Mr. T. THOMSONasked the President of the Board of Education what annual saving he estimates he will secure by the operation of Circular 1371 in the Middlesbrough educational area; and what will be the extra cost thrown on the local rates if the present standard of educational efficiency is to be maintained?
§ Lord E. PERCYAs regards the first part of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given on the 2nd December to the hon. Member for Penistone (Mr. Ronnie Smith), and, as regards the second part, to that given on the 9th December to the hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr. Lindley), copies of which I am sending him.
§ Mr. BARKERasked the President of the Board of Education if he has received from the Monmouthshire Education Committee a resolution protesting against the Board of Education Circular 1371, in which it is stated that it is estimated that the financial provisions of the Circular will cost this authority £14,000 a 1635W year; that there are many financially derelict parishes within the county boards of guardians' areas; and that the Bedwellty Union alone is £98,700 in arrears of the county precepts; and will he, therefore, withdraw the Circular?
§ Lord E. PERCYI would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to me on 14th December to the Member for Bedwellty (Mr. C. Edwards) and other hon. Members, a copy of which I am sending him, together with, my previous answer which' is referred to. I may add that the letter which I received from the Monmouthshire authority did not mention specifically the sum of £14,000.
§ Mr. WESTWOODasked the President of the Board of Education what will be the amount of total grants payable to England for the years 1926 to 1028 under the suggested system of block grants?
§ Lord E. PERCYIf the hon. Member will refer to the reply which I gave on 8th December to the right hon. Member for the English Universities (Mr, Fisher), a copy of which I am sending him, he will understand that it is not possible for me to give the information for which he asks.
§ Mr. HARRISasked the President of the Board of Education if he will give an assurance that the projected expenditure of local education authorities upon school medical services and the provision of meals for necessitous children will be excluded from the proposed reduction of 1 per cent. of the 1924–25 expenditure upon elementary education?
§ Lord E. PERCYThe fact that, as the hon. Member is aware, I am consulting with local authorities on the proposals made in the Circular is sufficient assurance that all proper consideration will be given to the needs of the services to which he refers.
§ Mr. HARRISasked the President of the Board of Education how many classes there are in elementary schools with 80 children on the rolls in England and Wales; and whether the stabilisation of the grant will withdraw any incentive to reduce the size of classes?
§ Lord E. PERCYOn the 31st March, 1923 there were, in England and Wales, 4,022 classes with 60 or more children on the rolls. I have no corresponding later1636W figure, but on the 31st March, 1924, there were 494 classes with more than 60 on the roll. As regards the second part of the question, I propose to deal with this point during the Debate to-day.
§ Mr. LIVINGSTONEasked the President of the Board of Education how many classrooms there are in the country containing more than two classes; which authorities have taken steps to reduce the number of classes in one room; and what will be the effect of Circular 1371 on these developments?
§ Lord E. PERCYAccording to the Return which I furnished to the Order of the House in February last there were, on 21st May, 1924, 1,590 classrooms containing more than two classes. I have no statistics bearing on the second part of the question. I propose to deal with this question during to-day's Debate.
§ Mr. LIVINGSTONEasked the President of the Board of Education how it is proposed to reconcile the development of essential services with a fixed grant?
§ Lord E. PERCYIf the hon. Member is referring to Circular 1371, he has overlooked the fact that the grants proposed therein are not fixed.
§ Mr. ERNEST EVANSasked the President of the Board of Education whether any local education authority has expressed its approval of the policy embodied in Circular 1371?
§ Lord E. PERCYI am unable to say. As the hon. and gallant Member may be aware, I am at present in the course of consultation with the Local Authorities Associations.
§ Mr. EVANSasked the President of the Board of Education whether the adoption of the policy of Circular 1371 will lead to a reduction in the total grant payable to training colleges?
§ Lord E. PERCYNo, Sir. The arrangements proposed in the circular include the continuance of the special grant to local education authorities which maintain training colleges, and the circular does not affect the grants payable to non-local education authority institutions, whether training colleges or others.
§ Mr. EVANSasked the President of the Board of Education whether it is proposed to introduce a new system of part-time education for children under six 1637W years of age: and, if so, whether legislation will be required?
§ Lord E. PERCYI have nothing to add to what is stated in the first paragraph of the Note on page 4 of the circular. As regards the second part of the question, I am advised that legislation would not be required.
§ Mr. FENBYasked the President of the Board of Education how many certificated and how many uncertificated and how many unqualified teachers there are in elementary schools in England and Wales, and how he proposes to increase the number of certificated teachers if Circular 1371 is put into operation?
§ Lord E. PERCYOn the 30th September, 1925, there were employed in public elementary schools in England and Wales 119,537 certificated teachers, 32,892 uncertificated teachers and 9,337 supplementary teachers. As regards the second part of the question, I shall be dealing with this point during the Debate to-day.
§ Mr. RUNCIMANasked the President of the Board of Education whether the policy of the Board as declared in Circular 1371, to ensure that the benefit of any economies made by a local education authority will accrue to it in full, will result in any reduction in the proposed block grant in the case of an authority which declines to pay the teachers in its area the Burnham scale of salaries?
§ Lord E. PERCYYes, Sir. I have already decided to include in the conditions of grant a provision empowering me to adjust the grant in such cases as that to which the right hon. Member refers.
§ Captain GARRO-JONESasked the President of the Board of Education whether he will undertake to examine reports of inspections by His Majesty's inspectors of schools during 1923, 1924 and 1925, and present to the House in a White Paper a statement in general terms of requirements regarded by His Majesty's inspectors as essential to the efficient conduct of the schools?
§ Lord E. PERCYThese reports related to the particular conditions which the inspectors found at the time of the inspection to be affecting individual schools, and I do not think that a summary of the reports would be of much assistance in1638W formulating general standards of efficiency.
§ Captain GARRO-JONESasked the President of the Board of Education whether the Board has approved of the general reduction in the size of classes in London elementary schools to 40 children in average attendance in senior schools and 48 in infant schools: and whether it is proposed, under Circular 1371, to withhold sanction to the further writing down of the accommodation of class-rooms?
§ Lord E. PERCYMy Department have approved the resumption by the county council of their policy of reducing the size of classes in the manner indicated. The council's three year programme provides for a gradual process of reduction; and, though in the case of junior departments the standard of 40 is greatly in advance of any general standard hitherto laid down or suggested by the Board, I see no reason to suggest that the arrangements outlined in Circular 1371 would prevent the council carrying out gradually any policy which, in its opinion, is necessary to meet special conditions in London.
§ Mr. R. RICHARDSONasked the President of the Board of Education in how many classes in elementary schools the number of children is between 40 and 49, 50 and 59, and 60 and over, respectively?
§ Lord E. PERCYOn the 31st March, 1924 (the latest date for which complete returns are available), there were, in England and Wales, 40,647 classes with more than 40 but not more than 50 children on the registers; 24,473 classes with more than 50 but not more than 60 on the registers; and 494 classes with more than 60 on the registers.
§ Mr. SHORTasked the President of the Board of Education how many children under five years of age are attending the elementary schools in Wednesbury, Tipton, and Darlaston, respectively?
§ Lord E. PERCYOn the 31st March, 1925, there were no pupils aged under five years on the registers of public elementary schools in these areas.
§ Mr. KELLYasked the President of the Board of Education how many children under the age of five years are attending the elementary schools of Rochdale, and the money he estimates he will save in one year under the new system of grants suggested by Circular 1371?
1639W
§ Lord E. PERCYOn the 31st March, 1925, there were (on the registers) 1,179 children aged under five years. As regards the second part of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given by me on the 10th December, 1925, to the hon. Member for West Middlesbrough (Mr. T. Thomson), a copy of which I am sending him.