HC Deb 11 December 1978 vol 960 cc78-81W
6. Mr. Wigley

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is his estimate of the additional jobs which will be available in Wales as a result of the establishment of the Government's proposed Welsh Assembly.

Mr. Alec Jones:

A number of extra posts, as already explained to this House, will be needed for the direct service of the Assembly. But more importantly, the establishment of the Assembly will bring major gains in democratic control and accountability.

Mr. Kinnock

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the latest available figure for expenditure that would be devolved to a Welsh Assembly under the Wales Act 1978 calculated on the same basis as that used in table 1 of Command Paper 6890.

Mr. John Morris:

The most recent figures are as follows:

able figures for identifiable public expenditure calculated on the same basis as that used in table 2 of Command Paper 6890.

IDENTIFIABLE PUBLIC EXPENDITURE:1977–78
£ million £ million outturn prices as per cent. of United Kingdom
Agriculture, Fisheries, Food and Forestry … … 67 7.0
Trade, industry and employment … … 201 9.4
Government lending to nationalised industries … … 200 45.3
Roads and transport … … 132 5.7
Housing … … 191 3.9
Other environmental services … … 130 4.6
Law, order and protective services … … 83 4.0
Education and libraries, science and arts … … 449 5.0
Health and personal social services … … 409 5.0
Social Security … … 763 5.6
Other public services … … 71 8.3
Common services … … 27 4.8
Total identifiable public expenditure … … 2,723 5.7

The definition of identifiable public expenditure given on page 17 of Cmnd 6890 applies equally to the above table.

Mr. Kinnock

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what are the latest available figures for the manner in which

FINANCING DEVOLVED EXPENDITURE (Based on 1977–78 data)
£ million at outturn prices
I. Expenditure
A. Public Expenditure on Devolved Services:
1. Central Government 545
2. Local Authorities: Current 567
3. Local Authorities: Capital 160
4. Public Corporations: Capital 45
1,317
B. Other Expenditure:
5. Local Authority Loan Charges 45
6. Local Authority Expenditure on Non-devolved Services, after allowing for Specific Grants 33
7. Other Net Adjustments —10
68
Total Expenditure 1,385
II. Finance
C. Rates and Borrowing:
8. Local Authority Rates 182
9. Borrowing by Local Authorities 104
10. Borrowing by Public Corporations 44
330
D. Block Fund:
11. Cash requirement of Welsh Consolidated Fund 1,055
Total Finance 1,385

Mr. Kinnock

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will give details of the estimated cost of a Welsh Assembly

Mr. John Morris:

I assume that the information requested is in respect of Wales only. The most recent figures on that basis are as follows:

devolved expenditure would be financed calculated on the same basis as that used for table 3 of Command Paper No. 6890.

Mr. John Morris:

I assume the information requested is in respect of Wales only. On that basis the most recent illustrative figures are as follows:

calculated on the same basis as that used to give the figure of E5-£12 million in Command Paper No. 6348.

Mr. John Morris:

The most recent available estimate of additional annual running costs of an Assembly, given in the financial memorandum to the Wales Bill is:

  1. (i) about £3 million in respect of salaries and related costs of members of the Assemblly and in respect of services for the Assembly;
  2. (ii) about £9½ million in respect of additional civil servants in Wales, including staff of the Welsh Comptroller and Auditor General and related costs, including accommodation costs.
The combined figure of about £12½million at November 1977 prices is equivalent to about £13.7 million at November 1978 prices.

Mr. Kinnock

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what are the current estimated final costs of providing a suitable building to house a Welsh Assembly.

Mr. John Morris:

The current estimated cost of converting the Exchange Building in Cardiff for use by the Welsh Assembly is approximately £3.5 million.

Mr. Kinnock

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what reduction in the staff employed in his Department he anticipates as a result of the proposed transfer of certain responsibilities from his Department to a Welsh Assembly under the Wales Act 1978.

Mr. John Morris:

I anticipate that my Department will be reduced by about half following the establishment of the Welsh Assembly.

Mr. Kinnock

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is his estimate of the costs, including employment of staff, arising from any implementation of proposals to determine and negotiate a Welsh Consolidated Fund as legislated in the Wales Act.

Mr. John Morris:

It is not possible to provide a meaningful estimate in the terms requested. I refer my hon. Friend to the explanatory and financial memorandum to the Wales Bill which gave details of the overall additional costs of establishing a Welsh Assembly.