§ Mr. Kaufmanasked the Secretary of State for Industry if he will explain how and when he became aware, as stated in the letter to him from Sir Kenneth Keith, the text of which was given in his answer of 10 December to the right hon. Member for Manchester, Ardwick, of the reasons why, in the view of the board of Rolls-Royce, it would be much better for it to be responsible to the Secretary of State direct and to deal with his officials than to remain under the National Enterprise Board.
§ Sir Keith JosephShortly after taking office, I became aware of difficulties in the relationship between Rolls-Royce and the NEB; this issue was the subject of press comment in June. However, Sir Kenneth Keith's letter of 4 October was the first time I was formally told that it was the view of the board of Rolls-Royce that ownership of the company should be transferred back to the Department.
§ Mr. Kaufmanasked the Secretary of State for Industry what was the date of the letter to him from Sir Kenneth Keith, the text of which was given in his answer of 10 December to the right hon. Member for Manchester, Ardwick; whether he replied to that letter; and, if he replied, if he will publish that reply, with date, in the Official Report.
§ Sir Keith JosephThe letter from Sir Kenneth Keith, the text of which was given in my answer of 10 December was dated 4 October 1979. I replied to that letter on 19 October as follows:760W
Thank you for your letter of 4 October about the relationship between Rolls-Royce, the NEB and HMG.I have noted what you say and will certainly bear in mind the view of the Rolls-Royce Board
§ Mr. Kaufmanasked the Secretary of State for Industry when and where Sir Kenneth Keith had the excellent talk with the Minister of State, Department of Industry, the hon. Member for Bosworth (Mr. Butler), to which he refers in his letter to the Secretary of State for Industry published in the answer given on 10 December to the right hon. Member for Manchester, Ardwick; whether Sir Leslie Murphy or some other representative of the National Enterprise Board was present at this talk or advised in advance of it; what other meetings with Sir Kenneth Keith have been held since 4 May by the hon. Member for Bosworth or any other Minister of State or Under-Secretary of State at the Department of Industry with dates, places and reasons of meetings; and whether Sir Leslie Murphy or some other representative of the National Enterprise Board was present at, or advised in advance of, any of these meetings.
§ Sir Keith JosephMy hon. Friend the Minister of State met Sir Kenneth Keith for lunch at Rolls-Royce's office on 4 October 1979. This was one of a number of meetings undertaken by the Minister of State with the chairmen of public sector manufacturing concerns falling within his responsibilities in order to familiarise himself with the problems of those concerns. The NEB was not consulted beforehand; neither Sir Leslie Murphy nor any other representative of the NEB was present at the lunch. No other meeting, apart from this and those described in my answer of 10 December has taken place between Ministers of my Department and Sir Kenneth Keith since 4 May.
§ Mr. Kaufmanasked the Secretary of State for Industry if Sir Leslie Murphy was informed (a) in advance or (b) after-wards of his lunch with Sir Kenneth Keith at Rolls-Royce's office on 19 September, as distinct from the visit to Derby which it replaced; if Sir Leslie was informed in advance whether he agreed to it; and, if Sir Leslie was informed after-wards, when.
§ Sir Keith JosephAs I said in my answer on 10 December, Sir Leslie 761W Murphy was present when I received an invitation to visit Derby. I did not therefore consider it necessary to inform him of the changed arrangements necessitated by the industrial dispute in the engineering industry.
§ Mr. Kaufmanasked the Secretary of State for Industry whether it was to himself that Sir Frank McFadzean first indicated his willingness to accept the chairmanship of Rolls-Royce.
§ Sir Keith JosephYes.
§ Mr. Kaufmanasked the Secretary of State for Industry (1) whether, in addition to the potential chairman, to whom he referred in the first full paragraph of column 168 of the Official Report of Standing Committee E for 27 November, he sounded out any other persons as potential chairmen of Rolls-Royce; and if so, how many;
(2) whether the potential chairman of Rolls-Royce, to whom he referred in the first full paragraph of column 168 of the Official Report of Standing Committee E for 27 November, was Sir Frank McFadzean, a member of the present Rolls-Royce board, or someone else.
§ Sir Keith JosephI confirm that my reference in Standing Committee E to a "potential chairman of Rolls-Royce" was to Sir Frank McFadzean who was the only person I invited to consider the appointment.