Sitting of 1 February 1918

Preamble
The House met at Twelve of the clock, Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair.
WEST HIGHLAND RAILWAY (EXTENSION FROM BANAVIE TO MALLAIG).
Copy presented of Sixteenth Annual Report by the Board of Trade as to the condition and working of the Banavie and Mallaig Railway, the Rates and Charges for Traffic, and the Receipts and Expenditure of any Company in working the Railway, for the year 1916–17 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS.
  WAR.
    FOOD SUPPLIES.

      PROTECTION OF SHIPS (IRISH SEA).
      Mr. FIELDasked the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he has read a report of a meeting held in the Mansion House, Dublin, respecting food supplies in Ireland and the necessity of providing protection for the seamen and ships engaged in cross - Channel transit; and what arrangements are being made to ensure greater safety?
      The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the ADMIRALTY (Dr. Macnamara): I received from my hon. Friend a copy of a resolution passed at a meeting in the Mansion House, Dublin. As regards the second part of the question, it is manifestly impossible to state what are the measures taken for the safety of this traffic; but the most careful attention Is devoted to this question, and all available forces are used to safeguard the traffic in the Irish Sea.
      Mr. FIELD: Am I to understand that the arrangements made will include protection for the mail steamers and the people travelling on them?
      Dr. MACNAMARA: I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman desires me to say that we can undertake to give absolute immunity. All we can do is to give every possible protection with the means at our disposal. I shall be dealing with this subject at a meeting on Monday, when I propose to enter more fully into the facts and explain more than is possible now what the means of protection are.

      FOOD CONTROL PROSECUTION, GLASGOW.
      Mr. WATTasked the Secretary for Scotland whether his attention has been called to a recent case in Glasgow, at the instance of the Food Controller, for a breach of Food Control Regulations, where the man charged was defended without success by a sheriff-principal; is he aware that it is one of the duties of a sheriff to adjudicate upon breaches of the Food Control Regulations; and that defence of such breaches is inconsistent with his duties; and will he introduce legislation to put sheriff-principals on the same footing as sheriff-substitutes in that respect?
      The SECRETARY for SCOTLAND (Mr. Munro): I am aware of the case referred to. A sheriff-principal is not prohibited from private practice. He does not, however, appear in cases within his own sheriffdom, on which it might fall to him to adjudicate, whether food cases or others. The answer to the two last parts of the question is in the negative.

      FISH.
      Mr. WATTasked the Secretary for Scotland what action he has taken or proposes to take to cause the Fishery Board to intervene in the Glasgow fish market to prevent over-iced boxes of fish being sold, whereby buyers instead of buying fish buy ice; is he aware that this system tells against the small buyer, who is unable to get the same consideration on making a claim; that such claims are sometimes as much as 30 1bs. on 180 1bs.; and will his Department make an Order for labelling each box with the correct weight of fish and for imposing a penalty for breach?
      Mr. MUNRO: I would refer my hon. and learned Friend to my reply to his question on the 6th December. If the persons aggrieved will send particulars of their complaints to the Fishery Board

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      they will be investigated, and the application of any remedies which are found to be required and to be within the Board's powers will be considered.
      Mr. WATT: Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that this is a very invidious thing, arid that if an opportunity offers retaliation is sure to follow?
      Mr. MUNRO: It may appear invidious, but it is impossible from the point of view of the Board to take action unless some particulars are furnished.

      PORK AND BACON.
      Mr. WATTasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether the retail price of pork-bacon before the intervention of his Department was 2s. to 2s. 2d. per 1b., the bacon-curer then paying the rearer 25s. to 30s. per stone of 20 1bs. weight; whether he then fixed the price for the rearer at 18s. per stone of 20 lbs. weight or 100. per 1b., and thereafter the retailer charged, and still charges, 2s. 4d. to 2s. 6d. per 1b.; whether the intervention of his Department has achieved what it desired; and, if not, whether he will alter this fixed price, so as to prevent pig-rearing disappearing altogether from the country?
      The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the MINISTRY of FOOD (Mr. Clynes): The maximum price for pigs of 18s. per score of the live-weight came into operation on 8th November last. At that time the general retail price of the best cuts of bacon was from 2s. 7d. to 2s. 9d. per 1b., and in some cases even higher. Under the new Order, retailers are now charging 2s. 4d. to 2s. 6d. per lb. for selected cuts. It is thought, therefore, that the object of intervention has been achieved, inasmuch as live pigs are available at rates which enable bacon and pork to be sold at reasonable prices to the consumer.
      Mr. LOUGH: May I ask my hon. Friend whether he does not think there is too wide a gap between the retail price of 2s. 4d. and 2s. 6d. a pound and the low price of 133s. a cwt., which is about 1s. 1d per 1b. to the producer, and whether the effect is not to greatly discourage production and helping to create famine in this country?
      Mr. CLYNES: That gap is dependent upon the amount of profit which the retailer is permitted to make, and which must not exceed 3d. per 1b.
      Mr. LOUGH: With a gap of as much as 1s. per 1b., must there not be middlemen of all sorts, and in various groups, getting huge profits, while the producer is getting an unremunerative price?
      Mr. CLYNES: At present, so far as possible, we arc endeavouring to eliminate the middlemen as between the producer and the wholesaler, and the wholesaler and the retailer.
      Mr. T. WILSON: Does the hon. Gentleman think that 2s. 4d. and 2s. 6d. a lb for bacon is a reasonable price?
      Mr. CLYNES: Certainly not, but, under the circumstances, if the price were put still lower, it would considerably diminish the quantity of the article available.
      Mr. PETO: Can the hon. Gentleman say why there is this difference of 9d. and 10d per lb. between what the consumer gets and the producer has to have?
      Mr. CLYNES: It this were a Debate I could deal with the question in a way that cannot be entered up under the limitations imposed at Question Time.
      Mr. WATT: Do. the reports not bear out the fact that pig-breeding is going out of fashion?
      Mr. CLYNES: It may well be that the number of pigs is fewer than it was some months ago, but it has been explained to the House that the dealing with this question is in terms of food, in the sense that the feeding of pigs takes articles fit for human consumption, and the food value of pigs is far less than is paid for it by the food value of the articles which, otherwise, would be available for human consumption.
      Colonel LORD HENRY CAVENDISHBENTINCK: Is it the object of the Government to reduce the number of pigs in. the country?
      Mr. CLYNES: That may be the incidental effect of the policy we are bound to follow.
      Mr. PETO: Does the hon. Member disagree with Lord Rhondda that the pigs are 500,000 more than they were a few months ago?
      Mr. CLYNES: I have not seen that statement.
      Mr. PETO: It is in all the papers.

      SUGAR.
      Sir J. D. REESasked whether last sear many tons of manufactured sweets and chocolates were imported from Switzerland and America; and, if so, whether, instead thereof, sugar can in future be imported in such space as may be available in order that the threatened British trade in sweets and confectionery may be saved from extinction?
      Mr. CLYNES: The quantity of manufactured sweets and chocolates imported from Switzerland and America last year was inconsiderable. In so far as American exports are concerned it is certainly worth considering whether sugar can be brought over in place of manufactured sweets.

      LAND CULTIVATION (IRELAND).
      Mr. CLANCYasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether, in view of the necessity of securing more land for the production of food in rural districts in that country, of the impossibility of procuring land in sufficient quantity for that purpose, and of the number of persons, agricultural labourers and others, especially in the county of Dublin, who have no land, or, altogether, too little laud, he will now, without further delay, apply Regulation 21, which has already been applied for the benefit of urban districts, to rural districts in Ireland?
      The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Mr. Duke): I am making inquiries -on this subject.
      Mr. CLANCYasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether his attention has been called to the fact that some estates for sale in the Land Judge's Court, consisting in part of considerable areas of land now untenanted and in grass, run the risk of being sold to private individuals unless the Estates Commission, which has power to make an offer of purchase but power only to pay in stock, is furnished with cash for the purpose of such purchase, he will consider the advisability of providing it with cash before the time has lapsed for doing so with any advantage, and so providing land for the production of food by persons who are themselves unable to advance the purchase money?
      Mr. DUKE: No such funds are at the disposal of the Irish Office, and I see no present prospect of additional funds being provided.

    MILITARY SERVICE.

      TRIBUNALS (LAW AGENTS.)
      Mr. WATTasked the Secretary for Scotland whether his attention has been drawn by the Law Society of Glasgow to the undesirability of law agents appearing before military tribunals on which the partners of these agents are sitting; and, if so, what steps, if any, he has taken to stop this practice?
      Mr. MUNRO: The reply to the first part of my hon. and learned Friend's question is in the affirmative. I concur in the view that it is not desirable, though it may not be technically incompetent, that law agents should sit on tribunals before which their partners are appearing as agents. If any such practice has obtained, I do not doubt that the persons concerned will realise the propriety of discontinuing it in view of this expression of opinion.

      LIQUOR TRAFFIC RESTRICTIONS.
      Mr. WATTasked the Secretary for Scotland whether his attention has been called to a case in the Edinburgh Sheriff Court on 10th August last, where it was admitted by the representatives of the police authorities that money was given to police officers from police funds to spend in public-houses on drink in the form of treating, with the object of detecting members of the public engaged in treating; whether this method has had the sanction of his Department; and, if not, whether lie will take steps to put an end to it?
      Mr. MUNRO: I have no knowledge of any such case, but I am ready to consider any allegations which my hon. and learned Friend may desire to lay before me.

      NATIONAL SERVICE (AGRICULTURAL WORKERS).
      Sir J. D. REESasked the Minister of National Service whether his attention has been called to the waste of labour entailed by breaking up Highland crofts for the cultivation of corn for which the land is unfit, and of the loss to the Army resulting from the grant of exemptions from military service to able-bodied young men on the ground that they are required for agriculture in the innumerable cases in which older men can equally well perform

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      all the functions required; whether he is aware of cases in which farmers have dismissed their hands above military age and obtained exemption for their sons as indispensable to take their places, and whether, if young men must be retained for agriculture, they will be sent to work where they can work with the best results?
      The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the MINISTRY of NATIONAL SERVICE (Mr. Beck): The question of the fitness of land for corn production is one for the Board of Agriculture. There are two quite distinct ways in which men of military age employed in agriculture are retained in civil life. A large number have been granted exemption by the tribunals. Others hold vouchers of protection issued by the agricultural executive committees in England and Wales and by the Board of Agriculture in Scotland, under an arrangement made last July, on the direction of the Cabinet, after consideration of the whole question of the man-power employed in Great Britain, whether of military age or not. Such vouchers are issued only to men certified to be whole-time employed on farms on farm work and to be engaged on work of national importance, and to have been engaged on such work on the 1st June, 1917. The instruction issued to carry this arrangement into operation embodied a provision to the effect that if an agricultural executive committee considered that a man was employed on a farm on which there was an excess of labour, they should specify another farm where labour was required, to which the man should move within three weeks, and that, if he did not do so, he was not to be entitled to a voucher. This provision was intended to meet the last point raised in the question. I am not aware that there have been dismissals of the kind indicated by my hon. Friend, and the increased demand for agricultural labour consequent upon the increased area brought under cultivation is likely to prevent such cases occurring.
      Sir J. D. REES: My question is based on cases which have come under my personal notice, and is it not time that the illusion that you have only to scratch a croft or a deer forest to turn it into corn was dispelled, and is not that fiction at the root of a great many of the errors made by the Government in dealing with this particular question?
      Mr. BECK: I think my hon. Friend appreciates that that part of the question is referred to the Board of Agriculture, and has nothing whatever to do with the Department of National Service.
      Mr. OUTHWAITE: Is it not the fact that the Army and Navy have taken nearly the whole of the Highlands, and that has, led to these clearances?
      Mr. BECK: I do not think so.

      EMPLOYMENT EXCHANGES (WAR VOLUNTEERS).
      Mr ANDERSONasked the Minister of Labour whether he will make investigation into the case of J. Bushby, 3, Rhodes Street, Roman Road, Barnsbury, N., who offered himself at the Labour Exchange as. a War Volunteer and was sent for on 25th January and received a warrant to leave for Middlesbrough, together with a written letter stating that he would be met at Middlesbrough Station by a Labour Exchange officer; whether he is aware that this man waited in the station for three hours without being met; that he then went to the Labour Exchange and was sent from there to Thornaby; that, after searching for lodgings and food, he was advised by the police to return home, and was without food for some thirty-four hours; and what steps it is proposed to take to secure better organisation as to the arrangements for the workmen sent from one part of the country to another?
      The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the MINISTRY of LABOUR (Mr. Bridgeman): Inquiry is being made, and my right hon. Friend will inform the hon. Member of the result.

      INSURANCE AGENTS (REMUNERATION).
      Mr. ANDERSONasked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that, in view of the forthcoming inquiry into a war bonus for insurance agents, the Prudential Assurance Company have called a meeting of superintendents in London with a view to the discussion and possible settlement of the question of a war bonus for their employés; whether by this means they will be able to get clear of the inquiry and the production of books; and whether any settlement

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      reached with other companies as to the payment of arrears will also hold good in respect of the Prudential Assurance Company?
      Mr. BRIDGEMAN: In answer to the first part of the question, I am informed that the annual meeting of the superintendents of this company will be held on the first Thursday in March, in accordance with the practice existing over many years. I understand that this meeting is not called to discuss the question of a war bonus, and it is not contemplated that any particular reference will be made to the matter at the meeting. The other parts of the question do not arise.

      IRISH REBELLION (COMPENSATION CLAIM).
      Mr. WATTasked whether any compensation has yet been paid to the widow and family of the Glasgow man, named R. A. M'Kenzie, who was shot on Easter Monday in his shop at 3, Cavendish Row, Dublin; if not, why such delay has taken place in this case; and when it is expected that the money will be paid?
      Mr. DUKE: An award of £300 was approved for payment, of which £120 was paid to the widow in May last, and the balance, £180, lodged in the Recorder's Court for the benefit of the two minor children in October last. I would refer the hon. Member further to the answer I gave to a question by the hon. Member for the Westhoughton Division on the 19th June last as to this case.

      CHELSEA BARRACKS (SOLDIER'S DEATH).
      Mr. ANDERSONasked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he has now obtained the report as to the circumstances in which Private Charles Francis Davey, Reserve Battalion Grenadier Guards, was found with his throat cut at Chelsea Barracks on 28th December; whether he is aware that this soldier, on complaining to the medical officer of illness, was charged with malingering, given two days' C.B., including, in breach of the King's Regulations, two hours at a stretch punishment drill; whether he is aware that Dr. Spilsbury certified at the inquest that this soldier suffered from disease of the heart muscle, fatty de-
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      generation, and atrophy; whether he can state why, in view of this verdict, the man was punished for pleading illness; and what action it is intended to take in respect of the medical officer in charge of Chelsea Barracks who signed the order for the man's punishment?
      The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE For WAR (Mr. Macpherson): Davie complained to the medical officer of "a touch of diarrhœa." Examination negatived this, and this opinion was confirmed at the post-mortem. Davie was reported for reporting sick without sufficient cause, and was given two days' "C.B." He did no punishment drill, and there was no breach of the King's Regulations. I am informed that when defaulters paraded Davie fell in with those who were going a route march. This was done in barracks in two spells of fifty minutes, with ten minutes' rest between. All marched at ease, and Davie carried no pack. This was the only work done by Davie that day. Davie complained of diarrhœa, and the medical authorities do not consider it probable that the medical officer could have diagnosed the condition of his heart, even if his attention had been called to it by a complaint from the soldier, and in their opinion no blame attaches to the medical officer. I understand from his commanding officer that Davie was treated by him with considerable leniency and consideration and received every attention from the medical officer throughout the time of his serving in the battalion.

      VENEREAL DISEASE.
      Mr. PETOasked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been called to the War Office letter to General Officers Commanding, dated 18th March, 1916, which states that the Army Council cannot accept suggestions, made with regard to prevention, which would imply the adoption of any system of prophylaxis which might be said to afford opportunities for unrestrained vice; whether this deters Army medical officers from taking steps to prevent the spread of venereal disease in the Army; and whether the Army Council will now withdraw any restriction which prevents effective measures being taken to avoid the waste of man-power in the Army from this cause?
      Mr. MACPHERSON:I regret that I can add nothing at present to the answers which I gave my hon. Friend on the 22nd January last.
      Mr. PETO: May I ask is the Army Council letter correctly stated in the question, and does it not tend, at any rate, to prevent medical officers taking the necessary steps to stop this scourge in the Army?
      Mr. MACPHERSON: I think I communicated by letter yesterday with my hon. Friend, enclosing a copy of the letter to which he refers, and which he will probably get to-day.
      Mr. PETO: Can the hon. Gentleman give any idea, if not accurate figures, of the number of men who pass through hospital suffering from venereal diseases in a single year and who are at any one time incapacitated from that cause?
      Mr. MACPHERSON: I am afraid I cannot give those figures definitely.
      Mr. OUTHWAITE: Are we to infer that medical officers are prevented from taking every possible step to cure this hideous disease?
      Mr. MACPHERSON: My hon. Friend cannot infer that from the reply given today or from the reply given previously.
      Sir J. D. REES: is not that the result?
      Mr. MACPHERSON: No; I do not think so.

      SOLDIER'S HOME, AYR (EVICTION).
      Mr. WATTasked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether the attention of his Department has been called to the eviction in November last from the soldier's home in Ayr of the three sisters of three soldiers named Milliken, who are serving on the various fronts; is he aware that this eviction was at the instance of an honorary sheriff-substitute of Ayrshire, who is the honorary secretary to the soldiers' association, and was carried out in a snowstorm in the absence of the soldiers on active service; will he say whether his Department intervenes in such cases to prevent injustice to officers and men in their absence; and will he do so in this instance?
      Mr. MACPHERSON: I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer given on the 7th November to my hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn.
      Mr. WATT: Does the hon. Gentleman's Department deprecate this action, and, if so, what have they done to indicate that view?
      Mr. MACPHERSON: The whole question is a question for the War Cabinet. I can assure my hon. Friend my Department does deprecate it.

      ARMY EXAMINING DEPOT, DUBLIN.
      Mr. FIELDasked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether he can state what progress has been made in fitting up the Westland Row premises as an examining and receiving depot; whether he is aware that the adjoining houses can be obtained for extensions and connection be constructed to the Dublin and South-Eastern Railway, which will enable communications by rail to all parts of Ireland and to Dublin port; and whether operations of examining and receiving will soon be commenced?
      The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the WAR OFFICE (Mr. Forster): The matter is being pursued, but I am afraid I can make no material addition to my answer of the 22nd January.
      Mr. FIELD: I will put down another question in a week or so.
      Mr. FORSTER: I am afraid I cannot give details from day to day as to the steps that are being taken. I can assure my hon. Friend that there is no unnecessary delay.

      INDUSTRIAL RECONSTRUCTION.
      Mr. PETOasked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that, at the national conference of representatives of over thirty associations of employers, held at Westminster on the 10th December last, to consider a united policy on the part of employers with respect to the proposals of the Government in relation to industrial reconstruction and the prevention and settlement of industrial disputes, resolutions were adopted to the effect that in the interests of personal freedom and public order and industrial peace an inquiry into the working and effect of the Trades Disputes Act, 1906, should be set up to report specially as to the effect of picketing by unlimited numbers in unlimited areas, and the necessity for rendering unlawful combinations for disorganising trade and social conditions; whether, in the national

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      interests, all trade unions should be subjected to the ordinary law of the land and made responsible, like all other classes, for their actions; and whether it is contemplated to institute an inquiry into this aspect of the industrial question?
      Mr. BRIDGEMAN: My right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour has been asked to answer this question. His attention has been called to the resolutions in question, but he does not consider that an inquiry of the kind suggested is necessary or desirable at the present time.

      EXCESS PROFITS DUTY.
      Sir J. D. REESasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the principle of allowing for amortisation of capital invested in mining companies when calculating liability to Excess Profits Duty will now be applied in regard to Income Tax; and, if not, in what respect the cases differ in principle?
      Mr. BALDWIN (Joint Financial Secretary to the Treasury): With regard to the question of an extension of the Income Tax allowance for depreciation, I would refer my hon. Friend to my reply of the 1st November last to my hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham, of which I am sending him a copy. My hon. Friend will not expect me to deal, by way of question and answer with the principles underlying the Excess Profits Duty, or with the extent to which the considerations affecting the Excess Profits Duty are applicable to the Income Tax.

      ROYAL ARSENAL, WOOLWICH (ACCIDENT COMPENSATION).
      Mr. ANDERSONasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware that a woman worker employed by the inspection Department of the Royal Arsenal, Woolwich, met with an accident on 29th March, 1917, for which she received compensation under the scheme in force for Government workers under the Workmen's Compensation Act; whether the authorities of the Woolwich Arsenal took the necessary steps to obtain the sanction of the Treasury for further payment under the scheme, and requested them to give an early decision, but have not yet received any answer from the Treasury; and whether he will take steps to expedite the decision of the Treasury?
      Mr. BALDWIN: If the hon. Member will give me the name of the woman worker concerned, I will at once cause inquiry to be made. The number of these cases is, unfortunately, very considerable, and the particulars given are not sufficient for identification.

      LIGHTS (IRELAND) ORDER.
      Mr. BYRNEasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland if an Order has been issued by the Admiralty, under the title of the Lights (Ireland) Order of the 17th January, 1918, which will seriously interfere with the business of the city of Dublin; if the restrictive terms of that Order are necessarily applicable to the city of Dublin; and, if not, whether he will take steps to have the city of Dublin relieved as far as possible from the restrictions embodied in the Order?
      Mr. DUKE: An Order has been issued in similar terms to like Orders which have long been in force in Great Britain. Such Orders have not been found in practice to cause any serious interference with industrial and commercial business. Dublin is necessarily brought within the scope of the Order. If any case exists or should arise in which exceptional treatment appears to be required, representations on the subject will be considered.

ORDERS OF THE DAY.
  BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE (GOVERNMENT BUSINESS).
  Ordered, "That the Proceedings on Government Business be not interrupted this day at Five or Half-past Five of the clock, and may be entered upon at any hour although opposed."—[Mr. Boner Law.]

  REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE BILL.
  Lords Amendments further considered.
  CLAUSE 38.—(Application to Scotland.)
  This Act shall apply to Scotland, subject to the following modifications:
  (1) Unless the context otherwise requires—

  (a) The word "borough" except as used in the expression "Parliamentary borough" means "burgh";

  (c) The expression "the Local Government Board" means the Secretary for Scotland;

  (d) The expression "Valuation Acts" means the Lands Valuation (Scotland) Act, 1854, and any Acts amending the same;

  (3) The Section of this Act relating to local government franchise (men) shall not apply, and in lieu thereof—

  (a) a man who is of full age and not subject to any legal incapacity shall be entitled to be registered as a local government elector for a local government electoral area if he is on the last day of the qualifying period and has been during the whole of that period—

  (ii) the occupier as tenant of lands and heritages (other than a dwelling house) within the area of the yearly value of not less than ten pounds: Where such lands and heritages are in the joint occupation as tenants of two or more persons, and the aggregate yearly value of the lands and heritages is not less than the amount produced by multiplying ten pounds by the number of joint occupiers, each of the joint occu-
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  piers shall be treated as occupying lands and heritages of the yearly value of not less than ten pounds;

  (b)(i) the ownership or occupation in immediate succession of different lands and heritages, dwelling-houses, or lodgings, as the case may be, in the same Parliamentary county or in the same Parliamentary borough shall have the like effect in qualifying a man to be registered as a local government elector for a local government electoral area therein, respectively, as the continued ownership or occupation of the same lands and heritages, dwelling-houses, or lodgings within that area; and

  (ii) the occupation of a dwelling-house shall not be deemed to be interrupted by reason only of permission being given by letting or otherwise for the occupation thereof as a furnished house by some other person for a part of the qualifying period not exceeding four months in the whole;

  (c) In this Section "owner" has the same meaning as "proprietor" in the Valuation Acts, "lands and heritages" has the same meaning as in those Acts and "dwelling-house" means any house or part of a house occupied as a separate dwelling;

  (4) Sub-section one of this Act relating to franchises (women) shall not apply,. and in lieu thereof—

  (a) a woman who is not subject to any legal incapacity shall be entitled to he registered as a Parliamentary elector for a constituency (other than a university constituency) if she has attained the age of thirty years, and if either she or her husband is on the last day of the qualifying period occupying jointly or severally as owner or tenant any land or premises in the constituency (hereinafter in this Sub-section called "the qualifying premises"), and has during the whole of the qualifying period so occupied' any land or premises in the county or county of a city in which the qualifying premises are situated:

  Provided that for the purposes of this Sub-section—

  (i.) the word "tenant" shall include a person who inhabits by virtue of any office, service, or employment any dwelling-house which

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  is not inhabited by any person under whom he serves in such office, service, or employment;

  (ii.) the word "tenant" shall not include a person who occupies a room or rooms as a lodger except where such room or rooms are let to him or her in an unfurnished state:

  (iii.) a woman, though she or her husband may have been occupying land or premises in the constituency on the last day of the qualifying period, shall not be entitled to be so registered, if she or her husband, as the case may be, commenced to occupy the land or premises within thirty days before the end of the qualifying period and ceased to occupy them within thirty days after the commencement of such occupation;

  (iv.) the occupation of a house shall not be deemed to be interrupted by reason only of permission being given by letting or otherwise for the occupation of the house as a furnished house by some other person for a part of the qualifying period not exceeding four months in the whole;

  (v.) not more than two persons shall be deemed to be joint occupiers of the same land or premises unless they are bonâ fide engaged as partners carrying on their profession, trade, or business in the premises; and

  (vi.) the word "county" means a county inclusive of all burghs therein except a county of a city, and the word "dwelling-house" means any house or part of a house occupied as a separate dwelling.

  (b) A woman registered by virtue of this Section shall be deemed to be registered by virtue of her own or her husband's local government qualification;

  (5) The Section of this Act relating to registration officers and areas shall not apply, and in lieu thereof—
  Each burgh, the town council whereof was entitled under the law in force at the passing of this Act to appoint an assessor for the purpose of Parliamentary registration, and each county (exclusive of every such burgh), or, where any county is divided for the purpose of Parliamentary elections, each part of
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  the county which lies within a separate Parliamentary division, shall be a registration area: and the assessor of the burgh or county under the Valuation Acts, or where there are two or more such assessors, one of them appointed for the purpose of Parliamentary registration by the town or county council, as the case may be, shall be the registration officer of that area, and all other assessors (if any) in that area shall, for the purpose of Parliamentary registration, he subject to the instructions of the registration officer and shall be bound to act on such instructions.
  (7) In the application of the Section of this Act relating to right to the use of elementary schools the expression "any public elementary school in receipt of an annual Parliamentary grant" means "any school in receipt of a Parliamentary grant."
  (9) The Sections of this Act relating to returning officers and to the discharge of returning officers' duties by an acting returning officer shall not apply, and in lieu thereof—
  The returning officer at Parliamentary elections (other than a university election, shall as heretofore be the sheriff of the sheriffdom within which the constituency is wholly situated or, where the constituency is situated in more than one sheriffdom, the sheriff specified in the Sixth Schedule to this Act, and the power of appointing deputies conferred by Section 8 of the Ballot Act, 1872, on certain sheriffs shall be exercisable by any sheriff who is returning officer for more than one constituency, or who, by reason of sickness or unavoidable absence, is incapacitated from performing any of the duties devolving upon him as returning officer, and in the event of no such appointment being made by a sheriff so incapacitated or in the event of any vacancy in the office of sheriff at the time when any of such duties require to be performed, the sheriff substitute at the place at which the writ for the election is appointed to be received, shall act as returning officer, and shall perform all the duties and have all the powers (including the power of appointing deputies) of such returning officer.
  (10) In the case of Parliamentary elections the place of election shall be a

  1949
  convenient room situated in such place as the Secretary for Scotland may by order from time to time determine.
  (11) For the purposes of the Section of this Act relating to alteration of polling districts where necessary, the sheriff shall within his sheriffdom be deemed to be the local authority.
  Lords Amendments:
  In paragraph (1), leave out the words "(a) The word 'borough,' except as used in the expression 'Parliamentary borough,' means 'burgh'," and insert instead thereof the words
  "(a) The expressions 'borough' and 'municipal borough' mean burgh
  —Disagreed with.
  In paragraph (1, c), after the word "Board" ["Local Government Board"], insert the words "except where otherwise expressly provided."—Agreed to.
  After paragraph (1, d), insert the words,
  "(e) The expression 'governing body' used in relation to a university means the University Court."
  Agreed to—
  In paragraph (3, a, ii.), leave out the words "(other than a dwelling-house)."
  Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
  Sir W. DICKINSON: May I ask what is exactly the meaning of this Amendment?
  The SECRETARY for SCOTLAND (Mr. Munro): The point of this Amendment is this: it has been pointed out to me that, under the provisions of the Bill as they stand governing the local government franchise in Scotland, no right to be registered as an elector is conferred upon joint occupiers as tenants of dwelling-houses, even where the existing law permits of registration of such joint occupiers. This Amendment will bring back the provisions of the Bill more nearly to the existing local government law of Scotland. I undertook, so far as possible, that the local government franchise should be substantially preserved. Inadvertently it has been somewhat restricted in the Bill as it at present stands, and the purpose of this Amendment is to bring the franchise back into strict conformity with the law as it at present stands.
  Sir W. DICKINSON: May I ask whether the omission of the words would not mean that the dwelling-house occupied must be of £10 value?
  Mr. MUNRO: I think there is no difficulty about it.
  Mr. GULLAND: Does not the Secretary for Scotland put this right in one of the later Amendments, which defines lands and heritages as being lands and heritages other than dwelling-houses?
  Mr. WATT: If there is any doubt about this matter, perhaps my right hon. Friend might refuse to accept this Amendment of the other House until he has looked into this question. If this Amendment is accepted, is it beyond the power of the Secretary for Scotland to rectify the matter if my right hon. Friend is right? In the meantime, may I sugest that he should reject this Amendment, so as to leave the door open?
  Mr. MUNRO: I am advised that there is no difficulty about the matter, and that the Amendment exactly gives effect to what my right hon. Friend desires.
  Loris Amendment agreed to.
  Lords Amendments:
  In paragraph (3, b, i.), leave out the words "Parliamentary county or in the same Parliamentary borough," and insert instead thereof the words "county or in the same county of a city."—Disagreed with.
  In paragraph (3, b), leave out the words "and (ii.) the occupation of a dwelling-house shall not be deemed to be interrupted by reason only of permission being given by letting or otherwise for the occupation thereof as a furnished house by some other person for a part of the qualifying period not exceeding four months in the whole."—Agreed to.
  In (c), leave out the words "has the same meaning as 'proprietor ' in the Valuation Acts; 'land and heritages' has the same meaning as in those Acts," and insert instead thereof the words "('shall include heir of entail in possession, life-renter, and beneficiary entitled under any trust to the rents and profits of lands and heritages and shall not include the fiar of lands and heritages subject to a life-rent, nor tutor, curator, judicial factor, nor commissioner; "county" means a county inclusive of all burghs therein except

  1951
  county of a city'); "lands and heritages" has the same meaning as in the Valuation Acts.'"
  Lords Amendment read a second time.
  Amendment made in Lords Amendment: Leave out the words "'county' means a county inclusive of all burghs therein except a county of a city."
  Lords Amendment, as amended, agreed to.
  Lords Amendment:
  In paragraph (4, a), leave out the words "is on the last day," and insert instead thereof the words "has during the last fourteen days."—Disagreed with.
  Leave out the word "occupying" ["qualifying period occupying"], and insert instead thereof the word "occupied."—Disagreed with.
  After paragraph (4, a, ii.), insert as a new paragraph,
  "(iii) the expression 'land or premises' means any land or premises (other than a dwelling-house) of the yearly value of not less than five pounds or any dwelling-house."—Agreed to.
  In paragraph (4, a), leave out subparagraphs (iii.), (iv.), and (v.).
  Lords Amendment read a second time.
  Amendment made in Lords Amendment: Leave out "(iii.)"—[This retains sub-paragraph (iii.) in the Bill.]
  Lords Amendment, as amended, agreed to.
  Lords Amendments:
  In paragraph (4, a), after the word "dwelling" ["a separate dwelling"], insert as a new paragraph,
  "(iv.) Where land or premises are in the joint occupation of two or more persons, each of the joint occupiers shall be treated as occupying the same, provided that not more than two joint occupiers shall be so treated in respect of the same land or premises, unless they are bonâ fide engaged as partners, carrying on their profession, trade, or business on the land or premises, and provided further that in the case of land or premises (other than a dwelling-house) the aggregate yearly value thereof must be not less than the amount produced by multiplying five pounds by the number of joint occupiers."—Agreed to.
  At end of paragraph (4) insert new paragraph:
  () Sub-section (1) of the Section of this Act relating to supplementary provisions as to residence and occupation shall not apply except in so far as that Sub-section relates to the Parliamentary franchise for men.
  Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
  Mr. WATT: May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to give the House some explanation of the meaning of this particular Section. I have inquired of experts in registration, and they are, they tell me, unable to understand what is meant by this particular Sub--section
  Mr. MUNRO: This Amendment is consequential upon the new Clause 6 (a) which the House has adopted. The local government franchise for men and the Parliamentary franchise for women are regulated by the provisions of the Scottish application clause. It is necessary, therefore, to provide that Sub-section (1), of the new Clause 6 (a) shall apply to Scotland so far as it relates to the Parliamentary franchise for men only.
  Lords Amendment agreed to.
  Lords Amendment: After the Amendment last inserted, add as a new paragraph,
  "() The section of this Act relating to provision as to disqualification shall have effect as if the following provision were enacted therein:
  A person shall not be disqualified front being registered or from voting as a Parliamentary or local government elector by reason that he is the town clerk or depute town clerk of any burgh or the assessor under the Valuation Acts in any burgh or county."
  Motion made, and Question proposed,. "That this House cloth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
  Mr. GULLAND: This is an entirely new proposal, and I should really like to ask the Secretary for Scotland why it has been adopted? I can quite see, and agree with, the legitimate claim that has always been made by the town clerk that by reason of being town clerk he shall not be deprived of a vote at a Parliamentary election. I think that is quite right. But I should' like to hear from the Secretary for Scotland as to whether or not he is in favour of that official having a vote at a

  1953
  municipal election? If the town clerk is wrapped up in the work of the town council, and so intimately associated with the members in carrying out the work that they have to do, I am a little doubtful of the wisdom of allowing him to mix himself up in the hurly-burly of a town council election, and to take sides for or against the men with whom he will have to work in amicable relations. I have quite an open mind on the subject, but I think the matter requires some exposition on the part of the Secretary for Scotland before the House agrees with it.
  Mr. MUNRO: This Amendment was inserted in another place at the instance of Lord Balfour of Burleigh, than whom, as my right hon. Friend knows, no one has a more intimate knowledge of municipal law in Scotland. The purpose was to remove the disqualification from voting which at the present time rests upon town clerks, deputy town clerks, and assessors. My view, if I may put it to my right hon. Friend, is that inasmuch as the policy of the Bill is to remove disqualifications, and inasmuch as the corresponding officials in England to those whom I have enumerated labour under no such disqualification—
  Mr. M. HEALY: Or in Ireland!
  Mr. MUNRO: —or in Ireland—I am obliged to my hon. and learned Friend for pointing that out—it seems anomalous and unnecessary that this special disqualification should still, without any valid reason, remain in Scotland. Under the circumstances, I think my right hon. Friend will agree that the policy followed is reasonable, and justified by the circumstances in the three countries.
  Mr. GULLAND: I do not object. I am very glad for the explanation of my right hon. Friend.
  Lords Amendment agreed to.
  Lords Amendments:
  After the Amendment last inserted, add as a new paragraph,
  "() The Section of this Act relating to qualification for membership of local authority shall not apply."—Agreed to.
  In paragraph (5), after the word "county" ["each part of the county"] insert the words "with the like exclusion."—Agreed to.
  Leave out the words "Parliamentary registration" ["Parliamentary registra-
  1954
  tion be subject to the instructions"], and insert instead thereof the words "the registration of Parliamentary and local government electors."
  Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
  Sir G. YOUNGER: There is no objection whatever to this, but I should like to take the opportunity of saying that I am extremely sorry that the proviso following has not been dealt with and the whole of our valuation at the present time put into the hands of the Treasury.
  Lords Amendment agreed to.
  Lords Amendments:
  In paragraph (7), leave out the words "in receipt of art annual Parliamentary Grant."—Agreed to.
  After paragraph (8), insert as a new paragraph,
  "() In Sub-section (5) of the Section of this Act, relating to expenses of registration, the expression" the council whose clerk the registration officer is," means" the council appointing the registration officer."—Agreed to.
  In paragraph (9), leave out the words "more than one sheriffdom, the sheriff specified in the Sixth Schedule to this Act," and insert instead thereof the words "two or more sheriffdoms, the sheriff of such one of those sheriffdoms as the Secretary for Scotland may appoint."—Disagreed with.
  After paragraph (9), insert as a new paragraph,
  "Notwithstanding the provisions of Sub-section (1) of the Section of this Act relating to polls to be held on one day at a General Election, the poll at any General or By-Election for the constituency of Orkney and Shetland shall remain open for two consecutive days as heretofore."
  Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
  Mr. GULLAND: This does not indicate which of the two days is to be the day for the general day of polling?
  Mr. MUNRO: The Amendment, as my right hon. Friend knows, is to ensure that in the case of a by-election, as well as the General Election, there shall be two days

  1955
  for the poll in the Orkneys and the Shetlands. I think my right hon. Friend is riot right in his suggestion.
  Lords Amendment agreed to.
  Lords Amendments:
  After the Amendment last inserted, insert as a new paragraph,
  "The provisions of the last paragraph of the Section of this Act relating to register for university constituencies shall not apply, and the said Section shall have effect as if Regulation sixteen of Section two of the Universities Elections Amendment (Scotland) Act, 1881, were enacted therein in lieu of the said paragraph."—Agreed to.
  At the beginning of paragraph (10), insert the words "The Section of this Act relating to place of election shall not apply, and in lieu thereof," and after "elections" insert "(other than an election for a university constituency)."—Agreed to.
  Leave out paragraph (11), and insert instead thereof the words,
  "In the application of the Section of this Act relating to division of constituency into polling districts and provision of polling places, and of the Section of this Act relating to alteration of polling places where necessary, the returning officer shall be substituted for the council having a power or duty under those Sections to divide a constituency into polling districts, and the Lord Advocate shall be substituted for the Local Government Board."
  Lords Amendment read a second time.
  Mr. GULLAND: A good deal of work has to be done immediately on this fixing of polling places. What I wish to know is whether the returning officer is a continuing person, or does he merely begin his operations on the declaration of an election? I want to be quite sure that we have somebody taking action all the time.
  Mr. MUNRO: My right hon. Friend knows that the sheriff is the returning officer, and I do not apprehend that. there will be any difficulty at all. We all know who is the returning officer.
  Mr. GULLAND: I agree that we all know that the sheriff is the returning officer, but is he in office now or only when he receives a writ from Mr. Speaker. I want to be sure that he really
  1956
  is the person working on this job the whole time, and when the duty is placed upon him I want him to be there ready to take up this duty.
  Sir GEORGE YOUNGER: I suggest that we should insert the word "sheriff" instead of "returning officer."
  Mr. GULLAND: I should like some further assurance on this point. This is an important matter, and we are entitled to be quite sure that somebody is there to take up this duty. It will not do afterwards to be told that we have neglected this matter. Will the Secretary for Scotland accept the suggestion made by the hon. Baronet?
  Mr. MUNRO: I am willing to meet my right hon. Friend and accept the suggestion which has been made, although I do not really think there is any necessity for it. If, however, my right hon. Friend opposite takes that view, I am quite willing to accept the insertion of the word "sheriff."
  Sir G. YOUNGER: I beg to move, as an Amendment to the Lords Amendment, to leave out the words "returning officer," and to insert instead thereof the word "sheriff."
  Amendment to the Lords Amendment agreed to.
  Lords Amendment, as amended, agreed to.
  Lords Amendment:
  After the Amendment last added, insert,
  "() Notwithstanding anything in this Act it shall not in the year nineteen hundred and nineteen and subsequent years be necessary—

  (a) as regards any burgh or any registration unit therein, if the town council of the burgh so resolve, to show or distinguish in any spring register the names of persons entitled to vote as local government electors; or

  (b) as regards any county or any registration unit therein, if the county council of the county so resolve, to show or distinguish in any register other than the autumn register in those years in which county council elections fall to be held the names of persons entitled to vote as local government electors:

  Provided that—

  (i) a resolution under this Section shall not have effect unless it is passed as respects the spring register in any year before the first day of January in that year, and as respects the autumn register in any year before the first day of July in that year;

  (ii) for all the purposes of the registration of local government electors in any burgh or county, or registration unit therein to which any such resolution applies, the last preceding local government register shall remain in force until a new local government register comes into force.

  In this Sub-section 'burgh' has the same meaning as in the Town Councils (Scotland) Act, 1900. and 'county' means a county exclusive of any such burgh."
  Mr. MUNRO: I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
  This Amendment was moved in another place by Lord Balfour of Burleigh. It gives an option to a town council to make up or not to make up the spring register of local government electors, and also confers an option on county councils either to make up or not to make up the spring register and autumn register in the years in which there are no county council elections. I have had a number of representations made to me that there would be a great saving in the case of some boroughs if they are not required to make up the spring register, and it would also be a great saving if the county councils were not required to do the same thing in years when there are no elections. The parish council and school board elections will take place once in three years upon the autumn register. Under these circumstances, it seems to me that the proposal which was made by Lord Balfour of Burleigh is a reasonable one, and I propose to ask the House to agree with the Lords Amendment.
  Mr. GULLAND: This is an Amendment which I am sure will delight the heart of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Cleveland (Mr. Herbert Samuel), because it carries out great economy in printing, and it is quite a proper Amend-
  1958
  ment if it ensures that there will always be a register for a particular election that may come on.
  Mr. MUNRO: That is so.
  Mr. GULLAND: Is the right, hon. Gentleman quite sure that if the Education Bills fail to pass that there will he a register for the school board elections in a. parish or a county? I am not quite sure in what year the general elections take place, because they have been changed so much that I am not quite sure exactly in what year a school board election would fall. I should like to be assured that if the school board election does come on it will not be held upon a register that may be two or three years old. There is one other point which I should like to be assured upon by the right hon. Gentleman, and it is that this arrangement would ensure a fresh register for the years in which a poll under the Scottish Temperance Act might take place. My recollection is that that. is the year in which the county council election falls, but I should like to be assured that in subsequent years on which a poll may be demanded under the Scottish Temperance Act there will be a fresh register.
  Mr. M. HEALY:I hope the right hon. Gentleman in this matter will take his pattern from Scotland and adopt the proposal of Lord Balfour of Burleigh and apply it to Ireland. It may be necessary in the boroughs, but in our rural districts where county and district council elections cannot take place except every third year, it is a shocking waste of money that a local government register should be prepared every year. I do hope if anything is done in the improvement of local government that the right hon. Gentleman will take his pattern from what Lord Balfour of Burleigh has done.
  The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Mr. Duke): My hon. Friend is mistaken if he thinks that the Noble Lord has followed the example of the Irish Office by omitting to a limited extent that which was done on the suggestion, I think, of the hon. Gentleman himself. The preparation of a spring register is thought to be unnecessary.
  Mr. MORRELL: Is this in order on these Amendments?
  Mr. SPEAKER: We are only discussing Scotland at this moment.
  Mr. HEALY: In discussing Scotland, are we not entitled to say how good it is to follow the Scottish example in this matter?
  Mr. SPEAKER: It would appear that Scotland has followed the Irish example in this case.
  Mr. HEALY: I do not think the Chief Secretary appreciates the Amendment. It is quite true that in Ireland we have proposed that there should be no spring register, but if I understand the Scottish proposal it only makes necessary the preparation of a local government register when there is going to be a local government election. That is an additional improvement which I would gladly see applied to Ireland.
  Mr. MUNRO: I desire to give my right hon. Friend (Mr. Gulland) complete assurance with regard to both the points that he has raised. With regard to the question of the school board register, if he will look at the second paragraph of the proviso on the Amendment Paper he will see
  "for all the purposes of the registration of local government electors in any burgh or county, or registration unit therein to which any such resolution applies, the last preceding local government register shall remain in force until a new local government register comes into force."
  1.0 P.M.
  I am advised that there cannot be any lacuna between the appearance of the new register and the disappearance of the old one. This is largely a question of law, and I am advised that my right hon. Friend's fears are quite unfounded on that score. The point regarding the Scottish Temperance Act was brought under my notice some few weeks ago by a letter from Glasgow, and it was very carefully examined. A reply was sent., a copy of which I shall be pleased to supply to my right hon. Friend, in which reasons were fully stated why apprehensions on the score of interference with the Temperance Act by reason of this provision were shown to be entirely unfounded. My right hon. Friend may accept the most ample assurance on that subject.
  Lords Amendment agreed to.

  REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE BILL.

    CLAUSE 39. —(Application to Ireland.)
    This Act shall apply to Ireland subject to the following modifications:
    (1) References to the Lord Chancellor shall be construed references to the Lord Chancellor of Ireland.
    The Lord Chancellor of Ireland shall not sit as a member of the Court of Appeal on the hearing of appeals hum the County Court under this Act.
    (3) The Clerk of the Crown and Peace for an administrative county shall be the registration officer for any registration area which is coterminous with, or the whole or greater part of which is contained in, the administrative county, and the council of that county shall be the council by which the registration expenses of that registration officer are to be paid subject in cases where the registration area is not coterminous with or wholly contained in the administrative county to such contribution by the council of any other administrative county as the Local Government Board for Ireland may direct: Provided that the registration expenses to be paid by a council shall not include any charges for trouble, care, and attention, in the performance of duties which arc performed by the registration officer in person.
    The registration expenses shall be paid in the case of the council of a county borough out of the rate or fund out of which the general expenses of the council are paid, or out of any other rate or fund which the Local Government Board may on the application of the council approve, and in the case of a council of any other administrative county out of the poor rate as a county at. large charge, except in cases to which Section twelve of the Parliamentary Registration (Ireland) Act, 1885, applies:
    (5) For the purposes of appeals from the registration officer, and also for the purpose of the revision of jurors' lists, the powers and jurisdiction of the County Court shall, unless and until the Lord Lieutenant otherwise direct, be exercised, as respects the Parliamentary borough of Dublin, by the persons who are at the time of the passing of this Act Dublin revising barristers, and as respects the Parliamentary county of Dublin by the person who is at the time of the passing of this Act revising barrister for that county; but while those powers are so exercised the provisions of this Act as to County Courts shall apply to them as they apply to County Courts.
    (7) The expression "administrative county" includes a county borough, and the expression "overseer" means a town clerk, secretary of a county council, clerk of an urban district council, an existing clerk of the union, within the meaning of the Local Government (Ireland) Act, 1898, and a collector of poor rate.
    (8) Notwithstanding the limit imposed in Sub-section (2) of Section twenty-seven of the County Officers and Courts (Ireland) Act, 1877, the salaries of Clerks of the Crown and Peace may be increased by orders made under that Subsection to such extent as appears to the Lord Lieutenant and Council, with the concurrence of the Treasury, to be proper, having regard to the additional duties imposed on those officers by this Act.
    (9) The reference to the local authority having power to divide any Parliamentary county or Parliamentary borough into polling districts shall be construed in the case of a Parliamentary borough as a reference to the council of the municipal borough, and in the case of a Parliamentary county as a reference to the council of the administrative county which is coterminous with, or includes the whole or greater part of the Parliamentary county, and any existing powers in that behalf of a municipal borough council or county council shall be extended accordingly and shall be exercisable as respects the whole of the Parliamentary borough or the Parliamentary county a-s the case may be.
    (10) Part IV. of this Act, and the provisions with respect to an urban district which is coterminous with, or wholly contained in, a registration area, or with respect to the persons who are to be returning officers, or with respect to the discharge of returning officers' duties by an acting returning officer or with respect to the right to the use of elementary schools, shall not apply.
    (11) (a) The qualifying period shall be a period of six months ending on the fifteenth day of July and including that day:
    Provided that one month shall be substituted for six months in the application of this provision to a person who has been serving as a member of the naval or military forces of the Crown at any time during the said six months;
    (b) One register of electors shall only be made in each year, and all provisions applicable to the autumn register shall apply as respects the yearly register (except that the yearly register shall remain in force until the fifteenth day of October in the next following year), and the provisions as to the preparation of two registers in each year and as to the spring register shall not apply.
    (12) The yearly value of premises shall be taken to be the rateable value where these premises are separately valued, and in any other case shall be deemed to be the amount which would, in the opinion of the registration officer, be the rateable value if they were separately valued.
    Lords Amendments:
    In Sub-section (1), leave out the words "of Ireland."—Agreed to.
    In Sub-section (3), after the word "county" ["The Clerk of the Crown and Peace for an administrative county"], insert the words "not being a county borough."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "registration area" ["registration area which is coterminous with"], and insert instead thereof the words "Parliamentary county."—Agreed to.
    After the word "county" ["greater part of which is contained in the administrative county"], insert the words "and for any Parliamentary borough of which the whole or greater part is contained in the administrative county and no part is contained in a county borough, and the Clerk of the Crown and Peace for a county borough shall be the registration officer for any Parliamentary borough which is coterminous with or the whole or any part of which is contained in the county borough."
    Lords Amendment read a second time.
    Mr. BOLAND: I beg to move, as an Amendment to the Lords Amendment, at the end, to add the words,
    "Provided also that the person who, at the passing of this Act, is town clerk for the county borough of Dublin shall, so long as he holds that office, be the registration officer for the Parliamentary borough of Dublin, and that the last preceding proviso shall not apply in his case."
    There are two Amendments upon the Order Paper in the names of my hon. Friend the Member for North Dublin

    1963
    (Mr. Clancy) and myself. I understand that the Government cannot see their way to accept the first, but are willing to accept the second, which I therefore move. We had thought, when this matter had gone through another place, that the objections which had been put forward in this House would have been met. I regret very much that they have not been met, but under the circumstances, and seeing that the Government are willing to accept the second Amendment, I beg to move it, and express the hope that it will be carried.
    Mr. FIELD: I beg to second the Amendment, and I trust that the Chief Secretary will accept it.
    Mr. DUKE: This Amendment arises out of a question which has given rise to a very disproportionate amount of discussion in the House and of controversy outside. If there had been agreement among the representatives in the boroughs, I should have been content to have accepted the result, but there was no such agreement, and it is therefore quite impossible to accept the proposal that in each of the county boroughs the town clerk shall be the registration officer. As I promised, I inquired most carefully into the wishes of the various communities concerned, and I am satisfied now, as I was then, that it would not be proper on my part to assent to that course. So far as the city of Dublin is concerned, all the members for the city support this proposal. I gather that in Dublin there is a very considerable degree of local feeling that it would be in the interests of effective registration there and the cheerful co-operation of the body of officials in the work of registration, which might be hindered by a different course, if I were to assent to the proposal that the present town clerk of Dublin should be the registration officer of Dublin while he holds that office. I may say that I should not have been content to go that length if I had not known, as, indeed, I have said on former occasions, that no man could more efficiently discharge these duties than the town clerk of Dublin. In view of the state of local feeling, and of the desire to promote efficiency by getting the cheerful co-operation of everybody concerned, whereas otherwise it might be a grudging co-operation, I am ready to accept the proposal of my hon. Friend. But this must be clearly understood, that the acceptance of this Amendment throws
    1964
    no sort of reflection on the capacity, or the fitness of the Clerk of the Crown and Peace, who would otherwise have discharged these duties. It is a mere concession to the desire, for local and personal reasons, of the citizens of Dublin. I would point out to the hon. Member that the point at which the Amendment should come is at the end of the first paragraph of Sub-section (3).
    Mr. SPEAKER: Perhaps the hon. Member (Mr. Boland) will withdraw the Amendment now and bring it up at the right place.
    Amendment to the Lords Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
    Lords Amendment agreed to.
    Lords Amendments:
    In Sub-section (3), leave out the word "county" ["and the council of that. county shall be"], and insert instead thereof the words "administrative county or county borough, as the case may be."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "registration. area" ["in cases where the registration. area is not coterminous"], and insert instead thereof the words "Parliamentary county or "Parliamentary borough.''—Agreed to.
    After the word "county" ["or wholly contained in the administrative county"], insert the words "or county borough, as the case may be."—Agreed to.
    After the word "county" ["other administrative county as the Local Government Board"], insert the words "or county borough."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "for Ireland" ["Local Government Board for Ireland."]—Agreed to.
    Mr. BOLAND: I beg to move, in Subsection (3), after the word "person" ["which are performed by the registration officer in person"], to insert the words.
    "Provided also that the person who, at the passing of this Act, is town clerk for the county borough of Dublin shall, so long as he holds that office, be the registration officer for the Parliamentary borough of Dublin, and that the List preceding proviso shall not apply in his case."
    Amendment agreed to.
    Lords Amendments:
    At the end of Sub—section (3), insert as separate paragraphs,
    "(c) In the event of any vacancy in the office of registration officer or in the event of the registration officer's incapacity to act, the powers and duties of the registration officer may be exercised and performed by any person temporarily appointed in that behalf by the Lord Chancellor.
    (d) The power of advancing sums to a registration officer on account of registration expenses shall be exercisable by the council by which those expenses are to be paid.
    (e) This Section, in its application to the county of Tipperary, shall have effect as if each Parliamentary division of the county were a separate Parliamentary county, and as if the Clerk of the Crown and Peace for the entire county were Clerk of the Crown and Peace for the administrative counties of the North Riding and the South Riding respectively."—Agreed to.
    In Sub-section (5), leave out the word "them" ["shall apply to them as they apply"], and insert instead thereof the words "those persons."—Agreed to.
    At the end of Sub-section (5), insert the words "with the necessary modifications and in particular with the modification that assistant judges may be appointed to assist those persons if, in the opinion of the Lord Chancellor, such appointment is necessary in order to enable the appeals to be disposed of with proper dispatch."—Agreed to.
    In Sub-section (7), leave out the words, "The expression 'the administrative county' includes a county borough, and."—Agreed to.
    After the word "expression" ["and the expression overseer' "], insert the word "assistant."—Agreed to.
    At the end of Sub-section (8), insert the words, "Provided that the liability of a clerk of the Crown and Peace to account for sums other than registration expenses received by him as registration officer shall not extend to any such increase of salary."—Agreed to.
    Leave out Sub-section (9), and insert instead thereof as a new Sub-section,
    "(9) The provisions with respect to the division of a constituency into polling districts and provision of polling places shall have effect with the following modifications:
    1966

    (a) A reference to the council by which the registration expenses of the registration officer for any constituency are to be paid shall be substituted for the reference to the council whose clerk the registration officer for any constituency is, or by whom the registration officer is appointed.

    (b) The powers of a council under the said provisions shall be exercised in accordance with rules made by the Local Government Board, and any exercise of the powers shall be subject to confirmation by that Board who may confirm the proposed division, appointment, or alteration either with or without modifications, or may withhold confirmation.

    (c) The Board may cause a local inquiry to be held as respects any questions arising in connection with the said provisions, and Article thirty-two of the Schedule to the Local Government (Application of Enactments) Order, 1898, shall apply to any such inquiry."—Agreed to.

    In Sub-section (10), after the word "officer" ["duties by an acting returning officer"], insert the words "or with respect to place of election."—Agreed to.
    Mr. M. HEALY: I beg to move, in Subsection (10), after the word "schools," to insert the words "or with respect to freemen in boroughs."
    I hope the right hon. Gentleman will see his way to accept this Amendment, which is consequential on an Amendment which this House made last night practically reviving in England the freeman franchise. The only effect of applying this to Ireland would be to apply it to boroughs. No one wants that. It is a quite unnecessary expense. English boroughs may desire something of this kind, but in Ireland nothing of the kind is necessary. There has not been a Freeman's List in Cork City prepared for thirty-five years. The remnants of the old list is brought forward year after year, and it is a dwindling list, and a new edition of it is practically never made. I should imagine that in Dublin there has not been such a list for six or seven years. On the question of machinery there is this to be said, that a freeman in order to vote need not live in the borough; he may live in it or within seven miles of it. Consequently when you are preparing a list you have to

    1967
    make special provision as to the freemen who are not resident in the borough. Take a divided borough. When a freeman does not live in the borough it is quite obvious that ha is a voter at large. The result of this Schedule will be that we have further Amendments reviving this antiquated provision in the franchise.
    Mr. DUKE: May I call the hon. and learned Gentleman's attention to the fact that the Clause which ho is criticising gives the option to the council of the borough to decide for itself whether it will have a list of freemen or not. If that is so the considerations he is urging will not arise.
    Mr. HEALY: I regard that as an additional objection. I thought the one thing we might hope for when the Bill was passed was uniformity of franchise. This Clause necessarily creates non-uniformity between county and borough, and the particular part of it to which the right hon. Gentleman points has the effect of creating a want of uniformity in different boroughs. I cannot but think it most objectionable that the right to the Parliamentary franchise should depend on anything but the Statute law. It is an entirely new principle in our legislation that a man's right to vote shall be decided otherwise than by law irrespective of any local determination. Before the Reform Act every borough' had its own franchise dependent on its charter. I cannot but think that the revival of that state of things is owing to the gentlemen who shed tears over the liverymen. I wonder they did riot put up a plea for the potwalloper, and seek to move our feelings on behalf of that estimable class of person who no longer figure in our electoral system. The. Government has not at all scrupled to make exceptions in the case of Ireland where it was thought necessary or desirable. In England you have under this Bill the right to hold your election meetings in schools, but. that right does not. extend to Ireland. This is a matter which has been sprung upon everyone. It was not. until late last night that I saw that there had been super-added to this livery proposal a general freeman's franchise. The thing has not been published. The Lords Amendments have not been generally set up in the newspapers. No one is aware of what is being done. This is a remnant of an obsolete past, and it is revived not. for any useful purpose, but simply because there is a cry raised in
    1968
    London about the liveryman. That is the root of the whole thing. Until the livery question was raised no one in England wanted the freemen's vote. Certainly no one in Ireland wanted it. Accordingly I take this opportunity of moving that this be one of the provisions of the Bill which shall not extend to Ireland.
    Motion not seconded. Lords Amendments:
    In Sub-section (11), after the word "person" ["a person who has been serving"], insert the words "who is a naval or military voter."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "or military" ["naval or military forces"], and insert instead thereof the words "military or air."—Agreed to.
    At the end of paragraph (a), insert the words "and has ceased so to serve."—Agreed to.
    At the end of the Clause, insert as new Sub-sections,
    "(13) A person shall not be entitled to be registered or vote for a Parliamentary county constituency in respect of a qualification in a Parliamentary borough constituency.
    (14) The following proviso shall be substituted for the proviso at the end of Sub-section (2) of Section eight: 'Nothing in this provision shall prevent a person voting at an election to fill a casual vacancy in a borough council in any ward for which he is registered.' "—Agreed to.
    After Clause 40, insert new Clause (Temporary Provision as to Revision of Constituencies and Registration).—Disagreed with.

  FIRST SCHEDULE.

    Registration Rules.
    2. The register shall, as respects each registration unit, contain the names of those who are entitled to vote as Parliamentary electors and of those who are entitled to vote as local government electors, but shall be framed so as to show in separate divisions the names of those who are entitled to vote both as Parliamentary and local government electors, the names of those who are entitled to vote as Parliamentary electors but not as local government electors, and the names of those who are entitled to vote as local government electors but not as Parliamentary electors.
    Where a person whose name. is entered as a local government elector in any registration unit is not entitled to vote in respect of that entry at the local government elections for all the local government electoral areas which comprise that unit, the registration officer shall place a mark against his name, with a note to signify that the person against whose name the mark is placed is entitled to vote only for the local government elections mentioned in the note, and any such note shall be deemed to be part of the register.
    3. The registration officer shall prepare and include in the register as a separate list for the whole registration area, or where the area includes more than one constituency, for each constituency in the area a list of those entitled to vote as absent voters (in this Act referred to as the absent voters' list) without, however, removing the names of those voters from any other part of the register.
    4. Where the registration unit is situated in a Parliamentary borough, the names in the register shall be arranged in street order, unless the authority whose clerk the registration officer is or by whom he is appointed considers that, having regard to the general character of the area forming the registration unit, arrangement in street order is inapplicable; and where the registration unit is situated in a Parliamentary county, the names in the register shall be arranged in alphabetical order, unless the said authority considers that, having regard to the general character of the area forming the registration unit, arrangement in street order is possible and convenient.
    7. The registration officer, where he does not himself perform the duties of overseers, may require the overseers of any parish which, or any part of which, forms a registration unit within his registration area to prepare the electors' lists for that unit on his behalf, and it shall be the duty of the overseers to furnish lists as so required, and also at any time, if required by the registration officer, to furnish that officer with information respecting any persons resident, or occupying land or premises in their parish, or the removal of any person from the parish.
    Any reasonable expenses incurred by the overseers in performing any duties required of them in pursuance of this rule (including reasonable remuneration where
    1970
    the duties are performed by an assistant overseer or other paid officer) shall be paid by the registration officer as part of his registration expenses. In this rule the expression "overseers" includes any person for the time being executing any of the duties of overseers.
    8. The registration officer shall publish, together with the electors' lists, the corrupt and illegal practices list (if any) made by him under Section thirty-nine of the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Prevention Act, 1883.
    10. The form of claim shall contain a declaration of the qualification of the claimant to be registered, including a declaration that the claimant has attained the required age, and is a British subject, and of the character in which the claimant desires to be registered, that is to say, either as a Parliamentar elector or as a local government elector, or as a local government elector who is riot entitled to vote for all local government elections, and where the claimant claims in respect of a non-residential qualification a declaration of residence or in case such person has no settled residence an address to which communications may be sent. A note shall also be added to the form warning the claimant that any false declaration for the purpose of this provision will involve a penalty.
    13 (a). It shall be the duty of the registration officer to publish a list of the names of persons to whose registration notice of objection has been given as soon as practicable after the seventh day of March in the case of the spring register and the fourth day of September in the case of the autumn register.
    14. Any person entitled to be registered as a Parliamentary elector may, before the fifteenth day of February where the claim is for the spring register, and the fifteenth day of August where the claim is for the autumn register, claim to be placed on the absent voters' list: and the registration officer, if satisfied that there is a probability that the claimant, by reason of the nature of his occupation, service, or employment, may be debarred from voting at a poll at Parliamentary elections held during the time the register is in force, shall place the claimant on the absent voters' list.
    15. It shall be the duty of the registration officer, without any claim being made

    1971
    for the purpose, to place on the absent voters' list any person registered as a naval or military voter, unless—

    (a) that person before the fifteenth day of February as respects the spring register, and the fifteenth day of August as respects the autumn register, gives notice to the registration officer that he does not desire to be placed upon that list; or

    (b) that person is registered, in pursuance of a claim for the purpose, for the constituency in which he has an actual residence qualification.

    16. The registration officer shall keep a record of any address which may be furnished to him by any person placed on the absent voters' list, or by the Admiralty or Army Council, as the address which is to be for the time being the address of the voter for the purpose of the provisions relating to voting by absent voters and shall cause instructions to be sent to the voter as to the mode of voting under those provisions.
    The record of addresses shall be open to inspection under the same conditions that govern the register.
    17. The naval and military authorities shall furnish to the registration officer, for the purpose of the registration of persons as naval or military voters, and their voting as such, such information as may be prescribed after consultation with the Admiralty arid Army Council respectively.
    21. The registration officer shall make such additions and corrections in the electors' lists (including the absent voters' list) as are required in order to carry out his decisions on any objections or claims and shall also make any such corrections in those lists by way of the removal of duplicate entries (subject to any expression of choice by the person affected as to those entries), the expunging of the names of persons who are dead, or the placing of marks, or the correction of marks placed, against the name of an elector, or otherwise as he thinks necessary in order to secure that no person is registered as a Parliamentary elector in respect of more than one qualification in the same constituency, and otherwise make those lists complete and accurate as a register.
    22. Any person whose name shall appear in the list of voters of any parish in any
    1972
    county constituency and who resides outside the polling district in which he is entitled to be registered, shall be at liberty to make his claim before the registration officer to be registered to vote at any other polling place within the same constituency.
    Any person so registered shall be admitted to vote at such polling place accordingly.
    24. The registration officer shall make all the necessary corrections of the lists (including the absent voters' list) and do everything necessary to form those lists into a register in time to allow the publication of the lists so corrected as a register as required by these rules.
    29. Where the registration officer by these rules is required to publish any document, and no specific provision is made as to the mode of publication, he shall publish the document by making copies of the document available for inspection by the public in his office, and in the chief post office (if the Postmaster-General gives authority for the purpose), or some other convenient place in the area forming the registration unit. to which the document relates and, if he thinks fit, in any other manner which is, in his opinion, desirable for the purpose of bringing the contents of the document to the notice of those interested.
    32. Any claim or notice of objection which is under these rules to be sent to the registration officer may be sent to him by post addressed to him at his office.
    Any notice which is required to be sent by the registration officer under these rules to any person shall be sufficiently sent if sent by post to the address of that person as given by him for the purpose, or as appearing on the register, or if there is no such address, to his last known place of abode.
    33. The registration officer may require any householder or any person owning or occupying any land or premises within his area, or the agent or factor of such person, to give, in the prescribed form, any information in his possession which the registration officer may require for the purpose of his duties as registration officer; and if any person fails to give the required information, or gives false infor-

    1973
    mation, he shall be liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds.

    Application of Rules to Scotland and Ireland.
    39. These rules shall apply to Scotland subject to the following modifications, namely:
    The Secretary for Scotland shall be substituted for the Local Government Board;
    The provision for the transmission of a copy of the register to the Local Government Board shall not apply.
    40. These rules shall apply to Ireland subject to the following modifications, namely:
    (1) References to the Local Government Board shall be construed as references to the Local Government Board for Ireland.
    (2) The district electoral division as constituted under the Local Government (Ireland) Act, 1898, shall be the registration unit; but—

    (a) where a district electoral division is divided into wards, each such ward shall be treated as a separate registration unit; and

    (b) where a district electoral division is situate partly in one Parliamentary polling district, partly in another, or partly within and partly without any town (within the meaning of the Local Government (Ireland) Act, 1898), or ward of a borough or town, each part shall be treated as a separate registration unit;

    and references to parishes or parts of parishes shall be construed as references to registration units.
    (5) The power of the registration officer in certain cases, to require the overseers to perform duties in connection with registration under this Act shall be construed in all cases as an obligation upon him to require each person holding the office of overseer to perform duties analogous to the duties which, but for the passing of this Act, would have been performed by that person by virtue of his office under the enactments relative to registration in force at the commencement of this Act, and it shall be the duty of every such person to comply with those requirements.
    (6) The overseers shall be entitled to payment for services performed and expenses incurred by them in the execution of any duties under these rules. The payments shall be made at such times as may be fixed by order of the Local Government Board for Ire land under this Schedule, and any sum. payable to an overseer under this provision shall be treated for the purposes of this Act as part of the expenses of the registration officer on whose requisition the services were performed or the expenses were incurred.
    This provision shall apply to any superintendent registrar of births and. deaths or clerk of the union who is not an existing clerk of the union, so far as respects lists or information supplied by him in connection with deaths or persons in receipt of poor relief in like manner as it applies to overseers.
    13. It shall be the duty of the registration officer to publish a list of the names of persons to whose registration notice of objection has been given as soon as practicable after the seventh day of March in the ease of the spring register and the fourth day of September in the case of the autumn register.
    Lords Amendments:
    In Rule 2, leave out the words "entitled to vote only," and insert instead thereof the words "not entitled to vote.''— Agreed to.
    In Rule 3, leave out the words "include in" ["and include in the register"], and insert instead thereof the words "add as a. supplement to."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the word "as" ["as a separate list"].—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "for the whole registration area, or, where the area includes more than one constituency, for each constituency in the area," and insert instead thereof the words "each polling district in the registration."
    The SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Sir G. Cave): I beg to move, "That this House doth disagree with the Lords in the said Amendment"
    Sir W. DICKINSON: This has relation to the absent voters, and it is proposed to put the absent voter in two places on the register. At one time I took objection to that. I thought it was not advisable to put them on the regular register and also

    1975
    on the supplemental register. I believe there has been a difference of opinion between the experts as to the advisability of it; and the experts have advised the Home Office that it would be better to put the name in two places on the register. There are objections to having the names twice, on the ground of impersonation. I do riot think there is any provision for insisting that the absent voter's name on the ordinary lists shall have a distinctive mark. It is absolutely essential that that should be so; but in the rule as to the marking of the register there is no provision to ensure that. I think it might be done by regulation afterwards. It is very essential that if a man is an absent voter and his name is put on the absent voters' list there should be no possibility of his giving a vote or somebody else giving a vote for him in respect of the name on the ordinary list.
    Sir G. CAVE: The only object of the Amendment would be to require that the absent voters' list should be divided into polling districts and should be available either as a whole or in parts for the polling districts. I quite appreciate the point which the right hon. Gentleman has raised, and I think it can be done by regulations or orders. I think it ought to be dons, and I will call attention to it.
    Lords Amendment disagreed with.
    Lords Amendment:
    In Rule 3, leave out the words "a list of those," and insert instead thereof the words "of persons."—Disagreed with.
    Sir G. CAVE: I beg to move, at the end of Rule 3, to insert the words "every such list shall be made out according to polling districts."
    Amendment agreed to.
    Lords Amendments:
    In Rule 4, leave out the word "Parliamentary," and insert instead thereof the word "municipal."—Disagreed with.
    Leave out the words "situated in a Parliamentary county," and insert instead thereof the words "not situated in a municipal borough."—Disagreed with.
    In Rule 7, after the word "to" ["to prepare the electors' lists"], insert the words "make the necessary inquiries and to."—Agreed to.
    After the word "unit" ["unit on his behalf"], insert the words "and publish the lists in the unit."—Agreed to.
    At the end of Rule 8, insert the words "or made by or sent to him under Section twenty-four of the Municipal Elections (Corrupt and Illegal Practices) Act, 1884."—Agreed to.
    In Rule 10, after the word "claim" ["The form of a claim"], insert the words "for a person making a claim on his own behalf."
    Sir G. CAVE: I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
    Mr. M. HEALY: Will the right hon. Gentleman say what is the object of the Amendment? I think it is meant to dispense with the personal claim. In Committee we inserted words which made it necessary for the voter to make a personal claim, but there are difficulties in regard to that, and I hope the right hon. Gentleman is going to make provision to enable a claim to be made, not necessarily personally, but by somebody else.
    The PRESIDENT of the LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. Hayes Fisher): We intend that the claim can be made by somebody else, and that he need not make it on his own behalf. Unless these words are put in it appears that certain penalties may be attached to persons who claim on behalf of somebody else. This Amendment is to enable the registration officers to take the claim from some other person and to prevent any penalties being imposed upon that person or to make it difficult for him to make a claim on behalf of somebody else.
    Lords Amendment agreed to.
    Lords Amendments:
    At the end of Rule 10, insert the words "Where a claim is made on behalf of a claimant by another person, the registration officer shall not enter the name of the claimant on the register, unless the matters required to be stated in the declaration under the foregoing provision are proved to his satisfaction."—Agreed to.
    After Rule 13, insert as a new rule,
    "(14) It shall be the duty of the registration officer to publish a list of the names of persons to whose registration notice of objection has been given not later than the twenty-first day of February in the case of the spring register and not later than the twenty-first day of August in the case of the autumn register."—Agreed
    In Rule 13 (a), after "persons" ["the names of persons"], insert the words "included in the list of claimants."—Agreed to.
    In Rule 14, leave out the words "before the fifteenth," and insert the words "not later than the eighteenth."—Agreed to.
    After the word "claimant," insert the words "if registered."—Agreed to.
    In Rule 15, leave out the words "person registered as a."—Agreed to.
    After Rule 15, insert as a new Rule:

    Information to Registration Officers.
    The Admiralty, the Army Council, and the Air Council, either directly or through officers appointed by them, shall in the prescribed manner furnish to the registration officers in the several constituencies such information as to the names and addresses of naval and military voters and such other particulars as may be necessary for the purpose of their registration and of their voting as such, and it shall be the duty of the Local Government Board to render any assistance that may be required by the Admiralty, the Army Council, and the Air Council in conveying such information to the registration officers:
    Provided that the Admiralty, Army Council, and Air Council shall not be required to supply any particulars which in their declared opinion would interfere with the proper conduct of the War.
    Lords Amendment read a second time.
    Sir G. CAVE: I beg to move, as an Amendment to the Lords Amendment, to leave out the word "and" ["and the Air Council"], and to insert after the words "Air Council" the words "and the Board of Trade."
    The intention of the Lords was that this new Rule should take the place of Rule 17. For myself, I think that reliance might very well be placed on the naval and military authorities, who have been most anxious to give all information, but, if it is desired, to specify in more detail the information which may be asked for, I have no objection.
    Amendment to the lords Amendment agreed to.
    Lords Amendments, as amended (with further drafting Amendment), agreed to.
    Lords Amendments:
    In Rule 16, after the word "and" ["and shall cause"], insert the words "as soon as practicable."—Agreed to.
    Leave out Rule 17.—Agreed to.
    In Rule 21, after the word "dead," insert the words "or subject to any legal incapacity."
    Sir G. CAVE: I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
    Mr. HEALY: The question of notice arises on this. It would be only fair that the person whose name is to be struck off should get notice.
    Sir G. CAVE: That point is met by Rule 23.
    Mr. WHITEHOUSE: I am doubtful whether that quite covers the point, because, taking the words which precede the Amendment, "expunging the names of persons who are dead," this would follow the same procedure.
    Sir G. CAVEindicated dissent.
    Lords Amendment agreed to.
    Lords Amendment:
    In Rule 21, after the word "constituency," insert the words,
    "or as a local government elector in. respect of more than one qualification—

    (a) in the same borough for the purpose of borough council elections; or,

    (b) in the same electoral division or ward for the purpose of county council, metropolitan borough council, and urban district council elections; or,

    (c) in the same parish or ward of a. parish for the purpose of rural district council, guardians, or parish. elections."—Agreed to.

    >
    In Rule 22, after the word "of" ["rest of voters"], insert the word. "Parliamentary."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the word "parish," and insert the words "registration unit"—Agreed to.
    After the word "constituency," insert the words "or district of boroughs."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "to be registered"-["to be registered to vote"].—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "any person not registered," and insert the words "any such persons."—Agreed to.
    In Rule 24, after the word "register," insert the words "with a separate letter and a separate series of numbers for each polling district."—Agreed to.
    In Rule 29, at end of first paragraph, insert the words "any document required to be published shall be kept published for the prescribed time.''—Agreed to.
    In Rule 32, leave out "register" and insert "lists."—Agreed to.
    At the end of Rule 33, insert the words "any notice requiring information under this rule may be sent by post."—Agreed to.
    After the words last inserted, add as a New Rule,
    "34. The Local Government Board shall collect from the naval and military and air force authorities, the tribunals established for the purpose of the Military Service Act, 1916, and other available sources such information, as it is reasonably practicable to obtain, with reference to persons disqualified on account of conscientious objection to military service from being registered and voting under this Act, and shall place any information so collected at the disposal of registration officers by whom inspection thereof shall be given under the same conditions that govern the register."
    Mr. MORRELL: I beg to move, "That this House doth disagree with the Lords in the said Amendment.
    I think that this Amendment violates the spirit of the pledges that were given at the time the disqualification of conscientious objectors was inserted. We were assured again and again by the Government when they inserted these disqualifying Clauses that it was not for any purposes of penalising these men, and that there was no penalty intended. We were told that they are disqualified simply because they were unfit to exercise the vote. It is very questionable, indeed, whether it would have been in order to penalise them, but this Amendment introduced by the Lords is of a directly penalising character. It instructs the Local Government Board to prepare a kind of black list of conscientious objectors and to send it down to the local registration officer in order that it may be posted on the doors of churches and chapels and other public places for everyone to look at. So far as I can see this black list will apply, not merely to the men who are legally disqualified, but it will include those who are or may be disqualified if they fail to prove
    1980
    that they have done work of national importance. This is a very important point, because you may be unfairly stigmatising men who, after all, are entitled to vote. As this Bill is now drawn, any person being a conscientious objector may be disqualified during the continuance of the War and for a certain period thereafter, unless at the expiration of one year after the War he proves certain things to a tribunal specially established for that purpose. This Clause will involve the posting up not only of the names of all people who are disqualified, but also the names of those who have done National Service and whom it is not intended to disqualify. They will all be posted up by the local registration officer, and when a man sees himself thus posted he will have to go to the Central Tribunal within a year after the termination of the War and try to prove that he has done certain work of national importance. That is a most objectionable and most unfair proceeding, and it is entirely contrary to the spirit of the pledges given when these disqualifying Clauses were being passed through Parliament.
    Personally, I cannot see why any provision of this sort is necessary. Why should you wish to deal with men who are disqualified because they are conscientious objectors differently from the method in which you treat those disqualified for other reasons These men will be known locally: the local registration officer would know all about them. Why, then, put the Local Government Board to the expense and trouble of preparing special lists and sending them down to the local registration officer? This is a costly and most unfair policy, and I sincerely hope that the Government, in the interests of fair play to these men, will not insist on agreeing with this Amendment from the other House. Why thus brand men who stand up for conscience? Is it worth while having a Clause of this sort? Public feeling as regards these men to-day is very different from what it was a little while ago. At the recent Labour conference at Nottingham. at which certain members of the Government were present, a resolution was passed demanding the immediate release of conscientious objectors. I cannot believe it is in the public interest that you should attempt to penalise these men further than you have already done. To blacken away a man's name is a serious matter. It is a more serious matter to put him on a black list, which will certainly be

    1981
    regarded with great disfavour by certain sections of the community, when that man may still be entitled to his vote. I ask the House to disagree with this Amendment.
    Mr. WHITEHOUSE: I agree with all that has been said by my hon. Friend (Mr. Morrell) in moving that the House disagree with this Amendment. It would be entirely impossible to carry it out in any fair way. It directs the military authorities, the air forces authorities, and the naval authorities, amongst others, to prepare lists of persons who are conscientious objectors. The military authorities will have records of courts-martial on conscientious objectors, and, presumably, will be able to supply the names of men who, on these grounds, came under discipline. But they would have no knowledge whatever of those conscientious objectors who, although they have come under discipline, are qualified to exercise the franchise in accordance with provisions which have already been incorporated in this Bill. Therefore all the authorities can do is to supply a list of conscientious objectors, but not a list of those who, nevertheless, under the conditions inserted in the Bill, are legally qualified to exercise the franchise. My first objection to the Clause is that it is perfectly unworkable in this respect. How, then, can it operate? The effect will be that there will be printed and published all over the country lists which will be accessible to public reference in precisely the same way that the ordinary registration lists are accessible to men who are held to be disqualified from voting, although many of them will be qualified legally to exercise the vote, and a disqualification which does not exist will consequently be imposed upon them by inference. The Clause will also give rise to very great injustice. But there is another reason, which is even more important, why the House should disagree with this Amendment, and it is based upon the ground of public policy. No one can desire at the end of this War to prepare a kind of black list of some of the most highly respected and honoured citizens of this country, highly respected and honoured before the War and who will be highly respected and honoured after the War—
    Sir C. HENRY: By whom?
    Mr. WHITEHOUSE: I, for one, at the present time highly respect and honour them. To make a black list of these citizens is contrary to public policy, and
    1982
    it can only have one result. It will incite the kind of petty passion and prejudice which we all know it is so easy to create against men who have taken an unpopular stand during the War.
    The decision which has been arrived at with regard to conscientious objectors is simply this. A voter who is a conscientious objector has to obtain from the appropriate tribunal a certificate to show that he has complied with the provisions set forth in the Act relating to their qualifications to that Section of the Act which relates to the qualifications they must have before they can vote. The arrangement, however unjust it may be—and I think it is a very unjust and improper arrangement to find a place in this Bill at all—is at least a clear arrangement and a definite plan, and those who are conscientious objectors know precisely under the Bill as it now stands what they have to do in order to secure a qualification to exercise the franchise. This new Clause entirely upsets that arrangement and brings a new and most disturbing element into the matter. It would not only operate unjustly to a large body of citizens, but it would also be contrary to the public interest and public good, and I sincerely trust that the Government will offer no objection to the Motion that has been made.
    Mr. FISHER: I am not sorry that the Motion has been made to disagree with the Lords in this Amendment, and while I am willing to accept that Motion I differ entirely from the Mover and Seconder of the Motion, both in regard to their opinions of the conscientious objector who, they seem to think, ought to be placed on a special roll of honour—
    Mr. KING: No!
    Mr. FISHER: —for their deeds, or, rather, want of deeds, in the present War—I should hold a very different opinion myself—and in regard to their references to the Local Government Board. After all, I do not think there is the slightest foundation for saying that the Local Government Board, either here or in Scotland, are in the least likely to lend themselves to place any class of men on a black list, or in any way to persecute any men who, by the Rules of this House, are to be penalised as regards the vote. I am, therefore, sorry that the Mover of the Motion suggested that the Local

    1983
    Government Board will lend itself to anything in the nature of persecution or placing conscientious objectors on the black list merely because the Local Government Board has been asked under this Amendment to ascertain all the available information as regards the conscientious objectors for the sole purpose of providing the registration officer with information in order that he may make his list correct as regards conscientious objectors. The reason I am glad the Motion has been made to disagree with the Lords in this Amendment is that, as President of the Local Government Board, I have scrutinised the Amendment very carefully. I believe that the labour placed on the Local Government Board by this Amendment would be extraordinary, that it would result. in an immense amount of labour, posting, and printing, and that for all that you would get little or no value. After all, if we are to try to ascertain all the information—though I quite admit that the Amendment limits it to what it is reasonably practicable to obtain—about some thousands of conscientious objectors by applying to the War Office. the Admiralty, the Air Board, then to the 1,800 tribunals in the country—
    Mr. KING: And to the prisons!
    2.0 P.M.
    Mr. FISHER: —and then, having obtained that information, we are to sort it out, segregate it, and collate it, and send these lists down to all the registration officers throughout the country, by the time it reaches them I should like to know what good it will he to them with regard to the particular register they have to make up. It is because of that practical objection to this Amendment that I am glad the Motion to disagree with it has been moved, and not because of the suggestion that the Local Government Board would lend itself in any way to persecute or put these men on a black list.
    Mr. T. WILSON: I am glad the Government have accepted this Motion. I agree with the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Fisher) that if the Amendment had been accepted it would have been like using a hundred-ton gun to shoot sparrows with. I would like to say, further, that. the Government would be well-advised to avoid any irritating resolu-
    1984
    tions at all so far as labour is concerned. As has been said, the Labour Conference at Nottingham last week carried with acclamation a resolution with regard to conscientious objectors, and I am quite sure that if the Government accepted Clauses like this in their Bill they would simply supply the agitators with ammunition to use against the Government, I certainly do not agree with the attitude taken up by the conscientious objectors in connection with the War. I absolutely disagree with them, but I believe by introducing Amendments like this you are simply magnifying the importance of the conscientious objector. The chief objection that I, like the right hon. Gentleman, have to this Amendment is that it will increase the work of his Department, and will throw an enormous amount of labour on the Army and naval authorities as well, while, adding expense to the country in administering the Act.
    Mr. HEALY: I also must express my satisfaction that this proposal has been dropped.
    Mr. KING: I should like to say that I am very pleased that this decision has. been taken by the Local Government Board. We might have saved time if inquiries that were instituted had not pointed to the fact that the Government were likely to accept this Amendment. We were told privately that that was so.
    Mr. FISHER: I must say that there was no foundation whatever for that. Lobby gossip, as the hon. Gentleman knows, is very often unfounded.
    Mr. KING: That gives me very great pleasure indeed. I am very glad to be misinformed in a way which is unpleasant to myself and to others. I entirely withdraw any implication. I was wrongly informed, and if others had not been wrongly informal we should have got on more rapidly
    Lords Amendment disagreed with. Lords Amendments:
    After Rule 35, insert as a new Rule,
    "36. Where for the purpose of the provisions of this Act any person requires a certificate of birth, that person shall, on presenting a written requisition in the prescribed form and containing the prescribed particulars, and on payment of a fee of 6d., be entitled to obtain a certified copy of any entry of the birth

    1985
    of that person in the birth register under the hand of the registrar or the superintendent registrar having the custody thereof, and forms of requisition for the purpose shall on application be supplied without charge by every registrar of births and deaths and by every superintendent registrar."—Agreed to.
    After Rule 38, insert as a new Rule,
    "39. In reckoning time for the purpose of these Rules, Sunday, Christmas Day, Good Friday, and any Bank Holiday or day set apart as a public holiday, or day of public fast, or public thanksgiving shall be excluded; and where anything is required by these Rules to be done on any day falls to be done on any such day, that thing may be done on the next day not being one of any such days."—Agreed to.

    Application of Rules to Scotland and Ireland.
    39. These Rules shall apply to Scotland subject to the following modifications, namely:
    The Secretary for Scotland shall be substituted for the Local Government Board:
    The provision for the transmission of a copy of the register to the Local Government Board shall not apply.
    At end of Rule 39, insert the words,
    "Rule 2 shall apply as if after the words 'in separate divisions' there were inserted the words 'or otherwise to distinguish.'
    "For the reference to Section 24 of the Municipal Elections (Corrupt and Illegal Practices) Act, 1884, there shall be substituted a reference to Section 29 of the Elections (Scotland) (Corrupt and Illegal Practices) Act, 1890."—Agreed to.
    In Rule 40 (2, b), leave out the words "be construed as references to registration units," and insert instead thereof the words "not apply."—Agreed to.
    At the end of paragraph (5), insert the words,
    "in order to give full effect to the foregoing provision, the Clerk of the Crown and Peace for a county borough shall, as respects any Parliamentary borough for which he is registration officer, appoint the town clerk of the county borough to act as his deputy for the purposes of Rules 9 to 14 and for the purpose of publishing the lists and
    1986
    notices to be published under Rules 6 and 8 of this Schedule if the town clerk so desires, and any town clerk so appointed shall, for the purposes aforesaid, have the like powers and duties and be subject to the like liabilities as if he were registration officer.
    "Any question which may arise as to what duties are analogous duties within the meaning of the provision aforesaid shall be determined by the Local Government Board, whose determination shall be final."—Agreed to.
    In paragraph 6, after the word "the" ["a part of the expenses"], insert the word "registration."—Agreed to.
    After the word "him" ["by him. in connection with"], insert the words "on the requisition of the registration officer."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "or persons in receipt of Poor Law relief."—Agreed to.
    After paragraph (7), insert as new paragraphs,
    "(8) Rule 2 of this Schedule shall be construed as if the words 'or otherwise to distinguish' were inserted after the words 'in separate divisions.'
    "(9) For the direction to the registration officer in Rule 22 of this Schedule to secure that no person is registered as a local government elector in respect of more than one qualification in the areas and for the purposes therein specified, there shall be substituted a direction to secure that no person is registered as a local government elector in respect of more than one qualification in the same district, electoral division, or ward."
    Lords Amendment read a second time.
    Mr. DUKE: I beg to move as an Amendment to the Lords Amendment, after the word "divisions" to insert the words "and as if the direction as to placing marks against the names of local government electors were omitted."
    Amendment agreed to.
    Lords Amendment, as amended, agreed to.

  SECOND SCHEDULE.—PART I.

    Modifications of the Ballot Act, 1872 (First Schedule).
    The following provisions shall be inserted in the First Schedule to the Ballot Act, 1872, after Rules, 2, 14, and 61 respectively, that is to say:
    "2A. In an election of members to serve in a new Parliament of the United Kingdom the day fixed by the returning officer for the election shall in all cases be the eighth clay after the date of His Majesty's gracious Proclamation declaring the calling of the Parliament."
    "14A. In an election of members to serve in a new Parliament of the United Kingdom, the day appointed by the returning officer for the poll shall in all cases be she ninth day after the day fixed for the election."
    "61.A. The provisions of Rule sixty-one, other than those relating to the keeping open of the polls for two consecutive days, shall not apply in an election of members to serve in a new Parliament of the United Kingdom."
    Lords Amendments:
    Leave out the words "14 and 61," and insert instead thereof "and 14."— Agreed to.
    Leave out paragraph 61A.—Agreed to.

  THIRD SCHEDULE.

    Provisions as to Voting by Proxy.
    6. An elector shall not appoint more than one person as proxy to vote on his behalf.
    9. The Ballot Act, 1872, and any other Act regulating the holding of Parliamentary elections, including any provisions imposing penalties in connection with voting at those elections, shall apply to persons voting as proxies in pursuance of this Act as they apply to voters, however described in those Acts, with such modifications as may be made by Regulations under this Act for the purpose of adapting the provisions of those Acts to voting by proxy; and any provisions of those Acts imposing penalties for offences in connection with ballot papers or the official mark on a ballot paper may be applied by those Regulations to proxy papers and any official mark on a proxy paper.
    10. If any person—

    (a) to whom or on whose behalf a proxy paper for any constituency has been issued under this Act, himself votes or attempts to vote at any Parliamentary election in that constituency otherwise than by means of the proxy paper, while the proxy paper is in force; or

    1988

    (b) votes or attempts to vote as proxy on behalf of more than two absent voters at an election in any constituency unless that person is voting as the husband or wife or the parent, brother, or sister of the absent voter; or

    (c) votes or attempts to vote at any election under the authority of a proxy paper when he knows or has reasonable grounds for supposing that the proxy paper has been cancelled, or that the elector to whom or on whose behalf the proxy paper has been issued is dead or no longer entitled to vote at that election;

    that person shall be guilty of a corrupt practice other than personation within the meaning of the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Prevention Act, 1883, and the expression "corrupt practice" shall be construed accordingly: Provided that the Court before whom a person is convicted under this Section may, if they think it just in the special circumstances of the case, mitigate or entirely remit any incapacity imposed by Section six of the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Prevention Act, 1883.
    11. A ballot paper shall not be delivered to a person who claims to vote as proxy for the purpose of so voting unless he produces the proxy paper to the presiding officer at the polling station, and such questions may be asked of any person at a Parliamentary election who claims to vote as proxy for any elector (in addition to those already authorised to be asked) as may be prescribed by regulations made under this Act.
    14. A notice cancelling a proxy paper shall not take effect as respects any election unless it is received by the registration officer on or before the day of election.
    Lords Amendment:
    At the end of paragraph 6, insert the words "in the same constituency."
    Lords Amendment read a second time.
    Mr. SAMUEL: I beg to move, as an Amendment to the Lords Amendment, to add the words "and in any case not more than two persons."
    When this matter was discussed previously, it was pointed out that if an unlimited right was given to appoint a

    1989
    number of proxies, assuming an elector was entitled to vote by proxy, at a number of different places, there would be no effective means of enforcing the Act that persons could not vote more than twice in any General Election, and the object of my Amendment to the Lords proposed Amendment is to make that provision effective. An officer might be at Mesopotamia and be registered here in five or six different places. Under the law as it now stands, his proxy could vote five or six times. But this Bill limits the voting to not more than twice in any circumstances. As the Bill was sent to the Lords the elector was only entitled to appoint one person as his proxy, who would only be in a position to vote twice—as would be the case if the elector himself voted. The House of Lords expressed the view that there was inconvenience in a proxy having to go to perhaps a distant place, and they saw no reason why there should not be different proxies in 'different divisions, but if that was so, the result of that would be that there would be no possible means of preventing each of these proxies exercising the vote or from being able to vote five or six times. I therefore propose an Amendment to insert the words which I have already stated. Under the Bill the elector's right was not to appoint more than one person as his proxy in the same constituency, and my Amendment is that there should be not more than two persons. That would avoid inconvenience, and would not invite the danger which a number of proxies would cause.
    Sir W. DICKINSON: I do not see why the Government should not disagree with the Lords Amendment without any further discussion taking place. The Home Secretary accepted this, and then it was moved, I believe, on behalf of the Government in the Lords. My feeling is that you are trying to make matters too convenient for people. Men in this country who vote twice have to undergo the inconvenience of going to a distant constituency to vote. A man living in London might have to go to Edinburgh, and I do not see why a man should be entitled to appoint more than one proxy or why that proxy should not stand in the same position as the voter himself would hold at the election. I think you should disagree with the Lords Amend-
    1990
    ment, which is open to the objection that four or five proxies might be appointed, and nobody would ever discover it. On the whole, I think it would have been wise if the Home Secretary had disagreed with the Lords Amendment.
    Mr. SAMUEL: If the Government do that I will withdraw my Amendment.
    Sir G. CAVE: The right hon. Gentleman has pointed out that if the course suggested were adopted of appointing a number of proxies it would be very difficult to be sure that the law was not broken by a person voting in more than two place. That is a very strong point In favour of the Amendment, which I accept.
    Amendment to the Lords Amendment agreed to.
    Lords Amendment, as amended, agreed to.
    Lords Amendments:
    In paragraph 9, leave out the words "made by regulations under this Act," and insert instead thereof the word "prescribed."—Agreed to.
    In paragraph 10, leave out the words "to whom or on whose behalf a proxy paper for any constituency has been issued," and insert instead thereof the words "who is for the time being entitled to vote by proxy in a constituency."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "a corrupt practice other than personation," and insert instead thereof the words "illegal practice," and leave out the word "six'' ["Section six"], and insert instead there of the word "ten."—Agreed to.
    In paragraph 11, leave out the words "by Regulations made under this Act."—Agreed to.
    In paragraph 14, leave out the words "on or"—Agreed to.
    Leave out the word "election," and insert instead thereof the word "nomination."—Agreed to.
    At the end, insert as a new paragraph,
    "15. In the application of this Schedule to Scotland the expression 'the registration officer of the constituency in which the elector is registered' means 'the registration officer of the registration area in which the elector is registered.' "—Agreed to.

  FOURTH SCHEDULE.
  Provisions to be Substituted for Part IV. of the First Schedule to 46 and 47 Vict. c. 51, and for Paragraph (3) of Part V. of the Same Schedule.
  FOURTH SCHEDULE.

    Maximum Scale.
    The expenses mentioned above in Parts I., II., and III. of this Schedule, other than personal expenses shall not exceed an amount equal—
    in the case of a county election, to sevenpence for each elector on the register;
    in the case of an election for a borough, to fivepenee for each elector on the register.
    Where there are two or more joint candidates at an election, the maximum amount of expenses mentioned in Parts III. and IV. of this Schedule shall, for each of the joint candidates, be the amount produced by multiplying a single candidate's maximum by one-and-a-half and dividing the result by the number of joint candidates.
    Lords Amendment:
    After the word "expenses" ["personal expenses"], insert the words "and the fee, if any, paid to the election agent."
    Lords Amendment read a second time.
    Sir G. YOUNGER: I beg to move, as an Amendment to the Lords Amendment, to add the words "not exceeding in the case of a county election £75, and in the case of a borough election £50."
    I think it would be better if a fee were mentioned, and that it is not unreasonable that a moderate fee should be paid. so that we may be able to secure the right kind of agent, who will protect us from the pitfalls of the Act.
    Mr. T. WILSON: I think that the Government and the House should not accept the Lords Amendment, even with the suggested alteration. This is an attempt to do something which was attempted before on the Report stage. The promoters then did not carry it to a Division, and if they had they would have been badly beaten. Under the Lords Amendment it would be possible to pay an election agent £500. I do not see any necessity for making any provision for the payment of an election agent over and above what is allowed already. I represent a county constituency and my election agent could be paid £200 under the Bill. I do not want to pay that, or £50, or £75. I can get it done for a
    1992
    great deal less. The Amendment of the hon. Baronet would give the rich man au advantage over the poor man. I think we ought to keep down the cost of elections as much as we possibly can.
    Mr. WATT: I rise to support the position taken up by my hon. Friend who has just spoken. The Amendment, coming. from the rich Peers, would make the expenditure absolutely unlimited, and would be absurd in the extreme. The hon. Baronet saw that point, and the weakness of his case, and that the Peers went much. further than he desired.
    Sir G. YOUNGER: I can assure my hon. Friend that I never prompted the Peers on the matter, nor mentioned it to any of them.
    Mr. WATT: Not having prompted them, but seeing it on the Paper, the hon. Baronet realised that it was very unwise that the expense should be unlimited, and he has introduced this Amendment providing amounts. No one can gainsay that these are moderate fees, but the real point is the limit of expenses of elections. The Liberal and Labour parties have been endeavouring for many years to limit the maximum cost of elections. By this measure now before the House, we have got a more moderate figure. That having been attained, this Amendment overrides its attainment. It puts the fee out side that maximum figure to which we have now got it limited, and the effect of it will be, certainly in my part of the country, and I believe all over the country, that an election agent, knowing his fee is secure, will not be as careful of the expenditure of the money as he would otherwise. He will realise that his fee is secure, and he will be to a certain extent reckless with the maximum sum. One result following upon that will be that the election will not be well fought, because the money will be finished before the election comes on. By putting his election fee into the maximum figure the election agent has clearly in view that if he is not economical, if there is not something left over at the end of the election, he will get no fee. He is therefore bound by that, human nature being as it is, to economise and do things cheaply, so that his fee will be left at the end. No doubt £50 and £75 are by no means excessive amounts, but that is not the point. The point is whether it will be inside the maximum figure or outside. This was well discussed in Committee.
    Sir G. YOUNGER: Very shortly.
    Mr. WATT: I think there were twenty Members who spoke against this, and the Government unfortunately took up the attitude, through the President of the Local Government Board, that these figures were moderate, but he did not indicate, so far as I remember, whether those figures would be inside or outside the maximum. At any rate, it was well discussed in this House, and the Bill in that position was sent up to the Peers, who then say that the election expenses for the Commons are to be greater than the Commons themselves desire. I suggest to the Minister in charge of the Bill that the House will probably divide on this matter. I have a Teller from the Celtic party, which is an indication of the common sense which exists in that party, and we shall certainly go to a Division.
    Mr. T. DAVIES: The discussion on the Report stage is within the recollection of the House. It is true when the discussion commenced there were not many Members present, but later there were a large number in the House and some twelve or fifteen Members spoke, and everyone spoke against the increase in the amount then suggested. I cannot imagine any Amendment coming from the Lords which should have less respect in this House, because the candidates for this House will have to pay this expenditure. I do hope the right hon. Gentleman will do the same as on the Report stage, and allow us to disagree with the Lords Amendment.
    Mr. GULLAND: I should like to say a few words in support of the proposal of the hon. Baronet. It is true this matter was considered in this House on two previous occasions, but I think the House should notice that the figures which are suggested to-day are very much more moderate than those previously suggested, and I would put it to the House that now that these figures have been suggested—£50 for a borough constituency and £75 for a county constituency—the agent should be safeguarded. I am afraid that if you do riot have some provision of this sort you will either have the election run in a way that is not efficient or the poor agent receiving nothing at all. And remember that the agent who carries through the election in a thorough way, so as to secure the return of his candidate, and who is not afraid to spend a penny in the interests of his candidate—by that very fact that man will cut himself off from
    1994
    getting anything, whereas the other man, who is thinking not about his candidate, but his own pocket, will skimp the election expenses and make sure of his own fee. Therefore, it seems to me that if all of us want our elections run in such a way as to win, we should be very wise to begin by putting our agent into a good humour by ensuring that he shall at one and the same time make a good show for us, and get something for his own pocket at the end of the election. The hon. Member for Westhoughton (Mr. T. Wilson) said he could pay his election expenses and keep £200 for his own agent.
    Mr. WILSON: What I said was that I could easily pay my election agent a good fee out of the election expenses under the Bill.
    Mr. GULLAND: I do not know if the hon. Member has made a balance-sheet on the expenses allowed in the Bill and the prices he would have to pay for an election at the present time.
    Mr. WILSON: I do not think I have.
    Mr. GULLAND: Well, I have in detail, and a good many agents have, and it cannot be done. I believe that since we discussed this last the prices of a good many things needed in an election have gone up considerably. The price of paper has mounted during the last few weeks, and, so far as one is informed, will continue to mount. The price of printing, too, is mounting; in fact, everything is going up, and if an election were to take place, not only within the next few months, but within the next few years, not only is there no chance of prices coming down, but there seems to be every prospect of prices going higher. So that as month after month passes, it becomes less possible for an election agent to have anything but the necessary labour to carry on an election. Roughly speaking, this Bill doubles the number of electors in a constituency and halves the amount of the expenses. That is a very serious matter. We have all spent, I will not say up to our maximum, but at any rate we have spent fairly well up to our maximum in past years. We are all for cheap elections. We would be all for getting in for nothing—spending nothing at all—if we could do it; but, at the same time, I think it is very wise that we should not skimp the election agent. The hon. Member for the College Division of Glasgow (Mr. Watt) considered that if an agent is assured of a £50 fee he

    1995
    would be reckless of his other expenses. There is no reason for him to be reckless. If the hon. Member, with that careful mathematical method of his, will work it out, he will find that he runs a great risk of cutting himself out of a good many 'things he would like to do to ensure election. He always has a very stiff fight. I am sure, at the next election if he wants at the last moment to spend something, and the agents says, "If I spend this I shall have nothing left over for my own expenses," the matter will be somewhat awkward. I am quite sure my hon. Friend wants to get in and he wants to treat his agent with the same generosity with which he treats everybody. I would appeal to him—as I am quite sure he has a soft heart—and suggest that he would like to do what is right in this matter. I would like to remind him that under this Bill he is saved the returning officer's expenses that he had to pay before, that he is saved the cost of one postage, which—if my recollection serves me rightly—cost about £50, perhaps £100. What the hon. Member for College Division is going to be saved will he more than even his agent's fee.
    Mr. WATT: £30?
    Mr. GULLAND: I will calculate it out when I sit down. I cannot carry it in my head. But the hon. Member is saved that much, and I think the really chief argument—and very strong argument—in favour of this proposal, that really with these elections in future you must, have capable men is very much to the point. Such a man must be master of the provisions of this new Act, and must take care that the Committee or the people who are to conduct the election do not in coy way transgress the provisions of the Act. Because it must be remembered that in the future we have not only to deal with the old electors, but with new ones—to deal with a large bulk of people, men and women, who previously have had no experience in electioneering. You have got to steer a most difficult course. In regard to all these cases you have got, since we last discussed the matter, more difficulties in the cases, and all that range of naval and military voters, absent voters, and proxy voters which will make the matter extraordinarily difficult for any election agent to steer his way through. I feel that unless you have really capable agents you are going to get into such
    1996
    trouble that there will be election petitions all over the place. It would be a very sad thing if we began this new system, that all of us wish to try, with a. flood of election petitions. The only way to save that is by having capable agents. and the only way to have capable agents 75 to pay them, at any rate, like other' people—a living wage. There is security in the Bill that such men will have a living wage. There s no security that they will have any wage at all. I, therefore, think it is only right that we should adopt a reasonable and moderate proposal like that now put forward, to make sure that we shall, at all events, have at the first election matters. going smoothly and easily.
    Mr. FISHER: The Government have not in this matter suggested either agreement or disagreement with this particular Amendment to the Clause. It is not because they have no opinion on the subject. but because they thought it would be better to ascertain something of the opinion of the House before they expressed' any opinion of their own. On a previous occasion, when I took part in a similar Debate in this House, the particular figure put forward as the sum which might be given to the agent was £100 in a borough and £150 in a county. That was considered h. some to be too high a figure. We were not then discussing a figure of £50, or £75, but, as I say, of £100 to an agent in a borough and £150 to an agent in a county division. The current opinion in the House was very strong. The particular proposal made in another place is that there should be the power in the candidate to give an absolutely unlimited fee—any fee he likes—to his agent. He can give him £1,000. It would really be very absurd, and a curious contra-diction, after what we have done, to cut down the likely expenses of an election to something like 50 per cent. of what they were, and, considering what all of us for many years have been desirous of keeping these expenses to, if we actually put into the Bill the power to give an unlimited figure to the election agent, It would really be a piece of absurdity, and an act of contradiction which, I am quite certain, this House would be the last to assent to. If this stood alone, if we had either to agree to or disagree with this Amendment of the House of Lords, I am quite certain that we should almost unanimously disagree. After all, however, we are here to consider

    1997
    a middle course. Generally, I agree with every word of the speech to which we have just listened from the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Dumfries Burghs (Mr. Gulland). He has had a very large experience of elections and election agents. So have I think my experience of election agents is very much as his. It is quite true there are good, bad, and indifferent agents; and it does make an enormous difference, not only to the candidate, but to the constituencies, as to whether or not you have a good election agent. The conduct of the election is largely in the hands of the agent. Whether it would be a dirty or a clean election depends very largely on what the agent tries to make it. The issues can be put clearly or in a very confused way. There may be a good many practices bordering on the improper, or it may be a very clean election, according as the election agent really shapes it. You do not secure an ordinary business man if you do not pay him a decent salary, according to the market. For my own part I believe that there is not enough money in the scale laid down for the conduct of elections out of which you can put aside a sum of money adequate to remunerate an agent for the trouble, anxiety, and risk he runs in the conduct of an election. I do not agree with the hon. Member who sits for Westhoughton. I do not think £200 can be saved out of the election expenses allowed.
    Mr. WILSON: Last election I was £1,000 under the maximum.
    Mr. FISHER: The hon. Gentleman's experience is a little different from that which any of us have had. At all events, I am confident of this—and I think he will agree—that it is not possible to save £200 out of the present scale—not even £100. I have worked out the figures in detail. What I calculate in respect of printing, extra postage—after allowing for the one postage—committee rooms, public meetings, etc., makes it that, to my mind, it would be difficult under the present scale to save anything with which to reward the agent. We are going to have a somewhat different electorate to deal with—an electorate singularly ignorant of electioneering matters. I am quite sure the House will agree with me when I say that if we only get a very low poll, if we only get 60 per cent. or 70 per cent. of the electorate, that this Bill will have been, certainly to that extent, a failure. I am quite certain of this: unless you have enough money to conduct your election
    1998
    adequately in a given space of time, you will not. your issues clearly and properly before the electors. After all, it is a very serious matter that of electing the. Government of the country. We may, however, be inclined to cut down expenses too much. I quite agree that it ought to be possible for a man of small means to get into this House, but we can go too far in that direction, and not leave sufficient money to place the issues clearly before the electors, and get an important decision as to the issues represented by the various candidates. For my part, I think the advice that has been given by my right hon. Friend opposite is right, and that it would be far better to disagree with the Lords Amendments in the form they are sent to us and accept the form in which my hon. Friend has moved his Amendment, which enables a candidate in a borough to spend £50 more, and £75 more in a county, in addition to the scale allowed.
    Supposing you allow nothing outside the scale beyond what is paid to the election agent. Supposing there is going to be a very close contest and the agent feels that he must spend up to the limit in order that his side may win. Every keen observer would do that even at the risk of leaving nothing for himself. The agent might go to the candidate and say, "You really must have some more meetings, or you really must answer that circular and spend that £50 which, in estimating your expenditure, was put aside for me. That is my fee. I will give it up, because it will be of the greatest value; and I feel bound to say that, unless you spend that £50, you will probably be beaten." What position does that leave the candidate in? Let us suppose that that candidate was returned by a narrow majority, very likely owing to the expenditure of that last £50, which may turn the election in a close contest, and that is quite a probable case. In those circumstances, what is a rich man tempted to do? Simply to evade the Act, and there are hundreds of ways to do it. He can recompense the agent for the £50 which he has surrendered. Now I want to obviate that temptation and make it possible for the agent to receive a fee of a moderate amount from the candidate, and I do not want to see the rich man spending up to the maximum and then finding other ways of satisfying the agent who might be put into possession of something after the election which may make it worth his while to surrender his

    1999
    £50. I think we should steer a middle course, and for my part I hope the advice given by my hon. Friend behind me and the right hon. Gentleman opposite will be acceptable to the House. I think, while disagreeing with the Lords Amendment, we should also agree that a moderate fee not exceeding £50 in a borough, £75 in a county, may be legitimately put into the scale allowed to any candidate.
    Mr. HEALY: The right hon. Gentleman said he waited to receive some direction from the House generally. My observation is that no less than three hon. Members opposite applauded this proposal, but all that counts for nothing when a right hon. Gentleman on the Front Bench gets up and suggests a certain course.
    Mr. FISHER: The Motion was made by my hon. Friend behind me and supported by the right hon. Gentleman opposite, and that is the proposal I am asking the House to adopt.
    Mr. HEALY: Neither the Front Treasury Bench nor the Front Opposition Bench, as a rule, voice the opinions of the House. We have not heard the voice of the House, but the voice of the election agent speaking through the Government Bench and front Opposition Bench gramophone This is a. matter in which election agents are greatly interested, for they see their expenses are being put down. They are in contact with the party machine on both sides, and the Members of this House who speak here and there are in contact with the live wires, so to speak, and are sensible to the currents which are passing across the floor of the House. This Amendment has been discussed upon a false basis. This is an attempt indirectly to raise the scale of election expenses, and nothing else. I have been appalled by the description of English elections which the right hon. Gentleman has given. What is involved? A matter of £50 in a borough and £75 in a county, and we are solemnly told that the fate of the Empire may depend upon the spending of those additional sums of money.
    I take a wholly different view of the common sense of the average English elector, and I do not believe that such a state of things exists in English constituencies. I believe that election agents rather exaggerate the great services which they render. The circulars sent out at the last moment to do such terrible
    2000
    execution, in my judgment, are not so efficacious as the right hon. Gentleman supposes. I do not suppose that the expenditure of £50, whether it is spent properly or improperly, will affect an election very much either in an English borough or county, and I do not think that that is what is at the bottom of this Amendment. We are being subjected indirectly to the pressure of election agents. I do not want to underpay election agents and I do not think the amounts mentioned are at all excessive, and I cannot imagine any competent professional man undertaking to do such work for anything less. That, however, is not the question. Nobody wants to underpay election agents. The question is whether the scale of expenses mentioned here is sufficient to conduct an election. We are told that by some strange mathematical mistake the Speaker's Conference has come to this curious result, and have under-estimated the scale of expenditure by £50 in boroughs and £75 in counties. It is preposterous. There is no foundation for the suggestion. There is enough in this scale to pay an election agent decently, and to fight an election as it ought to be fought. I hope that in this matter the House will not yield. If is the third time we have had it before us. We had it up in Committee, when we had the same conflict between the two Front Benches. One Front Bench agreed to it, and then the other grasped at the olive branch which had been held out. In my judgment, that is not the House, and that is not the view of Members generally. I do not believe that it is a good thing to spend on elections as much as this Act allows. We are told that you cannot put the issues before the electors without this increase, but what fudge it is to suggest that £50 will make all the difference between putting those issues properly or improperly before the electors! This Amendment merely represents the alarm of individual election agents. The Bill, perhaps, naturally leads to that state of alarm, but that is not a thing to which this House should yield. I know that the hon. Member (Sir G. Younger) denies that he had any hand in suggesting this Amendment to the House of Lords. I am bound to accept his assurance, but it does strike me as a remarkable instance of thought transference. If he did not suggest it, perhaps those Amendments came from the same source.
    Sir G. YOUNGERindicated dissent.
    3.0 P.M.
    Mr. HEALY: We all know that the hon. Member is an entirely honourable gentleman, but he is in contact with the great electoral machine of one English party, and is very active as an assistant to his party in that direction. Everybody respects him for it, but he is being used here simply as the speaking trumpet of the election agent, and that is the objection which I have to this Amendment. If there is one subject more than another in which we ought not to tolerate the interference of the other House in our proceedings it is this question of election expenses. It is a most intimate domestic matter of our own. The Peers have nothing to do with it. They are not the people to consider it, and they ought not to be the people to decide it. The Speaker's Conference met to consider this matter and decided it. This House has decided it on two occasions. Is it to be said after that merely on the suggestion of the House of Lords that we are all to admit that the whole of the Members of the House of Commons are wrong on this question which concerns them alone, and that we must take our light and guidance from the House of Lords? I hope that there is sufficient independence in the House of Commons to resist this Amendment and to defeat it.
    Mr. CARADOC REES: This is not a question whether £50 in boroughs or £75 in counties is adequate remuneration for an election agent. If the matter ought to be dealt with, it is quite clear that the amount per head allowed for the election ought to be increased. I object to the form of it. If a man does not pay his £50 in a borough or £75 in a county, and does not have an election agent, then he cannot spend the money. It ought to be in the total lump sum, or not in at all. This way of doing it, practically saying that you must have an election agent, and that if you do not you will have £50 less in a borough or £75 less in a county is wrong. If it ought to be done at all, it ought to be done by increasing the grant per head of elector instead of increasing the scale. This method of doing it is not likely to lead to any good result, and for that reason I intend to divide against it.
    Sir R. HERMON-HODGE: What would happen in the case of an uncontested election?
    Question put, "That those words be there inserted in the Lords Amendment."
    The House divided: Ayes, 96; Noes, 30.

    Division No. 152.]

    AYES.

    [3.3 p.m.

    Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. Christopher

    Guest, Capt. Hen. Fred. E. (Dorset, E.)

    Partington, Hon. Oswald

    Age-Gardner, Sir James Tynte

    Harris, Sir Henry P. (Paddington, S.)

    Pearce, Sir William (Limehouse)

    Ainsworth, Sir John Stirling

    Henry, Sir Charles

    Pennefather, De Fonblanque

    Allen, Arthur A. (Dumbartonshire)

    Hermon-Hodge, Sir R. T.

    Peto, Basil Edward

    Baldwin, Stanley

    Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield)

    Pratt, J. W.

    Barnett, Capt. R. W.

    Howard, Hon. Geoffrey

    Price, Sir Robert J. (Norfolk, E.)

    Barnston, Major Harry

    Hughes, Spencer Leigh

    Pryce-Jones, Colonel E.

    Barran, Sir John N. (Hawick Burghs)

    Hunter, Major Sir Charles Rodk.

    Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough)

    Beale, Sir William Phipson

    Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East)

    Rees, Sir J. D. (Nottingham, E.)

    Beauchamp, Sir Edward

    Jones, William Kennedy (Hornsey)

    Samuels, Arthur W.

    Bellaire, Commander C. W.

    Jones, William S. Glyn- (Stepney)

    Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland)

    Bean, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth)

    Kenyon, Barnet

    Sanders, Col. Robert Arthur

    Bird, Alfred

    Kerr-Smiley, Major Peter Kerr

    Soames, Arthur Wellesley

    Blair, Reginald

    Law, Rt. Hon. A. Bonar (Bootle)

    Spicer, Rt. Hon. Sir Albert

    Boland, John Pius

    Lloyd, George Butler (Shrewsbury)

    Stirling, Lieut.-Col. Archibald

    Boyton, Sir James.

    Locker-Lampson, G. (Salisbury)

    Talbot, Rt. Hon. Lord Edmund

    Bridgeman, William Clive

    Loyd, Archie Kirkman

    Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton)

    Cater, John

    Lynch, Arthur Alfred

    Tickler, T. G.

    Cautley, Henry Strother

    M'Callum, Sir John M.

    Walsh, Stephen (Lancs., Ince)

    Cave, Rt. Hon. Sir George

    Macdonald, Rt. Hon. J. M. (Falk. B'ghs)

    Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)

    Coates, Major Sir Edward Feetham

    McGhee, Richard

    Whiteley, Sir H. J.

    Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

    Macleod, John Mackintosh

    Wiles, Rt. Hon. Thomas

    Cowan, Sir William Henry

    Macpherson, Jamas Ian

    Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarthen)

    Craig, Ernest (Cheshire, Crewe)

    Magnus, Sir Philip

    Williams, Col. Sir Robert (Dorset. W.)

    Dalrymple, Hon. H. H.

    Malcolm, Ian

    Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Worcs, N.)

    Dickinson, Rt. Hon. Sir Willoughby H

    Marks, Sir George Croydon

    Wolmer, Viscount

    Duke, Rt. Hon. Henry Edward

    Morgan, George Hay

    Wood, Rt. Hon. T. McKinnon (Glasgow)

    Fell, Sir Arthur

    Morison, Thomas B. (Inverness)

    Worthington Evans, Major Sir L.

    Fisher, Rt. Hon. W. Hayes (Fulham)

    Munro, Rt. Hon. Robert

    Yate, Colonel Charles Edward

    Galbraith, Samuel

    Newman, Major John R. P.

    Young, William (Perthshire, East)

    Gibbs, Col. George Abraham

    Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield)

    Greig, Colonel James William

    Nuttall, Harry

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Sir G.

    Griffith, Rt. Hon. Sir Ellis J.

    Palmer, Godfrey Mark

    Younger and Mr. Gulland.

    NOES.

    Anderson, W. C.

    Chancellor, Henry George

    Dougherty, Rt. Hon. Sir J. B.

    Baker, Joseph Allen (Finsbury, E.)

    Davies, David (Montgomery Co.)

    Gilbert, J. D.

    Bowerman, Rt. Hon. C. W.

    Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Lough)

    Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose)

    Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West)

    Outhwaite, R. L.

    White, J. Dundas (Glasgow, Tradeston)

    Healy, Maurice (Cork)

    Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central)

    Whitehouse, John Howard

    Hinds, John

    Rees, G. C. (Carnarvonshire, Arfon)

    Williams, Aneurin (Durham, M.W.)

    Jacobsen, Thomas Owen

    Richardson, Albion (Peckham)

    Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

    Jardine, Sir John (Roxburgh)

    Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven)

    Yeo, Sir Alfred William

    John, Edward Thomas

    Robinson, Sidney

    Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade)

    Smallwood, Edward

    TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr.

    Marten, Sir John Henry

    Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton)

    Watt and Major Bowden.

    Lords Amendment considered, and agreed to.

    Lords Amendments:
    Leave out the words "county election" ["in the case of a county election, to sevenpence"], and insert instead thereof the words "election for a county constituency or a division of a county returning one member."—Disagreed with.
    After the word "borough" ["in the case of an election for a borough, to fivepence"], insert the words "constituency returning one or two members or a division of the borough returning one member."—Disagreed with.
    After the word "register" ["fivepence for each elector on the register"], insert the words "In the case of an election for a county, or a division of a county, returning three or more members, to fourpence for each elector on the register. In the case of an election for a borough, or a group of boroughs, or a division of a borough, returning three or four members, to threepence for each elector on the register."—Disagreed with.
    After the Fourth Schedule, insert as a new Schedule:

  FIFTH SCHEDULE.

    PROVISIONS AS TO UNIVERSITY ELECTIONS.
    [For details of Schedule, see Lords Amendments to Representation of the People Bill. [Bill 127], pp. 26–41.]
    Sir G. CAVE: There are two or three Amendments I have to move to this Schedule. One is on page 31, dealing with the form of voting paper, after the words "indicated below," to insert a Form with two columns, one column headed "Candidates" and another headed "Order of Preference." Then on page 38 it will he necessary to add to the footnote, after the word "transferable" the words "or alternative," and again on page 40, in the footnote, it will be necessary to make the same Amendment.
    Sir P. MAGNUS: I should like to say a few words on this new Fifth Schedule.
    Mr. SPEAKER: Does the hon. Member desire to amend the Schedule?
    Sir P. MAGNUS: I want to call attention to one paragraph.
    Mr. SPEAKER: Do you want to amend it?
    Sir P. MAGNUS: Yes.

    NEW FIFTH SCHEDULE.
    Par. 11. An elector may vote at a poll by the delivery of a voting paper (signed by the voter at any time subsequent to the nomination) in the form appended to this part of this Schedule or in a form to the same effect and accompanied with a like declaration, or, if the returning officer gives special directions to that effect, in person, and may so vote at any polling place if he has not been allotted to any polling place, or, if he has been so allotted, at any polling place to which he has been so allotted.
    The returning officer may, if he thinks fit, give a special directon that voting in person is to be allowed at the election, and, if a direction is so given, may, if he thinks fit, limit the days of poll on which votes in person are to be received in pursuance of the direction.
    Sir P. MAGNUS: I beg to move, in paragraph 11, after the word "vote" ["an elector may vote at a poll"], to insert the words "personally or."
    I also wish to move later the omission of the second paragraph of paragraph 11. So far as my knowledge goes, hitherto every university elector has had the opportunity of voting personally or voting by voting paper, and it has not been at the discretion of the returning officer whether he should or should not be allowed to vote personally. Therefore I would suggest the insertion of these words. I have never yet heard that it was part of the duties or privileges of a returning officer to give or to withhold permission to an elector to vote personally if he so desires. There is also the restriction on the days on which the poll might be held for electors who desire to vote personally.
    Sir HENRY HARRIS: I beg to second the Amendment to the Lords Amendment.
    Sir G. CAVE: As regards the principle of the Amendment I see no objection, but I should have thought he did not want these words "personally or," because if in the fourth line we strike out the words "if the returning officer gives special directions to that effect," that is enough.
    Amendment to the Lords Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
    Amendments made to the Lords Amendment:
    Leave out the words "if the returning officer gives special directions to that effect."
    Leave out the words, "The returning officer may, if he thinks fit, give a special direction that voting in person is to be allowed at the election, and, if a direction is so given, may, if he thinks fit, limit the days of poll on which votes in person are to be received in pursuance of the direction."—[Sir P. Magnus.]
    Form of Voting Paper.
    I, A.B. (here give the electors name in full, with his university degree and college, if any), give my vote as indicated below:

    PART III.—.UNIVERSITIES.

    Description of University Constituency.

    Number of Members.

    England and Wales—

    The University of Oxford

    2

    The University of Cambridge

    2

    The University of London

    1

    The University of Durham, the Victoria University of Manchester, the University of Wales, the University of Liverpool, the University of Leeds, the University of Sheffield, the University of Birmingham, and the University of Bristol

    2

    Scotland—

    The University of Edinburgh, the University of St. Andrews, the University of Glasgow, and the University of Aberdeen

    3

    Sir ELLIS GRIFFITH: I beg to move, in the Fifth Schedule, Part III., after the word "London" ["The University of London"], to insert the words "The University of Wales."
    Amendment to Lords Amendment: made:
    In paragraph 32, after the word "below" ["give my vote as indicated below"] insert the words "Candidates A., B., C., D. (order of preference)."

  FORM A.

    UNIVERSITY OF (Name of University) VOTING PAPER.
    *This total, will require modification where the trausferable vote is not used at the election.
    Amendment to Lords Amendment. made:
    In the footnote to Form A, after the word "transferable," insert the words "or alternative."

  FORM C.
  UNIVERSITY OF (Name of University) VOTING PAPER.
  FORM C.

    INCAPACITATED ELECTOR.
    *This form will require modification where the transferable vote is not used at the election.
    Amendment to Lords Amendment made:
    In the footnote to Form C, after the word "transferable," insert the words "or alternative.''—[Sir G. Cave.]
    Lords Amendment:
    Leave out Fifth Schedule (Redistribution of Seals).—Disagreed with.

    REDISTRIBUTION OF SEATS.
    I am not quite sure whether anything is going to be restored instead of this Schedule, but in any event I think this: will be in order.
    Mr. SAMUEL: Have we not now restored the Fifth Schedule?
    Sir G. CAVE: The Lords having carried an Amendment to leave out the Fifth Schedule, we have now restored it.
    Sir E. GRIFFITH: When the Bill went from this House to another place, the University of Wales was one of a group of eight universities which returned two members. We had a discussion here about two o'clock in the morning, in a very small House which took a hostile view to the claim that the University of Wales should have one member to itself. However, in the House of Lords the Government spokesman, Lord Peel, not only did not demur, but accepted this proposal that the University of Wales should have one member for itself. When the House of Lords and the Government of the day and the Principality of Wales are all agreed upon a matter of this kind, I think the Home Secretary might very well assent to this being done. Under the scheme of membership now Scotland stands in a very favourable position, England comes next, and Wales last—that is to say, we have to have a greater electorate for each member than either Scotland or England. Ireland is -exceptionally favoured in all these matters at all times.
    Mr. HEALY: It is not favoured in this matter.
    Sir E. GRIFFITH: I am sorry I mentioned Ireland. It always leads one into difficulties. This is a matter that the Home Secretary can very well treat with sympathy. We are entitled to one more member, and I think the House of Lords and the Government's spokesman in the House of Lords have fixed on a very useful and reasonable way of giving us that extra member. We do appeal to the Home Secretary, and to the House, to show some indulgence in this matter.
    Mr. SAMUEL: How many electors would there be?
    Sir E. GRIFFITH: It depends entirely when the first election takes place. The Ion. and gallant Member for Montgomery (Major D. Davies) is an authority on this matter, and he says that there are between 3,000 and 4,000, and they are increasing year by year; but I do not put the case upon the number of the present graduates.
    Sir J. D. REES: I think it becomes anyone who has been associated with public
    2008
    life in Wales in any capacity to support a Motion of this sort. The number of electors may be smaller than in England or Scotland, but there is no part of the United Kingdom, and probably no place in the world, where there is more burning ardour for education than in Wales. Hon. Members may remember some twelve years ago, when eloquent speeches were made by an hon. Member of this House as to the manner in which youths in Wales were anxious to scale the educational ladder which was to lead them from the lower rungs to the topmost rungs. It really is the case that throughout Wales—and I have been associated with the north, the south, and the centre—there is an ardour for education which I have not seen in any other part of the world, and which entitles them to some special indulgence on this occasion. Some of us who have enjoyed, if we did enjoy, the advantages, if they are advantages, of a public school education, if it is an education, may take a somewhat prejudiced view of this question. But I maintain that there is a totally different attitude towards education in Wales from that which prevails in England. It is, perhaps, not so different in Scotland, but, as compared with this country, it is an attitude of contrast. The numbers of electors will increase, and the individuality of the Welshman is such that he is entitled to special consideration. I take some merit to myself for putting forward this argument, because when I was associated with Wales it was always said in my old constituency that I was no better than an Englishman. Therefore, I feel that some little weight might on that account be attached to my advocacy. Regretting very much the circumstances which brought about my severance from the Principality, for which I have the feelings of the keenest and warmest affection, I have thought it not inappropriate to venture these few remarks in support of this appeal.
    Sir P. MAGNUS: I wish to say a few words in support, and I do so as the representative of another university. I know something about Wales, and I agree to a very large extent with what the hon. Member (Sir J. D. Rees) has said as to the keen enthusiasm in Wales for education. It became my duty not very long ago to visit Wales and to report upon the system of education in one of the towns in which a university college exists. and I was impressed by the general desire

    2009
    for further education by the Welsh people. Wales differs essentially from any one of the cities with which it has been grouped with a view to their returning two members to Parliament. The University of Wales consists of three separate colleges in three principal towns. It is at present a small university with no very large number of graduates, but I am sure that the number will considerably increase and will entitle them to a representative of the university. I feel certain that if the University of Wales sends a member to this House he will be very serviceable in discussion and by the knowledge which he would bring to bear upon special problems dealing with Welsh education. I would also point out that under the new Education Bill the number of pupils from secondary schools who will receive a university education is likely to be considerably increased. I think there are exceptional circumstances which justify Wales not as a provincial university, but as a National university in asking for separate representation, and I have great pleasure in supporting the Amendment.
    Mr. LLEWELYN WILLIAMS: The late Home Secretary (Mr. H. Samuel) asked in rather ominous tones what the number of electors would be. I am not quite certain of the present number. It is true it is a small number, but there are other considerations which I think ought to weigh with the House when they come to consider the question of the representation of the -University of Wales. The charter of the university was only given in 1894 or 1895. Therefore, the first graduate only took his degree about 1897 or 1898, twenty or twenty-one years ago, and it is unfair to say that because this university has. only been in existence for twenty or twenty-one years that you are to rule it out for twenty, thirty, or more years from university representation. I do not suppose there will be any Redistribution Bill for many years to come before this House. Therefore, for a generation the University of Wales would be ruled out, because for reasons over which to a certain extent they had no control the Welsh people were not afforded the boon of a university until twenty or twenty-one years ago. Another consideration is this: the number of graduates is less to-day in proportion in the University of Wales than in other universities, because every graduate of the University of Wales is of military age. Therefore there has been a greater proportion of men who have
    2010
    fallen in the field from the University of Wales than from any other university. You have no old men who are graduates. of the University of Wales.
    Why is it that Wales, with its passion for education, did not get a university before? Scotland got her universities in the fourteenth or fifteenth centuries, and Trinity College, Dublin, was founded two centuries ago. Why did not Wales get her university earlier? When the great Welsh leader, Owen Glendower, became Prince of Wales in 1405 he proposed the setting up of a Welsh university. It was not the fault of the Welsh people, but because the rebellion of this great Welsh patriot failed. Had the rebellion of Robert Bruce not succeeded, had the Battle of Bannockburn not ended in a victory for Scottish arms, Scotland would have been denied her great system of education as Wales was for centuries. In spite of the fact that there was no university in Wales in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries, her literature shows that Wales was one of the most learned and cultured countries in Europe at that time. That was because there were more monasteries in Wales than in any other part of the country in proportion to its population. These monasteries were great scholastic institutions in which the monks copied. Welsh manuscripts, kept alive the flame of Welsh learning, and did the work of the universities. When the Reformation came the monasteries were destroyed. Not one tenth of the endowments of the monasteries went to the cause of education. They were devoted not only to secular but to personal uses, and Wales was therefore bereft of what was at that time tantamount to a university. Tithe from Wales is now taken for the support of English scholastic institutions to-day, not in one case but in a dozen cases. The great proud colleges of Oxford and Cambridge are not above taking tithe of the produce of the labour of the peasants of Wales.
    If it had been proved that £20 a year tithe was taken from the bogs of Kildare for fie purposes of Trinity College, Cambridge, and that not a single penny had ever been provided by Trinity College, Cambridge, for the education of any Irish scholar, what invective we should have had from these benches. It would have been another grievance to Ireland. Not a single penny has ever come from Scotland toward English educational institutions. Wales alone has been despoiled by this

    2011
    rich, powerful country in order to help the sons of rich men in England at the expense of the sons of poor people in Wales. Therefore, in the centuries after Wales was bereft of the means of raising a system of education she was degraded from being, as she was at the beginning of the Tudor period, a learned and cultured country, into an uneducated country, and that continued for some centuries, but, through the efforts of the community, the people themselves have raised a structure of education which is one of the marvels of the last generation. No Parliament helped them; no rich men came to their aid, and the common people, out of their own poor resources, started this great system of education which culminated twenty years ago in the institution of this Welsh University. Therefore, we Welsh people look upon the Welsh University in a very different way even from the way in which English people regard Oxford and Cambridge. This is a monument of -the effort of generations of Welshmen. It is a democratic university. It is the most democratic university in its constitution and its tradition. It is true that it has not a large tradition yet, but it is making tradition day by day. Of five principals of the colleges three are the sons of Nonconformist ministers, racy of and sprung from the soil. A fourth, who is still the honoured head of the oldest university college, was the son of a village policeman, and one of the greatest teachers that the university has had, a man who is recognised as one of the greatest philosophers in Europe, started his life as a shoemaker. 'That is the sort of record which this university has, and will have as the years go on.
    My right hon. Friend need not be afraid that the numbers of electors will go down. We have already in the course of thirty years built a hundred intermediate schools from which mainly the university draws its students. There are at present from 17,000 to 18,000 students, all sons of poor men, in the intermediate schools, without counting the old grammar schools. All this has been done in one generation. Therefore, we may be perfectly certain that as the years go on—the number of scholars in the intermediate schools has been increased even during the War—the reservoir will be larger year by year and the number of electors will increase. I hope that it is not going to be said that -one of the Leaders of the Liberal party is more hostile to Wales than is the House
    2012
    of Lords. I cannot believe that that was the intention of my right hon. Friend. On the grounds of sentiment and of reparation for past wrong, and on the ground that this is a growing university in which the number of electors is going up and must go up year after year, the case is overwhelming. You cannot reopen this question five years hence. We shall have probably 5,000 electors ill ten years. There is no guarantee that. the question can be reopened then. You have to decide it now, and it may be for this generation. I do not think that Welsh Members will appeal in vain to the generosity of this great Assembly which has never shown any lack of it when a case has been made out for a little country in doing what it can to benefit it. Therefore I ask the Government to listen not merely to the claim of reason, but to the acknowledgment of that claim in the House of Lords by Lord Peel, and not to show that they speak with one voice in one House and another voice in another House.
    Sir G. CAVE: This is in some respects a difficult question. The proposal to give a member to the university of Wales involves the addition of another member to the existing number of Members of Parliament. That is on the threshold a. very serious matter. The second observation which occurs to me to make is that the number of electors in the proposed constituency is small. The number is. think, Something like 2,500 to-day. No doubt it is a growing figure, but at the moment it is substantially lower than that of any other of the universities to which separate representation has been given. Those are substantial prints to be borne in mind, but there are considerations on the other side. In the first place, it has been made out, and I think accurately, that by the accidental operation of the basis of representation adopted under the Instructions of this House, Wales, with regard to its population, comes off a little less well than other parts of Great Britain. There was no intention to do that, but when you have a figure such as 70,000 taken there must be margins here and there. In Wales the margin is, on the average, larger than elsewhere. The result is that if you took the proportion of population per member you would give to Wales probably one more member than under the Schedule as it stands. Then there is this further consideration which, in fairness, we must bear in mind: The House has been exceedingly generous

    2013
    in regard to representation of universities. It is a somewhat remarkable fact that, in a House where a good many Members have expressed some objection to university representation in theory, there has been general agreement to add to such representation. We have added two members for English universities, and by another Bill two members are to be added for Irish universities. It is obvious that if the House has been generous to Ireland, which already by common consent is greatly over-represented, there is some reason why we should be not less generous to Wales, which, on the whole, is under-represented in the sense to which I have referred. In view of the arguments which have been used, and in view also of the fact that we all agree that in Wales education has been pursued with a zeal and thoroughness which has made that country noteworthy in that respect—I do not admit for a moment that the quality of education in Wales has any advantage over the quality of education in the English universities, but there is no doubt that intermediate education in Wales was taken up earlier than in other parts of the Kingdom—there is some reason why we should give special representation to the centre of Welsh education, the University of Wales.
    I will not follow the hon. and learned Gentleman who spoke last into his references to the tithe question. It is a very dangerous subject to raise in this House, and if we refresh our memories a little we shall remember that a few years ago it was a somewhat controversial question. Therefore let us not talk about it. I have mentioned the considerations which appeal to me. There is another which has no principle behind it, but which is of practical value. On many occasions during the discussion of the Schedule to the Bill it was the duty of the Government to resist proposals for increasing the number of members of this House, and one of the reasons I put forward was that if we gave way in this respect we should have to give way in other cases. But now the position is somewhat altered. We are reaching the last stage of the Bill, and if we are so generous as to do what is asked there will be no one to take advantage of that generosity, and to seek to be treated in the same way. Of course, this matter can only be agreed to with general consent of the Members of the House, but I am bound to say that personally, I feel considerable sympathy with it, and would be very glad to see this Amendment accepted.
    Mr. H. SAMUEL: This is one of tile unusual cases in which the last comer is best served. Because we are at the tail end of the Bill a concession here is not likely to serve as a precedent for other cases, and the Home Secretary finds it possible to relax the stern attitude he has adopted in other cases. At the same time, I cannot refrain from expressing my personal regret that it should be found necessary to increase again the number of university seats. I quite understand, and sympathise with, the desire of Wales that her university should receive recognition by university representation. The struggle in Wales for the establishment of a high system of national education commands, and has long commanded. universal admiration throughout the whole of the United Kingdom. Nothing could be more praiseworthy than the way in which the people of Wales, endowed comparatively with less wealth than some other parts of the United Kingdom, have succeeded in building up a magnificent system of educational institutions, and it is not surprising that they should desire that their efforts should be crowned by securing in this House a representative for their univerity, which is the culminating point of their educational system. My only objection is to the fact that it is proposed to effect this legitimate object by increasing the number of university seats instead of by redistributing them. We have sacrificed entirely the principle of one vote one value, we have now 2,500 Welsh graduates who are to have equal power with 24,000 electors who constitute the average constituency. Each Welsh graduate will have ten times as much electoral power as each British citizen, and that is quite indefensible on the arithmetical basis on which we have hitherto proceeded.
    On the other hand, it is only fair to recognise that if we take national units—if they are to be of equal value—then Wales is at present rather worse off than other portions of the Kingdom, and that should be set against the considerations on the other side. The increase in the number of university representatives is even worse than the Home Secretary has stated. Not only have we dealt out additional seats to England and Ireland—not only are we now proposing to add one for Wales, but Scotland also has had her share increased. At the present day and for many a long year there have been nine university representatives in

    2015
    this House. Many of us all our political lives have advocated their abolition, and our efforts are to be crowned by seeing that nine increased to sixteen. We consented with the greatest reluctance to the increase proposed by the Speaker's Conference. As part of a compromise, we agreed that three university seats should be added—two more for England and one more for Scotland. That was done, and then by the amazing outcome of the Conference on Irish Redistribution the House is asked to add two more university seats for Ireland. Whenever the Nationalists and the Unionists come together and agree it is usually in order to arrive at some result at the cost of the rest of the country, and that has been the case here, when we find our university representation in this House increased by two more with very small electorates. Queen's University, Belfast, I think has only 2,800 graduates, and the National University, Dublin, 3,600. The House enacted that, and passed the Bill without a Division, my voice, I believe, being the only one raised in protest. But having done that to Ireland, I do think it would be exceedingly difficult to say to Wales that her university should be put at a disadvantage compared with these Irish universities. For my part, therefore, I should not think of asking the House to divide against this proposal. At the same time I think some expression should be given to the feeling, which is widespread among Members, that this increase of university representation is, in our view, undemocratic and wrong in principle. I believe that the extent to which it has been carried by this Bill, by what the Home Secretary has called the generosity of the House, will lead to a reaction, and that university representation having been pushed to far in the possibly more democratic days we are approaching, it may at no very distant date be swept away altogether.
    Mr. CHANCELLOR:I only want to say that the grant of this member to the Welsh University will give to 2,500 Welshmen the same weight in the councils of the nation as is given to 118,000 population outside Wales.
    Amendment agreed to.
    Further Amendment made: Leave out the words "University of Wales" ["Victoria University of Manchester, the University of Wales, the University of Liverpool."]
    Mr. MUNRO: I beg to move to leave out the words "the University of Edinburgh."
    4.0 P.M.
    The purpose of this Amendment and the next, which is consequential, is to revise the order in which the names of these four universities at present appear in the Schedule. The purpose of the alteration is that they should appear according to the foundation of the university—that is to say, the oldest university. that of St. Andrews, should be first, then Glasgow, then Aberdeen, and then Edinburgh. It has been represented to me that that is the proper order, and the order in which in previous Acts of Parliament. these universities have been referred to. In these circumstances I desire to move this Amendment.
    Amendment agreed to.
    Further Amendment made: Leave out the words "and the University of Aberdeen," and insert instead thereof the words "the University of Aberdeen and the University of Edinburgh."—[Mr. Munro.]

  SIXTH SCHEDULE.

    Returning Officers for Scottish Constituencies Situated in More than One Sheriffdom.
    Lords Amendment:
    Leave out the Sixth Schedule.—Disagreed with.

  SEVENTH SCHEDULE.

    Adaptation of Acts.
    4. The registration officer shall be substituted for the overseers in Sections eleven and twelve of the Parliamentary and Municipal Registration Act, 1878, and in any other enactment dealing with the duties of the overseers in connection with the registration of electors; and in Sections thirty-nine and sixty-nine of the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Prevention Act, 1883, "registration officer" means the registration officer under this Act.
    5. In order to provide for election and voting in any university constituencies constituted under this Act where the election and voting in the constituency are not regulated under existing Acts, the Local Government Board shall apply thereto such provisions of any existing Acts relating to elections and voting at any university constituency in Great. Britain as appear to the Board expedient

    2017
    for the purpose, with such modifications as seem necessary.
    6. Sub-section (4) of Section forty of the Local Government Act, 1888 (which makes the number of county councillors and the boundaries of the county electoral divisions in London depend on the number of Members for Parliamentary boroughs and the boundaries of Parliamentary boroughs and divisions in London), shall have effect as if the words "for the time being" were substituted for the words "at the passing of this Act," and, in order to meet any difficulty (consequent on the change of boundaries under this provision) in filling casual vacancies by election in the London County Council, any such casual vacancy shall, until the first election of the whole number of councillors which takes place after the passing of this Act, be filled by means of the choice by the Council of a person to fill the vacancy, and the councillor so chosen shall hold office in such manner and in all respects as if he had been elected to fill the vacancy.
    7. Sections eleven and thirteen of the Parliamentary and Municipal Registration Act, 1878, shall be adapted so as to be applicable to parishes situated in any constituency or in any local government area, and for that purpose "constituency" shall be substituted in that Section for "Parliamentary borough," "local government area" for "municipal borough," and "registered as a local government elector" for "enrolled as a burgess."
    Special Adaptation of Acts for Scotland.
    9. The Representation of the People (Scotland) Act, 1832 (2 & 3 Will. 4. c. 65):
    Section thirty-eight shall apply as if this Act were mentioned therein as well as the Act therein mentioned.
    Section eleven shall apply as if this Act were mentioned therein as well as the Act therein mentioned.
    The County Electors (Scotland) Act, 1853 (16 & 17 Viet. c. 28):
    In Section five the expression "hereinafter provided" shall be deemed to include the provisions of this Act.
    In Section six the words "the registration officer before the first day of February or the first day of August as the case may be
    2018
    in any year" shall be substituted for the words "the sheriff at the Registration Court of the county," and the words "and the registration officer" shall be substituted for the words "and the sheriff."
    The County Voters Registration (Scotland) Act, 1861 (24 25 Vict. c. 83):
    Section forty-three shall apply with the substitution of the registration officer for the sheriff, and of the words "when he next compiles the register" for the words "in. his Registration Court."
    The Ballot Act, 1872 (35 & 36 Vict. c. 33):
    For Rule 58, of Part I., of the First Schedule there shall be substituted the following rule:
    In Scotland the place of election shall be a convenient room situated in such place as the Secretary for Scotland may by order from time to time determine.
    In Rule 60 of Part I. of the First Schedule a reference to Division (4) of Part I. of the Fifth Schedule to this Act shall be substituted for the reference to the Schedules in that rule mentioned.
    The Local Government (Scotland) Act, 1889 (52 & 53 Viet. c. 50):
    In Section six, the words "in the Representation of the People Act, 1917," shall be substituted for the word "hereinafter."
    Lords Amendments:
    In paragraph 4; after the word "thirty-nine" ["Sections thirty-nine and sixty-nine"], insert the word "sixty-eight."—Agreed to.
    Leave out paragraph 5.—Agreed to.
    Leave out paragraph 6.—Disagreed with.
    In paragraph 7, after the word "eleven" ["Sections eleven and thirteen"], insert the words "and thirteen and (so far as necessary) Section twelve."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "that Section" ["substituted in that Section"], and insert instead thereof the words "those Sections."—Agreed to.
    In paragraph 9, leave out the words "Section eleven shall apply" down to the words "in this Registration Court," inclusive.—Agreed to.
    Leave out "The Ballot Act, 1872 (35 & 36 Vict. c. 33),—For Rule 58, of Part 1, of the First Schedule there shall be substituted the following rule:"
    Mr. MUNRO: I beg to move, as an Amendment to the Lords Amendment, to leave out "The Ballot Act, 1872 (35 & 36 Vict. c. 33)."
    The purpose of this Amendment is to leave standing the title—"The Ballot Act, 1872 (35 & 36 Vict. c. 33)."
    Lords Amendment:
    Leave out the words "In Scotland the place of election shall be a convenient room situated in such place as the Secretary for Scotland may by order from time to time determine. In Rule 60, of Part I. of the First Schedule, a reference to Division (4) of Part I. of the Fifth Schedule to this Act shall be substituted for the reference to the Schedules in that rule mentioned," and insert instead thereof the. words "The Corrupt and Illegal Practices Prevention Act, 1883 (46 & 47 Vict. c. 51):
    In Section sixty-eight, in the definition of "revising barrister" for the word "sheriff" shall be substituted the words "registration officer."
    Mr. MUNRO: I beg to move, as an Amendment to the Lords Amendment,

    EIGHTH SCHEDULE.—ENACTMENTS REPEALED.

    Session and Chapter.11

    Title or Short Title.

    Extent of Repeal.

    20 Geo. 3. c. 17.

    The Parliamentary Elections Act, 1780.

    The whole Act so far as unrepealed.

    2 & 3 Will. 4. c. 45.

    The Representation of the People Act, 1832.

    The whole Act (except sections sixty-four, sixty-six, sixty-eight, seventy, seventy-one, seventy-six and seventy-seven, and the definition of "returning officer" in section seventy-nine; the words "barrister, overseer," in section seventy-six wherever they occur.

    2 & 3 Will. 4. c. 65.

    The Representation of the People (Scotland) Act, 1832.

    Sections two to four, six to thirteen; section twenty-seven from "Provided always" to the end of the section; section twenty-eight; section thirty-five; section thirty-seven; section forty; section forty-two, and the schedules so far as unrepealed.

    before the word "The" ["The Corrupt and Illegal Practices Prevention Act"], to insert the words "In Rule 60 of Part I. of the First Schedule, a reference to Division (4) of Part I. of the Fifth Schedule of this Act shall be substituted for the reference to the Schedule in that Rule mentioned."
    Amendment to the Lords Amendment agreed to.
    Lords Amendment:
    After the word "hereinafter" ["shall be substituted for the word 'hereinafter' "], insert,
    "The Elections (Scotland) (Corrupt and Illegal Practices) Act, 1890 (53 and 54 Vict. c. 55):
    In Section twenty-nine the words registration officer' shall be substituted for 'revising authority,' and at the end of Sub-section (1) of the said Section the following words shall be added, 'and shall make out a list (which may be referred to as the corrupt and illegal practices list) containing the name and description of every person whose name has been so omitted, and shall state in that list the offence of which each such person has been convicted or found guilty.' "—Agreed to.

    Session and Chapter.

    Title or Short Title.

    Extent of Repeal.

    16 & 17 Vict. c. 28.

    The County Elections (Scotland) Act, 1853.

    In section six the words "not being a freeholder and."

    16 & 17 Vict. c. 58.

    The Dublin Parliamentary Revising Act, 1853.

    The whole Act so far as unrepealed.

    19 & 20 Vict. c. 58.

    The Burgh Voters Registration (Scotland) Act, 1856.

    The whole Act so far as unrepealed except sections one, eight, fifteen, and forty-eight.

    24 & 25 Vict. c. 60.

    The Representation of the People (Ireland) Act, 1861.

    The whole Act.

    24 & 25 Vict. c. 83.

    The County Voters Registration (Scotland) Act, 1861.

    Section four to "thereof"; sections seven, eight, ten, and twenty-two.

    30 & 31 Vict. c. 102.

    The Representation of the People Act, 1867.

    The whole Act (except sections one, two, seven, thirty - four, thirty - seven, forty-one to forty-five, forty-nine to fifty-two, fifty-seven, fifty-nine, and sixty-one); section thirty-four from "and shall name" to "places not so named," and from "where any parish" to "division of the borough into polling districts."

    31 & 32 Vict. 11 c. 48.

    The Representation of the People (Scotland) Act, 1868.

    Sections three to six, sections nine to fourteen, sections sixteen to twenty, sections twenty - two, twenty - four, twenty-six, forty-two, forty-five, forty- seven to fifty, fifty-three, fifty-five, fifty-six, and in section fifty-nine the definition of "premises," and Schedules A., B., C., D., and I.

    31 & 32 Vict. c. 58.

    The Parliamentary Electors Registration Act, 1868.

    The whole Act (except sections one, two, three, twenty-one, and sections twenty-three so far as it relates to returning officers).

    35 & 36 Vict. c. 33

    The Ballot Act, 1872

    Subsection five of section sixteen, subsection (4) of section seventeen, sections eighteen and nineteen, section twenty-five from "or where" to "employment" and from "or so retained" to end, and section thirty-three from "and shall continue in force" to the end of the section.

    Session and Chapter.

    Title or Short Title.

    Extent of Repeal.

    41 & 42 Vict. c. 26.

    The Parliamentary and Municipal Registration Act, 1878.

    The whole Act so far as unrepealed, except sections one, two, and eleven to fourteen.

    43 & 44 Vict. c. 6.

    The House Occupiers in Counties Disqualification Removal (Scotland) Act, 1880.

    The whole Act.

    45 & 46 Vict. c. 50.

    Tire Municipal Corporations Act, 1882.

    Section nine; sections thirty-two and thirty-three; subsection (3) of section forty-two; section forty-four; paragraphs (1) to (7) of section forty-five; sections forty-six to forty-nine, sixty-three, seventy-one, and seventy-six, subsections (1) and (3) of section two hundred and nine, section two hundred and forty-four, Part I. of the Third Schedule, in rule four of Part II. of the Third Schedule, the words "or" entered in the separate non-resident "list required by this Act to be made," Part IV. of the Third Schedule, rule one of Part II. of the Fifth Schedule so far as respects expenses incurred in relation to the enrolment of burgesses, Form A in Part I. of the Eighth Schedule from "and I hereby declare" to the end, and Forms C to G in Part II. of the Eighth Schedule.

    46 & 47 Vict c. 51.

    The Corrupt. and Illegal Practices Prevention Act, 1883.

    Subsection (2) of section thirty-two; paragraph (c) of subsection (1) of section thirty-three; subsections (3) to (8) of section thirty-nine; the definitions of "registration officer" in sections sixty-four and sixty-eight; subsection (12) of section sixty-eight: subsection (4) of section sixty-nine from "in the manner" to the end of the subsection; paragraph (1) of Part II. of the First Schedule; in paragraphs (1) and (2) of Part IV. of the First Schedule the words "and sums paid to the returning officer for his charges"; in the "Form of Return of Election Expenses" in Part. I. of the Second Schedule the first paragraph under the heading "Expenditure."

    48 & 49 Vict. c. 15.

    The Registration Act, 1885

    The whole Act so far as unrepealed (except sections thirteen, sixteen, nineteen, and twenty); the definitions of "ownership voter," "fifty pounds rental voter," and "occupation voter" in section nineteen.

    Session and Chapter.

    Title or Short Title.

    Extent of Repeal.

    48 & 49 Vict. c. 16.

    The Registration Amendment (Scotland) Act, 1885.

    Section three, except so far as it relates to the valuation roll, sections four and five, sections seven, eight, ten, thirteen to fifteen, and seventeen.

    43 & 49 Vict. c. 17.

    The Parliamentary Registration (Ireland) Act, 1885.

    Sections two to six, eight, in section nine, subsections (1) and (2), and the words from "the register of voters" to the end of the section, sections thirteen, fifteen, seventeen to thirty.

    48 & 49 Vict, c. 23.

    The Redistribution of Seats Act, 1885.

    The whole Act so far as unrepealed, except sections one, and sixteen, and (as respects Ireland) subsections (1) and (2) of section thirteen.

    51 & 52 Vict. c. 41.

    The Local Government Act, 1838.

    Paragraph (xii) of section three, from "the places of" to the end of the paragraph; subsection (6) of section thirty-four from "the places of" to the end of the subsection. Proviso twelve, in section seventy-five, and sections seventy-six and seventy-seven. In paragraph (6), of section eighty-three, the words "registration of parliamentary voters or to the"; the words "or to any registration matters," and the word "registration" where it lastly occurs; in subsection (2), of section ninety-two, the word "occupation" and the words "of making out and revising the lists" of voters, of conducting any "parliamentary election"; subsection (3) of section ninety-two.

    8 Ed w. 7. c. 35.

    The Polling Districts and Registration of Voters (Ireland) Act, 1908.

    Section three.

    Lords Amendments: After paragraph Session and Chapter 20 Geo. 3, c. 17, insert,

    "25 Geo. 3, c. 84

    The Parliamentary Elections Act. 1785

    The whole Act so far as unrepealed.

    33 Geo. 3, c. 64

    The Parliamentary Elections Act, 1793

    The whole Act."

    —Agreed to.
    In paragraph 2 and 3 Will. 4, c. 45,, to the end of the "Sections," leave out the words "sixty-four, sixty-eight," and insert instead thereof the words "sixty-six, seventy, and seventy-six."—Agreed to.
    In paragraph 2 and 3 Will. 4, c. 65, leave deputy town clerks being entitled to out the words "from 'Provided always'
    2026
    to the end of the Section."—Agreed to.
    In the same paragraph, after the word "five," insert the words "Section thirty-six, so far as relating to town clerks or deputy town clerks being entitled to vote."—Agreed to.
    In paragraph 16 and 17 Vict., c. 28, leave out the words "In section six the words 'not being a freehold and,' "and

    After paragraph 16 and 17 Vict. c. 58, insert,

    "16 & 17 Vict. c. 68

    The Parliamentary Elections Act, 1853

    In section one the words "for the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge and" the words "to the Vice-Chancellors of the said Universities and" and the words Vice-Chancellors and"; sections four and five."

    —Agreed to.
    In paragraph 19 and 20 Vict., c. 58, leave out the words "except sections

    After paragraph 20 and 21 Vict., c. 68, insert,

    "24 & 25 Vict. c. 53

    The University Elections Act, 1861

    The whole Act so far as unrepealed."

    —Agreed to.
    In paragraph 24 and 25 Vict., c. 83, leave out the words "section four to 'thereof'; sections seven, eight, ten, and twenty-two," and insert instead thereof the words "The whole Act so far as unrepealed."—Agreed to.
    In paragraph 30 and 31 Vict., c. 102, leave out the words "thirty-four," and the words "forty-one to forty-five."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words from "sixty-one" to the end of the paragraph, and insert instead thereof the words "and Schedule H; in section fifty-nine from 'and in construing' to the end of the Section."—Agreed to.
    In paragraph 31 and 32 Vict., c. 48, leave out the word "nine" ["section

    "31 & 32 Vict. c. 65

    The University Elections Act, 1868

    The whole Act."

    —Agreed to.
    In paragraph 35 and 36 Vict., c. 33, at the beginning of third column, insert the words "section five, section eight from 'all expenses' to 'by law payable' and (except as respects Scotland and Ireland) from 'where the sheriff' to the end of the Section."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the word "employment," and insert instead thereof the words "is proved on such trial to have voted at such election."—Agreed to.

    "44 & 45 Vict. o. 30

    The Universities Elections Amendment(Scotland) Act, 1881

    The whole Act."

    —Agreed to.

    Sir G. CAVE: I beg to move, after the paragraph 38 and 39 Vict., c. 84, to insert,

    "39 & 40 Vict, c. 61.

    The Divided Parishes and Poor Law Amendment Act, 1876

    Section 14."

    Amendment agreed to.
    insert instead thereof the words "sections two, three, five, six, and seven."—Agreed to.
    one, eight fifteen, and forty-eight."— Agreed to.
    nine"], and insert instead thereof the word "eight."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "twenty sections," and insert instead thereof the words "eighteen, Regulations 1, 3, 4, and 5 in section nineteen, and section twenty."—Disagreed with.
    After the words "twenty-six," insert the words "thirty-seven to."—Agreed to.
    At the end of the paragraph, leave out "D."—Disagreed with.
    In paragraph 31 and 32 Vict., c. 58, leave out the words "twenty-one, and section twenty-three so far as it relates to returning officers," and insert instead thereof the words "and twenty-one."— Agreed to.
    After paragraph 31 and 32 Vict., c. 58, insert,
    At the end of same paragraph, add the words "Rules 3 and 58 in the First Schedule."—Agreed to.
    In paragraph 41 and 42 Vict., c. 26, leave out the words "and eleven to," and insert instead thereof the words "eleven, twelve, thirteen, and."—Agreed to.
    After paragraph 43 and 44 Vict., c. 6, insert,
    Lords Amendments:
    In paragraph 45 and 46 Vict., c. 50, leave out the words "sections thirty-two and thirty-three" and insert instead thereof the words "in sub-section (2) of section eleven the words from 'or (b) being entitled,' to 'to be made,' and the words 'In either of those cases,' section thirty-two, section thirty-three."—Agreed to.
    After the word "forty-nine," insert the words "in sub-section (2) of section fifty-one the words 'or vote in more than one ward'; sections "—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "Form A in Part I. of the Eighth Schedule from 'and I hereby declare' to the end."—Agreed to.
    In paragraph 46 and 47 Vict., c. 51, leave out "sub-sections (3) to (8)," and insert instead thereof "sub-section (1) of section thirty-five, from 'and may charge' to the end of the sub-section, sub-section (3)."—Agreed to.
    After the word "thirty-nine," insert the words "section forty-seven."—Agreed to.
    After the word "sub-section" ["end of the sub-section"], insert the words "sub section (9) of section sixty-nine, paragraph 7 of Part I. of the First Schedule."—Agreed to.
    Leave out "in paragraphs (1) and (2) of Part IV. of the First Schedule the words "and sums paid to the returning officer for his charges."—Agreed to.

    "50 & 51 Vict. c. 55

    The Sheriff's Act, 1887

    Sub-section (2) of section eighteen, so far as respects sheriffs' courts required for the purpose of elections."

    —Agreed to.
    In paragraph 51 and 52 Vict., c. 41, at beginning of third column, insert "Paragraph (b) of sub-section (2) of section two from 'or is registered' to the end of the paragraph."—Agreed to.

    After paragraph 52 and 53 Vict., c. 50, insert,

    "53 & 54 Vict. c. 55

    The Elections (Scotland) (Corrupt and Illegal Practires) Act, 1890

    In section one the definition of "revising authority"; sub-section (3) of section seventeen and sub-sections (7) and (8) of section twenty-nine."

    —Agreed to.

    After paragraph 3 Edw. 7, c 34, insert,

    "8 Edw. 7. c. 14

    The Polling Arrangements (Parliamentary Boroughs) Act, 1908

    The whole Act."

    —Agreed to.
    In paragraph 48 and 49 Vict., c. 15, leave out the word "thirteen" ["section thirteen."—Agreed to.
    In paragraph 48 and 49 Vict., c. 16, leave out the word "eight," and insert instead thereof the word "to."—Agreed to.
    In paragraph 48 and 49 Vict., c. 16, leave out the words "to fifteen," and insert instead thereof the word "fourteen."—Disagreed with.
    In paragraph 48 and 49 Vict., c. 17, leave out the words "eight, in section nine sub-sections (1) and (2), and the words from the register of voters' to the end of the section, sections," and insert instead thereof the word "nine."—Agreed to.
    At the end, insert the words "and the Second Schedule."—Agreed to.
    In paragraph 48 and 49 Vict., c. 23, leave out the words "The whole Act so far as unrepealed, except sections one and sixteen, and (as respects Ireland) subsections (1) and (2) of sections thirteen," and insert instead thereof the words, "As respects England and Scotland the whole Act so far as unrepealed, and as respects Ireland, sub-sections (3) and (4) of section eight, sections ten to twelve, subsections (3), (4), and (5) of section thirteen, sections fourteen, fifteen, eighteen, and twenty, and in section twenty-six the words from with the following' to the end of the section."—Agreed to.
    After the paragraph 49 and 50 Vict., c. 58, insert,
    Leave out the words "from the places of' to the end of the paragraph."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "from 'the places of' to the end of the sub-section."—Agreed to.
    Lords Amendment:
    In paragraph 8 Edw. 7, c. 35, leave out the words "section 3," and insert instead thereof the words "the whole Act."—Agreed to.
    Lords Amendment:
    After the Eighth Schedule insert, as a new Schedule, "Ninth Schedule—Redistribution of Seats."—Disagreed with.
    Committee appointed to draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing with certain of their Amendments.
    Committee nominated of Sir George Cave, Sir Willoughby Dickinson, Mr. Hayes Fisher, Mr. Herbert Samuel, and Mr. Scanlan.
    Three to be the quorum.—[Sir G. Cave. ]
    To withdraw immediately.
    Reasons for disagreeing to certain of the Lords Amendments subsequently reported, and agreed to.
    To be communicated to the Lords.—[Sir G. Cave.]

  NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE BILL.
  Lords Amendments considered.
  NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE BILL.

    CLAUSE 2.—(Women's Equalisation Fund.)
    (2) There shall in each year be charged on the Women's Equalisation Fund and distributed among approved societies in manner provided by a scheme to be made by the National Health Insurance Joint Committee, with the approval of the Treasury, such sum not exceeding eight shillings in respect of each of the total number (calculated in the prescribed manner) of married women who are members of approved societies as may be ascertained in accordance with the said scheme.
    (3) Subject as hereinafter provided, there shall in respect of each year be carried to the Women's Equalisation Fund out of moneys provided by Parliament such sum as will suffice to meet the charges thereon:
    Provided that the sum to be carried to the Fund in respect of each of the years nineteen hundred and thirteen, nineteen hundred and fourteen, nineteen hundred and fifteen, and nineteen hundred and sixteen, shall, instead of being provided as aforesaid, be provided out of the
    2032
    moneys voted by Parliament before the commencement of this Act in aid of the provision of sickness benefit for women, and in so far as the moneys so voted are insufficient to meet the aggregate charges on the fund in respect of those four years shall be provided out of the moneys retained by the Insurance Commissioners under Sub-section (3) of Section fifty-five of the principal Act towards discharging their liabilities to approved societies in respect of reserve values.
    Lords Amendments:
    In Sub-section (2), after the word "societies" ["who are members of approved societies"], insert the words "and who are employed contributors."—Agreed to.
    In Sub-section (3), leave out the words "retained by the Insurance Commissioners under Sub-section (3) of Section fifty-five of the Principal Act" and insert instead thereof the word "applicable"—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "their liabilities" ["discharging their liabilities to approved societies"] and insert, instead thereof the words "the liabilities of the Insurance Commissioners."—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 3.—(Contingencies Funds and Valuation.)
    (1) The Insurance Commissioners shall periodically apportion amongst the several societies the sums by this Act directed be carried to the Contingencies Fund in the case of men in proportion to the number of contributions credited in respect of the members of those societies respectively who are men, and the sums by this Act directed to be carried to the Contingencies Fund in the case of women in proportion to the number of contributions credited in respect of the members of those societies respectively who are women, and the sums so apportioned to any society shall, with the proper proportion of the accumulations of interest on the amount from time to time standing to the credit of the Fund, form the Contingencies Fund of the society, and be available for meeting any deficiency of the society or of the branches thereof in manner hereinafter appearing, and no part of any surplus of any society or branch disclosed on a valuation shall be applied in meeting any deficiency in any other society or branch.
    (6) If in the case of a society consisting of persons entitled to rights in a superannuation or other provident fund established for the benefit of persons employed by one or more persons the employer is responsible for the solvency of the fund, he shall not, in the event of a deficiency being disclosed on a valuation of the society, be required to make good the deficiency except in so far as the Contingencies Fund of the society is insufficient for the purpose, but save as aforesaid nothing in the provisions of this Section shall affect any obligation in relation to such a society undertaken by the employer whereby he becomes responsible for the solvency of the fund or for the benefits payable there out, or liable to pay a substantial part of or to make contributions towards or substantially to supplement the benefits payable out of the fund.
    (7) The powers conferred by the proviso to Sub-section (1) of Section sixteen of the National Insurance Act, 1913, may, subject to the consideration by the National Health Insurance Joint Committee of any representations made by the governing body of the society, be exercised within six months after the passing of this Act in like manner as they are authorised to be exercised within six months after the passing of that Act, so, however, that any separation of funds required to be made in consequence of the exercise of the said powers under this Section shall not take effect until after the first valuation, and shall be carried out in such manner as the Committee may direct; and where, on a representation made within six months after the passing of the first-mentioned Act, the National Health Insurance Joint Committee have exercised in respect of a. society the powers conferred on them by that proviso, they may, on a representation being made within six months after the passing of this Act by the society, reverse their decision, if they are satisfied in manner provided by that proviso that the members of the society resident in the part of the United Kingdom affected desire the decision to be reversed, and that the governing body of the society assent thereto.
    Lords Amendments:
    In Sub-section (1), leave out the word "meeting" ["available for meeting any deficiency"] and insert instead thereof the words "making good."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "in meeting" ["shall be applied in meeting"], and insert instead thereof the words "towards making good."—Agreed to.
    In Sub-section (6), after the word "fund" ["solvency of the fund, he shall not"], insert the words "or for the benefits payable thereout."—Agreed to.
    After the word "deficiency" ["make good the deficiency except"] insert the words "or to make up to their full amount the benefits payable out of the fund."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "contributions towards" ["or to make contributions towards"], and insert instead thereof the words. "substantial contributions to."—Agreed to.
    In Sub-section (7), leave out the word "representations" ["Committee of any representations made"], and insert instead thereof the word "submission."—Agreed to.
    After the word "exercised" ["be exercised within six months"] insert the words "on representations made."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "by the society" ["after the passing of this Act by the society"].—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 7.—(Qualifications for Becoming, and Rate of Contribution Payable by, Voluntary Contributors, 1 and 2 Geo. 5, c. 55.)
    (1) The persons not employed within the meaning of Part I. of the principal Act, who are entitled to be or become voluntary contributors under Part I of the principal Act, shall, instead of being the persons specified in Sub-section (3) of Section one of that Act, be the following persons, that is to say:—
    (c) All persons who were insured as voluntary contributors on the fifth day of November nineteen hundred and seventeen, and have since that date continued to be insured persons.
    Lords Amendments:
    In Sub-section (1), paragraph (c), leave out the words "fifth day of November", and insert instead thereof the words "first day of January."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "seventeen and have," and insert instead thereof the words "eighteen, or who having at any

    2035
    previous time been insured as voluntary contributors ceased to be so insured by reason of becoming employed contributors and were insured persons at that date, and have in either case."—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 10.—(Rate of Employer's Contribution in Case of Employé, Holding Certificate of Exemption.)
    (1) The rate of contribution payable by an employer under Sub-section (4) of Section four of the principal Act shall in every case be a sum of threepence per week instead of the amount mentioned in that Sub-section.
    Lords Amendments:
    Leave out the words "be a sum", and insert instead thereof the words "except where the person employed is a master, seaman, or apprentice to the sea service or the sea fishing service, serving on a foreign-going ship, or a ship engaged in regular trade on foreign stations, be at the rate."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "the amount mentioned in", and insert instead thereof the words "at the rate payable under the provisions of."—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 12.—(Amendments with Respect to Sickness Benefit.)
    (2) Where an insured person who claims to be entitled to sickness or disablement benefit fails to give notice of the disease or disablement within three days from the commencement thereof, benefit shall in his case, subject as hereinafter provided, commence only on the day following the date on which the notice is given, or, if the disease or disablement is under the provisions of Sub-section (5) of Section eight of the principal Act deemed to be a continuation of a previous disease or disablement, on the day next but one before that date:
    Provided that if the insured person proves to the society or committee administering the benefit or, on appeal, to the Insurance Commissioners, that in the circumstances of the case he was not reasonably able to give notice either before the date on which it was in fact given, or before some earlier date being a date more than three days after the commencement of the incapacity, he shall be entitled to benefit as from the third day of incapacity or, in the case of a
    2036
    disease or disablement which is deemed as aforesaid to be a continuation of a previous disease or disablement, as from the commencement of the incapacity, so, however, that where the insured person only proves inability to give notice before some date earlier than the date on which notice was in fact given he shall not be entitled to benefit for the period commencing on that earlier date and ending on the date of the notice.
    Lords Amendments:
    Leave out the words "or on appeal to the Insurance Commissioners," and insert instead thereof the words "are satisfied, or if in the case of a dispute it is decided in manner provided by the principal Act."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "as from the third day of", and insert instead thereof the words "commencing on the fourth day of the".—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 13.—(Position of Insured Persons Ceasing to be Employed or to Pay Contributions as Voluntary Contributors.)
    (1) Where an insured person, being a member of an approved society, ceases to be employed within the meaning of Part I. of the principal Act, he shall, for a period of twelve months next after the end of the week in which he ceased to be so employed, for all purposes remain an insured person, and shall, until the termination of the year in which he ceases to be an insured person be entitled to receive medical benefit and sanatorium benefit as if he had continued to be an insured person.
    (2) Where any person who has been insured as an employed contributor for less than one hundred and four weeks, or in respect of whom less than one hundred and four weekly contributions have been paid, ceases to be employed within the meaning of Part I. of the principal Act, he shall, if he proves to the approved society of which he is a member, or on appeal to the Insurance Commissioners, that he is unemployed owing either to -incapacity for work of which notice has been given within the prescribed time or inability to obtain employment, he entitled, within the prescribed time, to pay contributions in respect of the period during which he is unemployed.
    (3) A voluntary contributor being a member of an approved society shall

    2037
    remain for all purposes an insured person for a period of twelve months next after the end of the week in respect of which the last contribution paid by him as a voluntary contributor was paid, and shall, until the termination of the year in which he ceases to be an insured person, be entitled to receive medical benefit and sanatorium benefit as if he had continued to be an insured person.
    (6) This section shall apply to any person who ceased to be an insured person on any date less than twelve months before the commencement of this Act as if this Act had been in force on that date, so, however, that such a person shall not, by virtue of this Section, be treated as having been entitled to any benefits during any period before the commencement of this Act.
    Lords Amendment:
    In Sub-section (1), after the word "person" ["an insured person"], insert the words "and a member of an approved society."—Agreed to.
    Lords Amendment:
    At end of Sub-section (1), insert a new proviso—
    "Provided that where any such person ceases to be employed as aforesaid by reason of entering on some prescribed class of occupation in connection with the war, not being employment within the meaning of Part I. of the principal Act (in this Section referred to as 'war occupation'), or by reason of being interned in an enemy country as a prisoner of war or otherwise, he shall, subject to such conditions with respect to payment of contributions and otherwise as may be prescribed, remain an insured person until two months after the termination of the war occupation or internment, as the case may be, or until the expiration of twelve months from the date on which he ceased to be employed as aforesaid, whichever date is the later."
    Mr. SPEAKER: In regard to this Amendment, I desire to call the attention of the House to the fact that this is an extension of the rights granted under the Bill as sent up to the other place, and that it is therefore a privileged Amendment. The effect of it, as far as I understand it, is to restore to the particular parties concerned the rights which they had under the original Act. Therefore,
    2038
    there is no increase of existing rights, although there is an increase of rights upon those which were given to the parties concerned by the Bill as it passed this House. Perhaps the House will think it desirable on this occasion to waive their privilege, and to make a special entry.
    Sir E. CORNWALL: I beg to move that we waive our privilege.
    Mr. SPEAKER: That is not necessary. If you move to agree with the Lords a special entry will be made.
    In Sub-section (2), leave out the words "any person who has been insured as."—A greed to.
    Leave out the words "for less than one hundred and four weeks or."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "on appeal to the Insurance Commissioners," and insert instead thereof the words "if in the case of a dispute it is decided in manner provided by the principal Act."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "of which notice has been given within the prescribed time," and insert instead thereof the words "due to some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement."—Agreed to.
    At the end of Sub-section (3), insert the words "and a member of an approved society."—Agreed to.
    In Sub-section (6), leave out the words "This Section shall apply to any person who ceased to be an insured person on any date less than twelve months before the commencement of this Act as if this Act had been in force on that date," and insert instead thereof the words "Where any person having been insured as an employed contributor at any time within twelve months before the date of the commencement of this Act ceased to be employed within the meaning of Part I. of the principal Act before that date, or where any person having been insured as an employed contributor at any time since the thirty-first day of July, nineteen hundred and fourteen, ceased before the commencement of this Act to be employed within the meaning of Part I. of the principal Act by reason of entering on war occupation or by reason of being interned as aforesaid, this Act shall apply to him as though it had been in force on the date when he so ceased to be employed."—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 14.—(Membership of Approved Societies.)
    (1) Subject to the provisions of this Act, every member of an approved society shall be entitled, on giving the prescribed notice and on complying with the prescribed conditions, to terminate his membership of the society and become a member of another society or a deposit contributor:
    Provided that—
    (a) No person shall be entitled to terminate his membership except as at the prescribed times, and the prescribed times shall be so fixed as to give opportunities for terminating membership at intervals not greater than six months;
    (5) Any person being a member of an approved society to whom a certificate of exemption is granted under Section two of the. principal Act, or who ceases to be an insured person, shall upon the grant of the certificate or on so ceasing, as the case may be, cease to be a member of the society:
    Provided that if any person within one year after so ceasing to be a member of a society becomes an employed contributor, he shall on making an application for the purpose within the prescribed time be entitled to be re-admitted as a member of the society, and the society shall readmit him accordingly.
    This Sub-section shall apply to any person to whom such a certificate has been granted or who has ceased to be an insured person before the commencement of this Act as if the certificate had been granted or he had ceased to be an insured person on the date of the commencement of this Act.
    (6) If any approved society, to whom or to whose duly appointed agent being a person receiving applications for admission to the society any person delivers an application in proper form for admission to the society, does not within a period of three months after the date on which the application is so delivered deliver or send by post to that person a notification that his application has been rejected, that person shall be deemed as on the date of delivery of the application to have been admitted a member of the society.
    Lords Amendments:
    In sub-section (1, a), leave out the words "six months", and insert instead thereof the words "twenty-seven weeks."—Agreed to.
    In Sub-section (5), leave out the words "or who has ceased to be an insured person before", and insert instead thereof the words "before or who having previously been insured is not an insured person at the date of."—Agreed to.
    In Sub-section (6), after the word "person" ["any person delivers"], insert the words "not being a member of any approved society."—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 18.—(Arrears of Contributions.)
    (2) For the purpose of any regulations made under this Section, any person who is not employed within the meaning of Part I. of the principal Act for at least the prescribed period in each of two consecutive years, and who for a substantial part of the remainder of each such year is unemployed, otherwise than by reason of incapacity for work, of which notice has been given within the prescribed time, or inability to obtain employment within the meaning of Part I. of the principal Act, shall be deemed to be a voluntary contributor.
    Lords Amendment:
    In Sub-section (2), leave out the words "remainder of each such year is unemployed, otherwise than by reason of incapacity for work," and insert instead thereof the words "period during which he was not so employed in each such year was not so employed for some reason other than incapacity for work due to some specific disease or bodily or mental disablement."—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 19.—(Amendment of s. 11 of Principal Act.)
    (2) Where an insured person has recovered compensation in respect of any injury or disease, and in fixing the amount of the weekly payment regard was had to any such payment, allowance, or benefit as is mentioned in paragraph (3) of the First Schedule to the Workmen's Compensation Act, 1906, or where an insured person who is entitled to recover but has not recovered any such compensation is in receipt of any such payment, allowance, or benefit as aforesaid, the weekly

    2041
    value of that payment, allowance, or benefit, as determined by the society or committee, shall in computing under Subsection (1) of the said Section eleven what part of the benefit is to be paid to the insured person, be added to the weekly sum payable by way of compensation or be treated as being a weekly sum payable by way of compensation, as the case may be, and taken into account accordingly:
    Provided that no account shall be taken of any such payment, allowance or benefit so far as the weekly value thereof, together with the weekly sum (if any) payable by way of compensation, exceeds the amount of the weekly payment to which the insured person is entitled by way of compensation under the said Act.
    Lords Amendments:
    In Sub-section (2), after the word "to" ["entitled to recover"], insert the words receive or."—Agreed to.
    After the word "not" ["has not recovered"] insert the words "received or."—Agreed to.
    After the word "Committee" insert the words "or in the case of a dispute as determined in manner provided by the principal Act."—Agreed to.
    After the word "any" ["together with the weekly sum (if any)"] insert instead thereof the words "or the weekly value of the lump sum (if any) paid or."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "is entitled", and insert the words "would, if there had been no such payment, allowance or benefit, have been entitled to receive or recover."—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 20.—(Amendment of Law with Respect; to Contributors who are Inmates of Hospitals, etc.
    (1) The following Sub-section shall be substituted for Sub-section (2) of Section twelve of the principal Act:—
    "(2) During such period as aforesaid the sum which would otherwise have been payable on acount of any such benefit to or in respect of any such person as aforesaid—
    "(a) If that person has any dependants, may be applied at the discretion of the society or committee administering the benefit, but after consultation whenever possible with that person, wholly or in part for the advantage of, or be paid wholly or in part to, those dependants; and
    Provided that—
    "(ii) Where any person who is entitled to any benefit under this Part of this Act applies for admission to any workhouse infirmary, admission thereto shall not be ref used solely on the grounds of the right to that benefit."
    In paragraph (b, ii), after the word "infirmary," insert the words "or in Scotland to any poorhouse, hospital, or the sick ward of any poorhouse."—Agreed to.

    22.—(Special Provisions with Respect to Married Women.)
    Lords Amendment:
    Leave out Clause 22 and insert

    NEW CLAUSE.—(Special Provisions with Respect to Married Women.)
    (1) Where a woman being an insured person and a member of an approved society marries, she snail, it sue had before the date of her marriage ceased, or if at any time within twelve months after the date of her marriage she ceases to be a person whose normal occupation is employment, cease as from that time (hereinafter referred to as "the date of unemployment") to be entitled to the benefits to which she would otherwise have been entitled under the provisions of the principal Act, and in lieu thereof she shall, subject to the provisions of that Act, be entitled to the following benefits, that is to say, to sickness benefit at the rate of five shillings a week for not more than six weeks in the period of twelve months commencing next after the date of unemployment, or if the date of the unemployment was anterior to the date of her marriage, within so much of that period as is subsequent to her marriage, to maternity benefit of thirty shillings in respect of her first confinement after the date of unemployment and within two years of the date of her marriage, and to medical and sanatorium benefits until the termination of the year next following the year in which she ceased to be such a person as aforesaid, and she shall until the expiration of two years from the date of her marriage remain an insured person.
    (2) For the purposes of this Section a woman shall be deemed to have ceased

    2043
    to be a person whose normal occupation is employment as soon as she has been unemployed for eight consecutive weeks commencing next after the week in which she ceased to be employed:
    Provided that a woman, who is or was unemployed by reason of incapacity for work in respect of which she has received, or but for any disentitling provisions of the principal Act would have received, sickness or disablement benefit, shall not be deemed to have ceased to be a person whose normal occupation is employment until the expiration of eight weeks commencing next after the end of the last week in which she was or would have been, as aforesaid, in receipt of such benefit.
    (3) If a woman, after becoming entitled to benefits by virtue of the preceding provisions of this Section, becomes employed before she ceases to be an insured person, she shall be treated as if she had become insured for the first time on the date on which she so becomes employed:
    Provided that no woman shall, by reason only of so becoming employed, be deprived of any benefit to which she would, but for the provisions of this Sub-section, have been entitled unless and until she becomes entitled to corresponding benefit by virtue of her new insurance.
    (4) No married woman shall, during her coverture, be entitled to be a voluntary contributor, and any woman who is, at the commencement of this Act, a voluntary contributor under the terms of Subsection (2) of Section forty-four of the principal Act, shall cease to be such a contributor and an insured person and to be entitled to the benefit mentioned in that Sub-section, and in lieu thereof shall be entitled to receive by way of benefit payment of a sum of forty shillings:
    Provided that—

    (a) nothing in this provision shall prevent a married woman who has been employed for at least the prescribed number of weeks in any period being deemed to be a voluntary contributor for the purpose of any regulations made under this Act with respect to the benefits of persons in arrears; and

    (b) where any woman who is a voluntary contributor under the terms of the said Sub-section (2) is, at the commencement of this Act, in re-
    2044
    ceipt of sickness or disablement benefit, she shall continue to be entitled to sickness or disablement benefit so long as the incapacity continues, and the said sum of forty shillings shall become payable only on the expiration of a period of eight weeks commencing next after the date when the incapacity ceases.

    (5) Where any woman, being an insured person and a member of an approved society, marries, the prescribed sum shall be transferred from the credit of the society to the credit of the Reserve Suspense Fund, and all moneys which are, at the commencement of this Act, standing to the credit of the Married Women's Suspense Account, mentioned in Section forty-four of the principal Act, shall be carried to the credit of the Reserve Suspense Fund, and the said account shall be closed.
    (6) Where any woman, being an insured person and a member of an approved society, marries, and after her marriage continues to be or becomes an employed contributor, the appropriate reserve value shall be credited to the society in respect of her as if she were a person joining the society.
    (7) The Insurance Commissioners may make regulations providing for such financial adjustments between approved societies and the Reserve Suspense Fund as appear necessary in order to place the societies and the fund respectively in the position in which they would have been if the two last preceding Sub-sections of this Section had come into force on the commencement of the principal Act instead of on the commencement of this Act.
    (8) Where any married woman is, at the commencement of this Act, entitled to have any sum applied for her benefit under the terms of the proviso to Subsection (2) of Section forty-four of the principal Act, and that sum or any part thereof remains unexpended on the first day of January nineteen hundred and nineteen, that sum or the unexpended part thereof shall, instead of being applied as aforesaid, be paid to her in cash on that date, and she shall as on that date cease to be an insured person:
    Provided that if any cash payment so required to be made is not made before the first day of January nineteen hundred and twenty, an amount equal to the sum

    2045
    to he paid shall be transferred from the credit of the society to the Reserve Suspense Fund.
    (9) In the ease of any woman, being a voluntary contributor, who marries, this Section shall apply as though the date of her marriage were the date of unemployment.
    (10) Subject as aforesaid, the provisions of Part I. of the principal Act shall apply to a woman who has been married, both during and after her coverture, as if she had never been married.
    (11) In the application of this Section to Ireland for the words "for not more than six weeks in the period of twelve months commencing next after the date of unemployment," there shall be substituted the words "for not more than eight weeks in the period between the date of unemployment and the date of the completion of the second year of marriage."
    (12) It shall be the duty of every woman, being an insured person and a member of an approved society, who marries, to give notice of her marriage to her society within eight weeks thereof, and if an approved society pays to any married woman who has failed to give notice in accordance with the foregoing provision any sum by way of sickness benefit in excess of the amount properly payable to that married woman, the society shall, if it was not aware of her marriage, be entitled to deduct the amount so paid in excess from the amount of any benefits subsequently payable to her.
    (13) In this Section the expression "employment" means employment within the meaning of Part I. of the principal Act, and the expression "employed" and "unemployment" shall be construed accordingly.
    Mr. SPEAKER: This is a Clause which again raises a question of privilege. It alters the benefits which can be paid under the fund, and converts benefits that were payable on matrimony into sick benefit as well as maternity benefit. Strictly speaking, it is a privilege Amendment, but if the House chooses to waive its privilege in this case, it is open to do so.
    Sir E. CORNWALL: I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

    CLAUSE 24.— (Amendment of s. 46 of Principal Act.)
    (3) For the purposes of Sub-section (2) of Section sixteen and of Sub-section (1) of Section seventeen of the principal Act a seaman, marine, or soldier, to whom Section forty-six of the principal Act applies shall be deemed to be an insured person:
    Provided that such sum as may be prescribed shall for the purposes of the said Sub-section (2) of Section sixteen be substituted as respects any such seaman, marine, or soldier for the sum of one shilling and threepence.
    Lords Amendments:
    In Sub-section (3), leave out the words "seaman, marine, or soldier" and insert the word "person."—Agreed to.
    After the word "person" insert the words "and to be resident in such county or county borough as may be prescribed."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "such seaman, marine or soldier", and insert instead there of the words "person to whom the said Section forty-six applies."—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 25.—(Application of National Health insurance Acts to Men of the Air Force.)
    The provisions of Section forty-six of the principal Act (which relates to persons in the naval and military service of the Crown) and of any subsequent enactment amending that Section shall, subject to such modifications and adaptations as may be prescribed (including any modifications and adaptations necessary to meet the case of persons who are transferred from the Navy or Army to the Air Force), extend to officers and men of the Regular Air Force, the Air Force. Reserve, and the Auxiliary Air Force, as if the references in those provisions to soldiers, the Regular Forces, the Army Reserve, and the Territorial Force included references to airmen of the Regular Air Force, the Air Force Reserve, and the Auxiliary Air Force, respectively.
    Lords Amendments:
    After the word "Force" ["Navy or Army to the Air Force"] insert the words "or from the Air Force to the Navy or Army."—Agreed to.
    After the word "extend" ["extend to officers and men of the Regular Air Force"], insert the words "and be deemed always to have extended."—Agreed to.
    At the end add the words "In this Section the expression 'prescribed' means prescribed by regulations made by the Insurance Commissioners in conjunction with the Air Council."—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 26.— (Repeal of s. 47 of Principal Act.)
    (1) Section forty-seven of the principal Act (which makes special provision for cases where an employer is liable to pay wages during sickness) shall cease to have effect.
    (2) If upon the first making after the commencement of tills Act of a valuation under Section thirty-six of the principal Act. it appears to the. National Health Insurance Joint Committee that any approved society or branch has incurred a substantial loss by reason of any members of the society or branch having been persons in respect of whom Section fortyseven of the principal Act applied, the Committee shall credit to that society or branch such amount as is in their opinion, sufficient to make good the loss, and shall charge to the Reserve Suspense Fund the amount so credited.
    Lords Amendments:
    In Sub-section (2), leave out the words "the Committee shall credit", and insert instead thereof the words "there shall be credited."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "their opinion", and insert the words "the opinion of the Committee."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "shall charge", and insert instead thereof the words "the amount so credited shall be charged."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "the amount so credited."—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 28.—(Provisions with Respect to Teachers.)
    (c) Employment as a teacher of any class which may be specified in a special order made by the Insurance Commissioners after consultation with the Board of Education as being a class in the case of which the conditions of employment are similar to the conditions of employment prevailing in the case of
    2048
    teachers to whom the Elementary School Teachers (Superannuation) Act, 1898, applies, or in the case of pupil teachers.
    Lords Amendment:
    Leave out the words "in the case of pupil teachers", and insert instead thereof the words "to the conditions prevailing in the employments specified in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Sub-section."—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 29.—(Disposal of Sums Contributed on Unclaimed Cards.)
    Where the Insurance Commissioners are satisfied as respects any sums received by them on account of sales of stamps issued for the purpose of Part I. of the principal Act that no claim has been or is likely to be made by or on behalf of any approved society or any deposit contributor for the crediting of those sums to the society or the Deposit Contributors Fund, those sums shall as to nine-tenths thereof be carried to the Central Fund, and as to the residue thereof be applied in such manner as may be prescribed:
    Lords Amendments:
    Leave out the words "are satisfied", and insert instead thereof the words "satisfy the Treasury."—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 32.—(Provisions with. Respect to Medical Practitioners.)
    Lords Amendment:
    In Sub-section (3), at the commencement, insert the words "The power to make regulations under the last preceding Subsection with respect to the inquiries therein mentioned shall not extend so as to authorise regulations to be made with respect to any such inquiries held in Scotland, but."—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 38.—(Amendment of s.63 of Principal Act.)
    (2) In Sub-section (2) of the said Section, for the words "been in excess of the average expectation of sickness by more than ten per cent." there shall be substituted the words "been in excess of the amount of sickness which, in the opinion of the person holding the inquiry, would have occurred if there had been no default by any person or authority as aforesaid," and Sub-section (4) of the said Section shall be repealed.
    Lords Amendments:
    After the word "cent.," insert the words "and that such excess was in whole or in part due to any such cause as aforesaid the amount of any."—Agreed to.
    After the word "aforesaid" ["any person or authority as aforesaid"], insert the words "the amount of that."—Agreed to.
    After the word "and" ["and Sub-section (4)], insert the words "the words 'or such part thereof as aforesaid,' wherever those words occur in Sub-section (2) of the said Section, and."—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 40.—(Civil Proceedings Against Employer for Neglecting to Comply with Principal Act.)
    (1) Where an employer has failed or neglected to pay any contribution which under this Part of this Act he is liable to pay in respect of any insured person in his employment (hereinafter referred to as "an employé") or has failed or neglected to comply in relation to any employé with the requirements of any regulations relating to the payment and collection of contributions, and by reason thereof the employé or any person claiming through him has lost in whole or in part any benefits to which he would have been entitled under Part of the principal Act, he shall be entitled to recover summarily from the employer as a civil debt a stun equal to the amount of any sickness, disablement or maternity benefit which he has lost as aforesaid, and a sum equal to the amount of any expenses which lie has incurred by reason of not being entitled to medical benefit or sanatorium benefit.
    (3) An employé who is not a member of an approved society shall in any proceedings under this Section be entitled to recover from his employer the same amount as he would have been entitled to recover if he had been a member of an approved society.
    Lords Amendments:
    In Sub-section (1), leave out the words "this part of this," and insert instead thereof the words "Part I. of the principal."—Agreed to.
    In Sub-section (3), leave out the words. "an employé who," and insert instead thereof the words "if an employé"—Agreed to:
    After the word "society" ["society shall in any proceedings"], insert the words "he or any person claiming through him."—Agreed to.

    CLAUSE 46.—(Application of s. 17 of 3 and 4 Geo. 5, c. 37, to Variations in Rules of Societies Necessitated by this Act.)
    Section seventeen of the National Insurance Act, 1913, which empowers the Insurance Commissioners to authorise variations in rules of approved societies rendered necessary by the passing of that Act, shall have effect as if the reference therein to Amendments rendered necessary by the passing of that Act included a reference to variations or Amendments rendered necessary by the passing of this Act.
    Lords Amendment:
    At the end of the Clause, add the words "and to any variations or Amendments required to secure that no insured person who is suffering from any form of venereal disease shall, on the ground that the disease is or may have been due to misconduct, be deprived of any sickness or disablement benefit to which he would otherwise have been entitled."
    Mr. SPEAKER: This also is a privilege Amendment. It admits a new class of person to benefits under the Act, namely, those suffering from venereal disease, who were not formerly admissible. Therefore, it adds to the number who benefit under the Act. Of course, it is open to the House to waive its privilege.
    Sir E. CORNWALL: I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
    Mr. SPEAKER: A special entry will be made.
    Lords Amendment:
    After Clause 46, insert

    NEW CLAUSE.—(Extension of 7 and 8 Geo. 5, c. 15, to other Pensionable Persons.)
    The National Insurance (Part I. Amendment) Act, 1917, shall be amended as follows:

    (1) By the insertion in Section one thereof after the word "marines" and after the word "soldiers" of the words, "or other persons."

    (2) By the insertion therein after the words "to whom Section forty-six of

    2051
    the National Insurance Act, 1911, applied" wherever those words occur of the words "or who was an insured person."

    (3) By the substitution for the words "naval or military service" wherever those words occur of the words "naval, military, or other pensionable service."

    Mr. SPEAKER: This Amendment also extends the benefit of the Act.
    Sir E. CORNWALL: It affects the benefit of the Act, but in the direction of limiting rather than extending it.
    Mr. SPEAKER: I beg pardon. It restricts the benefits that nurses and volunteers have hitherto had and puts them in another Clause.
    Sir E. CORNWALL: I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
    Mr. SPEAKER: A special entry will be made.

    CLAUSE 47.—(Short Title, Commencement, Construction, and Repeal.)
    (1) This Act may be cited as the National Health Insurance Act, 1917, and shall he included among the Acts which may be cited as the National Insurance (Health) Acts, 1911 to 1917.
    (2) This Act shall, save as otherwise herein expressly provided, come into operation on the first day of January, nineteen hundred and eighteen, or such later date or dates as the National Health Insurance Joint Committee may by order appoint, and different dates may be appointed for different purposes and different provisions of this Act.
    (3) This Act shall be construed as one with Part I. of the principal Act, and any references in this Act to any provision of Part I. of the principal Act or of the National Insurance Act, 1913, which is amended by this Act, shall "be construed as a reference to that provision as so amended.
    Lords Amendments:
    In Sub-section (1), leave out the words "shall be included among the Acts which may be cited as."—Agreed to.
    At the end of the same Sub-section, add the words, "and this Act may be cited
    2052
    together as the National Insurance (Health) Acts, 1911 to 1918."—Agreed to.
    In Sub-section (20), leave out. the word "January," and insert instead thereof the word "July."—Agreed to.
    In Sub-section (3), after the word "which," insert the words "has been amended by any other Act or."—Agreed to.

  THIRD SCHEDULE.

    Part II.
    (3) In any case in which the Scottish Insurance Commissioners have made a disallowance or surcharge, the auditor may reopen the audit for the purpose of giving effect to the decision of the Commissioners.
    Lords Amendment:
    Leave out paragraph (3).—Agreed to.

  FOURTH SCHEDULE.
  Matters with respect to which Regulations may be made.
  FOURTH SCHEDULE.

    Part I.
    (1) The manner and conditions in and upon which the following matters may be carried into effect:—
    (b) The transfer of the engagements of a branch of an approved society, or of such of those engagements as relate to men only or to women only, to any other branch, or to any two or more other branches, of that society or of any other society or to any other seciety;
    (4) Applying to the Navy and Army Insurance Fund and to the members of that Fund, subject to the prescribed modifications, adaptations and exceptions, the provisions of Part I. of the principal Act and of this Act relating to approved societies and to membership of and transfer to and from approved societies, and relating to persons lapsing from insurance, and for providing benefits (other than additional benefits) out of that fund to the seamen, marines and soldiers who are not members of an approved society when discharged for such period after discharge as may be prescribed.
    Lords Amendments:
    At the end of paragraph (1, b), insert the words "or to any two or more other societies."—Agreed to.
    In paragraph (4), after the word "to" ["approved societies and to membership"], insert the words "members and."—Agreed to.
    Leave out the words "the seamen, marines and soldiers," and insert instead thereof the words "any persons being persons to whom Section 46 of the principal Act applies and."—Agreed to.

    ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE.
    Resolved, "That this House, at its rising this day, do adjourn till Tuesday next"—[Lord Edmund Talbot.]
    Whereupon Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House, without Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 3.
    Adjourned at Twenty-two minutes before Five o'clock until Tuesday, 5th February.

WAR.
  COMMISSIONS AND COMMITTEES.
  COMMISSIONS AND COMMITTEES.
  NAVAL AND MILITARY PENSIONS AND GRANTS.
  NAVAL AND MILITARY PENSIONS AND GRANTS.
  MERCANTILE MARINE (DEPENDANTS' COMPENSATION).
  MERCANTILE MARINE (DEPENDANTS' COMPENSATION).
  CHELSEA BARRACKS (SURPLUS GUARDS).
  CHELSEA BARRACKS (SURPLUS GUARDS).
  QUEEN ALEXANDRA'S IMPERIAL NURSING RESERVE.
  QUEEN ALEXANDRA'S IMPERIAL NURSING RESERVE.
  SOLDIERS' LEAVE.
  SOLDIERS' LEAVE.
  NON-COMBATANT CORPS (FRANCE).
  NON-COMBATANT CORPS (FRANCE).
MILITARY SERVICE.
  CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR.
  CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR.
  AIR RAIDS (WARNINGS).
  AIR RAIDS (WARNINGS).