Sitting of 27 March 1931

Preamble
The House met at half past eleven of the clock, The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (LORD PASSFIELD): My Lords, I beg to move that Standing Order No. XXXIX be considered in order to its being suspended for this day's business.
Moved, That Standing Order No. XXXIX be considered in order to its being suspended for this day's business.—(Lord Passfield.)
On Question, Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly.

CONSOLIDATED FUND (No. 2) BILL.
Brought from the Commons endorsed with a Certificate from the Speaker that the Bill is a Money Bill within the meaning of the Parliament Act, 1911, and read 1a.
Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 2a: Committee negatived; Bill read 3a and passed.

LONDON PASSENGER TRANSPORT BILL.
Message from the Commons that they have appointed a Committee to consist of five members to join with a Committee of this House to consider the said Bill and to request this House to appoint an equal number of Lords to be joined with the members of their House.
Order of the Day read for the consideration of the Report from the Committee of Selection: That the following Lords be proposed to the House to form the Select Committee to join with the Select Committee of the House of Commons for the consideration of the said Bill, namely:

E. Lytton,

L. Monteagle (M. Sligo),

L. Clanwilliam (E. Clanwilliam),

L. Clwyd,

L. Sanderson.

THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (THE EARL OF DONOUGHMOKE): My Lords, I beg to move that this Report be now considered and adopted.
Moved accordingly, and on Question, Motion agreed to.
Ordered, That such Committee have power to agree with the Committee of the House of Commons in the appointment of a Chairman.
Then a Message was ordered to be sent to the Commons to inform them of the appointment of the said Committee by this House and to propose that the Joint Committee do meet in the Grand Committee Room, Westminster Hall, on Tuesday, the 28th of April next, at eleven o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS (DISQUALIFICATION) BILL.
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR (LORD SANKEY): My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read. a. second time. The objects will be gathered from its Title and Preamble. The Title is as follows:—
"An Act to remove doubts as to the scope of the House of Commons (Disqualification) Act, 1782, and of Section four of the House of Commons (Disqualifications) Act, 1801."
And the Preamble states:—
"Whereas doubts have arisen whether the provisions of the House of Commons (Disqualification) Act, 1782. and Section four of the House of Commons (Disqualifications) Act, 1801 (which disable persons concerned in contracts, agreements or commissions made or entered into, under or from such persons as are mentioned in the said enactments, for or on account of the public service, from being elected or sitting and voting as members of the Commons House of Parliament) do or do not extend to certain classes of contracts, agreements and commissions:"
The Act of 1782, which was in fact applied to Ireland by the Act of 1801, was familiarly known as the "Contractors' Bill", and its. history is beyond dispute. At that time it was generally acknowledged that excessive profits were being made in a corrupt way by contractors who were supplying war material and money for the purpose of carrying on the American War. The Act struck at those who entered into such contracts and those who carried them on, and

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embraced two classes of such persons: (1) Any person who undertakes, executes, holds or enjoys any contract, agreement or commission made or entered into with the Commissioners of the Treasury, Navy or Victualling Office, or Board of Ordinance, or with any other person, for or on account of the public services; and(2) any person who knowingly furnishes or provides in pursuance of any such agreement, contract or commission which may have been entered into as aforesaid, any money to be remitted abroad or any wares or merchandise to be used or employed in the service of the public.
Any Member of Parliament coming within these provisions was disqualified and subject to a penalty of £500 a day as long as he continued to sit. The penalty can be sued for by a common informer and cannot be remitted except by an Act of Parliament. Although it is, I believe, generally admitted that the Act was meant to cover mercantile contracts as distinct from contracts dealing with land, the view in favour of a wide construction has prevailed and has led latterly to difficulties which it is desirable to remove. In some cases Indemnity Acts have been passed to protect a Member of Parliament who had unwittingly done something which clearly brought him within the provisions of the Act, but it is felt that there should no longer be any doubt as to the meaning of the section.
The present need arises that justice should be done in the case of Lord Cranborne, who is Member for South Dorset, but it is not only in his case that this Bill is necessary if a very strict interpretation is to be put upon the old Act. The facts of Lord Cranborne's case are as follows:—In 1912 Lord Salisbury, the father of the noble Lord, entered into an agreement with the Postmaster-General for a year-to-year tenancy of the post office building at Hatfield. Some years later Lord Salisbury's interests in a number of properties were assigned to his son. Lord Cranborne, and among them there happened to be this tenancy, for which he has properly received the rent. It has been suggested that this brings him within the provisions of the Act, though the contention seems to be somewhat farfetched, and would certainly, in my view, have appeared to be so to the promoters of the Act. It has even been
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suggested, though I can hardly think seriously, that if the words were strictly interpreted it might even cover the case of a contract for a telephone in the house of a Member of Parliament or to a telephone wire way-leave (paid by the Postmaster-General, who pays half a crown) in respect of a line attached to a house. This would be an intolerable situation.
The present Bill is to make it abundantly clear that the Act is directed against those cases where money or goods were being supplied for the service of the Crown by persons who were entering into contracts with Government Departments, and not to cases like Lord Cranborne's and other such cases. The Bill was rapidly passed in the House of Commons on Wednesday last without a division.
I really do not feel justified in detaining your Lordships longer upon such a matter, and I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(The Lord Chancellor.)
VISCOUNT HAILSHAM: My Lords, I only rise to say that I think all your Lordships will agree with the statement which has fallen from the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack. Obviously this is a case in which the mischief which the original Act was designed to remove is something poles apart from the circumstances which have actually arisen. Since a doubt has been expressed, it is an intolerable position that members of the House of Commons should remain uncertain whether or not they may have forfeited their seats owing to a construction being placed upon an Act of Parliament which was never originally intended. The only means of getting over that difficulty that I can see would be an action by a common informer for £500 a day penalty. That would mean thousands of pounds and that again is a burden which it is not reasonable to expect any member in another place to have to face in order to determine the law. It seems to me that the Government have taken a very proper course in removing the doubt which has been raised and I certainly support the Second Reading of the Bill.
On Question, Bill read 2a, and (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been sus-

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pended) committed to a Committee of the Whole House forthwith.
House in Committee accordingly: Bill reported without amendment: Bill read 3a, and passed.

WILLS AND INTESTACIES (FAMILY MAINTENANCE) BILL.
Order of the Day read for the consideration of Commons Message of the 18th March acquainting the House that they have appointed a Committee of six members to join with a Committee of this House to consider the Wills and Intestacies (Family Maintenance) Bill.
Moved, That the Commons Message be now considered.—(The Lord Chancellor.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR: My
Lords, it will be within your Lordships' recollection that about 10 or 12 days ago, by a vote of your Lordships' House, it was agreed that there should be a Joint Select Committee to consider the Wills and Intestacies (Family Maintenance) Bill. I now beg to move that a Committee of six of your Lordships be appointed to join with the Committee of the other House to consider the Bill, and that the members of the Committee should be those noble Lords whose names are printed on the Paper.
Moved, That a Committee of six Lords be appointed to join with the Committee of the House of Commons to consider the said Bill as mentioned in the said Message, and that the Lords following be named of the Committee:

L. Fairfax of Cameron,

L. Monk Bretton,

L. Charnwood,

L. Cozens-Hardy,

L. Russell of Liverpool,

L. Thankerton.

—(The Lord Chancellor.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Ordered, That such Committee have power to agree with the Committee of the Commons in the appointment of a Chairman.
Then a Message was ordered to be sent to the Commons to inform them of the appointment of the said Committee by
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this House and to propose that the Joint. Committee do meet in Committee Room C on Wednesday, the 29th of April next, at half-past eleven o'clock.
House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed.

ROYAL COMMISSION.
The following Bills, and Measures passed in accordance with Section 4 of the Church of England Assembly (Powers) Act, 1919, received the Royal Assent:—

Consolidated Fund (No. 2),

Acquisition of Land (Assessment of Compensation) (Scotland),

Metropolitan Police (Staff Superannuation and Police Fund),

House of Commons Disqualification (Declaration of Law),

Public Works Facilities Scheme (Wick Harbour) Confirmation,

Ministry of Health Provisional Orders (Gloucestershire, Warwickshire and Worcestershire),

Calder and Hebble Navigation,

New Junction Canal,

Walthamstow Corporation,

Preston Corporation,

City of London (Various Powers),

Episcopal Pensions (Sodor and Man) Measure,

Ecclesiastical Commissioners (Loans for Church Training Colleges) Measure.

House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed.

THE RECESS.
LORD PASSFIELD: My Lords, I beg to move that the House do adjourn until Tuesday, April 21 next.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
House adjourned at ten minutes past noon.