Sitting of 15 December 1922

Preamble
The House met at Eleven of the Clock, Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS.

  UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT (E. MORGAN).
  Mr. BARKERasked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that Evan Morgan, Woodfield Terrace, Coedcae, Nantyglo, Monmouthshire, has been refused unemployment insurance benefit from 27th October, 1922, because he refused to work at Pwllfaron Colliery, Glyn, Neath, under alleged conditions where his lamp became extinguished by gas; and will he have this case specially investigated respecting these allegations, and with a view of payment being made to Morgan if his condition of employment was as stated?
  The MINISTER of LABOUR (Sir Montague Barlow): As I have already informed the hon. Member, I am making inquiries locally and will communicate the result to him as soon as possible.
  Mr. BARKER: Will the man be represented at an inquiry?
  Sir M. BARLOW: Representation according to the ordinary procedure will be allowed. I am not quite certain exactly what the normal procedure is, but I will see that the normal procedure, whatever it is, shall be followed.

  MONEYLENDERS' CIRCULARS.
  Mr. GILBERTasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been drawn to the great increase of moneylenders' circulars now being sent out to Members of this House and the general public, some of them being sent by ½d. circular
  3352
  post, which enables them to be opened and read by anyone; and whether he will consider as to obtaining powers to prevent circulars of this kind being sent through the ½d. circular post?
  The SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. Bridgeman): I am consulting my right hon. Friend the Postmaster-General on this subject.

  GOVERNMENT OFFICES (WOMEN).
  Viscountess ASTORasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he has recently received a deputation from the Association of Ex-Service Civil Servants with reference to the further substitution of women in Government offices; and whether any action differing from that laid down in the Lytton Report is in contemplation?
  Major BARNSTON (Comptroller of the Household): The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative; to the second part that, as recommended by Lord Lytton's Committee, temporary non-service personnel in Government Departments will continue to be substituted, wherever possible, by ex-service men.
  Viscountess ASTOR: Have any of the women's organisations concerned been consulted on the matter?
  Major BARNSTON: I am afraid that I cannot answer that question.
  Viscountess ASTOR: It is very important. Might I have an answer?
  Major BARNSTON: I will send representations to my right hon. Friend.

  RAILWAY PARCELS RATES.
  Mr. GILBERTasked the Postmaster-General whether his attention has been called to the new and cheaper small-parcel rates issued by the railway companies to come into force next year; and whether, in view of these reductions, he proposes to reduce the parcel-post rates for similar weights on small parcels?
  The POSTMASTER GENERAL (Mr. Neville Chamberlain): I am aware that temporary reductions in parcels rate are

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  about to be made by the railway companies, but I cannot at present make any statement on the subject referred to in the question.

  EGYPT (MARTIAL LAW).
  Lieut.-Colonel JAMESasked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether his attention has been drawn to the repeated statements that martial law in Egypt is used for the purpose of suppressing the legitimate expression of political views, and whether there is any foundation for such statements?
  The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. Ronald McNeill): In no case has any person in Egypt been interned or exiled on account of his political opinions. Recourse has only been had to martial law where solemn warnings to abstain from language or action calculated to provoke disorder and bloodshed were disregarded. There is little doubt that the outrages which have occurred in Egypt during the present year have been due to agitation of this nature.

  PROROGATION (QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE).
  Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Bow and Bromley (Mr. Lansbury) has given me notice that he wishes to raise a question of privilege. Now is the time for him to raise it.
  Mr. LANSBURY: The point of privilege which I wish to raise is whether, before Black Rod is admitted, later on, it will be in order for me to move the Resolutions of which I have given notice. I have taken the trouble to go through, to some extent, the Commons Debate of 1629, and I have also gone to the outer Lobby and looked at the picture there, which the House of Commons ordered to be placed on the walls, of the remarkable scene that took place when certain Members of the House wished to enforce the right of the House to decide for itself whether it should or should not adjourn, and so conserve its liberty to meet and debate public questions without interference from the Crown or from any outside body. On that occasion, as you will remember—[Laughter]—I do not think
  3354
  that it is a laughing matter. You would not put up the picture if it were a laughing matter. I think that you meant by putting up the picture to prove to the people who come in their shoals that the House of Commons is a free and independent Assembly, and is competent and has the right to represent the Commons of England without interference from any outside body, however highly placed.
  On that occasion the door was locked and, as you will remember, the men who held your predecessor in the Chair so as to prevent an adjournment are looked upon as the preservers of our privileges and rights as Members of this House. I understand from you that you consider that, if the Consolidated Fund Bill is passed, then the House, by passing this Bill, assents to its adjournment. I tried to find in Sir Erskine May's book some justification for that point of view, but all that I can find is that the House cannot be prorogued until the Appropriation Bill or Consolidated Fund Bill is passed, but I cannot find anything which says that when that Bill is passed the House must be adjourned. Some of us feel a responsibility in this respect. There has been considerable discussion of the question of unemployment, and we are going to be asked to-day to break up without having done anything effective for the men and women of this country. I do not deny that certain things have been done and certain money has been voted for it, but I am unable to see that anything effective has been done. I understand, from the little reading which I did before I came here, that the men who fought for the right to continue the sittings of this House considered that the country was in great danger from political action by the Monarch at that time, and, because of that danger, they insisted that this House should be kept in Session. I cannot imagine that the condition of England 300 years ago could possibly have been worse than at the present moment for the working classes. I feel that it is a crime against the working classes for us to go home without having done anything. I know that I may be told that we have spoken and, perhaps, not put any constructive proposals before the House. [HON. MEMBERS: "No!"]
  Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. Member must confine himself to a point of privilege.

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  He cannot argue the merits of the question. If he will make his observations on the point of privilege, I shall be prepared to give a ruling when he has finished.
  Mr. LANSBURY: I am rather prone to trying to anticipate the objections to what I am saying. The privilege which I claim is this. As I understand the Constitution—I am not a lawyer and I am afraid I am not considered to be a Constitutionalist—the King can do no wrong, because the Ministers represent the King. I know that they represent the majority in the House, but I claim the right, as an individual Member of this House, to be able to say here when Black Rod comes that, in my opinion, the House ought not to respond to Black Rod and go to the House of Lords to be prorogued. I think that all Members have the right collectively and individually to say whether they agree to the House being prorogued or not, and it is that point which I wish to put to you. I put it on the ground that this precedent, which we have in the picture outside and as to which every Member I am sure is proud, to think of what our predecessors did on that occasion is still in existence, and that therefore we are able to claim the right to-day to move, when Black Rod comes, that we shall not respond to his invitation to go to the House of Lords.
  Mr. SPEAKER: I think that the hon. Member has overlooked the relevant passages in Sir Erskine May's book on Parliamentary Procedure. If he refers in that book to page 49, which deals with the question of Prorogation, he will see it clearly stated that the summoning of Parliament and the proroguing of Parliament are matters for the Crown. The hon. Member has referred to the interesting picture, now in St. Stephen's Hall, representing the scene when one of my predecessors was held in the Chair, from which he wished to retire. If hon. Members will pursue their studies a little more deeply, they will understand the meaning of that picture, because it is still preserved in our Parliamentary procedure. When we come to the next Session of Parliament, a full Session, they will observe that before I am allowed to leave the Chair, and before the Commons will enter into Committee of Supply, the Question has to be put to the House, "That the Speaker do now leave the
  3356
  Chair." The hon. Member is right in claiming—I quite understand the substance of his claim—that since that incident the House has always jealously preserved its right of not entering into Committee of Supply, and, therefore, not letting the Speaker leave the Chair for Committee of Supply to begin until it has had an opportunity of discussing its grievances.
  The hon. Member will find that there will be a ballot for Notices of Motion next Session, before the House enters into Committee of Supply on the various Estimates for the year, for the Civil Service, the Army and Navy, and also, in more recent days, the Air Force. That is enshrined in our present-day procedure and follows the precedent of the incident in the picture to which the hon. Member has referred. So we are a very long way from departing from that incident of our constitutional history. The hon. Member claims that the coming of Black Rod with a message from the Crown enables him to raise a question of privilege. That really is not so. That, as much as the other, is part of our Constitution. The claim of the hon. Member reduced to its elementary substance is this: That His Majesty the King, instead of being advised by his Ministers, who base themselves on the support of the majority of this House, should be advised by the minority, represented by the hon. Member and his friends. I can imagine nothing less constitutional, and, therefore, I am bound to say that no question of privilege can arise.
  Mr. RAMSAY MacDONALD: In order further to elucidate this very interesting point, may I ask your ruling on this: The constitutional assumption is that His Majesty's Ministers advise His Majesty that Parliament should be prorogued today. Would it not be in order if an hon. Member, before Black Rod comes, were to move, "That this House do now adjourn"? Would not that Motion be in order and might it not be divided upon before Black Rod Comes?
  Mr. SPEAKER: No. The Motion, "That this House do now adjourn," by Standing Orders can only be proposed by the Minister, except, of course, in cases under Standing Order No. 10, which stand on a different basis.
  Captain WEDGWOOD BENN: Does this mean that it lies really with the Prime Minister not only to decide when the House shall rise and its Debates cease, but also when it shall meet again, and that no Members of the House have any power to alter the decision?
  Mr. NEWBOLD: Is the Prime Minister an integral part of our Constitution at all?
  Mr. SPEAKER: There is something to be said for what the hon. Member has raised as a nice point of the Constitution, but I do not think it is quite relevant to the case we have in hand. With regard to the question of the hon. and gallant Member for Leith (Captain Benn), it is clear in our Constitution that it rests with His Majesty the King. It is set out in page 49 of Sir Erskine May's book on Parliamentary Procedure that the summoning and proroguing of Parliament are matters for His Majesty the King.
  Mr. McENTEE: Is there any means by which any number of Members of this House can secure a re-assembly of Parliament before the time mentioned, for the purpose of considering matters of grave national importance?
  Mr. SPEAKER: They can always make representations to His Majesty's advisers.
  Mr. LANSBURY: The statement of Sir Erskine May is that His Majesty calls Parliament and prorogues Parliament on the advice of his Ministers. As I understand from you, Sir, the majority of the House is behind the Ministers. But my point is that on this particular question the House has not said anything at all. It has not passed a Motion that we want to adjourn or that we do not want to adjourn, and, therefore, His Majesty cannot know whether the House wants to adjourn or not.
  Mr. SPEAKER: The House, by a considerable majority, granted the Supply which was asked for.
  Mr. LANSBURY: Not all our grievances have been discussed. This is a particular grievance that we want to bring before the House.
  Mr. PRINGLE: Is it not the case that the only constitutional way of preventing the Prorogation was to have voted against the Consolidated Fund Bill?
  Mr. SPEAKER: That was the advice which I gave privately to the hon. Member.
  Mr. LANSBURY: I do not want to detain the House any longer, except to say that I am still unconverted. I want to thank you, Mr. Speaker, very much indeed for the kind way in which you have dealt with the matter, and to say that my only object in raising it was exactly what I said here to-day.
  Mr. SPEAKER: I am very much obliged to the hon. Member for the way in which he has put the matter to me. If he desires to raise a Debate on any constitutional question, I imagine that there will be many Tuesday and Wednesday evenings when we meet again, and I shall listen with great interest to any fresh point he wishes to bring forward on the constitutional issue.

  MESSAGE FEOM THE LORDS.
  That they have agreed to—
  Consolidated Fund (Appropriation Bill.
  Importation of Animals Bill, without Amendment.

ROYAL ASSENT.
Message to attend the Lords Commissioners.
The House went, and, having returned,
Mr. SPEAKER: I have to acquaint the House that the House has been to the House of Peers, where a Commission under the Great Seal was read authorising the Royal Assent to

1. Appropriation Act, 1922 (Session 2).

2. Trade Facilities and Loans Guarantee Act, 1922 (Session 2).

3. Importation of Animals Act, 1922 (Session 2).

4. Dundee High School Order Confirmation Act, 1922 (Session 2).

5. Glasgow (Tramways, etc.) Order Confirmation Act, 1922 (Session 2).

6. Scottish Widows' Fund and Life Assurance Society's Order Confirmation Act, 1922 (Session 2).

7. Edinburgh Corporation Order Confirmation Act, 1922 (Session 2).

8. East Lothian (Western District) Water Order Confirmation Act, 1922 (Session 2).

PROROGATION.

  HIS MAJESTY'S MOST GRACIOUS SPEECH.
  Mr. SPEAKER: I have further to acquaint the House that the Lord High Chancellor, being one of the High Commissioners, delivered His Majesty's Most Gracious Speech to both Houses of
  3392
  Parliament, in pursuance of His Majesty's Command, as followeth:
  My Lords and Members of the House of Commons,
  The discussion of problems affecting the peace of the Near East is proceeding at Lausanne, and I earnestly trust that a satisfactory solution will shortly be reached.
  The execution of the Treaty of Peace with Germany has again been the subject of conversations between My Ministers and the Ministers of the Allied Powers. These conversations will be resumed in Paris at an early date.
  The task of restoring conditions favourable to economic stability in Europe continues to give Me deep concern. The difficulties are great and complex, and can only be overcame by patient and sincere co-operation between the nations primarily affected.
  Members of the House of Commons,
  I thank you for the provision you have made for the public service.
  My Lords and Members of the House of Commons,
  I have given My Absent to Measures for the final enactment of the Constitution of the Irish Free State and for the consequent necessary provisions. It is My earnest prayer that the passing of these Measures may mark the inauguration of a period of prosperity and concord both for Ireland and for Great Britain.
  An Act has been passed to continue and extend the measures already taken for improving trade, and. My Ministers will continue to examine with great care all possible measures for dealing with Unemployment.
  The condition of the agricultural industry, which is unfortunately passing through a period of serious depression, is receiving the careful consideration of My Ministers in the hope that means may be found to

  3393
  alleviate some of the difficulties confronting both farmers and labourers.
  I have assented to a Bill to give effect to the Agreement entered into by My late Government with the representatives of the Government of My Dominion of Canada, for the amend
  3394
  ment of the law with respect to the landing of imported animals in Great Britain.
  It is My earnest prayer that the blessing of the Almighty may rest upon all your labours.
  End of the First Session (opened 20th November, 1922) of the Thirty-second Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, in the thirteenth year of the Reign of His Majesty King George the Fifth.

ROYAL NAVY.
  PENSIONER SERVICE.
  PENSIONER SERVICE.
  NEW BATTLESHIPS (EMPLOYMENT, MERSEYSIDE).
  NEW BATTLESHIPS (EMPLOYMENT, MERSEYSIDE).
  DRIFTERS AND TRAWLERS.
  DRIFTERS AND TRAWLERS.
  WARSHIPS (BREAKING-UP, DOVER).
  WARSHIPS (BREAKING-UP, DOVER).
BRITISH ARMY.
  RETIRED OFFICERS (REINSTATEMENT).
  RETIRED OFFICERS (REINSTATEMENT).
  7/9TH BATTALION ROVAL SCOTS (DRESS).
  7/9TH BATTALION ROVAL SCOTS (DRESS).
  McGRIGOR'S BANK.
  McGRIGOR'S BANK.
UNEMPLOYMENT.
  RELIEF WORKS, SCOTLAND.
  RELIEF WORKS, SCOTLAND.
  BENEFIT REFUSED, TIPTON.
  BENEFIT REFUSED, TIPTON.
  ASSOCIATIONS AND SOCIETIES (ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES).
  ASSOCIATIONS AND SOCIETIES (ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES).
  ROTA COMMITTEES.
  ROTA COMMITTEES.
  WAR MEMORIAL SCHEMES.
  WAR MEMORIAL SCHEMES.
HOUSING.
  LOCAL AUTHORITIES (BOND ISSUES).
  LOCAL AUTHORITIES (BOND ISSUES).
  LAND (SALE).
  LAND (SALE).
  ASSISTED SCHEMES.
  ASSISTED SCHEMES.
  POOR LAW RELIEF.
  POOR LAW RELIEF.
  RETAIL BESPOKE TAILORING TRADE (WAGES).
  RETAIL BESPOKE TAILORING TRADE (WAGES).
NAVAL AND MILITARY PENSIONS AND GRANTS.
  WIDOW'S PENSION (MRS. E. HACKETT).
  WIDOW'S PENSION (MRS. E. HACKETT).
  ALIEN WORKPEOPLE.
  ALIEN WORKPEOPLE.
  ARMY RESERVE (GUNNER HARDY).
  ARMY RESERVE (GUNNER HARDY).
  FINAL AWARDS.
  FINAL AWARDS.
  NELSON AND RODNEY PENSIONS
  NELSON AND RODNEY PENSIONS
GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS.
  TEMPORARY STAFFS (PAY).
  TEMPORARY STAFFS (PAY).
  WOMEN TAX CLERKS.
  WOMEN TAX CLERKS.
  MOTOR VEHICLES (IMPORT DUTY).
  MOTOR VEHICLES (IMPORT DUTY).
  NATIONAL SAVINGS COMMITTEE.
  NATIONAL SAVINGS COMMITTEE.
  INCOME TAX.
  INCOME TAX.
  QUEENSFERRY FACTORY (SALE).
  QUEENSFERRY FACTORY (SALE).
  BOARD OF HEALTH, WALES.
  BOARD OF HEALTH, WALES.
  CONVICTS (MAINTENANCE COST).
  CONVICTS (MAINTENANCE COST).
  DEATH SENTENCES (PREROGATIVE OF MERCY).
  DEATH SENTENCES (PREROGATIVE OF MERCY).
  ESTIMATES COMMITTEE.
  ESTIMATES COMMITTEE.
  ROYAL IRISH CONSTABULARY.
  ROYAL IRISH CONSTABULARY.
  EMIGRATION.
  EMIGRATION.
  FINLAND (COMMERCIAL TREATY).
  FINLAND (COMMERCIAL TREATY).
  RUSSIAN SUBJECTS (PASSPORTS TO ENGLAND).
  RUSSIAN SUBJECTS (PASSPORTS TO ENGLAND).
  SMYRNA (CONSUL'S REPORT).
  SMYRNA (CONSUL'S REPORT).
  HUNGARY (COUNT KAROLYI).
  HUNGARY (COUNT KAROLYI).
  INDIAN GOVERNMENT STORES (PURCHASES).
  INDIAN GOVERNMENT STORES (PURCHASES).
  IMPORTATION OF ANIMALS ACT.
  IMPORTATION OF ANIMALS ACT.
  DEFECTIVES SCHOOL, TOTTENHAM.
  DEFECTIVES SCHOOL, TOTTENHAM.
SCOTLAND.
  WAGES OF AGRICULTURAL WORKERS.
  WAGES OF AGRICULTURAL WORKERS.
  EDUCATION RATE (FIFE).
  EDUCATION RATE (FIFE).
  ILLEGAL TRAWLING.
  ILLEGAL TRAWLING.
  CENOTAPH (ITALIAN TRIBUTE).
  CENOTAPH (ITALIAN TRIBUTE).
  DIVORCE (SUPREME COURT RULES).
  DIVORCE (SUPREME COURT RULES).
  QUARRIES (ROAD FUND GRANTS).
  QUARRIES (ROAD FUND GRANTS).
UNEMPLOYMENT.
  DUMFRIES ROADS (REPAIR).
  DUMFRIES ROADS (REPAIR).
  OSSETT CORPORATION (RELIEF WORK).
  OSSETT CORPORATION (RELIEF WORK).
  MOTOR CARS (DAZZLING HEADLIGHTS).
  MOTOR CARS (DAZZLING HEADLIGHTS).
POST OFFICE.
  LETTER DELIVERY, PONTARDAWE, SWANSEA.
  LETTER DELIVERY, PONTARDAWE, SWANSEA.
  WIRELESS STATION, ONGAR.
  WIRELESS STATION, ONGAR.
  ADVERTISEMENTS POSTED ABROAD.
  ADVERTISEMENTS POSTED ABROAD.
  EARLSFIELD BRANCH POST OFFICE, WANDSWORTH (TELEGRAMS).
  EARLSFIELD BRANCH POST OFFICE, WANDSWORTH (TELEGRAMS).
  ALBANIANS IN GREECE.
  ALBANIANS IN GREECE.
  ILLEGAL TRAWLING, NORTH OF SCOTLAND.
  ILLEGAL TRAWLING, NORTH OF SCOTLAND.
Preamble
The House met at eleven of the clock, The LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY): My Lords, I beg to move the suspension of Standing Order No. XXXIX.
Moved, That Standing Order No. XXXIX he considered in order to its being dispensed with for the purpose of taking the following Bill through all its stages, Consolidated Fund (Appropriation).—(The Marquess of Salisbury.)
On Question, Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly.

IMPORTATION OF CATTLE BILL.
Read 3a (according to Order), and passed.

HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICES.
Order of the Day read for the consideration of the First and Second Reports from the Select Committee.
The Committee reported inter alia:—

FIRST REPORT.
1. RETIREMENT OF SIR ALBERT GRAY, K.C.B., K.C., COUNSEL TO THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES, AND APPOINTMENT OF HIS SUCCESSOR.
The Chairman of Committees informed the Committee that his Counsel, Sir Albert Gray, K.C.B., K.C., had expressed his desire to resign his post as from the 1st of January, 1923.
Sir Albert Gray's long and distinguished services, extending over a, period of 26 years, are well known to the house. The Committee wish to record their appreciation of Sir Albert's devotion to duty, and their great regret that he should feel it necessary to sever his official connection with the House.
The Chairman of Committees has appointed the Hon. Hugh Godley, of the Parliamentary Counsel's Office, to be Sir Albert, Gray's successor.
2. SIR ALBERT GRAY'S PENSION.
The Committee, in accordance with precedent, have authorised the grant of a pension to Sir Albert Gray as from the date of his retirement, calculated in the usual way in accordance with the Superannuation Act, 1859. The amount of the, pension so calculated is £780. There will also be a supplement under the new Treasury agreement, amounting at present to £86 13s. 4d., but this supplement is subject to quarterly revision.
3. SEPPLY OF FITTINGS FOR CERTAIN OF THE MUNIMENT ROOMS IN THE VICTORIA TOWER.
The Clerk of the Parliaments informed the Committee that owing to certain of the muniment rooms in the Victoria Tower being required by the Clerk of the Crown for the storage of election ballot papers, it had been found necessary to transfer from them a large quantity of Parliamentary plans for which no suitable accommodation is now available. He pointed out that these plans, which am constantly increasing, are frequently consulted and should be readily accessible.
The Committee recommend that an estimate of £200 should be authorised for the purpose.
4. ARRANGEMENTS BETWEEN THE LIBRARIANS OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS AND HOUSE OF COMMONS TO FACILITATE THE DISPOSAL OF DUPLICATE BOOKS AND PAPERS.
The Clerk of the Parliaments informed the Committee that in conformity with a suggestion made by the Earl of Crawford and Balcarres, who was then First Commissioner of Works, at the last meeting of the Committee, the, two Librarians had met and arrived at an arrangement by which it was hoped that the immediate difficulty with regard to space for books in the House of Commons had been solved by the removal to the Record Office of a large number of House of Lords Sessional Papers covering the period 1800–1873. This removal had been rendered possible by the Librarian of the House of Lords giving facilities to the Librarian of the House of Commons for access to these papers, which are kept in the corridor outside the House of Lords Library.
5. RETIREMENT OF A VRINCIPAL DOORKEEPER.
The Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod informed the Committee that Mr. A. A. Edney, Principal Doorkeeper, will retire on the 27th of January, 1923, and will then have been in the service of the House for a period of forty years.
The Committee sanctioned the grant to Mr. Edney on his retirement of a pension of £133 6s. 8d. This sum is calculated on his present salary of £200 per annum, and, owing to the special circumstances of Mr. Edney's case, is not based on the three years' average. In addition to this pension, Mr. Edney will also receive a supplement under the new Treasury agreement amounting at the present time to £80 3s., but this supplement is subject to quarterly revision.

SECOND REPORT.
CORRECTION OF AMOUNT OF SIR ALBERT GRAY' S PENSION.
The Clerk of the Parliaments informed the Committee that a mistake had been made in calculating Sir Albert Gray's pension under the Superannuation Acts.
Sir Albert Gray is entitled under those Acts to 10 added years for professional qualifications, and those added years Lave not been taken into account.
Instead of the figures given in the First Report of the Committee, the proper amount of the pension is £1,080. There will also be a supplement under the new Treasury agreement, amounting at present to£120, but this supplement is subject to quarterly revision.
The Committee authorised this correction to be made in the amount of the pension.
THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (THE EARL OF DONOUGRMORE): My Lords, I beg to move that the First and Second Reports of the Select Committee be considered and adopted. The First Report has been circulated, and I need not refer to it. The Second Report, which arises out of a meeting that took place yesterday, has just been put on the Table of your Lordships' House, and I am sorry your Lordships have had such a short time in which to consider it, but the only effect of that Report upon the First is to correct some figures that appeared in the First Report. Those were fully explained to the Committee, and I can guarantee to your Lordships that the figures are now correct. In view of that, perhaps your Lordships would not desire that I should address you on the subject at length, but I shall be pleased to answer any questions that may be asked. I beg to move.
Moved, That the First and Second Reports from the Select Committee on House of Lords Offices be now considered and adopted.—(The Earl of Donanyhmore.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.

POSTAL CHARGES.
LORD SOUTHWARK LORD SOUTHWARK had given Notice to ask His Majesty's Government—
(1) Whether they will grant a Return stating what the revenue was from the sale of penny stamps between June 1 and December 31, 1913; twopenny stamps between June 1 and December 31, 1921; penny-halfpenny stamps between June 1 and December 31, 1922; and
(2) Whether, as the Postmaster-General is not a member of the Cabinet, they will, during the recess, ascertain from him whether there are any departmental reasons beyond revenue why, in in the interest of trade and commerce, the penny postage should not be immediately restored without waiting until the end of the financial year.
The noble Lord said: My Lords, my Questions both relate to postal matters, and in putting them to His Majesty's Government I should like to say that I am in no way attacking the Postmaster-General. On the contrary, I desire to assist him in his recently-expressed earnest desire to restore penny postage and reduce postal rates, but I wish to impress upon
468
His Majesty's Government, and especially upon the noble Marquess who is leading the House, if he will honour me by replying, that a reduction of postal charges is not a departmental question only, but is a great national question. It is a question for both the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the President of the Board of Trade, and, if I may say so, for the Government as a whole.
The President of the Board of Trade rendered very considerable service in his Office as Minister in the Overseas Trade Department, and only yesterday he gave expression to a view which I was glad to read this morning. He said what a great many other people have said—namely, that the only way to get rid of unemployment was to revive trade, and he went on to say that the extent and the rapidity of that revival must depend in large measure upon skill, enterprise and initiative. Those are qualities that I wish his Majesty's Government to exhibit. I would impress upon them that the present postal charges are greatly retarding trade revival. They are a drag on the wheels of industry, and I am sure the business world will say that there ought to be modifications at once.
THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: My Lords, with reference to the request for a Return, my only hesitation is that I have not yet received information as to whether there would be any difficulty in granting it. I apprehend not, and in that case it shall be granted. I must put in that saving clause, however, in case there is any difficulty.
With regard to the second Question, everyone must agree with the noble Lord that cheap postage is much in the interests of trade. No one doubts it, and I will take care that his message is conveyed to the Postmaster-General so that he may consider this matter during the recess. He has but recently accepted the office which he now holds and it is perhaps rather unfair to ask him to reply through me this morning, but the matter shall certainly be inquired into during the recess. The noble Lord will understand that our financial position is such that we do not want to try doubtful experiments. That would be a very dangerous thing to do, but if it should appear that the noble Lord is well advised when he says that it would improve trade without throwing any burden on the Exchequer, I have no doubt that my right hon. friend the Postmaster-General will consider the suggestion favourably.
LORD BUCKMASTER: My Lords, I should like to support what the noble Marquess has just said. I hope that no attempt will be made to subsidise the Post Office out of other Taxes. I should regard it as ft most dangerous experiment, and although all of us would delight to see any effort made to restore trade it is difficult to understand how the real obstacle we are encountering to-day, which consists in our inability to export our goods, is removed by facilities for domestic and internal commerce. The real thing against internal commerce is the fact that people have not the money with which to buy, and if you are going to take more from them by taxation in order to obtain cheap postage they will have still less with which to buy, and you will not make their purchasing easier by flooding them with advertisements of goods they are unable to acquire. I am very glad that the noble Marquess has safeguarded himself in the answer he has given.
LORD SOUTHWARK: My Lords, may I say that I do not desire any other facilities than those spoken of by the noble and learned Lord? All I say is that you will find that a reduction of postage rates means an increase of revenue.

CONSOLIDATED FUND (APPROPRIATION) BILL.
Brought from the Commons and read 1a.
Then (Standing Order No. X XXIX. having been suspended) Bill read 2a: Committee negatived: Bill read 3a, and passed.
House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed.

ROYAL COMMISSION.
The Royal Assent was given to the following Bills—

Consolidated Fund (Appropriation).

Importation of Animals.

Trade Facilities and Loans Guarantee.

Dundee High School Order Confirmation.

Glasgow (Tramways, etc.) Order Confirmation.

470

Scottish Widows' Fund and Life Assurance Society's Provisional Order Confirmation.

Edinburgh Corporation Provisional Order Confirmation.

East Lothian (Western District) Water Order Confirmation.

PROROGATION: HIS MAJESTY'S SPEECH.
His Majesty's most gracious Speech was delivered to both Houses of Parliament by the Lord Chancellor (in pursuance of His Majesty's Command) as followeth—
"My Lords and Members of the House of Commons.
"The discussion of problems affecting the peace of the Near East is proceeding at Lausanne and I earnestly trust that a satisfactory solution will shortly he reached.
"The execution of the Treaty of Peace with Germany has again been the subject of conversations between My Ministers and the Ministers of the Allied Powers. These conversations will be resumed in Paris at an early day.
"The task of restoring conditions favourable to economic stability in Europe continues to give Me deep concern. Tile difficulties are great and complex, and can only be overcome by patient and sincere co-operation between the nations primarily effected.
"Members of the House of Commons.
"I thank you for the provision you have made for the public service.
"My Lords and Members of the House of Commons.
"I have given My assent to measures for the final enactment of the Constitution of the Irish Free State, and for the consequent necessary provisions. It is My earnest prayer that the passing of these measures may mark the inauguration of a period of prosperity and concord both for Ireland and for Great Britain.
"An Act has been passed to continue and extend the measures already taken for improving trade, and My Ministers will continue to examine with great care all possible measures for dealing with Unemployment.
"The condition of the agricultural industry, which is unfortunately passing through a period of serious depression, is receiving the careful consideration of My Ministers m the hope that means may be found to alleviate some of the difficulties confronting both farmers and labourers.
"I have assented to a Bill to give effect to the agreement entered into by My late Government with the representatives of the Government of My Dominion of Canada, for the amendment of the law with respect to the landing of imported animals in Great Britain.
"It is My earnest prayer that the blessing of the Almighty may rest upon all your labours."
Then a Commission for proroguing the Parliament was read.
After which the LORD CHANCELLOR said:
MY LORDS, AND MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE of COMMONS,—By virtue of His Majesty's Commission, under the Great Seal, to us and other Lords Directed, and now read, we do, in His Majesty's name and in obedience to His Commands, prorogue this Parliament to Tuesday, the thirteenth day of February, One thousand nine hundred and twenty-three, to be then here holden; and this Parliament is accordingly prorogued to Tuesday, the thirteenth clay of February, One thousand nine hundred and twenty-three.
End of the First Session of the Thirty-Second Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, in the thirteenth year of the Reign of His Majesty King George V.