§ Mr. McNamaraasked the Minister of Social Security (1) what reports she has received and what estimates she has made of the loss to the National Insurance Fund of the non-payment of National Insurance payments by self-employed persons in the construction industry; in in how many cases the description self-employed for National Insurance purposes has been challenged; and how many cases have been submitted to the courts for the years 1963, 1964 and 1965 and for the first 11 months of 1966;
(2) in circumstances where an employer or employee, or both, agree to the change of status from employee to self-employed person in the building industry, how many cases she has submitted to the High Court on a point of law, and with what results
§ Miss HerbisonNo reliable estimate can be made of the loss to the National Insurance Fund caused by non-payment of National Insurance contributions in the construction industry. Experience of investigations at building sites by the Ministry's inspectorate suggests that the loss is small in relation to the number of persons engaged, but special attention will continue to be paid to such sites.
If any doubt arises about a person's classification for National Insurance purposes officials of my Department can give advice. No record of the number of cases handled in this way is available. Where the advice is not accepted, the parties may apply for a formal determination by the Minister; or if steps are taken to recover the contributions by Court Proceedings, the Court can refer the question of classification to the Minister for formal determination. Such a determination may also be given on a reference from the independent statutory authorities in connection with a benefit claim.
303WDeterminations of the classification of building trade workers have been given in England and Wales as follows:—
Year Number of cases in which the classification of building trade workers has been formally determined 1963 42 (8) 1964 38 (3) 1965 34 (7) 1966 (to date) 34 (14) (a) The figures in brackets show how many of these cases arose from proceedings in either County Courts or Magistrates' Courts. (b) None of these determinations has led to an appeal on a question of law to the High Court; nor has the Minister made any reference to the High Court in connection with them.
§ Mr. McNamaraasked the Minister of Social Security what procedure is adopted by an operative who wishes to change his status from an employee to that of a self-employed person whilst working in the building industry; by what authority such a change is accepted; and if she will introduce legislation to permit a trade union to present a particular case for her decision.
§ Miss HerbisonWhether a gainfully occupied person comes into the employed or self-employed class for National Insurance depends on the actual conditions of employment. In another reply today to my hon. Friend I have explained how any doubts about a person's insurance classification can be resolved by, if necessary, applying for a formal determination by the Minister. It is already open to an insured person whose classification is in doubt to ask his trade union to apply for such a determination on his behalf.