§ Mr. BOLANDasked the Chief Secretary whether he is aware that, through no fault of the tenants, the two Chute estates, the Mahony, Quill, M'Gillicuddy Eager and O'Connell estates, in the parishes of Glen-car and Tuogh, county Kerry, have not been sold; whether the Congested Districts Board will now take steps to have these properties valued, acquire them under their compulsory powers, and sell them to the occupying tenants under agreement to purchase; and whether, in view of the resolutions to this effect unanimously passed at a public meeting held by the tenants at Glencar on the 2nd April, the Congested Districts Board will act promptly in the matter, and subsequently carry out the necessary improvements?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI am aware that the tenants of the estates referred to are anxious to purchase their holdings. The Congested Districts Board will discharge their duties in respect of these and other estates as quickly as circumstances permit, but they are unable to make definite statements now as to the course that may be taken in each case.
§ Mr. WILLIAM O'BRIENasked what is there to prevent the Estates Commissioners from ascertaining from documents in their possession what is the excess in the rate of interest payable by the 157,295 tenant purchasers on non-vested estates over the 2¾ per cent. guaranteed by the Purchase Act of 1903; and, inasmuch as the Estates Commissioners supplied to this House an estimate that it will take £180,000,000 to £200,000,000 to complete the purchase of the soil of Ireland, and as only £74,994,000 worth has yet been purchased, on what ground can the Estates Commissioners deny that the tenants on non-purchased estates are paying considerably more than £1,000,000 per annum in excess of their reduced annuities if they were enabled to purchase at the current rate of reduction of 28 per cent.?
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§ Mr. BIRRELLThe rate of interest m lieu of rent payable by tenants in direct sales under the Land Purchase Acts is a matter of agreement between the parties. In order to ascertain the amount of the difference between the interest so paid by the tenants in pending direct sales, and the annuities at 3¼ per cent. which will be payable when the holdings are vested in them, it would be necessary to examine over 130,000 pending agreements, and the Estates Commissioners do not think the result would be in any way commensurate with the labour involved. In the majority of cases the interest in lieu of rent payable by the tenant purchasers is fixed at the rate of 3½ per cent., and they are therefore paying only five shillings per cent. more than they will pay when their holdings are vested. On the other hand, such interest is very much less than the rent formerly payable. The total purchase money of estates sold, or for sale, of which proceedings are pending before the Commissioners under the Acts 1903–09, amounts to 87½ millions. It is not possible for the Commissioners to form any estimate of the difference between the rents paid by tenants on estates which are not the subject of proceedings for sale, and the annuities which would be payable to them if estates were sold and their holdings vested in them under the Land Purchase Acts.
§ Mr. LARDNERasked how many years it will take to conclude all sales pending at the 1st January, 1911, estimating the rate of progress by the number and amount of the sales carried through in the year 1910; and will he state the total purchase prices of the estates sold in 1910, specifying whether paid for in cash only, stock only, or partly in cash and partly in stock?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe rate at which estates the subject of pending purchase agreements are dealt with and the purchase money advanced depends not only on the amount of money which may be available during each year but also on the number of vendors who may elect to accept payment either wholly in stock, partly in stock, and partly in cash, or who decide to wait for payment in cash. Under the regulations vendors have up to the 1st April in each year to elect for the succeeding year to accept payment either wholly or partly in stock, and the Estates Commissioners cannot possibly forecast how many vendors may so elect each year, or the amount of money which may be available for land purchase in such year. During the year to 31st March, 1911,576W advances were made to the amount of £7,344,952. This sum includes £2,307,760, advances financed by the issue at ninety-two of £2,508,435 guaranteed two and three-quarter per cent. stock issued under Section 3 (2) of the Irish Land Act, 1909. It also includes £406,984 advances in guaranteed three per cent. stock. The total advances applied for in estates pending for sale on the 1st April, 1911, amounted to £46,395,916.
§ Mr. LARDNERasked the net amount paid out for the purchase of lands under the Land Purchase Acts in each of the last five years, specifying whether paid in stock or in cash, and under what Acts the sales were effected?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe amount of advances made under the Irish Land Act, 1903, in each of the last five years is as follows:—
The figure, £7,344,952, includes £2,307,760 10s. 0d. advances financed by the issue at ninety-two of £2,508,435 8s. 6d. Guaranteed Two and Three-quarter per Cent. Stock issued under Section 3 (2) of the Irish Land Act, 1909.
Year ending,31st March £ 1907 … 5,941,348 1908 … 5,166,904 1909 … 6,562,551 1910 … 7,062,082 including £180 advances in Guaranteed Three per Cent. Stock. 1911 … 7,344,952 including £406,984 advances in Guaranteed Three per Cent. Stock.
§ Mr. HAYDENasked whether the attention of the Estates Commissioners had been directed to the state of congestion of Cam, near Athlone, county Roscommon, and of the fact that a certain measure of relief can be afforded by the distribution of the untenanted lands on the St. George estate in that parish, now in the possession of the Commissioners; and whether, in view of these facts, the Commissioners will take immediate steps to have this land split up amongst the people of the district?
§ Mr. BIRRELLProceedings for the sale to the Estates Commissioners of 169 acres of tenanted and 840 acres of untenanted land on the townland of Cam, on the St. George estate, are pending before the Commissioners. The owner has accepted the Commissioners' proposal, and will hand over possession to the Commissioners as soon as he has settled with the tenants as regards the rent due by them.
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§ Mr. HAYDENasked when the Estates Commissioners will distribute the untenanted land recently acquired by them upon the Crichton estate, in the parish of Kilbride, county Roscommon?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Estates Commissioners have purchased and distributed 221 acres of untenanted land on the estate referred to. The owner has also instituted proceedings for the sale of 1,489 acres, including 72 acres of untenanted land, to the Commissioners, and this estate will be dealt with in order of priority.
§ Mr. FRANCIS MEEHANasked when the estate of H. J. B. Clements, Manorhamilton, county Lcitrim, would be vested in the Estates Commissioners, and what further reduction on instalments would accrue to the tenants thereafter; and whether the Commissioners would yet include the sale of the town of Manorhamilton, which is situated on the estate?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThis estate is being sold direct by the owners to the tenants under Section 1 of the Irish Land Act, 1903. The estate has not yet been reached in order of priority, and, having regard to the prior claims of other estates, the Commissioners are unable to say when its turn will be reached. The rate of interest in lieu of rent agreed to be paid by the tenants pending the vesting of the holdings is 3½ per cent. on the purchase money. When the holdings are vested, the annuities payable will be at the rate of 3¼ per cent. The town of Manorhamilton is not included in the estate pending before the Estates Commissioners.
§ Mr. O'SULLIVANasked whether, at the sale of the Kenmare estate, county Kerry, an agreement was entered into by Lord Kenmare, as part of the purchase arrangement, to provide free turbary and limestone for the tenants on the Coolies portion of the estate; and whether this part of the agreement has yet been carried out?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Estates Commissioners inform me that this estate has not yet been reached in order of priority to be dealt with by them. The purchase agreements signed by the tenants and lodged in the Land Commission make no reference to the matters referred to in the question.
§ Mr. DORISasked whether the Congested Districts Board has completed the purchase of the estate of Lord Lucan in the neighbourhood of Castlebar, county Mayo; and whether the Board will pur- 578W chase the grass lands within the urban area of Castlebar for distribution amongst the town tenants if the said lands he offered for sale by the landlord?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Congested Districts Board have arranged terms of purchase for the estate of Lord Lucan in the neighbourhood of the town of Castlebar. The Board do not propose to purchase the grass lands in the urban area. These lands are at present in the occupation of merchants and other persons residing in the town in premises held by many of them as subtenants.
§ Mr. CLANCYasked the Chief Secretary with reference to the reported sale of the Homepatrick estate, near Skerries, in the county of Dublin, whether the estate in question contains a considerable portion of untenanted land and the town of Skerries; whether the untenanted land and the town of Skerries have been included in the sale: and whether the Estates Commissioners have sanctioned an advance in this case?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThis estate is the subject of proceedings for sale direct from the landlord to the tenants under the Irish Land Act, 1903. There is no untenanted land included in the estate pending before the Estates Commissioners, and no agreements have been lodged in respect of the town holdings in Skerries. The estate has not been reached in order of priority and having regard to the prior claims of other estates the Commissioners are unable to say when it will be dealt with.
§ Mr. CLANCYasked the Chief Secretary with reference to the sale of the Alexander estate, at Garristown., in the county of Dublin, whether an advance has been made to an intermediate landlord for the purchase of a town holding and garden not in his possession, but in the possession of an occupying tenant named John Gormley; if so, was inquiry made as to the facts of this case before the advance was sanctioned; and under what enactment it was possible for an advance to be made to a person other than the actual occupier?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Estates Commissioners inform me that the Alexander estate, county Dublin, was sold direct by the owner to the tenants under the Irish Land Act, 1903. John Gormley signed an agreement to purchase his holding at Garristown, and it was vested in him in October last. The Commissioners cannot trace any sub-tenant of the name of John Gormley on the estate.
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§ Mr. O'SHAUGHNESSYasked if he can say what is the cause of the delay in completing the sale of the estate of Robert S. De Vere, situated at Drominacrine and Bowhard, in the county of Limerick, the tenants on which signed agreements to purchase in May, 1907; and when will the estate be vested in the tenants?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThis estate will be dealt with in order of priority, but, having regard to the prior claims of other estates, the Estates Commissioners are not at present in a position to say when it will be reached in its turn.
§ Mr. O'SHAUGHNESSYasked whether the Estates Commissioners recently received a petition from the tenants on the estate of James O'Grady Delmege, situate in the parish of Rathronan, in the county of Limerick, known as the Glensharrold estate, asking them to put in force their compulsory powers under the Land Acts for the purchase of the estate, as it is a congested estate within the meaning of the Act; whether, having regard to the fact that no agreement can be arrived at between the landlord and tenants, the negotiations for purchase having fallen through, he will state what action the Estates Commissioners intend to take in the matter; and whether they will accede to the request contained in the petition?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe petition referred to was only received by the Estates Commissioners on the 10th instant, and will be considered by them in due course.
§ Mr. DUFFYasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he is aware that an inspector of the Congested Districts Board was on the lands of Cockstown, Ardrahan, county Galway, in the possession of Mr. John M'Namara, victualler, Gort, as an annuitant tenant, which he has offered for sale for distribution amongst uneconomic holders adjoining, on the 6th March, 1911; will he state with what result; whether he is aware that those lands were being dealt with by the Estates Commissioners since July, 1909; and what steps are being taken to carry into effect the wishes of the small tenants adjoining?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Congested Districts Board inform me that Mr. John M'Namara's lands have not been inspected, but they will be inspected as soon as possible.
§ Mr. DUFFYasked the Chief Secretary whether he is aware that the Estates Com- 580W missioners have acquired the estate of Mr. Daly, Ballydavid, in the townlands of Ballydavid and Carrarae, electoral division of Kilmeen, Loughrea; and whether he can give any indication as to the possible time when the Commissioners may be able to deal with this property?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Estates Commissioners have issued a formal proposal for the purchase of 415 acres and 334 acres of untenanted land on the townlands of Carrowroe and Ballydavid on the estate of Mrs. Bessie Daly, county Galway, and they are awaiting the acceptance of their proposal by the owner, who lives in Australia.
§ Mr. JOHN ROCHEasked the Chief Secretary whether the lands of Brook-wood, upon the Bagot estate, county Gal-way, held by Doctor Crean, of Ballyhaunis, have been offered for sale to the Estates Commissioners, or have negotiations taken place between the Commissioners and Doctor Crean in reference to the purchase of the said land; are they still going on; and, if not, can he state the reason?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Estates Commissioners were in negotiation with Dr. Crean with the view of acquiring some of the lands of Brookwood, but have not been able to come to any arrangement with him as to price.
§ Mr. SHEEHANasked the Chief Secretary whether he can state the area of the grazing and untenanted lands on the Massy estate, in the neighbourhood of Macroom, county Cork; whether any steps have been recently taken by the Estates Commissioners to acquire these for the purposes of distribution; is he aware that an arrangement was entered into between representatives of the tenants, including the hon. Member for Mid Cork, and legal agents acting for the owners, at a special sitting of the Estates Commissioners, held in their board room, Dublin, in November, 1906, that this untenanted land should be specially handed over to the Commissioners for distribution amongst the evicted tenants, labourers, and small holders; and that the workers in the town of Macroom were to be particularly provided for in this respect; was a shorthand note of the proceedings connected with this arrangement taken by an official of the Commissioners; does any minute of the arrangement referred to now exist; in what position do negotia- 581W tions for the purchase of the Massy estate by the tenants at present stand; and when the untenanted and grazing lands come into the hands of the Commissioners, will it be seen to that they are utilised in full accordance with the terms of the arrangement referred to?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Estates Commissioners inform me that an interview took place on the 23rd November, 1906, between representatives of the owner and tenants and the Commissioners at which terms of sale were agreed upon by the owner and the tenants. There is no shorthand note of the proceedings at the interview but a minute was drawn up embodying the terms agreed upon which make no special reference to residents in the town of Macroom. The owner agreed to these terms of sale, but died in 1907, when the estate went into Chancery. An order for sale has been made by the Land Judge in whose Court the estate is now the subject of proceedings, and the Commissioners issued a request under Section 7 of the Irish Land Act, 1903, to the Land Judge to be furnished with the usual documents which have recently been lodged. The estate comprises some 10,615 acres of tenanted, and 3,080 acres of untenanted land which appears to consist for the most part of mountain and bog. When dealing with the estate the Commissioners will have regard to the arrangement come to during the lifetime of the late owner.
§ Mr. HACKETTasked what steps the Estates Commissioners have taken to comply with the requests contained in the memorials forwarded to them complaining of the congested state of their holdings on the Trant estate at Ballinahow Thurles, county Tipperary; Going estate at Ballyphilip, Thurles, county Tipperary; and the Earl of Normanton's estate, Bishopswood, Dundrum, county Tipperary; and whether the Estates Commissioners propose to declare these estates congested areas under the Land Act, 1909?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Estates Commissioners have directed an inspection to be made of the lands on Lord Normanton's estate referred to. The memorials regarding the lands on the Trant and Going estates are at present under the consideration of the Commissioners.
§ Mr. HACKETTasked whether the Estates Commissioners have made an amended offer for the untenanted lands on the estate of Surgeon-General Roe, of 582W Loran Park, Roscrea; whether the owner has intimated to the Estates Commissioners his refusal of this amended offer; and whether the Estates Commissioners will proceed to acquire the untenanted lands compulsorily under the Land Act, 1909, in order to remedy the congested state of the district?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Estates Commissioners had a preliminary inspection made of the lands, and intimated to the owner their estimate of the amount which they would be prepared to advance if formal proceedings for sale were instituted by him. He was unwilling to accept the Commissioners estimated price, and has not instituted proceedings for sale. Proceedings under the Evicted Tenants Act for the compulsory acquisition of certain lands from which tenants had been evicted have been instituted by the Commissioners, and pending the result of these proceedings they have taken no action as regards the residue.
§ Mr. GILHOOLYasked whether the Congested Districts Board have received a memorial relative to the sale of the estate of Mrs. Forde, situate at Breenymore, Bantry, county Cork, to the tenants; and, if so, have the Congested Districts Board taken any action with regard to it, and with what result?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Congested Districts Board received the memorial referred to, and wrote to the owner, who is not resident in Ireland, but they have rot yet been informed whether the owner is willing to negotiate for the sale of the lands.