Scottish Council (Meeting) (Hansard, 18 July 1962)

§ Mr. M. Noble

This was a meeting with representatives of the Scottish Council, of which the Scottish Trades Union Congress is a constituent member. A fairly lengthy statement was made immediately after the meeting, which I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

MEETING WITH SCOTTISH COUNCIL (DEVELOPMENT AND INDUSTRY) 12TH JULY, 1962

The Secretary of State for Scotland, who was accompanied by the Parliamentary Secretaries to the Board of Trade and the Ministry of Labour, congratulated the Scottish Council on the production of a thoughtful and balanced memorandum which had helped to bring into focus important elements of Scotland's present economic problem. Mr. Maclay said that he would place the main points made by the deputation before his colleagues in the Government and would get in touch with the Council again if it deemed that a further meeting would prove useful.

The Secretary of State said he had been most interested in the Council's figures about expansion of employment by over 80,000 during the two years to July, 1961, in some fields, with a net increase of some 30,000 after allowing for contraction in other fields. He remarked that it was of considerable interest to 58W note their estimate that established Scottish enterprises were responsible for 80 per cent, of the expansion, since the criticism was sometimes heard that Scottish industrialists did not do enough themselves for Scotland. The Secretary of State said he entirely agreed with the Council's view that the picture during this period was not that of an economy rushing down-hill to disaster, but reflected vigorous efforts made by all sections of the community to produce new industrial growth sufficient to outweigh the inevitable decline in some of the older established industries.

The Secretary of State said he had noted most carefully the Council's figures for July, 1961, to June, 1962, estimating that new jobs created at 20,000 would probably be 5,000 less than those disappearing. He pointed out that the present time was one of a relatively little new expansion or movement on the part of industry—particularly male-employing industry —and he emphasised that the most profitable course was to prepare to take immediate advantage of the more favourable climate for expansion as soon as this appeared.

Regarding the review of the Scottish mining industry announced on Wednesday by the National Coal Board, Mr. Maclay pointed out, while 20,000 men might lose their present jobs by 1966, the N.C.B. expects that new jobs and other vacancies in the expanding Scottish pits will total 30,000 in the same period. The N.C.B. will therefore be able to offer jobs elsewhere in Scotland to most of those who would be displaced. Replying to a request that the closing of pits might be delayed until other jobs are being provided, the Secretary of State said no useful purpose would be served by Scottish collieries toiling to produce coal in excess of what could be sold. Such coal would merely have to be stored above ground where it would deteriorate, aggravate the future supply position, and run up stockpiling costs. This would only postpone the date when we could hope to have a fully efficient and economic mining industry in Scotland. The Government's task was to see that the greatest number of additional employment opportunities were available for those miners who could not be re-absorbed in their own industry, and to ensure that adequate training or re-training facilities were provided.

Mr. Maclay reminded the deputation of the Government measures announced in the House the previous day—the acquiring of new sites in Scotland for industry, building of advance factories, and improvements in training allowances. He reassured the deputation that the Board of Trade would continue to operate a tough policy in issuing Industrial Development Certificates in the south. The Board of Trade, he said, would continue to refuse certificates for any project which could reasonably be steered to a development district.

The Secretary of State pointed out that regarding inducements for industrialists to go to Scotland, during the two years ending March, 1962, the Board of Trade offered assistance—excluding offer that had been declined—to 126 projects in Scotland for an amount of £41.4 million estimated to provide 28,900 extra jobs. This worked out at an average Government contribution per job of £1,400 the actual figure in individual cases 59W being sometimes less but sometimes considerably mow. The ability to tailor the offer to the needs of each particular case was part of the strength of the present inducement system. The interest rate charged had been five or five and a half per cent., and in over half the cases interest had been waived for initial periods.

On a proposal by the Council that, as a measure having immediate effect, the rate of capital investment in construction works should be stepped up, Mr. Maclay said that at the height of the 1961 building season the building and construction industries (especially the large firms) were employed at practically full capacity, and there was good reason to believe that the high level of output would be maintained and possibly even exceeded this year. Thus any expansion in the public works programme had to be carefully gauged in relation to the capacity available in the industry, and this may be nearing the limit in some areas.

On the question of rail closures the Secretary of State reassured the deputation that he entirely accepted that hardship to the travelling public should be avoided, and that the provisions contained in the Transport Bill would be adequate to ensure this.

The Secretary of State gave the strongest assurances to the deputation that the Government were fully aware of the changing needs of the Scottish economy and the human problems involved. They welcomed the co-operation of the Council and the invaluable work they were doing to secure the change and growth which are essential for Scotland's future and which it is the Government's policy to do everything in their power to promote.