§ Mr. GEORGE LLOYDasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury, with reference to the forest concession granted by the Government of British East Africa to Captain E. S. Grogan, whether, at the time of granting the agreement to lease and for long afterwards, the Government had no staff to survey the land agreed to be leased; whether the late Sir Donald Stuart especially requested Captain Grogan to carry out the survey himself with his own staff; whether, in lieu of paying the scheduled fee, amounting to £140, and awaiting the completion of the survey by the Government in the usual course, Captain Grogan introduced an efficient staff and carried out 948W surveying operations at an expenditure in excess of £4,000; whether, before the completion of the survey, the Government started military operations against a neighbouring tribe, closed the district, and prevented Captain Grogan's staff from completing their work; whether the district was thus closed for about three years and the lessee denied access thereto, though paying royalties in advance; and whether the Government are now proceeding against the lessee for recovery of the area for alleged non-fulfilment of conditions on land on to which he has been denied access and the position of which is still unknown and undefined?
§ MASTER of ELIBANKThe agreement referred to in my answer of 28th February conveyed to Captain E. S. Grogan "all that and those pieces and parcels of land situated and being near the Eldama Ravine, comprising together 64,000 acres, or thereabouts, which said pieces are more particularly delineated and described on the sketch plan annexed and in the schedule further described." The schedule carefully defined the boundaries which were, it is believed, well known to Captain Grogan. There is nothing in the despatches received from that the late Sir D. Stewart especially recessor to show that, at the time of granting the agreement to lease and for long afterwards, the Government had no staff to survey the land agreed to be leased, that the late Sir D. Stewart especially requested Captain Grogan to carry out the survey himself with his own staff, and that it was, in lieu of paying a scheduled fee amounting to £140 and awaiting the completion of the survey by the Government in the usual course, that Captain Grogan introduced a staff and carried out survey operations. It appears, however, from one of three despatches, that Captain Grogan particularly wished his own surveyor to do the work because he was also a timber expert—and, further, that, although the onus of surveying the area mentioned in the schedule referred to above lay with the Government, the work could have been clone at any time, and that there was no reason why the lessees should not have begun work within the well-defined limits stated in the agreement. With regard to the latter part of the hon. Gentleman's question, operations were started against the Nandi tribe in the latter part of 1905, but the local authorities have stated that the only period during which the forests near the Ravine 949W could have been held to be unsafe was from October, 1905, to May or June, 1906. As a matter of fact Captain Grogan accompanied the Chief Conservator of Forests in the Protectorate over the Eldama forest towards the end of 1906. The Protectorate Government were proceeding against Captain Grogan with a view to cancelling the agreement, but, in consequence of telegraphic representations which were made by him and the hon. Member for Penryn and Falmouth to the Governor in January to the effect that their evidence was delayed owing to their Parliamentary duties, but would be forthcoming if a postponement of the case were agreed to, the Secretary of State has authorised the postponement of the case.