ Mr. Norman LamontThe implications for procurement strategy in this field have been fully considered. The specific arrangements for the battlefield helicopter project will be for consideration in the light of the outcome of decisions by the Westland shareholders on the future of the company. It is a feature of most collaborative projects that, in order to obtain the benefits of scale in production, the participants depend upon each other's industry for components and sub-assemblies: Tornado and EH101 are examples.
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§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence whether, in the negotiations leading up to the European consortium proposals for a share stake in Westland, he made it clear to the other Governments and companies concerned that the British Government would continue to support Westland's wish to participate in joint European projects.
§ Mr. Norman LamontYes.
§ Mr. Austin Mitchellasked the Secretary of State for Defence whether the Government are satisfied with the terms on which Westland Helicopters would participate in a European consortium to manufacture a battle helicopter in the event of the European consortium's proposals for Westlands being accepted; whether representatives of nationalised companies in other countries will be represented on the board of Westland; how Her Majesty's Government's interests will be safeguarded; and if he will publish in the Official Report such details as he has of the ownership, turnover and production of the firms concerned.
§ Mr. Norman LamontThe commercial arrangements between Westland and any companies which may acquire a shareholding in it would be for the companies themselves to decide. Her Majesty's Government's interests in specific projects would be safeguarded in the contractual and other arrangements for those projects.
No doubt the hon. Member could obtain direct from the relevant companies copies of their annual reports giving the further information he seeks.
§ Mr. Ashdownasked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will indicate in which year he anticipates being able to place the order for six Westland Sea King helicopters if the projected saving of £25 million from merging the Al29 and PAH2 helicopters is achieved.
§ Mr. Norman LamontThe Ministry of Defence cannot guarantee the order for six Sea Kings. However, if the plans for a five-nation battlefield helicopter project are approved, the order will be placed in late 1986, consistent with delivery in early 1990. This would apply whatever reconstruction proposals West land's shareholders accepted.
§ Mr. Ashdownasked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will give a breakdown and details of the £25 million projected savings in overheads from the merging of the Al29 and PAH2 helicopter projects.
§ Mr. Norman LamontIf a battlefield helicopter were procured on a five-nation basis, the United Kingdom defence budget would expect to contribute less than to a two-nation project because the costs of development would be more widely shared. The saving in the Department's forward costings is calculated to amount to £25 million by March 1991.
§ Mr. Teddy Taylorasked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement explaining where arid when the recent meeting of national armaments directors of France, Germany and Italy took place at which the decision was made to purchase only helicopters built in Europe; and what steps he took to publicise the decisions made at the meeting and the implications of the decisions for defence policy.
§ Mr. Norman LamontI shall answer shortly.