Sitting of 24 November 1943

Preamble
[Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair]
The Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod (Air Chief Marshal Sir William Mitchell, K.C.B., C.B.E., D.S.O., M.C., A.F.C.) was announced.
Addressing Mr. SPEAKER, the GENTLEMAN USHER said, The King commands this Honourable House to attend His Majesty immediately in the House of Peers.
The House went, and, having returned,
The Sitting was suspended, and then resumed.

SESSIONAL ORDERS

  ELECTIONS
  Ordered, That all Members, who are returned for two or more places in any part of the United Kingdom do make their Election for which of the places they will serve, within one week after it shall appear that there is no question upon the Return for that place; and if any thing shall come in question touching the Return or Election of any Member, he is to withdraw during the time the matter is in debate; and that all Members returned upon double Returns do withdraw till their Returns are determined.
  Resolved, That no Peer of the Realm, except such Peers of Ireland as shall for the time being be actually elected, and shall not have declined to serve, for any
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  county, city, or borough of Great Britain, hath any right to give his vote in the Election of any Member to serve in Parliament.
  Resolved, That if it shall appear that any person hath been elected or returned a Member of this House, or endeavoured so to be, by Bribery, or any other corrupt practices, this House will proceed with the utmost severity against all such persons as shall have been wilfully concerned in such Bribery or other corrupt practices.

  WITNESSES
  Resolved, That if it shall appear that any person hath been tampering with any Witness, in respect of his evidence to be given to this House, or any Committee thereof, or directly or indirectly hath endeavoured to deter or hinder any person from appearing or giving evidence, the same is declared to be a high crime and misdemeanour; and this House will proceed with the utmost severity against such offender.
  Resolved, That if it shall appear that any person bath given false evidence in any case before this House, or any Committee thereof, this House will proceed with the utmost severity against such offender.

  METROPOLITAN POLICE
  Ordered, That the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis do take care that during the Session of Parliament the passages through the streets leading to this House be kept free and open and that no obstruction be permitted to hinder the passage of Members to and from this House, and that no disorder be allowed

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  in Westminster Hall, or in the passages leading to this House, during the Sitting of Parliament, and that there be no annoyance therein or thereabouts; and that the Serjeant at Arms attending this House do communicate this Order to the Commissioner aforesaid.

  VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS
  Ordered, That the Votes and Proceedings of this House be printed, being first perused by Mr. Speaker; and that he do appoint the printing thereof; and that no person but such as he shall appoint do presume to print the same.
  Ordered, That a Committee of Privileges be appointed.
OUTLAWRIES BILL
"For the more effectual preventing Clandestine Outlawries," read the First time; to be read a Second time.

JOURNAL
Ordered, That the Journal of this House, from the end of the last Session to the end of the present Session, with an Index thereto, be printed.
Ordered, That the said Journal and Index be printed by the appointment and under the direction of Sir Gilbert Francis Montriou Campion, K.C.B., the Clerk of this House.
Ordered, That the said Journal and Index be printed by such person as shall be licensed by Mr. Speaker, and that no other person do presume to print the same.

SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE (AIR-RAID WARNINGS)
Ordered,
That during the present Session the following provisions shall have effect as respects the Sittings of the House, notwithstanding anything in any Standing Order, Order, or Resolution or the practice of the House—

(1) If, by reason of an air-raid alarm signal being given while the House is sitting, the Sitting is suspended, it shall be resumed as soon as may be after the release signal is given;

(2) If at the time appointed for the Meeting of the House on any day an air-raid alarm signal has been given and the
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release signal has not been given, the Meeting of the House shall be postponed until as soon as may be after the release signal is given:

Provided that, where the Sitting of the House on any day is suspended by virtue of the foregoing paragraph till after the time appointed for the Meeting of the House on the following day, this paragraph shall not apply with respect to that following day and the ordinary practice of the House with respect to overlapping Sittings shall apply;
(3) Where any Sitting of the House is suspended or postponed as aforesaid—

(a) the time at which any Business, the consideration of which has not begun, is required by any Standing Order, Order or Resolution of the House to be taken; and

(b) the time at which any such Business, or any Business the consideration of which has begun but has not been completed, is required as aforesaid to be concluded or interrupted;

shall be postponed by the length of the period for which the Sitting has been suspended or postponed:
Provided that, where at any such Sitting the remainder of the Business of the House has been disposed of before the time at which Private Business, or any Motion for Adjournment under Standing Order No. 8, is required to be considered by the foregoing provisions of this paragraph, that Private Business or Motion shall be considered immediately after the conclusion of the remainder of the Business;
(4) At any Sitting of the House which has been suspended or postponed as aforesaid, any Motion or other Business which, but for this paragraph, could not have been made or taken without notice, or would have been required to be made or taken at a particular time or at a particular stage of the proceedings, may be made by, or taken at the instance of, a Minister of the Crown without notice and at any other time or other stage of the proceedings.

GOVERNMENT BILLS TO BE PRESENTED
Notice was given that the following Government Bills would be introduced on an early day:
Bill to provide for the re-instatement to civil employment of certain persons who are, or have been, in the service of the Crown or in the Civil Defence Forces; and
Bill to make further provision for enabling persons handicapped by disablement to secure employment or work on their own account, and for purposes connected therewith.—[Mr. Ernest Bevin.]
Bill to reform the law relating to education in England and Wales.—[Mr. Ede.]

KING'S SPEECH
Mr. Speaker: I have to acquaint the House that the House has this day attended His Majesty in the House of Peers, and His Majesty was pleased to make a Most Gracious Speech from the Throne to both Houses of Parliament, of which, I have, for greater accuracy, obtained a copy, which is as followeth:
MY LORDS AND MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS,
In the fourth year of war the Forces of the United Nations assumed the offensive in all theatres of war. The enemy has been cast out of Africa; freedom has been brought to Sicily, Sardinia and Corsica; and in Italy My Forces and those of My American Ally are now engaging the enemy on the mainland of Europe. On his eastern front the enemy has given ground before the massive and unrelenting advance of the Russian Armies, whose magnificent achievements we have watched with ever-deepening admiration. The captive peoples of Europe are everywhere preparing to throw off the yoke of the oppressor; and we shall continue to afford them such help and encouragement as lies in our power. On the frontier of India and in the Pacific, Japanese aggression has been halted, and the Forces of the United Nations are now moving to the offensive. At sea My Navies and those of our Allies continue to maintain their mastery over the enemy, and important successes have been won in the struggle against the enemy's U-boats. The Air Forces of the United Nations have maintained their ascendancy in all theatres of war, and have increased the weight of their blows at the enemy's heart.
The mounting scale of our offensive is the fruit of the devoted and untiring efforts of My peoples throughout the Commonwealth and Empire; and in the coming year we shall, with God's help, be able to bring to bear upon the enemy a still greater weight of attack. With the growing help of our great American Ally, and together with the other United Nations, we shall go forward with confidence in our cause until we have delivered the peoples of the world from the fear of the aggressor.
My Government, taking counsel with My Allies and building upon the foundations laid at the recent Conference in Moscow, will devote continuous attention to the study of plans for the future settlement of Europe.
MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS,
You will be asked to make further financial provision for the conduct of the war and for the other necessary services.
MY LORDS AND MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS,
My Government will continue to concentrate their powers and energies upon the prosecution of the war; and, until final victory is won, that will be their primary task. You will be invited to pass such further legislation as may be necessary to provide far the needs of the war and to meet abnormal conditions arising from the war.
At the same time My Ministers are resolved that, so far as the future can be foreseen, they shall be ready to meet the different tasks that await them when victory has been won. They have undertaken a special review of the problems which are likely to arise as hostilities in Europe come to an end and of the adjustments which will have to be made when we turn to prosecute with fresh vigour the war against Japan; and in the months to come My Ministers will complete their provisional plans for the period of transition through which we must pass before the troubled times of war give place to settled conditions of peace. It will be the primary aim of My Government to ensure that in this period food, homes and employment are provided for My people, that good progress is made with the rebuilding of our damaged cities, and that in industry, mining and agriculture a smooth transition is made from war to peace. For some of these purposes fresh powers will be needed; and, as the preparations proceed, proposals for the necessary legislation will be laid before you. You will, in the immediate future, be asked to make provision for the training and employment of disabled persons, and to amend the law regarding the reinstatement in their civil employment of persons discharged from the Armed Forces.
In certain fields it is already possible to look beyond the transitional period and to frame proposals for social reforms designed to confer lasting benefits on My people.
A measure embodying My Government's proposals for the reconstruction of the national system of education in England and Wales will be laid before you. An Advisory Council is now preparing reports which are expected to form the basis for educational developments in Scotland.
My Ministers will present to you their views and proposals regarding an enlarged and unified system of social insurance, a comprehensive health service and a new scheme of workmen's compensation; and they will decide, in the light of your discussions, what specific proposals for legislation on these matters can be brought forward at this stage.
You will be invited to pass legislation conferring special powers for the re-development of areas which, by reason of enemy action, over-crowding or otherwise, need to be re-planned as a whole.
My Government will lay before you the results of their examination of the Reports which have been made recommending the assumption of further powers to control and direct the use of the land of Great Britain.
It is the desire of My Government that full consideration should be given to various proposals which have been put forward for changes in the existing franchise law, and you will be invited to give your early attention to this question.
My Ministers will maintain and develop the measures for promoting the health and well-being of My people which, by God's providence, have been so successful during the past four years of war.
I pray that the Almighty may give His blessing to your counsels.

DEBATE ON THE ADDRESS.
Commander Brabner(in naval uniform): I beg to move,
"That an humble Address be presented to His Majesty as followeth:
Most Gracious Sovereign,
We, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, in Parliament assembled, beg leave to otter our humble thanks to Your Majesty for the Gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament."
To be entrusted with this task at the close of our first full year of initiative and victory is indeed an honour. I realise only too well my inadequacy for the task, but I take some heart from the compliment which is paid to those whom I. represent, however intermittently, in this House. I realise, too, that it is a compliment to that ever-growing body of flying men of the Royal Navy whose uniform I am proud to wear. The people of the Parliamentary Borough of Hythe have borne with me patiently in my almost continuous absence which may have a certain charm for them, up till now. I hope they will continue to do so, and, if they do, it is largely due to the kindness and hard work which my hon. Friend the Member for Canterbury (Sir W. Wayland) has so unselfishly done when I have been otherwise engaged. The people of this strip of coast, which stretches from Folkestone to the Cinque Port of Hythe, have been closely connected with our relations with the Continent for the last 1,500 years. They are an amphibious people. The sea and the soil have combined to produce in them a temperament which, I think, is best described by an ancient historian, William of Malmesbury. He says:
"The country people and town dwellers of Kent retain the spirit of that ancient nobility above the rest of the English, being more ready to afford respect and kind entertainment to others and less inclinable to revenge and injuries."
Whatever their future political complexion, I whole-heartedly agree with William of Malmesbury. They received refugees from the first Nazi rush Westwards, and many of the tired but unbeaten men from Dunkirk had good cause to remember the kindliness of these people. As belonging to a Cinque Port, the people of this coast, or their forbears, have seen invasion before and have helped to throw it back, and over their heads

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during the Battle of Britain they saw another invader thrown out. But, if the actual physical destruction of war has mercifully not descended on them as heavily as on other places, the ruin and misery which war has brought with it are very apparent. Thousands of people have been evacuated, and hundreds of homes have been broken up, and those who stopped have remained to face in most cases financial ruin and the possible threat of invasion. I hope these coastal areas will be treated generously after the war, because, in an England which is not un-prosperous and which is working full out, they must of necessity be kept in the straitjacket of military control. But they are firmly united in this war because, with their unaided eye, on a clear day they can see from this area the very crown of that brown and beastly wave which swept across Europe and which has still to be flung back again.
Notwithstanding that high water mark upon the Channel coast, for a year we have been fed upon victory, by our Russian Allies and by our own Forces, combined with the Americans, in massive combined operations. As the Gracious Speech has said, the forces of the United Nations assumed the offensive on all fronts. Victory is a powerful drug, which stimulates the appetite for more and at the same time brings with it complete oblivion of the past, either immediate or more distant, and before this sets in, I hope to pay my humble tribute to the Prime Minister, who has, indeed, been the architect of victory. He has told us that a run of success, however extended, is not necessarily complete success and that there will be fierce trials yet to come. While victory complete and final is an end, it is not enough, and I would talk for a moment of the future of our fighting young men.
The Gracious Speech has outlined the vast area of the problems of reconstruction and has particularly given expression to the intention to amend the law regarding the reinstatement in civil employment of men discharged from the Armed Forces. This intention will, I am certain, be welcomed by everyone. The Seconder of the Motion will probably deal much more fully and more competently than I can with the wide domestic details of reconstruction, but what of the future
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of these hundreds of thousands of young men? When the war is over many will have been serving for five or six years. These young men have been uprooted from normal life. They may well never have had any employment at all, because they were too young before the war, or they may just have started and will have lost the thread. In any case a great slice of their twenties will have disappeared entirely. I am not unmindful of the immense suffering which the civilian population have undergone in the war nor of the terrific effort that they have put into it, but the fighting side of this country, of the Empire and of the Commonwealth and the vast majority of young men are in the Services, and whether we like it or not in the last instance it is young men who make war. One of the chief reasons which drove Hitler on was the fanatical devotion of the youth of Germany.
If young men make war, I hope that they are entitled to some attention in the peace. I say this with the greatest diffidence and do not mean to be provocative. I do not want to be thought to be doing any special pleading, but I have been living with these men for the last four years, and I have had the honour of leading some of them into action. Nobody can ask for a greater privilege than that, nor can you get to know them better than in these circumstances. They are for the most part inarticulate; they do not easily know what they want or how they should get it. They have been taken at a very formative period of their lives, they have been disciplined and encouraged to use their initiative within an intelligent discipline, and they have become men of action. Above all, they are responsive to leadership, and I am certain that there are no better fighting young men anywhere than those from this country, the Empire and the Commonwealth. I am certain, too, that their requirement after this war will be that this thundering nuisance of a German or a Japanese war every so often must stop. We really must take every possible step to prevent this tragedy recurring. The Gracious Speech indicated that continuous attention is being paid to the study of plans for the future settlement of Europe. Whatever form the international organisation set up after the war may take, the requirement that this holocaust shall not break out

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again can, I believe, in part be met by insisting that we maintain adequate armaments after the war, and by insisting that many young men who have become professionals whether they like it or not shall be given an opportunity for a full, intelligent and progressive life in the Services. I wonder whether they can rely on that or whether the drug of victory will operate too quickly.
The second thing is that they have been trained to action and have become quite accustomed to insecurity. What can we offer them that will be in tune with this vigorous state of mind at the opening of this tremendous year when the struggle with Germany may be mortal and final? It is a vigorous state of mind, a mixture of self-confidence, of pride in their Service and of readiness to try anything. They who have been so long accustomed to insecurity will, I feel, hardly be attracted or satisfied with the plain straightforward prospect of humdrum controlled security after the war. I hope that our thoughts will turn to more active things for them more in tune with their state of mind and development. Can we not inspire them with the prospect of activity and opportunity in a peace turbulent with the pursuit of an effective peace? I cannot believe that they will be content with anything else. After the last war and in the interim years there were continual complaints that young men were not available for this or that because they had all been killed off. It is useless crying over spilt milk and still more futile crying over spilt blood, because there is no remedy for that. All I hope is that before our casualties, which may again be heavy, do happen we can say to these young men that we are conscious of the great part this country is going to play in the post-war world and that we intend that they shall be given a living interest and living connection with the affairs of this country so that they do not again begin to feel frustrated, as I believe they felt last time.
I quote with no discourteous intent a phrase of Lawrence of Arabia. He said: Youth was good at winning but had not learnt to keep, and was pitiably weak against age. If left to themselves, they may be equally weak this time. That is why I hope that we can offer them a clear, sharp prospect of activity and opportunity and say to them that we are
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going to work in peace as in war, that we are going to open up the Empire by air, by sea, and by trade, and that we are not going to liquidate it, because it has been well described lately as the most interesting experiment in international democracy, and it is an experiment which is far from finished yet. I hope that we can assure these young men that we are so going to organise ourselves in peace that we can compare, as we do in war, with our two great Allies, Russia and America, surely two of the greatest world Powers which have ever emerged. They are younger than we are and they are very conscious of their strength, but we too have cast off our peace-time fat and I hope that we will not put it back again after the war.
If we can promise young men great opportunities to make lives for themselves, to play, as I have suggested, a vital part in the affairs of this country, and to have such contact with other young men, particularly among our two great Allies, then I am certain that the raw material of war will be less readily available. The human and practical application of this stretches far into the future, and the Gracious Speech has mapped out the road along which the journey will probably begin. If this can be done, I believe that young men will have no cause for complaint. They will be inspired by the prospect of an eventual common citizenship which the Prime Minister has indicated, and if in future, having done their fighting and come back, they can help to bring this about and at the same time graft it on to a sturdy and tolerant nationalism, they will have proved themselves good men and good citizens of the world.
Mr. George Griffiths: I beg to second the Motion.
I have listened to about ten King's Speeches and to the Movers and Seconders of the Address in reply, but I do not think I have ever listened to one that has really come up to the quality of the speech of the hon. and gallant Member for Hythe (Commander Brabner). In fact, as I have sat here he has hypnotised me. He made me think of the case of a Salvation Army lad in Glasgow some 20 years ago. He had his breakfast very early in the morning, and the officer was full of his subject, the same as the hon. and gallant gentleman

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was. The officer said: "What further shall I say, comrades?" This young man, who had had his meal, said: "Say 'Amen' and let us go home." That is how I really feel now, and I am not sure whether my comrades on the other side do not feel it also. I feel that this is a great honour. When I was asked whether I would second the Vote of thanks to the King, I was nervous about it, and it was a good job they asked me over the telephone. Then I thought of two or three words of the present Home Secretary when he got his first job in the Government—Minister of Supply, I believe. He said: "Go to it." When the telephone rang I thought: "I had better go to it."
Candidly, I feel that this is an honour, but I never felt more nervous in my life than I do to-day, because when I look across to the other side I feel that almost anybody, in fact everybody, on those benches could do this job better than I can. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Well, hon. Members must wait and see. I have known this House for the past ten years, and whenever Members, either male or female, are in a tight corner there is no place in the world that is more sympathetic to them. I have seen a few Members in tight corners, and I have seen the full sympathy of the House shown towards them, and I feel I shall never speak anywhere where I shall require more sympathy than I want at the moment. I asked the Mover of the Vote of Thanks, "What sort of a Parliamentary Division is yours?" Of course, we have seen one another for only two or three minutes. He told me that it was a borough. My Division is a composition of urban and rural. I have looked back at the speeches on this occasion over the past three years. I find that in 1940 the Government decided to select London Members for this duty, and picked out St. Pancras and Bow and Bromley. Next year they looked round and said, "We cannot do anything better than have Sheffield." The hon. Member for Brightside (Mr. Marshall) seconded the Vote. Last year the Member for East or West, or South or North Bristol—I do not know which—was the Mover. He represented the great city of Bristol. I feel that it is a great honour that the Government should have cast their eyes round this year and said, "We will select a Division which includes
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an urban district and a rural district and also have a small borough." The hon. and gallant Member has risen to the occasion. He said that his constituency has borne his absence. When they get his speech in the Press down at Folkestone and Hythe I do not think they will bother about him until the next General Election, because of the able way in which he has performed his duty.
I want to say a word about my own Division. Of course, I think that my Division is the best in the country; for one reason, they give me the best job I ever had in my life. [Laughter.] Some hon. Members are smiling. I should like to pass to a personal note. Until I came into this House, for 43 long years I had never had a holiday with pay. I was returned unopposed on the Thursday before the Whitsuntide break-up, and I wrote to the Secretary of the Labour Party and asked, "Shall I come down for Friday?" He said, "No, stop at home for a fortnight." It was a holiday with pay before I started to work. Some Members will not now wonder why, since I have been in the House, I have pressed for holidays with pay for everybody.
My Division includes three important industries which are vital to the war. The first is agriculture—agriculture in the East of the Division and agriculture in the West. The agricultural industry has done marvellously, surpassing the highest expectations of the Government and the country. I do not think any of us ever thought we could produce so much food in this country as we are producing today, and we are not yet at the peak. In the past the agricultural worker was looked down upon as the Cinderella of -industry, in fact, was spoken of as a farm labourer. He is not a farm labourer; he is a skilled worker. The agricultural worker to-day, although his standard of living is far in advance of what it was before the war, his wages having risen from 35s. to, I believe, 65s. a week, is still underpaid. I should like to remind the House that the agricultural worker with his 65s., when he gets into one of these "Browning houses" and has to pay a rent of from 12s. 6d. to 15s. a week, will not have much left over to bring up a family, and I am hoping that we shall advance the wages of these skilled farm workers still further. Why, bless my soul and body, if some of us here were asked to milk a cow on a farm

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we should not know at which end to begin. But the agricultural worker is a skilled worker, and we must pay more attention to him; and the producer of the food must also be protected. There must not in the future be the muddle and disorganisation which were detrimental to both farmer and farm worker before the war came.
There is another industry in my Division—the railways. There are in my Division some 3,000 men who are railway workers. The railways of this country are the envy of the world. We have not given sufficient credit to those who manipulate our railways. Men who were ready for retiring five years ago are still on the footplate, working in the blackout, working Tong hours. They are on the footplate night and day, some of them, working seven or eight shifts a week. They are a credit to the British race. In all we have some 656,498 railway workers, of whom 105,703 are women. Who is there in this House when he goes either to St. Pancras, King's Cross, or Euston does not hear the cheery voice of the young lady shouting out "Four o'clock train for Sheffield on No. 5 platform"? And when the Welshmen in the House get uneasy, look at the clock and rush away to Paddington for the five minutes to two or the five minutes to six train, she shouts "Five minutes to six for Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, etc." I feel that we have not paid sufficient credit and due respect to these workers.
I have another very important industry in my Division, and that is mining. In my Division I have 16 collieries and 25,000 men working there. I feel a bit keen about the industry. I feel uneasy about the disturbances in the industry, and I have been giving much time to thinking these matters out. I have lived with my people in the industry. I go home to them every week-end. If I did not go home every week, the wife would want to know what I was doing. I understand the industry, and I understand the difficulties both from the managements' and from the men's side, but I am uneasy about the output. This is a day to be candid. There are faults on both sides; there is no doubt about that. There is not a man in this House representing a mining Division who does not feel that avoidable absenteeism should cease, and I want to give a word, if I may, to some of my friends—we are all friends to-day—and to ask them not to prod this ab-
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senteeism so much in the past as it has been prodded in the future. I told the House I should make mistakes. What I meant to say was not to prod so much in the future as they have been prodding in the past, because some of my men, men of from 50 to 60 years of age, say, "George, we are tired of this prodding. We are working, and while we are working we don't want this prodding of the industry." They want a little bit of appreciation.
Our men in the mines are like the elder brother of the prodigal son when his father came to him and said, "Aren't you coming into the concert?" If you read your Bible you will see that what I am saying is true. He said, "No." The prodigal son had squandered everything; he had almost brought the old man to the edge of bankruptcy, but when he came home his father killed for him the fatted calf, not merely a calf on the farm, but the fatted calf. And the elder brother said to his father, "You have killed for him the fatted calf, but thou never gayest me a kid." He had never had any appreciation, and he had been working long hours, from dawn until dark, and what he was asking for, in a sense, was that his dad should say to him, "Well done"; and his father's eyes were opened, and he said to his son, "All that I have is thine." If he had said that years before, the son would have been far more happy and satisfied, and what I am asking to-day is this, that we should give to the miners, who are doing their best, a word of appreciation. That is the point I wanted to get over.
I will give just one illustration, and then I will say no more about the industry. I was going home to Barnsley the other day and got into a bus with a miner friend of mine who is 66 years of age. He was a little cockney boy and came out to my mining division almost 48 years ago together with his brother. They had a foster father, who took a delight in them and cared for them. These lads went into the pit that I worked down. This miner was going home on the same bus that I was on. He had a black face, because there were no baths at his pit. There was no canteen there, only a snack bar. I said to him, "How are you going on?" He said, "I am dead beat. I have done eleven shifts this fortnight at the coal face." He would have done the

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12 shifts, but he was working elsewhere. He said, "I am tired," but there was the spirit. I said to him, "Frank, why aren't you doing an easier job?" He said, "The boss will not give me one. He says I have got to work at the coal face with my brother, who is 69 years of age." They had got to cut the coal. I was proud of that man and his brother.
I have not really the time, or I might read a letter from a young airman to his family. He wrote the letter, which was left behind, and the letter stated, "I am going, and if I do not return they are going to forward this letter to you." The airman was 22 years of age. They forwarded that letter on; I have got it here. I do not want to prolong the discussion or the Debate in the House, but the essence of that letter was this: "I am thanking you for the education you have given me. I am thanking you for the life that you have helped me to live. You know I am going; I feel it is my duty and that I shall not be enabled to fulfil my expectations that I intended to fulfil if I had come back." I went to see the father and mother on Sunday morning at half-past ten and knocked at the door. The father said, "Come in, George." I said, "I have come to have a chat with you about that letter. Where's the wife?" She was in the house—a beautifully clean miner's cottage. Only the two old people were in that cottage. The wife said to me, "Mr. Griffiths"—the husband called me "George"—"they have got it all wrong in the Press. He is not dead; he is only missing." I thought that was a lovely spirit. All the other birds had flown out of the nest, and he was the only single lad at home, but his mother had still got faith to believe, although she had got this letter which appeared to come from the grave, that he would come back again. That is a Division of which I think any Member could be proud.
I want to say one or two words—and only one or two words—on the King's Speech. I have never known two Bills to be introduced into the House before on the very same day that the King's Speech was discussed. That is a good omen for the future. My hon. and gallant Friend has been talking about the future of those coming out of the Forces, and about rehabilitation. I am a bag-carrier in one of the Government Departments, a
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P.P.S. I feel highly satisfied with the way the Ministry of Pensions have made up their mind on rehabilitation and the fitting of limbs. They are throwing their whole soul into the matter, and are going to help everybody who makes an application or whom they know requires help. It would be a shame for us in future to see any Service-man, or anybody who has been in the Civil Defence services, who has lost an arm or a leg going about without an artificial limb. I think there will be a great advance on this question of artificial limbs. We saw an exhibition upstairs, at which you could not tell which was the artificial limb and which was the natural one. I am delighted that the Government are going to do all they can not only for the Service-men but also for the people who have met with accidents in the Civil Defence services.
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Education has stated that an Education Bill will be introduced soon. I hope that the Government will stand pat by the White Paper. I trust that, no matter from what quarter opposition may come, the discussion—I will not call it negotiations—which the President of the Board of Education is now having behind the scenes will not alter the contents of the Bill as set out in the White Paper. The White Paper is a greater advance in education than anything which has been brought on to the Floor of the House of Commons. I hope that we shall get agreement so that the Bill may soon be on the Statute Book. Nobody has a greater desire to push education forward than those who- have not had it. I went to a Church of England school until I was 11½, and I have never had any other education except for a few nights with the W.E.A., and then I was almost too tired to hear what the tutor had to say: I fell asleep many times over the lessons. The coming generation must have something better than what we have had.
I hope that the new Compensation Bill will be one that the workmen can understand. The Compensation Acts which have been put on the Statute Book are almost like a patchwork puzzle. You cannot understand them. In one case the injured workman is entitled to 50 per cent. of his earnings in recent years; in another, he is entitled to two-thirds; while, under the new Act which we have just passed, he is entitled to seven-eighths. I hope that we shall have a good Compensation

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Measure, which will satisfy everybody. I believe that when a man or a woman is hurt the injured person has a right to compensation equal to the wages which were earned before. I know that not everybody agrees with that, but when a man is ill he requires more than he does when he is well: he needs more attention. I trust that the Bill will be one which we shall all understand, and that it will be worthy of the House of Commons. I have great pleasure in seconding the Motion.
Mr. Pethick-Lawrence: The House has just been experiencing one of those happy occasions when we listen with full attention to two Members proposing and seconding the Address in reply to the Gracious Speech. This is an occasion when some of the hidden talent which this House possesses comes out into the light, and we realise with pleasure the resources which we have in this House, which are only too infrequently brought to light. The speech of the Mover, in particular, gave us that pleasure to-day. The hon. and gallant Member for Hythe (Commander Brabner) has shown not only that he is capable of upholding the high traditions of his country in its service abroad, but also that he has the power to interest and charm this House. He has given us humour, he has given us some very solid thought, and he has fulfilled his part in the highest traditions of this House. My hon. Friend the Member for Hemsworth (Mr. G. Griffiths) also has spoken to us in his own characteristic way. His voice we know a little better than that of the hon. and gallant Member for Hythe. We know his voice and we love his voice, because he always keeps us in good humour and always impresses us with his great sincerity. If I may say so, we recognise in him, although not in the official, technical sense, a very gallant gentleman.
I propose now to turn to the actual terms of the Gracious Speech. It divides itself into two quite separate parts. First, there is the successful prosecution until victory of the war. That remains the first preoccupation of the country, of this House, and of the Government, which is the executive instrument that the House set up for this specific purpose 3½ years ago. If I say little about this part of the King's Speech the House will under-stand
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the reason. We shall be returning to that later on in the Debate.
I understand that some explanation is to be forthcoming from the Lord President of the Council with regard to the Dodecanese Islands. I am glad that we have the promise that my right hon. Friend will deal with the events in Cos, Leros and Samos which have exercised the minds, not only of this House, but of the country as a whole, so very seriously within the last few days. I need not remind the Lord President of the great anxiety which is felt by the country in this matter, and I feel sure that he will address himself to the two questions which the country is asking. The first is how did it come about that those islands had to be surrendered to the enemy and the second, why it was not foreseen in advance, and why, in that case, were these expeditions undertaken? It is not merely that we have sacrificed the men who have been killed or taken prisoner; we have suffered, undoubtedly, a loss of prestige, and the enemy has gained just that little bit of success which he needed so sorely, in order to restore, in part at any rate, the morale of his depressed people.
I turn to the other part of the Gracious Speech, which deals with preparations for post-war life. I notice that this Session has been called, in some quarters, the reconstruction Session, and I certainly do not quarrel with that description, provided two things are understood. The first proviso is that we do not imply by the use of those words that the war is virtually over. That certainly is not the case. We have every reason to think that long, hard days may still be in front of us. If the event should prove otherwise, of course we shall be only too glad, but we certainly cannot count upon an early or immediate victory. The fact that our thoughts are being directed to post-war life, does not mean that the war may be expected to end next week or next month or even necessarily next year. We must not count our chickens before they are hatched. But what we have to remember is that if the war is not to go on until well on into 1945, it is necessary for us in this Session, which, as I need not remind hon. Members, will go on roughly until this time next year, to make adequate preparations so that we shall not be caught as unprepared for the peace, as we were unprepared for the war when it broke out

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over four years ago. The second proviso which I feel it necessary to set out is this: When we speak of reconstruction we do not understand the word in the sense of reconstituting the world as it was before the war. We mean planning and preparing the scaffolding for an entirely new edifice, which will be the home of a new world, better and nobler, we hope, and more worthy of human destiny than the old decaying edifice, which contained so much misery and so much injustice and which has been crumbling in Europe throughout the whole course of the war. It may be right, as the Prime Minister suggested the other day, to build the new Chamber, in which the House of Commons is to do its duties, broadly on the lines of the old Chamber, which we all loved so well, but it will not be right to build the new civilisation in which the generations of the future will live and have their being, on the pattern of the old civilisation of the days gone by.
With those two provisos, I welcome the official indication contained in the King's Speech that this is to be a Session of reconstruction. I go further, and say that I believe it is imperative that this should be such a Session. But when I turn to the actual programme outlined in the Gracious Speech, I find between the lines of the pious sentiments expressed there in almost every case the fatal word "procrastination." I look for promises of action and I find little to justify the hope that action will be undertaken. I see a great deal about the Government laying before us their views and the results of their examinations which suggests to me an endless vista of White Papers and only a meagre fare of concrete proposals for immediate execution. I am not complaining because in the King's Speech the different Bills are not scheduled in detail, but I am complaining of the apparent intention, in connection with almost every matter, to introduce further stages of delay between vague generalities and definite specific action. If my reading is correct, I greatly fear that when we come to review the results of our work a year hence the verdict will be once again "Too little and too late."
Let me give a few illustrations. There is talk about employment for everyone—a most excellent sentiment—but there are no suggestions, as far as I can see, in
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the King's Speech on how it is proposed to create that expanding economy on which, alone, full employment can be based. There is talk about social insurance but no undertaking to implement the whole of the Beveridge Scheme, or indeed any substantial part of it, during the present Session. There is talk about the use of the land but no indication that the Government are going to grasp the nettle of controlling the land of the country in the interests of our people as a whole, either by land nationalisation, or even by such an attenuated form of control as is envisaged in the Uthwatt Report. There is no suggestion of any new and comprehensive approach on the mining impasse and there is no proposal for any immediate relief of the hardships suffered by the aged who have given their years of health and strength to producing for the needs of the community. There is no mention whatever of any proposal for the development of human resources in the Colonial Empire, and no mention of any scheme to end the deadlock in the great sub-continent of India.
It may be that I am unduly pessimistic. It may be that the Government are much further on with their plans than I am suggesting. If that be so, I hope that when the Lord President comes to speak he will dispose of all the fears that I have expressed and explain what definite action the Government intend to take. But if, unfortunately, I am correct in my reading, then I make bold to inquire why there is this inaction. I do not find it in the character of the Prime Minister, or, indeed in that of his Cabinet colleagues. The Prime Minister is a man who likes activity. It is the tradition of his life that he likes to see things happening and to take his part in events. Consummate orator as he is, his real genius lies not in words but in deeds. Now that he has begun to allow this matter of reconstruction to have a place in his thoughts, he must desire not merely to talk about it, but to do something to bring it into being.
The impediment does not lie in the lack of time in the House of Commons. We curtailed our days of sitting while the war was not merely the main but the sole preoccupation of our minds, because in the sphere of war the House of Commons could do little more than criticise. It could comfort and sustain the Government by what it said or did and could help the Government by refusing to im-

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pinge too much upon their time. But now that the character of our work is changing and we are being asked to pass legislation, that is the function Of the House of Commons. I am quite sure that if it is asked to do so, the House of Commons will not hesitate to spend more days in the week than it has done during the earlier days of the war in order that it may do its duty to the nation and be worthy of it, by a rearrangement that will not, necessarily involve taking up more time of members of the Government.
Looking about further for an explanation, I cannot help beginning to wonder whether the real obstacle to action does not lie in the nature of the Coalition or rather in the way in which the nature of the Coalition is being interpreted. I was all for the formation of the Coalition Government and, for the prosecution of the war; I believe that every section of it has a common purpose and a common mind. It was and remains essential for that purpose; but where views differ, Coalitions can only continue to exist by compromise. What action is possible when some cry "Forward" and some cry "Back"? Or, to put it in another way, what is the true basis of compromise between those who want to stand still and those who want to go rapidly forward? It certainly is not to remain motionless or to move forward at a snail's pace. The hon. member for Oxford (Mr. Hogg) contributed a very interesting article to one of the evening papers yesterday, and I had the pleasure of reading it. It was, if he will allow me to say so, a very clever article and a very good piece of electioneering. I agree with him that if we can have unity in action between all parties, it is a most excellent thing, but if so-called unity means inaction, then I have no use for it at all.
This Coalition Government, as I see it, is still essential for the prosecution of the war, but there is now being thrown upon it, by the logic of events and by the definite decision of the Government, the further task of laying the foundations of the new world. If it is to do that worthily, it must insist on action. If the majority of the Members of one party are going to put their veto on all-important progress, it may be their form of war, but it is not magnificent, and it will not inure to the future prosperity of the
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people; and if that veto is going to be sustained by the Government, the hope that by means of the Coalition Government and this Parliament we can prepare the way for the post-war world, will, I am convinced, be frustrated.
I appeal therefore to the Prime Minister and his colleagues not to take this narrow view of their responsibility, in their leadership of this House and of the country. It is their duty to prepare these schemes of reconstruction which they have undertaken and not to be afraid of giving such a lead, as will result in positive and constructive action.
Lieut.-Colonel Elliot: It would be a poor compliment to the two sparkling Beeches that we heard from the Mover and the Seconder of the Address if we took the advice somewhat sardonically given by the Seconder that we should all say "Amen" and go home. When I heard him say that he was going to tell a story from Glasgow I rather thought he was poaching on my preserves, and I will say that that is not usually the spirit in which anybody in Glasgow attends a public or any other kind of meeting, so far as I have knowledge of that city. I think it is desirable in the first place to say how much we in all quarters of the House enjoyed the speeches of the Mover and Seconder. The speech of the Seconder, of my hon. Friend, if I may call him so, not only on this day but every day, was the speech of one who is a true Member of Parliament without prefix or suffix. He is, in fact, in addition to his many other qualities, one of those who has not allowed physical disability to be an obstacle to his part in public life, and he takes his place with that great man the President of the United States and all those who have successfully overcome disabilities which, with less courage, might have seemed insuperable.
The Mover of the Address, my hon. and gallant Friend, spoke of his own constituency, with his usual restraint and modesty, as amphibious. He can be no reader of recent political literature, or he would have realised that the word "amphibious" is practically reactionary nowadays. We are all triphibious in a moderate way and polyphibious if we aspire to real heights in modern literary style. He had better regard himself as the first triphibian from this previously amphibious constituency. The hon. and

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gallant Member comes here with his feet firmly planted on the ground, with the blue uniform of the Navy on his back, and on his arms a decoration which shows that he is also a creature accustomed to living in air, and also in fire.
The two Members who moved and seconded the Address so ably to-day bore out the great tradition which is also exemplified by the two Members who have latest joined us, which is that there is no service, however arduous and dangerous, to which this House urges the people of the country, in which it is not willing and ready itself to take part. Nor is there any service or adventure from which men, returned to this House, will not find here Members who have shared in such dangers and adventures and who can take counsel with them and speak at first hand of these things. It is a great and noble tradition, and we are very glad for that reason to give a special welcome to the representatives of that young and gallant band, of which the hon. and gallant Member for Hythe (Commander Brabner) is so shining an example.
It would also be a poor compliment to the Gracious Speech from the Throne, and indeed to the speech delivered by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for East Edinburgh (Mr. Pethick-Lawrence) if no voice was raised from this side of the House as to the problems which it presents and the opportunities which it offers, It was said that this was to be a reconstruction Session. I will put it otherwise. It is the first Session of a two-task Parliament, a dual-purpose Parliament, a dual-purpose Session. This Parliament, which has confronted so many tasks, is now to confront a task of further difficulty. It has to make that most dangerous mixture, of the facts of war with the thoughts of peace. It is a dangerous mixture in every circumstance, a hazardous thing, when men are engaged in battle, to discuss the joys of peace to which they may never be able to return; yet it is a task, as, has truly been said, from which we cannot escape. The people will delay no longer. They know that the strategy of the early years of war is determined by the policies of the later years of the peace and that therefore the early years of the peace will be determined by the strategy and the discussions of the later years of
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war. The peace which we are framing here in the later years of this war is what this Parliament has to examine and to do its best to mould. There is some interesting and novel phrasing which enters into the Gracious Speech from the Throne, such as:
"My Ministers will present to you their views and proposals"
and:
"they will decide, in the light of your discussions, what specific proposals for legislation on these matters can be brought forward at this stage."
In Royal parlance, "Le roi s'avisera" is a phrase indicating that a Bill is rejected. Translated from the Norman French, it would have an awkward ring about it, for it is a mild way of saying "Go away, and don't bother me with it again." We are, however, accustomed, at least in Scotland, to the same phrase in Latin, in the courts, where it is said that a thing is taken ad avizandum. It means that the learned judge in question is not very sure of himself and would like to go and talk the matter over with somebody who knows better. It is never taken as a bar to future action. So let us hope that it is the ring of the ancient Latin, rather than of the harsher Norman French, which we hear on this occasion.
There are, indeed, many lines of action which it will be most necessary for us to proceed along as speedily as possible. Let me say on behalf of all Members on this side of the House that it is not from a mere lust for inaction that we query or criticise proposals brought forward by the Government. There are many spheres in which we are as anxious as any other Members for progress. Take agriculture. We can only wish for action in that respect. Another line along which I think we all agree as to the necessity for speed is in the production of plans by which bombed-out cities can be brought speedily into shape again. There action speedy and forceful will receive assent and encouragement from all sides of the House. Take the Bills of which notice was given to-day, for education, for rehabilitation, for full economic citizenship for men injured in the war; no questioning voice will be raised about them from this side of the House. On many other matters unity will certainly be necessary throughout the whole House. Let me remind the House that the great Education Bill

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brought forward by a previous Minister was not defeated by the Conservative side of the House. It was lost on an Amendment brought forward by a respected Member who—
Mr. Lawson: It was supported by Members of the right hon. and gallant Gentleman's party.
Lieut.-Colonel Elliot: Let me put it that on that occasion, owing to an unfortunate division of opinion, an opportunity for educational reforms was lost. The argument is being brought forward on all sides that you should not allow opportunities for division to arise again. It is a fair thing to say that that Bill did not come to an end through any sabotage by our party but was brought down by an Amendment introduced by a Member of the party supporting the Government which had introduced that Bill. That shows the dangerous and ticklish ground on which we have to tread if we are to solve present problems successfully, especially in war-time.
This is not the day for long and—for myself—controversial statements. The lust of battle naturally thrills in our hearts when we see a new Session and a King's Speech, but we must avoid those tempting paths. We are perfectly willing to exchange blow for blow, but that will not get us very far. The people of this country are not looking merely to wordy exchanges in this House. They are not looking for anything which would dissolve the present Government, which they hope will be the victory Government. They do not want us to plunge this country into the whirlwind of an election. Instead they wish us to keep four square to the terrible tasks which lie before us. Along many of the lines sketched out in the King's Speech there must be give and take and good will. Given that, we can have long and successful months of work in the present Parliament and put many fruitful Measures on the Statute Book.
If there is one criticism I should make of the Speech, it is the criticism which was made by the right hon. Gentleman who has just spoken, that although there are mentioned many specific subjects, the great subject of employment is not receiving the full stress and emphasis that I should like to see in the first reconstruction King's Speech of the war years. On Clydeside, on Tyneside, and, it may well
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be, in South Wales and other industrial areas they have two fears—one, that the war may go on and the other that it may stop. There they lost their economic citizenship by millions in those years before the war. A man out of work is a political citizen, but he has not the full rights of citizenship; he does not feel that he is taking his full part in the world. A post in the ranks is very different from a place in the queue. The man in the queue feels himself not fully a man. These people fear, above all, not only the horrors of war but what they have come to regard as the curses of peace. For that reason the programme of the Government will be scrutinised in the light of its appointments. The appointment of the Minister of Reconstruction, with a place in the War Cabinet, was greeted everywhere with the greatest interest and the greatest approval, especially because of the character and achievements of the noble Lord who has taken on that task. This is the setting up of the General Staff of peace, which will have to conduct quite as much work as any staff in war-time. A very useful start has been made with the appointment of the Minister of Reconstruction and in the placing of that Minister in the centre of things, in the War Cabinet. There he will also find the Minister of Labour, the Adjutant-General, so to speak, the Minister of Man Power. What I do not see yet is the "Q" man, the Minister for stores and gear.
There are other phrases in the King's Speech, some of them not very well defined, such as:
"You will be invited to pass legislation conferring special powers for the re-development of areas which by reason of enemy action, over-crowding or otherwise, need to be re-planned as a whole."
"Otherwise" that is a small portmanteau into which to pack the great industrial areas of this country, but, still, it is evidence of good intention, and we take it that along these lines the Government mean business. The dangers before us are still, as everybody admits, very great indeed. There is the danger of faltering and weakening as we begin to use this two-purpose approach to the affairs of our country. I believe that with the help and assistance on the two lines which the Mover and Seconder represented—the man with the plane and the man with the pick—in that partnership, we shall go very far. Whatever happens, the partnership must be conducted wisely if the

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Government and Parliament are to survive, for a dual-purpose Parliament must be united, or it will instantly disappear. When men of old built a wall with a trowel in one hand and a sword in the other they could not afford to fall into internal strife, and along the path on which we have now embarked there is no dropping out save by a General Election. The people of this country do not want that. They believe there is plenty of steam and vigour both in their institutions and Parliament to carry matters through to the end which they want, and that end is victory.
Sir Percy Harris: I would like to be allowed to add my praise to the Mover and Seconder of the Address. That praise, I can assure them, is no mere formality. I am an old hand on these occasions. I have now been 24 years in the House of Commons, and I have seen many Members go through the ordeal through which my hon. Friends have had to pass. The characteristic of their speeches was a freedom of expression and a novelty of point of view. I do not think it could have been a happier selection by whoever was responsible for selecting two Members so far apart in age, in outlook and in occupation—a young man in the Air Force, in the middle of the battle, and my hon. Friend the old warrior, who spent 42 years risking his life in hard work down the pit in the common, everyday occupation of a mineworker.
What is apt about these two speeches is that nobody, not even our greatest enemy, would describe these Members as "Yes" men. I remember the speech which the hon. and gallant Member made just after the fall of Crete, when he showed great courage and independence of thought and that he was ready to speak his mind on occasion. The same applies to my hon. Friend the Member for Hemsworth (Mr. G. Griffiths). His worst enemy could not call him a "Yes" man. There is no man more independent or ready to speak his mind and call a spade a spade than my hon. Friend. We may regard these two speeches as symptomatic of national unity, and I hope that this new Session we are now starting may bring good results.
The Gracious Speech, that has not been too often referred to in this discussion,
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abounds, naturally, with references to the great progress made to win the last ounce in the fortunes of war. From Egypt the Eighth Army has moved right up to the mainland of Europe. There are critics of Allied strategy and a suggestion that it is too rigid and lacks imagination. This we all recognise. There is always a danger when you have to work with Allies, and when you have four or five Powers working together it is not so easy to be elastic and adaptable as when there is one army under one general staff and unified organisation. We are gratified at the courage of the Prime Minister in constantly making personal contact with the leaders of other countries. I recognise the strain it must be on his health, and it is an addition to the burdens of Ministers that on the top of their ordinary ministerial work they have constantly to be making personal contact with, and having long journeys to meet, the heads of various Allied Powers. I am satisfied that, however great the strain may be, it is worth while, and we are grateful for it. The more personal contact there is between the heads of the various Governments—Prime Minister Stalin, our own Prime Minister, President Roosevelt and General Chiang Kai-shek—the more likely we are able efficiently to make use of our overwhelming man-power and material.
I am inclined to think that it was a lack of personal contact that made possible that unfortunate business in Lebanon. I say deliberately "unfortunate business," because it has bad and unfortunate reactions on our people who are fighting for democracy and freedom when they see an incident of this character, no doubt magnified, but still unfortunate in the shape it took. I hope that Members will exercise some restraint in their criticism of the Committee of National Liberation. They are trustees for the French people of a great French Empire, and if perhaps occasionally, as they have done, they show lack of contact and wisdom, that fact ought to be borne in mind. But I cannot help making this comment. If we are to prevent this kind of misunderstanding, it might be well to consider whether it would not be possible to have our French Allies—because they are still our French Allies—represented on the European Advisory Committee. We must have all sides, of various Governments, to guide us into policy and action, which must go together in order to be effective

33
and enable us to take full advantage of our overwhelming strength.
The most important part in the Gracious Speech in the view of most of us is that referring to the Measures foreshadowed for forward post-war policy. Some of us would have liked to have seen these words in the last King's Speech. It has wanted a good deal of pressure from Parliament to stir the Government to realise the necessity of preparing their plans for post-war conditions. The war cry—for that is what is amounts to—in the King's Speech of "food, homes and employment" is a large one. I do not know whether it is going to be the battle-cry for the election. I believe that with that aim—food, homes and employment—we could have a united House and get the support of all parties. When it comes to translating these objects into practice there may be some differences. MY experience is—and everything I hear confirms it—that most of our soldiers are cynical about the Government's post-war intentions. My right hon. Friend who spoke referred to White Papers. White Papers have now come to be regarded by the man in the street, and particularly by the soldier, as a method of burying problems and shelving them. I was very glad to hear the Parliamentary Secretary give notice of a Bill to deal with education. I hope that it is to be produced forthwith and that we shall get on with its consideration before Christmas. I have heard a rumour that it is going to be held up to await another White Paper on the Fleming Report. That Report deals with a comparatively narrow phase of education, the public school, the importance of which is very much exaggerated. It looms too large in our consideration of educational problems. I hope, therefore, that the Bill will be printed and that we shall get on with its consideration with a determination to translate it into law, which will be a proof of our sincerity.
I could not help noticing in the King's Speech the rather peculiar reference to social security, promising us what we have been asking for for 12 months, legislation at any rate to deal with part of the problem. All we are told is that Ministers who will present their views and proposals regarding an enlarged and unified system will decide, in the light of discussions, proposals for legislation on these matters. No wonder our soldiers are getting a little
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cynical about the Beveridge Report. They have come to regard it as an attractive disquisition on an interesting problem, but they very much doubt whether the Government are going to make it a reality and to give conclusive proof that they accept in principle the greater part of the Report by producing a Bill to give it legislative effect. I think that is important. The time factor, too, is going to play a big part in legislation. This is a slow working machine. I suggest that, rather than that Bills should be held up, as we cannot set up Grand Committees, it may be necessary to sit five days a week instead of three. In normal times that does not put an undue strain on Members of Parliament. Soldiers and munition workers are required to do a full week's work, and now that we are coming to a time when we are going to prepare for the future, it is not unreasonable to ask Parliament to show its sincerity by giving more time to legislation. Perhaps if we apply our minds to legislation it will keep us out of mischief and enable us to unite our energies in putting these Bills through their final stages.
The concluding paragraph of the Gracious Speech refers to the desire of the Government to give full consideration to the extension of the franchise law. That, I assume, confirms the promise of the Government to set up a Conference under your chairmanship, Sir, during this Session of Parliament. I hope that Conference will be given a free hand, will have as broad a reference as possible and will be composed of impartial Members who are prepared to consider all these problems with open minds to see whether by our ingenuity we can improve the machinery of elections, so that the criticism which was made on the last post-war House of Commons should not apply to the House of Commons to be elected after this war. I remember going into the Gallery and looking down on Members with their bald heads. They looked like a lot of hard-faced men who had done well out of the war. We want the next House to be a representative House of Commons representing all that is best in the country and securing the election of some of the younger generation and to be a Parliament of real authority, representing all that is best in the nation. So I can with satisfaction congratulate the Government on the last paragraph of the Speech. The

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Speech itself is short, but, on the whole, I think it is one on which the Government can be congratulated.
The Lord President of the Council (Mr. Attlee): I should like to join with my three right hon. Friends who have just addressed the House in congratulating the Mover and Seconder of the Address on the admirable way in which they have discharged the duty laid upon them. The hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for Hythe (Commander Brabner) has himself seen active service in the war, and he fitly represents that younger generation which is called upon to fight. My hon. Friend the Member for Hemsworth (Mr. G. Griffiths) typifies the older section of the nation and those who do no less necessary service in the industrial sphere. Perhaps, as members of different political parties, together they symbolise the unity of effort which the House and the country have shown during all these war years. I was very much impressed by the speech of the hon. and gallant Gentleman. I thought he struck the right note—the aspirations and high endeavour of the young, and the need that after this war we shall not sit down, thinking only of safety first, but shall take part in a crusade on behalf of real peace. My hon. Friend the Member for Hemsworth delighted us with his characteristic Yorkshire humour, into which he always contrives to get so much shrewd commonsense. I think those speeches were well up to the standard of any of the speeches I have heard on these occasions for many years now.
Before dealing with the subject matter of the Gracious Speech and the points raised by my right hon. Friend I should like to deal with certain matters of business. The Debate on the Address is one of the best opportunities the House has of raising matters of general policy and for Members to raise particular points of interest. It is our intention to allow a reasonable time. Under the guidance of Mr. Speaker, we will try to meet the general wishes of the House in regard to the genaral Debate and also the discussion of specific subjects. Consultations will be held and the proposed arrangements will be brought before the House in the usual business statement. There are two urgent Bills which we shall ask the House to pass through all stages before the end of
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the year, the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill and the Local Elections and Register of Electors (Temporary Provisions) Bill, to continue for a further year the suspension of local elections. There is a third Bill that we want to see passed before the end of the year, and that is a Bill to maintain the welfare levy on coal at the present level of a penny per ton, in order that the Miners' Welfare Commission may be assured of the funds necessary to make provision for pit-head baths, when that work can be undertaken. I hope that it will be treated as an unopposed Measure. We also intend very shortly to put before the House, a White Paper. Let me say in passing, in reply to the right hon. Member for South West Bethnal Green (Sir P. Harris), that I really think the kind of statement he made is rather misleading to people outside, because the method of the White Paper has been adopted here, as in other countries, expressly in the interests of the House, in order that before Regulations are actually put before the House, the House may express its opinion. It is right we should, in present conditions, have the opportunity of testing the opinion of the House. In my experience, a White Paper laid before the House is rather a prelude to action and there is not any suggestion of putting a thing into cold storage. The White Paper which we are bringing forward will set out the codification and simplification of the Regulations relating to Supplementary Pensions and Unemployment Assistance. I hope that it will be before us in a very few days.
Mr. Tinker: Is that a consolidation Measure?
Mr. Attlee: Yes. Other business will be brought forward as time allows. I have also to inform the House that the Government intend to propose a Motion on the next Sitting Day to give precedence to Government Business, to provide for the presentation of Government Bills only, and to stop the Ballot for Private Members' Bills following the precedent of the last four years. In recent Sessions, the Government have provided many opportunities for hon. Members to raise matters of general interest. It is our hope to continue this practice, at any rate until such time as urgent and essential Government Business occupies the whole time of the House. I must warn the House that we

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have a heavy legislative programme which I think will necessitate some reconsideration of our present arrangements. The House may be asked later on to sit on additional days. As the volume of work increases, we may have to consider again setting up some Standing Committees. On these matters consultations will take place at the appropriate time and the Government will inform the House of any proposals they desire to make. The Government have also considered the request which has come from many quarters of the House for an alteration of the Rules of the House in order that the opportunity of raising matters on the Adjournment Motion may not be lost on days on which the Rule is suspended. The Government will propose an alteration in the Rules to meet this desire and to ensure to Private Members the opportunity of the half-hour Adjournment discussion at the close of Business, even when the House sits beyond the usual hour. There is one further matter which concerns the proceedings to-day. It will be necessary to go into Secret Session before the end of to-day's Sitting to renew the Motion relating to the Sittings of the House. We must obtain this Motion to-day, in order to regulate our future proceedings, and I hope it will be possible to adjourn the Debate at a reasonable hour.
Last year, on the occasion of the moving of the Address the Prime Minister gave the House a very full account of the battle of El Alamein, of the Lybian Campaign and of the landings in North Africa, which had just then taken place. In the Gracious Speech which we are considering to-day the sequel to these great events is recorded—the expulsion of the enemy from North Africa, the invasion of Europe from the south, the capture of three great islands, the advance in Southern Italy and the breaking of the Berlin-Rome axis. These events mark a great change in the war. They mark the swing over by the United Nations from the defensive to the offensive, and that change is reflected in the contents of the Gracious Speech. On 21st September last, the Prime Minister gave the House a general and comprehensive review of the war situation and the progress to that date of the Italian campaign. I, therefore, do not intend to-day to give any lengthy survey. Within the last two months our Forces and those of
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our American Allies have continued to advance in Italy in the face of obstinate resistance by the enemy. The country is mountainous and the ways of approach and the roads narrow and winding, and at this time of year the weather makes rapid progress very difficult. At the same time, week by week, the armies have moved forward. In the battle of the Atlantic the war against the U-boat continues unceasingly with success. Our losses are far less than we expected in the earlier part of the year and the toll of U-boats is maintained at a high level. It must not be thought for a moment however that there can be any relaxation in that war at sea. The attacks on our shipping to-day by U-boats and from the air have to be countered on our side with increasing vigour, and we have to meet the varying changes of tactics employed by the enemy.
Our bomber offensive, as the House knows from the events of the last few days, is being maintained steadily with some pauses due to weather, and a heavier and heavier weight of bombs is being dropped on Germany with growing success on German war industry and on German morale. These blows, let it be noted, are delivered not only from the west but from the south. In order to meet these attacks the enemy has to divert a large proportion of the Nazi air force for purely defensive operations and the requirements of his ground staff make heavy demands on his man-power. In the Balkans and in Greece, the numbers and activities of the gallant guerilla forces are steadily increasing and a large number of German divisions have to be held there to contain them. In all occupied territories the resistance movements grow in strength and in intensity. The attempt to hold down millions of people united in a common detestation of Hitler and Naziism, is a growing embarrassment for Hitler. Meanwhile, in Russia the summer campaign passed without pause into an autumn campaign, and passed into a winter war with no slackening of this tremendous offensive by our Allies. The successful advance begun in the summer continues, and the Gracious Speech fitly expresses the admiration we all feel for this magnificent achievement of the Russian Armies.
We must bear in mind that these operations, sustained with such great valour

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and skill by our own forces and those of our Allies, whether in the air, at sea or on the land, whether in Italy or in Russia, are not disconnected efforts. Each one has its bearing, each one has its effect on the others. The onlooker in this country, or the United States, or it might be in Russia, will perhaps have his eye focussed more on one effort than another, but Hitler must see them all as part of a concentric attack which he must try to meet. He has to dispose of his ground forces and of his aircraft so as to try to parry these blows which come upon him, and if he sends more aircraft to Western Europe or to Italy or to the Aegean, he has so much less for the Russian Front. If he has to keep extra divisions in the occupied areas of Europe he has so much less for the fighting fronts. Every new commitment is an added weight on forces already stretched and strained. The Italian defection meant that forces have had to be sent to replace Italian divisions in the Balkans and the Aegean.
It is in the light of the general strategy of the war that we must consider such an event as the loss of Leros, on which I know the House would like me to say a few words. The loss of brave men and of strategic positions of value is grievous and I shall not attempt to minimise that setback in any way, but it must be seen in its proper perspective. The House will remember that the Prime Minister explained that our landing at Salerno, at the extreme range of fighter aircraft, was a hazardous operation. That risk was taken. It was a close run thing, but it succeeded. Similarly, our occupation of Sardinia awl Corsica, beyond the range of fighter protection, involved risks. In war, risks must be run and should be run if commensurate advantages may be obtained, and our actions in the Aegean were undertaken with a two-fold object, first, to help the attack on Italy by causing the Germans to disperse their forces, and, second, to take advantage of those fleeting opportunities which the collapse of Italy brought in its train. Our commanders in the Middle East, within the necessarily restricted limits of the forces at their disposal—for of course our main effort was being directed against Italy—made their plans with this two-fold object in view.
Let us see what the position was in the Aegean in early September. Crete was
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held by 55,000 troops, including 30,000 Germans, while Rhodes, which is the key of the Dodecanese, was held by 9,000 Germans and 40,000 Italians. There were also Germans in the larger islands of the Aegean, but in the Dodecanese, other than in Rhodes and Scarpanto, there were only Italians. Here there was an opportunity to harass the extended Germans and obtain strategic gains of great value. Accordingly, on 9th September when General Alexander's Fifth Army landed in Salerno and Italy made an unconditional surrender to the Allies, General Wilson despatched a small party to Rhodes. Unfortunately, despite their overwhelming numerical strength, the Italians did not respond. They made no effort to deal with the Germans and nothing could be accomplished there.
Attention was then turned to the islands of Cos and Leros, although operations there were, necessarily, carried on well inside the range of the enemy's powers and activities, but the former was important for its air field and the latter as a naval base. Troops and aircraft were ferried in. Let me say that very good work indeed was done by the Royal Navy in running, in the face of heavy disadvantages, these narrow waters between the Middle East and these outposts, and its work was augmented by transport aircraft. The immediate result was to attract the enemy's air resources. First-line aircraft which might have been used against us on the Italian mainland, or in Sardinia, or Corsica, were retained in the Aegean. In fact, some 35 per cent. of the total German air forces in the Mediterranean were contained in the eastern half of that sea and some aircraft are known to have come from the Russian and from the Western fronts. The enemy began at once heavy air attacks on our small air base at Cos where, short of anti-aircraft defences and of room for dispersal, and in the absence of supporting fighters within 300 miles, our aircraft were overborne. On 3rd October, Cos was attacked with great determination by sea-borne and airborne troops in great force and despite a gallant resistance and the infliction of heavy casualties on the enemy the island was lost. Four thousand Italian troops offered no assistance.
In this operation the enemy lost heavily in aircraft, and as I say the diversion had its effect on the fortunes of the Italian

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campaign. We lost only by a narrow margin. A little more time in which to build up our strength might have made all the difference. The weight of the attack brought by the Germans showed their sensitiveness to events in this theatre of war. But the loss of the airfield on Cos seriously affected the defence of Leros and our commanders in the Middle East had now to decide whether or not to continue to try to hold Leros and Samos. Had we evacuated the islands, the Aegean would have been restored to the enemy and he would have been free to switch his forces elsewhere. As it was, our light mobile naval and air forces were harrying his shipping and inflicting losses. With a full knowledge of the risks involved, the commanders-in-chief in the Middle East decided to hold on to the island, and in this they had the full support and approval of the Government. A naval striking force was maintained in the Aegean. Heavy bombers from the Middle East, with support from North-West Africa, continued their attacks on the air forces in Crete, Greece and Rhodes. It was unfortunate that adverse weather conditions prevailed and curtailed to a large extent the effectiveness of these attacks. Their offensive on Leros was begun on 4th October. On 7th October our naval forces found and destroyed six landing craft and two merchant vessels, with a heavy loss of personnel, and air attacks were sub-sequently made on the enemy landing craft and on enemy airfields. Those losses inflicted a toll on the enemy and, in the meantime, reinforcements were put into Leros.
The long-awaited assault came at 6.30 on the morning of 12th November. The British garrison amounted to some 4,000 men and the Italians to about 6,000 men. On 13th November the enemy succeeded in establishing bridgeheads on the east coast, in the north and in the centre of the island. The island consists of two parts connected by a narrow neck in the centre. In the afternoon, parachute troops were dropped on Rachi Ridge, which is in the narrow connecting link. Throughout the day bombing was severe. Long-range fighters, operated from 300 miles away, opposed by enemy short range fighters were unable effectively to interrupt it. During the night of the 12th and 13th more parachute troops were dropped on Rachi and our garrison was cut into two parts. On Sunday, 14th, an attack
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against our troops in the central sector of the island was made by parachute troops from Rachi Ridge. This was beaten off and counter-attacks by our troops in the north and from the south drove the enemy from the high ground and re-established our communications. On Monday our counter-attack was renewed but in the face of unceasing attack from the air it was unsuccessful. That night the enemy succeeded in landing reinforcements. On Tuesday, 16th, attacks developed against our head-quarters with heavy bombs. But the commander then thought if he could get further reinforcements he could hold out. Affairs however deteriorated. The result was that the island fell. The garrison had been fighting incessantly for five days and exposed to concentrated bombing attacks. In the end this produced a weariness, too great to be resisted.
Our troops fought throughout with the utmost courage and gallantry. They inflicted very heavy losses on the enemy and the Navy took a very full toll of any efforts of the enemy to bring in reinforcements. On 14th November alone, three landing craft with German reinforcements were sunk and the enemy casualties were such that for some time the fate of the island hung in the balance. It is estimated that at least 4,000 of their troops were drowned. The British and Greek troops have now been withdrawn from Samos, which, through the loss of Leros, became untenable, and some of the Italian garrison with a portion of the civilian population have also been evacuated. The Germans have now announced the occupation of these islands with their troops. The loss of Leros with its gallant defenders is a matter of profound regret but the operation did contain superior forces at a critical period of our operations for the invasion of Italy.
That inflicted serious losses on the enemy. War has its chances. In this case fortune was against us, but I am certain that had this attempt not been made, we should have been blamed for lack of enterprise in not having tried to exploit a situation which offered great opportunities. The arguments against undertaking operations beyond the range of really effective air cover, were, of course, present in the minds of our commanders and the War Cabinet, but if they were disregarded, it was because other considerations and other hopes were held by us and our advisers.

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In reviewing the war situation, we must not look only to the West. In the Far East also, against Japan, the forces of the British Commonwealth and Empire and the United States have moved to the offensive and in the sea, in the air and on the land commendable successes have been scored against the Japanese. In planning these operations of war there is increasingly close consultation and collaboration between the Allies. While looking back to the past, as we may on the occasion of a Debate on the Address, we can see a great change in our fortunes. We cannot afford to indulge in any illusions as to the magnitude of the task that still faces us. The enemy is still strong and determined. He is energetic and enterprising, and war is full of surprises. We cannot afford to relax for a moment our utmost efforts towards victory. Whether it is the fighting troops, or the workers behind who support the fighting troops, we cannot relax at the present time and this remains always the prime preoccupation of the Government. At the same time, while carrying out this primary task, it is the duty of the Government to see—
Earl Winterton: May I ask my right hon. Friend a question—whether General Sir Maitland Wilson made that curious statement on the authority of the Government, or of his own volition and on his own responsibility?
Mr. Attlee: Certainly, the question of the statement did not come before the War Cabinet. I think he made it on his own responsibility. I was saying, that although the end of the war is not yet, it is the duty of the Government to see to it that, as far as possible, plans shall be made to meet the conditions that will face us when the war in Europe comes to an end. It is a great mistake to suppose that there will be a sudden change from total war to total peace. It may be that the war in the West will end before the war in the East. We cannot tell. We cannot conjecture whether the war will end soon or whether we have still a long way to go. But whatever may be the event, there is bound to be a period of transition, a difficult period of transition, before we can settle down in a peaceful world. It will take a long time before we can overtake the ravages of war and get an orderly
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settlement of world problems. And the world is going to be short of food and consumption goods. Months, if not years, will elapse before those shortages can be made good.
Mr. Kirkwood: You will have to see that they are properly shared out.
Mr. Attlee: My hon. Friend anticipates me. In our country also, just as the complete change-over of industry from peace to war was slow and difficult, so the restoration of industry, the return of the fighters and war-workers to civilian life, is not going to be a short or easy business. I am certain that in a well-ordered and peaceful world mankind can attain in time higher standards of life than have ever been enjoyed before, but the difficulty of the immediate post-war period must be understood, and all the more is it necessary that we should see that we utilise to the full the services of our own people and do not allow the workers to rust in enforced idleness.
World problems are, of course, intimately connected with our own problems at home and our reconstruction has to be undertaken within the framework of world reconstruction. The House heard the week before last from my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary an account of that successful Conference at Moscow. Most important, the nations who march together and particularly the British Empire and Commonwealth, the United States of America and Russia should stand firmly together in war and in peace. The House knows too, that broad questions of world economics and relief and rehabilitation have been under the constant discussion of the Allies. International agreement is essential for the establishment of peace, security and prosperity after the war, and the further we can get with these plans, in the wider sphere, the more certainly shall we be able to plan for our own problems.
The Government have undertaken a special review of the problems of the transition period. During the past years my right hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield (Mr. Greenwood), and my right hon. Friend the Minister without Portfolio, were in charge of reconstruction and did an immense amount of very valuable and preliminary work. Decisions can be and are being taken. Members have been

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critical of my right hon. Friend the Minister without Portfolio—I think unjustly—just because he could not announce decisions on matters which were still under examination and it does take some examination when you are dealing with enormous problems affecting the lives of all our people. I am certain that the work that was done by my two right hon. Friends will bear fruit. Now my Noble Friend Lord Woolton has been appointed Minister of Reconstruction. I am sure he will bring to the task those qualities which have made his tenure in the Ministry of Food so valuable, but it would be a grave mistake to suppose that reconstruction can be handed over to one man or to two men. That is, truly, to misconceive the nature of the problem, though I see that kind of suggestion made in some quarters, and it is not fair to Ministers who deal with reconstruction.
No one man, no one Department, can deal with the wide range of problems involved in the turn-over from war to peace. There cannot be clear-cut spheres between administration in war-time and administration in the transition period. Every Minister must remain primarily responsible for the subject-matter with which his Ministry deals, and the work of the Minister of Reconstruction is to correlate and supplement and not to supersede the work of departmental Ministers. It is his function to see that the plans of Departments are brought into relation with each other and with the general scheme and that there is no overlapping or conflict between them. But as the planning of reconstruction proceeds fresh powers will be needed and new legislation will be required. Some of these matters are already in legislative form, such as the Education Bill and the Bill for the Training and Employment of Disabled Persons. Other legislative proposals may arise in the transition period and from the plans that are being made to ensure employment, food, and homes for the people and to get a smooth transition in industry from war to peace.
Then there is another group of Bills, which will depend on the decisions Of the Government after the House has discussed proposals which will be laid before it. Among these proposals are those for social insurance, a comprehensive health service, workmen's compensation, and the control of the land. I note that there
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are in some quarters suggestions that the Government are taking a long time over the consideration of those projects. I wonder how many Members have sat down and tried to translate these projects into the actual legislative and administrative changes that have to be made. These things are not being done in a vacuum. You have to consider what has been done before. It requires an immense amount of hard work. I was sorry that my right hon. Friend seemed to express some scepticism on this matter. We have been working on these security plans week after week. It is not so easy. All kinds of interests have to be considered—I am not talking of vested interests in the bad sense, but workers' organisations have made all sorts of arrangements, and there are all kinds of State schemes. You cannot just steamroller all these schemes without consideration. I shall never try to steam-roller the Amalgamated Engineering Union, for instance. I shall have to give great consideration to them. The fact that these proposals were brought before the House in the form of a White Paper, and that we have asked the views of the House, is, I think, only reasonable.
My right hon. Friend rather suggested that delays are due to differences of political opinion within the Government. They are due to the intrinsic complications of the subject. You have also to consider the differences of opinion in this House. Opinions are held strongly on both sides. Working under the conditions of a National Government, we endeavour to get the greatest amount of assent. That does not mean that there is any lack of vigour in pressing forward these proposals. I assure my right hon. Friend and the right hon. Gentleman the Member for South-West Bethnal Green (Sir P. Harris) that repeating that kind of statement that the soldiers are all sceptical and think that nothing is to be done, is doing a bad service to the soldiers themselves.
Mr. Pethick-Lawrence: I do not object to the Government laying these proposals, and all that, but do I understand my right hon. Friend to say that during this Session, which is, after all, likely to last another 12 months, specific legislation dealing with some of them, at any rate, is likely to be produced? It does not say that in the King's Speech.
Mr. Attlee: What the King's Speech says is that we shall consider what amount of legislation we shall be able to introduce, following discussion. I think it is quite specific. I am sure that hon. Members will realise that it is one thing to accept general principles, and another thing to work them out in detail. That takes a long time. Any experienced Member who knows the working of the Parliamentary machine, will realise that the present King's Speech will mean a very heavy legislative programme. It was for that reason that I suggested that I should have to reconsider our sittings and our methods, We have a great responsibility to all those who, whether in the Fighting Forces, in industry or in the performance of the manifold tasks which war entails, have saved this nation and civilisation. We must see that the change to a peace-time economy is made with a minimum of friction, that as men and women are released from war service to return to civil life, they will find that they are needed by the community and have their places in society. They will not expect to find things easy in the transition period but they will expect, rightly, to find food, employment and homes available.
Those things I mention not exclusively but to indicate that in the transition period there must be a concentration on essentials, putting first things first. These things may sound only elementary, but I am afraid hundreds of thousands of people in Europe will be seeking with the very greatest difficulty to obtain them in a post-war Europe. I would remind Members of what the Prime Minister said in his Mansion House speech on 9th November:
"I regard it as a definite part of the duty and responsibility of this National Government to have its plans perfected in a vast and practical scheme to make sure that in the years immediately following the war, food, work and homes are found for all. No airy visions, no party doctrines, no party prejudices, no political appetites, no vested interests must stand in the way of the simple duty of providing beforehand for food, work and homes. They must be prepared now during the war. These plans must be prepared and they must come into action just as when war breaks out, general mobilisation is declared. They must come into action as soon as the victory is won."
That is the Government's intention. I believe that all parties in the House will support the Government in getting that intention carried into actuality. It is the
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duty and responsibility of the Government to make the best plans they can. This House will also have its responsibility. Legislation will be necessary. In the proposals which will be brought before the House there are bound to be things which will be disagreeable to some sections. There are bound to be interests, perfectly legitimate interests, which will think themselves hardly used. There are certain to be points where one school of thought will hold that the Government have been too timid and another school of thought will think them too rash, but I believe that a very large portion of the proposals we shall bring before the House will command general agreement. If we take too much time in this House in contending on minor points of difference, we may lose the major things on which we agree. There is always a danger that what some people think the best, may be the enemy of what all people agree to be good. I am not suggesting for a moment that the proposals of the Government cannot be improved by amendment in this House. Indeed I hope that they will be improved by the collective wisdom of the House. But I am quite sure that these things must be approached in a practical and constructive spirit with a firm resolve to get the necessary things through in time, it being realised that it is not possible for any section or party to get everything it requires. It is obvious that measures for the transition period will have their effect on the long-term future and some measures will be designed to take their part in the permanent structure of the country. Here it may be said that it is more difficult to avoid party controversies, but long-term apprehensions should not deter us from doing now these things which are absolutely essential. I am certain that this House, which has shown the world such a remarkable example of a live democracy working for victory, will not, when called upon to make provision for the peace, fall below the standard which it has itself set.
The war is not yet won, but as we draw nearer to victory, the minds of men and women turn more and more to the future and ask "What will our position be when peace comes?" I can, recall very well in 1918 in the trenches in France, asking that same question. I can remember in those days our hopes and our fears. It is the duty of this Govern-

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ment and this House to remove the fears and to satisfy the reasonable hopes of all our fellow citizens who, in the days when extremest peril threatened all we hold dear, added to our history one of its most glorious pages.
Mr. Lipson: As the first back bencher to take part in this Debate, perhaps I. may be allowed to pay tribute to me two back benchers who moved and seconded the Motion. What I would say of those two speeches is that if the Government, in the legislation that they propose to introduce in the coming Session and in their approach to post-war problems, will be imbued with the spirit of both those speeches, not only the House but the country will be well content. I want to make a brief comment on the speech of the Deputy Prime Minister with regard to what he had to say about the incidents in the Dodecanese. I hope that the Government realise that what has happened in Cos and Leros has caused very great concern throughout the country. That concern will still remain, in spite of the explanation that the right hon. Gentleman has given, because the impression that it left, on my mind anyhow, was that it was an attempt to gloss over a failure. It was a story reminiscent of many that we have heard in this war of brave men exposed to very grave danger, showing the gallantry that we would have expected of them, but being called upon to do the impossible. I hope that at long last the lesson has been learned that without proper air cover and protection our men should not be put in positions of that kind again.
I want to deal with two matters referred to in the Gracious Speech, education and housing. I was delighted that there was an announcement to-day that an Education Bill is to be introduced. I hope it means that the Bill will be introduced at a comparatively early date. The country is ready for an education advance, and I hope that advantage will be taken by the Government of the feeling in this matter, to get early action. I cannot agree with the Seconder of the Motion that the Government should introduce their proposals exactly as set out in the White Paper. He told us that negotiations were going on; surely in that case the Government ought to enter into the negotiations with an open mind. If they find as a result that their proposals can be
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improved, I hope that they will improve them. In certain directions the White Paper proposals can be made better. I hope that the Government will not persist in their determination to destroy units of education administration that have been efficient in the past. It would be folly to destroy efficient education bodies in the name of educational advance and to put them under less efficient bodies.
In regard to the vexed question of denominational teaching in schools I hope that the Government will pay proper respect to the conscientious views of those who feel strongly in these matters and if their policy is, as apparently it is, that denominational teaching shall be allowed in schools to those to whom they think it right, they will not make that teaching impossible by putting upon those who run the denominational schools an impossible financial burden. Lastly, I hope that the Government will bear in mind that education is not the only item on which local authorities will be called upon to spend money after the war and that the Exchequer must therefore be prepared to pay a bigger contribution towards the expense of these proposals if the proposals are to be implemented. Otherwise the proposals brought forward, which sound all right on paper, will never be carried out in practice, because the difficulties in the way are too great.
I want to turn to the question of housing. Everybody will agree that decent housing accommodation is one of the most important factors in the health and happiness of the people, but I have to confess that, though the domestic problems of the war have been extremely well handled by the Government for the most part, housing has been one of their failures. At the very outset the Government ought to have controlled by law the sale of all houses below, say, £1,000 in value. Instead, they let the speculators get to work and buy those houses for the sake of profit and create inflated values. The consequences have been serious, and they are likely to have an effect in the post-war period. In my area the speculators have been allowed to be all too busy. People who may not have wanted to sell their houses have been tempted to do so because of the prices offered, and speculators have offered fantastic figures. Within a few days they have been able to sell again for a few hundred pounds profit. We have heard

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a great deal of the high wages that a limited number of workers have been able to get in munition factories, but we must remember that in order to get those wages the men have had to work very long hours, and that they have to pay Income Tax on their earnings. The speculators I have mentioned make no contribution to the war effort but do a great deal of injury to it by trading on the scarcity of houses, yet they pay no Income Tax on the profits of their speculation. This sort of thing has created very bad feeling.
Another evil which has caused much feeling has been the rent charged for so-called furnished houses. I would make a comparison between the way in which the problem has been tackled by the Secretary of State for Scotland and by the former Minister of Health. The Secretary of State for Scotland has introduced legislation to set up local tribunals who know what would be a reasonable rent for such places, and I think that will be an effective way of dealing with the matter. In England there is exactly the same problem, but the former Minister of Health only appointed a Committee, or at any rate said he would do so. I do not think he has got any further than appointing the Chairman, and I do not think the members have actually been appointed. As there is the same problem to deal with in both countries, there ought to be some kind of co-ordination between the two Ministers. In Scotland this evil is being effectively dealt with by one Minister, whereas in England we are being continually put off by procrastinating methods. The local authorities have been given certain powers by the Government to deal with excessive charges for furnished lettings, but the answer of the local authorities is that in practice they are unable to obtain a conviction because of the way in which the Regulations are worded. Many local authorities, my own among them, are refusing to take any further action because they have taken cases to the courts in which, obviously, there has been overcharging, but because of the technical phrasing of the Regulation the magistrates, quite properly, because they have their duty to administer the law, have been unable to register any convictions, and the Authority have just given up the struggle.
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I am dealing with the houses that are there, but the real need is that more houses ought to be built even during the war. I want to give some reason why in my own constituency at least—and it applies elsewhere—this should be done. The position at present is that when a house becomes vacant for any reason it can be requisitioned easily by the local authority for people who come from away—workers directed there by the Ministry of Labour. The procedure is simple, requisitioning can take place, and these people from away can be given the house, but there are local people living under terrible conditions. I have examples here from my own constituency of a man and his wife and three children, for whom the accommodation consists of two rooms on the third floor, water on the ground floor, no sink in flat or W.C.; of a man, his wife and four children aged eight, five, one-and-a-half, and six months, accommodation two rooms and scullery in basement, condemned by the local health committee, three children bronchial and fourth suffering from heart trouble; a man, wife and four child, boys 16, 14 and girl 8, accommodation two rooms, sharing cooking and sanitary conveniences with another family, rooms very small, bedroom too small to hold sufficient beds for the family. I have a list which has been drawn up by my own local authority of some of the urgent cases with which they have to deal. These cases exist in one of England's loveliest towns which is called the garden city of England.
When a house becomes vacant it is at once requisitioned for somebody from away. Naturally, it is asked, why should there not be the same requisitioning powers to meet local needs? The local authorities say that their present requisitioning powers for this purpose are no use to them at all and not worth the paper on which they are written. I asked the former Minister of Health whether he would make the requisitioning conditions the same whether for someone from away or for local needs, so that there might be a 50–50 or some such kind of arrangement, but he refused a reasonable request like that. I am concerned about what will happen when the men come back from the front—because many of the people living under these conditions are the wives and children of the fighting men—when they find the housing conditions under

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which their families are living. It is all very well to talk about reconstruction and post-war action, but there are some immediate problems to which we ought to face up, and there are some conditions that we ought really to tackle even now.
I would urge on the Government, even at this late hour, to make up their minds that there should be a limited amount of building by local authorities during the war, even if it is only of a temporary kind, to meet urgent needs. If things are allowed to go on as they are, you will have in what you call the transitional period immediately after the war—which everybody realises is bound to be a very difficult period—a great opportunity for the agitator and the demagogue to work upon these people, with disastrous results for all concerned. All local authorities realise that in their own areas a certain amount of building is necessary during the war in the interests of common humanity and decency, and in fairness to the men who are fighting our battles all over the world, so that their wives and children may have at least reasonable conditions in which to live.
My final point with regard to the housing problem is this: I do not think it is enough for the Government to have told local authorities that they should take powers to acquire land at pre-war prices for one year's building after the war. Speculators are busy. They say, "Let the local authorities get their land for one year. We will look to the years afterwards." They are buying up land all over the country, and with this speculation going on and an increase in the cost of building I do not see how the Government's housing proposals are likely to be carried out. We are told that 4,000,000 houses are to be built. I would like to have an assurance that there is to be prefabrication on a large scale. It is the only way to meet the urgent need. We all want to see a long-term programme sketched out, but in the meantime people have to live and be housed in proper conditions. The housing problem is one of the most urgent the Government ought to face up to during the war. I am grateful for the opportunity of putting this case. Living as I do among my own constituents and knowing the conditions under which they live, I know they feel that they would like the House of Commons to be acquainted with the facts. The conditions
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I have described do not apply only to my constituency; I believe they are general in other parts, and one can do a service by drawing attention to them in this way. There is no doubt that people who are allowed to take advantage of the nation's needs are doing a great deal of harm to public morale. One hopes that after the war there will be a juster and fairer system. At present it is not the men and women who are rendering the greatest service to the community who are getting the best rewards. There is something wrong with that, and I hope that that is one of the things we shall try to put right in the new era which we all hope is to come about.
Mr. Barr: I lament very much one omission from the King's Gracious Speech. I should like to have seen in it some promise of a definite improvement in old age pensions, in regard to both the basic rate and supplementary allowances. I know that the present Chancellor of the Exchequer has stated that we must wait and see how things turn out at the end of the war. I have only one answer to give the Government. I state it in the words of a great philosopher whom I studied at college, Immanuel Kant:
"Thou oughtest, therefore thou canst."
I rose particularly to refer to a question which is giving a good deal of anxiety in Scotland, and I am sure also in England, the question of temperance in some of its aspects. I have raised the question of the supply of geneva, or gin, to the Gold Coast before. It is not so long ago since the Secretary of State for the Colonies, when asked whether gin was good for the moral, spiritual and material welfare of the natives, said he occasionally took gin himself without any danger either to his moral, spiritual or material welfare. I cannot think that he was altogether speaking for the Government in that regard, because I find that for many years, to those who were going abroad to the Colonies, and particularly to West Africa, they issued a pamphlet in which they said: "Remember that alcohol is not a necessity in West Africa, except when given medically. Pay no attention to what you may hear to the contrary while you are on your voyage to that Coast." You might translate and apply that and say: "Pay no attention to what you hear from the Front Bench

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on this subject in the House of Commons." I recall that when the Governor of the Gold Coast instituted a Commission of Inquiry in 1929, important evidence was submitted as to the excesses which obtain at times among the natives. They had this testimony given by the Bishop of Accra, who submitted to the Commission his letter to The Times on 28th March, 1929, about funeral orgies:
"For a week at a time every man and woman, and not a few of the children, are drunk, some in a torpid state and some in a raving condition. This is the kind of scene which burns itself into one's soul."
The Roman Catholic Fathers in the area gave evidence that there were these excesses not only at funerals but at festivals and among Chiefs and Judges after sitting in their Tribunals. The Church Council, for the Protestant Churches, gave evidence that they regarded this traffic in geneva and gin with the natives as "morally indefensible," and said it was "an evil fraught with great danger to the community." These excesses are still going on, as I have been assured by the Rev. M. B. Taylor, Superintendent of the Gold Coast Methodist Mission, and now honorary member of the Legislative Council. He sums up his conclusions in these words:
"Finally, I am of opinion that the trend of official and public opinion is for the present surging away from the attitude adopted by the Government and shown in the 10 per cent. reduction, and that if we are not careful we shall lose all the ground that has been gained."
I would say to the Government that if they are not careful about taking drastic action in this matter, we will lose much of the ground we have gained. I am thinking of the future of our Colonies. Is there to be continued exploitation, and profit making? Is that our idea about the Colonies? Have we not some higher ideals than that? Are we to have a new system of trading with our Colonies? I hope we will. If we look at the past history of the liquor trade in regard to the Colonies and the natives, it is War and not Trade.
I pass from that to the home front. There is not time to go into various systems of controlling the liquor traffic. I might have addressed myself, if time permitted, first to the Carlisle Scheme. I would only say in regard to it that the advocates of that scheme have much that
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they can praise in the early efforts of the scheme. On the other hand, they have to explain this fact. I have been through the lists for every year since the scheme was instituted, and have found that in every year Carlisle takes a place lower than half way down the list of county boroughs ranged according to those which had fewest convictions for drunkenness. In one year it reached 50th place, but in the last two reports I have seen it occupied the 67th and 61st places out of 85 boroughs.
I see that there is an agitation at present for the national ownership of the liquor traffic, but under it there is to be "no such concession as local option." We have had a good experiment for over 20 years in local option, and in "No Licence "and" Restriction." While it is not by any means quite all that we would have wished, it has some fine results to its credit. I take one town in my native Ayrshire, that of Stewarton. In 1923 it carried No Licence, as it had done before. In 1926, the "Daily Mail" came into the district and sought to work up an agitation against it, but received a crushing reply from the Provost of the town. His reply was to the effect that when a new vote had been called for in 1923 to overturn "no licence," the request was signed by no medical man, no teacher, no banker, no lawyer and no minister of religion; and that there were at least 100 convictions a year before "No Licence" came in, but that in the last year of "No Licence" (1925) there was not a single conviction for drunkenness. The Provost's report concluded:
"We place these facts before the "Daily Mail," and contend that the benefits which come to this town through being dry are greater than can be described by any words in the English language."
Needless to say it was carried again by the largest majority that had been known.
Looking forward to the future and the new world that is to be, it is remarkable to me that this subject is hardly ever mentioned, although I venture to say it should occupy a prime place among those changes that will bring new conditions, for the liquor traffic, unless we stay it altogether, will corrupt the best social system we can set up, it will poison the communal life at its source, it will besmirch our noblest ideals, it will turn our rising sun into darkness and eclipse for us our new millenial dawn. I am not

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putting forward this plan or that plan, but I should like to see a changed attitude on the part of many in this House. I should like to recall some of the old testimonies that we had from the great statesmen of the past. Here is one from Daniel O'Connell, and I do not need to tell the Members of this House that Benjamin Disraeli said of Daniel O'Connell that he was "the greatest public orator that ever existed." He was an assiduous teetotaller, devoted to this cause, and here is his last public utterance, made on the 22nd April, 1846:
"Next to religion temperance is the greatest blessing God can confer upon mankind. There is no vice which it does not discourage; there is no virtue which it does not foster."
Without recalling or detailing the very drastic action that has been taken by our great ally, Russia, in this regard, I would put forward and endorse two remarkable pronouncements of Lenin. This is one:
"Vodka and other opiates will lead us back to capitalism, not forward to socialism."
And this is the other:
"The proletariat is an ascending class. It needs alcohol neither as a narcotic nor a stimulant."
Lest it should be thought that I am in any way too critical, I want to mention some of the things that give me satisfaction and hope in what has happened, particularly in Scotland, but also in England. Owing to the action taken by the Secretary of State for Scotland under Defence Regulation 42D we have virtually eliminated the bona fide traveller, as he has been long ago eliminated in England. I find that 24 out of the 33 counties in Scotland are now under this Regulation, and while it is a war measure I venture to say that the bona fide traveller has gone out never to return, even with the return of peace, and he has gone out "unwept, unhonoured and unsung." I am also grateful for the action taken by the Secretary of State for Scotland, by the Home Secretary, and by the heads of other Departments in regard to wet canteens when they brought in regulations one of which was that no profit was to accrue from these canteens. The result is that there are only 15 wet canteens in the whole of Scotland, and I am grateful to the Secretary of State for Scotland and to those who steered a similar course for England.
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That brings me not quite to the end of what I have to say, but to my last topic. Regarding the increase in drinking, or the alleged increase in drinking among young lads and girls, I thought to dispose of this question, or of any argument regarding it, by approaching the Salvation Army, and I found that there had been investigations touching 50 towns and villages, large and small. This is a summary of the results of the Salvation Army's investigations. There was a considerable amount of treating of young women and girls by men in the Forces. It was also found that girls far below the age of 18 were being served with liquor. In one public house it was found that two girls of 14 years of age had been served with liquor on the same evening. I have evidence from a member of the staff in Glasgow of the church with which I am connected, of great disorder on a bus where the conductress came down from the top to say that there were two drunken men upstairs. She could easily manage them, but she could not manage the crowd of young girls, ostensibly of the age of 16, who were the worse for drink. The Secretary of State for Scotland and the Home Secretary have taken commendable action in this regard, and with the aid of the trade, they have had notices put up in public houses warning against the purchasing of liquor for young people under 18 years of age. I think the wording is the same in the notice put out by the Home Secretary and in that by the Secretary of State for Scotland. The wording says:
"It is an offence for any person under the age of 18 to buy or attempt to buy excisable liquor for his or her consumption in this bar. It is also an offence for anyone to buy or attempt to buy excisable liquor for consumption by a person under the age of 18 in this bar, and may we ask the co-operation of our customers …"
and so on. That is the position, and I am grateful both to the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Home Secretary who are keeping a watch on this subject. They have effectively dealt with the treating of young people, boys and girls, under the age of 18. I wonder whether they could not carry it a little further and perhaps think of raising the age possibly to 21 and apply it both to England and to Scotland.
To the defence of the young men and maidens of this land we are called by the highest literary appeals. In his Common-

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Place Book, in the year 1785, Robert Burns made an appeal to any young man
"on the vestibule of the world, who shall throw his eye over my pages, to pay heed to the fruit of a poor devil's dear-bought experience to shun my example in this regard and to begin keeping up a regular, warm intercourse with the Deity."
That is why one of his greatest poems has this verse:
"O Man! while in thy early years,
How prodigal of time!
Mis-spending all thy precious hours,
Thy glorious youthful prime!
Alternate Follies take the sway;
Licentious Passions burn;
Which tenfold force gives Nature's law
That man was made to mourn."
In another of his very greatest poems, his appeal on behalf of innocent maidenhood is still more impressive. As I read it to-day, in the circumstances to which I have only distantly alluded, I would ask Members to remember that sobriety is the prime guardian of virtue:
"Is there, in human form, that bears a heart,
A wretch! a villain! lost to love and truth!
That can, with studied, sly, ensnaring art
Betray sweet Jenny's unsuspecting youth?
Curse on his perjur'd arts! dissembling smooth,
Are honour, virtue, conscience all exil'd? Is there no pity, no relenting ruth, Points to the parents fondling o'er their child?
Then points the ruined maid, and their distraction wild."
In the closing verses of that great poem, the "Cottar's Saturday Night," he reaches, I would say, the purest, noblest patriotism ever penned in any country:
"Oh Scotia! my dear, my native soil! For whom my warmest wish to Heaven is sent,
Long may thy hardy sons of rustic toil
Be blest with health, and peace, and sweet content!
And O! may Heaven their simple lives prevent
From luxury's contagion, weak and vile!
Then, howe'er crowns and coronets be rent,
A virtuous populace may rise the while,
And stand a wall of fire around their much-loved isle!"
Mr. Tinker: Whenever I listen to the reverend Gentleman I always feel impressed by his sincerity and his determination to bring before the House of Commons the evils of drink. Whenever he addresses the House, it is about old age pensioners or the evils of drink, and
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he grips everybody by his earnestness. I must congratulate the Mover and the Seconder of the Motion. The Mover was the right choice for the task, but I was particularly interested in the Seconder. I was glad that the Government had, for the first time in a long while, recognised the mining industry. The hon. Member for Hemsworth (Mr. G. Griffiths) is a typical miner. I hope the House will recognise the present position in the coalfields. The King's Speech refers to mining in a vague sort of way. At the moment there is terrible unrest in the coalfields, and we recognise that unless the Government are prepared to do something quickly there may be further trouble. Our members in the coalfields are waiting anxiously for the result of the conference that will take place on Thursday and Friday of this week. I am very much afraid that unless the Government exert some pressure to improve conditions in the mining industry, we shall not be able to hold the men at work.
It is very hard to say this in time of war. The miners' leaders are doing all that they can to impress upon their people the necessity for keeping at work, but I am of the opinion that unless some better offer is made by the Government than that which was outlined by the Minister of Fuel and Power, it will be difficult for us to prevent further trouble in the coalfields. I hope that attention will be given to this matter. It is no use hon. Members saying here that people ought to keep on working. We who represent the coalfields know the trouble that is happening there. I trust that before the end of the week the Minister of Fuel and Power will pay more respect to the appeal made to him by the Miners' Federation and will go some way towards alleviating the trouble.
I want now to mention a point which arose before the end of last Session. I think it was on 2nd November that a Petition was presented by the hon. Member for Bridgeton (Mr. Maxton) signed by 4,000,000 old age pensioners. Controversy arose whether the signatories could present the Petition at the Bar of the House of Commons. I always understood that the Bill of Rights, passed over 300 years ago, gave to any member of the community the right of approach to His Majesty, and it meant that they could, if sufficient numbers of them signed a Petition, present the

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Petition at the Bar of the House of Commons. That matter has fallen into disuse, and consequently it is very hard now to get it revived. I am asking the Government to recognise the rights of democracy. If a certain number of people feel so aggrieved on any point that they present a huge Petition to the House of Commons, they ought to have the opportunity of coming to the Bar to let us know exactly how they feel about it. I am on the Select Committee which deals with Petitions, and I was expecting this Petition to be relegated to us to find out what mode of procedure should be adopted by which the attention of the House could be directed to it. Strange to say, nothing has yet come to us, although we have sat since that time. I am of the opinion that the Government are not attending to this important matter, and I want to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who is here representing the Government, to examine the point and at least to allow the matter to go to the Select Committee on Petitions to see by what means the ancient right belonging to our people can be revived.
What did this Petition mean? It was an appeal from a vast number of people for the recognition of what they claimed to be the right to an increase in their pensions. The Petition asked for 30s. a week for every individual in the country. Something ought to be done by way of putting that suggestion into operation. In order to prove the case to the House of Commons, I want to examine the overlapping system that is in operation in relation to pensions. If there was a new basis for old age pensions, it would do away with this sort of thing. At the present time old persons are maintained on public assistance when not eligible for pension, by contributory old age pensions administered by the Ministry of Health and by non-contributory pensions under the Customs and Excise, and these three bodies administer a sort of means test. The man under 70, not a contributory pensioner, who appeals for public assistance is submitted to a means test, and if anything is granted to him, members of his family have to contribute towards it. When he reaches the age of 70 he has again to be examined by a means test committee to see whether he is entitled to pension, and, if his claim is admitted, he has the right to claim a supplementary pension, and again he is examined by
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another body to see whether his means entitles him to a supplementary pension.
All these bodies have to be maintained by the State, and I claim that under one system—the giving of a statutory pension of 30s. a week to everybody—it would do away with all these subsidiary bodies. I have heard it argued that the State could not bear the cost of granting a pension of 30s. to everybody. It would cost a tremendous sum of money, but if it were established, it would do away with the existing system of the means test. Members of Parliament and millionaires or whoever they might be would have the right to a pension of 30s. a week on reaching the age of 60. It may be said that that would be a new thing in our legislation, but I would remind the House that Beveridge has already outlined the idea in his scheme for a certain class of people. Beveridge claims that anybody with children, whether a millionaire or a lord, or whoever he may be, can claim benefit if a child is under working age. Therefore there is nothing outrageous in advocating the same principle in a scheme for old age pensions. If the cost is said to be too excessive, I want to prove how the scheme could be worked out in another way. All taxation now is largely met by the Income Tax payments. If we gave 30s. a week to everybody and did away with the means test, a man would have to put the amount on his Income Tax paper, and many would have to pay back a large proportion of the 30s. The Chancellor of the Exchequer does not seem to approve of that, but I can assure him that it is one of the things that will have to go forward before very long. I want to read a quotation taken from some papers. It reads as follows:
"We have therefore been irresistibly forced to advocate that the means limit be abolished altogether, and that the old age pension he given to all citizens. We are of the opinion that no other course will remove the very serious objections to the present system."
This is an extract from the Report of the Departmental Committee on Old Age Pensions, issued in 1919. It was recognised even then that what is called the means test would have to be abolished. The State recognise the position of every man over a certain age being entitled to an old age pension. I ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Government to be bold enough to embrace the scheme outlined by these old age pensioners.

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These old people are a growing force in the country, and if an election was imminent and Members were wondering how votes would be cast, there would be few who would not admit that the demands of the old age pensioners are worthy of consideration. I would pledge myself on their behalf on any platform. So I am taking the opportunity to-day, in dealing with the King's Speech, to advocate that the House should do something immediately for these people. Remove the means test. It is a bugbear to everybody. Thrifty people who have saved money have to disclose all they have to other people. We used to advocate thrift. Now we are saying, "It is your fault for having been thrifty." People say to me, "I should have been far better off if I had spent my money as I earned it. Instead, I have scraped and saved, and I now have a few hundred pounds. Another man who has not been so careful can claim benefit from the State while I have to spend what I have before I have any such-right." That is not a fair position, and so I ask the House of Commons to give attention to everybody. If taxation is required to meet it, then the money which has been paid to some will have to be paid back.
Commander Prior: As I have to return to duty in a short while, I trust the House will forgive me if I speak now for a few moments. In His Majesty's Most Gracious Speech reference is made to our growing offensive in all theatres of war. In the Mediterranean we have seized and ousted the enemy from three great strategic islands. The Deputy Prime Minister spoke to us about our operations in the Aegean, where we have suffered a small reverse. He explained to us that our garrisons inflicted great damage on the enemy. It is the duty of the Armed Forces to seek out the enemy and destroy him wherever he is to be found and I sincerely trust that the House and the Government will not pay too much attention to criticism. Defences must fail sometimes. In war, all operations are not always successful. It is only by an offensive spirit we can win the war and it is only by attacking the enemy where we can bring him to fight and by destroying him that we can hope for victory. I trust the Government will continue in their offensive spirit and will allow us to seek out the enemy and de-
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stroy him in the interests of our country, and of all suffering humanity. I trust that we may be able to continue, because all of us in the assault forces are looking forward to the day when we shall engage the enemy and bring him to action wherever he is to be found.
Mr. Sexton: I should like, first, to add my tribute and congratulations to the Mover and Seconder of the Address. This is the annual occasion when we have before us the King's Speech or, in other words, the Government's programme for the coming Session. The King's Speech is, as it ought to be, a charter. This is the age of charters, but to-day we are coming down to our own immediate programme, not entirely domestic, because part of the Speech refers to the progress of the war. During the past week I have addressed three public meetings, two in agricultural areas and one in a mining area. I read in the King's Speech that the captive peoples of Europe are everywhere preparing to throw off the yoke of the oppressor and we should continue to afford them such help and encouragement as lies in our power. When I read those words I wonder if we are encouraging them to the height of our power, because my experience during the last week has led me to believe that there is a popular suspicion that the big bosses of Fascism are being too timidly and tenderly handled—so much so that many consider that the Kaiser vanishing trick is going to be repeated. People point to Mussolini, Badoglio, Victor Emmanuel and now to that carbon copy of the Duce, Mosley, as instances of the Government's tenderness. Mussolini has slipped away and Badoglio and Victor Emmanuel, by a death-bed repentance, seem to have gained a reprieve, while Mosley has been released from internment. All these events may jeopardise the production of arms and munitions and the fighting forces may suffer owing to bewilderment. It requires some more definite assurance on the part of the Government to convince the public of their determination to extirpate the foul disease of Fascism.
Comparisons are odious, but they are also necessary. It is no good closing our eyes to the fact that comparisons are being made between the treatment of those who imposed this terrible conflict on democracy, and that meted out to the de-

65
fenders of the faith. The rights of the common man seem to be giving way to the privileges of the uncommon usurpers of liberty. Look at the tender treatment of Mosley and compare it with the incarceration of British prisoners of war, many of whom have been handed over to the Nazis by the Fascists of Italy. Examine the cases of our wounded warriors in the North African hospitals suffering not only physical injury caused by Mosley's friends, but the indignity of having 2d. per day docked off their allowances when they go to hospital. I hold in my hand a detailed statement of the credits and debits of a Weardale boy, the son of a widow, which records the callousness of the British Army Regulations because this boy was debited 2d. for dying too late. Had he died earlier, before he was admitted to hospital, he would have received the full allowance on the credit side of 4d. Because he was carried to hospital and died there he was debited 2d. of that amount. I repeat that all is not well in the country among the people when they look at what I have called this tender treatment of our enemies.
I come to the domestic side of the King's Speech. We have some very timid and woolly assertions of what is to be done. It is true that we have had evidence to-day, and I welcome it, of something definite in the programme of the King's Speech. I refer to rehabilitation, mentioned by the Minister of Labour, and the Education Bill, mentioned by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Education. On the side of social reform, there is no doubt that in the country the word "Beveridge" was the synonym of hope, but I am very much afraid that the synonym of the Government is faint heart. A great writer tells us: "It is folly to entrust a great deed to a faint heart." We hope that the Government will show a stouter front towards these problems of social reform. I notice in the King's Speech that
"the devoted and untiring effort of My peoples throughout the Commonwealth and Empire"
have helped in the mounting scale of our offensive. That includes the women and girls of this country. They are not specified separately as a sex, but they are included in the compliment. We have, however, women and girls who are not being paid the rate for the job they are doing. I welcome the fact that the Min-
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ister of Labour has introduced that principle. I know that if the head of the State is a ruling Queen, she receives the same emoluments as a ruling King. I know that a woman Parliamentary Secretary receives the same rate as a man Parliamentary Secretary. I also note that when places are advertised by public authorities in the law and in medicine the salary is the same for either sex. Coming down to the munition workers, we now have established the rate for the job. In between what I may term the higher and the lower, we have the Civil Service and the teaching profession, where women who are doing the same job as men are being forced to do it at less money than they ought to be receiving. In my own profession, the teaching profession, we have examples now, during the war, of women teachers taking the place of men teachers who are serving in His Majesty's Forces, and as heads of schools they are receiving less in emoluments than male assistant teachers on the same staff. What we should like is that the rate for the job should be paid not only to the queens of the land, not only to the queens of mumtions, but also to those other queens who are serving their country in other spheres.
The Prime Minister, speaking at the Mansion House, referred to food and clothes and homes. In the Gracious Speech those words are emphasised. It is said that in the transition period we must supply all the members of the community with these three. I hope that that is only the minimum, because kindly owners of slaves in times past provided them with food, clothes and homes, and we provide food, clothes and a home for convicts. I think we must stake a claim for something else, call it what you will—liberty, education, chances of culture, chances of recreation. All these must be added, so that the people in this country will be kept not only like beasts of burden, being given food and shelter, but have something else. I have referred to education, which is also mentioned in the Gracious Speech, and I again emphasise my pleasure that the Parliamentary Secretary has given notice of an early Bill. Then I notice in the Gracious Speech something of immediate—the word "immediate" is used—importance, and that is the rehabilitation of the men and women who come back from the Forces maimed, injured or sick, and not

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only from the Forces but from Civil Defence. In my constituency recently I had an example of a young man, 28 years of age, married, and with one child, who had been shot through the arm in North Africa. For weeks he was signing on at the employment exchange. The more immediately this rehabilitation of returned warriors is effected the better. In regard to mining, I notice in the Gracious Speech the words:
"smooth transition from war to peace."
Those are very vague words indeed. I hope they do not mean a return to the pre-war status in the mining industry, or the other great industry of agriculture. The miners, the farmers and the agricultural workers are worth a great deal more than they were valued at before the war. I hope the smooth transition does not merely mean a return to the status quo.
Then it is also stated in the Gracious Speech that special powers are to be given for the re-development of areas which need to be planned. I have very vivid recollections of 1933, 1934, 1935 and up to about 1937 in my own area. I know that there are other areas equally hard hit. I represent that part of Durham which was known in the special areas as South-west Durham. Between the two wars 12 mines were closed down in my district, and we had the men and the women eating out their hearts because of unemployment. And so I hope that these special powers are going to rehabilitate these special areas, and I hope that the newer industries, in addition to the heavy
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industries for which we are noted in County Durham, are going to be provided so that the people who live there will not have to go through the same again.
In conclusion, I welcome the specific recommendations that are laid down in the Speech. I deplore all the woolliness that is there as well. I hope that the Government and the country will realise that after this war the workers do not intend to go back again to where they were before the war. I hope the Government will realise that the workers deserve something better for all that they have gone through and are going through now, and with these words, Mr. Speaker, I wish Godspeed to all the real construction in the King's Speech.
Ordered, That the Debate be now adjourned."—[Mr. James Stuart.]
Debate to be resumed upon the next Sitting Day.

SECRET SESSION
Notice taken, that Strangers were present.
Whereupon Mr. SPEAKER, pursuant to Standing Order No. 89, put the Question, "That Strangers be ordered to withdraw."
Question agreed to.
Strangers withdrew accordingly.
[The remainder of the Sitting was in Secret Session.]

FOOD SUPPLIES
  Agricultural Workers (Rations)
  Agricultural Workers (Rations)
  Distribution Costs
  Distribution Costs

THE KING'S SPEECH.
The KING being seated on the Throne, and the Commons being at the Bar with their Speaker, His Majesty was pleased to make a most gracious Speech to both Houses of Parliament, and then retired.
His Majesty's Speech was as follows:
"My Lords and Members of the House of Commons,
"In the fourth year of war the Forces of the United Nations assumed the offensive in all theatres of war. The enemy has been cast out of Africa; freedom has been brought to Sicily, Sardinia and Corsica; and in Italy my Forces and those of my American Ally are now engaging the enemy on the mainland of Europe. On his eastern front the enemy has given ground before the massive and unrelenting advance of the Russian Armies, whose magnificent achievements we have watched with ever-deepening admiration. The captive peoples of Europe are everywhere preparing to throw off the yoke of the oppressor; and we shall continue to afford them such help and encouragement as lies in our power. On the frontier of India and in the Pacific, Japanese aggression has been halted, and the Forces of the United Nations are now moving to the offensive. At sea my Navies and those
2
of our Allies continue to maintain their mastery over the enemy, and important successes have been won in the struggle against the enemy's U-boats. The Air Forces of the United Nations have maintained their ascendancy in all theatres of war, and have increased the weight of their blows at the enemy's heart.
"The mounting scale of our offensive is the fruit of the devoted and untiring efforts of my peoples throughout the Commonwealth and Empire; and in the coming year we shall, with God's help, be able to bring to bear upon the enemy a still greater weight of attack. With the growing help of our great American Ally, and together with the other United Nations, we shall go forward with confidence in our cause until we have delivered the peoples of the world from the fear of the aggressor.
"My Government, taking counsel with my Allies and building upon the foundations laid at the recent Conference in Moscow, will devote continuous attention to the study of plans for the future settlement of Europe.
"Members of the House of Commons,
"You will be asked to make further financial provision for the conduct of the war and for the other necessary services.
"My Lords and Members of the House of Commons,
"My Government will continue to concentrate their powers and energies

3
upon the prosecution of the war; and, until final victory is won, that will be their primary task. You will be invited to pass such further legislation as may be necessary to provide for the needs of the war and to meet abnormal conditions arising from the war.
"At the same time my Ministers are resolved that, so far as the future can be foreseen, they shall be ready to meet the different tasks that await them when victory has been won. They have undertaken a special review of the problems which are likely to arise as hostilities in Europe come to an end and of the adjustments which will have to be made when we turn to prosecute with fresh vigour the war against Japan; and in the months to come my Ministers will complete their provisional plans for the period of transition through which we must pass before the troubled times of war give place to settled conditions of peace. It will be the primary aim of my Government to ensure that in this period food, homes and employment are provided for my people, that good progress is made with the rebuilding of our damaged cities, and that in industry, mining and agriculture a smooth transition is made from war to peace. For some of these purposes fresh powers will be needed; and, as the preparations proceed, proposals for the necessary legislation will be laid before you. You will, in the immediate future, be asked to make provision for the training and employment of disabled persons, and to amend the law regarding the reinstatement in their civil employment of persons discharged from the Armed Forces.
"In certain fields it is already possible to look beyond the transitional period and to frame proposals for social reforms designed to confer lasting benefits on my people.
"A measure embodying my Government's proposals for the reconstruction of the national system of education in England and Wales will be laid before you. An Advisory Council is now preparing reports which are expected to form the basis for educational developments in Scotland.
"My Ministers will present to you their views and proposals regarding an enlarged and unified system of social
4
insurance, a comprehensive health service and a new scheme of workmen's compensation; and they will decide, in the light of your discussions, what specific proposals for legislation on these matters can be brought forward at this stage.
"You will be invited to pass legislation conferring special powers for the redevelopment of areas which, by reason of enemy action, overcrowding or otherwise, need to be replanned as a whole.
"My Government will lay before you the results of their examination of the Reports which have been made recommending the assumption of further powers to control and direct the use of the land of Great Britain.
"It is the desire of my Government that full consideration should be given to various proposals which have been put forward for changes in the existing franchise law, and you will be invited to give your early attention to this question.
"My Ministers will maintain and develop the measures for promoting the health and well-being of my people which, by God's providence, have been so successful during the past four years of war.
"I pray that the Almighty may give His blessing to your counsels."
House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed, The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.

LIST OF THE LORDS TEMPORAL.
GARTER KING OF ARMS attending, delivered at the Table (in the usual manner) a List of the Lords Temporal in the Ninth Session of the Thirty-seventh Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland: The same was ordered to lie on the Table.
The Lord Gainford—Sat first in Parliament after the death of his father.

SELECT VESTRIES.
Bill, pro forma, read 1a.
ADDRESS IN REPLY TO HIS MAJESTY'S MOST GRACIOUS SPEECH.
The King's Speech reported by The LORD CHANCELLOR.
VISCOUNT COWDRAY: My Lords, I beg to move that an humble Address be presented to His Majesty in reply to the gracious Speech from the Throne. I greatly appreciate the honour which my noble friend the Leader of the House has done me in inviting me to move this Motion, but I would not be disclosing the whole truth were I not to admit that his invitation caused me also considerable trepidation. My task is, however, easier inasmuch as after such a long series of victories without any major setbacks the question whether His Majesty's Government are running the war efficiently is no longer a matter of controversy. Nothing succeeds like success, so the prestige of the Government is rightly very high. At the same time we must always remember that these successes could not have been achieved without the great courage and endurance of all the men of His Majesty's Armed Forces, which have never been lacking in good times and in bad.
There is, however, a certain impatience in the country. This is no doubt primarily due to the fact that whereas not much more than a year ago we were almost surprised if we were not retreating everywhere at a rapid pace, now we are equally surprised if we are not advancing just as rapidly. But it appears to those of us who are not in a position to know all the facts that the rate of advance in Italy is unaccountably slow and I have seen it aptly described as "inching forward." Assuming that we are there employing only a relatively small number of American and British divisions, we wonder what the rest of the Allied divisions are doing, and we wonder, too, what is happening to the Ninth Army, and whether that mystery Army is perhaps only a ghost after all. Certainly the few units that I happen to know as members of it find it hard to understand why they, fully trained and battle experienced as they are, are not allowed to show their worth. And one sometimes wonders as well what has been going on in the Dodecanese, and whether it was right to sacrifice our gallant troops at Cos and Leros to a seemingly hopeless cause.
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These apparent shortcomings are no doubt exaggerated by the stupendous pace and success of the great offensive of our brave Russian Allies, who have fought so magnificently for over two years. At the same time, in fairness to ourselves, it must be remembered that their success must have been considerably influenced by the vast quantities of materials that have been supplied to them by the Americans and ourselves, and carried to them by the ships of the Royal Navy, the Merchant Navy and, no doubt, the American Navy. Most of us would like to know the answer to all these things, but we must abide in patience, for whatever we say now cannot affect the plans for the immediate future, which must be already laid and, doubtless, are already in progress. So I for one am content to continue my trust in His Majesty's Government under their great leader the Prime Minister, in the sure hope that before long all our doubts will be thrown to the four winds by the news of another great offensive operation, as they were at the time of the North African landings.
It is fitting that the most gracious Speech should lay considerable emphasis on post-war affairs, because the country is most determined not to be unprepared for the peace as it was unprepared for the war; and so, whilst we must always remember that the winning of the war is our first and overriding interest, we are entitled, nay it is our duty, to turn our thoughts for a time to post-war affairs, both at home and abroad. Two substantial milestones have recently been entrenched. The Moscow Conference was a most substantial milestone in foreign affairs and has, we all hope, laid the foundations of a better world order. But it is on post-war affairs at home that I would like to dwell. The substantial milestone at home is my noble friend Lord Wool-ton. The appointment of Lord Woolton as Minister of Reconstruction is a major move in planning at home, and I am sure your Lordships would wish to congratulate both the Prime Minister on his choice and the noble Lord on his selection. The noble Lord may well feel that instead of congratulating him we should condole with him because his is a gigantic task— one in which he has to sail uncharted and treacherous waters. But at least your Lordships should be well pleased at the appointment—firstly, because the noble

7
Lord by his previous record as Minister of Food has shown himself well equipped for his new task; and secondly, because a member of your Lordships' House has been entrusted with such a vastly important office.
The primary duty of the new Minister of Reconstruction will be, I suppose, to give effect to the four-year-plans envisaged by the Prime Minister in his great broadcast speech some months ago. It is therefore very satisfactory to learn from the most gracious Speech that plans will shortly be completed for the provision of food, homes and employment. If decent homes with reasonably assured employment and plenty of food at prices within the means of all classes can be provided, then at least the most elementary needs of our people will have been satisfied. But these are generalities and it would perhaps be right to consider the problems in greater detail. After the keeping of the peace, an assured employment for all men capable of and willing to work must be our primary aim. The "dole" is an essential part of our social security system, but its real object should be to take care of those people who are temporarily unemployed owing to the normal fluctuations of supply and demand in the various industries. That it had before the war to take care of millions of permanent unemployed was a terrible reflection on our inability to organize ourselves properly. May we pray that we can so organize ourselves after the war that the "dole" is truly an insurance against transitional unemployment and not an admission that it is only in war-time that we can use to the best advantage our great and skilled labour force.
The provision of housing and the rebuilding of our war-damaged cities is a slightly less difficult problem. Indeed the building programme which it will entail will of itself help to provide full and useful employment, which, I repeat, is the one essential around which our post-war planning must be built. The chief problem to be surmounted is to reach agreement on the important but somewhat controversial Reports issued by the Barlow, Scott and Uthwatt Committees. I find myself in agreement with many of their recommendations, but, not unnaturally, there are some with which I do not agree. From
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the somewhat cautious attitude His Majesty's Government have adopted towards them I suspect that they find themselves in much the same position. To go into these controversial matters further on this occasion would be out of place, but I feel that it would not be improper for me to state that in my opinion a primary aim should be to provide all dwellings, both urban and rural, with a piped water supply, inside sanitation, bath and electricity—not only the new houses which are to be built but also the existing dwellings.
I am not sure whether the provision of food comes within the terms of reference of the new Minister of Reconstruction, but if perchance it does he may find this one of his simpler problems. But what is to be our post-war agricultural policy? I confess I was a little disappointed to find no indication in the most gracious Speech of a long-term agricultural policy being produced in the near future. It is generally agreed that agriculture cannot be let down again after this war, and we have heard recently of a four-year plan for agriculture. But I do hope that His Majesty's Government will table before long a long-term agricultural policy. And I venture to say that, having read most carefully the many plans for agriculture after the war which have reached me, it is the report of a private committee of your Lordships' House that seems to me to be the most practical.
The most gracious Speech indicates that proposals will, shortly be laid before Parliament for the reconstruction of our national system of education. That our education system requires drastic overhaul is generally agreed. It is therefore good that the Government have found it possible to put forward their proposals. Further than this I shall not venture because to my mind the discussion of education, like that of India, is a matter for experts, and I am no expert on either. Nor do I claim to be a scholar and it is perhaps for this reason that I feel that the dead languages should take a lesser part in our education system, so as to give more time for practical and scientific subjects.
I have left to the last the Beveridge Report in regard to which I understand His Majesty's Government will put forward their proposals in due course. I do not know what these proposals will be,

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but I expect they will go a long way towards accepting the Beveridge proposals though probably they will not accept them in toto. This I think is a wise course. Assuredly we must not allow undernourishment and want, unemployment and illness to flourish as they did before the war; but also we must keep our sense of proportion. Ideals are one thing; what is practical is unfortunately often another thing. Let us endeavour so to arrange matters that practicability is brought as near as possible to idealism, and above all let us remember that it is only by ensuring full and useful employment—as indeed Sir William Beveridge himself emphasizes —that idealism can be achieved. We are living in changing times and for the time being many of us have had to compromise our ideas for the sake of national unity and the common cause. But the greatness of our Parliamentary system is based on our readiness to compromise in time of danger. May we continue to retain our spirit of compromise in the difficult days that lie ahead.
I beg to move that an humble Address be presented to His Majesty as followeth: "Most Gracious Sovereign,—We, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament."
Moved, That an humble Address be presented to His Majesty as followeth:
"Most Gracious Sovereign,—We, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty had addressed to both Houses of Parliament."—(Viscount Cowdray.)
THE MARQUESS OF NORMANBY: My Lords, it is a great honour to have been asked to second the Motion which has been moved so ably by the noble Viscount. That I should have been entrusted with this responsible task is a demonstration of the thought and attention so generously given by your Lordships to all those who have been, and still
10
are, prisoners of war, and I would like to take this opportunity of thanking the noble Viscount, the Leader of the House, for this compliment to me as one of those prisoners of war of His Majesty's Armed Forces, who have had to suffer a check in their endeavours towards victory. In addressing your Lordships I am subject to the disadvantage of lack of experience, for this is the first time that I have had the honour of speaking in your Lordships' House, and I must ask for the indulgence which your Lordships extend to those who speak for the first time in this House. I suffer also from lack of knowledge of current thought owing to my confinement in a prison camp since the days of Dunkirk.
Your Lordships will have welcomed the stress which has been laid by the most gracious Speech on the first task of His Majesty's Government—the prosecution of the war until final victory is achieved. As the years have gone by we have learnt through bitter experience to appreciate and not to under-estimate the enormous force of the enemy which has been accumulated towards one end—the final and lasting annihilation of all opposition to the Nazi machine. It is difficult to assess with any accuracy the strength of the enemy from the narrow confines and limited horizon of a prison camp, and to maintain a balance between the very strange mixture of lies and truth which form the German newspaper propaganda. I am, however, most firmly convinced that behind the still existing military forces of great magnitude there do lie a determination and a faith based on a desperate instinct of self-preservation. Since my arrival in this country, I confess that I have remarked with some concern what appeared to be an undue interest in the morale of the enemy, but the words of the Prime Minister have relegated these unproductive though attractive speculations to their proper place. It would not be unreasonable, I think, to say that the mind of the average German has been accustomed, having no alternative, to the very severe hardships required by the totalitarian demands of its leader, in very much the same way as prisoners submit and grow accustomed to the hardships and restrictions of confinement. How long the toll of war losses, damage, ensuing hardships and restrictions can be sustained

11
must ultimately depend upon our opposing concentration of force. An instance of this force is now beginning to be felt keenly in Germany, through the destructive work of the Allied Air Forces in their intensified bombing attacks.
As this country now moves from the defensive to the offensive it will, I know, be your Lordships' desire and endeavour to aid in the production of a still greater effort than any shown in the past, for the need for final victory increases as time proceeds. The peoples of Europe are suffering a state of existence scarcely to be believed by the majority in this country, and we know from fact, as also from the Nazi spokesmen themselves, that Germany does not hesitate to ransack and deprive all the captive countries to replenish her own resources. The heartening discussions and the atmosphere of combined trust of the Moscow Conference, will encourage His Majesty's Government to explore with renewed confidence solutions for the resettlement of Europe to which the gracious Speech has referred, and to plan upon a practical scale which can be successfully brought into operation, the relief for these occupied countries during the transition period between war and peace. We welcome whole-heartedly the report of the InterAllied Committee which publishes in definite figures the minimum requirements for post-war relief in Europe. The people of this and other relatively prosperous countries are ready to face the sacrifices necessary to supply these wants, and the publication now of facts and figures stimulates rather than depresses. The public realize more easily the gravity of the situation, and the need for these sacrifices through facts, which, when published, speak for themselves. The stemming of the advances in the East has been achieved, but far greater reserves of men and material will be required to launch and maintain the offensive of the United Nations, while the already numerous problems referred to in the most gracious Speech must increase in proportion with the duration of the war.
Your Lordships will have noticed that provision for training and employment of disabled persons will be asked for in the near future. This problem requires scientific and constructive investigation, and the experience gained from the needs of the wounded and disabled who have
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returned to this country during the last few years must be utilized to determine future provision needed for their employment and rehabilitation. The difference in the immediate reinstatement to civil employment of persons discharged from His Majesty's Armed Forces on active service and those discharged from prison camps, will, I am sure, be marked. The former have lived a life of controlled activity towards a definite goal; the letter a life of enforced inactivity or of aimless work for the enemy. Many thousands of these prisoners of war in Germany will require a progressive training to re-accustom them to normal concentration and regular hours of work, if they are to hold the jobs which they obtain when they are discharged, and it may be surmised that the lot of those who are imprisoned in the Far East will require similar if not further assistance. I feel that your Lordships would wish to know that the loyalty and devotion to His Majesty of all prisoners of war in Germany has been, and is, of the highest possible order. It would not be out of place to mention separately the endurance of the Indian prisoners who have undergone additional hardships of food and climate and intensified propaganda. The welcome given to the repatriated prisoners of war came from the heart of the nation. I should like to say how it was appreciated by men of all ranks.
I have not been home long enough to examine the merits of the recent arguments about ex-Service men, but I have seen that there has been a certain amount of controversy. Considering the very substantial rise in wages which has taken place, I feel certain that your Lordships will view with concern the small rise that has taken place in the pensions which are being paid to those who were disabled in the last war and in the present war. I have noticed that as a result of Parliamentary pressure the Government have made substantial concessions earlier this year, but I warn them that there is still a considerable amount of discontent among ex-Service men about the rates of payment, the conditions under which they are paid and the delay over the settlement of claims.
The gracious Speech referred to the proposed reconstruction of the national education system in England and Wales. This educational programme will form the

13
main foundation for satisfactory maintenance of peace when this war is over and will determine the right trend of social legislation in the future. It is desirable to ensure that proper emphasis will be given in education to the relationship of the evolved individual to his or her environment and presented culture, which, at the present time, is only just beginning to receive attention. In the words of the Secretary of State for the Colonies there is a "tendency for emphasis to be placed on the value of education as the path to a job, rather than as an uneconomic benefit for the individual." Your Lordships have witnessed the results of education based on the suppression of the intellect for materialistic ends, and we are at present engaged in fighting this system brought to its logical conclusion by Nazi educationists. The maintenance of free thought can be of value only if we are concerned with training that ought to be clear and objective, and this is only facilitated, not created, by improved conditions and higher school leaving age.
There is a strong note of intensified unity and confidence in our increasing force when the gracious Speech refers to the devoted efforts throughout the Commonwealth and Empire which are producing a mounting scale of war effort. The appointment by His Majesty of His Royal Highness the Duke of Gloucester as Governor-General of Australia is most warmly welcomed on all sides and is a demonstration of the earnest desire for closer relationship and co-operation between ourselves and the Commonwealth. Never before in history have we been presented with such an opportunity for strengthening the bonds of the Empire as at this time, for by the far-reaching attacks of the enemy the interdependency of its units has been acknowledged as a reality.
Aerial expansion has joined up vast areas of land and has prepared the way for developments where hitherto this was impossible. It would appear of first importance that full attention should now be given to the peopling of these lands, in order that a balanced and well thought out scheme for emigration might be prepared in conjunction and close co-operation with the countries concerned. The importance and necessity of post-war planning in houses, employment, industry, mining and agriculture at home can-
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not be over-estimated, but these cannot be solved in a basic manner without the inclusion of the vast problems of the undeveloped lands of our Empire. This inclusion would in no way add to the task of post-war planning at home but would help to solve mutual difficulties between ourselves and the Empire, and in many cases their requirements would provide a complement to our own. If this problem could be included and viewed in the same perspective with our home reconstruction plans, His Majesty's Government would be able to present some form of concrete proposals to the many persons who do undoubtedly desire to make their future homes in the Empire when they have been discharged from their present wartime occupations. No more practical manner could be found in which to realize your Lordships' concern for the continuance in our Empire, by British subjects, of those standards of freedom and thought which we are striving and fighting to keep alive.
LORD ADDISON: My Lords, I am sure it will be agreed on all sides of your Lordships' House that it was a happy thought on the part of the Leader of the House to call upon the two noble Lords who have moved and seconded the Address to open this discussion to-day. I think that everyone of us who has listened to their speeches has been impressed— certainly I have been impressed—with a sense of the nearness to realities which the two noble Lords presented to us. They have come straight from the strife and they have presented us not only with a picture of present needs but with a prospect for the future, and I would like to say that I am sure every one who has listened to the inspiring speeches which they have delivered to us will sincerely hope, seeing their age, that hereafter in the service of peace they will be able to render us an equal help.
I do not propose to introduce a controversial note into what I have to say on this occasion, although I shall have some questions to ask. I think we should have welcomed in the early part of the gracious Speech some reference to our great Ally China, particularly because there is, I believe, on the way now a Mission of good will from China to this country. We all remember the very interesting discussion which we had in this House, taken part in by noble Lords who themselves

15
had been members of our Mission to China. I am sure His Majesty's Government are concerned now in seeing that the best of British welcomes will be afforded to our Chinese friends when they get here.
I must draw attention to certain words in the paragraph in the gracious Speech relating to the settlement in Europe. As was shown in a recent discussion, every one of us welcomes the immense possibilities which must flow from the Moscow Conference, but I notice in the gracious Speech these words:
"My Government, taking counsel with my Allies and building upon the foundations laid at the recent Conference in Moscow, will devote continuous attention to the study of plans for the future settlement of Europe."
It is to the last two words "of Europe" that I want to draw attention, because we must be aware that whilst Europe unfortunately seems to possess an unusual crop of the seeds of war, the prevention of war in the future, and the security of peace, must necessarily take account of things all over the world and not be confined to the continent of Europe.
I was rather glad that the noble Viscount who moved the Address made some reference to what has happened in the Dodecanese, and I hope the Conference at Moscow will form the beginning of inter-Allied Staff work of the best kind, but I confess to have shared the disappointment expressed by the mover of the Address regarding our recent experience in the Dodecanese islands. If the noble Viscount who will speak on behalf of the Government can tell us—if he thinks it desirable—anything about this matter, I am sure we should welcome it. I will not pursue the subject further now, but it is one which I am sure is prominent in the minds of all of us and it looks to be a regrettable piece of work.
There is another limitation of a very important character, to which I would direct your Lordships' attention, in the long paragraph beginning "At the same time my Ministers." But, in order that your Lordships may be clear as to what it is that I am going to refer to, I will venture to read the passage. It runs:
"… my Ministers will complete their provisional plans for the period of transition through which we must pass before the troubled times of war give place to settled conditions of peace. It will be the primary aim of my Government to ensure that in this
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period food, homes and employment are provided for my people …"
and so on. Your Lordships will notice that the provision of plans and the indication of the actions to be taken are directed to the difficulties that will arise in the transitional period. And even so there are limiting words relating to the ensuring of food, homes and employment in the transitional period. I hope that His Majesty's Government are looking a little beyond the transitional period in some of these vital matters. In that respect I would like to associate myself with what the noble Viscount said as to the appointment of the Minister of Reconstruction and to join in congratulating Lord Woolton on being chosen for the post. I earnestly hope that Lord Woolton will achieve the same success in that position as he did at the Ministry of Food. I earnestly hope also that, should occasion arise, he will not hesitate to ask for necessary powers. I have had some personal, and perhaps, to some extent, painful experience of that business, and I hope, therefore, that the Minister will insist on having necessary powers and the best staff that the Civil Service can provide; he will need them, I am sure.
To revert, however, to the criticism I was making with regard to the words "period of transition," I am sure that our plans for industry, and certainly our plans for agriculture, must look far beyond a period of transition. Certainly, it must be the case in providing homes for the people, although it is true of course that the period of transition may be said, perhaps, to cover a long time. At all events, it will take a long time unless drastic methods different from those used hitherto to provide homes for the people are adopted. It is a long business, and therefore I hope we shall obtain some assurance that in these vital matters relating to the provision of food and homes for the people, His Majesty's Government are not unduly limiting themselves, in their thought to the transitional period. Certainly it is essential also that there should be no such limitation with regard to the provision of work, and I was so glad that noble Lords just now referred to the removal of the causes of wholesale unemployment as being essential in our post-war plans.
Your Lordships will notice that there are only two matters definitely promised

17
for legislation. There is first, we are told, to be legislation affecting education, and secondly legislation conferring special powers with regard to the redevelopment of areas damaged by enemy action and so on. I have no doubt that opportunities will arise for the discussion of both these matters. Indeed, I am quite sure that opportunities will arise, and in that respect, perhaps, it would not be out of place for me to mention that I believe notices are already on the Paper to initiate discussions on these matters early next month. I hope that the noble Lord the Minister will be afforded an opportunity of saying what he has to say on the subject, but I for one shall not embarrass him by expecting very much, at that stage, from him, though we are disappointed—at any rate I am—that His Majesty's Government, after this long period, in respect of certain matters can only promise legislation on those two.
I would now draw your Lordships' attention to a delightful paragraph which if it were not in the gracious Speech I should perhaps animadvert upon in different terms. Let me read it:
"My Ministers will present to you their views and proposals regarding an enlarged and unified system of social insurance, a comprehensive health service and a new scheme of workmen's compensation …."
Your Lordships will notice that we are promised an expression of the Ministers' views and proposals. The paragraph goes on:
"and they will decide, in the light of your discussions what specific proposals for legislation on these matters can be brought forward at this stage."
At all events, that is not what you would describe as very heroic. It certainly promises quite a crop of White Papers; it certainly means ever so many White Papers, and when they Have been published they will be the subject of Parliamentary discussion. We have had quite a number of White Papers on each one of these subjects already and prolonged and repeated Parliamentary discussions upon them. As I say, it does not seem to me to be very heroic that after two years all we can be promised is that we shall be provided with various White Papers, which we shall be privileged to discuss, and that His Majesty's Government will think about it afterwards. That really is all that that amounts to.
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Perhaps the noble Viscount will be able to give us a little encouragement, but as an old Parliamentary hand I should say that there is very little in it so far as that paragraph is concerned. I would direct your Lordships' attention to the next sentence but one. It is perhaps a little more promising, and it relates to a subject in regard to which this House, I am sure, is historically very conscious.
"My Government will lay before you the results of their examination of the Reports which have been made recommending the assumption of further powers to control and direct the use of the land of Great Britain."
There again we are not promised any proposals. We arc promised the result of their examination of the Reports. That might mean very little, or it might mean a lot. I hope that the noble Viscount will tell us something of what it does mean, because this is a fundamental matter. These Reports, the Uthwatt Report and others, have been before us for a long time, and no progress can be made with respect to planning or re-equipping agriculture, or determining the suitable location of industry, unless a clear and definite policy with regard to the land is arrived at and embodied in legislation. That is absolutely fundamental. I hope that your Lordships—although there are divergencies of view between us, no doubt, as to the methods which might be adopted— will not lose any opportunity of urging upon the Government the necessity of coming to a decision of some kind on this matter.
There are two omissions in the gracious Speech to which I should like to refer, though I do not propose to dwell upon them. There is no reference to the subject of India, and there is no reference to another subject which I believe is of great importance—the decisions with regard to post-war policy on matters of transport, and especially with regard to shipping. It is of great consequence that as soon as possible decisions should be arrived at as to policy in those matters.
It is quite evident, from a very cursory review of this most significant Speech, that there will be abundant opportunity in the near future for your Lordships to make your characteristic and valuable contributions to the public examination of great matters. Those matters are very numerous, and some of them are very urgent. Although I have tried to express, I hope not with any measure of acerbity,

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a certain amount of disappointment in some respects, I do welcome, and I think that we all welcome, this perhaps tardy and insufficient indication that the Government are resolved forthwith to prepare for dealing with the urgent problems which make the future ominous and yet so full of promise. The disgrace of wholesale unemployment and needless poverty and all that belongs to it can be removed, and I think the nation has proved that it is worthy of our best efforts. The tasks which lie before us assuredly will require, and I hope will receive, the same courageous, broad-minded, and united resolution that the war has called for.
LORD MOTTISTONE: My Lords, it is in accordance with precedent that a few words should be said from this quarter of the House in tribute to the mover and seconder of the Address, if indeed they merit such a tribute. My words will be very few, but not because in this case the mover and seconder have failed. Indeed, in the course of what is almost as long an experience of Parliamentary life as that of my noble friend Lord Addison, I have never heard two better speeches, nor two speeches which have affected one so much when one reflects what the speakers have been through before they addressed us. They give us a vivid realization of what our Forces on land and sea and in the air are going through at this moment. I think that it is in the mind of every member of this House to say that these two noble Lords may rest assured that we do most heartily congratulate them on being here safe and sound after the terrible ordeal through which they both have been. It is not much fun to have one's arm shot off by a machine gun—at least, so I am informed by those with experience—and to see the mover none the worse for the experience, and indeed all the better from the point of view of speaking, is a great pleasure to all his friends and colleagues. I would also add my tribute to the seconder. The way in which he has pleaded the cause of the prisoners of war, when the time comes for them to return, and the fact that, as we all know, he threw himself whole-heartedly into the work for blinded prisoners, work which we acknowledge here with gratitude, show that he is just the man to help
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your Lordships in the future consideration of these problems.
When I read the gracious Speech— which I had an opportunity of seeing a moment or two before it was delivered— the same point occurred to me that has been mentioned by the noble Lord, the Leader of the Opposition. I would put it in this way. This is not an occasion when we make serious criticisms of the Government, but I feel sure that the Government intend to give the impression that they know that the war is now going so much better that we must be ready for peace, and that they, a resolute band of men, are determined to go forward without delay to provide homes, food and work for all. I hope and believe that that is so. I should like to join with everyone else in paying a tribute to the Government for having chosen the noble Lord, Lord Woolton, to carry out this work; and I would say to the noble Lord that in all my long Parliamentary experience I never knew a Minister who almost at one stroke achieved the confidence of the people as he did. He talked to them on the wireless as if he knew each one who was listening. He has "a way with him." He never uses a long word when a short one will do. He undertook the most unpopular job possible, and emerged the most popular man. If he will give even half of those brilliant gifts which he showed as Minister of Food to this task of reconstruction, he may rest assured that all of us on these Benches, and no doubt elsewhere, will be united in giving him all possible support in the great task which lies before him.
With infinite respect, however, to my noble friend who will reply, the Government have not made a very good start in the paragraphs to which reference has been made. I discussed them with Lord Crewe, who is unfortunately unable to be present, and we kept on wondering exactly when legislation is going to be introduced. There is a strange phrase to the effect that what the Government do afterwards is going to depend on what we say here. That is a very dark saying, a really deep mystery. I hope that the noble Viscount, the Leader of the House, will make it plain that in this matter of reconstruction the Government are not going to wait until we have finished talking about it here before they make their proposals, but that they have made up their minds about such matters as houses

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and how to build them, and water-supply and how to give it. We hope that this band of resolute men is determined to do these things, and if the noble Viscount can tell us that that is so we shall be very grateful.
I shall say no more, because I do not think that your Lordships would wish anyone to prolong the proceedings. After the speeches to which we have listened from the mover and the seconder, to which well-deserved tributes have already been paid, we feel very much in our hearts to-day that we are here to try to help the men who are fighting in this desperate struggle, often in circumstances of the most terrible stress, a stress to which mankind has hardly ever been subjected before. Perhaps I may be permitted to say, however, how glad all those who have had to do with the Royal Navy will be at the special reference made in the Speech to the mastery of the U-boats. I suppose most of your Lordships have friends or relatives engaged in that arduous service of hunting U-boats, and, my word, to see these young men of all classes, as I have done, apparently quite oblivious of the immense dangers they are running, and equally oblivious of the wonderful services they are rendering to the State, makes one realize that they do merit a special word of commendation in the gracious Speech. We rejoice that it has been given, and we are glad, too, that reference is made to the achievements of all our fighting men. We feel it only just to say that, although there are setbacks, like those at Samos and Leros and elsewhere, they only bring into higher relief in these last few months the fact that the Allied strategy has been well conceived, and carried out with great vigour and courage by the Army, Navy and Air Force. We commend the Government for what they have done, and we hope they will continue and prosper.
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DOMINION AFFAIRS (VISCOUNT CRANBORNE) (Lord Cecil): My Lords, the opening of a new Session of Parliament is always a distinguished occasion, and to-day our meeting, I think, bears especially the mark of the times in which we live. Both the noble Lords who have moved and seconded the humble Address have fought in this war, as was said by Lord Addison, and both of them give
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proof in their persons of the sacrifices which they have made for their country. They are evidence, living evidence, that members of this House, no less than the other elements of the British nation, are making contributions to the common effort and to the common sacrifice. The noble Viscount, Lord Cowdray, we have already heard on an earlier occasion, and to-day we heard him for the second time. Again he made a most admirable speech, thoughtful and sensible, under what I think he himself confessed was a rather trying ordeal, and I should like to congratulate him on behalf of all your Lordships on the notable way in which he acquitted himself. I hope very much that he will continue to be a regular contributor to your Lordships' debates.
I should also like to offer my heartfelt congratulations to the noble Marquess, Lord Normanby, for the impressive maiden speech we heard this afternoon. It was one of the most remarkable maiden efforts we have heard in your Lordships' House for many a long day. I know that the House listened to the noble Marquess's account of both the conditions and the problems of the British, Dominion, and Indian prisoners of war in Germany, and also to the conclusions which he himself drew, as a prisoner of war, with regard to the situation in the Reich, with that attention which it always accords to those who speak with the conviction of personal experience. I am sure noble Lords will wish me to express here our gratitude to him for the part which he has personally played in alleviating the lot of his fellow prisoners. He has made to-day a contribution worthy of the highest traditions of your Lordships' House, and I hope we shall hear him, too, again on an early occasion.
It is the custom for the spokesman of His Majesty's Government, who speaks on the occasion of the debate on the most gracious Speech, to give a short review of the situation both at home and abroad, and in particular to discuss those items in the gracious Speech to which reference has been made in the debate. It may seem rather paradoxical for me to say so, but in present circumstances there really is not very much new that I can say to your Lordships. In time of war, as we all know, this House is mainly occupied with debates on Motions on various questions of public policy, and so active are the minds

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of your Lordships, and so catholic are your interests, that there is practically no aspect of public affairs which has not recently been the subject of a declaration of Government policy. I lately looked up the debates of the last two or three months, and what did I find? I found that, among many other subjects, the debates covered the following questions: demobilization, education, agriculture (we had three debates on various aspects of agriculture), planning powers, the war situation, post-war civil air transport, inland transport, the structure of the Government of the Commonwealth and Empire, coal, the Uthwatt Report, and last but not least, the Moscow Conference. In addition, I understand from what the noble Lord, Lord Addison, said this afternoon that he is proposing to table a general Motion on the question of reconstruction, so as to enable the new Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Woolton, whom we all so warmly welcome in his new position, to expound his views, and I am quite certain that the House will not expect me, with much less authority, to anticipate what he is going to say.
As a result, that does not leave an enormous amount for me to talk about this afternoon, at any rate on home affairs. It may, of course, be said that there is always something new about the war. In a great struggle of this character, of course, the situation is continually developing; it alters from week to week, from day to day. But in fact there have been no very startling changes since the House met. The first paragraph of the most gracious Speech gave your Lordships a brief and vivid account of the present position. I can amplify what is said in the Speech, but I cannot effectively add anything. In Italy, as your Lordships know, the British and American Armies are moving steadily forward. It is not rapid progress of the type we used to be accustomed to in North Africa. That is inevitable, because the terrain is utterly different. It is mountainous and unsuited for the mobile mechanical warfare which was the medium of the victories of the Eighth and First Armies earlier this year. Moreover, in winter the climate, especially in the mountains of Italy, is detestable, with snow, rain and floods, more even than we have in this country. Nature, in fact, is all on the side of the defender. But in spite of those
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handicaps the Allied Armies are advancing, and they are now within seventy miles of Rome. I understand the military authorities on the spot are entirely satisfied with the progress. They think it is the best that could have been hoped for in the circumstances.
Equally, on the Russian Front the German Armies are being steadily driven back. Even if the Russians have some local setbacks, just as we have had setbacks in the Aegean—setbacks of which I propose to say a little more later on— still, at the end of each week, I think the Russians are, broadly speaking, always to be found, over the whole length of the front, further forward than they were before. Indeed, the progress of the Russian campaign speaks for itself. Day after day we get full communiqués painting a vivid picture of the brilliant strategy of the Russian generals. They show how the German High Command who are frantically moving their forces from north to south, then from south to north, have been unable to stem the flood of the Russian advance, although they can, of course, as it were, dent it in certain areas. That Russian advance has reminded me, and I expect has reminded your Lordships, of a sight we often see along our own coasts when the tide is coming in, creeping on, now here and now there. First it fills the creeks and channels, the lower levels, leaving behind sandbanks and shoals, like islands in the flood, and then the tide comes up and submerges them all. Your Lordships will remember some lines of Clough very much to that effect, which the House will perhaps allow me to quote:
"What though the tired wave, vainly breaking,
Seems here no painful inch to gain,
Far back, through creeks and inlets making,
Comes silent, flooding in, the main."
That is the impression which this great Russian advance makes on us in this country.
How long the Soviet Armies will be able to continue at the present rate—they have already liberated two-thirds of German occupied territory—we cannot of course tell. But there is definite evidence of anxiety both on the part of the German Government and of their satellites, and this anxiety is growing. There is talk— your Lordships will perhaps have read it —by German military experts of the

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"overwhelming strength" of the Russian Armies, a very different story from what we used to hear two years ago, and there are even suggestions by the Germans themselves of an analogy with 1918. We all hope very much that may be true; but it would be most unwise to bank on it. Drawing analogies between the last war and this has in the past proved a very unprofitable occupation. They have been falsified again and again. As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister pointed out only the other day, Germany still has immense forces in the field, and they are not liable to crack. As experience in Tunisia showed, the Germans continue to fight until they are ordered to stop fighting, and certainly it is most improbable that Hitler will give any such order. He knows exactly what it would mean to him and his regime. Therefore we must proceed on the assumption that the war will continue for many more months—I was almost going to say for many more years, but that would be going too far: but certainly for many more months. Our course is clear. We must integrate ever more closely our military and political collaboration with cur Allies.
The noble Lord, Lord Addison, in his speech this afternoon expressed some anxiety about China. He regretted there was no mention of China in the most gracious Speech. Perhaps I might say in passing, if it is necessary to do so, that of course there has been no intention to omit China. The United Nations, which are referred to in the speech, include all those who are fighting for liberty. The greater includes the less—though one can hardly describe China as among the less —and I should have thought that His Majesty's Government had too often expressed the admiration which they have for China, and the satisfaction they feel to be fighting by the side of the gallant Chinese people, for there to be any mistake on that score. At any rate, if there has been any misapprehension, I hope what I have said this afternoon will remove it.
To return to Europe and the fronts in Europe: there is, of course, much that we can do and much that we are doing in this country to assist the common struggle against Germany, the most immediate task before the Allies. That we are doing this has been frankly and generously admitted by Marshal Stalin
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himself in the speech he recently made. By maintaining pressure on the Italian Front, by continuing our northward advance, we are pinning down divisions which are urgently needed to-day in Russia; and by continuing and intensifying the air offensive which is based on this country we and the Americans are holding on the Western Front the great bulk of the German fighter planes which are urgently needed in the East. It is the measure of the fear and panic inspired by our air offensive that only one-fifth of the first-line fighter strength of Germany can at present be spared to assist the hard-pressed German Armies in Russia.
And indeed it is no empty fear. The power of our bombing offensive is relentlessly increasing week by week. I shall give your Lordships a few figures. During the first ten months of 1943, Bomber Command released over the whole of Occupied Europe 130,000 tons of high explosive and incendiary bombs, of which 85 per cent. fell upon Germany herself. This weight of attack on the Reich 112,000 tons in ten months—compares with 37,000 tons for the whole of 1942 and 23,000 tons for the whole of 1941. In the last two night raids on Berlin—I do not include the raid of which we have heard to-day, but refer only to the two previous raids on November 18 and November 22—nearly 4,000 tons of bombs were dropped on Berlin. That brings the total tonnage dropped on the capital of Germany to 11,000 tons. Berlin thus becomes the most heavily bombed town in Germany in 1943. It has now received a greater weight of bombs even than Hamburg, and your Lordships know what happened to Hamburg. Since these figures were given to me, we have had news of a further successful raid last night. The enormous havoc to the German war machine which has been inflicted by this year's onslaught has resulted in no fewer than seventeen of Germany's chief cities being so badly damaged that they are now more a liability than an asset to German's war effort. All this is in addition to—it does not include—the skilful and daring daylight attacks by the United States Air Force, which, like our own, are steadily increasing. So much for our own contribution to the defeat of GerGermany—that is to say the contribution of the Western Powers, if I may so describe them.

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Equally on our side we must frankly recognize—I know everyone will be ready to do so—that it is only the magnificent achievement of the Russians that has made possible our successful campaigns in North Africa, Sicily, and Italy. Inter-Allied collaboration, although often it may appear loose-knit and incomplete, is actually working. The war is going well in Europe, in the Far East, and against the U-boats on the high seas. Unless Germany can produce some entirely new method of warfare, it is clear that we are moving forward slowly but surely towards victory. It is, of course, inevitable that there should be setbacks in certain areas. It is impossible in war to have an unbroken series of successes. As we know, on the Russian Front Zhitomir has—we hope only temporarily—had to be abandoned, and as your Lordships also know, and as Lord Addison and the mover of the Address have already said, we ourselves have lost control of certain of the islands in the Ægean. Noble Lords may wish me to go into rather more detail about the events in this particular area. I am very ready, I can assure the House, to tell your Lordships all I can, though I am sure you will understand that there are certain things which cannot yet be said for security reasons.
I have been asked the reason for the fall of Leros. It is very natural that such a question should be asked. I know very well that the situation in the Ægean has been preoccupying the minds of many noble Lords for some considerable time. The noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, a week or two ago expressed to me a desire to put down a Motion on this subject. He only held his hand, at my earnest request, in view of pending operations, and I should like to express my gratitude to him for meeting me in this matter. But now that the island has fallen it is clearly necessary that a Government statement should be made on this event, although it would be a mistake to over-stress its importance in the whole war picture. We must beware of losing our sense of balance in these matters. Still it is important, because, after all, the loss of these islands, I fully agree, stands out in dark relief against the general glowing picture of Allied success. As I have explained, it is impossible yet to tell the whole story, but I will do what I can, and I will be as full as I can possibly manage to be.
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The advance in the Dodecanese, as your Lordships know, took place at the time of the Italian Armistice. The first essential fact which we must recognize is that this attack in the Ægean must not be regarded, as has so often been done, and as was indeed done by the mover of the humble Address this afternoon, as an independent campaign entirely separate from the invasion of Italy. It is quite wrong to look at it in that way. It was part of the same operation. It was realized by those responsible for our Mediterranean strategy that the landings at Salerno were bound to be hazardous and precarious in the extreme—were bound to be an extremely difficult operation. Therefore it was vital that we should take every practicable step to cause a diversion of enemy forces, especially in the air, and reduce the weight of the enemy air defensive directed against our troops and shipping along the coasts of Italy. This object, it was thought, would best be achieved by facing him with other commitments in neighbouring areas, commitments sufficiently serious to prevent the movement of reinforcements to the main battle. That, my Lords, put very shortly and simply, was the main purpose of our movement into the Dodecanese.
But, equally, it was regarded as sound strategy to take advantage of the collapse of Italy—which was known to us but at that time was not known to the Germans —and to stretch our tentacles into the enemy positions and occupy points d'appui from which we might harry his communications. Had we failed to do this we should certainly have laid ourselves open to very legitimate criticism both in your Lordships' House and outside. I can imagine what the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, would have said if we had not moved. He has always been an advocate of a forward policy, and I think your Lordships will probably remember that in almost the last debate we had on the Mediterranean position, he was rebuking the Government very severely because we did not sail straight into the Gulf of Naples instead of pusillanimously limiting ourselves to a landing at Salerno. He assured us, I remember, that it would have been absolutely safe to have gone straight to Naples, that the Germans were on the run, that the Italians were on our side, and so on. One can imagine what arguments he, and, if not he, other critics of the Government, would have used about the Ægean. They would have pointed

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out, with great truth, that at Rhodes there were four Italians to every one German; they would have pointed out that in the other islands of the Ægean there were no Germans at all; they would have asked why the Allied military commanders did not take advantage of this unique chance, a chance never likely to return. In fact on this particular occasion, the Allied military commanders took exactly the same view as was taken on other occasions by the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi.
LORD STRABOLGI: I did not know this point was going to be raised. The whole difference is this, they were three weeks too late.
VISCOUNT CRANBORNE: No, I do not at all agree that they were three weeks too late. But perhaps the noble Lord will allow me to develop my argument, and he will see what I mean. They were anxious to move as far and as fast as possible, though they recognized fully that certain risks were involved, as they certainly were. Every strategic consideration favoured a forward policy in the Eastern Mediterranean at that juncture, in combination with a landing in Italy. It was an assistance to the invasion of Italy, and we had certain chances at that moment which were not likely to recur.
The position in the Greek Islands at the date of the Italian capitulation was as follows. In Crete there were 55,000 Axis troops of which 30,000 were Germans. In Rhodes, which was the key of the Do-decanese undoubtedly, there were 40,000 Italians and 9,000 Germans. There were also Germans in certain of the larger islands of the Northern Ægean. But in the smaller islands of the Dodecanese there were only garrisons of Italians. Obviously the main prize was Rhodes, if we could get it. Therefore on the 9th September, the day of the unconditional surrender of Italy, the day on which General Alexander landed on the beaches at Salerno, General Wilson, who was commanding in the Middle East, sent a small party to Rhodes with the object of rallying the Italians to our cause. Had the Italians, been ready to co-operate, there is no doubt the island might easily—I think we should all agree it might easily—have been brought over to the Allied side, for the Germans would have been overwhelmed by mere numbers. But in fact the Italians were unwilling to turn against the Germans, and the British
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party which was sent on the 9th September was refused permission to land. It was clear, therefore, that the reduction of Rhodes would require a major expedition, which was not practicable at that moment. Our attention was, therefore, turned to the smaller islands, and troops were landed at Cos, Leros, Castelorizzo, and Samos. Of these, as your Lordships know, Cos was clearly the most important, because it contained the only airfield in the Dodecanese. A squadron of Spitfires was introduced into Cos, and steps were taken to strengthen our garrisons there and in the other islands we had occupied.
This British initiative produced exactly the result which had been expected. The Germans were compelled to retain in the Eastern Mediterranean considerable forces of first-line aircraft which otherwise they would have sent to Italy. In fact they had to bring some aircraft from the Western Front and from Russia, and over the period in question we succeeded in containing in this area, the Eastern Mediterranean, no less than 35 per cent. of the total German Air Force in the Mediterranean. Moreover, these German aircraft suffered extremely heavy casualties both on the ground and in the air at the hands of our air squadrons based on North Africa and the Middle East. In all the enemy lost 150 aircraft destroyed, and 100 damaged. There is no doubt that this diversion of German strength to the Eastern Mediterranean imposed an extremely heavy strain upon our naval, military and air forces in that area; but the immediate object, the first object of the operation, was achieved. What we lost in the Ægean we gained in Italy. Indeed, so great was the embarrassment caused to the Germans by these operations, that they were driven to undertake an operation to remove the menace. As your Lordships know, on the 3rd October the attack on Cos began. Had the 4,000 Italians who were on the island taken part in its defence, the result possibly, one might say probably, would have been different. But they did not give us any assistance. Faced with a combined seaborne and air attack, 1,500 British troops who were there, though they fought with the greatest gallantry, were gradually driven back and broken up, and eventually took to the hills, from which later a number of them were evacuated. So Cos was lost.

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Next the Germans turned their attention to Leros. It has been suggested that after the fall of Cos we should have abandoned the other islands. But there were in fact powerful reasons for holding on if we could. While it was evident that the loss of the airfield at Cos made the position of the other islands more difficult, the presence of British troops at Leros and Samos represented a painful thorn in the side of the Germans. We were sitting astride their communications, and were a great tactical embarrassment to them. Moreover, our light naval forces continued to harass their shipping and inflicted heavy casualties upon them.
The Germans therefore found it necessary to attack Leros. The first German attack on Leros took place on October 7. It failed: it was broken up by the Navy. Six landing craft and two merchant ships, all packed with troops, were sunk off Stampalia and the attack was defeated. Moreover, Leros was a strong place: it was not like Cos. The Italians before the war had converted it almost into a fortress and there was good reason to suppose that it might hold out. If it had survived a second attack—and, my Lords, it very nearly did, it was touch and go, what I think the Duke of Wellington speaking of the Battle of Waterloo called "a damned nice thing"—if it had held out, the losses, naval and military, which the Germans would have suffered would have precluded them from mounting a further attack with the shipping at their disposal for some considerable time, perhaps three or four months; and a great deal can happen in three months. That was the view of the Middle East Command, and it had the full support of His Majesty's Government here. In fact, it was a very near thing. Even two days before the end, we were receiving encouraging reports from those in control in the island; and these have been confirmed by some reports which your Lordships may have read from a war correspondent who left the island only two days before the end and said he was extremely surprised to read of the surrender of the island. At one moment, the enemy were driven back almost to the very beaches on which they landed. But ultimately the exhaustion of the garrison, under continued air attack, proved too great a handicap and the island was compelled to surrender.
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It is very easy to be what is called wise after the event and to say that the attempt to hold the island should never have been made, but I still believe this to be a short-sighted view. The defenders inflicted very heavy casualties on the enemy's aircraft and shipping and also on their man-power. In addition to the enemy planes, which, as I mentioned earlier, were destroyed—I think 150 were destroyed and 100 damaged—the enemy's naval losses from September 9 to November 19 amounted to at least 30,000 tons. They included eleven merchant vessels, eight escort vessels, ten Siebel ferries, each craft carrying 150 to 200 men, and fifteen cargo or smaller vessels carrying up to forty men. The list does not include vessels damaged. The enemy in fact lost a substantial proportion of their available shipping in the Mediterranean. It is estimated that at least 4,000 enemy troops were drowned, in addition to those killed fighting on the island.
I do not want to dogmatize on these events—it is far too early, I think, to do that—and I quite realize that different views may be held, but I would emphasize once more that we must not look on this as an individual episode, apart from the rest of the Mediterranean campaign. It must be regarded as part of the general assault upon the under-belly of the Axis. Moreover, the Ægean operations occupied a considerable portion of the German Air Force during a very important phase of the Italian campaign. The operations in the Ægean assisted the Italian invasion and if we could have held these islands— which, as I say, we very nearly did— they would have been a thorn in the German side, just as Tobruk was in North Africa. No one criticizes the operations in Corsica and Sardinia—at least I have not heard criticisms—but these operations, which were undertaken at the same time, were very similar in character and were undertaken with equally light forces. The only difference is that one happened to succeed and the other happened to fail. But the chances were about equal in either case. The circumstances of these two attacks were very similar. I want to make that clear. I have taken great trouble to find that out. I believe therefore the attempt was worth making. But I wish to be completely frank with your Lordships' House. Of course, as matters turned out, it does represent a setback, although a local setback, to our arms.

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For the present I believe noble Lords will be wise to suspend judgment. In the meantime, I am quite certain we shall all wish to pay tribute to the very brave men who put up so gallant a fight, a fight which was worthy of the finest traditions of the British Army.
Now I would like, if I may, to turn to another part of the Middle East. As your Lordships know, a difficult situation has recently arisen in Lebanon. As the result of elections which were held during the summer a strongly Nationalist President and Legislature were elected, and the Government which was formed was also of a very Nationalist complexion. A dispute arose last month between the Lebanese Government and the French authorities regarding the manner in which progress should be made towards implementing the promises of independence given to the Lebanon. Your Lordships will recollect that when Allied Forces entered the Levant States in the summer of 1943, and removed them from the control of Vichy, General Catroux, acting on behalf of General de Gaulle, promised to terminate the Mandate and to give independent to the Lebanese people subject to the retention by the French authorities of certain powers regarding defence, internal security, communications, etc., necessary for the war effort. The grant of independence and termination of the Mandate were to be formally embodied in a treaty between France and the Lebanon. In a public statement made at the tine and since confirmed, His Majesty's Government endorsed this promise.
The present dispute, as your Lordships I think probably know, arose out of a Bill regarding constitutional reforms affecting the position of the French, which the Lebanese Government took steps to pass without French concurrence. The French Delegate-General retaliated by arresting the newly-elected President and most of the members of the Lebanese Government. This action was regarded as unjustified by the circumstances both in the Lebanon itself and in other Middle East countries, and very considerable public excitement and concern, as your Lordships know, were aroused. His Majesty's Government have a dual interest in this dispute. First of all His Majesty's Government have endorsed the promises of independence given to the Lebanese people, as I have described, and
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they have followed with interest and sympathy the subsequent development of constitutional government in the Lebanon. Secondly, the Lebanon is of great military importance to the war in the Eastern Mediterranean, owing to the ports and communications within its boundaries, and any threat of a breakdown of law and order is, therefore, of direct concern to us.
We have made it clear to both parties that our only anxiety is to see a peaceful solution of the dispute which will enable calm to be restored and constitutional progress to be resumed in an orderly and agreed manner at the earliest possible moment. Our views have been explained to those concerned and I am glad to say that the President and the Ministers have now been released and the President has been reinstated. In addition, information has come in this morning that the Lebanese Ministers themselves have resumed their functions. We may therefore hope that a rapid and agreed solution will now be found for such outstanding questions as remain. It is unreasonable that the war effort should be hampered by local disputes of this violence and intensity, and in our view both sides owe it to the United Nations to reach an understanding at once which will enable calm to be restored in an area where it is vital for the united war effort. I should like to add a tribute to the statesmanship which the French Committee of Liberation has shown in making possible what we hope may prove a solution of what has been undoubtedly a troublesome and potentially dangerous situation. I am sure the House will not wish to press me further in this matter at the present stage. It is surely one of those occasions upon which least said soonest mended. I would like, however, to tell the House, because I think they will wish to know, that the American and Soviet Governments have throughout been kept fully informed by my right honourable friend, the Foreign Secretary, in view of the potential complications of this dispute.
I have spoken a very long time, and I have not yet come to home affairs. But, in fact, as I said at the beginning of my remarks, there is very little to say about home affairs which has not already been said in recent weeks by responsible Ministers. There has been reference in the gracious Speech to reconstruction, mining, agriculture, education, social insurance

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and national health service. On all these questions we have had, or are going to have, debates. There is, however, one point about which I may perhaps say something without, as it were, treading upon the toes of the noble Lord, Lord Woolton, who is going to address your Lordships in a forthcoming debate. That word refers to the paragraph about which the noble Lord, Lord Addison, spoke. I will read it again.
"My Ministers will present to you their views and proposals regarding an enlarged and unified system of social insurance, a comprehensive health service and a new scheme of workmen's compensation; and they will decide, in the light of your discussions, what specific proposals for legislation on these matters can be brought forward at this stage."
The noble Lord poked a good, deal of fun at that paragraph. He said with regard to the procedure proposed that it was not heroic—I think those were the words he used. Well, I do not think it is heroic, but I think it is eminently sensible, if the noble Lord will allow me to say so. Here are questions of extreme difficulty and complexity, as everybody agrees. The Government have been considering them for some time. If your Lordships will believe me, the Government have been considering them very hard. I have sat on some of the Committees concerned, and I can assure your Lordships that these matters are not nearly so easy of solution as they may appear to some noble Lords. As I say, the Government have been working continuously, and they have now got to the stage of proposals which they desire to make. I should have thought that the natural action to take in order to ensure that the proposals should be acceptable to the people of this country would be to put them before Parliament to get the sense of the House upon them. That is exactly the sort of procedure which we always adopt in your Lordships' House. The general complaint which I have always heard against dictatorship is that under it there is never any reference, in time of war, to the freely elected representatives of the people. What the Government now propose to do is to ensure that reference. I think it a little hard that the noble Lord should take such an opportunity to jibe at them. This is surely the proper and sensible method of tackling these difficult questions. I would suggest that we shall get far easier and more rapid agreement
36
that way than by any other form of procedure which might be suggested.
I should also like to say something about the transitional period, to which reference was made by Lord Addison. At the beginning of the war I think that we tended—or rather many people in this country tended—to simplify too much. Such people used to talk merely of war and peace, and seemed to anticipate some sort of immediate change-over from hell to heaven. But now, as victory draws nearer, I think we are all of us beginning to realize more and more how difficult it is going to be to pass from war to peace, to get from the one point to the other, and how carefully we shall have to feel our way, step by step, over the morass which is going to separate those two stages. A moment will come, later or sooner, when the guns will cease to fire, and when all we are doing now will become useless and futile. Yet we shall not be able to sit down and fold our hands and rest. We shall have, immediately, to begin to turn our hands to other tasks. There must be no slackening off, no hiatus; otherwise the country will starve and all this great effort which we are now making will have been wasted.
Those who bid the Government plan for the future—I see Lord Balfour of Burleigh there in his place—are right. Of course they are; absolutely right. And indeed Ministers are in fact already working, as I have said, day and night in preparation for the change which is coming. But I must confess—and I hope Lord Balfour of Burleigh will not think that this refers to him—that some of the planners frighten me. They look so very far ahead. I am dreadfully afraid that if they got their way they, and we, would suffer the lamentable fate of little Johnny Head-in-Air, of whose sad demise your Lordships are well aware.
In this transitional period we shall not, in fact, be able always to put into force ideal schemes. We shall inevitably be living to some extent from hand to mouth. By all means, let us have great plans for the future, and let us put them into operation as soon as we can. Some will be practicable immediately, I hope. For others we shall have to wait. But let us recognize that one obligation lies upon us before all else. When this battle ends, when demobilization begins, the ex-Ser-vice men and the other workmen—for all

37
alike are mobilized in total war; the position in that respect is different now from what it has been in the past—all these great masses of Englishmen will have to be given work to do, food to pat and somewhere to lay their heads. Inevitably, at first, some of the houses which we shall have to provide will not be those which we should ideally choose for them. It is also, I think, quite possible that some of the factories in which they will have to work will not be in the places where we should ideally wish to see them. But at any rate our people will have a chance to set up homes and to lead a decent life. That is the immediate necessity in my view, and to that we must all apply our minds
There is a very famous French saying to the effect that the better is the enemy of the good. I do hope that in this country we shall not fall into that error. Some of us like State control; some of us do not like State control. Do not let us allow theoretical political beliefs to warp our action in the emergency which is coming. Let us do without delay whatever immediate necessity requires. Let us judge each case on its merits. That, in my belief, is the only way in which we shall get through this difficult transitional period. After that, when the world is on its feet again and our industries are humming, when new methods of production and distribution are being used for the benefit of mankind, we shall be able to accomplish all those things which now seem so hard. I am not a pessimist about the future. I am a flaming optimist. I believe that if we can avoid another war there is a time of unexampled prosperity coming to the world. But for the moment, while we must abate none of our future aims, we must keep in the forefront of our minds first the war—which has yet to be won—and secondly, the transitional period. If we do that we shall, I believe, not only deserve but receive the thanks of our fellow-countrymen in this generation and the next.
LORD BALFOUR OF BURLEIGH: My Lords, I should like at the outset of the very brief remarks which I wish to address to your Lordships to associate myself with the tributes which were paid by all the speakers to the mover and seconder of the Address. I cannot help thinking that it is an exceptionally happy thought that we should have, as mover and seconder
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of the Address, two noble Lords who are representatives of that not inconsiderable number of your Lordships who are fortunate enough to be able to share the burdens of war in the field.
I have a great advantage in following the noble Viscount, the Leader of the House, in that I have heard the reply to the criticisms which were made by the Leaders of both the Parties opposite. The noble Lord, Lord Addison, had on home affairs two criticisms. One was a criticism of the procedure which is to be adopted by the Government in connexion with social reform. He described it as not very heroic. If I may say so, I think that the noble Viscount, the Leader of the House, made a complete answer to that criticism; I found his argument quite satisfactory. In these very controversial matters which have been the subject of a good deal of discussion, I see no objection to the laying of a White Paper, and to further discussion, and then, assuming we get right decisions, to the introduction of legislation. If I may respectfully say so, I thought that the noble Viscount made a very fair reply to that charge.
On the other count, I confess that I am not so happy. I listened with perhaps more than usual interest to the gracious Speech, because I had so vividly in mind the debate which took place in your Lordships' House only a fortnight ago, when the Government were so good as to accept the Motion after a debate which showed, I think, unanimity in your Lordships' House. I looked with great interest at the gracious Speech, therefore, to see what was contained in it which bore on this matter, and there are some things which I heard and saw with very real pleasure. There is, for example, the sentence:
"You will be invited to pass legislation conferring special powers for the redevelopment of areas which, by reason of enemy action, overcrowding or otherwise, need to be re-planned as a whole."
That is a direct reflection of the debate in which so many of your Lordships took part a fortnight ago, and as far as it goes it is very satisfactory. The next sentence is also of very great interest:
"My Government will lay before you the results of their examination of the Reports which have been made recommending the assumption of further powers to control and direct the use of the land of Great Britain."
There I must admit that my satisfaction

39
is mitigated by the fact that there is no indication of the intention of the Government to make national planning a reality.
The Government are committed, as far as speeches are concerned; to make national planning a reality, but so far nothing has happened to give practical effect to that determination. The main point which emerged from the debate a fortnight ago was that work and homes are interdependent, and that both postulate a national planning policy. In a leading article in The Times on the day following the debate, it was stated that that point stood unequivocally established by the debate, and I do not think that anyone would dispute that. National planning, therefore, is essential. So far, the Government have paid lip service to national planning, but they have done nothing, as far as one can see, to turn that theoretical adherence to national planning into a reality. It is perfectly true that the noble Viscount, the Leader of the House, may say that a Ministry of Town and Country Planning has been set up. That is the biggest piece of lip service which has been paid to national planning so far, because as far as one knows the Minister has not done the first thing to make planning national. So far as one can see, planning might just as well have remained with the Ministry of Health, and therefore one waits with great anxiety to see what is going to happen.
My anxiety is increased because I find in the gracious Speech this sentence:
"In certain fields it is already possible to look beyond the transitional period and to frame proposals for social reforms designed to confer lasting benefits on my people."
The one point that I want to make to your Lordships to-day is that this idea of provisional proposals for a transitional period will not do in the provision of employment and homes, because what is necessary is that at the very beginning the decisions of principle must be taken on which the success or failure of the whole programme will depend. The main decision of principle lies in the field of the main Uthwatt Report—the question of compensation and betterment. I am going to try to illustrate to your Lordships in a very few sentences why this decision of principle on the question of compensation and betterment is a necessary condition préalable of a successful housing policy. Imagine an important county borough
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with a large population, the centre of which has been destroyed by enemy action. We will assume that that centre —a shopping centre, business centre and residential centre—was congested, as was the case in so many of these towns. There are now satisfactory proposals for the globular purchase of that centre by the local authority, or by the Treasury on behalf of the local authority. That centre will be redeveloped, we hope, on more open and less congested lines. There will therefore not be room for all the interests that were there before the war, and so there will be an outward spread of values; and I do not think it can be suggested by anybody that it would be proper, if public money is used for the globular purchase of the area, that the betterment which is going to ensue should entirely escape. It follows, therefore, that we have here a problem of shifting value which must be dealt with on a national basis. There must be a national conception of the location of industry. It will not do to wait, in the words of the noble Viscount, until "industry is humming" to get the ideal arrangements. Unless we can have our planning based on a national conception and on a solution of the compensation and betterment problem, we shall never get satisfactory planning, either in the long or short run.
I should like to illustrate one other technical difficulty in this question of value. I have tried to describe to your Lordships shifting value, but there is also the question of floating value. The borough of which we have been talking may have a green belt round it. You sterilize at great expense that green belt, and the value which would have descended upon that area simply moves somewhere else. It does not disappear but it alights somewhere else. And of course that is the explanation of why the sum total of the market value of land, taken individually, may be twice or three times the sum total of the same land if it were all in one single ownership. That problem has got to be dealt with. And therefore I find it alarming that so far as the use of land is concerned what the gracious Speech promises is to lay before Parliament the results of the examination of the Reports, and that is in contrast to the statement that "in certain fields" it is "possible to look beyond the tran-

41
sitional period." I think that is a most dangerous antithesis, and it really does fill me with alarm.
The noble and gallant mover of the Address referred to the appointment of my noble friend Lord Woolton as a "milestone." I derive, if I may say so without disrespect, more comfort from the appointment of Lord Woolton than I do from the phrases of the most gracious Speech. Since the speech of the noble and gallant mover I have been turning over in my mind what are the characteristics of a milestone. A milestone is solid, informative, and, as a rule, reliable.
LORD WINSTER: Stationary.
LORD BALFOUR OF BURLEIGH: It is stationary, as the noble Lord says. The qualities of a milestone, however ad-mirable, are rather of a static kind, and I think your Lordships will agree that the qualities which my noble friend will want for his new post will partake rather of the dynamic. I am quite certain that the noble Lord will come to his task with an open mind, ready to seize the essentials. That is the only point I want to press upon the Government to-day—that a provisional programme for a transitional period will not do in the question of work and homes. Right decisions of principle have to be taken, they have to be taken now, which is indeed the eleventh hour.
LORD STRABOLGI: My Lords, although I share the disappointments and feelings of frustration of the noble Lord, Lord Ealfour of Burleigh, I hope he will forgive me if I do not follow his arguments on reconstruction. I gather from what fell from the Leader of the House that we are going to have our time very fully occupied in the future wrestling with Lord Woolton on questions of reconstruction, and I hope your Lordships will forgive me if I take this opportunity, which is the last opportunity for some time, apparently, to refer to one or two matters concerned with the war, which has still to be won. And may I offer my congratulations to the noble mover and seconder of the humble Address on their very admirable handling of a most difficult task?
The noble Viscount, Lord Cranborne, was kind enough to give us some account of the events in the Ægean and I thank him for doing so. I should be very sorry to have to give such an explanation my-
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self and I am sure the noble Viscount felt his own position most keenly, for a more laboured and lame apologia for such an extraordinary affair I never before heard in my life. However there it is. We shall have to have another opportunity of discussing it in greater detail. I will only venture to say this. If those troops who were sent in penny packets to half a dozen different islands had all been sent to Rhodes earlier instead of on this little political mission, things might have been different.
VISCOUNT CRANBORNE: What does the noble Lord mean by earlier? Does he mean before the Italian capitulation?
LORD STRABOLGI: Certainly.
VISCOUNT CRANBORNE: At that time the whole garrison of Rhodes would have been against us. Instead of having 9,000 Germans we should have had 49,000 active enemies against us. I do not think that would have been much better.
LORD STRABOLGI: There was a period, a hiatus, between the signing of the Armistice and its publication, a period of six days, from the 2nd to the 8th, and we apparently did not appear for the first time before the 13th. We should certainly have appeared on the 10th.
VISCOUNT CRANBORNE: We appeared at Rhodes on the 9th.
LORD STRABOLGI: At Rhodes, yes; but why did we not appear in force at Rhodes on the 9th? We appeared in some force at Leros and Cos on the 13th. Instead of sending a political mission why did we not send two or three brigades of infantry? That would have made all the difference. The Italians, or many of them, did fight in Rhodes; the trouble was they were betrayed by the Fascist Governor. However, as I say, the noble Viscount made the best of a very difficult task. I wish he had told us when it was that the Germans reinforced their garrison on Rhodes. I understand that most of those 7,000 went after the fall of Mussolini while we were havering and hesitating and allowing the Italians to stew in their own juice. That was when the Germans reinforced Rhodes. That is why I say we were three weeks—or actually six weeks— too late. However, I had not intended to discuss this matter in detail, but the noble Viscount so interested me by his statement that I had to make those comments.

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In the gracious Speech there is only a very brief mention of the heroic struggle of the resistance movements in Europe. The gracious Speech says that "The captive peoples of Europe are everywhere preparing to throw off the yoke of the oppressor." I think that is rather too much of an under-statement. They are fighting very hard in several parts of Europe. In Yugoslavia and Greece large bodies of men are under arms; in France there is a very active and an armed resistance movement which I am sure we all admire. Corsica, mentioned in the gracious Speech and by the noble Viscount, is a case of a yoke having been thrown off. I share the noble Viscount's admiration for the French patriots and for the leaders of the Committee in Algiers for their great success there. Corsica and Sardinia are some compensation for our own setback in the Ægean. When we congratulate ourselves, as we do in the gracious Speech, on having cast the enemy out of Africa, do not let us forget the great advantages we received in that campaign from having the adherence of French Equatorial Africa. The noble Viscount is in as good a position as anyone to bear me out in what I am going to say and I know he will agree. The coming over to us of French Equatorial Africa in 1940 after the capitulation of the French Government in Bordeaux, gave us lines of communication of the greatest value—the noble Lord, Lord Sherwood, knows this—in our Middle East campaign.
Without the help of French Equatorial Africa there would have been no victory of Alamein, or not when it took place at least, and it is doubtful if we could have held Egypt. It is an old saying, and I believe it is true, that he who controls the Chad controls Africa, and the people who brought the Chad to us were those who were then known as the Free French. They also brought us the French Pacific Islands, which have been of tremendous value in the holding campaign against the Japanese. We have a great deal to thank these Free French for, and I am particularly glad that in his remarks about the unhappy events in the Lebanon the noble Viscount did not depart from his invariable courtesy and good feeling for the sentiments of other people. I particularly thank him. It is the only word of praise we have had for some weeks for the French Committee of Liberation from a
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member of His Majesty's Government. They have had a rough time recently and the chivalrous remarks of the noble Viscount will be fully appreciated. The casting out of the enemy from Africa was very largely assisted at the time of the initial landings by the adherents of General de Gaulle already in North Africa.
This French Committee of National Liberation, referred to so generously by the noble Viscount, is, I suppose, as near a Provisional Government representing the Anti-Nazi forces in France as we can look for at the present time. All friends of the real France, the France who fought with us in the last war, and of the French who fought on so many stricken fields in this war—I am sorry the mover of the Address has gone out because I am sure he would pay tribute to the gallantry of the French divisions who fought in the hinterland of Dunkirk—all friends of France must have been saddened by the events in the Lebanon. The French have gone through a period which has left them sensitive, proud, very jealous of their prestige. They are still struggling against the defeatism and despair of that terrible year 1940. It may be that they are too anxious to re-establish their prestige and General de Gaulle, who is subject to a lot of criticism nowadays in quite unexpected quarters, is no doubt not anxious to assist at the liquidation of the French Empire.
As the noble Viscount has said, successive French Governments have been committed to the independence of the Lebanon and the present French régime is really suffering for the procrastination of previous French Governments who of course, we now know, should have followed our example in Iraq and surrendered the Mandate after entering into a treaty with the new Government of the Lebanon before handing over the government of that country. That was not done in the past, and these unhappy people have now to suffer, I repeat, for the procrastination of former Governments in Paris. Apparently they did wish to secure a treaty as we did in the case of Iraq and as we did before giving up the condominium in Egypt. Your Lordships would never have tolerated, and I am sure the other place would not have tolerated—because I was a member of that House at that time—any arrangement with Egypt which did not provide for a treaty agreeable to

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both sides safeguarding our interests there.
In all the circumstances, these arrests referred to in tones of condemnation by the noble Viscount—and his condemnation was justified—these arrests of the President and most of the Cabinet Ministers at Beirut were a blunder. Of course they were a blunder, but there had been provocation. I am sorry that the noble Viscount only very lightly touched on this fact. On October II—as long ago as that—the newly-elected Lebanese Government presented a Bill depriving the French of most of their existing rights. While negotiations were in progress an attempt was made to face the French with an accomplished fact. That was the provocation, and that it was which led to the arrests which, I repeat, were a blunder. But was it really so necessary for us in the face of the whole world to side so openly with the native Government against the French? We could have made our representations, we could have brought pressure to bear behind the scenes. Was it necessary to flaunt to the whole world our hostility to the National Committee in Algiers on this question? I am afraid that, for once, we allowed our good manners to be forgotten—not the noble Viscount who, at any rate, has shown courtesy; but the Press campaign was as violent against the French as any by Dr. Goebbels. The propaganda campaign initiated and stimulated by certain section; of His Majesty's Government was as hostile to the French as—
LORD LATHAM: What sections of His Majesty's Government?
LORD STRABOLGI: The Ministry of Information presumably.
LORD LATHAM: Nonsense.
LORD STRABOLGI: I should, of course, say that I am not speaking for my noble friends but for myself.
LORD LATHAM: I was waiting for that.
LORD STRABOLGI: I am sure my noble friend cannot have read some of the newspaper comments or listened to the wireless.
LORD LATHAM: I have, but who initiated them?
LORD STRABOLGI: I say, as regards the British campaign, it has been done by His Majesty's Government.
LORD LATHAM: Oh!
VISCOUNT ELIBANK: May I ask my noble friend what reason he has for stating that His Majesty's Government initiated this? Can he state the facts, because it is a. very important matter? I am not a member of His Majesty's Government, but I am very interested in this.
LORD STRABOLGI: The noble Viscount surely knows well enough that when suddenly the British radio programmes, and the greater part of the Press come out with an extremely hostile attitude towards our French Ally that can only be done with the agreement of His Majesty's Government, and I go further, because I am challenged, it would not have been done without the Government's stimulus and initiative.
VISCOUNT CRANBORNE: It is unpardonable that the noble Lord should say that. He has got no evidence for this, not the slightest shred. He says "everybody knows," which means that he thinks—that is all it means. We scrupulously guard here the freedom of the Press. It is one of our greatest prides that throughout the war the Press has been able to say what it wishes. It is quite possible that the Press should take a unanimous view on some subject, but that does not mean it has been stimulated by the Government.
LORD STRABOLGI: In that case I accept the statement that this was entirely spontaneous. I will accept that. The British Government had nothing whatever to do with it. In that case, why was no sort of official pronouncement made on behalf of the Government other than these pronouncements—to put it mildly—of unfriendliness to the French Administration? I began by saying that the French Administration committed blunders, but the previous Governments in Paris were most to blame. Could we not have been a little more discreet, a little more understanding, a little more sympathetic to men who have suffered greatly and are perhaps over-sensitive in their pride of recovery?
But the matter has been liquidated for the time being. As the noble Viscount stated, we have the news that the President and the Ministers have been released, and the Lebanese Ministers have been reinstated. We have all read accounts of the populace in Beirut hoisting the flag of Lebanese independence. So the matter has been liquidated for the

47
time being. But we did not succumb to violence in Palestine before the war. That is a neighbouring country, and the population and the problems are in some ways similar. We do not mean to succumb to violence, at any rate during the war, in these countries in the Middle East. Certainly these events, I prophesy, will not make our position easier in the future. It is all right for General Spears to be carried shoulder high by the mob in Beirut, and for us to have messages of congratulation from Middle East potentates; but I am thinking of the future. It will not make our position easier. The Arab world, of which we hear so much at the present time, and which does not exist as an entity at all—the States of the Arab world are seething with nationalism of a very extreme kind which is not over friendly to us. It is nationalism—nobody knows this better than Lord Cranborne—which is anti-European and anti-Christian. We are responsible for very important lines of communication by sea and by air passing through these very regions. There has been a lot of coming and going lately and a lot of talk in connexion with a pan-Arab movement or, as some people call it, a programme of federation of the Arab States. They even talk of a revival of the Caliphate. I wish the noble Viscount could have answered me, but perhaps he will do so on another occasion. Is some future wielder of the Sword of Islam to be the guardian of the Suez Canal and the air routes of the Middle East? I am all for some international authority to guard the vital lines of communication of the peacefully-inclined peoples of the world in future. That is one of the great problems we shall have to tackle, but in the meantime we are responsible for, and we are going to guard, these lines of communication. I am sure there is no doubt about that.
I am not defending Imperialism of the old-fashioned type. I have spent a good many years attacking Imperialism in different parts of the world, and I hope I shall go on attacking it for a good many years to come. So much am I not defending Imperialism that I hope very much, as a result of these events, the United States of America will in the immediate future play a much greater role with us
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and with the French in guarding the interests of the United Nations in those regions, the regions of the so-called Arab-speaking world, or the Middle East as it is called, during the course of the war. In that connexion there is talk of commercial spheres of interest, and new oilfields in the Arabic-speaking world. I reject all such suggestions altogether. They are absolutely unworthy of the cause for which we are fighting. I believe that the solution of the immediate difficulties, and there will be difficulties in the Middle East, is to be found in the closest possible working together of ourselves, the United States of America and France. We are all three members of the United Nations who have the immense responsibility of guarding these lines of communication and preserving order in a very difficult part of the world.
LORD WINSTER: My Lords, I do not rise for one moment to enter into any controversy with my noble friend who has just spoken. If I may say so, whether I agree with him or not I admire the courage with which he puts forward his points of view on such matters. The only thing that came to my notice was this. These affairs in the Lebanon being so difficult and so anxious, I think it is most important that no single word of criticism or of condemnation of the conduct of the British Minister in Beirut should go out from this House. It does appear to me that our Minister there has had a most difficult and a most anxious task which, to say the least of it, has not been facilitated by the failure of his French colleague to consult him or to keep him fully informed. I do hope that in any opinion which your Lordships' House may have about these matters in the Lebanon it will not be thought that there is any criticism of the conduct of our affairs by the British Minister in Beirut. Affairs in regard to the Arab world are most difficult, and are of very grave concern to us at the present moment. Those affairs cannot possibly be facilitated or helped if it were felt that in any way there was criticism of the conduct of our staff there.
VISCOUNT TRENCHARD: May I ask a question which I hope the noble Viscount, the Leader of the House, will answer if he can do so without embarrassing the Government. I should like to know whether any aircraft carriers were used at Cos or Leros.
VISCOUNT CRANBORNE: So far as I know, not.
On Question, Motion agreed to nemine dissentiente; the said Address to be presented to His Majesty by the Lords with White Staves.

CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES.
VISCOUNT CRANBORNE: My Lords, I beg to move that the Earl of Onslow be appointed to take the Chair in all Committees of this House for this Session.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to nemine dissentiente.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
VISCOUNT CRANBORNE: My Lords, I beg to move to resolve, That whenever during the present Session of Parliament the House stands adjourned, and it appears to the satisfaction of the Lord Chancellor (or if the Lord Chancellor is absent, to the satisfaction of the Lord Chairman of Committees after consultation with His Majesty's Government) that the public interest requires that the House should meet at any earlier times during such adjournment, the Lord Chancellor or the Lord Chairman of Committees, as the case may be, may give notice to the Peers that he is so satisfied, and thereupon the House shall meet at the time stated in such Notice, and shall transact its business at if it had been duly adjourned to that time.
Moved to resolve, That whenever during the present Session of Parliament the House stands adjourned, and it appears to the satisfaction of the Lord Chancellor (or if the Lord Chancellor is absent, to the satisfaction of the Lord Chairman of Committees after consultation with His Majesty's Government) that the public interest requires that the House should meet at any earlier time during such adjournment, the Lord Chancellor or the Lord Chairman of Committees, as the case may be, may give notice to the Peers that he is so satisfied, and thereupon the House shall meet at the time stated in such Notice, and shall transact its business as if it had been duly adjourned to that time.—(Viscount Cranborne.)
On Question, Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly.
Committee for Privileges—Appointed.
Committee for the Journals—Appointed.
Appeal Committee—Appointed.
Stoppages in the Streets—Order to prevent, renewed.

THE EARL OF NORBURY.
Report made from the Lord Chancellor that Ronald Ian Montagu, Earl of Norbury in the Peerage of Ireland, has established his succession to the Earldom of Norbury and his right to vote at any Elections of Representative Peers for Ireland which may be held in future under the statutes in force relating thereto, to the satisfaction of the Lord Chancellor; read, and ordered to lie on the Table.
Ordered, That the Report of the Lord Chancellor made to the House of Lords this day, that Ronald Ian Montagu, Earl of Norbury in the Peerage of Ireland, has established his succession to the Earldom of Norbury and his right to vote at any Elections of Representative Peers for Ireland which may be held in future under the statutes in force relating thereto, to his satisfaction, be sent to the Clerk of the Crown in Ireland, together with a certificate stating that such Report has been made, and that the House has ordered it to be sent to the said Clerk of the Crown in Ireland.

STOURPORT GAS ORDER, 1943.
Special Order proposed to be made by the Ministry of Fuel and Power, on the application of the Stourport Gas Company:
Laid before the House (pursuant to Act) for affirmative Resolution and referred to the Special Orders Committee.

THORNTON CLEVELEYS GAS ORDER, 1943.
Special Order, proposed to be made by the Ministry of Fuel and Power, on the application of the Urban District of Thornton Cleveleys:
Laid before the House (pursuant to Act) for affirmative Resolution and referred to the Special Orders Committee.
House adjourned.