Sitting of 23 November 2001

Preamble
The House met at half-past Nine o'clock
PRAYERS
[MR. SPEAKER in the Chair]
Orders of the Day

  Age Equality Commission Bill
  Order for Second Reading read.
  9.33 am
  Ms Candy Atherton: I begin by pointing out some facts that may bring home to hon. Members what my Bill to establish an age equality commission is about. As I stand here as a woman in her mid-40s, I have been termed a young thing—
  Mr. Desmond Swayne: Hear, hear!
  Ms Atherton: I thank the hon. Gentleman. In the world outside, however, I am deemed an older worker. That speaks volumes about this place and about the world of work beyond these walls. In the House, the average age of Members of Parliament is 52, an historic low. We are probably the most protected older workers in the country.
  If hon. Members were to be faced with unemployment, they might not find it easy to walk into a new job when they reach more senior years. Millions of our fellow citizens discover that every year. Some 2.8 million people between 50 and the state pension age are unemployed. Almost a quarter of men in their 50s have left the labour market. The cost to our economy of age discrimination in employment is estimated by the Employers Forum on Age to account for some £31 billion a year. Tackling age discrimination would have clear benefits for the economy and for business.
  The issue is about not only employment, but health care and access to services and training. It is about cultural life, volunteering and participating in society as a whole. It is also particularly about financial services—the arbitrary rip-off of older people by companies to pump up the premiums.
  I wish to see an age equality commission established to look at all those issues. Its members would be appointed by the Secretary of State and it would monitor existing and future legislation. It would advise Government, business and public and voluntary sectors on issues relating to age discrimination. It would evaluate existing measures and schemes and suggest improvements or wholesale change.
  The world—the first world, in particular—is waking up to the issue. The bubbling pension issue in Europe is well known. In this country, the phrase "ageing population" is now entrenched in our political discourse. By around
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  2030, half the population of western Europe will be over 50. Population estimates suggest that the 55 to 64 age bracket will form the largest sector of the work force in 2026. Every four years, life expectancy increases by one year.
  Mr. Swayne: Will not the very force of the statistics that the hon. Lady is citing provide the market imperative against age discrimination?
  Ms Atherton: I beg the hon. Gentleman to listen to a little more of my speech to hear the arguments on why the market has not so far worked for older people.
  Academia recognises the issue; this year, Oxford university has set up the Institute of Ageing, with the support of Help the Aged and its international sister organisations. Next year, the second world assembly on ageing will take place in Madrid. The Government also recognise that something needs to be done. As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has put it himself:
  "The Government firmly believe that age discrimination is unfair and makes no economic sense for business or society."—[Official Report, 31 July 1997; Vol. 299, c. 493W.]
  To that end, the Government have produced the life begins at 50 programme, the performance and innovation unit report "Winning the Generation Game", the passport 50-plus guide, the new deal for 50-plus and the better government for older people programme—a bookcase of literature recognising the problem.
  Importantly, the Government have also recognised that age discrimination is an issue that goes beyond simply employment. The national service framework for older people makes it clear that it aims
  "to ensure that older people are never unfairly discriminated against in accessing NHS or social care services as a result of their age."
  It continues:
  "In some health and social care services, older people and their carers have experienced age discrimination in access to and availability of services."
  That is absolutely true.
  When the steering group of the better government for older people initiative published a report in 2000, it noted that the projects were undermined by a lack of legislation. It stated:
  "We believe there is a strong case for legislation against all forms of unfair age discrimination and call on the Government to bring forward proposals to that end."
  The report called for legislation to be wider than that governing employment and urged the Government to bring forward proposals in the next Parliament. In the Government's response, "Building on Partnership", they indicated that they would
  "tackle discrimination against older people and will continue to act to combat it wherever it is found".
  We are now in the next Parliament, and I am delighted to offer the Government a means to this end.
  Age discrimination pervades all aspects of our society, including goods and services. There is a widespread culture of discrimination which holds back individuals and society.
  Mr. Swayne: Does the hon. Lady agree that such discrimination also relates to the Government? I draw her

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  attention to the hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Mr. Mitchell) when he said of the Government and their formation:
  "I came back to find that I am indeed part of an excluded generation—the rising-60s. To paraphrase Wordsworth in 'The Prelude': 'Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive—but to be old was something of a disadvantage.'"—[Official Report, 16 May 1997; Vol. 294, c. 305.]
  Ms Atherton: I do not wish to comment on the remarks of my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby (Mr. Mitchell), but many of us find that we are becoming older workers.
  Age is the one major area of discrimination that the country has yet to tackle. We have worked on race, sex, gender and disability—most of those issues are already the responsibility of commissions. Age is the great omission yet it affects us all—I hope.
  We must accept that we have failed to tackle the problem effectively. However, we must: recognise that this form of discrimination does not have the same profile as race or gender, for instance. This means that we will have to play catch-up. I believe that we should have acted sooner, for this delay presents problems. We cannot run before we can walk. Although I want to see action and results, punitive regulation at this stage may not be the answer. There is a need to educate, spread best practice and consider the many options to tackle age discrimination wherever it is found.
  Linda Perham: Does my hon. Friend agree that there is also evidence of discrimination against younger people? It is not just a question of getting voted off first in "The Weakest Link". Has she considered extending the remit of her Bill to include all age groups?
  Ms Atherton: I have considered extending it to younger workers, but as older workers face discrimination, the Bill focuses on them.
  I believe that a commission can offer many answers. It would provide the Government with a rich font of expertise and research to deliver for older people. The seventh report of the Select Committee on Education and Employment on age discrimination in employment found a
  "lack of robust statistical analysis"
  on the issue. I like to think that the Bill would provide what the Select Committee was looking for. Its report goes on to say:
  "Only if there is robust information on the prevalence of age discrimination can effective policies to combat it be designed and properly evaluated. The Government should commission research accordingly."
  A commission would assist the Government, bringing together policy strands and Departments to focus attention on this outstanding problem.
  Since taking up this issue, I have discovered just how many Departments it affects and how many Ministers have responsibilities in this area. The Minister replying to the debate has responsibilities for employment at the Department of Trade and Industry. The Department for Work and Pensions has an obvious role, and the Minister for Pensions has made an important and valued
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  contribution. The Department of Health, the Department for Education and Skills, the Department for Culture. Media and Sport and the Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions also have a role. The list goes on.
  Let me personalise my point by considering a man of 55, excluded from the labour market or perhaps denied access to skills training or promotion. His end of working life crisis may mean long-term unemployment or a reliance on temporary or low-paid work. It also means 10 years or so of his failing to make pension contributions or arrangements for his future security. The effect is obvious.
  It is no accident that studies have proved that relative standards of income and wealth are more polarised in people's fifties than in their thirties. Almost half of those excluded from the labour force rely on benefit. The direct cost to the public finances is estimated at around £5.5 billion. The cost of getting old is becoming a significant barrier to social inclusion and good health. A man in his 50's who is unemployed is twice as likely to suffer from respiratory illness or depression. Around half of all those claiming incapacity benefit are over 50. For some, this is a matter of life and death.
  Tackling pensioner poverty is a cause close to the Government's heart. It would be easier to address that problem if people could lead a full working life of opportunity up to retirement. The Government's new deal for the over-50s offers a start. Initiatives must tie in with local employers' needs. The regional development associations and learning and skills councils have a role to play in that.
  Age discrimination remains a root cause of economic inactivity, health inequalities and long-term social problems. It affects all Government policy and the work of nearly all Departments. At times, such discrimination is bizarre. One of the original inspirations for my Bill was a vet in Cornwall, Mr. Noel Stuart. He contacted me because he and others were being prevented from helping out at the height of the foot and mouth crisis, despite all their qualifications and wealth of experience—not least in knowing where the farms were, unlike some of those who were flown in from abroad. Mr. Stuart, who is also a part-time lollipop man, had his lollipop taken away when he reached 70 years of age. He did not have a good birthday.
  Many hon. Members will have read in this week's press that Britain's leading heart surgeon, Sir Magdi Yacoub, has been told by his hospital trust that he must retire, despite being considered to be at the peak of his powers and having performed more operations than any other surgeon in the world.
  When we face skills shortages, what is more absurd than writing off people on the ground of age alone? Given that we have an ageing but increasingly active population, this is becoming a farce.
  Ms Julia Drown: My hon. Friend talks about the dignity of older people. Does she agree that the Bill would also be a big boost to their families, to the carers of those who are a little more vulnerable and to those who volunteer to work with older people?
  Ms Atherton: I agree with my hon. Friend. Volunteers, carers, the wider community and the families of older people would all benefit from the expertise that a commission could provide.

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  Let us consider the evidence. B&Q found that, "You could do it if you B&Q it", whatever one's age, and that mature employees could offer skills and experience that made them an essential and highly productive part of the work force. Back in 1989, B&Q decided to dispel the myth by opening up a store staffed entirely by people over 50. Over the next six months, monitoring showed that profits were higher, staff turnover lower, the skills bases increased and customer satisfaction increased. B&Q has now gone further in updating its retirement policy by allowing employees to review their working life and decide what is best for them with reference to safety and their own situation. One employee in Swindon has now reached 86, and proves his worth, I am sure, on a daily basis.
  The problem of age discrimination in employment is complex, and I am sure that that will be one of the first issues addressed by the Minister. However, that does not mean that it cannot be tackled. There is a positive consensus on this. The Trades Union Congress and Confederation of British Industry recognise the debilitating effect of discrimination in employment. There is a genuine business case to be made for action and a commission can make that case. Because of demographic change, the problem can only get worse and a commission can be a means to publicise the issue, educate business and prepare society as a whole for the changes to come. The time is right to take action. The problem is made more complex by the link between employment and financial services. One of the problems facing older workers and their employers is that the costs of insurance can rise. That is particularly true for the voluntary sector.
  My hon. Friend the Member for Conwy (Mrs. Williams) cannot be here today, despite her support for the Bill. She raised with me the particular question of volunteers, so often the mainstay of charities. To work, however, they need insurance, and this can be an obstacle. Some charities are forced to turn away volunteers because they cannot get the necessary cover. It is especially important because while by 2006 there will be legislation to tackle age discrimination in employment, that may not apply to the voluntary sector.
  My legislation, article 13 of the EC treaty and the equal treatment in employment directive are certainly a step in the right direction, and the Government put much energy into negotiation of the directive. However, like many pieces of legislation that originate in Europe, implementation of much of the detail can be left up to member states. I very much hope that the Government will implement it in a way that is effective and serves its defined purpose. I know that consultation on the implementation of article 13 is imminent, and while the Government already have an age advisory board looking into this question, what better means than a commission to aid this process? It would play an invaluable role in preparing us all for this legislation.
  As I have said, my legislation on employment will not be enough. A study for the Joseph Rowntree Foundation showed that anti-ageist employment legislation in other countries was far more effective when working in conjunction with other policies. That is why there must be a comprehensive step forward which can consider a variety of solutions through legislation and otherwise.
  Arbitrary discrimination in financial services is one of the most galling forms of discrimination for older people. One case brought to my attention was of a man whose car
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  had broken down but he could not hire another, even in an emergency, because he was over 75. My own mother's travel insurance doubled overnight when she reached 70. I accept that there must be a gradual change, but such arbitrary jumps in the space of 24 hours are hard to take. I am aware of older people being denied access to telebanking or other modern innovations. I think that this is on the spurious, patronising grounds that they will not understand or will not be able to cope. I gather that one bank offers free insurance with a credit card as an incentive, but not, I gather, if someone is 65 or older. Such decisions are probably being made by smart-suited 20-somethings without the vision to look beyond the stereotype.
  Only the other week, I read of a new generation of surfers in my home county of Cornwall riding our wonderful waves in their 50s—"the silver surfers." But these same people are denied the chance to do their banking when surfing the net, despite the fact that, according to Microsoft, over-50s are signing onto the internet at twice the rate of those under 30.
  We now reach 50 with a healthy expectation to reach 80, but the doors of opportunity, in the workplace and elsewhere, are being shut in our faces. We know the excuses—that the market will regulate itself. There are companies that specialise in providing insurance or services to older people, but we know that that cannot be guaranteed. We also know that industries can rip people off. That is why in Ireland, the Equality Authority can investigate whole industries to root out discrimination. And that is why such a commission is needed in this country.
  A commission would help the Government to co-ordinate policy making; it would also focus our society on the need to deal with this problem. It is a philosophical argument whether legislation reflects or leads society's attitudes. I would say that on the issue of discrimination above all we recognise where Government and the law can make a difference. On race, gender and sexuality, there has always been a need for legislation to help undermine prejudice and intolerance. I say that with great certainty as a woman Member of Parliament.
  Changing attitudes to ageism is all the more necessary because it lags so far behind other discrimination in terms of public awareness. An evaluation of the Government's existing code of practice flags up how unrecognised age discrimination is by both employers and employees compared with other forms of discrimination. The Carnegie Trust has already used research by the Employers Forum to show that only 25 per cent. of employers knew of the Government's code and only 4 per cent. were aware of its purpose.
  One of the main arguments that I have had since I took up this Bill was about whether we should have one all-embracing commission to deal with all forms of discrimination. There are models for this, such as that in Northern Ireland, which is favoured by some in business and elsewhere, but I believe that we need an age discrimination commission here for us in this country, and I commend the Bill to the House.
  9.55 am
  Mr. Edward Leigh: I warmly congratulate the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton) on her good fortune in drawing

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  such a high place in the ballot and on the skilful and committed way in which she moved the Second Reading of her Bill this morning. I am sure that the whole House will want to congratulate her.
  I declare a personal interest. Having attained the age of 51, I fall within clause 2's definition of an older person.
  Mr. Swayne: Shocking.
  Mr. Leigh: It is written that
  "The silver-haired head is a crown of glory".
  The Book of Proverbs obviously had my hon. Friend the Member for New Forest, West (Mr. Swayne) in mind.
  Regard for age is a sign of a civilised society. Those who are elderly and have experience of life deserve respect. Those who have the wisdom that is born of the years deserve to be listened to. The hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne has done a service to the House in bringing the matter before us for debate. If her intention is to encourage people to have more regard for age and experience, her aim is entirely laudable, and is one that I and the whole House will share. Sadly, respect for age is not so great now as it was in the past; the House has a right to be concerned about that.
  We all know that having dealings with older people can be enriching for younger people. I am aware of a group of teenagers from one school who became involved in a local scheme to fit security locks to the windows of elderly people living in nearby council houses. The practical benefits of increasing home security are obvious, but perhaps more beneficial were the relationships that the young people developed with the older people. Long after the locks were fitted, some of the young people maintained friendships that they have continued to enjoy.
  We all know that there is discrimination in some aspects of employment, but from a purely commercial point of view, discriminating against older people is pure folly. Young adults do not have the experience of those who are older, and the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne has rightly mentioned the example of B&Q, which makes a virtue of employing older people because they bring people skills and expertise to the job. We are all aware of some worrying examples of discrimination in the NHS.
  The hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Mr. Burstow) mentioned on 15 May 2000 the case of Mrs. Marge Terry, a 91-year-old whose stay in hospital was characterised, according to her daughter, by neglect. Bedside tables were left dirty and sticky; bins were unemptied; medical records were badly maintained; and she was left in bedclothes soiled with blood. She waited four days to see a doctor after developing a serious chest infection and a further two days for an X-ray. Staff failed properly to assist her with eating, and even with the administration of medication. After four weeks in hospital, Mrs. Terry died. The NHS has rightly apologised for her appalling treatment, and the whole House should unreservedly condemn any organisation that holds older people in less respect or fails to give them the care they need.
  The House is united on those points, but what should be done? Is the Bill the right way to address the problem of lack of respect for age? I do not believe that it is the
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  way to achieve the hon. Lady's laudable aims. Laws should be made only when they are necessary to achieve a result, and when they can achieve that result. I fear that the Bill fails the second test.
  It is good that we are holding this debate and that we raise these issues. That is our responsibility, but not all the problems in society can be addressed by legislation. Surely the House must be able to recognise a problem— in this case, a serious problem in society—and draw attention to it, but without concluding that it must always legislate.
  Mr. Win Griffiths: I hope that the hon. Gentleman will develop that argument. He says that the Bill does not address the laudable aim that he supports. Why is that, and what would he propose to ensure that we achieve the objectives of my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton)?
  Mr. Leigh: That is precisely what I hope to do in the next five or 10 minutes.
  The answer to the problems of age discrimination is not further heavy regulation to enforce equality. A commission for age equality would simply be a statutory busybody. Its job would be to argue for more legislation and regulation.
  Dr. Desmond Turner: Following the hon. Gentleman's logic, are we to assume that he would advocate the abolition of the Commission for Racial Equality?
  Mr. Leigh: No, I would not advocate the abolition of the Commission for Racial Equality. There is a difference, as I shall explain later in my remarks.
  Jim Knight: The hon. Gentleman suggests that the measure will impose extra regulation on business. In essence, the Bill would set up a commission to advise the Government and society about a problem whose existence the hon. Gentleman acknowledges. The commission would then point out whether regulation for, or self-regulation by, industry was necessary. The measure does not propose a great regulatory burden.
  Mr. Leigh: The whole raison d'etre of the commission, if it is to have any point at all, is to lobby the Government to exercise their powers of compulsion. The commission would fail to justify its existence if it did not do so. It would result in more regulation and compulsion and would not further the interests of elderly people.
  I can illustrate that point with an example given by the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne. She said that during the worst of the foot and mouth crisis, vets aged over 70 were told that they could not assist because they were too old. She went on to explain, however, that the rule was subsequently changed so that they were allowed to help. Surely that proves that a commission such as she proposes is unnecessary. It appears that pressure and old-fashioned common sense were enough; the unreasonable age restriction was removed without the need for a statutory commission.
  Mr. Roger Berry: Does the hon. Gentleman recall that he deployed the same arguments to

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  oppose legislation to secure civil rights for disabled people? Given that his Government then introduced such legislation, has he changed his view on that matter?
  Mr. Leigh: I have not changed my view on that matter. There is a regrettable tendency for the House to identify problems of discrimination. Discrimination is wrong. Discrimination on the grounds of religion, race, disability or age is wrong, but I am prepared to have the courage of my convictions and point out to the House that sometimes the best way to remove ills in society is not necessarily through legislation. That is my view, and I believe that it is important that someone puts it forward—although it may sometimes be politically difficult to do so.
  The case to which I referred shows the way forward.
  Several hon. Members rose—
  Mr. Leigh: I should like to make a little more progress. Many Members want to speak, so I do not want to hog all the time.
  Pressure from the public and from politicians, combined with sound reasoning and common sense, should ensure that, where change is needed on policies and practices that disadvantage older people, change is made. Pressure comes through naturally in society. Good sense asserts itself. We do not always need statutory commissions.
  Ms Debra Shipley: The hon. Gentleman says that the whole House agrees that something is wrong. There are many examples of that, and numerous Bills have been introduced, yet it astounds me that the opinion of some people in business, health, leisure facilities and a range of activities has not been changed to the point that they adopt good practice so that they do not discriminate. Surely, as legislators, we have a responsibility to society to require them to adopt good practice; we should legislate and impose our values. As the hon. Gentleman has said, we have good, shared values.
  Mr. Leigh: That would be correct if we were identifying an obvious evil to which society and the marketplace were obviously failing to respond. However, I hope to show as I develop my remarks—if I am allowed to do so—that society and the marketplace are responding to the evil of age discrimination. They are responding because it is evidently against the good interest of many companies to discriminate against older people. Good sense asserts itself in society.
  As I was saying earlier, the commission's whole reason for existence will and must be to lobby the Government to exercise their powers of compulsion. A commission will naturally look for ways to justify its existence. It will always be able to come up with schemes, proposals and plans for new legislation. Why else need it exist? The likelihood is, however, that those schemes will merely consume time and public money without really dealing with the problem.
  Organisations such as Age Concern, the Association of Retired and People over 50 and Help the Aged, as well as providing practical assistance to older people, play a major role in campaigning on their behalf. Such organisations can continue to work on specific cases,
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  where tailored solutions can be negotiated to benefit older people, but wide-ranging statutory intervention is not the answer.
  In the NHS, major issues relating to mistreatment of the elderly are the responsibility of the Secretary of State for Health. If there is a problem, that is his responsibility. Surely he does not need a commission to tell him that there is a problem. He simply needs to ensure that staff in hospitals are instructed to ensure adequate cleaning and high-quality care for all patients, irrespective of their age—that relates to the case of Mrs. Terry and others. Where that is not done—regardless of the age of the patient—those responsible must be disciplined. It does not take an age equality commission to work that out: the Secretary of State is already responsible. He has all the powers at his disposal to sort out the problem.
  Ms Atherton: The hon. Gentleman cited various organisations that represent older people. Is he aware that all those organisations are calling for an age equality commission?
  Mr. Leigh: I should be amazed if they were not. They are campaigning organisations, so they would naturally support such a proposal. I was not suggesting otherwise. I was pointing out that they are effective campaigning organisations; they are having an effect. They are changing values in society and in the marketplace, so I doubt that it is necessary to create a statutory commission to put their ideas into effect.
  Peter Bottomley: The House will understand my hon. Friend's point about the law helping things to be effected rather than always guaranteeing that they will happen. In the same way, many things are crimes, but a third of young men have been convicted of criminal offences by the age of 30, so legislation is not always totally effective. Under clause 1(2)(b), the commission would comment on proposed legislation, so his argument could be used to justify the commission and to ensure that, when Ministers propose legislation, they take account of the needs of the elderly. For example, instead of requiring elderly people to requalify for driving licences, why not wait until they are just as dangerous as they would have been when they passed the test at 17?
  Mr. Leigh: I have often had doubts about allowing people to drive at the age of 17, but I shall leave that to one side.
  Clause 1(2) is interesting—I was about to deal with it—because it would allow the commission to advise the Secretary of State on all matters relating to age discrimination. It states that the commission should scrutinise any proposed legislation and that it could advise the Secretary of State to issue detailed guidelines on schemes to be imposed on
  "businesses, voluntary organisations and public sector organisations".
  It could also propose policies on age issues not just for employment, but for
  "the provision of goods and services"
  and even
  "in the wider community."
  So the commission could propose intervention in the nooks and crannies of everyday life. It could propose new legislation and regulation for every aspect of

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  society—even private contracts would come within its purview. I seriously question whether that would improve the lot of the elderly.
  The hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne did not deal with the point that, in the same way that the Equal Opportunities Commission has to act to defend the interests of men, the age equality commission would have to act to defend the interests of young people. If the provision of goods and services were to be within the commission's remit, it would come under pressure to end the cut-price deals available to pensioners because such deals inevitably discriminate against those who are young.
  For example, tourist venues often offer low entrance fees to old-age pensioners and those aged over 60, and there is nothing wrong with that—indeed, I welcome it—but surely it is discrimination. That could come to an end if age equality legislation covered the provision of goods and services.
  A young man could launch a test case against English Heritage. Its annual membership for those aged over 60 is £20 a year; for those under that age it is £31 a year. The young man could bring a test case and argue that he was discriminated against purely on the basis of his age. No doubt he would win that case because he was being discriminated against on the basis of his age.
  Mr. Barry Gardiner: The logic of the hon. Gentleman's argument escapes me. Surely if he is saying that that is a clear case of discrimination and that the commission would point it out, he should support a commission that would stop such discrimination. If the discrimination were against younger people, it should end, just as though it were against older people.
  Mr. Leigh: With respect to the hon. Gentleman—I do hold him in very great respect—he does not understand what the Bill would achieve. Surely if the Bill were to achieve anything, we would have to introduce more rigorous legislation to end discrimination against people on the ground of age. If we introduced such legislation, young people would inevitably bring test cases to argue that they were discriminated against precisely for the reasons that I have given: many cut-price deals, especially for tourist venues, are available only to older people.
  To counter the inevitable absurdity created by age equality legislation, it would no doubt be proposed that positive discrimination should be required. No one could deny that, and it would create the very serious difficulties that I have mentioned. That leads me to question whether the cure offered by the Bill would end up being worse than the disease.
  Saga is a holiday company that provides services exclusively to those over 50—a marvellous arrangement—yet legislation that outlawed age discrimination in the provision of goods and service could catch that company. No one has instructed those who run our historic houses to offer reduced admission for OAPs; they have decided to do so themselves. A commission was not needed to instruct them to reduce admission charges for older people.
  The marketplace—I hesitate to use that word—has acted in a way that benefits older people. Over the years, Saga has decided to reduce the age limit for those who can benefit from its holidays—at one time it was over 60;
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  now it is 50. Legislation did not require Saga to make that change. Such decisions are best left to individuals and companies.
  I am very concerned about the idea of the commission leaning on the Secretary of State and urging him to pass new laws on age discrimination, especially if its mandate is as wide as that suggested in the Bill. Such a commission would be a statutory busybody, looking for ways to interfere. It would spend its time telling the Secretary of State how to make new laws on age discrimination. It would tell him how any new laws that he proposed might affect age discrimination. It would write endless guidelines for him to foist on business, voluntary organisations and the public sector. It would meddle with the market in the kind of draconian ways that—dare I say?—only well-meaning liberals can dream up.
  In my view that heavy-handed, top-down approach to delicate social issues just will not work, especially when it involves new legislation. Such a law would be a clumsy instrument, which could not cope with all the particulars of life. The law can never be drafted to take account of the possible exceptions and qualifications that accompany the basic principle of respecting age. That is my point. We have the basic principle that we should respect age. We cannot devise legislation, however well meaning, to take account of all life's complexities to implement that respect properly.
  Ms Drown: Is the hon. Gentleman perhaps implying that the House should never pass any legislation? [Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman laughs, but perhaps that brings into question why he is here in the first place. No one would argue that those discounts should end, and I hope that no hon. Member would argue that children should be allowed to become soldiers, for example. Age barriers are not the issue. Is not the distinction one between good legislation and bad legislation? Should it not be within our capacity to produce legislation that is not top heavy? The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say that we need to ensure that legislation is not too burdensome or top heavy, but is it not right that if we could create the right remit for the commission we would serve our constituents well?
  Mr. Leigh: There always has to be a balance. Of course, sometimes the House has to legislate, but dare I say that the House legislates too much? One of the things I have tried to do, especially on Friday mornings since I have been a Member of Parliament, is to try to stop the House regulating so much that it defeats its laudable aims.
  Mr. Paul Burstow: I have listened to the hon. Gentleman developing his argument and he is doing the House a service by providing a clear and stark difference between the Bill's proponents and those who do not support it. He referred specifically to relying on the good common sense of employers to employ older people, but can he tell us over what period he would seek to evaluate whether that common sense had made a difference and at what point legislation would be necessary?
  Mr. Leigh: That is an unanswerable question, so perhaps the hon. Gentleman has made a very skilful intervention. I do not know the answer, but we have to take a common-sense point of view. Clearly, if there were

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  an obvious evil in society, if the huge proportion of companies were making no progress on the matter, if people were being thrown out of their jobs cruelly and unnecessarily at the age of 55 and if no company was introducing proposals to employ older people, perhaps the House would come to a view. It would, however, have to come to a carefully considered view and introduce legislation to ensure that the House's aim of combating age discrimination was met without imposing heavy and unnecessary burdens on business; otherwise, it might defeat its laudable objectives.
  Mr. Kelvin Hopkins: The hon. Gentleman suggests that generalised burdensome legislation would be introduced. However, surely the purpose of the Bill is to advise the Government on specific legislation on specific problems. Each problem will be considered carefully and our Government would certainly not introduce legislation that had not been fully thought through and that was not carefully targeted. [Interruption.]
  Mr. Leigh: The hon. Gentleman has a lot of faith in government, but the House has already given its reaction to his view. Let us consider what the commission would do. Clause 1(3) offers the prospect of its inventing lengthy, costly and time-wasting consultations, and clause 1(5) would enable the Secretary of State to spend taxpayers' money on staffing the commission. The powers that would be given to the commission are wide ranging and vague.
  There is another problem with the Bill. Its drafting is unclear and imprecise. Even the definitions of equality and discrimination are confusing and do not appear to draw on any existing definitions of the concepts.
  Richard Ottaway: There is another problem and I would be interested to learn how my hon. Friend would tackle it. My constituency is in south London where there is full employment. Many elderly people want to work, but some employers have a mindset that means they do not employ elderly people. If we stick to the principles that my hon. Friend has enunciated, that mindset will never be addressed. How does he think that it could best be addressed?
  Mr. Leigh: Not through a statutory commission is the short answer. The mindset of a statutory commission is always geared towards introducing new regulations and new legislation.
  My personal philosophy is to approach society's problems by arguing that we must eventually rely on people's innate good sense to come to the fore to address any evils that exist. I do not believe that one cures evils in society—particularly those that are difficult to identify—specifically by legislation. It is not the right vehicle. If my hon. Friend disagrees with me, I am sorry.
  Dr. Phyllis Starkey: The hon. Gentleman has made great play of the need to use common sense and practical experience to deal with discrimination. I invite him to consider the gender balance as represented by the Conservative and Liberal Democrat Members present and to compare it with the gender balance among Labour Members. Can he then say that it
  582
  is perfectly acceptable simply to rely on the good sense of people in political parties to arrive at a better representation and that legislation is not necessary?
  Mr. Leigh: It is a matter of great sadness to many of us that more women are not selected as Conservative candidates. Unfortunately, the women who dominate selection procedures often discriminate against women candidates. [Interruption.] I am sorry, but it is perfectly true. My personal view—I do not want to expand on this because you would rule me out of order, Madam Deputy Speaker—is that the use of quotas is the wrong way to deal with the problem. I believe in equality of opportunity, not in enforcing quotas on selection committees or anyone else.
  Mr. Andrew Rosindell: My hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, South (Richard Ottaway) made a serious point about the employment of elderly people. Does my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh) agree that perhaps a better way of approaching that problem is to use the tax system to price older people back into work by allowing them to pay reduced taxes? That would price people back into work rather than allowing discrimination to continue.
  Mr. Leigh: That may be a possible way forward.
  Let me briefly consider the American experience, because it is quite interesting. The Bill proposes that the age equality commission should advise the Secretary of State on issues, guidelines and perhaps legislation; but, in the next five years, there may be European Union intervention on the matter. The United States has had an Act outlawing discrimination in employment since 1967 when Congress passed the Age Discrimination in Employment Act.
  The jurisprudence surrounding the 1967 law is described by Richard Epstein, professor of law at the university of Chicago, as complex and formidable. He is a leading critic of the use of the blunt instrument of the law to deal with delicate matters of discrimination. He has criticised the decision of Congress to pass the Act and said that before passing the Bill:
  "Congress made no effort to understand the business reasons for practices that it rendered illegal. Instead without asking why, it offered only the blanket judgment that discrimination on the basis of age is 'arbitrary' and should for that reason be forbidden. The upshot of its position is that categorical judgments are thereby rendered illegal, and firms are now required, under a presumption of distrust, to make individualised decisions about ability independent of their knowledge of age."
  I believe that older people make a unique contribution to the work of any employer, and this is my answer to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, South (Richard Ottaway). Employers that pass over superior older workers in favour of inferior younger ones are simply putting themselves at a disadvantage. Intelligent employers will realise that and will amend their practices accordingly.
  Of course, we must be realistic. Some employers will always persist in bad practice in this sphere, just as they will always persist in bad practice in others. However, in the market as a whole, the pressure to provide the best products and services is the most effective pressure that can be brought to bear. I apologise to the House for giving such a classic Hayekian analysis of the situation.
  Peter Bottomley: When I was the Minister responsible for health and safety, I discovered that it took 200 years

  583
  from the time it was found that vitamin C helped people to avoid scurvy to the time that people were required to feed crews on ships with the food that prevented it. Is 200 years the sort of period that my hon. Friend has in mind?
  Mr. Leigh: That is a singularly inappropriate example. As it happens, I know a bit about naval history. Following the experience of Captain Cook, it is remarkable how quickly good practice spread throughout the fleet. I apologise for digressing, but I was asked about this. It was obvious that scurvy was a fatal disease that seriously inhibited the fleet's ability to sail around the world. Sailors were therefore given lemons, and that good practice spread like wildfire throughout the fleet. Legislation might not have been passed. The 18th century House of Commons did not operate like that. The hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne was not here at the time of Pitt, the Earl of Chatham, to suggest that there should be a scurvy quality commission or something of the sort. We did not need it.
  Mr. Hopkins rose—
  Mr. Leigh: I am enjoying myself so I shall give way again.
  Mr. Hopkins: The hon. Gentleman keeps making the point that we do not need legislation to encourage good practice. However, there are many examples in recent decades in which legislation has made a significant difference. For example, the legislation on the compulsory wearing of seat belts and crash helmets and the serious laws restricting drinking and driving have saved countless thousands of lives. Even though it is rational to wear a seat belt or a crash helmet and not to drink and drive, people still did not wear them or continued to drink and drive. I am afraid that the law was necessary to make people act sensibly.
  Mr. Leigh: Even if that were true, there must be a difference between matters such as the wearing of seat belts or a crash helmet, which relate to health and personal safety, and seeking to impose a whole new series of burdens, controls and regulations on the wider business community. If people wear seat belts or crash helmets, it as certain as night follows day that they are safer. It is not immediately apparent that legislation such as this Bill necessarily improves matters. Leaving aside the fact that it would impose an extra burden on business, it is not obvious that it is the right thing to do.
  Mr. Mark Prisk: Does my hon. Friend agree that drink driving laws were on the statute book for more than 10 years before the statistics reflected the fact that it had become socially unacceptable to drink and drive? Is it not that model to which we should be looking, in which each individual plays a role in changing what is acceptable? Simply passing laws is not the best approach.
  Mr. Leigh: It is dangerous for the House to get ahead of public opinion. Of course it has to lead public opinion, but to get too far ahead and to impose its will on a society
  584
  that is not ready for it can cause distortions and difficulties and does not necessarily meet the laudable aims that we want to achieve.
  Mr. Edward O'Hara: On public opinion, is the hon. Gentleman aware of the Age Concern Gallup poll which shows that 73 per cent. of the public agree that it should be illegal to discriminate against someone because of their age? As for burdens on business, did he not hear what my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton) said about the B&Q experience? It makes eminent business sense to employ older people.
  Mr. Leigh: Exactly. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman heard me say that it makes eminent business sense for B&Q and other companies to employ older people because they are wiser, have better people skills and are more experienced, but it is not necessary to legislate to achieve that laudable aim.
  Dr. John Pugh: I am trying hard to understand the hon. Gentleman. He said that it is the duty of the House to lead public opinion, but that it should not be ahead of public opinion. I find it difficult to understand how it is possible to lead without being ahead. Perhaps he can clarify that.
  Mr. Leigh: The hon. Gentleman is making a semantic point; he knows perfectly well what I am trying to say. The House cannot get too far ahead of public opinion.
  There has to be a balance. Some employers, possibly for good business reasons, have younger staff. Others, for equally good business reasons, have older staff. Within that system, individual cases of disappointed expectations, such as those cited by the Bill's supporters, are not necessarily a condemnation of the marketplace as a whole. Workers tend to move to jobs where they are most highly valued. Those employers who refuse to employ older people because they do not value them are missing out, and employers who value older employees will benefit instead. That freedom of contract should not be interfered with in the blunt way that anti-discrimination provisions do If the law interferes, it will not succeed in doing everything that proponents of such legislation might wish.
  Even after 30 years of the United States Age Discrimination in Employment Act, the law does not guarantee every worker a job with the employer of his or her choice at the desired wage. That is not possible, but it is the implied wish of those who support such anti-discrimination measures. The more the state attempts to achieve that, the more intrusive and coercive its attempts will become.
  Mr. Swayne: It would have been legitimate for the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton) to introduce this measure so that we could scrutinise and weigh up whether it would achieve its objective. What she has done instead is to come up with the idea of handing over the task, which is rightly the task of Members of Parliament, to a commission that will lobby, agitate and introduce legislation. She thinks that our role

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  should be done by someone else—the great and the good, the big cheeses or whoever—but is not that an attempt to do us out of a job?
  Mr. Leigh: I agree that society as a whole can right some of the wrongs. Members of Parliament and campaigning organisations can help. It is not necessary to have a statutory commission.
  It is also important to recognise that employers may impose age restrictions for good reasons, such as health and safety, or for reasons relating to service targets that are essential to the survival of that firm. There may be good reasons for practices that some people say are based in discrimination. If such restrictions are justifiable, they should not be interfered with. It is also important to recognise that some age restrictions may be so self-evidently sensible that they have to be imposed even though the same restrictions will eventually affect those who impose them.
  Age discrimination is not like sex or race discrimination. A man cannot become a biological woman and women of one race cannot become people of another race, but all young people become old people. Either the restrictions that employers impose make sense, in which case they will be prepared to submit themselves to the same restrictions when their time comes, or they do not, in which case the employers should recognise the need for change.
  Respect for age is important both morally and practically. The House is doing society a service by continuing to draw attention to examples of injustice suffered by older people, and we should continue to do so. Legislative intervention, however, is not the answer. In particular, an age equality commission would be ineffective and possibly damaging because it would be unlikely to recognise the complex and varied reasons why age sometimes requires different treatment. Some suppliers of goods and services discriminate positively in favour of elderly people, providing price discounts and special services that are not available to young people. Other service providers may impose upper age limits for good health reasons. I am afraid, therefore, that I cannot support the Bill. I hope that my hon. Friends will also oppose it.
  10.36 am
  Linda Perham: I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton) on introducing the Bill. I welcome the age equality commission, which will advise the Government on age discrimination issues in relation to older people. In particular, I welcome the provisions in paragraphs (C) and (d) of clause 1(2) on the commission's role in preparing detailed guidelines on the implementation of schemes to address age issues for businesses and voluntary and public sector organisations, and the promotion of equal treatment for the provision of goods and services.
  I am especially pleased to contribute to the debate because I am secretary of the all-party group on ageing and older people and a founder member of a group called Equal Rights on Age, formed three years ago by Members of Parliament and age campaigning groups including Age Concern, Help the Aged, Association of Retired and Persons over 50, the Carnegie Third Age Programme, Third Age Employment Network, trade union representatives, academics and journalists.
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  In February 1998, my Employment (Age Discrimination in Advertisements) Bill led to the introduction of a code of practice on age diversity in employment and to the Government requiring that Employment Service jobcentres should no longer accept upper-age restrictions on vacancies notified by employers. That Bill was the ninth attempt in 15 years to get an age discrimination measure on the statute book. Since then, there have been five attempts, including two by my hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Lawrie Quinn), to introduce an age equality commission.
  As my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne said, age discrimination could affect any one of us and it is just as dehumanising and offensive as another form of discrimination. It should never be assumed that because someone has reached a certain age they are unable to perform a task or to carry on working and that they are inferior to younger people.
  Our own and past ages bear compelling witness to the achievements of older people. Sir Winston Churchill, one of my predecessors in part of my constituency, became Prime Minister at the age of 65, which is still the retirement age for men. Queen Elizabeth I, one of our most successful and popular rulers, was in her 70th year when she died. Two of our distinguished female parliamentarians, my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mrs. Dunwoody) and Baroness Boothroyd, have passed their 70th birthdays. There is also that other battling baroness, Barbara Castle, who is 91. Two recently retired colleagues, Sir Edward Heath and Tony Benn, both of whom served more than 50 years in this place, are 85 and 76 respectively. There are 343 Members who are over 50, including me, and I understand that there are six whose age could not be determined. Perhaps they would not give it away.
  Members may recall the recent national outrage at the suggestion that Jimmy Young should stop spinning discs and interviewing the great and the good because he is 80. For those of us who were let off early yesterday evening, the rock star Mick Jagger was in a television documentary about his life. He is 58 and still singing, rocking and rolling and living life to the full.
  On a more serious note, a constituent rang me yesterday to say that his daughter's consultant psychiatrist can no longer treat her, as he must retire at 65, and my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne referred to Sir Magdi Yacoub having to retire this week. The Third Age Employment Network reports that the three leading New York firemen who gave their lives on 11 September were 71, 63 and 54.
  A report entitled "Third Age Entrepreneurs", published in August by Barclays, found that 15 per cent. of all business start-ups in England and Wales are by people over 50, which represents a 50 per cent. increase in the past 10 years. Of those business people, 17 per cent. made the move because of redundancy. Millions of ordinary people in all walks of life are, like them, struggling to seek and keep work.
  When I introduced my Bill almost four years ago, with the enthusiastic support of Age Concern, I received hundreds of letters from people who felt that they had been discriminated against because of their age. Some upper limits were as low as 30 and some job age ranges were advertised arbitrarily as 25 to 40. That still happens today. The Chartered Institute of Personnel and

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  Development survey of January 2001 said that almost a quarter of workers surveyed agreed that employers are not interested in recruiting or promoting people over 40.
  A report published this summer, commissioned by the Department for Education and Employment and entitled "Age Diversity—Summary of Research Findings", found that nine out of 10 older people believe that employers discriminate against older people in at least one aspect of employment. The summary outlines preliminary findings from four research projects to evaluate the impact of the code of practice, on age diversity in employment.
  Clearly, I welcome the introduction of the code of practice as a result of my Bill. There is evidence that it has had an impact, and the departmental submission to the Education and Employment Committee report of February 2001 refers to
  "promising signs of change with more companies orientating their policies towards age diversity"—
  and
  "The proportion of companies taking age into consideration when selecting the best candidate for a job had almost halved just six months after the code was issued".
  In evidence to the same investigation, Age Concern said that
  "the Code of Practice has had an important role in changing the behaviour and attitudes of employers".
  On making further progress in tackling age discrimination, although I regret that the Labour Government have not carried through declarations made in opposition by the Minister for Pensions and others, I welcome the initiatives undertaken in the past four years to improve the lives of older people and, in particular, to address employment and health discrimination on the ground of age. Some were mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne.
  The age positive campaign, which started this summer, aims to change attitudes to help employers to recognise the benefits of an age-diverse work force. The age advisory group was set up last year and the better government for older people programme aims to increase access to education, information technology, libraries and other resources.
  The new deal for 50-plus has been introduced, the inter-ministerial group on older people has been set up, and the project on active ageing led to the publication in April 2000 of "Winning the Generation Game: Improving Opportunities for People Aged 50 to 65 in Work and Community Activity". It made 75 recommendations, including establishing a champion for older people—that is my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions—and affirming that age discrimination legislation must be introduced if the code of practice is shown to be ineffective. The national framework for older people addresses age discrimination in health and social care.
  In my years of campaigning on age discrimination, and despite the Government's achievements for older people, I am still persuaded that legislation is the only answer. I know that the Government want to consult widely with employers and others on implementing the European Union equal treatment in employment directive, which must be put in effect by December 2006, but I agree with
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  Age Concern that an age equality commission, which the Bill would establish, would take UK legislation beyond the directive's stipulations and address age discrimination in all its forms. The commission could act as a regulatory body.
  There are examples of equality commissions in countries near and far, including Ireland, the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. When I visited New Zealand on a Commonwealth Parliamentary Association delegation last year and met representatives of the Human Rights Commission, I was struck by how far behind we are in legislating on age discrimination. New Zealand passed a human rights Act in 1993 and it covers discrimination in the provision of goods and services—an issue to which the Bill refers.
  I welcome the Government's commitment, announced in a written answer on 21 November, to issue two consultation documents on combating age discrimination to prepare for the EU directive, but I hope that the Bill will be given a fair wind. The Government obviously think that they need time to address the issues, but time is not on the side of older people. We need the commission now.
  10.47 am
  Richard Ottaway: I congratulate the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton) on choosing this subject and the effective way in which she introduced her Bill. Like the hon. Member for Ilford, North (Linda Perham), I have introduced such a Bill—it was one of the 15 she referred to.
  I do not have any trouble with a group of people sitting around and advising the Government on age discrimination, so I disagree with my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh), who is a political and personal friend. We have disagreed on that approach for the past 25 years. The hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne has introduced the Bill to set up a commission to advise the Government on helping aged people, but, for reasons that I shall describe, as the years go by the tables will turn. Employers will approach the commission, rather than the other way round, and say, "Give me the aged." That is why I must part company with my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough.
  I have no doubt that there is a problem, as 40 per cent. of the country are aged over 50 and a wealth of talent out there is being ignored. Teachers, dentists, professionals, engineers—you name it—in their 50's and 60's could make a huge contribution to the British economy. The nation has invested in that talent and wealth of expertise over the years, but it is not being fully developed.
  As I said in my intervention, we cannot rely on market forces. I gave the example of south London, where there is full employment. Employers tell me that their biggest problem is that they cannot get the skills they want, yet we know that such people are out there. There is a mindset that must be broken.
  This morning, I picked up the weekly law supplement in The Times, which, I am told, is the best place for lawyers to find a job.
  The average lawyer qualifies at about 25. Eighty per cent. of the jobs in the supplement call for lawyers with fewer than five years' qualification. That means that 80 per cent. of the jobs advertised in one of the nation's

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  leading law supplements are seeking people younger than 30. As a lawyer, I know that there are many other professional people who could make a huge input. However, they are not even being sought. At the same time, they are needed. That is the mindset that has to be broken.
  Civil servants are obliged to retire at 60. Firefighters must retire at 55. There are good reasons for these retirement ages, but there must be flexibility. As the author John McLaren wrote in The Sunday Times last weekend, many people have a surge of energy in their mid-40s. They make some money and go into semi-retirement, and suddenly in their 50s they discover that they are bored and want to return to the workplace.
  I query whether the commission is needed in the way in which it would be set up because it is just dawning on the developed world, including the G7 countries, that there is a rapid growth in the ageing population and a shrinking of the younger population. That must be coupled with the fact that pension systems throughout the developed world are failing All the major political parties hang on to the notion that somehow we can still give a funded pension to elderly people. When the Conservative party raised the issue at the general election, saying, "I am not sure that the system is working", we were attacked politically. However, we may have made good sense politically.
  I do not think that the pension system, as it is structured, can continue in the United Kingdom for much longer. Private pensions are failing. We have the debacle of Equitable Life. I was listening to people on the radio this morning who have company pensions that are not fulfilling the promises that were made about them by their employers.
  At the same time, life expectancy is increasing. When that is set against failing pension provision for the elderly, a shrinking working population and an increasing elderly population, it is clear that something must be done.
  The next society in which we shall work will be technology based and borderless. It is easy to send out technology. Work will be mobile, even now people can sit in different places to do their work. There will be two groups—the committed under-50s and part-time, mobile, flexible and knowledge-society workers who are older than 50.
  Unless there is a body that addresses the moving patterns of society and the way that we work, we shall get things wrong. We live in a fiercely competitive society. Other countries will not sit back and accommodate us. As I have said, we are borderless. We must produce the best out of our work force.
  The debate is useful. If there is not a commission, an organisation or a group of people that asks Ministers how their legislation addresses changing employment patterns in our society, we shall be at a disadvantage. For that reason, I hope that the Bill is given a fair wind.
  10.54 am
  Mr. Roger Berry: It is a pleasure to support the Bill that has been introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton), who I congratulate on her speech and on leading a campaign that has massive support both inside the House and outside.
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  As always, I am struck by the arguments deployed by the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh). When the case was put for legislation to address discrimination on the ground of race, it is interesting that we were told to leave the matter to the free market, to education and to persuasion. When the argument was advanced that legislation should be introduced to prevent discrimination on the ground of gender, again we were told to leave the matter to the free market, to education and to persuasion. More recently, I recall clearly the argument about discrimination on the ground of disability. We were told by the hon. Gentleman that we should leave the matter to the free market, to education and to persuasion.
  We cannot leave everything to the free market if we wish seriously to represent our constituents in this place. If the free market solved all the problems to which I have referred, there would never be a successful legal challenge to discrimination on the grounds of race, gender and disability. If the free market is so wonderful, why is it that there are successful legal challenges under the legislation that the House has put on to the statute book?
  It is also said, "All right, drop the argument about the free market. Education and persuasion will prevail." That means that we cannot legislate and we must try merely to persuade people. The House has spent many years trying to change things merely by education and persuasion, initially in terms of race, gender and disability. We came to the conclusion that that was not enough. Therefore, the House decided to legislate.
  I tell the hon. Member for Gainsborough that legislation on disability has been the major impetus for further education and persuasion throughout the country. Anyone who believes that the progress that has been made in recent years to tackle discrimination on the ground of disability could have come about without legislation, which a Conservative Government were forced to introduce, is seriously misled.
  Mr. Peter Duncan: Does the hon. Gentleman accept that we are trying to achieve change? The codes of practice that were introduced in 1999 represented an attempt to create change. The following evidence was given to the Employment Sub-Committee when it conducted an inquiry:
  "The wave 2 survey indicates some promising signs of change with more companies orientating their policies towards age diversity."
  Does that not indicate that there is change on the way?
  Mr. Berry: I entirely agree that such measures are helpful and have been helpful. That is in stark contrast to leaving things to the free market, which the hon. Member for Gainsborough was talking about. However, I shall argue that we need to go further.
  The House has legislated to tackle discrimination on the grounds of race, gender and disability, and I am convinced that it will legislate to address discrimination on the ground of age. It is no more justifiable to deny someone a job, for which they have the necessary skills and experience, on the ground of age rather than on the basis of race, gender and disability.
  When we talk of equal opportunities, we are not saying that people should be given unfair advantages. We are saying that unfair disadvantages should be removed. The argument is as powerful in terms of age as it is in relation to race, gender and disability.

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  There is overwhelming support for the Bill in the House. My hon. Friend the Member for Ilford, North (Linda Perham) has campaigned effectively on the issue for many years. She said that there have been 14 previous attempts to introduce a private Member's Bill to deal with it, one of which was her own. Last year, there was a vote on the issue. My hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Lawrie Quinn) introduced the Age Discrimination Bill, to which the Bill before us bears a remarkable resemblance. Only a few words differ. The Bill is an important improvement on its predecessor but essentially the proposal is the same. On 12 July 2000, the House divided on Second Reading of the Bill of my hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby, with 190 Members voting in favour and seven against.
  Kali Mountford: Name them.
  Mr. Berry: The two Members who were Tellers for the Noes were in the Chamber this morning, and I think that it is legitimate to refer to them. The first Teller against was the shadow Leader of the House, the right hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Mr. Forth), who is not in his place. The other Teller for the Noes was—surprise, surprise—the hon. Member for New Forest, West (Mr. Swayne) who intervened on my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne at the beginning of our debate. Those Tellers counted the votes of the seven Conservative Members who voted against the Bill that was introduced last year. However, 190 Members voted for it.
  I checked the names of Members who sponsored that Bill 12 months ago. I am heartened because, of the seven Labour Members who did so, six are now Ministers or Parliamentary Private Secretaries. That is an extremely good omen, although not necessarily, I suspect, for those of us who are sponsoring my hon. Friend's Bill. I am sure that the Government want to give the Bill a fair wind, given the strength of support for similar proposals in the past. Early-day motion 178 has been tabled on the issue; it is one of the most popular early-day motions before the House in this Session, and was signed by 157 Members, 118 of whom are Government Members.
  The Bill has cross-party support, and I pay tribute to the Conservative Members who back its proposals, notwithstanding the opposition of the hon. Member for Gainsborough, the shadow Leader of the House and the hon. Member for New Forest, West. I acknowledge and welcome Opposition support, but I draw the Minister's attention to the substantial support of Government Members, of which he is well aware.
  Mr. Leigh: Is that a threat?
  Mr. Berry: I never ever threaten people, and certainly not in public.
  The Bill also enjoys substantial support from organisations and individuals outside the House. Reference has been made to Age Concern, which supports the Bill, as does the Association of Retired and Persons over 50, Help the Aged and the National Pensioners Convention. Not surprisingly, the Lobby to End Age Discrimination supports the Bill. Clearly, such an
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  organisation would do so; it held a seminar in the Palace of Westminster last year, in which Members from all parties participated. The seminar was part of the continuing campaign to secure action in which many of my hon. Friends have been involved.
  The Bill is popular because it is necessary. Like every other Member, I have constituents over 50 who have difficulty finding or retaining a job, and find it hard to hire a car and access credit and other services. It is not just that they have difficulties; they believe that those difficulties arise because they suffer discrimination on the ground of age. They are right; the evidence is plain for all to see. In March this year, as has been said, the Education Sub-Committee produced a report on age discrimination. The submission from the then Department for Education and Employment drew attention to a survey conducted six months after the code of practice was issued, which found that one in five older people believed that they had suffered discrimination in their current job or a job application because of age.
  If one in five people believed that they had suffered discrimination at work on the grounds of race, gender or disability, we would not be having further debate on the matter in the House. When one in five people believe that they are suffering discrimination on the ground of age, the House must respond seriously and effectively. In their submission to the Select Committee, the Government pointed out that in the past 20 years employment of the over-50s has fallen dramatically—a point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne in her excellent opening speech.
  Few of the over-50s who find themselves out of work say, "This is good; I think I'll retire." The evidence is that many people are leaving work involuntarily before the state pension age. In 1979, 84 per cent. of men aged between 50 and the state pension age were in employment; by 1997, that figure had fallen to 67 per cent. Did people have a sudden urge to retire early? Did they suddenly find themselves with riches and opportunities beyond their wildest dreams so that millions of them left employment early? No, that was certainly not the case for the majority of people. Last year, the proportion of men aged between 50 and the state pension age in employment rose to 69 per cent. because employment is rising and, thanks to Government policy, there is a favourable environment. The situation has improved a little, but the trend over the past 20 years is plain for all to see. Notwithstanding the fact that the economy is now performing well, older people who wish to work are being denied that opportunity.
  Discrimination is morally wrong, and is bad economics as well. Discrimination on the ground of age robs us all of the enormous economic and social benefits of age diversity. Reference has been made to the Employers Forum on Age, an independent network. As my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne said, it estimates that we could be losing about £30 billion-worth of output and income as the, result of age discrimination. I must advise the House that the forum is not a small, little-known, ineffective and unrepresentative organisation. I see that our free marketeer is no longer with us.
  Mr. Gardiner: He is sitting in the Gangway next to me; my hon. Friend has convinced him to join us.
  Mr. Berry: Never have I had such success in a debate; I shall keep the hon. Member for Gainsborough here. The private sector knows that age discrimination is economically inefficient. There is a massive list of companies that support the Employers Forum on Age, including Sainsbury's, BAE Systems, HSBC bank and the Nationwide building society. The forum is not a fly-by-night or unrepresentative organisation; it represents British business and the public sector. Many local authorities support it, as do public sector bodies and Government Departments. When such an organisation says that we are throwing away £30 billion a year as the result of age discrimination, we should take that seriously, even if, just for a second, we have to question our faith in an unfettered free market.
  It is wrong that for both moral and economic reasons we allow age discrimination to continue without adequate address. I pay tribute to the Government for taking action; they have done more on the issue than any previous Government. The 1999 voluntary code of practice and the Government's commitment to the EU directive are welcome. Taking five years to introduce legislation to tackle age discrimination in employment is certainly better than no commitment at all, but it is not the best that could be done; five years is a long time to wait when one is on the receiving end of discrimination. Moreover, the Government currently have no clear proposals on discrimination in areas other than employment.
  In conclusion, I am sure that all Members agree that discrimination is wrong. To deny people employment or access to services simply because they happen to be of a particular race or gender, have a disability or are of a certain age is unacceptable in a society that says that it is committed to human rights. We therefore need legislation to tackle age discrimination However, the admirable Bill presented by my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne does not go as far as that. It asks the House to show that it takes the problem seriously, to establish an age discrimination commission to advise Government and move on from there. The Bill has my full support, and I am sure that, with only one or two exceptions, it will have the full support of the House.
  11.10 am
  Mr. Paul Burstow: I am delighted to follow the hon. Member for Kingswood (Mr. Berry), who is a highly regarded campaigner on disability rights and on anti-discrimination more generally. He makes a powerful case for the Bill, which I and my party support. The initiative of the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton) in presenting the Bill does the House a service and does a great service to the many in our community who face age discrimination in the workplace and beyond.
  I shall set out the issues and recap some of the points made in the debate. In the next 25 years, the number of people aged 50-plus in this country will rise by 6 million. I have an interest to declare, as do many other hon. Members: in that period, I will become one of those 6 million people. Hon. Members should bear that figure in mind during the debate.
  Over the past 20 years, the number of men between 50 and state pensionable age who are out of work has doubled. That is not a matter of choice. As the hon. Member for Kingswood said, it has not come about
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  because people are suddenly blessed with ample resources, allowing them to enjoy a life of unfettered leisure; quite the contrary. It is the result of ageist assumptions that lead employers to cast their older staff on to the scrap heap.
  By 2020, 1 million more over-50s will be thrown on to the scrap heap, unless Parliament takes action now. It is those millions of individuals whose potential has already been stifled and those whose potential will be stifled in the future who should be the cause of concern for the House, and lead us to introduce legislation to deal with discrimination on the basis of age. That is why the Bill should get a Second Reading today.
  Further delay and half-hearted consultation over the coming months and years is not good enough. Parliament should send a clear signal to the Government, to employers and to the people that there can be no place in our society for ageism, which denies people their dignity and liberty and makes no economic sense. Even the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh) accepts that it is folly not to employ older people.
  It has been estimated that age discrimination in the workplace costs our economy £16 billion a year. The Employers Forum on Age believes that the figure could be as high as £26 billion a year. The cost to the taxpayer, in terms of lost income tax and other tax revenues and extra benefits paid out, is put between £3 billion and £5.5 billion a year. What a waste of people, talent and public resources.
  Although I shall focus primarily on age discrimination as it impacts on older people, and there is, perhaps, a tendency for it to be couched in those terms, we must recognise that there are aspects of discrimination that affect not just the older members of our society, but the young. In framing anti-discriminatory legislation, the House must address that.
  Ageist language permeates our society. For example, talk of demographic time bombs ignores the fact that the age shift that we think will occur in the future has already occurred, to a large extent. The time bomb has already exploded, but we seem to be coping with a much larger elderly population. Another example is talk of bed blocking, which too often victimises the person in the bed, as if it was their fault that they have become a delayed discharge statistic.
  We Liberal Democrats believe that there should be comprehensive age discrimination legislation on the statute book as soon as possible. The Bill will not deliver that end, but it is an important milestone. I hope that the House will allow it to make progress today and in future.
  As we heard from the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne, the Bill establishes an age equality commission to monitor existing and future legislation and advise the Government, business, the voluntary sector and the wider public on issues relating to age discrimination. I see the commission in much the same light as the commissions that already exist to deal with disability rights, equal opportunities and racial equality.
  An age equality commission with the powers and resources necessary to back individual older people—to be in their corner and on their side—would give them the ability to seek redress and to challenge discrimination in the workplace and in their everyday lives. Everyone deserves to be treated as an individual. It is important to bear in mind that there is no such thing as a typical older

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  person: each of us is unique. There is no such thing as a typical disabled person. There is as much difference between a 20-year-old and a 40-year-old as there is between a 60-year-old and an 80-year-old, yet all too often, in the delivery of service and so on, we bracket people together.
  We rely too much on people's date of birth, which can blind professionals and others to their uniqueness. For example, it can lead to arbitrary decisions about access to health care. In the case of not-for-resuscitation orders, it can determine who lives and who dies. The hon. Member for Gainsborough spoke about the NHS and quoted an example that I presented to the House some years ago. I welcome the fact that through their national service framework, the Government are tackling age discrimination in the health service. Audits have been undertaken and we await the outcome. It remains to be seen whether the voluntary approach will be adequate in the NHS. I hope that it is successful, but it may not be.
  In the past, the House has taken steps to outlaw discrimination on the basis of gender, race or disability. Those laws have played a crucial part in changing attitudes in our society. They set a benchmark against which behaviour could be judged. They may not have changed society as much as we would have liked, but law can make a difference by setting the tone and clarifying the direction in which we wish to travel. On age discrimination, the Government have clung far too long to the idea that a voluntary approach through a code is the way to deal with it.
  On the horizon is article 13 of the EU directive on equal treatment in employment, which provides a touchstone to which we can refer. It must become part of our law by December 2006, but I hope that action will be taken sooner. Why should we have to wait five more years before older people have the law on their side? Why limit the law to employment?
  The present Minister for Pensions was keen to send a positive message back in 1996, when he was shadow Employment Minister. He said:
  "The Labour party's position is quite clear…an incoming Labour Government will introduce comprehensive legislation to make age discrimination in employment illegal."—[Official Report, 9 February 1996; Vol. 271, c. 618.]
  Quite right, too.
  What happened? In government, Labour had second thoughts. Rather than legislating, the Government opted to tread the path of the voluntary code. Although we have heard some suggestions that the code is working, the evidence that I have read so far suggests that it has worked, at best, at the margins. The Government's own research casts doubt on its effectiveness. Surveys found little or no change in employment policy among the employers surveyed.
  Dr. Pugh: My hon. Friend made the point that the scope of age discrimination stretches wider than employment. Does he agree that there have been clear instances of age discrimination in some public bodies? I refer him to Merseyside police authority, whose staff have to withdraw at the age of 70.
  Mr. Burstow: One of the issues that will have to be addressed is why we use someone's date of birth as the
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  criterion to determine their competence and what they can contribute to society. Someone's date of birth is not an acceptable basis for such judgments, and my hon. Friend makes a good point in that regard.
  I want briefly to quote from the final report that the Government have published on the outcome of the third wave of the roll-out of their voluntary code. The passage is telling and addresses a point made by the hon. Member for Ilford, North (Linda Perham), who has also been an effective campaigner on these issues. It states:
  "The information gathered in this research project suggests that although the concept of a voluntary Code is seen as a step in the right direction it is felt that the government needs to do much more to raise awareness of the Code and to change entrenched attitudes. It is, expected that the Code will eventually become law, just as other types of discrimination legislation has. The main criticism levelled at the Code is that it will not have sufficient impact on its own and not in its current voluntary state. The fact that there is not general awareness of the new Code is taken as evidence of this."
  The report elaborates on the view that the code is not widely understood and appreciated by the very people who need to use it and who should follow it in the workplace. It seems at times that Ministers are wont to say that the Government are not enthusiastic about legislation as it will impose extra burdens on employers, as the hon. Member for Gainsborough implied.
  There is concern that employers do not want the legislation, but research evidence does not support that contention. In 1999, a survey of members of the Institute of Directors found that six in 10 were in favour of legislation on age discrimination. Earlier research by the Institute of Management found that eight in 10 of its members favoured the introduction of such legislation. Even the Federation of Small Businesses said that it would support legislation as long as it was simple and clear.
  So, why the reluctance to introduce that legislation? We have already seen that the voluntary approach is not enough in the workplace. Indeed, the hon. Member for Cioydon, South (Richard Ottaway) gave ample evidence about the operation of age bars in respect of job vacancies in the legal profession. Such an approach is also not effective in health care. Indeed, there is an overwhelming body of evidence to show that ageism is rife throughout society—in the national health service, employment, social services, media and even the Government's approach to recruiting more vets, as the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne described.
  In his foreword to "Winning the Generation Game", the Prime Minister said:
  "I hope that our actions as a Government will also promote a wider change in attitudes."
  Yet, the solutions that have been advanced appear to contradict what Departments have been doing. What have they done so far? Not a lot "Winning the Generation Game" is an excellent report that does a very useful job in illuminating the issue. It calls for a
  "change in culture—to raise expectations of older people and stop making judgments based on their age rather than their true value and potential."
  It goes on to state:
  "The Government can take a lead in stimulating this change. First, though its words, it can prominently set out the case for valuing the skills and experience of older people in work and beyond. Second, through its actions, the Government can show that it means what it says: by accepting that age discrimination must be tackled,

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  with legislation needed unless a voluntary code produces demonstrable results; and by taking steps as an employer to retain older Civil Servants and to give them flexibility in their working lives."
  Those are very fine words, but where is the delivery? A series of written answers to questions tabled by the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne demonstrate that there is still a gap between that very fine rhetoric and the reality. In fact, the gap is a chasm, because no Department that replied to those questions indicated that any action would be taken before 2006. Instead, we are offered the prospect of more consultation.
  Ms Atherton: I am very pleased to have the hon. Gentleman's support. I wish that some more Liberal Democrats were present to support the Bill. Is he aware that I had great difficulty in tabling the questions to which he refers, as the Table Office could not identify which Departments and Ministers were responsible?
  Mr. Burstow: That is a very fair point. I think that the hon. Lady was present at a reception hosted by Help the Aged earlier this week, at which the Minister for Pensions shared with those present information about the members of his inter-ministerial group. Perhaps we now have a list of Ministers whom we can tackle and target to encourage them to follow the innovation unit's recommendations, especially in respect of the civil service.
  In 1997, the position was clear. An incoming Labour Government were committed to introducing comprehensive legislation on age discrimination. It is a question now of whether the Government have gone far enough to put their house in order in relation to the performance and innovation unit's recommendations on changes in practice in the civil service, and of whether the Government are walking the walk in putting their own voluntary code into practice. I hope that the Minister will tell us a bit more about where the Government have got to in respect.
  It is also worth considering evidence from abroad. The example of the United States shows that age discrimination laws can have a significant impact and substantially increase employment rates in respect of older workers. Legislation in Australia, Canada and the USA has had a substantial effect on discriminatory practices in relation to advertising vacancies, selection and promotion.
  I want the UK to leapfrog the USA and other countries that have already introduced legislation and to introduce a new standard. Given the ageist assumptions in our employment practices, health service and many other aspects of life, it is time that comprehensive legislation to tackle age discrimination was put on to our statute book and enforced. It would have a positive impact. For example, it would address growing concern about the way in which we treat elderly people in our society. The absence of anti-discrimination legislation in respect of age, when it exists for gender, race and disability and wi11 soon apply to sexual orientation and religion, downgrades for many people the importance that we should attach to age discrimination.
  As a Liberal Democrat, I should like to repeat the view that we set out at the election—
  Dr. Pugh: Speaking also as a Liberal Democrat, I point out that the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne
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  (Ms Atherton) said that there were not so many of us here today. Does my hon. Friend agree that a higher percentage of the Liberal Democrat party is probably present than of the Labour party?
  Mr. Burstow: The House has heard my hon. Friend's point. I took the comment of the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne in the spirit in which it was intended and moved swiftly on.
  Although the hon. Lady did not accept the case for an integrated approach involving a single commission, a powerful case was made persuasively to the Employment Sub-Committee, which should be considered and form the basis for legislation. A single equality Act should codify and reform the 25 measures that are already on the statute book and enable us to meet our obligations under the EU directive. Such legislation would reduce the volume and complexity of existing UK legislation and regulation— perhaps addressing some of the concerns raised in the debate—focus on diversity and allow inconsistencies to be tackled across existing legislation and equality commissions. From the point of view of business managers, it might also save parliamentary time by combining debates and scrutiny of a single Bill rather than the several Bills that will be necessary if the Government adopt a piecemeal approach. Over time, we should move to a single integrated commission for equality issues. I understand that the Hepple report, which investigated the matter and was canvassed with the Confederation of British Industry, the Trades Union Congress and most of the existing commissions, carried much favour and support, albeit qualified in some quarters, as a sensible template to be followed for developing equality legislation in our country.
  The hon. Lady is to be congratulated on promoting the Bill. I hope that the Government will give it the time it deserves in the House and that we will have the opportunity to explore in Committee the many issues it raises. I hope, therefore, that it will receive its Second Reading.
  11.28 am
  Dr. Phyllis Starkey: I should like to add my congratulations to those already expressed to my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton) on choosing this very important topic as the subject of her private Member's Bill. I guess that I should also declare an interest. I was elected to the House at the age of 50. I am immensely grateful that, despite the fact that my constituency has one of the youngest populations in the UK, it had the good sense not to exercise any age discrimination in the 1997 or 2001 elections. I think I was just the oldest candidate on both occasions, so I am extremely grateful to my constituents for showing the way forward for the rest of the UK.
  Several hon. Members have pointed out that age discrimination, especially in employment, is not only unfair to individuals but a waste of valuable experience and expertise. I shall not enlarge on that, except to mention a specific case that I tackled soon after being elected in 1997. I was approached by a constituent who works for the security service in the House of Commons and was about to be turfed out of his job because of an age bar. I am pleased that I, like several other hon. Members, made representations to the then Home Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn (Mr. Straw), who removed the age bar.

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  I am pleased to say that my constituent continues to work here and greets me cheerily in the morning when I arrive at Portcullis House. His case shows that age bars are always wrong. They are a crude measure, which suggest that at a certain age all individuals lose the ability to do their jobs.
  Some jobs, such as that of an airline pilot, require acute eyesight or quick reactions. It is important that people's ability to do their job is tested regularly to ensure that they can perform their tasks safely, but it is not right to try to achieve that by saying that at a certain age people suddenly go to seed and have to be removed. That is relevant in the case of Dr. Yacoub.
  Ms Drown: My hon. Friend suggested that a way forward might be for all constituencies to elect the oldest candidate. I hope that her view is closer to mine: a Chamber such as ours should represent a wide group of ages. Does she believe that we have achieved that?
  Dr. Starkey: My hon. Friend slightly misinterpreted my comments.
  Ms Drown: I thought that I might have done. I am pleased to hear that.
  Dr. Starkey: I said that I was pleased that my constituents had set aside the age of the candidates and judged us on our merits and, clearly, those of the parties we represented. It meant that I was elected despite being the oldest candidate. I do not think that I said what my hon. Friend suggested, but I believe that the House should be more representative of the population in every way, including in gender, ethnicity, age and experience. We are a long way off that, but closer to it than in the past.
  I shall not say more about the way in which current practices discriminate against individuals and are often not in the best interests of employers in the private and the public sector. However, I echo the comments of the hon. Member for Croydon, South (Richard Ottaway) about employers' mindsets. My constituency is similar to his in that it has full employment and employers often find it difficult to fill vacancies. Nevertheless, many employers in my constituency have the mindset that older workers should not be considered, and seek younger workers from elsewhere instead of taking account of the breadth of experience in the local work force.
  I want to make two points that have not yet been mentioned about employment practices and older people. First, it is important that employers make conditions more flexible. Many older people have experience to offer and want to continue to work, but perhaps want to reduce their hours. The sort of measures that are mentioned in the context of women with family responsibilities—greater availability of part-time jobs, more openness to job sharing—are also applicable to older workers.
  There is no reason not to consider job-sharing opportunities for older employees. An employer can get two experienced people who wish to work, but do not want to do so full-time because they want more leisure to enjoy their lives. Such measures, which are often relevant to young women with children, are also applicable to a wider range of workers, especially the elderly.
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  Secondly, age discrimination militates against those, especially older woman, who have tried to improve their skills and change their career They have missed out on educational opportunities because of discrimination in the past. They may have chosen to stay at home—or, indeed, had no option but to stay at home—and not had the same opportunities as men of their age to develop career skills and progress up the employment ladder. They may have been employed in low-paid, relatively unskilled jobs. When their children have grown up and left, they go into education. Many of them study with the Open university, which is based in my city. They upgrade their skills and wish to return to work and have a fulfilling career, but find that they are badly discriminated against because they are entering the work force aged 50 or older.
  It is important to take into account the need to encourage women and men to upgrade their skills, invest in greater education and training at any stage in their career and for them to feel that they will be welcomed back into the work force and that their investment in improving their skills will be recognised. They should be able to contribute and not be written off as too old to make a valuable contribution. I therefore commend the Bill to hon. Members and hope that the Minister will respond to it positively.
  11.36 am
  Mr. Mark Prisk: I commend the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton) on promoting the Hill, and do so not least as someone who was brought up in the Camborne and Redruth area. I am delighted that a representative for the area has taken such an initiative. I feel a slight twinge of envy as a new Member who did not do so well in the ballot, but I congratulate her on her success.
  The hon. Lady is right to raise the issue of age discrimination. We should recognise the way in which society has changed. I am now the tender age of 39, going on 40, and in those years we have developed a youth culture. All too often, the media portray a negative image of those who are 55 or older. The image may be intentionally humorous, such as that of Victor Meldrew, but it is nevertheless negative. Youth and new things are viewed as good whereas experience and historical matters are perceived as bad. That culture and attitude are at the heart of the subject that we are discussing.
  I commend the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne for promoting the Bill because irrational discrimination, whether against age, colour, creed or race, is wrong and should be tackled. I regard myself as a meritocrat. Decisions, whether they are about parliamentary candidates or someone's job, should always be based on the individual's qualities and suitability for the role. They should never be based on an irrational method of trying to choose between one person and another. The merit of the individual and suitability for the role should always be paramount. It is therefore right to raise the matter in the context of the workplace.
  There is in my constituency an excellent charity that tries to tackle the problem. Based in a church hall in Bishop's Stortford, Kickstart is an excellent agency that helps those who face the type of discrimination that we are discussing. In my visits to the charity, I learned how often larger corporations use euphemisms such as "restructuring" and "downsizing" when they are in fact

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  removing more expensive senior employees and replacing them with cheaper, younger members of staff. That is wrong. I also learned that such discrimination is not applied solely to those whom the Bill addresses—those aged 50 or more. As one who is 39, going on 40, I was worried to learn that it is used against those who are in their 40s.
  I have focused on two aspects of the Bill. I hope that the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne will understand that my aim is to scrutinise, not to oppose. The first aspect I want to question is the definition of discrimination set out in clause 2, which states:
  "'discrimination' means—

  (a) the denial or removal of rights customarily held by persons residing in the United Kingdom, or

  (b) the creation of additional conditions that must be satisfied before rights customarily held by persons residing in the United Kingdom are granted".

  My concern is that that differs sharply from definitions of discrimination in existing legislation: for example, the Race Relations Act 1976 focuses primarily on "less favourable treatment". Why is there a different definition?
  I raise that question because if two different definitions of discrimination are on the statute book, problems of enforcement arise. If it is desirable that we establish a single equality commission, there is clearly a danger in having two different definitions.
  Ms Atherton: The hon. Gentleman is right to raise that complex issue, which I look forward to exploring in more detail in Committee. It is properly a Committee matter, whereas we are currently discussing the broad principles of the Bill.
  Mr. Prisk: I fully respect that. I just wanted to put the point on the record so that we could explore it in Committee at the appropriate stage of consideration. The definition is clearly at the heart of the Bill.
  My second question, which has been touched on by my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh), relates to the applicability of age equality, defined in clause 2 as:
  "the absence of discrimination on the basis of a person's age".
  That definition does not specifically refer to those aged 50 or more, so there a danger that the Bill might be applied to those aged less than 50. That is another issue that must be explored properly in Committee.
  Ms Atherton: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the fact that under the heading "Interpretation" the Bill states:
  "'older person' means a person who has attained the age of fifty."
  That is a clear definition.
  Mr. Prisk: That does indeed define "older person", but "age equality" is defined as I stated, and a question mark hangs over how the two terms relate to each other.
  Jim Knight: The Bill starts by saying that it is a Bill to
  "Make provision for the establishment of an Age Equality Commission to advise the Government on discrimination issues in relation to older people."
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  That clearly sets out the purpose of the Bill, which goes on to define "older person". I do not think that there can be any doubt.
  Mr. Prisk: I am concerned about the fact that the definition of "age equality" does not appear beneath that of "older person" and that there is potential for conflict. However, if no such potential exists, I am happy,
  I am a small business man, so my second concern relates to the employment aspects of the Bill. It is right to introduce the Bill because it helps us to identify a major problem for our competitiveness: the potential loss of experience and skills from our work force. However, the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne should recognise that the burden of new regulations tends always to fall disproportionately on the smallest businesses. Small firms—those with, say, between one and four employees, such as local newsagents and post offices— are the ones that often find the burden of regulations and compliance most onerous.
  It is always the law-abiding firms that make the effort to comply, whereas those who are happy to ignore the law seek to avoid provisions such as those set out in the Bill. My concern is that we may become frustrated that the Bill does not appear to be achieving our aims and that we pass further rules, regulations and laws. The law-abiding will try to keep up, but those who are never prepared to support such legislation will continue to try to find a way around the measures. I wonder whether legislation is the best means of dealing with those who deliberately discriminate on the basis of age.
  When introducing her Bill, the hon. Lady rightly said that we need to change minds and attitudes. However, I echo my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough in asking whether new laws are the best way to achieve such changes. The drink driving laws were mentioned: it is true that those laws were in place for 10 years before a noticeable change in behaviour occurred. Only when drink driving became socially unacceptable—when it was generally acknowledged that it was wrong—did a significant and rapid change occur. I am not entirely convinced that changing the law will, of itself, solve the problem.
  I have reservations about the details of the Bill and I am concerned that the definitions it contains may conflict with existing legislation. I also have reservations about its impact on small businesses. Overall, however, I support the aims of the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne, because discrimination is wrong. It is wrong morally, it is wrong for business and it is wrong for our society. For those reasons, I commend the purposes of the Bill.
  11.47 am
  Mr. Edward O'Hara: I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton) on introducing the Bill and on her extremely effective presentation.
  The Bill is not a Bill for older people—it is a Bill for all the people. It is rare that I agree with the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh)—sadly, he is not in his place to witness this rare occurrence—but I did agree with him when he said that the one inescapable fact is that all young people become old. I am reminded of the joke about the young lad who meets an old feller in the street. He looks at him and asks, "How old are you?" The old

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  feller says "I'm 88." The young lad says, "I don't want to grow up and be 88 like you", to which the old feller replies, "You will when you're 87." To put it more soberly, let me quote Horace, who wrote:
  "Eheu fugaces, Postume, Postume, Labuntur anni, nec pietas moram rugis et instanti senectae adferet."
  Which translates as "Alas fleeing Postumus, the years glide by, nor will piety bring a delay to wrinkles and advancing age." We all get old eventually, and there is nothing we can do about it.
  Horace's words about pious efforts not being effective illustrate the words of my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne, who amply demonstrated that in all sorts of areas Government exhortation has been seen to require the support of legislation and, in many cases, of a statutory body to enforce that legislation. The Commission for Racial Equality and the Equal Opportunities Commission are examples of such bodies. Several hon. Members have mentioned that some political parties have acknowledged the need for active intervention to achieve gender balance in their representation in Parliament. Legislation on disability that was first ventured by the last Conservative Government needed strengthening by the first Labour Administration of 1997. There is ample evidence of discrimination on grounds of age, across a wide spectrum. Mention has been made of the NHS and certainly the national service framework recognises the problem of discrimination on the ground of age across the service. The jury is out on how effective the national service framework will be in eliminating that discrimination, and an age equality commission might be able to do some useful work in that area.
  My hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne mentioned age discrimination in financial services, giving the example of her mother. We could all add our own examples. The debate has concentrated on employment, and there are welcome indications from the Government that more than exhortation may be needed in the shorter, rather than the longer ran to enforce their pious exhortations not to discriminate on grounds of age in employment.
  The implications underlying age discrimination are that older people are less worthy, deserving, capable and valuable. They are certainly not less worthy or deserving. As the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford (Mr. Prisk) pointed out, it is wrong in principle that people should be discriminated against on the ground of age. We are all equally valuable, young and old alike. Moreover, older people have their deserts because of their contribution to the common wealth and to the opportunities now being made available to younger people, from which older people are too frequently excluded.
  Older people certainly are not less capable. For a second time in this debate, I can agree with the hon. Member for Gainsborough—this is indeed a rare occasion—who accepted the B&Q experience. It can make sense to employ older people. They are not less valuable and they bring to their work maturity, experience, people skills and stability in their personal lives. Older people are not distracted from their work, as some younger people can be, by difficulties in their
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  personal lives. Older people also often have a greater commitment to work than younger people, not least sometimes because they appreciate the fact that they are being employed in their more advanced years.
  An age equality commission would address a need, but it is not a heavy-handed proposal. The Bill says that the commission would monitor and advise the Government and other agencies on age discrimination. The commission would serve the interests of those who suffer from discrimination and it would serve the nation, by ensuring that it does not loss the valuable resource of older people, who are healthy, active, still of working age and anxious to give of their efforts to the labour market. After all, older people are healthy and active for longer than has been the case in the past, a demographic fact with which the labour market has not yet caught up.
  Older people are often dependent on benefits because they are prematurely and involuntarily unemployed. Many would rather be in work and self-sufficient. Nothing could be more in line with the mainstream thinking of the Government than the argument that people should have every opportunity to be self-sufficient, responsible for their own lives and able to work to achieve that.
  The proposal for the establishment of an age equality commission is modest, but eminently sensible. I hope that the Government will look favourably on the Bill and give it the time it needs. I commend it to the House.
  11.55 am
  Mr. Andrew Rosindell: I commend the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton). The intentions behind her Bill are right, although I have some concerns that I shall outline. I entirely support the comments by the hon. Member for Kingswood (Mr. Berry) about discrimination not only being wrong in principle but making no economic sense. That is true.
  The older generation in this country are people who deserve better. They fought for this country, they have paid taxes all their lives and worked hard for a long time. They deserve better than they are getting today. However, we should be careful how we approach the issue. It is not necessarily always the best approach to introduce more legislation or to set up more: self-perpetuating quangos, but more needs to be done to enhance what we do for our senior citizens.
  I am a strong supporter of our senior citizens and have a lengthy record of campaigning for a better deal for them. In my constituency of Romford, in the London borough of Havering, I have worked closely with local organisations such as the Havering Pensioners Forum, the Association of Retired Persons and a new group, established two years ago, called Havering Action against Home Closures. Several council-ran residential homes in the borough are being closed and I have worked closely with all interested parties, including the groups I have mentioned, to fight those proposals.
  As I said in my maiden speech, only four months ago, the older generation, especially in my constituency, are suffering at the hands of a Labour council determined to close the residential homes I have mentioned. As we all know, such closures, in turn, create bed-blocking problems in the NHS. My constituency contains two excellent residential homes, Marks Lodge and Hampden Lodge. Both are threatened with closure under the Labour council's proposals. The hon. Member for Hornchurch

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  (John Cryer) has an Adjournment debate on the issue later. That policy is unacceptable, and I will certainly campaign alongside the older people—
  Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman must address his remarks to the Bill rather than to the issues to which he has been referring.
  Mr. Rosindell: That is what I now propose to do, Madam Deputy Speaker.
  I fear that the measures in the Bill would give no guarantees and offer no practical solutions to many other issues identified by countless reviews and investigations by charities and organisations suggesting that the older generation is a victim of widespread discrimination. I accept that such a commission would, as the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne says, seek to create a lobby and pressure for measures that would alleviate many problems facing the elderly population, and that is an honourable intention. However, I question the added value that a new quango would bring to the situation.
  Ms Atherton: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Bill refers to the over-50s, and that its brief goes wider than he appears to believe?
  Mr. Rosindell: Yes, I am aware of that. I am not sure whether it means that my comments are not relevant to the situation. I understand that the commission would focus on people over 50. I am simply saying that the creation of another quango—another body to interfere—is not necessarily the right answer. I agree with many of the points of my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh).
  It is difficult to find a single document on the subject that does not already demonstrate how the elderly are treated differently in terms of the job market, access to health care and travel insurance, to name just a few examples. None of those groups is shy in putting forward its ideas on how issues can be resolved. Considering that our very large civil service is more than able to consult them, I am puzzled as to why we need to spend yet more taxpayers' money on yet another body to tell us what existing structures should be competent enough to work out for themselves. Indeed, we in this Chamber are elected to represent our constituents and to raise these issues. I do not believe that it will help to create yet another body of bureaucrats to speak up for the older population when that is what we are elected to do. The commission is unnecessary if Members of Parliament do their jobs properly.
  One area in which there is a clear need for urgent action, however, is the national health service. The number of people who write to me and come to my weekly surgeries to complain about the national health service is staggering, something with which I am confident every Member in this place is all too familiar. It demonstrates the depth of crisis and disarray in the health service.
  What most disturbs me and should, I believe, concern every Member of the House is the attitude seemingly shown towards our old folk. It is all too common to hear of elderly patients being treated as if they were second-class citizens. I find that utterly unacceptable and shameful. For example, Age Concern reports that it.
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  receives a call a month from people reporting how their clinical notes, or the notes of ageing relatives, were marked "not for resuscitation".
  Dr. Pugh: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, as I understand it, Age Concerns supports the establishment of the commission as proposed in the Bill? If the hon. Gentleman is quoting Age Concern as an authority in one case, why does he not accept its views on other matters?
  Mr. Rosindell: It is absurd to think that every Member would agree with every point made by every outside organisation. Age Concern may support the creation of a commission, but I question whether that would solve the problems that Age Concern wants to be solved. However, Age Concern makes many sensible, relevant and logical points, and I agree with it on this issue.
  Surveys have revealed that elderly people suffering from serious conditions wait longer than 24 hours to be given a bed. Of course, under this Government that scenario is not unique to older people, but even if the health service really cannot cope with every case, it must surely be accepted that the elderly, who are undeniably more frail than younger people, deserve a quick admission when seriously ill. Yet time after time they are treated as if the wait will make no difference.
  This is a disgraceful state of affairs that demonstrates the inherent ageism in the national health service's attitude. Such ageism prevents and blocks those who have dutifully paid their taxes and national insurance contributions all their life from gaining access to the quality of care they so rightly deserve. But the question must be what a commission would do to solve that problem. Surely the treatment of elderly patients by the NHS is a matter for the Department of Health and the NHS to resolve, and for us as Members of Parliament to take up. Of course the commission could come up with new ideas and strategies, but at the end of the day it all comes down to the running of the health service.
  Travel is another area in which we can help the older generation in a practical way. In London, the freedom pass allows pensioners to travel free on London buses, underground and trains. That scheme is superb and should be extended beyond the boundaries of Greater London into Essex—indeed, why not to the whole country? That is something practical that we can do to enhance the lives of the older generation.
  Job market issues are relevant to what we are discussing today. With 2.8 million people between 50 and the state pension age not in work, the public purse is clearly suffering. Older people are a magnificent resource, with experience and years of knowledge. We should encourage them and give them opportunities that they are currently denied. My hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, South (Richard Ottaway) alluded to that.
  When people reach the age of 50 they are blatantly not ready to be placed on the scrapheap and branded unsuitable for work. Many of my constituents of pensionable age or, indeed, over 50 say they feel that they have been placed on the scrapheap. That is wrong. We should use the power that we have in this place to encourage and help the older generation back into work. They are a tremendous resource of which we should make use.
  However, I challenge the basis on which supporters of the Bill think that the scenario should be changed. All the regulations, directives and campaigns in the world can

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  focus on encouraging employers to take on people over 50, but there is only a limited pool of jobs. If the sort of campaigns and regulations that a commission would predictably propose were implemented—regulations that simply focused on the status quo—we might end up with lower unemployment in the older age categories and higher unemployment across other age groups.
  Dr. Starkey: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
  Mr. Rosindell: I would like to make a bit more progress. I will give way in a moment.
  The problem will not be solved through regulation. No market is helped by regulations. The problem is one of long-term unemployment, which can be solved through competent economic policies that leave the market free to grow. In order to become more prosperous, businesses look to expand and take on more staff. A better way to help the older generation into work is to use the tax system. Reducing taxes for older people is surely a better way to encourage them and price them back into the job market.
  Dr. Starkey: The point that I wanted to make was relevant several sentences back. The hon. Gentleman said that if more older people were employed, there would inevitably be unemployment for younger people. How does he reconcile the scenario outlined by the hon. Member for Croydon, South (Richard Ottaway) and which exists in my constituency, where we have essentially full employment and labour shortages, with his notion that that is a zero sum gain and one cannot help the elderly without creating a disbenefit for the young?
  Mr. Rosindell: I am suggesting that we would disadvantage certain groups of people by implementing the Bill. There are other mechanisms that we could use to allow older people greater opportunities to work. I have already cited the tax system as an example, and I hope that proposal will be considered.
  The Bill identifies undesirable practices—especially the problems in the treatment of elderly people by the NHS. However, the Bill would be enormously costly to implement and the establishment of yet another bureaucratic commission—a quango—might not yield any tangible results. A commission sounds most impressive, but I urge Members to think about what it would actually do that could not already be undertaken by our civil servants on a case-by-case basis.
  The Bill would be a blank cheque for endless reports, with no guarantee of real change and no recognition of the different issues that affect older people. If we are to treat our old folk with the respect and dignity that they deserve, we must accept that a single commission will never solve all their problems. Each case must be dealt with individually, in the most appropriate manner.
  12.11 pm
  Dr. Desmond Turner: It is a great pleasure to support the Bill promoted by my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton), which is in the best tradition of private Members' Bills. It addresses the type of social issue that
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  Governments rarely have the time to get round to, but is rightly discussed in this place. There is a remarkable degree of cross-party unity on this issue—with certain less than honourable exceptions.
  If hon. Members were to propose that discrimination on the grounds of gender, race, religion or even age was reasonable, everybody would howl them down. We all know that such discrimination is unacceptable. Age discrimination touches all our lives—whether we are young or old and whatever our creed, race or sexuality.
  Only one thing in life is as certain as getting a bit older and that is getting even older—if death does not get to us first—so we all have a distinctly vested interest in the measure, even if it is only self-interest. I shall thus declare my interest, because I seem to be on the Saga mailing list as well. We all have a strong interest in the topic.
  Other countries and cultures respect and treasure older people and look to them for wisdom and for the benefit of their experience, but in this country we are all too ready to treat older people as dotards, or perhaps even to categorise them as "older folk"—as they apparently do in Romford. As a result, we get many things wrong. We set arbitrary ages for retirement from work, paying no heed to people's ability to perform their jobs.
  Individuals differ enormously in the way that they age. Some people are perfectly capable of carrying on their job or profession well past an arbitrary retirement age of 60 or 65—although it was probably right to draw the line under the working lives of some judges as they approached the age of 100. By and large, competence and ability should determine when people stop work. If they want to carry on working and are capable of doing so, and if there is work for them to do, it is in their interest and in society's interest that they should, so we need to be much more flexible, as that would be of vast benefit to the nation.
  An obvious example is the health service, where we have critical recruitment and retention problems with nursing staff and related professions. Those problems will not get any easier, because a very large percentage of those who are in service at the moment are nearing their arbitrary retirement age, but many of them might want to continue to work. It would be very much in the interests of their service if they were able to do so; otherwise, we shall continuously run to stand still in trying to staff the health service.
  Health services are also notorious for discriminating against older people. Labelling a patient with the words, "Do not resuscitate" should be a criminal offence. Human life is uniquely valuable whatever our age—young or old. No one should think himself able to decide whether to take a life or death decision such as that. That is playing God, just a little, and it should be outlawed.
  In fact, in the examples that I have given, a commission would be cost-effective. It would cost a little to run—a trivial amount in terms of administrative expenses—but the possible economic return to the nation would justify its cost probably several hundred times over.
  Of course, ageism or age discrimination goes on in this place. A large percentage of Members were elected for the first time after they had reached the age of 50, but I cannot think of anyone—I am open to correction—from that category who has been appointed to a Government post under either party, yet this group of people must, by definition, contain a great many very talented individuals,

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  with a wealth of experience, who could fill ministerial posts with distinction, but they will never get the opportunity. So we need to look at ourselves and the ageism and age discrimination in our own institution.
  Mr. Gardiner: Give him a job.
  Dr. Turner: No, I am not seeking ministerial employment—the Whips would not allow it.
  We, as politicians, should also keep very firmly in mind the fact that more than 35 per cent. of the electorate are either over or rapidly approaching retirement age—the grey vote. That is a powerful political force, which we ignore at our peril. Those people are much better at turning out to vote than younger electors. Turnout among the over-50s is very much higher than among any other group. If only for political self-interest, they need to be treated with great respect, and I mean respect as opposed to the way in which Governments sometimes treat them—as a group that has to be kept sweet. There is a very big difference. That is why an age equality commission could play a vital role.
  I do not agree one iota with the hon. Members for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh) and for Romford (Mr. Rosindell). Their touching faith in the market will not bring dividends to anyone. There is no evidence of a widespread uptake of what one might describe as the B&Q philosophy in British business. Change will not happen overnight or in our lifetimes; we could wait centuries before the message about ending ageism is turned into practice.
  The hon. Member for Romford thinks that we have enough civil servants and Departments to tackle the problem issue by issue. We certainly have enough of them but, if that approach were effective, we would have seen the results already and we would not be here debating the continued existence of ageism; the fact that we are shows why we need a commission
  Everything that the hon. Members for Gainsborough and for Romford said emphasised in my mind the argument and the justification for a commission. It would create a focus for dealing with age discrimination. It would draw together the activities of Departments, civil servants and Ministers and make them think about co-ordinating their activities and their legislation so that they end age discrimination for the whole population.
  I have no difficulty in; supporting the principles enshrined in the Bill. I hope that the Government will support it; one of the best things that they could do is create an age equality commission. I commend the Bill to the House.
  12.22 pm
  Andrew Selous: I am pleased to be called in this important debate, particularly as I was one of the signatories to early-day motion 178.
  We rightly have legislation that outlaws discrimination on the grounds of race, disability, gender and creed, so why not have legislation that outlaws age discrimination? I have been struck by the comments of friends from the United States of America. When they look at some of our job advertisements, they feel the same horror that we would feel if an advertisement said that it wanted a white male. The level of discrimination that they see in our job press is equivalent to that.
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  Although I will not dwell on it, there is discrimination at the other end of the age spectrum. As a country, we send people to fight for our armed services, perhaps to be killed, at the age of 17, but we do not allow them to vote.
  The cost to the economy of discrimination against older people is huge. A Help the Aged report published in September shows that 85 per cent. of people over 50 believe that there is discrimination. A report from the Employers Forum on Age in April 2001 estimated that the cost of ageism in terms of lost gross domestic product was £31 billion. I note that the Bill has the general support of the Institute of Directors and the Federation of Small Businesses, so it appears that employers' organisations do not oppose it.
  This summer, when foot and mouth was raging and we were desperately scouring the country for vets, was it not ridiculous that a vet was turned down simply because he was 70? Many of my constituents will be deprived of the services of the world-famous surgeon, Magdi Yacoub, of Harefield hospital purely because he has reached the age of 67. That is an anomaly given that other parts of the national health service allow people to work until they are several years older than that.
  Mr. Dillamore senior is a counter-example of that. He is an owner of Dillamore's, the fine furniture store on Leighton Buzzard high street, and has just retired from the business at the age of 98, as I found out during a constituency canvass in Linslade last week. Older people contribute hugely to our economy.
  On insurance discrimination, I am a former insurance underwriter, although I worked in the reinsurance market. It is wrong that the premiums for car and other forms of insurance increase at certain age limits. That is a result of the increase in telephone-based insurance systems, which do not involve underwriting. Instead, insurers follow a rigid guideline and people's ages automatically push them into a higher premium category. That is not underwriting, which is what I was trained to do, in which a proper risk assessment is carried out. There is no reason why older people with a good risk record should be penalised. That is poor underwriting and does not make sense. We heard how charities and voluntary groups are unable to get people to work for them because of the prohibitive cost of insuring them.
  It must be sensible to have a flexible retirement age as our population increasingly gets older. I feel strongly that it is grossly unfair that people have no right to claim unfair dismissal if they are over 65. My mother-in-law, a widow who receives only a small pension, recently went through that experience. As she was older than 65 she had no grounds to contest her employer's decision to make her unemployed, which is unacceptable.
  I associate myself with the remarks of the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Dr. Turner), who mentioned the "Do not resuscitate" notes that have been placed on several elderly NHS patients in recent years. That is also unacceptable. However, the problem is wider than that. The upper age limit on clinical trials for cancer sufferers is often 75, so older people are denied the best forms of treatment. Delays in hip fracture operations severely harm the elderly because of the pre-operative procedures that they have to go through. Evidence also shows that dialysis treatment for kidney patients discriminates on the basis of age.

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  I wholeheartedly support the establishment of an age equality commission. I note that it was a Labour commitment as long ago as 1996, before it came into government in 1997. I hope that the House will pass the Bill and that the Government will not rely on the European Union to legislate, which sadly is often the case, because we would have to wait another five years for that, which again is unacceptable.
  I accept that the law on its own will not change attitudes. Social attitudes must also change over time, but the Bill is needed because the problem is large. If existing structures, Departments and hon. Members have not managed to solve it, an age equality commission would give a healthy prod in the right direction. I am pleased to support this important Bill, which I hope will proceed to Committee.
  12.29 pm
  Jim Knight: I am pleased to support the Bill, having tabled early-day motion 178. I am also pleased to support it because I am a personal friend of my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton). We met almost 10 years ago, fighting the good fight for our party in Westbury in Wiltshire. It was not an easy task. I also got to know her father, Denis, at that time, and he is a good advertisement for the Bill. He bore a remarkable resemblance to Father Christmas, but he was also an active pensioner—active in walking his dog, in going down the pub, in work as a journalist and in supporting his daughter in her career. He is a good example of how able many elderly people in our society are and why we should take action to avoid discriminating against them.
  I am also keen to take part in the debate because there is a tradition of Members of Parliament for South Dorset speaking on age discrimination. I dug out the record of a debate on the Employment (Upper Age Limits in Advertisements) Bill introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, North (David Winnick) in 1996, during which my predecessor went with the arguments proposed by the hon. Members for Romford (Mr. Rosindell) and for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh). I am sure he would agree with the hon. Member for Romford, who said that no market is helped by regulation.
  My predecessor said to my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Mr. Banks):
  "The hon. Gentleman is wrong in believing that there has been any advantage from the legislation on sex discrimination."
  In another intervention, my hon. Friend asked whether capitalism had
  "always been colour blind, when slavery used to underpin capitalism".
  My predecessor replied that
  "clearly capitalism was at least employing and utilising those people."— [Official Report, 9 February 1996; Vol. 271, c. 580–81.]
  I must reassure the House that I do not agree, and I have great pleasure in supporting the Bill. With a majority of just 153 and more than 21,000 constituents aged over 60, plus many aged between 50 and 60, I have a self-interest in doing so, although I am only 36.
  One of many constituents who got in touch to ask me to support the Bill sent an e-mail last week. She is a remarkable person who has done a huge amount to help
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  others into work. She is self-employed and she worked for Weymouth college in attracting a £3.5 million European social fund grant to south and west Dorset. It is the largest ESF grant awarded anywhere in my region, but her e-mail said:
  "If I were not self employed I could have been put out to grass by now!"
  That £3.5 million investment in my constituency would not have happened if she had been employed and discriminated against as a person over 60.
  On Saturday. I was given a tour of Swanage, another part of my constituency, by a retired constituent who wanted to show me some excellent work being done by volunteers. I was taken to the look-out over beautiful Swanage bay and the Isle of' Wight beyond to see the tremendous work that retired people do voluntarily to look after the shipping that passes Swanage on the south Dorset coast.
  My constituent took me on to Durlston country park, where I saw the tremendous work done almost exclusively by volunteers to sustain a superb attraction that draws many hundreds of thousands of people to my constituency every year. They see the beautiful countryside and spot dolphins from the cliffs around Swanage. In my constituency there are many examples of how important elderly people are in supporting our society, which reinforces my belief that we must liberate them and allow them to make a contribution. Any discrimination should be stopped.
  My final example is from my time as an employer before being elected to the House. Our small company in Westbury, Wiltshire, always advertised vacancies in local jobcentres first, so unemployed people usually applied. I received an application from a chap aged over 50 who had been made redundant and believed he was on the scrap heap. We gave him a chance. He became our accounts manager and he still works there. He is the most loyal, the most committed and, in many ways, the most important part of our team in sustaining morale and paying our wages. He is certainly a valued employee at my former company. He genuinely believed that he did not have a chance of obtaining another job. The fact that he was given that chance makes him the most valued of our employees.
  The principle of tackling age discrimination has been well argued. My hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood (Mr. Berry) advanced a powerful argument in support of the Bill.
  I remind the House of the findings of the Employers Forum on Age. Its research found that a tenth of people between the ages of 45 and 54 believed that they had been rejected for a job in the past 12 months, and that age discrimination costs the United Kingdom at least £16 billion a year. The economic arguments are overwhelming for taking action to tackle age discrimination.
  Given that the European equal treatment directive has to be enacted by 2006, it is sensible to establish the proposed commission to advise, to receive evidence and to present arguments so that we secure legislation and implement the directive in the best possible way for the UK and its economy.
  I hope that the House will support the Bill and allow it to proceed to its next stage.
  12.36 pm
  Mr. Gregory Barker: I join those who have commended the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton) for bringing forward an important measure that affects an important section of society to the Floor of the House.
  My constituency includes Bexhill, and because of that I represent one of the oldest constituency populations in Great Britain. Bexhill is therefore no stranger to prejudice against the elderly. We are tired of constantly being on the receiving end of bad jokes about the elderly. We are especially fed up with the one about Dover for the continent and Bexhill for the incontinent. We would like to see much more done to talk up the positive role that elderly people play in the United Kingdom, not least because the population of Bexhill is very far from retiring.
  Bexhill has a highly active elderly population, and not only politically. Many of my supporters, who played a crucial role in securing my return to Parliament, are in their 60s and 70s, and some are in their 80s. They are doing great work for me and for a wide range of voluntary and charitable organisations. The members of the generation who fought and won a war and are now in their 70s and 80s still give freely of their time, effort and experience to their local communities. The public-spirited approach that many senior citizens have in my constituency is something that we would all do well to emulate. I agree with the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Dr. Turner) that competence and ability, not age, should be the key criteria for assessing a person's fitness to do a job.
  Even in Bexhill, which is to grey power, perhaps, what Hollywood is to the film industry, ageism rears its ugly head. Numerous charities and voluntary organisations have a mandatory retirement age. Individuals have a great deal to offer the voluntary sector, but that sector imposes the age for retirement rather arbitrarily. It seems extraordinary that at the age of 80, for example, one will be deemed not fit to work in a voluntary capacity in a hospital or a charity shop in Bexhill. However, at the age of 87, one would be considered quite fit to play a central role in a broad-based coalition Government for the future governance of Afghanistan. I welcome the role that King Zahir Shah will play in bringing peace to that country. He certainly would not be the first octogenarian to play an important international role. We all appreciate the part played by Nelson Mandela; before him, Winston Churchill and even Gladstone played important roles in their 80s.
  The Government have introduced proposals on reforming the House of Lords; I hope that the proposal to impose an age limit of 75 on Members of the upper House will be consigned to the scrap heap. Elderly people bring important wisdom, consideration and experience to the legislative process. It is lamentable that Members of Parliament tend to leave the House earlier and earlier; the House of Lords is improved by the age and experience of its Members.
  I should like to make a few remarks about the NHS. Four and a half years after Tony Blair said that he had 24 hours to save the NHS, there is still a huge amount of age discrimination.
  Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): Order. I should remind the hon. Gentleman that it is not in order to refer to a Member of Parliament by name; that should be done by reference to his constituency.
  Mr. Barker: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker; I stand corrected.
  Age discrimination is rife in the NHS, as hon. Members, including my hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Mr. Rosindell), have said. It is a matter of record that elderly people are being left to die, as has been highlighted by Age Concern. They are being left on trolleys and are missing out on cancer treatments. Elderly patients are being refused dialysis and elderly people are at greater risk of hip fractures. Last year, an Audit Commission report revealed that 43 per cent. of hospitals had to cancel hip replacement operations for "unacceptable reasons", such as a lack of properly qualified staff. In some hospitals, one operation in five had to be cancelled for those reasons. The report stated:
  "Cancelling operations is particularly risky for elderly patients since repeated starvation prior to anaesthesia can lead to dehydration and nutritional problems and increase the likelihood of complications and poor recovery."
  The elderly are not just suffering medically in the NHS, but are suffering as a result of provisions on bed allocation and nursing aftercare. In East Sussex, the social services sector is in crisis, largely as a result of the financial state of affairs that the county council inherited after four years of a Lib-Lab pact which ran down the reserves. As a result, bed blocking is a frequent occurrence and a serious problems for both hospitals in my constituency.
  In conclusion, while I share the concerns of my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh) about the introduction of more legislation and the establishment of more commissions, in this case the Bill is sufficiently important to warrant a Report stage and I am happy to support it.
  12.44 pm
  Mr. Mark Lazarowicz: I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton) on introducing the Bill, not least because it allows the House to demonstrate clear cross-party support for it. I hope that the Government will take that on board in due course. I congratulate my hon. Friend on the effective campaign that she and those backing her have waged throughout the country to draw attention to the Bill. I was contacted by Age Concern Scotland, whose headquarters are in my constituency; its representatives met me and explained why they supported the Bill. I know that there is support for the principle of the Bill throughout the United Kingdom.
  We heard earlier from a number of hon. Members that the Bill was the 15th private Member's Bill on the subject to come before the House in less than 20 years. Whatever the eventual outcome of the measure, I hope that across the political spectrum hon. Members will accept that, notwithstanding the useful voluntary initiatives that have taken place, particularly in the past few years, it is a criticism of our system of parliamentary procedure and parliamentary democracy that a proposal which has received overwhelming support in the House and in the country almost every year for the past 20 years should not find its way on to the statute book and should make so little practical progress. I hope that those on the Treasury Bench will bear that in mind.
  I have no doubt that there is a strong case for tackling discrimination based on age. A particularly bad example of age discrimination is that practised by employers who

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  discriminate against existing employees as well as potential new recruits on the basis of age. As we heard, such discrimination is unfair to the individuals concerned and can also be self-defeating for the business involved and damage the economy.
  My city is one of many places in the country which, thanks to the policies of the Government, now has low levels of unemployment, by and large. It is crazy for employers to rule out potential employees on the basis of age. Employers with a positive attitude to older workers, such as B&Q, which has rightly received praise in the debate, are reaping the benefits.
  My hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne referred to the gentleman in her constituency who worked as a lollipop man and had been required to retire at the age of 70. I am glad to say that in such matters my local authority has a more enlightened attitude. In Edinburgh lollipop men and ladies are not required to retire at any specific age. They can serve as long as they meet the necessary medical requirements and pass a medical test.
  Rev. Martin Smyth: How far is discrimination against workers who have reached the age of 70 due to the fact that insurance companies are not prepared to cover such people to provide information or do voluntary work?
  Mr. Lazarowicz: The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. I am sure that in many cases, that is the underlying reason.
  In my city, if the requirements of sight and hearing are met, a person can work as a lollipop man or woman until any age. I recall that last year I attended a presentation ceremony for someone who had just retired as a lollipop man at the age of 87. He was replaced by a youngster of 76, who would no doubt serve for many years to come. In so doing, those individuals were enjoying their work, contributing to society and helping to meet the shortage of workers in an important social sector.
  I support the proposal for an age equality commission. I accept that there are complexities in the issue of age discrimination. There are undoubtedly problems relating to insurance. The range of premiums may well reflect factors that should justifiably be taken into account. However, as the hon. Member for South-West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) pointed out, in many cases discrimination in insurance means that a blanket discrimination is applied, with no objective, logical justification.
  The approach that could usefully be followed is the one adopted in the disability legislation, whereby if there is objective justification for some form of differential treatment, that can be applied, but where there is no justification, discrimination becomes unlawful and should not be allowed. That seems a sensible way forward.
  I will not say that I am sympathetic to the points made by the hon. Member for Romford (Mr. Rosindell), who is no longer in the Chamber, but I can see merit in some of them. He drew attention to the danger—as he would see it—of having too many commissions and statutory bodies. I had better not speak about him for too long while he is absent from the Chamber, but I suspect that he is against
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  almost any commission or statutory body. I certainly do not share that opinion, but none the less I think that there may be a case for considering in due course how to tidy up the various commissions and bodies that are designed to promote equality in this country—a possibility that my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne did not rule out.
  I have no doubt, however, that the proposed age equality commission is at this stage the right way forward to highlight a form of discrimination which, as has been pointed out, affects many people in this country. The beauty of the proposal is that it allows a flexible response to the problems that arise from age discrimination. As those problems can express themselves in many different ways, the flexibility of my hon. Friend's approach should commend it to the House.
  I want to make one final point about the Bill in relation to Scotland, to which it would apply. It must do so, as equal opportunities legislation is still a reserved matter. I have no doubt that there is support for the Bill in Scotland, as there is in the rest of the UK. However, given that some related legislation is devolved to the Scottish Parliament—legislation on education and health, to name but two areas, is devolved—it would be necessary in due course to make provision to allow representation of appropriate Scottish bodies on the commission. Such provision would also be necessary to ensure that what the commission did fitted in with measures that applied in England, Wales and the rest of the UK. Of course, I make those points not to express any opposition to the Bill, but to highlight a matter that should be taken up in Committee or elsewhere, whatever future form the measure takes.
  I have no hesitation whatever in supporting the Bill. I commend it to the House and I hope that the Government will accept the spirit of what it proposes.
  12.52 pm
  Mr. John Whittingdale: I join other hon Members in congratulating the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton) on her good fortune in coming third in the ballot for private Members' Bills and on the way in which she has presented her case to the House.
  A number of speakers have pointed out that age discrimination has occupied quite a bit of the House's time in recent years. Three Bills have been introduced on the issue in this year alone and one was introduced in each of the previous five years. It is worth noting that two of those Bills were introduced by Conservative Members., five by Labour Members and one by a Liberal Democrat. None of them proved successful, but their introduction indicates a widespread desire, which extends across all parties, to see a debate on the issues that the Bill raises.
  However, there is another reason why it is very important that we should reconsider age discrimination. Almost exactly a year ago, the European Union Employment and Social Affairs Council adopted the equal treatment in employment directive, which will prohibit discrimination in employment on a number of grounds, including age. Member states have until 2 December 2006 to implement the provisions on age and disability. I am slightly surprised that no more of our debate has concerned the EU directive. It has been mentioned by a number of hon. Members, but it is a looming presence that we cannot ignore.

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  The directive is wide ranging and will cover selection, recruitment, working conditions, training opportunities, promotion and employment benefits. Only the armed forces are specifically exempted from it, although it will not cover membership of occupational pension schemes. It will reverse the burden and proof in civil cases of alleged discrimination so that when an allegation is made, it will be up to the employer to show that discrimination has not occurred.
  There has been an obligation for a year to introduce legislation on age discrimination. There has been no shortage of employment law proposals, which include consultation documents on part-time work, fixed-term contracts, parental leave entitlements and dispute resolution. Next Tuesday, the Employment Bill, a major measure, will be considered on Second Reading. However, the Government have been largely silent about age discrimination, apart from an explanatory memorandum in January from the then Department for Education and Employment. It stated that the directive required legislation and that the extended implementation period until 2006 will allow time for research and widespread consultation with employers, individuals and expert groups to clarify the differences in treatment on the ground of age that are justified and those that are not.
  It is a pity that, apart from establishing a working group, nearly a year has passed and the consultation process has barely started. I am pleased that the Minister said that the Government intend to publish proposals for a first round of public consultation in the next few weeks. I am sure that he will give details of that shortly. However, much time has already been lost.
  Several hon. Members said that the Select Committee on Education and Employment usefully dealt with the issue. It produced a helpful report, which drew attention to the difficulty of determining the extent of discrimination in the work place on the ground of age other than through anecdotal evidence. It pointed out that although it may seem that discrimination is taking place on the ground of age, there may be other underlying reasons. For example, a higher proportion of the work force aged over 50 may have worked in traditional heavy industries, which have experienced more redundancies. That may have had a greater impact on those people. The Select Committee accepted that discrimination existed and called for further research, which I support.
  The Select Committee highlighted two valuable points, which I endorse. Some of the contributions have dealt with them. First, discrimination against employees because of age is likely to lead to economic inefficiency. Those who use age criteria to judge individuals' ability will have a narrower choice of applicants from which to recruit. Those who judge individuals on their ability, not according to their age, are likely to manage resources more effectively by minimising staff turnover. They are better able to build a flexible work force and they will have access to a wider range of experience. Their work force will be better motivated if employees do not believe that they are necessarily reaching the end of their employment. Increased productivity will mean that their costs are reduced.
  Those clear advantages, which most hon. Members accept, inevitably lead us to ask why employers have not recognised them more widely. Hon. Members have pointed to the shining example of B&Q. Why is Government intervention necessary? I favour a voluntary
  618
  approach, which would educate employers, rather than compelling them through the blunt instrument of anti-discrimination legislation.
  My hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh) made a powerful and persuasive case. He explained why legislation involves dangers and that it is much better to focus on the market to achieve greater efficiency through ruling out discrimination. The previous Conservative Government mounted several campaigns to educate businesses about the advantages of employing older workers and the Government have continued that practice. They adopted a similar approach through the voluntary code of practice on age diversity. None the less, I accept that progress has been disappointing. My hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, South (Richard Ottaway) mentioned specific areas where not nearly as much progress as we would like has been made.
  The second reason why age discrimination is damaging is demographic: we have an ageing population. Currently, about 35 per cent. of our work force is aged over 45, but in 10 years time that proportion will have risen to 40 per cent., so it is essential that we make full use of the abilities of older workers. That will have implications for retirement ages, which I shall discuss shortly.
  As I have said, there are dangers in adopting a statutory approach. When the Education and Employment Committee carried out its investigation, it received evidence from several business organisations. The Confederation of British Industry pointed out that there is considerable uncertainty about what constitutes unfair treatment. Detailed guidance is needed to give employers certainty and there must be a long lead time before legislation comes into effect if widespread compliance is to be achieved.
  It is self-evident that some occupations demand a high degree of physical fitness and that, similarly, physical risk factors escalate significantly with age. Examples cited by the CBI include aircraft pilots, divers and offshore riggers, and I would imagine that firemen, who have been mentioned several times today, fall into the same category. Those much higher actuarial risks are likely to affect employers' liability both for insurance and for health and safety requirements.
  The CBI rightly points out the danger that legislation will leave employers vulnerable to high levels of costly— and potentially spurious—litigation. One of the main purposes of the Employment Bill, which is to receive its Second Reading on Tuesday, is to reduce the number of cases that go unnecessarily to employment tribunals, but if it is passed, the Age Equality Commission Bill will create a new cause under which employees can take a case to a tribunal. In the evidence to the Select Committee, it was pointed out that it is extremely difficult to show that age discrimination has not occurred—indeed, anyone leaving a job could claim that age discrimination had played a part, whether they were replaced by a younger worker or an older one. Age discrimination is likely to be thrown in among all the other causes under which cases are taken to tribunals.
  There are many unanswered questions: for example, will it be fair to offer seniority-based pay, or to offer more attractive redundancy packages to older workers? The Institute of Directors has pointed out that the provision in the directive for prohibiting apparently neutral provisions, criteria and practices that are likely to affect adversely a

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  particular age group is likely to entail costs for business. Some of the practices that may be prohibited are not at all obvious. It has been suggested that graduate recruitment schemes, recruitment by word of mouth, and advertising in particular places or publications may be held to be indirectly discriminatory. Most of us will be familiar with the "milk round", whereby employers go to universities specifically to recruit graduates. That, too, might be ruled to be indirectly discriminatory on the ground of age.
  There are doubts about the effectiveness of existing anti-discrimination legislation. The United States of America, France, Canada, Finland, Spain, Australia and New Zealand have age discrimination legislation, but only in America and New Zealand are unemployment and inactivity rates for the over-50s lower than in this country. Clearly, more research is needed.
  It is extremely likely that employer-imposed compulsory retirement ages will become unlawful unless they can be objectively justified. The evidence to the Select Committee states that that will be the case. I am strongly in favour of promoting flexible and phased retirement ages—indeed, the demographic factors that I have mentioned make them essential—but I note the view of the CBI that employers would strongly oppose a ban on contractual agreements to retire. Such matters should be left to negotiation and agreement between employer and employee.
  During the debate, my hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle (Mr. Barker) made an interesting observation about whether the Government's proposed age ceiling for membership of the House of Lords would prove to be discriminatory under the terms of the directive. I am sure that the Government will examine that issue.
  Many questions urgently need to be addressed. Every single one of the employers organisations has called for consultation and clarity. That is one reason why I welcome the opportunity that the Bill has given us to have an informed debate. It might be helpful to establish a body such as the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne suggests. I have not always been a great fan of commissions, and I share some of the reservations that were set out by my hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Mr. Rosindell). However, an advisory body might be able to bring about the national debate that is needed and could prove valuable. That view is shared by Help the Aged and Age Concern, and—like most hon. Members here today—I have been approached by Age Concern in my constituency to support the Bill.
  I have focused on the employment aspects, but the Bill covers other aspects, some of which have been mentioned in the debate. I am sure that we all share the views of the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Dr. Turner) about evidence of age discrimination in the NHS, and the appalling stories of "Do not resuscitate" notices. Nobody could condone that.
  My hon. Friend the Member for South-West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) made a helpful contribution on the issue of insurance, bringing in his expertise in that area. In some areas, insurance may be more expensive for older people. In the case of health insurance, there may be good reasons for that, based on actuarial calculation. It is undoubtedly the case that the
  620
  average cost of health care for someone over 50 will be higher than for someone under 50. Indeed, the cost continues to rise as people grow older. In some markets, it is cheaper for older people to obtain insurance. For example, some motor insurance schemes are targeted specifically at older people who are less likely to have accidents. I suspect that older people would not wish to have such schemes ruled illegal under anti-discrimination legislation.
  The whole issue raises huge questions and we have had the chance to mention some of them today. The need to address the issue is urgent, because we are not alone in considering it. It has already been covered by a European directive and we are under an obligation to legislate soon. I hope that the debate will have served to illuminate some of the issues that have been raised. I also hope that the debate will continue in Committee. It is important that we have a full discussion of all the issues raised and, for that reason, we do not intend to stand in the way of the Bill being given a Second Reading.
  1.8 pm
  The Minister for Employment and the Regions (Alan Johnson): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ms Atherton) on her colourful speech. She has a talent for dealing with serious issues in an interesting way. Indeed, she set the spirit for what has been an excellent debate. Sometimes these debates do not get the attention that they deserve outside the House, but today has been the House at its best. The debate has covered lollipop men, silver surfers, a history of scurvy in the Royal Navy and Horace quoted in the original—of course, I must tell my hon. Friend the Member for Knowsley, South (Mr. O'Hara) that most hon. Members did not need the translation, because we understood it perfectly well. My hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne did the House a service not only by raising the issue, but by doing so so effectively.
  We have had excellent, wise and sagacious contributions, including that from my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford, North (Linda Perham), who has a long history of involvement with the issue. We had a passionate speech from my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood (Mr. Berry) who made the point that several of the Back Benchers who supported two ten-minute Bills on the issue last year have become PPSs or Ministers. The inference was that that could be the way up the promotional ladder. I point out only that both those Bills failed, which is probably why my hon. Friends were promoted so soon afterwards.
  My hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes, South-West (Dr. Starkey) made an excellent contribution. She raised the crucial issue about people approaching retirement age who may want the same access to flexible working and reduced hours that we intend to introduce into the Employment Bill for parents of young children. We have also had excellent contributions from my hon. Friends the Members for South Dorset (Jim Knight) and for Edinburgh, North and Leith (Mr. Lazarowicz).
  By and large, this very interesting debate has not involved any political posturing and has been the better for it. The hon. Member for Gainsborough (Mr. Leigh) was, as always, entertaining. He was courteous in putting forward arguments that were not shared by other right hon. and hon. Members, and spoke with his normal clarity and panache.

  621
  The hon. Member for Croydon, South (Richard Ottaway) made an important contribution. I know that area of London well, and the problems that he described are very real. There is very low unemployment, yet people cannot get work for no other reason than their age. The hon. Members for Hertford and Stortford (Mr. Prisk), for South-West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) and for Bexhill and Battle (Mr. Barker) also made important contributions. The hon. Member for Romford (Mr. Rosindell) broke what I thought was becoming a consensus and made some rather unnecessary political points. However, he does come from the same region as Ipswich.
  The hon. Member for Maldon and East Chelmsford (Mr. Whittingdale) raised some points that I hope to address, together with the essential points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne. I will try to cover all of them in the course of my remarks, pointing out the Government's concern on the issues and how we intend to tackle them.
  Sadly, all too many people fail to appreciate the seriousness of age discrimination and the damage that it can do. We often fail to realise how conditioned we are in our perceptions of older people—our upbringing, culture and the prevailing media images all conspire to create a stereotype, and discrimination feeds on stereotypes. The Government are strongly committed to tackling unjustified discrimination. Our record shows that we have taken action over the last Parliament to demonstrate that commitment through some important steps.
  The minimum wage, for instance, was a vital step for all low-paid workers, especially women, which narrowed the pay gap by a full two percentage points in the first year of its implementation. That was the first progress on low pay that had been made for many years. The national child care strategy has created places for 700,000 children, thus helping parents in the work place. The new deals to help the young and long-term unemployed, lone parents and disabled people into work have made an important contribution. We created the Disability Rights Commission to promote and enforce civil rights for disabled people.
  We implemented the recommendations of the Stephen Lawrence inquiry to improve the way in which police deal with race and race crime. We have amended the Race Relations Act 1976 to prohibit race discrimination in the exercise of any public functions not previously covered by legislation, and to place a new statutory duty on public bodies to promote race equality.
  We have introduced a common age of consent for gay people and heterosexuals. We have changed the immigration rules to allow long-term unmarried couples of different sexes or the same sex the same right as married couples.
  The hon. Member for Maldon and East Chelmsford asked what we had been doing ahead of introducing the European directive regarding age discrimination. We have introduced the code of practice on age diversity in employment and the new deal for 50-plus, which is a voluntary programme to help the unemployed and the economically inactive back to work. We are taking forward the recommendations of the PIU report "Winning the Generation Game", which was published in April
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  2000, and included the collection of examples of good practice by employers adopting flexible retirement policies, which may be widely disseminated.
  We have also introduced the age positive campaign and the inter-ministerial committee for older people—so we have not been inactive.
  In its most pernicious form, age discrimination scars the lives of countless older workers. It costs British industry untold amounts—the figures were quoted in the debate. Especially set against the context of the current demographic trends, it is a waste of potential that this country cannot afford. We all have a common interest in ensuring that all, regardless of age, are able to contribute effectively to the economy, for the economy's sake as well as their own.
  There are almost 19 million people aged 50 and over in the United Kingdom. They account for 40 per cent. of the adult population. There are almost 6 million people aged between 50 and state pension age in employment, but 30 per cent. of that age group are not economically active. Failing to make full and effective use of that resource is not the only problem. According to the Employers Forum on Age—an august body; some of the companies associated with it were mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood—18.5 million people feel that they have been discriminated against on the ground of age in one or more aspects of their life. Eight million people have experienced age discrimination in employment.
  It is all too clear that employers do their business a disservice by excluding otherwise meritorious candidates solely on the ground of their age. Such practices have a devastating effect on people's lives, and that is what we are determined to tackle.
  A large part of the problem is the tendency to think of age in terms of outdated and inaccurate stereotypes. Unlike in other areas of discrimination, differential treatment based on age is often not based on hostility or ill feeling, but misconceptions about older workers abound, and the outcome for the victims is just as bad. That point was made eloquently by my hon. Friend the Member for Knowsley, South.
  Older workers are said to be slow to learn new skills, stubborn and inflexible, to cling to outmoded working practices and to take more sick leave. Surprise, surprise, none of the research supports those stereotypical views of older workers. They turn out to be more reliable on average than their younger counterparts. They are less likely to change employers after a short time. They are good at learning new skills. They are reliable and effective workers who turn up on time.
  Moreover, the negative stereotyping ignores the benefits that older people bring to the work force. They bring a better balance and continuity and a more representative work force profile that reflects companies' customer base. They bring a stronger skills base and higher levels of experience.
  Prejudice and culture are not remedied by legislation alone. In June 1999, the Government launched the code of practice on age diversity in employment along with supporting guidance for employers and illustrative case studies. The voluntary code sets the standard for non-ageist approaches to recruitment, selection, training and development, promotion, redundancy and retirement. We are also embarking on an age positive campaign to

  623
  promote the code strongly through advertisements, awards, initiatives, events and project work with small and medium-sized businesses.
  Those initiatives have met with some clear success, but equally clearly they were not sufficient in themselves to tackle the problem. That is why we decided last autumn to throw our weight behind the EU employment directive that commits all EU member states to the introduction of legislation to outlaw age discrimination in work and training. I was pleased to be able to play second fiddle to my right hon. Friend the Member for Dulwich and West Norwood (Tessa Jowell), who was then the Minister for Employment, Welfare to Work and Equal Opportunities. It was not a decision that required qualified majority voting; it required unanimity. I do not know what the difference would have been had the Opposition been in power, but we were pleased and proud not to use our veto and to sign that directive.
  We are determined to press ahead with our campaign, because we believe that legislation alone is not enough, and I shall discuss that in a moment. Experience abroad, in countries such as the United States and Australia, where age legislation has been in place for some time, strongly suggests that the effectiveness of such legislation is greatly helped when it operates in conjunction with other policies—such as age positive initiatives—to promote equal rights and to educate employers about their obligations as well as their rights.
  The Government have committed themselves to bringing in new legislation to outlaw age discrimination in the workplace and in training. As the hon. Member for Maldon and East Chelmsford pointed out, that is at the heart of this debate. I shall outline our plans for the implementation of that legislation.
  Last November, the European Council of Ministers agreed the employment equality directive. It will require all 15 EU member states to introduce legislation prohibiting direct and indirect discrimination at work on the grounds of age, sexual orientation, religion and disability. We welcomed the directive from the outset; it is an important step in ensuring equal opportunities for all workers, whether in this country or elsewhere in the EU.
  However, legislating against age discrimination is highly complex—as, I know, many Members on both sides of the House appreciate. There are many complicated and sensitive problems that we must address and resolve so that the eventual legislation is practical and helpful to employers and employees. In particular, the directive recognises that differences in treatment on the ground of age can sometimes be justified. For example, it may sometimes be necessary to make special provision for younger or older workers in order to protect their safety and welfare.
  The challenge in implementation is thus to identify which types of different treatment are acceptable and which are not. That clearly requires sensitive consideration, in the light of responses to consultation. The EU recognises the complexity of the issue and, for that reason, the directive allows member states up to six years to implement its age discrimination provisions.
  The Government intend to take full advantage of the time allowed, so as to develop clear and workable legislation. We thus do not anticipate that new legislation
  624
  will come into force sooner than 2006, although we aim to have the legislation and its accompanying guidance in place well before then, so that businesses, employers and others have sufficient time for preparation.
  We realise that the problem of age discrimination is not confined to employment, but legislating on age in employment is a significant undertaking and we need to allow time to get it right. At this stage, we are not persuaded to move at once to extend the scope of the legislation in order to cover goods and services as well as employment. It is likely that demographic and economic factors will provide powerful incentives for shops and service providers to change discriminatory attitudes to customers. There will simply be too many older customers for businesses to ignore them or treat them in a cavalier fashion.
  Future consideration of legislation on goods and services would pose some complex questions. For example, would it be reasonable to outlaw specialist services aimed at particular age groups, such as holidays for younger or older people? That was one of the examples given during the debate. Should insurance companies be able to make reasonable adjustments in their premiums to reflect actuarial calculations? How would we deal with special concessions to pensioners? Travel, television licences and winter payments come to mind.
  Mr. Burstow: Some Members will be disappointed to hear that goods and services are not to be included in the process at an early stage—not least because the Disability Rights Commission Act 1999 offers such a good template. Will the Minister tell us why the EU directive requires delivery of legislation in respect of sexual orientation and religion by 2004, but age by 2006? Would it not make more sense to introduce the provisions at the same time, so that Parliament could debate a comprehensive measure in the round, thereby addressing all the issues—including goods and services—sooner rather than later?
  Alan Johnson: The date for the other two issues is 2003, not 2004. The feeling was that age discrimination is particularly difficult to deal with—indeed, we are further behind in relation to age than in relation to the other areas. That is one of the essential points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne, which I shall come on later, and it is the reason for the different time scale. I shall deal with the point that the hon. Gentleman makes in a second.
  In our view, the problems that I have outlined reinforce the importance of focusing first on getting things right in relation to employment and building firm understanding and support for the necessary changes. Of course, hon. Members and others will say that legislation should be all embracing in its scope and that having to wait until 2006 is too long. The Americans, for example, have had their Age Discrimination in Employment Act since 1967, with subsequent laws extending and amending the scope of the legislation. However, even now, US federal law does not extend to goods and services.
  Although the American experience can provide us with useful lessons, experience from abroad also suggests that there are no easy off-the-peg solutions. The path to legislation, and the legislation itself, differs from country to country. Overseas experience suggests that age

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  discrimination law evolves over time. Another clear message from overseas is that solutions that fit particular experiences need to be found. That view is reflected in the EU directive. Recital 25 of the directive refers to the fact that provisions on age discrimination may vary in accordance with the situation in member states, and that is our view.
  This is a complicated issue and we need to get it right. As I have already said, we have to tackle hearts and minds while developing proposals for legislation. It is not a question of persuasion or legislation; an effective strategy requires both. That is why we propose to consult widely, and why we aim to raise awareness and promote understanding of the issues throughout the period leading up to implementation.
  As a first step, therefore, we shall shortly launch a consultation on how discrimination in the workplace on grounds of age, religion and sexual orientation can be made unlawful. The current plan is to publish the consultation document on 13 December—just a few weeks away. Those involved in that consultation will consider whether goods and services should be covered and whether we should have a separate age commission. We shall seek the views of employers, employees, organisations and expert groups.
  We do not expect to resolve everything to do with age all in one go. The difficulties and questions that we have to consider—for example, redundancy, recruitment, promotion, training and retirement—cannot be resolved quickly. We shall, therefore, consult again on further age proposals next year, when we have evaluated the responses to the first consultation.
  Of course, we have already had the benefit of the age advisory group's valuable expertise. The group includes representatives from industry, unions, employers organisations and key interested parties. I cannot mention them all, but they include the Trades Union Congress, the Confederation of British Industry, Age Concern, the Institute of Management, the Employers Forum on Age and the Society of Chief Personnel Officers.
  Mr. Burstow rose—
  Alan Johnson: Let me turn now to the issue at the heart of the debate: the provision of advice and support on age discrimination and the proposal to establish a new equality commission to help tackle age discrimination. That might cover the point about which the hon. Gentleman wants to intervene.
  As we implement the directive, we shall certainly need to consider how advice, support, and guidance in respect of all three new equality strands—religion and sexual orientation, as well as age—should be delivered to those who need it. It will have to be delivered in a way that people find easy to use; it has to be accessible and coherent.
  The Government accept that age is behind the starting line in respect of measures that already tackle discrimination. In respect of race, sex and disability, we have the Commission for Racial Equality, the Equality Opportunities Commission and the Disability Rights Commission, which perform a key role in the provision of advice and support. It does not follow, however, that—as we introduce new laws giving protection from discrimination on the three new grounds of age, religion
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  and sexual orientation—we should set up another three commissions, making six in all. That is an option, which has been powerfully argued by my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne, but it is not the only one.
  The EU employment directive does not require new commissions for any of the new grounds. We will need to weigh the merits of calls for a single commission to cover all grounds of discrimination, as in the United States where the enforcement of the Age Discrimination in Employment Act rests with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.
  Rev. Martin Smyth rose—
  Alan Johnson: This might be a good time for the hon. Gentleman to intervene, because we can also learn from our experience of the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland. That single body was created to exercise functions formerly carried out by three commission bodies and the Northern Ireland Disability Council.
  Rev. Martin Smyth: What evaluation is now taking place of the outworking of the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland? Even though it may have different offices dealing with different aspects, it is much more reasonable to have just the one commission.
  Alan Johnson: The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. We shall use that pertinent example in our deliberations.
  A single commission could provide a number of benefits. It would be a single point of contact for employers and employees as well as for members of the public. It would be also able to tackle multiple discrimination such as might have been experienced by an elderly black women or a disabled young man. It would help to create cohesion and aid compliance with co-ordinated enforcement action across all areas of discrimination and it could provide a more effective use of resources and expertise.
  As the debate has demonstrated, however, the arguments are not one-sided. To what areas of discrimination should a single commission give priority? For example, those such as my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne and others who want an age commission would argue that a single commission would lose focus, with age being only one of a number of issues that a commission would tackle. We could also argue that the Disability Rights Commission is bedding down and that it is the wrong time to include it in an overall commission. We recognise those finely balanced arguments. That is why we want to consult.
  Although I understand the concerns of my hon. Friend and the age lobby, it would not be right for us to commit to an age commission now and in isolation. We are just about to embark on a major consultation exercise on the implementation of new legislation. We need first to examine the requirements of all equality grounds in the round and to consult widely and to come up with proposals in the light of that consultation. That does not rule out special arrangements for age. We recognise that special factors are unique to this particular strand, but the decision should not be taken at this time and with sole reference to the issues surrounding age discrimination.

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  The Government do not want the Bill to go to Committee because we cannot commit ourselves to establishing an age commission—let alone one that does not cover young cover people in the way that we are obliged to by the European directive—or any other arrangements for commissions until full and proper consultation has been carried out and all the options have been considered in the round.
  Our age discrimination legislation, which will be developed in consultation with all the interested parties, will cover people in employment and training—young and old. We shall take into account the views expressed in the debate and we shall continue to consult and listen to what organisations, such as Age Concern, the TUC, the CBI and others, say about the commissions.
  The age advisory committee will also have a role. The Government cannot, however, make a commitment to establish an age commission or provide other arrangements for commissions at this stage. I hope that on the basis of my remarks my hon. Friend the Member for Falmouth and Camborne will withdraw the motion and focus her considerable expertise and strong and passionate advocacy on the consultation that is due to commence within the next few weeks.
  1.35 pm
  Ms Atherton: With the leave of the House, I shall respond to the debate, which has been excellent.
  I welcome the support that the Bill has received from hon. Members on both sides of the House. It is clear that there is much support for action to be taken and I thank hon. Members for contributing to the debate. I also thank the Minister for the powerful case that he made on why I should not proceed with the Bill. I am pleased that the Government are making strides forward and I urge further strides in the future. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.
  Hon. Members: No.
  Question, That the Bill be now read a Second time, put and negatived.

  Copyright, etc. and Trade Marks (Offences and Enforcement) Bill
  Order for Second Reading read.
  1.36 pm
  Dr. Vincent Cable: I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
  I am grateful—indeed, relieved—to have the opportunity to hold a Second Reading debate on my Bill. It is essentially the same Bill that was introduced in April by the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Mr. Miller). None the less, I appreciate that the House will want all the arguments properly heard, debated and scrutinised, and I shall approach our deliberations in that spirit.
  I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on the way in which he introduced the original Bill. I appreciate that he has now taken Trappist vows of silence and will not be able to speak in the debate, but when he initiated the process he built a substantial cross-party consensus, which I have endeavoured to continue, as reflected in the eclectic nature of the sponsors.
  I also congratulate the Alliance Against Counterfeiting and Piracy, which did much of the background work on the Bill. It represents a large number of entrepreneurs, large and small manufacturers, retailers and creative artists, whose livelihoods depend on the defeat of counterfeiting and piracy. I have an indirect interest in that my eldest son is an opera singer and I am looking forward to the days when he can rely on income from his recordings rather than on my parliamentary salary.
  I acknowledge the role of another key organisation, the Federation against Copyright Theft—FACT—which is located in my constituency. It has the important function of working with the police and trading standards officers to plan the raids that are crucial to the enforcement of action against copyright theft.
  I will set out what the Bill would do and why it is necessary, before dealing with a few of the technical points which would be more appropriately covered in Committee, if we reach that stage. The Bill is comparatively long and complex, but the principle behind it is simple. The complexity is due to the need to make a large number of insertions in existing legislation. The aim is to stop criminals from thinking that copyright crime is an easy option.
  It is also important to understand what it does not do. The Bill would not create new criminal activities; essentially, acts that are not criminal will not be criminalised by the Bill. It aims to rationalise existing legislation and would achieve three objectives in particular.
  First, the maximum penalty for involvement in copyright theft would be extended from two years to 10 to bring copyright legislation into line with trademark legislation. There is no logical reason for two sets of intellectual property law to impose different criminal sanctions, so the Bill would align and harmonise those.
  Secondly, the powers of search would be strengthened, and the prosecuting authorities and the police would be able to use them to secure evidence for a criminal prosecution. Thirdly, the power of forfeiture would be strengthened, again to bring copyright legislation into line

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  with trademark legislation. The Bill would harmonise different aspects of intellectual property law, but it would harmonise upwards and reinforce sanctions against criminal activity so as to acknowledge the subject's importance.
  Why is the subject important? First, copyright theft operates on a large scale and the industry estimates that £9 billion a year is involved, although the explanatory note refers to £8 billion. The sums are large and that money would otherwise accrue to creative artists, entrepreneurs and workers in industries that produce goods legitimately.
  The nature of the modern economy is such that, as we move further from traditional agriculture and metal bashing, more and more national wealth is created through knowledge-based industries and creativity. It is important that that is properly rewarded and that property rights are respected. That is the underlying basis for the concern about such large-scale theft
  A supporting reason why the subject is important is consumer protection. There is a popular myth that a cheap Harry Potter video at a car boot sale is an attractive purchase, but a lot of practical experience shows that consumers are exploited by counterfeits, which can be dangerous. There are many recorded examples of perfumes and skin creams being adulterated, of cheap toys disintegrating in the mouths of toddlers and of substandard audio and video recordings ripping off the consumer. The Bill would protect not only property rights, but consumers.
  Richard Ottaway: There is a Chanel factory in my constituency. We in south Croydon are only too aware of not only substandard goods, but complete fakes. The hon. Gentleman may come to trademarks, but does the Bill address imitation goods?
  Dr. Cable: Yes, it relates entirely to that issue. Fakes are part of counterfeit. Indeed, Chanel perfumes are a commonly quoted example, and a haul from a particular raid included Chanel bottles filled with an unmentionable yellow liquid. Various people were duped into buying that fake product, so the hon. Gentleman's concerns are valid. They are covered by the Bill.
  The Bill is important for another powerful supporting reason, which does not relate to theft from the entrepreneur or the creative artist. There is also theft from the taxpayer. It is estimated that the Treasury loses about £1.5 billion a year in tax that would otherwise have been paid. We all seek the nirvana in which we finance increased public services without increasing tax and such measures are an important step along that road.
  The final major argument in respect of the need to strengthen the law is that much evidence suggests that organised crime, not just petty Del Boy operators, is moving in on a large scale. The National Criminal Intelligence Service has highlighted the involvement of drug barons in copyright theft and pirating, which are considered low-risk occupations because the penalties are relatively small. Such people undertake large-volume activity to recycle the proceeds of other criminal ventures. So, there is a law-and-order reason as well as commercial and consumer protection reasons why the Bill is necessary and desirable.
  It is a general principle that we should take strong action against copyright theft, but the Bill is important for other reasons. First, the existing law is a mess. There is a
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  patchwork of inconsistent pieces of legislation. We have the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 and the Trade Marks Act 1994, which specify different penalties for no obvious reason. It is important that legislation reconciles and harmonises.
  Secondly, it is important that we have legislation that makes criminal sanctions effective deterrents. Various cases have gone through the courts in recent years, including Regina v. Watson, where the Crown prosecuted a major criminal. About £350,000 of taxpayers' money was invested in that prosecution. The offender attracted a penalty of two years imprisonment, which was subsequently reduced to one year. Those who monitor the industry record that the same pirates are back in court time and again. As I have said, it is a relatively low-risk occupation with short sentences.
  Mr. Barry Gardiner: Will the hon. Gentleman tell the House how the maximum sanctions that he is proposing compare with those for other crimes? Recently, for example, a case was highlighted in the newspapers, where a sentence of only seven years was imposed for child abuse, which was disparaged. Will he comment on comparable maximum sentences?
  Dr. Cable: My brief is somewhat narrow. I am trying to achieve some consistency between different types of theft, and especially different types of property theft. The hon. Gentleman may well be right that horrendous crimes are being committed elsewhere, the sentencing for which is entirely inadequate. I am sure that there are many opportunities for him to introduce a private Member's Bill or to take another legislative approach designed to address anomalies. I can attack only on a limited front, where there is a serious anomaly.
  The Bill is important for transparency. It is possible for the authorities to proceed with prosecutions against those who commit copyright theft. That can be done by using the law in an indirect way. If two or more people are involved, the charge of conspiracy to defraud can be invoked. There are some who have argued that we do not need to change the law because it is possible to find some existing power under which sanctions can be imposed. That is an unsatisfactory way to proceed. The approach is cumbersome and costly, and often it does not work. There is an enormous inherent advantage in having a law that is clear, open and completely honest in what it is designed to achieve.
  I have outlined some practical reasons for bringing the Bill forward now. Counterfeit theft takes place on a large scale and it seems that it is increasing. It is a serious threat that has been identified by the criminal intelligence authorities. The legislation that I am proposing will introduce clarity. It will make criminal sanctions effective and it will introduce greater transparency into the law.
  There are a few technical points, which perhaps will be best pursued in Committee. However, I shall refer to them in passing because the Bill deals with a dense area of legislation. Hon. Members may be troubled by that, or will be curious.
  The hon. Member for Brent, North (Mr. Gardiner) touched on sentencing. I stress that the sentence of 10 years imprisonment is the maximum. A sentence of such severity would rarely be invoked. The problem of someone being sentenced to 10 years imprisonment for

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  the sort of crime that we are discussing and someone else receiving a lesser sentence for child abuse would probably not arise. It is important to have deterrent powers, and the 10-year sentence is consistent with that for other intellectual property theft.
  I should say more about search warrants and search powers. There may be some sensitivity in the House about human rights in this connection. We must move carefully before additional search powers are granted. However, the Bill is quite tightly drawn. There is not the remotest prospect that the proposed legislation could be used, for example, to search a house because an individual is using a counterfeit product. That is certainly not the intention; the Bill clearly rules it out. A magistrate or a Scottish sheriff would have to demonstrate an intention to engage in substantial commercial counterfeiting operations, and that would be the basis for a search warrant. The legislation has been tested against human rights law. We should remember that people whose intellectual property is stolen have human rights, which must also be embodied in legislation.
  There are complex provisions on forfeiture, which is largely a matter of legislative tidying. Different pieces of legislation relate to copyright, creative performative rights and the specific problem associated with decoding devices used to access satellite television; separate legislative provision is required for that. Separate clauses in the Bill relate to Scotland which, again, is a tidying-up operation. Intellectual property law is a reserved power, but Scotland has its own criminal system and the legislation must reflect that complexity.
  Mr. Gardiner: I have been trying to interpret clause 5, which deals with forfeiture, but I am in some difficulty. It states:
  "A court may infer for the purposes of this section"—
  meaning for the purpose of forfeiture—that such an offence has been committed in relation to any infringing copies or articles if it is satisfied that an offence has been committed in relation to any infringing copies or articles "which are representative of the infringing copies or articles. I do not understand why the court can infer that forfeiture applies if such items are only representative of the infringing copies. Will the hon. Gentleman clarify that?
  Dr. Cable: I do not think that I can clarify it to the hon. Gentleman's satisfaction. To his credit, he has immersed himself in the detail of the Bill, and I honestly cannot answer his technical question. However, if the Bill goes into Committee, I undertake to address his intelligent and helpful point, which he has clearly thought through. If necessary, amendments would have to be tabled to deal with any anxieties that he may have. I respect the point that he made.
  To conclude, I hope that the House accepts that the Bill is a useful and practical piece of legislation to deal with a genuine problem. I hope that I will have leave to take it into Committee.
  1.52 pm
  Mr. Chris Bryant: For two years, I worked for the BBC as head of European affairs, and spent most of my time dealing with the European copyright directive.
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  I am therefore an amateurish expert on copyright, particularly its application to broadcast media. I am sure that in the next year we shall look at incorporation of the copyright directive in United Kingdom law, so the Bill is particularly useful and timely. By its nature, copyright is a creature of legislation. Before 1709, there was no such concept as copyright in UK law other than the right given to publishers, as opposed to authors, for their books not to be copied by other people. In 1709, the Statute of Anne gave copyright to the author, rather than the publisher; that copyright applied to the work, rather than the book itself.
  The Bill is important. The advent of the computer or, for that matter, that of the photocopier in, I think, 1949, has made it far easier for people to copy and the general public to get used to copying without considering that they might be stealing from somebody else. If that is the case, it is all the more important to give stronger teeth to the law that provides back-up and essential support to copyright owners.
  Mr. Gardiner: Is my hon. Friend aware that each year many children go into music exams, play their pieces, and are told by the examiners at the end that they will not receive any mark because they have used copyright music? The entire examination is invalidated. It is a great testimony to the boards of music that they take so seriously the infringement of the copyright of the music publishers that they refuse to issue a grade to the student, who must resit the exam at a subsequent date.
  Mr. Bryant: I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. I was not aware of the recondite matter of music examinations. I never got very far with my cello lessons.
  My hon. Friend's remarks help to underline the fact that in any delineation of copyright, the private, economic and moral rights that adhere to the copyright holder, and the criminal sanctions that apply to those who infringe copyright, it is important for us to bear in mind the rights-holder's interests and to allow fair dealing exemptions, as has been the practice in British common law.
  For example, much of the discussion on the continent in recent years has been about whether, when one is filming for the news outside the Lloyd's building, there should be an exemption for the copyright building, which is shown on the news. In other countries in Europe, there is no exemption for such buildings, and in theory, the newscaster must get permission from the copyright owner—the architect who designed the building—before it can be shown on the news. Most of us in this country would consider that a rather foolish way to proceed.
  The concept of copyright in English common law is very different from the droit d'auteur under the French Napoleonic code, which affects most of the rest of European law on the matter. We need strong sanctions in this country, which has founded most of its industrial success over the past 250 years on the ability to create new ideas, patent them, tale them forward into the marketplace and build financial value out of creativity. That is why I welcome the Bill.

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  Already, in some of the press coverage of the Bill and in television discussions about it, it has come across strongly that the process of protecting the rights of copyright and patent owners needs to be strengthened, and that the process of copying and the buying of cheap goods from a street stall on a Friday afternoon—rip-off or fake goods—is not in anyone's interest, other than the thieves. The Bill will play an important role in transforming public perceptions about rights-holders.
  There are many rights-holders who still have a complicated relationship to copyright. I shall give a small example. A designer of theatre sets would usually keep the copyright for ever. For instance, the designer of the set for "Les Miserables"—however one wants to pronounce that—
  Mr. Peter Luff: The Glums.
  Mr. Bryant: I thank the hon. Gentleman.
  The set designer has retained his copyright throughout, and made a significant amount of money. That is not true of rights-holders who provide sets for television programmes.
  There are many areas in which copyright still has to be reformed and in respect of which we must consider more closely the process whereby an individual earns his money. In the end, that is what we are talking about: people spending often vast amounts of money, time, and creative and physical energy to produce ideas that can be brought to a market. Stealing that intellectual property should be a crime that receives the full sanction of the law. The legal sanctions that are currently available are too limited—the problem that the Bill would help to remedy—and are difficult to impose, for the simple reason that it is hard for the police and relevant authorities to pursue people who are infringing the copyright of others.
  I should like to make one final point that is important in terms of the public perception of what is happening. People should not start to worry about suddenly being unable to record a television programme that is broadcast on a Monday and then watch it on a Wednesday. The copyright directive, which we will doubtless incorporate into law in the next 12 to 18 months, and also other provisions in current UK law, make it clear that there should be a fair-dealing exemption, just as there are exemptions for research, private study, the reporting of current events and so on. It is important that fair-dealing exemptions remain in place and that we do not take those rights for granted. We must not only pursue them, but ensure that those who have brought to the world their great ideas and imaginative creations are given an opportunity to earn a decent crust from doing so.
  I should add that it is, in many ways, no surprise that Trollope said that if one takes away from English authors their copyright, one takes away from England its authors. That is true of every single one of the industries that are affected by patent and copyright law. If one takes away the sanctions that they require and which the Bill would enhance, one takes away their opportunity to earn an honest crust.
  2.2 pm
  Mr. Peter Luff: It is a great pleasure to make a brief contribution to the debate and to see in the Chamber the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Mr. Miller), who promoted a similar Bill in the previous Parliament.
  I entirely agree with everything that has been said so far. I rise to speak because my constituency is the home of the European Leisure Software Publishers Association, which is situated in the village of Offenham. I have had regular correspondence with the association over the years. It has been lobbying actively for the introduction of a Bill such as this, so it is a pleasure briefly to express my support in the House.
  We are told that the Alliance Against Counterfeiting and Piracy estimates that UK industry loses almost £9 billion a year—a figure that has been mentioned—at a cost to the Treasury of £1.5 billion in receipts. This is, therefore, a private Member's Bill that seems not to spend money for the Government, but to raise it, which is unusual. A third of the losses to which I have referred occur in the interactive leisure games software industry, at a cost of some £3 billion a year. As the Alliance Against Counterfeiting and Piracy says:
  "With losses of this magnitude, there is a possibility that innovation could be stifled. Why should a business pay millions of pounds to research, develop and market a new product only to find that the expected profits are wiped out by counterfeiters, pirates or producers of look-alike goods?"
  That is absolutely right.
  The UK electronic games market, which is of particular interest to me, has recently seen huge growth in the UK. Of course, there is enormous British innovation in that industry, which, I am told, has grown by some 111 per cent. in the past three years—a surprisingly accurate figure. As it costs some £2 million to produce a top-selling interactive programme, one can see how much more growth could occur in that market if the Bill were enacted, so I very much hope that it reaches the statute book.
  However, we are considering the interests not only of the industry, but of consumers and the general public. ELSPA, the organisation in my constituency, has said that, in 80 per cent. of the raids that it has carried out in the past year, evidence was found of additional crimes ranging from fraud and drug-running to prostitution and child pornography.
  I especially welcome the fact that the Bill matches trademark law, and that infringements will therefore no longer be a low risk option for organised crime. Hon. Members should be pleased about that. The former Royal Ulster Constabulary recently arrested three suspects, who were in possession of thousands of pirate videos and CDs. They believe that the Real IRA used counterfeiting as a major source of funding. The Bill has major, wide implications and I hope that it will reach the statute book as quickly as possible.
  2.5 pm
  Mr. John Whittingdale: I warmly congratulate the hon. Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable), not only on his result in the

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  ballot but on the subject that he has chosen for the Bill. If I had been as fortunate as him, I would have seriously considered introducing such a Bill. The best help that I can give it is to be brief.
  The Bill will offer significant extra protection to the creative industries. In this country, we have an extraordinarily good reputation in those industries. I have an especial interest in the music industry, which has not always had the recognition that it deserves for its contribution to our economy and our country. Its economic value is approximately £4.6 billion and we have long been successful in it. If we consider the charts or record sales in almost any country in the world, British acts feature at the top.
  It has occasionally been reported that I have an interest in rock music. To give one example, I like Iron Maiden, not only because of its admirable name but because of its music. There are people in Japan whose knowledge of this country and impetus for learning English is based on support for a British band such as Iron Maiden. In garages, sheds and barns in every constituency, young people are making music, hoping to become successful musicians one day. They can do that only if the record industry continues to thrive. The Bill offers it extra protection, which it badly needs.
  The British film industry is worth approximately £3 billion. It is successful at making widely recognised movies, such as "The Full Monty" or "East is East". Major films such as the "Star Wars" series, "Saving Private Ryan", "The Mummy" and the Harry Potter film were made in this country.
  My hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Worcestershire (Mr. Luff) mentioned ELSPA. Like me, he is the father of young children and I am sure that he is familiar with games such as "Tomb Raider" and "Quake". I have been known to assist my son in playing them.
  All those industries make a major contribution to our economy and are under threat. The music industry estimates that copyright theft results in 1.8 billion units of pirated material on the global market. Almost a third of CDs are pirate copies. That does great damage to many firms that are involved in marketing intellectual property. My hon. Friend the Member for Huntingdon (Mr. Djanogly), who is unfortunately unable to be present, has drawn my attention to two firms in his constituency. The Producers is based in St. Ives and says that it has lost £1.5 million through counterfeiting. Just Flight is also based in St. Ives and has lost £1 million due to counterfeiting.
  It is normal practice in debate for hon. Members to refer to their constituencies with pride. However, I read an item in my local paper with no pride. It gave an account of a raid that took place on a chicken shed outside Maldon a few months ago. It led to the discovery of a pirate CD factory with 50,000 CDs and 200,000 pieces of forged art work. The person responsible was prosecuted and was recently jailed for 21 months. I derive no pleasure from one of my constituents being sent to jail, but I welcome such a sentence because it may increase the recognition
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  that such activities constitute theft. The hon. Member for Twickenham was right to state that fact clearly. Intellectual property is as valuable as material property and it deserves the same protection.
  My hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Worcestershire rightly pointed out that it is not only small-scale enterprises in chicken sheds that are involved. Organised crime is heavily involved and even terrorists now see the enormous sums that can be made from illegal counterfeiting activity. There is a need for increased protection and the hon. Member for Twickenham has made a powerful case for tightening the law. We, the official Opposition, fully support his Bill and I hope that it will pass on to the statute book in due course.
  2.10 pm
  The Minister for Employment and the Regions (Alan Johnson): The Bill is before the House for a second time. I was not present for its first appearance, although my Parliamentary Private Secretary, my hon. Friend the Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Mr. Miller) was, as it was his Bill. I am pleased to be here today to confirm that the Government continue to lend their full support to the measures in the Bill. We are grateful to the hon. Member for Twickenham (Dr. Cable) for introducing it in this Session. He is the father of an opera singer, and if we are declaring our interests I should say that my eldest son wasted his degree by becoming a musician, recording engineer and contracted songwriter, so I know all about the issues.
  The previous Bill, unfortunately, failed through lack of time. To make sure that that does not happen today, I shall confine my remarks to specific issues. First, I want to make it absolutely clear that the Bill is designed to deal more effectively and appropriately with those who use the results of other people's creativity and investment deliberately and without permission with the intention of making money for themselves. It is directed against those who use property—intellectual property—that does not belong to them for profit and in the knowledge that doing so is wrong.
  The effect of that theft on the owners of IP rights is clear. The hon. Member for Twickenham, my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Mr. Bryant) and the hon. Member for Mid-Worcestershire (Mr. Luff) have explored the wider effects. Consumers are often cheated, although we sometimes have a hard job convincing them of that. Jobs in legitimate businesses, from high street shops to big manufacturing plants, are put at risk, are lost or are simply not created in the first place. I suspect that examples of that can be found in the constituencies of the majority of MPs.
  Perhaps most alarming are the links between IP crime and serious organised crime, which are becoming more and more apparent. The latest threat assessment from the National Criminal Intelligence Service noted that more than two thirds of the organised crime groups reported to be involved in IP theft were known also to be involved in drugs trafficking. Furthermore, groups involved in organised immigration crime are known to use illegal immigrants as cheap labour working in sweatshops producing counterfeit goods.
  IP crime is neither a victimless crime nor one committed by lovable rogues. We cannot cheerfully ignore it. Tackling IP crime opens up the possibility of

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  having an impact on serious crime in general in the UK. By investigating the selling of fakes in street markets, law enforcers may uncover much other wrongdoing, from VAT fraud to drug dealing. We must therefore provide law enforcers with the tools they need to do that work effectively, where they deem that to be appropriate.
  The Bill rightly addresses some of the inconsistencies between related provisions in the current law that was set in 1988 on copyright, and in 1994 on trademarks. Perhaps there are ways around the loopholes that the Bill would close, but it remains an extremely useful measure in terms of making the job of enforcers, especially the police, easier and making the law more transparent. Greater transparency will provide clearer deterrence and it might convince some of those who regard IP crime as a soft option not to engage in it.
  The Bill is not over-ambitious for a private Member's Bill. Despite its apparent complexity, no part of it is not more or less copied from provisions already in IP law. In many ways, it is fair to regard the Bill as a harmonising measure that equalises criminal provisions between trademark law and copyright law where differences make no sense.
  Of course, not all cases of IP crime are equally serious and it is certainly not possible to argue that all cases of trademark theft should attract the current maximum penalty of an unlimited fine and/or up to 10 years in prison. However, in the most serious cases, in which industry may have lost millions of pounds, consumers may have been badly deceived by fakes and there may have been wider effects on society, that sentence might be justified and should be available as a sentencing option. We cannot justify the continuation of the much less severe maximum penalty for a copyright offence, which is currently a fine and/or a maximum term of imprisonment of only two years. Copyright theft can be just as serious as trademark theft. There is no justification for the difference.
  There is already a provision permitting the police to seek search warrants if they have reasonable grounds for believing that some of the copyright offences have been or are about to be committed, so applying that more widely across IP offences makes sense, too. Copying the existing, useful trademark provisions on forfeiture of illegal goods that have beer seized during an investigation into the copyright and related areas is also worth while.
  In supporting the Bill, the Government have carefully considered its human rights implications. We have taken advice on that very important matter and believe the Bill to be compatible with the European convention on human rights. Its provisions provide a balanced and acceptable solution to the problems of IP crime.
  All those in the public and private sectors with an interest in fighting IP crime are collaborating more and more closely. Relevant issues are discussed at a strategic level in the Counterfeiting and Piracy Forum, which brings representatives from the private and public sectors around the same table with the Government. Earlier this year, the Government supported the signing of a memorandum of understanding between all the public
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  sector enforcement interests—including the police, Customs and trading standards officers—and industry bodies active against IP crime on behalf of their members. We will continue to explore and facilitate co-operative and closer working where we can.
  Mr. Luff: Can the Minister give the House an idea of the Bill's implications for the single market? Are there any European implications of which we should be aware before giving the Bill a Second Reading?
  Alan Johnson: Not as far as I am aware, but if that statement turns out not to be true when inspiration hits me in a few moments time, I will write to the hon. Gentleman.
  Raising public awareness about the effects of IP crime is an extremely difficult job and we are under no illusion that success will be easy. We have supported several awareness-raising activities, including the launch last year in north-west England of a Crimestoppers campaign against counterfeiting. That limited campaign had some lasting effects on public perceptions, and led to an increased number of reports of criminal activity. We are pleased, therefore, to support the launch in early December of a national Crimestoppers campaign. After a launch event in London, there will be a rolling programme of regional events that will, we hope, attract the public's attention.
  That activity will continue regardless of the fate of the Bill. The Bill delivers a useful rationalisation of the law applying to IP theft, and the support of the House today will play a significant part in raising awareness of the crime, which certainly is not victimless. A judge sentencing two Russian criminals in London earlier this year for an operation involving significant counterfeiting of CDs, linked to credit card fraud, said that it was a
  "sophisticated, well organised and well planned fraud".
  The Bill will play a part in helping to fight such crimes.
  Thinking on my feet, as always, and unconnected with this piece of paper that has been passed to me, I have realised that the Bill raises no EU obligations. The EU is considering IP enforcement issues, but no firm proposals have yet been made. I hope that I have avoided the need for a letter to the hon. Member for Mid-Worcestershire.
  In conclusion, the Government support the Bill and all the rationalisations that it will introduce. We hope that other Members will do likewise. IP crime is an important issue that needs to be treated more seriously. It is as bad as other crimes in that general area. I know that many members of the public do not feel harmed by IP crime because they like the idea of a bargain. However, IP crime is not about bargains; it is about criminals and serious harm to us all. It is a crime that is almost certainly committed in every constituency in the UK. That is why we must give the Bill a Second Reading. I reaffirm the Government's intention to continue to offer it support in its later stages.
  Question put and agreed to.
  Bill accordingly read a Second time, and committed to a Standing Committee, pursuant to Standing Order No. 63 (Committal of Bills).

  Relationships (Civil Registration) Bill
  Order for Second Reading read.
  2.21 pm
  Jane Griffiths: I beg to move, That the Bill be read a Second time.
  Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): The hon. Lady should say "now".
  Jane Griffiths: Now.
  Mr. Deputy Speaker: Perhaps I should explain. I am now calling the hon. Lady to move the Second Reading of her Bill if she so wishes.
  Jane Griffiths: Thank you for your guidance, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
  Since I sought leave to introduce the Bill in this House on 24 October last, there has been considerable publicity surrounding the issue that it addresses. Some of it is intended, I suspect, to misinform right hon. and hon. Members about the nature of the Bill. I have seen letters from certain organisations stating that it relates to gay marriages. It does nothing of the sort—it is not about marriage and would have no effect on the institution of marriage.
  Mr. Michael Fallon: Would it not have assisted in clearing away some of the confusion surrounding the Bill if its terms had been more clearly defined? For example, it is rather unusual to have "registrar" defined, but not "relationship". Perhaps if the hon. Lady had defined the kind of relationship that she wanted to cover, it might have been easier for those of us who take an interest in the Bill to be clear about what she was trying to change.
  Jane Griffiths: I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman has not understood the terms in which the Bill is couched. I believe that the term "relationship" is quite clear as the Bill has been drafted.
  The Bill would introduce legal protection for people who live in partnerships with each other, especially at times of bereavement when they suffer inhumane, unfair and degrading treatment. If they have suddenly and tragically lost their life partner and are prohibited from registering the death, they may have to seek out their partner's sibling, for example—whom they may not have been in contact with for many years or at all—to ask them to do so. They become a non-person, despite having shared their partner's life, home and probably finances for many years. That is unjust and unfair in the 21st century.
  The Bill would rectify that position and give legal protection so that if people choose to take on the rights and responsibilities of sharing a life with another person, they can register that choice. That will confer on them certain legal protections in terms of inheritance, pensions and insurance.
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  I have had discussions with serving police officers in the Thames Valley police about pension rights. They pay 11 per cent. of their salary into the police pension scheme. As I understand it, it would take legislation to alter the way in which the scheme is run, but at present some 1,500 Thames Valley police officers are unmarried. A large proportion of them will not marry, for many reasons that it would take too long to discuss. None the less, all those officers must pay 11 per cent. of their salary into the police pension scheme. When they die, their pension dies with them. They may be sharing their life with someone, but they have no opportunity to give their surviving partner the proportion of their pension that people who are married can give.
  Mr. Chris Bryant: I am sure that my hon. Friend is aware that one of the early things that we did in this Parliament was to rectify the situation for ourselves. Does she believe that the Bill will help the rest of the country to move in a direction for which we have already legislated for ourselves?
  Jane Griffiths: I was coming to that. We must consider how it looks to the outside world if Members of Parliament vote to alter our pension scheme so that we can give some financial security to a partner who may not be married to us, yet deny that opportunity to others outside the House.
  The vast majority of public sector pension schemes do not offer that protection to their members. Private sector schemes often do, but it is easier for them to alter and develop the way in which they are conducted because they have trustees who can agree such matters. Schemes such as the police pension scheme require a rather larger move to be altered. The Bill seeks to rectify that position. Under the Bill, all pension schemes would have to provide the opportunity of pension protection within three years for their members.
  Bereavement may happen suddenly, and serious illness may happen unexpectedly. People who live together usually make provision for each other by making a will so that the property that they share is available to the surviving partner, but it is not possible for people who are not married to make that provision in full in every way.
  I do not intend even to discuss the institution of marriage. People marry for a great many reasons—religious, emotional, or because they wish to make a public commitment to the world. However, there are people who cannot marry for legal reasons and people who choose not to marry for other reasons, perhaps based on previous life experience. In Thames Valley police a high proportion of the officers are in that position.
  An officer spoke to me yesterday and said that she was married to another police officer. They had decided to get married because they wanted pension protection. She did not feel very good about that. She felt that it was the wrong reason for marrying; that she had sullied the institution of marriage by marrying for that reason. I seek to remove the pressure on people who may share their lives together so that they may choose to marry—most couples do at some point—unfettered by the fear that one's surviving partner could be made homeless due to inheritance tax or would not have a right to their pension if they did not marry. Many pressures and difficulties would apply to unmarried partners that do not apply to

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  married partners. The reasons for marriage should not be financial—they should not be mercenary. The reasons that people marry should be emotional and may be religious, depending on the faith of the person.
  My wish to introduce the Bill was inspired by—
  Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order.
  It being half-past Two o'clock, the debate stood adjourned.
  Debate to be resumed on Friday 10 May.

  Remaining Private Member's Bill

    HEALTH (AIR TRAVELLERS) BILL
    Question proposed, That the Bill be read a second time.
    Hon. Members: Object.
    Debate to be resumed on Friday 25 January.

  Residential Care Homes (Essex)
  Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—[Mr. Stringer.]
  2.30 pm
  John Cryer: May I begin by thanking you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for selecting this subject for debate? I also thank the Under-Secretary of State for Health, my hon. Friend the hon. Member for Salford (Ms Blears), who will respond to the debate. Ministers must feel that they have drawn the short straw when they have to reply to the Friday afternoon Adjournment debate, so I thank my hon. Friend for being here.
  My main aim in this debate is to consider the loss of local authority beds, delayed discharge, and high bed occupancy—especially in the acute health economy—in the boroughs of Barking and Dagenham and of Havering, and their relationship to the operation of the national health service throughout our area. I am glad that my hon. Friend the Member for Dagenham (Jon Cruddas) is in the Chamber. This is an enormous issue for the areas that we represent.
  I shall quote from the Treasury Minute on the first report of the Public Accounts Committee 2000–01 "Inpatient Admission, Bed Management and Patient Discharge in NHS Acute Hospitals". It states:
  "There is a clear relationship between high bed occupancy and the risk of cancelling elective admissions. This risk becomes very pronounced at occupancy levels above 83 per cent. Bed occupancy rates in hospitals ranged from around 50 per cent to 99 per cent in 1997–98. The average across all hospitals was 81 per cent."
  On 17 October, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health gave evidence on the same subject to the Select Committee on Health. He said:
  "What you cannot do is provide the optimum levels of emergency care or shorter waiting times in hospital unless outside the hospital you have a social care system that is operating more effectively and in cooperation with the local health service."
  On 24 October, he said:
  "We have commissioned research from York University which the Committee can see, which indicates that if you get occupancy rates in excess of 82 per cent you start getting a higher level of cancelled operations taking place at the last minute … What we have been looking at very closely is what we can then do to get occupancy levels down from around 89 or 90 per cent at the moment across the NHS … The problem is that it"—
  the hospital sector—
  "becomes less efficient the more you get above 82 per cent"
  bed occupancy rate.
  That is clear. Occupancy rates of more than 82 per cent. diminish the efficiency of the sector and create other problems across the health economy.
  Oldchurch hospital is a big accident and emergency hospital that serves my area, as well as that of my hon. Friend the Member for Dagenham and several other hon. Members. A press release issued recently by Barking, Havering and Redbridge Hospitals NHS trust stated that the bed occupancy rate is currently running at 97 per cent.
  Jon Cruddas: Does my hon. Friend agree that the problem affects not only his constituents in Hornchurch and Havering but those in Barking and Dagenham? Recent figures that I have received from the trust show that 54 of the 154 delayed discharges, or

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  blocked beds, affected Barking and Dagenham constituents. Does he agree that the consequential effects of the problem are so great—the cancelled operations and the implications for the functioning of the accident and emergency centre—that urgent action is needed from the Department of Health, local authorities and the trust itself?
  John Cryer: Yes, I agree with my hon. Friend that that is a problem right across the health economy.
  Delayed discharges are a problem in our area, partly because its population is, on average, one of the oldest in any Greater London borough. In fact, Havering might have the oldest population of any borough. Barking and Dagenham also has an elderly and ageing population. Barking, Havering and Redbridge Hospitals NHS trust issued a press release on 12 November. It uses the term "bed blocking"—a phrase that I detest. I prefer to use the phrase "delayed discharges", which is far more accurate and sympathetic. Nevertheless, it uses that phrase and says:
  "We currently have 160 beds 'blocked' which means we have 160 people who are medically fit for discharge but cannot return to their own homes. This may be that they are unable to look after themselves or require support to undertake tasks essential for daily living, such as cooking."
  So there is clearly a high level of delayed discharges.
  I should mention the fact that the Government made £500,000 available to the London borough of Havering so that it could deal with delayed discharges and try to get people back to their homes, or at least into accommodation elsewhere. I pay tribute to the Department of Health for making that money available to the local authority. I have lobbied it for that money in the past, as have other people and bodies. However, that money will not solve the kind of long-term problems that we have in Barking, Havering and Dagenham.
  Undoubtedly, we do not have the necessary residential care capacity, either in the public or private sectors. Havering council is presently engaged in a programme of closing care homes in my constituency and throughout the borough. For example, The Grange—a residential care home for elderly people in the Romford constituency—has just closed with the loss of 37 beds. Maybank Lodge is a very fine home in my constituency. The people who live there are very happy, as are those who go to the day centre there, but it is facing closure with the loss of 43 beds. Only two people—Vic and Edie—still live there, and they are determined to stay there as long as they possibly can. They have been to court to try to save the place that they have regarded as their home for some years.
  More closures are scheduled. I have always disagreed with the policy of closing local authority care homes. I have campaigned against it and made my views absolutely clear in my constituency, in Havering and on the Floor of the House. One of the key factors in the home closure programme is the appalling level of the standard spending assessment handed out to Havering, year after year. That is not the current Government's fault; it is a historical fact that goes back at least to the fall of the poll tax and actually to the 1950s and 1960s.
  In fact, under this Government, the settlements given to the local authority have been much more generous than those given to it when the Conservatives were in power.
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  Nevertheless, when starting from a low base, even if a borough's settlement is increased by a high percentage, it still does not help a lot because it is continually playing catch-up with neighbouring boroughs. Boroughs with a similar socio-economic mix as Havering tend to get a much better SSA. That plays a key part in the destruction of care homes in the London borough of Havering.
  There is no evidence—certiinly not in our borough—that the private sector has anything like the capacity or ability to provide the necessary care for elderly people. In fact, some private care homes have closed.
  I was very pleased that in the trust's recent plans for a new Oldchurch hospital, which will be built on a site opposite the existing hospital, the number of beds was increased by 60, although the original proposal contained a cut in bed numbers. That decision was reversed following a long-standing campaign for a new hospital carried out by myself and others.
  The trust is consulting on the provision of 83 intermediate care beds, and I would appreciate it if my hon. Friend could comment on the status and role of those beds. Their provision is comparatively recent—they have come in in the past few years—so how does she see them interplaying with acute beds and other sectors of the local health economy?
  However, the increase in the number of acute beds and the introduction of intermediate beds over the next few years will not compensate for the loss of beds in the care sector. In the next few years, Havering could face a crisis in long-term care for the elderly. Will my hon. Friend say something about that?
  When we came into office in 1997, we faced an invidious position in respect of long-term care for the elderly. I would argue that probably the first big privatisation post-1979 was that involving long-term care for the elderly. In 1970, long-term care beds in the NHS outnumbered those in the private sector by two to one. By 1990, the position had been reversed: beds in the private sector outnumbered those in the NHS by two to one. By the time that we came to power in 1997, long-term care beds in the NHS had virtually been obliterated. During 18 years of Tory Government, the number of beds overall in the NHS was cut by a third and many of them were in the long-term care sector. We have had to live with that inheritance and we shall have to live with it for some time to come.
  Given an ageing population and all the problems in the health sector, many of which we inherited, delayed discharge is clearly a national problem. However, from what I glean, it appears that Barking, Dagenham, Havering and Redbridge—the health authority also covers the London borough of Redbridge—is the worst area in Greater London for delayed discharges.
  The key factor is to provide even more resources. Although the Government have provided additional resources for coping with problems in the health economy, we need more resources to go into long-term care for the elderly and into acute and intermediate beds. I hope that my hon. Friend will say something about that.
  I also hope that my hon. Friend will say something about the royal commission on long-term care for the elderly. It made some constructive suggestions on how we could resolve the problems, so perhaps she will comment on them.
  2.42 pm
  The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Ms Hazel Blears): I reassure my hon. Friends the Members for Hornchurch (John Cryer) and for Dagenham (Jon Cruddas) that there is almost nothing that I would rather be doing on a Friday afternoon than replying to this debate. The issues that they have raised are extremely important for hundreds of thousands of people throughout the country, and not just those in their constituencies. It is right that we should debate them.
  My hon. Friends have highlighted the need to try to ensure that we have a seamless system so that we can effectively treat people—particularly elderly people—in the right place, at the right time and with the right kind of care. Therefore, making the connection between acute care, residential care, intermediate care and care at home is one of the biggest challenges facing us and everyone in the health service, social services, local government and the sector as a whole.
  My hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch pointed out that the issues relate to the whole system of health care. The problem of elderly people being kept in hospital for far too long is not only bad for them—instead of being in acute hospitals, they should be in residential care or supported at home—but it affects our ability to carry out elective care to ensure that people's operations are not cancelled and that they take place on time.
  Furthermore, at the front end of the hospital system, the problem means that people who need care in accident and emergency or casualty departments are unable to be assessed and cannot find a bed because people at the other end of the hospital are kept in for far too long. Therefore, we should not view the issue in isolation. We need to put all the solutions in the right place.
  Mr. Andrew Rosindell: Will the Minister give way?
  Ms Blears: No, I want to finish my response.
  We need to ensure that a proper system is in place.
  My hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch is also worried about the capacity of residential beds, especially in his community. The overall number of care homes in England is falling. There is concern about capacity across the country which is having an impact on hospital discharges. Providers of residential care places are worried about the level of fees that are paid to them. Some care homes have had to close, which is another problem that we face. I hope that I can reassure my hon. Friends and deal with the local matters that they raised.
  The Government reached an agreement on 9 October with local social services departments. Building capacity and partnership in care is a concordat between the national health service and the social care system to discover whether we can put in place longer-term measures to increase the capacity of residential care in our communities. It is not good enough to have an on-the-spot purchasing policy. The system needs to be sustainable so that authorities can plan provision over years instead of facing the vagaries of the market.
  The agreement sets out a range of principles and practices on how to build capacity and to make the fees that are paid to care home owners adequate so that they can continue to provide care. It will also consider how we
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  can involve nurses, residential care workers, home care workers and people who work in sheltered housing in the system so that we provide the right care for people in the right place at the right time.
  An important aspect of the agreement is its ability to be dynamic and flexible so that as circumstances change the contracting arrangements between local authorities and the residential care sector can change as well. My hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch concentrated on the number of beds. That is a crucial issue, but we need to be innovative and creative in providing extra capacity. It is not simply a case of providing beds in residential care homes or hospitals. We need to put in place many more domiciliary care packages to provide hospital treatment at home. The vast majority of elderly people want to live independently in their homes if they can manage to do so. We have not been quick enough or creative enough in recent years to put in place extensive support packages that enable people to stay at home. Obviously there comes a time in people's lives when that is no longer possible and we have to ensure that good residential care is available, but we can find greater capacity by being more creative with our schemes.
  Many authorities are thinking of setting up "fall" clinics that offer advice to elderly people on simple aids and adaptations to their homes, such as rails to ensure that they do not fall down the stairs. If an elderly person has a fall, they are far more likely to suffer a fracture and to be admitted to hospital where the institutional surroundings make them more dependent, which puts them on a vicious spiral that robs them of their ability to care for themselves. If we stop the fall occurring, we not only prevent the system from incurring huge costs, but improve dramatically that elderly person's quality of life. We need to do far more in terms of outreach teams and helping people to survive in their own homes.
  We have provided £300 million over the next two years to tackle delayed discharges. It is a cash-for-change programme. The money comes with a commitment to change the way in which we have acted. Both my hon. Friends recognised that we have been in this situation for a number of years and the stop-gap mentality cannot continue. The systems that we put in place have to take us forward. The £300 million for delayed discharge is in addition to £900 million that has been earmarked for the rapid development of intermediate care, such as step-up, step-down facilities, so that people who do not need intense acute care have access in the community to more appropriate treatment. Sometimes people need nursing care rather than acute intervention. As my hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch said, that sector is new, but it is growing at a tremendous rate.
  Of the £100 million allocated this year, we have focused £47 million on the 55 councils that need most help. We recognise that some local authorities have a big problem, but we want to help every authority, so the remaining £43.5 million is being distributed to the other 100 councils on the basis of the standard spending assessment. A balance is being struck: we have allocated disproportionate amounts to the places with the greatest problems to try to bring them up to speed, but we are providing support for everybody because we know that there is a problem nationwide.
  I agree entirely with my hon. Friend about the phrase "bed blocking". It is not one that I want to use, as the problem involves people being delayed in hospital. We

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  must never forget that they are real people; they are not simply the occupants of beds. My hon. Friend is right that many hospitals are running at 97 or 98 per cent. capacity and the fact is that, once such a rate is reached, the knock-on effect on trolley waits and cancelled operations becomes all too apparent.
  For the past 30 years or so, the received wisdom has been that we need fewer NHS beds. About 40,000 were lost in the last years of the previous Administration, but we are reversing the trend completely and this is the first year in which the number of general and acute beds has risen. The NHS plan sets a target to increase the number of general and acute beds by 2,100 by 2004. The latest figures, published this September, show that we are a third of the way there—an increase of more than 700 general and acute care beds in the past year.
  We are beginning to turn things around, recognising that we need to increase capacity, and my hon. Friend generously acknowledged the increase of 60 beds at the new hospital that will be built at Oldchurch. I understand that there will also be an extra 19 beds at the King George hospital, which is exploring a new clinical model for organising its services and will be able to achieve extra capacity.
  As both my hon. Friends are aware, a share of the extra £300 million to tackle delayed discharges has been received by Barking and Dagenham and by Havering. Barking and Dagenham got £480,000 and Havering received an additional £555,000, so almost £1 million is going into that community. It will have a significant impact on the ability of social services to purchase additional care and reorganise the way in which they support people through outreach teams, help at home, working with sheltered housing and working with all the other partners. I acknowledge that my hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch thinks that even more resources are necessary, but we have an extra £200 million to spend next year from the £300 million in total and I hope that it makes a significant impact on the problems there.
  Recognising that this is a whole-system problem, not simply one of delayed discharges, the Government are trying to tackle the difficulties at every stage in the hospital system. We have allocated extra funds to the NHS locally, so Barking, Havering and Redbridge Hospitals NHS trust received £254,000 in October to tackle longer waiting lists and ensure that, by next March, nobody has to wait more than 15 months for an operation.
  That money is being used to fund extra theatre lists in the trust, and orthopaedic and ophthalmic patients have been transferred to the independent sector to create and free up capacity so that more people can come in for elective operations and there is no problem of cancelled operations, which devastate the patients concerned. Often they have been prepared for surgery, but suddenly the operation is cancelled. We are absolutely determined to try to ensure that that does not happen.
  We also allocated £50 million at the beginning of November to reduce occupancy and trolley waits. Barking, Havering and Redbridge Hospitals NHS trust received £490,000. It has used £400,000 for patients
  648
  requiring joint replacement and surgical work, so again capacity is increased and people get through the system more quickly. It has also commissioned 25 additional step-down intermediate care beds on the Harold Wood site. Patients waiting for discharge from the Oldchurch hospital site can be nursed in those beds, freeing up an extra 25 beds in the acute hospital to ensure that elective admissions get through as well.
  I am sorry that I am citing rather a long list, but the Government have been extremely active recently in all the areas that I have mentioned. The most recent allocation of money from the centre was to reform emergency care. We issued a reform of emergency care strategy. That was a £50 million package to get additional nurses into A and E, and to provide a better assessment system to enable people to get through the system more quickly. The local trust will receive £154,000 this year to provide additional nurses for the two A and E departments. A further £632,000 will be provided next year, to try to ensure that patients in A and E receive the right care at the right time in the right place.
  If we can get streaming systems into A and E departments that ensure that patients are dealt with by the appropriate level of staff—people with simple needs can be dealt with by nurses, and people with complex matters can be dealt with by consultants—we will be able to reduce waiting times. That will enable us to ensure that we increase capacity for elective operations, get people out of hospital more quickly once their need for acute care has been dealt with and then get them into residential care. We shall then see a flow of people through the system, with no one waiting any longer than is necessary at any stage of care.
  Mr. Rosindell: Will the Minister give way?
  Ms Blears: No. I have a few more comments to make and I am not in a position to give way to the hon. Gentleman.
  My hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch mentioned that Havering council is undertaking a review of its care homes. I know he is concerned about doing that. It is clear that it wants to ensure that in future it is able to meet care standards and to provide the highest quality care for local people, with privacy and dignity. I understand that it will establish four new resource centres that will be capable of meeting people's care needs—there will be not merely accommodation but activities. The centres will try to ensure, however, that people are looked after properly in the community.
  I understand that the council is developing innovative packages of care for local people. It is being creative and imaginative in trying to ensure that people are given a reasonable quality of life in residential care. Many of us have visited care homes, and I am sure that some of us have expressed concern on occasion that sometimes there is little activity for people in such settings. We should ensure that people are engaged in proper activities. It is crucial that they should be able to get out and about and live a full life.
  In some areas, bed occupancy in care homes is extremely high. I am aware that in London and the south-east there is a shortage of care home accommodation. I understand that nationally there are still some vacancies in the care home sector. The picture is

  649
  not uniform. However, I am aware of the stresses and strains on residential care in some areas. That is why discussions have been taking place with providers to try to ensure that we can pay them the appropriate sums and give them the certainty that they can plan their provision so they can look forward to a future in which they can provide high quality care for local people.
  I am encouraged that last year about 5 per cent. more households received intensive home care packages, compared with the previous year. That tells me that we are beginning to see a shift from simply residential care to supporting people at home. In many instances, it is intensive care. For example, it is possible for a home-care worker to be arranged to visit someone perhaps three times a day, six days a week for four weeks, to try to ensure that someone who has had a fracture is given intensive support when they first go home. That will enable that person to re-establish their routines, including cooking and shopping. Such individuals will be able to begin to look after themselves again.
  It is crucial that the workers who help the elderly in such circumstances try to ensure that they get those elderly people to regain their self-confidence. Often, after an elderly person has had a fall, there is a loss of self-confidence and he or she no longer wants to venture out. Eventually, it is necessary for the individual to go
  650
  into residential care because of what has happened to them. That is not necessarily the result of illness or physical things that go wrong.
  It is vital that we try to ensure that elderly people, as far as possible, are encouraged to retain their independence. We must try to give them as much choice as possible in determining how and where they receive care. We are able to pursue a range of initiatives because we have put extra funding into the system to try to ensure that we do not have one size that fits all. We want elderly people and their families to be involved in considering options and in making decisions that are right for themselves.
  We will probably see a reduction in reliance on traditional care homes. There will probably be a move towards domiciliary care packages and independence. We have a hugely challenging agenda. I have tried to set out the considerable amount of extra resources that the Government are providing in all stages of the care system and all stages of NHS care.
  The motion having been made after half-past Two o'clock, and the debate having continued for half an hour, MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.
  Adjourned at Three o 'clock.

SOLICITOR-GENERAL

  Bona Vacantia
  Mr. Kidney
  To ask the Solicitor-General what plans she has to reform the application of bona vacantia. [14669]

  The Solicitor-General
  As a result of my hon. Friend's question, I am looking at how bona vacantia is operated and will report back to him on any changes that may arise.

  Bribery
  Hugh Bayley
  To ask the Solicitor-General how many United Kingdom citizens have been prosecuted in the United Kingdom in the last five years for offences of bribery committed abroad. [14670]

  The Solicitor-General
  No United Kingdom citizens have been prosecuted for offences in the UK of bribery committed abroad because current legislation does not allow it. It will, though, be possible to prosecute if the offences under the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Bill become law.

  Domestic Violence
  Fiona Mactaggart
  To ask the Solicitor-General if she will report on recent progress with prosecuting perpetrators of domestic violence. [14672]

  The Solicitor-General
  There is considerable and encouraging progress in prosecuting crimes of domestic violence. For the first time, next week the CPS will be issuing guidance to Crown prosecutors on domestic violence. That guidance will be published, and that will be the first time that any CPS guidance has been published. To support our prosecutors to do their work as well as possible, there will be a national network of domestic violence prosecutors. A new ministerial committee on domestic violence will co-ordinate work across Government.

  Crown Prosecution Service
  Mrs. Gillan
  To ask the Solicitor-General if she will make a statement on the operation of the Crown Prosecution Service; and how it is affected by the location of magistrates courts. [14674]

  The Solicitor-General
  The Crown Prosecution Service prosecutes cases which have been investigated by the police. The CPS is affected by the location of magistrates courts by the need to be located where the witnesses and victims can get to them, and they need to be accessible for the crown prosecutors and caseworkers who prosecute in them.

  Gamma-hydroxybutyrate
  Mr. Ben Chapman
  To ask the Solicitor-General how many successful prosecutions there were in the last 12 months of people accused of rape who used GHB. [14675]

  The Solicitor-General
  The Crown Prosecution Service holds no central records showing case outcomes broken down to particular offences or types, nor is the information held centrally by the Home Office. I will ask my officials to keep me informed on any cases that involve this drug.

  Child Sexual Abuse
  Julie Morgan
  To ask the Solicitor-General what the policy of the Crown Prosecution Service is in connection with allegations of child sexual abuse. [14668]

  The Solicitor-General
  The CPS applies the evidential and public interest tests set out in the code for Crown prosecutors in all cases referred to it by the police so that it can make fair and consistent prosecution decisions.

  Children form a class of victims and witnesses to whom special care should be given. CPS policy in relation to child abuse cases has three key principles: expedition, sensitivity and fairness. Delay should be avoided in all cases involving a child victim or witness. Child witnesses should be afforded as much protection as necessary to enable them to give their evidence in a way that both maintains the quality of that evidence and minimises the trauma suffered by them. CPS policy emphasises that the best interests of the child should be the first, but not the final, consideration when assessing the public interest.

  The CPS works together with other statutory agencies in accordance with the inter-agency guidance "Working Together to Safeguard Children".

HOUSE OF COMMONS

  Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards
  David Winnick
  To ask the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, representing the House of Commons Commission, what discussions he has had with the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards over the decision that her contract is not to be renewed as a matter of course. [15549]

  Mr. Kirkwood
  [holding answer 16 November 2001]: The Speaker had a private meeting with the commissioner on 16 October.

  David Winnick
  To ask the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, representing the House of Commons Commission, what recent consultations he has had with the Chairman of the Committee on Standards in Public Life regarding the duties of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards; and if he will make a statement. [15513]

  Mr. Kirkwood
  [holding answer 16 November 2001]: None. Although the post of Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards was established as a result of the work of the Nolan committee, the House of Commons Commission does not see a need to consult the Committee on Standards in Public Life each time the post of

  485W
  commissioner is advertised. In any event, I understand that the Committee on Standards in Public Life does not concern itself with individual cases.

  Peter Bottomley
  To ask the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, representing the House of Commons Commission, what the words were of the advertisement for the post of Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards on each of the occasions on which applications have been sought. [15732]

  Mr. Kirkwood
  I have already placed in the Library a copy of the advertisement which appeared in the national press on Sunday 4 November 2001, in response to the hon. Member's previous question on 2 November 2001,Official Report, column 863W. Copies of the advertisements which appeared in 1995 and 1998 will be placed in the Library today.

  David Winnick
  To ask the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, representing the House of Commons Commission, if the previous Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards was offered a renewal of his contract. [14935]

  Mr. Kirkwood
  [holding answer 15 November 2001]: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave to the hon. Member for Worthing, West (Peter Bottomley) on 2 November 2001, Official Report, column 864W.

  Peter Bottomley
  To ask the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, representing the House of Commons Commission, on what the assessment of the work of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards is based; and whether the issues have been discussed with the present holder. [15281]

  Mr. Kirkwood
  I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave him on 2 November 2001,Official Report, column 863W.

  Peter Bottomley
  To ask the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, representing the House of Commons Commission, what(a) written and (b) other sources of advice on best practice were relied on in agreeing (i) the terms of and (ii) the advertisement for the post of Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards. [15279]

  Mr. Kirkwood
  [holding answer 15 November 2001]: As in all such matters, the commission is advised in confidence by the Department of Finance and Administration and the Legal Services Office. In this case, it has also been advised by the recruitment consultants Saxton Bampfylde Hever plc.

  David Winnick
  To ask the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, representing the House of Commons Commission, what representations have been received on the performance of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards from(a) hon. Members and (b) non-members; and if he will make a statement. [14932]

  Mr. Kirkwood
  [holding answer 15 November 2001]: There have been no submissions to the Commission on the matter.

  David Winnick
  To ask the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, representing the House of Commons Commission, what has been the average annual number of cases which the present Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards has been investigating during her term of office. [14933]
  486W
  Mr. Kirkwood
  [holding answer 15 November 2001]: Over the past three years, complaints requiring assessment have averaged 120 a year. The commissioner completed an average of 14 full investigations a year, each resulting in a report to the Standards and Privileges Committee.

  David Winnick
  To ask the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, representing the House of Commons Commission, for what reason the new contract for the post of Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards will involve fewer working days than the present contract. [14931]

  Norman Baker
  To ask the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, representing the House of Commons Commission, for what reason(a) the hours required from and (b) the salary paid to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards are being reduced. [15535]

  Mr. Kirkwood
  [holding answers 15 and 19 November 2001]: The Commission believes that three days per week should be adequate to conduct the duties of the post. This is the level of time commitment that was established for the first commissioner. The figure of three days is not set in stone, and will be discussed with the successful candidate for the post. Salary is commensurate with hours worked.

  Peter Bottomley
  To ask the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, representing the House of Commons Commission, when it was decided(a) to drop and (b) to reinstate the option of reappointment of the holder of the post of Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards by mutual agreement. [15280]

  Norman Baker
  To ask the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, representing the House of Commons Commission, for what reason the decision to offer the next Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards an extension to his or her contract by mutual agreement was not taken in respect of the present postholder. [15536]

  Mr. Kirkwood
  [holding answers 15 and 19 November 2001]: There has been no such decision. As to the position of the present commissioner, I refer the hon. Member to my answer today to the hon. Member for Walsall, North (David Winnick), column 483W.

  David Winnick
  To ask the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, representing the House of Commons Commission, for what reason the Parliamentary Commissioner has not been offered an extension to her contract. [14934]

  Norman Baker
  To ask the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, representing the House of Commons Commission, for what reason it was decided not to renew without the requirement for open competition the contract of the current postholder of the post of Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards. [15534]

  Mr. Kirkwood
  [holding answers 15 and 19 November 2001]: The appointment was made for a three-year term. Any extension or renewal would be a matter for agreement by both parties. The commission considered that a new appointment should be made following an open competition. The current commissioner is eligible to apply and may be appointed for a further three-year term if she applies for the post and is successful at the final short list stage.

  House of Commons Commission
  Norman Baker
  To ask the hon. Member for Roxburgh and Berwickshire, representing the House of Commons Commission, if he will make it his policy henceforth that the Commission will(a) meet in public and (b) publish agendas and minutes of its meetings. [15533]

  Mr. Kirkwood
  [holding answer 19 November 2001]: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave to the hon. Member for Worthing, West (Peter Bottonaley) on 2 November 2001, Official Report, column 864W.

INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT

  Afghanistan
  Tony Worthington
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what discussions she has had with the European Union about its contribution to humanitarian assistance to Afghanistan; and what was the outcome. [16066]

  Clare Short
  I had informal meetings with European Union Development Ministers on 10 October and 8 November. We agreed upon the importance of continued, substantial, assistance from the European Union for humanitarian programmes in Afghanistan. We also agreed on the importance of effective international co-ordination.

  The EC's Humanitarian Aid Office (ECHO) has recently announced the provision of a further 15 million euro of humanitarian assistance to Afghanistan. This brings the amount of EU humanitarian aid committed for the Afghan people so far in 2001 to nearly 44 million euro. The UK contributes 19 per cent. of this.

  Tony Worthington
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if she will make a statement on(a) recent developments in the supply of humanitarian resources in Afghanistan and (b) her priorities in the supply of humanitarian needs in Afghanistan over the next three months. [16065]

  Clare Short
  There has been good progress by humanitarian agencies in opening up routes to get food and other emergency supplies into Afghanistan. From 13 November until 19 November, World Food Programme (WFP) operations were suspended (due to local hauliers' concern about the security situation in southern Afghanistan). The WFP resumed operations from Peshawar on 19 November. Operations from Quetta are still suspended, although the WFP continues to deliver food via the northern routes from Turkmenistan and Tajikistan. International staff from humanitarian agencies are beginning to return to Afghanistan, where possible, in order to accelerate deliveries so that winter stockpiles can be strengthened.

  Our immediate priorities are to help meet lifesaving needs within Afghanistan, to support refugee needs in neighbouring countries and to strengthen the work of international humanitarian agencies. At the same time, we will also support the people of Afghanistan in building a better future. We continue to work with the international community on plans for rehabilitation and recovery. The principles and priorities guiding our approach are outlined
  488W
  in a document entitled "Afghanistan—Recovery: An emergency plan for the first 100 days". A copy has been placed in the Library of the House.

  Andrew George
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what discussions she has had with(a) her counterparts in other Governments and (b) the United Nations High Commission for Refugees on the aid programme for Afghan refugees (i) within the borders of Afghanistan and (ii) in neighbouring countries. [15865]

  Clare Short
  My Department is in regular contact with other Governments through the Afghanistan support group of major donors, including USA, Japan and European countries. We are also in daily contact with key agencies, including UNHCR, regarding the humanitarian situation in the region.

  In its inter-agency donor alert, the UN system identified $664 million of priority needs for Afghanistan. Over $700 million has been pledged against the appeal—sufficient to meet immediate requirements—of which over $280 million have actually been contributed (over 40 per cent. of the requirement). This is good by historic standards.

  The UK was the first donor to pledge assistance, even prior to the UN inter-agency donor alert. We have so far allocated £40 million to support the work of UN agencies, the Red Cross movement and NGOs for immediate humanitarian assistance to Aghans, both in Afghanistan and neighbouring countries. Of this, £3 million has been disbursed to UNHCR, and includes financial, technical and in-kind assistance in support of its regional programme. At UNHCR's request, my Department has provided three relief flights to Iran and Pakistan transporting tents, shelter material and communications equipment. We have also provided a specialist site planner to UNHCR to Pakistan to assist with the setting up of new refugee camp sites.

  In addition, we have allocated a further £11 million to support refugee-hosting communities in Pakistan. This will support the delivery of public health services, the supply of drugs and health equipment, and water and sanitation services. It will focus particularly on North-West Frontier Province and Baluchistan, where most of the Afghan refugees have settled.

  Tony Worthington
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what discussions she has had with UNHCR about the adequacy of provision for refugees outside Afghanistan. [16067]

  Clare Short
  My Department is in regular contact with UNHCR at both field and headquarters level so that resources are used effectively for the provision of assistance to refugees and the protection of their rights.

  So far we have committed £3 million to UNHCR's operations for refugees in response to the current crisis. At the request of UNHCR, my Department has provided three relief flights to Iran and Pakistan transporting tents, shelter material and communications equipment. We have also provided a specialist site planner to UNHCR in Pakistan to assist with the setting up of new refugee camp sites.
  489W
  Our assessment is that while the situation in some camps may remain difficult, the general level of assistance to refugees has improved. In addition, there is sufficient reserve capacity in Pakistan to address the needs of a further 300,000 refugees.

  Ethiopia
  Mr. Laurence Robertson
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if she will make a statement on the status of the New Africa Initiative with respect to Ethiopia. [17719]

  Clare Short
  The New Partnership for African Development (NEPAD), as the New African Initiative is now known, is an Africa-wide initiative, that does not focus on specific countries. Ethiopia is one of the 17 members of the NEPAD implementation committee, and therefore takes a full part in NEPAD activities. NEPAD has set up teams to work on five areas, which are capacity-building peace and security, economic and corporate governance, infrastructure, central bank and standards, and agriculture and market access. Work on these areas should bring benefits to Ethiopia, as it will to other countries in Africa that are part of NEPAD.

  Mr. Laurence Robertson
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if she will make a statement on bilateral agreements between the UK and Ethiopia. [17720]

  Clare Short
  We are currently exploring how to engage most effectively in a development partnership with Ethiopia, where the overall objective of our assistance will be to support the Government of Ethiopia's poverty reduction strategy. We will discuss plans to seek agreement with the Ethiopian Government when we hold development talks early in the new year.

  Departmental Expenditure
  Chris McCafferty
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development (1) if she will list her Department's aid contributions specifically aimed at human rights issues and eliminating gender disparity in(a) 1997, (b) 1998, (c) 1999, (d) 2000, (e) 2001 and the projected contributions for (f) 2002, (g) 2003 and (h)(i) in total and (ii) as a proportion of GNP; [16644]
  (2) if she will list her Department's aid contributions that incorporate human rights and gender disparity in (a) 1997, (b) 1998, (c) 1999, (d) 2000, (e) 2001 and the projected contributions for (f) 2002, (g) 2003 and (h)(i) in total and (ii) as a proportion of GNP. [16640]

  Clare Short
  Information in the appropriate format has been collected centrally only since 1 April 1998.

  In the last three fiscal years, DFID has committed the following amounts to projects which are aimed at addressing human rights or gender disparity issues:

  £ million

  Project objective

  1998–99

  1999–2000

  2000–01

  Human Rights

  Principal

  95

  28

  23

  Significant

  98

  152

  302

  Total

  193

  180

  325

  490W

  £million

  Project objective

  1998–99

  1999–2000

  2000–01

  Removal of Gender Discrimination

  Principal

  2

  0.1

  11

  Significant

  223

  276

  265

  Total

  225

  277

  276

  Principal project objectives are fundamental in its design and explicit to its goal. Significant project objectives although important are not one of the principal reasons for undertaking the project.

  It is not appropriate to present these figures as a proportion of GNP. Contributions for future years are not available.

  Chris McCafferty
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if she will list her Department's actual and as a percentage of GNP overseas expenditure on(a) human resources, (b) technical aid (c) commodities and (d) direct financial assistance for debt relief in each of the last four years. [16637]

  Clare Short
  Figures on DFID's aid contribution for the last five fiscal years are available in "Statistics on International Development 1996/97–2000/01", a copy of which is posted on DFID's website at the following address: www.dfid.gov.uk/. The tables which are of relevance are "Table 12 DFID Programme: Bilateral Technical Co-operation, Table 13 DFID Programme: Bilateral Grants and Other Aid in Kind, Table 15.1 DFID Debt Relief: Retrospective Terms Adjustment by Country, and Table 15.2 Other Debt Reorganisation by Country". A printed version of "Statistics on International Development (SID)" will be placed in the Library of the House following its publication in late November.

  Chris McCafferty
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if she will list her Department's overseas aid contribution for(a) 1997,(b) 1998, (c) 1999, (d) 2000, (e) 2001 and projected contributions for (f) 2002, (g) 2003, and (h) 2004 broken down by (i) bilateral, (ii) EU, (iii) multilateral and (iv) NGO aid contributions (A) in total and (B) as a proportion of GNP. [16545]

  Clare Short
  Figures on DFID's aid contribution for the last five fiscal years are available in "Statistics on International Development 1996/97–2000/01", a copy of which is posted on DFID's website at the following address: www.dfid.gov.uk/. The tables which are of relevance are "Table 3 Gross Public Expenditure on Aid 1996/97–2000/01, and Table 13 DFID Programme: Bilateral Grants and Other Aid in Kind". Please note it is not appropriate to provide these categories of assistance as a proportion of GNP or to provide projected contributions for future years. A printed version of "Statistics on International Development (SID)" will be placed in the Library of the House following its publication in late November.

  Chris McCafferty
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if she will list her Department's overseas aid contributions for the years(a) 1997, (b) 1998,(c) 1999, (d) 2000, (e) 2001 and projected contributions for the years (f) 2002, (g) 2003, and (h)(i) in total and (ii) as a proportion of GNP.
  491W
  Clare Short
  Figures on DFID's aid and contribution for the last five fiscal years are available in "Statistics on International Development 1996/97–2000/01" a copy of which is posted on DFID's website at the following address www.dfid.gov.uk/. The table which is of relevance is "Table 16.1 UK Total Net Flows to Developing Countries: 1976–2000". Please note it is not possible to provide projected contributions either in total or as a proportion of GNP. However, the Government will ensure that the ratio of oda to GNP will rise to 0.33 per cent. by financial year 2003–04.

  A printed version of "Statistics on International Development (SID)" will be placed in the Library of the House following its publication in late November.

  Chris McCafferty
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if she will list her Department's aid contribution to emergency relief aid in(a) 1997, (b) 1998, (c) 1999, (d) 2000, (e) 2001 and projected contributions for (f) 2002, (g) 2003 and (h) 2004. [16643]

  Clare Short
  Figures on DFID's aid contribution for the last five fiscal years are available in "Statistics on International Development 1996/97–2000/01" a copy of which is posted on DFID's website at the following address www.dfid.gov.uk. The relevant table in the publication is Table 10 Humanitarian Assistance. Please note it is not possible to provide projected contributions for future years. A printed version of "Statistics on International Development (SID)" will be placed in the Library of the House following its publication in late November.

  Public Bodies
  Mr. Andrew Turner
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development (1) if she will list those public bodies which are the responsibility of her Department and which are not listed in Public Bodies 2000; [17598]

  (2) if she will list those public bodies to which her Department appoints members and which are not listed in Public Bodies 2000; [17597]

  (3) if she will list those local bodies which were set up under legislation which is the responsibility of her Department since May 1997. [17599]

  Clare Short
  None.

  Sexual and Reproductive Health Programme
  Chris McCafferty
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if she will list her Department's individual aid contributions to international sexual and reproductive health NGOs via the Civil Society Challenge Fund in(a) 1997, (b) 1998, (c) 1999, (d) 2000, (e) 2001 and the projected contributions for (f) 2002, (g) 2003 and (h) 2004. [16645]

  Clare Short
  The levels of funding granted by my Department to international sexual and reproductive health NGOs under the Civil Society Challenge Fund, since the introduction of the scheme in 2000–01 is as follows.492W

  £000

  2000–01

  Population Services International

  78

  2001–02

  International Family Health

  152

  Population Services International

  240

  2002–03

  International Family Health

  142

  Population Services International

  257

  2003–04

  International Family Health

  81

  Population Services International

  78

  2004–05

  International Family Health

  12

  The funding indicated for 2002–03 onwards represents projects to which we are already committed. Further funding will be dependent on the success of new Civil Society Challenge Fund applications.

  Chris McCafferty
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development (1) if she will list her Department's sexual and reproductive health aid contribution, actual and as a percentage of GNP, for(a) 1997, (b) 1998, (c) 1999, (d) 2000, (e) 2001 and projected contributions for the years (f) 2002, (g) 2003, and (h) 2004 broken down into (i) bilateral, (ii) EU, (iii) multilateral and (iv) NGO aid contributions (A) in total and (B) as a proportion of GNP; [16546]

  (2) if she will list her Department's sexual and reproductive health aid contribution in (a) 1997, (b) 1998, (c) 1999, (d) 2000, (e) 2001 and projected contributions for (f) 2002, (g) 2003, and (h)(i) in total and (ii) as a proportion of GNP; [16544]

  (3) if she will list her Department's bilateral aid contributions to sexual and reproductive health aid for (a) 1997, (b) 1998, (c) 1999, (d) 2000, (e) 2001 and projected contributions for the years (f) 2002, (g) 2003 and (h) 2004, broken down by country. [16547]

  Clare Short
  Information in the appropriate format has been collected centrally only since 1 April 1998.

  In the last three fiscal years, DFID committed the following amounts to projects aimed at Reproductive Health Services including HIV/AIDS.

  Year

  £million

  1998–99

  39

  1999–2000

  202

  2000–01

  436

  A breakdown of these figures by country has been placed in the Library of the House. It is not appropriate to present these figures as a proportion of GNP. Contributions for future years are not available.

  In addition to the figures shown in the table, over the same period, DFID made total multilateral contributions to UNFPA of £79.5 million, UNAIDS of £12 million, IPPF of £21 million and WHO-HRP of £0.3 million for activities related to reproductive health services including HIV/AIDS.
  493W
  Chris McCafferty
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if she will list her Department's individual aid contributions to international sexual and reproductive health NGOs in(a) 1997, (b) 1998, (c) 1999, (d) 2000, (e) 2001 and the projected contributions for (f) 2002, (g) 2003 and (h) 2004. [16646]

  Clare Short
  Figures on DFID's aid contribution for the last five fiscal years are available in "Statistics on International Development 1996–97 to 2001–01" a copy of which is posted on DFID's website at the following address www.dfid.gov.uk/. The tables which are of relevance are "Table 13 DFID Programme: Bilateral Grants and Other Aid in Kind and Table 14 DFID Expenditure through UK CSOs 2000–01". It is not appropriate to provide projected contributions for future years. A printed version of "Statistics on International Development (SID)" will be placed in the Library of the House following its publication in late November.

  Chris McCafferty
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if she will list her Department's emergency relief aid contributions to sexual and reproductive health programme work for(a) 1997, (b) 1998, (c) 1999, (d) 2000, (e) 2001 and projected contributions for (f)(g) 2003 and (h) 2004. [16636]

  Clare Short
  This information is not collected centrally and to provide data on the basis requested would be at disproportionate cost.

  Refrigerator Exports
  Mrs. Spelman
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what action she is taking to ensure that exports of refrigerators to the third world comply with the European regulations which come into effect on 1 January. [16247]

  Clare Short
  My Department applies Government policy on greening government operations and our procurement agents ensure that refrigerators purchased for use by the development programme comply with the new regulations.

  Departmental Staff
  Mr. Andrew Turner
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how many employees of(a) her Department and (b) agencies sponsored by her Department work in (i) London, (ii) areas benefiting from EU objective 1 status, (iii) areas with objective 2 status and (iv) other areas. [16109]

  Clare Short
  (a) The numbers of staff employed by DFID in the United Kingdom as at 1 September 2001 were:

  (i) London—826

  (ii) In areas benefiting from EU objective 1 status—nil

  (iii) In areas with EU objective 2 status, other than London—nil

  (iv) In other areas—540 (in east Kilhride).

  (b) There are no agencies sponsored by DFID.

  Cipro
  Tony Worthington
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development whether she supported the move by the United States Government for a compulsory 494W
  licence to negotiate a lower price for the anti-anthrax drug, Cipro, at the World Trade Organisation meeting. [16072]

  Ms Hewitt
  I have been asked to reply.

  The negotiations between the United States Government and the manufacturers of Cipro were private matters for the parties involved. In this instance, the United States Government reached an agreement with the manufacturer of Cipro for a bulk supply of this anti-anthrax drug at reduced prices without resort to a compulsory licence.

  Drug Prices
  Tony Worthington
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development in what circumstances she has supported developing countries seeking a compulsory licence to negotiate lower drug prices; and if she will make a statement on her policy in such circumstances. [16073]

  Ms Hewitt
  I have been asked to reply.

  The trade-related aspects of intellectual property rights agreement makes clear that any WTO member can issue a compulsory licence in certain circumstances. An individual WTO member itself determines the grounds upon which such a licence would be granted.

  The declaration agreed at Doha last week on TRIPS and public health commits the TRIPS Council to finding a solution by end 2002 as to how WTO Members with insufficient or no manufacturing capacities in the pharmaceutical sector might make effective use of compulsory licensing under the TRIPS agreement. The UK (as part of the EU) intends to play a constructive role in those negotiations.

  TRIPS Agreement
  Tony Worthington
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if it is her policy that the TRIPS agreement should not impede developing countries from taking measures to protect their public health; and what assessment she has made of the obstacles to achieving this. [16069]

  Ms Hewitt
  I have been asked to reply.

  The UK wholeheartedly supports the declaration on the TRIPS agreement and public health issued at the successful conclusion of the fourth ministerial meeting of the WTO at Doha, Qatar. The declaration makes it clear that the TRIPS agreement does not and should not prevent Members from taking measures to protect public health.

  I am confident that this agreement will both allow developing countries better access to vital medicines in the fight against diseases like HIV/AIDS and TB, and protect the patent system that promotes research into the drugs of the future.

  Tony Worthington
  To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what her policy is on a moratorium on formal WTO disputes over TRIPS. [16071]

  Ms Hewitt
  I have been asked to reply.

  In relation to TRIPS and public health the UK wholeheartedly supports the declaration issued at the successful conclusion of the fourth ministerial meeting of the WTO at Doha, Qatar. The declaration makes clear that the TRIPS Agreement does not and should not prevent

  495W
  Members from taking measures to protect public health. It also extends the deadline for implementation of the agreement for the least developed countries, in relation to pharmaceutical products, by 10 years to 2016. Taken together, along with the rest of the declaration, it is clear that there is no need for a formal moratorium.

  I have placed a copy of the declaration in the Library of the House.

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER

  Government Car Pool
  Mr. Barker
  To ask the Deputy Prime Minister how many vehicles in the Government car pool are electric-powered; and what plans there are to increase this number. [17348]

  Mr. Leslie
  The Government Car and Despatch Agency, which is responsible for running ministerial cars, has one electric car on long-term trial and one hybrid petrol/electric powered car on its fleet. Until electric cars with adequate passenger space and mileage range become available, there are no plans to increase the number of electric cars on the fleet.

TRANSPORT, LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND THE REGIONS

  Channel Tunnel Rail Link
  Mr. Don Foster
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions (1) what the cost was to the Strategic Rail Authority's budget(a) in total and (b) in each year since 1997, of producing (i) each of their annual strategies and (ii) their annual channel tunnel rail link strategy; [15741]

  (2) if he will place in the Library copies of each of the Strategic Rail Authority's annual channel tunnel strategies produced since 1997; [15740]

  (3) what the key recommendations were from the Strategic Rail Authority's most recent annual Channel Tunnel Strategy document; what account he has taken of these recommendations; and if he will make a statement. [15739]

  Mr. Jamieson
  The Strategic Rail Authority was established on 1 February 2001 under the provisions of the Transport Act 2000. The Act requires the authority to produce strategies, including a channel tunnel strategy. Copies of the authority's strategies will be placed in the Library of the House when they are published.

  London Underground
  Mr. Dismore
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions if he will place in the Library a copy of the instructions given to Ernst & Young to prepare the review of the value for money of the PPP for London Underground. [14486]

  Mr. Jamieson
  My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has today placed in the Library a copy of the terms of reference agreed with Ernst & Young for this review.
  496W
  Helen Jackson
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions who is financing the current advertising campaign on the London Underground relating to the benefits of the public-private partnership; and what is its cost. [16562]

  Mr. Jamieson
  This is a matter for London Underground.

  Trans-European Networks
  Mr. Paterson
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions if it is Government policy that all trans-European network roads should be dual-carriageways. [14789]

  Mr. Jamieson
  [holding answer 15 November 2001]: No. The European Community guidelines for the development of the trans-European transport network do not require roads represented on the TEN to be dual-carriageway standard.

  Railtrack
  Peter Bradley
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what the value was of one share in Railtrack at(a) the time of privatisation and (b) at 1 October for each year thereafter. [16060]

  Mr. Jamieson
  The flotation price of a share in Railtrack Group plc on 20 May 1996 was 380p. The share price for Railtrack Group plc for 1 October in each subsequent year is as follows:

  1 October 1996: 491p

  1 October 1997: 902p

  1 October 1998: 1,713p

  1 October 1999: 1,320p

  1 October 2000: 1,109p

  1 October 2001: 265p.

  Mr. Redwood
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what advice the Government sought about the timing of an announcement to the stock exchange of the changed plans for Railtrack plc. [16378]

  Mr. Spellar
  In reaching his decision on 5 October, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State had regard to the responsibilities and duties that Railtrack Group plc has as a stock exchange quoted company.

  Mr. Redwood
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what his estimate is of the legal fees for advice to his Department(a) incurred so far and (b) likely to be incurred in the rest of the 2001–02 financial year on the issues arising from the Railtrack administration. [16373]

  Mr. Spellar
  I estimate that since Railtrack went into administration on 7 October 2001, my Department has incurred legal fees of approximately £400,000 for advice on issues arising from the administration. At this stage it is not possible to give an accurate estimate for the rest of this year, but it will be within the Department's budget for such matters.
  497W
  Mr. Redwood
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what accountancy advice he took on the financial position of Railtrack in connection with the petition for administration. [16376]

  Mr. Spellar
  The Secretary of State received advice on Railtrack's financial position on an on-going basis. It was accountancy and financial advice that provided the evidence of a deficit of £700 million by 8 December rising to £1.7 billion by the end of March 2002, which formed the basis for the administration order. This evidence was not challenged in the High Court by Railtrack.

  Mr. Redwood
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what(a) guidance and (b) instruction has been issued to Railtrack in administration by the Government on employment in the company. [16364]

  Mr. Spellar
  No such guidance or instruction has been issued.

  Matthew Taylor
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions, pursuant to his answer of 7 November 2001,Official Report, column 289W, on letters of comfort, if he will make it his policy to place such letters in the Library; what representations he has received from potential financiers of the successor body to Railtrack for non-legally binding assurances from the Government on their support for Railtrack's successor body; and if he will make a statement. [16730]

  Mr. Jamieson
  The Government are not anticipating having to provide any non-legally binding assurances on their support. If contingent liabilities are required to be entered into, they will be notified to Parliament as part of the standard procedure.

  Mr. Clifton-Brown
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what arrangements are in place for private investors to invest in the not-for-profit company replacing Railtrack; and if he is in negotiation with such investors. [16769]

  Mr. Jamieson
  [holding answer 21 November 2001]: I refer the hon. Member to the reply given by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood) on 31 October 2001, Official Report, column 671W.

  Miss McIntosh
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions, pursuant to her answer of 30 October 2001,Official Report, column 571W, what recent ministerial meetings there have been with the chair of the Strategic Rail Authority. [17119]

  Mr. Jamieson
  I refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Mr. Pickles), on 31 October 2001,Official Report, column 668W.

  Mrs. May
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions, pursuant to his answer of 19 November 2001,Official Report, column 31W, on Railtrack, if he will set out the basis on which his Department determined the value of assets of Railtrack plc for the purposes of assessing the company's solvency, as requested. [17780]
  498W
  Mr. Byers
  As my previous reply stated, the solvency of a company is assessed on the basis of its ability to meet its debt liability payments; and this is the basis on which evidence was produced for the petition to the High Court. The determination of the value of the assets in Railtrack plc is a matter for the administrator.

  Mrs. May
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what information regarding the financial position of Railtrack was received by his Department between(a) 28 September and 1 October and (b) 1 October and 5 October. [17226]

  Mr. Byers
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: Between those dates my Department received various information on the financial position of Railtrack from various sources.

  Mr. Howard
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what comparative assessment he has made of the likely impact on the public finances of a takeover of Railtrack by(a) a not-for-profit company and (b) a private company. [17744]

  Mr. Spellar
  It will be for the administrator to assess and make recommendations on proposals for how Railtrack plc's property rights and liabilities are transferred out of administration as a going concern and to put a transfer proposal to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for approval. Guidelines on the criteria upon which my right hon. Friend will need to be satisfied before approving any proposal put forward by the administrator were set out in reply my hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker) on 31 October 2001,Official Report, column 669–71W.

  Rail Industry
  Chris Grayling
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions which representatives of financial institutions he has met to discuss the future of the rail industry since June. [16171]

  Mr. Jamieson
  The Government have had regular meetings with their financial advisers. In addition, the Government have had meetings with bondholders, institutional shareholders and with credit rating agencies.

  Chris Grayling
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions on what occasions since 1997 the Government have refused a request to use section 54 of the Railways Act 1993. [16176]

  Mr. Jamieson
  No such request has been refused since 1997.

  Bus Services
  Mr. Allen
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions if he has received a letter from Mark Fowler, Managing Director of Nottingham City Transport, of 8 November; and if he will make a statement on how competition legislation affects the ability to cross-subsidise bus services. [16953]

  Ms Keeble
  My right hon. Friend the Minister for Transport has received a letter dated 8 November from the Managing Director of Nottingham City Transport.
  499W
  The requirements of competition legislation in relation to the cross-subsidy of bus services is a matter for the Director General of Fair Trading.

  Planning (Buckingham)
  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what representations he has received in 2001 on bypasses from residents of Buckingham constituency. [16904]

  Mr. Jamieson
  In 2001, my Department has received representations from Buckingham residents on the A41 Aston Clinton bypass, the A418 Stoke Hammond and Western Linslade bypass and the A418 Wing bypass.

  Data Protection
  Harry Cohen
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions how many names and addresses of vehicle owners/keepers have been disclosed to third parties by virtue of that party showing reasonable cause for the disclosure over the last three years, broken down into terms of categories of reasonable cause; if the DVLA alerts third parties to the offence under section 55 of the Data Protection Act 1998; if he has undertaken data matching exercises to identify those who might be using the third party facility as a means of tracing individuals who do not want to be traced; and if he will make a statement. [17168]

  Mr. Jamieson
  The number of "reasonable cause" requests for information processed against the DVLA vehicle register during the last three years are:

  Number of requests

  1998–99

  830,970

  1999–2000

  883,522

  2000–01

  955,484

  Specific categories of reasonable cause are not recorded and it is not possible to break down the statistics in this

  Scheme

  Timetable

  Sunderland Extension to Tyne and Wear Metro

  Under construction, due to open March 2002

  Nottingham Express Transit

  Under construction, due to open in 2003

  Three extensions to Manchester Metrolink1

  Approved, construction should begin in 2003

  Leeds Supertram (Three lines)

  Approved, construction should begin in 2003

  South Hampshire Rapid Transit

  Approved, construction should begin in 2003

  1 Oldham-Rochdale, Airport and Ashton-under-Lyne

  In addition, we have given provisional approval to two extensions to the Midland Metro system in Birmingham. The promoters are now seeking the necessary powers under the Transport and Works Act 1992 (TWA). The Docklands Light Rail extension to City airport has also received provisional approval, subject to TWA powers being granted.

  At present, we are considering proposals for the Bristol and South Gloucestershire light rapid transit scheme; a further extension to the Manchester Metrolink to Stockport; the Merseytram project and an upgrade of the Blackpool tramway. Transport for Landon is consulting on options for intermediate-mode transport for four corridors: East London transit, Uxbridge road, Cross River transit, and Greenwich waterfront.
  500W
  way. Most of the inquiries are made by insurance companies and finance houses in relation to insurance claims and vehicle-related loan arrangements. The information is released, often via electronic links, under strictly defined terms and conditions, which specify the security and confidentiality of the information handled and subject to periodic audit. Information is released to around 2,500 private individuals each year. Applicants must give a full written explanation for their inquiry, and they are warned directly of the consequences under the Data Protection Act of unlawfully procuring information. The agency has not identified a need to carry out any formal matching exercises to identify inappropriate inquiries, but it does work closely with the Office of the Data Protection Commissioner to facilitate the prosecution of the handful of offences that come to light each year.

  Corsham Station
  Mr. Gray
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions when the new station of Corsham will open; and what delay there has been in its opening. [17045]

  Mr. Jamieson
  The station is now expected to become operational at the start of the summer 2003 timetable. There have been delays amounting to approximately one year caused by a variety of issues which have now been resolved.

  Light Rail and Tram Schemes
  Chris Grayling
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions if he will list the(a) light rail and (b) tram schemes which are planned and which could be open by 2010. [17131]

  Ms Keeble
  It is for local authorities to develop proposals for light rail or tram schemes in the context of their local transport plans. The following schemes are already under construction or have received full approval:

  We are aware of a significant number of schemes that may in future be proposed by authorities, including extensions to existing systems. The investment plans set out in the 10-year plan for transport contain provision for up to 25 new light rail lines in major cities and conurbations in England outside London.

  Regional Assembly (South-west)
  Mr. Swire
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions how many written representations he has received from electors in the east Devon constituency expressing support for an elected regional assembly in the south-west of England in the last 12 months. [17271]
  501W
  Dr. Whitehead
  The Department has received no representations on regional government from electors in the east Devon constituency.

  Public Service Agreements
  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions if he will make a statement on progress towards the public service agreement target for reducing the incidence of fire-related deaths in the home. [16921]

  Dr. Whitehead
  The Department's public service agreement target looks for an average 20 per cent. reduction in the number of deaths from the base-line figure of 379 (the average over the years April 1994 to March 1999) for the period April 1999 to March 2004—giving a target of 303 (averaged over the five years).

  Our statistics show an encouraging trend in the overall reduction of accidental deaths in the home. We achieved our first milestone (1999–2000); the latest set of figures indicate that the Department is not far short of achieving the second milestone (2000–01) where we would hope to record no more than 327 deaths nationally (ie England and Wales). The latest figures for the calendar year 2000 indicate that about 326 died in accidental dwelling fires, in this period. This latest figure also compares with 315 deaths recorded in the previous year (1999).

  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions if he will make a statement on progress towards the public service agreement target for implementing fire cover standards. [16919]

  Dr. Whitehead
  The task group on the fire cover review expects to deliver its final report to the Central Fire Brigades Advisory Council in March 2002.

  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions for what reason the public service agreement target for reducing the incidence of fire-related deaths in the home in 2000–01 was higher than the outturn in 1999–2000. [16920]

  Dr. Whitehead
  The public service agreement target for accidental dwelling fire deaths measures reductions over five years. Because the number of fire deaths per year are subject to variations, it is necessary to take an average over five years to provide a more realistic measure of Government's ability to reduce preventable fire deaths.

  The milestones were set in such a way so as to aim for a uniform reduction each year until the target is reached in year five.

  Registered Vehicle Keepers (Buckingham)
  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions how many registered vehicle keepers there are in the Buckingham constituency. [16912]

  Mr. Jamieson
  The number of currently licensed vehicles registered to keepers in the Buckingham constituency at December 2000 was 90,207. More than one vehicle may be registered to the same keeper and it would not be possible to establish the number of individual keepers without a special exercise at disproportionate cost.
  502W

  Street Warden Scheme
  Ms Buck
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions how many applications, of what total value, were received in each region of England under the street warden scheme; and of these, how many were successful, and with what total value in each region. [17776]

  Ms Keeble
  Details, by region, of applications made in England under the street warden scheme are shown in the table.

  Region

  Applications

  Value (£)

  Successful applications

  Value (£)

  East

  24

  5,648,011

  13

  1,774,820

  East Midlands

  11

  3,284,644

  7

  1,030,073

  South East

  34

  13,270,960

  15

  2,009,521

  North West

  44

  13,270,270

  19

  2,937,791

  London

  45

  23,249,502

  18

  4,240,820

  North East

  19

  5,792,618

  12

  2,007,271

  South West

  21

  5,069,953

  12

  1,922,744

  West Midlands

  41

  8,050,272

  17

  2,188,692

  Yorkshire and Humber

  19

  6.663,159

  12

  2,310,216

  Total

  258

  84,299,389

  125

  20,421,947

  Train Companies (Subsidies)
  Mr. Burstow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what subsidies have been paid to(a) Connex South Central, (b) Go Via/Goahead and (c) Thameslink to assist them with the purchase of new trains; when these payments were made; what each company is required to do as a consequence of accepting these payments; how many confirmed orders for new trains each company has informed his Department it has made; and how many trains each company has accepted. [16818]

  Mr. Jamieson
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: The following table provides details, for Connex South Central and Thameslink and for each year from franchise commencement to 2000–01, of net outturn payments (or receipts) in cash prices by the Franchising Director and, since 1 February 2001, by the Strategic Rail Authority (SRA):

  Cash prices £ million

  Year

  Connex South Central

  Thameslink

  1996–97

  76

  1

  1997–98

  76

  3

  1998–99

  58

  (7)

  1999–2000

  50

  (18)

  2000–01

  40

  (28)

  Ownership of the South Central franchise was transferred from Connex to GoVia on 26 August 2001. Franchise support for South Central and Thameslink is the Franchising Director's and the SRA's contribution to funding all those companies' expenditure under their franchise agreements, including any expenditure on new trains.

  Under its franchise agreement, Thameslink has no commitment to order new trains. The South Central franchise agreement included a commitment by Connex to replace its Mark I rolling stock by 1 January 2005, as required by Health and Safety Executive regulations. On

  503W
  26 August that commitment was passed to GoVia, which has subsequently ordered 240 new vehicles that are due to start entering service on its South Central franchise in 2002. Further orders are expected to be placed shortly.

  Homelessness
  Mr. Burstow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions, pursuant to his answer of 15 November 2001,Official Report, column 832W, on homelessness, if he will specify what provisions exist within the Homelessness Bill to ensure housing authorities take a more strategic, multi-agency approach to (a) the prevention of homelessness and (b) the re-housing of homeless households; and if he will make a statement. [17781]

  Ms Keeble
  The Homelessness Bill includes a requirement for housing authorities, with the assistance of social services authorities, and in consultation 'with other bodies including registered social landlords and voluntary organisations, to:

  carry out reviews of homelessness in their area;

  formulate and publish strategies for tackling and preventing homelessness problems based on the results of those reviews;

  publish the first strategy within 12 months of the coming into operation of these provisions; and

  publish a new strategy thereafter within five years of the previous strategy having been published.

  The Bill also requires housing authorities and social services authorities to take the homelessness strategy into account when carrying out their functions.

  Details are set out in the explanatory notes which are available in the Library.

  Mr. Burstow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions, pursuant to his answer of 15 November 2001,Official Report, column 832W, on homelessness, if he will specify what measures exist within the Homelessness Bill to ensure housing authorities provide the (a) timely and (b) suitable rehousing of homeless households. [17814]

  Ms Keeble
  The Housing Act 1996 requires local housing authorities to secure that suitable accommodation is available immediately for a housing applicant, pending completion of their inquiries, if they have reason to believe that he or she may be homeless, eligible for assistance and have a priority need for accommodation. That duty continues until the authority decides whether a substantive duty is owed. The Homelessness Bill will amend the 1996 Act so that, in all cases where the authority decides that the applicant is eligible for assistance, unintentionally homeless and falls within a priority need group, they must secure that suitable accommodation is available until a settled housing solution can be found.

  Heavy Goods Vehicles
  Mr. Greg Knight
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions if he will launch a road safety campaign aimed at reducing the number of HGV drivers of vehicles with a maximum loaded weight of over 7.5 tonnes driving in the offside lane of motorways with three or more lanes in England and Wales. [17409]
  504W
  Mr. Spellar
  No. HGVs with a laden weight exceeding 7.5 tonnes are already banned from the outside lane of motorways (with three or more lanes). Enforcement of the law is a matter for the police.

  Fair Trade Products
  Mr. Weir
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what fairly traded products, other than tea and coffee, have been purchased by his Department in each of the last five years; and what was their value. [17565]

  Dr. Whitehead
  The Department does not directly purchase these products, but within the last two months the staff restaurant contractor has introduced Fair Trade chocolate and cereal bars for sale to staff in the main staff restaurant. No figures are available on the value of these purchases.

  Dr. Kumar
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what steps he has taken to encourage the use of Fair Trade products by local authorities. [17796]

  Dr. Whitehead
  Local authorities are independent and autonomous and responsible within the law for making their own decisions on procurement matters. In doing so they will no doubt consider the case for purchasing Fair Trade products on their merits with regard to the need to achieve value for money in making their decisions.

  South East England Regional Assembly
  Mr. Barker
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what was(a) the cost of establishing, (b) the running costs since it was established and (c) the costs this year of the South East England Regional Assembly. [17341]

  Dr. Whitehead
  The South East England Regional Assembly (SEERA) has been established region—Highland voluntarily by bodies representing the interests of the south-east region. Their expenditure and start-up costs are a matter for the assembly and its members. The Government have however, allocated £500,000 this year to SEERA to help the assembly to establish a stronger strategic and scrutiny role within the region. The Government office for the south- east will be monitoring that part of SEERA's expenditure which relates to the £500,000 grant.

  Mr. Barker
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions how many people have been employed by the South East England Regional Assembly(a) this year and (b) in each year since it was established. [17342]

  Dr. Whitehead
  These are matters for the South East England Regional Assembly.

  Fire Service (East Sussex)
  Mr. Barker
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions which fire stations have been closed in East Sussex since 1997. [17344]

  Dr. Whitehead
  None.
  505W
  Mr. Barker
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions how many firefighters are(a) in active service and (b) on long-term sick leave in East Sussex Fire Brigade this year; and what the figures were for each of the last four years. [17343]

  Dr. Whitehead
  In east Sussex this year there have been 416 whole-time firefighters in active service and 11 on long-term sick leave. Due to technical difficulties, information for previous years is not currently available. East Sussex are in the process of installing a new central personnel computer system. The information requested will be available from April 2002 for the two previous years.

  Travel Concessions (Middlesbrough)
  Dr. Kumar
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what travel concessions are available, and how many people are eligible per group,(a) in total, (b) in Teesside and (c) in the Middlesbrough, South and Cleveland, East constituency. [17798]

  Ms Keeble
  The Transport Act 2000 requires local authorities and PTEs in England and Wales to provide half-price fares on local buses to pensioners and disabled people, with no charge for the pass. In addition, the Transport Act 1985 gives local authorities discretion to provide a more generous scheme (eg less than half-fare or free travel; discounted travel on trains, metros, trams, ferries; or cross-boundary travel). In London, the Freedom Pass scheme is covered by the Greater London Authority Act 1999. Broadly 5.5 million pensioners and 1.5 million disabled people are eligible for these concessions.

  Regional or constituency data are not held centrally.

  Rough Sleepers Unit
  Dr. Kumar
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions how much money from the rough sleepers unit has been invested(a) in total and (b) broken down by area since the creation of the unit. [17797]

  Ms Keeble
  The rough sleepers unit has a programme budget (both capital and revenue) of £200 million over three years. In London, a total of £159 million has been invested over three years drawn from funding streams previously administered by separate Departments. Outside London, where local authorities continue to take the lead in developing local strategies, the unit has invested £39 million under the homelessness action programme. The unit's budget is ring-fenced.

  Total grant for three years 1999–2000 to 2001–02, based on actual expenditure in 1999–2000 and 2000–01 and forecast expenditure in 2001–02

  £ million

  Total

  London

  158.894

  South West

  6.185

  South East

  6.805

  West Midlands

  2.227

  East Midlands

  3.268

  Eastern

  3.204

  Yorks and the Humber

  2.532

  506W

  Total grant for three years 1999–2000 to 2001–02, based on actual expenditure in 1999–2000 and 2000–01 and forecast expenditure in 2001–02

  £ million

  Total

  North West

  5.378

  North East

  1.602

  National

  7.675

  Total

  197.77

  Notes:

  1. The national figure covers projects like the National Homelessness Advice Service where it is not possible to breakdown by region

  2.The London figure includes moneys not directly administered by the RSU (ie SHMG, capital and S.30) but which are part of our overall budget

  Special Purpose Vehicles
  Mrs. May
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions (1) what plans he has for special purpose vehicles to be created to undertake works in connection with the replacement of the(a) south-west and (b) south and central passenger franchises; and if he will place the plans in the Library; [18218]

  (2) what plans exist for special purpose vehicles to be created to undertake works in connection with the development of the East London Line; and if he will place plans in the Library; [17788]

  (3) if he will list those projects for which special purpose vehicles are being established; [17785]

  (4) what role the company which replaced Railtrack will have in the special purpose vehicles set up for rail infrastructure projects; [17782]

  (5) if he will publish the (a) framework and (b) timetable for the establishment of special purpose vehicles to undertake rail infrastructure projects; [17783]

  (6) what research he has undertaken as to the suitability of using special purpose vehicles for rail infrastructure projects. [17784]

  Mr. Byers
  The framework for special purpose vehicles for rail investment projects is currently being developed by the Strategic Rail Authority (SRA) and my Department. The SRA strategic plan will identify the investment projects for which an SPV may be appropriate.

  Planning
  Ms Shipley
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions when he expects to publish the Green Paper on planning. [18013]

  Ms Keeble
  Shortly.

  Domestic Sprinklers
  Mr. David Stewart
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what recent representations he has received on the use of domestic sprinklers to prevent death and damage by fire in domestic homes. [17391]
  507W
  Dr. Whitehead
  My Department regularly receives representations from organisations calling for the greater use of domestic sprinklers.

  The Government recognise that domestic sprinklers have a role to play in promoting life safety, particularly for the most vulnerable. The Fire Safety Advisory Board will continue to assess their value in the light of emerging standards and improvements in sprinkler technology. We have, therefore, recently commissioned research into the benefits of sprinklers in residential properties, including the preparation of a regulatory impact assessment. The results and conclusions from this work should be available in a little over two years from now.

  Additionally, the housing health and safety rating system, which we propose should replace the housing fitness standard, includes guidance in respect of hazards from fire. Although not mandatory for houses in multiple occupation, sprinklers may well be recommended where the risk of fire is high.

  Vehicle Specification
  Mr. Neil Turner
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what decision he has reached following the consultation exercise on the European Commission's proposal to introduce pedestrian protection features in new cars by means of a negotiated agreement with vehicle manufacturers. [18270]

  Mr. Jamieson
  We have decided that we should support the negotiated approach in this case. The most significant factor is that it offers the quickest route to introducing worthwhile pedestrian protection into the design of new car models.

  The first phase of the agreement offers about 25 per cent. of the fatality reduction and 60 per cent. of the serious injury reduction expected from the European Enhanced Vehicle Safety Committee (EEVC) proposal on pedestrian protection. The full EEVC benefits are to be achieved in the second phase.

  I have recently written to the Chairmen of the European Scrutiny Committees, informing them of the Government's position.

  Council Tax Discounts
  Mr. Drew
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions when he will consult on the proposed changes to the council tax discounts on second and long-term empty homes. [18381]

  Planning applications and appeals against refusal: England 1990–91 to 2000–01

  Planning applications1

  Appeals against refusal2

  Decided

  Granted

  Refused

  Received

  Decided

  Allowed

  Percentage of appeals allowed

  2000–01

  North East

  14.7

  13.6

  1.0

  0.3

  0.3

  0.1

  42

  North West

  44.3

  40.0

  4.2

  1.1

  1.0

  0.4

  39

  Yorkshire and the Humber

  34.5

  30.8

  3.6

  0.9

  0.7

  0.3

  37

  East Midlands

  35.0

  31.7

  3.3

  0.8

  0.7

  0.3

  35

  West Midlands

  37.0

  32.5

  4.5

  1.1

  0.9

  0.3

  35

  East of England

  55.0

  48.2

  6.8

  1.8

  1.6

  0.5

  33

  London

  53.5

  43.8

  9.7

  2.2

  1.9

  0.6

  32

  South East

  89.0

  77.1

  11.9

  3.3

  2.9

  1.0

  33

  South West

  56.7

  49.8

  6.8

  1.8

  1.6

  0.5

  33

  England

  419.6

  367.7

  51.8

  13.4

  11.6

  3.9

  34

  508W
  Mr. Raynsford
  I am today publishing proposals to give local authorities discretion to reduce or end the council tax discounts which owners of second and long-term empty homes currently receive.

  The Government's proposals are set out in "Council Tax: a consultation paper on proposed changes for second homes and long-term empty homes". It fulfils the Government's commitment, made in the rural White Paper last year, to consult on this issue.

  The Government are also seeking views on how the extra revenue raised should be used: whether it should be retained locally and whether it should be used for specific purposes such as housing. We are also proposing that councils should have the discretion to give council tax discounts for local reasons such as where homes are hit by flooding or in cases of individual hardship.

  Our proposals would give local authorities the flexibility to choose the best option for their communities.

  In some areas, second-home owners bring a much-needed boost to the local economy but, in other areas, a high demand for second homes is pricing local people out of the property market and undermining the viability of local services. Equally, homes left empty for long periods can blight local communities and encourage crime and antisocial behaviour. The proposals we are announcing today could be used to help encourage owners of empty homes to bring them back into use.

  More than half a million properties which are no one's main residence currently receive a 50 per cent. council tax discount. Over half of these are long-term empty properties. Potentially, up to £200 million could be raised in England by ending the council tax discounts on second and long-term empty homes.

  The Government are asking for responses to their consultation by 15 February 2002.

  Planning Applications
  Richard Younger-Ross
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions if he will list the latest annual figures for the number of planning applications under the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 in England and Wales by(a) region, (b) the number of application passed, (c) the number sent to appeal and (d) the number of successful appeals; and if he will provide the same figures for the previous 10 years. [R] [13595]

  Ms Keeble
  [pursuant to her reply, 14 November 2001, c. 726–28W]: The information for England for 1990–91 to 2000–01 is in the table.
  509W 510W

  Planning applications and appeals against refusal: England 1990–91 to 2000–01

  Planning applications1

  Appeals against refusal2

  Decided

  Granted

  Refused

  Received

  Decided

  Allowed

  Percentage of appeals allowed

  1999–2000

  North East

  14.3

  13.3

  0.9

  0.3

  0.2

  0.1

  33

  North West

  42.1

  38.0

  4.1

  1.1

  1.0

  0.4

  39

  Yorkshire and the Humber

  33.1

  29.8

  3.3

  0.8

  0.7

  0.2

  34

  East Midlands

  32.9

  29.9

  3.0

  0.8

  0.7

  0.2

  34

  West Midlands

  35.5

  31.6

  3.9

  1.0

  0.9

  0.4

  37

  East of England

  51.7

  45.6

  6.1

  1.7

  1.6

  0.5

  31

  London

  49.8

  41.5

  8.3

  2.0

  1.8

  0.6

  33

  South East

  84.2

  73.2

  10.8

  3.1

  2.8

  0.9

  32

  South West

  52.8

  46.9

  5.9

  1.6

  1.4

  0.5

  33

  England

  396.3

  350.0

  46.3

  12.3

  11.2

  3.7

  33

  1998–99

  North East

  14.4

  13.4

  1.0

  0.3

  0.3

  0.1

  36

  North West

  40.5

  36.5

  4.1

  1.1

  0.9

  0.4

  41

  Yorkshire and the Humber

  32.7

  29.2

  3.5

  0.8

  0.8

  0.3

  37

  East Midlands

  31.6

  28.6

  3.0

  0.8

  1.7

  0.2

  31

  West Midlands

  35.0

  30.7

  4.3

  1.1

  1.0

  0.4

  37

  East of England

  48.8

  42.8

  6.0

  1.8

  1.6

  0.6

  36

  London

  49.0

  40.8

  8.3

  1.9

  1.7

  0.6

  33

  South East

  80.3

  69.7

  10.5

  3.1

  2.8

  0.9

  34

  South West

  50.2

  44.5

  5.7

  1.6

  1.4

  0.4

  30

  England

  382.6

  336.3

  46.4

  12.5

  11.3

  3.9

  35

  1997–98

  North East

  14.4

  13.4

  1.1

  0.3

  0.3

  0.1

  31

  North West

  40.5

  36.5

  4.0

  1.2

  1.0

  0.4

  38

  Yorkshire and the Humber

  32.9

  29.7

  3.2

  0.9

  0.8

  0.3

  36

  East Midlands

  32.5

  29.3

  3.3

  0.9

  0.8

  0.3

  35

  West Midlands

  33.9

  29.6

  4.2

  1.1

  1.0

  0.4

  37

  East of England

  47.2

  41.2

  6.0

  1.8

  1.6

  0.5

  32

  London

  45.9

  38.4

  7.5

  1.9

  1.7

  0.6

  36

  South East

  78.2

  68.3

  9.9

  3.1

  2.7

  0.9

  32

  South West

  49.7

  44.2

  5.5

  1.6

  1.4

  0.5

  34

  England

  375.2

  330.6

  44.6

  12.8

  11.3

  3.9

  34

  1996–97

  North East

  14.4

  13.3

  1.1

  0.3

  0.3

  0.1

  38

  North West

  39.2

  35.0

  4.2

  1.2

  1.0

  0.4

  35

  Yorkshire and the Humber

  32.3

  28.9

  3.4

  0.9

  0.8

  0.2

  31

  East Midlands

  30.8

  27.8

  3.0

  0.9

  0.8

  0.3

  34

  West Midlands

  32.9

  28.9

  4.0

  1.0

  0.9

  0.3

  33

  East of England

  43.2

  37.6

  5.6

  1.8

  1.6

  0.5

  35

  London

  42.3

  35.2

  7.1

  1.8

  1.6

  0.6

  37

  South East

  71.1

  61.9

  9.2

  2.9

  2.5

  0.9

  35

  South West

  47.1

  42.0

  5.1

  1.6

  1.3

  0.5

  34

  England

  353.3

  310.8

  42.5

  12.4

  10 7

  3.7

  35

  1995–96

  North East

  14.4

  13.3

  1.2

  0.4

  0.3

  0.1

  38

  North West

  39.0

  34.8

  4.2

  1.1

  1.0

  0.4

  36

  Yorkshire and the Humber

  33.4

  29.6

  3.7

  1.0

  0.8

  0.3

  30

  East Midlands

  31.5

  28.1

  3.3

  1.0

  0.9

  0.3

  33

  West Midlands

  32.2

  28.2

  4.0

  1.1

  1.0

  0.3

  35

  East of England

  42.9

  37.3

  5.6

  1.8

  1.6

  0.5

  33

  London

  40.3

  33.8

  6.5

  1.8

  1.5

  0.6

  37

  South East

  69.9

  60.9

  9.3

  3.1

  2.7

  0.9

  32

  South West

  45.3

  40.1

  5.2

  1.7

  1.4

  0.4

  31

  England

  348.8

  305.9

  42.9

  13.0

  11.3

  3.8

  33

  1994–95

  North East

  15.9

  14.6

  1.4

  0.4

  0.4

  0.1

  32

  North West

  42.4

  37.8

  4.6

  1.3

  1.2

  0.5

  40

  Yorkshire and the Humber

  35.7

  31.6

  4.1

  1.1

  1.0

  0.3

  31

  East Midlands

  33.6

  30.0

  3.6

  1.1

  1.0

  0.3

  31

  West Midlands

  34.0

  29.9

  4.1

  1.2

  1.1

  0.4

  36

  East of England

  45.3

  39.4

  5.9

  1.9

  1.7

  0.6

  31

  London

  40.7

  34.4

  6.3

  1.6

  1.4

  0.5

  35

  South East

  71.7

  62.4

  9.3

  3.1

  2.7

  0.9

  32

  South West

  48.5

  42.6

  5.9

  1.8

  1.6

  0.5

  32

  England

  368.0

  322.8

  45.2

  13.6

  12.1

  4.0

  33

  511W

  Planning applications and appeals against refusal: England 1990–91 to 2000–01

  Planning applications1

  Appeals against refusal2

  Decided

  Granted

  Refused

  Received

  Decided

  Allowed

  Percentage of appeals allowed

  1993–94

  North East

  16.8

  15.4

  1.4

  0.4

  0.4

  0.1

  33

  North West

  43.2

  38.5

  4.7

  1.2

  1.2

  0.4

  37

  Yorkshire and the Humber

  35.9

  31.7

  4.1

  1.1

  1.0

  0.3

  27

  East Midlands

  33.4

  29.8

  3.6

  1.0

  1.0

  0.3

  33

  West Midlands

  35.1

  30.9

  4.2

  1.2

  1.0

  0.4

  35

  East of England

  45.0

  39.1

  5.9

  1.9

  1.7

  0.5

  33

  London

  39.4

  33.0

  6.4

  1.6

  1.5

  0.6

  37

  South East

  68.6

  59.3

  9.3

  3.0

  2.8

  0.9

  32

  South West

  48.6

  42.6

  6.0

  1.9

  1.7

  0.5

  31

  England

  366.1

  320.4

  45.7

  13.4

  12.2

  4.0

  33

  1992–93

  North East

  16.7

  15.1

  1.6

  0.4

  0.4

  0.2

  39

  North West

  44.3

  38.6

  5.7

  1.5

  1.4

  0.6

  40

  Yorkshire and the Humber

  35.9

  30.9

  5.0

  1.3

  1.2

  0.4

  31

  East Midlands

  33.4

  29.2

  4.2

  1.2

  1.1

  0.4

  34

  West Midlands

  35.4

  30.2

  5.2

  1.3

  1.1

  0.4

  31

  East of England

  44.5

  37.8

  6.7

  2.1

  1.9

  0.6

  33

  London

  38.6

  31.3

  7.4

  1.9

  1.7

  0.6

  36

  South East

  68.0

  57.0

  10.9

  3.6

  3.2

  1.1

  34

  South West

  48.7

  41.3

  7.3

  2.4

  2.2

  0.7

  32

  England

  365.4

  311.4

  54.0

  15.7

  14.2

  4.8

  34

  1991–92

  North East

  17.3

  15.5

  1.9

  0.5

  0.4

  0.1

  34

  North West

  49.3

  42.0

  7.3

  1.8

  1.6

  0.6

  36

  Yorkshire and the Humber

  40.9

  34.4

  6.5

  1.6

  1.4

  0.4

  30

  East Midlands

  36.7

  31.1

  5.6

  1.5

  1.4

  0.5

  33

  West Midlands

  39.0

  32.6

  6.4

  1.7

  1.4

  0.4

  30

  East of England

  49.7

  40.8

  8.9

  2.7

  2.5

  0.8

  31

  London

  42.5

  33.5

  9.0

  2.2

  2.0

  0.7

  35

  South East

  74.6

  60.5

  14.1

  4.5

  4.0

  1.3

  33

  South West

  54.1

  44.1

  10.0

  3.1

  2.8

  0.9

  32

  England

  404.2

  334.5

  69.7

  19.5

  17.5

  5.7

  32

  1990–91

  North East

  17.5

  15.5

  1.9

  0.5

  0.5

  0.1

  30

  North West

  53.0

  44.2

  8.8

  2.0

  1.8

  0.7

  38

  Yorkshire and the Humber

  42.7

  34.9

  7.8

  1.7

  1.5

  0.5

  32

  East Midlands

  40.1

  33.0

  7.2

  1.7

  1.5

  0.5

  33

  West Midlands

  41.5

  34.0

  7.5

  1.8

  1.6

  0.5

  32

  East of England

  55.3

  43.5

  11.8

  3.3

  2.9

  0.9

  32

  London

  44.8

  34.6

  10.3

  2.5

  2.2

  0.8

  36

  South East

  82.6

  65.0

  17.6

  5.3

  4.6

  1.5

  32

  South West

  60.7

  47.7

  13.1

  3.6

  3.2

  1.0

  32

  England

  438.3

  352.4

  85.9

  22.4

  19.7

  6.5

  33

  1 Section 70 planning applications, ie excludes applications for listed buildings, advertisements and conservation area consents

  2 Figures relate to the number of appeals against section 70 planning applications refused in the year, not the number of appeals received in the year

  Fridges
  Mrs. Spelman
  To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions what steps the Government are taking to ensure that local authority schemes for recycling and disposing of fridges comply with EU regulations. [16404]

  Mr. Meacher
  I have been asked to reply.

  The Department has written to all local authorities informing them of the requirements of EC Regulation 2037/2000 regarding the recycling/disposal of fridges. A further letter will be issued shortly to remind local authorities of their obligations to receive and collect waste refrigeration equipment from householders. Guidance on
  512W
  storage of waste refrigeration equipment has been issued in draft and we are currently considering funding options for local authorities.

DEFENCE

  Defence Academy
  Mr. Keith Simpson
  To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will publish the job specification drawn up for the appointment of the head of the Defence Academy. [15345]

  Mr. Ingram
  [holding answer 16 November 20011: The Defence Academy of the United Kingdom is to be a national and international centre of excellence, providing

  513W
  civilian and military personnel with high quality education, primarily at postgraduate level, and conducting research in fields related to defence. It will bring together, inter alia, the existing Joint Service Command and Staff College, the Royal College of Defence Studies and the Royal Military College of Science (RMCS). It is intended to exert increasing influence with national and international military and academic institutions and to provide a focus for the research effort of the existing colleges in support of defence objectives, including the development of policy and doctrine by the policy director and the joint doctrine and concepts centre. The role of the head of the academy is to establish the academy, and to develop and run it in such a way as to achieve these aims.

  The head will have overall responsibility for the academy's collective performance in delivering its outputs. While delivery of these outputs will be delegated to the heads of the component organisations, he will remain accountable for them. In particular, he/she will:
  Provide a clear vision for the academy and ensure that the teaching and research it provides are coherent and responsive to customer needs and to developing national and international circumstances.
  Create and develop links with national and international military and academic bodies and institutions, in order to establish the academy as a major influence on thinking worldwide on defence issues.
  Develop a strategic plan for the future development of the academy and the Shrivenham site, including future arrangements for academic provision and future contractual and support arrangements, to ensure coherence and cost-effectiveness of teaching and research activities.

  To facilitate the achievement of these objectives, the head of the academy will:
  Establish and maintain effective arrangements for the management of academy business and the development of synergies and relationships within and beyond the academy, and give broad policy guidance.
  Establish and maintain a focus for research in support of defence objectives, including the development of policy and doctrine by the policy director and joint doctrine and concepts centre.
  Encourage the fullest international and inter-agency participation in the academy's courses, in support of policy and defence diplomacy objectives.
  Oversee the establishment of the defence leadership centre, the joint service warrant officers' school, the defence sixth-form college, the defence technical undergraduate scheme and the defence finance training cell.
  Manage a single budget incorporating those of the component organisations.

  The head of the academy will also be responsible, through RMCS, for Welbeck sixth-form college. In addition, two new organisations will be set up as part of the academy: a defence leadership centre and a joint services warrant officers school.

  The head of the academy will report to the vice chief of the Defence staff (VCDS). The second reporting officer will be the Chief of the Defence Staff (CDS). The academy budget will form part of the central top level budget.

  A policy board, chaired by CDS, and comprising key stakeholders and external members, will deal with strategy, high-level tasking and funding issues. This will subsume the role of the existing policy boards of the individual colleges but each college will retain
  514W
  arrangements for providing access to senior figures from academia and industry through an advisory board. An academy advisory board, chaired by the head, on which key stakeholders and customers would be represented, will agree outputs and match requirements between customers in line with capacity in the academy. The membership of the academy level boards will be determined by the head, in consultation with the Chiefs of Staff and other interested parties. The head will direct academy business through a management board, which will comprise the heads of the component organisations.

  The head of the academy will be consulted on decisions on the most senior staff and academic appointments within the academy, and on the provision of academic advice and support.

  By April 2002, he is to have put in place the academy's unified management structure. As part of that process, he is to:
  Review the reporting and customer liaison arrangements and make changes where appropriate to ensure that they are fully streamlined, eliminating duplication and applying best working practices.
  Review and rationalise the senior management structure within the academy, define the structure and roles of the academy's central organisation, and make proposals for improvement to performance across the academy, particularly in the area of enhanced coherence.

  By April 2003, he is to develop proposals for the longer-term size, shape and status of the academy including the rationalisation of academic provision and future contractual and support arrangements.

  He is to carry out a post-project evaluation of the new organisation and its constituent parts after 12 months of implementation, beginning in April 2003.

  Mr. Keith Simpson
  To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will publish the charter of the Defence Academy and list the members of the advisory board and constituent parts of the Academy. [15350]

  Mr. Ingram
  [holding answer 16 November 20011]: The Defence Academy will comprise the Joint Services Command and Staff College, the Royal College of Defence Studies (which will remain in London), the Royal Military College of Science, the Conflict Studies Research Centre and three new elements: a defence leadership centre, a joint services warrant officers' school and a school of finance management.

  The Defence Academy will be established on 1 April 2002 as a national and international centre for postgraduate education and research in defence fields.

  A charter, or similar, for the Defence Academy, including a constitution for an advisory board, will follow further detailed implementation work.

  RAF Bases
  Mr. Gray
  To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many civilian staff are employed at(a) RAF Lyneham and (b) RAF Brize Norton. [17040]

  Dr. Moonie
  There are 269 Ministry of Defence civil servants and approximately 490 contracted and sub-contracted staff employed at RAF Lyneham, and 555 MOD civil servants and approximately 60 contracted
  515W
  and sub-contracted staff at RAF Brize Norton. Numbers vary from day to day depending on the requirement to use sub-contractors to carry out specialist tasks.

  September 11
  Mr. Weir
  To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what representations he has made to the Energy Review Group regarding security at nuclear power stations following the events of 11 September. [16794]

  Mr. Ingram
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: None. The security of nuclear power stations is a matter for the Department of Trade and Industry. We are in close contact with the DTI and other Government Departments concerning any contribution the armed forces could make in this area.

  Mr. Weir
  To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what representations he has made to the Nuclear Inspectorate regarding security at nuclear installations following the events of 11 September. [16795]

  Mr. Ingram
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: None. The security of the Ministry of Defence nuclear installations is an MOD responsibility. However, close contact is maintained with the Nuclear Installations Inspectorate for health and safety matters at MOD licensed nuclear sites.

  Royal Marines
  Mr. Barker
  To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many recruits there were to the Royal Marines this year; and how many of these were(a) invalided out and (b) discharged for disciplinary reasons, before completing their course. [17345]

  Mr. Ingram
  In the last 12 months, 1,180 recruits joined the Royal Marines Commando training centre at Lympstone. Of these, 51 were medically discharged and one was discharged for disciplinary offences before the end of the course.

  Mr. Barker
  To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many people were recruited this year to the Royal Marines, by rank, at(a) 16 years old, (b) 18 years old and (c) 21 years old. [17340]

  Mr. Ingram
  Information for this year is available from 23 April to 12 November. The number of recruits to the Royal Marine Corp is set out in the table:

  Ratings

  Officers

  Under 18s

  219

  —

  18–21

  358

  21

  Over 21s

  151

  40

  Total

  728

  61

  All ratings join as a Marine Second Class and officers as a Second Lieutenant. The ages of officers recruited cannot be broken down.

  Depleted Uranium
  Dr. Jack Cunningham
  To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what(a) guns and (b) gun barrels used for the test firing of depleted uranium shells at Eskmeals have been removed to another range not licensed for the testing
  516W
  of depleted uranium; who authorised such transfers; whether this complied with health and safety regulations; and if he will make a statement. [16885]

  Dr. Moonie
  I believe my right hon. Friend may be referring to two Challenger 2 tank gun barrels used for test firing depleted uranium (DU) ammunition at the Kirkcudbright training area, but stored at the QinetiQ Eskmeals range. These were transferred on 6 November to the firing range at Shoeburyness, for test firing of non-DU ammunition, to support a Challenger 2 tank safety trial to determine acceptable limits of gun barrel erosion. The transfer was carried out by QinetiQ. A risk assessment by the radiation protection adviser showed that the levels of DU in the two barrels were so low and the DU so inaccessible that the material is not a radioactive substance within the meaning of the Ionising Radiation Regulations. These are the regulations that protect workers and members of the public who maybe exposed to ionising radiation and radioactive material from work activities.

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS

  Greenpeace/Friends of the Earth
  Mr. Peter Ainsworth
  To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when she last met representatives of(a) Greenpeace and (b) Friends of the Earth; and what matters were discussed. [17477]

  Margaret Beckett
  Representatives from both Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth attended the Waste Summit which I hosted on Wednesday 21 November. Various issues relating to the future direction of the UK's waste strategy were discussed.

  Scientific Research
  Mr. Peter Ainsworth
  To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will list those agencies or laboratories which have conducted scientific research on behalf of her Department in the past year which are not accredited by the UK Accreditation Service. [10610]

  Margaret Beckett
  [holding answer 26 October 2001]: DEFRA commissions research with several hundred contractors, and through them many sub-contractors. The UK Accreditation Service standard is just one of a number of quality standards which such contractors may apply and meet. My Department does not hold information on its hundreds of contractors and it could not be provided except at disproportionate cost.

  Countryside Visitors
  Mr. Breed
  To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs by what means she is monitoring the types of visits people undertook to the countryside in the 12 months since November 2000. [16722]

  Alun Michael
  The English Tourism Council undertakes a survey of tourism by residents of the United Kingdom. The survey provides information on visits to the countryside and results for 2001 will be available in early 2002.
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  In addition, the Countryside Agency will be undertaking its leisure day visits survey in January 2002 to report back in 2003.

  Utilities
  Mr. Laurence Robertson
  To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans she has to review the statutory rights of utilities; and if she will make a statement. [12362]

  Mr. Meacher
  [holding answer 5 November 2001]: This Department has responsibility only for the water companies. The Government published the draft Water Bill in November 2000, which includes proposals for certain changes to the statutory rights and responsibilities of water companies. These include duties to conserve water and to maintain up-to-date drought plans.

  The draft Water Bill would also require companies to disclose any links between their directors' pay and performance standards to ensure greater accountability by the companies.

  Changes to the statutory rights and responsibilities of water companies are also possible as part of the Government's on-going consideration of competition in the water industry.

  Organic Farms
  Mr. Paterson
  To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps she will take to protect potential organic farms from the effects of wind-blown contamination from nearby GM crop trials; and if she will make a statement. [12460]

  Mr. Meacher
  [holding answer 6 November 2001]: The farm scale evaluation (FSE) trials of GM crops are separated from neighbouring compatible crops to protect them from the effects of wind-blown pollen. The separation distances depend on the type of crop and should ensure that, at the closest separation, cross-pollination does not exceed a maximum of 1 per cent. In practice, it will generally be below that level. The separation distances are greater in relation to organic crops than they are for ordinary, conventional crops. I am not aware of any instance where an FSE trial has affected the status of an organic crop. We want to maintain that position for the remainder of the FSE programme and are therefore keeping the separation distances under review. The general issue of the terms on which GM and non-GM crops might co-exist is one that the Government want to resolve before there is any question of commercial GM planting. This is not just a scientific issue, but one of public acceptability.

  Convention on Biodiversity
  Llew Smith
  To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will make a statement on the(a) issues discussed at and (b) outcome of the seventh meeting of the subsidiary bodies for scientific, technical and technological advice of the convention on biodiversity. [15853]

  Mr. Meacher
  The subsidiary body on scientific, technical and technological advice (SBSTTA) met in Montreal from 12 to 16 November. The meeting made recommendations on a number of issues to the sixth 518W
  meeting of the conference of the parties (COP6) to the convention on biological diversity, to be held in April 2002 in The Hague.

  Most attention was focused on forest biological diversity, where SBSTTA proposed a comprehensive programme of further work. This will cover the status and trends of forest biodiversity, options for its conservation and sustainable use, and the role of the socio-economic enabling environment. It will include the impact of the unsustainable harvesting of non-timber forest resources, such as bushmeat.

  Other recommendations included proposals for a global strategy for plant conservation and an international initiative for the conservation and sustainable use of pollinators. Technical advice was prepared on the use of incentive measures to secure the objectives of the convention; incorporating biodiversity considerations into environmental impact assessment; and designing monitoring programmes and indicators to measure the state of biodiversity. SBSTTA also welcomed publication of the global biodiversity outlook, a comprehensive stocktaking that will help guide further implementation of the convention.

  The UK looks forward to making the best use of SBSTTA's advice, on these and other issues, including by working to ensure a successful outcome at COP6, particularly on the priority issues of forest biodiversity, alien species, access and benefit-sharing; and agreement of a strategic plan for the convention.

  Coal Mine Methane
  Mr. Robathan
  To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent estimate she has made of the benefits to the environment of capturing coal mine methane and using it to generate electricity. [15723]

  Mr. Meacher
  A report produced for the Department earlier this year estimated that current UK emissions from abandoned coal mines are likely to be in the range of 20 to 300 kilo tonnes. The upper end of this range is equivalent to around 11 per cent. of the UK's total current methane emissions, or about 1 per cent. of UK greenhouse gas emissions as a whole. The emissions estimate is highly uncertain and we plan to carry out further work to gain a better understanding of the estimate, including the amount of gas that is in practice emitted and the potential for reducing these emissions by, for example, using the methane for electricity generation. I am aware that this Department, the Department for Trade and Industry and HM Treasury have been in discussion with the Association of Coal Mine Methane Operators about how the Government could help projects that use coal mine methane to generate electricity.

  Rivers
  Malcolm Bruce
  To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what proportion of rivers were(a) good, (b) fair and (c) poor quality in (i) 1996, (ii) 1997, (iii) 1998, (iv) 1999, (v) 2000 and (vi) 2001. [15895]
  519W
  Mr. Breed
  To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what proportion of rivers in England were in(a) good, (b) fair and (c) poor quality in (i) 1996, (ii) 1997, (iii) 1998, (iv) 1999, (v) 2000 and (vi) 2001. [16581]

  Mr. Meacher
  In England, the Environment Agency's general quality assessment (GQA) scheme classifies water quality in rivers and canals. Chemical quality, the most widely used measure, is assessed on the basis of biochemical oxygen demand and concentrations of dissolved oxygen and ammonia. Stretches of rivers and canals are assigned as good, fair, poor or bad based on different degrees of chemical quality. Results from 1996 until 2000, the latest year for which figures are available, are as follows:

  General quality assessment of rivers: chemical quality, England

  Percentage length of river

  Year

  Good

  Fair

  Poor

  Bad

  1996

  54

  35.1

  9.8

  1.1

  1997

  52.3

  35.5

  11.0

  1.2

  1998

  54.8

  34.1

  10.3

  0.8

  1999

  59.4

  31.7

  8.3

  0.6

  2000

  64.4

  29.3

  5.9

  0.4

  Energy Efficiency
  Mr. Andrew Turner
  To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many households in the Isle of Wight spent over 10 per cent. of their household income on fuel and were living in fuel poverty in(a) 1997, (b) 1998, (c) 1999, (d) 2000 and (e) 2001. [16123]

  Mr. Meacher
  [holding answer 19 November 2001]: The estimates of the number of fuel poor in England are based on data from the English house condition survey. Due to the nature of the survey, it is not possible to estimate the number of fuel poor within individual areas such as the Isle of Wight. The latest available information suggests that for the whole south-east Government office region, there were an estimated 270,000 households in fuel poverty in 1998.

  ug/m3 (micrograms per cubic metre)

  Index

  Sulphur dioxide 15 minutes

  Nitrogen dioxide 1 hour

  Ozone Running 8 hours

  Particles (PM10) Running 24 hours

  Carbon monoxide Running 8 hours

  Very High

  10

  1400

  1400

  1,2180

  1100

  120

  High

  7–9

  200–399

  300–399

  90–179

  75–99

  15–19.9

  Moderate

  4–6

  199–100

  150–299

  50–89

  50–74

  10–14.9

  Low

  1–3

  3100

  3150

  350

  350

  310

  1 Greater than

  2 One hour concentration

  3 Less than

  The national automatic monitoring network currently includes 120 sites. Data are produced continuously on an hourly basis. Ratified data is available up to 30 June 2001. After this date care must be taken in interpretation of the pollution levels recorded since high measurements may be the result of instrument error that is still to be identified. Levels recorded at each monitoring site are defined according to the pollutant that is in the highest band during the day.
  520W

  Rural Businesses
  Malcolm Bruce
  To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what was the turnover of businesses based in rural areas in the United Kingdom in(a) 1996, (b) 1997, (c) 1998, (d) 1999, (e) 2000 and (f) 2001. [16542]

  Alun Michael
  The turnover (£000) of VAT-based enterprises in rural areas (districts/unitary authorities as classified by the Countryside Agency) in England is as follows:

  Year

  £

  1999

  357,774,110

  2000

  360,296,895

  2001

  364,896,980

  Source:

  Office for National Statistics

  It is not possible to provide figures for earlier years because of changes in geographical boundaries.

  Air Quality
  Dr. Kumar
  To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many air quality incidents have been recorded(a) in the UK, (b) in the north-east and (c) in Teesside; and what was the cause of the most potentially dangerous of those incidents in the last 12 months. [16425]

  Mr. Meacher
  [holding answer 20 November 2001]: We usually consider a "pollution incident" as an event in which high or very high air pollution has been monitored. The Department of Health's Committee on the effects of air pollution (COMEAP) has defined levels of high air pollution. They advise that during such episodes significant effects may be noticed by sensitive individuals and action to avoid or reduce these effects may be needed (e.g. reducing exposure by spending less time in polluted areas outdoors). During episodes of very high pollution the effects on sensitive individuals described for high levels of pollution may worsen. The pollution thresholds adopted by COMEAP are shown as follows.

  Across the UK there were 10 days on which pollution levels for ozone were measured as high at one or more sites. For ozone, there were no episodes of high pollution in the north-east or Teeside. Ozone episodes are caused by a combination of sunlight reacting on volatile organic compounds and nitrogen dioxide. These pollutants can be transported long distances and a proportion of the ozone measured during these episodes is likely to have originated from continental sources.
  521W
  For sulphur dioxide there was only one incident of high pollution recorded, at Grangemouth on 24 August. This is likely to have been caused by an industrial source. A second episode measured in London is unratified data and likely to be instrument error.

  For PM10 there were 50 days on which pollution levels were high or very high at one or more sites. The highest pollution was recorded at Bexley (190 ug/m3) on 3 November. The episode arose from the combination of calm weather conditions across south-east England and bonfire night celebrations. This was one of the highest measurements of PM10 recorded in the UK since 1992 when monitoring commenced. The second highest measurement was recorded in Manchester and arose due to cutting of concrete slabs adjacent to the monitoring station; this probably did not reflect wider air pollution.

  In the north-east there were 10 days of high or very high pollution at Scunthorpe (all for PM10). Local industrial sources are likely to have contributed to these episodes. In Leeds, there was one day on which pollution levels for PM10) were high. There were no episodes of high pollution for PM10 recorded at the Middlesbrough monitoring site in Teesside.

  No episodes of high or very high pollution have been recorded in the UK during 2001 for carbon monoxide or nitrogen dioxide.

  Departmental Costs
  Mr. Breed
  To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will provide a breakdown of the cost of(a) settling the dispute between her Department and the Public and Commercial Services Union and (b) charges by the European Union for not meeting (i) foot and mouth compensation and (ii) other support payments. [16588]

  Mr. Morley
  (a) A breakdown of the cost of settling the dispute between the Department and the Public and Commercial Services Union cannot be given because this depends on funding and the outcome of negotiations with the union.

  (b) (i) There should be no charge by the European Union in respect of foot and mouth compensation as there are no deadlines for payment. The dispute has not delayed foot and mouth payments.

  (ii) The main impact of the industrial action so far on other CAP support payments is that many of them will be made later in the regulatory payment 'window' than would otherwise have been the case. The extent to which payments may fall outside of the window cannot be predicted since it depends on the course which the industrial action takes and the success of mitigating action being taken by my Department to ensure that delays are kept to the minimum. To date no charges have been imposed by the European Union as a result of delays caused by the industrial action.

  Flooding (Insurance)
  Mr. Laurence Robertson
  To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what discussions she has had with insurance companies about the provision of services to people who live on flood plains; and if she will make a statement. [17722]
  522W
  Mr. Morley
  The Government maintain close links with the insurance industry to help ensure continued availability of affordable flood cover. There is an agreement among Association of British Insurers (ABI) member companies that they will continue to provide flood cover, except in exceptional circumstances, for domestic properties and small businesses which they currently insure, during 2001 and 2002. Cases where there is an alleged breach of this agreement have been referred by DEFRA to the ABI for investigation. However, it must be recognised that insurance companies need to take a commercial decision as to what risk they will cover and on what terms. Also, the insurance industry is a competitive one and customers may need to shop around to obtain the best deal.

  My hon. Friend the Economic Secretary to the Treasury and I met the ABI on 5 September to discuss our mutual aim of ensuring that affordable flood insurance cover continues to be generally available after December 2002. Further discussions between officials have taken place.

  Together with the flood defence operating authorities, we are reducing the risk of flooding and are communicating this to the insurance industry. We are reducing the risk through substantial increases in investment in flood and coastal defences (which now totals over £400 million a year). Flood defences are being repaired, renewed, maintained and improved. Flood warning arrangements are continually being improved. The Government have issued strengthened guidance to local planning authorities on control of development in flood risk areas, and are reviewing the financial and institutional arrangements under which the flood defence service is delivered.

EDUCATION AND SKILLS

  Sure Start
  Mr. Andrew Turner
  To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Skills if she will list the location of the sure start programmes which(a) are in operation, (b) are in the process of being implemented and (c) are planned; and what are the criteria for inclusion in each element of the programme. [14134]

  Yvette Cooper
  [holding answer 13 November 2001]: Local authority districts are invited to develop sure start programmes on the basis of levels of disadvantage and poverty, though achieving a good mix between rural, urban, semi-urban and coastal areas and across the country is also ensured. Once a district has been invited to develop a programme it is up to local stakeholders—from the voluntary, statutory and community sectors—to decide upon the local catchment area. Partnerships are asked to choose a catchment area with high levels of need and which is among the poorest in the district.

  Table A shows the locations of sure start programmes for which funding has been approved and are delivering services or starting to deliver them. Table B shows the locations which are currently developing sure start programmes. All of these areas will receive approval once their plans meet the standards set out in the sure start guidance. The tables have been placed in the Libraries.
  523W
  Mr. Willis
  To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Skills what plans she has to extend sure start to all local education authorities; and if she will make a statement. [15557]

  Jacqui Smith
  Sure start aims to support young children and their families living in disadvantaged areas so that they have improved life chances. The Government have now announced 437 out of the 500 sure start programmes planned to be operational by April 2004. These are located in 197 different local authority districts and in 130 out of the 150 local education authority (LEA) areas. At least a further 63 programmes will be announced next year which may extend sure start to more LEAs. In addition to the 500 full-scale sure start programmes, we have allocated £22 million to establish 50 small sure start programmes to reach pockets of deprivation, particularly those in rural areas. These will be located in 34 different LEA areas, bringing the total number of LEAs with a sure start presence to 135.

  The experience and lessons learned from sure start will be shared widely so that, even where there is no local sure start programme, children and parents in the area will benefit from access to improved services.

  Dr. Kumar
  To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Skills if she will make a statement on the cost and performance of the sure start programme(a) nationally and (b) the boroughs of Middlesbrough (ii) Redcar and (iii) Cleveland. [16215]

  Jacqui Smith
  [holding answer 16 November 2001]: The Government are committed to establishing 500 sure start programmes by March 2004. In July of this year, the fifth wave of sure start was announced. This brought the total number of programmes announced so far to 437. Over 200 of these programmes have received final approval and are delivering services to children and families in disadvantaged areas. In total, Middlesbrough, Redcar and Cleveland have been invited to submit plans for eight sure start programmes. Of these, three have been approved, one is in the final stages of planning and the other four are in the very early stages of planning.

  Nationally, over £600 million has been committed to approved programmes for their first three years of operation. The three approved programmes in Middlesbrough, Redcar and Cleveland will receive approximately £6.5 million of this.

  Village Schools
  Mr. Pickles
  To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Skills what factors militate against the presumption against closure of village schools. [17197]

  Mr. Timms
  Our guidance to school organisation committees makes it clear that the presumption continues to be against the closure of rural schools, and that in considering such proposals the committee should take account of the following factors:

  the accessibility of alternative schools and sites;

  the standard of the school and the standards of alternative schools;

  the overall supply of school places in the area and the likely future demand for places;

  524W

  the overall effect of the closure on the local community;

  the cost implications of the possible options;

  any points made by the LEA;

  any points made by the school proposed for closure; the views of parents and other interested parties;

  the effect on the school journey, including long-term transport costs, and whether the closure will result in more pupils experiencing longer journeys to school and more pupils being driven to school by car.

  We have not said that no rural school should close, but the case for closure needs to be strong and the proposals clearly in the best interest of the children, parents and education in the area.

  Asylum Seekers
  Dr. Tonge
  To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Skills how many asylum seekers' children are being educated in UK schools; and what is the(a) local education authority, (b) country of origin and (c) age of the children. [16775]

  Mr. Timms
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: The Refugee Council recently estimated that there are approximately 70.000 children of asylum seekers and refugees in UK schools. However, it is not possible to specify the local education authorities, country of origin and age of these children as this Department does not require local education authorities or schools to keep this information.

  Dr. Tonge
  To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Skills how much money is allocated to UK schools for each asylum seeker child in their school. [16776]

  Mr. Timms
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: Schools receive funding for children of asylum seekers in the same way as they do for all other children on the school roll, through the education standard spending assessment. It is not possible to say how much each school receives through this funding mechanism. This is because this Department does not require schools and local education authorities to keep information about the numbers of children of asylum seekers on each school roll.

  Children of asylum seekers can benefit from the ethnic minority achievement grant. Local education authorities decide which schools they will need to devolve funds to, or otherwise support, under the grant, taking into account each school's particular needs. For the current financial year funding stands at £154 million. In addition, for 2001–02, £1.5 million has been made available to support the education costs of children of asylum seekers. This funding is available to schools in the cluster areas to help settle these children into school and acquire English language skills.

  South Tyneside
  Mr. Hepburn
  To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Skills which schools in south Tyneside have been granted funding for teacher training. [17401]

  Mr. Timms
  The information is not collected centrally. Schools may receive funding for activities related to the initial and continuing training of teachers from a variety of sources.
  525W

  Education Action Zones
  Mr. Brady
  To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Skills on what date she took a decision to end the education action zone programme. [17628]

  Mr. Timms
  All education action zones (EAZs) will complete their agreed full statutory term. Under the School Standards and Framework Act 1998, EAZs had a maximum statutory term of five years. Our announcement on 14 November proposes that, wherever possible, we aim to continue to support ex-EAZ schools through our excellence in cities (EiC) initiative, following the end of the zones statutory term.

  Mr. Brady
  To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Skills if she will publish proposals for future development of former education action zones in(a) rural and (b) suburban areas. [17629]

  Mr. Timms
  Wherever possible, we aim to find ways of continuing to support ex-EAZ schools following the end of each zone's statutory five-year term. Depending on local circumstances, we hope to do this largely through the excellence in cities initiative. My officials are starting discussions with each zone on the future of the zone, with a view to having firm proposals well before the end of its statutory term.

  Mr. Brady
  To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Skills what the costs of winding up education action zones will be. [17632]

  Mr. Timms
  All education action zones will complete their agreed full statutory term. Each education action zone (EAZ) will need to make arrangements to dispose of any assets and to meet any employment liabilities in accordance with guidance issued by the Department for Education and Skills in the EAZ handbook.

  The costs will vary from zone to zone depending on their individual circumstances and liabilities. All costs will be met from within the existing education action zone programme budget.

  Mr. Brady
  To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Skills what changes to the excellence in cities scheme she proposes to accommodate former education action zones. [17630]

  Mr. Timms
  My Department will discuss with each education action zone, and the relevant excellence in cities (EiC) partnership, the way forward for ex-zone schools. This could include the creation of new non-statutory EiC action zones in existing EiC areas or the development of new excellence clusters in areas not currently covered by EiC.

  Mr. Brady
  To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Skills if she will list the education action zones which(a) have and (b) have not achieved their objectives. [17631]

  Mr. Timms
  All education action zones (EAZs) have individually agreed targets. These targets cover the zone's full five-year statutory term. It will not be possible to assess whether each zone has met its objectives until the end of that term. Progress towards these objectives will continue to be monitored.
  526W

  Student Support
  Mr. Rendel
  To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Skills if she will list the members of the working group established to serve on her Department's review of student support; and if she will make a statement. [17476]

  Margaret Hodge
  My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Skills announced on 3 October 2001 that she is leading a review of student funding, including representatives from the Department for Education and Skills, HM Treasury and Inland Revenue.

  Mr. Rendel
  To ask the Secretary of State for Education and Skills what research she has commissioned as part of her Department's review of student support; and if she will make a statement. [17475]

  Margaret Hodge
  We have examined existing research on students' attitudes to higher education, their income and expenditure, as well as perceptions of debt. Since 1998 we have commissioned further research to monitor the impact of our reforms in higher education.

FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS

  Western Sahara (Referendum)
  Jeremy Corbyn
  To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he expects the UN administration in the Western Sahara to name a date for a referendum on the future governance of the territory.

  Mr. Bradshaw
  The UK supported United Nations Security Council resolution 1359, which was passed unanimously on 29 June 2001. This reiterated full support for the on-going efforts of MINURSO to implement the settlement plan and the agreements by the parties to hold a free, fair and impartial referendum for the self-determination of the people of western Sahara.

  The United Nations Security Council resolution made no provision for setting a date for the referendum and at this stage we do not know when it will be possible to set such a date.

  The resolution does, however, reaffirm the UN's commitment to assist the parties in achieving a just and lasting solution to the question of the western Sahara. The personal envoy of the Secretary-General is currently engaged in an attempt to resolve the dispute. The special envoy is discussing with the parties the draft framework agreement (as set out in the United Nations Secretary-General's report of June 2001) which may offer a mutually agreed political solution to the dispute. He has also discussed with the Polisario their proposals to overcome the obstacles faced in the settlement plan.

  Oil for Food Policy (Iraq)
  Mr. Drew
  To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the performance of the oil for food policy regarding Iraq and the attitude of the Iraqi Government towards this policy.
  527W
  Mr. Bradshaw
  The oil for food programme is the UN's largest humanitarian programme ever, worth some $12.5 billion last year alone. In his most recent report (September 2001), the UN Secretary-General concludes that the oil for food programme has made a considerable difference to the lives of ordinary Iraqis and, in spreading beyond the food and medicine sectors, to the rehabilitation of Iraq's civilian infrastructure.

  These achievements have been made despite the continuing efforts of the Iraqi regime to hamper the oil for food programme. For example, around $2 billion of funds lie unspent by Iraq in UN accounts and the Iraqi Central Bank consistently holds up the delivery of around $1 billion-worth of goods. Iraq continues to refuse to allow UN officials to enter Iraq to discuss a cash component for sectors identified by the UN Secretary-General as being critical, such as health, education and water and sanitation.

  Iraq (Sanctions)
  Mr. Drew
  To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what representations he has received on the impact of sanctions on the access of Iraqi citizens to clean water; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Bradshaw
  We regularly receive parliamentary and public correspondence on all aspects of sanctions on Iraq, including the water and sanitation sector.

  Since 1990, the UK has donated over £100 million of humanitarian aid to Iraq (including £5.5 million this year) for projects which include the rehabilitation of water and sanitation infrastructure. In addition, earlier this year the EU agreed a 13 million euro aid package for projects which include the provision of clean drinking water.

  By contrast, the Iraqi regime continues to hamper all aspects of the oil for food programme. At a time when around $2 billion lies unspent by Iraq in the UN escrow account, Iraq has, for example, cut spending in this sector by 18 per cent. in 2001 compared to last year. Iraq continues to refuse to allow UN officials to enter Iraq to discuss a cash component for sectors identified by the UN Secretary-General as being critical, one of which is water and sanitation.

  International Coalition (Afghanistan)
  Mr. Drew
  To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will list those countries that support the international coalition's actions in Afghanistan.

  Mr. Bradshaw
  I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Lynne Jones) on 20 November 2001,Official Report, column 182W.

  EU Political and Social Affairs Committee
  Mr. Rosindell
  To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on activities being undertaken by the EU Political and Social Affairs Committee. [14810]
  528W
  Peter Hain
  The European Union Political and Security Committee meets regularly in Brussels, usually twice a week, to discuss current foreign policy issues and questions relating to the European security and defence policy.

  Gibraltar
  Mr. MacKay
  To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if it is his policy that change in the constitutional status of Gibraltar will occur only after the agreement of the majority of the resident community. [16411]

  Peter Hain
  I refer the right hon. Member to the answer I gave to the hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Mr. Turner) on 19 November 2001,Official Report, column 26W.

  Poland
  Dr. Julian Lewis
  To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make representations to the Government of Poland about their expulsion of the representative of the US Federal Bureau of Investigation. [17037]

  Peter Hain
  It is not for Her Majesty's Government to intervene in bilateral matters of this kind between two NATO allies. Poland has given full support to the international effort against terrorism. The Polish President hosted a conference for regional Prime Ministers on 6 November to discuss concrete anti-terrorism measures.

  Kosovo
  Mr. Spring
  To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what meetings he has had since October regarding the future of Kosovo; and if he will make a statement on the result of the recent elections in the province. [16813]

  Mr. MacShane
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: The elections were a landmark in Kosovo's development as a multi-ethnic, democratic and tolerant society. I look forward to this diversity and tolerance being reflected in Kosovo's first truly democratic and representative Government.

  The Assembly elections on 17 November, in which all of Kosovo's communities participated, took place peacefully. Both the Council of Europe observer mission, led by a British expert, Owen Masters, and the OSCE's Parliamentary Assembly delegation, led by my right hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, South (Mr. George), declared the elections free and fair.

  According to preliminary results issued by the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), the Democratic League of Kosovo (LDK) won 46.29 per cent. of the vote, the Democratic Party of Kosovo (PDK) won 25.54 per cent., the Serb coalition "Return" won 10.96 per cent. and the Alliance for the Future of Kosovo (AAK) received 7.82 per cent. Final results should be known by 24 November.
  529W

  Correspondence
  Mr. Burns
  To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he will reply to the letter from the hon. Member for West Chelmsford of 26 July on his constituent Mr. Grant Davis. [16825]

  Mr. Bradshaw
  I wrote to the hon. Member on 29 October.

  Afghanistan
  David Hamilton
  To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what instructions will be given to British troops relating to the protection of local people from violence perpetrated by future governing regimes. [16666]

  Mr. Hoon
  I have been asked to reply.

  Wherever they are engaged, British forces are required to act in accordance with national and international law.

NORTHERN IRELAND

  Consultation Documents
  Sandra Gidley
  To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many consultation documents were issued by his Department from(a) 15 October to 14 January, (b) 15 January to 14 April, (c) 15 April to 14 July and (d) 15 July to 14 October in each year from 1996. [12879]

  Dr. John Reid
  The information requested is as follows:

  Number of consultation documents issued

  15 October to 14 January

  15 January to 14 April

  15 April to 14 July

  15 July to 14 October

  1996–97

  1

  2

  —

  1

  1997–98

  5

  1

  1

  —

  1998–99

  —

  2

  1

  1

  1999–2000

  —

  3

  1

  —

  2000–01

  3

  2

  1

  1

  Plastic Bullets
  Mr. Donaldson
  To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many plastic bullets were procured for the(a) Royal Ulster Constabulary and (b) Police Service of Northern Ireland in each year from 1995 to present. [16574]

  Jane Kennedy
  The table gives details of the numbers of baton rounds procured by the Royal Ulster Constabulary each year from 1995 to present.

  Year

  Baton rounds procured

  1995

  25,200

  1996

  60,875

  1997

  33,900

  1998

  75,227

  1999

  50,400

  2000

  76,320

  20011

  46,000

  1 To date

  530W
  The date the Police Service of Northern Ireland has not procured any baton rounds.

CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT

  Sport (East Midlands)
  Vernon Coaker
  To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport if she will make a statement on her plans to develop grassroots sports in the east midlands. [17058]

  Mr. Caborn
  The Government are committed to the development of sport and increasing opportunities for participation throughout the country. The strategy for sport—"A Sporting Future for All"—and the Government's plan for sport set out an action plan on how we intend to achieve those objectives. Responsibility for developing grassroots sport at the regional level rests with a number of organisations including Sport England, local authorities, local education authorities, schools, sports governing bodies, sports clubs, volunteers, and in order to ensure the best use of resources it is essential that all these interests work in partnership.

  In the east midlands, the regional sports board is providing leadership and direction to this work and in close co-operation with Sport England has engaged the main partners in developing the Region's sporting infrastructure and planning for the future.

  All of the programmes for providing better sports facilities and improving sports provision are being implemented in the region including lottery funding, where over £100 million has been committed to the region, the school sport co-ordinators programme and specialist sports colleges while the spaces for sport and arts, NOF round three and NOF green spaces programmes will all be injecting significant new resources into facilities which will be available to schools and the wider community.

  For the future I have made it clear that I wish to see strengthened regional structures for the delivery of sport in the regions which involves local decision making and strong partnerships with all the key local interests. I will be discussing these issues with the Sport England Council and its new chief executive when he is in post.

  Gambling Review
  Dr. Ladyman
  To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport how many representations she has received on the gambling review report. [17364]

  Mr. Caborn
  I refer my hon. Friend to the reply I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester, East (Mr. Vaz) on 19 November 2001,Official Report, column 22W.

  Dr. Ladyman
  To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what plans she has to implement the Gaming Board's triennial review recommendations on machine stakes and prizes. [17365]

  Mr. Caborn
  I refer my hon. Friend to the reply I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hall Green (Mr. McCabe) on 21 November 2000,Official Report, columns 313–34W.
  531W
  Dr. Ladyman
  To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what role the Minister for Tourism will have in assessing the impact of the Budd report into gambling on seaside resorts before her Department publishes its proposals. [17367]

  Mr. Caborn
  All Ministers in the Department will support and advise my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State in reaching decisions on the report; and those decisions will take proper account of the full range of her responsibilities

  Sir Teddy Taylor
  To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport how many representations she has received about recommendation 75 of the Gambling Review; and how many supported the recommendation. [17351]

  Mr. Caborn
  We have received over 100 comments on this recommendation. Four supported it in the terms in which it was set out in the report of the gambling review body. Substantially more supported the proposition in the recommendation that on-licensed premises should be entitled to up to two gaming machines by virtue of their liquor licences (with a higher entitlement for those premises which already had a higher number) but argued either for a higher entitlement of four machines or for licensing authorities to have discretion to authorise more than two machines in appropriate cases.

  Sir Teddy Taylor
  To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (1) what assessment she has made of the impact on employment if recommendation 75 of the gambling review is initiated; [17350]

  (2) what assessment she has made of the impact on publicans if recommendation 75 of the gambling review is initiated. [17349]

  Mr. Caborn
  Many of the comments on this recommendation have raised concerns about its possible impact on business and employment. We are considering all representations on the report of the gambling review body with care, but have not yet completed our assessment of them.

  Playing Fields
  Mr. Don Foster
  To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport if she will publish the figures produced by her Department's monitoring unit on the sale of playing fields for(a) April 2000-March 2001 and (b) April 1999-March 2000 for applications received for sales of (i) school playing fields under one standard pitch size as defined by Sport England as suitable for 10 year olds. (ii) school playing fields greater than one standard pitch size, (iii) non school playing fields under one standard pitch size and (iv) non school playing fields greater than the standard pitch size, stating in each case how many of the applications received by her Department were (a) successful, (b) rejected, (c) withdrawn, (d) not yet determined and (e) called in for special consideration. [17331]

  Mr. Caborn
  I refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Blaenau Gwent (Llew Smith) on 20 November 2001,Official Report, columns 189–90W.
  532W

  Offshore Wind and Biomass Projects
  Dr. Kumar
  To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport how much money has been allocated from the new opportunities fund for offshore wind and biomass projects; and if she will make a statement. [17801]

  Mr. Caborn
  The new opportunities fund will, by 2006, commit £50 million to projects that are designed to develop renewable electricity generation by building generating capacity for electricity from energy crops, build offshore wind electricity generation projects and develop small-scale biomass heat/combined heat and power projects. Of this £50 million, at least £33 million should be committed to developing renewable electricity generation by building generating capacity for electricity from energy crops, at least £10 million should be committed to building offshore wind electricity generation projects and at least £3 million to small-scale biomass heat/combined heat and power projects.

  New Opportunities Fund for Sport
  Mr. Wyatt
  To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, pursuant to her answer of 12 November 2001,Official Report, column 501W, what are the regional administration costs of establishing the new opportunities fund for sport; and what are the costs of the regional Sport England officers. [16772]

  Mr. Caborn
  The new opportunities fund is the body designated in the National Lottery Act 1998 to distribute lottery funds to initiatives concerned with health, education and the environment. They have a presence in the nine English regions which is responsible for the regional aspects of all 13 programmes. The representatives have been in place since September 2001, and are expected to cost £307,539 per year to maintain. Sport England has nine regional offices with running costs for 2000–01 of around £6,484,100.

  Sports Projects
  Mr. Greenway
  To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what role Sport England will play in the assessment of grant applications for school sports projects funded by the new opportunities fund. [17464]

  Mr. Caborn
  Grant applications for the New Opportunities for PE and sport programme will be assessed in two stages. At stage one, Sport England will provide support and advice to local organisations to help the development of strategies and portfolios of projects. These applications will then be assessed by the new opportunities for PE and sport committee for England, two of whose members are full board members of Sport England. The fund and Sport England are currently discussing how best Sport England can provide support at the second stage of the application process.

  Lottery Funding
  Miss McIntosh
  To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what is the level of lottery funding expected for competitive sport for(a) 2001–02 and (b) 2002–03; and what was the level in 1996–97. [17177]
  533W
  Mr. Caborn
  My Department's funding for competitive sport is provided through the lottery-funded world class programme, administered by the Sports Councils: UK Sport and Sport England.

  The Sports Councils expect to provide funding of over £50 million in 2001–02 to this programme and over £40 million has already been committed for the year 2002–03 with further awards anticipated. There was no lottery expenditure for the world class programme in 1996–97.

  Television Licence
  James Purnell
  To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport if she will announce the television licence fees that will come into force next year; and if she will make a statement. [18435]

  Dr. Howells
  On 21 February 2000, the Government announced their conclusions on the recommendations of the independent review panel on the future funding of the BBC. In addition to a range of measures designed to improve BBC efficiency and accountability, the Government introduced a new funding formula providing for changes in the licence fee of RPI plus 1.5 per cent. for each year from 2000–01 to 2006–07. This formula will enable the BBC to provide a strong and distinctive schedule of high quality programmes and remain at the forefront of broadcasting technology.

  Application of the RPI figure of 1.7 per cent. for the year to September 2001, plus 1.5 per cent., to the current unrounded licence fees produces new rounded totals of £112.00 for a colour licence and £37.50 for a black and white licence. The necessary regulations to bring these fees into force will be laid before the House in due course.

  Media Ownership
  James Purnell
  To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport when she will publish her proposals to reform the existing rules on media ownership. [18436]

  Tessa Jowell
  The consultation paper entitled "Consultation on Media Ownership Rules" will be published on Monday 26 November to help us determine the best way to regulate media ownership. There will be two months formal consultation ending on 25 January 2002. Copies will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses of Parliament and on Monday and will be available on the Department's website at www.culture.gov.uk. Having considered the responses, we will publish our proposals in the draft Communications Bill next year. There will then be a further, three-month period of consultation.

  Medically Therapeutic Activities
  Dr. Kumar
  To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport if she will list the joint initiatives and funds that are applied to the provision of leisure and sporting activities that are classed as medically therapeutic; and if she will make a statement. [17802]

  Mr. Caborn
  The Government fully accept that physical activity and sport has a range of benefits including better health and our plan for sport spells out 534W
  our policies and strategy for increasing participation among all sectors of the community, particularly the young.

  The young and active report, published in 1998, brought together the views of experts and evidence on health and physical activity and put forward a policy framework on the promotion of physical activity for young people. The report outlined the following beneficial health outcomes of physical activity, including;

  Reduced symptoms of depression and anxiety

  Enhanced self-esteem

  Controls blood pressure

  Controls weight.

  The plan for sport sets out the steps which the Government are taking to enhance opportunities and increase participation at school, in the community and at the highest levels of performance. Overall, it offers a comprehensive package of improvements to the sporting experience in this country. This is being achieved through co-operation between all Government Departments and agencies involved with promoting physical activity and health. The Department for Culture, Media and Sport is working closely with the Department of Health and other Departments to develop a cross-government approach.

  Since lottery funding began, Sport England has allocated £1.25 billion to over 3,350 sports projects.

  In addition, major funding has been allocated to improving sports facilities and sporting provision throughout England. This includes:
  £581 million of new opportunities fund (NOF) money to build and refurbish PE and sports facilities in schools in every local education authority in England. These facilities will be available to the wider community.
  The spaces for sport and the arts project—a joint initiative between DCMS, DIES, Sport England, Arts Council of England and the new opportunities fund. £130 million has been allocated to 65 local education authorities to develop new sports and arts facilities on primary school sites which will also be available for community use, with the emphasis on inclusion of currently under-represented groups. Around 300 projects across England will be funded under the scheme.
  A further £50 million NOF money will be made available to develop and refurbish outdoor activity and adventure facilities across England as part of an integrated scheme to develop young people through outdoor activities.

  Sports Action Zone (West Cumbria)
  Dr. Jack Cunningham
  To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what progress has been made by the sports action zone in West Cumbria; what targets have been reached; what new investment has taken place; what the projects involved are; and if he will make a statement. [16969]

  Mr. Caborn
  A needs assessment and action plan for the zone was approved by Sport England's lottery panel in October 2001. This provides the framework for action over the next five years and contains 28 tasks/projects to be delivered in year 1 which will improve health, education and employment prospects for communities in the districts of Allerdale, Barrow and Copeland.

  In addition sport action zone (SAZ) magnet funding of £99,313 has been awarded by Sport England to employ three "active living" posts in Barrow. These posts aim

  535W
  to promote and increase the amount of physical activity accessed by socially excluded groups and ensure that the community has a direct influence over the co-ordination and future planning of sport and activity in Barrow. They will work in partnership with Health Promotion in Barrow, Age Concern and the Barrow Sport Development team. The project will target groups such as young men, young women and middle aged to older adults, aiming to promote better health, preventive measures for chronic health conditions and reduce teenage pregnancies. Further partnership funding of £282,629 has been obtained to develop bids for the magnet fund. A further £282, 629 has been secured from funding organisations including: NW single regeneration budget; Youth Justice Board; Home Office; South Whitehaven single regeneration budget; neighbourhood renewal fund in Barrow; West Cumbria Council for Voluntary Service; sure start; youth works; Cumbria county council; health action zone; West Cumbria local health group; which has enabled an additional £136,813 to be accessed from the magnet fund.

  A sport for health manager has also been appointed for West Cumbria to promote the benefits of sport and physical activity on health to organisations such as local health groups and Age Concern. Projects that are being developed in partnership with health related organisations include promotion of the Walking for Health initiative to tourist boards, developing cardiac rehabilitation phase 4 centres and enhancing a GP referral scheme in Copeland.

  Other initiatives include the first rural youth works programme for 8 to 25-year-olds aimed at reducing crime in one of Copeland's worst affected areas, the development of a sport and physical activity directory for the zone, and the development of a programme of "speedway" taster sessions to encourage young people to have access to safe places to ride. A successful Home Office funded programme of summer activities for young people in Barrow took place this year involving partnership between Age Concern, the Barrow Youth Inclusion project and Barrow Amateur Swimming Club. A survey is currently taking place in Barrow to ascertain current sport/physical activity participation levels.

WORK AND PENSIONS

  Benefits Agency
  Mr. Cousins
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how much was spent on the services of each recruitment specialist engaged by the Benefits Agency in the last financial year. [15612]

  Mr. Nicholas Brown
  In the financial year 2000–01, the Benefits Agency spent a total of £34,962 on the services of one firm of recruitment specialists.

  Mr. Clappison
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many attacks on Benefits Agency staff have resulted in staff absence of(a) up to a week, (b) up to a month, (c) up to six months and (d) six months or more in each of the last five years. [14228]

  Mr. Nicholas Brown
  [holding answer 12 November]: The information requested is held on individual staff records but is not collated centrally.
  536W

  Appeals Service
  Mr. Willetts
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what proportion of cases dealt with by the appeals service had not been resolved after six months or more in each year since 1996–97. [9808]

  Maria Eagle
  The information is not available in the format requested.

  The appeals service is committed to a twin strategy of reducing waiting times and clearing the backlog of older cases that accrue. It has made a determined effort to tackle older cases based on its policy of "first in, first out". Wherever possible, cases are cleared at first hearing (current waiting times from receipt of the appeal in the appeal service to first hearing are 13.6 weeks).

  Non-State Pensions
  Mr. Willetts
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, pursuant to his answer of 19 July 2001,Official Report, column 414W, to the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field), how much was contributed to non-state pensions in each year between 1992 and 1998 adjusted in each case to 1997 price terms. [7916]

  Mr. McCartney
  The figures for all years from 1992 are set out in the table. The figures show that there has been sustained growth in contributions to non-state pensions. The figures suggest that the stable economy has created the right conditions to save, and that our policies to encourage higher levels of private saving are having a positive effect.

  Contributions to non-state pensions

  Year

  £ billion

  1992

  37.0

  1993

  41.0

  1994

  37.0

  1995

  38.0

  1996

  44.0

  1997

  50.0

  1998

  60.0

  1999

  65.0

  2000

  69.0

  Notes:

  1. All figures rounded to nearest £ billion. Figures for 1999 and 2000 are included to illustrate the continuing trend in saving.

  2. These totals differ slightly in some years from figures previously released. This reflects differences in the methodology used.

  Source:

  MQ5 Survey, ONS, adjusted to 1997 prices

  Capital Rules
  Mr. Willetts
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will estimate the level of the capital rules if they had been uprated in line with(a) prices and (b) earnings, since May 1997. [9812]

  Mr. McCartney
  The estimated levels of the capital rules if they had been uprated in line with(a) prices and (b) earnings since 1997 are shown in the table. The lower capital limit for the minimum income guarantee was doubled from £3,000 to £6,000 in April 2001. The upper limit of £8,000 was increased to £12,000 at the same time.
  537W

  Actual capital limits

  £

  Actual

  1997–98

  1998–99

  1999–2000

  2000–01

  2001–02

  IS/JSA/HB Lower Limit

  3,000

  3,000

  3,000

  3,000

  3,000

  IS Upper Limit

  8,000

  8,000

  8,000

  8,000

  8,000

  MIG Lower limits

  3,000

  3,000

  3,000

  3,000

  6,000

  MIG Upper limit

  8,000

  8,000

  8,000

  8,000

  12,000

  Social Fund (60 or over)

  1,000

  1,000

  1,000

  1,000

  1,000

  Social Fund (under 60)

  500

  500

  500

  500

  500

  HB/CTB upper limit

  16,000

  16,000

  16,000

  16,000

  16,000

  Rossi (equivalent price index used for benefit uprating)

  £

  Rossi

  1997–98

  1998–99

  1999–2000

  2000–01

  2001–02

  MIG/IS/HB Lower limits

  3,000

  3,072

  3,137

  3,187

  3,238

  MIG/IS Upper limit

  8,000

  8,192

  8,364

  8,498

  8,634

  Social Fund (60 or over)

  1,000

  1,024

  1,046

  1,062

  1,079

  Social Fund (under 60)

  500

  512

  523

  531

  540

  HB/CTB upper limit

  16,000

  16,384

  16,728

  16,996

  17,268

  Average earnings

  £

  Earnings

  1997–98

  1998–99

  1999–2000

  2000–01

  2001–02

  MIG/IS/HB Lower limits

  3,000

  3,120

  3,298

  3,450

  3,584

  MIG/IS Upper limit

  8,000

  8,320

  8,794

  9,199

  9,558

  Social Fund (60 or over)

  1,000

  1,040

  1,099

  1,150

  1,195

  Social Fund (under 60)

  500

  520

  550

  575

  597

  HB/CTB upper limit

  16,000

  16,640

  17,588

  18,398

  19,115

  Note:

  Social Fund Limits apply only to discretionary payments

  Benefits Agency (Medical Services)
  Mr. Webb
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, pursuant to his answer of 19 July 2001,Official Report, column 418W, on the Benefits Agency Medical Services, what contract targets have been laid down; and what his assessment is of the performance of SchlumbergerSema measured against these targets. [10468]

  Mr. Nicholas Brown
  The contract with SchlumbergerSema contains numerous targets relating to the volume, timeliness, and quality of medical reports; to customer service standards; and to training of doctors. The Government set four targets, relating to quality, training, and customer service, in their response [Cm 4780] to the Social Security Select Committee's report on medical services.

  SchlumbergerSema has restructured the management of medical services and performance against key targets is improving. Performance against all targets is kept under continual review.

  Housing Benefit
  Mr. Clappison
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what measures he is implementing to provide Benefits Agency staff with training in issues relating to housing benefit; and how he intends to improve the recovery of overpayments of housing benefit. [11259]

  Malcolm Wicks
  All new operational staff working on income support or income-based jobseeker's allowance receive housing benefit awareness training.
  538W
  In June 2000, in order to promote improved benefit administration in local authorities, the Benefit Fraud Inspectorate produced a good practice guide, a copy of which was issued to each local authority. This is based on tried and tested practice in better-performing authorities. The guide includes a section on overpayment recovery, covering the prevention and identification of overpayments as well as options for recovery.

  In June 2001 we introduced streamlined procedures for local authorities to recover housing benefit overpayments from prescribed social security benefits administered by the Benefits Agency. These procedures apply in cases where housing benefit is no longer in payment. Local authorities have been given guidance about the types of cases they should refer and new simplified referral forms have been introduced.

  The new procedures ensure that both the Benefits Agency and local authorities are operating standard referral and recovery procedures. They also provide tighter control of the recovery process and are being actively monitored to ensure their effectiveness.

  SEMA
  Ms Walley
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will place in the Library the revised contract with SEMA. [11905]

  Mr. Nicholas Brown
  Such sections of the contract, which are not commercially sensitive, are available in the Library.
  539W
  Later revisions contain commercially sensitive information and are not published.

  Consultation Documents
  Sandra Gidley
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many consultation documents were issued by his Department from(a) 15 October to 14 January, (b) 15 January to 14 April, (c) 15 April to 14 July and (d) 15 July to 14 October in each year from 1996. [12878]

  Mr. Nicholas Brown
  The available information is in the table.

  Date

  Number of consultation documents issued

  15 January to 14 April 2000

  1

  15 April to 14 July 2000

  1

  15 July to 14 October 2000

  4

  15 October 2000 to 14 January 2001

  3

  15 January to 14 April 2001

  1

  15 April to 14 July 2001

  0

  15 July to 14 October 2001

  8

  15 October 2001 to 14 January 20021

  2

  1 As at 22 November 2001

  Notes:

  1. The table includes consultation documents issued by the former Department of Social Security and the former Department for Education and Employment

  2. Further information on these consultation documents can be found at: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/index.htrn

  Information on consultation documents issued by the former Department of Social Security from 1996 to August 2000, and by the former Department for Education and Employment from 1996 to July 1997, could be provided only at disproportionate cost.

  Welfare Reform
  Mr. Frank Field
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will list the reports the Government have published since 1997 evaluating the effectiveness of the welfare reform programme. [13221]

  Mr. Nicholas Brown
  The information has been placed in the Library.

  Invalid Care Allowance
  Mr. Burstow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will estimate the cost of abolishing the overlapping benefits rule for those over pension age in the case of invalid care allowance. [13443]

  Maria Eagle
  I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Regent's Park and Kensington, North (Ms Buck) on 14 March 2001,Official Report, column 607W.

  Mr. Burstow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will estimate the cost, net of savings on means-tested benefits, of increasing the rate of invalid care allowance to the level of the basic state pension. [13442]

  Maria Eagle
  I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave to the hon. Member for Northavon (Mr. Webb) on 13 July 2001,Official Report, column 691W.
  540W

  Expenditure (Initiatives)
  Mr. Webb
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will list for(a) sure start and (b) employment zones (i) the amount budgeted and (ii) the total expended in each financial year for the planned lifetime of each initiative. [14038]

  Mr. Nicholas Brown
  The information on budgets and expenditure on sure start and employment zones was published in the Department for Education and Employment departmental report 2001–02 to 2003–04. A copy of this is in the Library. Sure start is now the responsibility of the Department for Education and Skills.

  New Deal
  Mr. Goodman
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will make a statement on(a) the number of participants in the new deal for young people from the Wycombe constituency in the last 12 months, (b) the destinations of people leaving the scheme and (c) the cost involved. [14867]

  Mr. Nicholas Brown
  The information as is available is in the tables. Estimates of the cost of the programme are not available at constituency level.

  New deal for young people participants in the Wycombe constituency

  Month

  Number

  August 2000

  113

  September 2000

  100

  October 2000

  93

  November 2000

  85

  December 2000

  88

  January 2001

  89

  February 2001

  81

  March 2001

  72

  April 2001

  68

  May 2001

  72

  June 2001

  69

  July 2001

  67

  August 2001

  70

  Note:

  Figures are for the end of each month and are the latest available

  Source:

  New Deal Evaluation Database

  Destination on leaving the new deal for young people

  Number of clients

  Unsubsidised employment

  201

  Other Benefits

  48

  Other known destinations

  88

  Not known

  185

  Total leavers

  522

  Note:

  Figures are cumulative to the end of August 2001

  Source:

  New Deal Evaluation Database

  Mr. Swire
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many people have entered the new deal gateway(a) once, (b) twice and (c) three times or more in east Devon in respect of the (i) new deal for young people, (ii) new deal for 25-plus, (iii) new deal for 50-plus and (iv) new deal for lone parents. [17265]
  541W
  Mr. Nicholas Brown
  For new deal for young People, there have been 368 starts on the programme in the East Devon constituency to the end of August 2001. Of these, 20 young people have entered twice and three young people have entered three or more times.

  For new deal for 25-plus, there have been 85 starts on the programme in the East Devon constituency to the end of August 2001. Of these, four people have entered twice and one person has entered three or more times.

  The new deal for lone parents and new deal for 50-plus do not have gateways.

  Source:

  New Deal Evaluation Database

  Mr. Swire
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many people on the new deal for young people in east Devon joined(a) the subsidised employment option, (b) the environmental task force option, (c) the voluntary sector option and (d) the full-time education or training option in each year since its inception. [17264]

  Mr. Nicholas Brown
  The information is in the table.

  Number of young people starting NDYP options in East Devon

  Year

  Subsidised employment

  Environment task force

  Voluntary sector

  Full-time education and training

  1998

  9

  3

  4

  12

  1999

  12

  8

  10

  24

  2000

  10

  8

  8

  9

  20011

  5

  2

  1

  3

  Total

  36

  21

  23

  48

  1 To end August

  Source:

  New Deal Evaluation Database

  Winter Fuel Allowance
  Andrew George
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what recent assessment he has made of the case to extend winter fuel allowance to those under pensionable age in receipt of(a) the medium or higher rate care component and (b) the higher rate mobility component of disability living allowance. [15866]

  Mr. McCartney
  Disability benefits are already available to people with disabilities in recognition of their extra costs. The care and mobility components in disability living allowance are used as broad indicators of all the extra costs a disabled person has. These could include heating, laundry or special diets. There are no plans to extend the winter fuel payment scheme to people under 60 years of age.

  Hearing Aids
  Tim Loughton
  To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (1) what estimate his Department has made of the number of(a) deaf and (b) hard of hearing people who have received funding for digital hearing aids under the access to work scheme; and what is the average cost of each digital hearing aid that has been purchased; [15682]

  (2) what cost-benefit evaluation his Department has made of the job retention benefits that would arise from (a) shorter waiting times for NHS hearing tests and the
  542W
  fitting of hearing aids, (b) higher quality hearing aids and (c) a reduction in the number of people who would benefit from wearing a hearing aid who do not have one. [15683]

  Maria Eagle
  [holding answer 16 November 2001]: The access to work programme provides practical advice and support to overcome work-related obstacles resulting from disability. Through access to work a grant can be provided towards any additional employment costs resulting from disability.

  Access to work provides funding towards the purchase of digital hearing aids where there is a work-related need for them. The number of applications or expenditure in relation to any specific aid or piece of equipment is not monitored. It is therefore not possible to provide estimates of the numbers helped by, or the average cost to access to work of digital hearing aids.

  The Department has not conducted a cost-benefit evaluation of job retention benefits in relation to the provision of hearing aids.

HOME DEPARTMENT

  Police Numbers (South Tyneside)
  Mr. Hepburn
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many police officers were in south Tyneside on 1 May(a) 1999, (b) 2000 and (c) 2001; and what the projected figures are for 1 May (i) 2002, and (i) 2003. [13212]

  Mr. Denham
  The information requested has been provided by the chief constable of Northumbria and is set out in the table.

  South Tyneside Area Command

  Year

  Actual officers in post

  1 May 1999

  246

  1 May 2000

  244

  1 May 2001

  257

  The force is unable to provide projected figures for south Tyneside for 2002 and 03.

  On 31 August this year, Northumbria police as a whole had 3,908 officers (full-time equivalent), 51 more than in March. The force has a budgeted work force target of 4,000 officers for 31 March 2002. Northumbria police also had 1,416 civilian staff in March 2001, 51 more than in March 1997.

  Salha Idris
  Mr. Letwin
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will make a statement on the links between Mr. Salha Idris and security firms providing equipment to Government sites. [13149]

  Mr. Denham
  [holding answer 8 November 2001]: I refer to the reply given in the other place by the Chairman of Committees, Lord Boston of Faversham, on 9 October 2000, Official Report, House of Lords, column WA], and the Lord Chancellor's reply on 3 May 2001, Official Report, House of Lords, column WA296. The position remains unchanged.
  543W
  It is vital that a high standard of security is maintained at Government premises. Protective security arrangements are of course the responsibility of the Secretary of State in each respective Government Department. They will, with the support of the police and security service, ensure that this is done.

  I also refer the hon. Member to the reply given by the Home Secretary on 1 November 2001, Official Report, column 847W.

  Translation Services
  Mr. Kidney
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what translation services he ensures are available to(a) prisons and (b) probation services in (i) England and (ii) Staffordshire; and what assessment he has made of the adequacy of the translation facilities available to the police. [13495]

  Beverley Hughes
  The Prison Service race relations policy highlights the importance of prisons being aware of the needs of non-English speaking prisoners. To assist in meeting those needs, all prisons were issued with copies of the prisoner information books (Male Prisoners and Young Offenders, Women Prisoners and Female Young Offenders, Visiting and Keeping in Touch and Life Sentenced Prisoners "Lifers"). The books were issued in partnership with the Prison Reform Trust and are available in 21 languages (including English). Updated versions are currently being considered.

  The appropriate translation services required for necessary communication with non-English-speaking prisoners is the responsibility of individual establishments. Each establishment has differing demands and needs for such services and establishments are advised to draw up and maintain details of local arrangements. The services are paid for locally.

  Following negotiations with the Immigration Service, all prison establishments have access to the register of interpreters. Several of these interpreters also provide translation services. The Immigration Service also has a contract with K International which the Prison Service may approach for written translations. There is a National Register of Public Service Interpreters, which maintains a consistent and adequate standard.

  Public documents produced by the National Probation Service (NPS) are translated into Welsh, and other languages as considered necessary. Some core materials (such as leaflets for offenders) are translated into the six languages where demand is greatest (Arabic, Chinese, Hindi, Punjabi, Spanish and Welsh). Design, print and translation services for the NPS headquarters are provided via the Home Office Communication Directorate (under contract with K International). Translation services for the operational needs of the Staffordshire area of the NPS come from established local suppliers and are paid for locally.

  Police

  There has not been any assessment made of the adequacy of the translation facilities available to the police. The requirement of providing translation services is a matter for individual forces in line with guidance issued under Code of Practice C of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984.
  544W

  Drugs
  Mr. Cox
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many reported cases of the use of illegal drugs there were in prisons in England and Wales in 2000. [13929]

  Beverley Hughes
  Between 1 January 2000 and 31 December 2000, 89,784 mandatory drug tests were conducted on prisoners, of which 17,415 tested positive for drugs. The figures include some prisoners who will have been tested more than once.

  Recidivism (Buckinghamshire)
  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will make a statement on recidivism rates for prisoners released from(a) HMP Grendon and (b) HMP Springhill in the Buckingham constituency in the last year for which figures are available; and how they compare with similar prisons. [14214]

  Beverley Hughes
  Grendon and Springhill prisons are co-located and Home Office reconviction rates for the two establishments are not recorded separately.

  The latest two-year reconviction rates for prisoners discharged from custody cover the calendar year 1997. The two-year reconviction rate for prisoners discharged from Grendon and Springhill prisons was 29 per cent. This compares with a predicted reconviction rate, based on factors which take account of the previous criminal history, age distribution, and offence of the prisoners discharged, of 32 per cent. For all prisoners, the two-year reconviction rate was 58 per cent.

  The findings from a seven-year reconviction study of prisoners who went to Grendon prison for therapy in the years 1984 to 1989 revealed that prisoners treated there had lower reconviction rates than had been expected had they not gone to Grendon. Further details of this research are contained in Home Office Research Findings Number 115, a copy of which is available in the Library.

  Kainos
  Mr. Rosindell
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will make a statement on Christian Kainos wings in HM Prisons. [14805]

  Beverley Hughes
  In May 1999, the trustees of the Christian organisation, Kainos, sought the Prison Service's agreement to its continuing the operation of Kainos communities in the wings of four prisons. This followed financial and other difficulties with a predecessor organisation, Kairos-Apac. The Prison Service management board agreed in September 1999 that these communities should be permitted to continue, without any commitment of public funds and for a limited period, while they were evaluated for their impact, and in particular their claim to contribute to reducing reoffending. The evaluation was to be done by independent researchers and paid for by Kainos. The board would reach a decision on the future of the programme in the light of the evaluation.

  The independent evaluation was completed in September 2001. The Kainos trustees provided the board with a copy of the evaluation report and asked the board to take an early decision on the future of the programme because Kainos' own funding for the programme ceased at the end of 2001.
  545W
  Among other matters, the evaluation examined the one year reconviction rates of prisoners who had been through the Kainos programme and a comparison group of nearly 14,000 prisoners with similar sentence lengths and from similar prisons. The evaluation report found that there was no basis for concluding that Kainos community prisoners have reconviction rates that are significantly lower than would be expected for similar released prisoners as a whole. This contrasts with other Prison Service programmes designed to reduce reoffending which typically show reductions of 10 per cent. in future reoffending against expected rates.

  In the light of this finding, the board decided that the Kainos community should no longer continue to operate in prisons when its present programmes came to an end. The board also had concerns about exposing prisoners to intensive religiously based interventions in prison by any faith group. The board has made it clear that it respects the commitment of the Kainos trustees, and of the staff and volunteers who gave their time to the programmes, but it is determined that effort and scarce resources in prisons are devoted only to offender treatment programmes which can demonstrate their effectiveness, and which contribute to the Government's crime reduction agenda.

  The evaluation report remains the property of the Kainos trustees. Kainos has given permission for the executive summary to be placed on the Home Office

  Table 1. Number of persons sentenced by courts in England and Wales to immediate custody for offences of (a) possessing and (b) supplying heroin, by sentencing, 1995–99

  Length of sentence

  1995

  1996

  1997

  1998

  1999

  Possession

  Up to and including one month

  147

  240

  335

  434

  509

  Over one month up to three months

  127

  252

  344

  561

  589

  Over three months up to six months

  113

  187

  266

  347

  383

  Over six months up to one year

  61

  89

  135

  194

  173

  Over one year up to two years

  19

  21

  29

  39

  45

  Over two years up to five years

  16

  25

  25

  39

  31

  Sub-total—up to five years

  483

  814

  1,134

  1,614

  1,730

  Over five years up to seven years

  3

  1

  2

  3

  2

  Over seven years

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Total

  486

  815

  1,136

  1,617

  1,732

  Supply

  Up to and including one month

  4

  2

  3

  2

  1

  Over one month up to three months

  8

  16

  14

  15

  14

  Over three months up to six months

  13

  17

  39

  39

  59

  Over six months up to one year

  25

  65

  75

  107

  127

  Over one year up to two years

  73

  95

  208

  371

  406

  Over two years up to five years

  224

  327

  722

  980

  1,427

  Sub-totalߞup to five years

  347

  522

  1,061

  1,514

  2,034

  Over five years up to seven years

  29

  66

  143

  107

  123

  Over seven years

  9

  21

  33

  34

  45

  Total

  385

  609

  1,237

  1,655

  2,202

  Source:

  Home Office Drugs and Alcohol Research Unit

  Cyclists
  Mr. Ben Chapman
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will give guidance to police forces that they should give greater priority to penalising cyclists riding on pavements. [16273]
  546W
  website and this is being done. I am also placing a copy in the Library.

  Asylum Seekers
  Mr. Allan
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what research is being undertaken into the compatibility of the proposed system of smart cards for asylum seekers with other smart card systems being developed in(a) the UK and (b) the EU. [16051]

  Angela Eagle
  The application registration cards will be compatible with standard readers and the micro-chip that will be used will be a standard serial chip.

  Heroin
  Mr. Cameron
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) how many people have been jailed for possession of heroin in each of the last five years; [16200]

  (2) how many people have been jailed for supplying heroin in each of the last five years, where the sentence has been less than five years. [16201]

  Beverley Hughes
  Information readily available on the number of persons sentenced by the courts in England and Wales to immediate custody for offences of (a) possessing and (b) supplying heroin for the period 1995–99 are given in table 1. This is the latest five-year period for which data are currently available. The numbers are broken down by sentence length.

  Mr. Denham
  The enforcement of cycling offences is an operational matter for individual chief officers of police. They are best placed to assess the nature and cause of specific local problems and to determine how most effectively to address them.
  547W
  Cycling on the pavement was made a fixed-penalty offence from 1 August 1999. This gives the police a direct and simple way of dealing with cyclists who use the pavement without proper consideration for others. During the five months to 31 December 1999, the police in England and Wales issued 570 fixed-penalty notices for the offence, 18 in Merseyside.

  The cycling infrastructure and environment are currently under improvement as a result of the Government's national cycling strategy. We expect this to reduce the perceived need on the part of some to cycle on the pavement through a fear of cycling on the road.

  Mr. Ben Chapman
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what plans he has to introduce proposals to increase the level of fines imposed on law-breaking cyclists. [16243]

  Mr. Denham
  I have no such plans. The current maximum penalty for dangerous cycling is a fine not exceeding £2,500. The maximum penalty for careless and inconsiderate cycling, and for cycling when unfit through drink or drugs, is a fine not exceeding £1,000. Unauthorised or irregular cycle racing or trials of speed on public ways is also an offence and carries a maximum penalty of £200. We believe that these penalties are sufficient and reflect the seriousness of the offences.

  Aylesbury Young Offenders Institution
  Mr. Lidington
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he expects work on C wing, Aylesbury young offenders institution to be completed. [16315]

  Beverley Hughes
  This work was unfortunately interrupted following the bankruptcy of the first contractor. Work restarted in August this year and is expected to be completed in May 2002.

  CCTV
  Ms Walley
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what representations he has received with regard to applications for CCTV in locations where property crime and drug offences are closely connected with street prostitution. [13776]

  Mr. Denham
  [holding answer 19 November 2001]: The information is not available in the format requested. However, under round 1 of the crime reduction programme closed circuit television (CCTV) initiative the Home Office has funded 120 CCTV schemes to combat property crime and/or drug offences. Crime reduction figures for these schemes, provided by crime and disorder reduction partnerships, estimate a reduction of 8,819 recorded burglaries and 1.914 recorded drugs offences over three years following their installation. It is not possible to say how many of these crimes might be linked with prostitution.

  The communities against drugs and reducing prostitution initiatives also work to combat property crime, drugs and prostitution. Under these initiatives funding can be used to install CCTV systems as well as other crime reduction measures.
  548W

  Special Constabulary
  Dr. Kumar
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) what plans he has to reappraise the role of the Special Constabulary; and how many special constables there are in Cleveland; [16442]

  (2) what plans he has to enable members of the Special Constabulary to receive increased remuneration. [16443]

  Mr. Denham
  [holding answer 20 November 2001]: The number of serving special constables in Cleveland police as at 31 March 2001 was 93.

  The Government are committed to increasing the special constabulary. While voluntary service to the community is a key element of the special constabulary, we are currently reviewing, as part of the police reform process, the allowances paid to special constables.

  We are also considering a number of other options for achieving radical improvements in the conditions of service and the management of special constables, to ensure that specials are deployed effectively and provide an increased visible presence in our communities.

  Warden Force
  Dr. Kumar
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) what plans he has to increase the powers conferred upon the warden force; and how these plans have changed since 11 September; [16438]

  (2) if he will make a statement on the relationship between wardens and the regular constabulary. [16440]

  Mr. Denham
  [holding answer 20 November 2001]: My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary made it clear in his speech to the Superintendents' Association on 11 September that we are considering how to make better use of the extended police family (including neighbourhood and street wardens) in support of the police; and whether new powers would be needed.

  We are developing proposals in the context of the police reform programme and details will be set out in the forthcoming White Paper.

  Suspicious Activity Reports
  Matthew Taylor
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, pursuant to his answer of 19 October 2001,Official Report, column 1398W, on suspicious activity reports, how many of the reports from the gambling industry were from (a) spread betting organisations and (b) other gambling businesses; and if he will make a statement. [16711]

  Mr. Bob Ainsworth
  The data held by the National Criminal Intelligence Service do not differentiate between spread betting organisations and other bookmakers. In 2000, there were 16 suspicious activity reports from the bookmaking industry and 301 such reports from the gaming industry.

  Police Complaints
  Dr. Kumar
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department when the pilot schemes for the new complaints system are expected to report their progress; and whether the four schemes are identical. [17125]
  549W
  Mr. Denham
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: The Police Complaints Authority is co-ordinating four research projects that will provide useful information on aspects of the new police complaints system. They will look at independent investigations, the right of appeal against a refusal by the police to record a complaint, the duty of the chief officer to provide the complainant with the outcome of an investigation and the presentation of cases to misconduct hearings by the Independent Police Complaints Commission. These are not formal pilots as they must operate within the current legislation and therefore are not able completely to replicate the provision proposed for the new system. The evaluation reports of each will be produced at different times but initial feedback is expected next spring.

  Dr. Kumar
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what role civilian investigators will have in the proposed independent police complaints system. [16879]

  Mr. Denham
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: As part of the new police complaints system, the Independent Police Complaints Commission will have a body of independent investigators at their disposal. These investigators will be made up of a mix of civilian investigators and seconded police officers. The commission will use these investigators in examining the most serious instances of alleged police misconduct.

  Dr. Kumar
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what progress has been made in the creation of a independent police complaints system. [16878]

  Mr. Denham
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: The Government will bring forward provisions to establish a new police complaints system to replace the current system as part of the Police Bill which is due for introduction later in this parliamentary Session. The new system will create a new body, the Independent Police Complaints Commission, which will replace the Police Complaints Authority.

  Suspects (Mental Illness)
  Mr. Steen
  To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what training is given for police officers to deal with suspects who suffer from mental illness. [16699]

  Mr. Denham
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: The basic training that all new recruits receive includes an element that raises awareness of mental illness and highlights the importance of communicating effectively and sensitively with people suffering from a mental disorder. Individual forces also provide further training for their officers on these issues. Details are not held centrally of all such local provision.

  More needs to be done to ensure an appropriate and properly informed police response to mentally ill individuals across the whole range of circumstances in which they deal with them. There are currently several strands of work focused on improving police practice in relation to suspects who suffer from mental illness. The Home Office, the Department of Health and the Association of Chief Police Officers are considering the development of national protocols covering the interaction between the police and health services in dealing with the mentally ill. The current review of the police codes of practice under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984
  550W
  is seeking to strengthen further protections for mentally ill detainees, particularly in terms of assessing their vulnerabilities and fitness for interview. In addition, the review of the Mental Health Act which is under way is looking to increase the emphasis on using hospitals rather than police stations as places of safety for assessing mental condition.

LORD CHANCELLOR'S DEPARTMENT

  Cycle Loans
  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department what the cost in 2001–02 is of her Department's(a) interest-free loans for cycles and cycling equipment and (b) cycle mileage rates. [14925]

  Ms Rosie Winterton
  The Department has, so far this financial year, paid a total of £1,132.50 to six members of staff in respect of cycle loans. The pedal cycle allowance in the Lord Chancellor's Department (including the Court Service and the Public Guardianship Office) is currently 12p per mile.

  Touch Screen Kiosk Service
  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department what the cost in 2001–02 is of the touch screen kiosk service to be implemented in Shropshire. [14981]

  Mr. Wills
  The kiosk in Telford, Shropshire—which provides information about the Court Service—is a partnership venture between the courts, the local council, the library and the university of Wolverhampton. The equipment is provided by the council's IT supplier and the content supplied by the Court Service's in-house web publishing team. There is therefore no additional cost to the Court Service.

  E-mails
  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department what the cost in 2001–02 is of the facility which enables e-mail applications to be made to Preston county court. [14980]

  Mr. Wills
  The cost of the Preston e-mail application service in 2001–02 is nominal as the initial outlay for equipment and installation was met in 2000–01. In 2000–01 the costs were £72,495, of which £65,243 were the costs of the computers and the e-mail connection; the balance related to various project related costs.

  The on-going running costs of this project include line charges for the e-mail modem, and staff and project management costs which are included in the court's overall running costs. The e-mail service allows the court to process applications by solicitors more efficiently than the paper based service, and therefore is delivering some efficiency savings, although these have yet to be quantified.

  Video Conferencing
  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department what the cost is in 2001–02 of
  551W
  the video conferencing project linking the Royal Courts of Justice with (a) Leeds Combined Court Centre and (b) Cardiff county court. [15029]

  Mr. Wills
  The cost of the project in 2001–02 of the video conferencing project linking the Royal Courts of Justice with Leeds Combined Court Centre and Cardiff county court is nominal, as the initial outlay for equipment and installation was met in 2000. The cost of line rental for ISDN lines for the three sites is £3,700 annually. The call costs are met by the party who requested the conference.

  Online Claims Issues
  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department what the cost in 2001–02 of the pilot scheme is for the online issue of claims. [14978]

  Mr. Wills
  The pilot project Money Claims Online is part of the Court Service's wider Courts and Tribunals Modernisation Programme. The one-off project costs are:

  £1,841,000 for design and development;

  £206,170 for project costs

  making a total of £2,047,170.

  A yearly service charge of £885,000, will also apply.

  The project has been delivered by the Court Service's existing PFI supplier, EDS Ltd., and links into existing systems for case management and document production at the Court Service's Bulk Centre in Northampton. Operational staffing costs to support the pilot project are approximately £48,000.

  Electronic issue of claims (by computer media exchange) has functioned at the Bulk Centre for some years, with considerable efficiency gains for the Court Service. This pilot project aims to widen the scope for inclusion to all claims issuers. It will also contribute to the Government's plan for all services to be available electronically by 2005.

  Public Service Agreements
  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department if he will make a statement on progress in meeting the Public Service Agreement target for 2002 for the proportion of service delivery transactions provided to the public electronically. [14987]

  Mr. Wills
  The Comprehensive Spending Review (CSR) in 1998 required the Lord Chancellor to set a target by 31 March 1999 for an increase in the proportion of service delivery transactions provided to the public electronically. We published our initial e-business strategy in November 2000 and set an annual target that was the equivalent to the government-wide target for electronic service delivery at that time. The CSR target was that 25 per cent. of service delivery transactions should be capable of being delivered electronically by 2002.

  After the conclusion of Spending Review 2000, the original electronic delivery target was updated and published in July 2000 as part of the LCD Service Delivery Agreement (SDA), containing specific Electronic Government SDA targets.
  552W
  The departmental e-business strategy was updated this summer. We have a full programme of e-business projects for achieving the government's target that by 2005 all appropriate services should be available electronically. Our programme envisages that around 50 per cent. of services will be available electronically by 2002 and currently we are on course to achieve that.

  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department if he will make a statement on progress in achieving the Land Registry's Public Service Agreement target of a 6 per cent. return on capital employed. [14891]

  Mr. Wills
  The Land Registry is a separate Government Department that became an executive agency in 1990. On 1 April 1993, it achieved trading fund status.

  The Land Registry's key financial performance target since becoming a trading fund has been to achieve a ministerially agreed percentage return on average capital employed in each financial year. Since 1999–2000, that target has been set at 6 per cent. and in 1999–2000 the Department achieved 12 per cent.

  The Land Registry expects to meet the annual 6 per cent. target for 2001–02.

  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department what the Public Service Agreement target was in 2000–01 for the number of lay magistrates(a) appointed and (b) recommended for appointment against estimated need; and if it was met. [14983]

  Mr. Wills
  There is no public service agreement target on judicial appointments. However, there is a service delivery objective of ensuring that 95 per cent. of the target number of lay magistrates are in post by 2003. The national strategy for the recruitment of lay magistrates should help to achieve that objective.

  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department if she will make a statement on progress towards meeting the Public Service Agreement target for the improvement of the rights of dependants by 31 March 2002. [15004]

  Ms Rosie Winterton
  An interdepartmental working group identified four possible measures to go into a basket of indicators on which targets were to be set by 31 March 2001. The measures proposed for the basket were:the number of prisons which, in accordance with Prison Service standard audit requirements, have sufficient staff to ensure that all prisoners receive information about legal aid on reception and know who can assist them with legal aid applications.;
  ensure that by 31 March 2002 a percentage of people in police stations requesting the service of a duty solicitor receive the service within a specified time;
  The number of substantial complaints under the Police Act 1996 per [1,000] people detained (BVPI 140); and
  The incidence and nature of successful challenges under Articles 5 and 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998 in respect of criminal cases.

  Two targets were set:
  98 per cent. of prisons to have sufficient staff to ensure that all prisoners receive information about legal services on reception and know who can assist with their applications for public funding; and
  90 per cent. of people in police stations requesting the services of a duty solicitor receive the service within 45 minutes.
  553W
  It was not possible to set meaningful targets for the other two measures. There was insufficient data available to set a target on the Human Rights Act; and there have been difficulties in setting an overall national target for the police complaints measure due to inconsistent targets set at local level.

  The Prison Service target has already been met, achieving 98 per cent. The data for the Duty Solicitor target from the Legal Services Commission will not become available until soon after 31 March 2002, so there will be a short delay in reporting on that target.

  The Working Group is currently seeking to identify other measures to go into the basket of indicators.

  Asset Sales
  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department if she will provide a detailed breakdown of the accruals to public funds in(a) 1999–2000 and (b) 2000–01 from the sale of fixed assets. [14918]

  Ms Rosie Winterton
  The Lord Chancellor's Department 1999–2000 resource accounts record a loss on disposal of fixed assets of £473,000. The draft 2000–01 resource accounts show a profit on disposal of £398,000. The 2000–01 accounts are still subject to audit. Details of the assets held by the Department, its agencies and associate public bodies, including significant recent disposals and future disposals strategy, can be found in the National Asset Register published by HM Treasury.

  Community Legal Service
  Dr. Kumar
  To ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department how many people have accessed the Community Legal Service website since its creation; and on what issues people most frequently seek advice. [16445]

  Ms Rosie Winterton
  There have been over 700,000 "page impressions"—the closest proxy for number of users—of the Community Legal Service website, Just Ask!, since its launch in April 2000. Usage of the site has doubled from a weekly average "page impression" rate of 6,000 at inception to over 12,000 at present.

  Issues that people have most frequently sought advice on are employment, family matters, housing, consumer affairs, and immigration.

  Freedom of Information
  Tony Wright
  To ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department what representations he has received from the Information Commissioner on a recommended timetable for implementing the Freedom of Information Act 2000. [16387]

  Mr. Wills
  My noble and learned Friend the Lord Chancellor invited the Information Commissioner to express her views on a timetable for the implementation of the Act, based on the practical implications for her office. She said that it would be sensible to implement the publication scheme and right of access provisions together on a phased timetable, largely following the structure of Schedule 1 to the Act. She also made it clear that it was for Government to decide on a timetable for implementation.
  554W
  The Government reached the view that it was right to implement the publication scheme provisions of the Act first as set out in the Schedule I have placed in the Library of the House.

  The Information Commissioner has welcomed the announcement of a firm timetable for the implementation of the Act.

  Libra Project
  Matthew Taylor
  To ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department, pursuant to his answer of 12 November 2001,Official Report, column 7521W, on the Libra project, how many MCCs with office automation have retained separate stand-alone terminals to provide access to the legacy systems. [16716]

  Mr. Wills
  All MCCs in receipt of the Libra Office Automation service have retained one or more standalone terminals.

  Matthew Taylor
  To ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department, pursuant to his answer of 12 November 2001,Official Report, column 564W, on the Libra project, if stand-alone terminals will be retained for access for specific local systems where that access was not available on the legacy network, and is not currently available on Libra service. [16731]

  Mr. Wills
  In all of the Magistrates' Court Committees in receipt of the Libra Office Automation service, access to the main legacy system is achieved, for almost all staff, via the Libra terminal on their desks. In some cases separate stand-alone terminals have been retained to provide access for specific local systems where that access was not available on the legacy network, and is not currently available on the Libra service. This mixture of access is replicated in all MCCs. It is envisaged that the need for access to systems via stand-alone terminals will progressively diminish during the planned transition to the full new Libra service.

  Selim Ferhan Onal
  Angus Robertson
  To ask the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department when she expects her adjudicators to decide on the appeal for entry clearance by Selim Ferhan Onal. [17717]

  Ms Rosie Winterton
  The Immigration Appellate Authority has no record of receiving an appeal from the Home Office for Selim Ferhan Onal.

TRADE AND INDUSTRY

  Climate Change Levy
  Chris Grayling
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry in what circumstances a butcher's shop could be liable for payments under the climate change levy. [12746]

  Mr. Wilson
  The climate change levy aims to increase energy efficiency across all sectors of business, including small food retailers, and will help the UK to meet its commitments to reduce greenhouse emissions, including our Kyoto target. Those small businesses, including butchers' shops, which have very low energy
  555W
  consumption below the minimum thresholds as defined in the Finance Act 2000 are not liable to pay the climate change levy.

  Businesses with energy use higher than the thresholds will be liable to pay the levy. However any such businesses can minimise their levy bills by buying levy-exempt, green electricity, for example from new renewable sources; by taking advantage of energy efficiency advice and support from the new Carbon Trust, which aims to take account of the needs of small businesses; or by investing, using the new scheme of enhanced capital allowances for energy efficiency improvements (which covers items including refrigeration equipment).

  Small Businesses (Chorley)
  Mr. Hoyle
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry how much funding has been made available to start small businesses in Chorley in each of the last five years. [12990]

  Nigel Griffiths
  £100,000 has been made available to start small businesses in Chorley in the last five years, £20,000 per year.

  Languages for Exports Awards
  Mr. Lazarowicz
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry how many entrants there were in the 2001 competition for Languages for Exports Awards, broken down by(a) nation and (b) region. [13168]

  Nigel Griffiths
  Applications received for this year's competition are as follows:

  Regions

  Applications received

  English:

  East

  12

  East Midlands

  14

  London and South East

  41

  North East

  17

  North West

  11

  Yorkshire and Humber

  10

  West Midlands

  15

  South West

  8

  Scotland

  11

  Wales

  10

  Northern Ireland

  9

  Total

  158

  Scottish Trade Delegations
  Mr. Lazarowicz
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry for how many trade delegations from Scotland to(a) the Czech Republic, (b) Poland, (c) Hungary, (d) Slovenia, (e) Estonia, (f) Lithuania, (g) Latvia and (h) Slovakia her Department provided support in (i) 2000 and (ii) 2001 to date. [13169]

  Nigel Griffiths
  I am replying on the basis of information provided by Scottish Development International, a joint venture between the Scottish Executive and Scottish Enterprise.
  556W
  Trade Partners UK services in Scotland are delivered by the Trade Division of Scottish Development International. It, along with other members of the export support network in Scotland, organises overseas trade missions.

  In June 2000 there was one trade mission to Hungary and Slovenia led jointly by Export Partnership Forth Valley and Lanarkshire Export Partnership. In 2001 to date there have been two visits to Poland, one in April led by Export Partnership Forth Valley and a sector based mission in June concentrating on food and drink led jointly by Scottish Development International and the Seafood Industry Authority. A visit to Estonia took place in September supported by Renfrewshire and Inverclyde Exports followed by a further mission to Slovenia in October led by Lanarkshire Export Partnership.

  In addition, a delegation of Scottish business people interested in developing links with the Czech Republic accompanied the Scottish Minister for Finance during his visit there this September when he formally launched the second twinning covenant for Preparation for Structural Funds.

  Companies based in Scotland are also able to take part in any other UK supported trade missions.

  Fur Imports
  Harry Cohen
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what quantities of material classified as other fur were imported into the UK from(a) China, (b) the Philippines, (c) Korea and (d) Hong Kong in the last five years. [13799]

  Nigel Griffiths
  Information on UK imports of "other fur" from China, the Philippines, Korea and Hong Kong in each of the last five years is given in the table:

  UK imports of "other fur"1 from China, Philippines, Korea and Hong Kong

  Weight—kilograms

  Year

  China

  Philippines

  South Korea

  Hong Kong

  1996

  13,666

  0

  812

  7,727

  1997

  3,348

  0

  1,560

  12,871

  1998

  1,776

  0

  0

  3,808

  1999

  4,010

  0

  411

  5,240

  2000

  11,785

  0

  0

  10,063

  1"Other fur" is defined as headings 212.29 and 613.19 of the Standard International Trade Classification, Revision 3 (SITC Rev. 3)

  Definitions:

  SITC 212.29 Other furskins (raw), whole, with or without head, tail or paws

  SITC 613.19 Other furskins (tanned or dressed), whole, with or without head tail or paws, not assembled

  Source:

  DTI analysis of data from HM Customs and Excise

  Harry Cohen
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what the average value is of material classified as(a) other fur and (b) all fur imported into the UK from (i) all countries and (ii) China in the last three years. [13797]

  Nigel Griffiths
  Information on the average value of UK imports of "other fur" and all fur from all countries and China in each of the last three years is given in the table.
  557W

  Average value of UK imports of "other fur"1 and all fur2 from all countries and China

  £per kilogram

  All countries

  China

  UK imports of "other fur"

  1998

  29

  76

  1999

  19

  36

  2000

  14

  69

  UK imports of all fur

  1998

  77

  79

  1999

  42

  51

  2000

  38

  60

  1"Other fur" is defined as headings 212.29 and 613.19 of the Standard International Trade Classification, Revision 3 (SITC Rev 3).

  2 All fur is defined as headings 212 and 613 of the Standard International Trade Classification, Revision 3 (SITC Rev 3).

  Definitions:

  1. SITC 212 Furskins, raw (including heads, tails, paws and other pieces or cuttings, suitable for furriers' use), other than hides and skins of group 211.

  UK imports of made-up garments containing fur 1996–2000

  Weight (kilograms)

  Commodity 43031010

  Commodity 43031090

  Commodity 43039000

  Country

  1998

  1999

  2000

  1996

  1997

  1998

  1999

  2000

  1996

  1997

  1998

  1999

  2000

  Abu Dhabi

  —

  —

  —

  35

  —

  —

  —

  —

  25

  12

  —

  —

  —

  Argentina

  —

  —

  —

  2,977

  —

  —

  —

  —

  308

  467

  145

  —

  —

  Australia

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  305

  638

  —

  Austria

  —

  —

  —

  —

  60

  —

  1

  63

  20,277

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Belgium

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  3

  —

  —

  —

  15

  2,524

  Belgium-Luxembourg

  —

  —

  —

  —

  80

  —

  —

  —

  16

  33

  110

  —

  —

  Brazil

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  480

  —

  —

  2,099

  Bulgaria

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  9

  21

  —

  —

  —

  Burma

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  10,500

  —

  —

  —

  Cameroon

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  10

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Canada

  —

  —

  —

  76

  2

  —

  7

  —

  2

  55

  10

  12

  6

  Chile

  —

  —

  —

  250

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  265

  —

  China

  —

  —

  —

  963

  2,300

  4,130

  75

  95

  12,349

  10,798

  11,323

  9,058

  7,268

  Cyprus

  —

  —

  —

  4

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Czech Republic

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  21

  —

  Denmark

  —

  —

  —

  —

  3

  102

  296

  535

  31

  25

  —

  —

  —

  Ecuador

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  0

  40

  —

  527

  Ethiopia

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  934

  1,365

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Finland

  —

  —

  —

  —

  4

  5,101

  117

  1,484

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  France

  12

  —

  —

  270

  399

  350

  92

  866

  257

  21,955

  4.406

  56

  384

  Germany

  62

  10

  —

  1,474

  2,723

  3,735

  2,010

  3,763

  16,776

  44,568

  5,769

  19,606

  31,565

  Greece

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  1

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Hong Kong

  —

  —

  4,884

  576

  2,642

  8,672

  5,665

  3,732

  9.009

  7,059

  6,976

  4.429

  —

  Hungary

  —

  —

  230

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  47

  —

  317

  —

  India

  —

  —

  —

  250

  —

  —

  —

  150

  513

  —

  175

  467

  —

  Indonesia

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  210

  1,127

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Irish Republic

  —

  —

  6

  11

  16

  6

  —

  —

  —

  14

  5

  —

  —

  Italy

  14

  10

  346

  5,091

  2,002

  2,488

  7,521

  177

  1,716

  242

  721

  67.585

  —

  Japan

  —

  —

  1,026

  —

  —

  56

  —

  0

  20

  34

  10

  112

  —

  Lebanon

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  362

  —

  Lithuania

  —

  —

  —

  —

  2,759

  —

  49

  —

  —

  365

  3,363

  1.040

  —

  Luxembourg

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  6

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Malta

  —.

  —

  205

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Morocco

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  20

  —

  Netherlands

  —

  1

  101

  403

  42

  343

  269

  632

  17,725

  54

  409

  329

  —

  New Zealand

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  90

  51

  —

  —

  485

  8,054

  —

  Norway

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  17

  —

  —

  240

  —

  Pakistan

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  814

  0

  400

  —

  340

  —

  —

  Peru

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  27

  0

  599

  1,368

  696

  —

  Philippines

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  4,231

  4,202

  13,508

  4,449

  1,608

  —

  Poland

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  39

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Portugal

  —

  —

  —

  192

  —

  1

  —

  30

  55

  26

  —

  —

  —

  Romania

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  474

  609

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Russia

  —

  —

  —

  —

  167

  183

  6,106

  161

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  San Marino

  —

  —

  —

  35

  —

  —

  68

  —

  —

  —

  1,285

  —

  —

  South Africa

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  900

  —

  South Korea

  —

  —

  3,215

  100

  40,300

  —

  236

  9,554

  11,464

  8,496

  265

  2,137

  —

  558W
  2. SITC 613 Furskins, tanned or dressed (including heads, tails, paws and other pieces or cuttings), unassembled, or assembled (without the addition of other materials), other than those of heading 848.3.

  3. SITC 212.29 Other furskins (raw), whole, with or without head, talk or paws.

  4. SITC 613.19 Other furskins (tanned or dressed), whole, with or without head tail or paws, not assembled.

  Source:

  DTI analysis of data from H. M. Customs and Excise

  Harry Cohen
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what quantities of fur have been imported into the United Kingdom as parts of made-up garments for the last five years; and if she will list(a) the exporting countries involved and (b) the type of fur involved. [13792]

  Nigel Griffiths
  Information on UK imports of made-up garments containing fur in each of the last five years is given in the following table:
  559W

  UK imports of made-up garments containing fur 1996–2000

  Weight (kilograms)

  Commodity 43031010

  Commodity 43031090

  Commodity 43039000

  Country

  1998

  1999

  2000

  1996

  1997

  1998

  1999

  2000

  1996

  1997

  1998

  1999

  2000

  Spain

  —

  —

  1,191

  658

  992

  648

  393

  1213

  5,113

  2,161

  6,929

  3,120

  —

  Sweden

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  4,248

  1

  1

  17,205

  120

  —

  —

  525

  Switzerland

  —

  —

  —

  42

  13

  90

  29

  133

  58

  516

  102

  20

  —

  Taiwan

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  833

  1,051

  50

  —

  —

  Thailand

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  118

  —

  —

  Turkey

  —

  —

  —

  208

  —

  140

  23

  —

  4,505

  4,734

  630

  417

  965

  Ukraine

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  38

  Uruguay

  —

  —

  —

  0

  597

  —

  —

  504

  0

  37

  700

  1,410

  112

  USA

  —

  —

  —

  1,249

  948

  968

  1,170

  734

  1

  4,096

  768

  733

  708

  Zimbabwe

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  102

  203

  Note:

  Made-up garments containing fur consist of

  Commodity code 43031010—articles of apparel of furskins of whitecoat pups of harp seal or of pups of hooded seal (blue-backs)

  Commodity code 43031090—articles of apparel and clothing accessories of sheep or lambskin other

  Commodity code 43039000—other furskin articles other than clothing accessories

  There was no trade in commodity code 43031010 for the years 1996–97

  Source:

  DTI analysis of data from HM Customs and Excise

  Harry Cohen
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what quantities of domestic(a) dog and (b) cat fur have been imported into the UK over the last five years. [13806]

  Nigel Griffiths
  The information requested is not available because the system of classification used to record trade does not separately identify cat and dog fur.

  Harry Cohen
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if she will ban the trade in domestic(a) dog and (b) cat fur. [13798]

  Nigel Griffiths
  Bans on trade in goods such as dog and cat fur are a matter of exclusive European Community competence and the UK cannot act unilaterally.

  European Charter for Small Enterprises
  Brian Cotter
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what progress has been made in implementing the principles behind the European Charter for Small Enterprises in the United Kingdom. [13682]

  Nigel Griffiths
  The UK is firmly committed to a full implementation of the European Charter for Small Enterprises. We believe that since its adoption in June 2000 useful progress has been made in the United Kingdom under all 10 lines for action contained in the charter. Recent examples include proposals for the revision of company law, proposals for the reform of competition rules and insolvency law, continuing action under the UK online for business initiative, and the opening of the 'smallbusinesseurope' office in Brussels. Details of these and many other relevant UK actions can be found in a recent report provided to the European Commission, entitled "The European Charter for Small Enterprises—A Review of relevant actions and measures in force in the United Kingdom". Copies of this report have been placed in the Library of the House. At a wider European level, the UK co-organised with the European Commission a conference on top-class business support services in Cardiff in October.

  While we believe that real progress has been made in some areas, we recognise that more needs to be done if we are to meet our own and the EU's goals for creating
  560W
  the best possible environment for small firms. We will continue therefore to take action which will help us and encourage our European partners to achieve these goals.

  Brian Cotter
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what assessment she has made of the principle embodied in the European Charter for Small Enterprises relating to the exemption of small enterprises from certain regulatory obligations. [13683]

  Nigel Griffiths
  The Government agree with the principle embodied in the European Charter for Small Enterprises that legislative simplification can help reduce the burden of compliance for small business. In the UK the approach has been to adopt "Think Small First" principles—all those considering regulation must first consider alternatives to regulation as well as whether exemptions for small firms are appropriate, the case for exemptions for small firms from regulatory obligations is then made on a case by case basis.

  Exemptions for small enterprises from certain regulatory obligations can be a useful way of reducing burdens on business e.g. on audit thresholds, the requirement to consult on redundancies, the need to have works councils and most recently the draft Information and Consultation Directive. There are a range of regulations, such as those relating to food safety, the national minimum wage, environmental protection and health and safety where this is less likely to be appropriate (because of the need to safeguard the rights of employees and protect consumers) and may in fact create a barrier to growth for small firms.

  Export Licences (Israel)
  Mr. Galloway
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry how many standard individual export licences have been issued for exports to Israel during(a) May, (b) June, (c) July, (d) August, (e) September and (f) October; and if she will make a statement. [13670]

  Nigel Griffiths
  The number of Standard Individual Export Licences (SIELs) issued to end users in Israel was as follows.
  561W

  Month

  Number

  May

  0

  June

  0

  July

  81

  August

  17

  September

  16

  October

  25

  All export licence applications to Israel continue to be considered against the consolidated EU and National Arms Export Licensing Criteria in light of the circumstances prevailing at the time of the application. This means inter alia we will not issue licences where there is a clear risk that the equipment might be used for internal repression, international aggression, adversely affect regional stability or prolong internal conflict.

  Ministerial Visit (China and Japan)
  Llew Smith
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if she will list the people met by the Energy Minister on his recent visit to China and Japan; and if she will place in the Library copies of documents made available to the Minister's hosts by her Department during the trip. [14258]

  Mr. Wilson
  The information is as follows:

  BEIJING

  State Development and Planning Commission (SDPC), Vice Chairman Mr. Wang Chunzheng

  President, AVIC: Mr. Liu Gaozhuo

  Vice President, AVIC 2: Mr. Liang Zhenhe

  Minister, CAAC: Mr. Liu Jianfeng

  Director General, Foreign Capital Utilization Department: Mr. Mu Hong

  Director General, Foreign Affairs Department: Mr. Xu Tongmao

  President, BP Amoco China: Dr. Gary Dirks

  LNG Technical Manager, Shell Gas and Power: Mr. Nizoo Visram

  Chief Executive, Rolls-Royce: Mr. John Rose

  Vice Minister, State Economic and Trade Commission: Mr. Zhang Zhigang

  President and CEO, China National Petroleum Corporation: Mr. Ma Fucai

  Chairman and CEO, China National Offshore Oil Corporation: Mr. Wei Liucheng

  President and CEO, China National Chemicals Import and Export Corporation: Mr. Liu Deshu

  President, China Petroleum and Chemical Corporation: Mr. Li Yishong

  Ambassador's Dinner

  Chief Representative, BNFL Westinghouse: Mr. Gavin Liu

  XRJ Consulting (Advisers to International Power) Mr. Ian Stones

  PR Manager, China, British Airways: Mr. Peter Liver

  General Manager, China, Virgin Atlantic: Mr. Jonathan Harding

  Deputy Director-General of the International Co-operation Department, State Economic Trade Commission

  Deputy Head, China Britain Natural Gas Working Group: Mr. Wang Shanchuan

  Deputy Director-General Foreign Affairs, PetroChina: Mr. Bao Qiping

  562W
  SHANGHAI

  Vice Mayor Han Zheng, Shanghai Municipal Peoples' Government

  Chairman, China Eastern Airlines: Mr. Ye Yi Ghan

  Director, Shanghai Airlines; Zhou Chi

  CEO East China Gas and Power, BP China Ltd.: Mr. Alistair Ferguson

  Deputy Project Director, Shanghai Ethylene Cracker Complex (SECCO), BP South East Asia Ltd.: Mr. Tony Atkins

  JAPAN

  Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry

  Mr. Yoshihisa Ohshima, Senior Vice-Minister of Economy. Trade and Industry

  Mr. Hirobumi Kawano, Director General, Agency for Natural Resources and Energy

  Ministry of the Environment

  Ms Yoriko Kawaguchi, Minister of the Environment

  Mr. Kenji Kamiigawara, Private Secretary to the Minister

  Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport, Civil Aviation Bureau

  Mr. Kenichi Fukaya, Director General

  Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO)

  Mr. Nobuya Minami, President

  Mr. Ryoichi Shirato, Vice-President

  The Kansai Electric Power Company Inc.

  Mr. Yohsaku Fuji, President

  Mr. Tetsuji Kishida, Managing Director

  Japan Airlines Co Ltd.

  Mr. Katsuo Haneda, Senior Vice President

  All Nippon Airways Co Ltd.

  Mr. Hiromechi Toya, Executive Vice President

  Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd.

  Mr. Yasutada Sasaki, Senior Manager, civil Aircraft and Aeroengine Department

  Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd.

  Mr. Fumitake Kadowaki, Vice President, Gas Turbine and Machinery Company

  Ishikawajima-Harima Heavy Industries Ltd.

  Mr. Teiichi Tamaki, Board Director and Vice-President of Aeroengine and Space Operations

  Airbus Japan KK

  Mr. Patrick Caroll, OBE, President

  Rolls-Royce International Ltd.

  Mr. Bob Moore, Regional Director, Japan

  Other junior representatives of public and private sector organisations in the energy and aerospace sectors (at a dinner and luncheon hosted by Her Majesty's Ambassador).

  No documents were made available to the Minister's hosts by the Department during the trip.

  Regional Venture Capital Funds
  Mr. Rosindell
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what response her Department has made to points raised by the Commission regarding United Kingdom practice in regional venture capital funds in Com 2001/712 EC. [14797]

  Nigel Griffiths
  Corn 2001/712 EC was the document issued by the European Commission granting State Aid clearance to the Regional Venture Capital Fund programme. It was not necessary for the UK Government to respond to the document.
  563W
  In common with any programme of this kind, the Regional Venture Capital Funds had to be approved by the European Commission under State Aid guidelines. DTI and SBS officials have worked together with EU officials to enable the European Commission to grant this approval.

  Atomic Energy Police Force
  Mr. Hoyle
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry how many and what makes of vehicles are operated by the Atomic Energy police force; and what is the purchasing policy on UK-built vehicles by the Atomic Energy police. [15161]

  Mr. Wilson
  The United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority Constabulary (UKAEAC) currently operates 46 vehicles consisting of 22 Ford, seven Landrover, six Vauxhall, five LDV, three Volkswagen, two Mitsubishi and one Peugeot. The UKAEAC's policy is to buy the correct vehicles for its operational needs, with the option for purchasing UK-built vehicles when this is consistent with securing value for money.

  Nuclear Industry
  Llew Smith
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what proportion of BNFL's liabilities for(a) radioactive waste and (b) decommissioning is attributed to THORP; and what proportion of the decommissioning costs estimated for THORP will be covered by overseas baseload contracts. [15851]

  Mr. Wilson
  In accordance with standard accounting practice, information about BNFL's liabilities and provisioning are included in the company's annual report and accounts. The details of BNFL's contracts with overseas THORP baseload reprocessing customers are a commercial matter for BNFL and its customers under Exemption 13 of the Code of Practice on Access to Government Information.

  Miners' Pension Schemes
  Adam Price
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what sums the Government have obtained annually as guarantors from surplus arising from the(a) mineworkers' pension scheme and (b) British Coal staff superannuation scheme since 1994, at constant prices. [16661]

  Mr. Wilson
  The cash values of receipts from the two schemes since payments began in 1996–97 are as follows:

  £ million

  Year

  BCSSS

  MPS

  Total

  1996–97

  39.5

  0.0

  39.5

  1997–98

  39.5

  113.0

  152.5

  1998–99

  107.1

  113.0

  220.1

  1999–2000

  107.1

  0.0

  107.1

  2000–01

  53.9

  257.0

  310.9

  2001–02

  216.0

  196.0

  412.0

  The Department's calculation of the value of these sums at 2000–01 prices, using the GDP Deflator is as follows.
  564W

  £ million

  Year

  BCSSS

  MPS

  Total

  1996–97

  43.7

  0.0

  43.7

  1997–98

  42.3

  121.2

  163.5

  1998–99

  111.7

  117.9

  229.6

  1999–2000

  109.0

  0.0

  109.0

  2000–01

  53.9

  257.0

  310.9

  2001–02

  210.7

  191.2

  401.9

  Miners' Compensation
  Tony Wright
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what the average level is of(a) interim and (b) final payments made to date to former miners and their estates under the chronic bronchitis and emphysema compensation scheme. [16694]

  Mr. Wilson
  Interim payments are made in a wide range of circumstances and vary widely in value. Claimants who are in receipt of the Industrial Injuries Benefit, PD D12, automatically receive an interim payment of £2,000. Further interims are offered where an expedited offer is made to a claimant, who subsequently rejects the offer and elects to undergo the full Medical Assessment Process or MAP. Where there is an outstanding issue prohibiting a full and final offer, an interim payment is made, the percentage determined by IRISC, the Department's claims handlers. Interim payments are also advanced to the estate or widow, subject to certain criteria cited in the Handling Agreement, of between £3,500 and £7,500. Interest is applicable. To date, over 41,300 interim payments have been made, amounting to £159.5 million. This averages at £3,857, although some claimants may be eligible for more than one payment.

  Full and final offers including expedited payments vary widely. Expedited offers are made between £2,050 and £14,500. To date, over 12,800 settlements have been made to the value of £68.2 million. This averages at £5,293 per claimant.

  Renewable Energy
  Mr. Sayeed
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what research the Government are conducting into underwater tractors used to plant wind farms off the Dutch coast. [16726]

  Mr. Wilson
  The Department's wind R&D programme has offshore wind as a key priority, and specifically:

  the development and evaluation of improved offshore installation techniques and vessels.

  To date no proposals have been put forward to evaluate the concept of installing offshore wind turbines using tractors or other devices that have the capability to drive along the seabed rather than using surface vessels. Consequently there has been no research on the programme in this area. The opportunity for industry to conduct research in this area remains.

  Mr. Sayeed
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what research her Department is conducting into the problems of off-shore wind turbines, with particular reference to fatigue caused by waves and wind vibrating the structure in rough weather. [16724]
  565W
  Mr. Wilson
  The Department is currently supporting a project addressing this area. It is monitoring the loads, waves and wind on the UK's first offshore wind turbines at Blyth. It will provide the data and analysis to improve our understanding of the design loads and assumptions that should be used in these more severe offshore conditions, especially the treatment of combined wave and wind loading for both fatigue and extreme loads.

  The objectives of the project are:
  to establish and then analyse a database of measurements for validation and enhancement of advanced methods for computer modelling and design analysis of offshore wind turbines.
  to provide a critical appraisal of present design procedures and certification rules for offshore wind turbines and to recommend changes where appropriate.
  to catalogue the key design requirements of offshore wind turbines for sites where the environmental conditions are severe.

  The project is due for completion in 2003, but papers on the interim results are expected in advance of this.

  Mr. Sayeed
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what research is being conducted by her Department into designing a lattice tower that can change its stiffness and resonant frequency by causing hydraulic pistons to control the rigidity of the diagonal cross bars for off-shore wind turbines. [16734]

  Mr. Wilson
  The Department's wind R&D programme attaches priority to offshore wind and specifically to the following aspects of offshore wind R&D projects:the development and evaluation of innovative UK wind turbine components, offering improved performance;
  the development and evaluation of innovative wind turbine designs offering improved performance.

  To date no proposals have been put forward to design a lattice tower that can change its stiffness and resonant frequency by causing hydraulic pistons to control the rigidity of the diagonal cross bars for off-shore wind turbines. Consequently there has been no research on the programme in this area.

  Aggregates
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry how much(a) aggregate and (b) concrete product by weight was imported to Britain in the last 12 months for which figures are available. [16702]

  Mr. Wilson
  During the 12 months to June 2001, the United Kingdom imported some 380,000 tonnes of aggregate and some 50,000 tonnes of concrete products.

  Wave Power
  Mr. Peter Duncan
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if she will (1) list the proposed wave power developments awaiting planning permission in(a) Scotland, (b) England, (c) Wales and (d) Northern Ireland, giving their predicted output in kilowatt hours; [16334]

  (2) publish a list of the operational wave power locations in (a) Scotland, (b) England, (c) Wales and (d) Northern Ireland, giving their output in kilowatt hours. [16335]

  Mr. Wilson
  [holding answer 20 November 2001]: The information is as follows.
  566W
  (a) In Scotland, the LIMPET shoreline device in Islay has a maximum capacity of 500 kW, although it does not generate at this level at present.

  There are no operational wave power installations in England, Wales or Northern Ireland.

  There are no proposals for wave power developments awaiting planning permission in Scotland, England, Wales or Northern Ireland.

  Wave power offers a substantial source of renewable energy for the future and the Government are actively seeking to encourage its development.

  Regional Development Agencies
  Dr. Kumar
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what is the annual(a) running cost and (b) budget for each of the regional development agencies. [16447]

  Alan Johnson
  [holding answer 20 November 2001]: The RDA's gross budgets and administrative budgets for 2001–02 are as follows:

  £000

  Net budget1

  Administration budget

  One North East

  157,755

  10,653

  North West Development Agency

  276,215

  14,044

  Yorkshire Forward

  218,134

  9,989

  East Midlands Development Agency

  86,717

  7,488

  Advantage West Midlands

  159,801

  8,793

  East of England Development Agency

  58,247

  5,836

  South East Development Agency

  97,851

  7,143

  South West Development Agency

  84,663

  9,099

  London Development Agency

  277,142

  9,470

  Total

  1.416,525

  82,515

  1 Excluding receipts

  Power Station (Plymouth)
  Mr. Streeter
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (1) what estimate she has made of when construction of the power station at Langage, Plymouth will commence; [17382]

  (2) what steps will be taken by his Department to supervise the construction of the power station at Langage, Plymouth. [17381]

  Mr. Wilson
  It is a commercial matter for the company when construction takes place. In carrying out that construction the company will have to comply with the planning conditions imposed on the development which are enforced by the relevant planning authorities. In this particular case the planning authorities are South Hams district council and Devon county council.

  Nuclear Installations
  Mr. Weir
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if the remit of the Energy Review Group has been extended to include the consideration of security at nuclear power stations. [16796]

  Mr. Wilson
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: The energy review was not extended in this way because the PIU is not the competent body for reviewing the security of nuclear installations.
  567W
  The Office for Civil Nuclear Security, the security regulator at civil nuclear sites, sets stringent standards for security at nuclear sites. OCNS works closely with the Health and Safety Executive, the safety regulator, which provides advice on the safety implications of events, including external hazards such as plane crashes, at nuclear installations. Security and safety precautions at nuclear sites are kept under regular review. Both regulators are reviewing all relevant precautions in the light of the recent terrorist attacks in the USA.

  The issue of energy infrastructure security in the face of terrorist activity has been raised at a general level in meetings and workshops held by the PIU after 11 September.

  Mr. Weir
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what representations the Energy Review Group have received in relation to security at nuclear power stations following the events of 11 September. [16801]

  Mr. Wilson
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: The deadline for written submissions to the PIU Energy Review was before 11 September and so the majority of material received does not make reference to the tragic events in New York. The issue of energy infrastructure security in the face of terrorist activity has been raised at a general level in subsequent meetings and workshops held by the PIU and in the small number of late replies.

  A list of the submissions received by the Energy Review and a summary of the key themes raised can be viewed at the PIU website at www.cabinet-office.gov.uk/innovation. Section B7 of the summary outlines the various points made to the review concerning nuclear power.

  Electricity Generation
  Mr. Kevan Jones
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what proportion of the UK's electricity was generated by nuclear power in(a) 1995, (b) 1996, (c) 1997, (d) 1998, (e) 1999 and (f) 2000. [17333]

  Mr. Wilson
  I refer my hon. Friend to the answer given to the hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Mr. Stunell) on 13 November 2001,Official Report, column 656W.

  Mr. Russell Brown
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what proportion of Scotland's electricity was generated by nuclear power in(a) 1995, (b) 1996, (c) 1997, (d) 1998, (e) 1999 and (f) 2000. [17227]

  Mr. Wilson
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: Available information shows that in 1997 41 per cent. of the electricity generated in Scotland by major power producers was from nuclear stations. This rose to 44 per cent. in 1998, but then declined to 40 per cent. in 1999 and 34 per cent. in 2000. Figures for 1995 and 1996 are not readily available.

  Medicine Licensing
  Mr. Weir
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what steps she will take to(a) extend the partial agreement on access to medicines for developing nations reached at Doha and (b) reach agreement on compulsory licensing in third countries. [16799]
  568W
  Ms Hewitt
  [holding answer 22 November 2001 The UK whole-heartedly supports the Declaration on the TRIPS agreement and Public Health issued at the successful conclusion of the Fourth Ministerial Meeting of the WTO at Doha, Qatar. This also commits member states, working through the TRIPS Council, to develop a solution before the end of 2002 as to how WTO Members with insufficient or no manufacturing capacities in the pharmaceutical sector might make effective use of compulsory licensing under the TRIPS Agreement.

  The UK continues to work in a range of other ways both bilaterally and through for example, the Global Fund for Health to improve access to medicines in poor countries.

  Overseas Workers
  Mr. Keetch
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what representations she has received on introducing legislation to ensure that employees are informed of Foreign and Commonwealth Office advice by British companies seeking to send workers abroad; and if she will make a statement. [16961]

  Alan Johnson
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: I am not aware of any representations to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry on this matter.

  Foreign and Commonwealth Office travel advice is already readily accessible to employers as well as the general public by telephone (020 7008 0232/0233) and the FCO website "www.fco.gov.uk".

  Ilisu Dam
  Dr. Tonge
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if she will make a statement on the recent decision by Balfour Beatty to withdraw from the Ilisu Dam project. [17337]

  Ms Hewitt
  The decision taken by Balfour Beatty to withdraw from the Ilisu project was entirely a commercial decision and not a matter for Government.

  White Goods
  Mr. Sayeed
  To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what plans she has for promoting improvement of energy standards of white goods in the European Union. [16749]

  Mr. Meacher
  I have been asked to reply.

  The Department will continue to encourage improved energy standards for household appliances, including white goods, the European Union via a mixture of policy instruments including mandatory energy labelling, minimum energy performance standards and voluntary agreements.

  We propose to work closely with stakeholders and other member states to reach agreement on the European Commission's proposals for a Framework Directive for Minimum Efficiency Requirements for End-Use Equipment (due to be published in early 2002); to complete

  569W
  the review of Council Directive 92/75/EEC (on the indication by labelling and standard product information of the consumption of energy and other resources by household appliances) and to negotiate new voluntary agreements with European manufacturers and service providers as necessary.

HEALTH

  Dentists
  Peter Bradley
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health what was(a) the average annual income and (b) the average working week of dentists in (i) the NHS and (ii) private practice in the last 12 months. [9259]

  Ms Blears
  Information on the working hours of general dental service dentists is not routinely collected.

  For dentists national health service income, the information regularly available is for payments by the Dental Practice Board for gross fees paid to dentists, but there is no corresponding data on hours worked. For private work, the available information is from the annual Inland Revenue survey of income and expenses. A survey carried out by the Office of Manpower Economics (OME) in March 2000, provides some limited data on this area. The survey reported:
  The average number of hours worked for single handed dentists at 43.1 hours per week.
  Full-time practitioners wholly committed to the GDS reported total gross fee earnings averaging £163,900 in the most recently completed financial year. These figures are affected by transfers of payments from associate dentists to practice owners.

  We estimate that the average net income for all dentists wholly committed to the GDS for the period ending 30 September 2001 would be about £65,000 after allowing for an average of £2,600 for other payments to dentists, an average expenses to income ratio for all dental work of 54.1 per cent. subsequent fee increases and the introduction of the dentists commitment payments scheme. The OME survey did not report private earnings of dentists, but using information collected by the Inland Revenue it is estimated that the average income for single-handed dentists from both GDS work and private practice would be around £70,000.

  Mental Health
  Mr. Heald
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make a statement on the results of the collaboration between the Mental Health Act Commission, the Sainsbury centre for mental health and the university of Lancashire on ethnic monitoring, racial harassment and training, announced on 24 October 2000. [9516]

  Jacqui Smith
  The report from the Mental Health Act Commission, the Sainsbury centre for mental health and the university of central Lancashire will inform the work currently being drawn up to develop a strategy to address the needs of black and minority ethnic service users. It is hoped that the strategy will go for consultation in spring 2002 and be published later that year.

  Computer Crime
  Mr. Burstow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many cases of computer(a) hacking (b) fraud and
  570W
  (c) theft his Department has recorded in 2000 and 2001; and on how many occasions in 2000 and 2001 computer systems in his Department have been illegally accessed by computer hackers (i) within and (ii) outside his Department. [11000]

  Ms Blears
  There have been no reported incidents of illegal hacking or fraud on the Department's computer systems in 2000 and 2001. In 2000 there were computer thefts with a value of £45,894, whereas the equivalent figure for the year 2001 to date is £34,263.

  Lymphoedema
  Mr. Laurence Robertson
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health what clinics exist(a) in the UK and (b) in Gloucestershire to treat lymphoedema; what resources are provided for the treatment of that disease in (a) and (b); what training doctors are given in diagnosing and treating the disease; and if he will make a statement. [11059]

  Ms Blears
  [holding answer October 2001]: Data on the number of lymphoedema clinics across the United Kingdom are not collected centrally. A lymphoedema nurse specialist, funded by Macmillan Cancer Relief, holds weekly clinics in Gloucester and Cheltenham and also provides a domiciliary service.

  Lymphoedema care is mainly a nurse-led service and all breast cancer nurses will have lymphoedema management training. Doctors will receive training as part of their general medical training with further specialist training available in the charitable sector. In addition, there are a growing number of Lymphoedema specialist nurses who will have undertaken specialist nurse training which is carried out mainly in the charitable sector by organisations such as Macmillan Cancer Relief and Marie Curie Cancer Care. This is very much a nurse-led service and specialist nurses are recommended both in "Improving Outcomes Guidance" and the national cancer plan as being a vital part of the multidisciplinary team.

  NICE are developing guidance on supportive care which will include guidance on the support of patients with lymphoedema.

  NHS Dentistry (Wiltshire)
  Dr. MurrisonMs Blears
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make a statement on the availability of NHS dentistry in Wiltshire. [12854]Wiltshire health authority has a dental access plan to ensure that all residents who wish to can access a national health service dentist within a reasonable time and distance. It is meeting the targets set in the plan. A dental access centre opened in Swindon in March 2000 and the health authority is planning to open a second in Chippenham in 2002.

  Accident and Emergency (Staffing)
  Dr. Murrison
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health what plans he has to increase the number of nurse practitioners in accident and emergency departments. [12862]
  571W
  Ms Blears
  Reforming emergency care will provide funding of £40 million to recruit 600 additional nurses to work in accident and emergency departments. The additional nursing staff will consist of accident and emergency nurses, emergency nurse practitioners and nurse consultants in emergency care.

  Anti-TNF Treatment
  Martin Linton
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) if he will make a statement on NHS circular HSC/1999/176 with respect to the duty of health authorities to develop policies for the managed introduction of drugs in advance of a decision by the National Institute for Clinical Excellence; [13173]

  (2) when the National Institute for Clinical Excellence will report on anti-TNF drugs. [13174]

  (3) whether health authorities and primary care groups may fund anti-TNF drugs in advance of the decision by the National Institute for Clinical Excellence; and (a) how many and (b) which are doing so. [13175]

  Ms Blears
  We anticipate that the National Institute for Clinical Excellence will publish its guidance on anti-TNF drugs for rheumatoid arthritis in March 2002.

  Until NICE has completed its appraisal, standing guidance in health service circular 1999/176 advises national health service bodies to use their existing arrangements to determine local prescribing policies, using the publicly available evidence to inform their decision.

  The extent to which the NHS funds anti-TNF drugs will vary depending on local circumstances and priorities. Information on these local assessments is not collected centrally.

  Public Service Agreements
  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make a statement on the Public Service Agreement target to improve the educational attainment of children looked after by local authorities by increasing to at least 50 per cent. by 2001 the proportion of children leaving care aged 16 or above with a GCSE or GNVQ qualification. [14948]

  Jacqui Smith
  Data published by the Department on 19 October 2001 showed that in year ending 31 March 2001, 37 per cent. of the 6,500 young people leaving care at age 16-plus obtained one or more GCSEs or GNVQs. This compares with 30 per cent. of care leavers in the previous year. Thirty local councils reported meeting the 50 per cent. target compared to 15 in the previous year.

  The attainment figures for year ending 31 March 2001 are based on examinations sat in summer 2000 and earlier, therefore preceding many of the important Government initiatives now under way to improve attainment.

  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health what the Public Service Agreement target is for 2001–02 for the proportion of children in local authority care to have three or more placements in one year. [14913]
  572W
  Jacqui Smith
  The public service agreement target set following the comprehensive spending review in 1998 was:"Improve the continuity of care given to children looked after by local authorities by reducing to no more than 16 per cent. in all authorities the proportion of such children who have three or more placements in one year by March 2001."

  This target has been rolled forward to March 2002 thus enabling those authorities that have already met the target to continue to demonstrate their good practice and to provide those which have yet to meet it a further opportunity to achieve the standard required.

  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make a statement on progress towards meeting the Public Service Agreement target of a reduction in the death rate from accidents by at least 20 per cent. by 2010. [14888]

  Ms Blears
  Latest available data (for the three years 1998–2000) show virtually no movement in the national death rate from unintentional injury. The target was announced in the saving lives White Paper published in July 1999, so we would not yet expect to see significant progress reflected in the information currently available.

  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make a statement on progress in meeting the Public Service Agreement target for reducing the national average emergency psychiatric re-admission rate by two per cent. by 2002. [14914]

  Jacqui Smith
  Assessment of progress is set out in the table. It shows the number of emergency psychiatric re-admissions of patients aged 16–64 within 90 days of all discharges from the care of a psychiatric specialist as a percentage of such discharges.

  1998–99

  1999–2000

  2000–01

  Number of re-admissions within 90 days

  15,461

  14,875

  14,068

  Total number of discharges

  113,585

  114,616

  110,312

  Re-admission rate (percentage)

  113.6

  113.0

  112.8

  Progress is being made, and the national milestone as stated in the mental health national service framework to reduce the rate of psychiatric emergency readmissions by April 2002, from 14.3 per cent. to 12.3 per cent. is on target to being achieved.

  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make a statement on progress in meeting the Public Service Agreement target of reducing the per capita rate of growth in emergency admissions of people aged over 75 years to an annual average of two per cent. up to 2002–03. [14915]

  Ms Blears
  The rates of growth nationally of emergency admissions of people aged 75 and over since 1998–99 are:

  1998–99 to 1999–2000: 0.62 per cent.

  1999–2000 to 2000–01: 0.01 per cent.

  2000–01 to 2001–02 (forecast): 0.30 per cent.

  All are within the present two per cent. growth target.

  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make a statement on success in meeting the Public Service Agreement target of reducing to no more
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  than 16 per cent. the proportion of children in local authority care who had three or more placements in one year by 2001. [14921]

  Jacqui Smith
  Provisional data for the year ending 31 March 2001 indicate that 78 per cent. of local councils in England met the target of having no more than 16 per cent. of their looked after children having three or more placements in the year.

  The equivalent percentage of local councils who met this target in 1999–2000 and in 1998–99 was 53 per cent. and 39 per cent. respectively.

  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make a statement on progress towards meeting the Public Service Agreement target of a reduction in serious accidental injury relating to admission to hospital by at least 10 per cent. by 2010. [14887]

  Ms Blears
  Latest available data (1998–99) show virtually no movement in serious accidental injury relating to hospital admission. The target was announced in the saving lives White Paper published in July 1999, so we could not yet expect to see progress reflected in the information currently available.

  Appointments
  Mr. Collins
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many appointments he has made to public bodies since 7 June; and how many are in his gift. [15490]

  Ms Blears
  Information about numbers of ministerial appointments to public bodies is included in the Cabinet Office's annual report, "Public Bodies". Copies are available in the Library and the report is published on the Cabinet Office's internet website. The next edition of "Public Bodies", which will include numbers of appointments at 31 March 2001, will be published around the end of the year.

  238 public appointments were made by departmental Ministers between 7 June and 31 October 2001. A total of 1,041 public appointments are directly within the gift of Department of Health Ministers, 14 of which are joint appointments with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. Public appointments to national health service trusts, health authorities and primary care trusts have since April 2001 been made by the NHS Appointments Commission.

  NHS Magazine
  Dr. Fox
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health what the total costs were to his Department of producing the NHS magazine in the last 12 months. [15328]

  Ms Blears
  The Department has spent £899,480 on the production and distribution of the NHS magazine in the last 12 months (November 2000-October 2001).

  Child Care
  Dr. Fox
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health what research he has conducted into the reasons for the change in the number of children looked after by local councils since 1997. [15411]
  574W
  Jacqui Smith
  The Department commissioned, at the beginning of the year, the Thomas Coram Research Unit (Institute of Education, University of London) to conduct a tightly focused research study into the reasons that lie behind the increase in the number of children looked after by local authorities since 1994.

  The research is designed to assess, among other things, the extent to which drug taking, alcoholism, violence and mental health problems within the family may have been significant factors underlying decisions made by local authorities to look after children.

  Diabetes
  Mr. Vaz
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) how many people he estimates to be suffering from diabetes in each health area; [15788]

  (2) if he will make the treatment of diabetes a higher priority; [15753]

  (3) when he plans to publish the national service framework for diabetes; [15755]

  (4) when he will publish a statement on his plans to identify the two types of diabetes; [15757]

  (5) what recent consultations he has had with people suffering from diabetes. [15756]

  Jacqui Smith
  An estimated 1.3 million people in England have diagnosed diabetes. A population of 100,000 would be expected to include between 2,000 and 3,000 people with diabetes.

  We are committed to improving the quality of care for people with diabetes. That is why we are developing a national service framework for diabetes. We shall be publishing the framework in two stages—the standards shortly and the delivery strategy next summer. The standards will cover the prevention, identification and management of diabetes and its complications.

  Ministers have met regularly with Diabetes UK, which represents people with diabetes, and I last met with it on 22 October. We have involved people with diabetes in the development of the diabetes national service framework standards, and the implementation group that will inform the development of the delivery strategy will work openly with people with diabetes and others with an interest.

  Mr. Vaz
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health what the expenditure on diabetes was in each year since 1996, in the Leicestershire health authority. [15752]

  Jacqui Smith
  It is difficult to be precise about the exact level of expenditure on diabetes, as people with this condition are cared for by so many sectors of the health services. The table details the general medical services non-discretionary expenditure incurred by Leicestershire health authority on the chronic disease management programme for diabetes in each financial year since 1996–97. It must be emphasised that these figures do not reflect the full expenditure on diabetes by the health authority during this period.
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  General medical service non-discretionary expenditure on CDM diabetes 1996–97 to 2000–01—Leicestershire health authority

  Year

  £

  1996–97

  174,450

  1997–98

  189,377

  1998–99

  193,767

  1999–2000

  208,114

  2000–011

  215,895

  1 Data for 2000–01 are provisional

  Source:

  Annual financial returns for health authorities

  Smoking Cessation
  Ms Walley
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will announce his decision in respect of funding for smoking cessation for(a) 2002–03 and (b) subsequent years in respect of the North Staffordshire health authority; and if he will make a statement. [15620]

  Ms Blears
  (holding answer 16 November 2001]: Decisions on central funding for 2002–03 have not yet been finalised. Future decisions will form part of the Department's spending review 2002.

  The NHS plan sets out a major expansion in services to help reduce smoking. The national health service smoking cessation services have proved to be effective, helping around 61,500 smokers to quit at the four-week stage in 2000–01.

  Age Discrimination
  Ms Atherton
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health what action his Department has taken to tackle discrimination against older people. [16328]

  Jacqui Smith
  The national service framework for older people (NSF), published 27 March 2001, provides the first co-ordinated programme of actions to ensure that older people are never unfairly discriminated against in accessing national health service or social care services as a result of their age. Standard one of the NSF sets out actions and the time scale for achievement of milestones to identify and address age discriminatory policies and practices in the provision of health and social care services.

  To date, initial action has focused on ensuring older people are engaged in the policy and priority planning at national and local level; the undertaking of an audit of written, age-related policies in the NHS; and the development of guidance for undertaking a review of eligibility criteria for adult social care.

  Prescription Pricing Authority
  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make a statement on the breakdown of the costs to public funds in 2001–02 of the Prescription Pricing Authority. [16253]

  Ms Blears
  Information about the cost of the Prescription Pricing Authority (PPA) for 2001–02 will not be available until its accounts are completed and published in its next annual report in autumn 2002. Details of the PPA's costs and activities for 2000–01 are in the latest annual report. A copy is available in the Library and on the internet at www.ppa.org.uk.
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  Patient Advocates
  Mr. Bercow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health what the cost to public funds is in 2001–02 of the patient advocates in hospitals. [16249]

  Ms Blears
  £10 million was earmarked in 2001–02 to fund this service, which is now to be called the patient advice and liaison service following the response to the recent listening exercise.

  Cannabis
  Paul Flynn
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will bring forward legislation to allow medicinal cannabis to be prescribed in the same way as heroin. [16125]

  Ms Blears
  (holding answer 19 November 2001]: We have approved a number of clinical trials into the medicinal use of cannabis. Once the results of the trials have been properly evaluated, we will have an evidence base that will allow us to decide how to proceed.

  Pneumococcal Vaccinations
  Mr. Love
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) what steps he is taking to make the pneumococcal vaccine more widely available to the under 65 age group; and if he will make a statement; [16523]

  (2) in which health authorities in England and Wales the pneumococcal vaccine is available to those aged (a) over and (b) under 65 years; [16522]

  (3) what estimate he has made of (a) the lives saved,

  (b) the hospital bed days saved and (c) the hospital costs saved by extending the availability of the pneumococcal vaccine; and if he will make a statement. [16524]

  Jacqui Smith
  Pneumococcal vaccine is recommended for all those aged two years or older in whom pneumococcal infection is likely to be more common and/or dangerous, for example, those with:

  Asplenia or severe dysfunction of the spleen

  Chronic renal disease or nephrotic syndrome

  Immunodeficiency or immunosuppression due to disease or treatment, including HIV infection at all stages

  Chronic heart disease

  Chronic lung disease

  Chronic liver disease including cirrhosis

  Diabetes mellitus.

  Health authority data on the use of pneumococcal vaccine are not available. It is the responsibility of general practitioners and nurses to identify and immunise their at risk patients.

  The Department has not carried out a cost-effectiveness study of administering the pneumococcal vaccine, but continues to recommend the vaccine based on underlying ill health rather than age.

  National Institute for Clinical Excellence
  Mr. Burstow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health what monitoring his Department has undertaken to ensure that NICE guidance is fully implemented for each
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  technology appraisal undertaken by NICE where the technology was recommended as suitable for use within the NHS. [15966]

  Ms Blears
  [holding answer 20 November 2001]: I refer the hon. Member to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich, North (Dr. Gibson) on 5 November 2001, Official Report, column 119W.

  Small Acute Hospitals (Emergency Admissions)
  Andrew George
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health what recent discussions he has had with the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons regarding the future of smaller acute hospitals which take emergency admissions. [16457]

  Ms Blears
  [holding answer 20 November 2001]: Ministers hold regular meetings with the royal colleges to discuss developments in the NHS.

  I will be meeting Professor Alberti, President of the Royal College of Physicians in the near future to discuss issues around acute medicine and emergency services with particular reference to acute hospitals.

  Nuffield Trust
  Andrew George
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health what assessment he has made of the Nuffield Trust report, "Local Medical Emergency Units: Learning Set Interim". [16456]

  Ms Blears
  [holding answer 20 November 2001]: This is a useful and interesting interim report offering some alternative thinking on the idea of localised medical care provision brought about by technological developments in communications.

  This will undoubtedly make an important contribution to the on-going debate around service development.

  Beef Imports
  Mr. Alan Reid
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps are taken to ensure that beef imported from other countries, from which spinal cord tissue has not been removed, is safe. [16284]

  Ms Blears
  [holding answer 20 November 2001]: Where consignments of imported carcase beef are found with spinal cord still attached, and the age of the animals at slaughter or the countries of origin of the consignment means that such spinal cord is defined as specified risk material, the whole of the carcase or part carcase containing the spinal cord is detained and destroyed and is not permitted to enter the human food or animal food chains.

  Ward Housekeepers
  Mr. Burstow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many ward housekeepers were in post using the most recent figures available, broken down by(a) region and (b) health authority. [16762]

  Ms Blears
  [holding answer 21 November 2001]: The NHS plan set the target that:
  "Half of all hospitals will have ward housekeepers by 2004".
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  To date, 29 per cent. of acute hospitals and 23 per cent. of mental health hospitals have begun to introduce the service (although not necessarily across all wards). Because there are local variations in how services are organised, we do not have data on the number of housekeepers in post. However, the latest figures provided by trusts to National Health Service Estates indicate that of the 9,000 wards within England, 2,266 have a housekeeping service.

  Breakdown by region

  Region

  Number of wards with housekeeping service

  Northern and Yorkshire

  409

  Trent

  309

  West Midlands

  240

  North West

  177

  Eastern

  220

  London

  276

  South East

  426

  South West

  209

  Total

  2,266

  Breakdown by health authorities

  Health authority

  Number of wards with housekeeping service

  Northern and Yorkshire region

  Bradford HA

  25

  County Durham and Darlington HA

  26

  East Riding and Hull HA

  55

  Gateshead and South Tyneside HA

  0

  Leeds HA

  116

  Newcastle and North Tyneside HA

  3

  North Cumbria HA

  3

  Northumberland HA

  26

  Sunderland HA

  41

  Tees HA

  37

  Wakefield HA

  56

  North Yorkshire HA

  17

  Calderdale and Kirklees HA

  4

  Trent region

  Barnsley HA

  5

  North Derbyshire HA

  0

  South Derbyshire HA

  16

  Doncaster HA

  0

  Leicestershire HA

  40

  Lincolnshire HA

  48

  North Nottinghamshire HA

  38

  Nottingham HA

  55

  Rotherham HA

  0

  Sheffield HA

  107

  South Humber HA

  0

  West Midlands region

  Birmingham HA

  106

  Coventry HA

  7

  Dudley HA

  3

  Herefordshire HA

  0

  Sandwell HA

  23

  Shropshire HA

  12

  Solihull HA

  0

  North Staffordshire HA

  0

  South Staffordshire HA

  36

  Walsall HA

  26

  Warwickshire HA

  22

  Wolverhampton HA

  4

  Worcestershire HA

  1

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  Breakdown by health authorities

  Health authority

  Number of wards with housekeeping service

  North West region

  South Lancashire HA

  0

  Liverpool HA

  14

  Manchester HA

  0

  Morecambe Bay HA

  2

  St. Helen's and Knowsley HA

  31

  Salford and Trafford HA

  26

  Sefton HA

  3

  Stockport HA

  0

  West Pennine HA

  36

  Bury and Rochdale HA

  31

  North Cheshire HA

  0

  South Cheshire HA

  4

  East Lancashire HA

  14

  North West Lancashire HA

  6

  Wigan and Bolton HA

  10

  Wirral HA

  0

  Eastern region

  Bedfordshire HA

  9

  North Essex HA

  34

  South Essex HA

  12

  Suffolk HA

  30

  Cambridgeshire HA

  62

  Norfolk HA

  12

  Hertfordshire HA

  61

  London region

  Hillingdon HA

  0

  Kensington, Chelsea and Westminster HA

  25

  Redbridge and Waltham Forest HA

  0

  Croydon HA

  0

  Kingston and Richmond HA

  0

  Lambeth, Southwark and Lewisham HA

  74

  Merton, Sutton and Wandsworth HA

  16

  Barking and Havering HA

  0

  Brent and Harrow HA

  4

  Camden and Islington HA

  5

  Ealing, Hammersmith and Hounslow HA

  76

  East London and the City HA

  0

  Barnet, Enfield and Haringey HA

  37

  Bexley, Bromley and Greenwich HA

  39

  South East region

  Berkshire HA

  13

  Buckinghamshire HA

  28

  East Kent HA

  65

  West Kent HA

  22

  East Surrey HA

  25

  West Surrey HA

  49

  East Sussex, Brighton and Hove HA

  63

  West Sussex HA

  49

  Northamptonshire HA

  27

  Oxfordshire HA

  25

  North and Mid Hampshire HA

  6

  Southampton and South West Hampshire HA

  16

  Isle of Wight, Portsmouth and South East Hampshire HA

  38

  South West region

  Somerset HA

  0

  South and West Devon HA

  39

  Wiltshire HA

  2

  Avon HA

  43

  Cornwall and Isles of Scilly HA

  37

  Dorset HA

  13

  North and East Devon HA

  54

  Gloucestershire HA

  21

  580W

  Winter Plan 2001
  Dr. Fox
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health when he expects to publish the 2001 winter plan. [16842]

  Ms Blears
  We expect to publish the winter plan in early December.

  Tuberculosis Vaccine
  Dr. Fox
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health what proportion of 10 to 14-year-olds are inoculated against tuberculosis in each health authority in the latest year for which figures are available. [16840]

  Jacqui Smith
  The information available for children aged 10 to 15 immunised against tuberculosis (BCG) is contained in table 8 of the statistical bulletin "NHS Immunisation Statistics, England: 2000–01". The information is by the national health service trust whose staff immunised the child, and not by the child's health authority of residence.

  A copy of the bulletin is in the Library and can also be found on the Department's website www.doh.gov.uk/public/sb0121.htm.

  Consultant Neurologists
  Mr. Burstow
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many consultant neurologist(a) vacancies and (b) posts there were in 2000; and how many of the consultant neurologists in post in 2000 were (i) full-time and (ii) part-time. [16806]

  Mr. Hutton
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: The number of consultant neurologists employed and the type of contract they held in September 2000 are shown in the table.

  Hospital medical consultant neurologists by nature of contract England at 30 September 2000

  All staff

  All staff

  330

  Full time

  230

  Maximum part-time

  —

  Part-time

  40

  Honorary

  60

  Source:

  Department of Health 2000 medical and dental workforce census

  Information is not collected centrally on the number of consultant neurologist posts and vacancies.

  Cirencester Hospital
  Mr. Clifton-Brown
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) what recent discussions he has had with(a) East Gloucestershire health trust, (b) Cotswold and Stroud primary care group and (c) Gloucestershire health authority about proposed changes to the range of services offered at Cirencester hospital with particular reference to the A&E Department; [16876]

  (2) what discussions he has had with Gloucestershire ambulance trust about the provision for an additional ambulance for residents in Cirencester who need to travel longer distances to other hospitals following a curtailment of services at Cirencester. [16877]
  581W
  Ms Blears
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has had no discussions about the future of services at Cirencester hospital. This is a matter for the local national health service bodies.

  Medicines (Side Effects)
  Mr. Heald
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) if he will make a statement on the circumstances in which a medicine with severe side effects would cease to be licensed; [17121]

  (2) what steps he is taking to establish if a typical anti-psychotics have a lower incidence of adverse side effects, with particular reference to tardive dyskinesia; [17124]

  (3) if he will make a statement on the circumstances to be taken into account by the MCA in monitoring the licensing of a medicine, with particular reference to the licensing of a new medicine with a lower incidence of side effects. [17120]

  Ms Blears
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: The primary objective of the Medicines Control Agency (MCA) is to safeguard public health by ensuring that all medicines on the UK market meet appropriate standards of safety, quality and efficacy. A marketing authorisation is granted when the balance of risks and benefits is considered to be favourable in the proposed indication.

  The MCA continually monitors the safety of all medicines using a number of data sources with expert advice from the independent scientific advisory committee, the Committee on Safety of Medicines. If there is evidence that the balance of risks and benefits is no longer favourable, regulatory action may he taken to minimise risk. This may include strengthening warnings, restricting the terms of the marketing authorisation, or in appropriate circumstances its revocation. Such regulatory action is pursued with the Medicines for Human Use (Marketing Authorisations Etc.) Regulation, SI 1994 No. 3144 and relevant European Community obligations.

  Spontaneous reporting data, which are collated by the MCA/CSM through the yellow card scheme, can be used to compare the safety profiles of medicines within a drug class. However, these comparisons must be evaluated with care, as levels of reporting of adverse reactions for particular drugs are dependent on a number of factors including the usage of the drug and the length of time it has been on the market.

  The MCA/CSM intensively monitors the safety of all new medicines under a scheme called the black triangle scheme where any of the following circumstances apply:
  If the medicine contains a new active substance or a combination of active substances
  If the medicine is administered via a novel route or drug delivery system
  If the medicine is going to be used in a new population of patients.

  National Health Service Reform and Health Care Professions Bill
  Mr. Heald
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) what assessment he has made of the changes in administrative work resulting from the implementation of Clauses 1 to 4 of the National Health Service Reform and Health Care Professions Bill; [16615]
  582W
  (2) what assessment he has made of the savings in management resulting from the implementation of Clauses 1 to 4 of the National Health Service Reform and Health Care Professions Bill. [16616]

  Mr. Hutton
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: Clauses 1 to 4 of the Bill prepare for the structural changes to the national health service. The 95 health authorities will be replaced by about 28 strategic health authorities; the eight regional offices of the Department will be abolished; and primary care trusts will be the key organisations undertaking an increased range of functions. £100 million is to be saved resulting from these changes: a combination not just of savings in management, but from a reduction in infrastructure and increases in shared services.

  Public Bodies
  Mr. Heald
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will list the(a) existing and (b) proposed NHS (i) national directors posts, (ii) commissions, (iii) offices, (iv) types of trust, (v) types of authority, (vi) groups, (vii) boards, (viii) committees, (ix) forums, (x) councils and (ix) bodies. [16613]

  Ms Blears
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: The Department of Health public appointments annual report 2000, copies of which were sent to all hon. Members, contains details of all national health service trusts, primary care trusts, health authorities, special health authorities and non-departmental public bodies, including their chairs and non-executive members, as at 1 April 2000.

  The 2001 public appointments annual report will be published, covering local and national bodies and appointments as at 1 April 2001. As in previous years, copies of the report will be sent to all hon. Members.

  25 primary care trusts and 14 NHS trusts have been established since 1 April 2001. 28 new health authorities are to be established from April 2002 to replace the 95 currently established. An anticipated 15 care trusts are likely to be established during the course of 2002–03. About 120 PCTs are likely to be established over the course of the next two years. Other national bodies established since 1 April 2001 and those planned for the future are as follows.
  National Bodies established since 1 April 2001

  Advisory Committee on Tissue Banking

  General Social Care Council

  National Treatment Agency

  National Patient Safety Agency

  Prescription Pricing Control Tribunal

  Social Care Institute for Excellence

  National Bodies planned to be established

  Council for the Regulation of Healthcare Professionals

  Commission for Patient and Public Involvement in Health

  Health Professionals Council

  NHS Shared Services Programme

  Nursing and Midwifery Council

  Tobacco Regulatory Authority

  Medical Education Standards Board.

  583W
  Directors and chief executives of special health authorities and departmental non-departmental public bodies are listed in "Public Bodies 2000", a copy of which is in the Library. The 2001 edition of "Public Bodies" will be published in January 2002.

  There is a wide range of other offices, groups, committees, forums and bodies operating within the NHS, information on which is not held centrally.

  Patients Forums
  Mr. Heald
  To ask the Secretary of State for Health what increase in public expenditure the creation of patients forums would require, after taking account of current funding allocations to community health councils and PALS. [16617]

  Ms Blears
  [holding answer 22 November 2001]: People are the most important resource and we will be working to ensure that we make the best use of time offered by lay volunteers in the health service. Patients forums will, of course, require support in terms of human and financial resources for their work, which will be provided by the Commission for Patient and Public Involvement in Health through its local networks. Funding is therefore tied into the overall resource requirements for the commission and the new arrangements collectively, which we are discussing with Her Majesty's Treasury as part of the spending review process.

TREASURY

  British Tourist Authority
  Barbara Follett
  To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what steps he has taken to reduce the levels of irrecoverable VAT incurred by the British Tourist Authority in the current financial year; and if he will make a statement. [18434]

  Mr. Boateng
  The BTA was awarded £14.2 million of additional funding this year to take forward its recovery plan to boost inbound tourism in the wake of the foot and mouth outbreak. Concern was raised in July that this would lead to the BTA incurring irrecoverable VAT on purchases relating to this programme.

  The BTA estimated the irrecoverable VAT would be around £600,000. However, HM Customs and Excise has now reached an agreement with the BTA to allow an increase in VAT recovery to achieve a fair and reasonable result within the existing rules. The agreement addresses the impact of foot and mouth disease upon all of BTA's work, not just the elements funded by extra grant in aid. As a result of this agreement, the BTA estimates that the level of irrecoverable VAT incurred on goods and services purchased as part of its tourism recovery programme has now been reduced by between £300,000 and £500,000.

  This agreement ensures that as much as possible of the BTA's grant-in-aid and extra funding will go directly towards helping inbound tourism to recover from a particularly difficult year, while complying with the tax laws which apply to all organisations buying goods and services.
  584W

  Tax Burdens
  Mr. Howard
  To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what in real terms was the tax burden in(a) 1997–98 and (b) the most recent year for which information is available on the lowest quintile of equivalised disposable income. [12799]

  Mr. Andrew Smith
  As a result of personal tax and benefit measures introduced since 1997, families with children in the poorest fifth of the population are on average £1,700 a year better off in real terms.

  The Office for National Statistics publishes an article, "The effects of taxes and benefits on household incomes", usually in the April edition of "Economic Trends". The most recent article states
  "it should be noted that year on year comparisons between quintile groups of the impact of tax in total could be affected by the inconsistency between income and expenditure for households in the bottom half of income distribution."

  It goes on to say
  "The results are intended to be free standing: they were not designed for direct comparison with other years."

  Bankruptcy and Winding-up Orders
  Mr. Lidington
  To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) how many(a) bankruptcy orders and (b) winding-up orders were granted to HM Customs and Excise in (i) 1999–2000, (ii) 2000–01 and (iii) 2001–02 to date; [11635]

  (2) how many (a) bankruptcy petitions and (b) winding-up petitions were issued by HM Customs and Excise in (a) 1999–2000, (b) 2000–01 and (c) 2001–02 to date. [11175]

  Mr. Boateng
  [holding answer 5 November 2001]: The latest information, which is available on HM Customs' and Excise website, www.hmce.gsi.gov.uk, is as follows:

  1999–2001

  Petitions issued

  Orders made

  Type

  1999–2000

  1999–2000

  Bankruptcy

  4,894

  2,412

  Winding up

  4,426

  2,750

  Figures are not yet available for 2000–01 and 2001–02.

  Venture Capital
  Mr. Flight
  To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) what the total venture capital investment was in real terms in the last year for which information is available in each region of the United Kingdom; [15940]

  (2) how much venture capital was invested in real terms in UK companies in each year since 1992. [15939]

  Mr. Boateng
  No official statistics are published on venture capital investment. Information is, however, collected by the British Venture Capital Association, and is available from its website, www.bvca.co.uk.

  Mr. Flight
  To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what the total venture capital investment was as a percentage of GDP in the last year for which information is available in each member state of the European Union. [15941]
  585W
  Mr. Boateng
  No official statistics are published on venture capital investment broken down by EU country. Information is, however, collected by the European Venture Capital Association and is available from its website, www.evca.com. GDP figures for EU members are available from Eurostat, www.europa.eu.int/comm/ eurostat.

  Mr. Flight
  To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what discussions he has had with the competition authorities of the European Commission on the Community investment scheme for venture capital subsidies in deprived areas; and if he will make a statement on compatibility of the proposals with European competition law on state aid. [15952]

  Mr. Boateng
  The Government are confident that their proposals are compatible with state aid regulations.

  Mr. Flight
  To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how he will define disadvantaged areas in relation to the operation of the community investment scheme for venture capital subsidies in deprived areas. [15951]

  Mr. Boateng
  I assume this question refers to proposals for a community development venture fund. The Government expect the operations of the community development venture fund to focus on the most disadvantaged areas in England as defined in the DTLR's index of multiple deprivation. The Government regard this a robust indicator of deprivation as it incorporates measures of:

  Income

  Employment

  Health, Deprivation and Disability

  Education, Skills and Training

  Geographical Access to Services

  Housing.

  Officials are still working on the details of the restrictions, which will require state aid approval.

  Investment Tax Credit
  Mr. Flight
  To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will estimate the deadweight take-up of the community investment tax credit in its first full year of operation; and what measures he will take to ensure that deadweight impact is minimised. [15933]

  Mr. Boateng
  Forecasting in this area is very uncertain, with respondents to the Government's consultation on the community investment tax credit giving wide-ranging estimates of demand. The Government will minimise deadweight through the selection procedure for organisations using the tax credit.

  White Papers
  Matthew Taylor
  To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer on how many occasions in the last 12 months, confidential final revise proof copies of White Papers have been made available under embargo to(a) the Lobby
  586W
  and Upper Gallery and (b) members of other organised groups of correspondents before publication; and if he will make a statement. [16707]

  Mr. Boateng
  The Treasury follows the guidance laid down in section 7: "Confidential Final Revise Copies" of the Cabinet Office's publication, "How to publish a Command Paper—February 2001" in its production of White Papers.

  Aggregates Levy
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what representations he has made to other European Union countries on the introduction of an aggregates levy broadly comparable with that proposed in the United Kingdom. [16732]

  Mr. Boateng
  The UK co-operates with the other member states in several European forums to discuss tax matters, and it does so with our national commitment to sustainable development very much to the fore. However, the implementation of an aggregates levy in any other member state must be a matter for the elected Government of that state.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) what assessment he has made of the impact on the international competitiveness of the United Kingdom's quarry industry of the introduction of the aggregates levy; [16704]

  (2) what assessment he has made of the likely change in the import of (a) aggregate and (b) concrete products as a result of the aggregates levy; [16706]

  (3) what assessment he has made of the likely change in the import of concrete products to the United Kingdom from (a) the Republic of Ireland and (b) other countries following the introduction of the aggregates levy. [16703]

  Mr. Boateng
  All imports of aggregate will be subject to the aggregates levy. Exports of aggregate from the UK will not be subject to the levy. This will protect the international competitiveness of the UK's quarrying industry.

  There is not expected to be significant impact on the concrete products sector generally because international trade in these products is limited by weight and transport costs. Imports currently represent a very small proportion of total pre-cast concrete industry sales, and these are mainly high value products whose prices would not be significantly affected by the levy.

  Mr. Heath
  To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) what representations he has received on the distribution of the sustainability fund derived from the proposed aggregates levy; [15339]

  (2) what part will be played by local elected representatives in the distribution of the sustainability fund derived from the proposed aggregates levy. [15341]

  Mr. Meacher
  I have been asked to reply.

  A DEFRA consultation paper on the possible distribution of the aggregates levy sustainability fund in

  587W
  England was published on 2 October 2001. A copy is available in the House of Commons Library.

  The paper invites views on how local authorities should be involved in the fund.

  We expect to receive comments on this issue and the others raised in the consultation paper until the consultation period closes on 27 November.

  Copies of the responses will be placed in the DEFRA library and may be published, unless a respondent asks for their response to be treated as confidential. Confidential responses will nevertheless be included in any statistical summary of views expressed.
  588W

  Working Hours
  Matthew Taylor
  To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer, pursuant to his answer of 6 November 2001,Official Report, column 154W, on working hours, if the raw data provided by staff are provided on a monthly basis; and if he will make a statement. [16710]

  Mr. Boateng
  Before September 2000, data on working hours were manually collected three times a year as set out in the information requested by the hon. Member on 14 November 2001,Official Report, column 774W. Since September 2000, a spreadsheet has been available for staff to record their working hours which provides information on a monthly basis.