Sitting of 24 July 1987

Preamble
The House met at half-past Nine o'clock
PRAYERS
[MR. SPEAKER in the Chair]
PRAYERS
  PETITION

    Primary Schools, Southwark
    9.34 am
    Mr. Simon Hughes: I beg leave to present a petition on behalf of parents, relatives, friends, governors and staff directly concerned with the education of children in primary schools in Southwark. Fifteen hundred signatures are appended to the petition, which complains that there are a number of primary schools
    "which are or have been without their required number of teachers for days, weeks or even in some cases terms; that local children are being deprived of their entitlement to education including the right to be able to go to school; that it is unacceptable for children to be sent home because of the shortage of teachers; and that the education authority and Her Majesty's Government have a legal and educational responsibility to bring this crisis to an end."
    Wherefore, on this last day of our term and of the school term, the petitioners pray that our
    "honourable House urge Her Majesty's Government to ensure that there arc sufficient good permanent teachers to fill all teaching places at our primary schools, in particular by September 1987; ensure that sufficient teachers are trained so that we never again have shortages of the present magnitude; ensure that the administration, direction, and organisation of the teaching profession and of the education service is made a priority for the next academic year and that housing authorities are charged with the responsibility of providing sufficient accommodation to meet the needs of teachers; and ensure most importantly that the teaching profession is once again restored to a status and a position where young people are able, eager and ready to become teachers in our capital city.
    And your Petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray etc."
    To lie upon the Table.

British Caledonian Airways
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—[Mr. Lightbown.]
9.36 am
Mr. Dick Douglas: I am grateful to the House for the opportunity to raise the matter of the British Airways bid for British Caledonian on a motion to adjourn the House. The subject was raised in the House on 16 July by my hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield (Mr. Blair), who said that trade union members first heard of the matter on their car radios. I know that the Government have made great play of giving the trade unions back to their members and have stressed that their policy of privatisation has involved many employees in direct ownership of major concerns. I shall have more to say about that in the later stages of my remarks. I shall
610
deal with the trade unions' legitimate worries about the conditions of the merger. The workers are rightly anxious about their jobs and employment prospects.
One of the ironic aspects of the proposal is that I represent a constituency with high unemployment and I note the involvement of Lord King. He is the chairman of Babcocks, which is involved in Rosyth dockyard where, apparently, the rights and wishes of the workers were and are disregarded, first when Babcocks received the management contract for the dockyard and now when another company, FKI, has made a bid for Babcocks.
Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to consider the Civil Aviation Act 1979 and some of the remarks of the former right hon. Member for South Down, Mr. Powell, during that debate. He said:
"When the House passed a series of nationalisation statutes 30 years ago, on what was called the Morrison model, it initiated a constitutional innovation which took some decades to digest. Eventually, though imperfectly, the House has come to grips with the problem of exerting proper control over the old-style nationalised industry, both on capital account and on its operations, without destroying the notion of a semi-commercial operation which was embedded in the statutes that set up such industries." — [Official Report, 19 November 1979; Vol. 974, c. 66.]
Over a period the Government have divested themselves of ownership and control of a number of state enterprises because of the need to finance tax cuts and reduce the public sector borrowing requirement. The list is long and the few examples that I shall give are well known to the House — the British National Oil Corporation, Cable and Wireless, Rolls-Royce, British Gas and British Telecom. We know that British Airways is involved as well. I echo Enoch Powell's remarks about the imperfect method that we adopted to control these organisations, but at least there were searchlights of public scrutiny that could he used to investigate the operations of massive publicly owned concerns, many of them being public utilities that served the nation.
Few will argue that in terms of public consumer satisfaction there have been dramatic changes for the better in the operation of British Telecom, for example, British Gas or British Airways. The Labour party has not found a satisfactory or adequate answer to its present rejection of the Morrisonian concept, but it is patent that the idea that these massive monopolies can be left entirely in the private domain to determine their market operations will not stand any detailed analysis.
During the exchanges on 16 July my hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield quoted from the Civil Aviation Authority's report on competition policy in 1984. It is a formidable document that will be well known to all hon. Members who are interested in these matters. I accept that there have been many changes since 1984, however, and that things have moved ahead, especially interchanges in the international economy. I accept also that these developments permit modifications of such strictures as appear in the sixth paragraph of the report. Nevertheless, for a benchmark I intend, with the approval of the House, to quote that paragraph. It is rather long but it has a thrust that I consider to be germane to the debate. It reads:
"It is sometimes argued that a single major British airline would be stronger than a multiplicity of airlines in competing with those other countries. In the United States it is the big airlines, with strong hub systems, that seem to be coming out on top in the deregulated environment. It is typical of most foreign countries that each has only one international flag carrier. There are, however, serious risks and substantial disadvantages in the pursuit of a single airline policy. A single

611
British international airline competing with its counterparts in Europe and in many other countries within a closely regulated framework of bilateral air services agreements would have less incentive to develop markets or to introduce new products that were of no interest to its commercial partners and would, in particular, be more likely to neglect the needs of would-be passengers with relatively limited available means, as is the case for example in Germany today and as was the case with the predecessors of British Airways, when the competition from other British airlines was much less than it is today. There would be a greater likelihood that a sole British international flag carrier would sooner or later become, again, a high-cost and high-fare operator, competing in terms of products rather than price. Such an airline, enjoying and indeed requiring a protected environment, would be exposed, as British Airways and its predecessors were in the past and as many European airlines are today, to the upward pressures of labour costs and low productivity."
That is a formidable stricture. I welcome the ministerial view that there have been changes since 1984, but they are changes that do not permit the Government to stand back and let the market take its course. As I have said, there have been many changes in the international economy that compel a modification of outlook, but to the best of my knowledge the Government have adhered, in the main, to the thrust of the 1984 outlook, at least until the past few weeks.
In a stirring speech, the right hon. Member for Cirencester and Tewkesbury (Mr. Ridley), who before becoming Secretary of State for the Environment was Secretary of State for Transport—if anyone can imagine the right hon. Gentleman making a stirring speech—at the International Aviation Club at Washington DC on 14 February 1986 said:
"we have to maintain some safeguards in relation to domestic competition. We have got an unbalanced situation. BA represents about three quarters of our industry. We cannot be indifferent if airlines go out of business in the United Kingdom. In view of the inequalities of scale, we have to hold the ring."
I do not know whether the Government have changed their policy in the past few weeks but I imagine that they have. In what direction has their policy changed? Later in his speech to the International Aviation Club the Secretary of State said:
"Both BA and BCal are used to competition. They thrive on it where opportunities are fair and equal, and they back me to the hilt in my campaign to maximise competition and minimise bureaucratic intervention in matters which ought to be the province of commercially orientated airline management."
The thought of anyone backing the right hon. Gentleman is mind boggling, but it is probable, indeed possible, that that happened.
The Secretary of State talked about not being indifferent about airlines going out of business, and I have some questions to ask about that. On 16 July the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster said:
"We have known within the Government about the possibility of this bid for about a week."—[Official Report, 16 July 1987; Vol. 119, c. 1278.]
I am not privy to such discussions, but presumably both British Caledonian and British Airways made representations to the Government and gave some indications of their financial and trading position. I imagine that British Caledonian did that especially in terms of the short-term prospects of returning to profit if it remained independent.
We have been told that if British Caledonian remains independent, its main hope of returning to profit is likely to be largely dependent upon further continuing sales of
612
assets and job losses. If that is the position, were the Government indifferent? If they were so informed, what was their response? Did Ministers say that the only solution was to go ahead with the merger with BA, giving, in effect, a tacit, if not clear, indication of their approval of the merger? Or did they say, in contradiction of what was said by the previous Secretary of State for Transport, the right hon. Member for Cirencester and Tewkesbury, that they were indifferent to what happened? They either had a view on the merger and expressed it to the companies or they did not. What concern did the Minister show for probable job losses? Did Sir Adam Thomson, if he was present at any of these discussions between the Minister and British Caledonian, explain what had brought about the dramatic change in British Caledonian's attitude to British Airways? As early as 9 January 1987 Sir Adam was quoted in the Financial Times as saying:
"British Caledonian and our political supporters will be looking towards the Government's airline competition policy and those who administer it to be the strong unassailable arbiters of true competition and fair play in a British air transport industry where all airlines are privately owned but in which one, by virtue of its historical background, is six times the size of its nearest rival."
Did any Ministers or the staff calculate what the difference in size would be between the proposed merged concern and the nearest United Kingdom rival now? I suspect that when Ministers were told of the proposal they said, in effect, "We cannot do anything for you, British Caledonian. Just let the market take its course." I doubt whether the companies were even told that the Office of Fair Trading was to be asked to consider the matter.
The difficulty that we all have to face is that jobs are threatened and that the survival prospects of a major industrial concern that has enjoyed our support are pretty limited if the merger does not take place. We all know that anything that comes from the Director General of Fair Trading could be subject to ministerial veto. Anyone who has studied the Fair Trading Act, 1973 cannot but come to the conclusion that the matter should be referred to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission. However, when the director general has weighed up all the balances, the fact will remain that serious pressures have been brought about through no fault of the company, caused by changes in the world oil market and events in Libya and elsewhere. The company is in serious difficulties. The Government are therefore likely to veto any proposal from the Director General of Fair Trading that the merger be referred, and it will go ahead. However, for good reasons, I very much doubt that my suspicions will be confirmed this morning.
Real-world economics are making nonsense of the Government's so-called competition policy. The comments by the CAA to the Office of Fair Trading that I have read in today's newspapers clearly indicate that, if the merger goes ahead, all the previous views expressed about airline competition policy will be as naught. The House ought to take a stringent view and examine the concept of safeguarding consumer interests in a new environment.
I am not concerned about the consequences for my own party. Economies of scale are important, and the need to finance costly equipment and highly technical assets drive a company towards such economies. I should like to know the Minister's view on that. What assurances can he give about the ordering of equipment by British Caledonian? If the merger proceeds, will British Caledonian's orders for

613
Airbus also proceed? Has the Minister inquired about that? Those of us with an interest in the employment position are especially anxious.
Above all, we know that markets are not free. I have never been lobbied so much on any issue that has been discussed in the House. That lobbying has come from both the companies and the trade unions, and I do not object to it. However, any idea that matters such as this are open to the free play of market forces is for the birds. These are political issues and, as such, should be subject to political ventilation in the House. The Government's privatisation measures have comprehensively removed vast monopolies, many of them providing public utilities, from the searchlight of public scrutiny. The decision not to intervene, and to veto any proposals from the Director General of Fair Trading, is a political decision.
Let me end on this note: the Government's argument was that we should give the airline back to the people—to the shareholders and the workers. A moment's examination of British Ariways' balance sheet shows how farcical that is. I may not be as good as I used to be at doing my "goesintos", as I used to say when I was at Hills Trust school in Govan, but my information is that British Airways has about 400,000 shareholders, of whom 0·2 per cent. own 50·3 per cent. of the shares. That means that 80 or 90 shareholders own half the company. Whatever decision the Government make, massive monopoly power will be given, in the United Kingdom and elsewhere, to a handful of folk. We are told that that is in the public interest. That is for the birds. No hon. Member on either side of the House who is genuinely worried about the public interest should advocate standing back and letting market forces operate without saying or doing anything about it.
As a lifelong trade unionist, I am 100 per cent. in favour of trying to preserve jobs. However, I am also a consumer, with the national interest to consider. That is especially important to my party. We cannot always yield to producer interests; sometimes we must stand back and ask ourselves, "What power are we giving to these people?" I do not know what my party's policy will be, later, but I know that to continue perpetually with privatisation, while misleading ourselves into believing that there is some aura of democracy about it because the market determines the position, cannot he justified in the Mother of Parliaments.
9.55 am
Mr. Terry Dicks: I am grateful to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and to the hon. Member for Dunfermline, West (Mr. Douglas) for this opportunity to speak. Let me first declare an interest as a shareholder of British Airways, and also as the Member of Parliament representing Heathrow.
I believe that there has been some misunderstanding over the merger. It is intended to give British Airways an opportunity to compete more effectively in the international markets, and, in that sense, the issue is not about domestic competition. However, if the merger is not allowed to go ahead, British Airways will have great difficulty in competing in world markets.
There is no need whatever to refer the merger to either the Office of Fair Trading or the Monopolies and Mergers Commission. The approach by British Airways to British Caledonian was based purely on the financial aspect. It must be borne in mind that British Caledonian was
614
experiencing bad financial problems. It may interest the hon. Member for Dunfermline, West to know that there was some potential for the takeover of British Caledonian by a foreign airline. That would have been the worst thing that could have happened to British aviation. It is far better that the number one airline in the country, and indeed the world, whose planes fly in and out of its hub at Heathrow—the world's biggest international airport—should come together with British Caledonian, with a view to producing, as I am sure it will, a competent and highly effective international airline.
Lord King and Mr. Colin Marshall have done an excellent job at British Airways not only for the aviation industry and the airline but for the workers, many of whom are shareholders and are very happy with the turnaround that those two men have brought about. For politicians, most of whom could not organise a good booze-up in a brewery, to start interfering in a highly complex, technical matter does a great disservice to the aviation industry. The House should mind its own business when it comes to a properly organised merger such as this. We must allow British Airways to get on with the job as it is fit and competent to do.
9.58 am
Mr. Anthony Steen: I thank the hon. Member for Dunfermline, West (Mr. Douglas) for kindly allowing me to intervene for a few minutes in this important debate, and I congratulate him on being fortunate enough to obtain this slot today.
I am entirely opposed to the merger going ahead without reference to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission. I speak for a sizeable number of hon. Members on both sides of the House who feel that there is no point in setting up an Office of Fair Trading and a Monopolies and Mergers Commission if we do not listen to what they say and follow the machinery that we have installed to deal with matters such as that that came before the House and the country a week ago.
I am also critical of the timing of the announcement, one week before the House rises for the summer recess. I suspect that that timing was deliberate, designed to limit discussion and possible opposition. It coincides with the timetable for CAP-500 in 1984, when the debate about competition in civil aviation raged for over a week just before the House rose. The result was disastrous. The Government's decision in 1984 has resulted in this proposed merger.
British Airways has put an ultimatum before the country. It says that if it is not allowed to take over British Caledonian immediately, without reference to the public watchdog, the company will go bust and its offer will lapse. Let me examine its offer. It is three times the asset value of British Caledonian. Who pays three times the market value for any company? Only those who want a monopoly and are prepared to pay more than anyone else. British Airways wants a monopoly in the civil aviation industry.
It is not just a question of having a monopoly stake in the civil aviation industry. I am told that the chairman of British Caledonian will receive a golden handshake of between £2·5 million and £3 million and that the institutional investors stand to gain £100 million. Are we prepared to allow a merger that will benefit the chairman of British Caledonian and the institutional investors? It

615
would be good for them, but it would be bad for the travelling public and for prices. It would also be bad for competition and for the independent airlines.
Lord King says that he welcomes competition, but with over 91 per cent. of all the international routes he knows that nobody will be able to compete with him. He says that he welcomes competition at Gatwick and Heathrow. Of course he does. He knows that he controls the critical peak hour slots at both Heathrow and Gatwick. The independent airlines can fly into Gatwick and Heathrow only outside peak times.
The European Commission has said that it is to take action to deal with anti-competition practices in aviation. If British Airways merges with British Caledonian, it will make our demands about anti-competitive practices a sick joke. It is feared that British Caledonian will be bought by a foreign airline, but that cannot happen. Because of the Civil Aviation Act 1982, only a 49 per cent interest can be bought by a foreign airline.
British Caledonian could be perfectly profitable if it were properly run, under new management. If inefficiency could be eliminated, because of the under-utilisation of aeroplanes and buildings, if trade union dominance could be brought under control and if a realistic price were to be paid for it—not £230 million but £80 million or £90 million—it could be competitive again and become a second force in this country.
The new conglomerate of British Airways and British Caledonian would dominate both international routes and domestic services. It has a stake in some of the feeder airlines, such as Brymon, it has dominance over Stolport and it dominates the computer and ramp handling networks. The civil aviation industry will go rapidly into decline if a massive conglomerate runs our civil aviation industry.
As for the mega-carrier argument, the only mega-carriers are in the United States. Cathay Pacific and Singapore Airlines, the most successful airlines, are roughly the same size as British Airways. This matter must go before the Monopolies and Mergers Commission. If it does not, our civil aviation industry will be damaged.
10.4 am
Sir Peter Emery: I congratulate the hon. Member for Dunfermline, West (Mr. Douglas) on introducing this debate. What he said made a great deal of sense and it ought to be considered by my hon. Friend the Minister. I have three questions to put to him. Do the Government intend to comply with the provisions of the Monopolies and Mergers Act 1965? Do they not accept that, according to the Act, an organisation that carries 90 per cent. of the passengers, over 85 per cent. of the freight and over 84 per cent. of the royal mail must be judged to be a monopoly? If he does, should not the matter go before the Monopolies and Mergers Commission?
My hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (Mr. Dicks) said that it is not for politicians to interfere in commercial matters, but if, as the hon. Member for Dunfermline, West suggested, Lord King is about to run an omnibus through the law of the land that should not be allowed to happen. If this merger goes through, it will tear in half the Conservative party's policy on which I
616
fought the last general election. We made it clear that our privatisation policy would continue, but if this merger is allowed to take place, that policy will be torn in half.
A large part of the argument has centred around the mega-carriers, but the mega-carrier business is nearly always internal business. Outside America or Japan, British Airways is as big as any airline and can compete effectively. It does not need British Caledonian.
I greatly admire what Sir Adam Thomson has done at British Caledonian. I hope that British Caledonian will be allowed to compete. It has made British Airways great. British Airways needs competition. Competition is what the Conservative party has always stood for. I hope that it will continue to follow that policy.
10.7 am
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Mr. John Butcher): I congratulate the hon. Member for Dunfermline, West (Mr. Douglas) on raising such a topical matter for debate. The House should ventilate clearly its views on competition policy and the implications of the proposed merger as they affect that policy.
I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (Mr. Dicks) for his speech. He has a reputation for tenaciously defending his constituents' interests. He, with the hon. Member for Dunfermline, West, is interested in creating and preserving jobs. My hon. Friend the Member for South Hams (Mr. Steen) adopts a rigorous approach. He understands that it is excruciatingly difficult for Ministers at the Dispatch Box, faced with such a reference, either publicly to endorse or publicly to denounce the views that he has expressed. Such a discussion would be more appropriate, perhaps, in the Tea Room. My hon. Friend the Member for Honiton (Sir P. Emery) also referred to fundamental issues with which I shall try to deal.
I have listened with great interest to the variety of opinions expressed. Those who are against a merger support a reference to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission. The House will understand why I must refrain from addressing the detail of the arguments in this case. As my right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster told the House in response to a question last Thursday from the hon. Member for Sedgefield (Mr. Blair), the Director General of Fair Trading plays an important advisory role in merger cases such as this. My right hon. and noble Friend the Secretary of State is awaiting the director general's advice on whether this case should be referred to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission for further investigation, and it would therefore not be right for me to prejudge any advice that he may give by expressing any views about the merits or otherwise of the proposed merger at this stage. I am, however, sure that the director general will take into account the views that hon. Members have expressed in the debate. Of course, any hon. Member is entirely free to make such points directly to the director general's office, but I have no doubt that the director general will closely examine the Hansard report of the debate.
Mr. Steen: Will the Minister send it to him?
Mr. Butcher: In response to my hon. Friend's sotto voce intervention, I shall indeed be the postman in that regard. I draw his attention to the comments already made.

617
In the time available to me it might be helpful if I outline to hon. Members the statutory procedures that are in place for considering mergers and merger proposals and the criteria that are taken into account in examining their actual or likely effect.
The Fair Trading Act 1973 established a three-stage procedure for the scrutiny of mergers. The first stage involves the Director General of Fair Trading and his office. The director general has a duty under the Act among other things to keep himself informed about merger situations qualifying for investigation and to advise my right hon. and noble Friend the Secretary of State whether they should be referred to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission. But, as hon. Members have said, my right hon. and noble Friend takes the decision whether to refer a merger and his consideration of the issues involved forms the second stage in the process. The Secretary of State is not bound by the advice that he receives from the director general; he has discretion whether to refer a merger, although clearly, in making his decision, he will attach considerable weight to the advice that he receives from the director general.
What, then, are the factors that the Director General of Fair Trading and my right hon. and noble Friend take into account in considering whether a reference to the MMC would he appropriate? I refer to the issues that have been raised by the hon. Member for Dunfermline, West and my hon. Friend the Member for Honiton. Section 84—it is still current and is still being applied in policy terms — of the Fair Trading Act stipulates that, in determining whether a merger may be expected to operate against the public interest, the Monopolies and Mergers Commission shall take into account all matters that appear to it in the particular circumstances to be relevant, including specific factors such as the desirability of maintaining and promoting competition, the interests of consumers, the effect of a merger on prices and technical and product development, the entry of new competitors into a market, employment, and export competitiveness. The public interest is more or less thus defined and its criterion is thus cast wide.
Mr. Douglas: Will the Minister assure me that he will write to me about the Airbus matter?
Mr. Butcher: I shall refer to that in a moment.
The director general therefore turns his attention to all aspects of a merger that may have a bearing on the public interest, and my right hon. and noble Friend will also take into account all relevant factors in reaching his decision.
Our policy on references to the commission, however, remains that announced by my right hon. Friend the then Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, the right hon. Member for Chingford (Mr. Tebbit), in July 1984, that
618
merger references would be made primarily on grounds of competition, having regard to the international context. That reflects our belief that competition encourages productive efficiency, increases consumer choice and ensures that the customer—whether industry or the man in the street—gets value for money. But that does not mean that the director general and my right hon. arid noble Friend do not look at non-competition aspects of mergers or merger proposals. Nor does it mean that our policy is never to make references on grounds other than competition. Although such cases have been the exception rather than the rule, there are examples, notably Elders IXL's bid for Allied Lyons, which was referred in 1985 on grounds of the "leveraged" financing of the proposal.
There is then the question of what happens when my right hon. and noble Friend decides whether to refer a merger to the commission. If his decision is that it should not be referred——
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Miss Betty Boothroyd): Order. I have to remind the Minister it is now 10·15. Would he bring his remarks to a very swift close?
Mr. Butcher: Without your guidance, Madam 'Deputy Speaker, I had assumed that I had a further six minutes to reply to the matters that have been raised.
Sir Peter Emery: On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. We are on the Adjournment debate. In an Adjournment debate, the timing factors are agreed as a matter of convenience, not absolute. As we lost some time at the start of the debate—the matter is of national importance — I ask the House to agree that the Minister's speech should continue for another five or six minutes.
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. It is not for the House or for me to give away other Members' time. These Adjournment debates are strictly timed. I can be lenient to the extent of giving the Minister an extra minute to wind up. That is why I gave him a warning that I would give him precisely that minute.
Mr. Butcher: I am grateful to you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am sure that the House welcomes your ruling on the matter.
We have not laid down any stipulation about whether the current pattern of ordering should continue. Of course, that is a downstream employment issue that will have to be considered. I reassure the House that that ostensibly side issue of major importance will be borne in mind, I assume, by the director general and my right hon. Friend.
The question——
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Mr. Andrew MacKay.

Central Berkshire
10.17 am
Mr. Andrew MacKay; I welcome my hon. Friend the new Under-Secretary of State to the debate. I am only saddened by the fact that the first time that she and I are to have an exchange across the Floor of the House will not be a more pleasant occasion. This is the only time when I am in fundamental disagreement with the policies of a Government whom I robustly support. My hon. Friend's Department and her colleagues have made several errors of judgment recently.
I shall refer to the history of the problem of excessive development in central Berkshire, raise three specific constituency points and conclude by explaining that the problem is not parochial or a local issue, but one of national importance that affects other Government policies. I stress that feelings are running extremely high throughout central Berkshire, not just in my constituency, but in those of my hon. Friends the Members for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood), who hopes to catch your eye shortly, Madam Deputy Speaker, and for Reading, East (Sir G. Vaughan), who would have liked to be present today and wishes to be associated with my remarks.
I make it abundantly clear that we are not Luddite and opposed to any development in our area. We understand that there must be development and that life must go on. We are not trying to protect our own interests and ignore the national interest. However, in recent years we have been positively inundated with new housing developments. The previous Secretary of State for the Environment, Mr. Patrick Jenkin, was good enough to take up my request to fly over central Berkshire in a helicopter. He was horrified by what he saw—a complete urban sprawl developing from Greater London and Slough throughout central Berkshire and heading towards Reading and Swindon.
We have a new town at Bracknell. I do not think that it is unfair and unbiased of me to say that it is the most successful of our new towns. However, if we are not careful it will expand into many delightful rural villages, such as Warfield, Binfield and Winkfield Row, and on into the neighbouring constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham. The people who live in the town of Bracknell or in those village communities will have little green space and will be living, as I have said, in a total urban sprawl.
I refer now to our specific complaints. We are in the process of preparing the central Berkshire structure plan. My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State will be aware that I gave evidence a year ago this month to her inspector and said that I believed we should have a zero option on the increase of development in the structure plan. Twelve months have now passed, but the structure plan is not yet available in its final form. We are led to believe that it will appear fairly shortly. We have had discussions with my hon. Friend's colleagues on this point and I have no wish to dwell on that now. However, we were amazed to find that two outstanding appeals in my constituency, one in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham and another in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Reading, East, had been recently allowed.
I shall refer only to the two appeals that affect my constituency, one on the Carnation Nurseries site at Winkfield and the second at Wicks Green in the village of
620
Binfield. Apart from thinking that it is fundamentally wrong to change the nature of those villages by allowing such massive expansion, I was appalled to learn that the appeals were allowed by the Secretary of State, when we all know that the structure plan is pending and that it will be published sooner rather than later. It seems totally irresponsible to have allowed those appeals when neither the developers, my constituents nor myself have any idea of what the Secretary of State will think proper for the size of future developments in central Berkshire. I believe that the right policy would have been not to allow those appeals, but to await the results of the structure plan.
The granting of those appeals was wrong because, as I have said, they have fundamentally changed the nature of the villages concerned. They are destroying some of the few remaining green field sites in central Berkshire and putting the most unreasonable stresses on roads, schools, hospitals and other services. It is all very well for the developers and for the Secretary of State to go ahead with such developments, but nobody helps us to improve the roads or to increase the number of hospitals or schools—far from it. We are left with the problem and it is my constituents, not the Secretary of State, the inspectors or the developers, who suffer accordingly.
More specifically, I ask my hon. Friend whether she is aware that, along with my constituents, my district council at Bracknell and all my parish councillors, I favour the zero option in the structure plan. Assuming that we are not successful in the zero option, can we presume that the houses that the Secretary of State has allowed to be built at Wicks Green and Carnation Nurseries and on the two sites in the Wokingham district council area will be included in any number of houses that is mentioned in the structure plan? The Secretary of State would add insult to injury if we found that not only had those two appeals been granted, but that we were asked for additional houses in the structure plan because the houses allowed under the appeals could not he included.
I refer now to an area which may well be sub judice, so I shall be careful about what I say. I appreciate that my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State will be unable to respond. We are all aware that other appeals are pending. I ask my hon. Friend to request the Secretary of State to ensure that those appeals are disallowed, at least pending the publication of the structure plan so that at last note will be taken of local opinion, voiced not only by hon. Members but by every elected representative in Berkshire.
I give a warning, because I wonder why some of my councillors bother to stand for election. What is the point of serving on a planning committee if every time that one makes a decision that does not meet with the full satisfaction of the developers the developers immediately go to appeal and all too often the appeals are allowed? Quite frankly, I wonder whether I should advise Bracknell district council, the royal borough of Windsor and my parish councils that in the interests of my ratepayers, and to save some money, they should cut the number of their planning officials and abolish their planning committees.
There seems no purpose in electing local people to represent our views on planning, only to have them constantly overruled by somebody who has not even set foot in the area and who has no knowledge of local problems. That is deeply frustrating and insulting to those who, for no financial reward, give up a great deal of their time to serve the community on parish, district, borough and county councils. I want to make it absolutely clear to

621
the House that we are undermining local government by riding rough shod over it and allowing planning by appeal. That is immensely damaging and should stop as soon as possible.
I turn now to the national issues. I strongly support the Government's policy of rejuvenating the inner cities. At 3 o'clock in the morning, after our famous and magnificent election victory, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister stood on the steps of central office and said that there was much work to be done and that her priority was the inner cities. I suggest that my right hon. Friend's priority is being thwarted by Ministers at the Department of the Environment.
At one time in my earlier career I was a director of our family housebuilding business, so I know a little about development. l advise my hon. Friend that if a developer has a choice between building on a green field site in Berkshire or elsewhere, or reclaiming some difficult inner-city site, he will opt — naturally and rightly—for the shire county green field site. He is right to do so because he must think of his shareholders, employees and himself. My criticism is not of the developers, but of the Secretary of State and the Ministers who have bent over backwards to help the developers. If we are successfully to rejuvenate the inner cities, and to do so with the help of the private sector, as the Government rightly want, we must discourage unreasonable and unnecessary development in the shire counties. If we do not do so, we shall not succeed in the inner cities.
Some people suggest that we have a north-south divide. I do not believe that, and I do not want to rehearse the arguments as to why I do not believe it. But, and a big hut, I have no real unemployment in my constituency, nor does my hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham. My knuckles are regularly rapped by employers who say to me, "I have still shortages. How do I find cleaners, computer operators and a thousand other employees?" If we encourage development in the south-east, we shall discourage it in regions where there is genuine unemployment. It is in the national interest that unemployment is fought, but there is no fight in my area.
One can go to a jobcentre in Bracknell and find 400 vacancies at any one time. I do not buy the argument that if multinationals or small companies cannot set up in Thames valley they will immediately leave for the continent. They will go willingly to the midlands, the north, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, provided they are discouraged from coming to Thames valley and are told by the local authority that there is no room for expansion. They will then move to other areas, where house prices are cheaper, the environment has not been as spoilt as ours has been in recent years by these appeals being allowed, and where there is a plentiful supply of skilled, semi-skilled and unskilled labour. That is why we should oppose excessive development.
We referred to five years' supply of land. In allowing the two appeals to which I have referred and, I suspect, my hon. Friend's case, the reason given was that we perhaps did not have five years' supply of land in Bracknell or Wokingham. What is five years' supply of land? How long is a length of string? I do not know. The implication is that we must always have a five years' supply of building land to develop. When Carnation Nurseries is developed, some other plot must be produced to replace it, and on we go.
622
The logical conclusion must be that every last piece of land will get used. When we have a complete concrete jungle, I am not sure what we do about it.
I cannot believe that we can continue to say, "Every area of so-called growth in the south-east must have a five-year supply of land." whether it be for 5,000 or 500 houses. I do not believe that it is right or proper to carry on building across our environment so that there is no open space and the communities, villages and towns that I represent are wholly destroyed.
I hope that the Minister will pass to the Secretary of State and the Minister for Housing and Planning the grievous concerns of my constituents. I hope she will make it abundantly clear that we are worried, not just for ourselves, our children and grandchildren, but because Government policies to tackle unemployment and to rejuvenate the inner cities will not and cannot work while this crass stupidity continues to allow appeals on the development of green field sites in central Berkshire.
10.33 am
Mr. John Redwood: I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Berkshire, East (Mr. MacKay) for allowing me time in this important debate and for the forthright, clear way in which he expressed our joint anxieties. The anxieties of Wokingham are very much those of Bracknell, but while we like and admire Bracknell, we do not wish to grow closer by physical development. A green wedge is needed between settlements, otherwise the danger of growing urban sprawl from London to well beyond Reading will arise. That will be the direct result of the policies pursued by those who determine appeals in the Department of the Environment.
Wokingham district has not been unco-operative in recent years and in the past six years we have seen some 10,000 new houses constructed. That is a 27 per cent. increase in the housing stock on 1981. It is a massive development on a huge scale and has completely changed the nature of many parts of the rural Wokingham district. The district has not resisted development on every site or every opportunity for new housing. The case recently determined against the district on appeal illustrates how dangerous and damaging it can be for appeals against the council to be successful when it has pursued a sensible policy.
The Keep Hatch development which is now to go ahead because of appeal, for example, was one of the two sites examined by the district council. It opted reluctantly, and a little against its will, to allow development at Glebelands. It did so in the belief that some new houses had to go somewhere; that it was best able to make the decision locally, although it was wildly unpopular for it to do so; and that it would be backed up by the Department of the Environment seeing the importance of retaining the Keep Hatch site safe and as part of the important green barrier between Wokingham and Bracknell.
What was the point of the council making that difficult decision and allowing some houses to be built on a slightly less sensitive site when all its plans were blown sky-high by an appeal decision, which was bad planning and bad politics? The natural reaction of my district councillors in Wokingham must be to say that in future they will not be prepared to identify sites because, if they identify sites arid make careful decisions between sites, rejecting some as

623
being wholly unsuitable, it is possible that on appeal the developers will succeed because of Department of the Environment decisions.
As my hon. Friend said, this is important because it is of major and national significance. By allowing the recent rate of growth in Wokingham without making resources or plans available for improving local health services, schools and the road network, grave problems are produced locally. At the same time pitiful problems of decline are experienced in our inner urban areas from which people are busily migrating. We then reach the ridiculous position where there is insufficient hospital and school accommodation in the high-growth areas. We then incur the financial and political costs of closing schools, hospitals or wards of hospitals in inner London and even in urban centres elsewhere in the south-east. This is not to mention the north and the north-west which desperately need jobs, enterprise and houses and already have the public facilities, which, however, are under pressure because thousands of people are decamping to the south-east because of the planning policy being pursued.
A district council faces an additional difficulty if a developer is given permission on appeal when the district has not wished to see the development take place. Its bargaining power to influence the nature and style of the development and to enjoy some of the benefits which would accrue to the developer from the profits of that development is lost. How can a local council demand a reasonable provision of infrastructure — shops, roads and other facilities — if planning permission has been given on appeal without any thought to the gain that will be made by the developer or the way in which some of that gain could be enjoyed by the local authority and the local community? One of the great advantages of allowing sensible local authorities to make decent decisions for their community is that they take all such factors into account.
Local authorities can strike a deal with the developer, if development must go ahead, that ensures that some of that gain can be used for the provision of infrastructure and those services that the development clearly requires. We are in danger of losing all that bargaining power if we reach the stage where planning decisions are made on appeal and not where they should be made, in the elected chambers of local authorities.
I believe that there is a distinction between planning for green field sites and planning for urban or rundown areas. I find it curious, in Berkshire, for example, that the population of Reading town is falling and yet my hon. Friend the Member for Reading, East (Sir G. Vaughan) has discovered that planning permissions are granted on appeal for the rural areas of his constituency. It seems strange indeed that, in the middle of the fastest growing and one of the most economically successful areas of the country, the prime town is still experiencing net migration while all the rural areas are in danger of being despoiled.
I would like to add my voice to that of my hon. Friend the Member for Berkshire, East in asking the Minister and the Ministry to take on board a few specific points. When appeals come up in the future on green field sites, will the Ministry bear in mind that they are different in kind from the appeals of restrictive local councils in urban areas, trying to stop prosperity coming back to derelict areas? Therefore, the Ministry should take a much harder view of the appellant's case and more often than not it should
624
presume — indeed, in every case in areas such as Wokingham—in favour of the local council that has made a sensible decision about those green field sites. It is important that the number of houses that have now been granted against us on the Keep Hatch site should be reduced in any future target that may be imposed or voted upon us for development under the new structure plan. It is important that the new structure plan is brought in quickly; I would like to see the Ministry make rapid progress on that. I urge that the structure plan takes into account the massive development that has already taken place. There is a need for a period of quiet and calm to shake down those developments to ensure that local services are adequate for the job that they now must perform before major new expansion is embarked upon.
I should like to think that the Ministry will also take into account the fact that the local council has done a good job by the local community and has not always taken the easy option. The Ministry, with its responsibilities throughout local government, should be able to distinguish between pure Luddites and councils that are in difficult circumstances but are doing a good job and take into account the views of their local area.
I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I do not wish to constrain the Minister's time because there are many important points that we would like my hon. Friend to answer. Above all, we want the outrageous level of growth checked and we want a better deal for central Berkshire.
10.43 am
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Mrs. Marion Roe): I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Berkshire, East (Mr. MacKay) for his initial kind remarks and I am grateful to him for raising the subject of development in Berkshire, which I know is a matter of great concern to all the other hon. Members in that county and to a great many people who live there.
My Department is fully aware of the anxieties felt in Berkshire about the impact that development, particularly housing development, has had on the strains put upon roads, schools and hospitals and those caused through the loss of the countryside. Berkshire Members have been assiduous through deputations to successive Secretaries of State, and indeed in previous Adjournment debates in 1983 and 1985, in ensuring that we are in no doubt of the strength of local feeling about those matters.
Of course, we fully recognise the very significant expansion that has taken place in Berkshire, particularly in central Berkshire. The county has seen the successful development of Bracknell new town and the emergence of Reading as a major business centre. The attractions of the county to developers are only too obvious; proximity to Heathrow, the M25 and the M4 corridors and not least the quality of the environment that has justified the county being called "Beautiful Berkshire".
Not all the factors promoting development are necessarily disadvantageous. They have contributed significantly to the growth of a strong, active, buoyant economy, with one of the lowest rates of unemployment in the country. Berkshire is acknowledged as a centre for high technology development with an international reputation that attracts inward investment to this country. The nation as a whole has reason to be grateful for the contribution that business in Berkshire is making to the regeneration of the national economy. However, there is

625
a price to pay for economic success, in the effect that the development needed to support the growth of business, industry and population must have on the environment and character of the area.
There is a need to take stock regularly to ensure that the pace of development does not exceed the capacity of the area to absorb it without damage or without creating serious imbalances between the provision of employment and housing and the provision of services. I also take my hon. Friend's point that we need to look carefully at the possible consequences for other less advantaged areas of the concentration of economic activity in counties such as Berkshire.
When my hon. Friend raised the question of development in Berkshire in the House in December 1983 he was advised that the proper forum for consideration of the future levels of development in the county was the then impending review of the Berkshire structure plans. Since that time the county council has submitted proposals for a replacement structure plan for the whole county to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and that is now under consideration.
The county's objective, set out in the plan, is to secure as sharp a decrease as possible in housebuilding rates. I need not tell my hon. Friends how much interest these proposals have raised. My hon Friend the Member for Berkshire, East and his colleagues the hon. Members for Newbury (Mr. McNair-Wilson) and Reading, East (Sir G. Vaughan) attended and spoke eloquently in support of the county council at the examination in public, held in July last year. Clearly, that demonstrates how important this issue is.
My right hon. Friend and I are very much aware of the need to reach decisions soon about future development in Berkshire. The existing structure plans are out of date and do not provide a satisfactory basis for controlling the levels of housing and employment development. The report of the panel that conducted the examination in public has taken longer than we had hoped. However, as soon as its report is received we shall move as quickly as we can to publish any modifications to the county council's proposals. I can assure my hon. Friends that I am anxious that there should he clear and sound planning policies worked out for Berkshire to assist in proper planning control.
Two particular concerns have emerged from this debate: the recent appeals decisions which have been issued allowing housing development in central Berkshire; and the suggestion that allowing development in Berkshire is inconsistent with the Government's policies for regeneration of the inner cities. I will take the appeals first.
My hon. Friends will be aware that we are still within the period when decisions on two appeals could be subject to legal challenge. My comments must take that into account. I should also say that in two appeals — Shipnell's farm and Wicks Green, Binfield — there has not been a final decision. The appeals have been referred back for consideration of agreements on various matters.
I think a main concern is that we have actually dealt with those appeals while the whole question of future housing levels has yet to be decided in the structure plan. Certainly the decisions would be easier if the replacement structure plan had been approved. However, it would he quite unreasonable to freeze decisions on all appeals during the process of reviewing the structure plan.
626
My right hon. Friend has a duty to consider planning appeals which are made to him, and he must do this having regard to all the relevant considerations——
Mr. Andrew MacKay: Will my hon. Friend give way?
Mrs. Roe: I have a great deal to cover, and I hope that my hon. Friend will allow me to complete it. If I have not covered any points, I will issue a follow-up letter.
Mr. MacKay: May I make a brief intervention?
Mrs. Roe: Perhaps later. May I get on now?
As I said, my right hon. Friend must have regard to all the relevant considerations, which will include the fact that there are structure plan proposals. Action may he taken against him in the courts if he unreasonably delays decisions on appeals.
In deciding the appeals in question my right hon. Friend was aware of the local view that there has been excessive development in central Berkshire. I may say, however, that the county council is not proposing that there should be no further housing development in the county. The number of houses involved in these appeal decisions is not, in our view, inconsistent with, or a threat to, the total housing provision proposed by the county council.
The difficulty, which I appreciate, is that the development is being allowed in areas not favoured by the local planning authorities, but my right hon. Friend has had to have regard to the inspector's conclusions about the housing land supply and the suitability of the sites for housing. What I can make clear, which I hope will be helpful to my hon. Friends, is that any houses which are allowed on appeal in the period before a replacement structure plan is approved will count towards whatever total housing provision is decided in the plan and will not be additional to it.
My hon. Friend the Member for Berkshire, East mentioned the need for a five-year supply of land. I assure him that the Department of the Environment does not intend an unlimited continuous supply of land for housing. The size of the five-year supply is limited by the total housing provision set in the structure plan.
My hon. Friend also mentioned the north-south divide. It is not as simplistic as north versus south; rather it is the inner cities in the north, with Labour councils, which have problems. Indeed, in the north there are areas of prosperity where the quality of life is similar to that in Berkshire.
On the other question regarding our policies for the inner cities, I recognise my hon. Friend's concern that development allowed in Berkshire may be denying deprived areas the opportunity of attracting that development. There is no convincing evidence that restraint of development in economically attractive areas encourages investment in less attractive ones. The danger is that the investment may be lost to this country altogether. Our policy is aimed at securing new investment in the inner cities, not in preventing investment in areas such as Berkshire. The economic success of Berkshire is important to the country in attracting investment, in encouraging enterprise and in helping to provide the national resources which will enable initiatives to be made to help other areas. We need to be careful not to sacrifice that achievement.
I do not agree that there is a conflict between our policies on inner cities and allowing housing development

627
elsewhere in the country. We would, of course, hope that developers would make use of sites in inner-city areas where those sites are available. Our registers of unused and underused publicly owned land show that there are some 15,000 acres of such land in London and the south-east: almost half of this land has been assessed as having a medium to high development potential.
We make derelict land grant available to both the public and private sectors to encourage the development of derelict or unused land in urban areas, thus relieving pressure on green field sites. This year, about £3·6 million has been set aside for reclamation in south-east England, including London and East Anglia.
A considerable amount of housebuilding has been taking place in London docklands. By 31 March 1987, 4,250 homes had been completed on sites prepared by the London Docklands Development Corporation, more than half of which were priced at or under £40,000. About 3,350 private homes are currently under construction on Docklands Development Corporation sites, and 2,350 have been built on non-development corporation sites, with about 2,050 under construction. The totals are 6,600 homes completed and 5,400 homes under construction.
The ordnance survey record of land use changes in 1986 shows that, nationally, 46 per cent. of land developed for residential use was previously developed or was vacant land in built-up areas. In the south-east, this proportion was 54 per cent. while in Greater London it reached 86 per cent. These figures illustrate the extent to which housing demand can be met within existing urban areas. I assure my hon. Friends of the strength of the Government's commitment towards the regeneration of the inner cities and making the best use of urban land.
Our achievements in the inner cities, and by way of the use of urban land and re-use of derelict land, will not, by themselves, provide adequate land to meet the housing and other development needs of the existing populations of counties in the south-east; and most projections show that that population will continue to grow. Other land will have to be found, but our firm view is that this can be achieved without serious damage to important environmental interests. This was explained in the regional strategic guidance set out in my right hon. Friend's letter of 19 June 1986 to the chairman of the south-east regional planning authorities, Lord Sandford.
Mr. Redwood: Is my hon. Friend aware that the current rate of development in London is still insufficient to prevent a net migration? Is she aware that she is agreeing with my hon. Friend the Member for Berkshire, East (Mr.
628
MacKay) and me in saying that more can and should be done in the cities? We are looking for more urgency to get those thousands of acres in inner London back into housing use.
Mrs. Roe: That point has already been noted by my Department and by others involved in housing, as I am sure my hon. Friend is aware.
The key to resolving the planning problems faced in central Berkshire is to complete the process of revising the structure plan, and I have already said that we shall do all that we can to speed this up. My hon. Friends may rest assured that all the representations that have been made will be most carefully considered, as will the panel's report and recommendations. When my right hon. Friend's modifications to the plan are published there will, of course, be an opportunity for comment on the modifications.
Mr. Andrew MacKay: Appeals are pending on which decisions might have to be made before the structure plan modifications are announced by the Secretary of State, and my hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood) and I agree with the Minister that it would be unreasonable for everyone concerned if we delayed those appeals. We say that they should not be allowed pending the publication of the structure plan amendments. That is a very different matter, and that is what I want my hon. Friend to take on board.
Mrs. Roe: I have noted my hon. Friend's point carefully, but he will understand my position and the fact that I am unable to comment further.
The matters which have been raised in this debate are important. We fully understand the pressure for development in Berkshire in those areas outside the green belt and the areas of outstanding natural beauty. The essential task now is to set the right levels for future rates of development which are best for all the interests in the county.
The difficulties being experienced in the administration of planning control in central Berkshire have been exacerbated by the length of the structure plan process. The development plan system is undoubtedly too cumbersome. It engages too many resources and is too slow both in the preparation and approval of plans. My right hon. Friend has published proposals in a Green Paper for a thorough revision of the system, and I am pleased to say that the response has shown general agreement that the system needs changing. I am sure that a more responsive development plan system would have gone a long way to avoiding the sort of problems now affecting Berkshire.

Chile
10.59 am
Mr. Pat Wall: I understand that on Monday 13 July Admiral Toribio Merino visited the Foreign Office and met the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Enfield, North (Mr. Eggar). Admiral Merino—so I understand—flew into London in semi-secrecy via Israel, a route previously taken by Colonel Oliver North. While I have no wish at this stage to add to the controversy that is raging on both sides of the Atlantic about covert activity, I wonder whether these military gentlemen always use the same travel agency.
It is hardly surprising that the Foreign Office has not sought publicity about the visit of a founder member of the Chilean junta, a man who was directly involved in the disappearance of hundreds of civilians whose whereabouts are unknown to this day. He was a Minister who put his warships at the disposal of the junta as prison and torture ships for Chilean civilians. His crimes were on a par with those committed by Klaus Barbie, whose trial was coming to a conclusion when Admiral Merino visited Britain.
A Conservative Government justified the Falklands war on the ground that it was a war for democracy against the Argentinian junta of General Galtieri. That Conservative Government supplied arms to the Argentine dictatorship — arms that were eventually used against British forces in the Falklands. This Government, like previous Conservative Governments, continue to supply arms to the bloodstained dictatorship in Chile. The Government may wish to keep quiet about their relations with Chile, but I believe that the House is entitled to a full account of recent discussions with leading members of the junta; and the nation, too, is entitled to that information.
First, did the discussions with Admiral Merino concern the supply of arms to Chile? I suspect that the answer will be no, but I shall continue to harbour doubts. If arms were not discussed last week, they certainly must have been at the beginning of June, when General Fernando Mathei, commander-in-chief of the Chilean air force, visited Britain. His visit was made in a mad rush, because of the possibility of the return of a Labour Government and the immediate cessation of arms sales to Chile—just as the American Congress is forbidding its Government to sell arms to Chile; just as Felipe Gonzalez, the Spanish Prime Minister, has vetoed further arms sales to Chile; just as President Mitterrand of France is opposed to arms sales to Chile; just as Italy, which has not replaced the ambassador that it withdrew from Santiago in 1973, will not supply arms to Chile.
What is the current state of arms sales to Chile from Britain? Has the destroyer Fife now joined the three other county class destroyers in service with the Chilean navy? When HMS Glamorgan was handed over in Portsmouth last year, it was reported that that gave rise to a brief mutiny among the Chilean sailors. Do the Government have plans to sell military aircraft to Chile to replace its aging fleet of Hawker Hunters?
In 1973 the Chilean military, with the aid of international big business and the CIA, overthrew a democratically elected Socialist Government. Thirty thousand people were slaughtered. Thousands were imprisoned and tortured. Trades unions and workers parties were banned, democratic rights were abolished,
630
and the most unspeakable atrocities were conducted in the Santiago football stadium. The junta had its friends in the Conservative party and in the press.
The Times, which was nominally "The Thunderer" in those days—not the "Murdoch Murmurer"—welcomed the overthrow of the Allende Government. Chile was to be a capitalist paradise with no workers parties, no meaningful trade unions and a free market economy. Milton Friedman and his Chicago school of gangsters—or rather, economists — were given free reign. The spiritual and economic gurus of Thatcherite economics provided a temporary paradise for sections of big business — especially the multinationals. Within a short time, that led to the virtual bankruptcy of the Chilean economy and appalling hardship, not only for the mass of working people, but for large sections of the middle class.
According to official figures, unemployment in Chile is 18 per cent., but according to most foreign observers it is really more like 30 per cent. In addition, about 20 per cent. of the population obtain seasonal work only. For those in work, the average working day is 12 hours. No national factory regulations or safety conditions exist. Safety equipment such as boots, helmets and ear muffs is not supplied, and workers are forced to pay for such equipment themselves. It is estimated that at least 30 per cent. of the population are undernourished. On one reckoning, it is thought that a healthy diet in Chile for a family of five for a month would cost the equivalent of £120.
Taking an example that was featured in the national press of one workers' district in Santiago, the average family income is £29 a month, but only fewer than one quarter of the people there have any kind of job. There are also reports of many workers' districts and shanty towns around the major towns where, in order to survive, communal kitchens are organised to ensure that the population manage to have at least one meal a day. That does not include weekends, when most families exist on only tea and biscuits. One in three children in Chile are anaemic due to the poor diet, yet 30 per cent. of doctors are unemployed.
As a result of the continuing repression and worsening living standards, there has been an upsurge of open opposition to the dictatorship of the junta in the past few years. Strikes by re-emerging trade unions have multiplied, as have demonstrations in all the major urban areas. Even during the Pope's visit to Chile the vast religious rallies became anti-junta events, with continual chants of "Its going to fall," and pitched battles between youth and the police. Many hon. Members will have seen the brutality and the use of tear gas by the police during the Pope's visit. Large sections of the middle class now openly defy the regime in Chile — including sections of that class that helped to bring Pinochet to power in 1973. Teachers and doctors have held strikes, and bus owners and lorry drivers who supported Pinochet in 1973 have held demonstrations against the regime.
As ever, the answer from the junta has been yet more cruelty and repression. Hugo Pavez, a defence lawyer representing political prisoners in Santiago central goal, recently reported:
"Prisoners have been subjected not only to electricity, simulated shootings and being semi-drowned in excrement, but in at least one case a prisoner was hung up for days and beaten until his nose and ears burst."

631
There have been cases of rats being put inside prisoners' clothing and in one case inside a prisoner's mouth.
It is no wonder that reports in the serious Western press estimate that 85 per cent. of the population oppose the idea of General Pinochet standing as sole candidate for president in 1989. Admiral Merino and General Matthei, both of whom visited Britain this year, have called for Pinochet to stand down to be replaced by a right of centre civilian candidate, and that view has been echoed by police chief Rodolfo Stange, who has also visited Europe recently. Was the issue of Pinochet's replacement raised in discussions at the Foreign Office with Admiral Merino and/or General Matthei? The constant visits of senior members of the junta to Western capitals seems to imply that they are seeking a way to elbow Pinochet aside as the most openly hated representative of the junta and thus to head off the growing prospect of the regime being overthrown — a partial liberalisation of the regime to ensure business as usual for the multinational companies.
The Chilean people can have no illusions that reformed generals or Christian Democratic politicians who supported the junta in 1973 have any real desire to reintroduce genuine elections and democratic rights in Chile. A liberalised regime might temporarily suspend the worst of the repression, but it can never solve the problems of hunger, unemployment and exploitation for the mass of the people of Chile. I believe that the lessons of the past 14 years have been learnt and that the re-emerging workers' movement will pull behind it the majority of those in the middle layers of society, including about half a million home owners who face the prospect of imminent bankruptcy as a result of debts to the banks totalling U$1·5 billion. In my view, it was not that the Allende Government went too far too quickly but that it did not go far enough quickly enough. For our part, we must say that there will be no negotiations with members of the Chilean junta and no arms sales to that regime.
For the past 14 years, I have had the honour to be president of the Bradford trades council. I describe it as an honour because my many well-known predecessors played such a prominent role in the development of the labour and trade union movements in my city. Following the military coup in Chile 14 years ago, the city of Bradford was host to more than 100 refugees from Chile. We found food, clothing and shelter for them. We provided English lessons and tried to provide further education for those who wanted it and could benefit from it. They were sheltered in people's houses until permanent accommodation could be found and, despite the unemployment situation in Bradford, which is not new, we managed to find jobs for most of them.
For a temporary period, my family took in a young Chilean who had had bitter experiences crossing the mountains into Argentina and not over-pleasant experiences in Cuba before coming to Britain. He was severely shocked and in poor health. In my household, he had to share a small bedroom with my two young sons. I still recall vividly a postcard from Santiago arriving one morning. On one side was a picture of the football stadium with its dreadful memories. On the other side was a single word in Spanish — "Remember". I still recall the chill that that card brought to my household.
We shall indeed remember. We shall remember all the refugees who came to Britain, the 30,000 people who were
632
slaughtered in Chile, as well as those who have been imprisoned and tortured and those who have been attacked and assaulted by the police and security forces in Chile. For 14 years, Chile has been a stain on the name of humanity. I believe that I speak for all Opposition Members when I say that I believe that in the near future there will be a new Chile—a democratic, Socialist Chile—which will not use torture and repression as the junta has but which will be a gentle, co-operative and humane society.
11.16 am
Mr. Jeremy Corbyn: First, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford, North (Mr. Wall) on obtaining this debate and on the way in which he has spoken of the awfulness of life in Chile for so many people.
I wish to put some fairly direct questions to the Government about their attitude to the Government of General Pinochet. It must be stated time and again that that Government, with whom the British Government are apparently happy to do business, is headed by a murderer. He murdered Salvador Allende in cold blood and he has murdered thousands more since then. The teeming prisons and refugee camps and the appalling poverty of the slum areas of Santiago, Valparaiso and other cities are testimony to the type of Government that he operates. It is a Government of the multinational companies, a Government of repression and of murder. [Interruption.] The Minister seems to find that amusing. I find it more than ever disgusting that the British Government should have been the major arms supplier for General Pinochet and his junta ever since arms sales were resumed in 1980, having rightly been banned by the Labour Government from the moment of their election in 1974.
It should be remembered, too, that it was British arms sold to Chile in the past which were used to bomb and strife the Moneda palace and to murder the elected president in 1973. The Labour Government instituted a refugee settlement programme and a ban on arms sales and recalled the British ambassador from Santiago. Since the Tories came to power in 1979, arms sales have been resumed and close military contacts have been established. The ambassador is back in Santiago and everything is supposed to be normal between the British Government and the Pinochet Government.
Nevertheless, there are tensions in the Foreign Office about this. I refer to a document which, happily, was leaked from the Foreign Office in November 1984 and in which Foreign Office officials expressed their horror at the renewal of the state of siege in Chile, the indiscriminate arrests and the activities of the police in gunning down students protesting against the denial of civil liberties and the loss of democracy. Foreign Office officials asked the Government to consider a policy of discouraging commercial loans to Chile by British banks and reducing Export Credits Guarantee Department loans. It is ironic that the Government are not prepared to give such loans to Nicaragua but are apparently happy to provide them for the Pinochet Government whose indebtedness to the world is legion.
The document goes on to suggest that perhaps the World Bank and the Inter-American Development Bank could be leaned on so as not to give any further loans to the Government of Chile. It suggests that the Fairey Engineering contract for a nuclear research project in

633
Chile be stopped. It goes on to question whether other trade sanctions could be introduced. There is then a mind-chilling list of arms that we know that the Chilean junta is after and in many cases has already received from the British Government. Blowpipe anti-aircraft missiles have been made available. Sea Cat missiles have apparently been offered. There is a whole series of weaponry that can only be described as suitable for internal repression. I use those words carefully and advisedly because in meetings I have had with Foreign Office Ministers over the years they have always assured me that the policy of the sale of arms to other countries is strictly dictated by the needs of the national defence of that country and not of internal repression.
I raise two matters. First, where is the external threat to the Government of Chile? Is Argentina about to climb the Andes and invade? Is Peru about to invade? Is Bolivia about to form a navy and sail down the coast and invade? Is there any serious external threat to Chile? Everyone in the Foreign Office knows perfectly well that the answer to that is an emphatic no. They also know that any arms that are sold to the Government of Chile can be used for two purposes. Infra-red weaponry that can be used for night fighting is used for internal repression. Tanks and armoured cars are used for internal repression and for the transport of troops around Chile. People in the Foreign Office know that that equipment is on sale to Chile for its benefit and that those items are used.
Secondly, the British Government's south Atlantic policy is closely linked with the wishes of General Pinochet. There is clear evidence that, during the Falklands war, bases in Chile were used as a back-up and refuelling resource for British troops on their way back and forth to the Falklands and also for the Sea King helicopters to refuel near Punta Arenas. There is also, apparently, a training facility available to British troops in the south Atlantic on Chile. Additionally, there is the constant calling of British vessels at Chilean harbours. Either those are fraternal visits or they are a political gesture to bolster the Government of General Pinochet.
In a recent visit to Chile by the Chile Committee for Human Rights, Andy Atkins, its secretary, reported that he was on a hill above Valparaiso and that when he looked down at that beautiful harbour he saw a British warship. An old man came out of his hut and said, "Which side are your Government on?" That is the question. Which side are the British Government on? It is clear to me, and certainly to Opposition Members, that the British Government are on the side of General Pinochet. They are on the side of repression. They are on the side of the murderers of people in Chile and of the murderers of the Chilean democratically elected Government.
Recently we have seen examples of just how evil is the repression in Chile. There was the example of the 12 people murdered in raids carried out by the Chilean secret police in an operation known as "operation Albania". Instead of reading those 12 names to the House, I will put them down in an early-day motion so that they will at least be commemorated in the House, as people who were killed by the secret police of the Government of General Pinochet because they were deemed to be opposed to that Government. They were not shot down in a gun battle, as the press reported at the time; they were searched out and assassinated by the secret police. That happened on the nights of 15 and 16 June in the districts of San Miguel, Nunoa and Conchali in Santiago. Many other people have
634
been murdered in Chile. Two years ago a person was burnt to death. Many people are in political prisons, which my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford, North referred to. There is, quite simply, the denial of political rights.
In previous debates on Chile—and I have taken part in all of them we have had since 1983 — the British Government have continually pleaded with hon. Members that "constructive dialogue" is the thing, that if only the Government were allowed to talk to General Pinochet arid keep the ambassador there they could ensure that democracy returns in some shape or form. I do not call an election where there is just one candidate, General Pinochet, a democratic election, especially when voters go to the ballot boxes looking down the barrel of a gun. I call that a plebiscite of 1938 Austrian dimensions. It is an election to give a legitimacy to the Fascism that already exists in Chile. That is all the election will achieve.
Other forces in Chile are working hard to bring back the achievements of the Popular Unity Government arid to bring back Socialism. There is the new Left front, the Unidad Izquierda. I would like to know whether the existing or the new British ambassador will meet that body. It is a very important organisation that represents all the social forces in Chile. It is extremely important that the British ambassador does meet its representatives. It is also important, when the new British ambassador arrives shortly, that he takes up the case of Clodomiro Alineyda, the former Foreign Minister in the Popular Unity Government, who voluntarily returned to Chile. There has since been a court case against him. He said, "Well, if democracy is free and alive in Chile and if there is a democratic legal system, I present myself to it". He has now been slapped in irons in internal exile. He must be freed and the British Government must demand his freedom from internal exile. When the Minister replies, I hope he will tell us that that is being done.
The Minister is obviously having some difficulty listening to what I am saying. I put a couple of other questions to him. I mentioned the policy of arms sales to Chile. That is a key to so much of what has been said arid so much of what is at the heart of British policy on Chile. Arms sales were resumed in 1980. With the exception of the non-sale of the rest of the Centaur half-track anti-personnel vehicles, so far as we know all other requests for military equipment by the Government of General Pinochet have been met. We understand that training facilities have been offered. We understand that a number of high level delegations, in addition to the one that my hon. Friend mentioned about Admiral Merino, have taken place. Advice has been given and equipment is being sent to Chile.
Recently, Pye Telecommunications was authorised to send equipment to Chile that was used for crowd control during the Pope's visit. Crowd control in this country might seem a fairly innocent activity, but in the case of Chile it certainly is not. Crowd control takes on a wholly different meaning there.
I would like to know what future arms sales are envisaged and what the British Government's foreign policy is towards Chile. I would like categorically on the record that the British Government intend to end all relations with the Government of General Pinochet, all military contact and particularly all facilities that are used as part of the Falklands operation of the British Government. However, I very much doubt that we shall hear that this morning. I have it on very good authority

635
from people in Chile that a British diesel-powered submarine, the Onyx, recently completed a tour of duty in the Falkland Islands. After it completed its tour of duty it apparently stopped off somewhere and was tarted up — painted, cleaned up and the brass polished. More food was taken on board to entertain people. Lo and behold, it called at Valparaiso on a sales visit. Is it the policy of this Government to sell every warship and submarine that they possibly can, in addition to the county class destroyers that have already been sold, to the Government of General Pinochet? The people of this country are entitled to know. It is not good enough for the British Government to claim that they support democracy and a return to democratic Government in Chile or that they are working with other United Nations countries in supporting resolutions calling for an end to internal repression in Chile while at the same time they are selling arms to Chile. There is a direct correlation between the British Government's receipt of support from General Pinochet during the Falklands war and the British Government's subsequent voting record at the United Nations in either abstaining or voting against resolutions condemning violations of human rights in Chile.
The Government claim that constructive dialogue is the order of the day and that that will bring change in Chile. Since 1973, thousands have died and been murdered for their beliefs because they stood up for their people and their communities, because they tried to organise fellow workers against starvation wages, because they tried to organise fellow shanty dwellers against the misery of shanty towns. They have been done down by the Chilean army and secret police force. Day and night, the secret police force goes on raids throughout the major towns, and goes in search of the Manuel Rodriguez Patriotic Front, and tries to destroy all opposition.
Is it really the function of the British Government, supposedly representing a democracy, to sell arms that can be used to take part in these obscene murders? Should we not say, "No, we will not sell arms to Chile. We will give no trade, aid or loans to Chile, so long as the murderer Pinochet remains in office and the military dictatorship rules the country and this blot on civilisation exists?"
That should be the response that we get from the British Government. I would love to hear it today, although I suspect that I shall wait in vain. I suspect that it will be not the mealy-mouthed hypocrisy of Western European Governments that brings freedom to the people of Chile, but the people themselves in their struggle. Unfortunately, they are being killed by British arms as they struggle for freedom, Socialism and democracy.
11.31 am
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr. David Mellor): I am delighted, Madam Deputy Speaker, to see you in the Chair. It has given great pleasure to your many friends in the House that you have taken on this role, a role which, I am sure you are aware, could only have been afforded to you because of the deep respect in which you are held on both sides of the Chamber. I wish you a long and happy tenure of office.
I am perfectly happy to explain once again the Government's policy and position on Chile. It is not just the representatives of a particular section of the Labour party who have spoken today who are concerned about
636
continuing human rights violations in Chile and about the slow progress towards an orderly and peaceful transition to democracy. It is in that spirit that I respond to the debate. In Chile, the absence of political dialogue between the Government and the democratic opposition, the seeming inability of the judiciary in many cases to act independently, and the repression of political freedoms are all matters of common concern. I accept that serious charges can be made against the Chilean Government. It is no part of my task or function to explain away any of those points.
However, much if not all of what the hon. Members for Bradford, North (Mr. Wall) and for Islington, North (Mr. Corbyn) have said about the Chilean regime applies also to a number of other regimes.
Mr. Corbyn: We are talking about Chile.
Mr. Mellor: I am quite aware that we are talking about Chile. The hon. Gentleman seems to think that he can determine the substance of the debate. I shall respect him and the hon. Member for Bradford, North a great deal more when they start pressing for Adjournment debates about incidents such as that which occurred last November when unarmed East Germans were shot down trying to cross the Berlin wall. I appreciate that the hon. Gentleman is not interested in anything other than his personal views, but let me enlighten him on one matter. He should realise how the exercise of a selective conscience is viewed on the Government Benches. He may say that this debate is about the sale of arms, but his speech called for the cessation of all trading relations, not just arms trading with Chile. If we were to conduct our foreign relations on that basis, an almost unending list of countries would not measure up to our concept of democracy and we could not deal with them. However, there is a yawning chasm of unreason between the particular sect of the Labour party that we see on the Opposition Benches today and the rest of us. I do not imagine that even his Front Bench would agree with most of the points that the hon. Gentleman made today.
I know that what I have said is warmly supported by my hon. Friends. As has been said, we have had normal diplomatic relations with Chile since 1980. This enables us to express concerns to the Chilean Government at the highest levels — concerns which are shared widely throughout the British public — about human rights, freedom, justice and democracy. During the past 12 months, for example, our ambassador in. Santiago has made a series of representations on these important matters to members of the ruling junta, to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, to the Minister of the Interior and others, while Ministers and senior officials here in London have made comparable representations whenever opportunity has offered.
My right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs spoke last February in forthright terms about human rights to Chile's ambassador to the United Nations, Sr. Daza, on the occasion of Sr. Daza's visit to London. Earlier this month, my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs expressed our concerns very frankly to Admiral Merino, the Navy member of the ruling junta, during his private visit to the United Kingdom. The same opportunity was taken to discuss with Admiral Merino political, social and

637
economic developments in Chile. We also have frequent and extensive contact with the democratic opposition in Chile, and with the leading human rights organisations. Such contacts would simply not have been possible in the absence of normal diplomatic relations.
We have also been able to make our views and concerns known in other ways, such as through our votes on resolutions about Chile at the General Assembly of the United Nations. We supported a resolution critical of Chile's human rights accord at the last General Assembly. Then in March this year, at the United Nations Commission on Human Rights, we joined a consensus resolution again criticising the Chilean Government's continuing poor record. Our concerns are shared by our EC partners and, as the Twelve, we have made a number of demarches and statements, both public and private, expressing concern about particular, and general, human rights abuses and about the need for an early, orderly and peaceful return to democracy in Chile.
A great deal has been made of defence links and arms sales. Our policy on defence sales and on continued contact between United Kingdom defence personnel and representatives of the Chilean armed forces has been criticised by some hon. Members today. Our defence relations with Chile are a normal part of our normal diplomatic relations with that country. There is nothing unusual in these contacts. They reflect the long connection between our two countries' armed forces, especially between our navies and our air forces. It is good that these links should he maintained, and that the Chileans should be exposed to our thinking and to the role of the British armed forces. As to defence sales, our policy worldwide is sensitive to concerns about human rights. We take great care not to approve the sale to Chile of items which, in our judgment. are likely to be used for internal repression. I must emphasise that we consider every single application for arms sales to Chile and we have refused many applications. Our policy is a responsible one and the way that we manage it in no way condones human rights abuses in Chile.
As to the sale of ships to the Chilean navy, these are manifestly for external defence and cannot reasonably be regarded as instruments of internal repression. There is no evidence whatsoever of the use of former Royal Navy ships in Chile as torture centres. I am not able to comment on, and in no way should be seen to be confirming, anything that the hon. Member for Islington, North said about one of our submarines. The idea that he should regard a submarine as an instrument of internal repression is a sign of how far from common sense he has strayed. It is a shame to spoil a good case about the human rights record in Chile, about which all of us can agree, by mounting on to it such lurid and unsustainable allegations of the kind raised by both the hon. Member for Bradford, North and the hon. Member for Islington, North. In relation to tanks and armoured cars, I can state that no such items supplied by Her Majesty's Government are in service in Chile. The hon. Member for Islington, North referred to a matter that occurred some time ago and a half-track vehicle which has been withdrawn.
The key to the future of Chile must surely be its transition back to democracy. We must remember that Chile has a long history of democracy and we are continuallly reminded in the many contacts that we have with democratic Chileans of the role played by Britain in their independence in the 1820s and the close family,
638
cultural and commercial ties that we have had during that long democratic history. I make no bones about it, the current Chilean Government is anomalous. We in this House and the vast majority of the British and Chilean people want to see democracy peacefully restored in Chile. We continue to do all that we can to urge the Chilean Government to take adequate steps to bring that about.
We have all been disappointed at the lack of progress in the past. However, there have been some positive signs in recent months. The long-promised laws on political parties and on electoral registration were promulgated earlier this year. They provide some sign that the Government are serious in their commitment to the political development, albeit limited, envisaged by the 1980 constitution. We very much hope that those measures will lead to the restoration of normal democratic political activity in Chile. In the meantime, we continue to encourage the democratic opposition to try to develop their unity and to put forward credible long-term policies.
Very properly, Opposition Members raised the matter of contacts with Opposition politicians and they were not parts of the speeches with which I disgreed. We have supported, with our European Community partners, the moderate Opposition's national accord. We regularly fund United Kingdom visits of opposition leaders from across the democratic spectrum. Our embassy maintains regular contact with opposition leaders and that policy will continue.
We have also continued to sponsor visits to the United Kingdom by a broad section of politicians including Sr. Molina the co-ordinator of the 1985 national accord, Sr. Huepe of the Christian Democrats and several important journalists, including the editor-in-chief of the new independent newspaper. Those visitors receive vital encouragement from a wide range of democratic opinion in Britain.
It is also fair to say that not all is doom and gloom in Chile. The points made about poverty and the Chilean economy are also tragically common throughout the south American continent. I visited South America last September and toured countries under a variety of democratic rule including Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador and Colombia. Peru and Bolivia are democracies and can be subject to none of the criticisms advanced against Chile. However, there is real poverty, need and want in those countries and all of the vital indicators about welfare do not point where those Governments would like them to point. The Chilean Government are not alone in lacing economic difficulties in recent years.
To give credit where it is due, the Chilean economy is now being responsibly managed for the ultimate benefit of all Chileans. All major financial institutions agree with that. Serious mistakes caused the explosive boom in the early 1980s. However, they have been corrected. Gross domestic product growth in 1986 was more than 5 per cent., unemployment has been reduced to less than 9 per cent. and there are positive trends in the economy. I do not say that as an apologist for Pinochet, but to ensure a balance and objectivity, although I appreciate that those are alien concepts to the hon. Members for Islington, North and for Bradford, North. — [Interruption] The dissent that greets my comment was not the kind of dissent that greeted the candidature of the hon. Member for Bradford, North in years past.
The next two years are likely to be crucial for the future of Chile. Under the 1980 constitution, a presidential

639
plebiscite is to be held by March 1989 at the latest, followed by congressional elections a year later. We shall be watching the evolution of those events in Chile with much interest.

Sporting Events (Safety)
11.45 am
Mr. Neil Thorne: Madam Deputy Speaker, my hon. Friends are already aware of my interest in the subject of safety at sporting events because of my contributions on Third Reading of the Fire Safety and Safety of Places of Sport Act 1987. We all know that the Government have generated a considerable effort in encouraging independence of mind. The population should be encouraged to stand on their own feet and think for themselves. The Government have spent much effort on encouraging those attributes in recent years, and the benefits of that encouragement are to be found through the considerable improvements in the economy.
At the same time, the Government have been conscious of the need to protect the weak, and in that regard to ensure that people who venture into areas that are not always familiar to them are adequately provided for. We have noticed that while removing the population from the nanny society — catering for the individual from the cradle to the grave—the Government have nevertheless ensured that the population are not preyed upon by people who would take advantage of them. In that regard I refer to those who, in the past, have taken advantage of people on the doorstep. For example, doorstep salesmen have been curbed and the Government have ensured that in future people will have plenty of opportunity to ensure that they are not subject to onerous conditions that have been hastily entered into.
In looking after vulnerable sections of the community it is clear that central Government and local government will be called upon to provide protection in areas which the population visit on rare occasions. For example, regulations have been laid down that set out what is required of a cinema exhibitor. Requirements of this sort have been set out in a number of Acts. Legislation has improved the design and construction of buildings, and fire and planning requirements are improved every year. The disabled are protected in a major way, and the provisions that attach to new building require consultation with fire departments to ensure that use is made of the latest knowledge and experience. If there have been any recent catastrophes, care is taken to incorporate in new buildings the lessons that have been learnt. This means that any commercial building must meet certain provisions and requirements.
Licences are required for the exhibition of films under the Cinemas Act 1985. Section 1 states:
"no premises shall be used for a film exhibition unless they are licensed for the purpose under this section."
Subsection (2) provides:
"A licensing authority may grant a licence under this section to such a person as they think fit to use any premises specified in the licence for the purpose of film exhibitions on such terms and conditions and subject to such restrictions as, subject to regulations under section 4 below, they may determine."
It is clear that that lays the onus upon the local authority, which is subject to the provisions that are set out in section 3. Subsection (1) states:
"An applicant for the grant, renewal or transfer of a licence shall give to—

(a) the licensing authority,

(b) the fire authority, and

(c) the chief officer of police,

not less than 28 days' notice of his intention to make the application."

641
Subsection (2) states:
"The licensing authority may in such cases as they think fit, after consulting with the fire authority and the chief officer of police, grant an application for the grant, renewal or transfer of a licence notwithstanding the fact that the applicant has failed to give notice in accordance with subsection (1) above."
Subsection (3) adds:
"In considering any application for the grant, renewal or transfer of a licence, the licensing authority shall have regard to any observations submitted to them by the fire authority or by the chief officer of police."
That is the important provision. The licensing authority is required to listen to what a fire officer and a police officer have to say. It cannot issue a licence without having taken into account the observations of those officers. Whether it listens to what it is told remains to be seen, but it is required to take their observations into account.
There are certain provisions that allow for exemptions. If a film is exhibited in a club that requires membership before members of the public are allowed to attend, the provisions to which I have referred do not apply unless the club forms part of a building that is licensed for use by the general public. If, for example, on the ground floor of the premises there is a public cinema that is in use and in the basement a private cinema club is opened, the club would be bound by the provisions of the 1985 Act. If the club were in separate premises and entirely private, the provisions would not apply.
The law is different for discos. If a disco on a ground floor, for example, is licensed and there is a basement operation, the advantages of the regulations do not apply.
There is a need for a greater measure of safety at sporting events. I think that that is accepted generally by all responsible bodies. For example, the Jockey Club has laid down rules carefully and it does not allow racing to commence unless there is adequate provision for the safety of the participants and the general public. However, that is not the case everywhere. It came as something of a surprise to me to learn that the responsibility of the Health and Safety Executive for first-aid applies only to employees and does not extend to facilities for the general public. The employer in a place of sport must comply with the regulations when making provision for his employees, but, where other persons are regularly on the premises, the employer may extend the facilities to them, provided that the employees are not adversely affected. The employer must therefore examine carefully the element of risk in the provision of both equipment and personnel.
We all appreciate that safety is of paramount importance, and the announcement today of the report on the Zeebrugge disaster highlights the issue. Many people lost their lives in a very short time in that disaster, which has concentrated our minds upon it. I am sure that the regulations will be tightened to make such catastrophes less likely in the future. However, I believe that we have many other opportunities to improve safety arrangements, and that we should introduce them without waiting for major disasters.
Several fires have taken place at football stadia, and that, too, has concentrated the minds of the authorities on using fully the facilities which have been made available under various Acts of Parliament, but which have not previously been used to the full. The Popplewell report is an important contribution: it makes absolutely clear the need to improve existing conditions in first-aid rooms, including equipment, number of personnel and the
642
provision of in situ ambulances when they are required, to make adequate provision for those likely to be affected in both indoor and outdoor activities.
The Home Office in the past has not been as demanding as it might have been. As recently as March this year, it was saying:
"Thus, the local 'certificating' authority determines the terms and conditions of the safety certificate including whether or not it should include a condition relating to first-aid facilities. In our experience safety certificates do contain such conditions. Even so, in July 1985 we drew … attention … to Recommendation 8 of the Popplewell Inquiry Interim Report, specifically asking them to consider inclusion of a condition within safety certificates for adequate first-aid facilities."
In its "Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds", the Home Office reminded ground management of its responsibilities to provide such facilities for visitors and staff. However, it was not considered necessary to impose such a requirement on the licensing authority as a duty, and that is where the matter seems to go wrong. Although the Home Office has offered to suggest to the local authorities that they should consider that point in granting licences for indoor sporting entertainments in general, it does not appear to consider it a high enough priority to put further pressure on the authorities to take it into account. If it is not taken into account, the attitude of the officials is likely to be more low-key.
I am not saying that that is the case throughout local government. In many cases officials take such matters very seriously and try to require a very high standard. However, the public should not he exposed to hit-and-miss arrangements. They should be able to expect a uniform standard of safety. It is not for the man in the street to find out whether the fire and first-aid precautions are to his liking at sporting events or in clubs. I am thinking in particular of the Queensway ice rink, a private club that does not have to comply with any licensing regulations. Furthermore, it does not come under the Health and Safety Executive. Adequate provision is made for the members of the staff, but club members are not covered by those provisions. I seriously question whether they understand that fact.
The 1966 Act states that the various venues for exhibition purposes — for example, the Wembley conference centre and the Kensington design centre — are not necessarily covered by the licensing authorities. However, those venues should be carefully monitored. We must ensure that the necessary standards are applied.
Paragraph 3.99 of the Popplewell report says:
"The value of the presence of the St. John's Ambulance at a sports ground cannot be over-estimated. If it be the case that a first-aid room is either not provided or inadequately provided then that should be remedied, and I recommend that, where practicable, that should be done. I recommend that on grounds which are designated it should be a term of the safety certificate."
That is a significant contribution to the debate.
Adequate first-aid provision is needed. My hon. Friend the Minister will remember that there has been more than one accident in the House when first-aid has been of great importance. I remember being in the Chamber when one of my hon. Friend's Welsh ministerial colleagues collapsed at the place where my hon. Friend is now sitting. First-aid was of the greatest importance. We are lucky to have first-aiders as members of the staff, and we have revised our

643
arrangements to ensure that the necessary equipment and facilities can easily be reached. We have learnt the lessons of that occasion.
Provision must be made for the public. St. John Ambulance is not the only organisation that provides such cover. The Red Cross also provides it. That cover is provided on a voluntary basis. The Government are anxious that the voluntary sector should play its full part. Therefore, we must ensure that adequate facilities are made available so that sufficient volunteers are encouraged to come forward. If such provision is not made, the voluntary system will collapse. That is why the existing law and regulations should be used to the utmost benefit to guarantee volunteers the facilities that they need to continue to participate. If there are no adequate rooms for equipment to be kept in, and if refreshment allowances are not forthcomong, one can hardly expect organisations such as St. John Ambulance to subsidise sporting events. If my hon. Friend's Department were to be more insistent in its demands that local authorities incorporate such provision in their licensing considerations — before anyone embarks upon an event he or she will wish to inquire what the likely cost will be — that would be taken into account in planning.
As far as I can make out at the moment, a sporting event is planned, and if there is no specific reference to the necessity to provide for safety, it is slipped in at the last moment. I understand that cricket authorities have no provision within their funds for first-aid payments. A football trust fund helps with expenses, but I understand that no fewer than five members of St. John Ambulance must be on duty at any one time to qualify for the provision. The amount that they are paid to defray expenses, which of course must cover their travelling expenses and refreshment allowances, is often completely and utterly inadequate. In the circumstances, often as little as £100 is allocated for a five-day cricket test match, which is as little as £20 a day to finance the travelling expenses and refreshment allowances of five people. That is totally and utterly inadequate. If the Home Office were to insist that adequate provision be made during the licensing, it would properly be provided for.
Section 42 of the Fire Safety and Safety of Places of Sport Act 1987 amended schedule 12 to the London Government Act 1963, paragraph 3A(1) of which reads:
"no premises in a London borough or the City of London shall be used for any entertainment … to which the public are invited as spectators … except under … the terms of a licence granted … by the Council.
A council should specify the terms and conditions under which a licence is issued. By section 31 the Secretary of State may make regulations for the issue of safety certificates for sports grounds and, has a duty to consult such persons or bodies of persons as appear to him to be requisite. The legislation should specify that such bodies should be qualified. It is the duty of the local authority to enforce and inspect. The local authority must act in accordance with such guidance as the Secretary of State may give. That is the foundation on which it should be done.
I remind my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State that, prior to the Bradford football club fire, the provision of suitable accommodation by professional football clubs was totally inadequate. The Bradford football club fire
644
caused a complete rethinking of the subject. The initiative to improve facilities in London has been taken by St. John Ambulance. We must thank the people concerned, particularly Commander Derek Fenton, who has been an important influence in drawing our attention to the need for adequate provision.
We must accept and acknowledge that a little pre-planning could save a vast amount of trouble at a later date. We should give great care and consideration to what the St. John Ambulance and other interested bodies advise on this, and we should urge the Secretary of State to use the full powers at his command to implement the type of safety standards that the public has the right to expect.
12.10 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Douglas Hogg): I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford, South (Mr. Thorne) for giving me this opportunity to explain the method by which Parliament and the Government try to ensure the safety of those who attend spectator sports. I shall outline in general terms the statutory framework governing safety at sports grounds and shall respond to the points that my hon. Friend made so clearly.
Until this year the relevant legislation was contained in the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975. The catalyst for that legislation was the disaster at Ibrox park in 1971 in which 66 people died. Following that disaster a committee of inquiry was set up under Lord Wheatley. As a result of the recommendations contained in the committee's report, this House passed the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975. It might be helpful if I described the nature of the 1975 legislation. Its main feature was the creation of the concept of "designated stadia". They were a class of sports ground that was required to have a safety certificate. Perhaps that statement requires some amplification. The stadia that were liable to have a safety certificate were those that provided spectator accommodation for more than 10,000 persons in stadia form including covered accommodation.
The power of designation was given to the Secretary of State. The power to grant the safety certificate was conferred on the local authority, which had a duty to ensure the reasonable safety of spectators. It did that by the power to impose conditions through the safety certificate. Its obligation and power was to impose such requirements as were necessary or expedient to ensure the safety of spectators. Thus, the essential provision of the 1975 Act was the creation of the designated stadia to which the safety certificate must apply.
The 1975 Act contains another significant power — the power given to the local authorities to apply to a court for a prohibition order. A court could make such an order to prohibit or restrict the admission of spectators to grounds if there was a serious risk to the spectators. That power of prohibition was not confined to the designated stadia but applied to all grounds.
As a result of the 1985 tragedy at Bradford, Parliament looked again at the safety of sports grounds. The Bradford disaster focused public attention on the need to take further positive steps to ensure spectator safety. The first and most obvious consequence of the fire was a substantial extension of designation status. Designation status was extended to a greatly increased number of grounds. Prior to the disaster designation status had been extended to soccer clubs in divisions one and two of the Football League, to several international football stadia, including

645
Wembley, Twickenham, Cardiff and Murrayfield, and to the Premier League in Scotland. As a result of the Bradford fire the remaining clubs in the Football League were designated as and from August 1985, as were Rugby League clubs having spectator accommodation for more than 10,000 people. That meant that an additional 58 grounds were designated under the 1975 Act. That was the first consequence of the Bradford fire.
Of later consequence was perhaps the establishment of the committee of inquiry to which my hon. Friend has referred, the inquiry under Mr. Justice Popplewell, whose report was published in January 1986. It was followed by a consultative document published in the summer of 1986, which led directly to the Fire Safety and Safety of Places of Sport Act 1987, which we passed in May.
The 1987 Act made five major changes in the law which governs the safety of sports grounds. First, it required local authorities to carry out annual inspections of sports grounds that are designated under the Act. In the 1975 Act local authorities were not under a statutory duty to carry out periodic inspections, although the majority of them did so.
The second change was the introduction of the concept of the regulated stand. A regulated stand is a covered stand providing accommodation for 500 or more persons in grounds which are not designated grounds. A regulated stand requires a safety certificate. We believe that this requirement will affect 400 or so sports grounds. The issue and contents of the safety certificates will be similar to those required for designated grounds. The safety certificates will be wider in scope than mere fire safety and will extend to structural safety. The requirement will extend well beyond football clubs into race courses, dog tracks, motor racing tracks and, for example, Wimbledon. Therefore, the creation of the regulated stand with the safety certificate requirement will make a great improvement in safety.
The third change relates to the issue of the prohibition notice. Under the 1975 Act the power to issue a prohibition notice was granted to the courts on the application of the local authority. As a result of the 1987 Act the power to issue a prohibition notice has been granted to the local authorities, although there is a right of appeal to the courts. Perhaps it is right to emphasise that although there is a right of appeal to the courts the effect of the appeal is not to suspend the efficacy of the prohibition notice. One does not suspend it simply by applying for an appeal; it remains in force until the appeal is determined.
The fourth major change removes what was always an artificial distinction between grounds and stadia. Now, the concept that governs legislation in this area is not one of stadia, but one of grounds. The legislation applies to grounds, not to stadia, as was previously the case.
Finally—I shall return to this matter to answer my hon. Friend's comments—licences will now be required for a whole range of indoor sporting events. However, the legislation is drafted in such a way as to ensure that it does not catch premises where the sporting event is only ancillary to the use to which the premises are put. For example, a pub in which there is a darts match will not be required to have an indoor sporting licence of the sort contemplated under the 1987 Act.
The primary legislation was the 1975 Act, but that has now been modified in at least five major respects by the 1987 Act, which now governs legislation in this area. The
646
1987 Act received Royal Assent on 15 May. It is our intention that most, if not all, of the major provisions of that Act will be brought into effect in 1988.
I have spoken of the statutory changes, but there are at least two other changes that I should mention. There has been an extension in the number of designated grounds. I have already said that, as from August 1985, almost all soccer clubs in the Football League were designated, as were the main Rugby League clubs. The Popplewell inquiry recommended the extension of designated status to soccer, Rugby League, Rugby Union and cricket grounds. That proposal was accepted. As a result,:in England and Wales, a further 52 sports grounds were designated with effect from 23 August 1986. From 1 October 1986, 14 clubs in the Scottish Football League were also designated. At the moment some 200 grounds are the subject of designation.
Another consequence and change brought about by the Popplewell inquiry was the publication of a green guide. Previously there was a guide in existence, but following the Popplewell recommendations and the report of a working party a further green guide has been published. It is a voluntary guide as to the safety standards and measures that can be adopted. It is guidance both for the management and operators of the relevant ground and for the local authorities.
In the course of his helpful speech my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford, South raised two issues with which I wish to deal. The first was the provision of medical care at sporting events and the second — an issue he also raised in May on Third Reading of the 1987 Act — related to the provision of safety at private functions as opposed to public functions. My hon. Friend paid great tribute to St. John Ambulance and the other voluntary services that provide emergency medical care. I echo and support my hon. Friend's remarks. In my constituency and in the county of Lincolnshire we have considerable cause to be grateful to the St. John Ambulance, the Red Cross and other such bodies. I entirely welcome what my hon. Friend said about those organisations. They provide essential medical care at sporting events and elsewhere.
The legal position is as follows: as regards sporting events, the local authorities are solely in charge of the imposition of terms and conditions that can be made the terms and conditions of the safety certificate. It is for the local authority to determine the extent to which it wishes to insist on the provision of emergency medical care as a term of the safety certificate.
Most safety certificates, hitherto granted, that dealt with sporting events made provision for first aid. I believe that that will continue. I shall consider whether it is desirable to write to local authorities drawing specific attention to the fact that it is within their jurisdiction and competence to impose such a condition. My present feeling is that because that practice is so widespread it is probably not necessary to contact the local authorities, but I will consider it.
A different position applies to indoor sporting events because there the changes are substantial. I shall consider whether, when we issue a circular to the local authorities, it would be desirable to draw their attention to the fact that when they license an indoor sporting function or the premises they have a power to require the provision of first aid or similar facilities.
Another point, which my hon. Friend raised more directly in the debate on the Third Reading of the 1987

647
Act, although it also arose in today's debate, was the distinction between public events and private events. My hon. Friend is naturally anxious about that and, by implication, he would say that those who attend private events, which are in substance public events, should receive the same protection as those who attend events which are obviously and ostensibly public events. It might be helpful if I reminded him of the statutory framework. As a result of the 1987 legislation, Parliament has provided that licences are required
"for any entertainment which consists of any sporting event to which the public are invited as spectators."
Then there is the qualification that the licence is not required
"when the sporting event which constitutes the entertainment is not the principal purpose for which the premises are used on that occasion."
That proviso would benefit the pub where a darts march is held which the public might be invited to watch but which is not the principal purpose for which the premises are used.
That statutory requirement governs those entertainments to which the public are invited as spectators. For a truly private event, the legislation should not provide similar requirements, because the regulatory framework that we would have to set up would be oppressive and would overwhelm the regulatory authorities. But the question whether something is private or public is a question of law. When called upon to determine it, the courts will have regard not to the form but to the substance, and it is plain that where members of the public are invited to roll up on the day and pay their membership fees at the door, that will almost certainly be treated as a public event to which the regulations will apply, whereas they will not apply to a truly private event. It is a question of substance, not of form.
My hon. Friend referred specifically to Queensway ice rink. Hitherto, Queensway has not been licensed, but I understand that it has applied to Westminster city council for a public entertainment licence and that the council will consider that application. Although I do not wish to express a concluded view as to the law in such a case, at first blush it seems that Queensway ice rink is right to do so. I understand that members of the public turn up to watch what goes on there, they pay their fees at the door and they are admitted. If that is a correct analysis of what happens, the ice rink is certainly caught by the 1987 legislation and, consequently, it requires a licence. The question is always one of reality, not of form, and if in substance it is a public event, the operators require the relevant licence.
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising the matter and for giving me the opportunity to spell out the general legislative framework that applies and my understanding of the law insofar as it applies to the specific points that he made. Since the Bradford fire, we have all become more conscious of the dangers that are inherent when large crowds gather at sporting events, and I believe that as a result of the practical changes that have been made since the Popplewell inquiry, and as a result of the legislation that the House passed earlier this year, the public can be certain that when they attend sporting events they are reasonably safe.

Law Centres
12.30 pm
Mr. Keith Vaz: I am grateful for the opportunity to raise the important issue of the continued funding and extension of funding of law centres. The last time the House debated law centres was on 13 March 1986, at the unfriendly hour of 2.46 am. That debate was held on a motion moved by the hon. Member for Tyne Bridge (Mr. Clelland) and concerned two law centres in his constituency—in Gateshead and Newcastle. Since then, an early-day motion has been tabled in the name of the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Mr. Bowden) and signed by 70 other hon. Members from both sides of the House—a sign that the whole concept of law centres has support from all hon. Members.
This morning's debate will, I hope, elicit from the Minister a clear statement about the standing and future funding of law centres. The funding of law centres is in a state of chaos. A wide range of organisations have been funding them. Law centres began in Britain in 1970. The first law centre started in north Kensington with donations from local charitable organisations. It was because of the success of the north Kensington law centre that the Lord Chancellor's Department took on funding in 1974.
In the past 17 years a number of law centres have opened and closed, and there are now 57 such centres in Britain — for a population of more than 55 million people. It is a sad fact that only one person in 10 lives within the catchment area of a law centre. Geographically, the position is even worse. There is only one law centre in Scotland, one in Wales and one in Northern Ireland. In the east midlands, there are two in Leicester and one in Nottingham — no more. One law centre — Sandwell — closed this year, as its urban aid programme ran out.
The existence of law centres has the endorsement of every organisation that is active in the area of legal services. The Royal Commission on legal services in 1979 stated:
"The impact of law centres has been out of all proportion to their size, to the number of lawyers who work in them and to the amount of work it is possible for them to undertake. The volume of work they have attracted has shown how deep is the need they are attempting to meet. It has dispelled the possibility of complacency over the institution of the legal aid scheme, has emphasised the importance of a wider distribution of legal services and has shown the desirability of enabling and encouraging lawyers to take up work elsewhere than in their traditional areas of activity and types of practice".
The chairman of the Lord Chancellor's advisory committee, in the preface to the 35th annual report in 1984, said:
"Whether it be provided through the Green Form Scheme, through Duty Solicitors, Law Centres, CABX, Tribunal Assistance Units, or other independent advice agencies, good early advice is the foundation of the Legal Aid Scheme … Our concern is to ensure that access to justice which these agencies represent is preserved undiminished, even in times of financial restraint".
In the Archbishop of Canterbury's report, "Faith in the City", published in 1985, there was a paragraph that stated:
"The value of the role and the current need of the Centres and their present financial predicament could not be more clearly set out than in the Lord Chancellor's Advisory Committee's Report. We wish to give the fullest support to the proposals of the Lord Chancellor's Committee and recommend that they be implemented immediately".
In the debate in 1986 the Minister's predecessor said:

649
"The Government do not dispute the usefulness of law centres in some areas, as shown in those reports, and most recently in the report of the Archbishop of Canterbury's commission on urban priority areas."—[Official Report, 13 March 1986; Vol. 93, c. 1251.]
It may be useful if I chronicle the activities of law centres. Without wishing to be patronising, I believe that very few Members of Parliament have worked in, visited or sought advice from a law centre. The centres are based on the concept that justice must be open to all members of the public, and they provide a vital resource for unmet legal needs in a community. Their arrival in 1970 transformed the legal landscape. For the first time, a solicitor entering practice did not have to concentrate on providing business for profit, but could concentrate on assisting people without the constraints of financial incentive. The law centres deal with a wide range of casework and issues. They provide information about rights. They give advice and information to other agencies, such as citizens' advice bureaux, they give information to individuals and groups and they take up cases. This country is not the only one that has law centres. Other countries, notably Holland and the United States, accept and promote the idea of public legal services.
Before coming to the House I worked in the North Leicester advice centre. There are two law centres in Leicester, the Leicester Rights law centre in the centre of the city, and the Highfields and Belgrave law centre, which became the North Leicester advice centre and the Highfields advice centre earlier this year. The Leicester Rights law centre received a grant from central Government which ended in March 1986. Both centres provide valuable assistance to local people. In housing matters, advice and assistance is given against unscrupulous landlords. Immigration matters such as visa extensions and appeals are also dealt with. In matters of crime, young people are assisted through the processes of the law. The centres also handle issues of welfare rights, employment and small claims in the county court. In the past six months, the North Leicester advice centre has assisted more than 3,000 people and last year the Leicester Rights centre dealt with thousands of inquiries from local people. Both organisations have immense community support. On 23 October 1985, the Leicester Mercury stated:
"The concept of the centre is an excellent one. It exists to give a handy, low-cost or free legal advice service to those who live in the areas, who have problems with the legal system."
Yet there are very few such centres in the east midlands. There is one in Nottingham, but none in Lincolnshire, Leicestershire county or Derbyshire, although there are moves to set up a centre in Derby.
It is totally unacceptable that law centres, which have proved to be essential legal services, should have to compete each year for the morsels thrown into the trough of expenditure on public legal services and that law centre workers and their clients should have to go through the annual funding crisis. It is unacceptable for the Government to pass the buck to local authorities. Central Government are responsible for the provision of legal services, for the administration of legal aid and for the administration of justice. They should therefore have responsibility for central funding of law centres. The burden cannot be placed on local authorities such as Leicester and Nottingham, which do not have the resources to cope because of central Government cuts in
650
grant allocation. Without central Government funding there is a real fear that a number of law centres will have to close next year.
The pursuit of justice cannot be made cost-effective. Out of a total law centre bill of £7 million, only some £750,000 comes from the Lord Chancellor's Department and with grants from other Departments total funding does not exceed one seventh of the bill. Forty out of the 57 law centres are totally dependent on local authority finance. It is not good enough that people have access to legal services just because they happen to live within the boundaries of a Labour-controlled authority. I am sure the Minister will say that it is all a question of' money. Indeed, it does turn on money. It is only the Government who wish to evade their responsibility.
In a letter from the general secretary of the Law Society, Mr. Bowron, dated 21 October 1986 to the Lord Chancellor's legal aid advisory committee, he said:
"The Law Society has supported secure central government funding for law centres for a number of years and remains of the view that this is the only way to avoid the waste of resources and the disruption caused by annual funding uncertainties."
Uncertain funding also results in difficulties in planning and developing law centre services.
The Law Centres Federation, which has campaigned for a number of years as the shop steward of law centres, said in February 1984:
"Funding should be provided by Central Government, either directly through an appropriate Government Department or Departments, or through an intermediary body."
The advisory committee, in its 34th report, said:
"We concluded that they should be treated as an essential part of the network of legal services, that your Lordship should take on responsibility for their core-funding and that the basis of that funding should be sufficiently assured to allow law centres to pursue viable recruitment and staffing policies and to promote long-term planning. Our views have only been strengthened by developments since our 34th Report was published."
The Society of Conservative Lawyers, in a pamphlet published a couple of years ago, called for the law centres to be expanded in number and put on a permanent arid central financial footing. It said:
"The members of the public who have used law centres have received a generally excellent service at a modest cost to the public purse."
There must be no excuse for wriggling. Centrally funded national networks of law centres funded by central Government must be the way forward. One way to pay the cost is perhaps to abolish the role of private solicitors in the legal aid system and to ensure that all public money is dispensed on public legal services. I hope that the Government will look to a new approach.
There must be sufficient funds to provide services throughout the area, not just to inner-city areas, but to the outer estates and rural areas. There are parts of my constituency — Netherhall, Humberston, Rowletts Hill, Thurnby Lodge, Northfields and Goodwood in the outer estates of Leicester—that do not have any legal services because they are not in the inner-city areas. Local people there have exactly the same problems as people in the inner-city areas. They have problems with housing and welfare rights and they need assistance in exactly the same way. They do not necessarily have the transport facilities to go into the inner-city areas to get the legal advice that is available to others.

651
I am sure that the Minister has heard the story of Cinderella. Law centres are the Cinderella of the legal services movement. I hope that he will be the fairy godmother and that he will wave his wand and send Cinderella to the justice ball by announcing the statutory and central funding of a network of law centres. To refuse centrally to fund the only organisation that can ensure that justice is accessible to all our people might be interpreted by some as showing that only the well-off should have access to legal advice and, therefore, to justice. I am sure that the Minister would not want such a misinterpretation to occur. Justice is too sacred a commodity to be available only to certain segments of our society. It lies at the very heart of democracy and it must be equally available to all.
12.44 pm
The Solicitor-General (Sir Nicholas Lyell): I congratulate the hon. Member for Leicester, East (Mr. Vaz) on his good fortune in obtaining this debate at a reasonable and appropriate hour for such an important subject. I welcome the opportunity in this new Parliament to set out once again the Government's approach to the funding of law centres.
The background to the hon. Gentleman's case for greater central funding of law centres lies in his experience of his own local law centre in Leicester, in which he has been employed in recent years. He has spoken in general terms of the problems of funding law centres, and I know that there were some specific problems in regard to the funding and management of one particular law centre in Leicester. I now understand from the council that, after a number of management changes, the new board is working well and the city council now proposes, indeed has undertaken, to return the law centre to management by the local community. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman and I both welcome that.
I should add that, back in 1983, the council wrote to Ministers at the Department of the Environment and to my noble Friend the Lord Chancellor in the hope that funding for law centres might be placed upon central Government. However, I have to make it clear that this is not, and never has been, Government policy. In many respects, I believe that the Leicester problem and the Leicester solution to that problem lend support to the Government's view that funding for law centres is, and should be, primarily a matter for local responsibility.
Government policy has been made clear on a number of occasions, and I am glad of the opportunity to restate it today. The Government warmly acknowledge that law centres can have a valuable role to play, depending on local circumstances, in the provision of legal services. They can often usefully supplement the national legal aid and legal advice scheme. They can frequently not only complement and supplement those formal legal services provided by local solicitors and by the Bar, but tie in helpfully with the less formal but often valuable help and advice on legal and quasi-legal matters provided by welfare rights organisations and citizens advice bureaux. However, in all these respects the establishment of and provision of support for law centres are essentially matters for local decision and initiative.
It is instructive to examine the overall provision of law centres. Over the nation as a whole there are now some 60 law centres in operation all of which have come into being
652
since the first law centre was established in north Kensington in 1970. Of these, 57 are members of the Law Centres Federation. The majority are based in inner city areas and 29 out of the 60 are situated in London. Of the 60, all but seven are funded by local government because of the need, as perceived by individual local authorities, for such services in their areas.
In relation to central funding, there has been no change in practice as between the previous Labour Government and the present Government. Between 1974 and 1979 the then Lord Chancellor, Lord Elwyn Jones, entered into commitments to fund seven law centres. Of these, four, accounting for nearly two thirds of the direct funding, some £410,000 out of £690,000 last year, are in London, and of the remainder there is one each in Birmingham, Cardiff and Leeds. The remainder of the funding from the Lord Chancellor's Department goes to the Law Centres Federation in London and towards a small contingency fund. Looking at overall national funding of law centres, total annual funding is between £6 million and £6·5 million per annum in last year's terms. Of this, central funding, including some support through the urban programme, amounts to a total of £1·02 million. The remainder, and therefore by far the greater proportion, is funded by local authorities, though it is right—and this is significant for what I shall say later — to remind the House that a proportion of that funding comes from funding to law centres for specific work carried out for individual clients through the legal aid green form scheme.
The House will, of course, be aware and the hon. Gentleman has rightly reminded us that the Royal Commission on legal services and the Lord Chancellor's legal aid advisory committee have recommended that central Government should assume responsibility for law centres and their funding. In its most recent report the legal aid advisory committee pointed again to the difficulties which can be caused by short-term funding commitments on the part of local authorities and other bodies and described the particular experience of Paddington north centre.
It has been argued, and the hon. Gentleman repeated the arguments eloquently today, that this policy can cause difficulty to law centres competing for limited local authority funds. I am also aware of the view that law centres should not have to rely for funds on bodies against whom they may be required to bring proceedings. However, it is a fact of life that the resources of both central Government and local government are inevitably limited and must therefore be subject to conflicting demands. Priorities have to be established. Local authorities are, we believe, considerably better placed than central Government to decide whether a particular local service is required or whether a service currently provided is appropriate to local needs. It is in some respects somewhat ironic to hear a representative of the Opposition arguing for central rather than local funding and control.
The next point is said to be the problem for law centres in litigating against the providers of their funds. I believe that the great majority of local authorities rightly and implicitly accept that the law centre must act in its clients' best interests. From time to time this will mean that a law centre has to act on behalf of its client against its own local authority which puts it in funds. However, the problem is no different in principle in relation to central Government, for the same arguments apply in relation to cases where it is necessary for the law centre to bring proceedings on

653
behalf of clients against central Government or their agencies in circumstances where central Government are the provider of funds.
I should, however, like to put the whole question of law centre funding into the context of overall Government funding for those who need financial assistance to obtain legal aid and advice and say a word or two about the future of such funding as outlined in the Government's White Paper presented to Parliament on 26 March 1987. Total expenditure on legal aid in 1986–87 amounted to no less than £391·5 million, a formidable increase on the 1979–80 figure of around £100 million.
The current figure is provided through five main channels. First, civil legal aid amounted last year to £104 million. Secondly, criminal legal aid, providing for the assistance of a solicitor, and, where appropriate, counsel in defending a case before the criminal courts, reached £177 million last year. Thirdly, legal advice and assistance, also widely known as "the green form scheme", enables a solicitor to give advice on any matter relating to English law and there is an initial cost limit on the amount of advice that can be given. That gave rise to total expenditure last year of just under £50 million. Fourthly, assistance by way of representation, known by the ugly acronym ABWOR, is an extension of the legal advice and assistance scheme which enables the solicitor to represent his client in certain circumstances, chiefly in domestic proceedings in the magistrates' courts, though it was extended in 1982 to cover mental health review tribunals and prison disciplinary hearings in 1984 and it gave rise last year to expenditure of £11·5 million. Finally, there are two statutory duty solicitor schemes. The first statutory scheme was introduced in 1983 and the other in 1986. The latter provides advice and assistance for people detained in police stations in connection with criminal charges. Last year expenditure on that amounted to £20 million.
With the exception of the duty solicitor schemes, all the schemes are means tested. By means of this funding during 1986, about 200,000 individuals received legal aid to bring or defend a civil case. About 500,000 received legal aid in connection with a criminal charge and about 1·2 million received advice and assistance from a solicitor.
The Government's commitment to an effective legal aid scheme was reaffirmed in the recent White Paper. The White Paper proposals, which will be taken forward in legislation in the coming Session as indicated in the Gracious Speech, are that in future responsibility for the administration of civil legal aid is to be transferred from the Law Society to a new, independent, legal aid board. In the context of the hon. Gentleman's remarks—I think that this will be of considerable interest — I draw the attention of the House to chapter IV of the White Paper dealing with future arrangements for the provision of legal advice. There are areas of the law in which the giving of advice is already more widely and effectively provided to many people by advice agencies such as the citizens advice bureaux and other agencies, rather than by local solicitors. Particular subjects, for example, are welfare benefits, housing, and employment. Such agencies, which are again largely funded locally, though with central Government
654
support as well, frequently have either lawyers among their staff or direct access to legal advice on points of law. In a number of fields, building on these developments, the Government believe that the present green form scheme may be able to be improved by a better service at lower cost. The Government are attracted to the principle of using the skills of advice agencies, especially to deal with those areas of work in which their special experience is likely to be greater than that of many solicitors in private practice.
The Government therefore intend to take powers to enable the new board to make alternative arrangements for the provision of advice and assistance for particular categories of work where this would be a more efficient way of providing the service.
The Government will require the board — and in these remarks I am taking up the White Paper—as an early task, to consider the most cost-effective way of providing advice and assistance, including specifically whether better arrangements might be made by making use of advice agencies. Once the board has set up suitable arrangements for contracting with agencies and other organisations for the provision of advice in the specified areas of work—for instance, advice on welfare benefits— these will be excluded altogether from the green form scheme.
Mr. Vaz: Does the Solicitor-General believe that justice should be cost-effective?
The Solicitor-General: I believe that in almost all elements of life, including Government, we should be as cost-effective as possible, and that must apply to justice as well as to other areas of expenditure.
The detailed arrangements could well involve tenders being sought for the provision of advice in the geographical areas covered by the board's area offices, and the form of coverage might well be different in different geographical areas. This may therefore provide a new opportunity for law centres and those who provide legal services through them. Either in their present form or perhaps a modified form, law centres might be able to improve their funding and extend the service that they provide by tendering for and obtaining contracts to provide advice and assistance in particular areas.
I should emphasise that the way ahead will depend on detailed proposals put forward by the new board at the time. The Government will need to be satisfied that all areas of the country are fully provided for in all types of work. Such moves towards new ways of delivering advice and assistance will take place only after the detailed arrangements for the change have been thoroughly worked out. Nevertheless, they offer potentially interesting and valuable opportunities both for those who work in law centres and the public who require such services. It must always be remembered, as my right hon. and learned Friend the Attorney-General stressed in the debate last week when discussing the future of the services provided by the Bar, that the guiding principle, when deciding how best to make available legal services of whatever kind, must always be the public interest.

Cancer Screening
12.59 pm
Mr. Timothy Raison:: I am grateful for the opportunity to raise the question of breast scanner provision for my constituents in and around Princes Risborough. I am also grateful to my hon. Friend the Minister for being here to reply to my remarks. There is no need for me to stress to my hon. Friend the importance of breast screening in the prevention and treatment of cancer, as I know that she and the Government are strongly committed to it. However, I should like to draw attention to the unfortunate circumstances that have arisen in my constituency, causing considerable local concern. Indeed, there is a strong sense of resentment over what seems an unfairness.
Briefly, the history is this. About four years ago, an appeal was launched in and around Aylesbury for a mobile breast screening or mammography unit, with the backing of Aylesbury Vale health authority and under the leadership of a consultant surgeon at Stoke Mandeville hospital—which, contrary to popular belief, is not just a spinal injuries unit, but the district and general hospital for the Aylesbury area. Stoke Mandeville is on the edge of Aylesbury.
There was a generous response to the appeal, and rightly so. Generosity was certainly shown by those living in the Princes Risborough area. The consultant surgeon who led the appeal told the people of Princes Risborough that they would be entitled to use the service: that is an important part of the story.
My constituents supported the appeal enthusiastically. Although it is not possible to say exactly how much was raised by the people of Princes Risborough, I have seen an estimate of about £3,000. Anyway, the usual energetic functions were launched. A bus was donated by, I believe, Luton airport; the money was raised, the unit was duly set up, based at Stoke Mandeville hospital, and the women of Princes Risborough were able to use it. For the most part, they had to go to Stoke Mandeville, rather than the mobile unit coming to Princes Risborough. But the distance between Princes Risborough and Stoke Mandeville is only five or six miles, and did not present any insuperable difficulties.
However, what was not fully understood, and perhaps was not sufficiently stressed by those who ran the operation, was that it was set up not in perpetuity, but only for a two-year trail period. At the end of that period, Aylesbury Vale health authority would make up its mind whether is should become permanent. Accordingly, after two years, the authority reviewed the operation and, very properly, decided to make permanent provision for screening women between the ages of 45 and 64. I give the authority credit for deciding to get on with that important process. However, it made another decision which had an adverse effect on my constituents — that the service would be available only to those living within the district of Aylesbury Vale health authority.
Princes Risborough is in a rather awkward position. It is an extemely pleasant and agreeable town which is doing very well, but it is in a kind of no man's land, lying roughly between Wycombe and Aylesbury and managing to fall between the two in various administrative ways. The district council is Wycombe, but the parliamentary constituency is Aylesbury. Princes Risborough patients
656
receive acute services from the Stoke Mandeville hospital in Aylesbury. Many people in Princes Risborough think of Stoke Mandeville as their hospital. However, for administrative purposes it lies within the territory of the Wycombe district hospital.
Stoke Mandeville provides both acute and other services, but preventive medicine is the responsibility of the Wycombe district council, the health authority for Princes Risborough. However, the mammography service was provided by the Aylesbury Vale health council. That is confusing, but what is much more important is that the Wycombe health authority does not yet provide a breast screening service. Therefore, the women of Princes Risborough no longer receive the breast screening service that they enjoyed during the two-year experiment by the Aylesbury Vale health authority, when they were able to go to Stoke Mandeville. They resent this, because they contributed generously towards the setting up of the service. It came as a considerable shock to them when they were told that they were no longer eligible for the service.
What are they to do about it? They could go private and pay £40 for breast screening; but £40 is quite a lot of money to pay for preventive screening of this kind, and not all my constituents would find it easy to fork out £40. If they are considered to be at risk, they can receive emergency treatment at Stoke Mandeville. It will not turn them away; doctors can refer patients to Stoke Mandeville for examination. Some individuals, of course, kick up such a fuss that they are taken on board, but that is not the right way to deal with the problem.
No screening service under the NHS is available to those women now. When the appeal was launched, they did not understand that it was to run for a two-year trial period. The consultant surgeon who led the appeal, unwittingly, I am sure, misled them. I do not make too much of that, because the consultant surgeon, who is well respected, was comparatively new to the district at the time and did not appreciate the administrative niceties. When he treated Princes Risborough patients he assumed that it was normal and that there was no demarcation.
Princes Risborough is now trapped in an administrative no man's land between Aylesbury and Wycombe. As the service has been withdrawn, a strong campaign has, not surprisingly, been mounted by a number of women in Princes Risborough. The Risborough and district community association, led by Mrs. Baker, has been particularly active in this cause.
Both the Ayles bury and the Wycombe health authorities have thought hard about what to do about it. Both I and other people have pressed them to take action, and the very conscientious Aylesbury general manager, Mr. Titley, has given close attention to the matter. Wycombe has also thought hard about it. Mr. Titley met the ladies of Princes Risborough to find out whether it would be possible to meet their request.
It was hoped that an interim solution could be found. It is clearly Wycombe's responsibility to offer preventive treatment. It was hoped that on Saturday mornings the mobile service could go to Princes Risborough and that Wycombe would pay for it but that Aylesbury would provide the service. I am afraid that that was not able to be brought about. There may have been problems about whether staff would want to work on Saturday mornings. I do not know exactly what happened. For one reason or another, it was not able to be put into effect.

657
As I understand it, Wycombe health authority is now working on plans to provide a district service. In a letter to me, it said that it is considering using Risborough for a pilot scheme. It is applying to the Oxford region for a share of the funds that are being made available from the DHSS to promote the service. I hope that something will come of that soon, but, for the moment, there is nothing in the immediate offing, and the feeling remains justifiably strong. What can my hon. Friend the Minister do about it? She is well known throughout the country for her positive approach to problems. She is not one to sit back and do nothing. I am quite confident that her positive approach will be manifested when she replies.
Certain things might be done. My hon. Friend could go back to Aylesbury and, once again, ask whether it might not, after all, be able to provide temporary cover for the people of Princes Risborough, presumably acting on an agency basis for Wycombe. There were serious discussions about it between the two authorities. They came to nothing. A debt of honour is owed to the people of Princes Risborough. It seems to be eminently reasonable for the Minister to go back and, once again, ask whether an interim solution can be found. If that is not possible, another possibility is worth thinking about; that is, to see whether for the time being one of the local private hospitals might be employed by one or other of the health authorities to provide an interim service. I have not gone into the matter in detail. I am not sure exactly whether facilities are available, but it is likely that they are. It will obviously be a matter of whether Wycombe should pay for them—presumably it would since it is the responsible authority—although it might be argued that, since, in a sense. Aylesbury has been involved in the history of the matter, it would be appropriate for Aylesbury to pay it. One way or another, it seems that there may be an interim answer by using a private hospital to provide what is not available in the National Health Service.
The other point is to urge the Wycombe authority and the Oxford region to proceed as fast as possible with the setting up of a proper breast screening unit. It is widely accepted that that is an important aspect of preventive medicine. The district general manager of the Wycombe health authority wrote to me on 28 April to say:
"We must now press on as quickly as possible with the establishment of a district service which will meet the needs of the Princes Risborough population."
I hope that my hon. Friend will endorse that view and do all that she can to try to make sure that it is brought about as soon as possible. The Oxford region is rather starved of money—that is not the topic of the debate—but there is a central Government commitment, and additional central Government funds are being made available. I hope that we may now see swift action to solve the serious problem that has caused much anxiety. I look forward to hearing my hon. Friend's response.
1.13 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Mrs. Edwina Currie): I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury (Mr. Raison) on his success in the ballot today. Once again, he represented his constituents with a determination and distinction that less experienced hon. Members watch so that we might learn how it is done. He may be aware that I was in Oxford last week and had the opportunity of meeting the chairmen of the district and
658
regional health authorities. We discussed many issues, including co-operation between districts, to which the subject of the debate is pertinent.
In 1984, a public appeal was launched by a consultant surgeon, Mr. Alan Taylor, at the Stoke Mandeville hospital to raise funds for a two-year pilot project to evaluate the need for a breast cancer screening service in the Aylesbury Vale district. The appeal was supported by the district health authority, and money was donated, as my right hon. Friend rightly said, not only by the residents of Aylesbury Vale but by the residents of Princes Risborough, Tring, Thame and Chinnor. A coach was donated by the Luton airport authority. It was converted into a mobile examination and screening unit into which a mammography unit and an X-ray film processor were fitted. This is an opportune moment to put on record our considerable appreciation of the tremendous efforts that have been made to help the women of that neighbourhood.
The survey started on 21 May 1984. During the following two years of the pilot project, the mobile unit never visited Princes Risborough, but remained in the boundaries of the Aylesbury Vale district health authority. The women from Princes Risborough used the self-referral service when the coach was parked in the car park at the Stoke Mandeville hospital, which was the nearest of the coach's venues to Princes Risborough.
From an examination of the records of the women who were screened during that two-year period, it seems that between 50 and 60 women residents of Princes Risborough managed to use the service. In 1985 the unit spent more than three months on site at Stoke Mandeville, which is the longest period that it spent anywhere. Clearly, it was of some value and use to the women of Princes Risborough.
Although Princes Risborough lies within the boundaries of Wycombe health authority, the residents of Princes Risborough generally look to Aylesbury Vale DHA for acute services. They are usually provided at Stoke Mandeville, which is the major district general hospital. It is now accepted that in the early days of the appeal the organisers may have given Princes Risborough residents to understand that the unit would visit their town. Perhaps, as my right hon. Friend has hinted, some of those concerned were not fully aware of the geographical boundaries or the administrative niceties of the Health Service, or of the corresponding different areas of responsibility of the two district health authorities concerned.
At the end of the two-year pilot project, an evaluation report was completed. That report was considered by the Aylesbury Vale district health authority at its meeting on 9 April 1986. On the basis of the evidence contained in the report of the pilot project, it was decided to develop a formal breast screening service for all women residents between the ages of 45 and 64 years, living within the Aylesbury Vale health district. Those women were to be identified individually and invited to attend for screening, using a letter sent by their general practitioner in April 1986. Unfortunately, some months elapsed between the decision being taken and formal notification of the new operational policy being sent to general practitioners in Aylesbury Vale, and to those on the boundaries. In fact, the letter was eventually sent on 21 November 1986. I have no indication as to why there was such a long delay.
However, the health authority agreed to fund the service from its growth money, using equipment paid for

659
out of the public appeal. The service could not be extended beyond the boundaries of the district, not only because of the increased financial resources that would be required, but because of an inability to cope with the greater work load. Before long, Aylesbury Vale health authority had received complaints and representations from many people including the Princes Risborough parish council, the Risborough community association and my right hon. Friend, stating that the service should be available for all women in the appropriate age group who were residents in Princes Risborough. Aylesbury Vale health authority has stuck to its opinion that the service cannot be extended to residents in other health authority areas.
Meanwhile, as my right hon. Friend knows, the Government had been taking steps of their own. During the approximate time period of these events, the Government had commissioned Professor Forrest from the university of Edinburgh to report to us on much the same basis as to whether a system of breast screening, based on mammography or on something else, would be appropriate for the population at large. During the late autumn of 1986 Professor Forrest and his team reported to us and the Forrest report, setting out in detail how such a programme could be organised and what it would cost, was sent to the Government. The report recommended that we should base the screening system on mammography—a system of low-energy X-rays.
My right hon. Friend the then Secretary of State announced on 25 February this year that the Government had accepted in full the proposals of the Forrest report that a breast cancer screening system should be set up throughout the United Kingdom. A draft circular setting out the proposed arrangements in England was issued on 31 March.
As I am sure my right hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury realises, we are the first country in the world to set up a screening programme that will be available for all women in the target age groups. That is a major first for this country and for this Government. I am pleased that the Government have recognised the needs of women and recognised also the importance of preventive health for the women of this country.
The services will provide a computerised call and recall system to screen women aged between 50 and 64 by mammography every three years. Older women will be screened if they wish; they are not being excluded. There is insufficient evidence so far to show that mass screening for younger women is effective in significantly reducing mortality. More research is required and is under way. The women who were coming in through the previous system in Aylesbury and Princes Risborough were coming from the age of 45. The recommendation of the Forrest report is that with the current state of the art the service is effective only from the age of 50. However, that is a matter we are keeping under review. Although women under 50 are not to be included in the screen population, any younger women at special risk—for example, if there appears to be an inherited tendency in the family—may be offered mammography if referred by the general practitioner.
A total of £6 million is being provided in 1987–88 to set up the centres in England. Each regional health authority is being funded by approximately one third of a million pounds to set up its first centre which would cover a
660
population of about 500,000. Four of the centres, which are at Guildford, Nottingham, Manchester and King's college hospital in Camberwell, will be funded to provide training for staff for the whole programme in England. The remaining centres, which total about 100 in all, will be set up during 1988–89 and 1989–90. In other words, it is a three-year programme.
All parts should have a service by 31 March 1990 and every eligible woman in this country should have been offered screening by 31 March 1993. The programme must be developed relatively slowly because of the need to train staff and to provide back-up facilities for diagnosis, treatment, counselling and aftercare. A total of 1,000 additional staff, all of whom need to be recruited and trained, will be involved and we are well aware of the importance of the advice given to us by Professor Forrest that at all times we must aim for a high quality of service, so we must not rush the training of the staff involved.
An advisory committee is being set up to advise on the development of the service, to monitor its effectiveness and efficiency and to advise on research concerned with its provision. The appointment of Professor Martin Vessey as chairman was announced on 8 April and the other members have now been appointed. Sir Roy Griffiths, the deputy chairman of the National Health Service management board, is leading a small team to oversee the implementation of the service.
My right hon. Friend may be aware of a parliamentary question which I answered on 23 July concerning the locations of the other 10 centres to be opened this year. The four main training centres have already been announced. The other 10 centres, adding up to one for each of the 14 regional health authorities, have now been announced and are Barnet, Epping. Liverpool, Stoke, Gateshead, Southampton, Huddersfield, Aylesbury Vale, Suffolk and Cornwall. The services at Epping, Huddersfield, Aylesbury Vale, Suffolk and Cornwall will be run from a mobile system.
Some of the regional health authorities are also planning to start further centres before March 1988, but by March 1990 there will be sufficient centres to provide a nationwide service. We have contacted the Oxford regional health authority, which tells us that it is establishing its first breast cancer screening service in line with the recommendations in the Forrest report. As I have just mentioned, it will be in Aylesbury Vale. The population to be serviced by this centre has not been finally determined. It will mainly depend on the arrangements to be made with the family practitioner committees for the operation of the computerised call and recall system, but it will be normal to cover more than one district. Indeed, we are recommended to provide centres which will cover some half a million people in order to make the system cost-effective. That implies more than one district.
In any event, Oxford regional health authority expects the population of Princes Risborough to be provided with the full computerised call and recall breast cancer screening service before March 1989. In other words, Princes Risborough, although not part of the first tranche, will certainly be part of the second tranche of the service being provided.
The problem is that for the next 18 months the residents of Princes Risborough—many of whom contributed to the appeal that launched the voluntary service at Aylesbury Vale and some of whom used it when it was

661
located at Stoke Mandeville hospital — will not have access to a service. I have listened carefully to what my right hon. Friend has said and I will take up his suggestion and draw it to the attention of the appropriate health authority chairmen. I agree with my right hon. Friend that we are not talking about an enormous expenditure, an enormous number of women or something that will go on indefinitely. The Health Service is to provide a screening service within the fairly near future.
It is important to bear in mind that only some 50 to 60 women in Princes Risborough used the service. Given that a scan is recommended at three-year intervals only, most of them would not expect to be recalled until the new service is in use. However, I recognise that if some women used the voluntary service in 1984 or 1985 their need for another scan might come up during the gap in provision.
I offer my right hon. Friend two thoughts on this matter. First, there are other systems of detection, such as self-examination. We would always strongly recommend that women undertake breast self-examination under the guidance and assistance of their general practitioners or with other groups in their community. That practice normally reveals anything that is possibly giving rise to concern. Women should certainly examine their breasts. Secondly, if there is anything wrong, nobody should wait for a letter from their general practitioner or from a computer—that applies to all screening systems. Around a quarter of a million women a year find something wrong with one or possibly both of their breasts. We pick up about 25,000 cases of breast cancer a year, but sadly there are some 15,000 deaths. The scheme is designed to reduce the death toll from breast cancer. However, nine out of 10 breast lumps are cysts that are benign. They need treatment if only because of the psychological benefit to the patient concerned. I am sure that my right hon. Friend will join me in urging any woman who discovers anything that she is not happy with to go to see her general practitioner at once and insist on being properly examined and treated.
The problem that we face here stems from a misunderstanding about the scope of the original voluntary service. I share the sense of regret felt by those
662
in the districts concerned. We must consider the following lessons. It is most important to be absolutely clear for whose benefit an appeal for funds is made. Secondly, there should be a clear, written and publicised agreement with the health authorities that will demonstrate who will run the service, who will start it, who will pay for it and, in the long term, who will replace the equipment. It is not good enough to provide a service once and then go through the hassle of raising more money when equipment requires replacing.
The enthusiasm of the appeal organisers in 1984 was tremendously commendable. However, it is clear that enthusiasm is not enough. Clear protocols are needed with regard to the service and links between the private sector, the appeal organisers and the health authorities. I say that with feeling having come across this sort of thing in my time as a district health authority chairman. I hope that these warnings will serve to avoid similar difficulties in the future when appeals are launched.
I have given the undertaking that I will write to the district health authority chairmen concerned and I am asking the regional chairman to look at the problem, take into account the issues that have been mentioned today and to report back to me. I will ensure that the points that my right hon. Friend has made are fully discussed. I will let my right hon. Friend know the outcome of those discussions.
I am sure that my right hon. Friend will join me in commending both the original organisers of the scheme and all those now concerned with it in their efforts to improve the health and the death rate of women from this appalling disease within that neighbourhood.
Mr. Raison: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the tone of her response and for the information that she has given. I look forward to hearing the results. I am sure that she will get the message over strongly that we do not need an enormous operation to deal with the interim period.
Mrs. Currie: My right hon. Friend and I are together on that point. I hope that, overall, there will be a major improvement in the services to women in his constituency.

Smith Houses
1.29 pm
Mr. Peter Snape: I applied for this Adjournment debate on the last day of term to bring to the attention of the House the plight of those in my constituency and in other constituencies in the west midlands, including yours, Madam Deputy Speaker, who have purchased their Smith-type homes under various schemes and the tenants of similar houses who are waiting for repairs to be carried out. The local authorities are expected to pay for those repairs out of their increasingly meagre housing investment allocations.
In the case of Sandwell—our local authority, Madam Deputy Speaker— those allocations have decreased from £12·3 million in 1986–87 to £10·5 million in 1987–88. Sandwell's application for the current year was about £55 million, and this miserly funding from central Government means that the council will have to operate its repairs programme under enormous pressure, Smith-type and other defective properties apart. Housing officials have estimated that, given the rate of housing allocation from the Government, it will take until the year 2013 for all pre-second world war properties in the borough of Sandwell to be modernised. Some of the council properties built between 1945 and 1964 will probably also require major repairs.
You and I, Madam Deputy Speaker, hold some of our surgeries at West Bromwich town hall. I know, because we discuss these matters, that you and I see a continuing and apparently non-stop stream of people who have housing problems. The same happens to my hon. Friend the Member for Warley, East (Mr. Faulds) and my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Warley, West (Mr. Archer). Our constituents come to see us about the lack of repairs to their properties or the need for swifter action by the council to carry out those repairs. None of the four of us has any direct responsibility for such matters, but it would take a braver man than me to tell some of my constituents that. I know that you and our two colleagues refer our constituents' complaints by letter to the housing department, but the reply is always the same: "We do not have the money adequately to repair the properties that we own." I accept that that must be the case, given the cut in housing improvement programme allowances in recent years. Therefore, the solution for those who live in Smith-type houses recedes with every year that the HIP allocation is cut.
The problem cannot be accurately described as a national one, but it is of regional concern, with most affected houses concentrated in the west and east midlands and in south Wales. I understand that about 4,500 properties were built using the system. The Building Research Establishment report on the structural condition of Smith houses was published as long ago as December 1983, and it concluded that they all suffer from some defects. It said that the houses showed cracks at the junctions of the concrete blocks and between the external and partition walls. The BRE also found that some Smith houses in Birmingham were seriously defective because of the use of shale fill in the foundations.
Those details have been debated previously in the House, not least by you, Madam Deputy Speaker. In the previous Session, before you took up your present post, you initiated a similar debate and received an answer from
664
the Minister at that time which was similar to the one that I fear I will receive from this new Minister. Although I congratulate the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mrs. Roe) on her swift elevation to her present position, and without anticipating the brief that has been prepared for her or the fact that she will no doubt deliver it as elegantly as ever, I hope that the pleas of you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and of myself on behalf of our constituents will not fall on stony ground. I should not really say that because it sounds ungallant, but the House will know what I mean.
The stark fact is that, although the BRE report was published in 1983, in July 1987 there is still no approved and licensed repair to the Smith properties, and owners, tenants and councils alike are in a state of limbo, in which they have existed ever since the structural problems of the houses first became seriously apparent. I, and those owners, have become tired of the complacency exhibited by successive Conservative Ministers.
The right to buy has been a much trumpeted venture on the part of the Government. Indeed, in the recent election campaign it formed a central plank of their manifesto and appeal to the electorate, as it did in 1983. I make no complaint about that, but little or nothing is heard of the plight of those people who have exercised the right to buy their homes from local authorities and who now find themselves facing personal economic disaser. Their plight might not cut much ice with those who can afford to be in the two or perhaps three home-owning league, but it does with me. In the surgeries to which I referred earlier, in addition to the pleas for repairs from tenants of council-owned property in the borough of Sandwell, I have heard heart-rending cases of hardship from those owners who have been unforunate enough in the past to purchase Smith-type houses. They see no real prospect of re-purchase in the immediate future; they have waited in vain for years for an approved system of repair. They have set up a national scheme to enable the owners of Smith houses to have some communication with each other. The national secretary of that scheme, Mrs. Sylvia Holden, resides in your constituency, Madam Deputy Speaker, rather than in mine, but I do not think that I breach any parliamentary protocol when I tell you that she has been to see me on behalf of those constituents of mine who are in a similar position to hers.
What is perhaps far worse for her and the people whom she represents is that they have probably made the largest single purchase of their lives. They are acutely aware of the suspicions of prospective buyers if they try to sell their homes on the open market. It is futile to point out—it has been pointed out in the House by Ministers—that some of the homes have less serious defects than others. I assure the Minister that, to people who are planning to purchase a house in those areas of the country in which Smith properties are most densely located, it matters not whether they are founded on shale, quicksand or the rock of Gibraltar. They are still Smith houses, and it quickly becomes apparent that they are; and, as such, they have about as much allure to the prospective buyer as Dracula's castle.
I have with me a letter from a firm of local estate agents, valuers and surveyors that was written to one of my constituents — Mrs. Dulleston, of 57 William Green road, Wednesbury — as long ago as July 1985. In the letter, the company, Shipley Cameron, states:

665
"The vast majority of all Building Societies are not now entertaining applications for Smith-type houses and this obviously seriously affects their sale price."
That, perhaps, ranks as the understatement of that year, but it is true now as it was then. As a result of meetings that were held about that time — I know that you, Madam Deputy Speaker, were responsible for convening them, and both of us spoke at them—it was suggested by some owners of these properties that some discreet pressure might be applied by the Government to building societies to make them look sympathetically at the plight of those who were considering applying for mortgages for houses of that type. As long ago as 1985, the estate agents Shipley Cameron referred to that suggestion:
"It has been suggested that Government pressure may be brought to bear discreetly on Building Societies to take a lenient view of the Smith-type construction when considering mortgage finance. I feel that this attitude is rather naive because, as I have mentioned before, Building Societies have a duty of responsibility to their investing members to act wisely. Furthermore, I must underline that Building Society Valuers, upon whose advice the Building Society advance mortgage monies, will be concerned about any possible future negligence claims having recommended a house for mortgage finance with potential structural defects."
Not much prospect is held out there, but there was one optimistic note in the letter:
"If, however, the properties are included in the list of defective houses under the Housing Defects Act of 1984, the problem should resolve itself insomuch that Purchasers, Building Societies, and their valuers will have some protection, against potential defects in Law.
Until such time as this happens I have to tell you that your property is virtually unsaleable and I, together with my colleagues in my Profession, await to see how the situation resolves itself."
Thanks in no small part to the campaign that you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I and other colleagues in the borough of Sandwell waged, and the efforts of Members from other parts of the country, Smith houses have been included in the list under the 1984 Act. However, that has brought little comfort to your constituents or mine, Madam Deputy Speaker, because the shoddy tale of prevarication on the part of the Government has continued, although one must admit that it has been consistent with their political philosophy. Ministers continue to vaunt the private enterprise philosophy and to adopt the principle that the weakest go to the wall when unfortunate individuals such as my constituents try private enterprise and fail. At a recent meeting in Sandwell to discuss the cost of repair of dwellings of this type, an estimate of £20,000 per dwelling was given. On that basis, repairs to Smith properties in Sandwell alone will cost nearly £6 million. The Minister will no doubt remind us that the Government recently allocated a further £388,000 in addition to the figure mentioned earlier for the current year, but that is intended to cover all similar defective properties.
It should be recalled that potential purchasers of such properties are usually first-time buyers with little deposit money and requiring maximum mortgage facilities. It may be argued that if the original purchaser had had a proper structural survey carried out at the time of purchase, the defects might have been revealed. However, there was no legal requirement to spend several hundred pounds on such a survey and it is understandable that people purchasing from a local authority a property in which they had lived trouble-free for some years did not think it necessary to embark on the extra expense of a full structural survey.
666
The additional £388,000 is scarcely generous. In the borough of Sandwell there are 3,354 properties of non-traditional construction, of which 859 are Smith houses. In that situation, the Government's additional funding is a mere drop in the bucket and will go no way at all to meeting the understandable fears of owners of Smith houses or of the remaining tenants who live in these rapidly crumbling and less than palatial dwellings.
My point to the Minister is blunt, short and specific. When will the Government make adequate funds available so that councils such as mine can repair or repurchase those sort of dwellings? Councils have listened to enough funny words. They thought that they had won a major victory when they were included tinder the Housing Defects Act 1984. I am afraid that such inclusion is of no value unless some extra cash from the Government is forthcoming.
1.45 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Mrs. Marion Roe): I am grateful to the hon. Member for West Bromwich, East (Mr. Snape) for giving us the opportunity to discuss these issues. My Department's officials met representatives of the Sandwell and Districts National Smiths PRC Owners Association earlier this year and I know that they found the meeting very useful. It gave them a clear picture of the problems of Smith owners nationally. The hon. Member has understandably focused on the problems of Smith houses in Sandwell today. However, I would like to take the opportunity to set out the background to the problem generally and to say something about how the housing defects legislation — now consolidated in the Housing Act 1985—was introduced to deal with it.
When the Building Research Establishment first discovered serious problems with the Airey-type house in 1981, and subsequently found that these problems also affected other prefabricated reinforced concrete houses designed before 1960, former tenants who had exercised their right to buy were faced with immediate problems of mortgageability and blight. We could have relied on the principle of caveat emptor and turned our backs on the problem.
However, we recognised that the Government had a responsibility to those owners who had bought in good faith from the public sector, in ignorance of the inherent defects and that they could not have foreseen these problems when they bought. They now find themselves in an impossible position.
We therefore introduced first the voluntary Airey scheme of assistance in response to the initial Airey problem. Then we brought in the more comprehensive scheme of assistance under the housing defects legislation. The Housing Defects Act 1984—as it was known before it was consolidated in the Housing Act—had all-party support in its passage through Parliament and it was welcomed as a generous scheme to owners. Smith houses were only recently brought within this legislation.
The Building Research Establishment was originally commissioned to study Smith houses at the time that the Act was going through Parliament. Its findings did not indicate that designation was warranted at that stage. The Smith house is built of large concrete blocks. Although it is another type of concrete house, it does not have the load-bearing reinforcement found in the PRC-type house. Some steel was placed in the blocks for handling purposes,

667
but it is structurally redundant. However, following further representations, particularly from Birmingham Members, as well as the hon. Member for West Bromwich, West (Miss Boothroyd), we asked the BRE to look further at Smith houses in Sandwell. It found vertical splitting and cracking, caused by deterioration of the steel handling reinforcement bars in the concrete blocks. This could ultimately threaten structural stability.
We considered these findings, and other information on loss in values and so on. We concluded that we should designate nationally. My hon. Friend the Member for Oxford, East (Mr. Patten) announced this on 19 December 1985. Smith houses were formally designated on 1 May 1986. We also made sure that, when the national designation was made, this would not rule out additional problems found in the foundations at Smith houses in Sandwell. We did this by holding back national designation of the handling bar defect, to give authorities, like Sandwell, time to make local designations to cover the foundation problem.
We always made it clear that we were prepared to look at this matter if new evidence came to light and, when it did, we recognised the very real problems facing Smith owners. We should not overlook this when we discuss some of the particular problems raised by the hon. Member today, and which I know are worrying Smith owners.
Eligible owners are entitled to a 90 per cent. local authority grant to reinstate the property, or 100 per cent. grant in financial hardship cases. Where repair is not possible or is not economic, assistance will still be available by repurchase at 95 per cent. of the defect-free value in relation to both the Smith handling bar defect and the foundation defect.
As to reinstatement under the Act, we are now making good progress on approved repair methods. The National House Building Council's subsiduary, PRC Homes Ltd., has approved 38 repair systems covering 10 designated house types and 24 more schemes are in the pipeline. These approved methods cover over two thirds of designated houses in private ownership. Last autumn, we increased the grant expenditure limits for most of the designated house types, including Smith. The new limit for Smith is £20,000 to deal with the handling bar defect. Where houses in Sandwell also suffer from the use of shale in foundations, owners are entitled to a further grant of up to £14,000 to deal with that problem.
Repairs are now getting under way in many areas of the country. Over 2,000 properties have either been repaired or are currently in the process of repair under the PRC Homes Ltd. warranty scheme. This is what most of us hoped would happen when we brought in this legislation — we know that local authorities and owners want it too. That is not to say that we do not recognise some of the very real pressures facing some owners and their authorities.
As the hon. Member is aware, many Smith owners are anxious to know when they will receive the assistance to which they are entitled and what form that will take. All designations under the Act lay down a 10-year period of assistance, and owners will get their assistance during this period. We should all remember that the Act does not lay
668
down a timetable and the timing of any decisions on individual owners' applications is in the hands of the authority concerned.
That said, the Act does provide help for owners who need to move quickly, under the hardship provisions. These allow owners to claim assistance by repurchase if it would be unreasonable for them to await repair. Decisions on such cases are made at the local authority's discretion. We have given broad guidance in circulars to authorities on the kind of circumstances in which they might offer repurchase on hardship grounds. We look to local authorities to operate the Act in a reasonable way but, ultimately owners who are not satisfied with their council's decision can take the matter to the county court. We would hope that it would not come to this.
The hon. Member has raised the question of repair methods for Smith houses and has referred to delay in obtaining a licensed system. Although it has taken some time satisfactorily to resolve all the technical details, there are signs of some real progress here. A firm of repairers, W. G. Curtin, has submitted a Smith repair system to PRC Homes Ltd. for approval. We understand that this system has now been professionally appraised. We would hope that a licensed repair system for Smith houses will be available before very long. Obviously, Smith houses are somewhat different from PRC type houses and it is important that any repair method proposed meets the requirements of the Act. The repaired property must have an expected life of at least 30 years, and it must be generally accepted as mortageable for the purpose of the Act. That is why any repair system for Smith houses should be appraised carefully, so that the problem can be dealt with properly once and for all.
The grant expenditure limit for Smith houses was increased to £20,000 only last autumn. It is too early to say whether this will represent the average cost of repair, but the situation should become clear once a repair system has emerged.
I know that resources are of particular concern to the hon. Gentleman. The initial 1987–88 housing investment programme allocations were notified to local authorities in December last year. Sandwell received the second highest allocation among the local authorities in the west midlands region, and its estimate of expenditure this year is higher in real terms than that for each of the last two years. We generally expect authorities to be able to meet their obligations on housing defects grants or repurchase from within their normal housing programme resources—in other words, from their basic HIP allocation plus the prescribed proportion of capital receipts. In Sandwell's overall review of management, 1985–86, in the section on resources it says:
"Almost any new initiative will cost money, but the Council is by no means short of it".
The same report quoted substantial reserves in the region of £24 million. Interest alone on that sum would amount to at least £2 million per annum.
However, £14 million extra HIP resources for 1987–88 were set aside nationally for authorities facing particularly high housing defects obligations in relation to the rest of their capital programmes. Sandwell was one of the many authorities to apply for an additional allocation, and in recognition of its particular problems it received an additional £388,000 — the third highest total figure among the claims from other authorities in the region.
Mr. Snape: I want to put two quick points as I understand the time factor. If Sandwell is such a rich authority, why are the Government, who are not renowned for chucking money at local authorities, granting a parsimonious but nevertheless extra amount of £388,000? Secondly, is the Minister aware that there are about 90 of these properties in my constituency alone, there are four times as many in the adjacent constituency of West Bromwich, West and there are plenty of others in the two Warley constituencies? Is it not a question of cash? Sandwell does not have that cash.
Mrs. Roe: I have noted the hon. Gentleman's points. However, the Government have acted fairly towards Sandwell as well as towards many other authorities in this connection.
In conclusion, we are continuing to monitor the position. This year's round of HIP meetings should give my Department's regional office a valuable update. The precise pattern of expenditure under the Housing Defects Act 1984 is not easy to predict. Much depends on when owners apply, what form assistance is likely to take, taking account of the availability and like cost of repair methods, as well as any urgent hardship cases.
Even if large numbers of owners do apply, the cases, for many reasons, do not necessarily crystallise for some time. That is why my Department encourages local authorities and owners to co-operate and reach an agreement on a likely timetable for assistance. That should take full account of owners' needs as well as overall resource availability. We know of many areas where authorities and owners have agreed such programmes, for example, in Bristol, Epping Forest and Birmingham. We believe that, with good will all round, sensible programmes are achievable which are acceptable to all the parties involved.

Bromley (Government Planning Policy)
2 pm
Mr. Roger Sims: I am grateful for the opportunity to raise the effect of Government planning policies in the London borough of Bromley. I am grateful also to my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for attending this, her third debate today. I hope that she will find a special interest in this debate, she being a past member of the council of the London borough of Bromley. I believe that she still has a home within the borough.
I wish to discuss planning procedures in built-up areas, covering extensions and in-fillings, and applications for development within the green belt. I do so in the context of Bromley, but the issues that I shall raise have a wider interest, as was demonstrated in the earlier debate that was raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Berkshire, East (Mr. MacKay).
Planning is a sensitive issue. We all know that an Englishman's home is his castle, and we expect, if we want to, to be able to extend our own home and do whatever we wish to it. It is an entirely different matter, however, if the chap next door wants to extend his home. If we buy a site on which to build our own home, we expect to be able to build the sort of house that we want. If someone else purchases an open space in our neighbourhood and wants to build, we react strongly to the spoiling of our surroundings.
There has to be a correct balance in these matters between the rights of the individual and the rights and needs of the community. The body that exists to strike it is the local council, which is the planning authority. In doing so it is guided by town planning laws, Department of the Environment guidelines, the town plan and members of the local authority who have an intimate knowledge of the area. Local councillors are especially important because every planning case is individual and a development that may be entirely appropriate on one site may be entirely unsuitable on another site nearby.
It can be argued that the local authority should be the final arbiter in these matters, but even councillors are human beings with weaknesses and foibles:. They may make mistakes, and in any event natural justice suggests that there should be some system of appeal. Appeal is, theoretically, to the Secretary of State, but we know that in practice these matters are handled by inspectors whom he appoints. The inspectors receive written statements and they might make a site visit. In some instances there will be an inquiry.
The appeal system is somewhat one-sided. If an applicant applies for a development and he is refused by the local authority, he has the right of appeal. There may have been a number of local objections to the proposal, however, and if, despite the objections, the council decides to grant the application, the objectors have no right of appeal. It seems there should be a system whereby in some circumstances at least objectors have a right of appeal, or that in circumstances where there are objections the Secretary of State should call in the plan and examine it himself.
The presumption behind planning laws is, or at least has been, that the local authority knows best, and I am concerned that between 1983 and 1986 the national figures show that the proportion of appeals allowed increased from 32·4 per cent. to 40·5 per cent. That is a large enough

671
increase in itself, but over the same period in Bromley the number of appeals allowed increased from 29 per cent. to 44 per cent.
It is worth examining some of the decisions. For example, in Beckenham an entire house that was used as office accommodation without planning permission clearly contravened the local plan in respect of loss of residential accommodation. The enforcement notice that was issued by the council was quashed and permission was granted on appeal. In Orpington, permission was refused on four separate occasions and two appeals were dismissed for the erection of a dwelling house. Towards the end of last year permission was granted on appeal, despite the fact that the house would have virtually no garden. In Chislehurst high street, permission was granted on appeal for car repairs on a prominent site within the Chislehurst conservation area. I see my hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Mr. Neubert) in the Chamber. Alas, he is mute; but, if he were not, he could say that he was until very recently a constituent of mine. Application was made a couple of years ago for development of a site near to where he lived. That application was refused. The applicant took it to appeal, and was refused again. This year, he tried yet again. His application was refused by the local council, but it has now been allowed.
That seems a fairly typical pattern. Applicants who have been refused in the past are now resurrecting their proposals and trying again, because they believe that they will win on appeal. Alas, the figures suggest that they may well be right.
There is particular concern in the borough about applications for intensive flats and sheltered accommodation development in areas of predominantly low-density suburban housing. I have details of six such sites in the borough. In each case, the application for development was refused by the council; in each case, the decision has been overturned on appeal. The borough has a local plan adopted two years ago after a public inquiry. It incorporates the suggestions of the Department of the Environment inspector who conducted the inquiry, and the Department of the Environment was consulted throughout its compilation. The plan includes proposals relating to the pattern and number of dwellings to be built over a decade. However, because of what has been happening under the appeal system, we are already well ahead of those figures, and the character and amenities of parts of the area are being altered. The wishes of local people, residents' associations, councillors and, ultimately, the authority itself are being overturned.
The council wrote to the Department expressing concern at the trend. The reply from an official suggested that the increased number of successful appeals nationally corresponds to the increased rate of refusals by the authorities. That may be so nationally, but it is not so in Bromley. Between 1984 and 1986 there was no material increase in the number of refusals in Bromley, but the proportion of appeals allowed increased from 29 per cent. to 44 per cent.
I am bound to ask who is in charge of planning in Bromley. The council draws up a local plan, it seeks to control development according to it, and according to DOE guidelines and good planning practice, and it is continually undermined. It is not surprising that officers and councillors are becoming demoralised, and are
672
sometimes tempted simply to rubber-stamp applications even if they are inappropriate, because they feel that if they do not agree to them, they will in any case be allowed on appeal.
I have referred to the Chislehurst conservation area. There are a number of conservation areas in the borough, the most recently designated being in Bickley, which is also in my constituency. In an admirable document describing how it intends to control development, the council sent to each resident its policy for conservation areas. Representations have been made to me by my constituents asking me to support the council, and to defend the conservation area policy which it fears is likely to be endangered by the decisions of Department of the Environment inspectors.
It seems sad that my constituents, who are anxious to maintain the quality of their surroundings, are not looking to the Department for the protection of their environment, but are asking me to protect them from the Department. I plead with my hon. Friend the Minister to examine carefully how the appeal procedure is operated. Has there been a change of policy which the inspectors are implementing? Are the inspectors perhaps less diligent, or less sensitive? Are they misinterpreting departmental guidelines? I do not know the answers to those questions, but 44 per cent. of appeals being upheld must mean that something is wrong, and I urge my hon. Friend to put matters right.
There is a substantial area of green belt land in the borough, particularly in the constituency of my hon, Friend the Member for Orpington (Mr. Stanbrook). My hon. Friend the Minister for Housing and Planning has set out the Government's policy on the green belt on several occasions, most notably in a speech to a Confederation of British Industry's conference in October 1986. That policy was summarised succinctly in reply to a question that I tabled on 19 November 1986. The Minister said:
"There is a general presumption aganst inappropriate development throughout the green belts."
I do not doubt that there is such a presumption, but that does not prevent applications from being made.
The whole of the London borough of Bromley is particularly concerned about a proposal that involves Hewitts farm, which is now a pick-it-yourself strawberry farm. The owner and Prudential Insurance are planning a massive regional shopping and leisure centre, comprising shopping malls, restaurants, bars, cinemas, sports facilities and a garden centre. That is utterly contrary to the borough's green belt policy, and the council quite rightly has refused the application. We await the almost inevitable appeal and all that that involves. It will be to no purpose, because the appeal will not be allowed. My hon. Friend the Minister surely cannot allow it. I do not expect my hon. Friend to comment on this application, for obvious reasons. However, it will be allowed only over the dead bodies of the four hon. Members who represent Bromley constituencies. Furthermore, it would open the door to similar developments all round the M25. The Government's green belt policy would be in ruins.
Even if the matter goes to appeal and is refused, there is nothing to stop another application being made. That is ridiculous. There is nothing to prevent you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, or me, from making an application for anywhere in the green belt and sparking off the whole process of council consideration, refusal, appeal, and again refusal,

673
with all the costs that are involved and the generation of great local concern, resulting in public meetings and petitions—all to no purpose.
In the question to which I referred I asked my hon. Friend the Minister to
"seek powers to enable him to designate certain green belt land as inviolable areas in respect of which he would not be prepared to entertain planning applications or appeals in relation thereto." — [Official Report, 19 November 1986; Vol. 105, c. 241–42.]
The reply was that it was not considered to be necessary to take such a power. I am asking my hon. Friend to think again. Surely it would be practicable to take such a power.
I am delighted that my hon. Friend the Member for Esher (Mr. Taylor) is an ally. In an Adjournment debate on 13 July he made the very good point that if property developers
"were told that there would never be an opportunity for them to have land banks in the green belt—because they would never be given the right to develop them—they might turn their ingenuity, enthusiasm and financial acumen to some of our inner-city areas of derelict land."—[Official Report, 13 July 1987; Vol. 199, c. 745.]
Surely it should be possible to designate certain parts of the green belt as inviolable for, say, 10 years, with a review thereafter. Potential developers would then be in no doubt about their position. They would not waste their time and energy and cause concern to others by submitting planning applications. The fears of my constituents and of all those who care about the green belt would then be put at rest.
On behalf of the people of Bromley, my message to my hon. Friend and to her erstwhile colleagues on Bromley council is that she should ensure as a general principle that appeal inspectors support and do not undermine a council's planning policy and that our green belt should be made safe from those who wish to despoil it.
Sir Philip Goodhart rose——
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Harold Walker): Order. Does the hon. Member for Beckenham (Sir P. Goodhart) have the consent of the hon. Member for Chislehurst (Mr. Sims) and the Minister to speak in the debate? I see that he does.
2.14 pm
Sir Philip Coodhart: I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Chislehurst (Mr. Sims) on securing the debate. I wholly endorse his powerful and sensible speech. During the recent general election campaign, I walked around most of my constituency. I can well understand the anxiety that is felt by many of my constituents about some recent decisions that have been taken by Department of the Environment inspectors. Many such decisions, such as the one that allowed the Sunday market at Beckenham junction, have caused great annoyance and aggravation. My constituents fear that piecemeal decisions by inspectors are undermining sensible local planning policies. As my hon. Friend powerfully reminded us, in the three-year period 1984–86 there was no material increase in the number of applications that were rejected by Bromley council, yet the number of successful appeals has gone up from 29 per cent. to 44 per cent. Not surprisingly, during that period, the number of appeals doubled from 171 to 336.
What can he done? As the Minister knows, I have made two suggestions to her. The first suggestion is that she should hold regular meetings with hon. Members who
674
represent similar constituencies to discuss the implementation by inspectors of Department of the Environment guidelines. The second suggestion is that hon. Members should be allowed to play a more important role in the appeal procedure and that inspectors should be reminded that substantial weight should be given to their views when constituents' amenities are affected.
We have great confidence in the abilities and sensibilities of the new Minister, who once was a Bromley councillor. I am sure that she will effectively stop the destruction of pleasant neighbourhoods.
2.16 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Mrs. Marion Roe): I am particularly grateful to my hon. Friends the Members for Chislehurst (Mr. Sims) and for Beckenham (Sir P. Goodhart) for putting the issues before the House. I have listened most carefully to all the points that they have made about their concerns over certain aspects of the Government's planning policies as they affect the London borough of Bromley. I am pleased to be able to reply to the debate. As my hon. Friends have said, I retain a close interest in the affairs of the borough, having been a councillor in Bromley for three years. I do, of course, have a personal knowledge of some of the issues that have been raised, especially the developments adjacent to the ward that I represented on Bromley council.
My hon. Friend the Member for Chislehurst has drawn attention to the pleasant environment that is enjoyed by the borough and the importance of the green belt to it. Bromley is most fortunate in having within its boundaries what is, I believe, the largest area of green belt of any of the London boroughs. From my own experience, I am well aware of the great value that Bromley people place on the lovely countryside in and around the borough. I also know how well managed the borough is. Within the context of the debate, Bromley is, for example, third in the London league in the speed of processing planning applications.
Over the past five years, Bromley has spent at or below the Government's expenditure guidelines. That prudence has allowed the council to benefit the ratepayers of Bromley with a local rate that has consistently been among the lowest in outer London. It is, of course, the quality of the countryside, coupled with the character of residential areas, which Bromley residents wish to protect. Inevitably, such a thriving area is under considerable pressure for development. Not surprisingly, others wish to share that prosperity, and the pressures for development are therefore intense. It is those pressures, and the apparent results of them, to which my hon. Friend has drawn my attention. Not only does the council aim to protect the countryside, but it has imaginative schemes for the enhancement of its built-up areas. My predecessor, Lord Skelmersdale, visited the borough last month to see the progress on the "Green and Clean" campaign. He was, I know, impressed by what he saw.
I am sure that my hon. Friend will understand that I cannot comment on the various planning decisions that have been issued or are in train. That would be quite improper. However, I should like to respond in general terms to the points that have been raised. If I fail to deal with any, I shall, of course, write to my hon. Friend about them.
I am aware of the considerable concern in Bromley about the increase in the number of appeals that are being

675
allowed. This is understandably seen by some as undermining the authority of the local planning authority. My hon. Friend asked a question on this subject only last December. I have also received correspondence on the same point from my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham. Furthermore, the chief planner of the borough has written to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State.
It is a fact that since 1983 there has been a significant increase in the proportion of appeals allowed, not only in Bromley, but nationally. However, there has also been, in the relevant period, a marked increase in the rate at which local planning authorities refuse applications for planning permission — from 12·8 per cent. in 1983 to 14·9 per cent. in 1986. In absolute numbers, this amounts nationally to 11,000 more refusals a year.
To place those figures in their context, the House should know that in the same period planning applications increased in total by 14,000. There was no change in national planning policies or in development plan policies that would have justified that increase in the rate of refusal. The Government have no wish to undermine local authorities carrying out their responsibilities, but our inspectors have been taking these national policies into account, and have taken different views from local planning authorities in a large number of cases.
As far as refusal of planning permission in Bromley is concerned, the rate of refusal during 1984 to 1986 has been about six percentage points higher than in London and England as a whole. As my hon. Friend has said, it is true that there was no material increase in refusals in Bromley between 1984 and 1986, but Bromley's refusal rate rose from 17 and 15 per cent. in 1982 and 1983 to 21 and 22 per cent. in the following three years. So it is not surprising that the percentage of appeals allowed rose. However, it is now back in line with the national average.
We should also keep the increase in the percentage of appeals allowed in perspective. The applications permitted as a result of appeal represent less than 2 per cent. of the 350,000 or so planning permissions given each year. Some commentators allege that my Department's circular 14/85 was responsible for the increase, but this circular was no more than a simple reminder of the general presumption in favour of allowing applications for development, having regard to all material considerations, unless that development would cause demonstrable harm to interests of acknowledged importance. The principle is as old as the 1947 planning system and the key words were repeated from circulars issued in 1949 and 1953. The principle was again restated in 1985 in the White Paper "Lifting the Burden".
I note that Bromley council is concerned that the Department and inspectors are not taking proper account of the local plan in allowing appeals. That is not so. The White Papers "Lifting the Burden" and "Building Businesses … Nor Barriers" specifically referred to the need for development plans, and our consultation paper on the future of development plans equally emphasises the importance of such plans in our system of planning control. The latter said that they were a vital part of the framework for development control and that, while they are not prescriptive, they provide a firm basis for rational and consistent decisions on applications.
676
I do not want to understate the problems that face planning authorities. We face a considerable problem of reconciling throughout the south-east the pressures for housing on the one hand with the need to conserve the environment on the other. We all accept that there are difficult decisions to be taken on whether and where to allow development. The main vehicle for resolving these differences is the development plan, which is why we place such importance on streamlining.
In each appeal case, the inspector must carefully consider the development plan policies. I am well aware that Bromley is concerned that its plan is not accorded sufficient weight by inspectors, but I must underline that it is only one of the factors which must be weighed in the balance. An inspector will set aside the provisions of the plan only with good reason and he must give a clear explanation why he does so in his report. Similarly the views of local people are also given considerable weight in planning matters and, again, in giving his decision, the inspector must explain the account he has taken of them.
My hon. Friend asked about the objectors' right of appeal. It is certainly true that third parties do not have any right of appeal against a decision of the local planning authority to allow development. Applicants, on the other hand, do have a right of appeal against a refusal. This difference dates from the creation of the post-war planning system by the Town and Country Planning Act 1947. That Act substantially strengthened controls over the use and development of privately owned land. It took away many of the rights of the individual to develop his property as he wished. Yet within the modern planning system there has always been a presumption in favour of development. The local authority must be able to establish good reasons for preventing or interfering with a proposed development. For cases where the developer considered the authority's decision to be unreasonable, Parliament provided a right of appeal to the Secretary of State.
A third party, on the other hand, lost no rights as a result of the 1947 Act, so no right of appeal was needed. However, he was given, and still enjoys, a right which he did not previously have—the right to make his views known to the elected local authority and to have them taken into account in the decision-making process.
I should like to turn now more specifically to the issue of development in the green belt. In particular, I am aware of the application for a major retail-leisure complex at Hewitt's farm, permission for which was refused by Bromley council on 24 March. From what I have already said, my hon. Friend will understand that I am unable to comment on the merits of this particular application lest I prejudice the Secretary of State's quasi-judicial role in determining any appeal that may come before him. Nevertheless, in general policy terms, the Government remain firmly committed to maintaining the green belt. This long-established policy was restated in my Department's circular 14 of 1984. The Government are not opposed to new methods of retailing and the benefits that modern retailing schemes can bring to the customer. But the Government have also made it clear that large retail stores simply do not belong in green belts. We have also made it clear that developers who pursue proposals for large scale retail developments in green belts to appeal and are unsuccessful may expect to have the costs of any inquiry awarded against them.
My hon. Friend has asked whether certain parts of the green belts should be designated as inviolate and that

677
planning applications should not be entertained in respect of such areas. This proposal raises a fundamental issue. Our planning system is founded upon the principle that each case—each planning application or appeal—should be considered on its merits. In green belts, and only in these areas, there is a presumption against inappropriate development. Duncan Sandys' historic circular 42/55 states:
"Inside a Green Belt, approval should not be given, except in very special circumstances, for the construction of new buildings or for the change of use of existing buildings for purposes other than agriculture, sport, cemeteries, institutions standing in extensive grounds, or other uses appropriate to a rural area".
But my hon. Friend will realise that even in green belts certain forms of development have always been considered appropriate. There is, for example, no reason for preventing appropriate agricultural or sporting uses of green belt land. Moreover, there needs to be provision for allowing other development, in exceptional circumstances, as circular 14/84 and its predecessors have made clear.
I believe that there would also be considerable practical difficulties in pursuing the designation of absolute "no go" areas for development. Leaving aside the question of appropriate powers, there is the procedure for defining such special areas. It would be for the local planning authorities to identify the areas, through their structure and local plans, in the same way that they have brought forward proposals for green belts for the Secretary of State's approval. This would be a protracted process and I remind the House that, despite encouragement from Ministers, we still do not have detailed green belt boundaries adopted or approved for many areas. There would be the impact of such designations on other green belt areas—there would in effect be first and second-class green belt — and doubtless heated local debate about which should apply where. These are just a few of the issues which the creation of areas, without planning applications or new development, would raise.
The Government are not insensitive to the problems caused by the relentless pressures applied by some developers who seek to undermine our green belt policy, but we need to work within the framework of the existing planning system. I make no apology for not dealing with specific cases raised by my hon. Friend, but he will understand why. On the general matters, Bromley receives the same even-handed treatment from my Department as any other borough or district. I assure the House that each case is considered purely on its merits.
It being half-past Two o'clock, the motion for the Adjournment of the House lapsed, without Question put.

Bromley (Government Planning Policy)
  STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS, &c.

    TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT
    Motion made, and Question put forthwith pursuant to Standing Order No. 101(5) (Standing Committees on Statutory Instruments, &c.)
    That the draft Job Release Act 1977 (Continuation) Order 1987, which was laid before this House on 28th April, in the last Session of Parliament, be approved. — [Mr. Peter Lloyd.]
    Question agreed to.

Herald of Free Enterprise
2.30 pm
The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr. Paul Channon): With permission, Mr. Speaker, I wish to make a statement about the report of the formal investigation into the loss of the vessel Herald of Free Enterprise which capsized outside Zeebrugge harbour on 6 March this year. Mr. Justice Sheen was appointed the Wreck Commissioner to conduct the investigation, assisted by four assessors. He has today delivered the court's report. I have placed a copy in the Library.
I thought that the House would wish to have an immediate statement before we rose for the summer recess. However, I apologise, in particular to the Opposition, for the fact that I was unable to give them the usual notice of this statement. The judge has only just finished delivering his findings, and the alternative would have been no statement. I hope that the House will understand, and I apologise to the Opposition if, in any way, I have inconvenienced them by this course.
The court found that the Herald of Free Enterprise put to sea with her outer and inner bow doors fully open, and thereafter, as speed built up, water entered on to the vehicle deck in large quantities and destroyed her stability. The ship then capsized rapidly. Fortunately, the vessel sank in shallow water. Thanks to great efforts by the Belgian authorities and others, 350 people were rescued, but at least 188 lost their lives.
The court found that the capsize was the joint fault of the master, the chief officer, the assistant bosun, and of Townsend Car Ferries Ltd. at all levels of management. The court has suspended the certificate of the master for one year and of the chief officer for two years.
The court found that the vessel's construction conformed with the relevant statutory requirements. She possessed a valid passenger ship safety certificate, and she carried life-saving equipment in excess of the minimum statutory requirements. However, the court made severe criticisms of the management of Townsend Car Ferries Ltd. and in particular the failure of the company to give clear orders about the duties of the officers on the Zeebrugge run: this contributed greatly to the cause of the disaster. The report draws attention to failures on the part of the management of the company to give attention to warnings from the masters of the vessels in their fleet, or to suggestions of ways of improving safety. In particular, the company did not give proper attention to complaints that ships had proceeded to sea carrying passengers in excess of the permitted numbers, to suggestions for the fitting of warning lights on the bridge to indicate whether the bow and stern doors were open, and to problems over reading the draughts of the vessels. However, the report notes that a new top management has since been appointed to the company, which has taken to heart the gravity of the catastrophe and has shown a determination to put its house in order.
The report contains a number of recommendations for measures to improve the safety of passenger ro-ro ferries. These are divided into those for immediate action. those for action in the near future and those for action in the longer term. Many are of major importance. The House will appreciate that in the short time available I have not been able to reach a firm view on all of them. I will be discussing the report and its recommendations with

679
representatives of the ferry operators and port industry next week. However, there are certain measures that I can now announce.
I am straightaway undertaking the necessary statutory consultations to make mandatory the following three items: first, the fitting of the indicator lights to show the position of superstructure doors; secondly, the fitting of closed circuit television monitors for surveillance of the car deck and to enable the position of the car deck doors to be monitored from the bridge; and, thirdly, the provision of self-contained emergency lighting units of the type proposed in the report. I propose that these requirements will be applied to all ro-ro passenger vessels operating to or from ports in the United Kingdom, regardless of flag. Next, I am consulting the industry, as a matter of urgency, on three further measures recommended in the report: first, the fitting of draught gauges; secondly, the fitting of load indicators; thirdly, the design of windows, including the use of toughened or laminated glass.
The number of passengers on board the Herald of Free Enterprise at the time of the disaster was within the permitted maximum, but, as I have mentioned, the report draws attention to a worrying number of reported incidents of ferries carrying passengers in excess of the permitted maximum. The court considers that it would be possible to introduce a system under which every passenger has a boarding card. The number of cards issued for each voyage would correspond to the permitted maximum number of passengers, which would automatically avoid the risk of carrying excess numbers. I shall be pursuing this proposal with the ferry operators.
The court found that on her departure from Zeebrugge the Herald was probably significantly overloaded as to weight, although the overload was not in any way a cause of the casualty. The report draws attention to problems in measuring the weight of vehicles on ferries, and in identifying the effect of the distribution of the load on the draught and trim of the vessel. In my discussions with port authorities and ferry operators, I shall be pursuing the suggestion in the report for making greater use of weighbridges for improving information supplied to masters about the weight of vehicles loading on to ferries. In addition, I shall examine with the industry the problems which can arise when the design of a berth makes it physically impossible for a vessel to close its loading doors before it has pulled away. As recommended by the report, my Department will also conduct an analysis of the weight of long-distance coaches.
In his statement on 9 March immediately following the disaster, my right hon. Friend and predecessor announced that the Department's surveyors were embarking on a programme of checks on roll-on/roll-off ferries in United Kingdom ports to ensure that all loading door mechanisms were in working order and that officers and crew were aware of the correct operating procedures. I can announce today that the arrangements will be extended to include random checks on ferries to ensure that statutory requirements about loading, stability and passenger numbers are being observed.
In its recommendations for the longer term, the court recommended detailed investigations and model tests with a view to increasing the stability of ro-ro passenger ferries, and to examine the implications of the provision of
680
bulkheads on vehicle decks. My Department is therefore making available an additional £1 million to support an enhanced programme of research into this difficult area.
As part of the continuing process of improving safety standards, the stability regulations for passenger ferries were revised in 1980. Although the Herald was built in accordance with the 1980 standards, the report draws attention to ferries built to those previous standards, which date from 1965, and suggests that those which cannot meet the 1980 standards should be phased out. Although there is no reason for undue concern about the safety of these older vessels, my Department will reassess their stability standards against the standards adopted in 1980, and in the light of this assessment decide what further action is necessary.
During the hearings different views were expressed about whether the act of taking a vessel to sea with its bow doors open constituted an offence under the Merchant Shipping Acts. The court was clearly of the opinion that no statutory offence had been committed. This disaster has demonstrated the appalling consequences that can follow when a ferry proceeds to sea with its bow doors open, and in my view this should be a criminal offence. I shall therefore include in the Merchant Shipping Bill, which I intend to introduce in Parliament after the recess, a provision to strengthen the law in this respect.
Mr. Justice Sheen, his assessors, and others who participated in the investigation are to be congratulated on producing such a comprehensive report so rapidly. I will ensure that my Department takes forward with equal urgency further action following consideration of the recommendations. I am sure that the whole House will join me in once again expressing sympathy for the injured and bereaved and will share my determination that no effort should be spared in making sure that a disaster of this kind shall not happen again.
Mr. Peter Snape: Will the right hon. Gentleman accept that Mr. Justice Sheen's report amplifies a horrifying state of affairs? When the Herald of Free Enterprise left the quayside at Zeebrugge that fateful night, the captain had been told that there were fewer than 1,300 passengers aboard, whereas a later count showed 1,550. The ferry started to sea with the bow doors open, and not for the first time. Ship's rules show that the captain was to assume that the doors were closed until otherwise informed. The captain had only three officers, instead of the usual four, with the result that Chief Officer Sable had two jobs to do in different places—one at the bow doors and one on the bridge. Some lorries on the vehicle deck were overloaded, and others were carrying illegal chemicals, including cyanide. Vehicle drivers were habitually allowed to remain in their cabs. The vessel was bow down because of an unknown quantity of water in the bow ballast tank No. 14.
The Herald of Free Enterprise was a latterday Titanic, wrecked on an iceberg of Department of Transport indifference, managerial incompetence and working methods that were apparently designed only to shorten turn around times, regardless of risks to passengers and crew.
We believe that the recommendation to suspend two crew members is deplorable. The two men worked to arrangements that had been condoned or approved by management. Those same arrangements were probably adhered to by most other principal officers in the

681
Townsend Thoresen fleet. Neither the captain, nor the chief officer, nor any other member of the crew was under the influence of alcohol. At no time did they disobey company instructions. The pleas of Captain Lewry and other senior officers for better arrangements, such as warning lights on the bridge, were consistently ignored by the company. These men are the victims of an incompetent safety management system. The company's management is responsible under law for the safety of the ship and for the people who are on board. The company, and not those officers, should therefore he brought to account. It has become clear during the inquiry that the company lacked competent safety management and directions. Under law, the company has a legal duty to provide safe systems of work, a safe place of work, the necessary training, and the necessary instructions, information and supervision to its staff. On all those counts the company was negligent.
I turn, if I may, to the part played by the right hon. Gentleman's Department. The Department of Transport has a duty to ensure the safety of ships and persons on board. That duty, over many years and under many Governments, has been neglected. So far as I am aware — the report does not disagree — at no time were unannounced inspections made for the purpose of ensuring that the ship was loaded within the required limits for passengers and cargo, that safe working arrangements applied, that prohibited, dangerous goods were not carried and that records of the ship's draught were not being falsified.
The Department of Transport is consistently reducing the number of inspectors who are charged with responsibility for ensuring that such breaches do not take place. Over many years, the Department has taken a leisurely view of its responsibilities. It has failed to create a climate in which proper safety standards are observed on the cross-Channel fleet. The Herald of Free Enterprise demonstrated that, left to their own devices, shipowners are less stringent with themselves on safety matters than they should be, and the right hon. Gentleman's Department was content to let that state of affairs continue.
The report has something to say about the issue of the design of ro-ro ferries. The report shows, and previous inquiries held by the Secretary of State's Department show, that ro-ro ships that take on water to the main vehicle deck or its equivalent sink within 10 minutes. The Herald of Free Enterprise sank in less than two minutes. The report acknowledges that there are no specific design regulations for ro-ro ships. The governing regulations are derived from those that apply to conventional cargo ships, which are subdivided above and below the water line.
The report points to the fact that the Department of Transport has had previous warnings. The court of inquiry into the loss of the European Gateway recommended that
"consideration should be given to catering for the possibility that a vessel may have to be abandoned when listing to more than 15 degrees."
Preliminary research was completed in 1985. Neither the Government nor the shipowners would put up the money for that research to continue.
The present position is that research is undertaken in conjunction with the General Council of British Shipping. So far, the research has been conducted by two consultancy companies—Three Quays, a subsidiary of P and O, and Hart Fenton, a subsidiary of Sealink. In evidence to the court of inquiry the Sealink consultants
682
said that there was nothing inherently wrong with passenger ro-ro design. It is clear to us, however, that design research is needed. That research must be independent of the shipping companies and entirely Government financed. It should also be conducted over a sufficient period for its conclusions to be properly validated.
I wish to put a number of questions to the Secretary of State. Will the Government ensure an early debate in the House on ferry safety? What action do the Government intend to take towards the rapid negotiation of EEC agreements on ferry loading and safety? In the meantime, will they act unilaterally in relation to ferries using British ports'? Will the Government institute proper vehicle weight checks for all lorries at ferry ports? Would riot the computerised weighbridges readily available throughout the world not only assist ferry captains and operators properly to assess ships' loads but have the spin-off benefit of eradicating the dangerous menace of overloaded lorries on Britain's roads?
What action do the Government intend to take to ensure that ferry companies hold accurate and complete passenger logs? Will the Government now ensure proper segregation of passengers and vehicles on ro-ro ferries? What improvements do the Government intend to institute in ferry design to reduce the rate of accidents? Will they insist on changes in ships' working practices, and how will those rules be enforced?
Will the Government take action to ensure that the latest jumbo ferries are fitted with a proper system to predict and check their stability, so as to reassure intending passengers that ships such as the newly launched and quaintly named Pride of Dover do not take 2,300 people to a premature and watery grave? Will the Minister confirm that the Taskmaster system has been in service since 1982, but has not yet been installed in any ro-ro vessel of the Townsend Thoresen fleet?
The inquiry has been held into a tragedy as avoidable as it was horrific. It is the Secretary of State's duty to ensure that the cosy world in which the Department has colluded with indifferent ship owners to ensure that turn-around speed and company receipts took precedence over passenger and crew safety is no longer allowed to continue. The time is long overdue for the Department to carry out its legal duties in terms of maritime safety.
The Department's call for action against crew members but not against the company is deplorable. The Secretary of State must assure the House today that the questions and recommendations that I have put will be acted upon forthwith.
Mr. Channon: I shall do my utmost to answer the questions put to me by the hon. Member for West Bromwich, East (Mr. Snape), who has raised matters which I take extremely seriously, as does the whole House. He will forgive me if I do not accept many of his criticisms of the Department, but we can perhaps debate those matters fully on another occasion. The arrangement of a debate is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House, but I shall certainly draw his attention to today's exchanges and I am sure that he will give sympathetic consideration to the case so cogently made by the hon. Gentleman.

683
The treatment of the crew members is a matter for the court, not for me. Mr. Justice Sheen and the court reached that conclusion. It is not a matter for me or for the Department.
Mr. Snape: Yes, it is.
Mr. Channon: The hon. Gentleman is under a misapprehension. I set up the inquiry, but the judge makes the decisions. It is the judge who decides whether a master's certificate should be suspended or withdrawn. That is nothing to do with me and I have no locus whatsoever in the matter. I assure the hon. Gentleman that that is the situation — I have checked it extremely carefully.
I have already explained the situation in relation to the company. The view expressed by the court, not by me, is that no statutory offence has been committed. That is the view of the court, not mine.
I tried in my opening remarks to cover some of the points that the hon. Gentleman has raised. The judge has divided his recommendations into three groups. Clearly, those of most immediate concern are those that he recommends for immediate action. I am undertaking the necessary statutory consultations to make mandatory the following three items which cover sonic of the points that the hon. Gentleman made: the fitting of indicator lights, closed-circuit television monitors, and self-contained emergency lighting units.
I am consulting the industry about weight checks, and the question of separating passengers from vehicles is being examined carefully. I am doubling the funds available for research into the important matter of ferry design. That will cover the whole question of stability and all the other technical points that are contained in the report and about which, with respect, I do not think it is wise for the House to form a final view until we have had more time to study and know exactly what the technical situation is.
As the report shows, it is extremely important that companies that are operating ferries, or indeed any other type of ship, should have proper operating practices, so that the masters of those ships know where they stand, and so that they are responsible for their ships. Company managements should lay down proper operating practices. The hon. Gentleman made severe criticisms of the management of Townsend. Indeed, so did the judge. What the House must, in fairness, also take into account, because it is extremely important that the public should understand this, is that the judge specifically went out of his way of say that the new management that has taken over— [Interruption.] The House must understand that there are new managers. That is not my view; that is the view of the court. That is what the court said.
If I have not covered all the other matters that the hon. Gentleman raised, I shall certainly examine them in great detail and speed, and be in touch with him.
Mr. John Prescott: The report is an indictment of the sloppy practices that have gone on for many years between shipping companies and the Department in defining safety regulations for vessels. It has been encouraged by the deplorable practice of promising owners that they would not be prosecuted if
684
they co-operated with inquiries. The Government have acted against the crew members and officers of vessels, as in this case, while companies have got off scot-free.
Is the Secretary of State aware that, while he has repeated the court's claim that it is not a statutory offence to proceed to sea with the doors open—the Merchant Shipping Act 1984 does not say that that is an offence—it is clearly an offence to send a ship to sea in an unseaworthy condition? To have open bow doors is clearly an unseaworthy condition, and the death of 188 people bears testimony to that.
The Secretary of State is not prepared to face his responsibilities and prosecute the company and seeks to hide behind the court in respect of the Merchant Shipping Act 1984, but his own regulations, placed before the House in 1984, place an obligation on companies to provide safe places of work and safe working practices. Any breach of those 1984 regulations is a criminal offence. On the basis of the report, it is possible to prosecute the company. Therefore, will the Secretary of State now face up to his obligations and prosecute the company, instead of hiding behind the fact that it has a new management? Will he prosecute the company for committing this offence?
Mr. Channon: With respect, it is not my view, but the view of the court. I quote the words used in the judge's findings:
"The court is able to deal with this question on this occasion because it is clearly of the opinion that no statutory offence has been committed."
The court has taken the view that no offence has been committed. That is why I propose to introduce in the autumn specific measures under the Merchant Shipping Act to change the position. I should have thought that the House would welcome the fact that we are taking an early opportunity to make the law completely clear on this point. The officers are not being prosecuted. The hon. Gentleman misunderstands. The court decides whether, in its view, there has been negligence by the master or the officers. On this occasion the court decided that there was negligence by the master and the chief officer, and it has taken steps that it thinks right. I am prepared to face up to my responsibilities, and what I have announced this afternoon is probably the most comprehensive list of changes and improvements in safety that has ever been announced from this Dispatch Box.
Mr. Terence Higgins: Can we be clear about this? Is my right hon. Friend saying that it is not a statutory offence to take to sea a ship that is unseaworthy, but he proposes to legislate to make it so?
Mr. Channon: My right hon. Friend will be aware that the vessel itself was not unseaworthy. The court found that it sailed with its doors open, and that was the serious situation that caused this appalling disaster. The court takes the view that no statutory offence has been committed. I shall change the law to make sure that in future it will be a statutory offence.
Mr. Simon Hughes: The Secretary of State may be trying to escape liability on the issue of criminal offence, but he repeated the judgment of the court that the fault lay with named officers and with the company. The country will not understand his attitude unless he admits to the House that Townsend Thoresen was grossly negligent. The country will want to hear what action is being taken against the company for that negligence.

685
Is it, as it was suggested, because the Department fears that some of its officials will be seen to have been negligent that it is not willing to request and initiate action? I fear that unless action is taken, and unless the Secretary of State concedes that gross negligence occurred as a result of the behaviour of the company and possibly that of the Department, the legacy of this terrible tragedy will be that those who died paid the price of free enterprise. That will be the motto of this incident.
Mr. Channon: It must be clear from my statement and from the judge's findings that he considered Townsend Thoresen to have been negligent. I have already said so in my statement. If I had found that there had been criticism of my Department which showed that the Department or senior officials had been negligent, I would not have hesitated to take the appropriate action. There is no such suggestion in the report. I have already explained fully to the House the judge's view of the company's management at the time that this took place. I am glad to say that he does not take that view of the present management.
Mr. John Ward: Do not the remarks already made reflect the importance of studying the whole report and considering it carefully before making comments? I shall concentrate on one small but important aspect of what I have already heard. My constituency has a roll-on/ roll-off ferry. We have sophisticated weighing machines, but they are used only on a voluntary basis. There is evidence to suggest that drivers of overloaded vehicles use other ports without such sophisticated weighing devices, or where they are inoperative. Would not one small but important aspect of this inquiry be that there should be compulsory weighing of vehicles whenever entering or leaving ports, and preferably, by agreement with the EEC, that such weighing should take place at the departure point on the continent as well?
Mr. Channon: My hon. Friend makes a fair point with which most hon. Members will agree, that the report is long and needs detailed study. The House will wish to come back to the subject. We should study it with care before corning to final conclusions about many of its points.
I shall be pursuing the greater use of weighbridges for improving the information supplied to masters about the weight of vehicles loading on to ferries. I shall be examining that as a matter of urgency in the discussions with port authorities and ferry operations that I shall carry out next week. I make it clear that that is an important point, but it was not the cause of this disaster.
Mr. Nigel Spearing: With respect to the ship's rules and regulations, if there was no system of positive reporting required by the company, why is the company not wholly responsible for what happened? Does the report go into that? Secondly, does the report deal with the terms and conditions of service of the officers and men? How secure was their employment? Were there any terms whereby renewal of employment was required at short notice or in the short term? If that matter was not dealt with by the report, will the Minister make inquiries?
Mr. Channon: The report did not go into the latter point raised by the hon. Gentleman, or if it did, it was not dealt with in any great detail. I shall, of course, make inquiries into that matter.
686
With regard to the responsibility for the disaster, in the final section of his report, the judge answers questions submitted to him. He was asked:
"What caused the Herald to capsize? How many lives were lost?"
The questions raised other important points. They included:
"Was the capsize caused or contributed to by the fault of any person or persons, and if so whom and in what respect?"
The answers were as follows:
"Yes, by the faults of the following: Mr. Mark Victor Stanley, Mr. Leslie Sable, Captain David Lewry, Townsend Car Ferries Limited at all levels from the board of directors through the managers of marine departments down to the junior superintendents."
As to the respects in which each of those people was guilty of cause or at fault, the whole report must be studied to get all the details.
Mr. John Wheeler: My right hon. Friend is right to tell the House that the report must be considered very carefully. However, the interests of the nation require that justice should be seen to be done. Will he assure the House that all the facts and evidence relating to this appalling affair are examined by the Attorney-General and the Director of Public Prosecutions as an additional safeguard?
Mr. Channon: I certainly cannot object to my hon. Friend's suggestion. However, I would mislead the House if I did not remind it that the court has clearly come to the view, and states in black and white, that it believes that no statutory offence has been committed.
Mr. Dick Douglas: Does the Secretary of State concede that our thanks are due to Mr. Justice Sheen for the work that he and his colleagues have undertaken in bringing to light the unhappy events surrounding the disaster? Those of us who have taken time — there may be many, although I am not sure — to attend the public inquiry will feel, as I felt, that it was one of the most horrific experiences of our lives. It was particularly horrific for me as a former seagoing engineer.
I draw the Secretary of State's attention to page 22, paragraph 10.3, of the report, which examines the background. It states:
"In October 1983 the assistant bosun of the Pride had fallen asleep and had not heard 'Harbour Stations' being called, with the result that he neglected to close both the bow and stern doors on the sailing of the vessel from No. 5 berth, Dover.
A general instruction issued in July 1984 which prescribed that it was the duty of the officer loading the main vehicle deck, G deck, to ensure that the bow doors were 'secure when leaving port'."
Was that incident reported to the Secretary of State's Department? If so, what action was taken? Some of us may be guilty of trying to be wise after the event, but it appears as though someone was not wise prior to the event.
I am not sure whether I follow some of my colleagues with regard to the responsibilities of the master and the officers of the ship. However, they have been punished in the working and public domains. They will bear the scars for the rest of their lives. Because of the withdrawal of certificates for one year or two years, I doubt whether these gentlemen will ever go to sea again.
However, what of the company? If anything is written into the history of the merchant service, it should be paragraph 14.1 of the report, which states:
"At first sight the faults which led to the disaster were those of the aforesaid errors of omission on the part of the

687
Master, Chief Officer and assistant bosun, and also the failure by Captain Kirkby to issue and enforce clear orders. But a full investigation into the circumstances of the disaster leads inexorably to the conclusion that the underlying or cardinal faults lay higher up in the Company. The Board of Directors did not appreciate their responsibility for the safe management of their ships. They did not apply their minds to the question: What orders should be given for the safety of our ships? The dirctors did not have any proper—"
Mr. Speaker: Order. It is unfair not to ask a question. I appreciate that there has not been an opportunity to read the report.
Mr. Douglas: I appreciate your stricture, Mr. Speaker. The paragraph continues:
"From top to bottom the body corporate was infected with the disease of sloppiness."
What does the Minister propose to do and what avenues are available to ensure that the company and the people who were truly responsible are called to account?
Mr. Channon: First, the July 1984 incident was not reported to my Department. If it had been, appropriate action would have been taken. Secondly, the hon. Gentleman has read the telling quotations which appear in paragraph 14. I have already made clear to the House that the judge has been extremely scathing about the management of Townsend. I am sure that the House will wish to study the report in full, it being difficult to scrutinise it adequately in a short time. We have had the report for only a short time and with respect I think that it is unwise of the House to press too hard on issues which few of us have had the chance properly to examine. The management is severely criticised in the report but there is no question of a criminal offence. It is extremely important to understand that the management concerned is no longer in charge of the company. That must be a safeguard for the travelling public.
Mr. Patrick Cormack: Will my right hon. Friend do two things quickly? First, will he take further legal advice on whether it is an offence to take a ship with a hole in it to sea? Secondly, will he immediately request all ferry companies to institute a boarding card system as from 1 August, bearing in mind that that is the height of the holiday season?
Mr. Channon: I am seeing the ferry companies next week, and I shall discuss that issue with them. The boarding card suggestion is an important one, but it would not have prevented the disaster. The House and the country must understand that the disaster was caused because a ship sailed with its doors open and that steps are being taken to ensure that that can never happen again. That is the crucial issue in the short term. I have already explained the measures that I am already setting in hand, which I believe are far-reaching, and I think that it will be realised that the most energetic steps are being taken to protect people's safety on board ferries. I am sure that my hon. Friend will understand that I have already taken the best legal advice that is available.
Mr. Gerald Bermingham: Does the Secretary of State agree that over the past few years the number of inspectors has been reduced in his Department? Does he agree further that the frequency of inspections has
688
decreased, with the result that there has been an increase in sloppiness? Does he accept that his Department has some part or blame to share in this appalling disaster?
Mr. Channon: I am advised that the frequency of inspections has not decreased. However, I shall check what the hon. Gentleman has said and write to him about the matter. It is an extremely important issue. Having been Secretary of State for the Department of Trade and Industry for only six weeks, I intend in future to make sure that we have an adequate system to ensure that the House is fully satisfied about future arrangements in this area.
Mr. Ivor Stanbrook: I welcome the Government's response to the report, especially the proposal for extra funding for the research into and design of roll-on/roll-off ferries, but I find it somewhat odd that my right hon. Friend has not seen fit to condemn the company for its part in the responsibility for this tragedy. Whatever we think about the merits of the Channel tunnel, it is in British interests that there should be as many efficient, cheap and safe ferry crossings to the continent as possible. While we must ensure that there is never a repetition of this tragedy, will my right hon. Friend bear in mind Britain's long-term interests?
Mr. Channon: Of course I shall, and I entirely share my hon. Friend's views. He says that I have not condemned the company, but I do not think that any Minister could have made more scathing comments about the company's management. That echoes what the judge said in his report. I am sure that there is common ground in the House about the necessity for the greatest possible number of routes, and the safest possible routes, across the Channel — whether they are by ferry, by the Channel tunnel or by any other means — and I shall do my utmost to achieve that.
Mr. Frank Cook: Leaving aside all the legalistic bobbing and weaving, will the Secretary of State agree that this is exactly the sort of subject for the methods and discipline of the diagnostic engineer? Does he accept that diagnostic engineers have been saying for years that such an accident was waiting to happen—that a car deck without bulkheads and weirplates, and with water swilling around, was guaranteed to produce such an accident, regardless of how many or how few people were on board? Will the right hon. Gentleman give the House an assurance that the one legacy that he will leave us of his tenure of office is the introduction of regulations to ensure that any ferry using a British port will have provision similar to the provision in the car parks under the House to protect the property of hon. Members, which is sometimes stuck there for two or three years on end? No threat to mankind is involved there. Will the Secretary of State ensure that regulations are introduced which make certain that no swilling of water on ferries can possibly happen again?
Mr. Channon: The hon. Gentleman has raised an important point. He will recall from my statement that the court recommends in the longer term that detailed research should be carried out into increasing the stability of ro-ro passenger ferries, and that the implications of the provision of bulkheads on vehicle decks should be examined. That is my policy. I have already announced that I am doubling the amount of research available on the matter, and I shall keep the hon. Gentleman in touch with progress.
Mr. Terry Dicks: How can negligence at officer level be an offence, while negligence at company level is not? Most people in this country cannot understand why the company is still being allowed to sail ferries across the Channel. May I ask my right hon. Friend to do something different from what he suggested, and to take to himself and his Department powers to license ferry operators, rather than just looking at the seaworthiness of ships? If he had had that power at the time of the accident, Townsend Thoresen ferries could have been taken off the sea, and he would have been empowered to ensure that they never sailed again. The people have the right to know the truth, whether public or private enterprise is involved. They want to see the management of Townsend Thoresen punished, and I think that the sooner the company is closed down in one way or another, the better it will be.
Mr. Channon: Let me deal first with the question of licensing. The arrangements for ships are very different from those for aeroplanes and other forms of transport. The House will wish to consider whether we should go down that road; it has far-reaching implications, and I am not prepared at one hour's notice to give a definite answer. Licensing ferry operators would be a complete change in our marine shipping law, which has existed through many Governments and many centuries. But I shall consider my hon. Friend's point.
I well understand my hon. Friend's views about the treatment of the master and, as he sees it, the treatment of the company. According to the court, neither has committed a criminal offence. The court has found—I am not talking about my findings—that the master was guilty of negligence in exercising his master's certificate, and it is for that that he has been suspended for a year.
Mr. Brian Sedgemore: What is the Secretary of State's personal message today to the buccaneers of free enterprise at Townsend Thoresen who will for ever be remembered as merchants of death?
Mr. Channon: I do not wish to use the hon. Gentleman's language. This was a terrible disaster, and there is, I hope. reasonably common ground in the House on why it happened. Certainly, the report is very clear about the cause: the accident was due to a combination of factors, which the report outlines in detail. The company and, I am afraid, some of the crew were partially responsible. It is a terrible disaster in the history of the sea, and the management of that company is no longer in charge.
Mr. Harry Creenway: Is my right hon. Friend aware that I shall never forget the agony of some of my constituents whose children died in this tragedy? I was glad to hear him say that he sympathises with the bereaved. Is my right hon. Friend further aware that many of those who appeared in the inquiry continue to be extremely ill, particularly psychologically ill, and that that is perhaps irreversible? What will be done for them?
Mr. Channon: The House knows that the Government have already made a very large contribution to the disaster fund. Other compensation measures are available. I shall write to my hon. Friend on that very important point. I share his distress at the appalling situation in which many people still find themselves, either because of the loss of
690
friends or relatives or because they are still very ill after the appalling disaster. I shall, of course, sympathetically consider anything that can be done to help them further.
Mr. David Young: Will the Secretary of State take on board the fact that many fair-minded people will believe that the crew members have been used as a scapegoat to cover the omissions of the company? Will he reiterate that, although crew members may have been punished for sins of commission, the sins of omission by the company were far more serious? While we are waiting for his legislation, what message will he give to the other companies that indulge in bad practices? What warning will he give to them, and will he make the action against them retrospective?
Mr. Channon: I very much hope that the hon. Member does not believe that other companies continue to indulge in bad practices. If he does, I hope that he will give me evidence about it straight away so that I may investigate it at once. My inspectors have already carried out the requisite checks, and I am satisfied that no ship will ever again sail under similar circumstances. The House was told some months ago that the inspectors had been carrying out additional checks. It is important that people should understand that action has already been taken. I have announced a programme for future action and I shall he meeting the companies next week.
Mr. Henry Bellingham: I hope that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will press hard for a full debate on this issue when the House reassembles in the autumn. I have not yet had an opportunity to read the report in full, but it reveals neglect by Townsend Thoresen that verges on the criminal. Townsend Thoresen has brought shame on the British merchant marine, not just as a result of this horrific incident but as a result of many years of slovenly, incompetent management. Many of my constituents sail regularly on cross-Channel ferries. They will be dismayed that this company is still allowed to operate ferries. They will be even more dismayed if my right hon. Friend cannot promise that action will be taken against the company. It is not good enough to say that the company has a few new managers. The management is obviously rotten to the core, and the people of this country expect really tough action to be taken by the Minister and the Department.
Mr. Channon: As to my hon. Friend's point about the need for a debate on the subject, I sense that in all quarters of the House there is a desire for a debate. I have already said that I shall consult my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House about the matter, and he has assured me that he will consider it sympathetically. Therefore, I hope that before long I shall be able to meet my hon. Friend's point.
A debate would provide a better opportunity to discuss the matter. Hon. Members will then have had an opportunity to study the report. It is no one's fault that there has been no opportunity to study it. The choice I had to make was either to make a statement now, when no hon. Member has had a chance to read the report, or to allow the House to go into a three-month recess without my having made a statement. I took the view that the House would prefer me to make a statement today.
As hon. Members have not had a chance to study the report, I hope that they will consider carefully what they are saying. I have already explained to the House that if

691
criminal offences were involved, people would be prosecuted, but the court has taken the view that no criminal offences are involved. I explained to the House many months ago that the formal investigation mechanism makes it extremely difficult for prosecutions to take place. It is unprecedented for there to be a prosecution after a formal investigation.
Mr. Prescott: No, it is not.
Mr. Channon: If the hon. Gentleman has a precedent, I shall be very glad to have a look at it, but I am advised that there are no precedents. [Interruption.] I have checked carefully, but if the hon. Gentleman has any evidence to the contrary I should like to look at it. It is a very important point. It makes me wonder whether our regulatory machinery and the conduct of the investigations that I inherited is the best way to proceed.
Several Hon. Members rose——
Mr. Speaker: Order. I take up the point just made by the Secretary of State. If there is to be a debate, hon. Members will have had an opportunity to study the report. Today, will hon. Members please ask questions and not repeat the points that have already been made by other hon. Members?
Mr. Max Madden: Is the epitaph of the tragedy that profit prevailed over safety? Why did it take the deaths of so many people to persuade the Department to take the action that it was pressed to take for a long time? Will the Secretary of State understand that many people believe that the captain and crew have been made scapegoats and that the company has been protected, as a major contributor to the Conservative party?
Mr. Channon: I hope that, on reflection, the hon. Gentleman will regret that remark. I should have thought that it is the sort of issue in regard to which, on normal occasions, both sides of the House would be united in trying to find ways of going forward to make sure that something like this never occurs again. I have been extremely scathing in my remarks about the company, and in doing so I have echoed what the judge said. I have announced measures that I shall take with the greatest urgency to make sure that something like this cannot occur again. I hope to have the united support of the House in that. That is the way in which I shall proceed.
Mr. Nicholas Bennett: Looking to the future, when my right hon. Friend considers what recommendations should be put into practice, will he look at three matters? First, he talked about the tightening up of company operating practices. Is there a clear case for a statutory code which will apply to all companies and which will have criminal penalties if they are not carried out? For instance, I refer to the criminal penalties in regard to health and safety at work. We should look at that matter. Secondly, I refer to random inspections without warning. We must make sure that they take place and that the companies do not know that they are happening. Thirdly, I refer to the lessons that we learnt about rescue co-ordination during the rescue. As I understand it, the rescue services of both countries acted quickly and saved many lives as a result of their co-ordination.
692
In my own part of the world, different ferries operate on the Irish sea—a much wider area. Can we be assured that proper co-ordination is taking place in all ports and on all sea routes, that contingency plans exist, and that practices take place on a regular basis?
Mr. Channon: My hon. Friend raised three extremely important points. I shall examine the possibility of a statutory code of company operating practices, but I do not wish to give an answer about it this afternoon. It will be extremely relevant to proceedings on the Merchant Shipping Bill when it comes before the House later this year. I shall bear in mind what my hon. Friend said. Perhaps he would like to be in touch with me about it.
We shall have more random inspections. It is important not only to have more random inspections but to have inspections of all parts of ships, not simply areas to which only passengers can go. There is some conflict between making random and covert inspections and allowing inspectors to get into all areas of ships where, normally, only crew members are allowed to go.
The rescue co-ordination worked extremely well during the tragedy. The only point that arose concerned helicopter noise. My hon. Friend may wish to read the section relating to helicopters when he has a chance to study the report. Some small improvements may be effected in that regard. I shall certainly consider the points that he made about rescue co-ordination throughout the United Kingdom. Of course, we are reviewing that matter at present.
Mr. Jeremy Corbyn: Is the Secretary of State aware that concern has been expressed over many years about the lack of bulkheads on large deck areas on roll-on/roll-off ferries? Is he also aware that, on ocean-going container vessels, it is common for waterproof bulkheads to cross decks to prevent just the kind of accident that happened at Zeebrugge? Will the Secretary of State assure the House — as my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich, East (Mr. Snape) asked—that the investigations into ferry design will be independent of ferry operators and shipping companies, will be financed only by Government, and that a report will quickly be furnished? Will the Secretary of State ensure that the necessary design changes are introduced immediately to prevent a similar accident happening on cross-Channel ferries? Obviously, shipping operators on trans-Atlantic lines recognised that danger a long time ago.
Mr. Channon: I shall certainly examine the hon. Gentleman's point. Conditions for crossing the Atlantic are different from those for cross-Channel operations and requirements may prove to be different in practice. As the hon. Gentleman knows, I have announced a programme of research into ferry design and doubled the funds that are available for that. I am not sure how quick — [Interruption.] No, I have had this job for only six weeks. This afternoon I have announced measures that will take us further along that road than anyone else. I shall make sure that the hon. Gentleman's considered points are carefully examined.
Mr. Ernie Ross: The Secretary of State has said that 180 people lost their lives on that night. Can he advise the House of the number of people who have since died as a result of Zeebrugge? Those of us who have

693
been in the Merchant Navy and who have been involved in shipbuilding and ship design have known for many years that the initial design of those ships was likely to lead to disaster. The Secretary of State said that it was the fact that the bow doors were open that caused the disaster. However, even if the bow doors were open the ship might not have overturned if there had been internal bulkheads. That is the key to this issue and the Secretary of State should make that his immediate priority and should not concentrate on other matters, which could be dealt with simply.
Mr. Channon: I shall examine what the hon. Gentleman has said, but I do not think that that is what the judge found.
Mr. Ross: What would the judge know about the design of the ship?
Mr. Channon: He is the Admiralty judge. He is the one expert—[Interruption.] If anyone can express a view on this, it is the Admiralty judge, supported by four expert assessors. With respect, I should have thought that that judge is as likely to know as anyone else in the United Kingdom. The hon. Gentleman's comments were not the view of the judge, but that does not mean that I shall not consider what the hon. Gentleman has said.
I am afraid that I do not have the figure for those who have died since the tragic disaster, but if I can find out, I shall get in touch with the hon. Gentleman.
Mr. Harry Barnes: Will the Secretary of State introduce retrospective legislation when he introduces the other measures that he put before the House so that action can be taken against Townsend Thoresen, and in future against firms that commit similar practices?
Mr. Channon: I shall consider the hon. Gentleman's comments. However, he must face up to the fact that, as I said a few moments ago, that there has never been any prosecution after a formal investigation of this type in history.
Mr. Peter Pike: With respect, will the Secretary of State accept his own advice, and will he and his Department study the report in greater depth? I accept that we have not yet had sufficient time to consider it, but it contains a serious condemnation of the management of Townsend Thoresen, and it will seem to the public an absolute outrage if action cannot be taken against that company.
Will the Secretary of State assure us that, if he reconsiders the report and finds some way of taking legal action against the company, that action will be taken? Will he ensure that the new procedures that are used for embarkation and boarding in this country, where regulations are already tighter than in other countries, are enforced in continental ports, which at present are much more relaxed when compared with the new regulations that are in operation at Dover and at other ports here?
Mr. Channon: The hon. Gentleman is right to say that we should study the report in much greater depth than we have so far had the opportunity to do—that includes my Department and myself. We have done our best to make an initial judgment of the issues that we should take forward with the greatest urgency, and I announced those to the House this afternoon. Yes, we shall consider the new
694
procedures, and if we think that the procedures in continental ports need changing —that would require negotiations—I shall consider how that can be achieved.
Mr. Bob Cryer: Does the Secretary of State accept that many people outside the House will see his statement as conniving at making two officers the scapegoats for this horrific tragedy, while the directors walk away from the offence absolutely scot free because they happened to get out of the company conveniently in time to escape any of the consequences? Was it a lack of inspectors in his Department — the Government have made repeated claims that they are sacking as many civil servants as they can—which prevented it from following up Merchant Shipping Notice No. M. 1188, entitled "Good Ship Management", listed on page 37 of the report, and which emphasised the safe operation of ships at sea? Was there complacency on the part of his Department which for nine months made no attempt to ensure that that notice was followed up and put into practice? No prosecutions were entered into under the 1984 regulations. What is the cause? Is it the sloppiness of the Conservative Government, the shortage of civil servants or the sloppiness of the Department of Transport?
Mr. Channon: With respect, the hon. Gentleman is wrong about this. It is most unreasonable and unfair of him to make those comments. This afternoon I am merely reporting to the House what the judge has found. The suggestion that I have been conniving with the judge is astonishing and from an experienced Member of Parliament like the hon. Gentleman I find it surprising indeed. I have not made the decisions about the master and the chief officer: the judge has. [HON. MEMBERS: "The Secretary of State has powers of his own."] I do not have powers. In a formal investigation of this sort it is for the judge to make powers to remove the certificate. It is not me who decides that; it is he who decides that.
The hon. Gentleman's criticisms of the Department of Transport are not echoed in the judge's report. The hon. Gentleman will have a chance to study that in full and then he will be able to make up his mind. We can return to the subject when we have all had a chance to study it.
There have been some reductions in the number of inspectors in my Department. The decline in the fleet has been far faster than the decline in the number of inspectors. [Interruption.] The percentage of inspectors compared with the numbers of the fleet is still virtually unchanged. [Interruption.] If anything, it may have increased. Hon. Gentlemen are trying to create an issue out of nothing. [Interruption.] No. If the judge had made those criticisms of my Department, I would not have shirked telling the House.
Mr. D. N. Campbell-Savours: Is it not true that, despite the fact that the judicial inquiry has found that a prosecution should not be brought against the company, the Director of Public Prosecutions is a free-standing authority in these matters and can examine all the documents if the Secretary of State submits them to him? Is it not true that if the director decides that there is a basis for prosecution, he can bring it, irrespective of the report that the Secretary of State has announced to Parliament today?
Mr. Channon: The hon. Gentleman neglects the important point about the formal investigation and the

695
position that arises after a formal investigation of this type. I have a great deal of sympathy with some of the points made this afternoon, but that is inevitable and has always been the practice. It may well be that the system needs to be changed.
Mr. Tony Banks: Surely the Secretary of State is aware of the extreme disquiet on both sides of the House that Townsend Thoresen is getting away almost scot free? It is as though there has been a whitewash job. Three named officers will have to live with this on their conscience for the rest of their lives. In all justice the Secretary of State should be seen to penalise the company for the various mistakes that the management clearly made. Will the Secretary of State now say that he will tell Townsend Thoresen that it will have no more ferry movements until it has carried out all the proposed modifications and his Department has investigated the new management structure to ensure that the same mistakes will not be repeated? Will the boarding card system also mean that there is a named passenger list so that in the event of this happening again constituents, relatives and friends will not have to spend days in anguish waiting to know whether they have had someone on that ferry?
Mr. Channon: I am not sure that a named passenger list is the solution that the House wants. We should certainly consider it, but it is not necessarily a good idea or, indeed, one that would be welcome to the overwhelming majority of passengers for a variety of reasons, including the speed of getting on and off ships. Nor would it necessarily be accurate. I am not immediately attracted to the idea, but we shall consider the whole boarding card circumstances, as I have announced to the House.
The new management structure is already in place. In his report, the judge referred to that and to the fact that Townsend Thoresen has taken the necessary steps to make its ships safe. I am not responsible for what the hon. Member for Newham, North-West (Mr. Banks) calls a whitewash job. I report to the House the facts as the judge found them. The idea that I have not criticised the company or that the company has not been criticised in the report is not true. The company has been criticised extremely severely in the report and the House will be able to study it.
Mr. Neil Thorne: My right hon. Friend has made some sensible and practical suggestions on what might be done to ensure that this type of accident never happens again. He has also told us that next week he expects to meet the various parties concerned in the shipping industry. After he has discussed the matter with those parties, will he consider announcing a timetable of when the practical steps can be implemented, because I am sure that that would go a long way to confirm the reassurance that is required by the public as to the future of ro-ro ferries?
Mr. Channon: I think that that is an extremely good idea.

Prisons (Overcrowding)
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn. [Mr. Lightbown.]
3.35 pm
Mr. Gerald Bermingham: When I applied for this Adjournment debate on the crisis in the prison system the situation was somewhat difficult. I note that, in the days that have gone by since that application, the situation has not improved to any great extent.
The Minister, who has been kind enough to come here today to reply, no doubt anticipates that what was said in The Times today is the basis upon which I wish to address the House. That is not entirely so. I would not dream of boring the House by repeating what has already been printed. Perhaps the Minister will deal, en passant, with the points raised in The Times as he answers the points that I wish to raise.
The truth of the matter is that, in the United Kingdom, we send to prison far more persons per head of the population than most of western Europe and, indeed, most of the civilised world. Indeed, the conditions into which we dispatch those persons would, I believe, disgrace even a developing country. If we are to solve the problem of imprisonment and the crisis in our prisons, the time has come to ask a series of fundamental questions.
The other day, Lord Chief Justice Lane, speaking at a judges' dinner, decried the practice of the press of seizing upon items of sentence and creating a great hoo-ha about them. I entirely agree with him; he has made an extremely valid point. In this country, in any one year, thousands, if not millions, of people are sentenced in various courts for various matters. The vast bulk of those sentences are absolutely correct and are never commented upon. However, in any massive sentencing organisation there must, from time to time, be some sentences that are either too severe or too lenient. It does not behove the system for publicity hungry politicians to seize upon those sentences and create the sort of hoo-ha that is then taken up by the press. All that does is, on occasion, to create stiffer sentences in other courts when such sentences need not be imposed.
The crisis in the prisons has been caused simply because the prison system is incapable of dealing with the number of prisoners it has now or will have in the weeks, months and years to come. It has meant that, time after time, those who work in the prison service find that their particular function nowadays is simply to incarcerate and hold prisoners. Very often that means incarcerating persons for 23 hours a day—consider what that means—for weeks, months or years.
I pay credit to the Minister for the beautiful way in which he dodged questions that I tabled to him at the beginning of this Parliament by saying that the prison-building programme was being kept under continuous review. Given that answer, it was obvious to me that the Department, for which the Minister answers, was carefully thinking about what to do. In those questions, I offered a series of alternatives; and when the Home Office failed to answer them, it was obvious that an announcement was about to be made.
We eventually saw the palliatives, as I described them, which included increasing remission time on sentences of fewer than 12 months. It will let out a number of prisoners and it may reduce the prison population a little, but the

697
Minister may recall that I raised the subject some years ago when the total number of persons in prison was in the low 40,000s. Shortly thereafter the Home Office introduced new parole rules. Instead of having to wait until almost half of his sentence before he was reviewed for parole, the period for which a prisoner had to wait was reduced to one third of sentences for some categories of offence; and in the following year 7,000 or 8,000 people were released. It was equally interesting to note that, of those released early, the amount of re-offending or breach of parole was minute. That little exercise proved that we do not need the long sentences that have been imposed. We also discovered that, notwithstanding that exercise, which let about 7,000 to 8,000 people out, the prison population increased.
The time has come when, if we are to solve the crisis in our prisons, we must ask two fundamental questions. First, why do we send people to prison? Secondly, under what conditions do we want people to remain in prison? The time has come for a commission to be set up to answer those questions. Perhaps on this last day of term, the Minister will join hands across the Chamber in the simple pursuit of solving those fundamental questions which have bedevilled society.
The reality of life is that our prisons are overfull and conditions are deplorable, with three to a cell, lack of exercise, poor diets, poor facilities, lack of education and lack of any rehabilitative programme. We should not blame the prison officers for that. They have to deal with the number of bodies sent to them. They have to live in contact with people who have been locked up in squalid and sordid conditions. When asked about the current overcrowding, the Prison Officers Association gives the civil answer that prison officers are now merely the Gagers of men rather than the protectors and guardians of society. In the old days, the object of the exercise was to rehabilitate the prisoner. Nowadays, we send in a raw recruit for his first sentence and we let out an experienced criminal at the other end. That serves none of us.
The position gets even worse. We do not have enough places for prisoners. We are extending the system into the police cells of our major cities. Why are London remand prisoners held in Bristol, Norwich, Windsor or a dozen other places? The simple answer is that there are no places in London. That must have an effect on the police. Police officers are necessary to look after and guard them 24 hours a day. Whether because of overtime or for other reasons, those officers are not performing the role of the police; they are performing the role of gaolers. They and their senior officers do not want that. One feels that there is a little hypocrisy on the part of a party that is dedicated to law and order, as every action taken by it has been to lessen the force of law and order that we need to keep our streets safe.
Police officers have had to work increasingly long hours. Prisoners are not being brought to the courts and justice is being delayed, which has meant that people are not being delivered from various places of detention to their second and subsequent trials after being convicted in their first. All in all, this means an increasing cost to our society, due to the delay in the judicial system, the misuse of police manpower and the increased costs of lawyers. I must declare an interest at this point as a practising barrister. I am well aware of the increased costs, because barristers now have to travel halfway around the country trying to find their clients in order to get instructions. That increases legal aid fund costs.
698
I ask the Minister to go with me down the path that leads towards an investigation into how we propose to use our prisons in the future. This is a serious matter and I shall no doubt return to it time and again in the months ahead. I ask the hon. Gentleman, in the short term, whether he will look back to the written questions that I submitted and to the alternatives I suggested—including temporary release. In the interests of humanity, if nothing else, might not conditions be improved for the 51,000 people now in custody? I think especially of those with psychiatric illnesses. In that way those who serve our society, prison officers and police alike, will return to their former roles, and our prisons will not be the disgrace of Europe that they now are. Our prison officers will have a worthwhile role again.
Does the Minister realise that conditions in our prisons today, particularly for those who are detained on remand, may well fly in the face of the European convention on human rights? In this country, we used to have a proud record on the way in which we treated our prisoners. Today, we do not enjoy that proud record. We have made our prisons the scandal and shame of Europe.
I propose not to take my full allotted time so as to leave time for my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford. West (Mr. Madden), who wishes to raise certain points.
3.48 pm
Mr. Max Madden: I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for St. Helens, South (Mr. Bermingham) on securing the Adjournment debate and thank him for allowing me to contribute briefly to it.
Society needs to ensure that proper arrangements are made to prevent crime, that the victims of crime are given proper support—sometimes long-tern support—and that those who are taken out of society and put in prison for society's protection are treated in a civilised way.
I want to report to the House the experience of my former constituent, Mr. Robert Swindells, who recently served five days in Armley prison for refusing to pay a £25 fine for obstructing the highway during a London peace demonstration. That experience was recently described in the Bradford Telegraph and Argus as follows:
"As a law breaker, he shared a cell of 96 so ft with animal rights protestor Ronnie Lee and a jewel thief from Liverpool named Lopez. There were 60 prisoners on the landing, sharing one toilet and one water-pipe. They had two 20-minute periods a day to use the toilet."
Swindells was quoted as saying the following:
'If you didn't you had to ring a bell. The answer might be 'yes' or 'do it through the door', depending on the officer on duty.
In Victorian days that toilet was for 20 fellows and t hat cell was for one. Conditions in Armley are three times as harsh as they were in Victorian times. Other prisoners told me it was the worst prison in England.
It's not the fault of the people running it. I didn't find the screws too bad. I didn't encounter any sadists.
We were locked up for 23 hours a day, which is very boring. The cells stink of urine. The slop bucket is emptied twice a day. It's pretty vile, especially in warm weather, very hot and stuffy. My predominating memory will be of that bucket. And you have to bear in mind you have to eat your meals in that atmosphere as well.
After 8 pm. they don't answer the bell for people to go to the toilet. You have the choice of doing it in the slop bucket and stinking out the cell, or doing it in a piece of paper or rag and chucking it out of the window. Every morning a prison officer goes round with a gang of men collecting them up."

699
Since that experience, Mr. Swindells has written to me saying that he made two friends among the long-term prisoners in Armley and that the thought of their plight breaks his heart.
It is appropriate that our last debate before the recess should be on overcrowding in our prisons. Society can be judged by the way in which it treats those whom it wishes to deprive of their liberty. In Armley they are treated disgracefully. I have sent the article to the Home Secretary. I hope that the Minister, in replying to this debate, will have some message of hope for the people enduring those disgraceful conditions, which are of great concern to many of my present and former constituents, as well as to solicitors and many others.
3.51 pm
The Minister of State, Home Department (Mr. John Patten): I listened with care to the brief intervention of the hon. Member for Bradford, West (Mr. Madden) and I shall bring his remarks to the notice of my noble Friend Lord Caithness, who has ministerial responsibility for prisons. I also listened with great care to the comments of the hon. Member for St. Helens, South (Mr. Bermingham). We are all aware of the considerable interest that he takes in prisons and prison welfare. I hope that it will not damage him in the eyes of his general management committee if he is praised by a Tory Minister, but his interest is remarkable and we certainly listen to what he says.
I welcome the opportunity to set out again the record of a Government who continue to demonstrate their commitment to improving the quality and quantity of prison accommodation. We have been going hard at that very necessary task since 1979. We are, of course, concerned about conditions in prisons and the conditions in which prison officers work. We are equally concerned with the proper course of justice and for the victim. I was glad that the hon. Member for Bradford, West also mentioned his concern for the victims. We should always remember to balance our concern about what goes on in prisons with concern for the victim.
Mr. Bermingham indicated assent.
Mr. Patten: I am glad to see that the hon. Member for St. Helens, South agrees.
The prison population has risen extremely rapidly, and to record levels. Last Friday, 17 July, there were more than 51,200 sentenced and unsentenced prisoners in our prisons — 4,000 more than there were a year ago — and 735 mostly unsentenced prisoners were held in police cells awaiting transfer to prison department establishments. Those 51,000 people are held in accommodation designed for fewer than 42,000, which clearly causes us great concern and induces a considerable strain on prison service staff, who perform daily miracles of management and control to keep the system working. There is also a strain on the police, who are needed to fight crime on the streets and to detect and clear up serious crime in particular as well as to turn their attention to the important issue of crime prevention.
Overcrowding is not a new phenomenon that has suddenly occurred since 1979. The average prison population in this country has grown steadily and sometimes dramatically since the second world war. As the
700
hon. Members for St. Helens, South and for Bradford, West, like me, came to the House after 1979, I cannot blame them. [Interruption.] I am sorry—I forgot that the hon. Member for Bradford, West was a retread, but his second coming was after 1979. Perhaps I can partly blame him for the considerable cut in the prison building programme between 1974 and 1979—a cut of some 35 per cent. in real terms. Those hon. Gentlemen on the Labour Benches who were in the House before 1979 who protest about conditions inside our prisons and about overcrowding should remember their share of responsibility for the present-day circumstances in our prisons. It has taken a long time to make up that savage cut in prison building between 1974 and 1979.
Since 1979 the Government have introduced the biggest building and refurbishment programme this century. It is designed to produce 17,500 places at least by 1995–20 new prisons, with three already opened. There has been an increase of 3,600 prison places since June 1983 and there will be nearly another 2,000 by the end of this calender year. The programme will produce 3,000 new places in the 12 months from September and five new establishments will come on stream to give much needed relief to the prison officers and to those who are locked up, sometimes two or three to a cell. The building programme is matched by a refurbishment programme in other parts of the already built prison establishment that will help to improve both the quality and quantity of accommodation.
In his statement last week my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary announced his intention to accelerate and expand the prison building programme beyond the extra 17,500 places that will be achieved by 1995. This will mean more prisons and more places in prisons to relieve overcrowding and to make it possible for those who receive sentences to be received in prisons and for them to have better conditions which hopefully will enable more of them to be released and not reoffend.
Capital investment is an important issue. Spending on prison building has risen by over 100 per cent. in real terms, taking into account inflation, since 1979. We will set up a prisons building board to ensure that we set about the business of building new prisons efficiently and quickly to a high standard. That is something that we need very much. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will make a statement in due course about the composition of that board, but I can tell the House that it will be small and compact, that it will have a chief executive, who will drive forward the prison building programme, and that it will have representatives from those in the private sector who have been the customers of major building projects who are able to help and advise on how to make sure that we get prisons put up much more quickly than hitherto.
There is no reason why prison buildings should not change in the way that hospital buildings have changed inside the National Health Service under the basic nucleus concept of design that is being used. As the hon. Gentleman well knows, there has been a huge rebuilding programme in the NHS.
We will need to turn to the expertise of the building and construction industry, with its fast track and design and build techniques, which will enable us to get those prisons built much more quickly than hitherto. The prisons building board will have a fundamental part to play in the next two or three years in making sure that the increased number of prisons that my right hon. Friend will announce in due course will be built as speedily as possible.

701
The other side of the coin is what we are doing to try to keep people out of prison, and that is very important. We may have a chance to debate this on another occasion, but I think it is fair to say that we have the widest choice of non-custodial sentences available to the courts anywhere in Western Europe. Yesterday, I spent some time at the Inner London probation service visiting just such a facility, where it is clear that the criticism that one sometimes hears, which may sometimes be true, that non-custodial sentences are a soft option is simply not the case. They can be a punitive option.
We also encouraged, and issued guidance on, cautioning by the police. We are trying to help magistrates' courts to improve their performance by issuing guidance on efficiency, reducing delays and bail practices, all of which are most important. Since 1979 we have built 48 more court buildings. The number of circuit judges has gone up from 315 to 390, and we are looking, in three police areas, at statutory time limits to the period that the accused may be remanded in custody before coming to trial. When we get the results of those inquiries, we shall consider whether we should introduce the statutory schemes across England and Wales.
We have increased the resources for Crown courts. We have introduced various provisions to speed up the delivery of justice. All these measures have helped. They are no substitute for the pressing need of new accommodation, but that takes time. The Government have consistently shown themselves to be willing to get to grips with the problem of the growing prison population. We are not concerned with the short-term treatment of difficulties in response to problems in our prison system, but are taking a much longer view.
The hon. Member for St. Helens, South wants us to take a big hang long-term view. He wants us to have a Royal Commission. It is said that patriotism is the last resort of the scoundrel. I think that suggestions for Royal Commissions are the last resort of politicians who have run out of intellectual steam. I do not believe that of the hon. Gentleman and I do not intend him any discourtesy. However, to think that one can whisk a Royal Commission out of the air and that that will make things better is mistaken.
The hon. Gentleman knows full well what needs to be done. He has his own views, and he is a man of some influence in the Labour party nationally. He could do an enormous amount to help if only he would speak to some
702
Labour-controlled local authorities with police watch committees—for example, nine inner London boroughs and Manchester. Rather than harrying the police and making their already difficult task worse, such authorities should be doing all that they can to work with the police on crime prevention. I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman does not seem to think that crime prevention is important.
In places such as Manchester and inner London, the police and the general public should work together to make sure that crime is prevented, so that people are not tempted to commit crime and then, if charged and found guilty, end up in prison. That would be a more constructive attitude, and we do not need Royal Commissions to tell us that it was a disaster when, between 1974 and 1979, the Labour Government cut the prison building programme. We do not need a Royal Commission to tell us that we are struggling with the after effects of that.
I suspect that this will not be the last time that I answer a debate on this subject, although it is unusual to find oneself doing so towards teatime on Friday. Anybody in my constituency listening to this afternoon's proceedings on the wireless will know that I am telling the truth when I am late for my constituency advice centre this afternoon and explain that I was kept later than expected in the House of Commons. It is unusual in our procedures for a statement to be made at 2.30 on a Friday afternoon.
In the dying moments of the term, before we leave for our summer holidays, I conclude by saying that I hope that Opposition Members and you, Mr. Speaker, will have a very enjoyable and happy summer holiday, and I wish our retiring Clerk of the House of Commons, Sir Kenneth Bradshaw, who has made his last appearance at the Table this afternoon, a very happy retirement.
Mr. Speaker: I thank the Minister, who has pre-empted me. Before I adjourn the House, may I also take the opportunity to wish the Minister, all hon. Members and all members of the staff a happy and restful recess. As this is the last occasion when the Clerk will be at the Table, I want to say how much we appreciate his long service to the House. We all wish him well on his retirement.
The motion having been made after half-past Two o'clock, and the debate having continued for half an hour, MR. SPEAKER adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order, till Wednesday 21 October, pursuant to the resolution of the House of 13 July.
Adjourned at five minutes past Four o'clock.

EDUCATION AND SCIENCE

  Special Education
  Mr. Hannam
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when he will respond to the recommendations for the training of further education staff with responsibilities for special educational needs made in his report "A Special Professionalism."

  Mr. Dunn
  This report, the result of a study sponsored by the Department, puts forward a set of training programmes to meet the requirements of groups of staff with different degrees of special needs involvement, as its core recommendation. As the report recognises the full possibilities envisaged could be achieved only over the longer term. The Government will carefully consider these, and any steps that might be taken meantime. It has encouraged the development of some of the programmes by designating special needs training for local authority advisers, college managers and special needs co-ordinators as a national priority area for local education authority training grants in the present financial year. I am pleased to report that the Manpower Services Commission has alocated £40,000 to the further education unit for the development of a programme for mainstream teaching staff with a major special needs involvement in collaboration with the National Bureau for Handicapped Students.

  Schools (Financial Delegations)
  Mr. Fatchett
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will list those local education authorities which operate schemes of financial delegations to schools.

  Mr. Dunn
  A summary undertaken last year indicated that among the local education authorities operating schemes of financial delegation to some or all of their schools are the following:

  Berkshire

  Humberside

  Buckinghamshire

  Lincolnshire

  Cambridgeshire

  Norfolk

  Cheshire

  Northumberland

  Cornwall

  Oxfordshire

  Cumbria

  Somerset

  Devon

  Surrey

  East Sussex

  West Sussex

  Gloucestershire

  Calderdale

  Hereford and Worcester

  ILEA

  Hertfordshire

  Solihull

  Since then a pilot scheme has been introduced in some schools in Kent.

  Ethnic Pupils
  Mr. Oppenheim
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when he will issue for consultation the draft circular on the collection of ethnically based statistics on school pupils.

  Mr. Dunn
  The draft circular has been issued for consultation today and copies have been placed in the Library. In addition, 4 local education authorities — Berkshire, Bradford, Cleveland and Wolverhampton— have been invited to set up pilot schemes for the collection of ethnically based statistics on school pupils during the academic year 1987–88.

  Lecturers
  Mr. Ron Davies
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he has any plans to increase the number of lecturers in higher education in order to meet the Government's projected increase in student access outlined in the White Paper, "Meeting the Challenge"; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Jackson
  The number of lecturers in higher education is a matter for those who employ them, in the light of the various demands on the resources available and taking into account such factors as the range of provision and the number of students in each institution. The Government will continue to make funds available for higher education overall at a realistic level, in line with what the nation can afford.

  Mr. Ron Davies
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what information he has on average pay levels of higher and further education lecturers, and higher education lecturers, respectively, in each or all the the following (a) England and Wales, (b) Great Britain, (c) universities in the United Kingdom, (d) polytechnics in England and Wales and (e) all non-university higher education in Great Britain; and what equivalent information he has, converted to pound sterling, in relation to (i) France, (ii) Spain, (iii) Italy, (iv) West Germany and (v) the United States of America.

  Mrs. Rumbold
  I shall reply to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

  Higher Education (Access)
  Mr. Ron Davies
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science by how much he intends to increase the projected resources outlined in Cm. 56 in public sector higher education in order to finance the projected increase in access outlined in the Government's White Paper, "Meeting the Challenge".

  Mr. Jackson
  The Government's public expenditure plans for 1988–89 and the two succeeding years are under review. Funding for the polytechnics and colleges in 1988–89 will be determined in the context of overall decisions about local authority expenditure this autumn. The number of students in the system will he one of the factors taken into account in this process.

  Mr. Ron Davies
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether it is his intention that the projected increase in student access outlined in the Government White Paper, "Meeting the Challenge", will

  499
  be concentrated in institutions presently under local education authority control; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Jackson
  The Government are planning for a further overall increase of 50,000 in the number of higher education students by 1990. Actual numbers, and where they study, will depend on various factors, in particular on the recruitment decisions of individual institutions.

  Higher Education
  Mr. Ron Davies
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will provide figures relating to the cost to central and local government of higher education, full-tine equivalent students in the university (United Kingdom) and non-university (England and Wales) sectors, respectively, for 1979–80, 1980–81, 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1984–85 and 1985–86; and what is the estimate for 1986–87.

  Mr. Jackson
  I shall write to the hon. Member.

  Physical Education
  Mr. Denis Howell
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when he intends to set up a working group to recommend attainment targets and programmes of study for physical education, within the framework of the Government's proposals for a national curriculum.

  Mrs. Rumbold
  The first subject working groups are being set up in science, mathematics and English. Other groups will be set up as soon as possible. My right hon. Friend is still considering the sequence of working groups for the foundation subjects other than science, mathematics and English.

  Working Group on Physical Education
  Mr. Denis Howell
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he intends to include representatives of swimming associations in the working group on physical education to he set up within the framework of the Government's proposals for a national curriculum.

  Mrs. Rumbold
  Members of subject working groups are being appointed for their personal knowledge and expertise, not as representatives of institutions or bodies. Each subject working group will have a small membership comprising a chairman and members drawn mainly from the headteachers and teachers of primary and secondary schools, local education authority advisers, higher education and the world of exployment. The intention is that, between them, members will have knowledge of and expertise in all the major aspects of their foundation subjects.

  School Meals
  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science (1) how many children in each education authority area received free school meals in 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986 and the current year;

  (2) how many children in each education authority area received free school meals in 1987; and what are the equivalent figures for 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985 and 1986.
  500
  Mr. Dunn
  The figures requested are collected annually in October as part of the school meals census. The data are published and copies of the relevant reports are in the Library of the House. It was not possible to collect this information in October 1985. The results of the 1987 census will not be available until early 1988.

  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what are the total numbers of staff employed in the school meals service by education authority area in the current year; and what are the equivalent figures for 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985 and 1986.

  Mr. Dunn
  The precise information requested is not collected by my Department. The annual school meals census for October 1986, a copy of which is in the Library, gives a breakdown of the number of kitchen and canteen staff; midday supervisors and other adults present on the day of the census. This information was not collected in previous years.

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the estimated expenditure of his Department in the current year on management and computer consultancy.

  Mrs. Rumbold
  Estimated expenditure on management and computer consultancy in the current financial year is £414,112. In addition we estimate expenditure of approximately £400,000 associated with the privatisation of the Plant Breeding Institute.

  Pupil-Teacher Ratio
  Mr. Amess
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will list in tabular form (a) the number of teachers in each local education authority in England and Wales, (b) the number of pupils in each and (c) the teacher-pupil ratio of each.

  Mr. Dunn
  The information requested for each local education authority in England in January 1986 is given in the following table: Figures for local education authorities in Wales are the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales.

  Teachers, pupils and pupil/ teacher ratios in each LEA in England.

  January 1986.

  1Teachers

  2Pupils

  Pupil/ teacher ratio

  Barking

  1,382

  23,694

  17·1

  Barnet

  2,524

  39,681

  15·7

  Bexley

  1,776

  32,759

  18·4

  Brent

  2,456

  33,919

  13·8

  Bromley

  2,071

  37,386

  18·1

  Croydon

  2,547

  43,651

  17·1

  Ealing

  2,262

  36,716

  16·2

  Enfield

  2,210

  38,437

  17·4

  Haringey

  1,929

  26,086

  13·5

  Harrow

  1,575

  26,216

  16·6

  Havering

  2,135

  36,965

  17·3

  Hillingdon

  1,732

  32,221

  18·6

  Hounslow

  1,867

  30,407

  16·3

  Kingston-upon-Thames

  1,035

  17,396

  16·8

  Merton

  1,236

  21,419

  17·3

  Newham

  2,317

  34,985

  15·1

  Redbridge

  1,673

  29,996

  17·9

  Richmond-upon-Thames

  928

  15,857

  17·1

  501

  1 Teachers

  2 Pupils

  Pupil/teacher ratio

  Sutton

  1,162

  22,044

  19·0

  Waltham Forest

  2,073

  31,042

  15·0

  Inner London

  20,395

  275,590

  13·5

  Birmingham

  9,621

  170,453

  17·7

  Coventry

  2,972

  49,268

  16·6

  Dudley

  2,668

  46,929

  17·6

  Sandwell

  3,001

  50,467

  16·8

  Solihull

  1,882

  34,308

  18·2

  Walsall

  2,918

  47,832

  16·4

  Wolverhampton

  2,674

  42,565

  15·9

  Knowsley

  1,779

  28,511

  16·0

  Liverpool

  4,829

  79,284

  16·4

  St. Helens

  1,882

  32,437

  17·2

  Sefton

  2,556

  46,657

  18·3

  Wirral

  2,919

  52,670

  18·0

  Bolton

  2,496

  45,141

  18·1

  Bury

  1,598

  27,104

  17·0

  Manchester

  4,402

  69,654

  15·8

  Oldham

  2,145

  38,186

  17·8

  Rochdale

  2,204

  36,177

  16·4

  Salford

  2,287

  38,455

  16·8

  Stockport

  2,478

  44,743

  18·1

  Tameside

  2,020

  35,888

  17·8

  Trafford

  1,601

  29,807

  18·6

  Wigan

  3,303

  53,701

  16·3

  Barnsley

  2,118

  36,389

  17·2

  Doncaster

  2,810

  49,256

  17·5

  Rotherham

  2,495

  44,160

  17·7

  Sheffield

  4,614

  76,574

  16·6

  Bradford

  4,835

  81,503

  16·9

  Calderdale

  1,914

  32,473

  17·0

  Kirklees

  3,576

  64,186

  18·0

  Leeds

  6,454

  108,935

  16·9

  Wakefield

  2,689

  50,126

  18·6

  Gateshead

  1,832

  31,116

  17·0

  Newcastle-upon-Tyne

  2,527

  39,446

  15·6

  North Tyneside

  2,090

  30,741

  14·7

  South Tyneside

  1,562

  24,644

  15·8

  Sunderland

  2,898

  51,544

  17·8

  Isles of Scilly

  25

  278

  11·1

  Avon

  7,325

  135,133

  18·5

  Bedfordshire

  4,703

  83,899

  17·8

  Berkshire

  6,028

  107,388

  17·8

  Buckinghamshire

  4,970

  95,428

  19·2

  Cambridgeshire

  5,036

  95,944

  19·1

  Cheshire

  8,271

  151,474

  18·3

  Cleveland

  5,540

  99,728

  18·0

  Cornwall

  3,733

  67,601

  18·1

  Cumbria

  4,415

  75,804

  17·2

  Derbyshire

  8,087

  143,397

  17·7

  Devon

  7,150

  131,325

  18·4

  Dorset

  4,429

  79,784

  18·0

  Durham

  5,186

  96,346

  18·6

  East Sussex

  4,356

  80,441

  18·5

  Essex

  11,971

  230,484

  19·3

  Gloucestershire

  4,072

  75,562

  18·6

  Hampshire

  11,364

  216,297

  19·0

  Hereford and Worcester

  5,317

  97,416

  18·3

  Hertfordshire

  8,462

  151,651

  17·9

  Humberside

  8,163

  141,684

  17·4

  Isle of Wight

  911

  16,981

  18·6

  Kent

  11,813

  224,680

  19·0

  Lancashire

  11,618

  214,675

  18·5

  Leicestershire

  7,879

  138,743

  17·6

  Lincolnshire

  4,519

  84,707

  18·7

  Norfolk

  5,716

  104,292

  18·3

  North Yorkshire

  5,561

  100,292

  18·0

  Northamptonshire

  5,423

  93,468

  17·2

  Northumberland

  2,711

  48,706

  18·0

  Nottinghamshire

  8,854

  153,833

  17·4

  Oxfordshire

  4,354

  75,083

  17·2

  Shropshire

  3,608

  62,934

  17·4

  Somerset

  3,345

  63,625

  19·0

  Staffordshire

  9,102

  164,294

  18·0

  Suffolk

  4,990

  91,437

  18·3

  502

  1Teachers

  2Pupils

  Pupil/teacher ratio

  Surrey

  6,925

  125,392

  18·1

  Warwickshire

  4,000

  74,253

  18·6

  West Sussex

  4,870

  91,802

  18·9

  Wiltshire

  4,206

  79,781

  19·0

  1 The total number of teachers paid by local education authorities including the full-time equivalent of all qualified teachers, student teachers and instructors employed for service in maintained nursery, primary and secondary schools.

  2 The total number of full-time equivalent pupils in maintained nursery, primary and secondary schools.

  Technology and Computers
  Mr. Amess
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement on present measures to increase instruction and application of technology and computers in schools.

  Mrs. Rumbold
  I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave on 22 July to my hon. Friend the Member for Hyndburn (Mr. Hargreaves).

  Grant-maintained Schools
  Mr. Pawsey
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he is able to give more information about the Government's plans for grant-maintained schools.

  Mr. Kenneth Baker
  I intend to bring forward legislation to enable the governors of county and voluntary maintained schools, with the support of the parents, to apply for maintenance by grant from central Government instead of maintenance by local education authorities. The Government believe that this proposal, which will extend to all secondary schools and to larger primary schools, will add a new and powerful dimension to the ability of parents to exercise choice within the publicly provided sector of education.

  I am today publishing a consultation paper which explains the Government's proposals in detail. I should be glad to receive comments in response to it by 30 September 1987. Copies of the consultation paper have been placed in the Library and the Vote Office.

  National Curriculum
  Mr. Patrick Thompson
  asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement about the Government's plans to introduce a national curriculum in schools.

  Mr. Kenneth Baker
  My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales and I propose to bring forward legislation in the autumn to introduce a national curriculum for pupils age 5 to 16 in maintained schools in England and Wales. We are today publishing a consultation document which develops in more detail the proposals I announced to the Education, Science and Arts Select Committee on 7 April.

  This historic reform represents the culmination of over 10 years of debate which has resulted in general agreement about the aims of school education and widespread support for the idea of a national curriculum. Our legislation will now secure for pupils of all abilities and in all areas the benefits of a good and relevant curriculum. which is essential if standards are to be raised. A national

  503
  curriculum will also ensure that clear objectives are set for all pupils, within a framework which pupils, teachers, parents, employers and others understand and can support. Pupils' progress towards their objectives will be measured so as to ensure that they are achieving the best they can.

  Comments on the main legislation are being invited by 30 September. There will be further consultations as more detailed proposals come forward in relation to individual subjects.

  Copies of the consultation document have been placed in the Library and the Vote Office.

OVERSEAS DEVELOPMENT

  Tuvalu (International Trust Fund)
  Mr. Wells
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what provision he is making to pay the United Kingdom contribution of 8·5 million Australian dollars to the International Trust Fund for Tuvalu.

  Mr. Chris Patten
  Ratification of the agreement establishing the trust fund, which was laid before the House on 25 June for the requisite 21 days, can now he given effect. Financial provision will be sought in a winter supplementary estimate for the overseas aid vote. Pending that vote, urgent expenditure estimated at about £3·86 million will be met by a repayable advance from the contingencies fund.

  Technical Co-operation Training Programme
  Mr. Teddy Taylor
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many awards and of what amount were made under the technical co-operation training programme in the most recent year for which figures are available; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Chris Patten
  A total of 10,500 awards were held under the technical co-operation training programme during the financial year 1986–87 at a cost of £58·7 million.

  Training Schemes
  Mr. Teddy Taylor
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will publish a list of the various training schemes abroad for foreign nationals which have been financed by his Department; if he will further give in each case the object of the training courses; and what have been the total sums involved, in each of the most recent three years for which figures are available.

  Mr. Chris Patten
  I shall write to my hon. Friend and place copies in the Library of the House.

  Development Aid
  Mr. Amess
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the present level of overseas development aid given to (a) Africa, (b) South and South East Asia and (c) Latin America.

  Mr. Chris Patten
  Gross public expenditure on overseas aid in 1986 was:
  504

  £ million

  Africa

  285

  South and South East Asia

  302

  Latin America

  22

  Somalia and Mozambique
  Ms. Quin
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what representations he will make to his European colleagues within the Council of Ministers concerning the granting of extra emergency food aid from the European Economic Community to Somalia and Mozambique; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Chris Patten
  The Community agreed earlier this month to allocate another 55,000 tonnes of food aid to Mozambique, in addition to 60,000 tonnes allocated in March, and to provide 13,500 tonnes to Somalia. We are monitoring the situation in both countries closely, and will urge further Community help if required.

  Ms. Quin
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what extra emergency aid the Government is planning to provide for Somalia and Mozambique in view of the shortage of food in both countries at the present time.

  Mr. Chris Patten
  We are already delivering 7,000 tonnes of bilateral food aid to Mozambique, and we have pledged a further 30,000 tonnes. In all, we are providing nearly £14 million of bilateral emergency help this year. For Somalia, we provided veterinary drugs and other emergency aid during the drought, as well as tarpaulins when the drought was ended by floods. The latest Food and Agriculture Organisation report shows that at the end of June the overall food supply situation remained satisfactory. I am ready to consider providing further emergency aid to both Somalia and Mozambique in the light of their needs and what other donors are doing.

HOUSE OF COMMONS

  Parliamentary Pension Scheme
  Mr. Hanley
  asked the Lord Privy Seal whether he proposes to refer the parliamentary pension scheme to the Top Salaries Review Body.

  Mr. Wakeham
  I have today written to the chairman of the TSRB asking the TSRB to review the parliamentary pension scheme. In my letter I drew his attention to the anomalies in the scheme which had been raised during the passage of the Parliamentary and Other Pensions Act 1987. I referred also to specific issues about which Members have expressed concern during our discussion of the proposals in that Act, and to a particular point which had been raised earlier in the House of Lords. In addition, I have asked the TSRB to consider the pension arrangements for the Lord Chancellor, the Speaker and the Prime Minister, and to look at the possibility of introducing severance payments for Ministers and officeholders other than those in the House of Lords who can already receive them.

  A copy of the letter has been placed in the Library of the House.

  EC Reports (Debates)
  Mr. Robertson
  asked the Lord Privy Seal if he will make arrangements for debates on the six-month reports on the European Community to take place within two months of them being placed before the House.

  Mr. Wakeham
  It is the Government's policy to arrange for debates on the six-monthly White Papers on developments in the European Community to be held as soon as practicable after publication. The exact timing will depend on the pressure of other business before the House.

ATTORNEY-GENERAL

  Law Centres
  Mr. Vaz
  asked the Attorney-General if he will list the number of law centres currently in existence; how many are in receipt of central Government funds; how many are known to have closed since 1970 due to lack of funds; and if he will make a statement.

  The Attorney-General
  There is no central Government register of law centres, nor is information held centrally on how many have closed since 1970 due to lack of funds. However, there are 57 members of the Law Centres Federation (this includes Small Heath community law

  Amounts paid to solicitors under the criminal and civil legal aid schemes

  Year

  Criminal

  Civil

  Criminal-magistrates courts1 Green Form (criminal) Court and 24 hour duty solicitor schemes2

  Criminal legal aid in the higher courts

  Green Form (civil) ABWOR3 Summary jurisdiction Civil legal aid

  £ million

  £ million

  £ million

  1977–78

  21·3

  424·3

  37·1

  1978–79

  25·9

  426·4

  43·1

  1979–80

  31·4

  431·5

  48·1

  1980–81

  41·1

  443·0

  65·9

  1981–82

  48·6

  448·2

  87·9

  1982–83

  57·6

  45l·6

  110·9

  1983–84

  64·6

  458·3

  132·9

  1984–85

  73·1

  533·7

  159·3

  1985–86

  89·9

  536·4

  181·1

  1986–87

  109·6

  542·6

  197·2

  1 Amounts paid lo solicitors for criminal legal aid in magistrates courts include counsels' fees where counsel are not separately assigned.

  2 Court duty solicitor scheme from 1984–85 onwards and 24-hour duty solicitor scheme from 1985–86 onwards.

  3 ABWOR from 1980–81 onwards.

  4 Solicitors and counsel.

  5 Solicitors only.

  Council for Licensed Conveyancers
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Attorney-General what arrangements will be made for hon. Members and other interested persons to make representations about the scheme provided for in paragraph 4 of schedule 3 to the Administration of Justice Act 1985 and comments on it (a) while the preparation of that scheme is under consideration by the Council for Licensed Conveyancers, (b) when a draft for that scheme has been prepared by the Council for Licensed Conveyancers but has not yet been submitted to the Lord Chancellor and (c) when the draft for that scheme has been submitted to the Lord Chancellor and is or is about to be under consideration by him.

  The Attorney-General
  (a) None; (b) the Council for Licensed Conveyancers will send a draft of the scheme to
  506
  centre from which local authority funding is, I understand, being withdrawn); and I know of three others which are not members of the federation.

  Seven law centres and the Law Centres Federation receive funds from the Lord Chancellor's Department. A further seven law centres received urban programme support during the last financial year.

  The Government accept that law centres may, depending on local circumstances, have a part to play in the provision of legal services as a supplement to the legal aid and legal advice and assistance schemes. The establishment of and provision of support for law centres, are, however, seen as essentially matters for local decision and initiative.

  Solicitors
  Mr. Vaz
  asked the Attorney-General how much public money has been paid to private solicitors through (a) the criminal legal aid scheme, and (b) the civil legal aid scheme in each of the last 10 years.

  The Attorney-General
  The table gives the gross amounts paid to solicitors through(a) the criminal legal aid scheme and (b) the civil legal aid scheme in each of the last 10 years. It is not possible to separate the amounts paid to solicitors and to counsel for criminal legal aid in the higher courts for the years before 1984–85.

  licensed conveyancers and other interested parties, seeking their views; (c) a draft of the scheme will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Attorney-General whether an appointment will be made to bring up to 10 the number of members of the Council for Licensed Conveyancers as is provided for in paragraph 3 of schedule 3 to the Administration of Justice Act 1985; and whether a practising conveyancer will be appointed to fill the vacancy.

  The Attorney-General
  Mr. Peter Davis, a practising licensed conveyancer and the secretary of the National Association of Conveyancers, was appointed to the Council for Licensed Conveyancers as from 16 July 1987. There are now 11 members of the council, including the chairman.
  507
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Attorney-General what was the cost of the Council for Licensed Conveyancers for the first year of its operation from March 1986.

  The Attorney-General
  The cost for licensed conveyancers for the year from 1 April 1986 to 31 March 1987 was £102,996·83. The financial year of the council runs from 1 April to 31 March and disproportionate cost would be involved in trying to obtain figures for 1 March 1986 to 28 February 1987.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Attorney-General what staff the Council for Licensed Conveyancers has; what are the ages and qualifications of the secretary and assistant secretary and the education/examinations officer of that council; and what was the total for wages and salaries and employer's national insurance contributions paid out by that council in its first year since March 1986.

  The Attorney-General
  The Council for Licensed Conveyancers has six staff comprising the secretary, the assistant secretary (who is also the education and examination officer), two administrative officers and two administrative assistants.

  Office

  First Registrations

  Transfer of Part/Dispositionary First Lease

  Dealing

  All Categories

  Croydon

  56

  100

  57

  77

  Harrow

  49

  136

  60

  90

  Tunbridge Wells

  180

  215

  56

  114

  Lytham

  140

  107

  65

  113

  Nottingham

  170

  115

  20

  95

  Gloucester

  165

  165

  65

  114

  Stevenage

  155

  115

  42

  82

  Durham

  102

  97

  49

  83

  Plymouth

  130

  129

  75

  120

  Swansea

  135

  85

  44

  103

  Birkenhead

  116

  123

  60

  98

  Weymouth

  154

  99

  48

  91

  Peterborough

  138

  87

  33

  89

  Judges
  Mr. Vaz
  asked the Attorney-General what information the Lord Chancellor's Department collects on the previous political activities, including standing for Parliament, of people being considered for appointment as High Court judges.

  The Attorney-General
  The Lord Chancellor's policy is to appoint (or recommend for appointment) to every judicial post the candidate who appears to him best qualified to fill it and to perform its duties, regardless of political allegiance. In the course of considering candidates for appointment, information is often received from the candidate himself about his past and present political activities (including, for example, whether he has ever stood for Parliament) as part of the information he gives about his general background and interests.

  Mentally Handicapped Persons
  Mr. Ken Hargreaves
  asked the Attorney-General how many successful prosecutions for unlawful sexual intercourse with a defective there have been since June 1987.

  The Attorney-General
  None.
  508
  The secretary is aged 38, holds an LLB degree and is a barrister; the assistant secretary is aged 25 and holds a BA degree (in law and economics).

  The wages and salaries and employers' national insurance contributions paid out by the council in the year 1 April 1986 to 31 March 1987 totalled £47,102·84. The council's financial year runs from 1 April to 31 March and disproportionate cost would be incurred in trying to obtain figures for year 1 March 1986 to 28 February 1987.

  Land Registries
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Attorney-General if he will bring up to the latest convenient date the information about the average completion times in working days taken by each of the district land registries to act on applications relating to title which he gave in an answer on 9 April, Official Report, columns 355 and 356.

  The Attorney-General
  The table shows for each district land registry the average completion times in working days at the end of June 1987 for each category of substantive application.

  Mr. Ken Hargreaves
  asked the Attorney-General how many cases are under consideration by the Director of Public Prosecutions and Crown Prosecution Service relating to alleged unlawful sexual intercourse with a defective; and if he will make a statement.

  The Attorney-General
  Three cases relating to alleged unlawful sexual intercourse with a mental defective are under consideration by the Crown Prosecution Service. Five cases are at present before the courts.

  Civil Justice Review
  Mr. Fatchett
  asked the Attorney-General if he will make a statement on the progress the Lord Chancellor's Department is making with the housing aspects of its review of civil justice; what timetable it is working to with regard to further action; and if he will make a statement.

  The Attorney-General
  Good progress is being made on every aspect of the review and it is hoped that recommendations on all the matters it has covered will be available to my noble and learned Friend early in 1988.

  Mr. Fatchett
  asked the Attorney-General if he will list the organisations which submitted responses to the Lord Chancellor's Department's civil justice review's housing

  509
  cases consultation paper; if he will place copies of these submissions in the Library; and if he will make available the summary of these submissions prepared for the civil justice review's advisory committee.

  The Attorney-General
  Once the review is completed, for which the target is early 1988, my noble and learned Friend will consider how much information about the responses should be made available; there have so far been some 700 responses to the six consultation papers, and some have been offered on the understanding that they would not be published.

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tint Smith
  asked the Attorney-General what is the estimated expenditure of the Lord Chancellor's Department in the current year on management and computer consultancy.

  The Attorney-General
  The estimated expenditure of the Lord Chancellor's Department in the current financial year on management and computer consultancy is £367,500.

  Wills (Publication)
  Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson
  asked the Attorney-General what representations he has received relating to the disadvantages of the practice of publication of wills; and if he will make a statement.

  The Attorney-General
  The Lord Chancellor receives representations from time to time that embarrassment is caused to testators' families by the publication of wills in newspapers. However, wills are available for public inspection both to prevent fraud and abuse and to enable benficiaries and creditors to discover whether it is worth making any claim against the estate concerned.

  Immigration Act 1971—Appeals to Adjudicators

  Pakistan

  Appeal categories

  Number of appeals referred

  Number allowed

  Number dismissed

  Number withdrawn

  1 January 1986–31 December 1986

  1. Exclusion—Appeal at Port

  12

  —

  3

  3

  2. Exclusion—External Appeals

  73

  12

  44

  7

  3. Refusal of Certificate Entitlement

  —

  —

  —

  —

  4. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Temporary purposes (not husbands or wives or fiances or fiancees)

  16

  7

  20

  3

  5. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Employment, Business or Independent Means (not husbands, wives, fiances or fiancees)

  3

  1

  6

  1

  6. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by Wives and Children, other dependent relatives and returning residents

  867

  307

  527

  175

  7. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by female fiancees

  1

  1

  —

  —

  8. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by husbands

  111

  36

  42

  15

  9. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by male fiances

  418

  148

  202

  58

  10. Variation of Landing Conditions (including curtailment of stay or duration or conditions of leave to remain given to persons previously exempted (S.14(2))

  22

  —

  3

  6

  11. Refusal to Vary Leave to Enter

  277

  30

  141

  120

  12. Decision to make Deportation Order

  27

  1

  17

  4

  13. Refusal to Revoke Deportation Order

  4

  1

  1

  1

  14. Giving of Removal Directions

  2

  —

  2

  —

  15. Destination Only Appeal

  2

  —

  4

  —

  Total

  1,835

  544

  11,012

  393

  Mortgage Repossessions
  Mr. Battle
  asked the Attorney-General how many court actions relating to mortgage repossessions occurred in Leeds, West in each year since 1979.

  The Attorney-General
  Figures relating solely to Leeds, West are not available. The number of mortgage actions for possession entered in Leeds county court in each year since 1982 (the first year for which figures are available for individual county courts) were:

  Number

  1982

  803

  1983

  508

  1984

  558

  1985

  800

  1986

  773

  Immigration
  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Attorney-General if he will provide a table of the number of appeals to immigration adjudicators allowed, dismissed or withdrawn in 1986 and in the first quarter of 1987, broken down by category of appeal and nationality of applicant.

  The Attorney-General
  For 1986 and the first quarter of 1987, statistics for the number of appeals to the immigration adjudicators which were referred, allowed, dismissed or withdrawn are as shown in the table, with a breakdown by category of appeal, and information regarding the origin of the applicant. Information regarding the precise nationality of individual applicants is not available.
  511

  Appeal categories

  Number of appeals referred

  Number allowed

  Number dismissed

  Number withdrawn

  1 January 1987–31 March 1987

  1. Exclusion—Appeal at Port

  3

  —

  1

  2

  2. Exclusion—External Appeals

  12

  —

  15

  4

  3. Refusal of Certificate Entitlement

  1

  —

  —

  —

  4. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Temporary purposes (not husbands or wives or fiances or fiancees)

  153

  —

  6

  3

  5. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Employment, Business or Independent Means (not husbands, wives, fiances or fiancees)

  4

  —

  2

  1

  6. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by Wives and Children, other dependent relatives and returning residents

  73

  48

  110

  22

  7. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by female fiancees

  —

  3

  —

  —

  8. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by husbands

  28

  17

  11

  2

  9. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by male fiances

  91

  55

  54

  20

  10. Variation of Landing Conditions (including curtailment of stay or duration or conditions of leave to remain given to persons previously exempted (S.14(2))

  —

  —

  2

  —

  11. Refusal to Vary Leave to Enter

  63

  12

  24

  20

  12. Decision to make Deportation Order

  3

  3

  4

  2

  13. Refusal to Revoke Deportation Order

  —

  —

  1

  1

  14. Giving of Removal Directions

  —

  —

  1

  —

  15. Destination Only Appeal

  1

  —

  2

  2

  Total

  432

  138

  233

  79

  1 There was, in addition, 1 case where the Immigration Adjudicators had no jurisdiction to hear the appeal.

  Bangladesh

  Appeal categories

  Number of appeals referred

  Number allowed

  Number dismissed

  Number withdrawn

  1 January 1986–31 December 1986

  1. Exclusion—Appeal at Port

  49

  1

  22

  3

  2. Exclusion—External Appeals

  70

  2

  46

  7

  3. Refusal of Certificate Entitlement

  68

  —

  10

  —

  4. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Temporary purposes (not husbands or wives or fiances or fiancees)

  192

  30

  88

  13

  5. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Employment, Business or Independent Means (not husbands, wives, fiances or fiancees)

  5

  1

  1

  2

  6. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by Wives and Children, other dependent relatives and returning residents

  2,833

  886

  1,697

  291

  7. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by female fiancees

  —

  —

  —

  1

  8. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by husbands

  47

  18

  13

  1

  9. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by male fiances

  11

  1

  1

  1

  10. Variation of Landing Conditions (including curtailment of stay or duration or conditions of leave to remain given to persons previously exempted (S.14(2))

  5

  —

  4

  —

  11. Refusal to Vary Leave to Enter

  91

  6

  48

  34

  12. Decision to make Deportation Order

  4

  1

  3

  —

  13. Refusal to Revoke Deportation Order

  1

  —

  1

  —

  14. Giving of Removal Directions

  2

  1

  3

  —

  15. Destination Only Appeal

  1

  —

  1

  —

  Total

  3,379

  947

  1,938

  353

  1 January 1987–31 March 1987

  1. Exlusion—Appeal at Port

  37

  1

  9

  1

  2. Exclusion—External Appeals

  40

  1

  11

  4

  3. Refusal of Certificate Entitlement

  19

  —

  —

  —

  4. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Temporary purposes (not husbands or wives or fiances or fiancees)

  83

  4

  24

  6

  5. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Employment, Business or Independent Means (not husbands, wives, fiances or fiancees)

  —

  —

  8

  1

  6. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by Wives and Children, other dependent relatives and returning residents

  551

  192

  348

  66

  7. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by female fiancees

  —

  —

  —

  —

  8. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by husbands

  4

  5

  3

  1

  9. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by male fiances

  —

  2

  1

  —

  10. Variation of Landing Conditions (including curtailment of stay or duration or conditions of leave to remain given to persons previously exempted (S.14(2))

  1

  —

  —

  —

  11. Refusal to Vary Leave to Enter

  21

  1

  15

  4

  12. Decision to make Deportation Order

  1

  —

  2

  —

  13. Refusal to Revoke Deportation Order

  —

  —

  —

  —

  14. Giving of Removal Directions

  —

  —

  —

  —

  512 513

  Appeal categories

  Number of appeals referred

  Number allowed

  Number dismissed

  Number withdrawn

  15. Destination Only Appeal

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Total

  757

  206

  421

  83

  India

  Appeal categories

  Number of appeals referred

  Number allowed

  Number dismissed

  Number withdrawn

  1 January 1986–31 December 1986

  1. Exclusion—Appeal at Port

  1

  1

  —

  1

  2. Exclusion—External Appeals

  91

  2

  36

  10

  3. Refusal of Certificate Entitlement

  4

  —

  1

  —

  4. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Temporary purposes (not husbands or wives or fiances or fiancees)

  66

  23

  45

  14

  5. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Employment, Business or Independent Means (not husbands, wives, fiances or fiancees)

  9

  1

  5

  1

  6. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by wives and children, other dependant relatives and returning residents

  237

  64

  113

  49

  7. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by female fiancees

  5

  —

  —

  —

  8. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by husbands

  156

  36

  85

  19

  9. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by male fiances

  416

  89

  197

  60

  10. Variation of Landing Conditions (including curtailment of stay or duration or conditions of leave to remain given to persons previously exempted (S.14(2))

  22

  —

  19

  3

  11 Refusal to Vary Leave to Enter

  354

  18

  196

  120

  12. Decision to make Deportation Order

  30

  1

  32

  8

  13. Refusal to Revoke Deportation Order

  6

  —

  3

  —

  14. Giving of Removal Directions

  2

  —

  4

  —

  15. Destination Only Appeal

  5

  —

  4

  1

  Total

  1,404

  235

  740

  286

  1 January 1987–31 March 1987

  1. Exlusion—Appeal at Port

  —

  —

  1

  —

  2. Exclusion—External Appeals

  15

  —

  15

  3

  3. Refusal of Certificate Entitlement

  —

  —

  —

  —

  4. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Temporary purposes (not husbands or wives or fiances or fiancees)

  30

  3

  11

  4

  5. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Employment, Business or Independent Means (not husbands, wives, fiances or fiancees)

  —

  —

  5

  6

  6. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by wives and children, other dependant relatives and returning residents

  30

  2

  24

  15

  7. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by female fiancees

  3

  —

  —

  —

  8. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by husbands

  57

  7

  21

  1

  9. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by male fiances

  81

  31

  50

  33

  10. Variation of Landing Conditions (including curtailment of stay or duration or conditions of leave to remain given to persons previously exempted (S.14(2))

  1

  —

  1

  2

  11. Refusal to Vary Leave to Enter

  70

  12

  50

  40

  12. Decision to make Deportation Order

  9

  2

  3

  2

  13. Refusal to Revoke Deportation Order

  1

  —

  —

  —

  14. Giving of Removal Directions

  1

  1

  —

  —

  15. Destination Only Appeal

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Total

  298

  58

  1181

  106

  1 There was, in addition, 1 case where the Immigration Adjudicators had no jurisdiction to hear the appeal.

  EEC

  Appeal categories

  Number of appeals referred

  Number allowed

  Number dismissed

  Number withdrawn

  1 January 1986–31 December 1986

  1. Exclusion—Appeal at Port

  —

  —

  —

  —

  2. Exclusion—External Appeals

  37

  2

  28

  8

  3. Refusal of Certificate Entitlement

  —

  —

  —

  —

  4. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Temporary purposes (not husbands or wives or fiances or fiancees)

  2

  —

  —

  1

  5. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Employment, Business or Independent Means (not husbands, wives, fiances or fiancees)

  —

  1

  3

  1

  6. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by Wives and Children, other dependent relatives and returning residents

  3

  1

  2

  1

  514 515

  Appeal categories

  Number of appeals referred

  Number allowed

  Number dismissed

  Number withdrawn

  7. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by female fiancees

  —

  —

  —

  —

  8. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by husbands

  1

  —

  1

  —

  9. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by male fiances

  1

  —

  —

  1

  10. Variation of Landing Conditions (including curtailment of stay or duration or conditions of leave to remain given to persons previously exempted (S.14(2))

  7

  —

  16

  2

  11. Refusal to Vary Leave to Enter

  70

  2

  35

  35

  12. Decision to make Deportation Order

  5

  —

  1

  5

  13. Refusal to Revoke Deportation Order

  1

  —

  2

  —

  14. Giving of Removal Directions

  —

  —

  —

  —

  15. Destination Only Appeal

  2

  —

  1

  —

  Total

  129

  6

  89

  54

  1 January 1987–31 March 1987

  1. Exclusion—Appeal at Port

  —

  —

  3

  5

  2. Exclusion—External Appeals

  22

  —

  15

  1

  3. Refusal of Certificate Entitlement

  —

  —

  —

  —

  4. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Temporary purposes (not husbands or wives or fiances or fiancees)

  3

  —

  —

  —

  5. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Employment, Business or Independent Means (not husbands, wives, fiances or fiancees)

  —

  —

  2

  —

  6. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by Wives and Children, other dependent relatives and returning residents

  1

  —

  —

  —

  7. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by female fiancees

  —

  —

  —

  —

  8. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by husbands

  —

  —

  —

  —

  9. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by male fiances

  —

  —

  —

  —

  10. Variation of Landing Conditions (including curtailment of stay or duration or conditions of leave to remain given to persons previously exempted (S.14(2))

  1

  —

  —

  —

  11. Refusal to Vary Leave to Enter

  25

  —

  5

  6

  12. Decision to make Deportation Order

  —

  —

  —

  2

  13. Refusal to Revoke Deportation Order

  —

  —

  —

  —

  14. Giving of Removal Directions

  2

  —

  —

  —

  15. Destination Only Appeal

  1

  —

  2

  1

  Total

  55

  —

  27

  15

  All other countries

  Appeal categories

  Number of appeals referred

  Number allowed

  Number dismissed

  Number withdrawn

  1 January 1986℃31 December 1986

  1. Exclusion—Appeal at Port

  69

  5

  41

  26

  2. Exclusion—External Appeals

  611

  37

  434

  61

  3. Refusal of Certificate of Entitlement

  52

  1

  8

  9

  4. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Temporary purposes (not husbands or wives or fiances or fiancees)

  1,246

  248

  594

  183

  5. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Employment, Business or Independent Means (not husbands, wives, fiances or fiancees)

  76

  6

  34

  24

  6. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by Wives and Children, other dependant relatives and returning residents

  536

  73

  227

  120

  7. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by female fiancees

  22

  1

  3

  8

  8. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by husbands

  25

  3

  13

  4

  9. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by male fiances

  26

  3

  13

  5

  10. Variation of Landing Conditions (including curtailment of stay or duration or conditions of leave to remain given to persons previously exempted (S.14(2))

  286

  12

  87

  95

  11. Refusal to Vary Leave to Enter

  3,229

  189

  1,341

  1,289

  12. Decision to make Deportation Order

  262

  23

  187

  78

  13. Refusal to Revoke Deportation Order

  47

  2

  28

  3

  14. Giving of Removal Directions

  36

  —

  26

  5

  15. Destination Only Appeal

  73

  —

  52

  19

  Total

  6,596

  603

  13,088

  1,929

  1 January 1987–31 March 1987

  1. Exclusion—Appeal at Port

  11

  1

  13

  11

  2. Exclusion—External Appeals

  206

  11

  125

  21

  3. Refusal of Certificate Entitlement

  7

  —

  3

  2

  516 517

  Appeal categories

  Number of appeals referred

  Number allowed

  Number dismissed

  Number withdrawn

  4. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Temporary purposes (not husbands or wives or fiances or fiancees)

  354

  76

  207

  46

  5. Refusal of Entry Clearance for Employment, Business or Independent Means (not husbands, wives, fiances or fiancees)

  13

  2

  6

  3

  6. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by Wives and Children, other dependant relatives and returning residents

  69

  16

  52

  21

  7. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by female fiancees

  5

  2

  15

  2

  8. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by husbands

  8

  —

  1

  2

  9. Refusal of Entry Clearance requested by male fiances

  3

  —

  5

  10. Variation of Landing Conditions (including curtailment of stay or duration or conditions of leave to remain given to persons previously exempted (S.14(2))

  54

  3

  10

  21

  11. Refusal to Vary Leave to Enter

  514

  46

  288

  285

  12. Decision to make Deportation Order

  39

  10

  33

  13

  13. Refusal to Revoke Deportation Order

  11

  2

  2

  1

  14. Giving of Removal Directions

  14

  —

  13

  5

  15. Destination Only Appeal

  2

  —

  2

  1

  Total

  1,310

  169

  2775

  434

  1 There were, in addition, 5 cases where the Immigration Adjudicators had no jurisdiction to hear the appeals.

  2 There was, in addition, 1 case where the Immigration Adjudicators had no jurisdiction to hear the appeal.

ENERGY

  Magnox Reactors
  Mr. Flynn
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy whether any British electricity board magnox reactors have ever been modified to optimise military grade plutonium production.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  I refer the hon. Member to the answer given by my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, Central (Mr. Moore) on 24 February 1982 at column 397.

  Mr. Thomas
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy (1) if he will update to 31 March 1987 the information on thermal energy generated and spent fuel discharged by each of the Central Electricity Generating Board magnox reactors given in reply to the hon. Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy on 26 June 1987, Official Report, column 269;

  (2) if he will update to 31 March the information on the allocation of plutonium produced in the Central Electricity Generating Board and South of Scotland Electricity Board magnox reactors given in reply to the hon. Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy on 21 July 1986, Official Report, columns 10–11.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  [pursuant to his reply, 2 July 1987, c. 128]: The information is as follows:

  Station

  Thermal output

  Fuel discharged

  (Gwh)

  (tonnes u)

  Bradwell

  6,624

  60

  Berkeley

  4,264

  34

  Hinkley Point A

  14,487

  123

  Trawsfynydd

  12,453

  90

  Dungeness A

  9,207

  68

  Sizewell

  8,825

  71

  Oldbury

  11,048

  97

  Wylfa

  21,948

  47

  518

  Allocation or use of plutonium produced in CEGB or SSEB Magnox reactors (position at 31 March 1987)

  Tonnes (to nearest half tonne)

  Plutonium in irradiated fuel

  (a)

  estimated in fuel in CEGB/SSEB Magnox reactors

  10·0

  (b)

  estimated plutonium in fuel discharged from CEGB/SSEB Magnox reactors, but not yet processed

  4·0

  Separated plutonium

  (c)

  in stock at British Nuclear Fuels plc as oxide

  24·5

  (d)

  in process at British Nuclear Fuels in intermediate other forms (eg nitrate)

  0·5

  (e)

  sold or leased to UKAEA for fast reactor R & D since 1969

  5·5

  (f)

  exported for civil purposes to countries other than the United States

  0·5

  45·0

  Sub-total

  (g)

  Balance (see note (g) below)

  Notes:

  (a) These figures are derived from the known tonnage of fuel elements and heir estimated overall average irradiation and cannot be accurately calculated.

  (b) As for (a) About 20 per cent, of amount shown was held by BNFL.

  (c) and (d) This material is held at Sellafied on behalf of CEGB and SSEB.

  (e) About 20 per cent, of amount shown was held by BNFL.

  (g) The balance of plutonium produced in the boards Magnox reactors was consigned to the United States before 1971 under the United States/United Kingdom defence agreement and as stated by the Prime Minister on 21 April 1964 was used by the United States for civil purposes. Because of the barter arrangements under which plutonium was consigned it would not be in the national interest to publish the figure.

  Plutonium
  Mr. Flynn
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy (1) whether he has any information subsequent to the

  519
  statement by the then Prime Minister, Sir Alec Douglas-Home, on 2 April 1964, concerning the specific use to which the electricity board magnox plutonium consigned to the United States has been put since this date; and whether there are any plans for future export of electricity board plutonium to the United States of America;

  (2) whether all consignments of plutonium arising from British civil electricity board magnox reactors and exported to the United States of Ameria have been covered by bilateral peaceful end use restriction nuclear safeguards or International Atomic Energy Agency safeguards;

  (3) whether all exports of plutonium arising from British Nuclear Fuels Ltd., United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority, Central Electricity Generating Board or South of Scotland Electricity Board reactors exported to the United States since May 1979 have been covered by peaceful end use safeguards.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  I shall reply to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

  Mr. Mullin
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy if British Nuclear Fuels plc has physically separate stores for plutonium arising from: (a) Calder hall and Chapelcross magnox reactors, (b) Central Electricity Generating Board magnox reactors and (c) South of Scotland Electricity Board magnox reactors after its processing through the Windscale B205 reprocessing plant at Sellafield: and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  Calder hall and Chapelcross material is segregated from safeguarded stocks.

  Mr. Mullin
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy what specific safeguarding arrangements apply to plutonium stored at Sellafield.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  All civil plutonium stored at Sellafield is under Euratom safeguards. The main elements of the safeguards inspection arrangements for Sellafield agreed with Euratom were given by my right hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr. Walker) in reply to a question from my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Mr. Maclean) on 4 June 1986 at columns 594–95.

  Mr. Morley
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy when he expects to make an announcement on the publication of plutonium production figures.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  I refer the hon. Member to the answers given to the hon. Member for Meirionydd Nant Conwy (Mr. Thomas) on 22 April, at column 547, and 5 May, at column 304. Information relating to the allocation of plutonium from generating board reactors for 1986–87 is given in an answer today to the hon. Member for Meirionydd Nant Conwy.

  Sellafield (Inspections)
  Mr. Flynn
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy on how many occasions, in what numbers, and for what length of time Euratom safeguards inspectors have been present at British Nuclear Fuels plc Sellafield nuclear site since March 1986; and whether Euratom inspectors have access to the B205 reprocessing plant at the Windscale works, Sellafield.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  As stated in replies to questions from my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The 520
  Border (Mr. Maclean) on 4 June 1986, at columns 594–95, and from my hon. Friend the Member for Langbaurgh (Mr. Holt) on 30 January 1987, at column 404, Euratom inspectors have access to all civil material at Sellafield on a continuing basis. On average, three Euratom inspectors attend inspections.

  British Coal Corporation
  Mr. Illsley
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy whether there are any plans to sell in part or in whole the British Coal Corporation workshops.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  I am not aware of any plans.

  Sullom Voe
  Mr. Wallace
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy whether he intends to meet members of Shetland Islands council to discuss the licence of the Sullom Voe oil terminal; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Peter Morrison
  No.

  Mr. Wallace
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy whether he has any plans to meet members of the Sullom Voe Association to discuss the operation of the oil terminal.

  Mr. Peter Morrison
  I have no such plans at present.

  Mr. Wallace
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy what, over the last 12 months, has been the average current daily oil throughput of the Sullom Voe oil terminal.

  Mr. Peter Morrison
  The latest published figure is for 1986 when the terminal received 54·8 million tonnes of crude oil, an average of 150,137 tonnes per day.

  Mr. Wallace
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy what is the expected throughput of oil of the Sullom Voe oil terminal from now to 31 December 1999.

  Mr. Peter Morrison
  The throughput is declining; 1986 was probably the peak year, but the outturn to 1999 will depend on the performance of those fields currently feeding the terminal, existing discoveries which may be connected, and new discoveries which may be made and tied into the Brent and Ninian pipeline systems in the interim.

  Mr. Wallace
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy when he last discussed the operation of the Sullom Voe oil terminal with the participants.

  Mr. Peter Morrison
  I have had no such discussion, but my officials are in frequent touch both with BP, which operates the Ninian pipeline system and also operates the Sullom Voe terminal on behalf of the Ninian and Brent pipeline groups, and with Shell/Esso which operates the Brent pipeline system.

  Coal Industry
  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy how many manshifts were worked by persons on British Coal Corporation colliery books in 1986–87.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  A total of 26,407 deep-mined revenue manshifts were worked during 1986–87.

  Nuclear Power
  Mr. Hoyle
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy what is the precise nature of the programme of further work that

  521
  the Nuclear Installations Inspectorate has requested the Central Electricity Generating Board to carry out at the Bradwell nuclear power station; how long this programme of work will take; which other magnox stations are having long-term safety reviews; and when they will be complete.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  The Nuclear Installations Inspectorate's requirements including time scales for further work are set out in its report, a copy of which is in the Library of the House. Completion is a matter for the Central Electricity Generating Board.

  The Nuclear Installations Inspectorate has asked for long-term safety reviews to be carried out for each magnox station and will be pressing the licensees concerned to keep to agreed timetables.

  Mr. Hoyle
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy why the International Atomic Energy Agency has not been asked to inspect the British magnox reactors; whether any of the Central Electricity Generating Board staff who produced the long-term safety review of Bradwell nuclear power station ever worked at Bradwell; and whether any staff from the Nuclear Installations Inspectorate visited Bradwell in the course of assessing the Central Electricity Generating Board's long-term safety review.

  Mr. Hardy
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy if, in the light of the Nuclear Installations Inspectorate's report on the Bradwell power station, the International Atomic Energy Agency will now be invited to survey an older magnox station in fulfilment of the United Kingdom's obligations to co-operate internationally on such matters; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  I am considering how the United Kingdom might participate in the agency's programme of reviews of operational safety. The deployment of staff by the Central Electricity Generating Board and the Nuclear Installations Inspectorate is a matter for those organisations, but naturally Nuclear Institutions Inspectorate review team staff visited Bradwell.

  Mr. Mullin
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy what information he has regarding disquiet expressed by the management of the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority Dounreay nuclear establishment over the mislabelling of consignments of fast reactor fuel pins by British Nuclear Fuels plc staff at Sellafield and sent to Dounreay for reprocessing.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  No consignments of fuel pins have been sent from Sellafield to Dounreay for reprocessing. The hon. Member may have in mind shipments of residues containing plutonium from Sellafield to Dounreay and I refer him to the answer given in the other place by Lord Gray of Contin in response to a question from Lord Brockway on 17 June 1986, at column 727.

  Mr. Mullin
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy if he will list each occasion since April on which a Minister in his Department has made a statement encouraging members of the public to visit British Nuclear Fuels plc's Sellafield nuclear complex.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  My colleagues and I are always happy to encourage the public to visit the Sellafield site and exhibition centre, as my hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury (Mr. Goodlad) did in the Second Standing Committee on Statutory Instruments, etc., on 5 May 1987, at column 6.
  522
  Mr. Mullin
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy if he will publish all evidence or papers submitted by his Department to the Radioactive Waste Management Advisory Committee; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  I shall reply to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

  Mr. Morley
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy what steps he has taken to satisfy himself' that the Central Electricity Generating Board has published all relevant information about construction difficulties at the Heysham 2 nuclear power station; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  General information about the progress of construction at the station is a matter for the CEGB.

  Allegations about standards of workmanship and working practices at Heysham 2 made by former construction workers at the site have been thoroughly investigated by the independent Nuclear Installations Inspectorate. The NII confirms that none of the allegations provides a cause for concern about the safety of Heysham 2. The NII's report will he published in due course.

  Mr. Chris Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy (1) if he will publish a weekly input/output from 1 January of spent magnox fuel arising from civil magnox reactors, together with the arisings of resulting depleted uranium and plutonium stocks for the throughput at the Windscale B205 reprocessing plant at British Nuclear Fuels plc, Sellafield;

  (2) why he will not publish input/output details of spent magnox reactor fuel and depleted uranium/plutonium stocks at Sellafield.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  I shall reply to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

  Mr. Mullin
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy what is the latest information he has on the final estimated cost for the Sizewell B pressurised water reactor.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  I refer the hon. Member to the reply given by my hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury (Mr. Goodlad) to the right hon. Member for Salford, East (Mr. Orme) on 27 April at column 16.

  Mr. Thomas
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy what information he has about progress by British Nuclear Fuels Ltd. in carrying out safety improvements at Sellafield stipulated in the Nuclear Installations Inspectorate's audit reports.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: I have not yet received the progress report.

  Hospitality
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy how much has been spent by his Department on official hospitality in each of the last two financial years.

  Mr. Parkinson
  My Department spent the following amounts on official hospitality in the last two financial years:

  £'000

  1985–86

  39·9

  1986–87

  45·4

  Research and Development
  Mr. Ieuan Wyn Jones
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy, pursuant to the reply to the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Wallace), of 13 July, Official Report, column 341, if he will (a) list all the research and development projects mentioned in his answer and (b) give details of those projects specifically carried out in the United Kingdom.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  Details of the United Kingdom's participation in the European fast reactor R and D collaboration are a matter for the UKAEA. I shall ask the chairman to write to the hon. Member.

  Oil and Gas Technology
  Mr. Teddy Taylor
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy what is the current amount of the budget available to the Offshore Supplies Office for the promotion abroad of British expertise in oil and gas technology; in which countries these promotions are made; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Peter Morrison
  During 1987–88, the Offshore Supplies Office budget for overseas promotion of the British offshore supplies industry is £443,000. This is more than 80 per cent. of OSO's total promotional budget. The office will take part in major industry events in Angola, Canada, China, Norway, the USA, and the USSR.

  I intend to play the fullest role in supporting the export drive of British offshore supply companies through my overseas visits and through my meetings with all sectors of the oil and gas industry.

  British Coal (Management Consultancy Contracts)
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy what information he has about management consultancy contracts awarded by British Coal in each of the last three years.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  This is a matter for the British Coal Corporation.

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy what is the estimated expenditure of his Department in the current year on management and computer consultancy.

  Mr. Parkinson
  My Department has made provision for an estimated expenditure of £270,000 on management and computer consultancies in the current financial year.

  Electricity and Telephone Cables
  Mr. Yeo
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy how many schemes have been implemented to replace overhead electricity and telephone cables with underground cables in conservation areas and areas of outstanding natural beauty.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  This information is not readily available in respect of electricity cables and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Telephone cables are a matter for my right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.

  Magnox Reprocessing Plant
  Mr. Flynn
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy if he will publish a full input/output table of spent nuclear fuel and uranium and plutonium arising from the operation of the B205 magnox reprocessing plant since 1 January 1987.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  I refer the hon. Member to the answer I have given today to the hon. Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy (Mr. Thomas).

  Spent Nuclear Fuel
  Mr. Thomas
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy if he will publish a table of the annual amount of spent nuclear fuel dispatches, by date and amount, for each year since 1979, including the first half of 1987 for the Trawsfynydd magnox nuclear station; and which local emergency planning authorities in Wales are given prior notice of spent fuel consignments transported through their area of responsibility from both the Trawsfynydd and Wylfa nuclear plants.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  [pursuant to his reply, 10 July 1987, c. 288–89]: The quantity of spent fuel dispatched is as follows:

  Financial year

  Tonnes

  1979–80

  76

  1980–81

  64

  1981–82

  132

  1982–83

  118

  1983–84

  144

  1984–85

  118

  1985–86

  108

  1986–87

  108

  Local emergency planning authorities are not specifically notified of movements of spent nuclear fuels through their areas as national procedures exist to respond to any transport radiological emergencies which might arise. Details of these procedures have been circulated by the Home Office to all chief constables, chief fire officers and chief executives of local authorities.

  Ms. Ruddock
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy what is Her Majesty's Government's policy on returning nuclear waste arising in low, intermediate and high level categories from the reprocessing of (a) imported thermal oxide fuel and (b) imported magnox fuel to each country of origin; what are the volumes involved in each waste category for contracts for spent nuclear fuel imported for reprocessing so far signed; and if he will make a statement on the impact on Nirex of managing spent nuclear fuel imported for reprocessing from other countries.

  Mr. Michael Spicer
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: I refer the hon. Member to the reply given by my hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury (Mr. Goodlad) to the hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Mr. Mitchell) on 2 May 1987 at columns 502–3.

  I am asking the chairman of BNFL to write to the hon. Member with the detailed figures requested.

  ESCOM (South Africa)
  Mr. Boateng
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy whether there has been any withdrawal of uranium of South African or Namibian origin from international safeguards for national security reasons (a) before May 1979 and (b) since May 1979.
  525
  Mr. Michael Spicer
  [pursuant to his reply, 17 July 1987, c. 647–48]: I am not able to answer for previous Administrations. There have been withdrawals of uranium from safeguards since 1979. It is possible that some of this material was of South African origin.

  Offshore Technology Board
  Mr. Corbett
  asked the Secretary of State for Energy whether he will list the members of the Offshore Technology Board, giving their occupations and working backgrounds, their remuneration, and an estimate of how many hours a year each spends, by name, on the board's behalf.

  Mr. Peter Morrison
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: The current membership of the Offshore Energy Technology Board is:

  Chairman:

  Hon. Peter Morrison MP, Minister of State, Department of Energy

  Members:

  George C. Band, Director-General, UKOOA

  William E. Bell, Chairman, Enterprise Oil plc

  Kelvin A. Bray OBE, Managing Director, Ruston Gas Turbines Ltd.

  Carl J. Burnett Jnr., Chairman and President, Mobil North Sea Ltd.

  Basil Butler, Managing Director, The British Petroleum Company plc

  Ron H. Campbell, Managing Director, Babcock Power Ltd.

  J. E. d'Ancona, Director General, OSO

  Professor Sir Sam Edwards FRS, Chief Scientific Adviser, Department of Energy

  Peter Everett, Managing Director, Shell UK Exploration and Production

  Allan Gormly, Director, Trafalgar House plc

  John M. Houlder CBE, Chairman, Houlder Offshore

  Dr. Harold W. D. Hughes, Director and General Manager, Exploration Companies, British Gas plc

  Roger Kingdom, Chief Executive, Davy Corporation

  Dick Morris, Chairman, Brown and Root Vickers Technology Ltd.

  Professor Tom Patten CBE

  Keith H. Taylor, Managing Director, Esso UK plc

  David B. Walker, Chief Executive, Britoil

  P. J. Walmsley, Head Petroleum Engineering Division, Department of Energy

  Ian C. Wood CBE, Chairman, John Wood Group plc

  Secretary:

  C. P. Carter, Director Research and Development, OSO

  As membership of the board, which meets three or four times per year, is unpaid, my Department does not keep a record of the time spent by each member on the board's business.

  Interviews (Tape Recording)
  Mr. Robert B. Jones
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if, following his meeting with the Association of Chief Police Officers on 18 May, he will now publish a circular on the subject of the tape recording of interviews.

  Mr. Douglas Hogg
  Consultations about the circular are continuing. We shall issue a circular when consultations are complete.

  St. Luke with St. James, St. Helier
  Mr. Robert B. Jones
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he expects to complete the procedures necessary for the appointment of a new incumbent for the parishes of St. Luke with St. James. St. Helier.

  Mr. Hurd
  It is not the normal practice to answer questions about appointments to livings in Jersey within the gift of Her Majesty the Queen.

  Police Assault Incident (Holloway)
  Mr. Chris Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will indicate the numbers of police officers, by rank and department, who were assigned to investigate the assault in August 1983 of five youngsters in George's road, Holloway, at each stage of the three investigations into the incident; and what were the dates on which their reports were submitted and to whom.

  Mr. Douglas Hogg
  The first investigation was conducted by a detective chief inspector who reported on 16 March 1984. The second was conducted by a detective chief inspector who reported on 24 August 1984. The third was conducted by a detective chief superintendent who reported on 12 February and 23 April 1985. Each of these officers was attached to the Metropolitan police complaints investigation bureau and was assisted by a detective sergeant throughout his investigation and by other officers from time to time as the need arose. Their reports were submitted to the commander of the complaints investigation bureau. In February 1986, the Commisioner of Police of the Metropolis instituted a further review of the case. This was led by a deputy assistant commissioner who was assisted by a team of officers and civilian staff. The size of this team varied in accordance with particular requirements, but at one time included over 20 individuals.

  Firearms
  Mr. Lawrence
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many shotguns were reported stolen in each of the past five years; how many have been recovered; and how many were later found to have been used to commit a criminal offence.

  Mr. John Patten
  The available information relates to the number of notifiable offences of burglary and theft recorded by the police in which shotguns were reported to have been the principal weapon stolen; more than one firearm may have been stolen in each offence. The figures for 1975 to 1985 are published in table 3.11 of "Criminal Statistics, England and Wales, 1985" (Cm. 10), and in 1986 there were 804 such offences. Chief officers of police do not record the numbers of stolen firearms recovered or of those subsequently found to have been used in crime.

  Parole
  Mr. Lawrence
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will either (a) use his powers of executive release or (b) take new powers so that an exemption can be made for those convicted of crimes of violence from any order he may make resulting in the premature release of prisoners.
  527
  Mr. Hurd
  I have no present plans to exercise the power of executive release. My decision to provide for increased remission for good conduct and industry in the case of prisoners serving 12 months or less will not benefit those who have committed crimes of violence serious enough to merit a sentence of more than 12 months. I shall consider my hon. and learned Friend's proposal that we should amend the Prison Act to enable different periods of remission for good conduct and industry according to offence, a matter which could be referred to the parole review.

  Crime Statistics
  Mr. Nicholas Bennett
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what changes have been made in the presentation of homicide and manslaughter statistics by his Department since 1957.

  Mr. John Patten
  I shall write to my hon. Friend.

  Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what is the average cost of apprehending, remanding and trying a person believed guilty of a criminal act; and what is the annual cost of keeping such a person in prison.

  Mr. John Patten
  The available estimated costs per person are Crown Prosecution Service £100 in 1987–88; Crown court trials £860 in 1986–87; legal aid for Crown court cases £327 and for magistrates' courts cases £213 in 1986–87. Where employed in 1986–87, duty solicitors cost £29, 24-hour duty solicitors £84 and "green form" assistance £39 per defendant. Costs of imprisonment in 1985–86 were £12,792 per prisoner per year in all establishments and £11,700 per prisoner per year in remand centres and local prisons. I regret that costs per person to the police and costs per defendant in magistrates' courts are not available.

  Isle of Wight
  Mr. Barry Field
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he expects the Parliamentary Boundary Commission to report on the Isle of Wight.

  Mr. Douglas Hogg
  The Parliamentary Boundary Commission is due to report on all the constituencies in England, including the Isle of Wight, between 1993 and 1998.

  Magistrates' Courts (Adjournments)
  Mr. Nicholas Bennett
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what is the annual number of adjournments of cases for sentence in magistrates' courts in England and Wales solely because of the absence of a driver's licence printout from the Swansea driver and vehicle licensing centre; what plans he has to improve the service to the courts and to reduce costs; and what is the estimated cost of such adjournments.

  Mr. John Patten
  The information requested is not available centrally and could not be obtained without disproportionate cost. I understand that inquiries made of DVLC are ordinarily dealt with promptly, but if my hon. Friend has any particular difficulty in mind I should be very ready to arrange for it to be considered further.

  Mr. Antonas Gecas
  Mr. Janner
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will investigate further allegations against Antonas Gecas contained in the new Scottish television film about him and other suspected war criminals living in the United Kingdom;

  (2) if he will initiate investigations into new information provided to him concerning alleged war criminals living in the United Kingdom;

  (3) whether he will now take action concerning the further allegations against Antonas Gecas and other suspected war criminals living in the United Kingdom.

  Mr. Hurd
  The allegations made in the Scottish Television programme are being studied together with the material supplied to us on 17 July by the Simon Wiesenthal Centre.

  Criminal Proceedings
  Mr. McCrindle
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what representations he has received concerning criminal proceedings pursued by the police against a violent party, if the victim is reluctant to pursue the matter; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Douglas Hogg
  We cannot trace the receipt of any such representations. The investigation of offences and decisions on whether to initiate a prosecution are operational matters for chief officers of police.

  Metropolitan Police
  Mr. Soley
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what is the policy of the Metropolitan police on breathalysing officers involved in accidents when driving police vehicles.

  Mr. Douglas Hogg
  I am informed by the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis that police officers who are involved in vehicle accidents, whether on or off duty, are required to undergo a breath test whenever there is reason to believe that they have consumed alcohol prior to the accident.

  Mr. Soley
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many Metropolitan police officers were breathalysed while on duty in 1986; and in how many cases the test was positive.

  Mr. Douglas Hogg
  I am informed by the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis that details of the number of breath tests administered to police officers and the results are not recorded separately. However, in 1982 two Metropolitan police officers were convicted for drink-drive offences committed while on duty.

  Mr. Soley
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether any Metropolitan police officers were (a) dismissed or (b) disciplined for drinking while on duty in 1986.

  Mr. Douglas Hogg
  In disciplinary proceedings completed in 1986, two officers were found guilty of the police discipline code offence of drinking on duty. One who was at the same time found guilty of criminal conduct, in that he had been convicted by a court of a drink-driving offence, was required to resign from the force as an alternative to dismissal. The other was awarded a lesser penalty.

  Police Vehicles (Accident Statistics)
  Mr. Soley
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many (a) police officers and (b) members of the public were killed in accidents involving police vehicles in 1986 for England and Wales.

  Mr. Douglas Hogg
  The information requested is not currently available centrally. However, arrangements have been made for police forces to collect information on accidents involving police vehicles which cause death or serious injury from 1 January this year. The information will be collected centrally through annual returns from forces beginning early in 1988.

  Criminal Injuries Compensation Board
  Mr. Ground
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) how many cases were awaiting resolution by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board at the end of each month since October 1986;

  (2) how many cases were resolved by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board during each month since October 1986;

  (3) how many staff were employed by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board at the end of each month since October 1986.

  Mr. John Patten
  The information requested is given in the table.

  Month

  Cases awaiting resolution at the end of each month

  Cases resolved during each month

  Staff in post (part-time staff being each counted as one half)

  October 1986

  60,600

  2,815

  211·5

  November 1986

  59,800

  3,882

  208·5

  December 1986

  61,400

  2,030

  214·5

  January 1987

  62,100

  2,365

  212·5

  February 1987

  63,100

  2,432

  212·5

  March 1987

  64,200

  2,854

  214·5

  April 1987

  66,000

  1,949

  215·5

  May 1987

  67,300

  1,713

  217·5

  June 1987

  68,600

  2,023

  218·5

  Licensing Hours
  Mr. McCrindle
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will estimate the effect of liberalising public house opening hours in England and Wales will have on the price of alcohol sold in those establishments; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Douglas Hogg
  I am not aware of any evidence to suggest that the introduction of flexible licensing hours will have a direct effect on the price of alcoholic drinks.

  Crime Prevention Roadshow
  Mr. Fearn
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what towns and cities the crime prevention roadshow will visit when it tours the United Kingdom.

  Mr. John Patten
  I understand that visits to Merseyside, London, Cardiff and Coventry have been confirmed; a suitable place is still being sought in the north-east. The crime prevention roadshow is being organised by the local authority associations and the Association of Chief Police Officers, with the full support of the Government.

  Detention Centre, Usk
  Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what is the total capacity of the senior detention centre at Usk in Glamorgan; how many persons are currently imprisoned there; what is the capacity of the youth custody centre; and how many are currently held there.

  Mr. John Patten
  The certified normal accommodation (CNA) of the senior detention centre at Usk is 120. On 22 July 1987, 71 young offenders were detained there. The CNA of the youth custody centre at Usk is 120. On 22 July 1987, 104 young offenders were detained there.

  Hospitality
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much has been spent by his Department on official hospitality in each of the last two financial years.

  Mr. Hurd
  The information requested is as follows:

  £

  1985–86

  29,618

  1986–87

  45,456

  Immigration
  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what were the dates and places since 1 March 1986 where (a) major joint immigration-police operations were carried out in the whole of the United Kingdom and (b) joint operations were carried out in the Metropolitan police area; how many police officers and immigration officers, and of what rank, were involved for each operation; how many people, and of what nationalities, were (a) interviewed and (b) detained in each operation. for how long and where; and with regard to what breaches of immigration law these people were interviewed and charged.

  Mr. Renton
  There have been five major joint immigration-police operations since 1 March 1986, all in the Metropolitan police area. They are as follows:

  (1) At British Telecom, 81 Newgate Street, London. ECI, on 14 March 1986.

  The number and ranks of police and immigration officers who visited the British Telecom building were:

  Police

  1 superintendent

  1 inspector

  1 sergeant

  19 constables

  Immigration Service

  1 deputy chief inspector

  1 inspector

  2 chief immigration officers

  10 immigration officers

  One further chief immigration officer and five further immigration officers were subsequently used to pursue inquiries in relation to those arrested.

  A total of 24 people were interviewed. Nineteen people were arrested with the following results:

  Nine were judged to be illegal entrants (three Ghanaians, three Portuguese, two Nigerians and one Colombian), one (a Ghanaian) was charged as an overstayer, seven were charged with working in breach of

  531
  conditions (five Nigerians, one Ghanaian and one Portuguese), and two (both Ghanaians) were formerly cautioned for working in breach of conditions. Of the other five who were not arrested, one, a Nigerian, was an overstayer who was served with a notice of intention that he should be deported and with a restriction order, and four (two Ghanaians and two Nigerians) were found not to be in breach of the immigration laws.

  Five of the illegal entrants detected at the British Telecom building were taken initially to Wood street police station but subsequently transferred to Latchmere house remand centre, pending removal from the United Kingdom. In the other cases the period spent in custody in Wood street police station were:

  Number

  Four hours or less

  4

  Over four hours but under six hours

  5

  Over six hours but under nine hours

  2

  Over nine hours but under 14 hours

  3

  (2) At J. Paxton Ltd., South road, Wimbledon, on 6 June 1986. The available information is as follows:

  The numbers and ranks of police and immigration officers who visited the factory were:

  Police

  1 chief superintendent

  1 chief inspector

  13 constables

  Immigration service

  1 deputy chief inspector

  1 chief immigration officer

  6 immigration officers

  Thirteen people were arrested and taken to Wimbledon police station with the following results:

  Nine were judged to be illegal entrants (all Ghanaians).One was charged with working in breach of his conditions. One cautioned for working in breach of conditions. One was found to be the subject of a deportation order. One released without charge. One further person was interviewed later at his home as a result of the operation and he was also found to be an illegal entrant.

  (3) At the Celostyle factory, Dalston, London E8, on 11 June 1986. The available information is as follows:

  The number and ranks of police and immigration officers who visited the factory were as follows:

  Police

  1 superintendent

  2 inspectors

  6 constables

  Immigration service

  1 deputy chief inspector

  1 chief immigration officer

  6 immigration officers

  Thirty-nine people were interviewed (38 Turkish and one Yugoslav). Eleven people were arrested and taken to City road police station with the following results:

  Six (all Turkish) were found to be illegal entrants. Two (one Turkish and one Yugoslav) were cautioned for working in breach of conditions. One (Turkish) was found to be a seaman deserter. One (Turkish) was charged as an overstayer. One (Turkish) was found to be a time-barred overstayer.

  A further two people (both Turkish) came forward voluntarily after the operation. One was found to be an illegal entrant and one an overstayer who was not arrested.
  532
  Two of the illegal entrants were detained. The seaman deserter was also detained. The total periods spent in detention were three and four days for the illegal entrants and eight days for the seaman deserter.

  In the other cases the period spent in custody, all at city road police station, were:

  four hours or less—two

  over four hours but under six hours— one

  over six hours but under nine hours—six

  (4) At the Intercontinental hotel, Hyde Park corner, London, W1, on 20 June 1986.

  The available information is as follows:

  The numbers and ranks of police and immigration officers who visited the hotel were:

  Police

  1 chief superintendent

  1 sergeant

  13 constables

  Immigration Service

  1 deputy chief inspector

  1 inspector

  1 chief immigration officer

  7 immigration officers

  A total of 27 people were interviewed (12 Ghanaians, nine Nigerians, two Ugandans, one Sri Lankan, one Bangladeshi, one French and one British). Seventeen people were arrested and taken to Vine street police station with the following results:

  Seven were judged to be illegal entrants (three Ghanaians and four Nigerians); Four were charged with working in breach of conditions (two Ghanaians and two Nigerians); three were formally cautioned for working in breach of conditions (two Ghanaians and one Nigerian); and three were found not to be in breach of the immigration laws (one British citizen, one Ghanaian and one Nigerian).

  The seven illegal entrants who had been detected at the hotel, and who were taken initially to the police station, were all transferred to the Harmondsworth detention centre during the evening of 20 June. Three remained there until their removal or voluntary departure from the United Kingdom, whilst the other four were transferred to Latchmere house remand centre on 22 June (in three cases transfer was via the Queens building detention). The total periods spent in detention in these cases were: 4, 8, 11, 12, 19, 26 and 32 days, respectively.

  In the other cases the periods spent in custody, all at Vine street police station, were:

  Four hours or less—one

  Over four but under six hours—two

  Over six but under nine hours—two

  Over nine but under 15 hours—five

  (5) At Abell house and Cleland house, John Islip street, London, SW1, on 12 December 1986.

  The available information is as follows:

  The numbers and ranks of police and immigration officers who visited Abell and Cleland house were as follows:

  Police

  1 chief superintendent

  1 chief inspector

  14 constables

  Immigration Service

  1 deputy chief inspector

  1 inspector

  3 chief immigration officers

  9 immigration officers

  1 administrative officer

  533
  A total of 26 people employed by a contract cleaning company were interviewed, 25 Ghanaians and one Nigerian. Of these 14 were arrested and taken to Rochester row police station with the following results:

  Five (including the one Nigerian) were charged with working in breach of conditions; three were judged to be illegal entrants; three were charged with overstaying; two were overstayers who were given notice of intention to deport them; and one, whose status was in doubt, was bailed to reappear the next day but failed to do so.

  Following initial custody at Rochester row police station two of these people were transferred to Harmondsworth detention centre the following day, and two others to Latchmere house remand centre on 15 December, pending removal from the United Kingdom. The periods spent in detention in these cases were 1½, 14, 19 and 33 days.

  In the other cases in which people were arrested the periods spent in custody, all at Rochester row police station, were:

  Four hours or less—one

  Over four but under six hours—three

  Over six but under nine hours—two

  Over nine but under 24 hours—four

  Of the 12 people who were dealt with at their place of work two were judged to be illegal entrants (they were released temporarily pending removal from the United Kingdom); two were found to have been refused leave to enter and to be on temporary admission pending further

  Husbands, wives and fiance(e)s in the Indian sub-continent refused entry clearance to the United Kingdom.

  Number of persons or percentages1

  Husbands

  Fiances

  Wives

  Fiancees

  1986

  1987 1st quarter

  1986

  1987 1st quarter

  1986

  1987 1st quarter

  1986

  1987 1st quarter

  Number refused initially because primary purpose of the marriage was to obtain admission to United Kingdom:

  Solely for this reason

  430

  160

  840

  240

  10

  4—

  10

  4—

  Partly for this reason

  20

  20

  120

  50

  3—

  3—

  10

  10

  Primary purpose refusals 2 as a percentage of all decisions:

  Solely on primary purpose grounds

  35

  ¨

  45

  ¨

  4—

  ¨

  5

  ¨

  Partly on primary purpose grounds

  2

  ¨

  7

  ¨

  3—

  ¨

  5

  ¨

  Primary purpose refusals as a percentage of all refusals2:

  Solely on primary purpose grounds

  94

  ¨

  83

  ¨

  2

  ¨

  15

  ¨

  Partly on primary purpose grounds

  4

  ¨

  13

  ¨

  —

  ¨

  17

  ¨

  1 Refusal rate not calculated for a period of less than 12 months.

  2 After taking account of successful appeals.

  3 —nil.

  4 5 or fewer/½ per cent, or less.

  ¨ not available.

  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many people were waiting in each of the four queues for entry clearance at each post in the Indian sub-continent on 31 March.
  534
  consideration of their cases; one was an overstayer. time-barred from prosecution, whose case merited further consideration; four were found to have no restrictions on their taking of employment in the United Kingdom; three were asked to produce evidence of their status, which could not be determined at the time. These inquiries are continuing.

  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many applications from (a) husbands, (b) fiances, (c) wives and (d) fiancees have been (i) decided, (ii) granted and (iii) refused at each post in the Indian sub-continent for each quarter since January 1986; and how many such applications in each category and for each quarter were refused (1) wholly and (2) partly because of the primary purpose rule; what was the refusal rate in each instance; and what percentage of those refusals was (x) wholly and (y) partly on primary purpose grounds.

  Mr. Renton
  Information for the whole of the Indian sub-continent on husbands and fiance(e)s granted or refused entry clearance to the United Kingdom is given in table 9 of the quarterly Home Office statistical bulletin "Control of Immigration: Statistics — First Quarter 1987" (issue 14/87). Corresponding information on wives in 1986 is given in table 8 of "Control of Immigration: Statistics, United Kingdom, 1986" (Cm.166). Information for the whole of the sub-continent on persons refused on primary purpose grounds is given in the following table. With regard to the other information requested, I will write to the hon. Member.

  Mr. Renton
  The information requested is given in the following table.
  535

  Applicants in the Indian sub-continent on 31 March 1987 awaiting their first interview for entry to the United Kingdom for settlement

  Number of Persons

  1Category

  Post

  Queue 1

  Queue 2

  Queue 3

  Queue 4

  Dhaka

  370

  1,500

  140

  2,800

  2 Bombay

  200

  480

  570

  100

  New Delhi

  70

  210

  530

  140

  Calcutta

  No queues

  Madras

  No queues

  Islamabad

  800

  820

  2,100

  770

  2Karachi

  70

  80

  60

  —

  TOTAL INDIAN SUB-CONTINENT

  1,500

  3,100

  3,400

  3,800

  1 Queue 1: Persons with a claim to the right to abode; dependent relatives over 70 years old; special compassionate cases (first-time applicants).

  Queue 2: Spouses; children under 18 years old (first-time applicants).

  Queue 3: Fiance(e)s; other applicants for settlement (first-time applicants).

  Queue 4: Re-applicants.

  2 Data are estimates.

  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many people were waiting for special quota vouchers in (a) June 1987 and (b) December 1986; when those issued with vouchers on those dates had applied; when those now applying can expect to receive vouchers; and how many applicants there were for vouchers in 1986 and the first half of 1987.

  Mr. Renton
  The information which is currently available centrally is given in the following tables.

  Table 1—Persons applying for a special voucher for entry to the United Kingdom

  Number of persons

  Applications

  Country

  Newly received

  Awaiting decision at end of month

  1986

  1987 1st quarter

  December 1986

  March 1987

  India

  310

  70

  2,500

  2,300

  Kenya

  380

  100

  440

  470

  Tanzanian

  60

  10

  190

  190

  Malawi

  40

  10

  10

  30

  Zambia

  80

  40

  20

  10

  Elsewhere

  30

  1

  10

  1

  Total

  890

  240

  3,100

  3,000

  1 Five or fewer.

  Table 2— Waiting times for persons applying for a special voucher Months

  Waiting time to main interview for

  Country

  Persons interviewed at end of month

  Person applying at end of month

  December 1986

  March 1987

  March 1987

  India1

  95·0

  94·0

  about 36·0

  Kenya

  1·5

  1·5

  1·5

  Tanzania

  0·75

  1·0

  1·0

  Malawi

  0·5

  1·0

  1·0

  Zambia

  1·0

  1·0

  1·0

  1 Data relate to non-priority applicants. Priority applicants (i.e. widows with a child in the United Kingdom, heads of households aged 65 or over, and special compassionate cases) are interviewed usually within three months.

  Naturalisation
  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what percentage of applications for naturalisation were refused in 1986 and on what grounds.

  Mr. Renton
  Some 8·4 per cent. of naturalisation applications completed in 1986 were refused on the grounds that the Secretary of State was not satisfied that the applicant had met the statutory requirements and should be naturalised.

  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many applications for British citizenship under section 4(5) of the British Nationality Act 1981 have been (a) made, (b) granted and (c) refused; and how many of those granted have been on the grounds of service in the armed forces.

  Mr. Renton
  The position on 22 July was as follows: 529 applications under section 4(5) of the British Nationality Act 1981 have been received; 39 have been granted, of which 33 were from applicants who had served in the armed forces under the Government of Hong Kong in the second world war; and 481 have been refused.

  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what is his best estimate as to how many applications for (a) adult registration with entitlement, (b) naturalisation and (c) registration of minors his Department expects to (i) receive and (ii) grant in 1987–88.

  Mr. Renton
  Our budget estimate is that in 1987–88 we will receive 64,000 applications for registration from both adults and minors and 26,000 naturalisation applications; we estimate that we should issue some 40,000 certificates of registration and 20,500 certificates of naturalisation.

  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many applications for (a) adult registration with entitlement, (b) naturalisation and (c) registration of minors were (i) made and (ii) granted in each month from April 1985 to the nearest available date; and how many of the applications made (i) made and (ii) granted in (a) above were on the basis of (1) marriage to a British man and (2) on the basis of residence since before 1973.

  Mr. Renton
  The following is the information available for applications for British citizenship made under the British Nationality Act 1981 received in case-working groups in the nationality division and granted for each month from April 1985 to June 1987.

  British Nationality Act 1981: Applications Received

  Date

  Adult Registrations

  Minor Registrations

  Naturalisations

  1985

  April

  2,075

  985

  1,683

  May

  1,793

  1,008

  1,588

  June

  1,656

  805

  1,302

  July

  2,128

  995

  1,674

  August

  1,967

  902

  1,644

  September

  1,846

  821

  1,414

  October

  2,326

  983

  1,788

  November

  2,401

  1,047

  1,897

  December

  1,744

  809

  1,684

  1986

  January

  1,945

  1,008

  1,574

  February

  1,895

  795

  1,356

  537

  Date

  Adult Registrations

  Minor Registrations

  Naturalisations

  March

  1,692

  795

  1,272

  April

  1,766

  722

  1,315

  May

  3,988

  1,677

  3,263

  June

  2,156

  1,094

  1,854

  July

  2,600

  1,217

  2,169

  August

  1,819

  799

  1,299

  September

  1,595

  728

  1,066

  October

  2,470

  1,174

  1,622

  November

  2,147

  852

  1,407

  British Nationality Act 1981: Applications Granted

  Date

  Registrations—residence since before 1 January 1973

  Registrations—marriage

  Registrations—other adult entitlements

  Registrations—Minors

  Naturalisations

  1985

  April

  572

  586

  153

  682

  1,014

  May

  557

  398

  117

  575

  855

  June

  744

  501

  165

  529

  1,000

  July

  1,224

  649

  300

  998

  1,188

  August

  1,052

  558

  261

  757

  977

  September

  1,080

  643

  224

  756

  1,037

  October

  1,526

  950

  352

  1,082

  1,246

  November

  1,653

  1,210

  373

  1,276

  1,709

  December

  655

  489

  161

  639

  788

  1986

  January

  998

  564

  181

  760

  1,123

  February

  1,133

  680

  223

  920

  1,545

  March

  1,320

  968

  249

  1,123

  1,839

  April

  1,705

  971

  320

  1,378

  2,036

  May

  1,172

  736

  150

  867

  751

  June

  1,059

  635

  163

  820

  844

  July

  1,220

  693

  195

  787

  880

  August

  715

  455

  110

  560

  723

  September

  619

  386

  83

  587

  739

  October

  489

  298

  51

  304

  559

  November

  893

  411

  102

  576

  1,091

  December

  1,026

  413

  133

  606

  995

  1987

  January

  1,603

  610

  167

  866

  1,550

  February

  2,509

  763

  230

  1,243

  1,891

  March

  2,510

  921

  267

  1,364

  1,910

  April

  1,250

  555

  136

  532

  974

  May

  1,645

  628

  163

  666

  1,149

  June

  2,213

  715

  210

  845

  1,341

  Notes:

  (1) The figures for 1986 and 1987 are provisional.

  (2) The figures for applications received for adult registration include both entitlement and non-entitlement applications.

  (3) The figures for the registration of other adults relate to registration entitlements only in 1986 and 1987; those for 1985 include also some discretionary resumptions of citizenship following renunciation.

  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) what is his Department's best estimate of the time an applicant will have to wait if applying now for (a) registration and (b) naturalisation;

  (2) what is the average length of time taken to process applications for (a) registration and (b) naturalisation.

  Mr. Renton
  The average time taken to complete applications granted in June 1987 was six months for registration and 17 months for naturalisation. It is not possible to give a reliable estimate of the average time likely to he taken to complete applications now being received.
  538

  Date

  Adult Registrations

  Minor Registrations

  Naturalisations

  December

  2,202

  737

  1,413

  1987

  January

  2,368

  662

  1,557

  February

  3,306

  777

  420

  March

  3,677

  759

  587

  April

  2,649

  473

  430

  May

  1,394

  500

  2,401

  June

  2,003

  610

  2,256

  Guildford Pub Bombings
  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he plans to make a statement about the review of the case of the Guildford pub bombings.

  Mr. Hurd
  As soon as I have completed my consideration of all the representations made to me about the convictions.

  Visas
  Mr. Robertson
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he has placed any restrictions on, or refused to renew, any visas relating to personnel working in the various offices of 4 Victoria street, London, S.W.1.
  539
  Mr. Renton
  I refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave on 8 July 1987, at column 145.

  Metropolitan Police (Women)
  Ms. Richardson
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) whether he will call for a report from the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis concerning the latest position of the Metropolitan police force's talks with the Equal Opportunities Commission regarding maternity leave; and if he will make a statement;

  (2) whether he will call for a report from the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis concerning the deployment of women police officers on front line duties; and if he will make a statement;

  (3) whether he will call for a report from the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis concerning the duties of women police officers in the Metropolitan police force; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Douglas Hogg
  I shall reply as soon as possible.

  Miss C. Martinez
  Mr. Heddle
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will investigate the application for a visa for Miss C. Martinez, the sister-in-law of Mr. Rudiger Schaefer of Enterprise Industrial Park, Britannia way, Lichfield, to which correspondence of 16 May Mr. Schaefer and the immigration and nationality department of his Department in Croydon refers.

  Mr. Renton
  Inquiries are being made to ascertain whether Miss Martinez satisfies the provisions in the immigration rules for the grant of further leave to remain as a visitor. Mr. Schaefer will be informed of the decision as soon as possible and the immigration and nationality department will also write to him about the other matters raised in his letter of 16 May 1987.

  Prisoners (Release)
  Mr. Bendall
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will make it his policy that none of the prisoners released as a result of the changes announced on 16 July, Official Report, columns 1292–4, should be those convicted of any offence listed in schedule 1 to the Criminal Justice Act 1982.

  Mr. Hurd
  As I told the House on 16 July, the Prison Act 1952, which governs the rules of remission, does not empower the Home Secretary to make a distinction on the basis of offences.

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what is the estimated expenditure of his Department in the current year on management and computer consultancy.

  Mr. Hurd
  I shall reply as soon as possible.

  Dogs
  Mr. Cryer
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will introduce legislation to provide for a local authority register of potentially dangerous breeds of dogs and to provide for licensing and adequate security provisions before such animals are allowed to be kept; and if he will make a statement.
  540
  Mr. Douglas Hogg
  No. We have no plans for legislation in this area. Under the Dogs Act 1871 it is open to anyone to initiate proceedings by complaining to the magistrates' court that a dog is dangerous, or to report the matter to the police who will decide whether to institute a prosecution in the light of the facts of the case. On being satisfied that a dog is dangerous and not kept under proper control, the court may make an order for it to be kept under proper control or destroyed.

  Police, Fire and Civil Defence (Expenditure)
  Mr. Sackville
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what expenditure levels he has determined in respect of 1988–89 for the joint police and fire and civil defence authorities in the metropolitan areas and the London Fire and Civil Defence Authority; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Hurd
  For these authorities, which under the Local Government Act 1985 are, for three years, deemed to have been designated under section 2 of the Rates Act 1984, I have determined expenditure levels as follows:

  £ million

  Police

  Greater Manchester

  94,052

  Merseyside

  66,916

  South Yorkshire

  40,691

  West Midlands

  92,254

  West Yorkshire

  72,479

  Northumbria

  49,926

  Fire and Civil Defence

  Greater Manchester

  46,799

  Merseyside

  31,617

  South Yorkshire

  22,314

  Tyne and Wear

  22,649

  West Yorkshire

  36,489

  West Midlands

  42,696

  London

  166,775

  The figures are net of receipts and pension contributions, and, for police and civil defence, of specific grant. For police the figures assume that police grant in 1988–89 will remain at 51 per cent.

  Formal notice of their expenditure levels has today been sent to each of the authorities together with advice on the procedure for applying for redetermination of the expenditure levels.

  Satellite Broadcasting
  Mr. Sackville
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what transmission standards will be required for the services to be provided by the holders of the Independent Broadcasting Authority contract for the provision of direct broadcasting by satellite services; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Hurd
  I confirmed on 27 March 1986 that, subject to any new factors emerging, C-MAC should be the standard use for all United Kingdom DBS services. Further study by industry and the broadcasters has, however, shown that D-MAC would offer advantages over C-MAC and the IBA has requested that D-MAC should be adopted. I have therefore agreed that D-MAC, suitably adapted fo satellite transmission, should be used in place of C-MAC for United Kingdom DBS services. Steps are being taken to submit the specification for the satellite transmission version of D-MAC (which has
  541
  already been published internationally as a standard for cable transmission) for definition by the appropriate international bodies. This is in line with the requirements of the EC Council directive on the adoption of common technical specifications of the MAC/packet family of standards for direct satellite television broadcasting.

  Animals (Experiments)
  Mr. Gwilym Jones
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) what consideration he gives, when determining applications for experiments upon animals, to the development of alternative protections for those employed in manufacturing where there is exposure to chemicals and other materials in bulk of possible harmful levels; and if he will make a statement;

  (2) what are the latest available figures for experiments upon animals; what were the comparable figures for five and 10 years previously; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Douglas Hogg
  I shall write to my hon. Friend.

  Data Protection
  Mr. Stern
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what his plans are in relation to registration fees under the Data Protection Act 1984; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Hurd
  The Data Protection Act envisages that the work of the registrar should be financed out of the product of the registration fee. That fee, covering a three-year period registration, was set at £22 in 1985 on the basis of an estimated 300,000 registrations. Actual registrations have been much less than that, and accordingly a substantial increase in the fee is now required. I have therefore made new regulations increasing the fee to £40 from 11 November this year. A further increase will be needed in November 1988 but its size will depend on the number of registrations in the intervening period.

  The Data Protection Registrar has prepared a new simplified form for registration by small data users which he plans to introduce in mid-September. I hope that any small users who have, for whatever reason, failed to register so far will take advantage for these simplified procedures and register before the fee increase takes effect in November.

  Offensive Weapons
  Mr. Janner
  asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will make it his policy to include mail order sales of offensive weapons with no legitimate purposes within the review of the legislation.

  Mr. Douglas Hogg
  In relation to the sale of offensive weapons which have no legitimate use it would be our intention to cover all outlets including mail order sales.

CIVIL SERVICE

  ISBN Numbers
  Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop
  asked the Minister for the Civil Service why the report of the study group into geological surveying bears two ISBN numbers; and whether he will protect unique ISBN numbering on all official documents to avoid designatory confusion.
  542
  Mr. Luce
  I regret that it has not been possible to provide an answer before the summer recess; therefore, I shall write to my Friend and place a copy of the letter in the Library.

PRIME MINISTER

  Disabled People
  Mr. Hannam
  asked the Prime Minister what steps are taken to ensure that full account will be taken of the needs of disabled people in all legislation to be introduced by the Government.

  The Prime Minister
  Departments co-ordinate their work to ensure that the needs of disabled people are taken fully into account in bringing forward proposals for legislation. The Minister for the Disabled keeps a close watch on these matters.

  Departmental Press Releases
  Mr. Alan Williams
  asked the Prime Minister what is her policy towards the use of official departmental press releases to announce matters relating to Conservative party organisation; and if she will make a statement.

  The Prime Minister
  Official departmental press releases are issued to announce matters concerning the business of the Department.

  Members' Correspondence
  Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop
  asked the Prime Minister whether she will remind Ministers to ensure that their Private Office staff during the summer recess send a file copy in addition to the original of every letter from a Minister to an hon. Member.

  The Prime Minister
  I am aware of my hon. Friend's concern, and I have arranged for the appropriate guidance to be reissued.

  Council of Europe
  Sir Trevor Skeet
  asked the Prime Minister if she will announce the composition of the United Kingdom delegation to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe.

  The Prime Minister
  The parliamentary assembly of the Council of Europe will be meeting in Strasbourg from 1 to 8 October. The delegation from the United Kingdom this year will consist of 12 members of the Conservative party, five members of the Labour party and one member of the Liberal party. I have also appointed a number of substitute delegates.

  The appointments of representatives and substitutes have been made on the basis of nominations by the leaders of those parties concerned.

  The same delegation will be representing the United Kingdom Parliament at the Assembly of the Western European Union.

  Representatives from the Government Benches will be:

  The hon. Member for Hampstead and Highgate (Sir G. Finsberg, who will act as leader.

  The hon. Members for:

  Warwick and Leamington (Sir D. Smith)

  Southampton, Test (Mr. Hill) (Government Whip)

  Birmingham, Edgbaston (Dame J. Knight)

  543

  Twickenham (Mr. Jessel)

  Northampton, South (Mr. Morris)

  Halesowen and Stourbridge (Mr. Stokes)

  Ruislip-Northwood (Mr. Wilkinson)

  Ashford (Mr. Speed)

  Streatham (Mr. Shelton)

  Medway (Dame P. Fenner) and the Earl of Kinnoull.

  Representatives from the Labour party will be:

  The hon. Members for:

  Neath (Mr. Coleman)

  Wallsend (Mr.Garrett)

  Wentworth (Mr. Hardy)

  Lord Hughes and Dr. Maurice Miller.

  Representatives from the Liberal party will be:

  The hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn and Lochaber (Sir Russell Johnston).

  The following substitutes have been appointed to act as necessary on behalf of the delegates:

  From the Government Benches:

  The hon. Members for:

  Bournemouth, East (Mr. Atkinson), Eastwood (Mr. Stewart), Norfolk, North (Mr. Howell), Thanet, North (Mr. Gale), Lewes (Mr. Rathbone), Brighton, Kemptown (Mr. Bowden), Suffolk, Central (Mr. Lord), Lord Newall and Lord Rodney.

  From the Labour party:

  The right hon.Member for Glasgow, Govan (Mr. Milian), the hon. Members for Tooting (Mr. Cox) and Liverpool, Riverside (Mr. Parry), the right hon. Reginald Freeson, Mr. Robert Brown, Mr. Robert Edwards, Mr. Michael McGuire and Mr. Alex Woodhall.

  From the Liberal party:

  The Lord Mackie.

  Policy Unit
  Mr. George
  asked the Prime Minister if she will list those members of her policy unit appointed since May 1979, the date they were recruited, the organisation from which they were drawn and the date they left the unit, together with the annual running costs for each year since its formation at 1987 prices.

  The Prime Minister
  Members of the policy unit appointed since May 1979 are as follows:

  Name

  Previous employment

  Year of appointment

  Year of departure

  N. R. Blackwell

  McKinsey & Company Inc.

  1986

  —

  B. Griffiths

  The City University Business School

  1985

  —

  G. R. J. Guise

  Consolidated Goldfields plc

  1986

  —

  V. E. H. Booth

  Creasey, Son & Wickenden

  1984

  —

  D. C. Hobson

  Coopers & Lybrand

  1983

  1986

  J. Hoskyns

  1979

  1982

  O. Letwin

  Former Special Adviser

  1983

  1986

  C. W. Monckton

  Centre for Policy Studies

  1982

  1986

  W. R. F. Mount

  The Standard Newspapers

  1982

  1983

  A. J. O'Sullivan

  Times Newspapers

  1987

  —

  N. C. Owen

  Department of Trade and Industry

  1983

  1986

  D. L. Pascall

  The British Petroleum Company, plc

  1983

  1984

  J. Redwood

  N. M. Rothschild & Sons Ltd.

  1983

  1985

  P. Shipley

  Conservative Research Department

  1982

  1984

  N. Strauss

  Unilever International

  1979

  1981

  P. J. Stredder

  Department of Trade and Industry

  1986

  —

  P. T. Warry

  Aerospace Engineering plc

  1984

  1986

  D. L. Willetts

  Her Majesty's Treasury

  1984

  1986

  J. B. Wybrew

  Shell International Petroleum Company Ltd.

  1984

  —

  R. Young

  Vickers Lid.

  1983

  1984

  The policy unit was formed in March 1974. The salary costs of members of the policy unit since May 1979 at 1987 prices are:
  544

  £

  1979–80

  66,147

  1980–81

  87,924

  1981–82

  86,043

  1982–83

  117,797

  1983–84

  186,153

  1984–85

  253,427

  1985–86

  293,844

  1986–87

  344,490

  1987–881

  291,000

  1 Estimate.

  Overseas Visits (Cost)
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Prime Minister what was the total cost of her recent visit to the United States of America and Jamaica; how many officials accompanied her; and how she travelled.

  The Prime Minister
  The estimated cost to my Office of the visit is £56,000. Three officials and four support staff from my Office accompanied me. We travelled on a Royal Air Force aircraft.

  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Prime Minister what has been the total cost of travel by her and staff from No. 10 Downing street in the last financial year.

  The Prime Minister
  The total cost of my travel and that of my staff in 1986–87 was £752,338.

  Office Staff
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Prime Minister if she will give the total staff complement of No. 10 Downing street for each year since 1979.

  The Prime Minister
  The total staff complement of 10 Downing street for each year since 1979 is as follows:

  Number

  1979

  71

  1980

  68

  1981

  69

  1982

  67

  1983

  68

  1984

  67

  1985

  67

  1986

  66

  1987

  67

  EC Budget
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Prime Minister what steps she took at the June meeting of European Economic Community Heads of Government to ensure that expenditure in excess of the Budget in the current year will not be validated in 1988 through an increase in national contributions made possible by changing the present contribution formula or in any other way.

  The Prime Minister
  As I told the House on 1 July, at columns 493–94, the European Council agreed to a solution to the 1987 budgetary problems along the lines we had advocated. This is within this year's 1·4 per cent. VAT ceiling. On future changes to the system of contributions to the Community budget, I made clear at the European Council that before that issue is addressed there must be agreement on effective and binding control over Community spending.

  Research
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Prime Minister how much money Her Majesty's Government have contributed directly or indirectly for collective research by the European Economic Community since 1979; what commitments they have made for future contributions; and what evidence she has of the cost-effectiveness of research (a) financed collectively by the European Economic Community and (b) financed by Her Majesty's Government.

  The Prime Minister
  The European Community's R and D programme provides funds for work carried out in the Community's own research establishments; work done in the establishments of member states on the basis of shared costs; and concerted action involving member states' own programmes. Between 1979 and 1986 the United Kingdom's gross contribution to successive Community budgets averaged some 21·7 per cent; it is not possible to attribute the United Kingdom's net budgetary contribution to particular Community activities such as research. In assessing the cost-effectiveness of R and D sponsored by the Community, the Government apply the same criteria as in the case of nationally sponsored programmes. British industry, universities and research institutions benefit considerably from R and D directly funded by the Community and carried out collaboratively.

  Regional Expenditure
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Prime Minister what assessment she has made of the cost-effectiveness of money spent by the European Economic Community in the United Kingdom regions and money spent by Her Majesty's Government for the same purpose; and if she will make a statement.

  The Prime Minister
  European Economic Community expenditure on behalf of the regions of the United Kingdom, through the European regional development fund, contributes essentially towards national public expenditure in the regions concerned. Evaluation of the effectiveness of this public expenditure, which is almost exclusively in the assisted areas, is the responsibility of several Departments. Published studies include an assessment of the effects of regional industrial policy (1960 to 1981), a study of the effects of regional financial assistance on firms' investment decisions and a study of industry's early reaction to the new regional development grants scheme introduced in November 1984.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Prime Minister whether the Government are prepared to increase the United Kingdom contribution to the EEC budget to enable more money to be provided by the EEC institutions for the benefit of the regions in the United Kingdom; and whether she will publish in the Official Report any assessment she has made of the comparative advantage of (a) EEC controlled and (b) Her Majesty's Government's expenditure in regional development.

  The Prime Minister
  The future level of funding for regional development throughout the European Community needs to be decided as part of the general debate on the Community's future financing. European Community regional expenditure fully supports the 546
  Government's own regional objectives while enabling a higher level of United Kingdom spending to be sustained than would be possible without such receipts.

  Value Added Tax
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Prime Minister whether she will publish in the Official Report the classes of goods subject to zero rating for value added tax purposes which (a) are and (b) are not covered by her undertaking not to agree to any proposal from the EEC for the imposition of value added tax in such cases, together with the Government's estimate of sales in the current year of each class of item and the corresponding rate of tax being proposed by the EEC Commission.

  The Prime Minister
  I have nothing to add to the replies I have already given which make perfectly clear the United Kingdom's position on the European Commission's proposals.

  The estimated sales of items that are currently zero-rated in the United Kingdom and the rates of tax proposed by the Commission in each case are:

  Sales 1

  VAT rate band proposed by the Commission per cent.

  £ billion

  Food

  30·5

  4–9

  Young children's clothing and footwear

  2·5

  14–20

  Fuel

  13·0

  4–9

  Books, newspapers and magazines

  3·5

  4–9

  Internal passenger transport

  4·5

  4–9

  Construction

  8·0

  14–20

  1 To nearest 0·5 billion.

  Sellafield
  Mr. Mullin
  asked the Prime Minister to which Minister British Nuclear Fuels plc is responsible for plutonium stored at Sellafield.

  The Prime Minister
  Storage of civil plutonium at Sellafield on behalf of its customers is a matter for British Nuclear Fuels plc.

TRADE AND INDUSTRY

  Manufacturing Trade
  Mr. Allen
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy or Lancaster what is the deficit on manufacturing trade.

  Mr. Alan Clark
  The balance of trade in manufactures was in deficit by £2·1 billion in the first five months of 1987.

  Torvinstyle Properties Ltd.
  Mr. Bill Michie
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will make a statement on the progress of the report of his Department's inspectors concerning Torvinstyle Properties Ltd.

  Mr. Maude
  This matter is now being investigated by the police who will report the results of their inquiries to the Director of Public Prosecutions.

  Fireworks
  Sir Barney Hayhoe
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (1) whether he will arrange discussions with firework manufacturers with the aim of agreeing voluntary limits on the noise level of fireworks available for public use;

  (2) whether he intends to introduce legislation to control the noise level produced by fireworks.

  Mr. Maude
  Over the past 25 years the firework industry has voluntarily reduced the explosive content and hence the noise level of bangers by some 40 per cent. The numbers of bangers sold has been reduced by 50 per cent. since 1977. The industry has ceased supplying jumping jacks.

  I believe that further restriction or legislative control of the noise level of fireworks would not be generally welcomed, but this and all other aspects of the safety of fireworks are kept under review and discussed periodically with manufacturers, importers and representatives of local authorities and consumer and safety organisations.

  Retail Sales
  Mr. Holland
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster how many firms represented the upper half of retail sales in the United Kingdom in 1985 and 1986.

  Mr. Butcher
  The largest 94 individual companies accounted for one-half of retail sales in Great Britain in 1985. No estimate is yet available for 1986.

  Trade Statistics
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he will publish in the Official Report a table showing for each year since 1962 the export-import ratio of United Kingdom trade in manufactures with the European Economic Community countries and with the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development countries other than the European Economic Community.

  Mr. Alan Clark
  The information is in the following table.

  Export-import ratio of United Kingdom trade in manufactures

  Per cent.

  European Community1

  Rest of OECD

  1962

  170

  173

  1963

  171

  168

  1964

  149

  130

  1965

  151

  147

  1966

  147

  153

  1967

  127

  129

  1968

  124

  120

  United Kingdom exports excluding the erratic items1

  Change in United Kingdom relative export

  Trade with the world

  United States of America

  prices4

  Volume 1980 = 100

  Value £ million

  Value £ million

  5+6

  7+8

  5+6

  7+8

  25+6

  7+8

  United States of America

  3MMC.s

  1973

  86·0

  84·4

  3,572

  5,420

  n/a

  n/a

  —

  —

  1979

  105·9

  98·7

  11,263

  16,859

  745

  1,729

  —

  —

  1986

  121·9

  113·8

  18,787

  30,315

  1,742

  5,100

  —

  —

  548

  European Community1

  Rest of OECD

  1969

  140

  121

  1970

  135

  112

  1971

  121

  126

  1972

  104

  114

  1973

  91

  100

  1974

  88

  96

  1975

  91

  99

  1976

  94

  98

  1977

  93

  98

  1978

  84

  86

  1979

  80

  83

  1980

  89

  82

  1981

  82

  78

  1982

  75

  74

  1983

  67

  72

  1984

  68

  74

  1985

  70

  81

  1986

  69

  81

  1 Present membership throughout.

  Source: United Kingdom Overseas Trade Statistics.

  Mr. Amess
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will make a statement on the present level of telecommunications and computer technology imports and exports.

  Mr. Alan Clark
  The information is in the following tables:

  United Kingdom visible trade in telecommunications and computer technology products

  January-April 1987

  £ million

  Imports

  Exports

  Telecommunications

  221·9

  178·0

  Computer technology

  1,411·5

  1,165·9

  Notes:

  (1) Telecommunications defined as SITC Sub-groups: 764.1, 764.3, and Items 764.81, 764.83 and 764.91.

  (2) Computer technology denned as SITC Sub-group 752.0 and TTCN 8455 9700 from SITC Sub-group 759.9.

  (3) Figures do not include services.

  (4) 1987 figures provisional.

  Source: Overseas Trade Statistics.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what was the percentage increase in the volume and value of United Kingdom exports of semi-manufactures and finished manufactures, less erratics, between 1973 and 1979 and between 1979 and 1986; how much of the increase was due in each case to the increase in exports to the United States of America; and what in each period was the increase in the real exchange rate, measured in terms of relative export prices, against the dollar and against all currencies.

  Mr. Alan Clark
  Export volume figures by country are not available. The available information is as follows:
  549

  United Kingdom exports excluding the erratic items1

  Change in United Kingdom relative export prices4

  Trade with the world

  United States of America

  Volume 1980=100

  Value £ million

  Value £ million

  5+6

  7+8

  5+6

  7+8

  25+6

  7+8

  United States of America

  3MMC.s

  Change between 1973 and 1979

  Per cent.

  +23

  +17

  +215

  +211

  n/a

  n/a

  +19

  +20

  Change between 1979 and 1986

  Per cent.

  +15

  +15

  +67

  +80

  +134

  +195

  -20

  -3

  1 These are defined as ships, North Sea installations, aircraft, precious stones, and silver.

  2 SITC 5+6 less division 66 and 681·1.

  3 Main manufacturing countries (Federal Republic of Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Italy, Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, United States of America, Canada and Japan).

  4 United States $ Terms.

  n/a = Not available.

  Textiles
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he will publish in the Official Report a table showing imports and exports in 1970, 1979 and 1986 by volume and value from the European Economic

  United Kingdom trade in textile yarn, fabrics and made up articles: 1979 and 1986

  1979

  1986

  EC total (including Greece, Spain and Portugal)

  Rest of world total

  EC total

  Rest of world total

  SITC items

  Metric tonnes

  £'000

  Metric tonnes

  £'000

  Metric tonnes

  £'000

  Metric tonnes

  £'000

  Imports

  652·00

  27,967

  123,569

  84,090

  192,224

  44,564

  254,698

  66,060

  216,050

  653·00

  61,603

  266,600

  34,796

  142,866

  82,179

  527,029

  47,863

  281,418

  654·00

  14,531

  56,891

  23,513

  24,450

  11,808

  100,615

  23,432

  40,863

  655·00

  5,715

  31,075

  4,570

  20,193

  7,508

  53,861

  3,622

  20,326

  656·00

  1,208

  9,651

  2,848

  35,955

  4,095

  29,390

  2,622

  39,483

  657·00

  41,479

  79,498

  17,605

  34,453

  59,422

  186,065

  20,596

  77,749

  658·00

  25,262

  78,827

  15,912

  41,821

  28,747

  138,637

  16,970

  57,022

  659·00

  49,328

  79,291

  24,970

  77,765

  154,667

  251,785

  18,161

  85,486

  Yarns

  Cotton

  21,334

  39,854

  17,172

  27,895

  32,295

  83,153

  22,711

  47,073

  Man-made fibre

  5,766

  23,818

  635

  2,976

  9,421

  60,120

  1,548

  10,776

  Wool

  91,075

  179,851

  55,801

  88,874

  140,566

  387,333

  56,550

  135,244

  Exports

  652·00

  16,209

  60,019

  11,131

  60,749

  16,391

  80,021

  8,841

  75,763

  653·00

  17,764

  60,760

  19,124

  67,059

  19,889

  76,556

  11,907

  63,030

  654·00

  9,206

  64,519

  13,296

  128,211

  8,369

  85,475

  10,802

  161,533

  655·00

  8,730

  34,512

  6,801

  33,331

  9,603

  49,904

  4,508

  28,102

  656·00

  1,592

  9,412

  1,871

  20,566

  1,536

  16,487

  1,716

  24,372

  657·00

  22,542

  55,448

  27,032

  75,294

  23,935

  96,040

  25,281

  128,435

  658·00

  11,307

  43,539

  7,011

  35,993

  9,189

  48,693

  5,936

  42,864

  659·00

  38,600

  81,807

  31,594

  85,045

  20,834

  79,775

  23,097

  102,888

  Yarns

  Cotton

  5,747

  12,173

  3,326

  7,962

  3,032

  9,386

  1,402

  5,154

  Man-made fibre

  10,363

  46,789

  6,156

  30,117

  8,538

  53,666

  7,104

  51,031

  Wool

  73,331

  143,059

  59,432

  120,082

  59,255

  194,195

  34,620

  109,884

  Notes:

  1. Cotton yarns denned as SITC Sub-group 651.3 less Item 653.31.

  2. Man-made fibres yarns defined as SITC Sub-group 651.2 less Items 651.21, 651.25 and TTCN heading 5310 2000.

  3. Woollen yarns defined as SITC Sub-groups 651.4, 651.5, 651.6, 651.7 and 651.8 less Items 651.49 and 651.78.

  4. Woollen yarns also include yarns of fine animal hair.

  5. 1986 figures provisional.

  Source: Over Trade Statistics
  550
  Community and from other countries of textiles in each three-digit sub-division of SITC division 65, excluding sub-division 651, together with the figures for, respectively, cotton, man-made fibres and wool yarns.

  Mr. Alan Clark
  Information for 1970 is not available within agreed cost limits. The requested information on United Kingdom trade in 1979 and 1986 is in the following tables:

  EC Membership (Financial and Economic Consequences)
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (1) whether he will bring up to date the figures on direct investment in tables 6 and 7 of the memorandum submitted by Her Majesty's Government to the Treasury and Civil Service Committee on the "Financial and Economic Consequences of United Kingdom Membership of the European Communities" (Session 1984–85, HC 57-II, pages 22 to 23);

  (2) whether he will bring up to date the figures on inward and outward direct investment given in tables 8 and 9 of the memorandum submitted by Her Majesty's Government to the Treasury and Civil Service Committee on the "Financial and Economic Consequences of United Kingdom Membership of the European Communities" (Session 1984–85, HC 57-II pages 24–25).

  Mr. Butcher
  I shall write to the hon. Member and place copies of my letters in the House Library.

  Rover Group (AR6 Project)
  Mr. Hoyle
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what information he has as to when the final decisions on the future of the AR6 programme will be made and announced by Rover; and what information he has as to the details and timing of the programme.

  Mr. Atkins
  Rover Group's 1987 corporate plan, covering major investment in the small car sector. was approved in full by the Government in February. The detailed product plans, however are commercially sensitive and it is established practice for the Government not to reveal them.

  British Caledonian Airways
  Mr. Grylls
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what information he has received from British Caledonian about alternative options for its future, with particular reference to a possible bid by a foreign airline.

  Mr. Kenneth Clarke
  None.

  Hospitality
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster how much has been spent on official hospitality by his Department in each of the last two financial years.

  Mr. Butcher
  Departmental expenditure on hospitality in the United Kingdom over the last two years was £153,000 in 1985–86, and £224,000 in 1986–87. Hospitality costs incurred overseas cannot readily be separated from other travel expenses.

  Rolls-Royce (Share Flotation)
  Mr. Heddle
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will investigate the case of Mr. J. R. Blake of 86 Meadow Way, Walton, Stone, Staffordshire, in respect of his application for 500 Rolls-Royce shares and the alleged lack of a satisfactory response from Barclays Bank plc, registration and new issues department.

  Mr. Butcher
  I have not been able to look into this case in the time available. However, I shall write to my hon. Friend, and place a copy of my letter in the Library of the House.

  Manufacturing Output
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he will publish in the Official Report a table showing the annual average increase in manufacturing output between 1979 and 1986 compared with the decade to the end of 1973; and if he will provide comparable information available to him on figures for the United States, Japan, Sweden, Norway, Germany, France and Italy.

  Mr. Butcher
  The information is as follows:

  Average annual increase in manufacturing output (Per cent.)

  1963–73

  1979–86

  United Kingdom

  3·4

  -0·6

  United States of America

  5·5

  2·1

  Japan

  12·3

  3·5

  Sweden

  5·1

  1·4

  Norway

  4·9

  1·3

  West Germany

  5·1

  1·1

  France

  6·2

  -0·6

  Italy

  5·6

  0·7

  Source: OECD Main Economic Indicators.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster to what he ascribes the fall in the United Kingdom share of manufacturing output in the industrial countries since 1973; and if he will publish in the Official Report a table showing to one place of decimals the share of each of the main industrial countries in 1973 and 1986.

  Mr. Butcher
  A country's share of world manufacturing output reflects a variety of influences. In the United Kingdom's case during the 1970s relevant factors included high inflation, overmanning, and low productivity. In the 1980s the performance of the United Kingdom's manufacturing industry relative to that of our main European competitiors has improved markedly, as evidence, for example, by the fact that the United Kingdom is now at the top of the productivity growth league for the major industrial countries. Figures for all industrial countries are not readily available and could only be produced at disproportionate cost.

  Regional Aid
  Mr. Gordon Brown
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will list spending on regional selective assistance for each region, Scotland and Wales in 1986–87 and proposed spending in 1987–88.

  Mr. Butcher
  Provisional figures for payments of regional selective assistance (RSA) in 1986–87 are as follows:

  Area

  £ million

  North East

  18·5

  North West

  19·2

  Yorkshire and Humberside

  10·0

  East Midlands

  2·2

  West Midlands

  9·9

  South West

  5·2

  Scotland

  35·4

  Wales

  27·5

  Great Britain Total

  127·9

  553
  Estimates for future expenditure are not broken down by English region: the actual distribution will depend on the level of demand. The RSA provision for each country in 1987–88, as set out in the Supply Estimates, is as follows:

  £ million

  England

  89·3

  Scotland

  46·8

  Wales

  36·1

  Great Britain Total

  172·2

  Notes:

  (1) RSA has been interpreted as industrial and training grants.

  (2) All figures are gross, before deducting recoveries and European Community receipts under the European regional development fund.

  Post Office (Sorting Machinery)
  Mr. Hoyle
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if, when he next meets the chairman of the Post Office, he will raise with him the adequacy of Post Office sorting machinery to sort mail with hand-written post codes.

  Mr. Butcher
  No. I see no reason to raise with the chairman what is a detailed operational matter for the Post Office Board.

  Retail Grocery Sector
  Mr. Aspinwall
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will list those mergers or acquisitions within the retail grocery sector notified to his Department in the last five years which were not subsequently referred to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission.

  Mr. Maude
  This information is not readily available. I shall write to my hon. Friend as soon as possible and place a copy of my letter in the Library of the House.

  Mr. Aspinwall
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what is the total number of referrals made to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission in the last five years concerning mergers and acquisitions within the retail grocery sector, together with the Commission's recommendations.

  Mr. Maude
  In the last five years two merger proposals involving companies in the retail grocery sector have been referred to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission: the proposed acquisition of Linfood Holdings PLC by Fitch Lovell PLC (referred 2 November 1982) and the proposed acquisition of Booker McConnell PLC by the Dee Corporation PLC (referred 21 June 1984). In both cases the Monopolies and Mergers Commission concluded that the proposals would not operate against the public interest.

  Mr. Aspinwall
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will estimate the total number of independent retail grocery businesses that have closed down in (a) the last 10 years and (b) the most recent year for which figures are available.

  Mr. Butcher
  Data available from the retailing inquiries conducted by the Business Statistics Office suggest that the number of single outlet grocery retailers fell by(a) about 25,000 businesses between 1976 and 1984 and (b) 6,000 businesses between 1982 and 1984.

  Mr. Aspinwall
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will publish information available to him
  554
  on the percentage share of the retail grocery sector during each of the last 10 years, and for the latest date for which figures are available of (a) major multiples, (b) other multiples, (c) independent stores and (d) co-operatives.

  Mr. Alan Clark
  I shall write to my hon. Friend and place a copy of my letter in the Library of the House.

  Competition and Retailing (Report)
  Mr. Aspinwall
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (1) whether he intends to undertake further studies to update the findings of the Office of Fair Trading's competition and retailing report; and if he will make a statement;

  (2) what recent representations have been received by his Department or the Office of Fair Trading concerning the matter of discriminatory discounting within the retail grocery sector; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Maude
  The 1985 Office of Fair Trading report, "Competition and Retailing", found no material change in the factors which led the Monopolies and Mergers Commission to conclude, in 1981, that discriminatory discounting had not in general operated against the public interest. There are in our view no grounds at present for further studies. Since the start of this year, my Department and the Office of Fair Trading have received eight representations on the subject.

  Retail Developments
  Mr. Aspinwall
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster under what circumstances regional assistance is given to retail developments in the immediate locality of assisted regions.

  Mr. Butcher
  None. Regional assistance is not given to projects which serve purely local markets, nor to projects outside assisted area boundaries.

  Citizens Advice Bureaux
  Mr. Hanley
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what considerations he has given to providing funding for the re-training needs of Citizens Advice Bureaux caused by recent changes in legislation and by the programme outlined in the Queen's Speech; and whether he will make a statement.

  Mr. Maude
  I am aware of the need for workers in Citizens Advice Bureaux to keep themselves informed of changes in legislation which affect the public. The National Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux, which provides the resources for the training of bureaux workers and which is funded by grant-in-aid from my Department, takes the cost of such training into account when estimating its needs for Government funding.

  European Space Agency
  Mr. Knox
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he will give a progress report on preparations for the European Space Agency ministerial meeting in November.

  Mr. Michael Marshall
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster in what form and by what date he anticipates announcing Her Majesty's Government's

  555
  response to the British National Space Centre's proposals for future expenditure before the European Space Agency meeting of Ministers scheduled for 9 and 10 November.

  Mr. Kenneth Clarke
  Discussions are currently taking place between officials of the member states of the European Space Agency. The Government are reviewing their priorities for R & D expenditure. It is important that we make the most effective use for the benefit of United Kingdom industrial performance of the resources available from the taxpayer. The longer term benefits of expenditure on space research have to be balanced against alternative uses of funds in support of other areas of United Kingdom industry.

  Having carefully considered the options on space, we have decided at present not to increase our expenditure above the current level. This is already running at over £100 million a year. Discussions and preparations will therefore proceed upon that basis. The private sector, if interested in the results from such research, should come forward with further resources.

  Bucharest International Fair
  Mr. Hunter
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what assistance his Department is giving to British firms wishing to exhibit at the Bucharest international fair on 17 to 20 October.

  Mr. Alan Clark
  My Department's Eastern European market branch is ready to offer whatever information and advice it can to those companies exhibiting at the Bucharest international fair, and in Bucharest, the commercial staff at the embassy stand ready to assist British companies in any way they can.

  Mr. Hunter
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he or the Secretary of State has any plans to visit the Bucharest international fair on 17 to 20 October; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Alan Clark
  My right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State have no plans to visit the Bucharest international fair in October.

  I myself had to postpone a visit to Romania this April but hope to reinstate it next year.

  BA/B-Cal Merger
  Mr. Janman
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if, in considering the British Airways/British Caledonian merger, he will have regard to any alternative offers put forth by other British carriers for the separate purchase of British Caledonian's intra-European or domestic operations as a means of preserving competition.

  Mr. Kenneth Clarke
  In deciding whether to refer to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission mergers qualifying for investigation under the Fair Trading Act 1973, my right hon. and noble Friend considers each case on its merits, having regard to the advice of the Director General of Fair Trading and taking all relevant factors into account. However, alternative proposals for the separate purchase of some of British Caledonian's operations are in the first instance matters of commercial negotiation.
  556
  Mr. Cran
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what would be the combined market share of British Airways and British Caledonian in respect of ground crew and maintenance services at Gatwick.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  I have been asked to reply.

  I do not have the information requested. I suggest that my hon. Friend approaches the airlines direct.

  British Shipbuilders
  Mr. Barry Field
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he has received the annual report and accounts of British Shipbuilders for the current year.

  Mr. Atkins
  In accordance with section 17(a) and 18 (b) of the Aircraft and Shipbuilding Industries Act 1977, my right hon. Friend is today laying before each House copies of British Shipbuilders' annual report and accounts for 1986–87.

  Postal Dispute (London)
  Mr. Forth
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what action he will take to safeguard postal services in the light of the recent disruption of the mail service in central London and the threat of national industrial actions.

  Mr. Kenneth Clarke
  It is primarily for the Post Office Board to deal with industrial action by its employees.. However, subject to certain derogations, the Post Office enjoys the exclusive privilege of providing a letter service in the United Kingdom. The Government consider that such a privilege must continually be justified, and powers are available to suspend the monopoly. The monopoly is long established and we would not lightly suspend the privilege. But Ministers have stated on a number of occasions that we would use those powers in the event of industrial action within the Post Office that resulted in a cessation or serious decline in the quality of service. I confirm that that remains our policy and I would suspend the monopoly in such circumstances but I do not believe that the problems in London's west central district have yet reached the stage of sufficient gravity to justify that step.

  Aid and Trade Funding
  Mr. Teddy Taylor
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will list the projects which received funds under the aid and trade project in the most recent year for which figures are available; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Alan Clark
  I shall write to my hon. Friend and place a copy of my letter in the Library of the House.

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what is the estimated expenditure of the Department of Trade and Industry in the current year on management and computer consultancy.

  Mr. Butcher
  The DTI expects to spend £3·3 million on management consultancy and £7·2 million on computer consultancy during 1987–88 as part of the Department's management programme. The figures exclude payments to consultants engaged in connection with the Department's support activities to industry.

NATIONAL FINANCE

  Interest Rates
  Mr. Nicholas Bennett
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is the real interest rate, based on interest rates minus inflation, in each Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development country at the latest available date.

  Mr. Lilley
  There is no unique measure of "real" interest rates. The monthly publication OECD main economic indicators gives certain short and long-term interest rates and various price indices for the OECD countries.

  Self-employed Persons
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will bring up to date the figures on the number and total income of self-employed persons given in the memorandum on the financial and economic consequences of United Kingdom membership of the European Communities, as set out in evidence to the Treasury and Civil Service Committee (HC, 57-II, page 69, Session 1984–85).

  Mr. Norman Lamont
  I regret that it has not been possible to provide an answer before the summer recess. Therefore, I shall write to the hon. Member and place a copy of the letter in the Library.

  Public Expenditure
  Mr. McFall
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will estimate the public spending planning total for 1987–88 and 1988–89.

  Mr. Major
  The Government's plans for public expenditure were published in the 1987 public expenditure White Paper (Cm. 56).

  Civil Service Pension Scheme
  Mr. Butler
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he proposes to issue guidelines to Government Departments on the extent to which special advisers should be informed of the opt-out alternatives from the principal Civil Service pension scheme; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Brooke
  I regret that it has not been possible to provide an answer before the summer recess. I shall therefore, write to my hon. Friend and place a copy of the letter in the Library.

  Cash Accounting Scheme
  Mr. Fallon
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer when the commissioners of Customs and Excise will be making and laying before the House the detailed regulations to implement the cash accounting scheme proposed in his Budget statement on 17 March; whether they will differ from the draft placed in the Library in April; and whether he will make a statement.

  Mr. Brooke
  The regulations for cash accounting could not be made until the European Community derogation, requested by the Government on 17 March, had been approved. As I told my hon. Friend the Member for Surrey, South-West (Mrs. Bottomley) on 20 July at 558
  column 74 the Council of Ministers has now agreed to our request for a derogation. The Commissioners of Customs and Excise will be making and laying the necessary regulations during the summer recess, thus ensuring that the cash accounting scheme will be available for use by small businesses from 1 October.

  Following consultation with trade and professional bodies, a number of significant changes are being made to the draft regulations which were placed in the Library. These changes, all intended to be beneficial to small businesses wishing to use the cash accounting scheme, will of course be widely publicised when the regulations are laid.

  Rating Repair
  Sir Barney Hayhoe
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will make it his policy to assign part or the whole of the yield from income tax to the payment of local government expenditure under the proposed community charge and unified business rate system.

  Mr. Lawson
  No. Central Government already provide substantial support to local government expenditure from national taxation. But it is not the practice of the Government to hypothecate revenues from a particular tax to particular areas of expenditure.

  Mr. Dalyell
  asked the Chancellor of Exchequer what assessment he has made of the implication for Inland Revenue valuation staff of the proposed community charge.

  Mr. Norman Lamont
  The Inland Revenue valuation staff will not be involved in the administration of the community charge. Their existing responsibility for the valuation of domestic properties and maintenance of the corresponding valuation list will cease as domestic rates in England and Wales come to an end.

  Retail Prices Index
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is his estimate of the effect on the retail prices index after one, two and three years of a reduction of 10 per cent. in the trade-weighted average nominal exchange rate, all other considerations remaining the same.

  Mr. Lilley
  The effects of a change in the exchange rate on the RPI will depend on a number of factors such as the reason for the change and the operation of policy.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is his estimate of the effect of the fall in the trade-weighted nominal exchange rate over the past 12 months on the retail prices index compared with the increase in the cost of housing; and if he will provide illustrative figures.

  Mr. Lilley
  The housing component of the RPI, which includes rents, rates and mortgage interest payments among other things, increased by about 10 per cent in the 12 months to June 1987, accounting for about 1½percentage points of the increase in the RPI over this period. For the effect of the exchange rate on the RPI, I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave earlier today.

  Unit Costs
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will publish in the Official Report his estimate of the percentage increase in unit labour costs for (a) manufacturing, (b) the production and extractive industries and (c) the rest of the economy in the latest 12 months for which figures are available, for each year since 1970, and for the decades ending in 1966 and 1973.

  Mr. Major
  Figures are available for manufacturing industries and for the production industries (which includes the extractive industries) only from 1971 to 1985. The 1986 figures will be published in due course in the Department of Employment Gazette. No figures are compiled for the rest of the economy.

  Unit labour costs percentage increase on previous year

  Manufacturing industries

  Production industries

  1971

  8·2

  7·5

  1972

  9·5

  10·5

  1973

  5·9

  5·4

  1974

  17·4

  19·5

  1975

  37·2

  36·6

  1976

  10·8

  9·2

  1977

  10·8

  7·7

  1978

  15·1

  12·9

  1979

  17·9

  13·7

  1980

  22·2

  21·5

  1981

  9·0

  7·2

  1982

  4·8

  3·3

  1983

  0·2

  -0·9

  1984

  3·1

  2·0

  1985

  4·2

  4·6

  Personal Incomes
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will publish in the Official Report tables, with the same distribution and in the same format as his reply dated 25 July 1986, Official Report, columns 664–66, of information on taxable incomes and yield showing (a) the effect of the recent budgetary changes in a full year and (b) the replacement of all allowances and reliefs, including the wife's earnings election, by (i) an increase in the personal allowances to £2,500 and £5,000 for, respectively, single persons and married couples under age 65 and to £3,000 and £5,000 for those over 65, (ii) a reduced rate band of £1,000 for single persons and £2,000 for married couples at 15 per cent., followed by a standard-rate band of £7,250 for single persons and £9,500 for married couples at 25 per cent., followed by four higher-rate bands of £5,000 in 5 per cent. steps for single persons and three higher rate bands of £7.500, £7,000 and £7,000 in 5 per cent. steps for married couples, (iii) the introduction of a claw back (on the lines of the present age allowance) of the whole of the single allowance and £3,000 of the married allowance at a rate of £4 for every £10 of income in excess of £4,500 for single persons under 65, £5,000 for those over 65 and £9,000 for all married couples.

  Mr. Norman Lamont
  I regret that it has not been possible to provide an answer before the summer recess. I shall, therefore, write to the hon. Member and place a copy of the letter in the Library.

  EC Budget
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will bring up to date the information given in his written reply to the hon. Member for Dagenham (Mr. Gould) of 4 February, Official Report, columns 669–70, concerning the principal components in the United Kingdom's payments and receipts from the European Economic Community together with a forecast for the current year.

  Mr. Brooke
  The information requested concerning the outturn for the 1986 calendar year and an estimate for 1987 is given in the table:

  Principal Components in United Kingdom Payments to and Receipts from the EEC1

  1986

  2l987

  VAT rates (percentage) (budget figures)

  Community VAT ceiling

  1·4

  1·4

  UK VAT rate

  0·67663

  0·7982

  FRG VAT rate

  1·33697

  1·3102

  Other states VAT rate

  1·39996

  1·3643

  Payments (£ million)

  VAT before abatements

  3,005

  3,175

  Abatements

  -1,701

  -1,126

  Sugar and Isoglucose levies

  52

  60

  Agricultural levies

  192

  176

  Customs duties

  1,244

  1,329

  Total contribution

  2,792

  3,614

  Receipts

  EAGGF

  1,374

  1,422

  Regional Development Fund

  298

  327

  Social Fund

  335

  263

  Other receipts

  213

  255

  Total receipts

  2,219

  2,267

  Net contribution

  572

  1,347

  Source: Departmental records.

  1 Because of rounding, the column totals do not necessarily equal the sum of the individual items.

  2 The forecast for 1987 is taken from the Statement on the 1987 Community budget, Cm. 194 published on 23 July 1987.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer, pursuant to his reply to the hon. Member for Dagenham (Mr. Gould) on 6 February, Official Report, column 840, setting out the financial guideline for the European Economic Community budget, whether he will publish in the Official Report, a table comparing the guideline for 1987 with what was originally proposed by the European Economic Community Commission and what has now been agreed on an adhoc basis; and if he will explain how the additional finance is to be raised.

  Mr. Brooke
  The financial guideline for the European Community Budget for 1987, remains at 22,961 million ecus, as was stated on 6 February 1987 at column 840. It was agreed at the European Council on 29–30 June and subsequently by the Agriculture Council on 13 July, that agricultural expenditure would be kept within the 1987 financial guideline by means of an adjustment in the system of advance payments to agricultural intervention agencies in the Member states.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he can now provide the information

  561
  for 1987 which was omitted from his written reply to the hon. Member for Dagenham (Mr. Gould) on 3 February, Official Report, column 578, concerning the United Kingdom's value added tax share of the allocated European Economic Community budget and the corresponding receipt.

  Mr. Brooke
  On the basis of the information contained in the 1988 preliminary draft budget, the figures for 1987 which correspond to those for 1986 given in my reply to the hon. Member for Dagenham (Mr. Gould) on 3 February 1987 at column 578 are 6,961 mecu for our VAT share of the allocated budget and 3,524 mecu for our allocated receipts.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will bring up to date the information given in his written reply to the hon. Member for Dagenham (Mr. Gould) on 3 February, Official Report column 578, concerning the amount by which the United Kingdom contribution to the European Economic Community budget exceeds receipts; and if he will add a forecast for 1987, including in that forecast any contribution which may have to be paid next year to cover a shortfall in revenue in the current year.

  Mr. Brooke
  The figures for 1986, together with an estimate for 1987, are as in the table. There are no proposals in the 1988 preliminary draft budget for dealing with any shortfall in revenue this year.

  £ million

  Gross contributions less receipts other than rebates/ abatements

  1abatements

  unpaid abatement outstanding

  1986

  2,273

  2 31,294

  —

  19874

  22,473

  2 51,565

  —

  1 This column shows abatements against the year to which they relate, not the year in which they are paid.

  2 These figures have been calculated using an exchange rate of £1 = 1·45 ecu.

  3 This figure is the sterling equivalent of the 1,633 mecu abatement in respect of 1986 contained in the 1987 budget plus the 244 mecu correction to our abatement in respect of 1986 contained in the 1988 preliminary draft budget.

  4 These figures are taken from the Statement on the 1987 Community budget, Cm 194, published on 23 July. They do not take account of the supplementary and amending budget now approved by the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament.

  5 This figure is the sterling equivalent of the 2,269 mecu abatement in respect of 1987 contained in the 1988 preliminary draft budget.

  Income Tax
  Mr. Gordon Brown
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will estimate the cost of extending the separate assessment of wife's income election to investment income; and how many people he calculates could benefit from such an opportunity.

  Mr. Norman Lamont
  On the basis of the distribution of investment income between husbands and wives reported to the Inland Revenue, the full year cost at 1987–88 income levels of extending the wife's earnings election to investment income and category B national insurance pensions is about £120 million and about 170,000 couples would benefit. These estimates may understate the full effects because some investment income for which income tax liability at the basic rate is satisfied 562
  at source is not reported to the Inland Revenue and the estimates make no allowance for behavioural changes which might occur.

  Inner-city Programmes
  Mr. Gordon Brown
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will itemise all additional expenditure authorised on inner-city programmes for the financial year 1987–88.

  Mr. Major
  I regret that it has not been possible to provide an answer before the summer recess. I shall, therefore, write to the hon. Member and place a copy of the letter in the Library.

  National Debt
  Mr. Ground
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what was the national debt, including foreign currency debt but excluding official holdings, outstanding at the end of March, as a percentage of gross domestic product, average measure, at current market prices centred on 31 March; and what is his estimate of the national debt so expressed for the end of March 1988.

  Mr. Lilley
  No estimate is as yet available of the national debt, including foreign currency debt but excluding official holdings, outstanding at the end of March 1987. Including official holdings and foreign currency debt, the national debt outstanding at the end of march 1987 was £185·8 billion, 47·3 per cent. of the average measure of gross domestic product in the first quarter of 1987 (at an annual rate at current market prices). No forecast is available for 1988.

  Disposable Incomes
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is his estimate of the average annual percentage increase in real personal disposable income in 1974 to 1979 and from 1979 to the latest available period of 12 months.

  Mr. Major
  The average annual increase in real personal disposable income from 1974 to 1979 was 2·1 per cent. From 1979 to the year ending in the first quarter of 1987 the average annual increase was 1·9 per cent.

  Investment Statistics
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will publish in the Official Report his estimate of the net inflow of overseas funds each year since 1979 and in 1987 to date for investment in (a) Government securities, (b) privatisation issues and (c) other securities.

  Mr. Lilley
  The available information relating to net investment by overseas residents in United Kingdom government and other securities since 1979 is given in the 1986 edition of the "United Kingdom Balance of Payments" (the CSO Pink Book) and in Economic Trends for June 1987, copies of which are in the Library. The relevant Pink Book tables are 8.2 (direct investment), 8.3 (portfolio investment) and 8.6 (short-term government securities). The corresponding Economic Trends tables are 9, 10 and 13.
  563
  The following information on the main recent privatisation issues relates to estimated initial subscriptions in overseas markets:

  £ million

  1984

  280

  1985

  190

  1986

  350

  11987

  270

  1 First half.

  Government Securities
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will publish in the Official Report a table showing the amount of interest payable on Government securities in 1986 in money terms and as a percentage of gross domestic product to one place of decimals compared with 1957, 1967 and 1978.

  Mr. Lilley
  Following is the information:

  Interest payable of British Government Securities

  £ billion

  Per cent, of GDP

  1957–58

  0·5

  2·4

  1967–68

  0·9

  2·2

  1978–79

  4·9

  2·9

  1985–86

  12·1

  3·4

  Note: Complete information is only available on a financial year basis.

  Figures for 1986–87 will be published in the "Consolidated Fund and National Loans Fund Accounts" (to be published in December).

  House Prices
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is his assessment of the part the increase in house prices has played in raising wage costs since 1975 and 1979, respectively; what provision the Government have made to compensate their employees for moving from the regions to London; and what is his estimate of the difference in annual housing costs for the average employee on Humberside and in London.

  Mr. Brooke
  There may be a relationship between house prices and average earnings but its exact nature and size are open to question.

  The arrangements for assisting civil service staff on transfer to areas where housing is more expensive have recently been improved. Somebody who is permanently transferred to London and now has to spend at least an extra £30,000 to buy a similar house can now receive up to £2,460 per year at current mortgage interest rates. (Before 1 April 1987 the limit was £1,138 per year).

  There are no official figures for differences in housing costs between the regions. However, information on relative housing expenditure between regions is available from the "Family Expenditure Survey" (Table 29). The latest information concerns average weekly expenditure in the years 1984 and 1985 and shows average gross weekly expenditure of £35·82 per week in Greater London and £24·85 per week in Yorkshire and Humberside.

  Interest and Exchange Rates
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what weight is attached by the Government to the level of unemployment in determining the level of interest rates and the exchange rate.

  Mr. Lilley
  We attach great importance to the creation of jobs. The objective of the Government's economic policy is to defeat inflation and maintain a vigorous, enterprising economy which will generate sustained growth and increased employment.

  Value Added Tax
  Mr. Nicholas Bennett
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether there are any proposals to alter the rate of value added tax; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Brooke
  My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has no such plans.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will publish in the Official Report a table showing the value of trade with the EEC in those manufactured goods and alcoholic beverages, respectively, in 1986 which are the subject of proposals for a harmonised rate of value added tax and revenue duties put forward by the EEC Commission; what is his estimate of the amount of tax which would he chargeable at the United Kingdom rate on imports and exports; and what arrangements would be made to recover input value added tax on imports to ensure that there was no loss of revenue to the Exchequer as a result of imbalance of trade.

  Mr. Brooke
  The full package of the Commission's proposals for tax approximation has not yet been submitted to the Council. Until it has been carefully studied it will not be possible to give the hon. Member a reply.

  Self-employed Persons
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will publish in the Official Report a table showing for 1983–84 onwards the number and total incomes, capital allowances and so on, of self-employed persons in agriculture and horticulture on the same basis as in the written reply to the hon. Member for Great Grimsby on 26 March 1985, Official Report, columns 156–58.

  Mr. Norman Lamont
  I regret that it has not been possible to provide an answer before the summer recess. I shall, therefore, write to the hon. Member and place a copy of the letter in the Library.

  Hospitality
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how much has been spent by his Department on official hospitality in each of the last two financial years.

  Mr. Brooke
  The amount spent on official hospitality was £30,438 in 1985–86 and £36,942 in 1986–87.

  Milk Quotas
  Mr. Amos
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will initiate discussions with interested parties and

  565
  organisations about the tax treatment of milk quotas under the Capital Gains Tax Act 1979; if he will take steps to extend the scale of the reliefs available; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Norman Lamont
  I have noted my hon. Friend's suggestion.

  Imports and Exports
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) what is his estimate of the effect on the volume of imports of finished manufactures of an increase of 10 per cent. in the real exchange rate, measured in terms of relative export prices, all other considerations remaining the same;

  (2) what is his estimate of the effect on the volume of exports of finished manufactures of an increase of 10 per cent. in the real exchange rate, measured in terms of relative export prices, all other considerations remaining the same.

  Mr. Lilley
  I refer the hon. Member to the documentation for the Treasury macroeconomic model which was published in January. The estimates it contains are uncertain, subject to a margin of error and are kept under review.

  Credit
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether Her Majesty's Government will introduce selective controls on credit by imposing differential reserve requirements on financial institutions designed to curb asset speculation, based on non-interest-bearing deposits with the Bank of England; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Lilley
  No.

  Manufacturing Output
  Mr. Yeo
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how much has been the rise in output in the first six months of 1987 compared with the equivalent period in 1986.

  Mr. Lawson
  The information requested is not yet available. Estimates of output for the first half of 1987, including a preliminary estimate for the second quarter, will be published by the CSO on 18 August.

  Autumn Statement
  Mr. Canavan
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what representations he has received about his autumn statement on the economy.

  Mr. Major
  My right hon. Friend has received no such representations.

  Manufactured Goods
  Mr. Rooker
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what are the latest balance of payments figures for manufactured goods.

  Mr. Major
  I regret that it has not been possible to provide an answer before the summer recess. I shall, therefore, write to the hon. Member and place a copy of the letter in the Library.

  Priority Development Areas
  Mr. Adley
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will introduce legislation to provide tax incentives for investment in places designated by Her Majesty's Government as priority development areas; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Norman Lamont
  I have noted my hon. Friend's suggestion.

  Oil Revenue
  Mr. Wallace
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what revenue was derived in 1986–87 from the production of oil from the Brent and Ninian fields.

  Mr. Lilley
  I regret that information on revenues arising from oil production in individual oil fields is not available as corporation tax is assessed on a company basis.

  Exchange Rates
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what effect the increase in the exchange rate since 1972 has had on the increase in incomes in the industries not producing internationally traded goods and services.

  Mr. Lilley
  The sterling exchange rate index has fallen rather than increased since 1972. It is not possible to estimate the effect of the exchange rate changes on incomes in industries producing non-traded goods and services since this depends on what would otherwise have happened and the operation of policy.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will publish in the Official Report a table showing information available to him on the degree of correlation between changes in the exchange rates and changes in consumer prices in the United Kingdom, the United States of America, Germany and Japan between turning points in the period 1957 and 1986.

  Mr. Lilley
  I refer the hon. Member to "International Financial Statistics Yearbook" (1986) published by the International Monetary Fund.

  Prices
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will publish in the Official Report a table showing the percentage increase since 1979 in the gross domestic product deflator, the retail prices index, producer input and output prices excluding food, and the cost of fuel and imported raw materials.

  Mr. Lilley
  Figures for the gross domestic product deflator are published in Economic Trends. The retail prices index is published in the Department of Employment Gazette. The unit value index for imports of basic materials is published in the Monthly Review of Evternal Trade Statistics. Indices of producer input and output prices for manufacturing excluding food are not compiled. However, long series of indices of producer input and output prices for manufacturing excluding food, drink and tobacco were published in British Business on 8 May 1987, where indices of the costs of fuel bought by manufacturing industry may also be found. Producer price indices are also available in the Monthly Digest of Statistics.

  Gross Domestic Product
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is his estimate of the average annual rate of growth in gross domestic product in the next five years, excluding the extraction of oil and gas; and what was the average rate reached in the decade to the end of 1973.

  Mr. Major
  Table 2.3 in the 1987 "Financial Statement and Budget Report" shows growth assumptions for real GDP excluding extraction of oil and gas. These figures are consistent with the FSBR forecast to mid-1988 and the MTFS path for money GDP to 1990–91. The average annual increase in the output-based measure of GDP excluding oil and gas extraction in the decade to the end of 1973 was 2·7 per cent.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will publish in the Official Report a table showing the average annual percentage increase in gross domestic product between 1979 and 1986, excluding the extraction of oil and gas, and the annual average in the decade to the end of 1973; and if he will provide comparable information available to him of figures for the United States, Japan, Sweden, Norway, Germany, France and Italy.

  Mr. Major
  I refer the hon. Member to the information on the United Kingdom's gross domestic product obtainable from the Central Statistical Office's computer database (available from the House of Commons Library).

  Comparable data excluding oil and gas extraction are not available for the other countries specified. Comparable data on total gross domestic product (including oil and gas extraction) are shown in the "Annual National Accounts, Volume One" (1987) published by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.

  Personal Equity Plans
  Mr. Chris Smith
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what estimates he has made of the breakdown of the total full year cost of tax relief for the personal equity plan scheme between (a) capital gains tax relief and (b) income tax relief.

  Mr. Norman Lamont
  The cost of the tax reliefs for personal equity plans will depend on the number of plans, the amounts invested and the performance of those investments. The cost in 1987–88, which is wholly income tax relief, is expected to be about £25 million. Costs will build up in future years, and after January 1989 investments made in 1987 may be realised free of capital gains tax.

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is the estimated expenditure of his Department in the current year on management and computer consultancy.

  Mr. Brooke
  The Treasury plans to spend approximately £2 million on management and computer consultancy in the financial year 1987–88.

  EC Budget Council
  Sir Anthony Meyer
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will make a statement on the outcome of the recent meeting of the European Community Budget Council.
  568
  Mr. Brooke
  The Budget Council met in Brussels on 23 July. I represented the United Kingdom.

  The Council met a delegation from the European Parliament led by Lord Plumb, to hear the Parliament's views on the 1988 budget.

  The Council then discussed the Commission's preliminary draft budget proposals for 1988. I made clear that any draft budget established must respect the own resources ceiling. The Council adjourned without reaching any decision on the 1988 budget, and agreed to resume its discussions in September.

  Tax Appeals (Northern Ireland)
  Mr. Raffan
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if there are any plans to change the present arrangements for tax appeals in Northern Ireland.

  Mr. Norman Lamont
  A consultative document will shortly be published on the joint authority of my right hon. Friends, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Lord Chancellor, on the possibility of setting up general commissioners in Northern Ireland.

  Most appeals against tax assessments are heard by the general commissioners but a taxpayer may elect in many cases to take his appeal to the special commissioners instead.

  For historical reasons there are no general commissioners in Northern Ireland and all appeals are heard by the special commissioners (subject in most cases to a little used right of election to have the appeal heard by the county court). The consultative document will consider the possible setting up of general commissioners in Northern Ireland.

  The document will invite representations which should be sent to the Inland Revenue by 20 November 1987. An Inland Revenue press release giving further details will be issued when the document is published.

  Income Tax
  Mr. Frank Field
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will publish in the Official Report a distributional analysis of all income tax reductions since 1979 (a) taking the gains to the top 1 per cent., top 2 to 5 per cent., top 6 to 10 per cent., top 11 to 20 per cent., top 21 to 30 per cent., top 31 to 50 per cent., bottom 50 per cent., points in the income distribution, giving the number of tax units for each group, the reduction in income tax for each group compared with 1978–79, and the average per tax unit, and (b) taking the gains to those with total income under £5,000, £5,000 to £10,000, £10,000 to £15,000, £15,000 to £20,000. £20,000 to £30,000, £30,000 to £40,000, £40,000 to £50,000, over £50,000, giving the number of units paying tax and the reduction in income tax compared with 1978–79, giving both the amount for each income group and the average per tax unit.

  Mr. Norman Lamont
  [pursuant to his reply, 20 July 1987, c. 75]: The tables show the latest estimates of reductions in income tax liabilities at 1987–88 income levels of the 1987–88 income tax regime compared with an indexed 1978–79 regime. The comparison thus allows for budgetary changes in tax rates, thresholds and allowances but not for any change in the definition of the tax base. The 1978–79 allowances and thresholds have been indexed in line with the increase in the retail prices index between

  569
  December 1977 and December 1986. As child tax allowances were being phased out in 1978–79 they have been excluded from the comparison.

  TABLE 1

  Reductions in Income Tax Liabilities in 1987–88 compared with 1978–79 Indexed Tax Regime

  Point of income distribution1 in 1987–88

  Number of units2 paying tax in 1987–88

  Reduction in tax

  Average3 reduction in income tax compared with the 1978–79 indexed regime

  '000s

  £ million

  £ per year

  Top 1 per cent.

  210

  1,870

  9,030

  Top 2 to 5 per cent.

  830

  1,690

  2,040

  Top 6 to 10 per cent.

  1,040

  1,240

  1,190

  Top 11 to 20 per cent.

  2,080

  1,760

  850

  Top 21 to 30 per cent.

  2,080

  890

  430

  Top 31 to 50 per cent.

  4,150

  1,580

  380

  Bottom 50 per cent.

  10,380

  2,110

  200

  All

  20,750

  11,150

  540

  Notes:

  1 Based on 20,750,000 single people and married couples expected to pay tax in 1987–88 and excluding 850,000 who would pay tax under the revalorised 1978–79 regime.

  2 All information is in terms of tax units i.e. married couples are counted as one and their incomes combined.

  3 By reference to the numbers paying tax in 1987–88.

  TABLE 2

  Reductions in Income Tax Liabilities in 1987–88 compared with 1978–79 Indexed Tax Regime

  Range of gross income

  Number of units1 paying tax in 1987–88

  Reduction in tax

  Average2 reduction in income tax compared with the 1978–79 indexed regime

  '000s

  £ million

  £ per year

  Under 5,000

  3,210

  330

  90

  5,000–10,000

  7,610

  1,940

  250

  10,000–15,000

  5,130

  2,120

  410

  15.000–20,000

  2,590

  1,860

  720

  20,000–30,000

  1,510

  1,860

  1,230

  30,000–40,000

  410

  860

  2,100

  40,000–50,000

  140

  540

  3,730

  over 50,000

  150

  1,640

  10,790

  All

  20,750

  11,150

  540

  Notes:

  1 All information is in terms of tax units — that is, married couples are counted as one and their incomes combined.

  2 Based on numbers of tax units liable to pay tax under the indexed 1978–79 regime; this is 850,000 more than the number paying tax in 1987–88.

  North Sea Oil (Revenue)
  Mr. Mullin
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will give details of the North Sea oil revenue received by the Treasury for each year since 1979.
  570
  Mr. Norman Lamont
  [pursuant to the reply, 23 July 1987]: The latest figures for Government revenues from United Kingdom oil and gas production in each year from 1979–80 are as follows:

  £ million

  Royalties

  Petroleum Revenue Tax1

  Corporation Tax before ACT set-off

  Supplementary Petroleum Duty

  1979–80

  628

  1,435

  250

  —

  1980–81

  992

  2,410

  341

  —

  1981–82

  1,396

  2,390

  681

  2,025

  1982–83

  1,632

  3,274

  521

  2,395

  1983–84

  1,904

  6,017

  877

  —

  1984–85

  2,426

  7,177

  2,425

  —

  1985–86

  2,057

  6,375

  2,911

  —

  1986–87

  918

  1,188

  2,692

  —

  1 Including advance payments.

  War Pensions (Taxation)
  Mr. Corbett
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what estimate he has made of the cost of disregarding for tax purposes war pensions received by (a) those under 65 years and (b) those over 65 years; and what estimate he has made of the numbers in each category.

  Mr. Norman Lamont
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: I regret that the information is not readily available and could only be provided at disproportionate cost.

  Mr. Frank Field
  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will provide figures comparable to those given to the right hon. Member for Bethnal Green and Stepney (Mr. Shore), Official Report, 17 July, of the weekly earnings after tax, national insurance and child benefit at (a) actual prices and (b) constant prices at April of (i) a single person, (ii) a married couple, (iii) a married couple with two children under 11 years of age and (iv) a married couple with four children, two under 11 years of age and one between 11 to 15 years of age and one over 16 years of age, whose gross earnings are not (1) lowest decile, (2) lowest quartile, (3) median, (4) upper quartile, and (5) highest decile for April 1979 under the June 1979 tax-benefit regime at April 1987.

  Mr. Norman Lamont
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: The information requested cannot be estimated until the results of the 1987 "New Earnings Survey", which provides the detailed earnings distribution, become available towards the end of the year.

FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS

  Namibia
  Mr. Matthew Taylor
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what initiatives he intends to take, along with the United Kingdom's European allies, to secure the independence of Namibia.

  Mrs. Chalker
  We remain fully committed to the United Nations Security Council resolution 435, the only internationally agreed basis for Namibian independence, and shall continue to support United Nations and United States efforts to achieve a negotiated solution.

  Disarmament
  Mr. Flynn
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make it his policy to initiate nuclear disarmament negotiations under the stipulated provisions of article VI of the 1968 nuclear non-proliferation treaty.

  Mr. Mellor
  Article VI of the non-proliferation treaty requires each of the parties to pursue negotiations in good faith on effective measures relating to the cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date and to nuclear disarmament, and on a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control.

  The fact that there are presently no nuclear arms control negotiations in which the United Kingdom participates does not imply lack of good faith on our part. As the House knows, we support the objectives of the current US/Soviet nuclear and space talks.

  Mr. Amess
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the current situation of the MBFR talks.

  Mr. Mellor
  We continue to take a full and active part in the negotiations in Vienna on mutual and balanced force reductions. Progress has been disappointing owing to the unwillingness of the Warsaw pact to provide adequate data on force levels or to respond to Western proposals on verification. We shall continue to press the Warsaw pact to respond positively to the Western proposal of December 1985 in which we made a constructive attempt to break the long-standing deadlock by offering to accept reductions in the United States and Soviet troops before agreement on force levels.

  Mr. Flynn
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what nuclear disarmament negotiations have been undertaken within the provisions of article VI of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty (a) since its inception and (b) since May 1979.

  Mr. Mellor
  The following nuclear arms control negotiations have been undertaken since the nuclear non-proliferation treaty entered into force in 1970:

  (1) Since 1970, seabed arms control treaty; strategic arms limitation talks (I and II) including the 1972 anti-ballistic missile treaty; threshold test ban treaty; treaty on peaceful nuclear explosions; 1977–1980 trilateral (USA/United Kingdom/USSR) negotiations on a comprehensive test ban treaty.

  (2) Since May 1979, 1981–83 Geneva intermediate nuclear force talks; 1982–83 Geneva START talks; 1985—present nuclear and space talks.

  Torture
  Mrs. Dunwoody
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when the United Kingdom is to ratify the United Nations Convention Against Torture.

  Mr. Eggar
  As I told the House on 5 February 1986, we intend to ratify the convention as soon as possible but we need first to ensure that our current legislation and other arrangements accord with its provisions. For example, the convention would require us in certain circumstances to take jurisdiction over acts of torture committed abroad. Legislation is necessary to ensure that 572
  our courts have power to try such cases and to deal with other points arising from the convention before we can ratify it.

  Death Penalty
  Mrs. Dunwoody
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when Her Majesty's Government will ratify the sixth protocol of the European human rights convention committing the United Kingdom to abolishing the death penalty for peacetime offences.

  Mrs. Chalker
  The United Kingdom abolished the death penalty for most offences in 1965. Since the question of capital punishment is debated by the House at not infrequent intervals, we have taken the view that it would not be appropriate to sign and ratify the sixth protocol on the basis of any one particular vote of the House on the issue.

  Iranian Arms Procurement Office
  Mr. Robertson
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what action he intends to take about the Iranian arms procurement office at 4 Victoria Street, London SW1, in the light of the vote of the United Nations Security Council calling for a ceasefire between Iran and Iraq.

  Mr. Mellor
  We do not believe any action concerning the Iranian military procurement offices in London is appropriate in the light of the recent Security Council resolution on Iran/Iraq. We are supporting the United Nations Secretary-General's attempts to ensure compliance with the resolution.

  Colonel R. F. Crowther
  Mr. Caborn
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the circumstances surrounding the withdrawal of Colonel R. F. Crowther as armed forces attaché of South Africa in the United Kingdom.

  Mrs. Chalker
  Colonel R. F. Crowther relinquished his duties as the South African armed forces attaché on 17 July on completion of his tour of duty in London.

  Mr. Caborn
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs on what date Colonel R. F. Crowther took up the post of South Africa's armed forces attaché to the United Kingdom; and on what date he ceased to hold this post.

  Mrs. Chalker
  Colonel R. F. Crowther assumed his duties as the South African armed forces attaché on 18 June 1984; he relinquished them on 17 July 1987.

  Mr. Caborn
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make it his policy to refuse to grant credentials to any replacement for Colonel R. F. Crowther as the armed forces attaché of South Africa; and if he will make a statement.

  Mrs. Chalker
  As the House knows, we have already agreed with our European partners not to grant accreditation to military attachés from South Africa. In accordance with that policy, the South Africans were informed on 22 July that we would not grant accreditation to a proposed successor for Colonel Crowther.
  573
  Mr. Caborn
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs on what date Colonel R. F. Crowther, the outgoing armed forces attaché in the United Kingdom for South Africa, left the United Kingdom; and when his Department became aware of his impending departure.

  Mrs. Chalker
  The South African embassy informed us on 3 July 1987 that Colonel Crowther would be relinquishing his duties in London on 17 July. He left the United Kingdom on that day.

  Belau
  Ms. Ruddock
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what is Her Majesty's Government's response to the outcome of the eighth plebiscite of the Belauan people on the retention of their 1979 constitution; and what assessment he has made of the extent to which the two further referendums to be held in August relating to United States proposals for defence are consistent with the duties imposed on the United Kingdom and the United States by the creation of the United Nations Strategic Trust Territory which includes Belau (Petan).

  Mr. Eggar
  A plebiscite was held in Belau (Palau) on 30 June 1987 on the terms of a compact of free association between Belau (Palau) and the United States. It was monitored by a United Nations observer mission chaired by the United Kingdom. We are awaiting the mission's report. The referenda which the Belau (Palau) Government propose to hold in August concern an amendment to the Belauan (Palauan) constitution, and the terms of the compact of free association. Under article 83 of the United Nations charter responsibility for exercising the functions of the United Nations relating to strategic trust territories belongs to the Security Council, with the assistance of the Trusteeship Council.

  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (1) if the United Nations department of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has held any discussions with the United States State Department as to the conduct of the referendum of 6 December in the United Nations Trust Territory of Belau;

  (2) whether Her Majesty's Government will be sending official observers to monitor the conduct of the referendum on 6 December in the United Nations Trust Territory of Belau;

  (3) whether the United Kingdom representative on the Trusteeship Council will be taking part in the observer delegation sent by the Trusteeship Council to monitor the conduct of the December 6 referendum in the United Nations Trust Territory of Belau;

  (4) what is Her Majesty's Government's policy on the referendum taking place in the United Nations Trust Territory of Belau on 6 December.

  Mr. Eggar
  We are not aware that any referendum is to be held in Belau (Palau) on 6 December 1987.

  Embassies and Consular Offices
  Mr. Amess
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will give the cost involved in maintaining embassies and consular offices for each of the past five years.
  574
  Mr. Eggar
  The cost to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office of maintaining its 207 posts overseas (including high commissions and missions to international organisations and conferences as well as embassies and consular posts) for each of the past five years is as follows:

  £ million

  1983–84

  188·5

  1984–85

  215·6

  1985–86

  216·2

  1986–87

  250·5

  1987–88

  271·0

  Analysis of expenditure for 1986–87 is still proceeding. The figure for 1987–88 is an estimate.

  Mr. Amess
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on measures taken to improve embassy security in countries with volatile political systems.

  Mr. Eggar
  The threat to security at all our missions overseas is under constant review. Additional measures are implemented as necessary to protect individuals, classified information, offices and residences. For security reasons, it is not our practice to reveal specific details about measures taken in particular posts.

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what is the estimated expenditure of his Department in the current year on management and computer consultancy.

  Mr. Eggar
  The estimated expenditure for the current financial year on management and computer consultancy is as follows. The figures include expenditure for both the diplomatic and aid wings of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

  £

  Management Consultancy

  255,000

  Computer Consultancy

  1,020,000

  Helsinki Final Act
  Mr. Forth
  asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a further statement on progress with the implementation by the Union of Soviet Republics and Eastern European countries of the provisions of the Helsinki final act during the last six months.

  Mr. Mellor
  During the last six months to 30 June 1987, Soviet and East European implementation of their Helsinki commitments took on special significance in the light of the third CSCE follow-up meeting currently under way in Vienna and the restructuring taking place in the Soviet Union. Overall, compliance with CSCE commitments continued to be unsatisfactory, in particular as regards breaches of the provisions relating to human rights and fundamental freedoms, although the record also continued to vary from country to country.

  SECURITY IN EUROPE: PRINCIPLES GUIDING RELATIONS BETWEEN PARTICIPATING STATES; CONFIDENCE-BUILDING MEASURES AND CERTAIN ASPECTS OF SECURITY AND DISARMAMENT (BASKET I)
  575
  Violation of human rights and fundamental freedoms covered by principle VII, including freedom of thought, conscience, religion or belief continued.

  In the Soviet Union, however, the period was marked by a number of positive developments. A significant number of prisoners convicted under the most frequently used "political" articles of the Soviet penal code on anti-Soviet agitation and propaganda and anti-Soviet slander were released early under the terms of unpublished decrees. Permission to emigrate was also granted to some former political prisoners, for instance, Dr. Anatoly Koryagin, who had served half his 12-year sentence for his opposition to Soviet abuse of psychiatry; Sergei Khodorovich, who had served four years in a Labour camp after arranging charity for political prisoners and their families; and former members of the Moscow Helsinki group Tatyana Osipova and her husband Ivan Kovalev. By June the numbers of those released had risen to some 160, although at least 500 more prisoners of conscience were thought to be still serving sentences, including about 180 in mental hospitals.

  Those whose sentences were curtailed were not, however, released through an amnesty (in contrast to some of the remaining prisoners of conscience who are expected to be among the beneficiaries of a formal amnesty announced in June in honour of the 70th anniversary of the October revolution). Most were compelled to sign undertakings and several who refused continued to serve their sentences. Well-known political prisoners not released included those sentenced to the harshest category of camps ("special regime") like the Estonian Mart Niklus; Viktoras Petkus and Balys Gajauskas of the Lithuanian Helsinki group; and Levko Lukyanenko and Mikhailo Horyn of the Ukrainian Helsinki group. Only a handful of political victims of psychiatric abuse have so far been released.

  There was a welcome and steady increase in numbers of Jews allowed to emigrate. However, fears were expressed by many Jewish refuseniks that the new regulations on entering and leaving the Soviet Union which came into force at the beginning of the year would restrict applications to those with only the closest family members abroad—as stipulated. This would render most of those wishing to leave ineligible to apply. The Jewish community also continued to face difficulties in practising its religion and culture and confiscation of religious material from the homes of Soviet Jews, particularly of refuseniks, continued. Most of the best-known Jewish prisoners of conscience were released; however the Hebrew teacher Alexei Magarik remained imprisoned.

  Arrests of Christian believers diminished in the period under review and a number of Baptists and other religious activists were among those released ahead of term. Humanitarian considerations, however, were not always manifest. One baptist who continues to serve his sentence, for example, is 65-year-old N. Boiko, who is now partly paralysed.

  There was increased discussion of religious issues in the Soviet press. The Soviet weekly Literary Gazette revealed in May that the number of registered mosques (365) was far from adequate for the needs of Muslim believers: as a result more than 1,800 unofficial mosques were operating. It was suggested that at least some of these should be legalised. Other articles in the Soviet press took up the complaints of believers against the arbitrariness of local authorities, for example, in registering places of worship.
  576
  Side by side with these developments, however, standard calls for a stepping-up of atheist indoctrination and press attacks on individual religious activists continued to be published. The tiny — if growing — Hare Krishna movement in the USSR continued to be a prime target for such attacks. Several of its members, including one of its founders Anatoly Pinyaev, remained in mental hospitals or imprisoned. His fellow adherent, V. Kustrya was sentenced in March to a further three years under the terms of a retrograde 1983 law.

  Officials in some non-Russian areas (such as Byelorussia and Moldavia) have continued to criticise and resist attempts to promote local languages and cultures against Russian inroads.

  Bulgarian implementation of CSCE commitments changed little over the last six months and the positive developments in the Soviet Union did not trigger any similar changes. Bulgarian interest in the CSCE still concentrated on security issues, whilst principle VII on respect for human rights and fundamental freedom was largely flouted. The practice of religion remained difficult for the non-orthodox denominations, with the Muslim faith particularly severely affected and many mosques remaining closed. Restrictions on attendance at Muslim. services and festivals and prohibitions on certain Muslim practices continued. The general situation of the Turkish minority in Bulgaria remained profoundly unsatisfactory, with reports suggesting that the Bulgarian authorities had begun dispersing the Turkish population within Bulgaria by moving a number of families into predominantly Slav areas. Speaking Turkish continued to be forbidden as was listening to Turkish radio broadcast, with non-compliance resulting in heavy fines.

  There was a slight improvement in Czechoslovakia's overall implementation of CSCE provisions, but with regression in some areas. Principle VII continued to be disregarded. The authorities continued to keep a wary eye on religious activists and to hinder the work of the churches. Sentences were pronounced in a number of important political trials during the period. In March, 5 members of the Jazz Section Committee, arrested in September 1986, were sentenced to varying terms of imprisonment (some suspended), supposedly for illegal trading and tax fraud. In May, brothers Pavel and Jiri Wonka were sentenced to 21 and 12 months imprisonment respectively for "incitement", relating to Pavel Wonka's attempt to stand as a parliamentary candidate. The Committee for the Defence of the Unjustly Prosecuted (VONS) continued to be the target of repressive action. The security services persisted in their efforts to prevent contacts between dissidents and Western officials. Despite this, in February my hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Sussex (Mr. Renton), then Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, was able to hold meetings with certain Charter 77 signatories and members of the Jazz Section. Three Western journalists were admitted to the Jazz Section trial, and some Western diplomats to other human rights trials, representing a significant, if limited, improvement on past practice.

  The GDR's implementation record during the last six months was mixed. The increase in the numbers of those below pensionable age allowed to visit the West seen in 1986 was by and large maintained. But the GDR authorities continued to refuse many applications to visit the West or to emigrate; and to create difficulties for citizens seeking information about human rights or

  577
  Western contacts. Regrettably the GDR's policies have so far prevented the 750th anniversary of Berlin being an occasion for greater contacts between those living in both parts of the city. The GDR's basic policy of preventing the bulk of the population from travelling to the West and shooting at individuals who try to cross the Berlin wall and inner-German border was unchanged.

  Hungary remained the most open of the Eastern European countries and its record of compliance with CSCE commitments was the best. Church-State relations remained harmonious. Freedom of expression was still restricted, with limited selective action against vocal critics. However, there was a move towards greater openness in the workings of the Government, with the appointment of a Government spokesman.

  The improvement in Poland's human rights record initiated by the clemency law of July 1986 which led to the release of political prisoners in September 1986 was sustained. No further prison sentences for political offences were imposed. Instead the authorities dealt with political offences through the use of heavy fines and confiscation of property. However, trade union pluralism remained illegal and freedom of association seriously circumscribed. There was no change in the freedom allowed to Poles to practise religion, and meetings continued between Church and state within the established framework. In addition, the Pope visited Poland in June and made a number of firm statements in support of human rights. In spite of censorship, the level of real press debate remained relatively high.

  Romania's poor record on implementation of the final act was unrelieved. There was no freedom to express dissenting views and the press continued to be heavily circumscribed. During Mr. Gorbachev's visit to Romania, seven Western journalists were refused admission to the country. Religious freedom continued to be restricted, with non-conforming groups and individuals liable to harassment and arrest. Cultural facilities for national minorities were not freely available. Travel remained difficult for all and contacts with foreigners were discouraged.

  CONFIDENCE AND SECURITY-BUILDING MEASURES

  Warsaw pact countries complied fairly strictly with the commitments entered into in September 1986 with the adoption of the Stockholm document. Certain countries even supplied more information than was required by the document. For one combined exercise with Czechoslovakia ("Druzhba '87") the Soviet Union provided notification even though its participation was below the relevant threshold. During the period under review the United Kingdom sent observers to four exercises: the Czechoslovak exercise Zima from 2 to 6 February; a Polish exercise from 9 to 14 March; and two joint GDR/Soviet exercises which took place in the GDR from 23 to 30 March and 10 to 16 April.

  CO-OPERATION IN THE FIELD OF ECONOMICS, OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY AND OF THE ENVIRONMENT (BASKET II)

  There were a number of interesting developments in the Soviet Union in this period, such as the proclaimed reorganisation of the Soviet foreign trade apparatus through the introduction of a small degree of decentralisation; the adoption of a law allowing joint ventures in the Soviet Union; and the publication of a draft law on the state enterprise allowing for a greater degree of self-financing and self-administration at the factory level. A new United Kingdom-Soviet chamber of
  578
  commerce opened in Moscow in March. But in general there was virtually no improvement in the conditions for Western business men in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union. Day-to-day annoyances, such as inadequate and expensive housing and the lack of sufficient telephone and telecommunications installations, persisted. There was no discernible improvement in the provision of economic and commercial data, and the lack of reliable statistical information continued to hinder business analyses. There was a growing awareness in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe of the importance of environmental issues. In the Soviet Union in particular this resulted in a number of concrete measures such as the abandonment of plans to reverse the flow of the Siberian rivers and the conversion or closure of polluting factories. However, much remains to be done.

  CO-OPERATION IN HUMANITARIAN AND OTHER FIELDS (BASKET III)

  During the last six months there was a considerable increase in travel between Eastern countries, as well as easier availability of visas for visits to relatives in the West in most cases — most notably in the GDR. The publication of new Soviet emigration regulations in January also clarified the position for Soviet citizens wanting to travel abroad, particularly in family reunification cases, although there was much criticism of the content from would-be emigrants. Arbitrary decisions continued to be made and difficult cases usually remained unresolved, including those where the Soviet authorities continued, dubiously, to allege state security as grounds for refusal. In Czechoslovakia, family visits in either direction remained unsatisfactory. Romania continued to discourage contacts with foreigners, with marriage applications inordinately delayed. Restrictions remained in force in nearly all Warsaw pact countries on individuals wishing to visit the West, as well as on access to Western diplomatic missions. In Bulgaria there was ample evidence that those who entered Western missions or had contact with Western diplomats suffered as a consequence.

  Developments in Mr. Gorbachev's policy of "glasnost" led to increasing amounts of information coming from Moscow. There were more press conferences and improvements in the quality of press, radio and television reporting, including uncensored TV interviews with senior Western spokesmen (such as with my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister in March) and the publication of articles by Western statesmen and journalists, generally accompanied by critical Soviet commentaries. On the whole, however, the work of the media remained under close supervision and Western non-Communist publications continued to be virtually unobtainable. Jamming of the BBC Russian service and Voice of America ceased; but it continued in other cases, for example, BBC Polish service broadcasts on shortwave. In early June, East German police brutally beat up West German journalists who had been seeking to observe incidents in east Berlin in which the police had prevented crowds of young people from gathering near the Wall to listen to pop concerts taking place on the Western side.

  CO-OPERATION AND EXCHANGES IN THE FIELD OF CULTURE AND EDUCATION

  Many Eastern European countries expressed a renewed desire for closer cultural co-operation. Routine exchanges were generally satisfactory, impeded only by occasional bureaucratic constraints. There was much evidence of a loosening up of exchanges with Hungary outside the rigid

  579
  quotas of the cultural exchanges programme and the period was marked by the signing in March by my right hon. and learned Friend during his visit to Budapest of an agreement on co-operation in the fields of education, culture, science and technology.

  A United Kingdom/Soviet memorandum of under-standing concerning new directions in co-operation in the fields of information, culture and education was also signed in March, during the visit of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister to the Soviet Union, reflecting the interest in both countries in increasing the volume and variety of cultural exchanges, and opening doors to increased cultural exchange outside the confines of the biennial agreement on relations in the scientific, educational and cultural fields. While primarily a facilitating document, this also contained a number of specific commitments to which the Soviet Union had not previously subscribed in documents of this kind. Although Soviet insistence on strict reciprocity was a continuing difficulty, the period as a whole saw the development of encouraging and positive trends in these areas.

CHURCH COMMISSIONERS

  Elderly Clergymen
  Mr. William Powell
  asked the right hon. Member for Selby, as representing the Church Commissioners what policy is adopted towards the payment of stipends to incumbent clergymen aged over 70 years.

  Mr. Alison
  The Commissioners' general recommendation is that their stipend should be set at such a level as to ensure that from all sources, including the state pension for a single person (whether the incumbent concerned is single or married), they receive an income not less than the recommended national minimum stipend. It is then for the diocese to determine the stipend level in each individual case in the light of this recommendation.

  Mr. William Powell
  asked the right hon. Member for Selby, as representing the Church Commissioners, how many incumbent clergymen are over 70 years old.

  Mr. Alison
  Ninety-eight at 30 June 1987.

THE ARTS

  Paintings (Damage)
  Mr. David Nicholson
  asked the Minister for the Arts if he will list the occasions in the last 10 years that paintings in the United Kingdom's major art galleries have been criminally damaged; what estimates exist of the repairs then made necessary; what were the names of the persons consequently convicted; and what penalties or treatment resulted.

  Mr. Luce
  I regret that it has not been possible to provide an answer before the summer recess; therefore, I shall write to my hon. Friend and place a copy of the letter in the Library.

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Minister for the Arts what is the estimated expenditure of the Office of Arts and Libraries in the current year on management and computer consultancy.
  580
  Mr. Luce
  I regret that it has not been possible to provide an answer before the summer recess; therefore, I shall write to my hon. Friend and place a copy of the letter in the Library.

  Expenditure
  Mr. Amess
  asked the Minister for the Arts if he will make a statement on measures to encourage the arts in regions outside London.

  Mr. Luce
  I am concerned to ensure that excellence in the arts is accessible in all parts of the country. In the past three years, the Arts Council has instituted a number of regional developments in pursuance of its "Glory of the Garden" policies; the funding of the regional arts associations has been increased, untill they now receive over £19 million a year from the council (exclusive of Greater London Arts) and they have, in conjunction with local authorities, provided arts facilities in every region; the British Film Institute has facilitated the opening of media centres in Cardiff and Manchester; national museums have established branches outside London; and the Museum and Galleries Commission has taken steps to support touring exhibitions of works of art.

  Museums and Galleries
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Minister for the Arts (1) if he will list any expenditure by his Department on museums and galleries for each year since 1979 other than on the national museum and Museums and Galleries Commission;

  (2) if he will list his Department's expenditure on the Museums and Galleries Commission and its predecessor in every year since 1979; and if he will show how much was allocated to each of the seven English area museum councils and, within the area museum council for the south-east to the London museum service;

  (3) if he will list his Department's expenditure on (a) the operating costs, (b) the capital costs and (c) the purchase grants of each of the national museums for which he is responsible since 1979.

  Mr. Luce
  I regret that it has not been possible to provide an answer before the summer recess; therefore, I shall write to the hon. Member and place a copy of the letter in the Library.

SCOTLAND

  School Placements
  Mr. Galbraith
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has had from parents complaining about school placements and seeking changes in the relevant legislation.

  Mr. Michael Forsyth
  I refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave him on 15 July 1987. I receive many representations about placing requests from parents, some of whom seek changes in legislation.

  Rural Workshops
  Mr. Steel
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland (1) if he will make a statement on the future of the development of rural workshops scheme administered by

  581
  the Scottish Development Agency, with particular reference to the funds allocated and the number of applications which have been rejected due to inadequate funding;

  (2) what representations he has received on the level of funding of the development of rural workshops scheme administered by the Scottish Development Agency;

  (3) what policies his Department is pursuing to encourage the conversion or extension of buildings in rural areas to create workshops.

  Mr. Rilkind
  The development of rural area workshops scheme was launched by the Scottish Development Agency in November/ December 1984 for a pilot period of two years with an annual budget of £300,000. The scheme, which was aimed at encouraging the provision of workshop accommodation in rural areas, proved so popular that on two subsequent occasions the budget was, with ministerial approval, increased so that over the pilot period a total of some £1·3 million has been allocated by the agency to the scheme. As agreed at the scheme's inception it, together with the agency's programme for rural initiatives and developments scheme, was the subject of a review at the end of the pilot period to determine how best future needs might be met. The consultants' report of the review of both schemes has been under consideration, and my officials and the agency are currently discussing possible successor arrangements. These discussions are still at an early stage and it would not be appropriate for me to comment on them. I understand from the agency that no applications have been rejected due to insufficient funding but that some are being held in abeyance pending a decision on future arrangements. I have received one representation on the level of funding for the scheme.

  Maryhill Jobcentre
  Mrs. Fyfe
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the total of vacancies available at Maryhill jobcentre on 8 May.

  Mr. Lang
  Vacancy statistics for Maryhill jobcentre are included with those notified to Glasgow, West jobcentre: separate figures for Maryhill are not obtainable.

  On 8 May 1987 the number of vacancies notified, and remaining unfilled, at Glasgow, West jobcentre totalled 741. On the same date a further 402 community programme vacancies had been notified to the jobcentre.

  This information is available in the Library.

  Labour Statistics
  Mrs. Fyfe
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will list the unemployment levels in Maryhill constituency for the current period and at the same time for each year since 1979, giving separate totals for males, females and school-leavers under 18 years.

  Mr. Lang
  Unemployment statistics for parliamentary constituencies did not become available until the introduction of electoral ward-based data in June 1983. The numbers of male and female unemployed claimants in the Glasgow, Maryhill constituency, and the equivalent figures for school-leavers under 18 years of age, in June each year from 1983 to 1987, are shown in the table:
  582

  All Unemployed Claimants

  Unemployed School leavers under 18 (included in All Unemployed)

  Male

  Female

  Total

  Male

  Female

  Total

  1983

  5,382

  1,824

  7,206

  210

  190

  400

  1984

  5,359

  1,906

  7,265

  201

  169

  370

  1985

  5,755

  2,057

  7,812

  193

  150

  343

  1986

  5,882

  2,087

  7,969

  214

  188

  402

  1987

  5,773

  1,971

  7,744

  192

  145

  337

  These figures are not comparable because of changes in the basis of the count.

  The information is available in the Library.

  Mr. McAllion
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what are the seasonally adjusted unemployment figures for Scotland and the Dundee travel-to-work area for the last available date, and figures in May 1979, June 1983 and June 1987, compiled on a similar basis.

  Mr. Lang
  On a comparable basis, seasonally adjusted unemployment in Scotland was 333,600 in June 1987, 308,200 in June 1983 and 150,400 in May 1979. I regret that corresponding figures for the Dundee travel-to-work area cannot be provided since seasonally adjusted unemployment figures are not available below Scotland level.

  Mr. Gordon Brown
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will list for (a) each postal code district and (b) each local authority ward the numbers unemployed in June 1983 and June 1987.

  Mr. Lang
  I shall write to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

  Departmental Staff
  Mrs. Fyfe
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has a target for achieving a greater representation of women at all levels of jobs held in his Department.

  Mr. Rifkind
  My Department, like other Government Departments, has a policy of equal opportunities for men and women: I have not set any specific target for the representation of women.

  A7 Trunk Route
  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the cause and extent of any delay in the contract undertaken by the Scottish Development Department to demolish Nos. 3 and 4 Sandbed to make way for a new traffic roundabout in the A7 trunk route through Hawick; what penalties attach to the contractors responsible for any delay; and whether he can now give a completion date for the project.

  Lord James Douglas-Hamilton
  The demolition of 3 and 4 Sandbed, Hawick, has been unavoidably delayed because of work associated with the resiting of public utilities. No penalties are involved and this work is now completed. The contractor responsible for the road works and demolition of the buildings will begin on site in August, with completion of the scheme due in November 1987. The demolition of the buildings will be carried out at the beginning of this contract.

  School Transport
  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will list in the Official Report those local education

  583
  authorities in Scotland which exercise their discretion under section 51(1) of the Education (Scotland) Act 1980 and provide free school transport for school pupils who live within the statutory walking distance from school, together with the walking distance used to determine the right to a free lift in each case.

  Mr. Michael Forsyth
  The information taken from the annual survey of school transport undertaken in September 1986 is as follows:—

  Authority and Criteria used

  Fife and Lothian

  More than 2 miles for all pupils.

  Central

  1 mile—under 8 years.

  2 miles—8 years and over.

  Strathclyde

  More than 1 mile—primary.

  More than 2 miles—secondary.

  In addition each authority exercises its discretion by providing free transport within the statutory walking distance in special circumstances eg. safety or medical reasons.

  Farm Grants
  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has yet completed his inquiry into the simultaneous award of farm grants to enhance the agricultural value of the same farmland at Houpasley at Roberton for which forestry approval for tree planting has been given; and if he will make a statement.

  Lord James Douglas-Hamilton
  Investigations into this matter are not yet complete. My right hon. and learned Friend will write to the hon. Member as soon as he is in a position to do so.

  Scottish Development Agency
  Mr. Gordon Brown
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how much has been spent by the Scottish Development Agency in each year since 1979 (a) in the Dunfermline, East constituency and (b) in Fife in the following areas: (i) environmental improvement, (ii) industrial investment, (iii) advance factory building and (iv) total spending; and if he will express these figures as a percentage of spending by the Scottish Development Agency in Scotland.

  Mr. Lang
  I shall write to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

  Torness Power Station
  Mr. Home Robertson
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the loading of nuclear fuel at Torness power station and on contingency plans to deal with accidents at Torness, including the area of the emergency evacuation zone; and if he will list those responsible for protecting and informing the public.

  Mr. Lang
  Her Majesty's Nuclear Installations Inspectorate granted consent to the South of Scotland Electricity Board on Manday 20 July to allow fuel loading in the first reactor at Torness. I am advised by the Board that fuel loading has commenced.

  The inspectorate has also approved the emergency arrangements, including arrangements for evacuation within 3 km of the site, in terms of the site licensing requirements. Action for the protection and notification
  584
  of the public in the event of an accident is a matter for Lothian and Borders police, based upon advice from the board or the Government technical adviser if one is appointed.

  Scottish Special Housing Association
  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will undertake a review of the charges imposed by the Scottish Special Housing Association on owner-occupiers who purchase houses from the association, for the upkeep of amenity areas in the vicinity of houses; whether he will consider the possibility of assimulating these charges into general rate-borne expenditure; and if he will make a statement.

  Lord James Douglas-Hamilton
  These charges arise from a condition included in the sale agreement under which former tenants of the Association have purchased their houses and the Scottish Development Department already keeps in touch with the Association on this matter. No review is therefore necessary. It is for district councils to decide whether they wish to assume responsibility for such amenity areas in the light of authorities' priorities and the resources available to them.

  Prisoners
  Mr. Dewar
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many of the people presently in prison in Scotland have a last known address in a psychiatric hospital.

  Mr. Rifkind
  Information on prisoners' last known addresses is not held centrally and could not be obtained except at disproportionate expense.

  A74
  Mr. Dewar
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when the work on upgrading the A74 road will start; and when the work will be completed.

  Mr. Rifkind
  The timetable for implementing the upgrading of the A74 to motorway standard will depend on detailed studies still to be carried out, and on the time taken to complete any necessary statutory procedures.

  Mr. Dewar
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the estimated cost of upgrading the A74 road to motorway standard.

  Mr. Rifkind
  At present the cost is estimated to be about £200 million, but more precise estimates will be made in due course.

  Mr. Dewar
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to what extent the upgrading of the A74 road to motorway standard will involve a new line of route; and how much land will have to be purchased for this purpose.

  Mr. Rifkind
  Feasibility studies will shortly be commissioned to assess the best way of implementing this project. Until these have been carried out it is not possible to determine whether the best solution is upgrading on the existing road alignment or building on a new alignment. That choice will affect the land requirements.

  Mr. Forth
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will give the total cost of the A74 upgrading and the reason for that upgrading; and if he will make a statement.

  Lord James Douglas-Hamilton
  At present the cost is estimated to be about £200 million, but more precise
  585
  estimates will be made once detailed studies have been carried out. The A74 is to be upgraded to motorway because it is the Government's policy to improve key roads and the A74 is Scotland's main link with the south.

  Mr. Forth
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the design capacity of the upgraded A74; and what is the current traffic volume.

  Lord James Douglas-Hamilton
  The design capacity of a rural two-lane motorway is 54,000 vehicles per day. The current daily traffic volume on the A74 in Scotland is some 19,000 vehicles. However the normal threshold figure for considering provision of a motorway is 28,000 vehicles per day in a design year 15 years after completion. Current projections for the A74 exceed this figure.

  Street Lighting
  Mr. Robertson
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will arrange for his Department to publicise the merits of better and more modern street lighting as a means of dealing with street crime; and if he will make a statement.

  Lord James Douglas-Hamilton
  The British Standards Institution is currently reviewing all road lighting standards. A working party of the Institution is preparing a code of practice concerned with lighting for urban centres and other public amenity areas. I understand that aspects of security and safety are being taken into account in drafting the code.

  A1
  Mr. Home Robertson
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will initiate a comprehensive review of safety and other factors on the A1 road between Edinburgh and the English border, involving consultation with local communities and road users; and if he will publish a report on Her Majesty's Government's plans for the future development of that road.

  Lord James Douglas-Hamilton
  The safety of the A1, and of all other Scottish trunk roads, is continuously under review. All potential accident black spots are automatically inspected and, when necessary, remedial work is carried out. As to future plans, consultants are currently examining roads south of Edinburgh with a view to recommending a route strategy. I shall make an announcement about their findings in due course.

  Disabled Persons (Services, Consultation and Representation) Act 1986
  Mr. Tom Clarke
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he next expects to meet the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to discuss the implementation of the Disabled Persons (Services, Consultation and Representation) Act 1986.

  Mr. Michael Forsyth
  At present I have no plans to meet the convention on this subject. My Department has been in touch with officials of the Convention about provisions proposed for implementation in the current financial year and further discussions will be held in due course.

  National Health Service (Amendment) Act 1986
  Mr. Tom Clarke
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to meet the Scottish Society for
  586
  the Mentally Handicapped and other appropriate voluntary organisations to discuss the implementation of the National Health Service (Amendment) Act 1986 in respect of joint planning provisions.

  Mr. Michael Forsyth
  We have made clear our preference for a voluntary system of joint planning and my right hon. and learned Friend has no plans at present to introduce mandatory arrangements. We are, however closely monitoring progress on the preparation of joint plans and Health Boards are aware of the need to complete outstanding plans as quickly as possible.

  Exercises (Gartcosh)
  Mr. Tom Clarke
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the nature of the police and public sector exercises in Gartcosh, Lanarkshire, in the week beginning Monday 13 July; what were the costs involved; what steps were taken to inform the public in advance; and if he will make a statement.

  Lord James Douglas-Hamilton
  A routine exercise to test contingency plans for emergency incidents was held by Strathclyde Police at Gartcosh over the period 7–11 July. Final costs are not yet to hand but I understand from the Chief Constable that the police budget for the exercise, which is unlikely to be exceeded, was £20,000. The costs of those Government Departments which were involved have not been separately assessed.

  I further understand from the Chief Constable that prior notice of the exercise was given to householders in the immediate vicinity of the site but that one of the lessons learnt is that intimation could have been wider.

  Hospitality
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how much has been spent by his Department on official hospitality in each of the last two financial years.

  Mr. Rifkind
  The amounts spent were as follows:

  1985–86

  1986–87

  £

  £

  35,815

  38,315

  Banff and Buchan District Council
  Mr. Salmond
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what grant penalty he intends to impose on Banff and Buchan district council; by how much its budgeted expenditure for 1987–88 is below the expenditure need. assessment for the authority; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Lang
  The grant penalty for Banff and Buchan is set out in the Rate Support Grant (Scotland) (No. 2) Order 1987 which the House approved on 20 July, and is £81,384, arising from a budgeted overspend against guideline of £81,000. The Council's budgeted expenditure for 1987–88 is £512,000 below its assessment of relative expenditure need, but 11·2 per cent. above its expenditure in 1986–87, a substantial growth in real terms. If the Council brings its expenditure down to guideline at outturn the penalty will be restored to it.

  Electricity Generation
  Mr. Corbett
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland by what amount available electricity generated in Scotland exceeds normal demand.

  Mr. Lang
  I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave yesterday.

  Abortions
  Ms. Richardson
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland (1) if he will list the numbers of National Health

  Health Board

  All abortions in Great Britain on women resident in Scotland1

  NHS abortions in Scotland1

  Estimated female population aged 15–44 at 30 June 1986

  Argyll and Clyde

  711

  591

  97,277

  Ayrshire and Arran

  628

  555

  81,227

  Borders

  137

  134

  20,711

  Dumfries and Galloway

  279

  225

  30,097

  Fife

  682

  661

  74,941

  Forth Valley

  494

  450

  59,982

  Grampian

  1,199

  1,135

  113,004

  Greater Glasgow

  1,913

  1,620

  207,651

  Highland

  458

  434

  43,210

  Islands2

  98

  95

  14,749

  Lanarkshire

  877

  720

  127,921

  Lothian

  1,772

  1,712

  170,102

  Tayside

  1,036

  1,010

  83,297

  1 Provisional.

  2 Orkney, Shetland and Western Isles.

  NHS Resources
  Mr. Galbraith
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will give the latest percentage estimates of the increased demand for National Health Service resources in Scotland due to demographic change for the years 1987–88, 1988–89 and 1989–90.

  Mr. Michael Forsyth
  The Government's expenditure plans for 1987–88 to 1989–90 allow an annual increase of 1 per cent. in provision made for hospital and community health services in Scotland to meet estimated demand growth caused by demographic changes and other factors. Health boards will also be expected to continue with their economy and efficiency programme which, in the current year, are expected to divert the equivalent of 1½ per cent. of revenue allocation into direct patient care.

  Historic Buildings
  Mr. Michael J. Martin
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what funds he made available to the National Trust for Scotland for the upkeep of historic buildings for the years 1983–84, 1984–85 and 1985–86.

  Lord James Douglas-Hamilton
  Maintenance Grants to the National Trust for Scotland were as follows:

  £

  1983–84

  87,189

  1984–85

  101,585

  1985–86

  115,000

  Babcocks
  Mr. Allen Adams
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what information was available to him, prior to
  588
  Service abortions performed in Scotland on women resident in each health board area in 1986 and the estimated numbers of women aged 15 to 44 years resident in each health board area in Scotland in mid-1986;

  (2) if he will list the numbers of legal abortions performed in Great Britain on women resident in each health board area in Scotland in 1986.

  Mr. Michael Forsyth
  Following is the information:

  the announcement on the takeover of FKI Electrical Group of Babcocks; what guarantees were (a) sought and (b) given on the maintenance of Babcocks' Scottish plant; what information he has as to the number of employees at Babcocks; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Lang
  My right hon. and learned Friend and I have received no prior information about the merger announcement. I understand that Babcock employs some 2,500 at Renfrew, Dumbarton and Paisley. The merger will be considered by the Director-General of Fair Trading, who will advise the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry on whether to refer the case to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission.

  Rating Reform
  Mr. Dewar
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he intends to lay the commencement order under the Abolition of Rates &c. (Scotland) Act 1987; what further orders subject to parliamentary procedure will be made in order to implement in full the Act over the next 12 months, and when; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Rifkind
  I intend that the commencement order should come into operation before the end of August. Details of the main groups of regulations to be made under the Act in the next few months were given by my hon. Friend the Member for Galloway and Upper Nithsdale (Mr. Lang) in the course of a debate on the implementation of the Act which took place on Monday 13 July [Official Report, column 876–77].

  Hospital Consultants
  Mr. Galbraith
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will take steps to procure information on the number of consultants, whole-time and part-time, in each specialty in each hospital in Scotland.

  Mr. Michael Forsyth
  I shall consider whether to enhance the information available in "Scottish Health Statistics" in the context of developing computerised personnel and manpower systems for health boards.

  Action on Smoking and Health
  Mr. Michael Brown
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what grant is currently paid by his Department to Action on Smoking and Health in the current year; what grant will be paid in the succeeding year; and when he last had a meeting with the organisation's officers.

  Mr. Michael Forsyth
  The Scottish Committee of Action on Smoking and Health will receive an annual grant-in-aid from the Scottish Home and Health Department of £31,000 in the current financial year. The level of grant for 1988–89 has still to be decided. Officials of the Scottish Home and Health Department met representatives of the Scottish Committee of Action on Smoking and Health on 6 June 1986. A further meeting is due to take place later this year.

  Mr. Michael Brown
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he has to transfer the funding of Action on Smoking and Health from public to private sources.

  Mr. Michael Forsyth
  My right hon. and learned Friend has no such plans at present.

  Health Boards
  Mr. Galbraith
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will give the National Health Service per capita expenditure for each of the health boards in Scotland, to include the charges retained by family practitioners.

  Mr. Michael Forsyth
  The information for 1985–86 is as follows:

  Health Board

  Per Capita

  (£)

  Argyll and Clyde

  303·06

  Ayrshire and Arran

  281·12

  Borders

  291·74

  Dumfries and Galloway

  334·94

  Fife

  275·35

  Forth Valley

  327·97

  Grampian

  326·01

  Greater Glasgow

  466·41

  Highland

  352·91

  Lanarkshire

  280·98

  Lothian

  380·41

  Orkney

  284·22

  Shetland

  279·05

  Tayside

  415·07

  Western Isles

  316·53

  Scotland

  353·86

  Notes:

  (1.) The expenditure figures used are taken from the annual accounts submitted to the Department by Health Boards. They are inclusive of charges paid by patients and retained by dental, pharmaceutical and ophthalmic practitioners. These charges
  590
  amounted to £31·9 million, or £6·22 per capita, for Scotland as a whole.

  (2.) Figures do not include expenditure on support services provided by the Common Services Agency on the main capital programme, or on the programme for the upgrading of the NHS estate.

  (3.) The population figures used are mid-year estimates of resident population for 1985. The distribution of funds to Health Boards in Scotland is determined by population weighted according to age, sex and local mortality rates, by the amount of health care provided for patients from neighbouring areas (cross boundary flow), by teaching hospital costs, by a number of other commitments, and also by the extent to which individual Boards benefit by the operation of the resources equalisation process. It is therefore not possible to draw reliable conclusions from comparisons of per capita expenditure by Health Board based on resident population figures which make no allowance for these factors.

  Mr. Bill Walker
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he has revised the financial allocations to health boards for 1987–88; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Michael Forsyth
  Since the House was informed of this year's allocations on 11 March an additional £35 million has been made available. This brings to £1,570 million the allocation to health boards to meet their gross recurrent expenditure commitments on hospitals and community health services in 1987–88. After expected income is taken into account, the net cash limited allocations to individual Health boards are as follows:

  Health Boards

  Recurrent Recurrent

  (net)

  £ million

  Argyll and Clyde

  112·583

  Ayrshire and Arran

  82·854

  Borders

  24·148

  Dumfries and Galloway

  40·380

  Fife

  77·651

  Forth Valley

  74·095

  Grampian

  142·411

  Greater Glasgow

  408·926

  Highland

  58·838

  Lanarkshire

  128·691

  Lothian

  251·390

  Orkney

  4·406

  Shetland

  5·190

  Tayside

  145·277

  Western Isles

  8·036

  Total

  11564·876

  1 Includes £14·06 million allocated outwith the SHARE formula for specific commitments such as the national cardiac surgery service and for new developments in health care.

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the estimated expenditure of his Department in the current year on management and computer consultancy.

  Mr. Malcolm Rifkind
  Expenditure by my Department on external management and computer consultancies in 1987–88 is currently estimated at £286,700.

  UK 2000
  Mr. Worthington
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what activity there has been by UK 2000 in Scotland.
  591
  Lord James Douglas-Hamilton
  I will write to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

  School Meals
  Mr. Maxton
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland (1) what are the results of the annual census of school meals in Scotland held in January;

  (2) if he will publish a table showing (a) the cost of fixed school meals in primary and secondary schools in each region, division, or island authority in Scotland in January and (b) the average amount spent on cafeteria meals;

  (3) if he will publish a table showing (a) the total number of staff employed in the school meals service in January in each region, division or island authority in Scotland and (b) the number of staff employed for (i) 30 or more hours per week and (ii) less than 30 hours per week.

  Mr. Michael Forsyth
  I shall write to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

  Coal Industry
  Mr. O'Neill
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will list by region for each year since and including

  Table 1—Expenditure per pupil on text and library books and on educational tools, equipment and materials at outturn prices (£)

  Books

  Educational tools, equipment and materials

  Year

  Primary

  Secondary

  Special

  Primary

  Secondary

  Special

  1978–79

  4·54

  8·31

  7·27

  n/a

  n/a

  n/a

  1979–80

  5·49

  9·61

  11·25

  n/a

  n/a

  n/a

  1980–81

  5·84

  9·29

  12·20

  n/a

  n/a

  n/a

  1981–82

  6·54

  9·77

  12·17

  n/a

  n/a

  n/a

  1982–83

  7·03

  10·03

  13·64

  8·18

  27·33

  48·46

  1983–84

  8·99

  13·35

  22·64

  7·28

  25·36

  42·11

  1984–85

  9·55

  13·83

  21·41

  8·91

  30·09

  57·77

  1985–86

  8·91

  13·47

  21·37

  8·33

  30·26

  53·42

  Table 2 —Expenditure per pupil on text and library books and on educational tools, equipment and materials adjusted to 1986–87 prices using the GDP deflator (£)

  Books

  Educational tools, equipment and materials

  Year

  Primary

  Secondary

  Special

  Primary

  Secondary

  Special

  1978–79

  8·57

  15·69

  13·72

  n/a

  n/a

  n/a

  1979–80

  8·87

  15·52

  18·17

  n/a

  n/a

  n/a

  1980–81

  7·95

  12·65

  16·61

  n/a

  n/a

  n/a

  1981–82

  8·11

  12·11

  15·09

  n/a

  n/a

  n/a

  1982–83

  8·13

  11·60

  11·80

  9·46

  31·60

  56·02

  1983–84

  9·95

  14·77

  25·06

  8·06

  28·07

  46·60

  1984–85

  10·13

  14·68

  22·72

  9·46

  31·93

  61·31

  1985–86

  8·91

  13·47

  21·37

  8·33

  30·26

  53·42

  Table 3: Expenditure per pupil on text and library books adjusted to 1986–87 prices using the GDP deflator, expressed as an index with 1978–79 = 100

  Year

  Primary

  Secondary

  Special

  1978–79

  100

  100

  100

  1979–80

  103·5

  98·9

  132·4

  1980–81

  92·8

  80·6

  121·1

  1981–82

  94·6

  77·2

  110·0

  1982–83

  94·9

  73·9

  86·0

  1983–84

  116·1

  94·1

  182·7

  1984–85

  118·2

  93·6

  165·6

  1985–86

  104·0

  85·9

  155·8

  592
  1976 the opencast coal mining applications that have been considered by him on appeal, and the results of those appeals in each case.

  Lord James Douglas-Hamilton
  I shall write to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

  Education Costs
  Mr. Clay
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the latest figure for expenditure per pupil on books and on equipment in (a) primary schools, (b) secondary schools and (c) special schools; and what are the comparable figures for each of the years since 1978–79, in cash terms and real terms using 1986–87 prices and using an index of 100 for 1978–79.

  Mr. Michael Forsyth
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: The information available is given in the following tables which have been compiled from local authority financial returns. Expenditure on equipment was not separately identified in these returns until 1982–83. There have been some variations from year to year in the recording of expenditure under these 2 headings. In particular some of the figures for expenditure on text and library books may include some expenditure on items of equipment.

  Mr. Clay
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will publish a table showing the amount spent by local authorities on (a) school transport and (b) school meals in the latest year for which figures are available; and what are the comparable figures for each year since 1978–79 in cash terms and real terms using 1986–87 prices and using an index of 100 for 1978–79.

  Mr. Michael Forsyth
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: The information is set out in the table:
  593

  School Meals (gross expenditure)

  School Transport

  Year

  Cash

  Adjusted to 1986–87 prices using the GDP Deflator

  Year

  Cash

  Adjusted to 1986–87 prices using the GDP Deflator

  £000's

  £000's

  Index

  £000's

  £000's

  Index

  1978–79

  49,055

  95,377

  100

  15,876

  30,867

  100

  1979–80

  54,729

  91,054

  95

  19,742

  32,845

  106

  1980–81

  56,052

  78,618

  82

  22,508

  31,570

  102

  1981–82

  57,479

  73,412

  77

  25,800

  32,952

  107

  1982–83

  57,684

  68,693

  72

  31,921

  38,013

  123

  1983–84

  60,347

  68,796

  72

  28,257

  31,213

  104

  1984–85

  60,680

  66,331

  70

  28,401

  31,046

  101

  1985–86

  62,715

  64,601

  68

  29,299

  30,180

  98

  Note: Figures for 1986–87 are not yel available.

  SDA (Expenditure)
  Mr. Gordon Brown
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will publish, for each parliamentary constituency, the amounts spent on (a) industrial investments and (b) environmental improvements by the Scottish Development Agency in each year since 1983.

  Mr. Lang
  [pursuant to his reply, 3 July 1987, c. 202]: I will write to the hon. Member shortly.

  Rating Reform
  Mr. Gordon Brown
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will list all the studies compiled on likely collection rates for the community charge, and if he will place them in the Library.

  Mr. Lang
  [pursuant to his reply, 7 July 1987]: My right hon. and learned Friend is not aware of any published systematic study assessing the levels of likely community charge collection rates in Scotland.

  Nursery Education
  Mr. Wallace
  asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the proportion of children aged 3 and 4 who, in 1986–87, were in receipt of nursery education in (a) each local education authority area and (b) Scotland as a whole.

  Mr. Michael Forsyth
  [pursuant to his reply, 20 July 1987, c. 78]: Information for 1986–87 is not available: the latest available information is set out in the following table:

  Percentages of Three and Four year old pupils1 in Education Authority Nursery Schools by Education Authority Area and Scotland—September 1984

  Percentages

  Authority

  Three Year Olds

  Four Year Olds

  Three & Four Year Olds

  Borders

  5·2

  25·0

  15·2

  Central

  17·2

  45·6

  31·2

  Dumfries and Galloway

  2·6

  14·6

  8·7

  Fife

  17·5

  68·4

  42·8

  Grampian

  11·2

  25·8

  18·6

  Highland

  4·4

  17·1

  10·5

  Lothian

  34·3

  56·4

  45·3

  Strathclyde

  17·1

  38·4

  27·6

  Tayside

  15·5

  30·1

  22·6

  Orkney

  14·1

  22·4

  18·3

  Shetland

  10·8

  16·5

  13·6

  594

  Percentages

  Authority

  Three Year Olds

  Four Year Olds

  Three &. Four Year Olds

  Western Isles

  0·0

  0·0

  0·0

  Scotland

  17·4

  39·2

  28·2

  1 Includes full-time and part-time pupils.

DEFENCE

  Cobra Counter Artillery Battery Radar Location System
  Mr. Wilkinson
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether he will make a statement on progress on the Cobra counter artillery battery radar location system and on international collaboration by the United Kingdom on the project.

  Mr. Sainsbury
  The three collaborative partners have recently concluded their evaluation of proposals from three competing consortia. Detailed contractual negotiations are now opening and final contractor selection would depend on the outcome of these negotiations. At the same time, options other than a collaborative development are also under consideration, and a decision whether to proceed with a collaborative project is not expected to be taken before the end of this year.

  Low-Flying Aircraft
  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence to what extent (a) low-flying by the Royal Air Force and (b) the number of public complaints thereat has increased over the last 10 years.

  Mr. Freeman
  I refer the hon. Member to the replies given to the hon. Member for Merionnydd Nant Conwy (Mr. Thomas) on 22 April,Official Report columns 584 and 585. Thus far (as at end of June) 1987 figures are 74,421 sorties and 1,912 complaints.

  Edinburgh Airport (Exercises)
  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence which military jet aircraft are being deployed from Edinburgh airport in the course of military flying exercises; in what circumstances; and for how long.

  Mr. Freeman
  The airfield at Edinburgh airport adjoining RAF Turnhouse provides diversion landing
  595
  facilities for aircraft from RAF Leuchars. From time to time, various military aircraft also stage through Edinburgh en route to or from exercises elsewhere.

  Equipment Orders
  Mr. Corbett
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence, pursuant to his reply, Official Report 13 July, column 344, whether he will list those categories of overseas orders for defence equipment placed in the United Kingdom which do not have to be notified to the Defence Export Services Organisation and which are exempt from licence arrangements.

  Mr. Sainsbury
  The Export of Goods (Control) Order 1985, as amended, identifies the equipments, materials and technologies for which an export licence is required. Defence exports not so identified may be exported without a licence and without reference to the Defence Export Services Organisation.

  Benbecula Airport (Land)
  Mr. Macdonald
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence if his Department has any plans to buy or lease from the Civil Aviation Authority any part of the land area known as An Tom, on the north-east side of Benbecula airport.

  Mr. Freeman
  The land area known as An Tom has been leased from the Civil Aviation Authority since 1972.

  UKADAGE Radar Stations
  Mr. Macdonald
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will list the acreages of the operational radar sites of the UKADAGE radar stations at (a) Saxa Vord, Shetland, (b) South Clettraval, North Uist, (c) RAF Buchan, Aberdeenshire, (d) Bishopscourt, Northern Ireland and (e) Boulmer, Northumberland.

  Mr. Freeman
  It is not possible to specify the acreages of the operational radar sites listed as they form an integral part of RAF Station complexes. However, the acreages for each of the RAF stations are as follows:

  Acres

  (a) Saxa Vord, Shetland

  43·63 (freehold)

  (b) South Clettraval, North Uist

  15·17 (freehold)

  (c) RAF Buchan, Aberdeenshire

  91·15 (freehold)

  25·98 (leasehold)

  (d) Bishopscourt, Northern Ireland

  585·07 (freehold)

  19·65 (leasehold)

  (e) Boulmer, Northumberland

  138·04 (freehold)

  19·73 (leasehold)

  No. 4 Flying Training School, RAF
  Mr. Macdonald
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence what consideration has been given to the establishment of a permanent training detachment from No. 4 Flying Training School, Royal Air Force, at (a) RAF Stornoway and (b) Benbecula airport.

  Mr. Freeman
  There are no plans to establish a permanent training detachment at either RAF Stornoway or Benbecula airport.

  Western Isles (Military Construction Projects)
  Mr. Macdonald
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will list all currently planned military construction projects in the Western Isles.

  Mr. Freeman
  The major projects currently planned in the Western Isles are as follows;

  RAF Stornoway

  Hardened aircraft shelters with associated support buildings.

  Additional fuel storage with interconnecting on base pipeline.

  Jetty at Gob Shilldinish with pipeline to airfield

  Improved air traffic control facilities.

  RAF Benbecula

  Completion of works for the IUKADGE1 facilities including:

  Support building.

  Radar installation.

  Ducting

  Electrical works.

  South Uist Island

  Marconi ST 802 Radar

  Explosive storehouse

  1 Improved United Kingdom Air Defence Ground Environment.

  RAF Aird Uig, Lewis
  Mr. Macdonald
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence what functions are performed by the RAF station at Aird Uig, Lewis.

  Mr. Freeman
  Aird Uig is a low frequency transmitting station for the support of RAF maritime operations.

  RAF Stornoway
  Mr. Macdonald
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether the design of hardened aircraft shelters to be constructed at RAF Stornoway permits cross-servicing of United States tactical combat aircraft.

  Mr. Freeman
  This would depend upon aircraft size and logistics requirements.

  Mr. Macdonald
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence (1) what consideration has been given to the re-establishment of electronic countermeasures monitoring range facilities at RAF Stornoway;

  (2) what consideration has been given to the re-establishment of a radar bomb-scoring unit at RAF Stornoway.

  Mr. Freeman
  None.

  Stornoway Airport
  Mr. Macdonald
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will list the title, dates, scope and purposes of all military exercises which are scheduled to involve use of Stornoway airport in 1987 and 1988.

  Mr. Freeman
  The appropriate authorities will be given as much notice as possible about future exercises to take place at RAF Stornoway, in accordance with longstanding arrangements.

  Staffordshire (Public Safety)
  Mr. Heddle
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will publish in the Official Report the text of any correspondence he has had with Staffordshire county

  597
  council, the Staffordshire police or any other public body since 1979 on matters of public safety in general and on military exercises involving radioactive dust in particular.

  Mr. Ian Stewart
  The Ministry of Defence takes a responsible attitude towards all aspects of safety, including nuclear safety. Its correspondence with public bodies on public safety in general will, therefore, be extensive. Some of it, including most of that relating to nuclear accident response exercises, is classified. For these reasons, I am not in a position to publish it.

  Radioactive Materials (Saint Athan)
  Mr. Win Griffiths
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence (1) what assessment has been made of the risk of the radioactive materials stored at Saint Athan contaminating people and in particular those working on the base, living nearby or visiting the base on occasions such as the open day;

  (2) what assessment has been made of the risk of the radioactive materials stored and used in training exercises at Saint Athan entering the environment and contaminating it via soil, water and winds;

  (3) whether the local authority emergency services in South Wales were informed about the nuclear accident response team at Saint Athan and its use of nuclear materials when it was established;

  (4) what radioactive contaminants are (a) used in exercises and (b) brought to Saint Athan; and what is the half-life of each radio nuclide involved;

  (5) what is the precise function of the nuclear accident response unit based at Saint Athan; on what occasions the unit has been used (a) within Wales and (b) outside Wales; and whether it was involved in the accident at West Dean, Wiltshire, in January when a nuclear weapons carrier overturned;

  (6) why Saint Athan was chosen as the base for a nuclear accident response team; and when the team began operating from there.

  Mr. Ian Stewart
  It has been the practice of successive Governments not to comment specifically on the storage of defence nuclear material. Use of nuclear materials throughout the Ministry of Defence is subject to stringent procedures to ensure the safety of the personnel involved and of the general public. There is full liaison on appropriate issues with the emergency services at all RAF stations in the United Kingdom. It is not, however, our practice to comment in detail on particular units or establishments that might be involved in the response to an accident involving defence nuclear material.

  Trident
  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether the United States Navy authorities require Her Majesty's Government's formal approval before deploying Trident C4 armed submarines to replace the existing Poseidon-armed vessels at Holy Loch; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Ian Stewart
  The position remains as stated by my right hon. Friend, the hon. Member for Tonbridge and Mailing (Mr. Stanley) in his reply to the hon. Member for Edinburgh, East (Mr. Strang) of 19 November 1986 at column 224.

  James Gibb (Accident)
  Dr. David Clark
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence when the report of the inquiry into James Gibb's accident on the Dartmoor national park will be made public; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Freeman
  It is not our policy to make public the findings of boards of inquiry. However, a public statement may be appropriate once the board of inquiry into this incident has been completed.

  Beef
  Mr. Ashdown
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence how many tons of beef for consumption by Her Majesty's forces has been purchased from (a) Uruguay, (b) New Zealand and (c) Australia and any other foreign nation in each of the last five years for which figures are availabile; and what is the projected amount for the current year.

  Mr. Freeman
  The MOD purchases annually in excess of 3,000 tonnes of beef, averaging some £8 million a year, for consumption worldwide by the armed forces. Because procurement of this beef, in accordance with Government policy, is the subject of competitive tendering action from United Kingdom and European Economic Community firms, who obtain their supplies from normal trade sources, it is not possible to provide detailed information regarding the origin of the beef, although it has been established that the bulk of purchases for the current year will, in fact, come from EEC countries. MOD contracts are, of course, placed on the basis of obtaining best value for money, taking account of the United Kingdom's international treaty obligations as well as the need to meet MOD's quality standards.

  Radioactive Contaminants (Exercises)
  Mr. Fisher
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence what use has been made of (a) cadets and (b) women in exercises involving radioactive contaminants.

  Mr. tan Stewart
  Information is not held centrally on the degree of involvement of cadets or women in such exercises, and could not be provided except at disproportionate cost.

  Mr. Fisher
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence (1) what information he has of any breaches of security during exercises involving radioactive contaminants;

  (2) what information he has of any disciplinary action taken against armed service personnel following exercises involving radioactive contaminants.

  Mr. Ian Stewart
  Such matters would normally be dealt with at unit or establishment level and would not be reported to the Ministry of Defence. Information on breaches of security and disciplinary action on such occasions is not therefore held centrally, and could not be provided except at disproportionate cost.

  Mr. Fisher
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence how many armed service personnel have received medical check-ups after being involved in exercises involving radioactive contaminants since 1 January 1981.

  Mr. [an Stewart
  I have nothing to add to my reply to the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Wallace) of 20 July at columns 95–96.
  599
  Mrs. Clwyd
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether he will list all the chemicals in the radioactive material used by his Department in Operation Senator in 1981.

  Mr. Ian Stewart
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: It is not our practice to comment in detail on specific exercises. Details of the radio-isotopes contained in live contaminant used in nuclear accident response exercises were given in my reply to the hon. Lady and the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) of 22 July.

  Mrs. Clwyd
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence, what quantity of radium 223 sulphate, diluted with barium sulphate and aluminium oxide, is typically used in military training exercises simulating nuclear accidents.

  Mr. Ian Stewart
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: It is our policy to use only the smallest quantity of radioactive material, of the lowest level of radioactivity required to achieve relevant instrument readings and meet essential training objectives. The same precautions are taken as would be taken in the event of a real accident and are therefore inherently many times more rigorous than the training material itself warrants.

  Mr. Dalyell
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence what is the source of the radium 223 used in training exercises.

  Mr. Ian Stewart
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: The live contaminant used in nuclear accident response exercises is obtained from commercial sources, such as Amersham International.

  Mr. Ashley
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence what information was given to police and other personnel active in Swynnerton, Staffordshire, as to the extent to which they were exposed to radioactive materials as a result of military exercises.

  Mr. Ian Stewart
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: Officials of the police and other external authorities are given appropriate information before each exercise involving the use of radioactive materials. Access by both military and civilian personnel to contaminated areas during those phases of a nuclear accident response exercise involving the use of contaminated material is strictly controlled. Personnel involved are required to wear protective clothing appropriate to the levels of contamination to which they have access, and to undergo full monitoring and decontamination procedures on their exit from the area. The need for these safety procedures is fully explained to those involved.

  Mr. Fisher
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence what is his policy towards the issuing of protective clothing to civilian police on duty in the vicinity of exercises involving radioactive contaminants.

  Mr. Ian Stewart
  I refer the hon. Member to the pursuant answer I have given today to the right hon. Member for Stoke on Trent, South (Mr. Ashley).

  Mr. Fisher
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence, further to his answer of 15 July, Official Report, columns 1129–1135, what method was used to spray radioactive contaminants during the tests referred to.

  Mr. Ian Stewart
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: A variety of methods for laying liquid low-level radioactive contaminant has been used in nuclear accident exercises
  600
  including, typically, a hand-held, short range, directional dispenser. All methods are designed to ensure that the application of contaminant is restricted to a designated area with due regard being given to such external factors as weather and wind direction and strength.

  Single-role Minehunters
  Dr. Marek
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether he is now in a position to announce increases in the numbers of single-role minehunters to be made available to the Royal Navy; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Sainsbury
  I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave to the hon. Member for Eastleigh (Sir D. Price) yesterday.

  Hospitality
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence how much was spent by his Department on official hospitality in each of the last two financial years.

  Mr. Sainsbury
  The information requested is as follows:

  £

  1985–86

  2,858,465

  1986–87

  2,906,519

  The amounts quoted represent total expenditure borne on Defence Votes for the provision of entertainment. They therefore include expenditure incurred not only by the Ministry of Defence itself, but also by formations and establishments of the Armed Forces at home and abroad and by individual officers occupying command and international appointments for which entertainment allowances are payable.

  The 1985–86 figure is an update to that given in reply to a similar question from the hon. Member on 6 May at column 104 when some overseas expenditure had yet to be brought to account.

  Whale Products
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence if any whale products have been purchased by his Department in the past two years.

  Mr. Sainsbury
  No.

  Nuclear Accidents
  Mr. Cryer
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence, pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for Bradford, South of 20 July, if he will now state the number of people employed in the nuclear accident response organisation and the qualifications of managers involved in simulated nuclear accidents.

  Mr. Ian Stewart
  Except for small staffs in MOD headquarters and service commands, the nuclear accident response organisation is a functional grouping of people primarily employed on other tasks. All those involved are suitably trained and qualified.

  Espionage
  Mr. Cryer
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence what safeguards against espionage are being considered in

  601
  the special study examining the scope for extending the use of contractors to provide support services for the British forces in Germany; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Sainsbury
  The recommendations of the study into the scope for extending the use of contractors to provide supporting services to the British forces in Germany arc currently under consideration. When final decisions are taken security considerations will be fully taken into account in the implementation process.

  Exercises (Pacific)
  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether Her Majesty's Government plan any further naval exercises, either singly or in conjunction with other Governments, in the Pacific region, and in particular in the territorial waters of the four United Nations trust territories of Micronesia.

  Mr. Ian Stewart
  We have no plans at present for naval exercises in this area.

  Defence Establishments (Statistics)
  Mr. Trotter
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether he will list by standard regional classification those defence establishments which employ more than 400 people, providing details of the number of (a) military and (b) civilian personnel at each establishment where security considerations do not prevent the figures being divulged; and whether he will provide a summary of the total number of (i) military and (ii) civilian personnel employed in each of the regions.

  Mr. Sainsbury
  It would not be in the public interest to provide a list of numbers in defence establishments in the detail requested.

  The numbers of United Kingdom service personnel and MOD civilians deployed by standard region are centrally recorded on an annual basis at 1 July but the numbers for 1987 will not be available before October. The details for 1986 in thousands are as follows:

  Thousands

  United Kingdom Service personnel

  MOD civilians

  National Totals

  England

  191·7

  136·5

  Wales

  6·3

  6·2

  Scotland

  19·7

  17·9

  Northern Ireland

  10·5

  2·7

  Standard Regions of England

  North

  1·9

  3·5

  Yorkshire & Humberside

  14·8

  6·3

  East Midlands

  13·6

  4·5

  East Anglia

  16·3

  2·7

  South East

  84·6

  64·9

  South West

  49·0

  42·4

  West Midlands

  9·4

  9·3

  North West

  2·2

  3·1

  In addition there were 1,300 Gurkha troops in South East region.

  Ark Royal
  Mr. Bellingham
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence what discussions his Department has had with
  602
  Swan Hunter, following the hull plate damage HMS Ark Royal suffered on 27 January allegedly the result of faulty workmanship.

  Mr. Sainsbury
  The Ministry of Defence will be discussing the position with Swan Hunter now that survey work has given an indication of the cause of the damage.

  Mr. Bellingham
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether full and comprehensive repairs are being carried out to HMS Ark Royal following hull plate damage suffered on 27 January; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Sainsbury
  Minor damage was suffered to a small area of hull plating in HMS Ark Royal on 27 January but, following temporary repairs she returned to normal duties. The damage has recently been fully surveyed and final repairs are now in hand, during the routine docking period at Portsmouth which began on 13 July.

  Strategic Defence Initiative
  Mr. Amess
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the present situation regarding co-operation on research and development of strategic defence initiative with the United States of America.

  Mr. Sainsbury
  I have nothing to add to the answers given by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Wallace) on 14 July at columns 956–957.

  Review Board (Report)
  Mr. Forth
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the report by the review board on its fifth general review of the profit formula for Government non-competitive contracts.

  Mr. Younger
  The Government have accepted the overall target rate of return on capital employed recommended by the review board in its report. This rate will be effective from 1 July this year. There are some other points in the report which officials will be pursuing with the CBI, in the context of implementing the recommendations, as part of the continuing drive to secure value for money and to promote full efficiency in the performance of defence work. Copies of the report have been placed in the Library.

  Lance (Warheads)
  Ms. Ruddock
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence what nuclear warheads for Lance have been deployed by the United States in support of the British Army of the Rhine since 1981.

  Mr. Ian Stewart
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: The United States-owned and supplied nuclear warheads which are assigned to British forces operating Lance systems in the Federal Republic of Germany have always been of the non-enhanced radiation type, on which the position remains as stated by my right hon. Friend the hon. Member for Tonbridge and Mailing (Mr. Stanley) in his reply to the hon. Member for Leyton (Mr. Cohen) on 8 May 1987 column 557.

  Military Training Assistance
  Mr. Corbett
  asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether he will list those countries (a) which currently

  603
  receive military training assistance and (b) whose applications for such assistance are currently being considered.

  Mr. Freeman
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: It is not our practice to reveal discussions between Her Majesty's Government and foreign Governments about future training possibilities. The list of countries which were provided with military training assistance in the financial year 1986–87 is as follows:

  Algeria

  Israel

  Australia

  Italy

  Bahamas

  Jamaica

  Bahrain

  Japan

  Bangladesh

  Jordan

  Barbados

  Kenya

  Belgium

  Kuwait

  Belize

  Lebanon

  Bermuda

  Lesotho

  Botswana

  Malawi

  Brazil

  Malaysia

  Brunei

  Maldives

  Cameroons

  Malta

  Canada

  Mauritius

  Chile

  Mozambique

  Denmark

  Nepal

  Dominica

  Netherlands

  Ecuador

  New Zealand

  Egypt

  Nigeria

  Eire

  Norway

  El Salvador

  Oman

  Fiji

  Pakistan

  France

  Philippines

  FRG

  Portugal

  Gambia

  Qatar

  Ghana

  Saudi Arabia

  Greece

  Senegal

  Guyana

  Sierra Leone

  Hong Kong

  Singapore

  India

  South Korea

  Indonesia

  Spain

  Iraq

  Sri Lanka

  Swansea Region

  Auxiliary hours allocated

  District call-outs

  Sectors

  1985–86

  1986–87

  1987–88

  1985

  1986

  19871

  Solway

  4,300

  2,970

  3,300

  80

  72 (Liverpool)

  9

  South Cumbria

  2,800

  1,900

  2,300

  Fylde

  3,200

  2,300

  2,600

  Merseyside

  1,500

  1,050

  1,240

  Clwyd

  2,990

  2,786

  2,707

  97

  97 (Holyhead)

  7

  Anglesey

  3,470

  4,453

  3,671

  Menai

  3,380

  5,120

  3,584

  Dwyfor

  3,558

  3,464

  4,258

  South Gwynedd

  3,080

  3,020

  1,975

  106>

  130 (Milford Haven)

  8

  North Dyfed

  3,080

  3,020

  1,975

  Preseli

  3,080

  3,020

  1,975

  St. Brides

  3,080

  3,020

  1,975

  South Pembs

  3,080

  3,020

  1,975

  Gower

  2,692

  2,624

  1,590

  117

  115 (Swansea)

  8

  Ogmore

  2,019

  1,968

  1,286

  Gwent

  2,692

  2,624

  1,590

  Avon

  2,692

  2,624

  1,590

  Somerset

  1,689

  1,789

  1,672

  91

  99 (Hartland)

  4

  North Devon

  5,578

  4,284

  3,969

  Hartland

  3,965

  3,587

  3,405

  1 January to March.

  604

  St. Lucia

  Turkey

  St. Vincent

  UAE

  Sudan

  Uganda

  Swaziland

  Uruguay

  Sweden

  USA

  Switzerland

  Venezuela

  Tanzania

  Yemen Arab Republic

  Thailand

  Yugoslavia

  Trinidad/Tobago

  Zambia

  Tunisia

  Zimbabwe

TRANSPORT

  Coastguard (Swansea)
  Mr. Bennett
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what is the total number of annual manpower hours allocated to each sector in 1985–86, 1986–87 and 1987–88 in the Swansea region of the coastguard service; and what was the number of callouts in 1985–86 and 1986–87.

  Mr. David Mitchell
  The allocation of auxiliary coastguard hours to each sector is a matter for the region, taking due account of financial budgets, the varying numbers of stations in each sector, changes in membership numbers at stations and other requirements for auxiliary assistance. Sector allocations are given in the table, together with district totals of occasions when members of auxiliary companies in Swansea region were called out to render assistance where human life was thought to be at risk.

  True comparisons cannot be drawn between the annual allocations of hours by sector because of differences in coverage. Some reductions have taken place as part of a planned programme to bring resources into line with current requirements, while maintaining the overall effectiveness of the auxiliary service. Call-out figures are not readily available by financial year or by sector.

  South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Authority
  Mr. Illsley
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport whether extra money will be made available to the South Yorkshire passenger transport authority to make grants for the transport needs of elderly and disabled persons under section 106 of the Transport Act 1985.

  Mr. David Mitchell
  It is for the passenger transport authority to determine how much it spends on individual items within its overall budget. Its expenditure level for 1988–89 has been determined at £41·5 million.

  M25 (Road Widening)
  Mr. Lawrence
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what plans he has for the widening of the M25 between Chertsey and Heathrow.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  Consultants are currently preparing a scheme for additional fourth lanes on the M25 between junctions 11 (Chertsey) and 13 (Staines). I shall make a further announcement about this as soon as possible. We have no plans for widening the existing dual four-lane sections of the motorway north of junction 13.

  Road Accident Statistics
  Mr. Lawrence
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport, since the wearing of seat belts became compulsory for car drivers and front-seat passengers, how many of the following categories of person have been killed or seriously injured in each year: (a) drivers, (b) front-seat passengers, (c) back-seat passengers, (d) motorcyclists and cyclists in collision with motor vehicles and (e) pedestrians in collision with motor vehicles.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  I shall write to my hon. and learned Friend.

  Mr. Lawrence
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport how many serious road accidents there have been in each year since the wearing of car seat belts became compulsory; and how many there were in each year over the same number of years before compulsion.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  The information is as follows:

  Serious Accidents: Great Britain

  February 1980—January 1986

  Year

  Number

  Pre-compulsory seat belt wearing

  February 1980–January 1981

  65,336

  February 1981–January 1982

  64,548

  February 1982–January 1983

  66,619

  Post-compulsory seat belt wearing

  February 1983–January 1984

  59,735

  February 1984–January 1985

  61,479

  1Feburary 1985–January 1986

  60,907

  1 Provisional.

  An analysis of the effect of compulsory seat-belt wearing on injuries was covered in the Department of Transport's report in October 1985.

  Cars (Mirrors)
  Mr. Lawrence
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport whether he will make the fitting of front-wing mirrors on the passenger side of motor vehicles compulsory.
  606
  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  Nearside mirrors must be fitted in vehicles with no internal rear view mirror, such as lorries. Most cars are fitted with nearside mirrors. Under directive 85/205/EEC, this cannot be made compulsory.

  National Bus Company
  Mr. Nicholas Bennett
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will list the former National Bus Company companies which have been privatised by type of purchase including management buyout.

  Mr. David Mitchell
  Thirty-nine National Bus Company subsidiaries have been sold since sales began in July 1986, 25 to their own managements or employees. The details are as follows:

  Management-employee buyouts

  Badgerline Ltd.

  Brighton and Hove Bus and Coach Company Ltd.

  Cambus Ltd.

  Cheltenham and Gloucester Omnibus Company Ltd.

  The City of Oxford Motor Services Ltd.

  Devon General Ltd.

  Eastern Counties Omnibus Ltd.

  East Kent Road Car Company Ltd.

  The Eastern National Omnibus Company Ltd.

  East Yorkshire Motor Services Ltd.

  The Maidstone and District Motor Services Ltd.

  Midland Red Coaches Ltd.

  Midland Red West Ltd.

  National Welsh Omnibus Services Ltd.

  The Northern General Transport Company Ltd.

  Potteries Motor Traction Company Ltd.

  Provincial Bus Company Ltd.

  The Southern Vectis Omnibus Company Ltd.

  South Midland Ltd.

  The South Wales Transport Company Ltd.

  Trent Motor Traction Company Ltd.

  Wessex National Ltd.

  West Riding Automobile Company Ltd.

  Wilts and Dorset Bus Company Ltd.

  The Yorkshire Traction Company Ltd.

  Third Party Purchases

  Alder Valley Engineering Ltd.

  Bristol Engineering Ltd.

  Carlyle Works Ltd.

  Cumberland Motor Services Ltd.

  Eastern National Engineering Ltd.

  H and D Distribution Ltd.

  Hampshire Bus Company Ltd.

  Kent Engineering (NBC) Ltd.

  National Holidays Ltd.

  NTE Coaches Ltd.

  Pilgrim Coaches Ltd.

  Shamrock and Rambler Coaches Ltd.

  Southdown Engineering Services Ltd.

  United Counties Engineering Ltd.

  Diabetics (Vocational Licences)
  Mr. William Powell
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will seek to remove all obstacles which restrict the freedom of diabetics to drive under vocational licences on the public highway.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  Under European Community law, insulin-treated diabetics are not permitted to drive heavy goods or public service vehicles on public roads. Prior to 1983 drivers taking certain tablet treatment were also prohibited, but the rules have now been relaxed to allow those taking oral preparations to continue to hold a licence.

  North Circular Road (Newham)
  Mr. Spearing
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what plans he has for designing or constructing a second flyover at the intersection of the A13 and the North Circular road in Newham; and at what date he expects it to be in operation.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  We have not yet made a decision about widening the flyover at this junction. Studies are still in progress. We are also considering converting the existing one-way flyover to take traffic in both directions at certain times of day.

  London Underground (One-man Operation)
  Mr. Spearing
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what reports he has received from the Chief Inspector of Railways concerning proposals to extend one person operation to deep-tube railways in London.

  Mr. David Mitchell
  London Underground Ltd. has developed plans for the extension of one-person operation to their deep-tube railways. These plans have been shown and demonstrated to the Railway Inspectorate, which is satisfied that they will provide a proper level of safety. The Secretary of State is not required to approve formally the method of operation of London Underground's trains; this is a matter for the railways' management which is responsible for the safe day-to-day operation of its railways.

  Buses (London)
  Mr. Spearing
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what are the numbers of crew-operated rear platform buses operated in Central London by London Regional Transport and the numbers he expects them to operate in each of the next five years.

  Mr. David Mitchell
  London Regional Transport's operating subsidiary, London Buses Ltd., currently has 1,044 such buses in passenger service, predominantly in central and inner London. A further 50 are employed on London sightseeing tours. The requirement in future years is an operational matter for LRT and London Buses Ltd. to determine.

  Merseyside PTE (Expenditure)
  Mr. Alton
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will make a statement on the spending guidelines for 1988–89 determined by him for the Merseyside passenger transport executive.

  Mr. David Mitchell
  The 1988–89 expenditure level for the Merseyside passenger transport authority has now been determined at £58·5 million. The authority is free to make a reasoned application for a redetermination of this figure if it so wishes.

  Night Flights (London)
  Mr. Ground
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what proportion of the night flying at Heathrow and Gatwick. respectively, for 1985 and 1986 summer and winter seasons, met ICAO Chapter 3 Regulations.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  The Department does not have such information. The relevant airport companies could produce it only at disproportionate cost.
  608
  Mr. Ground
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what proportion of night flying at Heathrow and Gatwick is composed of (a) charter and (b) scheduled aircraft movements.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  The Department does not keep such records for the night restrictions period. I understand that at Heathrow there are very few chartered passenger flights at night. For Gatwick the table shows approximate figures provided by the airport scheduling committee for passenger flights at night in 1986.

  Chartered

  Scheduled

  per cent.

  per cent.

  Summer

  90

  10

  Winter

  45

  55

  A57, Denton (Traffic Lights)
  Mr. Andrew F. Bennett
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will take steps as a matter of priority to install temporary traffic lights at the junction of the A57 Manchester Road and Hule Road, Denton.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  No. Very high costs and practical difficulties rule out a temporary installation here. The promised permanent traffic signals will be installed next year in conjunction with other improvements to the A57.

  Transport Supplementary Grant
  Ms. Walley
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will detail for what purposes the transport supplementary grant can be used; if he has any plans to change the transport supplementary grant so that local councils can implement the recommendations of his Department's document "Measures to Control Traffic for the Benefit of Residents, Pedestrians and Cyclists"; and if he will outline how those recommendations are to be financed.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  Transport supplementary grant (TSG) is paid in support of local authorities' capital expenditure on roads of more than local importance. Expenditure on schemes of the kind described in the traffic advisory unit leaflet 1/87, "Measures to control traffic for the benefit of residents, pedestrians and cyclists", would he considered for support through TSG if forming part of a road improvement or traffic management scheme on a road of more than local importance.

  Copies of the leaflet were placed in the Library in March. It is a technical publication aimed at drawing attention to ways of handling traffic in residential areas and giving greater emphasis to the needs of residents. Comments on the techniques were invited with a view to the publication of further, more detailed information in due course.

  Implementation is for local authorities to consider in the light of local circumstances and resources.

  On-train Trolley Services
  Dr. Marek
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport if, when he next meets the Chairman of British Rail, he will raise with him the case for operators of on-train services to be required to display (a) the name and address of the company holding the franchise and (b) their price list; and if he will make a statement.
  609
  Mr. David Mitchell
  These are management matters for the Railways Board.

  East Midlands Bus Company
  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what is his policy towards the proposed sale of the East Midlands bus company to a private buyer; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. David Mitchell
  The National Bus Company welcomes outside bids for all its subsidiaries, including East Midlands Motor Services, provided that they are from parties who intend to continue bus operations. NBC also encourage bids from management and employee teams; such bids can be eligible for a price preference of up to about 5 per cent. over third party offers.

  Helicopters
  Mr. Wallace
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport pursuant to his answer of 20 July, if he will give details of the revision of the emergency reporting procedures for helicopters for Sumburgh and Aberdeen airports following the mandatory occurrence reports submitted in March 1982.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  Aviation safety regulation is the statutory responsibility of the Civil Aviation Authority. I will ask the chairman of the authority to write to the hon. Gentleman.

  Railways (Tourism and Employment)
  Mr. Amos
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what is his assessment of the role of the railway network in Northumberland in bringing employment and tourism to the county; if, when he next meets the Chairman of British Rail he will raise with him the implications for that role of the present standards of reliability on the London to Newcastle and Newcastle to Carlisle lines; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. David Mitchell
  I want to see the quality of BR's service improved over its network as a whole. That is why we have just agreed standards for punctuality, reliability and other aspects of service quality. I shall be monitoring the board's performance against them.

  Grants (Bridges)
  Mr. Amos
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what criteria are used, in allocating grants to local authorities for transport purposes, to assess the urgency of structural repairs to bridges on or over roads for which local authorities are responsible; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  Transport supplementary grant (TSG) is paid to local authorities in support of accepted programmes of capital works on roads of more than local importance. Expenditure on structural repairs to bridges on such roads may be accepted for TSG if the original load-carrying capacity is increased. It is for local authorities to decide the priority to be given within their road programmes to structural improvements to bridges.

  Mr. Amos
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will visit Northumberland to discuss the state of structural repair of bridges on and over roads for which he has responsibility; and if he will make a statement.
  610
  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  Bridges in Northumberland carrying local roads which are in need of structural repair are the responsibility of the county council as the local highway authority. I saw some of them when I visited Northumberland last year and I discussed this matter with the council earlier this year on the occasion of the northern regional annual consultative committee meeting.

  Structural improvement to local bridges to increase their local carrying capacity may be eligible for transport supplementary grant. I am now awaiting the council's bid for this for 1988–89.

  Hospitality
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport how much has been spent by his Department on official hospitality in each of the last two financial years.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  The amounts spent by the Department of Transport on the full range of official hospitality are as follows:

  £

  1985–86

  88,634

  1986–87

  94,295

  A69 (Dualling)
  Mr. Amos
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what is his assessment of the role of the A69 in the economic prosperity of the north of England; when he expects to announce a date for the commencement of work to convert to dual carriageway the A69 west of Hexham to Carlisle; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  We fully appreciate the importance of the A69 to the northern region as a strategic east-west route linking the A1(M) to the M6 and Tyne and Wear to north-west England and western Scotland. It is for this reason that we have been proceeding with a series of improvements to the A69 in recent years, and the dualling of the section between Newcastle and Hexham will be completed shortly.

  West of Hexham, traffic flows are much lighter — down to about 7,000 vehicles a day — and dualling cannot be justified. This stretch is being improved to a high single carriageway standard with short section of dual carriageway to facilitate overtaking. This will enable it to cope more than adequately with predicted increases in traffic over the next 15 to 20 years.

  Settle-Carlisle Railway
  Mr. Cryer
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will make it his policy to hold over any announcement of his decision on the retention of the Settle-Carlisle railway until after the House reassembles following the Summer Adjournment; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. David Mitchell
  I am also under pressure to end the uncertainty over the future of the Settle-Carlisle line. I intend to make an announcement as soon as the considerable work involved in preparing for a decision is complete and Ministers have come to a conclusion.

  LRT (Chiswick Site)
  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport (1) if he has been informed of any transfer of ownership

  611
  of land at the Chiswick site occupied by Bus Engineering Ltd. to Bus Engineering Ltd. from London Regional Transport or any subsidiary of London Regional Transport;

  (2) what communication there has been between his Department and London Regional Transport concerning the proposed sale of land in Chiswick; when such communication took place; and if he has given his consent to the sale;

  (3) if he will make a statement about the proposed sale of Bus Engineering Ltd. by London Regional Transport.

  Mr. David Mitchell
  London Regional Transport announced on 10 July that it was seeking offers for the sale of its subsidiary company, LRT Bus Engineering Ltd. My right hon. Friend has received no request for his consent, either to the disposal of any securities of the subsidiary which are held by LRT, or to the transfer of any land between LRT and the subsidiary.

  Merchant Shipping (Re-registration)
  Mr. Rowlands
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport how many applications have been received for the re-registration of foreign ships as British ships during the last five years; and in which countries those ships were originally registered.

  Mr. David Mitchell
  The number of ships of over 100 gross registered tons which were entered on the United Kingdom register under part I of the Merchant Shipping Act 1894 and which were previously on foreign registers was as follows:

  in 1986–75 ships from 23 different foreign registers

  in 1987 so far 37 ships from 18 different foreign registers

  Information for earlier years and for the Crown dependencies and dependent territories could be obtained only at disproportionate cost.

  Bus Routes (London)
  Ms. Ruddock
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what advice he has issued to the Board of London Regional Transport concerning tender specifications for London bus routes; what account such advice took of the needs of disabled people; and if he will place copies of the advice in the Library.

  Mr. David Mitchell
  We have issued no advice concerning tender specifications for bus routes. LRT does, however, have a general statutory duty in securing the provision of passenger services to have due regard to the transport needs of disabled people.

  Ms. Ruddock
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what instructions he has issued to the board of London Regional Transport, concerning the timespan within which London buses are to put routes out to tender; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. David Mitchell
  London Regional Transport has a general statutory duty to invite tenders to carry on those of its activities it may declare to be appropriate. The current objectives which the Government have set the Chairman include a requirement to involve the private sector in the provision of services where that is more efficient. Beyond that, the timing and nature of tendering of bus routes are matters for LRT.

  Air Misses (Carlisle)
  Dr. Cunningham
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport if he will institute an inquiry into the incidence of aircraft near misses in the air space in the vicinity of Carlisle airport; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  No. The Civil Aviation Authority, through the National Air Traffic Services, has statutory responsibility for all matters concerning air traffic control. The reported air miss near Carlisle on 15 July 1987 is under investigation by the CAA's joint air miss working group which investigates all air miss reports. I understand that the incidence of air misses near Carlisle have been no different from that over other parts of the country where traffic volumes are similar.

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what is the estimated expenditure of his Department in the current year on management and computer consultancy.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  The estimated expenditure on management and computer consultants by the Department of Transport in 1987–88 is £3·4 million.

  Severn Crossing
  Mr. Stern
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what progress has been made on the proposed second crossing of the River Severn: and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Channon
  Tenders have been invited today from selected consultants for the next stage of scheme preparation for this project. We hope to appoint the successful consultant by early October, who will then undertake the detailed investigations and consultations that are necessary in carrying this project forward. The consultant will then have to prepare the plans to suit the engineering and environmental conditions of the route we have already selected, and the funding, contracting and legal procedures that will be appropriate for this large and complex project.

  We are on target to provide this crossing by the mid-1990s, if the build-up of traffic across the estuary needs it by then and Parliament so decides.

  Chief Highways Engineers Directorate
  Mr. Gregory
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he expects to announce his conclusions on the Rayner scrutiny of the role of the Chief Highways Engineers Directorate.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  I expect to publish my conclusions shortly when my Department has completed its consultation with the central trade union side. I will then place a copy of the scrutiny report and its action plan in the Library of the House of Commons.

  Buses
  Mr. Andy Stewart
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what change there has been in the accident rate involving buses since bus deregulation.

  Mr. David Mitchell
  Provisional figures for the first six months of deregulation, October 1986 to March 1987,
  613
  indicate a fall in bus occupant casualties over the country as a whole of 7 per cent. compared with the same period a year ago. However, because bus accidents are comparatively rare, a very few additional accidents, from whatever cause, can lend the statistics a misleading appearance. It can be especially misleading to attempt to relate movements in accident statistics involving buses to particular events in relatively small areas, as has recently been attempted in West Yorkshire.

  BA/B-Cal Merger
  Mr. Cran
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport what steps he has taken to ensure that there are sufficient safeguards in the regulations governing the newly privatised British Airports Authority plc to ensure that independent British scheduled and charter airlines' rights of access to Gatwick will not be diminished in the event of the proposed merger of British Airways and British Caledonian being allowed to proceed.

  Mr. Peter Bottomley
  The Airports Act 1986 provides appropriate safeguards, should these prove necessary. Section 31 empowers the Secretary of State to make traffic distribution rules regulating airlines' access to certain airports such as Gatwick. Section 33 provides a reserve power for the Secretary of State to introduce schemes to allocate capacity at certain airports between airlines. Section 41 empowers the Civil Aviation Authority to remedy or prevent any trade practice or pricing policy on the part of an airport operator that unreasonably discriminates against particular airlines or classes of airlines.

  Dial-a-ride Services (Yorkshire)
  Mr. Illsley
  asked the Secretary of State for Transport whether the Government have any proposals to increase funding to either Barnsley metropolitan district council or the South Yorkshire residual body to expand dial-a-ride services.

  Mr. Trippier
  I have been asked to reply.

  The Barnsley dial-a-ride service is part of the Barnsley community transport co-ordination scheme which is currently given financial support by the Government under the 1987–88 Barnsley inner area programme. Implementation is a matter for the Barnsley metropolitan district council.

AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD

  Milk Quotas
  Mr. McLoughlin
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will make a statement about milk quota leasing.

  Mr. MacGregor
  As I have already announced to the House, as part of this year's price fixing, we secured agreement that a measure would be implemented to permit the continuation of milk quota leasing. We have been urging the completion of the necessary regulations as quickly as possible, and considerable progress has been made. But adoption itself will not be possible until after the summer holiday because of the need, first, to consult the European Parliament.

  In view, however, of the importance which we attached to the early implementation of a leasing arrangement, and
  614
  to assist producers, my right hon. Friends and I have agreed that preparation for leasing arrangements can be pursued in the meantime. The milk marketing boards will accordingly be announcing shortly the details of a scheme whereby producers who wish to participate in leasing arrangements will notify the appropriate milk marketing board. The board will then automatically adjust the quotas of the farmers concerned as soon as the regulation is formally adopted.

  Mr. Amos
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what representations he has received from farmers about the implication for the dairy industry about the fact that milk quota is not considered to be a qualifying asset under the Capital Gains Tax Act 1979 in terms of eligibility for roll-over relief; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  I have received a number of representations about the fact that milk quota is not an asset qualifying for roll-over relief against capital gains tax. Taxation policy is, however, the responsibility of the Chancellor of the Exchequer and I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply that he has received from the Chancellor to a similar question.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, what information he has as to the highest known price paid per litre of milk quota in (a) East Sussex and (b) elsewhere; what litreage has been purchased by persons not resident in the United Kingdom; what has been the average rate of return of milk producers in each of the past three years; and what is the reason for the premium paid for milk quotas.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  No records are kept on the price of quota and I therefore have no detailed information on the price paid for milk quota in East Sussex or eleswhere. So far as purchases of quota by persons not resident in the United Kingdom are concerned, it is not possible for United Kingdom milk quota to be transferred outside its boundaries. Information on the returns to milk producers in 1984–85 and 1986–86 is published in "Milk Production 1984–85" and "Milk Production 1985–86; copies of these publications are available in the Library of the House. Figures for 1986–87 are not yet available. The price paid for milk quota is a reflection of market demand and the continued overall profitability of the dairy sector.

  Fishing Quotas
  Mr. Neale
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food when the Government propose to introduce legislation on the registration of fishing vessels designed to ensure that the United Kingdom quotas are reserved for United Kingdom fishermen.

  Mr. Harris
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what proposals he has to prevent foreign-owned fishing vessels from gaining access to United Kingdom quotas; and when such measures will be introduced.

  Mr. MacGregor
  My predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Mr. Jopling), announced on 9 May that the Government had decided that the law on the registration of fishing vessels should be changed so that, in order to obtain registration of a British fishing vessel, a company will have to be largely owned and managed by British citizens resident and domiciled in this
  615
  country. The Government's intention is to include the necessary provisions in the Merchant Shipping Bill which it is hoped will be introduced in the autumn.

  Queens' Speech
  Mr. Thurnham
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what representations he has received about proposals in the Queen's Speech for which he has responsibility; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Gummer
  The Queen's Speech stated that the Government would help farmers to diversify and would introduce legislation to encourage the planting of farm woodlands. Consultation documents entitled "Farm Woodland Scheme" and "Farm Diversification Scheme" were issued earlier this year. A large number of responses have been received and we shall take these into account in framing our legislative proposals.

  Cow Effluent
  Mr. Nicholas Bennett
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what representations have been received by him concerning the extension of the 60 per cent. grant for the disposal of cow effluent in less-favoured areas to the rest of the United Kingdom; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Gummer
  Representations have been received from a number of organisations including the water authorities, the Country Landowners Association and the National Farmers Union, concerning the extension to the lowland areas of the 60 per cent. rate of grant now available for effluent and waste facilities in the less favoured areas.

  However, the relevant European Community legilation does not permit the payment of the 60 per cent. rate in lowland areas.

  Agricultural Land
  Mr. Rooker
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he expects the decline in the use of land for agriculture to continue; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Gummer
  It is difficult to predict the future trend in the diversion of land from agriculture to other uses, but

  (Mecu)

  1982

  1983

  1984

  1985

  1986

  Belgium

  1

  7

  13

  9

  12

  Denmark

  17

  43

  42

  55

  46

  Germany

  184

  290

  381

  466

  460

  Greece

  58

  53

  23

  12

  10

  Spain

  —

  —

  —

  —

  45

  France

  67

  165

  190

  256

  240

  Ireland

  26

  50

  71

  88

  84

  Italy

  61

  100

  123

  137

  125

  Luxembourg

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Netherlands

  5

  44

  84

  89

  90

  Portugal

  —

  —

  —

  —

  3

  United Kingdom

  48

  105

  129

  229

  234

  Source: Community contributions to intervention technical and financing costs as given in EC Commission EAGGF financial reports.
  616
  we have recently announced a number of new policy initiatives to encourage farmers to diversify, with the aim of reducing production of commodities in surplus.

  Mr. Nicholas Bennett
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what estimate has been made as to the amount of farmland taken out of production in each year since 1973.

  Mr. Gummer
  Some of the information my hon. Friend requires was given in a reply to my hon. Friend the Member for South Hams (Mr. Steen) on Thursday 12 February 1987 at col 287. I shall write to my hon. Friend giving further information shortly.

  Water Pollution
  Mr. Ron Davies
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how many incidents of water pollution by farm wastes were recorded in each of the years 1980 to 1986, and in 1987 to date, in England; how many of these incidents were attributable to pollution by silage effluent, and by slurry; and how many of these incidents were the subject of warning letters and prosecutions.

  Mr. Gummer
  Statistics on farm waste pollution incidents and water authority prosecutions are collated by my Department and the Water Authorities Association. Although the exact information requested is not available for England alone, a considerable volume of information covering England and Wales for the years 1980 to 1985 was published in the 1985 survey of reported water pollution incidents by farm wastes in England and Wales, copies of which were placed in the Library. The equivalent 1986 survey is still in preparation. No 1987 statistics have yet been collated centrally.

  Intervention Stocks
  Mr. Nicholas Bennett
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what was the total estimated cost of intervention storage in each European Community country in each of the past five years.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  Community expenditure on intervention storage in each member state in each of the past five years is set out in the table. Details of actual expenditure by member states on intervention storage operations are not available.

  Sugar
  Mr. Spearing
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, pursuant to his answer to the hon. Member for Oxford, East (Mr. Smith) of 8 July, Official Report, column 154, what is the source of the funds used to defray the difference between £621 million of increase from the sugar levy and the year's expenditure of £1,061 million in the year 1985.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  Sugar sector expenditure not covered by sugar levies is funded in the normal way through the own resources system comprising customs duties, agricultural levies and VAT. This expenditure will be partly offset by receipts from the elimination levy agreed by the Council in 1986 designed to claw back the deficit on the production levy/export refund account which had arisen in the five marketing years up to 1985–86. in the next five marketing years.

  Mr. Spearing
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will tabulate the quantity of raw cane sugar imported by each member state of the European Economic Community, including imports from Departments Outre Mer, for the most recent available year.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  Imports of preferential ACP sugar in the period July 1985 to June 1986 were as follows (figures in thousand tonnes white sugar equivalent):

  Thousand tonnes

  Belgium

  0·4

  Denmark

  —

  France

  137·1

  Germany

  0·2

  Greece

  —

  Ireland

  —

  Italy

  —

  Luxembourg

  —

  Netherlands

  1·5

  Portugal

  —

  Spain

  —

  United Kingdom

  1,141·7

  Similar information for imports of raw sugar from the French Overseas Departments is not available. In line with new arrangements following Portuguese accession, however, 185,000 tonnes and 254,000 tonnes of raw cane sugar for import, excluding preferential sugar, were allocated to metropolitan France and Portugal respectively for the 1986–87 marketing year.

  Thames Barrier
  Mr. Spearing
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what are the dates on which the Thames barrier has been closed for emergency reasons since September 1986; and for each closure, what was the height of the tidal surge above ordnance datum at Southend, Gravesend and at the barrier, respectively, together with their heights above predicted levels at each location.

  Mr. Gummer
  Since September 1986 the Thames barrier has been closed against potential flooding only on 29 March 1987. On that occasion the maximum recorded high water levels above ordnance datum were 3·6 m at Southend, 3·88 m in the area of Gravesend and 4·35 m at 618
  Woolwich close to the barrier. The Southend level was 0·5m and the Tilbury and Woolwich levels 0·3 m above the predicted levels shown in published tide tables.

  Mr. Spearing
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what are the works in hand to complete the Thames flood defences downstream of the Thames flood barrier; and if he will make a statement concerning the circumstances of the recent breach of flood defences in Barking creek.

  Mr. Gummer
  The Thames tidal defences downstream of the Thames flood barrier are now complete save for minor works near Southend-on-Sea. The flooding from Barking creek on 14 July 1987 occurred as a result of slippage of the river bank during work on sluices controlling discharges from Beckton sewerage treatment works. Adjacent buildings, roads and playing fields were flooded during the early hours of that day. Further flooding after the dawn high tide was, however, prevented by closure of the Barking flood barrier. The river bank was restored on 15 July — and there have been no further problems.

  West Coast Saith Quota
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (1) whether he has identified the vessels and fish producers' organisations which over-fished the west coast saith's quota, resulting in premature closure; and what action he proposes to take against them.;

  (2) what compensation he proposes to offer to the Grimsby Fish Producers Organisation whose west coast saith quota was prematurely closed because of overfishing by other vessels.

  Mr. Gummer
  As regards penalties and compensation for over- or under-fishing of sectoral quotas, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Kingston-upon-Hull, West (Mr. Randell) on 17 July. We shall consider the application of these arrangements once the final catch figures for the different organisations are available and once we know whether or not additional saith opportunities are available from another member state.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what measures he proposes to ensure that overfishing and premature closure of the west coast saith quota does not happen again.

  Mr. Gummer
  Fisheries Departments are urgently reviewing arrangements for monitoring catches in the area IV and VI white fisheries, and will put in hand any possible improvements identified. In addition, we propose to discuss with the industry the possibility of arrangements for suspending licences of any group approaching the limit of its sectoral allocations so as to allow a definitive assessment to be made of the catch position before the allocation is exceeded.

  West Coast Cod Quota
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how close the west coast cod quota is to exhaustion; and what compensation he will offer to those fish producers organisations whose quota is incomplete if catching is prematurely stopped.
  619
  Mr. Gummer
  The latest data available on catches to 4 July suggests that approximately 85 per cent. of the United Kingdom quota for west of Scotland cod had been taken by that date. If the previous unusually high rate of catching continued thereafter we estimate that the annual quota would be exhausted by about the end of July. However, we expect the rate of catching to have been reduced as a result of the quota management restrictions introduced for the non-sectoral fishery on 7 July and the action taken, with effect from 18 July, to suspend licences for the non-sectoral fishery and for those sectoral groups whose allocation was exhausted, which jointly account for the major part of this fishery.

  In view of the seasonal pattern of fishing and the action already taken, I cannot at this stage predict when, if at all, closure action will be necessary. Fisheries Departments will be monitoring the situation as closely as possible.

  In the event that the fishery is closed prematurely the agreed arrangements for compensation, to which I referred in my reply of 17 July to theap j 13–5 hon. Member for Kingston-upon-Hull, West (Mr. Randall), will apply. We are exploring the possibility of obtaining additional opportunities for cod by means of a quota exchange from another member state but I can hold out no firm hope of this at this stage.

  EC (Membership)
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (1) whether he will bring up to date the

  Net farm income on full-time farms by farm type; 1967–68 to 1970–71 and 1979–80 to 1985–86

  £ per farm

  All dairy farms

  All livestock farms

  All cropping farms

  Pig and poultry farms

  Horticultural farms

  Money terms

  Index in real terms

  Money terms

  Index in real terms

  Money terms

  Index in real terms

  Money terms

  Index in real terms

  Money terms

  Index in real terms

  (£)

  1982–3:100

  (£)

  1982–3:100

  (£)

  1982–3:100

  (£)

  1982–3:100

  (£)

  1982–3:100

  1967–68

  1,903

  75

  1,677

  179

  3,210

  100

  2,255

  82

  2,148

  137

  1968–69

  1,761

  66

  1,524

  154

  2,238

  66

  2,180

  75

  1,712

  104

  1968–69

  1,762

  66

  1,523

  154

  2,278

  67

  2,174

  75

  1,806

  109

  1969–70

  1,799

  64

  1,555

  150

  3,103

  87

  2,151

  71

  2,083

  120

  1969–70

  1,811

  64

  1,546

  149

  3,078

  86

  2,191

  72

  1,988

  114

  1970–71

  2,235

  74

  1,963

  176

  3,363

  88

  1,996

  61

  2,011

  108

  1979–80

  7,343

  78

  2,384

  69

  10,831

  91

  11,786

  117

  5,699

  99

  1980–81

  8,401

  77

  3,494

  87

  9,747

  70

  12,654

  107

  4,356

  64

  1980–81

  8,288

  76

  3,823

  95

  9,920

  72

  13,731

  116

  7,108

  105

  1981–82

  10,690

  87

  4,758

  106

  12,418

  80

  17,116

  130

  9,976

  132

  1981–82

  10,773

  88

  5,870

  130

  12,019

  78

  19,156

  145

  10,602

  140

  1982–83

  13,177

  100

  4,844

  100

  16,631

  100

  14,195

  100

  8,114

  100

  1982–83

  13,520

  103

  5,333

  110

  17,181

  103

  11,523

  81

  2,291

  28

  1983–84

  7,846

  57

  4,847

  96

  20,682

  119

  8,708

  59

  16,775

  198

  1983–84

  8,348

  61

  5,234

  103

  21,466

  123

  13,440

  91

  15,196

  179

  1984–85

  8,654

  60

  4,596

  86

  21,060

  115

  33,471

  215

  7,323

  82

  1984–85

  8,963

  62

  5,141

  97

  21,137

  116

  30,105

  193

  7,176

  81

  1985–86

  11,386

  74

  4,129

  73

  5,242

  27

  21,806

  132

  3,218

  34

  Source: Farm Business Survey.

  Notes— Pairs of years relate to an identical sample of farms. A major break in series occurred in 1978–79. It is not, therefore possible to make a meaningful comparison of the two periods. A further break occurred in 1982–83. The major differences in the periods are:

  Geographical coverage

  Breeding livestock stock appreciation

  Farm size and type determination

  Depreciation basis

  Definition full-time farm

  Mixed farms

  1967–68 to 1970–71

  England and Wales

  Included in NFI

  Standard man days

  Historic cost

  275 to 4100 SMD

  Distinct type

  1979–80 to 1982–83

  England

  Excluded from NFI

  Standard gross margin

  Current cost

  4 to 250 ESU1

  Included in all livestock

  620
  information on the estimated return on capital given in table M of the memorandum submitted by Her Majesty's Government to the Treasury and Civil Service Committee on the financial and economic consequences of United Kingdom membership of the European Communities (Session 1984–85, HC 57-II, page 56);

  (2) whether he will bring up to date the information on average United Kingdom farm-gate prices given in Annex V to the memorandum submitted by Her Majesty's Government to the Treasury and Civil Service Committee on the financial and economic consequences of United Kingdom membership of the European Communities (Session 1984–85, HC 57-II, page 53).

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  I shall write to the hon. Member.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will bring up to date the information on rent farm income on full-time farms given in table fl of the memorandum submitted by Her Majesty's Government to the Treasury and Civil Service Committee on the financial and economic consequences of the United Kingdom membership of the European Communities (Session 1984–85, HC 57-II page 38).

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  The information requested is given in the tables.
  621

  Geographical coverage

  Breeding livestock stock appreciation

  Farm size and type determination

  Depreciation basis

  Definition full-time farm

  Mixed farms

  1982–83 to 1985–86

  England

  Excluded from NFI

  Standard gross margin

  Current cost

  4 BSU2 and above except farm types asterisked 4 to 250 BSU

  Included in all livestock

  1 One ESU = 1000 EUA of standard gross margins at average 1972–74 values.

  2 One BSU = 2000 ECU of standard gross margins at average 1978–80 values.

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what is the estimated expenditure of his Department in the current year on management and computer consultancy.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  Estimated expenditure is likely to be in the region of £1 million.

  ('000 tonnes)

  1977

  1978

  1979

  1980

  1981

  1982

  1983

  1984

  1985

  1986

  Rapeseed

  Production

  142

  154

  198

  300

  340

  580

  562

  923

  891

  971

  Imports

  155

  73

  163

  137

  139

  38

  126

  67

  60

  258

  Exports

  5

  2

  1

  0

  1

  14

  106

  167

  295

  495

  Rapeseed Oil

  Imports

  1

  3

  15

  9

  16

  53

  64

  66

  65

  85

  Exports

  35

  17

  25

  18

  7

  2

  24

  28

  12

  13

  Community expenditure in United Kingdom (£ million)

  5

  5

  20

  36

  58

  58

  82

  64

  65

  88

  Notes:

  (1) Rapeseed data from annual review White Papers but Customs and Excise data used for 1986 trade.

  (2) Rapeseed oil data from FAO trade yearbooks for 1977–80 and Eurostat for 1981–86.

  (3) Expenditure data from FEOGA financial reports relates to rapeseed except that until 1982 expenditure on production aid for other oilseeds is included. There is no separate FEOGA expenditure on rapeseed oil.

  Agricultural Holdings
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (1) whether he will publish in the Official Report a table showing the number of agricultural/horticultural holdings in multiple ownership and/or the number of farmers/horticulturalists with more than one holding; and if he will provide such figures as he has available to show the concentration of ownership in terms of land per person rather than size of individual holdings;

  (2) whether he will bring up to date the information on the size and tenure of agricultural holdings given in the reply to the hon. Member for Great Grimsby on 22 July 1982, Official Report, column 252.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  I shall write to the hon. Member.

  EC (Expenditure)
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will publish in the Official Report a table showing for each common agricultural policy product the amount of public money spent in

  Oilseed Rape
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will publish in the Official Report a table showing the production of oilseed rape in the United Kingdom in each of the past 10 years together with imports and exports of oilseed rape and rapeseed oil; and if he will include a figure of the cost to public funds each year of producing oilseed rape and rapeseed oil.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  The information requested is as follows:

  1986–87 on each hectare or livestock unit in the United Kingdom in direct subventions, storage, export rebates, and so on.

  Mr. MacGregor
  Expenditure in 1986–87 on market regulation under the CAP is summarised by principle commodity in table 28 of the "Annual Review of Agriculture 1987" (Cm. 67). Details of crop areas and livestock numbers are given in table 3 of Cm. 67.

  Tomato Regime
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will bring up to date the information on the EEC tomato regime given in his reply to the hon. Member for Great Grimsby on 8 May 1985, Official Report, column 453.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  EEC production aid rates for tomato products are published in the Official Journal of the European Communities. Details for the marketing years 1985–86 and 1986–87 are listed in the following volumes which are in the Library of the House:

  L205 of 3.8.85 (Regulation 2222/85);

  L179 of 3.7.86 (Regulation 2077/86).
  623
  The cost to the Community budget for production aid for tomato products was 528·6 mecu in 1985–86 and 260·4 mecu in 1986–87. No surplus tomato products have been stored at Community expense.

  The information in respect of fresh tomatoes is as follows:

  Compensation for withdrawals

  Mecu

  1984–85

  2·60

  1985–86

  89·56

  Export refunds

  Mecu

  1983–84

  1·68

  1984–85

  1·73

  1985–86

  1

  1 Figures not yet available.

  Farm Rents and Land Prices
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will bring up to date the information on farm rents given in the written reply to the hon. Member for Great Grimsby of 5 March 1982, Official Report, column 269; and if he will add figures for land prices.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  The following table shows the average farm rents in England over the period 1961 to 1986 and average prices for agricultural land over the period 1961 to 1985, the latest years for which information is available.

  Year

  Farm Rents

  Average Land Prices1

  £/per hectare

  Index (1975 = 100)

  £/per hectare

  Index (1975 = 100)

  1961

  6·37

  31·44

  265

  23·56

  1962

  7·13

  35·19

  286

  25·42

  1963

  7·86

  38·80

  329

  29·24

  1964

  8·40

  41·86

  437

  38·84

  1965

  8·90

  43·93

  440

  39·11

  1966

  9·52

  46·99

  454

  40·36

  1967

  10·29

  50·79

  486

  43·20

  1968

  11·14

  54·99

  517

  45·96

  1969

  11·97

  59·08

  525

  46·67

  1970

  13·07

  64·51

  501

  44·53

  1971

  14·27

  70·43

  571

  50·76

  1972

  15·17

  74·88

  1,161

  103·20

  1973

  16·13

  79·62

  1,557

  138·40

  1974

  17·49

  86·33

  1,273

  113·16

  1975

  20·26

  100·00

  1,125

  100·00

  1976

  24·66

  121·72

  1,349

  119·91

  1977

  29·80

  147·09

  1,909

  169·69

  1978

  35·60

  175·72

  2,434

  216·36

  1979

  42·13

  207·95

  3,129

  278·13

  1980

  50·01

  246·84

  3,316

  294·76

  1981

  58·36

  288·06

  3,283

  291·82

  1982

  66·14

  326·46

  3,535

  314·22

  1983

  73·93

  364·91

  3,631

  322·76

  1984

  81·27

  401·14

  3,788

  336·71

  1985

  88·01

  434·40

  3,654

  324·80

  1986

  295·75

  2472·61

  1 All sales—vacant possession and tenanted.

  2 Provisional.

  Mediterranean Products
  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will publish in the Official
  624
  Report a table showing for each of the years 1984–86 the production of Mediterranean products on the same basis as given in his written reply to the hon. Member for Great Grimsby dated 20 May 1985, Official Report, columns 346–47.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  The information requested is shown in the table.

  EC10

  Spain

  Portugal

  Olive oil (thousand tonnes)

  Usable production1

  1983–84

  1,255

  266

  16

  1984–85

  615

  658

  75

  1985–862

  1,017

  380

  30

  Oranges (thousand tonnes)

  Harvested production

  1984

  2,362

  1,339

  98

  1985

  2,773

  1,945

  155

  19862

  3,025

  2,104

  169

  Wine (million hectolitres)

  Usable production

  1983–84

  168

  31

  9

  1984–85

  148

  34

  9

  1985–86

  143

  33

  10

  1986–872

  162

  37

  8

  Source: Eurostat and Commission.

  1 Olive oil is a biennial crop and production can fluctuate substantially from one year to the next.

  2 Provisional.

  Hospitality
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how much has been spent by his Department on official hospitality in each of the last two financial years.

  Mr. MacGregor
  The information requested is as follows:

  £

  1985–86

  38,000

  1986–87

  139,000

  Expenditure in 1986–87 included £101,000 spent on hospitality as a direct result of the United Kingdom's presidency of the EEC.

  Intervention (Expenditure)
  Mr. Salmond
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what proportion of Intervention Board for Agricultural Produce expenditure for the years (a) 1985–86 and (b) 1986–87 was devoted to (i) the storage of agricultural stocks, (ii) the purchase of agricultural commodities for intervention and (iii) other Intervention Board for Agricultural Produce expenditure.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  Proportions of the Intervention Board's gross expenditure were:

  £'000

  (a)

  (b)

  1985–86

  1986–87 (provisional)

  Gross expenditure

  2,189,726

  1,716,022

  (i) Storage and related costs

  124,595

  128,521

  (per cent, gross expenditure)

  (5·7)

  (7·5)

  625

  (a)

  (b)

  1985–86

  1986–87 (provisional)

  (ii) Purchases

  845,339

  405,768

  (per cent, gross expenditure)

  (38·6)

  (23·6)

  (iii) Other expenditure

  1,219,792

  1,181,733

  (per cent, gross expenditure)

  (55·7)

  (68·9)

  Expenditure
  Mr. Salmond
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what proportion of expenditure controlled by the Agricultural Departments is paid directly to producers; and if he will estimate what proportion of the total benefits of such spending accrues to (a) producers, (b) merchants and (c) processors.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  The proportion of expenditure covered by the Supply Estimates (including administration costs) for the Agricultural Departments in 1986–87 which was paid directly to producers was of the order of 50 per cent. Other areas of expenditure such as that on animal disease, research, advice and education benefit producers although not paid directly to them. Some 15 per cent. of gross expenditure by the Intervention Board for Agricultural Produce in 1986–87 on market regulation under the CAP was paid to producers under the variable premium schemes for beef and sheep. Most other IBAP payments are to processors and traders. It is not possible to provide a detailed breakdown of the benefits of expenditure in terms of categories of beneficiaries.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what is his estimate of the cost to the average British family with two children of support for agriculture in the United Kingdom and in the rest of the European Economic Community and world food prices.

  Mr. MacGregor
  Information on expenditure on agricultural support is not available in the form requested.

  Imported Food Products
  Mr. Amess
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will make a statement on quality controls on imported food products.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  There is no differentiation between quality controls (food labelling and food composition requirements) applied to imported food products or to home produced ones. Regulations are enforced by local authorities.

  Organic Produce
  Mr. Harris
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if any progress has been made in the development of production standards for organic produce; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. MacGregor
  The chairman of Food from Britain has informed me that his council has now agreed to establish on a voluntary basis a United Kingdom register of organic food standards (UKROFS). The tasks will be (i) to set production standards for organic produce tied to a United Kingdom organic logo and a voluntary code of production practice; (ii) to consider applications from organic sector bodies to check that their standards meet such minimum standards and are supported by adequate 626
  inspection arrangements; (iii) to establish a register of individual organic producers whereby registration provides a right to use the logo; (iv) to arrange for adequate monitoring of inspection arrangements and for the inspection of the farms of those producers not linked to a recognised organic sector body.

  It is intended that UKROFS would be supervised on behalf of FFB by a board to be appointed by the council and that the operation should be largely self-funding and will not absorb any FFB funds. Detailed plans will now be drawn up by FFB in discussion with officials and a further announcement will be made later.

  On behalf of Agriculture Ministers I should like to welcome this important development which, it is intended, will extend to the whole of the United Kingdom. We hope that domestic producers will seize the opportunities now being offered by the increased consumer demand for organic produce. For some time it has been recognised that the establishment of production standards for such produce was a key factor in such a development. I understand that the proposals now agreed by the FFB council in broad outline are likely to be consistent with proposals on organic production currently being developed by the EC Commission. It is our hope that these will lead eventually to the mutual recognition of national arrangements not only between member states but also involving third countries.

  Farmed Deer
  Mr. Curry
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he is yet in a position to respond to the report from the Farm Animal Welfare Council on the welfare of farmed deer.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  We have carefully considered this report, following the many comments which have been received. In the main, we agree with the recommendations from the council. In particular we accept the proposal that the slaughter of deer be permitted in abattoirs provided there are suitable safeguards. Full details are being sent out to all interested organisations and a copy of our responses has been placed in the Library of the House.

  Food Labelling
  Miss Emma Nicholson
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food when he expects to make regulations on the labelling of foods with their fat content, and to issue guidelines on the voluntary declaration of the nutrient content of food.

  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will consider introducing an official standard of labelling designed to provide consumers with nutritional information about dairy products.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  Since we circulated our proposals for comment early in 1986, my officials have been in extensive discussions with the Commission of the European Communities about the compatibility of our proposals for fat content labelling with Community law. Those discussions are continuing. We had originally intended that guidelines for full nutrition labelling should be issued in parallel with fat content labelling regulations, but in view of the delay, and the increasing need for a standard approach in the market place to the provision of
  627
  nutrition information on food labels, I have decided to issue now the guidelines for voluntary nutrition labelling of food. The final version of the guidelines takes account of the comments received on the draft circulated in February 1986.

  It is my intention in the longer term that the form in which nutrition information provided voluntarily on food labels is given should be controlled by law, but it is sensible to defer any decisions on this until we have seen these guidelines in action for a while and we have more details of the EC Commission's known plans for a Community system of voluntary nutrition labelling. In the meantime, I commend the approach set out in the guidelines, particularly to food manufacturers and retailers responsible for nutrition labelling, in the interests of ensuring that consumers receive nutrition information in a standard form.

  I am also circulating for comment proposals for minor amendments to the Food Labelling Regulations 1984 to ensure that those who voluntarily provide statements of the basic nutrient content of foods for the benefit of consumers do not offend against those provisions of the regulations which protect consumers against misleading claims. These proposals are being circulated to those organisations representative of interests which will be substantially affected by them, as required by the Food Act 1984.

  I have arranged for copies of both documents to be placed in the Library of the House.

  Pesticides
  Mr. Ron Davies
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if, in relation to the pesticide DDT, he will (a) give his estimate of the amount of DDT which is still held on farms in the United Kingdom, (b) make arrangements for the collection and safe disposal of any remaining stocks of DDT on farms in the United Kingdom and (c) issue advice to farmers on the safe disposal of any remaining stocks of DDT on farms in the United Kingdom; when he expects to produce a revised version of MAFF booklet 2198 on guidelines for the disposal of unwanted pesticides and containers on farms and holdings; and whether the revised booklet will be made available throughout the United Kingdom.

  Mr. Donald Thompson
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: There should be no significant stocks of products containing the pesticide DDT on farms in the United Kingdom. The last permitted use was withdrawn in October 1984 after extensive notice, and since 6 October 1986 it has been an offence to store or use any pesticide in Great Britain which does not have an approval under the Control of Pesticides Regulations 1986. It is the responsibility of the owner to dispose safely of unwanted pesticides.

  Advice on disposal is given both in general terms and in specific cases. Farmers can ask suppliers to take back surplus pesticide. If this is not practicable the local authority may be asked to collect the pesticide. If the local authority is unable to do so, the name of a private contractor will be available either from the local authority or from the National Association of Waste Disposal Contractors.

  MAFF booklet 2198 on guidelines for the disposal of unwanted pesticides and containers on farms and holdings
  628
  continues to be available while a statutory code of practice for Great Britain on the agricultural and horticultural use of pesticides is prepared under the provisions of part Ill of the Food and Environment Protection Act 1985. The Great Britain code will be generally available when it is published during 1988. A separate code will be made for Northern Ireland.

  Air Pollution
  Dr. David Clark
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether his Department is looking into the effects of air pollution on crop production; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Gummer
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: My Department takes an interest in research into the effects of air pollution, including the effects on growing plants. However, results from the national air pollution monitoring network, and from other research, suggest that in general air pollution has no discernible effect upon agriculture.

  Forestry
  Mr. Ron Davies
  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what is the total area of land which was referred to his Department by the Forestry Commission under the forestry grant consultation procedures for each of the years ended 31 March 1986 and 31 March 1987; and if he will list in the Official Report in respect of each of the area offices of his Ministry, the area of land which it advised was (a) acceptable to award forestry grant and (b) inappropriate to afforest on agricultural grounds.

  Mr. Gummer
  This information is not held centrally, and I shall write to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

NORTHERN IRELAND

  Sampson Report
  Mr. Alton
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he intends to publish the findings of the Sampson report into the Royal Ulster Constabulary; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Tom King
  I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave to my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Burton (Mr. Lawrence) on 15 July. In keeping with normal practice with police reports of this kind. Mr. Sampson's report will not be published.

  Medical Staff
  Rev. Martin Smyth
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will publish figures showing average pay for speech therapists, clinical psychologists, biochemists, physicists, hospital pharmacists and opticians in Northern Ireland for the last five years.

  Mr. Needham
  Information is not readily available in the form requested but the maximum point on the basic salary scale for staff employed by Health and Social Services boards in each of the professions was as follows:

  1982

  1984

  1985

  1986

  Speech Therapists

  6,074

  6,353

  6,659

  7,056

  Clinical Psychologists

  8,349

  8,725

  9,432

  9,996

  629

  1982

  1984

  1985

  1986

  Biochemists

  8,349

  8,725

  9,432

  9,996

  Physicists

  8,349

  8,725

  9,432

  9,996

  Pharmacists

  8,096

  8,438

  8,835

  10,344

  Ophthalmic Opticians

  8,220

  8,590

  8,990

  9,529

  There has not yet been a pay settlement for any of these professions for the current year.

  Rev. Martin Smyth
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what pay awards were made in the current year to each of the graduate professions within the National Health Service; and what representations he has received since these awards.

  Mr. Needham
  A pay award of 8·25 per cent. has been made in the current year to hospital and community medical and dental staff. Pay increases for other graduate professions have not been agreed yet. No representations have been received.

  General Election (Voting)
  Rev. Martin Smyth
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what representations he has received from individuals who were unable to vote in the recent general election because they did not have one of the prescribed documents; and whether he plans to make any modifications to the list of prescribed documents required before issue of a ballot paper.

  Mr. Stanley
  The Northern Ireland Office is not aware of any such representations other than in two letters received from the hon. Member. I understand, however, that a number of representations have been made to the Chief Electoral Officer. We have no current plans for changes to the list of specified documents, but we are reviewing the arrangements in the light of recent experience.

  Special Education
  Rev. Martin Smyth
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on his policy on providing for the special educational needs of pupils in schools, and the advice given by his Department to education and library boards as to how they should best meet these needs; and how many children in each of the education and library boards have been assessed as having special educational needs.

  Dr. Mawhinney
  Articles 6 and 32 of the Education and Libraries (NI) Order 1986 place the duty of meeting the special educational needs of pupils in schools on the education and library boards.

  Detailed advice was issued to Education and Library Boards in DENI Circular 1987/21, "Education and Children with Special Educational Needs". I have arranged for a copy to be placed in the Library.

  Figures are not yet available of the numbers of children assessed as having special educational needs. The latest available figures relate to pupils determined as handicapped at January 1986 and are shown in the following table.
  630

  Education and Library Board

  Number of pupils

  Belfast

  1,309

  Western

  821

  North-Eastern

  760

  South-Eastern

  860

  Southern

  447

  Total

  4,197

  Rev. Martin Smyth
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what additional resources have been provided by his Department to meet the special educational needs of children in Northern Ireland schools; and if he will make a statement.

  Dr. Mawhinney
  As a result of the provisions of the Education (NI) Order 1987 transferring from 1 April 1987, responsibility for the education of mentally handicapped children to the Education sector, £4 million capital funding has initially been made available for new and improved accommodation and a further £2·8 million has been provided for additional recurrent expenditure.

  Rev. Martin Smyth
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what is his policy towards the provision of higher education for children over the age of 16 years with special educational needs; and if he will make a statement.

  Dr. Mawhinney
  The Government's policy is that the educational provision made in institutions of further and higher education in Northern Ireland should be available, where practicable, to young people with special educational needs who have the capacity, motivation and maturity to benefit from the courses provided.

  Community Employment Schemes
  Rev. Martin Smyth
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what is the total number of people employed in action for community employment schemes.

  Mr. Viggers
  5,850 (at end of June 1987).

  Rev. Martin Smyth
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what targets for numbers employed under action for community employment schemes have been set for 1987–88 and 1988–89.

  Mr. Viggers
  The target in both years is to achieve an average of 6,200 in employment under the scheme.

  Disabled People
  Rev. Martin Smyth
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether there is a 3 per cent. quota rule for employing registered disabled workers in Northern Ireland.

  Mr. Viggers
  Yes, such a quota applies for employers with 20 or more workers.

  Rev. Martin Smyth
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many (a) disabled people and (b) registered disabled people are employed in action for community employment schemes in Northern Ireland: and what percentage this represents.

  Mr. Viggers
  47 disabled people are currently employed under ACE. It is not known how many of those are registered disabled. This represents 0·8 per cent of ACE employees.

  Anglo-Irish Agreement
  Mr. Canavan
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what recent discussions he has had with representatives of the Government of the Republic of Ireland about the Anglo-Irish Agreement.

  Mr. Tom King
  I last met Irish Ministers at a meeting of the Intergovernmental Conference on 16 July. As is set out in the joint statement issued after the meeting, a copy of which is in the Library, we discussed a range of matters within the field of activity of the conference, including security and economic co-operation and equality of opportunity in employment.

  Employment Equality
  Mr. John David Taylor
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether the joint statement by the Anglo-Irish Intergovernmental Conference on 16 July in London, promising affirmative action to promote employment equality in Northern Ireland, applies to (a) companies registered in Northern Ireland, (b) companies registered in the Republic of Ireland and trading with Northern Ireland and (c) companies registered in Great Britain and trading within Northern Ireland.

  Mr. Viggers
  My right hon. Friend announced on 15 July that a new guide to the effective practice of equality of opportunity in employment would be published in September. It will provide guidance on affirmative action for all employers in Northern Ireland, regardless of a company's place of registration.

  Disabled Persons
  Mr. Tom Clarke
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will be consulting disablement organisations in Northern Ireland to ascertain their views as to when it would be appropriate to introduce the provisions of the Disabled Persons (Services, Consultation and Representation) Act 1986 in Northern Ireland.

  Mr. Needham
  Consultations are currently under way with Health and Social Services and education and library boards.

  Initial comments on the Act have also been invited from the Northern Ireland Council on Disability which acts as an umbrella organisation for voluntary groups concerned with the disabled.

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what is the estimated expenditure of his Department in the current year on management and computer consultancy.

  Mr. Viggers
  I shall write to my hon. Friend.

  ACE Programme
  Mr. Hume
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he is satisfied that the management and monitoring of the ACE programme in Northern Ireland is appropriate.

  Mr. Viggers
  Yes.
  632
  Mr. Hume
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement indicating whether, pursuant to his interim statement on 15 July, Official Report, column 490–1, on equality of opportunity in employment, there will be further consideration given to these issues particularly in respect of those with disabilities and in relation to sex discrimination.

  Mr. Viggers
  Yes, arrangements are being made for meetings with key interest groups, including the Equal Opportunity Commission and the Northern Ireland Council on Disability.

  Mr. Hume
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement indicating what representations were received from or on behalf of the Northern Ireland Council on Disability on Equality of Opportunity in Employment and the Government's response to these to date; and what plans exist for further consideration of or consultations on the matters raised by the Northern Ireland Council on Disability.

  Mr. Viggers
  The Northern Ireland Council on Disability made a submission dated 31 March 1987 in response to the consultative paper "Equality of Opportunity in Employment in Northern Ireland." In the period to 6 July 1987, eight right hon. and hon. Members have written to urge that consideration be given to the Council's views. Right hon. and hon. Members were assured that the fullest consideration would be given to the Northern Ireland Council on Disability's views, consistent with the necessity to take account of all the views put forward in response to the consultative paper. To allow further discussion of their submission, a meeting between the Northern Ireland Council on Disability and departmental officials has been arranged for mid-August.

  Security Statistics
  Mr. McNamara
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether the security statistics for the second half of 1986 are now available, together with details of persons charged with terrorist-type activities and convictions for scheduled offences for the year.

  Mr. Stanley
  [pursuant to his reply, 20 July 1987]: Yes. The statistics together with those since 1971 are as follows:

  Statistics on Security

  Part I—Statistics of Terrorist Activity.

  Yearly totals for 1971–1986.

  Statistics for terrorist activity comprise the following:

  (i) Number of shooting incidents.

  (ii) Number of explosions.

  (iii) Number of bombs and devices neutralised.

  (iv) Weight of explosives in bombs and devices neutralised.

  (v) Number of armed robberies and amount stolen.

  (vi) Number of malicious fires.

  (vii) Number of deaths and injuries of RUC/ RUCR', Army and civilians.

  Part II—Statistics of Security Forces' Activity.

  Yearly totals for 1971–1986.

  Statistics for security forces' activity comprise the following:

  (i) Number of houses searched.

  (ii) Number of weapons, pounds of explosives and rounds of ammunition found.

  (iii) Number of people charged with terrorist type offences (murder, attempted murder, explosives offences, firearms offences, armed robbery and other offences relating to the security situation, e.g. arson, membership of illegal organisation etc.)

  633
  Part III—Statistics of Persons Convicted of Scheduled Offences.

  Six-monthly total for July-December 1986.

  Statistics on security

  Part I—Statistics of terrorist activity

  Yearly figures: 1971 to 1978

  1971

  1972

  1973

  1974

  1975

  1976

  1977

  1978

  Shooting incidents1

  1,756

  10,628

  5,018

  3,206

  1,803

  1,908

  1,081

  755

  Explosions

  1,022

  1,382

  978

  685

  399

  766

  366

  455

  Bombs neutralised

  493

  471

  542

  428

  236

  426

  169

  178

  Weight of explosives in lbs2

  Explosions

  10,972

  47,462

  47,472

  46,435

  13,753

  17,596

  2,839

  5,343

  Neutralised

  3,001

  19,978

  32,450

  27,094

  11,159

  16,252

  2,188

  5,860·5

  Armed robberies

  437

  1,931

  1,215

  1,231

  1,201

  813

  591

  442

  Amount stolen

  £303,787

  £790,687

  £612,015

  £572,951

  £572,105

  £545,497

  £446,988

  £232,650

  Malicious tires3 4

  —

  —

  587

  636

  248

  453

  432

  269

  Deaths

  Civilian

  115

  322

  171

  166

  216

  245

  69

  50

  Army/UDR

  48

  129

  66

  35

  20

  29

  29

  21

  RUC/RUC'R'

  11

  17

  13

  15

  11

  23

  14

  10

  Injuries:

  Civilian

  1,838

  3,813

  1,812

  1,680

  2,044

  2,162

  1,027

  548

  Army/UDR

  390

  578

  548

  483

  167

  264

  188

  135

  RUC/RUC'R'

  315

  485

  291

  235

  263

  303

  183

  302

  Yearly figures 1979–1986

  1979

  1980

  1981

  1982

  1983

  1984

  1985

  1986

  Shooting incidents1

  728

  642

  815 (327)

  382 (165)

  290 (134)

  230 (104)

  196 (41)

  285 (107

  Explosions

  422

  280

  398

  219

  266

  193

  148

  172

  Bombs neutralised

  142

  120

  131

  113

  101

  55

  67

  82

  Weight of explosives in lbs2

  11,181

  9,059

  9,261

  11,199

  6,923

  8,545

  11,711

  11,309

  Explosions neutralised

  4,530

  6,405

  9,168

  7,300

  7,503

  6,114

  7,715

  9,463

  Armed robberies

  434

  412

  587

  580

  622

  627

  459

  724

  Amount stolen

  568,359

  496,825

  854,929

  1,392,202

  830,258

  701,903

  655,690

  1,207,152

  Malicious fires3 4

  315

  275

  536

  499

  528

  840

  740

  906

  Deaths:

  Civilian

  51

  50

  57

  57

  44

  36

  25

  37

  Army/UDR

  48

  16

  23

  28

  15

  19

  6

  12

  RUC/RUC 'R'

  14

  9

  21

  12

  18

  9

  23

  12

  Injuries:

  Civilian

  557

  530

  878

  328

  280

  513

  468

  773

  Army/UDR

  153

  77

  140

  98

  88

  86

  33

  55

  RUC/RUC 'R'

  165

  194

  332

  99

  142

  267

  415

  622

  1 Figures in ( ) refer to shots heard only and not included in the total.

  2 Estimated weight only.

  3 No figure for April-June 1981.

  4 Consolidated figures not available for earlier years.

  Statistics on security

  Part II—Statistics of security forces' activity

  Yearly figures 1971–86

  1971

  1972

  1973

  1974

  1975

  1976

  1977

  1978

  Houses searched1

  17,262

  36,617

  74,556

  71,914

  30,092

  34,939

  20,724

  15,462

  Finds

  Firearms

  717

  1,264

  1,595

  1,260

  825

  837

  590

  400

  Ammunition (rds)

  157,944

  183,410

  187,399

  147,202

  73,604

  70,306

  52,091

  43,512

  Explosives

  2,748

  41,488

  38,418

  26,120

  11,565

  21,714

  3,809

  2,108

  634 635

  Persons charged with terrorist type offences2

  31 July–31 December 1972

  1973

  1974

  1975

  1976

  1977

  1978

  Murder

  13

  71

  77

  138

  120

  131

  60

  Attempted murder

  16

  85

  76

  88

  121

  135

  79

  Firearms offences

  242

  631

  545

  460

  353

  301

  225

  Explosives offences

  86

  236

  161

  100

  215

  146

  79

  Theft act

  111

  186

  239

  314

  188

  203

  151

  Other

  63

  205

  276

  97

  279

  392

  249

  TOTAL

  531

  1,414

  1,374

  1,197

  1,276

  1,308

  843

  1 Includes occupied and unoccupied houses searched.

  2 These figures are not available in consolidated form for earlier years.

  Yearly figures 1979–86

  1979

  1980

  1981

  1982

  1983

  1984

  1985

  1986

  Houses searched1

  6,452

  4,106

  4,104

  4,045

  1,497

  1,282

  812

  1,273

  Finds

  Firearms

  301

  203

  409

  317

  200

  197

  238

  215

  Ammunition

  46,280

  28,078

  47,127

  41,452

  32,451

  17,211

  13,748

  29,061

  Explosives

  1,996

  1,810

  7,536

  5,066

  3,762

  8,534

  7,373

  5,386

  Persons charged with terrorist type offences2

  Murder

  45

  63

  48

  50

  75

  41

  24

  12

  Attempted murder

  39

  59

  72

  96

  60

  68

  52

  28

  Firearms offences

  177

  112

  155

  173

  150

  155

  105

  128

  Explosives offences

  40

  39

  39

  41

  48

  21

  37

  31

  Theft act

  159

  128

  158

  130

  119

  94

  65

  70

  Other

  210

  149

  446

  196

  161

  149

  239

  386

  Total

  670

  550

  918

  686

  613

  528

  522

  655

  1 Includes occupied and unoccupied houses searched.

  2 These figures are not available in consolidated form for earlier years.

  Statistics on security (Part III)—July-December 1986

  Notes on the tables:

  (1) The offence classifications are based on those used by the Crown and Peace Office in their annual return.

  (2) The tables relate to persons convicted at the Belfast Crown Court. This covers all scheduled offences tried on indictment.

  (3) Some jury trials are included in cases where the Attorney General certified out of the scheduled mode of trial, ie non-terrrorist serious offences.

  (4) Where a person had been convicted of more than one offence only the most serious or that which received the longest sentence is recorded in the statistics.

  Convictions for Scheduled Offences—1 July-31 December 1986

  Offence

  Number convicted

  Non-Custodial sentence

  Young Offenders Centre Training Schools

  Less than 5 years

  5 years and less than 7 years

  7 years and less than 10 years

  10 years and less than 15 years

  15 years and less than 20 years

  20 years and over

  Life

  Murder

  5

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  5

  Attempted Murder

  2

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  1

  1

  0

  0

  Conspiracy to Murder

  6

  0

  0

  0

  0

  2

  4

  0

  0

  0

  Manslaughter

  7

  0

  2

  0

  1

  4

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Wounding with intent to do grievous bodily harm

  18

  4

  6

  6

  2

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Causing grievous bodily harm

  6

  0

  0

  6

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Assault occasioning grievous bodily harm

  4

  2

  0

  2

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Causing Explosion

  2

  1

  0

  0

  0

  1

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Possessing explosives with intent

  12

  4

  0

  1

  0

  1

  5

  0

  1

  0

  Other explosives offences

  1

  0

  0

  0

  1

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Possessing a firearm with intent

  23

  7

  1

  6

  3

  1

  5

  0

  0

  0

  Possessing a firearm

  7

  4

  1

  2

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Carrying a firearm with intent

  2

  1

  1

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Other major firearms offences

  3

  3

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  636 637

  Offence

  Number convicted

  Non-Custodial sentence

  Young Offenders Centre Training Schools

  Less than 5 years

  5 years and less than 7 years

  7 year and less than 10 years

  10 years and less than 15 years

  15 years and less than 20 years

  20 years and over

  Life

  Robbery

  65

  22

  9

  28

  4

  0

  2

  0

  0

  0

  Unlawful collection of information

  2

  0

  0

  1

  1

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Kidnapping and false imprisonment

  7

  1

  0

  5

  1

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Hijacking

  14

  7

  3

  4

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Arson

  27

  4

  10

  12

  1

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Petrol bomb offences

  30

  9

  12

  9

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Criminal damage

  3

  3

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Assisting offenders

  2

  1

  0

  1

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Intimidation

  2

  1

  1

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Withholding information

  5

  5

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Common Law riot

  2

  0

  2

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  0

  Total

  257

  79

  48

  83

  14

  9

  17

  1

  1

  5

  Note: Where a person has been convicted of more than one offence only the most serious or that which received the longest sentence is recorded in the statistics.

  Rev. Martin Smyth
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what arrangements exist for the training of teachers in respect of meeting special educational needs in Northern Ireland; how many teachers in Northern Ireland are currently qualified to teach children with special educational needs; and what changes he plans in this provision.

  Dr. Mawhinney
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: All courses of initial teacher training include tuition on the identification and handling of pupils with learning difficulties. In addition specialist training for teachers wishing to concentrate in this field is available by means of the Department's in service training support scheme. There are no plans for change in current provision but the Department of Education will continue to build on its programme of in service training to ensure the Province's needs continue to be met.

  School transport

  School milk and meals1

  Year

  Cash £000's

  Real terms £000's

  Index

  Cash £000's

  Real terms £000's

  Index

  1978–79

  6,192

  12,037

  100

  15,641

  30,406

  100

  1979–80

  7,843

  13,043

  108

  18,176

  30,226

  99

  1980–81

  10,438

  14,640

  122

  16,974

  23,808

  78

  1981–82

  11,418

  14,584

  121

  16,210

  20,704

  68

  1982–83

  12,479

  14,856

  123

  17,828

  21,223

  70

  1983–84

  13,146

  14,989

  125

  20,072

  22,886

  75

  1984–85

  13,758

  15,034

  125

  20,828

  22,760

  75

  1985–86

  15,240

  15,700

  130

  22,949

  23,642

  78

  1986–87

  15,477

  15,477

  129

  23,841

  23,841

  78

  1 Expenditure figures for school milk and meals are not recorded separately.

  Land Restoration (Grants)
  Mr. Ron Davies
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, what was the total expenditure by way of grant-aid under the agriculture improvement scheme on land restoration in the Province, in the financial years 1985–86 and 1986–87; and whether such grants are paid in respect of heathland and moorland.

  Mr. Viggers
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: The information is:
  638
  The information on qualified teachers is not available in the form requested but there are 504 full-time teachers serving in special schools and 803 teachers in receipt of a special class allowance in primary and secondary schools.

  Education Costs
  Mr. Clay
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will publish a table showing the amount spent by local authorities on (a) school transport and (b) school meals in the latest year for which figures are available; and what are the comparable figures for each year since 1978–79 in cash terms and real terms using 1986–87 prices and using an index of 100 for 1978–79.

  Dr. Mawhinney
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: Expenditure by the education and library boards for the years in question is as follows:

  £

  1985–86

  Nil

  1986–87

  6,600

  Grant is not paid in respect of heathland and moorland.

  Farm Wastes (Pollution)
  Mr. Ron Davies
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many incidents of water pollution by farm wastes were recorded in each of the years 1980 to

  639
  1986, and in 1987 to date, in Northern Ireland; how many of these incidents were attributable to pollution by sileage effluent, and by slurry; and how many of these incidents were the subject of warning letters and prosecutions.

  Mr. Needham
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: The table gives details of recorded water pollution incidents arising from agriculture sources for the years 1980 to 1986 inclusive. The figures show the action taken by the Department of the Environment for Northern Ireland for those cases referred to it for consideration for prosecution under the Water Act (Northern Ireland) 1972. The Foyle Fisheries Commission and the Fisheries Conservancy Board for Northern Ireland have taken prosecution action under the Foyle Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1952 or the Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1966 respectively in each of those years but no information is readily available on the pollution sources. Figures for 1987 incidents are based on incomplete returns for the first quarter.

  Slurry—Water Act (NI) 1972

  Silage—Water Act (NI) 1972

  Year

  Number of incidents

  Prosecutions

  Warning letters

  Number of incidents

  Prosecutions

  Warning letters

  1980

  355

  9

  —

  232

  6

  —

  1981

  321

  8

  —

  125

  1

  2

  1982

  326

  —

  —

  135

  5

  —

  1983

  357

  2

  2

  420

  60

  14

  1984

  443

  3

  17

  157

  1

  16

  1985

  513

  13

  12

  418

  26

  28

  1986

  393

  19

  7

  283

  37

  26

  1987

  51

  —

  2

  1

  —

  —

  Agriculture Schemes
  Mr. Ron Davies
  asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what was the total expenditure by way of grant-aid on land reclamation in the Province, and the number of payments made, in the financial year 1986–87, under (a) the farm capital grant scheme, (b) the farm and horticulture development scheme, (c) the agriculture and horticulture grant scheme and (d) the agriculture and horticulture development scheme.

  Mr. Viggers
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: Estimates of expenditure and number of payments are:

  Grant £

  Number of payments

  A. Farm Capital Grant

  19

  1

  B. Farm and Horticulture Development

  28,205

  65

  C. Agriculture and Horticultural Grant

  808,146

  924

  D. Agriculture and Horticultural Development

  280,625

  227

  Totals

  1,116,995

  1,217

WALES

  Welsh Language
  Mr. Butler
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will make a statement on the operation of the opt-out proposals on Welsh-medium education.

  Mr. Wyn Roberts
  We shall be publishing shortly a consultative document seeking views on our proposals for grant maintained schools. These proposals will apply equally to Welsh medium schools.

  Welsh Language
  Mr. Wigley
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales in which circumstances local planning authorities may consider the Welsh language as a factor in decisons relating to planning permission; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Grist
  Local planning authorities are required in dealing with a planning application to have regard to the provisions of the development plan, so far as these are material to the application, and to any other material considerations. Policies which relate to the character and way of life of a community, including the needs and interests of the Welsh language, may properly be among the provisions or considerations material to an application.

  Mr. Wigley
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales what guidance he has given to local planning authorities on the consideration of the Welsh language as a factor in decisions relating to planning permission; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Grist
  None.

  Land Authority for Wales
  Mr. Gwilym Jones
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales what was the profit achieved by the Land Authority for Wales on the nine most successful transactions in the three years to 31 March 1985; and how that compares with each other group of nine transactions in order of profitability in the same period.

  Mr. Grist
  The information is as follows:

  Percentage of purchase and improvement cost

  Gross profit £

  Group 1

  1

  3,670

  9,250

  2

  2,395

  575,000

  3

  1,619

  600

  4

  850

  747,200

  5

  819

  88,300

  6

  757

  1,300

  7

  724

  140,500

  8

  683

  444,600

  9

  681

  13,900

  Group 2

  10

  542

  417,400

  11

  511

  27,100

  12

  484

  40,000

  13

  378

  15,400

  14

  337

  478,000

  15

  320

  31,200

  16

  293

  20,900

  17

  290

  5,900

  18

  273

  3,100

  Group 3

  19

  263

  245,000

  20

  238

  24,200

  21

  233

  14,600

  22

  213

  18,400

  23

  193

  79,100

  24

  189

  600

  25

  178

  337,000

  26

  153

  45,300

  27

  151

  152,000

  641

  Percentage of purchase and improvement cost

  Gross profit £

  Group 4

  28

  150

  25,400

  29

  136

  57,600

  30

  136

  57,500

  31

  133

  14,300

  32

  129

  83,900

  33

  114

  4,900

  34

  113

  2,600

  35

  111

  18,900

  36

  106

  6,700

  Group 5

  37

  103

  1,000

  38

  100

  100

  39

  93

  505,000

  40

  92

  8,200

  41

  84

  20,500

  42

  70

  308,000

  43

  70

  54,100

  44

  68

  148,500

  45

  65

  58,800

  Group 6

  46

  63

  16,900

  47

  58

  161,100

  48

  56

  16,000

  49

  55

  47,500

  50

  55

  30,200

  51

  53

  33,500

  52

  51

  160,000

  53

  51

  300

  54

  50

  100

  Group 7

  55

  47

  900

  56

  43

  39,000

  57

  39

  72,400

  58

  39

  30,600

  59

  39

  10,400

  60

  33

  17,300

  61

  33

  16,200

  62

  31

  5,100

  1982–83

  1983–84

  1984–85

  1985–86

  1986–87

  £'000

  £'000

  £'000

  £'000

  £'000

  1. Asset Value (ie Land Bank)

  At Cost

  8,788

  8,310

  8,656

  14,882

  10,610

  At Market Value

  15,220

  14,211

  14,185

  22,707

  17,387

  2. Turnover

  4,145

  5,895

  3,943

  5,002

  9,079

  3. Net Worth

  9,296

  9,457

  9,637

  13,010

  13,441

  Mr. Murphy
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales (1) if, in the light of the critical comments made in the recent Public Accounts Committee report on some of the activities of the Land Authority for Wales, he intends to review the future activities of the authority and to investigate ways by which it can be made more effective and accountable; and if he will make a statement;

  (2) if, in the light of the recent recommendation by the Public Accounts Committee that the Land Authority for Wales should review the extent to which developers may be profiting disproportionately from the authority's activities, he will take steps to ensure that, in its dealings with the Cwmbran development corporation over the next few months, the authority will work closely with Torfaen borough council; and if he will make a statement;
  642

  Percentage of purchase and improvement cost

  Gross profit £

  63

  27

  7,100

  Group 8

  64

  27

  6,000

  65

  26

  99,000

  66

  26

  14,000

  67

  25

  7,600

  68

  25

  6,000

  69

  23

  3,800

  70

  20

  74,700

  71

  20

  3,600

  72

  18

  5,800

  Group 9

  73

  16

  240,800

  74

  15

  60,000

  75

  15

  54,700

  76

  9

  2,000

  77

  4

  1,100

  Group 10

  78

  1—

  23,500

  79

  1—

  13,500

  80

  1—

  400

  81

  1—

  100

  82

  1—

  10

  Gross Loss

  Group 11

  83

  -8

  -6,200

  84

  -13

  -5,300

  85

  -15

  -17,000

  1 Residual income received from miscellaneous sites disposed of in earlier years.

  Mr. Gwilym Jones
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales what was the asset value, turnover and net worth of the Land Authority for Wales for each of the last five financial years; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Grist
  The information is:

  (3) if, in the light of the conclusions of the recent Public Accounts Committee report on the Land Authority for Wales, he will investigate means by which the authority will work more closely with local planning authorities in Wales in future; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Grist
  I expect to receive shortly the Report of a comprehensive Financial Management and Policy review of the Land Authority for Wales. I shall be giving careful consideration to the future of the Authority and its role in the light of the findings of the review.

  Planning Appeals
  Mr. Gwilym Jones
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will list the number of planning appeals that

  643
  were heard by his Department for each council in Wales for each year since 1979, giving the numbers of those that were upheld.

  Local Planning Authority

  1979

  1980

  1981

  1982

  1983

  1984

  1985

  1986

  1D

  2A

  D

  A

  D

  A

  D

  A

  D

  A

  D

  A

  D

  A

  D

  A

  Clwyd

  Alyn and Deeside

  8

  5

  10

  4

  11

  4

  11

  2

  5

  4

  9

  3

  14

  8

  12

  7

  Colwyn

  8

  3

  14

  2

  16

  9

  21

  8

  14

  8

  21

  15

  23

  14

  21

  8

  Delyn

  14

  3

  21

  4

  17

  3

  16

  2

  16

  4

  8

  5

  8

  3

  17

  2

  Glyndwr

  17

  5

  15

  2

  12

  3

  12

  2

  9

  4

  8

  5

  9

  7

  15

  5

  Rhuddlan

  11

  6

  10

  5

  14

  6

  15

  6

  15

  10

  25

  13

  18

  13

  16

  11

  Wrexham

  18

  7

  19

  6

  24

  7

  35

  9

  19

  8

  14

  8

  17

  11

  26

  9

  Dyfed

  Carmarthen

  11

  1

  26

  2

  18

  6

  9

  1

  18

  8

  8

  3

  6

  3

  18

  7

  Ceredigion

  21

  6

  36

  6

  27

  5

  25

  5

  15

  2

  16

  1

  26

  8

  29

  9

  Dinefwr

  8

  3

  9

  2

  11

  2

  13

  1

  4

  1

  9

  2

  9

  6

  13

  9

  Llanelli

  12

  —

  12

  1

  19

  9

  16

  2

  14

  5

  16

  4

  13

  7

  21

  7

  Preseli

  14

  3

  20

  2

  14

  1

  13

  —

  10

  3

  10

  3

  5

  4

  12

  —

  South Pembs

  16

  3

  19

  4

  29

  7

  15

  3

  23

  6

  13

  4

  13

  4

  22

  9

  Gwent

  Blaenau Gwent

  4

  1

  5

  2

  4

  3

  4

  1

  9

  1

  5

  2

  5

  4

  14

  5

  Islwyn

  3

  0

  11

  5

  12

  3

  9

  1

  4

  1

  9

  5

  12

  6

  16

  6

  Monmouth

  21

  6

  27

  9

  37

  16

  52

  17

  26

  10

  42

  9

  47

  14

  45

  18

  Newport

  15

  5

  19

  7

  11

  4

  22

  7

  18

  7

  24

  6

  23

  10

  33

  17

  Torfaen

  4

  3

  9

  5

  5

  4

  14

  4

  14

  3

  17

  7

  14

  10

  26

  9

  Gwynedd

  Aberconwy

  19

  5

  16

  1

  22

  4

  18

  6

  24

  10

  15

  5

  27

  14

  21

  13

  Arfon

  10

  4

  12

  4

  10

  5

  8

  4

  11

  2

  13

  4

  16

  9

  16

  7

  Dwyfor

  24

  12

  10

  4

  19

  6

  18

  6

  17

  5

  14

  5

  17

  6

  13

  3

  Meirionnydd

  23

  8

  23

  7

  13

  5

  12

  5

  12

  6

  12

  4

  8

  3

  16

  8

  Ynys Mon

  32

  9

  27

  10

  43

  15

  40

  17

  40

  12

  33

  10

  33

  11

  45

  17

  Mid Glamorgan

  Cynon Valley

  5

  0

  5

  4

  4

  1

  12

  5

  6

  1

  10

  4

  9

  2

  15

  4

  Merthyr Tydfil

  7

  2

  6

  2

  4

  1

  17

  7

  8

  2

  7

  2

  2

  1

  11

  4

  Ogwr

  26

  8

  36

  8

  47

  13

  31

  4

  28

  8

  31

  9

  20

  3

  27

  4

  Rhondda

  7

  3

  6

  3

  6

  4

  14

  5

  10

  4

  13

  1

  10

  3

  24

  10

  Rhymney Valley

  11

  3

  10

  3

  13

  4

  20

  5

  16

  4

  10

  5

  10

  3

  19

  5

  Taff Ely

  19

  11

  17

  8

  25

  9

  20

  6

  23

  7

  21

  7

  17

  8

  18

  9

  Powys

  Brecknock

  13

  0

  15

  3

  20

  1

  18

  1

  16

  7

  14

  6

  21

  6

  22

  9

  Montgomery

  10

  5

  12

  3

  14

  3

  11

  8

  13

  2

  11

  6

  7

  1

  3

  1

  Radnor

  2

  0

  5

  1

  12

  2

  9

  2

  3

  0

  3

  0

  6

  3

  8

  4

  South Glamorgan

  Cardiff

  49

  18

  39

  15

  48

  15

  33

  10

  53

  22

  45

  18

  55

  31

  38

  16

  Vale of Glamorgan

  55

  26

  57

  23

  62

  24

  61

  20

  50

  17

  43

  15

  42

  13

  48

  20

  West Glamorgan

  Port Talbot (formerly Afan)

  10

  6

  7

  1

  4

  2

  8

  4

  4

  2

  4

  0

  5

  1

  4

  1

  Lliw Valley

  15

  2

  28

  12

  25

  6

  22

  4

  28

  11

  23

  8

  17

  7

  13

  7

  Neath

  10

  5

  14

  9

  8

  2

  12

  4

  10

  4

  5

  2

  10

  2

  5

  2

  Swansea

  35

  17

  42

  11

  54

  22

  48

  14

  44

  23

  56

  19

  59

  23

  53

  20

  1 D = Determined.

  2 A = Allowed.

  Domestic Rates
  Mr. Nicholas Bennett
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the average domestic rate paid in each Welsh district in the current financial year; and what is the estimated community charge in each Welsh district (a) per person and (b) per property.

  Mr. Peter Walker
  Average domestic bills, calculated as the estimated contribution made by domestic ratepayers to authorities' rate fund expenditure in 1987–88 (after allowing for domestic rate relief) divided by the number
  644
  Mr. Grist
  The information is as follows:

  of hereditaments, are given in the following table. Estimated community charge figures for 1987–88 are also shown. These estimates are based on present expenditure patterns and aggregate levels of grant. They are given on two bases: first, community charges assuming the Government's proposals were implemented in full in 1987–88, with no safety net, are provided; secondly, charges after allowing for the safety nets envisaged in the Green Paper. The average community charge per property including safety net will, by definition, be the same as the average domestic rate bill per property.
  645

  Community charge with no "safety net"

  Rating authority

  Average domestic rate bill per property

  per adult

  Average per domestic property

  Community charge including "safety net" per adult

  £

  £

  £

  £

  Alyn and Deeside

  329

  132

  268

  163

  Colwyn

  336

  144

  258

  188

  Delyn

  327

  137

  273

  165

  Glyndwr

  263

  138

  258

  141

  Rhuddlan

  326

  134

  269

  163

  Wrexham Maelor

  292

  140

  274

  149

  Carmarthen

  220

  136

  270

  111

  Ceredigion

  232

  128

  243

  122

  Dinefwr

  197

  125

  243

  102

  Llanelli

  238

  150

  287

  124

  Preseli Pembrokeshire

  221

  127

  241

  117

  South Pembrokeshire

  255

  124

  232

  137

  Blaenau Gwent

  202

  146

  280

  106

  Islwyn

  222

  137

  271

  112

  Monmouth

  311

  131

  277

  147

  Newport

  316

  132

  252

  166

  Torfaen

  271

  142

  277

  139

  Aberconwy

  292

  127

  239

  155

  Arfon

  198

  124

  215

  114

  Dwyfor

  225

  128

  200

  145

  Meirionnydd

  218

  127

  198

  140

  Ynys Mon

  256

  123

  224

  141

  Cynon Valley

  174

  135

  252

  93

  Merthyr Tydfil

  206

  149

  284

  108

  Ogwr

  266

  142

  294

  129

  Rhondda

  144

  151

  283

  77

  Rhymney Valley

  235

  148

  294

  118

  Taff-Ely

  254

  147

  296

  126

  Brecknock

  229

  121

  239

  116

  Montgomeryshire

  213

  108

  201

  114

  Radnor

  212

  112

  200

  119

  Cardiff

  335

  103

  206

  168

  Vale of Glamorgan

  320

  117

  247

  152

  Port Talbot

  263

  181

  348

  137

  Lliw Valley

  237

  164

  321

  122

  Neath

  252

  148

  287

  130

  Swansea

  331

  172

  342

  166

  Wales average

  268

  136

  268

  136

  Mr. Nicholas Bennett
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will list, by Welsh district, (a) the district rate and (b) the percentage increase of this in each of the last 10 years.

  Total district rate and year on year change.

  1976–77 (p)

  1977–78 (p)

  Per cent. change

  1978–79 (p)

  Per cent. change

  1979–80

  Per cent. change

  1980–81 (p)

  Per cent. change

  Total district

  Alyn and Deeside

  18·57

  18·20

  -2·0

  21·10

  15·9

  17·40

  -17·5

  21·24

  22·1

  Colwyn

  22·68

  23·40

  3·2

  26·10

  11·5

  21·50

  -17·6

  25·04

  16·5

  Delyn

  24·97

  25·70

  2·9

  26·90

  4·7

  24·30

  -9·7

  28·07

  15·5

  Glyndwr

  21·81

  19·00

  -12·9

  21·70

  14·2

  21·00

  -3·2

  25·52

  21·5

  Rhuddlan

  26·75

  29·90

  11·8

  33·50

  12·0

  29·30

  -12·5

  32·40

  10·6

  Wrexham Maelor

  18·76

  20·40

  8·7

  25·00

  22·5

  23·80

  -4·8

  28·80

  21·0

  Carmarthen

  20·89

  17·80

  -14·8

  22·90

  28·7

  18·60

  -18·8

  20·42

  9·8

  Ceredigion

  19·55

  20·00

  2·3

  23·00

  15·0

  17·00

  -26·1

  17·94

  5·5

  Dinefwr

  15·00

  11·80

  -21·3

  18·50

  56·8

  19·00

  2·7

  19·06

  0·3

  Llanelli

  25·19

  24·40

  -3·1

  29·40

  20·5

  23·10

  -21·4

  29·30

  26·8

  Preseli

  17·48

  15·70

  -10·2

  17·90

  14·0

  14·10

  -21·2

  15·89

  12·7

  South Pembroke

  23·93

  22·30

  -6·8

  19·00

  -14·8

  12·20

  -35·8

  17·33

  42·0

  Blaenau Gwent

  29·48

  31·50

  6·9

  38·10

  21·0

  26·30

  -31·0

  30·97

  17·8

  Islwyn

  23·63

  25·40

  7·5

  27·00

  6·3

  21·50

  -20·4

  25·50

  18·6

  Monmouth

  15·43

  20·50

  32·9

  22·50

  9·8

  20·60

  -8·4

  24·11

  17·0

  Newport

  22·09

  24·30

  10·0

  25·60

  5·3

  19·40

  -24·2

  25·96

  33·8

  Torfaen

  21·90

  27·30

  24·7

  31·50

  15·4

  26·90

  -14·6

  33·78

  25·6

  646
  Mr. Peter Walker
  The information requested is given in the following tables:
  647

  1976–77 (p)

  1977–78 (p)

  Per cent, change

  1978–79 (p)

  Per cent. change

  1979–80 (p)

  Per cent, change

  1980–81 (p)

  Per cent. change

  Aberconwy

  24·23

  26·50

  9·4

  32·00

  20·8

  26·70

  -16·6

  29·41

  10·1

  Arfon

  20·88

  22·90

  9·7

  27·30

  19·2

  21·40

  -21·6

  24·30

  13·6

  Dwyfor

  22·00

  22·60

  2·7

  24·90

  10·2

  23·00

  -7·6

  26·33

  14·5

  Meirionnydd

  21·93

  22·70

  3·5

  24·30

  7·0

  21·10

  -13·2

  27·41

  29·9

  Ynys Mon

  22·19

  24·20

  9·1

  25·80

  6·6

  19·00

  -26·4

  21·57

  13·5

  Cynon Valley

  28·09

  30·80

  9·6

  31·20

  1·3

  23·80

  -23·7

  26·74

  12·4

  Merthyr Tydfil

  32·28

  33·80

  4·7

  37·20

  10·1

  35·50

  -4·6

  36·47

  2·7

  Ogwr

  18·67

  20·50

  9·8

  27·90

  36·1

  22·40

  -19·7

  27·85

  24·3

  Rhondda

  25·70

  27·50

  7·0

  31·00

  12·7

  30·50

  -1·6

  35·60

  16·7

  Rhymney Valley

  28·60

  28·80

  0·7

  32·40

  12·5

  25·90

  -20·1

  31·36

  21·1

  Taff Ely

  23·93

  26·00

  8·7

  33·40

  28·5

  24·80

  -25·7

  33·96

  36·9

  Brecknock

  17·66

  20·60

  16·6

  22·60

  9·7

  15·80

  -30·1

  13·95

  -11·7

  Montgomeryshire

  15·91

  15·30

  -3·8

  21·50

  40·5

  14·60

  -32·1

  14·43

  -1·2

  Radnor

  18·31

  19·20

  4·9

  21·70

  13·0

  13·50

  -37·8

  11·23

  -16·8

  Cardiff

  23·50

  22·50

  -4·3

  22·50

  00

  13·50

  -40·0

  19·95

  47·8

  Vale of Glamorgan

  22·43

  23·30

  3·9

  19·60

  -15·9

  11·80

  -39·8

  16·48

  39·7

  Port Talbot

  40·00

  37·90

  -5·3

  34·80

  -8·2

  30·50

  -12·4

  34·03

  11·6

  Lliw Valley

  21·44

  23·80

  11·0

  26·90

  13·0

  24·00

  -10·8

  24·85

  3·5

  Neath

  23·35

  21·10

  -9·6

  24·30

  15·2

  20·30

  -16·5

  23·69

  16·7

  Swansea

  26·95

  28·30

  5·0

  30·60

  8·1

  25·70

  -16·0

  29·51

  14·8

  Total district rate and year on year change—continued

  1981–82 (p)

  Percentage change

  1982–83 (p)

  Percentage change

  1983–84 (p)

  Percentage change

  1984–85 (p)

  Percentage change

  Total district

  Alyn and Deeside

  20·40

  -4·0

  17·40

  -14·7

  18·30

  5·2

  25·50

  39·3

  Colwyn

  35·00

  39·8

  33·10

  -5·4

  28·11

  -15·1

  32·10

  14·2

  Delyn

  28·60

  1·9

  34·60

  21·0

  31·96

  -7·6

  30·90

  -3·3

  Glyndwr

  26·80

  5·0

  26·00

  -3·0

  24·83

  -4·5

  26·20

  5·5

  Rhuddlan

  32·40

  0·0

  31·80

  -1·9

  31·64

  -0·5

  33·00

  4·3

  Wrexham Maelor

  30·00

  4·2

  28·50

  -5·0

  30·31

  6·4

  31·00

  2·3

  Carmarthen

  22·60

  10·7

  22·80

  0·9

  22·90

  0·4

  20·90

  -8·7

  Ceredigion

  17·50

  -2·5

  17·60

  0·6

  17·25

  -2·0

  18·70

  8·4

  Dinefwr

  18·60

  -2·4

  21·30

  14·5

  16·24

  -23·8

  16·90

  4·1

  Llanelli

  29·70

  1·4

  30·30

  2·0

  31·69

  4·6

  33·10

  4·4

  Preseli

  17·80

  12·0

  19·70

  10·7

  19·83

  0·7

  21·80

  9·9

  South Pembroke

  18·40

  6·2

  20·50

  11·4

  21·35

  4·1

  21·60

  1·2

  Blaenau Gwent

  38·40

  24·0

  36·50

  -4·9

  33·17

  -9·1

  32·60

  -1·7

  Islwyn

  28·00

  9·8

  29·00

  3·6

  24·00

  -17·2

  32·00

  33·3

  Monmouth

  24·00

  -0·5

  26·90

  12·1

  21·95

  -18·4

  27·80

  26·7

  Newport

  30·60

  17·9

  30·50

  -0·3

  31·00

  1·6

  34·30

  10·6

  Torfaen

  40·00

  18·4

  38·90

  -2·8

  39·16

  0·7

  46·20

  18·0

  Aberconwy

  30·40

  3·4

  29·30

  -3·6

  30·17

  3·0

  34·60

  14·7

  Arfon

  28·20

  16·0

  26·80

  -5·0

  26·59

  -0·8

  33·80

  27·1

  Dwfor

  29·30

  11·3

  29·80

  1·7

  33·22

  11·5

  36·00

  8·4

  Meirionnydd

  31·30

  14·2

  31·50

  0·6

  33·03

  4·9

  33·60

  1·7

  Ynys Mon

  28·70

  33·1

  27·30

  -4·9

  28·87

  5·8

  32·30

  11·9

  Cynon Valley

  27·70

  3·6

  27·80

  0·4

  28·15

  1·3

  29·50

  4·8

  Merthyr Tydfil

  44·80

  22·8

  38·50

  -14·1

  39·56

  2·8

  39·40

  -0·4

  Ogwr

  30·60

  9·9

  30·20

  -1·3

  28·38

  -6·0

  31·50

  11·0

  Rhondda

  33·30

  -6·5

  30·30

  -9·0

  28·00

  -7·6

  27·00

  -3·6

  Rhymney Valley

  31·40

  0·1

  37·30

  18·8

  38·79

  4·0

  37·40

  -3·6

  Taff Ely

  28·50

  -16·1

  28·60

  0·4

  24·93

  -12·8

  29·30

  17·5

  Brecknock

  13·30

  -4·7

  16·80

  26·3

  21·02

  25·1

  24·80

  18·0

  Montgomeryshire

  16·40

  13·7

  14·70

  -10·4

  14·90

  1·4

  16·50

  10·7

  Radnor

  10·40

  -7·4

  11·40

  9·6

  11·81

  3·6

  17·90

  51·6

  Cardiff

  24·00

  20·3

  26·30

  9·6

  18·99

  -27·8

  19·90

  4·8

  Vale of Glamorgan

  19·00

  15·3

  22·00

  15·8

  22·93

  4·2

  23·70

  3·4

  Port Talbot

  41·00

  20·5

  41·00

  0·0

  40·30

  -1·7

  42·20

  4·7

  Lliw Valley

  28·10

  13·1

  28·10

  0·0

  29·54

  5·1

  28·20

  -4·5

  Neath

  26·00

  9·8

  24·50

  -5·8

  22·20

  -9·4

  24·10

  8·6

  Swansea

  33·50

  13·5

  35·20

  5·1

  35·47

  0·8

  36·50

  2·9

  Total district rate and year on year change

  1985–86 (p)

  per cent, change

  1986–87 (p)

  per cent change

  1987–88 (p)

  per cent, change

  Total district

  Alyn and Deeside

  28·33

  11·1

  31·10

  9·8

  30·47

  -2·0

  Colwyn

  36·12

  12·5

  38·11

  5·5

  48·09

  26·2

  Delyn

  31·64

  2·4

  34·13

  7·9

  35·20

  3·1

  Glyndwr

  28·46

  8·6

  28·83

  1·3

  31·46

  9·1

  Rhuddlan

  35·05

  6·2

  35·14

  ·3

  35·68

  1·5

  Wrexham Maelor

  33·14

  6·9

  35·31

  6·5

  36·99

  4·8

  648 649

  1985–86 (p)

  per cent, change

  1986–87 (p)

  per cent, change

  1987–88 (p)

  per cent, change

  Carmarthen

  25·74

  23·2

  27·10

  5·3

  30·14

  11·2

  Ceredigion

  23·00

  23·0

  24·25

  5·4

  26·80

  10·5

  Dinefwr

  17·10

  1·2

  21·44

  25·4

  26·01

  21·3

  Llanelli

  39·83

  20·3

  43·86

  10·1

  47·13

  7·5

  Preseli

  23·99

  10·0

  24·43

  1·8

  25·80

  5·6

  South Pembroke

  25·50

  18·1

  27·55

  8·0

  29·32

  6·4

  Blaenau Gwent

  37·29

  14·4

  44·37

  19·0

  46·28

  4·3

  Islwyn

  36·00

  12·5

  37·00

  2·8

  38·50

  4·1

  Monmouth

  33·06

  18·9

  34·52

  4·4

  38·10

  10·4

  Newport

  38·54

  12·4

  38·60

  ·2

  38·54

  -·2

  Torfaen

  44·53

  -3·6

  44·86

  ·7

  45·28

  ·9

  Aberconwy

  36·98

  6·9

  40·17

  8·6

  45·66

  13·7

  Arfon

  35·75

  5·8

  38·59

  7·9

  40·80

  5·7

  Dwyfor

  39·09

  8·6

  42·22

  8·0

  45·31

  7·3

  Meirionnydd

  36·03

  7·2

  36·03

  ·0

  36·15

  ·3

  Ynys Mon

  35·77

  10·7

  37·87

  5·9

  40·02

  5·7

  Cynon Valley

  30·62

  3·8

  33·15

  8·3

  36·65

  10·6

  Merthyr Tydfil

  42·62

  8·2

  43·56

  2·2

  43·66

  ·2

  Ogwr

  34·95

  11·0

  41·35

  18·3

  43·64

  5·5

  Rhondda

  37·00

  37·0

  43·60

  17·8

  47·70

  9·4

  Rhymney Valley

  37·64

  ·6

  38·88

  3·3

  41·34

  6·3

  Taff Ely

  40·80

  39·2

  40·44

  -·9

  42·91

  6·1

  Brecknock

  27·46

  10·7

  32·02

  16·6

  37·51

  17·1

  Montgomeryshire

  15·93

  -3·5

  20·90

  31·2

  22·73

  8·8

  Radnor

  21·28

  18·9

  25·81

  21·3

  25·75

  -·2

  Cardiff

  20·72

  4·1

  20·69

  -·1

  19·95

  -3·6

  Vale of Glam

  26·38

  11·3

  26·83

  1·7

  27·22

  1·5

  Port Talbot

  40·00

  -5·2

  38·30

  -4·3

  39·34

  2·7

  Lliw Valley

  30·23

  7·2

  33·54

  10·9

  37·38

  11·4

  Neath

  24·16

  ·2

  25·20

  4·3

  28·9

  14·8

  Swansea

  38·35

  5·1

  40·38

  5·3

  44·54

  10·3

  Mr. Geraint Howells
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the total annual value of domestic rate relief accruing to registered charities in Wales.

  Mr. Peter Walker
  Registered charities are rated on a commercial basis and do not, therefore, qualify for domestic rate relief. However, they are eligible for 50 per cent. mandatory relief under Section 40(1) of the General Rate Act 1967, and for 1986–87 this amounted to £1·2 million.

  Hospital Waiting Lists
  Mr. Nicholas Bennett
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will list, by speciality, the number of people awaiting non-emergency operations and treatment in the Pembrokeshire health district together with average waiting time in each specialty; and how these figures compare with the average for (a) Wales and (b) England.

  Mr. Grist
  The number of persons waiting for in-patient or day-care admission to hospitals of the Pembrokeshire Health Authority at 31 March 1987 were as follows:

  In-Patients

  Day-Cases

  General Surgery

  1,534

  230

  Ear, Nose and Throat

  —

  48

  Traumatic and Orthopaedic Surgery

  789

  470

  Opthalmology

  —

  9

  Dental Surgery

  —

  99

  Orthodontics

  —

  48

  Gynaecology

  187

  94

  Developer

  Site

  Date of Decision

  Decision

  Dyfed

  NCB

  Garnant Farm, Amman Valley

  22 July 1986

  allowed

  I. N. Magnascan

  Honeyscroft Farm, Jeffreston

  22 December 1986

  dismissed

  650
  Information on median waiting times is derived only for a limited range of spcialties which have relatively large numbers of patients admitted to hospital from waiting lists. The latest available information, which is provisional for 1986, is as follows:

  Median waiting time (days) for in-patients and day-cases admitted from waiting lists during 1986

  Pembrokeshire

  Wales

  General Surgery (including Urology)

  61

  36

  Traumatic and Orthopaedic Surgery

  70

  66

  Gynaecology

  37

  38

  Information relating to waiting times in England is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Services.

  Coal Industry
  Mr. Win Griffiths
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will list by county for each year, since and including 1976, the opencast coalmining applications that have been considered by him on appeal, and the result of those appeals in each case.

  Mr. Grist
  No opencast coalmining planning applications have been considered on appeal by my right hon. Friend, from and including 1976, in respect of the counties of Clwyd, Gwynedd, Powys and South Glamorgan. Details of appeals for the other counties are given in the following table:
  651

  Developer

  Site

  Date of Decision

  Decision

  Gwent

  James and Emmanuel

  Cefn Crib, Hafodyrynys

  18 June 1980

  dismissed

  Blaendare Coal Co.

  Penyrheol Reservoir, Upper Race, Pontypool

  19 January 1983

  dismissed

  W. Roach

  Penyfan Ganol Farm, Manmoel

  31 March 1983

  dismissed

  W. Roach

  Penyfan Ganol Farm, Manmoel

  19 December 1985

  allowed

  Mid Glamorgan

  E. Thomas

  Pencoedcae Farm, Rhymney

  6 February 1980

  allowed

  Taylor Woodrow Construction

  Mountain Hare, Merthyr Tydfil

  14 July 19187

  allowed

  West Glamorgan

  W. Morgan

  Gelliwarog Farm, Pontardawe

  28 December 1979

  dismissed

  James and Emmanuel

  Llechart Fawr Farm, Pontardawe

  12 February 1980

  dismissed

  Delves Solid Fuels

  Gilfach-yr-Haidd and Gilfach Goch Farm, Ystabyfera

  20 May 1982

  allowed

  Delves Solid Fuels

  Gelliwarog Farm, Pontardawe

  17 February 1986

  allowed

  IMN, HEC, MRL, JVP

  Cwm Nant Lleiby Farm, Ynysmendwy

  18 February 1986

  allowed

  Nuclear Accident Response Unit
  Mr. Win Griffiths
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he was informed of the existence of a nuclear accident response unit at Saint Athan when it was established there.

  Mr. Grist
  It has been the practice of successive Governments not to discuss the roles of particular units which may be involved in a response to an accident involving defence nuclear material.

  Local Government Staff
  Mr. Nicholas Bennett
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will list by Welsh county and district authority

  Local authority employees (Full-time)

  March 1979

  Percentage change since 1978

  March 1980

  Percentage change since 1979

  March 1981

  Percentage change since 1980

  March 1982

  Percentage change since 1981

  March 1983

  Percentage change since 1982

  County councils

  Clwyd

  9,007

  n/a

  8,914

  -1·03

  8,724

  -2·13

  8,643

  -0·93

  8,748

  1·21

  Dyfed

  8,388

  n/a

  8,324

  -0·76

  8,091

  -2·80

  7,992

  -1·22

  7,984

  -0·10

  Gwent

  10,929

  n/a

  10,742

  -1·71

  10,516

  -2·10

  10,480

  -0·34

  10,392

  -0·84

  Gwynedd

  6,151

  n/a

  6,097

  -0·88

  6,120

  0·38

  6,048

  -1·18

  5,927

  -2·00

  Mid Glamorgan

  14,770

  n/a

  15,157

  2·62

  13,977

  -7·79

  13,076

  -6·45

  13,512

  3·33

  Powys

  3,285

  n/a

  3,228

  -1·74

  3,208

  -0·62

  3,133

  -2·34

  3,201

  2·17

  South Glamorgan

  8,670

  n/a

  8,713

  0·50

  8,661

  -0·60

  8,396

  -3·06

  8,432

  0·43

  West Glamorgan

  9,954

  n/a

  9,554

  -4·02

  9,228

  -3·41

  9,007

  -2·39

  9,056

  0·54

  District councils

  Aberconwy

  564

  n/a

  537

  -4·79

  504

  -6·15

  488

  -3·17

  487

  -0·20

  Alyn and Deeside

  499

  n/a

  490

  -1·80

  512

  4·49

  464

  -9·38

  453

  -2·37

  Arfon

  582

  n/a

  542

  -6·87

  555

  2·40

  551

  -0·72

  542

  -1·63

  Blaenau Gwent

  1,025

  n/a

  1,025

  0·00

  980

  -4·39

  976

  -0·41

  1,017

  4·20

  Brecknock

  239

  n/a

  225

  -5·86

  221

  -1·78

  220

  -0·45

  299

  35·91

  Cardiff

  3,770

  n/a

  3,665

  -2·79

  3,573

  -2·51

  3,576

  0·08

  3,625

  1·37

  Carmarthen

  411

  n/a

  416

  1·22

  393

  -5·53

  387

  -1·53

  402

  3·88

  Ceredigion

  453

  n/a

  443

  -2·21

  428

  -3·39

  426

  -0·47

  440

  3·29

  Colwyn

  460

  n/a

  464

  0·87

  453

  -2·37

  404

  -10·82

  395

  -2·23

  Cynon Valley

  830

  n/a

  822

  -0·96

  725

  -11·80

  731

  0·83

  736

  0·68

  Delyn

  494

  n/a

  513

  3·85

  489

  -4·68

  463

  -5·32

  455

  -1·73

  Dinefwr

  234

  n/a

  230

  -1·71

  233

  1·30

  235

  0·86

  230

  -2·13

  Dwyfor

  214

  n/a

  209

  -2·34

  206

  -1·44

  213

  3·40

  225

  5·63

  Glyndwr

  320

  n/a

  275

  -14·06

  266

  -3·27

  265

  -0·38

  269

  1·51

  Islwyn

  809

  n/a

  808

  -0·12

  784

  -2·97

  768

  -2·04

  749

  -2·47

  Llanelli

  797

  n/a

  844

  5·90

  776

  -8·06

  690

  -11·08

  655

  -5·07

  Lliw Valley

  500

  n/a

  493

  -1·40

  475

  -3·65

  448

  -5·68

  441

  -1·56

  652
  the number of full-time and full-time equivalent staff employed in each of the last 10 years, together with the percentage increase or decrease over the preceding year.

  Mr. Peter Walker
  The information held by the Department regarding full-time and part-time employees for each year is set out in the following tables. No information on employees by individual authorities is held by the Department prior to December 1978. Information on the number of full-time equivalent employees is not held by the Department and it is not possible to apply national factors to convert part-time employees to full-time equivalent terms.

  Figures for Police authorities, Probation and Aftercare committees and Magistrates Courts are separately identified in the tables and are excluded from the county council totals.
  653

  March 1979

  Percentage change since 1978

  March 1980

  Percentage change since 1979

  March 1981

  Percentage change since 1980

  March 1982

  Percentage change since 1981

  March 1983

  Percentage change since 1982

  Meirionnydd

  247

  n/a

  255

  3·24

  252

  -1·18

  258

  2·38

  259

  0·39

  Merthyr Tydfil

  1,071

  n/a

  1,079

  0·75

  1,048

  -2·87

  960

  -8·40

  932

  -2·92

  Monmouth

  540

  n/a

  561

  3·89

  562

  0·18

  555

  -1·25

  523

  -5·77

  Montgomeryshire

  298

  n/a

  281

  -5·70

  288

  2·49

  267

  -7·29

  263

  -1·50

  Neath

  566

  n/a

  552

  -2·47

  549

  -0·54

  540

  -1·64

  531

  -1·67

  Newport

  1,654

  n/a

  1,599

  -3·33

  1,584

  -0·94

  1,579

  -0·32

  1,602

  1·46

  Ogwr

  1,126

  n/a

  1,099

  -2·40

  1,100

  0·09

  1,098

  -0·18

  1,123

  2·28

  Port Talbot

  843

  n/a

  843

  0·00

  791

  -6·17

  720

  -8·98

  819

  13·75

  Preseli

  532

  n/a

  521

  -2·07

  500

  -4·03

  512

  2·40

  n/a

  n/a

  Radnor

  136

  n/a

  135

  -0·74

  136

  0·74

  138

  1·47

  133

  -3·62

  Rhondda

  1,041

  n/a

  1,073

  3·07

  853

  -20·50

  855

  0·23

  849

  -0·70

  Rhuddlan

  446

  n/a

  429

  -3·81

  454

  5·83

  422

  -7·05

  435

  3·08

  Rhymney Valley

  1,345

  n/a

  1,288

  -4·24

  n/a

  n/a

  1,298

  n/a

  1,270

  -2·16

  South Pembrokeshire

  354

  n/a

  336

  -5·08

  330

  -1·79

  306

  -7·27

  298

  -2·61

  Swansea

  2,413

  n/a

  2,304

  -4·52

  2,284

  -0·87

  2,330

  2·01

  2,270

  -2·58

  Taff-Ely

  969

  n/a

  949

  -2·06

  911

  -4·00

  875

  -3·95

  847

  -3·20

  Torfaen

  998

  n/a

  995

  -0·30

  977

  -1·81

  975

  -0·20

  963

  -1·23

  Vale of Glamorgan

  904

  n/a

  834

  -7·74

  835

  0·12

  833

  -0·24

  797

  -4·32

  Wrexham Maelor

  1,054

  n/a

  1,061

  -0·66

  1,061

  0·00

  1,004

  -5·37

  1,006

  0·20

  Ynys Mon

  602

  n/a

  632

  4·98

  649

  2·69

  626

  -3·54

  639

  2·08

  Local authority employees (full-time)—Continued

  March 1984

  Percentage change since 1983

  March 1985

  Percentage change since 1984

  March 1986

  Percentage change since 1985

  March 1987

  Percentage change since 1986

  County Councils

  Clwyd

  8,757

  0·10

  8,561

  -2·24

  8,460

  -1·18

  8,288

  -2·03

  Dyfed

  8,058

  0·93

  7,846

  -2·63

  7,693

  -1·95

  7,883

  2·47

  Gwent

  10,283

  -1·05

  10,035

  -2·41

  9,856

  -1·78

  9,652

  -2·07

  Gwynedd

  5,689

  -4·02

  5,689

  0·00

  5,613

  -1·34

  5,596

  -0·30

  Mid Glamorgan

  13,474

  -0·28

  13,166

  -2·29

  13·276

  0·84

  13,359

  0·63

  Powys

  3,245

  1·37

  3,172

  -2·25

  3,078

  -2·96

  3,025

  -1·72

  South Glamorgan

  8,539

  1·27

  8,384

  -1·82

  8,249

  -1·61

  8,290

  0·50

  West Glamorgan

  8,964

  -1·02

  8,740

  -2·50

  8,584

  —1·78

  8,428

  -1·82

  District Councils

  Aberconwy

  485

  -0·41

  469

  -3·30

  454

  -3·20

  436

  -3·96

  Alyn & Deeside

  443

  -2·21

  445

  0·45

  443

  -0·45

  443

  0·00

  Arfon

  524

  -3·32

  530

  1·15

  502

  -5·28

  489

  -2·59

  Blaenau Gwent

  955

  -6·10

  932

  -2·41

  924

  -0·86

  926

  0·22

  Brecknock

  225

  -24·75

  223

  -0·89

  228

  2·24

  228

  0·00

  Cardiff

  3,370

  -7·03

  3,177

  -5·73

  3,153

  -0·76

  2,427

  -23·03

  Carmarthen

  401

  -0·25

  398

  -0·75

  402

  1·01

  394

  -1·99

  Ceredigion

  438

  -0·45

  441

  0·68

  436

  -1·13

  438

  0·46

  Colwyn

  362

  -8·35

  362

  0·00

  347

  -4·14

  331

  -4·61

  Cynon Valley

  718

  -2·45

  731

  1·81

  731

  0·00

  653

  -10·67

  Delyn

  446

  -1·98

  447

  0·22

  448

  0·22

  469

  4·69

  Dinefwr

  244

  6·09

  235

  -3·69

  236

  0·43

  226

  -4·24

  Dwyfor

  219

  -2·67

  218

  -0·46

  219

  0·46

  223

  1·83

  Glyndwr

  268

  -0·37

  269

  0·37

  258

  -4·09

  260

  0·78

  Islwyn

  751

  0·27

  741

  -1·33

  746

  0·67

  683

  -8·45

  Llanelli

  670

  2·29

  675

  0·75

  619

  -8·30

  622

  0·48

  Lliw Valley

  444

  0·68

  463

  4·28

  451

  -2·59

  441

  -2·22

  Meirionnydd

  254

  -1·93

  245

  -3·54

  243

  -0·82

  248

  2·06

  Merthyr Tydfil

  917

  -1·61

  917

  0·00

  903

  -1·53

  745

  -17·50

  Monmouth

  519

  -0·76

  551

  6·17

  505

  -8·35

  495

  -1·98

  Montgomeryshire

  278

  5·70

  261

  -6·12

  259

  -0·77

  252

  -2·70

  Neath

  531

  0·00

  554

  4·33

  545

  -1·62

  526

  -3·49

  Newport

  1,535

  -4·18

  1,501

  -2·21

  1,457

  -2·93

  1,252

  -14·07

  Ogwr

  1,106

  -1·51

  1,048

  -5·24

  967

  -7·73

  956

  -1·14

  Port Talbot

  752

  -8·18

  640

  -14·89

  604

  -5·63

  620

  2·65

  Preseli

  504

  n/a

  507

  0·60

  503

  -0·79

  494

  -1·79

  Radnor

  137

  3·01

  135

  -1·46

  136

  0·74

  135

  -0·74

  Rhondda

  833

  -1·88

  818

  -1·80

  781

  -4·52

  795

  1·79

  Rhuddlan

  410

  -5·75

  406

  -0·98

  392

  -3·45

  405

  3·32

  Rhymney Valley

  1,195

  -5·91

  1,185

  -0·84

  1,185

  0·00

  1,004

  -15·27

  South Pembrokeshire

  287

  -3·69

  284

  -1·05

  282

  -0·70

  278

  -1·42

  Swansea

  2,192

  -3·44

  2,177

  -0·68

  2,199

  1·01

  2,209

  0·45

  Taff-Ely

  859

  1·42

  797

  -7·22

  792

  -0·63

  710

  -10·35

  Torfaen

  895

  -7·06

  796

  -11·06

  786

  1·26

  960

  22·14

  Vale of Glamorgan

  744

  -6·65

  693

  -6·85

  705

  1·73

  711

  0·85

  Wrexham Maelor

  98

  -0·80

  1,003

  0·50

  996

  -0·70

  1,003

  0·70

  Ynys Môn

  642

  0·47

  631

  -1·71

  626

  -0·79

  650

  3·83

  654 655

  Local Authority Employees (Full-Time)—continued

  March 1979

  Per cent, change since 1978

  March 1980

  Per cent, change since 1979

  March 1981

  Per cent, change since 1980

  March 1982

  Per cent, change since 1981

  March 1983

  Per cent, change since 1982

  Police Authorities

  Dyfed Powys

  1,136

  n/a

  1,156

  1·76

  1,159

  0·26

  1,146

  -1·12

  1,148

  0·17

  Gwent

  1,185

  n/a

  1,200

  1·27

  1,210

  0·83

  1,190

  -1·65

  1,199

  0·76

  North Wales

  1,651

  n/a

  1,636

  -0·91

  1,655

  1·16

  1,644

  -0·66

  1,664

  1·22

  South Wales

  3,922

  n/a

  4,080

  4·03

  4,069

  -0·27

  4,058

  -0·27

  4,080

  0·54

  Probation and after care committees

  Clwyd

  77

  n/a

  79

  2·60

  80

  1·27

  83

  3·75

  86

  3·61

  Dyfed

  37

  n/a

  36

  -2·72

  37

  2·78

  40

  8·11

  43

  7·50

  Gwent

  60

  n/a

  67

  11·67

  64

  -4·48

  66

  3·13

  69

  4·55

  Mid Glamorgan

  108

  n/a

  129

  19·44

  117

  -9·30

  116

  -0·85

  119

  2·59

  Powys

  8

  n/a

  9

  12·50

  9

  0·00

  13

  44·44

  15

  15·38

  South Glamorgan

  103

  n/a

  108

  4·85

  110

  1·85

  112

  1·82

  112

  0·00

  West Glamorgan

  66

  n/a

  65

  -1·52

  65

  0·00

  70

  7·69

  79

  12·86

  Magistrates courts committees

  Clwyd

  59

  n/a

  62

  5·08

  65

  4·84

  65

  0·00

  66

  1·54

  Dyfed

  48

  n/a

  53

  10·42

  55

  3·77

  54

  -1·82

  55

  1·85

  Gwent

  77

  n/a

  78

  1·30

  77

  -1·28

  80

  3·90

  84

  5·00

  Gwynedd

  32

  n/a

  33

  3·13

  35

  6·06

  33

  -5·71

  35

  6·06

  Mid Glamorgan

  97

  n/a

  102

  5·15

  100

  -1·96

  101

  1·00

  105

  3·96

  Powys

  13

  n/a

  13

  0·00

  13

  0·00

  12

  -7·69

  8

  -33·33

  South Glamorgan

  61

  n/a

  62

  1·64

  65

  4·84

  70

  7·69

  71

  1·43

  West Glamorgan

  63

  n/a

  70

  11·11

  78

  11·43

  73

  -6·41

  72

  -1·37

  Local authority employees (full-time)—continued

  March 1984

  Per cent, change since 1983

  March 1985

  Per cent, change since 1984

  March 1986

  Per cent, change since 1985

  March 1987

  Per cent, change since 1986

  Police authorities

  Dyfed Powys

  1,141

  -0·61

  1,144

  0·26

  1,148

  0·35

  1,142

  -0·52

  Gwent

  1,221

  1·83

  1,227

  0·49

  1,227

  0·00

  1,233

  0·49

  North Wales

  1,669

  0·30

  1,675

  0·36

  1,658

  -1·01

  1,679

  1·27

  South Wales

  4,082

  0·05

  4,091

  0·22

  4,039

  -1·27

  4,128

  2·20

  Probation and after care committees

  Clwyd

  90

  4·65

  96

  6·67

  96

  0·00

  97

  1·04

  Dyfed

  43

  0·00

  50

  16·28

  50

  0·00

  50

  0·00

  Gwent

  69

  0·00

  69

  0·00

  69

  0·00

  84

  21·74

  Mid Glamorgan

  124

  4·20

  122

  -1·61

  121

  -0·82

  123

  1·65

  Powys

  15

  0·00

  15

  0·00

  16

  6·67

  16

  0·00

  South Glamorgan

  114

  1·79

  118

  3·51

  115

  -2·54

  122

  6·09

  West Glamorgan

  80

  1·27

  80

  0·00

  85

  6·25

  89

  4·71

  Magistrates courts committees

  Clwyd

  68

  3·03

  70

  2·94

  73

  4·29

  70

  -4·11

  Dyfed

  56

  1·82

  57

  1·79

  54

  -5·26

  53

  -1·85

  Gwent

  82

  -2·38

  80

  -2·44

  79

  -1·25

  78

  -1·27

  Gwynedd

  36

  2·86

  38

  5·56

  38

  0·00

  38

  0·00

  Mid Glamorgan 105

  0·00

  112

  6·67

  110

  -1·79

  110

  0·00

  Powys

  10

  25·00

  12

  20·00

  10

  -16·67

  10

  0·00

  South Glamorgan

  75

  5·63

  72

  -4·00

  71

  -1·39

  71

  0·00

  West Glamorgan

  76

  5·56

  76

  0·00

  75

  -1·32

  76

  1·33

  Local authority employees (part-time)

  March 1979

  Per cent, change since 1978

  March 1980

  Per cent, change since 1979

  March 1981

  Per cent, change since 1980

  March 1982

  Per cent, change since 1981

  March 1983

  Per cent, change since 1982

  County councils

  Clwyd

  6,045

  n/a

  6,021

  -0·40

  5,959

  -1·03

  6,138

  3·00

  6,513

  6·11

  Dyfed

  5,296

  n/a

  5,374

  1·47

  4,996

  -7·03

  5,123

  2·54

  5,336

  4·16

  Gwent

  7,860

  n/a

  7,584

  -3·51

  7,839

  3·36

  7,531

  -3·93

  7,735

  2·71

  Gwynedd

  3,649

  n/a

  3,725

  2·08

  3,607

  -3·17

  3,361

  -6·82

  3,662

  8·96

  Mid Glamorgan

  8,689

  n/a

  9,146

  5·26

  9,411

  2·90

  9,212

  -2·11

  9,661

  4·87

  Powys

  1,804

  n/a

  1,793

  -0·61

  1,672

  -1·73

  1,771

  0·51

  2,065

  16·60

  656 657

  March 1979

  Per cent, change since 1978

  March 1980

  Per cent, change since 1979

  March 1981

  Per cent, change since 1980

  March 1982

  Per cent, change since 1981

  March 1983

  Per cent, change since 1982

  South Glamorgan

  6,038

  n/a

  5,970

  -1·13

  5,936

  -0·57

  5,865

  -1·20

  5,863

  -0·03

  West Glamorgan

  5,594

  n/a

  5,329

  -4·74

  5,349

  0·38

  5,590

  4·51

  5,756

  2·97

  District councils

  Aberconwy

  38

  n/a

  48

  26·32

  42

  -12·50

  39

  -7·14

  40

  2·56

  Alyn and Deeside

  153

  n/a

  144

  -5·88

  160

  11·11

  109

  -31·88

  96

  -11·93

  Arfon

  39

  n/a

  41

  5·13

  40

  -2·44

  56

  40·00

  51

  -8·93

  Blaenau Gwent

  107

  n/a

  100

  -6·54

  99

  -1·00

  93

  -6·06

  106

  13·98

  Brecknock

  32

  n/a

  29

  -9·38

  24

  -17·24

  28

  16·67

  23

  -17·86

  Cardiff

  230

  n/a

  200

  -13·04

  222

  11·00

  211

  -4·95

  305

  44·55

  Carmarthen

  55

  n/a

  54

  -1·82

  57

  5·56

  68

  19·30

  63

  -7·35

  Ceredigion

  28

  n/a

  33

  17·86

  28

  -15·15

  19

  -32·14

  24

  26·32

  Colwyn

  50

  n/a

  56

  12·00

  54

  -3·57

  52

  -3·70

  50

  -3·85

  Cynon Valley

  90

  n/a

  89

  -1·11

  86

  -3·37

  95

  10·47

  102

  7·37

  Delyn

  122

  n/a

  155

  27·05

  159

  2·58

  145

  -8·81

  171

  17·93

  Dinefwr

  39

  n/a

  27

  -30·77

  27

  0·00

  26

  -3·70

  22

  -15·38

  Dwyfor

  17

  n/a

  24

  41·18

  20

  -16·67

  19

  -5·00

  21

  10·53

  Glyndwr

  35

  n/a

  35

  0·00

  26

  -25·71

  28

  7·69

  32

  14·29

  Islwyn

  87

  n/a

  62

  -28·74

  50

  -19·35

  48

  -4·00

  51

  6·25

  Llanelli

  80

  n/a

  54

  -32·50

  63

  16·67

  53

  -15·87

  51

  -3·77

  Lliw Valley

  46

  n/a

  43

  -6·52

  38

  -11·63

  35

  -7·89

  28

  -20·00

  Meirionnydd

  54

  n/a

  47

  -12·96

  47

  0·00

  45

  -4·26

  45

  0·00

  Merthyr Tydfil

  80

  n/a

  85

  6·25

  84

  -1·18

  88

  4·76

  88

  0·00

  Monmouth

  79

  n/a

  82

  3·80

  91

  10·98

  85

  -6·59

  88

  3·53

  Montgomeryshire

  79

  n/a

  82

  3·80

  91

  10·98

  85

  -6·59

  88

  3·53

  Neath

  33

  n/a

  34

  3·03

  33

  -2·94

  33

  0·00

  34

  3·03

  Newport

  162

  n/a

  167

  3·09

  148

  -11·38

  154

  4·05

  166

  7·79

  Ogwr

  248

  n/a

  208

  -16·13

  174

  -16·35

  175

  0·57

  189

  8·00

  Port Talbot

  113

  n/a

  112

  -0·88

  99

  -11·61

  100

  1·01

  92

  -8·00

  Preseli

  39

  n/a

  42

  7·69

  41

  -2·38

  41

  0·00

  n/a

  n/a

  Radnor

  28

  n/a

  27

  -3·57

  30

  11·11

  30

  0·00

  31

  3·33

  Rhondda

  125

  n/a

  124

  -0·80

  142

  14·52

  167

  17·61

  169

  1·20

  Rhuddlan

  97

  n/a

  90

  -7·22

  104

  15·56

  112

  7·69

  85

  -24·11

  Rhymney Valley

  173

  n/a

  181

  4·62

  n/a

  n/a

  201

  n/a

  225

  11·94

  South Pembrokeshire

  21

  n/a

  18

  -14·29

  18

  0·00

  22

  22·22

  26

  18·18

  Swansea

  194

  n/a

  177

  -8·76

  212

  19·77

  133

  -37·26

  118

  -11·28

  Taff-Ely

  94

  n/a

  99

  5·32

  98

  -1·01

  102

  4·08

  105

  2·94

  Torfaen

  124

  n/a

  134

  8·06

  148

  10·45

  150

  1·35

  176

  17·33

  Vale of Glamorgan

  43

  n/a

  43

  0·00

  51

  18·60

  61

  19·61

  70

  14·75

  Wrexham Maelor

  160

  n/a

  160

  0·00

  169

  5·63

  164

  -2·96

  178

  8·54

  Ynys Mon

  63

  n/a

  62

  -1·59

  57

  -8·06

  68

  19·30

  65

  -4·41

  Local authority employees (part-time)—continued

  March 1984

  Per cent. Change since 1983

  March 1985

  Per cent. Change since 1984

  March 1986

  Per cent. Change since 1985

  March 1987

  Per cent. Change since 1986

  County councils

  Clwyd

  6,843

  5·07

  7,030

  2·73

  6,933

  -1·38

  7,022

  1·28

  Dyfed

  5,349

  0·24

  5,341

  -0·15

  5,538

  3·69

  6,166

  11·34

  Gwent

  7,810

  0·97

  8,063

  3·24

  8,286

  2·77

  8,674

  4·68

  Gwynedd

  3,717

  1·50

  3,848

  3·52

  3,925

  2·00

  4,071

  3·72

  Mid Glamorgan

  10,493

  8·61

  10,513

  0·19

  10,704

  1·82

  10,793

  0·83

  Powys

  2,072

  0·34

  2,050

  -1·06

  2,024

  -1·27

  2,181

  7·76

  South Glamorgan

  6,009

  2·49

  6,257

  4·13

  6,361

  1·66

  6,921

  8·80

  West Glamorgan

  5,726

  -0·52

  5,751

  0·44

  5,785

  0·59

  6,044

  4·48

  District councils

  Aberconwy

  44

  10·00

  41

  -6·82

  44

  7·32

  47

  6·82

  Alyn and Deeside

  95

  -1·04

  88

  -7·37

  96

  9·09

  101

  5·21

  Arfon

  57

  11·76

  59

  3·51

  64

  8·47

  66

  3·13

  Blaenau Gwent

  129

  21·70

  113

  -12·40

  120

  6·19

  120

  0·00

  Brecknock

  24

  4·35

  20

  -16·67

  21

  5·00

  22

  4·76

  Cardiff

  308

  0·98

  335

  8·77

  366

  9·25

  406

  10·93

  Carmarthen

  59

  -6·35

  59

  0·00

  59

  0·00

  68

  15·25

  Ceredigion

  24

  0·00

  26

  8·33

  30

  15·38

  28

  -6·67

  Colwyn

  47

  -6·00

  51

  8·51

  45

  -11·76

  53

  17·78

  Cynon Valley

  95

  -6·86

  95

  0·00

  95

  0·00

  95

  0·00

  Delyn

  147

  -14·04

  153

  4·08

  138

  -9·80

  159

  15·22

  Dinefwr

  21

  -4·55

  22

  4·76

  21

  -4·55

  19

  -9·52

  Dwyfor

  20

  -4·76

  18

  -10·00

  26

  44·44

  17

  -34·62

  Glyndwr

  28

  -12·50

  28

  0·00

  30

  7·14

  29

  -3·33

  Islwyn

  54

  5·88

  52

  -3·70

  50

  -3·85

  49

  -2·00

  658 659

  March 1984

  Per cent. Change since 1983

  March 1985

  Per cent. Change since 1984

  March 1986

  Per cent. Change since 1985

  March 1987

  Per cent. Change since 1986

  Llanelli

  71

  39·22

  64

  -9·86

  78

  21·88

  64

  -17·95

  Lliw Valley

  32

  14·29

  37

  15·63

  51

  37·84

  70

  37·25

  Meirionnydd

  48

  6·67

  56

  16·67

  52

  -7·14

  51

  -1·92

  Merthyr Tydfil

  87

  -1·14

  89

  2·30

  98

  10·11

  87

  -11·22

  Monmouth

  68

  -22·73

  63

  -7·35

  64

  1·59

  63

  -1·56

  Montgomeryshire

  68

  -22·73

  83

  22·06

  79

  -4·82

  84

  6·33

  Neath

  35

  2·94

  41

  17·14

  42

  2·44

  49

  16·67

  Newport

  162

  -2·41

  158

  -2·47

  196

  24·05

  242

  23·47

  Ogwr

  175

  -7·41

  170

  -2·86

  176

  3·53

  176

  0·00

  Port Talbot

  94

  2·17

  90

  -4·26

  87

  -3·33

  67

  -22·99

  Preseli

  38

  N/A

  42

  10·53

  46

  9·52

  53

  15·22

  Radnor

  31

  0·00

  27

  -12·90

  26

  -3·70

  28

  7·69

  Rhondda

  168

  -0·59

  182

  8·33

  189

  3·85

  189

  0·00

  Rhuddlan

  49

  -42·35

  65

  32·65

  54

  -16·92

  47

  -12·96

  Rhymney Valley

  186

  -17·33

  213

  14·52

  214

  0·47

  216

  0·93

  South Pembrokeshire

  24

  -7·69

  24

  0·00

  26

  8·33

  25

  -3·85

  Swansea

  145

  22·88

  143

  -1·38

  144

  0·70

  161

  11·81

  Taff-Ely

  111

  5·71

  120

  8·11

  146

  21·67

  149

  2·05

  Torfaen

  150

  -14·77

  159

  6·00

  173

  8·81

  175

  1·16

  Vale of Glamorgan

  78

  11·43

  114

  46·15

  121

  6·14

  137

  13·22

  Wrexham Maelor

  168

  -5·62

  173

  2·98

  179

  3·47

  187

  4·47

  Ynys Mon

  70

  7·69

  71

  1·43

  72

  1·41

  70

  -2·78

  Local authority employees (part-time)—continued

  March 1979

  Percentage change since 1978

  March 1980

  Percentage change since 1979

  March 1981

  Percentage change since 1980

  March 1982

  Percentage change since 1981

  March 1983

  Percentage change since 1982

  Police authorities

  Dyfed Powys

  45

  n/a

  45

  0·00

  45

  0·00

  45

  0·00

  52

  15·56

  Gwent

  57

  n/a

  55

  -3·51

  57

  3·64

  58

  1·75

  58

  0·00

  North Wales

  77

  n/a

  77

  0·00

  78

  1·30

  78

  0·00

  79

  1·28

  South Wales

  159

  n/a

  153

  -3·77

  154

  0·65

  154

  0·00

  153

  -0·65

  Probation and after care committees

  Clwyd

  9

  n/a

  9

  0·00

  10

  11·11

  12

  20·00

  16

  33·33

  Dyfed

  7

  n/a

  21

  200·00

  24

  14·29

  30

  25·00

  29

  -3·33

  Gwent

  12

  n/a

  13

  8·33

  14

  7·69

  17

  21·43

  13

  -23·53

  Mid Glamorgan

  20

  n/a

  11

  -45·00

  23

  109·09

  23

  0·00

  19

  -17·39

  Powys

  3

  n/a

  3

  0·00

  3

  0·00

  2

  -33·33

  8

  300·00

  South Glamorgan

  13

  n/a

  14

  7·69

  15

  7·14

  15

  0·00

  14

  -6·67

  West Glamorgan

  13

  n/a

  15

  15·38

  13

  -13·33

  14

  7·69

  11

  -21·43

  Magistrates courts committees

  Clwyd

  4

  n/a

  5

  25·00

  3

  -40·00

  4

  33·33

  11

  175·00

  Dyfed

  13

  n/a

  13

  0·00

  10

  -23·08

  11

  10·00

  11

  0·00

  Gwent

  16

  n/a

  16

  0·00

  18

  12·50

  13

  -27·78

  11

  -15·38

  Gwynedd

  10

  n/a

  9

  -10·00

  9

  0·00

  13

  44·44

  12

  -7·69

  Mid Glamorgan

  28

  n/a

  30

  7·14

  30

  0·00

  31

  3·33

  32

  3·23

  Powys

  2

  n/a

  2

  0·00

  2

  0·00

  2

  0·00

  10

  400·00

  South Glamorgan

  15

  n/a

  16

  6·67

  14

  -12·50

  14

  0·00

  14

  0·00

  West Glamorgan

  18

  n/a

  22

  22·22

  17

  -22·73

  21

  23·53

  23

  9·52

  Local authority employees (part-time)—continued

  March 1984

  Per cent, change since 1983

  March 1985

  Per cent, change since 1984

  March 1986

  Per cent, change since 1985

  March 1987

  Per cent, change since 1986

  Police authorities

  Dyfed Powys

  55

  5·77

  52

  -5·45

  57

  9·62

  54

  -5·26

  Gwent

  57

  -1·72

  58

  1·75

  57

  -1·72

  62

  8·77

  North Wales

  79

  0·00

  86

  8·86

  99

  15·12

  101

  2·02

  South Wales

  149

  -2·61

  149

  0·00

  166

  11·41

  161

  -3·01

  Probation and after care committees

  Clwyd

  20

  25·00

  23

  15·00

  25

  8·70

  26

  4·00

  Dyfed

  26

  -10·34

  23

  -11·54

  25

  8·70

  21

  -16·00

  Gwent

  15

  15·38

  15

  0·00

  22

  46·67

  9

  -59·09

  Mid Glamorgan

  21

  10·53

  25

  19·05

  22

  -12·00

  24

  9·09

  Powys

  11

  37·50

  12

  9·09

  12

  0·00

  13

  8·33

  South Glamorgan

  19

  35·71

  22

  15·79

  32

  45·45

  32

  0·00

  660 661

  March 1984

  Per cent, change since 1983

  March 1985

  Per cent, change since 1984

  March 1986

  Per cent, change since 1985

  March 1987

  Per cent, change since 1986

  West Glamorgan

  13

  18·18

  18

  38·46

  19

  5·56

  18

  -5·26

  Magistrates courts committees

  Clwyd

  11

  0·00

  10

  -9·09

  10

  0·00

  18

  80·00

  Dyfed

  11

  0·00

  10

  -9·09

  10

  0·00

  10

  0·00

  Gwent

  13

  18·18

  14

  7·69

  14

  0·00

  14

  0·00

  Gwynedd

  9

  -25·00

  10

  11·11

  11

  10·00

  8

  -27·27

  Mid Glamorgan

  32

  0·00

  32

  0·00

  30

  -6·25

  39

  30·00

  Powys

  12

  20·00

  7

  -41·67

  11

  57·14

  12

  9·09

  South Glamorgan

  15

  7·14

  21

  40·00

  20

  -4·76

  23

  15·00

  West Glamorgan

  22

  -4·35

  21

  -4·55

  21

  0·00

  20

  -4·76

  Rating Reforms
  Mr. Geraint Howells
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales what estimate he has made of the likely cost of introducing the community charge in Wales, during the transition period, including the recruitment of staff, the installation of computer systems, extra furniture and fittings and the initial canvass.

  Mr. Peter Walker
  No estimate has been made but an assessment of costs will be considered in due course in discussion with the Welsh Consultative Council on Local Government Finance.

  1987–88 Community Charge Figures (£)

  —with safety net—assuming full payment by:—

  —without safety net—assuming full payment by:—

  Rating authority

  95 per cent, of those eligible

  90 per cent, of those eligible

  85 per cent, of those eligible

  81 per cent, of those eligible

  95 per cent, of those eligbible

  90 per cent, of those eligible

  85 per cent, of those eligible

  81 per cent, of those eligible

  Alyn and Deeside

  171

  181

  191

  201

  139

  147

  156

  163

  Colwyn

  198

  209

  221

  232

  152

  160

  169

  178

  Delyn

  173

  183

  194

  203

  145

  153

  162

  170

  Glyndwr

  148

  156

  166

  174

  145

  153

  162

  170

  Ruddlan

  172

  181

  192

  201

  141

  149

  158

  166

  Wrexham Maelor

  156

  165

  175

  183

  147

  155

  164

  172

  Carmarthen

  117

  123

  130

  137

  143

  151

  160

  168

  Ceredigion

  129

  136

  144

  151

  135

  142

  151

  158

  Dinefwr

  107

  113

  120

  125

  132

  139

  147

  154

  Llanelli

  131

  138

  146

  154

  157

  166

  176

  185

  Preseli Pembrokeshire

  123

  130

  137

  144

  133

  141

  149

  156

  South Pembrokeshire

  144

  152

  161

  169

  131

  138

  146

  153

  Blaenau Gwent

  111

  117

  124

  130

  154

  162

  172

  181

  Islwyn

  118

  125

  132

  139

  144

  152

  161

  169

  Monmouth

  155

  164

  173

  182

  138

  146

  155

  162

  Newport

  174

  184

  195

  205

  139

  147

  156

  163

  Torfaen

  146

  154

  163

  171

  150

  158

  167

  175

  Aberconwy

  163

  172

  182

  191

  133

  141

  149

  156

  Arfon

  120

  127

  134

  141

  130

  138

  146

  153

  Dwyfor

  152

  161

  170

  179

  135

  143

  151

  159

  Meirionnydd

  147

  155

  164

  172

  133

  141

  149

  157

  Ynys Mon

  148

  156

  165

  174

  129

  137

  145

  152

  Cynon Valley

  98

  104

  110

  115

  142

  150

  159

  167

  Merthyr Tydfil

  113

  120

  127

  133

  157

  165

  175

  184

  Ogwr

  136

  143

  152

  159

  150

  158

  167

  176

  Rhondda

  81

  85

  90

  95

  159

  168

  178

  187

  Rhymney Valley

  125

  132

  139

  146

  156

  165

  174

  183

  Taff-Ely

  133

  140

  148

  155

  155

  164

  173

  182

  Brecknock

  122

  129

  137

  144

  128

  135

  143

  150

  Montgomeryshire

  120

  127

  134

  141

  113

  120

  127

  133

  Radnor

  126

  133

  141

  147

  118

  125

  132

  139

  Cardiff

  177

  186

  197

  207

  109

  115

  122

  128

  Vale of Glamorgan

  160

  169

  179

  187

  123

  130

  138

  145

  Port Talbot

  144

  152

  161

  169

  190

  201

  213

  223

  Lliw Valley

  128

  135

  143

  150

  173

  183

  193

  203

  Neath

  137

  145

  153

  161

  156

  165

  175

  183

  Swansea

  175

  185

  195

  205

  181

  191

  202

  212

  Wales average

  143

  151

  160

  168

  143

  151

  160

  168

  662
  Mr. Geraint Howells
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales what would be the total community charge for 1987–88 payable per resident in all boroughs and districts in Wales, assuming the full replacement of domestic rates by community charge, the implementation of the proposals in "Paying for Local Government" and the full payment of community charge by (a) 95 per cent., (b) 90 per cent., (c) 85 per cent. and (d) 81 per cent. of those eligible, both with and without the safety net.

  Mr. Peter Walker
  Estimates are given in the following table:

  Hospitality
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales how much has been spent on official hospitality by his Department in each of the last two financial years.

  Mr. Peter Walker
  The following amounts were spent on official hospitality:

  £

  1985–86

  35,466·63

  1986–87

  29,930·00

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the estimated expenditure of his Department in the current year on management and computer consultancy.

  Mr. Peter Walker
  £100,000.

  Conservative Party Organisation (Press Release)
  Mr. Alan Williams
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales why he authorised the use of an official departmental press release to announce the appointment of an hon. Member to advise him on matters relating to Conservative party organisation in Wales.

  Mr. Peter Walker
  I authorised the issue on 16 July of an official Departmental press release to announce the appointment of my hon. Friend the Member for Hereford (Mr. Shepherd) as my parliamentary private secretary. I also took the opportunity to announce that other Welsh Members had been asked by me to specialise in a number of issues affecting Wales. I thought it right to explain that my hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr. Raffan) was not included in these tasks because he had taken on duties of a party political nature—none of the details of which were given in the press notice. It would perhaps have been better for the reference to my hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr. Raffan) to have been mentioned in a separate press release issued by myself. I have therefore arranged to reimburse the Department for the cost of the Release.

  National Museum of Wales
  Mr. Faulds
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales what instructions have been given by his Department to the National Museum of Wales about the circumstances in which permission should be sought from his Department to raise funds voted for museum purposes.

  Mr. Wyn Roberts
  [pursuant to his reply, 10 July 1987, c. 291–2]: The terms on which the grant in aid voted for the National Museum of Wales may be drawn down are contained in the museum's financial memorandum, a copy of which is available in the Library. Changes made subsequent to the issue of the present financial memorandum will be incorporated in a revised version which is now in preparation.

  Environmentally Sensitive Areas
  Mr. Ron Davies
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales in respect of land within environmentally sensitive areas, how many farmers have applied to enter into management agreements in each of these areas and what is the total area
  664
  of land involved; and how many agreements have so far been concluded with farmers in each of these areas, and what is the total area of land involved.

  Mr. Peter Walker
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: There have been 150 applicants to enter management agreements in the Cambrian mountains ESA. Until the applications are finalised the area of land involved cannot be assessed. Five agreements have so far been concluded involving 817 hectares.

  Mr. Ron Davies
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will give the extent in hectares of the Cambrian mountains environmentally sensitive area, the total area of agricultural land within the environmentally sensitive area, and an estimate of the number of farmers eligible to enter into management agreements in that area.

  Mr. Peter Walker
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: The Cambrian mountains ESA covers 72,800 hectares of which 53,900 hectares is agricultural land excluding woodland. About 400 farmers are likely to be eligible for management agreements.

  Forestry
  Mr. Ron Davies
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales what was the total area of land which was referred to the Welsh Office Agriculture Department by the Forestry Commission under the forestry grant consultation procedures for each of the years ended 31 March 1986 and 31 March 1987; and if he will list in the Official Report in respect of each of the area offices of his Department the area of land which it advised was (a) acceptable to award forestry grant and (b) inappropriate to afforest on agricultural grounds.

  Mr. Peter Walker
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: The information is as follows:

  1985–86

  Area acceptable

  Area inappropriate for forestry

  (hectares)

  (hectares)

  Divisional Office

  Caernarfon (Gwynedd)

  68

  —

  Cardiff (Glamorgans and Gwent)

  102

  —

  Carmarthen (Dyfed)

  201

  —

  Llandrindod Wells (Powys)

  837

  —

  Ruthin (Clwyd)

  —

  —

  Total

  1,208

  —

  1986–87

  Caernarfon

  783

  —

  Cardiff

  2

  —

  Carmarthen

  369

  —

  Llandrindod Wells

  601

  —

  Ruthin

  442

  145

  Total

  2,197

  145

  Planning Appeals
  Mr. Wigley
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales if, pursuant to his answer to the hon. Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy (Mr. Thomas) on 17 July, he will list those planning permissions granted for residential housing developments on appeal in each year since 1979.
  665
  Mr. Grist
  [pursuant to my reply, 23 July 1987]: A list of those planning permissions granted for residential housing developments, on appeal, in each year since 1979 has been placed in the Library of the House.

  Education Costs
  Mr. Clay
  asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will publish a table showing the amount spent by local authorities on (a) school transport and (b) school meals in the latest year for which figures are available; and what are the comparable figures for each year since 1978–79 in cash terms using 1986–87 prices and using an index of 100 for 1978–79.

  Mr. Wyn Roberts
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: The information requested is as follows:

  1. School transport (gross expenditure).

  Year

  £000 cash

  £000 1986–87 prices

  Index 1978–79 = 100

  1978–79

  12,679

  24,652

  100

  1979–80

  15,274

  25,412

  103

  1980–81

  18,315

  25,689

  104

  1981–82

  19,556

  25,977

  101

  1982–83

  20,831

  24,806

  101

  1983–84

  22,630

  25,798

  105

  1984–85

  22,784

  24,906

  101

  1985–86

  22,510

  23,187

  94

  2. School meals and milk (gross expenditure).

  Year

  £000 cash

  £000 1986–87 prices

  Index 1978–79 = 100

  1978–79

  36,981

  71,901

  100

  1979–80

  39,416

  65,744

  91

  1980–81

  39,067

  54,795

  76

  1981–82

  40,003

  51,092

  71

  1982–83

  43,327

  51,596

  72

  1983–84

  45,121

  51,438

  72

  1984–85

  46,086

  50,378

  70

  1985–86

  44,249

  45,580

  63

EMPLOYMENT

  Job Training Scheme
  Mr. Rees
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment for how many people on the job training scheme placements have been found with employers.

  Mr. Cope
  I regret that this information is not yet available.

  Mr. Corbett
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment whether he will require Manpower Services Commission to monitor, record and publish by area the number of disabled people who (a) apply for and (b) secure a place on the job training scheme.

  Mr. Cope
  I have no plans for an increase in the information about participation by disabled people in the job training scheme, which is described in my reply of 13 July 1987, at column 348, to the right hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, South (Mr. Ashley), but I will be keeping this matter under review. Applications for a place on the scheme come from a number of different sources including restart interviews, jobcentres and self referral and collecting information about their characteristics would involve disproportionate cost.
  666
  Mr. David Nicholson
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment whether statistical information, including lists of all practical work experience provided with trainees allocated to them, will be made available to area manpower board representatives of trade unions which have indicated their hostility to the job training scheme; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Cope
  Statistical information about the operation of the new job training scheme is presented to the Manpower Services Commission's area manpower boards each month. At its meeting on 23 July the commission agreed that it should change this procedure so far as the provision of lists of practical experience placements is concerned.

  Mr. David Nicholson
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what information he has as to occasions when Open Tech unit staff have withdrawn their support for the job training scheme as a result of instructions from local education authorities opposed to job training scheme; what action he has taken or proposes to take in those circumstances; and whether he will make a statement.

  Mr. Cope
  There have been no occasions when staff of the Manpower Services Commission's open learning branch (formerly the open tech unit) have taken any action involving withdrawal of support for the job training scheme. My hon. Friend may be referring to the now independent organisations established under the open tech programme (which was completed on 31 March 1987). MSC initiated these organisations by contracting with LEAs, among other bodies. Under these contracts, which are now at an end, LEA staff sold and supported open learning materials under the title open tech delivery project. I would deplore directions issued by LEAs about withdrawing support from the scheme.

  Community Programme Wage Levels
  Mrs. Fyfe
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will undertake a review of the community programme wage levels.

  Mr. Lee
  We keep under review the maximum level of wages which can be reimbursed under the community programme and make changes when this would improve the cost-effective use of taxpayers' money. There are no plans at present to increase the maximum level of wages for participants.

  Rehabilitation Centres
  Mr. Hannam
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what percentage of clients who attend employment rehabilitation centres between November 1986 and 31 March 1987 were able-bodied.

  Mr. Lee
  Figures for this precise period are not available. However, for the period 1 October 1986 to 31 March 1987 the percentage of able-bodied people attending employment rehabilitation centres was 7·6 per cent.

  Manpower Services Commission
  Mr. Hannam
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will consider increasing the representation of the voluntary organisations on the Manpower Services Commission following the decision by the Government to reduce trade union representation.

  Mr. Fowler
  I have no plans to reduce trade union representation on the Manpower Services Commission, but I will consider my hon. Friend's suggestions.

  Benfleet Water Tower, Essex (Installations)
  Sir Bernard Braine
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment when the assessment by the Health and Safety Executive as to field strengths of the 600mm microwave dishes and sundry antennae installed at Benfleet water tower, Essex, and their possible effect on public health was completed; what were the findings; and why these have not yet been made public.

  Mr. Cope
  The assessment by the Health and Safety Executive has not yet been completed.

  Radio Frequency and Microwave Radiation
  Sir Bernard Braine
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what action has been taken or is now proposed regarding the recommendation of the National Radiological Protection Board that standards of permissible exposure of humans to radio frequency and microwave radiation should be revised; and whether he will make a statement.

  Mr. Cope
  The National Radiological Protection Board is re-examining the proposals contained in its consultative document on possible standards of protection in this field. It expects to report further on this topic in due course, taking account of the comments made on the consultative document and recent consultation with the Medical Research Council on the biological effects of radio frequency and microwave radiation.

  CIMAH Small Inventory Top Tier Sites
  Mr. Bill Michie
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what is the Health and Safety Executive's estimate for the number of CIMAH small inventory top tier sites; and for how many CIMAH small inventory top tier sites the plans required by CIMAH regulation 11 are prepared or in preparation.

  Mr. Cope
  At 31 March 1987, the Health and Safety Executive was aware of 66 premises which appeared to meet the criteria laid down for small inventory top tier sites. To date, the HSE has confirmed that 29 sites attract regulations 7 to 12 of the Control of Industrial Major Accident Hazard Regulations 1984. Of these, 12 have off-site plans completed or in preparation. Inspectors are continuing to check sites for potential risks.

  Labour Statistics
  Mr. Nicholas Bennett
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will list the percentage unemployment in each parliamentary constituency at 11 June.

  Mr. Lee
  My Department calculates unemployment rates for self-contained labour market areas only; the smallest such areas are travel-to-work areas.
  668
  Sir Barney Hayhoe
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what change has taken place since August 1985 in the unemployment figures for the Brentford and Isleworth constituency; and when was the last time that the figures were at the present level.

  Mr. Lee
  The following information is in the Library. On 8 August 1985, the number of unemployed claimants in the Brentford and Isleworth constituency was 4,349. On 11 June 1987, the number was 3,524, which was the lowest total since unemployment figures for parliamentary constituencies were introduced in June 1983. The comparison is affected by minor changes in the coverage of the data.

  Mr. Battle
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment how many people in Leeds, West have been employed in (a) service industries and (b) manufacturing industries for each of the last four years.

  Mr. Lee
  The latest available estimates for the Leeds, West constituency, from the census of employment, indicate that at September 1984 there were 13,300 employees in employment in service industries and 7,900 in manufacturing industries. An industry breakdown for parliamentary constituencies from the previous 1981 census of employment was not produced.

  Mr. Battle
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what is the total number of job vacancies in Leeds, West for the latest date available.

  Mr. Lee
  The following information is in the library. Vacancy statistics are not available by parliamentary constituency as such. However, the Leeds, West constituency corresponds to most of the Bramley jobcentre area and part of the Leeds jobcentre area, and at these jobcentres there were 213 and 1,710 unfilled vacancies, respectively, on 6 June 1987. Vacancies at jobcentres do not represent the total number of vacancies in the economy. Estimates suggest that nationally about a third of all vacancies are notified to jobcentres, but equivalent local estimates are not available.

  Mr. Austin Mitchell
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what is his estimate of the numbers of persons employed by (a) banks, (b) building societies, (c) estate agents and (d) lawyers; and if he has comparable information on the Federal Republic of West Germany.

  Mr. Lee
  The Department's employment statistics are classified according to the 1980 standard industrial classification, which does not separately identify building societies. The latest available estimates of the numbers of employees in employment in banking and bill-discounting and house and estate agents are for March 1987. Quarterly estimates of employees in employment in legal services are not made; the latest available is from the September 1984 census of employment.

  The available information for Great Britain is as follows.

  Employees in Employment: Great Britain

  Numbers

  AH 81401 Banking and bill-discounting

  2407,000

  AH 83401 House and estate agents

  2102,000

  AH 83501 Legal services

  3141,000

  669
  1 Activity Heading of the 1980 Standard Industrial Classification.

  2 March 1987.

  3 September 1984.

  The latest readily available figures for the Federal Republic of Germany are less detailed and show that in 1984 1,593,000 employees (7 per cent. of all employees) in the Federal Republic worked in banking and finance, business services and renting. Banking and finance accounted for 37 per cent. of this total.

  Accident Statistics
  Mr. Barry Field
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what are the statistics for accidents among local government employees over the last five years; and what information he has on rates of accidents in comparable activities in the private sector.

  Mr. Cope
  The table gives the available information.

  Reported Occupational Injuries to Employees in Local Government Service, Great Britain1

  1981

  1982

  1983

  1984

  1985

  Fatal injuries

  14

  13

  11

  10

  8

  Major injuries

  1,006

  852

  987

  876

  867

  Over 3-day accidents

  41,848

  40,278

  ¨

  ¨

  ¨

  1 As defined in the Notification of Accidents and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1980 and reported to relevant enforcing authorities.

  ¨ not available, because the industrial injury benefit scheme, which was the source of this information, effectively ceased in April 1983.

  The category of employees in local government service is as defined in MLH 906 of the 1968 standard industrial classification. Information for comparable activities within the private sector could only be obtained at disproportionate cost.

  Data collected under the new reporting regulations, which came into force in April 1986 are not yet available.

  AIDS
  Mr. Alton
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what plans he has to provide protection for AIDS carriers against unfair dismissal by employers; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Nicholls
  Under the existing employment protection legislation, most employees, including AIDS sufferers, who believe they have been dismissed unfairly may complain to an industrial tribunal, providing they have completed two years' continuous employment with their employer.

  Jobclub Places
  Mr. Andrew F. Bennett
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will take steps to remove the current six-month period of ineligibility for jobclub places which applies to persons who have just completed a I2-month placement on a community programme scheme; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Lee
  Many community programme managing agents and sponsers already do a great deal to help participants find permanent jobs. In addition, I have asked the Manpower Services Commission to explore new ways of doing this and a number of different pilot projects will be tested in the autumn. Access to jobclubs will be an important element of the pilot projects.

  Hospitality
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment how much has been spent by his Department on official hospitality in each of the last two financial years.

  Mr. Cope
  £22,000 in 1985–86 and £31,000 in 1986–87.

  Industrial Injury
  Mr. Cryer
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what number of days were lost due to industrial injury for each year from 1975 to 1986 inclusive; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Cope
  The table shows the estimated number of days of certified incapacity resulting from compensated industrial accidents. This information is available only up to April 1983 when industrial injury benefit was effectively abolished.

  Year (June to May)

  Number of days (millions)

  1974–75

  14·9

  1975–76

  n.a.

  1976–77

  14·5

  1977–78

  15·2

  1978–79

  15·2

  1979–80

  12·8

  1980–81

  10·6

  1981–82

  10·5

  1982–831

  9·3

  1Year ending 31 March 1983.

  Note: Figures for 1975-76 are not available.

  Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974
  Mr. Cryer
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what is the number of (a) improvement and (b) prohibition notices issued under the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 and the number of prosecutions for breach of the Act and associated regulations by the Health and Safety Commission for each year from 1975 to 1986.

  Mr. Cope
  The table shows the available information for 1975 to 1985. Data for 1986 are not yet available.

  Number of:

  Year

  (a)

  (b)

  (c)

  improvement notices

  prohibition notices

  prosecutions (cases heard)

  1975

  5,149

  2,450

  1,588

  1976

  7,499

  2,534

  1,327

  1977

  9,253

  3,130

  1,623

  1978

  12,217

  3,434

  1,671

  1979

  13,517

  3,674

  1,373

  1980

  12,625

  3,238

  1,443

  1981

  12,321

  3,185

  1,260

  1982

  13,034

  3,266

  1,427

  1983

  12,268

  3,805

  1,366

  1984

  12,237

  3,737

  1,269

  1985

  11,052

  3,479

  1,286

  (a), (b) all improvement and prohibition notices, including those issued by local authorities.

  (c) prosecutions taken by enforcing authorities, excluding those taken by local authorities.

  Mr. Cryer
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will list those responsibilities set out in regulations made under the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 which are enforced by local authorities; and if he will give the dates when these responsibilities were given.
  671
  Mr. Cope
  Under the Health and Safety (Enforcing Authority) Regulations 1977, local authorities are responsible for enforcing all relevant statutory provisions, as defined in section 53 of the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974, in premises where the main activity is one specified in schedule 1 to the Health and Safety (Enforcing Authority) Regulations 1977, subject to certain exceptions set out in regulation 4. These regulations came into operation on 1 June 1977. Schedule 1 was amended by regulations which came into operation on 29 December 1980 and 1 October 1985.

  Factories Act 1961
  Mr. Cryer
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment whether there are any provisions under negotiation with the European Economic Community regarding health and safety at work which will affect the provisions of section 14 of the Factories Act 1961; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Lee
  The European Commission is preparing a proposal for a directive to harmonise the laws of the member states relating to the safety of machines. The proposal is not yet in its final form and so negotiations at Council of Ministers level have not yet begun. The Government are being advised on the health and safety aspects of the proposal by the Health and Safety Commission. When the European Commission has completed its proposal it will be published in the Official Journal of the European Communities and will be available for consideration by the appropriate Select Committee of this House in the usual way.

  It does seem likely that the European Commission's proposal will have a bearing on section 14 of the Factories Act, but this remains to be seen.

  Manual Handling
  Mr. Cryer
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment (1) what progress has been made in producing a code of regulations dealing with the problem of manual handling following publication of the consultative document in 1982; and if he will make a statement;

  (2) if he will introduce legislation to remove the anomaly whereby agricultural workers are subject to a lifting limit of 170 lb, textile workers 120 lb, and other workers to reasonable loads; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Cope
  The Health and Safety Commission has set up a working group to prepare revised proposals on manual handling at work, in the light of the considerable volume of comment received on its 1982 proposals. The working group is considering the anomalous limits in earlier health and safety legislation.

  Mr. Cryer
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment how many accidents resulting in time off work were caused by manual handling in each year from 1980 to 1986 and in 1987 to the most recent practicable date.

  Mr. Cope
  The available information is for accidents described as "over exertion, strenuous or awkward movements and free bodily motion" and is shown in the table.
  672

  Year

  Major injuries1 to employees reported to Her Majesty's Factory Inspectors

  All reported injuries2 to employees in manufacturing and construction industry

  1981

  517

  44,710

  1982

  417

  39,904

  1983

  385

  n/a

  1984

  396

  n/a

  1985

  388

  n/a

  1 As defined in the Notification of Accidents and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations, 1980.

  2 Injuries resulting in more than three days absence from work and where industrial injury benefit was claimed.

  n/a = Not available, because the industrial injury benefit scheme effectively ceased in April 1983.

  Noise
  Mr. Cryer
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what progress is being made in producing regulations on the subject of noise at work; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Cope
  The Health and Safety Commission intends to publish consultative proposals within the next six months for regulations on this subject to be made under the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974.

  Underground Fires
  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment how many outbreaks of fire below ground and withdrawals of men due to smoke were reported in small licensed coal mines in 1986–87.

  Mr. Cope
  There were no incidents reported in 1986–87.

  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment how many outbreaks of fire below ground and withdrawals of men due to smoke were reported in British Coal Corporation collieries in 1986–87.

  Mr. Lee
  Nineteen incidents were reported during 1986–87.

  Collieries (Statistics)
  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment how many major injury accidents to persons on British Coal Corporation colliery books were reported in 1986–87.

  Mr. Cope
  There were 843 major injury accidents recorded at British Coal collieries in 1986–87.

  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment how many part I and part II dangerous occurrences were reported in British Coal Corporation collieries in the years 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984–85 and 1985–86, respectively.

  Mr. Cope
  The information requested is listed as follows:

  Number

  1976

  1201

  1977

  1201

  1978

  1201

  1979

  226

  1980

  197

  1981

  256

  673

  Number

  1982

  311

  1983

  328

  1984–852

  222

  1985–86

  272

  1 Average.

  2 15-month period including a period of industrial action.

  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment how many part I and part II dangerous occurrences were reported in small licensed coal mines in 1986–87.

  Mr. Cope
  There was one part I dangerous occurrence and five part II dangerous occurrences reported in 1986–87.

  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment how many part I and part II dangerous occurrences were reported in British Coal Corporation collieries in 1986–87.

  Mr. Cope
  There were 24 part I dangerous occurrrences and 338 part II dangerous occurences reported in 1986–87.

  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what was the major injury accident rate per 100,000 manshifts to persons on colliery books, reported in 1986–87 in British Coal Corporation collieries.

  Mr. Cope
  The major injury accident rate at British Coal collieries in 1986–87 was 3·05 per 100,000 manshifts.

  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will place in the Library an analysis of all the major injury accidents to persons on British Coal Corporation colliery books that were reported in 1986–87.

  Mr. Cope
  The information is not yet available. Publications containing the information required will be placed in the Library as soon as they become available.

  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what was the major injury accident rate per 100,000 manshifts in British Coal Corporation collieries and to persons not on British Coal Corporation colliery books, but working at British Coal Corporation collieries, reported in 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1984–85, 1985–86 and 1986–87, respectively.

  Mr. Lee
  Information is available only for those persons on British Coal Colliery books and it was as follows:

  Year

  Per 100,000 manshifts

  1981–82

  1·69

  1982–83

  1·69

  1983–84

  1·82

  1984–85

  1·43

  1985–86

  1·94

  1986–87

  3·05

  It is not possible to supply rates for those persons not on colliery books.

  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what was the major injury accident rate per 100,000 manshifts in British Coal Corporation collieries to persons not on colliery books in 1986–87.

  Mr. Cope
  It is not possible to provide rates for those persons not on colliery books.
  674
  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment how many major injury accidents in British Coal Corporation collieries affecting persons not on colliery books were reported in 1986–87.

  Mr. Cope
  Eighty-seven major injury accidents were reported in 1986–87.

  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment how many fatalities and major injury accidents were reported in small licensed coal mines in 1986–87.

  Mr. Lee
  Fifty-two major injury accidents and three fatal accidents were reported in 1986–87.

  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State For Employment if he will provide the following information in respect of each major injury accident occurring in 1986–87 to persons on British Coal Corporation colliery books (a) location, distinguishing between underground or surface, (b) occupation of accident victims, (c) location in colliery and site of accident, (d) time and date of accident and (e) brief description of accident.

  Mr. Cope
  The information is not available in the form requested. It could be obtained only at disproportionate cost.

  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what effect the introduction of the Riddor regulations has had on the number of part I and part II dangerous occurrences reported in British Coal Corporation collieries.

  Mr. Cope
  In British coal mines 24 dangerous occurrences were reported in 1986–87 under part I of RIDDOR. Two of these are attributable to the effect of RIDDOR, one being a new category and one transferred from part II.

  Two hundred and thirty eight dangerous occurrences were reported under part II of RIDDOR; 106 incidents were in new categories introduced by RIDDOR; seven accidents were reported which would have been dangerous occurrences under part II of the previous reporting arrangements.

  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what effect the introduction of the Riddor regulations has had on the number of major injury accidents reported in the coal industry.

  Mr. Cope
  There were 982 major injury accidents in 1986–87 in coal mines, compared with 732 major injury accidents in 1985–86, representing an increase of 34·2 per cent.

  Of the 982 accidents reported in 1986–87, 295 (representing 30.04 per cent.) were estimated to be due to the effects of RIDDOR.

  Mr. Meale
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what effect the introduction of the Riddor regulations has had on the number of part I and part II dangerous occurrences reported in small licensed coal mines.

  Mr. Cope
  In 1986–87 at licensed coal mines there was one dangerous occurrence reported under part I of RIDDOR and five dangerous occurrences under part II. The one incident in part I was attributable to the introduction of RIDDOR. The five incidents under part II would have been reported under the previous arrangements.

  Tourist Grant (Kidderminster)
  Mr. Anthony Coombs
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will ensure that the proposed application for tourist grant, via the English Tourist Board, for a hotel, conference and leisure complex in Kidderminster, will be dealt with expeditiously.

  Mr. Lee
  Yes. The English Tourist Board always aims to deal with applications for section 4 assistance as quickly and efficiently as possible.

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what is the estimated expenditure of his Department in the current year on management and computer consultancy.

  Mr. Cope
  The estimated expenditure in the Department of Employment group in 1987–88 on management and computer consultancy is £3·1 million.

  Small Businesses
  Mr. Amess
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will make a statement on present initiatives to help small businesses.

  Mr. Cope
  I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Mr. Shaw) on 20 July at columns 3–5 which set out some of the recent and current initiatives being pursued by my Department as part of its assistance to small businesses.

  Hotel Classifications
  Sir Brandon Rhys Williams
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will make it his policy to require the availability either of 24-hour room service or of mini-bar facilities to be featured in hotel classifications.

  Mr. Cope
  This is a matter for the English Tourist Board. However, I understand that the availability of 24-hour room service is one of the requirements for a hotel to be awarded five crowns under the English Tourist Board's crown classification scheme.

  Professional and Executive Register
  Mr. Teddy Taylor
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment when Her Majesty's Government intend to privatise the Professional and Executive Register: if opportunities will be provided to outside organizations

  Destination of youth opportunities programmes and youth training scheme leavers

  Youth opportunities programmes1

  Youth training scheme2

  1979–80

  1980–81

  1981–82

  1982–83

  31984–85

  41985–86

  Full time job with some employer

  22

  20

  21

  18

  24

  28

  Full time job with different employer

  30

  24

  25

  27

  31

  25

  Part-time job

  5—

  5—

  5—

  5—

  61

  74

  Full-time course

  2

  3

  2

  3

  3

  3

  On another youth training scheme

  8

  8

  8

  9

  6

  6

  Something else

  4

  4

  5

  6

  3

  6

  Unemployed

  34

  40

  39

  37

  32

  28

  1 Figures for the youth opportunities programme refer to those studying their scheme in the relevant year.

  2 Figures for youth training scheme refer to those leaving their scheme in the relevant year.

  3 This year is made up of two separate periods. April 1984 to July 1984 a survey of 10 per cent, of leavers in nine selected area offices and June 1984 to March 1985 a 15 per cent, national follow-up of youth training scheme leavers.

  676
  and companies to bid for it; and what was the financial performance of the Professional and Executive Register in the more recent year for which figures are available.

  Mr. Fowler
  [pursuant to his reply, 21 July 1987, c.165]: As my right hon. and learned Friend the Paymaster General said earlier this year, the Government have
  "no present plans to change the basis of operation of the service but its future is kept under review".

  According to provisional accounts PER bettered its objective of recovering all its expenditure from fee income by some £37,000 in 1986–87.

  Wider Opportunities Training Programme
  Ms. Richardson
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment whether he will state the amount of money by which the funding of the wider opportunities training programme is to be reduced, when this reduction will start, how many places in the programme will be lost and what is his estimate as to how many places in the programme will be lost and what is his estimate as to how many of the places lost will be for women and how many for men.

  Mr. Cope
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: We have no present plans to reduce either the funding of the wider opportunities training programme (WOTP) or the number of places for men or women.

  Youth Training
  Mr. Frank Field
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will detail the number and percentage of youth opportunities programme and youth training scheme graduates who (a) gain employment, (b) go on to further training, (c) return to (i) full-time and (ii) part-time education, (d) become unemployed and (e) went on to other destinations for each of the last 10 years; and if these dates can be further analysed by social class of the graduate's parents.

  Mr. Cope
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: Information is not available in the precise form requested.

  The information on the destination of trainees after leaving the youth opportunities programme or youth training scheme is given in the table. The figures relating to the youth opportunities programme are taken from a postal follow-up survey of trainees, conducted 12 months after they joined the programme. Information on the youth training scheme is taken from a regular postal follow-up survey, covering 15 per cent. of leavers. From April 1985 the survey was extended to cover all (100 per cent.) youth training scheme leavers.
  677
  4 100 per cent. national follow-up of youth training scheme leavers.

  5 No separate analysis of part-time employment carried out.

  6 Although there was no separate question on part-time work, the answer was written by 1 per cent. leavers.

  7 A separate question on part-time work was introduced for the first time in this survey.

  It is not possible further to analyse this data by the social class of the graduate's parents.

  Publicity (Departmental Expenditure)
  Mr. Dobson
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what was the total spending by his Department on press and public relations in 1986–87; and what is the estimated expenditure for the current year.

  Mr. Fowler
  [pursuant to his reply, 24 July 1987]: The information requested is given in the table:

  Department of Employment

  £ million

  1986–87

  1·1

  1987–88

  1·17

  Note: These figures represent general administratitve expenditure relating to costs for staff, accommodation and for regional services.

  Mr. Dobson
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what was the total spending by the Manpower Services Commission on press and public relations in 1986–87; and what is the estimated expenditure for the current year.

  Mr. Fowler
  [pursuant to his reply, 24 July 1987]: The information requested is given in the table:

  Manpower Services Commission

  £ million

  1986–87

  0·99

  1987–88

  1·22

  Note:

  These figures represent general administrative expenditure relating to costs for staff, accommodation and for regional services.

  Mr. Dobson
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment (1) what was the total spending by his Department on television, radio and newspaper advertising and estimated expenditure for the current year;

  (2) what was the total spending by his Department on television, radio and newspaper advertising and estimated expenditure for the current year.

  Mr. Fowler
  [pursuant to his reply, 24 July 1987]: The total spending by my Department for 1986–87 was as follows:

  £ million expenditure

  Department of Employment

  £ million

  TV

  9·3

  Press

  3·0

  Other

  4·1

  Total

  16·4

  Note:

  The figures for radio advertising are not available separately.

  The estimated expenditure for my Department for the current year is £11·2 million. A detailed breakdown of this amongst the various media is not yet available.

  Mr. Dobson
  asked the Secretary of State for Employment what was the total spending by the
  678
  Manpower Services Commission on television, radio and newspaper advertising and other promotional literature in 1986–87; and what is the estimated expenditure for the current year.

  Mr. Fowler
  [pursuant to his reply, 24 July 1987]: The total spending by the MSC for 1986–7 was as follows:

  £ million expenditure

  Manpower Services Commission

  £ million

  TV

  15·6

  Press

  7·2

  Other

  12·1

  Total

  34·9

  Note:

  The figures for radio advertising are not available separately.

  The estimated expenditure for the current year for the MSC is £32·2 million. A detailed breakdown of this amongst the various media is not yet available.

SOCIAL SERVICES

  Condoms
  Mr. Irving
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will take steps to ensure that condoms sold in the United Kingdom must conform to the British Standards Institute and carry the BSI kite mark of quality testing and control.

  Mr. Newton
  There are no plans to control the sale of condoms, but we endorse the advice issued by the Family Planning Association that people should check that condoms conform to British Standard BS 3704. General guidance for the health service urges Health Authorities to purchase only products which conform to British Standard specifications.

  Waiting Lists (Nottingham)
  Mr. Allen
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will specify the waiting list for the City, Highbury General and QMC hospitals, Nottingham, in each of the specialties for which figures are held centrally (a) in 1979 and (b) at the latest date for which figures are available.

  Mr. Newton
  The information requested is given in the table. In 1979 only the first phase of the Queen's medical centre development was open. The second and larger phase was not completed until 1985. This development affected the local pattern of waiting lists. Waiting lists for the Nottingham district health authority as a whole were 8,327 at 31 December 1979 and 7,122 at 31 December 1986. In 1979 73,992 cases were treated in the district, compared to 98,352 in 1986.

  Number of cases on in-patient waiting list at 31 December

  Specialty

  1979

  1986

  Nottingham city hospital

  Rheumatology

  4

  —

  Geriatrics

  —

  —

  679

  Specialty

  1979

  1986

  General surgery

  264

  140

  Traumatic and orthopaedic

  493

  290

  Urology

  178

  77

  Plastic surgery

  1,592

  1,160

  Thoracic surgery

  26

  47

  Gynaecology

  1,855

  658

  Paediatric surgery

  —

  —

  Total

  4,412

  2,372

  Highbury hospital

  Total

  0

  0

  Nottingham general hospital

  Neurology

  5

  —

  General surgery

  266

  —

  Ear, nose and throat

  1,108

  —

  Oral surgery

  299

  844

  Gynaecology

  —

  —

  Total

  1,678

  844

  University hospital, Queen's medical centre

  Dermatology

  —

  16

  Neurology

  —

  22

  Geriatrics

  —

  7

  General surgery

  374

  811

  Ear, nose and throat

  313

  1,491

  Traumatic and orthopaedic

  45

  352

  Ophthalmology

  —

  666

  Urology

  27

  124

  Neurosurgery

  —

  26

  Gynaecology

  —

  355

  Total

  759

  3,870

  Nurses
  Mr. Leighton
  asked the Secretary of State for Services (1) how many nurses have left the profession in the past 12 months;

  (2) how many nursing posts are vacant in the United Kingdom; and how many of those are in London.

  Ms. Abbott
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement about the shortage of nurses in London.

  Sir Barney Hayhoe
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what steps he is taking to improve the recruitment, retention and motivation of nursing and other staffs in the hospital services in London.

  Mr. Newton
  Information about nursing and midwifery staff vacancies and the number of nurses and midwives who left the profession are not collected centrally.

  The NHS Management Board has commended to health authorities a number of measures to improve the recruitment and retention of nursing staff. The board is currently considering what further action may be required at national or local level in the light of the latest information about the recruitment and retention situation in London. Although the available information relates mainly to nursing, the relevance of any proposed action to other staff groups is also being considered.

  Mr. Leighton a
  sked the Secretary of State for Social Services what information he has as to how many British nurses are to work in the United States of America as a result of the recent nursing jobs fair.

  Mr. Newton
  Not enough to make an assessment

  Single Mothers (Benefit)
  Mr. Frank Field
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will list the number of single mothers on benefit now and in 1979; and if the number can be given accurately as to whether the mother is aged between 16 and 17, 17 and 18, 18 and 19, 19 and 20, 20 and 21, 21 and 25, 25 and 30, and 30 and by the number of children for whom each mother is responsible.

  Mr. Scott
  The information is not available in exactly the form requested but the following details may be helpful:

  Supplementary Benefit

  The total number of lone mothers together with the total number of children at November 1979 and February 1986 is as follows:

  Lone mothers

  Children

  November 1979

  302,000

  524,000

  February 1986

  562,000

  919,000

  A limited amount of information is available on lone mothers not classified as widows, sick or disabled, or unemployed and this is as follows:

  Lone mothers

  Children

  November 1979

  297,000

  517,000

  February 1986

  553,000

  910,000

  Lone mothers by age (thousands)

  Age

  November 1979

  February 1986

  16

  1

  2

  17

  4

  5

  18

  6

  12

  19

  9

  15

  20

  11

  21

  21–24

  49

  107

  25–29

  60

  134

  30–34

  62

  102

  35 and over

  95

  156

  Total

  297

  553

  Columns may not sum to total due to rounding.

  Lone mothers by number of children

  Thousands

  Number of children

  November 1979 cases

  February 1986 cases

  One

  154

  301

  Two

  89

  173

  Three

  36

  58

  Four

  14

  16

  Five

  4

  3

  Six

  1

  1

  Seven

  1—

  1—

  Eight

  —

  —

  Nine

  —

  —

  Total

  297

  553

  1 Less than 500.

  Note: Columns may not sum to totals due to rounding.

  Source: All data: Annual Statistical Enquiries.
  681
  One Parent Benefit

  The total number of lone parents receiving one parent benefit (the vast majority of which will be lone mothers) together with the total number of children at 1979 and 1987 is as follows:

  Lone parents

  Children

  December 1979

  381,000

  595,000

  June 1987

  642,000

  964,000

  Table 31.34 of "Social Security Statistics 1986", a copy of which is in the Library, records the numbers of families receiving one parent benefit and the numbers of children in those families for years up to 1985.

  Widowed mother's allowance with dependent children

  The number receiving widowed mother's allowance with dependent children in 1979 and 1986 is as follows:

  Widowed mothers

  Children

  November 1979

  86,590

  132,230

  September 1986

  58,280

  86,310

  Tables 11.34, 11.38 and 11.39 of the "Social Security Statistics 1986" give some information about the age ranges of widows and the average number of children.

  Family income supplement

  Family income supplement payable to female lone parents in 1979 and 1986 is as follows:

  Lone parents female

  Children (approx.)

  December 1979

  44,000

  93,000

  April 1986

  83,000

  131,000

  Table 32.50 and 32.40 of the "Social Security Statistics 1986" give some information about the

  Hospital medical consultants in surgical specialties 1 analysis by specialty and nature of contract with employing authority in England

  30 September 1986

  Surgical specialties

  Number

  Employing Authority

  General Surgery

  Cardio-thoracic Surgery

  Otolaryngology

  Whole-time

  2 Part-time

  Honorary

  Whole-time

  2 Part-time

  Honorary

  Whole-time

  2 Part-time

  Honorary

  Northern RHA

  27

  32

  —

  5

  —

  —

  9

  13

  —

  Newcastle DHA

  5

  6

  2

  4

  1

  1

  2

  6

  —

  Yorkshire RHA

  11

  37

  —

  —

  3

  —

  4

  14

  —

  Leeds Western DHA

  —

  6

  1

  —

  1

  —

  —

  2

  —

  Leeds Eastern DHA

  —

  4

  1

  2

  1

  —

  1

  1

  —

  Trent RHA

  13

  30

  —

  4

  2

  —

  4

  17

  —

  Leicestershire DHA

  2

  7

  5

  3

  —

  —

  1

  4

  —

  Nottingham DHA

  3

  6

  3

  1

  1

  —

  1

  3

  1

  Sheffield DHA

  7

  3

  4

  3

  1

  —

  2

  3

  —

  East Anglia RHA

  6

  20

  1

  3

  2

  —

  1

  12

  —

  Cambridge DHA

  1

  3

  2

  1

  2

  —

  —

  3

  —

  682
  numbers of children in one parent families where the female is head of household and the age ranges of heads of families.

  Cancer Screening
  Mr. Heddle
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services (1) when he expects a screening centre will be established in the Mid Staffordshire health authority following the recommendations of the working group chaired by Professor Sir Patrick Forrest;

  (2) when he expects a screening centre will be established in the South East Staffordshire health authority following the recommendations of the working group chaired by Professor Sir Patrick Forrest.

  Mr. Anthony Coombs
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services when he expects a screening centre will be established in Kidderminster following the recommendations of the working group chaired by Professor Sir Patrick Forrest.

  Mrs. Currie
  I refer my hon. Friends to the reply I gave yesterday to my hon. Friend the Member for Swindon (Mr. Coombs). For information about plans for further centres in the regions and more details about the first centres, including catchment areas, I suggest my hon. Friends consult the regional health authorities concerned.

  NHS (Consultants)
  Mr. Galbraith
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will publish a table showing the number of whole-time and the number of part-time consultants in each surgical specialty in each hospital in England and Wales.

  Mr. Newton
  The information is not held centrally in the form requested. The table sets out available data in respect of employing authorities in England. The information about Wales is the responsibility of my right hon. Friend, the Secretary of State for Wales.
  683

  Employing Authority

  General Surgery

  Cardio-thoracic Surgery

  Otolaryngology

  Whole-time

  2Part-time

  Honorary

  Whole-time

  2 Part-time

  Honorary

  Whole-time

  2 Part-time

  Honorary

  North West Thames RHA

  7

  43

  1

  2

  3

  —

  4

  12

  1

  Paddington and North Kensington DHA

  2

  4

  6

  —

  1

  1

  —

  2

  1

  Riverside DHA

  1

  7

  5

  —

  1

  1

  —

  5

  —

  North East Thames RHA

  6

  42

  1

  2

  —

  1

  2

  16

  2

  Hampstead DHA

  1

  4

  4

  1

  —

  —

  1

  2

  —

  Bloomsbury DHA

  1

  6

  6

  1

  2

  1

  1

  12

  3

  City and Hackney DHA

  —

  10

  3

  1

  1

  —

  1

  4

  —

  Tower Hamlets DHA

  —

  5

  3

  —

  3

  —

  —

  2

  —

  South East Thames RHA

  8

  47

  4

  4

  1

  —

  4

  18

  —

  West Lambeth DHA

  —

  6

  3

  —

  2

  —

  —

  3

  —

  Camberwell DHA

  1

  3

  3

  —

  2

  —

  —

  3

  —

  Lewisham and North Southwark DHA

  1

  9

  5

  —

  3

  —

  3

  4

  —

  South West Thames RHA

  2

  42

  4

  2

  3

  4

  5

  20

  —

  Wandsworth DHA

  —

  6

  2

  2

  2

  —

  —

  4

  —

  Wessex RHA

  7

  28

  1

  —

  —

  —

  7

  14

  —

  Southampton and South West Hampshire DHA

  —

  4

  3

  2

  4

  —

  1

  2

  —

  Oxford RHA

  4

  28

  —

  2

  —

  —

  6

  8

  —

  Oxfordshire DHA

  1

  9

  5

  1

  —

  —

  —

  3

  1

  South Western RHA

  13

  32

  6

  3

  3

  1

  3

  16

  1

  Bristol and Western DHA

  —

  8

  3

  2

  1

  —

  —

  4

  —

  West Midlands RHA

  15

  64

  3

  5

  4

  —

  10

  29

  —

  Central Birmingham DHA

  3

  7

  4

  2

  2

  —

  3

  2

  —

  Mersey RHA

  12

  28

  1

  3

  —

  —

  4

  7

  1

  Liverpool Central DHA

  3

  5

  6

  6

  2

  —

  —

  4

  1

  North Western RHA

  16

  43

  —

  3

  5

  —

  5

  22

  —

  Central Manchester DHA

  —

  4

  3

  2

  1

  —

  —

  3

  —

  South Manchester DHA

  2

  4

  3

  4

  2

  —

  1

  3

  —

  Salford DHA

  1

  3

  2

  1

  —

  —

  —

  2

  —

  Hospital for Sick Children

  —

  —

  —

  —

  3

  —

  1

  2

  —

  The National Hospitals for Nervous Diseases

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  1

  1

  1

  —

  Moorfields Eye Hospitals

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  1

  —

  The Bethlem Royal Hospital and Maudsley Hospital

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  The National Heart and Chest Hospitals

  —

  —

  —

  1

  9

  1

  1

  1

  —

  The Royal Marsden Hospital

  —

  4

  1

  —

  —

  —

  —

  1

  —

  Hammersmith Special Health Authority and Queen Charlotte's Hospital for Women

  —

  1

  10

  —

  1

  3

  —

  —

  1

  The Eastman Dental Hospital

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Total

  182

  660

  120

  78

  75

  15

  89

  310

  13

  1 Including Senior Hospital Medical Officer with allowance. Figures relate to the number of contracts. Consultants holding multiple contracts within same or different Employing Authority are counted more than once.

  2 Including maximum part time.

  Number

  Employing authority

  Neurosurgery

  Ophthalmology

  Paediatric Surgery

  Whole-time

  Part-time2

  Honorary

  Whole-time

  Part-time2

  Honorary

  Whole-time

  Part-time2

  Honorary

  Northern RHA

  2

  —

  —

  12

  10

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Newcastle DHA

  3

  1

  —

  3

  5

  —

  2

  —

  1

  684 685

  Employing authority

  Neurosurgery

  Ophthalmology

  Paediatric Surgery

  Whole-time

  Part-time2

  Honorary

  Whole-time

  Part-time2

  Honorary

  Whole-time

  Part-time2

  Honorary

  Yorkshire RHA

  1

  3

  —

  5

  21

  —

  —

  1

  —

  Leeds Western DHA

  2

  —

  —

  1

  2

  —

  —

  1

  —

  Leeds Eastern DHA

  —

  —

  —

  —

  2

  —

  1

  —

  —

  Trent RHA

  2

  —

  —

  1

  17

  1

  —

  —

  —

  Leicestershire DHA

  2

  —

  —

  —

  5

  2

  —

  —

  —

  Nottingham DHA

  3

  —

  —

  —

  5

  1

  2

  —

  —

  Sheffield DHA

  3

  —

  —

  —

  4

  1

  2

  —

  —

  East Anglia RHA

  2

  1

  —

  10

  8

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Cambridge DHA

  1

  2

  —

  1

  3

  1

  —

  —

  —

  North West Thames RHA

  —

  —

  2

  3

  13

  1

  —

  —

  —

  Paddington and North Kensington DHA

  —

  1

  —

  1

  4

  —

  —

  —

  1

  Riverside DHA

  1

  1

  —

  1

  6

  1

  —

  2

  —

  North East Thames RHA

  1

  2

  —

  5

  14

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Hampstead DHA

  —

  2

  —

  —

  2

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Bloomsbury DHA

  1

  1

  —

  —

  4

  —

  1

  —

  —

  City and Hackney DHA

  —

  2

  —

  —

  2

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Tower Hamlets DHA

  —

  1

  1

  —

  2

  —

  —

  —

  —

  South East Thames RHA

  2

  2

  1

  4

  24

  —

  1

  1

  —

  West Lambeth DHA

  —

  —

  1

  1

  8

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Camberwell DHA

  —

  1

  —

  —

  3

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Lewisham and North Southwark DHA

  2

  —

  —

  1

  4

  —

  —

  2

  —

  South West Thames RHA

  —

  4

  1

  5

  19

  1

  1

  2

  1

  Wandsworth DHA

  2

  2

  —

  —

  3

  1

  1

  —

  —

  Wessex RHA

  1

  —

  —

  4

  16

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Southampton and South West Hampshire DHA

  —

  —

  1

  1

  4

  —

  2

  1

  —

  Oxford RHA

  1

  1

  1

  1

  14

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Oxfordshire DHA

  1

  2

  1

  —

  3

  3

  —

  —

  —

  South Western RHA

  2

  4

  —

  5

  19

  2

  —

  —

  —

  Bristol and Weston DHA

  —

  —

  —

  —

  5

  2

  1

  1

  —

  West Midlands RHA

  2

  5

  3

  6

  32

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Central Birmingham DHA

  —

  3

  —

  1

  1

  —

  1

  2

  —

  Mersey RHA

  5

  1

  —

  6

  10

  —

  1

  —

  —

  Liverpool Central DHA

  —

  —

  —

  —

  6

  —

  2

  1

  1

  North Western RHA

  5

  4

  —

  6

  21

  —

  —

  1

  1

  Central Manchester DHA

  1

  1

  1

  1

  6

  1

  2

  1

  1

  South Manchester DHA

  —

  —

  —

  —

  2

  —

  2

  —

  —

  Salford DHA

  2

  1

  —

  —

  3

  —

  1

  1

  —

  Hospital for Sick Children

  —

  2

  —

  —

  3

  —

  1

  2

  3

  The National Hospitals for Nervous Diseases

  1

  3

  2

  —

  2

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Moorfields Eye Hospital

  —

  —

  —

  —

  21

  9

  —

  —

  —

  The Bethlem Royal Hospital and Maudsley Hospital

  1

  2

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  The National Heart and Chest Hospitals—

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  The Royal Marsden Hospital

  —

  —

  —

  —

  2

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Hammersmith Special Health Authority and Queen Charlotte's Hospital for Women

  —

  —

  —

  2

  —

  —

  1

  —

  —

  The Eastman Dental Hospital

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Total

  52

  55

  15

  87

  360

  27

  25

  19

  9

  1 Including Senior Hospital Medical Officer with allowance. Figures relate to the number of contracts. Consultants holding multiple contracts within same or different Employing Authority are counted more than once.

  2 Including maximum part-time.

  686 687

  Number

  Plastic Surgery

  Traumatic and Orthopaedic Surgery

  Urology

  Employing authority1

  Whole time

  Part time2

  Honorary

  Whole time

  Part time2

  Honorary

  Whole time

  Part time2

  Honorary

  Northern RHA

  2

  3

  —

  17

  27

  —

  2

  7

  —

  Newcastle DHA

  —

  4

  —

  3

  3

  1

  1

  3

  —

  Yorkshire RHA

  1

  4

  —

  10

  33

  —

  2

  8

  —

  Leeds Western DHA

  —

  —

  —

  1

  3

  1

  —

  2

  —

  Leeds Eastern DHA

  1

  2

  —

  —

  4

  1

  1

  1

  —

  Trent RHA

  —

  5

  —

  7

  30

  —

  3

  3

  —

  Leicestershire DHA

  —

  2

  —

  —

  8

  1

  —

  3

  —

  Nottingham DHA

  1

  2

  —

  —

  8

  1

  2

  2

  —

  Sheffield DHA

  2

  1

  —

  1

  7

  1

  2

  2

  —

  East Anglia RHA

  1

  4

  —

  9

  20

  1

  1

  7

  —

  Cambridge DHA

  —

  2

  —

  —

  5

  1

  1

  2

  —

  North West Thames RHA

  —

  8

  —

  10

  24

  1

  1

  4

  —

  Paddington and North Kensington DHA

  —

  1

  —

  1

  3

  —

  —

  2

  —

  Riverside DHA

  —

  4

  —

  —

  8

  1

  —

  4

  —

  North East Thames RHA

  —

  6

  1

  6

  36

  1

  2

  6

  2

  Hampstead DHA

  —

  1

  —

  —

  3

  —

  —

  1

  —

  Bloomsbury DHA

  —

  4

  —

  2

  13

  4

  1

  9

  3

  City and Hackney DHA

  —

  2

  —

  1

  4

  —

  —

  2

  —

  Tower Hamlets DHA

  —

  2

  1

  —

  4

  1

  —

  1

  2

  South East Thames RHA

  1

  5

  —

  3

  35

  —

  4

  9

  —

  West Lambeth DHA

  —

  1

  —

  —

  3

  —

  —

  3

  1

  Camberwell DHA

  —

  1

  —

  —

  4

  —

  —

  3

  —

  Lewisham and North Southwark DHA

  1

  2

  —

  2

  5

  —

  —

  3

  1

  South West Thames RHA

  —

  5

  —

  1

  32

  3

  —

  9

  —

  Wandsworth DHA

  —

  2

  1

  —

  4

  —

  —

  3

  —

  Wessex RHA

  1

  5

  —

  7

  25

  —

  2

  6

  —

  Southampton and South West Hampshire DHA

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  2

  —

  2

  —

  Oxford RHA

  2

  5

  —

  9

  16

  1

  —

  5

  —

  Oxfordshire DHA

  —

  2

  —

  1

  7

  2

  —

  1

  —

  South Western RHA

  1

  5

  1

  7

  26

  4

  3

  6

  —

  Bristol and Weston DHA

  —

  —

  —

  1

  8

  1

  —

  2

  —

  West Midlands RHA

  2

  7

  —

  20

  65

  4

  6

  12

  —

  Central Birmingham DHA

  —

  2

  —

  —

  7

  —

  —

  2

  —

  Mersey RHA

  3

  2

  —

  8

  19

  —

  3

  3

  —

  Liverpool Central DHA

  2

  3

  1

  4

  4

  2

  3

  1

  —

  North Western RHA

  1

  6

  —

  7

  50

  —

  2

  11

  —

  Central Manchester DHA

  —

  1

  —

  —

  2

  —

  —

  2

  —

  South Manchester DHA

  1

  3

  —

  —

  5

  —

  1

  1

  3

  Salford DHA

  —

  1

  —

  2

  2

  2

  —

  2

  —

  Hospital for Sick Children

  —

  2

  —

  —

  3

  —

  —

  2

  1

  The National Hospitals for Nervous Diseases

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Moorfields Eye Hospital

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  The Bethlem Royal Hospital and Maudsley Hospital

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  The National Heart and Chest Hospitals

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  The Royal Marsden Hospital

  —

  1

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  3

  —

  Hammersmith Special Health Authority and Queen Charlotte's Hospital for Women

  1

  —

  —

  —

  2

  1

  1

  —

  —

  The Eastman Dental Hospital

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  —

  Total

  24

  118

  5

  140

  567

  38

  44

  160

  13

  688 689
  1 Including Senior Hospital Medical Officer with allowance. Figures relate to the number of contracts. Consultants holding multiple contracts within same or different Employing Authority arc counted more than once.

  2 Including maximum part-time.

  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services when his Department last invited proposals from National Health Service managers on the provision of new consultant posts; what arrangements exist for the funding of consultant posts, including the initial funding of new posts; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Newton
  Under normal circumstances, funding for consultant posts is a matter for regional and special health authorities to determine, within their overall budget and as an integral part of service development. In addition to this, the Department has recently invited bids from health authorities for additional consultant posts in general medicine, general surgery and traumatic and orthopaedic surgery, under the pump-priming scheme set out in last year's consultative document "Hospital Medical Staffing: Achieving a Balance". This scheme is intended to boost normal consultant expansion, both on service and career grounds, by providing an additional 100 posts over the two years 1987–88 to 1988–first 45 of these posts were announced on 20 July, when HAs were also asked to bid for the remaining 55, to be allocated in 1988–89.

  The Department has set aside £8·6 million for this purpose. This additional funding will be provided centrally to each regional and special health authority and will be earmarked up to the end of 1990–91. After that time it will be built into each authority's baseline revenue allocations.

  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what studies have been made by his Department of the impact of new consultant posts on waiting lists for National Health Service treatment; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Newton
  No specific studies have been made. However several of the projects funded from the £25 million waiting list fund in 1987–88 involve the appointment (or earlier appointment) of consultants. Such projects will certainly result in more waiting list cases being treated but since these posts could also, in time, attract additional referrals from general practitioners the overall impact on waiting lists is more difficult to predict. There could, however, be a reduction in waiting times. The projects will be closely monitored.

  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether his Department has invited proposals from National Health Service managers on the provision of new consultant posts in connection with waiting lists for treatment; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Newton
  A number of the projects proposed by regions and supported from the waiting list fund have involved the appointment or earlier appointment of consultants (some on a temporary basis) in areas with problem waiting lists. An additional 100 consultant posts are also to be established as a result of the consultative document "Hospital Medical Staffing: Achieving a Balance", in general medicine, general surgery, and 690
  trauma and orthopaedic surgery. These appointments should have a further impact on waiting lists. The allocation to regions of the first 45 posts, announced on 20 July, took account of current staffing levels in those specialties, to ensure that they were allocated where most needed on service as well as career grounds.

  Benefits
  Mr. Ralph Howell
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services (1) if he will state the total number of people, including children, who are dependent on supplementary benefit for each of the years 1979 and 1987; and what is the projected number for 1990;

  (2) if he will state the total number of supplementary benefit recipients for each of the years 1979 and 1987; and what is the projected number for 1990.

  Mr. Scott
  The information is as follows:

  Number of supplementary benefit claimants (thousands)

  Number dependent on supplementary benefit (thousands)

  November 19791

  2,855

  4,370

  February 19871

  5,008

  8,350

  1989/902

  5,075

  n/a

  1The November 1979 figure is derived from the Annual Statistical Enquiry The February 1987 figure is derived from the Quarterly Statistical Enquiry The two figures are therefore not strictly comparable

  2Supplementary benefit will be replaced by income support in April 1988 The figure quoted is from the public expenditure White Paper, and is the projected average number of income support claimants in the financial year 1989/90 The estimate is based on the assumption that there will be no change from the number of people who would have been receiving supplementary benefit if it were not being replaced by income support

  Mr. Ralph Howell
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will state the total number of supplementary benefit recipients, including dependents, as defined for community charge purposes.

  Mr. Scott
  No such figures are available at present. The estimated increases in housing benefit caseload, as a result of the community charge replacing domestic rates, shown in Annex J of the Green Paper, Paying for Local Government (Cmnd. 9714) include those currently receiving supplementary benefit.

  Mr. Ralph Howell
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will state the total number of supplementary benefit recipients and the total cost for each year since 1979 to the latest date available.

  Mr. Scott
  The information is as follows:
  691

  Supplementary benefit claimants and cost

  Date

  Number (thousands)1

  Financial year

  £ million2

  November 1979

  2,855

  1979–80

  2,436

  December 1980

  3,118

  1980–81

  3,172

  December 1981

  3,723

  1981–82

  4,840

  December 1982

  4,267

  1982–83

  6,261

  December 1983

  4,349

  1983–84

  35,592

  December 1984

  4,609

  1984–85

  6,472

  February 1986

  4,938

  1985–86

  7,512

  February 1987

  5,008

  1986–87

  8,022

  1 The figures for 1979 to 1986 are derived from the Annual Statistical Enquiry. The figure for 1987 is derived from the Quarterly Statistical Enquiry. The 1987 figures are therefore not strictly comparable with those for the earlier years.

  2 The expenditure figures are drawn from the public expenditure White Papers.

  3 The reduction is due to the introduction of Housing Benefit.

  Mortality and Morbidity
  Mr. Frank Field
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what action is being taken by his Department in response to the increased rate of (a) mortality and (b) morbidity in winter periods compared with summer periods amongst (i) late neonatal babies, (ii) post-neonatal babies and (iii) pensioners.

  Mrs. Currie
  The underlying reasons for seasonal differences are very complex. We are concerned to reduce health problems encountered by vulnerable groups during the winter and policy is kept under active review. Among the steps already taken are the following.

  The Government already provide considerable help with fuel costs to the least well off through the supplementary benefit scale rates and heating additions. We have extended automatic payments in heating additions to householders aged 65 or over and to those with young children.

  The exceptionally cold weather scheme gives additional help to vulnerable groups. This year help has been given to twice as many people as in the previous scheme.

  The Health Education Authority, which is funded by Government, gives further advice in its publication — The Pregnancy Book — on the care of babies in cold weather. It has also published a booklet jointly with Age Concern—Warmth in Winter—on how to cut the cost of keeping warm.

  Cancer
  Mr. William Powell
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services (1) how many persons were known to be suffering from cancer and cancer-related diseases in the Kettering district health authority area in each year since 1982;

  (2) how many persons died of cancer and cancer-related diseases in the Kettering district health authority area in each year since 1982.

  Mrs. Currie
  Statistics from the registration of newly diagnosed cases of cancer are the nearest available data on the number of people suffering from cancer, and the latest available figures are shown in the table for usual residents of Kettering District Health Authority. The table also shows the number of deaths registered with underlying cause as cancer.
  692

  Number of registrations of newly diagnosed cases of cancer 1982, 1983 and number of deaths with underlying cause as malignant neoplasm (cancer)1 1982–1986 persons, all ages2, to usual residents of Kettering District Health Authority

  Year

  Cancer registrations

  Cancer deaths

  1982

  1,121

  610

  1983

  1,026

  603

  1984

  n/a

  637

  1985

  n/a

  708

  21986

  n/a

  681

  1 International Classification of Diseases 9th revision 140–208.

  2 Provisional, aged 28 days and over.

  n/a not available.

  Homoeopathy
  Mr. McAllion
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether the review of homoeopathic medicines, scheduled for 1990, will take full account of the unsuitability of clinical trials as the paramount indicators of safety and efficacy to homoeopathic and herbal medicines.

  Mrs. Currie
  Formal clinical trials for herbal medicines are required only when claims are made for the treatment of serious diseases. This policy was published in a Medicines Act Information letter of November 1985. The relevant advice of the Medicines Commission and of the Committee on Review of Medicines is given in their 1985 annual reports, copies of which are in the Library. Of the two, only herbal medicines are subject to the European Community requirement of review by 1990.

  Laundry Services (NHS)
  Mr. Allen
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement on the progress of privatising laundry services in the National Health Service.

  Mr. Newton
  Health authorities in England have made good progress with competitive tendering for laundry services. As at 31 March 1987, 83 per cent. of these services had been put out to tender. Total annual savings generated by contracts awarded at that date are estimated at £7·2 million —£5·6 million from 101 tenders secured by in-house organisations and £1·6 million from 23 contracts won by private contractors.

  Abortions
  Mr. Nicholas Bennett
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will list the number of abortions carried out in the United Kingdom in each year since 1967 (a) in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy and (b) in each week from the 12th to 28th week.

  Mr. Newton
  I regret that the information requested could be provided only at disproportionate cost.

  Ms. Richardson
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will list the numbers of non-National Health Service abortions performed under agency arrangements on National Health Service patients resident in each regional health authority and in each district health authority in England and Wales in 1986 and the estimated numbers of women aged 15 to 44 years resident in each regional health authority and district health authority in England and Wales in mid 1986.

  Mr. Newton
  The information is given in the table.
  693

  Number of notifications of abortions carried out under the Abortion Act 1967 in non-NHS premises to NHS patients under agency arrangements by Regional Health Authority (RHA) and District Health Authority (DHA) of usual residence, and estimated resident population of women aged 15–44 years

  England and Wales

  1986

  Area of usual residence

  Agency abortions

  Estimated female population aged 15–44 years

  Northern RHA

  2

  661,091

  Hartlepool DHA

  —

  19,568

  North Tees DHA

  —

  39,972

  South Tees DHA

  1

  64,150

  East Cumbria DHA

  1

  37,619

  South Cumbria DHA

  —

  36,005

  West Cumbria DHA

  —

  28,981

  Darlington DHA

  —

  26,264

  Durham DHA

  —

  51,947

  North West Durham DHA

  —

  17,848

  South West Durham DHA

  —

  32,695

  Northumberland DHA

  —

  63,430

  Gateshead DHA

  —

  43,440

  Newcastle

  —

  61,357

  North Tyneside DHA

  —

  39,778

  South Tyneside DHA

  —

  31,955

  Sunderland DHA

  —

  66,082

  Yorkshire RHA

  410

  777,219

  Hull DHA

  —

  66,105

  East Yorkshire DHA

  —

  39,526

  Grimsby DHA

  —

  34,174

  Scunthorpe DHA

  —

  42,112

  Northallerton DHA

  —

  24,526

  York DHA

  1

  58,090

  Scarborough DHA

  —

  28,400

  Harrogate DHA

  —

  29,209

  Bradford DHA

  —

  72,433

  Airedale DHA

  —

  35,901

  Calderdale DHA

  —

  40,972

  Huddersfield DHA

  250

  45,876

  Dewsbury DHA

  157

  35,896

  Leeds Western DHA

  —

  78,492

  Leeds Eastern DHA

  1

  76,549

  Wakefield DHA

  1

  32,384

  Pontefract DHA

  —

  36,574

  Trent RHA

  157

  1,008,165

  North Derbyshire DHA

  —

  76,231

  Southern Derbyshire DHA

  —

  113,082

  Leicestershire DHA

  71

  194,110

  North Lincolnshire DHA

  —

  58,032

  South Lincolnshire DHA

  —

  63,217

  Bassetlaw DHA

  7

  22,799

  Central Nottinghamshire DHA

  —

  61,592

  Nottingham DHA

  —

  137,061

  Barnsley DHA

  5

  47,543

  Doncaster DHA

  69

  62,901

  Rotherham DHA

  5

  55,081

  Sheffield DHA

  —

  116,516

  East Anglian RHA

  2

  429,333

  Cambridge DHA

  —

  61,545

  Peterborough DHA

  —

  45,768

  West Suffolk DHA

  2

  50,454

  East Suffolk DHA

  —

  66,742

  Norwich DHA

  —

  96,712

  Great Yarmouth and Waveney DHA

  —

  39,089

  West Norfolk and Wisbech DHA

  —

  37,668

  Huntingdon DHA

  —

  31,355

  North West Thames RHA

  929

  803,853

  North Bedfordshire DHA

  —

  56,168

  694

  Area of usual residence

  Agency abortions

  Estimated female population aged 15–44 years

  South Bedfordshire DHA

  2

  63,209

  North Hertfordshire DHA

  —

  41,313

  East Hertfordshire DHA

  2

  65,189

  North West Hertfordshire DHA

  2

  56,977

  South West Hertfordshire DHA

  2

  52,649

  Barnet DHA

  2

  69,956

  Harrow DHA

  32

  44,638

  Hillingdon DHA

  —

  51,148

  Hounslow and Spelthorne DHA

  2

  62,404

  Ealing DHA

  6

  70,009

  Brent DHA

  870

  61,338

  Paddington and North Kensington DHA

  5

  31,821

  Riverside DHA

  4

  77,038

  North East Thames RHA

  26

  845,423

  Basildon and Thurrock DHA

  —

  63,765

  Mid Essex DHA

  —

  66,375

  North East Essex DHA

  —

  61,233

  West Essex DHA

  —

  54,411

  Southend DHA

  —

  67,491

  Barking Havering and Brentwood DHA

  —

  96,257

  Hampstead DHA

  8

  28,953

  Bloomsbury DHA

  5

  34,564

  Islington DHA

  3

  41,418

  City and Hackney DHA

  —

  45,923

  Newham DHA

  —

  47,140

  Tower Hamlets DHA

  —

  33,959

  Enfield DHA

  3

  58,493

  Haringey DHA

  5

  47,060

  Redbridge DHA

  —

  49,303

  Waltham Forest DHA

  2

  49,078

  South East Thames RHA

  135

  781,282

  Brighton DHA

  9

  61,591

  Eastbourne DHA

  3

  43,753

  Hastings DHA

  2

  30,158

  South East Kent DHA

  —

  54,636

  Canterbury and Thanet DHA

  1

  59,429

  Dartford and Gravesham DHA

  2

  48,889

  Maidstone DHA

  —

  43,722

  Medway DHA

  2

  74,255

  Tunbridge Wells DHA

  1

  41,545

  Bexley DHA

  —

  49,162

  Greenwich DHA

  2

  49,299

  Bromley DHA

  —

  62,702

  West Lambeth DHA

  102

  39,800

  Camberwell DHA

  8

  50,713

  Lewisham and North Southwark DHA

  3

  71,628

  South West Thames RHA

  41

  641,945

  North West Surrey DHA

  —

  44,699

  West Surrey and North East Hampshire DHA

  2

  64,894

  South West Surrey DHA

  2

  39,318

  Mid Surrey DHA

  1

  34,201

  East Surrey DHA

  2

  39,356

  Chichester DHA

  2

  34,356

  Mid Downs DHA

  10

  60,552

  Worthing DHA

  7

  43,621

  Croydon DHA

  5

  72,516

  Kingston and Esher DHA

  —

  38,135

  Richmond Twickenham and Roehampton DHA

  1

  51,740

  Wandsworth DHA

  7

  45,844

  Merton and Sutton DHA

  2

  72,713

  695

  Area of usual residence

  Agency abortions

  Estimated female population aged 15–44 years

  Wessex RHA

  546

  612,601

  East Dorset DHA

  155

  36,276

  West Dorset DHA

  25

  39,737

  Portsmouth and South East Hampshire DHA

  50

  114,653

  Southampton and South West Hampshire DHA

  27

  88,326

  Winchester DHA

  45

  45,373

  Basingstoke and North Hampshire DHA

  58

  50,047

  Salisbury DHA

  29

  25,819

  Swindon DHA

  40

  53,116

  Bath DHA

  101

  85,659

  Isle of Wight DHA

  16

  23,595

  Oxford RHA

  15

  571,934

  East Berkshire DHA

  1

  91,487

  West Berkshire DHA

  1

  103,418

  Aylesbury Vale DHA

  —

  33,562

  Wycombe DHA

  2

  59,893

  Milton Keynes DHA

  1

  41,253

  Kettering DHA

  3

  55,994

  Northampton DHA

  5

  68,933

  Oxfordshire DHA

  2

  127,394

  South Western RHA

  16

  669,135

  Bristol and Weston DHA

  3

  30,777

  Frenchay DHA

  1

  49,057

  Southmead DHA

  —

  51,117

  Cornwall and Isles of Scilly DHA

  —

  91,137

  Exeter DHA

  3

  60,434

  North Devon DHA

  —

  26,575

  Plymouth DHA

  —

  70,959

  Torbay DHA

  2

  45,106

  Cheltenham and District DHA

  1

  45,328

  Gloucester DHA

  2

  66,859

  Somerset DHA

  4

  81,786

  West Midlands RHA

  4,529

  1,122,743

  Bromsgrove and Redditch DHA

  12

  37,772

  Herefordshire DHA

  2

  31,712

  Kidderminster and District DHA

  —

  22,176

  Worcester and District DHA

  4

  50,989

  Shorpshire DHA

  6

  85,573

  Mid Staffordshire DHA

  11

  70,295

  North Staffordshire DHA

  —

  97,268

  South East Staffordshire DHA

  3

  58,295

  Rugby DHA

  190

  17,741

  North Warwickshire DHA

  334

  38,998

  South Warwickshire DHA

  425

  49,494

  Central Birmingham DHA

  267

  38,941

  East Birmingham DHA

  301

  40,463

  North Birmingham DHA

  184

  35,648

  South Birmingham DHA

  350

  54,193

  West Birmingham DHA

  486

  45,712

  Coventry DHA

  654

  66,835

  Dudley DHA

  381

  64,892

  Sandwell DHA

  480

  68,386

  Solihull DHA

  139

  44,705

  Walsall DHA

  9

  55,871

  Wolverhampton DHA

  291

  52,784

  Mersey RHA

  —

  524,441

  Chester DHA

  —

  39,168

  Crewe DHA

  —

  53,891

  Halton DHA

  —

  32,025

  Macclesfield DHA

  —

  39,306

  Warrington DHA

  —

  41,033

  Liverpool DHA

  —

  103,305

  696

  Area of usual residence

  Agency abortions

  Estimated female population aged 15–44 years

  St. Helens and Knowsley DHA

  —

  78,421

  Southport and Formby DHA

  —

  23,888

  South Sefton DHA

  —

  38,800

  Wirral DHA

  —

  74,643

  North Western RHA

  3

  857,737

  Lancaster DHA

  —

  26,300

  Blackpool, Wyre and Fylde DHA

  —

  61,506

  Preston DHA

  —

  26,052

  Blackburn, Hyndburn and Ribble Valley DHA

  —

  56,697

  Burnley, Pendle and Rossendale DHA

  —

  47,294

  West Lancashire DHA

  —

  24,644

  Chorley and South Ribble DHA

  —

  43,621

  Bolton DHA

  —

  56,924

  Bury DHA

  —

  37,455

  North Manchester DHA

  —

  31,069

  Central Manchester DHA

  —

  28,838

  South Manchester DHA

  1

  40,804

  Oldham DHA

  —

  47,821

  Rochdale DHA

  2

  46,747

  Salford DHA

  —

  50,008

  Stockport DHA

  —

  63,429

  Tameside and Glossop DHA

  —

  53,288

  Trafford DHA

  —

  47,161

  Wigan DHA

  —

  68,075

  Wales

  8

  596,188

  Clwyd DHA

  1

  84,265

  East Dyfed DHA

  —

  46,093

  Pembrokeshire DHA

  —

  23,651

  Gwent DHA

  3

  94,724

  Gwynedd DHA

  —

  47,179

  Mid Glamorgan DHA

  2

  114,828

  Powys DHA

  —

  22,179

  South Glamorgan DHA

  1

  87,413

  West Glamorgan DHA

  1

  75,856

  NHS Treatment (Cost-effectiveness)
  Mr. Nicholas Bennett
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what research is being undertaken by or on behalf of his Department into the cost-effectiveness of different types of treatment in the National Health Service.

  Mrs. Currie
  The main Government-funded body for carrying out research on the effectiveness of different medical treatments is the Medical Research Council, which receives its grant-in-aid from the Department of Education and Science.

  A principal purpose of the Department's own research programmes is to increase the efficiency and effectiveness of the National Health Service. Many of the studies detailed in the latest edition of the Department's Handbook of Research and Development include a cost-effectiveness element. A copy is in the Library.

  Perioperative Death and Complication Rates
  Mr. Devlin
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement on the different levels of perioperative death and complication rates between the regional health authorities.

  Mrs. Currie
  I am sorry I cannot give my hon. Friend the information he seeks. Information could be provided only at disproportionate cost.

  Speech Therapists (Pay)
  Mr. Devlin
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will estimate the cost of implementing the claim of speech therapists for pay parity with clinical psychologists; and if he will make a statement on his consideration of the claim.

  Mr. Newton
  It is not possible to make meaningful comparisons between the pay of speech therapists and clinical psychologists because of differences in entry requirements, training, grading, job content and conditions of service. Pay negotiation is a matter for the Whitley council. I understand that negotiations are in progress on the 1987 pay claim.

  North Tees General Hospital
  Mr. Devlin
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement on the current shortfall in funding at North Tees general hospital.

  Mrs. Currie
  The provision of services locally is a matter for individual health authorities. My hon. Friend may therefore wish to write to the chairman of North Tees health authority for further information.

  Nurseries and Childminders Act 1948
  Mrs. Fyfe
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will take steps to update the Nurseries and Childminders Act 1948 as amended in 1968, to (a) tighten the definition of a fit person and (b) give the local authorities more control in the vetting procedures of registration.

  Mrs. Currie
  Proposals for rationalising and improving the law governing the regulation of day care services for pre-school age children in Great Britain are contained in the White Paper the Law on Child Care and Family Services published in January 1987. Legislation will be introduced as soon as the Parliamentary timetable allows.

  Housing Benefit
  Mr. Fatchett
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what are the latest available figures for the proportion of applications for housing benefit for private rented accommodation who, as a result of the amount of benefit awarded to them (a) have been unable to take up such accommodation or (b) have been unable to remain in such accommodation.

  Mr. Portillo
  Local authorities have statutory responsibility for administering the housing benefit scheme and information is not collected centrally on decisions taken in respect of individual awards of housing benefit.

  Disablement Services Authority
  Mr. Alfred Morris
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement on the progress of the work of the Disablement Services Authority.

  Mr. Scott
  The Disablement Services Authority came into existence on 1 July 1987, and it held its first meeting on that day. The Chairman, Lord Holderness, has discussed with me his preliminary plans for the authority's work, and I have every confidence in them, and in the authority.
  698
  I intend to adopt arrangements for an annual review of the authority's work similar to those which apply to other health authorities.

  NHS (Funding)
  Mr. McCrindle
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services (1) if he will make it his policy to link funding of the National Health Service to the growth in national income; and if he will make a statement;

  (2) if he will estimate the additional funding required to bring the funding of the National Health Service in line with national income predictions over the next two years; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Newton
  I assume my hon. Friend is referring to the proposal in the recent report by the Institute of Health Service Management/British Medical Association/Royal College of Nursing. We are studying the report's analysis and comments, taking account of the fact that the proper measure of the National Health Service is the record and growing amount of treatment and care it provides.

  The additional cost of increasing present planned gross expenditure on the National Health Service (Great Britain) in line with forecast growth of 2·5 per cent. per annum in GDP would be:

  £ million

  1988–89

  1,032

  1989–90

  1,605

  Rating Reform
  Mr. Simon Hughes
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services, when he plans to publish details of the proposed rebate system for community charge for those on low incomes.

  Mr. Scott
  Our aim is to issue draft regulations for consultation later this year.

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is the estimated expenditure of his Department in the current year on management and computer consultancy.

  Mr. Moore
  A total of £19·460 million. There may be additional added expenditure on certain computer projects which are currently being reviewed.

  Hospital Food
  Mr. Hinchliffe
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will take steps to amend national guidelines on hospital food to cover the usage of cook-chill catering methods; and if he will make a statement.

  Mrs. Currie
  I refer the hon. Member to my reply to the hon. Member for Peckham (Ms. Harman) on 23 July.

  Mr. Hinchliffe
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will arrange for his Department's inspectorate to undertake an urgent inquiry into proposals by Wakefield District Health Authority to introduce a cook-chill system of catering into Wakefield hospitals.

  Mrs. Currie
  No. The Yorkshire regional health authority has set up an expert committee which is looking
  699
  at the implementation in the Region of cook-chill, which can offer a safe and cost-effective way of providing patients with good quality food.

  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is the total number of National Health Service patient meals produced by cook-chill and their proportion of the total; and what was the equivalent figure for each of the years since 1982, by National Health Service region.

  Mrs. Currie
  I regret that this local information is not collected centrally.

  Severe Weather Payments
  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will publish in the Official Report the amount of money paid out in the last financial year by way of severe weather payments, the number of claims successfully made, the number of claims refused and the equivalent figures for the previous year.

  Mr. Scott
  The information which is available is as follows:

  1985–86

  Total number of payments: 458,061

  Total amount of benefit paid: £11,633,541

  Notes:

  (1) Payments made in this year were in respect of a prolonged period of exceptionally severe weather which lasted for most of February.

  (2) Information on the number of claims refused is not available.

  1986–87

  Total number of £5 payments: 2,040,372

  Total amount of benefit paid: £10,201,860

  Notes:

  (1) Payments were available in respect of 2 weeks of very cold weather in January. In some areas, payments were available for a third or fourth week.

  (2) Precise information on the number of successful claims is not available, but it is estimated that the number of claimants receiving help was approximately 950,000.

  Information on the number of claims refused in 1986–87 will be available shortly, and I will write to the hon. Member.

  Hypothermia
  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will publish in the Official Report the figures showing the number of deaths in each of the constituent parts of the United Kingdom which occurred last winter and which had hypothermia as a cause or contributory factor listed on the death certificate.

  Mrs. Currie
  The provisional numbers of deaths registered in the constituent parts of the United Kingdom with any mention of hypothermia on the death certificate, irrespective of whether it was or was not the underlying cause of death, during the period 1 October 1986 to 31 March 1987 are shown in the table.

  Number of deaths registered with any mention of hypothermia 1 October 1986—31 March 1987, persons, all ages England and Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland—Provisional

  Country

  Number

  England and Wales

  438

  Scotland

  133

  Northern Ireland

  7

  United Kingdom

  578

  NHS (Waiting Lists)
  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what recent exchanges have taken place between his Department and National Health Service managers on initiatives to reduce waiting lists for National Health Service treatment; what further decisions will be announced before the autumn; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Newton
  The current initiative to make significant improvements in waiting times for hospital treatment is a high priority for Ministers, the National Health Service Management Board and for managers and clinicians in the health service. It features regularly on the agendas of meetings between the Department and health services managers, to make sure that improvements are made this year and that efforts and resources are targetted most effectively for next year. This will be the aim of any further decisions to be announced.

  Mr. Amess
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement on current initiatives to reduce the waiting lists for joint replacements.

  Mr. Newton
  The projects supported from the £25 million waiting list fund in 1987–88 include at least 5,000 extra hip replacements. In 1985 37,650 such operations were carried out in England, an increase of 34 per cent., compared with 1979. The aim is to achieve a total of 48,000 operations per year by 1990, that is 1,500 operations per million population per year.

  Waiting List Fund
  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will publish a list showing the nature, location and value of expenditure authorised for 1987–88 and 1988–89 from the waiting list fund announced in November 1986; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Newton
  Full details of more than 350 schemes planned by Regional Health Authorities for the improvement of waiting lists and times in their districts supported from the waiting list fund of £25 million for 1987–88 were placed in the Library on 23 March 1987. Since then there have been only minor alterations to some of the projects to take account of changing circumstances. No expenditure has yet been authorised from the £25 million fund for 1988–89.

  Telephone Exchange for the Deaf
  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what representations he has received concerning the future of the telephone exchange for the deaf.

  Mr. Scott
  We have received representations from the Royal National Institute for the Deaf and from five hon. and right hon. Members.

  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if his Department will provide the resources to guarantee the future of the Royal National Institute for the Dears telephone exchange for the deaf; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Heathcoat-Amory
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will consider revenue funding for the telephone exchange for the deaf run by the Royal National Institute for the Deaf.
  701
  Mr. Scott
  The Manpower Services Commission is at present providing staffing assistance for the exchange through the community programme, and equipment has been provided by British Telecom. We are considering representations from the Royal National Institute for the Deaf about the long-term future of the project.

  Pensioners
  Mr. Battle
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services how many people of pensionable age there are at present in Leeds, West; what proportion of the population of Leeds, West they represent; and what were the corresponding figures for 1957, 1967 and 1977.

  Mrs. Currie
  The available information on the number of persons of pensionable age (males aged 65 and over and females aged 60 and over) for parliamentary constituencies comes from the 1971 and 1981 Censuses of Population.

  The information for Leeds, West is as follows:—

  Persons of pensionable age Number (thousands)

  Per cent. of total population

  1971 (1974 boundary)1

  14·0

  16·0

  1981 (1974 boundary) 2

  13·7

  17·7

  1981 (1983 boundary) 2

  16·5

  18·9

  1 Population present in Leeds West on Census night.

  2 Population usually resident in Leeds West.

  Supplementary Benefit
  Mr. Battle
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services (1) how many single parent families live on or below supplementary benefit level in Leeds, West; and what proportion of single parent families in Leeds, West this represents;

  (2) how many people of pensionable age in Leeds, West are on or below supplementary benefit level; and what proportion of people of pensionable age they represent.

  Mr. Scott
  I regret that statistically reliable figures cannot be provided in the manner requested.

  Mr. Tony Lloyd
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will publish a breakdown of current times from the lodging of an appeal against refusal of supplementary benefit single payment to the appeal being heard by the Social Security Tribunal for the different tribunal locations in England and Wales.

  Mr. Portillo
  National administrative statistics of social security appeals are not disaggregated for localities smaller than a social security region.

  In the quarter ending 31 December 1986 (the latest period for which statistics are available) the average number of weeks from lodgement of a single payment appeal to hearing was as follows:—

  Social Security Region

  Number of Weeks

  Northern Eastern

  11·5

  London North

  14·1

  London South

  18·8

  Wales and South Western

  11·7

  Midlands

  12·5

  North Western

  11·4

  Great Britain

  12·4

  Mr. Alton
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is the total expenditure on supplementary benefit for each year since 1979.
  702
  Mr. Scott
  The information requested is as follows:

  Supplementary benefit expenditure. Great Britain

  £ million

  Year

  Cash Expenditure

  1979–80

  2·436

  1980–81

  3·172

  1981–82

  4·840

  1982–83

  6·261

  1983–84

  15·592

  1984–85

  6·472

  1985–86

  7·512

  21986–87

  8·022

  1 The fall between 1982–83 and 1983–84 reflects the introduction of housing benefit; in 1982–83 and earlier years the housing requirements of supplementary benefit recipients living in local authority housing or in privately rented accommodation were met by supplementary benefit. From November 1982 some, and from April 1983 all, such people had those requirements met by housing benefit.

  2 Estimated outturn; final figures are not yet available.

  Mr. Bowis
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what are the reasons for the pocket money differential in supplementary benefit payments to long term patients in mental hospitals and to boarders in residential care accommodation of £7·90 and £11·50 per week, respectively; and if he will explain how these figures are calculated.

  Mr. Portillo
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: The pocket money allowance for people in hospital is currently £7·90 and this represents 20 per cent. of the basic retirement pension. The personal expenses allowance for people in residential care and nursing homes is £9·25. For people in ordinary board and lodging and hostels, there are two rates of personal expenses; the short term rate of £10·00 and the long term rate of £11·15.

  The personal expenses rate for people in residential care and nursing homes was introduced in 1985 and it was pitched roughly midway between the hospital pocket money allowance (and the personal expenses allowance for people in local authority residential accommodation which is at the same rate) and the personal expenses allowance for ordinary board and lodging. This reflects the fact that people in residential care and nursing homes tend to have fewer incidental expenses than people in ordinary board and lodging but more than people in hospital.

  Milk
  Mr. Kirkwood
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services (1) whether he will take steps to develop an education programme promoting the consumption of whole milk, with particular reference to infants and children up to the age of five years of age; and if he will make a statement;

  (2) what is Her Majesty's Government's policy towards the role of milk and dairy products in achieving a healthy and balanced diet;

  (3) what assessment his Department makes, and what expert advice he receives from outside his Department, concerning the nutriousness and palatibility of milk and dairy products and as to their role within a healthy and varied diet.

  Mrs. Currie
  We look to the Chief Medical Officer's Committee on Medical Aspects of Food Policy (COMA) for advice about food and health. Earlier this year the COMA panel on child nutrition published advice to health
  703
  professionals recommending the use of whole cows' milk for children under five. We also plan to produce a health education booklet of guidance to health professionals based upon the forthcoming COMA report, "Present-Day Practice in Infant Feeding". In general we consider milk and dairy products a valuable part of the diet of infants and children under five years of age and as contributing to a balanced diet for adults.

  Allowances
  Mr. Wigley
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services how many people in Wales are currently receiving invalid care allowance and attendance allowance.

  Mr. Scott
  At 31 March 1986, the latest date for which information is available, attendance allowance was in payment to some 44,000 people in Wales. I regret that information is not available for invalid care allowance.

  Residential Homes
  Mrs. Mahon
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will give the total cost to his Department of payments to residents to enable them to stay in private residential homes.

  Mr. Portillo
  Provisional estimates show that in February 1986 the total annual cost of supplementary benefit payments to people in private and voluntary residential care and nursing homes was £459 million. It is not possible to separate out amounts paid to people in private homes alone.

  Mrs. Mahon
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will list the private residential homes that have been opened since 1979 in Halifax; and if he will break down the list to indicate the purpose and the number of beds.

  Mrs. Currie
  I regret that information is not available centrally in the form requested. Details held on residential homes relate to the numbers of homes, places and residents, by client group, within each local authority social services area. In 1979 there were eight private homes for the elderly, with a total 100 places, in the Calderdale district. In 1986 the number of such homes had increased to 22 and the number of places to 306. There are no private homes in Calderdale for client groups other than the elderly. The "Directory of Private Hospitals and Health Services" includes a list of registered homes in Calderdale and elsewhere. A copy of the latest edition, published in november 1986, is in the Library.

  Invalidity Payments
  Mr. Blunkett
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will give the number of cases where applications relating to invalidity payments for married women have been outstanding (a) for more than 12 months, (b) for more than six months, (c) for more than three months and (d) in total.

  Mr. Scott
  I regret that the requested information is not available, but at 17 July some 120,000 invalid care allowance claims had been received from married women of which about 31,500 were awaiting decision. The average time taken to process an invalid care allowance claim is currently about 19·2 weeks.
  704
  Mr. Skinner
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will take steps to ensure that applicants for invalid care allowance are informed whether award of invalid care allowance will affect any other allowance of any kind for any member of the same family; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Scott
  Information about the effect of invalid care allowance (ICA) on social security and related benefits which may be paid to claimants or members of their families is contained in leaflet NI 212 which incorporates the ICA claim form and is seen by all claimants. It would not be practicable to attempt an exhaustive account of any wider effect on domestic incomes of ICA payments.

  Nye Bevan Lodge, Southwark
  Ms. Harman
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services (1) what assurances or information were given which led to his Department's inspectorate excluding Nye Bevan lodge from its investigation into residential care in Southwark;

  (2) what information he has about the inquiries conducted by Southwark council into Nye Bevan lodge in Southwark, referred to in his answer by the then Minister of State, the hon. Member for Oxford, West and Abingdon (Mr. Patten) on 17 June 1985, Official Report, column 56.

  Mrs. Currie
  At the time the SSI inspection was agreed in July 1985 the local authority had before it a report from the acting officer in charge at Nye Bevan lodge. In the light of this report the Social Services Committee decided to set up a formal management inquiry. It was in that knowledge that the decision was made to set up an investigation by the Department's inspectorate into the authority's other homes. The report of the inspectorate was presented to Southwark Social Services Committee on 6 January 1986.

  Health Care, Tynedale
  Mr. Amos
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will pay an official visit to the Tynedale area of Northumberland to discuss the implications for medical services in Tynedale and other general health care problems in the area of the proposal to transfer £250,000 from the Tynedale health unit to Ashington.

  Mrs. Currie
  We have no immediate plans to do so. The allocation of resources to district health authorities, in the light of available resources and competing local priorities, is the responsibility of the regional health authority. If my hon. Friend has any concerns about this particular development perhaps he would write to the chairman of Northern regional health authority.

  Residential Care
  Mr. Wigley
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services when he hopes to receive the final report of the Wagner Committee on the role of residential care; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Newton
  Lady Wagner's working party on the role of residential care is expected to report early in 1988. Residential care is part of a range of community care services and the working party's report will be taken into account, along with advice from Sir Roy Griffiths following his overview of community care policy and the results of other studies, in developing our policies.

  Disabled People
  Mr. Tom Clarke
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services (1) when he next expects to meet the Royal Association for Disability and Rehabilitation and other appropriate voluntary organisations to ascertain the response of disabled persons to the non-implementation of a number of provisions in the Disabled Persons (Services, Consultation and Representation) Act 1986;

  (2) when he next expects to meet the organisation, MENCAP, to discuss the implementation of the Disabled Persons (Services, Consultation and Representation) Act 1986;

  (3) when he next expects to meet the Spastics Society to discuss early implementation of the relevant sections of the Disabled Persons (Services, Consultation and Representation) Act 1986 in respect of the right of disabled persons to appoint representatives;

  (4) when he next expects to meet the organisation MIND to discuss implementation of the sections of the Disabled Persons (Services, Consultation and Representation) Act 1986 relating to assessments of the needs of patients who are being discharged from long-stay psychiatric hospitals.

  Mr. Scott
  All the organisations to which the hon. Member specifically refers are members of the steering group of disability organisations set up to oversee implementation of the Act. As I indicated in my reply to the right hon. Member for Manchester, Wythenshawe (Mr. Morris) on 7 July at column 119, I shall be writing to the steering group shortly setting out a suggested framework for involving voluntary organisations where appropriate in future work on the implementation of the Act.

  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will list the number of disabled people who at present get high extra additions under supplementary benefit for clothing, laundry and domestic additions whilst awaiting attendance allowance and dietary additions; and what are the equivalent figures for 1984, 1985 and 1986.

  Mr. Scott
  The available information is contained in table 10.7 of the "Supplementary Benefits Statistics, Annual Enquiries", December 1984 and February 1986, copies of which are in the Library. There was no comparable enquiry in 1985.

  Mr. Tom Clarke
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services when he expects resources to become available to introduce the sections of the Disabled Persons (Services, Consultation and Representation) Act 1986 which have not yet been implemented.

  Mr. Scott
  More work is needed on the costs of the various sections of the Act and decisions on the timing of implementation will then need to be taken in the light of competing priorities for public spending.

  Mr. Tom Clarke
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services when he expects to introduce enabling orders so as to implement the sections of the Disabled Persons (Services, Consultation and Representation) Act 1986, which relate to assessments of the needs of physically disabled and mentally handicapped school-leavers.

  Mr. Scott
  I am unable to add to my reply to the hon. Member on 30 June at column 75.

  Hospitality
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services how much has been spent by his Department on official hospitality in each of the last two financial years.

  Mr. Moore
  Expenditure on the full range of official hospitality in each of the last two financial years was:

  £

  1985–86

  79,500

  1986–87

  89,500

  Hospitals (Bath)
  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services (1) what plans exist to close the geriatric ward at St. George's hospital, Semington; and if he will make a statement;

  (2) if he is satisfied that Bath district health authority have acted in accordance with the service circular in halting geriatric admissions to St. George's, Semington, and all admissions to Melksham hospital; and if he will make a statement;

  (3) why admissions to Melksham hospital were stopped on 20 July; and what alternatives are available;

  (4) what communication he has had from Bath district health authority and any interested parties concerning the future of the St. George's hospital, Semington and Melksham hospital; and if he will make a statement.

  Mrs. Currie
  On 29 June Bath district health authority issued a consultation document on a proposal to re-locate geriatric beds provided at St. George's hospital, Semington. The proposals include the development of a 14-bed geriatric unit at Melksham hospital and a consequential reduction at that hospital in the number of beds available for general practitioners from 38 to 28. The consultation period ends on 30 September.

  I understand that the Health Authority has stopped admissions of all elderly patients to St. George's, and of patients to Melksham until the number of patients is reduced to the proposed new level of beds. We have received representations from my hon. Friend the Member for Westbury and from the local community health council expressing concern that action should be taken to implement the proposals before the DHA has considered the results of consultation.

  If the community health council opposes the proposals and the regional health authority endorses them then the final decision will be referred to Ministers in the usual way.

  Hospital Beds
  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what are the total numbers of beds in (a) psychiatric wards, (b) mental hospitals and (c) community care for the current year by National Health Service region; and what are the equivalent figures for each year since 1982.

  Mrs. Currie
  The table shows the average daily number of available beds in National Health Service mental illness hospitals and units in England, by regional health authority, for the years 1982 to 1985. Figures for local authority care are not readily available; the only relevant information relates to places in residential homes for mental illness supported by local authorities in the above
  707
  years and is published in "Homes and Hostels for the Mentally Ill and the Mentally Handicapped, at 31 March. England", copies of which are in the Library.

  Table showing number of beds in Menial Illness (MI) hospitals and number of beds in Mental Illness wards in other hospitals by Regional Health Authority (RHA) for 1982–1985.

  1982

  1983

  1984

  1985

  Region (RHA)

  MI Hospitals

  MI Wards

  MI Hospitals

  MI Wards

  MI Hospitals

  MI Wards

  MI Hospitals

  MI Wards

  Northern

  4,855

  1,026

  4,875

  966

  4,802

  930

  4,681

  979

  Yorkshire

  4,442

  2,456

  4,207

  2,409

  4,087

  2,355

  3,910

  2,284

  Trent

  6,546

  687

  6,421

  749

  5,947

  940

  5,658

  1,043

  East Anglian

  1,448

  1,505

  2,489

  558

  2,425

  513

  2,248

  493

  North West Thames

  5,786

  1,675

  5,630

  1,639

  5,363

  1,566

  5,031

  1,495

  North East Thames

  4,882

  1,759

  4,767

  1,671

  4,636

  1,692

  4,376

  1,639

  South East Thames

  5,076

  1,558

  4,905

  1,553

  4,646

  1,510

  4,286

  1,601

  South West Thames

  5,460

  1,236

  5,424

  1,159

  5,684

  609

  5,593

  603

  Wessex

  2,486

  1,615

  2,451

  1,584

  2,329

  1,582

  2,179

  1,509

  Oxford

  2,018

  326

  1,952

  350

  1,880

  391

  1,874

  405

  South Western

  4,204

  1,164

  4,039

  1,075

  3,753

  1,035

  3,628

  1,029

  Mid West Midlands

  6,469

  1,632

  5,541

  2,263

  4,451

  2,983

  4,622

  2,452

  Mersey

  3,077

  3,126

  3,720

  2,205

  3,519

  2,107

  3,259

  2,095

  North Western

  2,809

  3,947

  2,881

  3,872

  2,707

  3,967

  2,527

  3,867

  England

  59,558

  23,712

  59,302

  22,053

  56,229

  22,180

  53,872

  21,494

  Special Health Authority

  —

  442

  —

  442

  —

  457

  —

  456

  Note: 1986 figures are not yet available.

  NHS (Ancillary Workers)
  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what proportion of National Health Service ancillary workers have an income below the Council of Europe poverty level.

  Mr. Newton
  No definition of a poverty level has been endorsed either by any member state of the Council of Europe or by its Governmental Committee on the European Social Charter.

  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services (1) what are the current rates of pay for ancillary workers in the National Health Service, and the equivalent for 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985 and 1986;

  (2) when he expects the new pay scales for National Health Service ancillary workers to be agreed.

  Mr. Newton
  The basic weekly rates of pay for adult staff from 1 October 1986 range from £77·13 to £93·57 for non-supervisors and £85·95 to £101·75 for supervisors. On this date the Ancillary Staffs Whitley Council introduced a revised payments and grading structure and rates for earlier years are therefore not directly comparable. However, the range for all adult ancillary staff for the previous years was as follows:

  Rates

  1982–83

  £62·83 to £83·55

  1983–84

  £65·84 to £89·06

  1984–85

  £68·98 to £92·20

  1985–86

  £72·53 to £95·75

  An offer of improved basic rates of pay from 1 April 1987 was made by the Management Side of the Council on 16 July. The trade union side is to consult its members and a response is not expected before the end of August.

  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what proportion of ancillary workers in the National Health Service are in receipt of any form of state benefit.
  708
  Mr. Newton
  I regret that the information requested is not held centrally.

  Sickness Benefit
  Mr. David Atkinson
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is his estimate of the number of those who will have their sickness benefit reduced on reaching the official retirement age; what estimate he has made of the cost of maintaining that benefit at the same rate; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Portillo
  I regret that the information is not available in the form requested. However a one per cent. sample of the 180,000 people receiving sickness benefit as at 5 April 1986 contained 8 people over pensionable age. Of these, only persons who were entitled to less than 80 per cent. of the full retirement pension would lose benefit. Due to the small numbers in the sample any estimate of the total numbers and cost of maintaining benefit at the same rate for all such people would be unreliable.

  Health Expenditure
  Mr. Galbraith
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will give the latest estimates for gross expenditure on health for England and Wales for the years 1987–88, 1988–89 and 1989–90.

  Mr. Newton
  Estimated gross expenditure on the National Health Service in England is as follows

  £ million

  1987–88

  17,184

  1988–89

  17,566

  1989–90

  18,332

  Expenditure for Wales is a matter for my right hon. Friend, the Secretary of State for Wales.
  709
  Mr. Galbraith
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will give the National Health Service per capita expenditure net of charges retained by family practitioners for each region of England.

  Mr. Newton
  I will write to the hon. Member.

  ASH (Grant)
  Mr. Michael Brown
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what grant is currently paid by his Department to Action on Smoking and Health in the current year; what grant will he paid in the succeeding year; and when he last had a meeting with the organisation's officers.

  Mrs. Currie
  The full amount that ASH will receive this year has still to be decided; it has so far received £88,500. The level of grant in aid for 1988–89 has yet to be discussed. Officials last met officers of ASH formally on 7 May. I am hoping to visit the organisation's headquarters shortly.

  Mr. Michael Brown
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what plans he has to transfer the funding of Action on Smoking and Health from public to private sources.

  Mrs. Currie
  None. However last year ASH received £36,000 from membership subscriptions and sales of literature, and estimates for 1987–88 from this source are in excess of that amount. They work closely with industry as the recent publication "Smoking Policies at Work" demonstrates.

  Health Education Authority
  Mr. Michael Brown
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether he has any plans to appoint a fund-raiser to the Health Education Authority.

  Mrs. Currie
  No. The authority is a special health authority and is part of the National Health Service.

  Mr. Michael Brown
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what proportion of the current budget of the Health Education Authority is devoted to campaigns against smoking tobacco.

  Mrs. Currie
  Approximately 10 per cent. is allocated directly to health education about smoking; additional amounts are devoted to campaigns like "Look After Your Heart" which include messages to the public about the health risks of smoking cigarettes.

  National Health Service (Voluntary Assistance)
  Mr. Amess
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement on the effectiveness of assistance given to the National Health Service by voluntary organisations.

  Mrs. Currie
  I am happy to pay tribute to the important contribution which voluntary organisations and individual volunteers make to the National Health Service. Voluntary organisations complement the work of the National Health Service, for example in providing services which help to make a patient's stay in hospital more pleasant and in raising extra funds for amenities and equipment. Voluntary organisations can also provide a useful channel for consumer input to the development of 710
  statutory services, while they increase the direct involvement of individual volunteers which strengthens the National Health Service's links with local communities. There are a growing number of voluntary and self help groups supporting patients with particular ailments, many of which receive grant aid both from DHSS and local health authorities.

  We have good reason to be grateful to voluntary organisations and to those who work in them.

  Midwives and Health Visitors (Yorkshire)
  Mr. Gregory
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services how many midwives and health visitors are employed by each of the health authorities in the Yorkshire regional health authority.

  Mrs. Currie
  The figures are shown in the table:

  National Health Service midwives and health visitors in post Yorkshire region by district health authority at 30 September 1985

  Whole time equivalents1

  Midwives2

  Health visitors3

  Hull district health authority

  98

  56

  East Yorkshire district health authority

  61

  40

  Grimsby district health authority

  78

  30

  Scunthorpe district health authority

  58

  35

  Northallerton district health authority

  22

  25

  York district health authority

  89

  54

  Scarborough district health authority

  43

  36

  Harrogate district health authority

  61

  25

  Bradford district health authority

  183

  91

  Airedale district health authority

  70

  36

  Calderdale district health authority

  89

  54

  Huddersfield district health authority

  78

  54

  Dewsbury district health authority

  90

  40

  Leeds Western (teaching) district health authority

  118

  67

  Leeds Eastern (teaching) district health authority

  156

  78

  Wakefield district health authority

  79

  31

  Pontefract district health authority

  86

  38

  Yorkshire regional health authority

  1,457

  790

  Source: DHSS Annual Census of National Health Service Non-Medical Manpower.

  1 All figures are independently rounded to the nearest whole time equivalent.

  2 Includes Agency Midwives.

  3Includes Health Visitor Fieldwork Teachers., Health Visitors (TB), Dual Triple Posts (HV/DN/MID) Bank and School Health Visitors.

  Midwives
  Mr. Gregory
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services (1) if he will make a statement on the trend in the number of student midwives;

  (2) how many qualified midwives no longer practise midwifery.

  Mr. Newton
  In recent years there has been a decline in the numbers entering midwifery training in England and information supplied by the English National Board for Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visiting shows that during the year ended March 1987 the number of entrants decreased by 6·8 per cent. to 2,759 compared with 2,960 in the previous 12 months. There has, however, been an encouraging improvement in the proportion passing their examinations from about 78 per cent. in the year ended
  711
  March 1986 to 95 per cent. in the year ended March 1987. Also information supplied by the United Kingdom Central Council for Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visiting shows that the number of newly qualified midwives registered in England continues to increase and in the year ended March 1987 3,820 registered — an increase of 47 per cent. over the previous 12 months. The work load has also changed over recent years and the average number of births per midwife in England in 1985 (the latest date for which such information is available) was 34·1 compared to 37·5 in 1981.

  AIDS
  Mr. Amess
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement on co-operation with other nations on research for treatment of AIDS.

  Mr. Newton
  In February 1987 my right hon. Friend, the then Secretary of State for Social Services, announced that the Government were granting to the Medical Research Council £14½ million over three years for a directed programme of research for the development of a vaccine for prevention and drugs for the treatment of AIDS. Following this the council is developing a programme of research to study the treatment of AIDS and HIV infection. The council has also established a therapeutic trials committee.

  The council and the DHSS maintain close contact with European research through the EC medical and health research programme which includes research on AIDS, and with the World Health Organisation which is co-ordinating world-wide action on AIDS.

  Research on antiviral treatment for AIDS and other Medical Research Council therapeutic investigations are to be co-ordinated with those undertaken in other countries.

  Mr. John Mark Taylor
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services when he proposes to launch a further phase of the AIDS publicity campaign.

  Mr. Newton
  We will be launching a new phase of the campaign to warn of the dangers of transmitting AIDS through injecting drug use in early September. This will run in parallel with the next stage of the Government's drug prevention campaign.

  Claimants (Appeals)
  Mr. Heathcoat-Amory
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services when he expects to be able to make a statement on the outcome of the discussions between his Department and interested groups about arrangements to help claimants with their appeals against local office decisions on social security claims.

  Mr. Portillo
  It is desirable that appellants to social security Tribunals should be provided with a list of local agencies who may be willing to represent them at the appeal. Local Office Managers will investigate in their areas whether a voluntary organisation is willing and able to compile such a list, which can then be issued by the DHSS local office. Where such arrangements cannot be made, local office managers will be asked to compile and issue the list.

  Disablement Services Authority
  Mr. Maples
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will announce the remaining member of the Disablement Services Authority.

  Mr. Scott
  I previously announced on 29 June 1987 at column 19 the appointment of seven further members of the Disablement Services Authority. I am delighted now to announce the appointment of Mr. Lewis Carter-Jones as a member of the Authority. I am sure that Mr. Carter-Jones, with his considerable experience of the problems associated with physical disability and his commitment to disabled people generally, will make a significant and worthwhile contribution to the authority.

  Dental Manpower
  Mr. John Mark Taylor
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether he has received the Report of the departmental review group on dental manpower; and if he will make a statement.

  Mrs. Currie
  Health Ministers have agreed the main recommendations of the Department's review group on dental manpower and copies of the report have today been deposited in the Library.

  The review group has concluded that to meet expected demand for treatment the estimated number of dentists should be increased from the present figure of around 24,700 to 30,700 by 2025; a 25 per cent. increase in the estimated number of dentists over the period.

  The group believes that it is essential to avoid an over-supply over the next 30 years. If dentists are trained at the present rate, there would be 1,700 more dentists than needed by the year 2015.

  The review group has recommended that in order to achieve the desirable level of supply of dentists it will be necessary to reduce intake to United Kingdom dental schools by 10 per cent. from 1988, but the precise implications for individual dental schools are a matter for the University Grants Committee in conjunction with the Department of Education and Science and other interested parties.

  The University Grants Committee has been conducting its own review of dental school provision concurrently with the review group and has been made aware of its findings.

  Teaching Hospitals (Health Authorities)
  Mr. John Mark Taylor
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services when he will be appointing new chairmen and members of the special health authorities for London postgraduate teaching hospitals; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Newton
  The term of office of about half the chairmen and members of the special health authorities for London postgraduate teaching hospitals expires on 31 March 1988. We are likely to require a number of new nominations and any right hon. or hon. Member wishing to recommend anyone for appointment to these authorities should write to me by 30 September 1987. Reappointments and changes will be announced in due course.

  Heating Allowance
  Mrs. Beckett
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is the value in real terms of the supplementary pension rates, including the lower rate of heating addition, for a single or married pensioner after the April 1987 uprating, compared with their value after the 1977 uprating; and what is the difference between the percentage of average earnings at the time represented by the 1977 and 1987 rates.

  Mr. Scott
  [pursuant to his reply, 7 July 1987, c. 121–22]: I regret that the figure of 147·7 in the last line of the final column of the first table (the value of the lower rate heating addition at April 1987 where the November 1977 rate = 100) is incorrect. The correct value is 119·6.

  Hospitals (Manchester)
  Mr. Alfred Morris
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will visit south Manchester to discuss with the district health authority and representatives of hospital staffs there the impending cuts in expenditure of £5·9 million in the period up to 31 March 1989.

  Mrs. Currie
  [pursuant to her reply, 20 July 1987, c. 70]: I regret that my earlier reply contained an error. The figure quoted for real terms growth in revenue expenditure in South Manchester health authority between 1982–83 and 1985–86 should read 1·6 per cent. For this year the district's initial cash allocation is £88·5 million.

  Psittacosis
  Sir Anthony Grant
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is the incidence of psittacosis in Cambridgeshire in comparison with the rest of Britain; if he will approve at the earliest opportunity the order of the South Cambridgeshire district council making psittacosis a notifiable disease under section 16 of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984; and if he will make a statement.

  Mrs. Currie
  [pursuant to her reply, 22 July 1987]: We do not collect comprehensive statistics about the incidence of this disease which would allow this comparison to be made. I understand that laboratory reports sent to the communicable disease surveillance centre in recent years were as follows:

  Number

  1984

  410

  1985

  322

  1986

  1329

  1 Provisional.

  My officials are in touch with South and East Cambridgeshire district councils which are I understand concerned about local incidence. A decision about the approval of an order to make this disease notifiable in their areas will be taken as soon as possible.

  Birth Statistics
  Mr. Wigley
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will list for the years 1985 and 1986 the estimated percentages of women delivering in (a) England and (b) England and Wales (i) whose labours were induced, (ii) whose labours were of spontaneous onset and (iii) who had elected caesarean sections.
  714
  Mrs. Currie
  [pursuant to her reply, 23 July 1987]: The available information is shown in the table. The change in the method of collection of national (England and Wales) hospital data between 1985 and 1987 means that there will be no English data analysed for 1986.

  Estimated percentages of women delivering by type of onset of labour, (a) England and (b) England and Wales — 1985

  Percentage of all deliveries

  Type of onset of labour

  England

  England and Wales1

  1. Induced

  17·5

  2950

  2. Spontaneous onset of labour

  77·6

  3. Elective caesarian section

  4·9

  5·0

  Source: England Maternity HIPE.

  1 Provisional.

  2 Aggregation reflects Wales.

  Mr. Wigley
  asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will list for the years 1985 and 1986 the estimated percentages of women delivered in (a) England and (b) England and Wales whose deliveries were (i) spontaneous, including abnormal presentation of head and breach spontaneous, (ii) instrumental including forceps, vacuum and breach extractions, (iii) caesarean section and (iv) other and unspecified means.

  Mrs. Currie
  [pursuant to her reply, 23 July 1987]: The available information is shown in the table. The change in the method of collection of national (England and Wales) hospital data between 1985 and 1987 means that there will be no English data analysed for 1986.

  Estimated percentages of women delivering by specified modes of delivery (a) England and (b) England and Wales — 1985

  Percentage of all deliveries

  Mode of delivery

  (a) England

  (b) 1England and Wales

  1. Spontaneous including abnormal presentation of head and breech spontaneous

  78·8

  78·8

  2. Instrumental including forceps, vacuum and breach extractions

  10·7

  10·6

  3. Caesarian section

  10·4

  10·6

  4. Other and unspecified

  0·1

  20·1

  Source: England Maternity HIPE

  Wales HAA

  Percentages may not add exactly to 100 because of rounding.

  1 Provisional

  2 Deliveries not coded to this category for Wales.

ENVIRONMENT

  Defective Housing
  Mr. Corbett
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what, in each of the years since the Housing Defects Act has been in force, has been the allocation of cash to each local authority for specified system-built homes, by name for (a) repurchase and (b) repair; whether he will estimate how much of the money allocated has been spent in each year; and what have been the national allocations under the Act each year.

  Mr. Waldegrave
  The Government do not allocate cash for specific purposes like this. It is for local authorities to
  715
  decide how to use the resources they have available to meet their expenditure needs, including their obligations under the Housing Defects Act.

  Total expenditure by local authorities on repurchase and repair grants in each year since the legislation came into force has been as follows:

  £ million

  Repurchase

  Repair grants

  1984–85

  4

  —

  1985–86

  60

  3

  1986–871

  62

  8

  1 Provisional.

  Individual authorities record their expenditure on these matters in their HIP 2 forms, copies of which are available in the Library.

  Severn-Trent Water Authority
  Mr. Corbett
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will list the current members of the Severn-Trent water authority, giving their occupations and working backgrounds, their remuneration and an estimate of how many hours a year, by name, each spend on this activity.

  Mr. Moynihan
  I shall answer this question shortly.

  Inner Cities
  Mr. Leighton
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what changes there have been in the Government's policies towards the inner cities since the general election.

  Table 1

  Urban programme grant payments to partnership authorities 1978–79—1987–88 in £ million

  1978–79

  1979–80

  1980–81

  1981–82

  1982–83

  1983–84

  1984–851

  1985–861

  Estimated 1986–871

  Estimated 1987–88

  Partnerships

  Birmingham

  1·8

  3·1

  5·3

  5·7

  7·7

  10·2

  9·1

  8·6

  10·0

  10·0

  Hackney

  0·5

  1·0

  1·6

  2·3

  3·3

  4·6

  4·5

  4·9

  8·0

  8·0

  Islington

  0·9

  1·7

  3·9

  4·1

  5·0

  4·3

  7·7

  5·7

  7·0

  7·0

  Lambeth

  0·9

  1·9

  3·1

  3·7

  4·2

  4·9

  4·7

  5·0

  5·0

  5·0

  Liverpool

  1·3

  3·5

  6·2

  8·6

  11·9

  14·8

  16·8

  17·4

  18·0

  18·5

  Manchester

  1·0

  1·9

  3·1

  4·3

  5·1

  5·8

  5·8

  6·1

  6·0

  6·8

  Salford

  0·7

  1·4

  1·6

  2·4

  2·7

  3·2

  2·9

  3·3

  3·5

  4·0

  Newcastle-upon-Tyne

  0·8

  1·5

  1·9

  2·1

  2·4

  3·5

  4·5

  8·5

  5·0

  5·5

  Gateshead

  0·6

  1·2

  1·7

  2·1

  2·8

  3·1

  3·8

  3·7

  5·0

  5·5

  Totals

  8·5

  17·2

  28·4

  35·3

  45·1

  54·4

  59·8

  63·2

  67·5

  70·3

  1 Final adjustments will be necessary as claims are submitted and certified by auditors.

  Table 2

  Urban programme grant payments to partnership authorities 1978–79—1987–88 at 1987–88 prices in £ million

  1978–79

  1979–80

  1980–81

  1981–82

  1982–83

  1983–84

  1984–851

  1985–861

  Estimated 1986–871

  Estimated 1987–88

  Partnerships

  Birmingham

  3·7

  5·3

  7·7

  7·6

  9·5

  12·1

  10·4

  11·6

  10·5

  10·0

  Hackney

  1·0

  1·7

  2·3

  3·1

  4·1

  5·5

  5·1

  6·4

  8·4

  8·0

  Islington

  1·8

  3·0

  5·7

  5·5

  6·2

  5·1

  8·8

  9·0

  7·3

  7·0

  Lambeth

  1·8

  3·3

  4·5

  4·9

  5·2

  5·8

  5·4

  5·7

  5·2

  5·0

  Liverpool

  2·6

  6·1

  9·1

  11·4

  14·8

  17·6

  19·1

  19·8

  18·8

  18·5

  Manchester

  2·0

  3·3

  4·5

  5·7

  6·3

  6·9

  6·6

  7·0

  6·3

  6·8

  Salford

  1·4

  2·4

  2·3

  3·2

  3·3

  3·8

  3·3

  3·5

  3·7

  4·0

  Newcastle-upon-Tyne

  1·6

  2·6

  2·8

  2·3

  3·0

  4·2

  5·1

  9·7

  5·2

  5·5

  716
  Mr. Trippier
  The Government's policies for the inner cities will give increased emphasis to encouraging enterprise and investment in those areas, to increasing employment opportunities and to improving the physical environment. Our legislative proposals on housing, on local government finance and for promoting competition will help to ensure enhanced quality, choice and accountability in housing and services for inner city residents.

  Mr. Battle
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will publish in the Official Report a table listing the total amount of money received by inner-city partnership authorities from 1979 to date, through the inner city programme, by authority and in total; and if he will list the amounts in cash and real terms.

  Mrs. Roe
  The urban programme grant payments for the partnership authorities for the years 1978–79 to 1987–88 are shown in cash and real terms in the tables. The figures for 1986–87 are estimated outturn and those for 1987–88 are estimates.

  The urban programme grant payments shown are, in general, less than the allocation for the authority for the year in question because:

  (a) grant is paid at a rate of 75 per cent. on local authority expenditure;

  (b) some grant claims are submitted after the relevant financial year; and

  (c) many capital projects are financed through loans, and the grant payment in that case is towards loan charges over a maximum period of 40 years.

  717

  1978–79

  1979–80

  1980–81

  1981–82

  1982–83

  1983–84

  1984–851

  1985–861

  Estimated 1986–871

  Estimated 1987–88

  Gateshead

  1·2

  2·0

  2·5

  2·8

  3·5

  3·7

  4·3

  4·8

  5·2

  5·5

  Totals

  17·1

  29·7

  41·4

  47·0

  55·9

  64·7

  68·1

  77·5

  70·6

  70·3

  1 Final adjustments will be necessary as claims are submitted and certified by auditors.

  Mr. Battle
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will list in the Official Report, the total amount of rate support grant paid to inner-city partnership authorities from 1979 to date, by authority and in total.

  £ million

  1979–80

  1980–81

  1981–82

  1982–83

  1983–84

  1984–85

  1985–86

  1986–87

  1987–88

  Hackney

  43·387

  49·775

  45·204

  44·665

  46·117

  44·742

  46·652

  75·213

  68·883

  Lambeth

  55·368

  60·596

  55·966

  58·969

  53·131

  49·555

  50·690

  51·228

  77·618

  Islington

  40·604

  46·167

  31·091

  32·043

  34·727

  3·877

  25·029

  45·421

  56·952

  Birmingham

  175·149

  201·981

  176·660

  170·825

  190·475

  196·008

  193·851

  19·539

  188·709

  Liverpool

  116·194

  141·059

  120·518

  117·256

  123·571

  118·674

  124·156

  135·450

  135·823

  Manchester

  112·237

  131·579

  115·140

  99·252

  101·490

  95·963

  97·143

  99·996

  103·584

  Salford

  55·318

  64·528

  59·426

  56·527

  57·447

  57·126

  53·616

  57·738

  60·732

  Newcastle

  52·541

  62·427

  49·395

  38·640

  39·589

  35·634

  40·530

  20·469

  42·610

  Gateshead

  43·613

  52·957

  44·171

  42·696

  44·409

  44·435

  44·333

  50·486

  53·010

  Total

  694·411

  811·069

  697·571

  660·873

  690·956

  646·014

  676·000

  555·540

  787·941

  Notes:

  (1) For 1979–80 and 1980–81, rate support grant comprised needs and resources elements and domestic rate relief grant, and was not paid on a basis comparable with later years.

  (2) From 1981–82 onwards, rate support grant comprises block grant and domestic rate relief grant. In 1981–82 Metropolitan police and GLC entitlements were paid to the rating authorities in their areas. In 1982–83 only the Metropolitan police entitlement was paid in this way.

  (3) The rate support grant figures for the years 1979–80 to 1982–83 are final entitlements. The domestic rate relief grant elements for 1983–84, 1984–85 and 1985–86 are also final entitlements; those for 1986–87 and 1987–88 are first estimates. The block grant elements for 1983–84, 1984–85 and 1985–86 are entitlements after holdback based upon provisional outturn; those for 1986–87 are entitlements based on revised budgets, and those for 1987–88 are entitlements based on budgets.

  All figures are in cash terms.

  Housing Association Properties (Rents)
  Mr. Leighton
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is his Department's estimate of the rent which would be required for a private house costing a housing association £50,000 with 30 per cent. subsidy.

  Mr. Waldegrave
  I will write to the hon. Member.

  Local Authority Swimming Pools
  Mr. Squire
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what statistical or other evidence the Government have as to the number of local authority swimming pools which have been (a) closed and (b) opened over the past 10 years.

  Mr. Chope
  In 1977 a total of 894 public indoor pools and 229 public outdoor pools were operating in England. The respective figures for 1984 are estimated to be 950 and 167. Comprehensive information for the period 1984 to 1987 is not yet available, but in 1984 43 new indoor pools were planned for construction by 1987. A number of poorer quality pools have been closed in recent years but the closure rate is now declining.

  Mr. Squire
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what information he has as to how many local authority swimming pools in England and Wales can be classified as free form leisure pools and as to how many local authority traditional pools now include leisure equipment.
  718
  Mr. Trippier
  The figures requested are provided in the table:

  Mr. Moynihan
  It is estimated that there are 45 local authority free form leisure pools in England and Wales. Information on the number of local authority traditional pools containing leisure equipment is not available.

  PSA (Occupancy Audit)
  Sir Eldon Griffiths
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he received his officials' report on the occupancy audit of the Property Services Agency 's eastern region area office at Newmarket; if he will make known its conclusions to the House; if, before authorising action to be taken on these and other recommendations relating to the government offices in Newmarket and Cambridge, he will evaluate the benefits of transferring still more functions out of congested high price areas into more easily accessible and less expensive accommodation; and if he will make it his policy to release for the private development of houses, high-tech business premises and university research facilities all or most of the under-utilised land owns in the Eastern region.

  Mr. Chope
  Occupancy audits are independent checks on the efficient use of accommodation. The audit of PSA's eastern region area office, Newmarket, was carried out in April-May 1987. My officials' are considering its conclusions which relate only to internal office moves to improve space utilisation.
  719
  My ministerial colleagues and I will continue to look critically at the Government estate in the eastern region, as elsewhere, to ensure that Departments retain no more land than is necessary to carry out their functions.

  Government Offices (Suffolk and Cambridgeshire)
  Sir Eldon Griffiths
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what steps he is taking to help provide land for private housing and industrial development in the Suffolk and Cambridgeshire area by moving single storey Government offices out of prime city centre sites into less expensive and more efficient accommodation in smaller market towns.

  Mr. Chope
  The use of any such sites by Government Departments is reviewed regularly.

  Rating Reform
  Mr. Malcolm Bruce
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will set out the estimated costs of (a) the collection of the uniform business rate and (b) the total rate reform proposals including community charge.

  Mr. Howard
  There is no reason to assume that the cost of collecting the uniform business rate will be different from the cost of collecting non-domestic rates at present. Our preliminary estimate is that the cost per person liable of collecting the community charge may be broadly similar to the cost per person liable of collecting domestic rates.

  Mr. Malcolm Bruce
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will set out the estimated costs of collection for the community charge in terms of the cost per £ sterling of collection; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Howard
  Our preliminary estimate is that the cost per person liable of collecting the community charge may be broadly similar to the cost per person liable of collecting domestic rates. The cost to an individual local authority will largely depend on how far they are successful in reducing unit costs.

  Sir Barney Hayhoe
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will publish tables indicating the range of domestic rates for indicative bands of rateable values for each local authority together with the estimated amount of the comparable community charge.

  Mr. Howard
  I have today placed in the Library information on rate bills in each authority of properties with rateable values of the national average—£200—half the national average and double the national average.

  The amount of the community charge payable by those living in houses of those descriptions will depend on the numbers of adults living there.

  Sir Barney Hayhoe
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will make it his policy to exclude the use of electoral rolls as evidence for liability to pay community charge in the legislation proposals for the reform of local government finance which he will be bringing before the House.

  Mr. Howard
  The community charges register in each area will be maintained separately from the electoral roll and will not have the same coverage. The Government do not, however, propose to deny community charge registration officers access to the electoral roll, which is a public document.
  720
  Sir Barney Hayhoe
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many of those now estimated not to be paying domestic rates are estimated to be the spouses of, or cohabiting with, ratepayers.

  Mr. Howard
  Based on data contained in the family expenditure survey, I estimate there are about 9½ million households with two adults where a rate is presently paid in whole or in part.

  Sir Barney Hayhoe
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what percentage of those over 18 years of age, living in England and Wales, have been assumed not to pay the community charge in detailed comparison between domestic rates and community charge payments issued by the Government because (a) of exemption and (b) of failure to register.

  Mr. Howard
  The figures published on 29 June in column 44, are based on full estimates of adult population in each area. They do not take account of any exemptions from the personal community charge, nor of failure to pay. Nor, however, do they take account of income from the standard community charge on second homes and empty properties.

  Sir Barney Hayhoe
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what assumptions have been made about revaluation of non-domestic rateable values in estimating the figures for the proposed unified business rate published by the Government; and what is the estimated differences of such revaluation compared with the existing position, by whatever geographical breakdown is available.

  Mr. Howard
  The exemplifications placed in the Library in response to a question from the hon. Member for Copeland (Dr. Cunningham) on 29 June—column 44—made no assumptions about the effect of the non-domestic revaluation in 1990. In broad terms, I expect that revaluation will result in relative increases in rateable value for prime shops and reductions for factories, and in relative increases in the south of England and reductions in the north and midlands.

  Sir Barney Hayhoe
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what changes to the community charge proposal have been announced by the Government (a) following consultations and before the dissolution of the last Parliament and (b) since then.

  Mr. Howard
  Last December my right hon. Friend placed in the Library the document entitled "Paying for Local Government: The Community Charge", which set out the Government's detailed proposals for the new system in England and Wales. We subsequently made it clear—before the election—that there will be community charge rebates for those on low incomes, and that there will be community charge exemptions in England and Wales similar to those provided for in the Abolition of Domestic Rates, Etc. Scotland Act 1987.

  Mr. Simon Hughes
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is his estimate as to the number of people who will be taken to court per year due to nonpayment of the proposed community charges.

  Mr. Howard
  The community charge will be paid by a much larger number of people than the number who pay domestic rates. However, we do not anticipate a proportionate increase in the number of court cases for non-payment. We have published proposals for greater
  721
  use of reminders and for payment by instalments to become the norm. These will help to reduce the incidence of arrears.

  Mr. Cyril Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if Her Majesty's Government have made any estimates as to the proportion of single adults on unemployment benefit who will receive community charge rebates.

  Mr. Howard
  No such estimates have been made since the Green Paper "Paying for Local Government" — Cmnd. 9714—was published in January 1986. Eligibility for community charge rebates will depend on the details of the rebate scheme, the level of the community charge and the income of the unemployed person concerned. All these matters remain to be determined.

  Mr. Cyril Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether the up-to-date community charge register will be made available to the public in computer-readable form; and whether local authorities will be empowered to sell this to non-political commercial organisations.

  Mr. Howard
  The Government have proposed that each individual will have the right to see all the information held about him or her on the community charge register; and that the general public will have the right to inspect only that part of the register that consists of a list of addresses and the names of those registered there.

  We are considering whether registration officers should be authorised to sell copies of the part of the register that is available for public inspection.

  Mr. Cyril Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how long the Government estimate it will take, on average, for new non-householder residents to register with their local authority for community charge.

  Mr. Howard
  Registration for the community charge in England will begin several months before 1 April 1990. Thereafter, all those liable for the community charge will be under a duty to ensure that they are registered within one month of becoming liable.

  Mr. Simon Hughes
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what would be the total community charge payable per resident in all boroughs and districts in England in 1987–88, assuming the full replacement of domestic rates by community charge, the implementation of the proposals in "Paying for Local Government" (Cmnd. 9714), and the payment of full community charge liability by the following percentages of those eligible (a) 95 per cent., (b) 90 per cent., (c) 85 per cent. and (d) 81 per cent., both with and without a safety net.

  Mr. Howard
  The illustrative community charge figures published on 29 June in column 44 are based on full estimates of adult population in each area. A shortfall in the number of people paying the community charge in any area would produce a proportionate increase in the illustrative personal community charge for that area.

  Mr. Simon Hughes
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is the Government's estimate as to the percentage of those eligible for the community charge who would both appear on the community charge register and pay the charge.
  722
  Mr. Howard
  The Government have made no such estimate. Local authorities will have every reason to ensure that those who are liable for the community charge are registered and pay.

  Dr. Cunningham
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if, based on the exemplifications which he placed in the Library on 29 June, he will publish further exemplifications comparing for each local authority and class of authority in England, and for local authorities in England as a whole, the implied effects on local taxes of changes in local authority expenditure under the present system and under the proposed system of a community charge and a national non-domestic rate, set out as follows: (a) the implied change in domestic rates per household if the expenditure assumptions used in the previous exemplifications were 1 per cent. higher, (b) the implied change in community charge per household, on the same basis as above and (c) a comparison of the information under (a) and (b) above expressed in terms of absolute amounts and of percentages.

  Mr. Ridley
  I will write to the hon. Member.

  Mr. Fearn
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many central and local government staff he estimates will be needed to administer the proposals in "Paying for Local Government" for a community charge and a unified business rate; and how many people are now needed to administer domestic and non-domestic rates.

  Mr. Howard
  It is estimated from the CIPFA "Rate Collection Statistics 1985–86 Actuals" that there are around 8,000 full-time equivalent staff employed on rate collection in local authorities in England and Wales. The Inland Revenue valuation office employs around 4,000 full-time equivalent staff on domestic and non-domestic rating.

  An estimate of the number of staff required to administer the community charge and the national non-domestic rate will be provided at the appropriate time. The eventual outcome will depend on the extent of the application of new technology and the savings which can be achieved in the valuation office when domestic rates are abolished.

  Mr. Gordon Brown
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if any studies have been carried out within his Department on likely registration rates or collection rates for the proposed poll tax; and if he will place any such studies in the Library.

  Mr. Howard
  I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave him on 13 July, at column 387.

  Ms. Quin
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will state, following his consultations with local authorities on the introduction of the poll tax, how many local authorities in England and Wales are in favour of the proposed poll tax; and if he will list those local authorities in favour.

  Mr. Howard
  Twenty-seven principal councils and 14 town and parish councils in England expressed support for the community charge. I do not have the permission of those who submitted comments to publish their views. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales is responsible for the consultation arrangements in Wales.
  723
  Ms. Quin
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment, further to the answer of 13 July, Official Report, column 528, what studies the Government have undertaken, in addition to the analyses of the impact on house prices of the abolition of domestic rates, on the effect of house prices of the introduction of the proposed poll tax.

  Mr. Howard
  Annex E of the Green Paper "Paying for Local Government" — Cmnd. 9714 — addresses both issues. No further studies have been commissioned.

  Ms. Quin asked the Secretary of State for the Environment, further to his answer of 16 July, Official Report, column 578, of the 454 local authorities and associated bodies in England and Wales which responded to the Green Paper, "Paying for Local Government," how many were in favour of the poll tax proposed by the Government; and what proportion of the total number of local authorities in England and Wales the number in favour represents.

  Mr. Howard
  Twenty-seven principal councils in England, just over 6 per cent. of the total number, expressed support for the community charge, as did 14 town and parish councils and three local authority associated bodies in England. But overall, those who supported the abolition of domestic rates outnumbered those who supported their retention by 2 to 1.

  My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales is responsible for the consultation arrangements in Wales.

  Local Government Elections (Statistics)
  Sir Barney Hayhoe
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will publish any statistical or survey evidence available to him on any correlation between the incidence of paying local taxes and voting at local elections in the United Kingdom or in any other country.

  Mr. Howard
  I am not aware of any research into this topic.

  Rates (Non-payment)
  Mr. Simon Hughes
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what estimate he has as to in how many cases an authority for deduction for earning has been issued in respect of non-payment of rates in the last year for which figures are available.

  Mr. Howard
  The option of an attachment of earnings order is not available to the courts in cases of unpaid rates. It is proposed to provide such a power in relation to the community charge.

  Mr. Simon Hughes
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what estimate he has as to how many people are currently in prison due to non-payment of rates; and at what annual cost.

  Mr. Howard
  It is estimated that on 31 May 1987, 11 people—all males—were being held in prison for wilful refusal or culpable neglect to pay rates. Estimates of annual costs per inmate are not available for specific types of prisoner, but information on average weekly costs for establishments was published in the "Report on the Work of the Prison Department 1985/86", Cm 11, Appendix 3, tables E, F.

  Charities (Rate Relief)
  Mr. Cyril Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is the total annual value of rate relief accruing to registered charities in England.

  Mr. Howard
  The total value of mandatory rate relief accruing to registered charities in England in respect of both domestic and non-domestic properties is estimated to be £103 million in 1987–88. Information on discretionary rate relief accruing to them is not collected centrally.

  London Docklands
  Mr. Spearing
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will state his estimate of the cost of land acquisition for each of the sections of new road planned in the London docklands as tabulated in his written answer of 3 July, Official Report, column 191.

  Mr. Trippier
  The cost of land acquisition for these road improvements will depend upon the outcome of detailed negotiations with landowners and any necessary compulsory purchase procedures.

  Firework Displays
  Sir Barney Hayhoe
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will arrange for inquiries to be made by his officials into the noise and nuisance caused by public firework displays at times other than at the traditional period around 5 November.

  Mr. Moynihan
  Noise nuisance from firework displays is essentially a local matter. Local authorities can make an order to prevent the occurrence or recurrence of noise amounting to a nuisance, and individuals bothered in their homes by noise can take action in the magistrates' court, under the provisions of the Control of Pollution Act 1974. I have no reason to believe these powers are inadequate in relation to noise from firework displays.

  UK 2000
  Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what are the terms of reference of UK 2000; what tasks it is currently handling; and what is the precise role of Mr. Richard Branson.

  Mr. Trippier
  The objectives of UK 2000 are:

  (a) to increase the quality and quantity of practical improvements to the urban and rural environment;

  (b) to offer challenging and worthwhile work experience for community programme participants and volunteers;

  (c) to establish new enterprises based on the natural or man-made environment.

  Work is focused on specific themes. Currently these are:
  greening the cities, by bringing neglected land into use as parks, walkways, wildlife reserves, or city farms;
  conserving and restoring industrial heritage, with work on canals, railways and mills;
  tackling litter, especially on beaches and roadsides;
  helping tourists by improving information and facilities;
  making more of nature: improving lesser known and lesser cared for woodlands, ponds, paths and other habitats;
  recycling rubbish, to encourage the conservation of natural resources.

  At present UK 2000 has 214 projects under way involving 3,900 Community Programme workers and 7,000 volunteers.
  725
  Mr. Richard Branson is the chairman of the board set up to direct UK 2000.

  Rent Arrears (Leeds)
  Mr. Battle
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many of the tenants of Leeds city council are behind with their rent payments; and what proportion of the total number of tenants they represent.

  Mr. Waldegrave
  The available information is the number of housing tenants in arrears with payments for rent, rates and other charges and appears on page 10 of the Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy's report "Arrears Statistics September 1986", a copy of which is in the Library.

  Tenancies
  Mr. McCrindle
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he has any plans to allow existing lettings to be converted into tradeable fixed-term leases for a fixed term or for the life of the existing tenant; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Waldegrave
  No. I do not think such a proposal would be attractive to landlords, or useable by many tenants. We propose instead to tackle the very real problems of the private rented sector by deregulating new let tings.

  Ministerial Cars (CS Gas)
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether any cars currently allocated for ministerial use carry supplies of CS gas.

  Mr. Chope
  No.

  Nuclear Installations (Discharges)
  Mr. Wallace
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he intends to review the system for reporting unplanned discharges from nuclear installations, in the light of the agreement on that subject made by member states at the recent meeting of the Paris Commission for the prevention of marine pollution.

  Mr. Moynihan
  No. Members of the commission will be reviewing existing notification arrangements at the next meeting of the technical working group.

  Birtenshaw Farm, Bolton
  Mr. Thurnham
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many representations he has received about the planning appeal decision at Birtenshaw farm, Bolton; how many supported the decision; and if he will list these representations by categories to include businesses, local residents and public authorities.

  Mr. Waldegrave
  Representations about the appeal decision, or about the proposal to remove the covenant on the land, have been made by 333 local residents. They have also been made by the Birtenshaw Land Appeal Group, students at two local schools, the local Labour party and the local Civic Trust. None has been made by businesses or by public authorities, nor have any been made in support of the appeal decision.

  Mersey Basin Programme
  Mr. Andrew F. Bennett
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how much money Her Majesty's Government expect Tameside metropolitan borough to receive from European funding for the Mersey basin programme over each year of the programme.

  Mr. Trippier
  The amount received by Tameside will depend on the value of eligible council projects for each year of the programme; the priority which it accords to those projects within its own capital investment programme; and the priorities of the Mersey basin campaign overall.

  Mr. Andrew F. Bennett
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what proportion of money spent by Her Majesty's Government and by the European Community on the Mersey basin programme has been spent in the upper parts of the basin at Oldham, Tameside, Stockport and Manchester; and what amount in the lower part of the basin.

  Mr. Trippier
  Of the £65·6 million European regional development fund grants awarded under phase 1 of the Mersey basin programme, £4·1 million went to Oldham, £5·6 million to Tameside and £2·5 million to Manchester—18·6 per cent. in all. No grant went to Stockport, and the remaining £53·4 million went to the other parts of the programme area. Government expenditure in support of the Mersey basin campaign has been incurred under a wide range of powers and programmes but no record has been kept of its total extent.

  Mr. Burt
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether, in view of the concern expressed by the textile districts of Greater Manchester over the implementation of phase 1 of the Mersey basin programme, he is satisfied that there has been adequate formal consultation with local authorities on the full programme of phase 2 prior to its submission to the European Economic Community.

  Mr. Trippier
  Yes — through the three formally-constituted local authority-led project groups of the Mersey basin campaign. The interests of the textile districts of Greater Manchester have been well catered for in the EC submission.

  Local Government
  Dr. Cunningham
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will publish, in relation to the exemplifications he placed in the Library on 29 June, the following assumptions for each local authority and class of local authority in England, and for local authorities in England as a whole: (a) the amount of "needs" grant, (b) the amount of "standard" grant, (c) the adult population, (d) the amount of non-domestic rateable value, (e) the amount received from the national non-domestic rate, (f) the amount of grant-related expenditure, (g) the amount of expenditure and (h) the amount of "minimum needs threshold" used to calculate the amount of "needs" grant.

  Mr. Ridley
  I have today placed in the Library the figures for expenditure, grant-related expenditure, grant., non-domestic rate income, non-domestic ratea ble value and adult population which underlay the illustrative community charge figures placed in the Library on 29 June. The figure for grant has been calculated by
  727
  deducting from the grant-related expenditure figure the sum of £178 per adult which represents the community charge required to finance spending at the GRE level. No separate calculations of needs and standard grant were made. Nor was there any need to estimate minimum needs thresholds.

  Resource Recovery and Power Generation Plant (Liverpool)
  Mr. Wareing
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what representations he has received about the erection of a resource recovery and power generation plant at Stonebridge lane, Gillmoss in Liverpool; what discussions he has had with representatives of Liverpool city council about the matter; and if he will now reconsider his decision not to establish a full public inquiry.

  Mr. Moynihan
  Seventy-eight representations have been received about the proposed plant. Her Majesty's district inspector of pollution has discussed the general principles of the design with Liverpool city council, and further detailed examination and discussions will be necessary before he would be in a position to register the plant for air pollution control purposes. My right hon. Friend still sees no justification for holding a full public inquiry into these proposals.

  Bradford Investments plc
  Mr. Pike
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will set up an inquiry into the operation of rental purchase schemes by Bradford Investments plc.

  Mr. Waldegrave
  I will write to the hon. Member.

  London Docklands Development Corporation
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how much was spent by the London Docklands Development Corporation on hospitality, public relations and personal expenses in the last financial year.

  Mr. Trippier
  I will write to the hon. Member.

  Whale and Turtle Products
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what whale or turtle products have been purchased by this Department in each of the last two years.

  Mr. Chope
  None.

  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will list those individuals and organisations who have taken up import permits for whale and turtle products in each of the past two years.

  Mr. Moynihan
  I shall write to the hon. Member shortly.

  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will seek powers to ban imports of (a) whale products and (b) turtle products; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Moynihan
  I will write to the hon. Member shortly.

  Homelessness
  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what discussions he has had with the London Tourist Board concerning the use of London hotels by homeless people.

  Mr. Waldegrave
  My officials have discussed this matter with representatives of the London Tourist Board and other Government Departments concerned. Our code of guidance on part III of the Housing Act 1985 discourages authorities from using hotels as interim accommodation for homeless households except as a last resort and suggests various preferable alternatives such as empty council dwellings awaiting repair or a short term lease of empty private sector property. Our recent initiatives through Estate Action and through the Housing Corporation's mixed-funding programme have given practical assistance. Tourism matters of course fall within the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment.

  Inner London Education Authority
  Mr. Corbyn
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is the estimated cost of the Inner London education authority moving out of County hall and relocating in alternative premises.

  Mr. Chope
  The acquisition of alternative premises is a matter for ILEA. The Government are currently considering requests from ILEA for assistance.

  Enterprise Zones
  Mr. David Nicholson
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what periodic review is made by the Government of the effectiveness of enterprise zones; what response the Government have made to recent business or academic studies of this subject; what effect enterprise zones have had on business in the periphery of the zones but outside their boundaries; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Trippier
  The progress of the enterprise zones experiment has been monitored since it began. In 1986, halfway through the 10-year period of designation of the earliest zones, we commissioned an evaluation study of the experiment and have recently received our consultants' report. We are considering future policy in the light of that report.

  Funfairs
  Mr. Harry Greenway
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make it his policy to call in all planning applications for the permanent establishment of funfairs; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Waldegrave
  No. It is my right hon. Friend's policy to be very selective about calling in planning applications for his decision; applications will in general be called in only if planning issues of more than local importance are involved.

  Mrs. R. Batts
  Mr. Gerald Bowden
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what information he has as to the reason for

  729
  the delay in the purchase by Mrs. R. Batts of her council home at 26 Hilverson crescent, London SE 22; and when he expects Southwark council to complete the transaction.

  Mr. Waldegrave
  I understand that this case was delayed while Southwark council considered amendments to its standard form of lease to conform with the requirements of the Housing and Planning Act 1986. The lease has now been reprinted and Mrs. Batts should shortly receive the legal documentation from the council necessary to complete the purchase.

  National Trust
  Mr. Michael J. Martin
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what funds he has made available to the National Trust for the upkeep of historical buildings during the years 1983–84, 1984–85 and 1985–86.

  Mr. Moynihan
  The National Trust has received grants from the Department—prior to 1 April 1984—from the Historic Buildings and Monuments Commission and from the National Heritage Memorial Fund. The figures are summarised in the table below, which covers trust properties in England.

  The major part of the NHMF payments relates to two major country houses — Calke Abbey, which the Government accepted in lieu of tax and allocated to the care of the trust, with endowment and repair funds channelled through the NHMF; and Belton House.

  Some NHMF grants relate to gardens or land; a detailed breakdown is not possible in the time available.

  £000s

  1983–84

  1984–85

  1985–86

  Department of the Environment

  682

  —

  —

  Historic Buildings and Monuments Commission

  999

  798

  National Heritage Memorial Fund:

  Calke Abbey and Belton House

  6,625

  5,220

  1,620

  Other grants

  2,100

  470

  1

  Lead Pipes
  Mr. Chris Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how much money has been spent by local authorities since 1979 on programmes of lead pipe removal.

  Mr. Moynihan
  This information is not held by the Department.

  Water
  Mr. Chris Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will give details of all outstanding complaints against the United Kingdom Government by the Commission of the European Community under directions relating to the quality of drinking water and bathing water in the United Kingdom.

  Mr. Moynihan
  I refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mr. Griffiths) on 20 July, in column 104, concerning bathing waters. We have received representations from the Commission concerning one aspect of drinking water in one supply area, and will be responding shortly.
  730
  Mr. Chris Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many of the regional water authorities are conducting biological analysis or designated bathing beaches to detect the presence of human enteric viruses in line with the provisions of the European Community bathing water directive.

  Mr. Moynihan
  During 1986, the last year for which results are available, four water authorities measured enteroviruses in bathing waters.

  Mr. Chris Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he proposes, in legislation for water privatisation, to ensure that the National Rivers Authority should have responsibility for the quality of public drinking water supplies in the United Kingdom.

  Mr. Moynihan
  No. It will be for the privatised water authorities, and the existing private sector statutory water companies, to maintain the quality of public water supplies in accordance with EC and other statutory requirements. It will remain the role of local authorities to ensure that water supplies are sufficient, and wholesome. The Secretary of State will continue to have responsibility for checking compliance with EC requirement.

  Mr. Chris Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is his latest estimate of the cost of household water metering throughout the United Kingdom.

  Mr. Moynihan
  The Watts committee, which reported in August 1985 — Joint Study of Water Metering: Report of the Steering Group — concluded that the average annualised cost of metering per customer including meter provision, installation, and maintenance and additional meter reading and billing costs, would be of the order of £4·75 per year; that for the average consumer the economic benefits of 'traditional' metering would be of the same order of magnitude as the costs; and that recent developments, including electronic notebooks and doorstep billing, could remove some of the costs and problems of reading 'traditional' meters. They recommended controlled comprehensive experiments with domestic metering which, amongst other things, would test present cost assumptions.

  The Public Utility Transfers and Water Charges Bill contains provisions which would enable water undertakers to carry out metering trials, and proposals for a co-ordinated programme of trials are being formulated by the water industry.

  Mr. Chris Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will publish the results of surveys of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in public drinking water supplies in the 10 regional water authority areas; and if he will comment on the public health significance of those surveys.

  Mr. Moynihan
  I will write to the hon. Member.

  Mr. Chris Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what are the current levels of bromate in public water supplies in each of the 10 regional water authority areas; and what is his estimate of the total quantity of organo-bromine biodes being biodegraded during sewage treatment to inorganic bromide, discharged to rivers, abstracted for drinking water and oxidised to bromate during disinfection at water treatment works.

  Mr. Moynihan
  I will write to the hon. Member.

  Retail Developments
  Mr. Aspinwall
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will list those applications for out-of-town retail developments of (a) below 250,000 sq ft and (b) above 250,000 sq ft currently before his Department.

  Mr. Waldegrave
  The information requested is being prepared and I will write to my hon. Friend as soon as possible.

  Mr. Aspinwall
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment (1) if he is considering issuing new guidelines to local authorities concerning large retail developments proposed in inner-city areas; and if he will make a statement;

  (2) if he will set out his Department's guidelines concerning proposed retail developments which could affect the vitality and viability of town or city centres as a whole; and if he will make a statement.

  Mr. Waldegrave
  Policy on major retail development is set out in the circular issued jointly by my Department and the Welsh Office last December—DOE circular 21/86, Welsh Office 58/86. That circular includes the text of a statement made on 5 July 1985 by the then Secretary of State for the Environment about the possible impact of new retail developments on the vitality and viability of existing town centres.

  Mr. Aspinwall
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he intends to undertake studies into the employment displacement effects caused by the development of large retail outlets in out-of-town areas.

  Mr. Waldegrave
  The Department does not fund any such studies at present, but is aware of other research in progress on this subject—for example, the study funded by the Economic and Social Research Council into the impact of the Gateshead Metro centre on Tyneside.

  Council House Sales
  Mrs. Virginia Bottomley
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will update the table giving information on sales of dwellings by each local authority in England referred to in the answer to the hon. Member for Woolwich (Mr. Cartwright) on 15 May, Official Report, column 395.

  Mr. Waldegrave
  I have today placed in the Library the latest version of table 2 giving information reported by each local authority in England on the progress on council house sales up to the end of March 1987.

  Consultancy Costs
  Mr. Tim Smith
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is the estimated expenditure of his Department in the current year on management and computer consultancy.

  Mr. Ridley
  Provision in DOE(C) for management and computer consultancies during 1987–88 is £5·2 million, and for PSA £8·6 million.

  Spectrum Arena
  Mr. Hoyle
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when the consultations between Warrington and Runcorn development corporation and Warrington borough council over the Spectrum arena will take place.
  732
  Mrs. Roe
  The chairman of the corporation wrote to the leader of the council on 14 July 1987.

  Mr. Hoyle
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will give the date when previous discussions took place on the Spectrum arena between Warrington borough council and Warrington and Runcorn development corporation.

  Mrs. Roe
  On 29 April 1986.

  Medieval Wall Paintings
  Mr. Cormack
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will discuss the results of the survey of English medieval wall paintings, currently being carried out by the Courtauld Institute and the Royal Commission on Historic Monuments, with the chairman of the Historic Buildings and Monuments Commission with a view to making special funds available for the conservation of these paintings.

  Mr. Moynihan
  I will write to my hon. Friend.

  Assured Tenancies
  Mr. Tony Banks
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment, pursuant to his reply of 7 July, Official Report, column 140, to the hon. Member for Brent, South (Mr. Boateng) if section 11 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 applies to assured tenancies when the tenancy is renewed.

  Mrs. Roe
  No. But we propose to extend section 11 so as to apply to assured tenancies not only when first granted but also on renewal.

  Canary Wharf
  Ms. Gordon
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what has been the total amount of public funds (a) committed and (b) spent to date on or in connection with the proposed Canary wharf development, broken down by category of expenditure.

  Mr. Trippier
  [pursuant to his answer, 10 July, c. 296]: The information requested is as follows:

  £ thousand cash

  (a) Committed on, or in connection with, the Canary wharf development

  (b) Spent to 30 June 1987

  Land acquisition

  6,466

  —

  Roads

  10,440

  —

  Other infrastructure

  69

  —

  Relocations

  625

  —

  Administration (Fees etc) (net)

  1,570

  420

  City extension of Docklands light railway

  170,000

  —

  Total

  89,170

  420

  1 Present estimate of London Regional Transport's share of the project.

  Housing Statistics
  Mr. Wigley
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment (1) how many of the houses designated as

  733
  unfit in Wales, Scotland, England and each of English regions are lived in by pensioner households; and what proportion of those living in such housing pensioners represent

  (2) how many pensioners in Scotland, Wales, England and each of the English regions live in housing which has been designated as unfit; and in each case, what proportion of the total number of pensioners in each area that number represents.

  Northern, Yorkshire and Humberside and North-East

  South-East including Greater London

  East Midlands, West Midlands, East Anglia, South-West

  England

  Number of pensioner1 households in unfit dwellings

  131,000

  110,000

  132,000

  373,000

  Pensioner households in unfit dwellings as a percentage of all pensioner households

  9

  8

  9

  8

  Number of pensioners in unfit dwellings

  404,000

  361,000

  314,000

  1,079,000

  Pensioners in unfit dwellings as a percentage of all pensioners

  7

  5

  5

  6

  1 Pensioner households are those where head of household is of pensionable age.

  The figures for Scotland and Wales are the responsibility of the Secretaries of State for Scotland and Wales respectively.

  Mr. Corbett
  asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will list the current members of the Severn-Trent water authority, giving their occupations and working backgrounds, their remuneration and an estimate of how many hours a year, by name, each spends on this activity.

  Mr. Trippier
  [pursuant to his reply, 23 July 1987]: Information about current members and members' remuneration is to be found on pages 29 and 48 of the
  734
  Mr. Waldegrave
  [pursuant to his reply, 20 July 1987, c. 102]: The most recent source of information on the numbers of pensioners and pensioner households in unfit housing in England is the 1981 English house condition survey. Figures are available only for three broad regions. These are as follows:

  report and accounts of Severn-Trent water for 1986–87 which was presented to Parliament on 15 July 1987. Time spent by current members on authority business is as follows:

  Number of members

  3 to 4 days per month

  3

  4 days per month

  3

  4 to 5 days per month

  3

  5 days per month

  1

  4 days per week

  1

  Full-time

  3