HL Deb 19 October 1989 vol 511 c1129WA
Lord Denning

asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether, following Earl Ferrers' answers of 10th July (H.L. Debs., col. 88) and 24th July (H.L. Debs., col. 1290), it was appropriate or legitimate, in administration of a local charity in a rural parish, for the relevant decisions to be carried out in two stages by two different government departments; or whether the administration should not have been carried out in one stage by either the Secretary of State under Section 2 of the Education Act 1973 or by the Charity Commissioners subject to Section 21 of the Charities Act 1960.

The Minister of State, Home Office (Earl Ferrers)

I understand that very unusually the operative trusts in this case are such that the premises could be dealt with either by an order of the Secretary of State under Section 2 of the Education Act 1973 or by a scheme of the commissioners under the Charities Act 1960. In the circumstances it was considered right for both departments to consider the future application of the charity's assets.

Lord Denning

asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether, following the answer of Viscount Davidson on 19th June (H.L. Debs., col. 120), Section 29 of the Charities Act 1960 gives the Charity Commissioners any power to make "sale orders", especially in the case of a local charity in a rural parish, without consulting the parish council and without any scheme being established under Section 21 or any order made under Section 23.

Earl Ferrers

I understand that the commissioners take the view that an order authorising a sale of charity property can be made under Section 29 of the Charities Act 1960 alone. It is not necessary to look to a scheme under Section 18 of the Act or an order under Section 23 of the Act to satisfy the statutory requirement imposed by Section 29. The power to authorise sales or other dispositions of property has always been separate and distinct from the Commissioner's other powers. Not infrequently, however, a sale will affect the charity's trusts and in such a case a scheme will also be needed to vary these.

All schemes established by the Charity Commissioners have to published in accordance with the requirements of Section 21 of the Charities Act 1960. If the scheme relates to a local charity in a rural parish, a draft of the scheme has to be communicated to the parish council. There is no statutory requirement to publish sale orders or send drafts to the parish council. I understand, however, that it is the commissioners' usual practice (in the absence of good reason for dispensing with it) to insist that on the sale of charity property notices should be published locally inviting higher offers and this provides an element of publicity for the proposed disposition.