Sitting of 17 April 1916

Preamble
The LORD CHANCELLOR acquainted the House, That the Clerk of the Parliaments had laid upon the Table the Certificates from the Examiners that the further Standing Orders applicable to the following Bills have been complied with:

Metropolitan Electric Tramways.

Plymouth and Stonehouse Gas.

Uxbridge Gas.

Colonial Bank.

Cardiff Railway.

Also the Certificate that no Standing Orders are applicable to the following Bill:
Municipal Corporations (Buxton Scheme Confirmation). [H.L.]
And also the Certificate that the Standing Orders applicable to the following Bill have been complied with:
Gas Provisional Orders.
The same were ordered to lie on the Table.

RIVER GLEN BILL. [H.L.]
THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES informed the House that the opposition to the Bill was withdrawn: The Orders made on the 15th of March and Thursday last discharged, and Bill committed.

RETURNS, REPORTS, &c.
Miscellaneous, No. 12 (1916)—List of Articles Contraband of War:
Irish Land Commission—Return of Advances made under the Irish Land Purchase Acts during the month of June 1915:
Presented (by command) and ordered to lie on the Table.
India (Loans raised in England)—Return of all Loans raised in England chargeable on the Revenues of India outstanding at the commencement of the half-year ended 31st March 1916, &c.:
Patents, Designs, and Trade Marks—Twenty-third Report of the Comptroller-General of Patents, Designs, and Trade Marks, with Appendices for the year 1915:
Companies (Consolidation) Act, 1908—Account showing Receipts and Expenditure on account of proceedings in connection with the winding-up of Companies under the Companies (Consolidation) Act, 1908, during the year ended 31st March 1916:
Bankruptcy Act, 1914 (Proceedings)—Account showing Receipts and Expenditure on account of Bankruptcy Proceedings during the year ended 31st March 1916:
Duchy of Lancaster (Methwold Reclamation Scheme)—Account of cash receipts and payments in respect of Development Fund Grant for year ended 20th December 1915 (in continuation of House of Commons Paper, No. 40, of Session 1916):
Supreme Court of Judicature—Rules, January 1916:
Indictments Act, 1915—Indictment (Criminal Informations and Inquisitions) Rules, 1916, dated 10th April 1916, made by the Rule Committee under the Act:
Shops Act, 1912—Orders made by the under-mentioned Local Authorities and confirmed by the Secretary of State for the Home Department, affecting certain classes of shops within their respective areas—

1. County Council of West Riding of Yorkshire, Urban Districts of—

Barnoldswick;

Featherstone;

Guiseley;

Mexborough, Swinton and Wath-upon-Dearne;

2. Borough Council of Stockton-on-Tees:

Laid before the House (pursuant to Act) and ordered to lie on the Table.

CONSOLIDATION BILLS.
Message from the Commons that they have ordered that the Committee appointed by them to join with the Committee of this House to consider the said Bills do meet the Lords Committee in Committee Room A on Tuesday, the 9 th of May next, at half-past Three o'clock as proposed by their Lordships.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Moved, That Standing Order No. XXXIX be suspended for the remainder of the week (The Duke of Devonshire); agreed to, and ordered accordingly.

EDUCATION (PROVISION OF MEALS) (IRELAND) BILL.
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
VISCOUNT ALLENDALE: My Lords, this is a short Bill to amend the Education (Provision of Meals) (Ireland) Act, 1914. That Act has been in operation for over a year with very satisfactory results; but experience of its working has proved that in Ireland, especially in Dublin, the proceeds of a halfpenny rate are not sufficient to provide meals for necessitous school children during the period of the year when such assistance is most urgently required. This Bill, therefore, extends the rating limit for this purpose from a halfpenny to a penny in the £. I may explain that the limit of a halfpenny rate has also been repealed in the case of the English Act. In the Irish Act of 1914 there is a provision to the effect that the measure should continue in operation until December 31, 1916, and no longer. It is proposed in this Bill to repeal that provision. This repeal is really consequential upon the main amendment of the Act of 1914, which would be futile if that Act were to expire next December.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Viscount Allendale.)
On Question, Bill read 2a.
Committee negatived: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 3a, and passed.

IMPERIAL INSTITUTE (MANAGEMENT) BILL.
Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read.
Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Islington.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
House in Committee accordingly.
[The EARL OF DONOUGHMORE in the Chair.]
Clauses agreed to.
Schedule:
1.The Executive Council shall consist of twenty-five members, appointed as follows:—

By the Board of Trade

Two.

By the Secretary or State for India

Two.

By the President of the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries

One.

By the Government of India

One.

By the Government of the Dominion of Canada

One.

By the Government of the Commonwealth of Australia

One.

By the Government of the Union of South Africa

One.

By the Government of the Dominion of New Zealand

One.

By the Government of New-foundland

One.

By the Secretary of State for the Colonies

Fourteen.

2.The term of office of a member of the Executive Council shall be three years.
3.The members of the Executive Council shall retire on the expiration of their term of office, and their offices shall be filled by fresh appointments in accordance with the foregoing provisions of this Schedule.
4.A casual vacancy occurring in the office of any member of the Executive Council by death, resignation, or otherwise, shall be filled by appointment in manner directed by the foregoing provisions of this Schedule as respects the member whose office is vacant; but the member so appointed shall hold office only so long as the member whose office is vacant would have held office.
5. A retiring member may be re-appointed.
6. The Executive Council may act notwithstanding any vacancy in their number.
LORD SUDELEY: I move, at the end of paragraph 1 of the Schedule, to add a proviso that, in addition to the twenty-five appointed members, Ministers of Dominion Governments, Governors of Crown Colonies and Protectorates, members of the Governor-General's Council in India, Governors of Indian Presidencies, and Lieutenant-Governors of Indian Provinces when in England shall be ex officio members of the Executive Council without the power of voting.
There can be no doubt that if the plan which I suggest were carried out and these representatives were brought into intimate relationship with the Imperial Institute it would be of the greatest benefit. The natural result would be that when in their various Dominions these Ministers would think a great deal about the Institute and

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would devise various ways in which its research work could be promoted, and when they were coming on a visit to the Mother Country they would look about them to see what information they could bring home, knowing that they would have a seat on the Executive Council, In this way the authorities would be helped in the solution of many great problems. It is stated that after the war there will be a great many Imperial Conferences and that many Ministers of Oversea Dominions will be coming to England. Surely it would be of great advantage that these gentlemen should have the privilege of sitting on the Executive Council of the Imperial Institute. Even though they may not have the right to vote, they would be able to give a great deal of information and would go away knowing exactly what the Institute was doing. It must be remembered that unless it has proper financial support, the Imperial Institute cannot do much. But if these great officials know what is being clone they will appreciate it, and when they appreciate it they will, on their return to their Dominions, co-operate and do everything they can to promote the research work of the Institute and the gradual development of the vast resources of the Empire.
As a brilliant example of what I wish to see carried out, I would refer to the case of the noble Lord who is in charge of this Bill. Here you have an instance of a high official who has been Governor of a great Colony. On returning to England he at once recognised the enormous value of the work of the Imperial Institute, and in a very short time he became chairman of the Advisory Committee; and now you see him, in his capacity as Under-Secretary of State for India, introducing this Bill, and making, as he did last Thursday, a most eloquent speech in moving the Second Reading. That is an example of the enormous advantage of Colonial Governors and Ministers coming into touch with the work of the Imperial Institute. If we could get other Colonial representatives of similar capacity to take an interest in the Institute, the work of developing the resources of this great Empire would be carried out in a much more satisfactory way. The Imperial Institute has had a chequered career from its inception, due to its having had very little support. We now have in this Bill an arrangement for a new management and a different constitution; and I hope that the Government will take steps
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to boom the work which the institute is doing, so that we shall not have again in a few years to look back upon a time when little has been done.
Amendment moved—
In the Schedule, page 3, after line 16, insert ("Provided always that, in addition to the twenty-five appointed members, Ministers of Dominion Governments, Governors of Crown Colonies and Protectorates, members of the Governor-General's Council in India, Governors of Indian Presidencies, and Lieutenant Governors of Indian Provinces when in England shall be ex officio members of the Executive Council without the power of voting").—(Lord Sudeley.)
THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (LORD ISLINGTON): My Lords, the Amendment which my noble friend has moved deals with an object which I am sure all members of this House would desire to see attained. Certainly it is one with which I have the strongest sympathy myself, and I am authorised to say that the Secretary of State for the Colonies, on whose behalf I ant speaking, shares the same sentiment. The arguments which the noble Lord has advanced go to show that his main desire is to bring into closer contact with the Imperial Institute those in responsible positions in the Colonies and Dominions and in India. If I am unable to accept the Amendment in the form in which it is moved, I can assure the noble Lord that it is not due to any reluctance or indifference on my part to affording every possible opportunity to those representatives to become intimately acquainted with the Imperial Institute. The proposal, however, in the precise form in which it is placed on the Paper is hardly in accordance with our ordinary procedure in regard to Bills of this character. The matter is rather one which should be left to executive action on the part of the statutory constitution when it is set up.
I would remind noble Lords that the Executive Council which is proposed is already a large one, twenty-five in number. In another place it was argued by some hon. Members that this number was too great, but, as I attempted to point out in moving the Second Reading of this Bill last week, the number decided upon is inevitable owing to the numerous interests which have to be represented on this body; and prominent among those interests will be the very representatives whom the noble Lord, by his Amendment, seeks to admit in duplicate. If this Amendment were accepted, it would at certain periods of the

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year greatly increase the number of the Executive Council; whilst the extra members who would thus be eligible to attend would in the very nature of the case attend somewhat intermittently, and would not be in the same position to be fully acquainted with the routine work as the regular members of the Council. I think noble Lords will agree that if the Institute is to be efficiently conducted in the years to come the same body of people should work to a definite and considered objective, and that any sudden infusion of new members, even if they did not have votes, might to some extent prejudice the smooth working of the administrative machine.
Although I am unable on behalf of the Colonial Office to accept the Amendment proposed, I hope that for all practical purposes I shall be able to meet the object which the noble Lord seeks to attain when I inform him that I am authorised by His Majesty's Government to say that, whilst these representatives, whether they are from the Dominions or from the Colonies or Protectorates or from India, cannot actually be admitted as members of the Executive Council by Statute during their sojourn in England, steps will be taken to secure that every opportunity shall be afforded to them not only to visit the Institute whenever they desire to do so, but also they may be invited to attend the sittings of the Executive Council during the time that they are in England. I would go further and say that I have no doubt that the Executive Council—it will be a matter for them to decide—when they are in working order, will also give facilities to any responsible representative from any part of the Empire who happens to be here at the time to attend, and he might possibly also be co-opted as a member of any of the sub-committees that might be sitting at the time dealing with parts of the Empire or with groups of products with which that particular representative might be especially concerned. I hope my noble friend will realise that I have approached his Amendment with every sympathy in regard to its object, and I trust that what I have said will satisfy him that every opportunity is to be taken to bring responsible oversea representatives, when they are in this country, into the closest possible contact with the Imperial Institute, so that the Institute may have full advantage of their advice and counsel. In these circumstances I hope that the noble Lord will not press his Amendment.
LORD SUDELEY: I thank the noble Lord for the way in which he has received my suggestion. But the whole question is, Will the action which he has described be carried out by the Colonial Office? If a provision to this effect were inserted in the Bill, it would be bound to be given effect to. But Colonial Office officials come and go, and the great difficulty is in being certain that the promise which has been given will be fully carried out. I am confident that so long as the noble Lord has anything to do with the matter, it will be. If I am correct in understanding that an official invitation from the Colonial Office will be given to these gentlemen to attend the meetings of the Executive Council I am satisfied, and I beg to withdraw the Amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Schedule agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 3a, and passed.

PACIFIC ISLANDS REGULATIONS (VALIDATION) BILL.
House in Committee (according to Order): Bill reported without amendment: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 3a,and passed.

COURTS (EMERGENCY POWERS) (AMENDMENT) BILL. [H.L.]
Amendments reported (according to Order).
LORD HYLTON: There are two further purely verbal Amendments to be moved in this Bill. The first is in Clause 3.
Amendment moved—
Clause 3, page 2, line 8, after the second "Act" insert ("the Courts (Emergency Powers) (Ireland) Act, 1914").—(Lord Hylton.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
LORD HYLTON: The second Amendment is in the Title. Your Lordships will remember that when this Bill was in Committee the Lord Chancellor agreed to the omission of the whole of Clause 3 relating to mortgages. I therefore move to omit from the Title the words "mortgagees and companies."
Amendment moved—
In the Title, leave out ("mortgagees and companies").—(Lord Hylton.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 3a, and passed, and sent to the Commons, and to be printed as amended. (No.23.)

MARRIAGE (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Read 3a (according to Order), and passed.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT (EMERGENCY PROVISIONS) BILL.
[SECOND READING.]
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
LORD HYLTON: My Lords, this Bill, which has conic up from another place, is an emergency Bill like many others which Parliament has passed since the beginning of the war, and, as your Lordships will see from the last clause, it is intended that the Bill shall have effect only during the continuance of the war and not exceeding twelve months thereafter. The Bill is designed to regularise action of doubtful legality that may have been taken by certain local authorities, and at the same time to effect, if possible, a considerable economy in money and labour in connection with local administration. If your Lordships will turn to Part I of the Bill, you will see that it deals with the financial arrangements necessary in cases where officers or servants of local authorities have joined the Colours or in other ways left their normal employment to undertake war work. In many cases local authorities agreed, at the time that their employees joined the Forces of the Crown, to supplement the amounts which they were hitherto in receipt of in respect of their work as municipal employees. This Bill legalises any payments made under such undertakings before a date to be fixed by the Local Government Board, and also any payments made after that date if they are within either the scale laid down in Clause 1 of the Bill or the scale applied by the Treasury to the case of Civil Servants on active service. It is further provided that in cases presenting special features of hardship the Local Government Board shall have power to sanction special rates of payment, unless they are altogether excessive, where they
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are satisfied that it was upon reliance on an undertaking that he would receive payment at the special rate that the official volunteered for service. Clauses 2 and 3 are directed to the preservation of rights under superannuation schemes of municipal officers and others who have joined the Colours or otherwise engaged in war work.
Part II contains various administrative provisions directed to securing economy both in money and in labour. It abolishes certain complicated statutory returns, and, as regards certain matters of metropolitan finance, substitutes for the existing system a simpler method; and these alterations have been agreed to by all the metropolitan authorities concerned. Clause 5 has been inserted in the Bill to meet one of the recommendations of the Retrenchment Committee, presided over by the noble Viscount, Lord Midleton. The sum of 1s. has been substituted for 2s. 6d., which has hitherto been paid to medical practitioners for the notification of infectious disease. Objection has been raised that the sum of ls. is a very small one to be paid to a medical practitioner for making a diagnosis of a patient's state of health; but this sum is not intended as a fee for diagnosis, but merely as a fee for filling up the notification form which it is necessary to send to the local authority. Clause 6 legalises the generous action of many local authorities who have placed at the disposal of sick and wounded soldiers and other persons connected with the war the use of many of their premises and other buildings. Clause 11 reduces the number of men who up to now have been required by Statute to attend road locomotives and threshing machines. Clause 12 substitutes a simpler machinery for the issue of sanctions by the Local Government Board, the expense of the preparing and printing of which is considerable and has been found by experience to be really unnecessary in a number of cases.
I should like to draw special attention to Clause 18, which was inserted in this Bill in accordance with the pledge given by the noble Marquess the Leader of the House when the Naval and Military War Pensions, Etc. (Expenses) Act, 1916, was before the House. Several noble Lords, of whom Lord Camperdown was one, objected to the local rates being possibly called upon to bear part of the administrative expenses of that Act, and a pledge

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was given by His Majesty's Government that a clause would be inserted in this Bill to provide that the contributions made by a local authority towards the administrative expenses of a local or district committee under Section 2 of that Act should be subject to the sanction of the Local Government Board. Clause 23 limits the duration of the Bill to the period of the war and afterwards for such period or periods, if any, not exceeding one year, as the Local Government Board may fix; and by this clause the Board are empowered to fix different periods for different provisions of the Bill. I beg to move.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Hylton.)
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: Clause 11 of this Bill, as the noble Lord has explained, alters the arrangements which are at present in force with regard to locomotives on highways. I should like to ask whether this alteration in the law is to be permanent or merely to last for the duration of the war and a year afterwards.
LORD HYLTON: I ought to have explained that there are several provisions in this Bill which it is not intended shall be purely temporary. The provision, for instance, in Clause 18—which enacts that the contributions made by a local authority
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towards the administrative expenses of a local or district committee under Section 2 of the Naval and Military War Pensions, Etc. (Expenses) Act, 1916, shall be subject to the sanction of the Local Government Board—is intended to be a permanent provision. As to the question which the noble Earl has just asked, I should like to postpone any decisive answer until to-morrow, when the Committee stage of this Bill will be taken.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: Clause 23 says that this Bill "except the provisions of Clauses 2, 3, and 16," shall have effect only during the continuance of the war and for one year thereafter. But nothing is there said as to Clause 11, and I should like to know whether the provision in that clause is a temporary provision only.
LORD HYLTON: I will answer that question to-morrow, when I shall have some Amendments to move on behalf of the Local Government Board.
On Question, Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.
House adjourned at five minutes past Five o'clock, till Tomorrow, a quarter past Four o'clock.