Sitting of 29 June 1906

Preamble
The House met at Twelve of the Clock.
PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS.

  PRIVATE BILLS [LORDS] (STANDING ORDERS NOT PREVIOUSLY INQUIRED INTO COMPLIED WITH).
  Mr. SPEAKER laid upon the Table Report from one of the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, That, in the case of the following Bills, originating in the Lords, and referred on the First Reading thereof, the Standing Orders not previously inquired into, and which are applicable thereto, have been complied with, viz.:—Nettlebed and District Commons (Preservation) Bill [Lords]; Ritz Hotel, Limited, Bill [Lords]; Folkestone, Sandgate, and Hythe Tramways Bill [Lords].
  Ordered, That the Bills be read a second time.
  Cambrian Railways Bill [Lords]. Read the third time, and passed, with Amendments.
  Bury Corporation Bill [Lords]; Clacton Urban District Council Bill [Lords]. As
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  amended, considered; Amendments-made; Bill to be read the third time.
  Newport Harbour Commissioners Bill [Lords]; Railway Clearing System (Superannuation Fund) Bill [Lords]. As amended, considered; to be read the third time.
  Sheffield District Railway Bill [Lords] (by Order). As amended, considered; to be read the third time.
  Local Government Provisional Order (Housing of Working Classes) Bill; Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 11) Bill; Pier and Harbour Provisional Order (No. 3) Bill. Read the third time, and passed.
  Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 8) Bill. As amended, considered; read the third time, and passed.
  Kingston-upon-Hull Corporation Bill. Reported, with Amendments. Report to lie upon the Table, and to be printed.

  PRIVATE BILLS (GROUP H).
  Mr. MOONEY reported from the Committee on Group H of Private Bills, That, for the convenience of parties, the Committee had adjourned till Tuesday next, at half past Eleven of the clock.
  Report to lie upon the Table.

  MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
  That they have agreed to:—Indian Railways Act Amendment Bill; Education of Defective Children (Scotland) Bill; North and South Shields Electric Railway Bill; Brixham Gas (Electric Lighting) Bill, without Amendment.
  Kettering Water Bill, with Amendments.
  That they have passed a Bill, intituled, "An Act to confirm certain Provisional Orders made by the Board of Trade, under the Gas and Water Works Facilities Act, 1870, relating to Bolsover and District Water, Great Grimsby Gas, Great

  1249
  Grimsby Water, Hoylake and West Kirby Water, Wath-upon-Dearne and District Gas, and Wollaston Gas." [Gas and Water Orders Confirmation Bill [Lords.]
  Also, a Bill, intituled, "An Act to confirm certain Provisional Orders made by the Board of Trade, under the Gas and Water Works Facilities Act, 1870, relating to Charing Gas, Chichester Gas, Corsham Gas, Farnham Gas, and King's Lynn Gas." [Gas Orders Confirmation (No. 1) Bill [Lords.]
  Also, a Bill, intituled, "An Act to confirm certain Provisional Orders made by the Board of Trade under the Gas and Water Works Facilities Acts, 1870, relating to Newport Pagnell Gas, Pontardulais Gas, Raunds Gas, Redditch Gas, and Saint Austell Gas." [Gas Orders Confirmation (No. 2) Bill [Lords.]
  Also, a Bill, intituled, "An Act to confirm certain Provisional Orders made by the Board of Trade under The Gas and Water Works Facilities Act, 1870, relating to Herne Bay Water, Maidstone Water, Mid-Kent Water, Rickmansworth and Uxbridge Valley Water, Sleaford and District Water, and Slough Water." [Water Orders Confirmation Bill [Lords.]
  Also, a Bill, intituled. "An Act to confirm certain Provisional Orders made by the Board of Trade under The Electric Lighting Acts, 1882 and 1888, The Electric Lighting (Scotland) Act, 1890, and The Electric Lighting (Scotland) Act, 1902, relating to Bellshill, Blantyre, Bothwell, Dunfermlime and District, Dunoon, Fochabers, Inveresk, Shettleston, and Tollcross, and Uddingston." [Electric Lighting Provisional Orders (No. 3) Bill [Lords.]
  And, also, a Bill, intituled, "An Act for confirming an agreement between the right hon. Godfrey Charles, Viscount Tredegar, and the trustees of his settled estates, and the Alexander (Newport and South Wales) Docks and Railway Company, for the conveyance to the Company of lands forming part of the
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  settled estates; and an Agreement between the Company and Lord Tredegar for the issue to Lord Tredegar of a sum of £100,000 Preferred Ordinary Stock of the Company; for authorising the trustees of the settled estates to purchase from Lord Tredegar a sum of £25,000, part of such last-mentioned Preferred Ordinary Stock; and for other purposes." [Lord Tredegar's Supplemental Estate Bill [Lords.]
  Earldom of Norfolk,—That they request that this House will be pleased to give leave to the proper Officer of this House to attend, in order to his being examined as a Witness before the Committee for Privileges, and to bring with him the Journals of this House in order to their being produced before the said Committee.
  Gas and Water Orders Confirmation Bill [Lords]. Read the first time; referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, and to be printed. [Bill 286.]
  Gas Orders Confirmation (No. 1) Bill [Lords]. Read the first time; referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, and to be printed. [Bill 287.]
  Gas Orders Confirmation (No. 2) Bill [Lords]. Read the first time; referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, and to be printed. [Bill 288.]
  Water Orders Confirmation Bill [Lords]. Read the first time; referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, and to be printed. [Bill 289.]
  Electric Lighting Provisional Orders (No. 3) Bill [Lords]. Read the first time; referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, and to be printed. [Bill 290.]
  Lord Tredegar's Supplemental Estate Bill [Lords]. Read the first time; and referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills.

PETITIONS.
  BETTING AND GAMBLING.
  Petitions from Hyde, for legislation; to lie upon the Table.
  DUBLIN CIVIL BILL COURT AMENDMENT BILL.
  Petition from Dublin, in favour; to lie upon the Table.
  EDUCATION (ENGLAND AND WALES) BILL.
  Petitions against; from Alvaston and Boulton; Bylchan, Denbigh, and other places in the Diocese of St. Asaph; Cholsey (two); Newport; Rhiw; and, Wylam; to lie upon the Table.
  EDUCATION (ENGLAND AND WALES) BILL (RELIGIOUS TEACHING).
  Petitions against alteration of Law; from Beccles; Biddenham; Clophill; Dacre and Soulby; Newbiggin; Podington; Sedgefield; Stamton; and Upper-thong (two); to lie upon the Table.
  INFANT LIFE PROTECTION.
  Petitions for alteration of Law; from Stone; and Whitby; to lie upon the Table.
  LAND VALUES TAXATION, ETC. (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  Petition from Glasgow, against; to lie upon the Table.
  POISONS AND PHARMACY BILL [LORDS].
  Petitions for alteration; from Glasgow; Manchester; and Whitby; to lie upon the Table.
  SUGAR CONVENTION (NO. 5, 1906).
  Copy presented, of Report of Proceedings of the International Sugar Commission, Spring Session, 1906 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
  PUBLIC WORKS LOAN BOARD.
  Copy presented, Thirty-first Annual Report (for 1905–6), with Appendices [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 227.]
  WOODS, FORESTS, AND LAND REVENUES.
  Copy presented, of Eighty-fourth Report of the Commissioners, dated June 29th, 1906 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 228.]
  ISLE OF MAN.
  Account presented, of Revenue and Expenditure for the year ended March 31st, 1906, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to printed. [No. 229.]
  POST OFFICE (MONEY ORDERS.)
  Copy presented, of the Postal Order (Inland) Amendment (No. 1) Regulations, 1906, dated June 22nd, 1906 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
  INCLOSURES (COUNTY OF NORFOLK).
  Return ordered, "showing (1) the number of Inclosures of common land made under the Inclosure Acts from 1845 to 1899 in the County of Norfolk; (2) list of parishes within which such lands are wholly or partly situate; (3) total acreage of such Inclosures; (4) average acreage of such Inclosures." (Mr. Winfrey.)
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS CIRCULATED WITH THE VOTES.

  Dismissal of Irish National School Teachers.
  MR. THOMAS O'DONNELL (Kerry, W.): To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he will state the number of Irish national school teachers who have been dismissed by order of the Board for inefficiency, degraded from the position of principal to that of assistant on the same allegation, or forced to retire on small pensions

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  when within five years of their maximum service, during each of the last ten years, with average number of years served in each case.

  Year.

  Teachers dismissed for inefficiency.

  Teachers degraded from position of principal teacher, but not dismissed.

  Teachers from whom salary was withdrawn within live years of their maximum service.

  1896

  Nil.

  Nil

  Nil

  1897

  6

  Nil

  1

  1898

  16

  Nil

  1

  1899

  24

  6

  6

  1900

  19

  Nil

  9

  1901

  18

  2

  6

  1902

  26

  1

  6

  1903

  41

  5

  17

  1904

  61

  3

  24

  1905

  49

  2

  7

  The average service of the teachers included in the last column was thirty-seven years.

  Rateable Value and Income-Tax on Bass's, Allsopp's, and Guinness's Brewery.
  MR. FETHERSTONHAUGH (Fermanagh, N.): To ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether he is aware that the rateable valuation of Bass and Company's brewery at Burton is £43,771, Allsopp's in same town £28,673, and Guinness's brewery, Dublin, £12,000; will he say if income-tax is charged upon these valuations as well as local Rates and taxes; and can he say at what date the Commissioner of Valuation will be in a position to commence the revaluation of the City of Dublin.
  (Answered by Mr. McKenna.) The information, on which I was able to reply to the hon. Member's Question on the 14th instant † respecting Messrs. Bass's breweries, was supplied by the secretary
  † See (4) Debates, clviii., 1112–3.
  (Answered by Mr. Bryce.) The Commissioners of National Education have furnished me with the following statement:—
  of the company, who courteously informed the Commissioner of Valuation (Ireland) that the net rateable value of their three breweries was £22,150. I understand that the figure quoted by the hon. Member includes stores and other buildings besides the breweries. The figure given for Messrs. Alsopp's breweries is, I believe, approximately correct, if the other buildings are included. The amount, £22,000, stated by me to be the valuation of Messrs. Guinness's breweries was taken from this year's valuation lists. The revenue is not affected by the amount of the valuation, inasmuch as the annual value on which property tax is paid is allowed as a deduction in computing the profits of the business for assessment under Schedule D. The Commissioner of Valuation informs me that he expects to begin the revaluation of Dublin within the next two months.

  Transportation of Unemployed to the Colonies.
  SIR CHARLES DILKE: To ask the

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  President of the Local Government Board if he will state how many adult males have recently been sent to New Zealand by unemployed committees receiving aid from rates or public taxes, and how many sent elsewhere across the seas.
  (Answered by Mr. John Burns.) Up to May 31st last, the Central (Unemployed) Body for London had sent 350 adult males to the Colonies, viz. 41 to New Zealand and 309 to Canada. The Returns from the Distress Committees outside London show that, up to March 31st last, they had sent 152 adult males to the Colonies, all of whom went to Canada. The later figures have not yet been received.

  Report of Motor Cars Commission.
  MR. YOUNGER: To ask the President of the Local Government Board when the Report of the Royal Commission on Motor Cars may be expected.
  (Answered by Mr. John Burns.) I have made inquiry on this subject, and I have every reason to believe that the Report will shortly be presented.

  Outbreak of Ophthalmia at Rugby.
  MR. R. PEARCE: To ask the President of the Local Government Board whether his attention has been called to the frequent recurrence of cases of ophthalmia, conjunctivis impetigo, and other preventible diseases at the public school at Rugby during some years past; and whether, by holding an inquiry or otherwise, ho will take steps to prevent danger to the public health by the spread of these disorders, usually arising from bad sanitary arrangements.
  (Answered by Mr. John Burns.) I was not aware of the outbreaks referred to. I will communicate with the urban district council on the subject.

  Increase of Rates between Newhaven and Dieppe.
  SIR JOHN BRUNNER: To ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway Company have for several years past charged more than their legal
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  maximum fares for passengers from London or Newhaven to Dieppe, and that their Bill of this year, which has passed this House, allows of an increase in the legal maximum; and whether the Board made any Report upon the Bill as regards these facts.
  (Answered by Mr. Lloyd-George.) The Board of Trade have recently pointed out to the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway Company that the fares-they are charging to passengers from Newhaven to Dieppe, and to third class passengers from London to Dieppe, appear to be in excess of their powers, and the' Company is putting reduced fares into operation on the 1st proximo. The Company's Bill of this Session contains a proposal to increase the maximum fares-authorised on the steam vessels between Newhaven and Dieppe. No Report from the Department on this proposal appears to be required by Standing Orders, but the Board communicated with the Company, who agreed to make a reduction in the maximum fares proposed for second and third class passengers. The new maxima will be 12s. 6d. and 8s. 6d., in place of 13s. and 10s. respectively, as originally proposed, and the Company have undertaken to amend the Bill accordingly.

  Board of Education Library Catalogue.
  MR. THOMASSON: To ask the President of the Board of Education, whether, in view of the current controversy upon education, and the complexity of the whole subject, he will arrange for a printed catalogue of the library of the Board of Education at St. Stephen's House to be prepared and made available at the earliest possible time for the use of the general public.
  (Answered by Mr. Birrell.) The question of a catalogue of the Board of Education Library has, I know, been under consideration; but as the hon. Member's Question is only put upon the Paper today, and the library and office of the Board are closed to-day, being His Majesty's Birthday, I am unable to obtain the requisite information for giving an adequate Answer to the Question. If he will put it on the Paper again this day week I will endeavour to furnish a considered reply.

  Orange Processions at Carrickmore.
  MR. MURNAGHAN: To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, whether he is aware that it has been announced that a body of Orangemen, with bands and banners, are to parade the streets of Carrickmore, county Tyrone, on the coming July 12th, and that their coming is viewed with resentment; is he aware that the district is overwhelmingly Catholic, and that the presence on such a day of men with Orange emblems, and bands playing party tunes, is calculated to create ill feeling and likely to incite to riot; and whether, seeing that the late Government refused to allow Catholic processionists to march through Protestant strongholds and vice versa, will he take steps to forbid the intended procession to take place.
  (Answered by Mr. Bryce.) The matter in question is being inquired into. The necessary steps for the preservation of the peace will be taken, but I am not at present in a position to make a statement as to the particular steps which may be necessary. It is much to be desired that both parties would agree to desist simultaneously from the practice of marching with party emblems and bands playing party tunes, a practice which has frequently caused breaches of the peace.

  ELECTIONS (MEETINGS IN SCHOOLROOMS) BILL [LORDS.]
  Read the first time; to be read a second time upon Wednesday next, and to be printed. [Bill 285.]

LAND TENURE BILL.
As amended (by the Standing Committee), further considered.
SIR FREDERICK BANBURYsaid that in his speech on the previous Friday he had pointed out that the principal defect of Sub-section 1 of Clause 1 was that it left out a line which appeared in a similar section of the Agricultural Holdings Act of 1900, which in his opinion constituted a safeguard, namely "of the inherent capabilities of the soil." He admitted on that occasion that there were many hon. Members on the Opposition side of the
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House who believed their object would be obtained by leaving out those words "the inherent capabilities of the soil." The reason they objected to the words being inserted was that should there be any dispute it would be very difficult to ascertain what improvements were due to the inherent capabilities of the soil, and what to some other reason. It was, he admitted, difficult to find out what had been produced by the inherent capabilities of the soil, and what had been produced by better work on the part of the farmer, and he agreed that nothing that could give facilities to the members of the legal profession for earning money should be put into an Act of Parliament. But the thing must tell the other way, and the effect of leaving these words out would be what very frequently happened now, namely, that a farmer would take a farm in first-class condition, hold it for three years, take all he could out of it and go away. In one particular case in which he was interested the man went bankrupt and they ascertained that he never had any capital, and he had been living in that way for the previous ten years. In regard to these words the landlords were willing to come to a compromise and not engage in litigation, because they knew it was difficult to say what was due to the inherent capabilities of the soil, and the same would apply to the farmer who must know perfectly well that though the improvements were the result of his work and not due to the inherent capabilities of the soil there would be difficulty in proving it, and there would be a risk of litigation. He proposed to add at the end of the sub-section words which would re-insert the words of the Act of 1900—the words "inherent capabilities of the soil." If this sub-section was retained that would insure the purpose he had in view, and he was quite content to achieve his object in that way. Meanwhile he moved the omission of the sub-section.
MR. GARDNERexpressed the opinion that this was a most unfair clause so far as the landlord was concerned. It was quite possible for a farmer who knew the land to estimate what the inherent capabilities of the soil were. It was not right that anyone should be allowed to claim a right to the inherent capabilities of the soil, and if they were to be transferred at all they

1259
should be transferred for the benefit of the general public. Supposing a farm was let to be cultivated in the manner in which it had been cultivated for generations. As time went on, the tenant might find that the land would be of greater value if cultivated in a different manner. In such a case surely a tenant ought to have the right to cultivate the land in the best way. He thought these words ought not to be left out, they were easily definable and easily adjusted between a man and his tenant.
Amendment proposed—
"In page 1, line 10, to leave out Subsection (1) of Clause 1."—(Sir Frederick Banbury.)
Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out, to the end of page 1, line 17, stand part of the Bill."
SIR EDWARD STRACHEY (Somersetshire, S.)said he could not quite understand why the hon. Baronet had moved to leave out this sub-section. With regard to the question of the inherent capabilities of the soil he thought the discussion now taking place was a belated one when they considered what took place during the passage of the Agricultural Holdings Act of 1900. Sir Charles Welby then moved an Amendment with a similar object, but the Government of the day, and the then President of the Board of Agriculture, the right hon. Member for South Dublin, absolutely refused to consider that injustice would be done to the landlord, or to accept the Amendment, and he retained the Bill in the shape it was introduced in the House of Commons. It was quite true that in another place these words were put in, but, in the opinion of the then Government, they were absolutely unnecessary and uncalled for. That was not only the opinion of the Government, but also of Captain Pretyman who farmed some thousands of acres himself, his view being that they would not affect compensation one way or the other, that the putting in of the words "the inherent capabilities of the soil" would only confuse the minds of the valuers, and that, speaking from a practical standpoint, the words should be omitted. Although not a great landlord like Captain Pretyman, he himself had had some practical
1260
experience in these matters, and he agreed with every word uttered by Captain Pretyman in 1900 on this question. Valuers held the same view, and the Central Chamber of Agriculture had emphatically declared against the words "inherent capabilities of the soil" being again introduced. He hoped the Amendment would not be pressed, because it was undesirable to re-argue a matter which had been definitely decided in 1900.
MR. COCHRANE (Ayrshire, N.)said it appeared to him that the hon. Baronet had found himself in a strange and difficult; position. He now urged that to insert these words would confuse the minds of the valuers, but the hon. Baronet was somewhat stultifying some previous Acts of his own, because he was one of the promoters of the Scottish Agricultural Holdings Bill which had the whole weight of the late Board of Agriculture behind it.
SIR EDWARD STRACHEYsaid that was purely a Consolidation Bill, not amending but simply codifying existing law.
MR. COCHRANEsaid that was an extraordinarily specious argument, but it would not do. The fact of the matter was the hon. Gentleman was in a difficulty. Another name on the back of the Scottish Agricultural Holdings Bill was that of the hon. and learned Attorney-General for Scotland, and if he had for a moment thought that these words bore the interpretation placed upon them by the hon. Gentleman who sat next him, he would not have permitted them to come into any Bill having his name on the back. The real fact was that the hon. Gentleman had been rushed by the private Members behind the Bill. Without consulting the Board of Agriculture they had introduced a hotch-potch Bill dealing with the Game and other laws affecting the agricultural interests, and upsetting the law which had existed for many years, without adequate consideration. The hon. Gentleman had either to bring his own knowledge to bear against that of the promoters of the Bill and to state what was his mind and what was that of the Department he represented, or he had to make some specious excuse in order to accept the point of view of the promoters. He thought his hon. friend,

1261
in moving the rejection of this sub-section was perfectly logical and in order. There were only two logical courses to take, either to leave out the whole of the subsection or so to amend it as to bear out the law which they intended to pass. He thought the best solution of the difficulty was to accept the suggestion of his hon. friend and to leave it out.
THE SOLICITOR-GENERAL FOR SCOTLAND (Mr. URE,)said he did not think that anyone in the House who had the slightest familiarity with the question of the rights of the tenants would support this Amendment. To Scotsmen, at all events, it was sufficient to say in the words of the most eminent authority that they had on this branch of the law—
"No man can claim for an improvement effected by him what is due to the inherent capabilities of the soil, and in practice the Court has never been asked to deal with such a preposterous claim."
Although that authority might not appeal with great force to English Members, he thought it would certainly carry some weight. He thought the Amendment would afford the landlord no protection whatever and might have the effect of creating some injustice.
SIR E. CARSONsaid he rose not for the purpose of urging the acceptance of this Amendment, but merely for the purpose of calling attention to the drafting of the sub-section. He had had some experience of trying to make out the meaning of sub-sections of Acts of Parliament from time to time, and this was one of the most extraordinary he had ever read. It spoke of "the first schedule to this Act," but it appeared on examination that it did not mean this Act, but another Act, the Agricultural Holdings Act of 1883. Then, too, he found that the first section of the Act of 1883 was repealed by the first section of the Act of 1900, and now the first section of the Act of 1900 was being repealed by this Bill, and when the first section of the Act of 1900 which repealed the first section of the Act of 1883 was repealed by the first section of this Bill, then he wanted to know what became of the first section of the Act of 1883. He would put another conundrum. How were the improvements to be dealt with which
1262
were made before this Act, but not before the principal Act of 1883? They repealed this section, but at the same time said it was to be subject to the Agricultural Holdings Act of 1883 which was called the principal Act. He found in the Act of 1883 very elaborate provisions as to what was to be the commencement of the Act in relation to improvements of ten years before. Did the present Bill deal only with improvements made after it should come into operation or with improvements made before this Act and not before the Act of 1883. These questions did not go to the merit of the Bill but merely to its drafting. He hoped the Government would put their draftsman on the Bill for a few hours, so that the next time it came before the House of Commons it might be in so simple a form that he who ran might read.
THE SOLICITOR-GENERAL (Sir W. ROBSON,)said the right hon. Gentleman had succeeded in putting very humorously what were not uncommon difficulties in all legislation by reference. He thought the clause was open to some of the objections to legislation by reference, but that it was on the whole simpler than most cases where this-course was adopted.
SIR E. CARSON: No wonder we grow rich!
SIR W. ROBSONsaid what the clause did was to repeal and re-enact and that was precisely the method which was adopted by those who objected to legislation by reference. That was what this clause did, and thus it gave rise to the apparent absurdities to which the right hon. Gentleman had referred. The Act of 1900 was not repealed entirely. What was desired was to make an alteration in sub-section (1) of that Act, and therefore, sub-section (1) was repealed and another sub-section substituted for it in this Bill. This was a measure in which in, future would be read the Act of 1900 with the Amendments in this Bill. The references to the Act of 1883 in the section were perfectly proper. The section said that the provisions of this Bill were to be subject not merely to the Act of 1900 but to the principal Act of 1883. He did not think the Government draftsman; would be able to make a better job of

1263
the Bill unless the expedient of a consolidating and codifying Act were adopted. That course, however, could not be pursued in every case if time were to be economised.
COLONEL LOCKWOODsaid he had no wish to lose himself in the mazes of the law. So far as he knew, the difficulties alluded to by the Solicitor-General and other legal Members might not be apparent to laymen such as himself. But the laymen, who were generally the owners of the property in such cases as they were now discussing, if they were not aware of the difficulties, were painfully aware of the injustice inflicted by this Bill. The Solicitor-General for Scotland had made perfectly plain the difficulty into which they had been landed by making this Bill apply to both England and Scotland. He did not wish to argue the question of the inherent capabilities of the soil. He would take the case of land near a large town, which for years had been farmed by the tenant under the ordinary system of rotation of crops. As the town increased in size the tenant discovered that a fortune might be made by growing vegetables or fruit. In his opinion it was most unfair that the whole characteristics of the farm should be altered without the consent of the landlord. The landlord knew what the soil was capable of producing, and he might be in a position to advise his tenant that he would be wrong if he tried to establish a market garden upon certain land. If the tenant went on with his plan against the advice of his landlord, was it right in case he did not succeed that he should charge his landlord with a large amount as compensation when the whole of the money had been laid out against the landlord's advice and knowledge? Such a proceeding would be grossly unfair, because the owner or his agent was much better acquainted with the capabilities of the soil than the tenant. He should therefore support the Amendment.
MR. WALTER LONG (Dublin, S.)said he listened with astonishment to the Solicitor-General's defence of the draftsmanship of the Bill. The hon. and learned Gentleman unfortunately would not be available to assist the unlucky agriculturists all over the country who
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if this Bill passed would be called on to try and understand its terms. Although he was familiar with the Acts of 1883 and 1900 it took him some time to understand what was the intention of the promoters of the present Bill. The whole object of the sub-section was to get rid of the words, "the inherent capability of the soil," and his hon. friends desired that they should be retained. What the promoters of the Bill had lost sight of was that in 1900 the opinion he held, and which he gave expression to, as to the accurate description of the effect of these words was not shared by a great many other Members, who resisted his suggestion and held that the excision of these words from the Statute would have a serious effect. The result was that the words were inserted in another place, and the Amendment accepted when the Bill came back to this House. During the six years that had passed there had not been one single instance where the retention of the words had caused either doubt or difficulty, and he submitted that the experience of those six years justified the action taken by his hon. friends. Their view was shared by many practical agriculturists in and out of the House. His view in 1900 was what it was now, namely, that whether these words were inserted or not no practical valuer who was called upon to deal with valuations of agricultural improvements effected by tenants could by any possibility exclude from his purview what was due for the cultivation of the soil according to the agreement of the tenant. Two distinct operations were performed by the tenant. He took his farm under an agreement which imposed certain obligations, one of which was to pursue a system of good husbandry or a system in accordance with the custom of the district, and in return the tenant got the land for a particular rent. It was the custom of the tenant to spend a certain amount of money upon improvements, but the mere farming of the land was a part of the condition upon which the tenant farmer received the farm at a particular rent. If the tenant did not enter into that undertaking the question of rent would at once have been materially altered. If the tenant was a good farmer he would go

1265
beyond his agreement, speculate and put capital into his farm, often with beneficial results. There were many farmers possessing intelligence, industry and foresight, who spent money upon the land from which no good result had followed and for which the tenant had no claim at all for compensation. Therefore he believed the promoters of the Bill would do well not to lay so much importance on the retention of the words, or to embark in such complicated legislation for so small a result.
COLONEL KENYON-SLANEYreminded the House that during the discussion on the Bill of 1883, introduced by a Liberal Government, the late Lord Herschell most emphatically endorsed those words as words that should be in the Bill, and that opinion was corroborated by the united opinion of those responsible for the introduction of that measure. When they were asked to consider this Bill as merely a re-echo of the Bill of 1900 he had a right to remind the Liberal Party of what was the opinion of their chief lawyer when the subject first came under the consideration of Parliament. As regarded this particular Amendment he had no very strong feeling. He quite realised that valuers probably did not take into account the inherent capabilities of the soil, but was it not possible that valuers when they saw the provision was taken out might think it was a direct instruction that they should take improvements due to those capabilities into consideration? He thought they should correct the subsection by re-introducing those words, because they were, to a certain extent, a safeguard.
MR. ABEL SMITHsaid he was afraid that the leaving out of those words might be taken by the valuers in a wrong sense in adjudicating upon what was really the property of the owner of the soil. He was one of those who had never been able to understand why people should have any difficulty in understanding what these words meant. The meaning was perfectly clear. The "inherent capabilities of the soil" was the fertility of the soil which might hitherto have been lying latent. It was the property of
1266
the owner of the soil, to secure which possibly he had paid £40, £50, or even £100 per acre. It was the only means by which the owner could secure any return for the capital he laid out in purchasing the land. What was the occupier of the land who made improvements by his skill and labour entitled to? So long as he remained in occupation of the land he enjoyed the results of the improvements he had made, and when his tenancy was determined he was justly entitled to be compensated for the labour and capital which he had expended, and which he had not enjoyed to the full. If they left out the words, "inherent capabilities," it might result in the outgoing tenant receiving compensation out of all proportion to the labour and money which he had expended in bringing the latent fertility to fruition. A clear distinction was drawn years ago by Sir John Lawes, the greatest authority on these questions, between the condition of the land as left and its natural fertility. The outgoing tenant was not entitled to compensation for what Sir John Lawes called the natural fertility of the soil, which in the case of agricultural land was something the owner had paid for. He impressed upon the promoters of the Bill that it would be much more satisfactory, and that it would save a great deal of time if this sub-section were left out altogether. By retaining the words, "inherent capabilities of the soil" they would have been much more likely to secure fair dealing in these matters.
MR. COURTHOPEsaid he only wanted to add a concrete instance of what might be the probable effect of rejecting this Amendment and retaining the clause as it now stood. His right hon. and gallant friend the Member for the Newport Division of Shropshire had said that the effect of cutting out the words "the inherent capabilities of the soil" from the Statute Book must give the impression to a valuer or arbitrator that the inherent capabilities of the soil were intended by this House to be the property of the tenant. He would take a case which frequently happened. A farmer rented some land at say £1 an acre. Part of it he decided to turn

1267
with the permission of the landlord, into a market garden. He expended £50 an acre in so doing, and it would not be at all improbable that he would increase the annual value of the land to as much as £7, £8, or £10 an acre. When he went he would be entitled to compensation at the rate of twenty or twenty-five years purchase on the increase. Working that out on ten acres he would get compensation under this section amounting to £1,500, whereas his total expenditure on the land was only £500. That would almost certainly occur if these words were deliberately cut out of the Statute. He hoped the promoters of the Bill would see their way to cut out the sub-section. He should not have
stood out much for putting in the words "inherent capabilities of the soil" if they were not on the Statute-book already, but as they were there they ought to keep them there.
MR. SOARESmoved that the Question be now put.
MR. SPEAKER: I think the House is now prepared to come to a decision on the Amendment.
Question put.
The House divided:—Ayes, 226; Noes, 74. (Division List No. 167.)

AYES.

Abraham, William (Rhondda)

Donelan, Captain A.

Jones, William (Carnarvonshire

Acland, Francis Dyke

Duffy, William J.

Joyce, Michael

Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch

Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

Kearley, Hudson E.

Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan

Kekewich, Sir George

Ashton, Thomas Gair

Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

Kelley, George D.

Baring, Godfrey (Isleof Wight)

Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall

Kennedy, Vincent Paul

Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

Kilbride, Denis

Barnard, E. B.

Esmonde, Sir Thomas

Kincaid-Smith, Captain

Barran, Rowland Hirst

Evans, Samuel T.

King, Alfred John (Knutsford)

Barry, E. (Cork, S.)

Everett, R. Lacey

Lamb, Edmund G. (Leomisnter)

Beale, W. P.

Farrell, James Patrick

Lamb, Ernest H.(Rochester)

Beck, A. Cecil

Fenwick, Charles

Lambert, George

Bellairs, Carlyon

Ferguson, R. C. Munro

Lamont, Norman

Bennett, E. N.

Ffrench, Peter

Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

Bertram, Julius

Fiennes, Hon. Eustace

Layland-Barratt, Francis

Billson, Alfred

Flynn, James Christopher

Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Paneras, E.)

Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire

Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter

Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington)

Boland, John

Fullerton, Hugh

Lehmann, R. C.

Brace, William

Gill, A. H.

Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral)

Bright, J. A.

Ginnell, L.

Lewis, John Herbert

Brunner, J.F.L.(Lancs., Leigh.)

Glendinning, R. G.

Lundon, W.

Brunner, Sir John T.(Cheshire)

Glover, Thomas

Lupton, Arnold

Burke, E. Haviland-

Greenwood, Hamar (York)

Luttrell, Hugh Fownes

Burns, Rt. Hon. John

Gulland, John W.

Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)

Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas

Halpin, J.

MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.)

Cameron, Robert

Hammond, John

MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E)

Cawley, Frederick

Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)

M'Callum, John M.

Channing, Francis Allston

Harrington, Timothy

M'Crae, George

Cheetham, John Frederick

Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

Cleland, J. W.

Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

M'Micking, Major G.

Clough, W.

Hayden, John Patrick

Maddison, Frederick

Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.)

Hazel, Dr. A. E.

Manfield, Harry (Northants)

Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)

Hazleton, Richard

Marnham, F. J.

Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras, W

Healy, Timothy Michael

Meagher, Michael

Condon, Thomas Joseph

Hedges, A. Paget

Menzies, Walter

Corbett, CH(Sussex, E. Grinst'd)

Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

Micklem, Nathaniel

Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.)

Mond, A.

Crombie, John William

Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe

Montagu, E. S.

Crossley, William J.

Higham, John Sharp

Mooney, J. J.

Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)

Hogan, Michael

Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)

Delany, William

Hooper, A. G.

Morse, L. L.

Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway

Hope, W. Bateman (Somerset, N)

Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)

Howard, Hon. Geoffrey

Murphy, John

Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.

Hutton, Alfred Eddison

Murray, James

Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.

Hyde, Clarendon

Myer, Horatio

Dodd, W. H.

Johnson, John (Gateshead)]

Nicholls, George

Dolan, Charles Joseph

Jones, Leif (Appleby)

Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r)

Nolan, Joseph

Rose, Charles Day

Trevelyan, Charles Philips

Norton, Capt. Cecil William

Rowlands, J.

Ure, Alexander

Nussey, Thomas Willans

Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

Verney, F. W.

O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)

O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

Scott, A H (Asthonunder Lyne)

Wallace, Robert

O'Doherty, Philip

Sears, J. E.

Walsh, Stephen

O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)

Seddon, J.

Walters, John Tudor

O'Hare, Patrick

Shackleton, David James

Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

O'Kelly, James(Roscommon, N

Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.

Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent

O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

Shipman, Dr. John G.

Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan

Parker, James (Halifax)

Silcock, Thomas Ball

Wason, J. Cathcart (Orkney)

Partington, Oswald

Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

Watt, H. Anderson

Paul, Herbert

Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)

Wedgwood, Josiah C.

Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)

Soames, Arthur Wellesley

Weir, James Galloway

Philipps, J Wynford (Pembroke

Spicer, Albert

White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)

Power, Patrick Joseph

Stanger, H. Y.

White, Luke (York, E. R.)

Price, C.E. (Edinb'gh, Central

Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)

Whitehead, Rowland

Price, Robert John (Norfolk, E.

Steadman, W. C.

Whiteley, George (York. W. R.)

Rainy, A. Rolland

Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

Raphael, Herbert H.

Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)

Wilkie, Alexander

Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

Strachey, Sir Edward

Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)

Reddy, M.

Straus, B. S. (Mile End)

Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)

Redmond, J. E. (Waterford)

Sullivan, Donal

Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton

Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)

Summerbell, T.

Woodhouse, Sir J. (Huddersf'd

Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

Sutherland, J. E.

Young, Samuel

Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd

Taylor, John W. (Durham)

Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

Taylor, Theodore C.(Radcliffe)

TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr.

Robinson, S.

Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)

Winfrey and Mr. Soares.

Robson, Sir William Snowdon

Thomasson, Franklin

Roche, John (Galway, East)

Tomkinson, James

NOES.

Acland-Hood, Rt Hn Sir Alex. F.

Doughty, Sir George

Nield, Herbert

Anson, Sir William Reynell

Faber, George Denison (York)

O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens

Anstruther-Gray, Major

Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

Percy, Earl

Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H

Fletcher, J. S.

Remnant, James Farquharson

Balcarrss, Lord

Forster, Henry William

Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

Balfour, Rt. Hn. AJ(City Lond

Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)

Salter, Arthur Clavell

Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)

Gibbs. G. A. (Bristol, West)

Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

Barrie, H. T.(Londonderry, N.)

Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford

Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)

Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks

Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.

Smith, F.E. (Liverpool, Walton)

Beckett, Hon. Gervase

Hay, Hon. Claude George

Starkey, John R.

Bignold, Sir Arthur

Helmsley, Viscount

Stone, Sir Benjamin

Bowles, G. Stewart

Hervey, F.W.F.(Bury S. Edm'ds

Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark

Bridgeman, W. Clive

Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

Thornton, Percy M.

Burnyeat, J. D. W.

Hill, Henry Staveley (Staff'sh.)

Walker, Col. W.H. (Lancashire)

Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.

Hornby, Sir William Henry

Walrond, Hon. Lionel

Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw H.

Houston, Robert Paterson

Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.)

Castlereagh, Viscount

Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H

Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.

Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hon. Col. W

Willoughby de Eresby, Lord'

Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey-

Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.

Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.)

Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)

Lane-Fox, G. R.

Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.

Liddell, Henry

Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George

Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)

Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. AR

Younger, George

Courthope, G. Loyd

Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Dublin, S.)

Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)

M'Calmont, Colonel James

TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir

Craik, Sir Henry

Mason, James F. (Windsor)

Frederick Banbury and

Dalrymple, Viscount

Nicholson, Wm. G.(Petersfield)

Viscount Turnour.

COLONEL KENYON-SLANEYmoved to add to the end of sub-section (1) the words, "desirous of farming in accordance with the custom of the country." He thought he could make clear to the House that there was substance and reason in his Amendment. He would support it by a reference to a case which occurred on his own estate. As the clause
1270
stood compensation might be awarded to the outgoing tenant for improvements he had made to such amount as fairly represented the value of the improvements to the incoming tenant. It was quite conceivable that a specialised tenant, faming on particular lines, might have effected improvements which would be useless to another tenant who farmed

1271
according to the ordinary conditions of husbandry. In fact, instead of improvements, they might be to the incoming tenant a detriment. He wanted to argue that it was impossible in fairness and equity to say that where a tenancy was determined, the landlord in order to get a new tenant should ask for a tenant who would carry on the same system of farming as had been carried on by the outgoing tenant. In his own experience a tenant had gone in for the breeding of thoroughbred racing stock, and the long rows of loose boxes for the reception of stallions and brood mares were of little or no use to the incoming tenant who wished to farm according to the ordinary custom of that part of the country. The sum to be paid as compensation to the outgoing tenant for improvements was fixed by arbitration at approximately £1,500. But he was not particularly anxious to find another tenant who would devote himself to the same line of business, and the land reverted under the new tenant to the ordinary agricultural system of the district. He found, however, that it would be unfair to charge the new tenant a larger sum than £500 for the advantages of the specialised improvements made by the outgoing tenant, and so he practically lost £1,000. Hon. Gentlemen who were really desirous of maintaining and benefiting the system of agriculture which went to increase the fertility of the soil and increase the employment of labour on the land must not expose landowners to the danger of having to deal with this exceptional, specialised kind of farming, but should look at the question from the point of view of the general interests of agriculture and of the country as a whole. Broadly speaking, the farmers of a district were pretty good judges as to how to use their land, and if there had been established a general custom of farming in a particular district, it might be taken for granted that that was the right system. He believed he had established a case for his Amendment, and he hoped it would be accepted in the interest of fair play, of good agriculture, and of supporting the general level of agriculture, and not sacrificing the general level to certain exceptional kinds of farming. The Amendment was perfectly simple. There was no catch about it. It simply
1272
ensured that if a farm was vacated it should be farmed in accordance with the custom prevailing in the district.
LORD TURNOURseconded the Amendment, which he thought was worthy of the consideration of the promoters.
Amendment proposed—
"In page 1, line 21, after the word 'tenant,' to insert the words 'desirous of farming in accordance with the custom of the county.'"—(Col. Kenyon-Slaney.)
Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
MR. SOARESsincerely hoped that they might not have a long debate on this Amendment. The landlord was protected under the Bill, because it provided that there should be paid such sum as fairly represented the value of the improvement to the incoming tenant. If the words of the right hon. Gentleman were added, either they would be unnecessary or they would impose a further restriction upon the tenant farmer. It was perfectly obvious that in the interest of the tenant farmer they could not accept the Amendment, which would hamper him.
MR. LAMBTON (Durham, S.E.)thought the Amendment deserved more consideration than had been given to it. The compensation to be given appeared to be that which would be given to a hypothetical tenant.
MR. BRACEtrusted that the Amendment would not be accepted. He looked upon it as a species of obstruction, and as being made to render it impossible to pass the Bill into law in the present session. As he understood it, the proposal was that unless the farm was farmed in accordance with the custom of the district, the tenant would not have the advantage of the improvement which he had made. If there was one industry more than another which had suffered from the want of development through invention it was agriculture. He was not a tenant farmer himself; nor on the other hand had he any interest

1273
in wringing out of the tenant farmer anything which fairly belonged to him. ["Who is?"] He did not want to be led into the discussion of a side issue, and although he was not a tenant farmer himself he had some common sense, and was entitled to argue on behalf of those he represented. Because agriculture had not been allowed to make full use of the inventive genius of the race it had suffered. If the Amendment were adopted it would be impossible for a tenant farmer, no matter how able or desirous, to strike out a line for himself without endangering his right to compensation.
LORD HELMSLEY (Yorkshire, N.R., Thirsk)protested against they charge which had been made. The position was a most extraordinary one. A Bill dealing with the most important industry in the country had been brought in by young private Members. They had had only two days discussion, and then when an important Amendment was brought forward they were accused of obstruction in order to defeat the measure and to wring further money out of tenants. It had not been the practice of landlords of this country to wring money out of tenants. When the hon. Member talked about inventive genius he would point out "to him the many elaborate machines which were now used in agriculture which he must have seen in his perambulations through his constituency. They objected to giving compensation for something which might be of no good at all as the Bill proposed, and the money paid for which for the purposes of the incoming tenant might as well be thrown into the sea.
MR. NUSSEYrecognised that the Amendment was moved to meet what might be a genuine grievance under the Bill. To take the extreme case of a stud farm, given by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for the Newport Division, it would no doubt be difficult to find an incoming tenant to whom the alterations made would be of value. The cases taken, however, were extreme and exceptional, and would come under the existing law. The words of the Amendment might, moreover, militate
1274
against enterprise and industry. For these reasons he felt great difficulty in supporting the Amendment, though he recognised the motives underlying it. He thought it would come better in Clause 7, where he had put down an Amendment of a similar character so as to allow full liberty for the enterprise of the tenant while maintaining the characteristics of the holding. He would like to see a farmer have full liberty to make what improvements he liked, but at the same time he thought it would be hard for a man who let a farm for one purpose to have returned to him at the end of the tenancy a farm of quite a different character. Therefore, although he could not support this Amendment, he believed it was moved with the idea of meeting a real difficulty. The Bill went much farther than any previous Act and was promoted in favour of a particular class connected with the industry, and that being so, the House ought to look to all the classes concerned in that industry. Their interests were more or less indentical, whether they were landlords, future tenants, or sitting tenants, and they centred in the better cultivation of the land.
SIR H. AUBREY-FLETCHERsaid he rose to support the Amendment of his hon. friend, but he doubted whether he should have intervened at all had it not been for the speech of the hon. Member for South Glamorgan, who represented that portion of Glamorgan in which he him-self was a considerable landed proprietor. He had brought a charge against the landlord party and his hon. friend of endeavouring to wring money out of the occupying tenants. He would only deal with the county of Glamorgan. He thought he ought to do so in justice to the tenantry who occupied lands on the Aubrey Estate in Glamorgan. He did not claim to have one thousand agricultural tenants on his property, which consisted of 8,000 or 9,000 acres in the hon. Member's constituency, but he had a considerable number. He did not think that in any portion of Glamorgan there was any wish among agricultural tenants for a change in the tenure on which they now held. He would remind the House that some years ago there

1275
was a land agitation and a Land Commission in South Wales, but no portion of the tenants in Glamorgan would have anything to do with the agitation, because they were satisfied with the terms of their agreements. The Amendment of his hon. friend provided that the farm should be carried on in accordance with the custom of the country. In the portion of the country to which he alluded the custom was very simple and he did not think the tenants had any wish to alter it. They were thriving and industrious, and they were enabled by their industry to pay their rents with great promptitude. He was sure they had no wish for any change. He thought he was justified on behalf of his friends who were large landowners in the county of Glamorgan in repudiating what the hon. Member had said with regard to tenants having money wrung out of them. He did not wish to go into personal matters and would merely say that in fifteen years he had spent some £20,000 for the benefit of the tenancies.
MR. MUNRO FERGUSONsaid that in Committee this clause was discussed fully, and with a singular amount of freedom, and he did not think that either those who represented the landlords or those who represented the tenants very strongly opposed the clause. In his opinion it was not wise in the interests of agriculture that tenants should be tied up too tightly by their agreements. He thought they needed to have some freedom and initiative as regarded the cultivation of the land. The purposes for which the farm was to be used was very much determined by the character of the buildings and that was a matter which was left to the discretion of the owner by this Bill. [Dissent.] He thought it was, but if it was found when Clause 7 was discussed that the repairs did not mean "repairs" but reconstruction, he would be very glad to join in making it clear that the owner should have full discretion as to the character of the buildings. If he was right, the buildings, fences, roads, and so forth, permanent fixtures, remained in the discretion of
1276
the owner, and that was a great security against the whole character of the holding being changed without his consent. Therefore he thought it was not necessary to discuss some of these points at length. It was of course impossible to discuss the clause without having an eye on all the other clauses, but he thought each clause as it came should be discussed on its merits. In his opinion this clause was in the interest of agriculture and should be so regarded.
MR. GEORGE FABERfelt quite sure that most Members-were in favour of a genuine farmer obtaining compensation for genuine improvements that he had made. What they wished to guard against was paying for unnecessary improvements made by what he would call, for want of a better term, a fancy farmer. And this became more apparent when they looked at Clause 7. Under the law as it stood at present the planting of fruit trees did require the consent of the landlord, but under this Bill as drawn that consent was not required. Let him put a case. A tenant of a speculative turn of mind took a farm of 200 acres, and thinking part of it was suitable for fruit farming, laid down at a cost of £60 an acre 20 acres of that farm to fruit. When he left the farm the value of the improvement might be nothing. In fact the landlord might find it difficult to get a tenant who wanted 20 acres of fruit trees on the farm. Was that an improvement for which the landlord ought to pay compensation? Did they not rather desire to encourage genuine improvements of the land of the farm? Looking at the matter from that point of view, he agreed with the Amendment, because he believed it tended in that direction. If the House did not find itself able to accept the Amendment, he agreed with the hon. Member for Durham that the best course would be to change the word "an" to "the," which would have the effect of removing the difficulty of arriving at the value of the improvement. The value of the improvement to "an incoming tenant" was a problematical value, because no tenant

1277
might be found, whereas the value to the "incoming tenant" was real. Therefore, if they substituted the word "the" for the word "an" they would shut out and guard against the possibility of the landlord paying for an improvement which might not only be of no use, but possibly be harmful to him.
MR. SOARESrose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put.
Question put "That the Question be now put."
The House divided:—Ayes, 270; Noes, 68. (Division List No. 168.)

AYES.

Abraham, William (Rhondda)

Dillon, John

Joyce, Michael

Acland, Francis Dyke

Dodd, W. H.

Kearley, Hudson E.

Adkins, W. Ryland

Dolan, Charles: Joseph

Kekewich, Sir George

Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)

Donelan, Captain A.

Kelley, George D.

Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

Duffy, William J.

Kennedy, Vincent Paul

Ashton, Thomas Gair

Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness)

Kilbride, Denis

Astbury John Meir

Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

Kincaid-Smith, Captain

Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

Duncan, Robert Lanark, Govan

King, Alfred John (Knutsford)

Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)

Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster

Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

Dunne, Major E. Martin (Walsall

Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

Barnard, E. B.

Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)

Lambert, George

Barran, Rowland Hirst

Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

Lamont, Norman

Barry, E. (Cork, S.)

Esmonde, Sir Thomas

Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

Beale, W. P.

Evans, Samuel T.

Layland-Barratt, Francis

Beaumont, W. C. B. (Hexham)

Everett, R. Lacey

Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras, E.)

Beck, A. Cecil

Farrell, James Patrick

Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington

Bellairs, Carlyon

Fenwick, Charles

Lehmann, R. C.

Bennett, E. N.

Ferens, T. R.

Lever, W.H. (Cheshire, Wirral)

Bertram, Julius

Ferguson, R. C. Munro

Lewis, John Herbert

Bethell, T. R. (Essex, 'Maldon)

Ffrench, Peter

Lough, Thomas

Billson, Alfred

Fiennes, Hon. Eustace

Lundon, W.

Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire

Flavin, Michael Joseph

Lupton, Arnold

Blake, Edward

Flynn, James Christopher

Luttrell, Hugh Fownes

Boland, John

Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter

Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)

Brace, William

Fullerton, Hugh

Macdonald, J. M(Falkirk Burghs

Branch, James

Gill, A. H.

Mackarness, Frederic C.

Bright, J. A.

Ginnell, L.

MaeVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.

Brodie, H. C.

Glendinning, R. G.

MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)

Brunner, J.F.L. (Lanes., Leigh)

Glover, Thomas

M'Callum, John M.

Brunner, Sir John T. (Cheshire)

Greenwood, Hamar (York)

M'Crae, George

Bryce. Rt. Hn. James (Aberdeen

Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

Burke, E. Haviland-

Gulland, John W.

M'Micking, Major G.

Burnyeat, J. D. W.

Halpin, J.

Maddison, Frederick

Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas

Hammond, John

Manfield, Harry (Northants)

Cameron, Robert

Hardy, George A (Suffolk)

Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)

Cawley, Frederick

Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)

Marnham, F. J.

Channing, Francis Allston

Harrington, Timothy

Meagher, Michael

Cheetham, John Frederick

Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

Menzies, Walter

Clarke, C. Goddard

Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

Micklem, Nathaniel

Cleland, J. W.

Hayden, John Patrick

Molteno, Percy Alport

Clough, W.

Hazel, Dr. A. E.

Mond, A.

Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.)

Hazleton, Richard

Montagu, E. S.

Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)

Hedges, A. Paget

Mooney, J. J

Condon, Thomas Joseph

Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)

Corbett, CH(Sussex,(E. Grinst'd

Henderson, J.M. (Aberdeen, W.)

Morse, L. L.

Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

Henry, Charles S.

Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

Cowan, W. H.

Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)

Murnaghan George

Crean, Eugene

Higham, John Sharp

Murphy, John

Crombie, John William

Hogan, Michael

Murray, James

Crossley, William J.

Hope, W. Bateman (Somerset, N

Myer, Horatio

Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)

Howard, Hon. Geoffrey

Napier, T. B.

Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

Hutton, Alfred Eddison

Nicholls, George

Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.

Hyde, Clarendon

Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncaster

Delany, William

Jardine, Sir J.

Nolan, Joseph

Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway

Johnson, John (Gateshead)

Norman, Henry

Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)

Jones, Leif (Appleby)

Norton, Capt. Cecil William

Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.

Jones, William(Carnarvonshire

Nussey, Thomas Willans

Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.

Jowett, F. W.

O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.

Rogers, F. E. Newman

Torrance, A. M.

O Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

Rose, Charles Day

Toulmin, George

O'Doherty, Philip

Rowlands, J.

Ure, Alexander

O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)

Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)

Verney, F. W.

O'Grady, J.

Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)'

O'Hare, Patrick

Scott, AH (Ashton under Lyne)

Wallace, Robert

O'Malley, William

Sears, J. E.

Walsh, Stephen

O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

Seaverns, J. H.

Walters, John Tudor

Parker, James (Halifax)

Seddon, J.

Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent)

Partington, Oswald

Shackleton, David James

Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)

Paul, Herbert

Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.

Wason, J. Cathcart (Orkney)

Pearson, Sir W.D.(Colchester)

Shipman, Dr. John G.

Waterlow, D. S.

Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)

Silcock, Thomas Ball

Watt, H. Anderson

Philipps, J Wynford (Pembroke)

Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

Wedgwood, Josiah C

Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)

Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.

Weir, James Galloway

Power, Patrick Joseph

Snowden, P.

White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)

Price, F. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)

Soames, Arthur Wellesley

White, Luke (York, E. R.)

Price, Robert J. (Norfolk, E.)

Spicer, Albert

White, Patrick (Meath, North)

Rainy, A. Rolland

Stanger, H. Y.

Whitehead, Rowland

Raphael, Herbert H.

Stanley, Hn A Lyulph (Chesh.)

Whiteley, George (York, W.R.>

Rea. Russell (Gloucester)

Steadman, W. C.

Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

Reddy, M.

Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

Wilkie, Alexander

Redmond, John E. (Waterford

Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)

Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarthen)

Renton, Major Leslie

Strachey, Sir Edward

Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)

Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mptn

Straus, B. S. (Mile End)

Wilson, Hn. C.H.W. (Hull, W)

Ridsdale, E. A.

Sullivan, Donal

Wilson, J W. (Worcestersh. N.)

Roberts, Charles H.(Lincoln)

Summer bell, T.

Wilson, P. W.(St. Pancras, S.)

Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

Sutherland, J. E.

Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

Robertson, Sir G. Scott(Bradf'd

Taylor, John AV. (Durham)

Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Huddersf'd)

Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)

Young, Samuel

Robinson, S.

Thomas, Sir A(Glamorgan, E.)

Robson, Sir William Snowdon

Thomasson Franklin

TELLERS FOB THE AYES—Mr.

Roche, John (Galway, East)

Tomkinson, James

Soares and Mr. Winfrey

NOES.

Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn Sir Alex. F.

Fletcher, J. S.

O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens

Anstruther-Gray, Major

Forster, Henry William

Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlingt'n

Arkwright, John Stanhope

Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)

Remnant, James Farquharson

Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H

Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

Balcarres, Lord

Haddock, George R.

Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East

Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (City Lond

Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford

Smith, F.E. (Liverpool, Walton)

Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)

Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.

Starkey, John R.

Banbury, Sir Frederick Gerorge

Hay, Hon. Claude George

Stone, Sir Benjamin

Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester

Helmsley, Viscount

Thomson, W. Mitchell (Lanark)

Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks

Hervey, F. W. F. (BuryS. Edm'ds

Thornton, Percy M.

Beckett, Hon. Gervase

Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

Turnour, Viscount

Bignold, Sir Arthur

Hill, Henry Staveley (Staff'sh.)

Valentia, Viscount

Bridgeman, W. Clive

Hills, J. W.

Walker, Col. W.H. (Lancashire).

Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.

Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

Walrond, Hon. Lionel

Castlereagh, Viscount

Hornby, Sir William Henry

Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.)

Cave. George

Houston, Robert Paterson

Whitbread, Howard

Cecil. Lord John P. Joicey-

Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H

Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)

Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)

Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.

Willoughby de Eresby, Lord

Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)

Lane-Fox, G. R.

Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

Craik, Sir Henry

Liddell, Henry

Younger, George

Cross, Alexander

Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. R.

Dalrymple, Viscount

M'Calmont, Colonel James

TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

Faber, George Denison (York)

Mason, James F. (Windsor)

Colonel Kenyon-Slaney

Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

Nicholson, Wm. G, (Petersfield

and Mr. Courthope.

Question put accordingly, "That those words be inserted in the Bill."
The House divided:—Ayes, 67; Noes, 269. (Division List No. 169.)

AYES.

Acland-Hood, Rt Hn. Sir Alex. F.

Balcarres, Lord

Baring, Hn. Guy (Winchester)

Anstruther-Gray, Major

Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (City Lon.

Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks

Arkwright, John Stanhope

Balfour, Capt. C.B. (Hornsey)

Beckett, Hon. Gervase

Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H.

Banbury, Sir Frederick George

Bignold, Sir Arthur

Bridgeman, W. Clive

Hay, Hon. Claude George

Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.

Helmsley, Viscount

Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)

Castlereagh, Viscount

Hervey, F.W. F. (BuryS Edm'ds

Smith, F.E.(Liverpool, Walton)

Cave, George

Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

Starkey, John R.

Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey

Hill, Henry Staveley (Staff'sh.)

Stone, Sir Benjamin

Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)

Hills, J. W.

Thomson, W. Mitchell (Lanark)

Craig, Captain James(Down E.

Hornby, Sir William Henry

Thornton, Percy M.

Craik, Sir Henry

Houston, Robert Paterson

Turnour, Viscount

Dalrymple, Viscount

Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H

Valentia, Viscount

Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan

Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm

Walker, Col. W. H(Lancashire)

Faber, George Denison (York)

Lane-Fox, G. R.

Walrond, Hon. Lionel

Fell, Arthur

Liddell, Henry

Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.)

Finch, Rt. Hn. George H.

Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A.R

Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)

Fletcher. J.S.

M'Calmont, Colonel James

Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

Forster, Henry William

Marks, H. H. (Kent)

Younger, George

Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)

Mason, James F. (Windsor)

Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield

TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

Haddock, George R.

O'Neill, Hn. Robert Torrens

Colonel Kenyon-Slaney and

Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford

Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlington

Mr. Courthope.

Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B

Remnant, James Farquharson

NOES.

Abraham, William (Rhondda)

Crossley, William J.

Henderson, J.M.(Aberdeen, W.

Acland, Francis Dyke

Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)

Henry, Charles S.

Adkins, W. Ryland

Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

Herbert, T. Arnold(Wycombe)

Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)

Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)

Higham, John Sharp

Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

Delany, William

Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

Ashton, Thomas Gair

Devlin, Charles Ramsay(Galw'y

Hogan, Michael

Astbury, John Meir

Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.

Hope, W. Bateman(Somerset, N.

Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

Dillon, John

Howard, Hon. Geoffrey

Baring, Godfrey(Isle of Wight)

Dodd, W. H.

Hutton, Alfred Eddison

Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

Dolan, Charles Joseph

Hyde, Clarendon

Barnard, E. B.

Donelan, Captain A.

Jardine, Sir J.

Barran, Rowland Hirst

Duffy, William J.

Johnson, John (Gateshead)

Barry, E. (Cork, S-)

Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness

Jones, Leif (Appleby)

Beale, W. P.

Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

Jones, William (Carnarvonshire

Beck, A. Cecil

Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

Jowett, F. W.

Bellairs, Carlyon

Dunne, Major E. Martin (Walsall)

Joyce, Michael

Bennett, E. N.

Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)

Kearley, Hudson E.

Bertram, Julius

Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

Kekewich, Sir George

Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)

Esmonde, Sir Thomas

Kelley, George D.

Billson, Alfred

Evans, Samuel T.

Kennedy, Vincent Paul

Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire

Everett, R. Lacey

Kilbride, Denis

Blake, Edward

Farrell, James Patrick

Kincaid-Smith, Captain

Boland, John

Fenwick, Charles

King, Alfred John (Knutsford)

Brace, William

Ferens, T. R.

Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominst'r

Branch, James

Ferguson, R. C. Munro

Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

Bright, J. A.

Ffrench, Peter

Lambert, George

Brodie, H. C.

Fiennes, Hon. Eustace

Lamont, Norman

Brunner, J.F.L.(Lancs., Leigh)

Flavin, Michael Joseph

Layland-Barratt, Francis

Buckmaster, Stanley O.

Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter

Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras, E.

Burke, E. Haviland-

Fullerton, Hugh

Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington

Burnyeat, J. D. W.

Gill, A. H.

Lehmann, R. C.

Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas

Ginnell, L.

Lever, A. Levy(Essex, Harwich)

Byles, William Pollard

Glendinning, R. G

Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral)

Cameron, Robert

Glover, Thomas

Lewis, John Herbert

Cawley, Frederick

Greenwood, Hamar (York)

Lough, Thomas

Channing, Francis Allston

Griffith, Ellis J.

Luddon, W.

Cheetham, John Frederick

Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

Lupton, Arnold

Clarke, C. Goddard

Gulland, John W.

Luttrell, Hugh Fownes

Cleland, J. W.

Halpin, J.

Lynch, H. B.

Clough, W.

Hammond, John

Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)

Coats, Sir T. Glen(Renfrew W.)

Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)

Macdonald, J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs)

Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)

Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)

Mackarness, Frederic C.

Condon, Thomas Joseph

Harrington, Timothy

MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.

Corbett, C.H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd

Hart-Davies, T.

MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)

Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

M'Callum, John M.

Cowan, W. H.

Hayden, John Patrick

M'Crae, George

Crean, Eugene

Hazel, Dr. A. E.

M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

Crombie, John William

Hazleton, Richard

M'Micking, Major G.

Cross, Alexander

Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

Maddison, Frederick

1282

1283

Manfield, Harry (Northants.)

Rainy, A. Rolland

Sutherland, J. E.

Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)

Raphael, Herbert H.

Taylor, John W. (Durham)

Marnham, F. J.

Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)

Meagher, Michael

Reddy, M.

Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)

Menzies, Walter

Redmond, John E. (Waterford

Thomasson, Franklin

Micklem, Nathaniel

Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mptn

Tomkinson, James

Molteno, Percy Alport

Ridesdale, E. A.

Torrance, A. M.

Mond, A.

Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)

Toulmin, George

Montagu, E. S.

Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

Trevelyan, Charles Philips

Mooney, J. J.

Robertson, Sir G. Scott(Bradf'rd

Ure, Alexander

Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen

Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

Verney, F. W.

Morse, L. L.

Robinson, S.

Walker. H. De R. (Leicester)

Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

Robson, Sir William Snowdon

Wallace, Robert

Murnaghan, George

Roche, John (Galway, East)

Walsh, Stephen

Murphy, John

Rogers, F. E. Newman

Walters, John Tudor

Murray, James

Rose, Charles Day

Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent

Myer, Horatio

Rowlands, J.

Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.

Napier, T. B.

Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland

Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)

Nicholls, George

Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney

Nicholson, Charles N. (Don caster

Schwann, Chas. E. (Manchester)

Waterlow, D. S.

Nolan, Joseph

Scott, A.H.(Ashton under Lyne

Watt, H. Anderson

Norman, Henry

Sears, J. E.

Wedgwood, Josiah C.

Norton, Capt. Cecil William

Seaverns, J. H.

Weir, James Galloway

O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

Seddon, J.

White, J.D. (Dumbartons'ire

O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.)

Shackleton, David James

White, Luke (York, E.R.)

O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

Shaw, Rt. Hn. T. (Hawick B.)

White, Patrick (Meath, North)

O'Doherty, Philip

Shipman, Dr. John G.

Whitehead, Rowland

O'Donnell U, T. (Kerry, W.)

Silcock, Thomas Ball

Whiteley, George (York, W.R.)

O'Grady, J.

Sloan, Thomas Henry

Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

O'Hare, Patrick

Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.

Wilkie, Alexander

O'Malley, William

Snowden, P.

Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarth'n

O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

Soames, Arthur Wellesley

Wilson, Hon. C. H. W. (Hull, W

Parker, James (Halifax)

Spicer, Albert

Wilson, J.W.(Worcestersh., N.)

Partington, Oswald

Stanger, H. Y.

Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)

Paul, Herbert

Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.

Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

Pearson, Sir W. D. (Colchester)

Steadman, W. C.

Woodhouse, Sir J.T (Huddersf'd

Pease, J. A. (Saffron. Walden)

Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

Young, Samuel

Philipps, J. Wynford (Pembroke

Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)

Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)

Strachey, Sir Edward

TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.

Power, Patrick Joseph

Straus, B. S. (Mile End)

Soares and Mr. Winfrey.

Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)

Sullivan, Donal

Price, Robert John (Norfolk, E.

Summer bell, T.

MR. ABEL SMITHmoved to leave out sub-section (2). This sub-section substituted for the procedure laid down in the Agricultural Holdings Act of 1900 an entirely new arrangement which made it compulsory in the event of arbitration under the Agricultural Holdings Act for the reference to be to a single arbitrator. The principal object of the Act of 1900 was to make the procedure under previous Acts more simple and less expensive, and it would be generally admitted by those who had had practical experience that that object had been attained. No doubt the promoters of the present Bill would claim that this sub-section would carry the object further by the substitution of a single arbitrator. How were these arbitrations carried out under present arrangements? The Act of 1900 required that the arbitration, unless the parties otherwise agreed, should
1284
be by a single arbitrator, so that either party concerned could, if he liked, insist on having a single arbitrator. He believed agriculturists very much preferred that that arrangement should continue, and he ventured to think there were very good grounds for holding that view. He was sorry the representative of the Board of Agriculture was not at the moment in the House, because hon. Gentlemen would remember that only a short time ago the hon. Baronet referred to the representative character of the Central Chamber of Agriculture, and said that anything the Chamber expressed should have great weight. When this particular matter came up for discussion at the Central Chamber of Agriculture, a Resolution was carried nem. con. objecting to this sub-section. The present arrangement was considered to be satisfactory, but in the case of a single arbitrator each party must have

1285
a representative or advocate to present his case to the, arbitrator. The landlord probably had his agent who might or might not be a gentleman learned in the law, and it was-absolutely necessary for the outgoing tenant who was the other party to have some expert gentleman to advise him and get up his case. In other words, there would be three experts engaged on the work. Where, however, each party appointed an arbitrator, a third person was only called in as umpire in any matter on which the arbitrators could not agree. The result was that in a great many cases the umpire was never called in, and therefore only two experts had to be paid for instead of three, as would always be the case if the system of a single arbitrator were made compulsory. One of the most experienced valuers in the country had written stating his agreement with the view which he was now putting forward. A preponderating number of farmers' associations in the country had expressed themselves perfectly satisfied with the present arrangement, and against their freedom of action being taken away by its being made compulsory for a single arbitrator to be appointed in each case. He therefore moved the omission of this sub-section.
MR. LAURENCE HARDYseconded the Motion, because he thought this was one of those questions in which it was very desirable the House should see that this Bill was in accordance with the opinion of those interested, and also in accordance with true economy. On neither of those grounds did he think any defence could be made for the retention of this subsection. So far as the opinion of the tenants themselves was concerned, and putting aside the question of the landlords, who, he was afraid, were not often mentioned in debates on this Bill, he would point out that his hon. friend had given a good deal of evidence against this proposal, and they might justly ask the promoters of this Bill to bring forward proof that the tenants were desirous of obtaining this sub-section. So far as he had been able to ascertain an opinion—and it was very much Confirmed by the reports that had
1286
come to the Central Chamber of Agriculture from farmers' clubs—the tenants did not look upon this provision with either enthusiasm or interest, but, in fact, they very much preferred the present system. That being so, they ought to have very strong proof that the system proposed to be substituted was a better one before making the change. As to the question of economy, he had not been able to ascertain any views to show that this proposal would effect economy. First of all the single arbitrator would have to be quite a different type of person to the arbitrators at present appointed. He would have to be appointed more or less officially, and he would become something in the nature of a County Court Judge, a man set apart who would have to be paid either out of rates or taxes. Before him would appear the experts who would represent the landlord and the tenant. There was very little prospect in a country district of one man being mutually appointed by landlord and tenant to decide on these questions. Each party in almost every case liked to have his own view put forward. As a rule mutual compromise came in, and the result was very easy to arrive at without much expense under the present system. The establishments of a sort of court, on the other hand, might lead to further persons being introduced into the proceedings, because instead of his agent being employed the landlord very probably would have a legal gentleman to advise. Instead, therefore, of simplicity and economy it would mean the establishment of a land court and an increase of expenditure.
Amendment proposed—
"In page 1, line 22, to leave out sub-section (2) of Clause 1."—(Mr. Abel Smith.)
Question proposed: "That the words proposed to be left out, to 'contract' in page 1, line 24, stand part of the Bill."
MR. SOARESsincerely hoped that the gloomy forebodings of the hon. Gentleman who had just sat down would not be realised. The whole sub-sect on was really a very simple one; it raised on y one small question

1287
and that was the appointment of a single arbitrator in all cases. He might point out that sub-section (5) of Clause 2 of the Act of 1900 provided that an arbitration should, unless the parties otherwise agreed, be before a single arbitrator. All that this subsection did was to omit the words "unless the parties otherwise agree." Already it was conceded that a single arbitrator, whenever possible, was advisable. He might say that the Board of Agriculture was strongly in favour of this subsection, and as that Department had a large knowledge of procedure its opinion was surely worth having on this matter. The system of two arbitrators did not work out well so far as the Board of Agriculture was concerned. When it was a question of two arbitrators the Board had power to make the appointment in default of one of the parties making it. It found that when it made the appointment the man appointed did not act in the capacity of a judicial personage, but more as an advocate, and what was wanted was a judicial personage to act as far as possible. A Scottish case came under the notice of the Board of Agriculture a short time ago in which several points of procedure were raised. One was whether the arbitration should be governed by the Agricultural Holdings Act or by the agreement in the lease, and another point was whether the arbitration should take place before a single arbitrator or two arbitrators. There was great delay in dealing with the matter, and an application was made to the Board, and before the Board could finish the necessary correspondence and make the appointment considerable further delay was occasioned. Then the landlord took proceedings in the Court of Session, and compensation was not obtained until nearly two years after the application was made to the Board. The tenant had to pay £156 for landlord's costs, and upwards of £200 for his own solicitor's costs. That was the kind of thing they wanted to avoid in the future. They wanted to simplify the procedure, and they thought the appointment of an arbitrator would do that, because as the case he had mentioned showed, there was often a difficulty as to whether on the facts of the case there ought to be one arbitrator or two. There could
1288
be no doubt that with two arbitrators the possibility of technical points being raised was increased, and there were-also more risks of mistake in procedure, and in that case the whole arbitration was liable to be vitiated. If there was a single arbitrator his status would be improved. He would become more of a judicial personage, and his sense of responsibility would be increased. Of course it would not prevent an amicable arrangement being made between landlord and tenant as at present. It would be only when they found that they could not come to terms that the case would come before the single arbitrator. With regard to the saving of expense, on which he put a great deal of emphasis, obviously there must be a saving to have one instead of two arbitrators. For the reasons he had given he sincerely hoped the House would retain the sub-section.
MR. LAURENCE HARDY: Will the hon. Gentleman give us some evidence of the desire on the part of tenants for the sub-section?
MR. GARDNERsaid the hon. Member in charge of the Bill had called this a very small question, but there might be much mischief in a small thing. The first paragraph in the memorandum to the Bill stated that its object was to extend, cheapen, and simplify the law of compensation, etc. How it could be said to cheapen or simplify the law passed his comprehension. This Bill was full of opportunities for litigation and controversy, and, indeed, invited them, and if anything could add to the cost of the troubles that were certain to arise it was this sub-section. It made compulsory one method of deciding disputes between persons engaged in agriculture. What farmers feared was the amount of costs in dealing with their business. The hon. Member in charge of the Bill had said that landlord and tenant could amicably settle any questions that arose. On the termination of a tenancy they were bound to be represented by someone. The statement by one hon. Member that he was under the impression that the Government proposed to get a higher class of arbitrators was some reflection on the arbitrators and valuers

1289
who at present conducted the business. The arbitrators in his county, and he believed in most other parts, were perfectly competent to settle any disputes. The proposal to have one arbitrator appeared a very simple thing, but it was well known that it would cost tenant farmers and landlords a great deal more and involve more trouble. So far as he could gather the only persons who would get any benefit out of the Bill were lawyers, arbitrators, and expert witnesses. There was quite enough to contend with in agriculture at present, but if they were to have a crowd of that class of persons let loose upon them he did not know what agriculture would come to. They were to have a high class of arbitrator. He should like to know how many guineas a day he was to receive. Possibly he would come from the Board of Agriculture, and what would he know of the customs of the different counties? He would need to have expert evidence before him, and the experts would be likely to charge more than if they were working quietly between landlord and tenant. Customs in the counties differed so widely that an arbitrator coming from a distance would be forced to have local persons to advise him, and these would have to be examined and cross-examined by other expensive persons. The existing state of things had worked practically without any difficulty or friction. They appointed between them an umpire who was seldom called in. He had it on the authority of a large agent that an umpire was called in only in about one case in fifteen.
COLONEL HARRISON-BROADLEY (Yorkshire, E.R., Howdenshire)said that as the representative of one of the largest agricultural constituencies, and as one who represented perhaps as many farmers and agriculturists as any man in the House, he thought he ought to be allowed to say a word or two on the question. There was a feeling that the clause had nothing in it except that which would cause ill-feeling and expense, and also the calling in of those who were not interested in the greatest industry of the country. He had had many communications and conversations with agriculturists since the Bill was first brought forward, and
1290
everyone who knew agriculturists and farmers had all been of the opinion that Sub-section (2) of Clause 1 should be left out. They did not know whether the arbitrators were to be men of the county in which the farm was situated, and who would thus become-acquainted with the custom of the county; but at the present time they certainly had no trouble whatever in settling matters between the outgoing and incoming tenants, and he considered it would do the greatest injury if they went outside the county and took in men appointed by the Board of Agriculture to settle the question. He had great pleasure in supporting the Amendment.
MR. EVERETTsaid he found himself in agreement with hon. Gentlemen opposite, and he believed his friends in regard to this sub-section had made a mistake. There was not the smallest desire on the part of the farmers for any alteration in the present method of arbitration when farms changed hands. The landlord and the tenant chose representatives who were familiar with the nature of the land and the local customs. They went over the farm, and they generally arrived at a satisfactory settlement. If necessary, they referred to an umpire, but that was a comparatively rare occurrence. The present method of conducting valuations entirely satisfied farmers, and it was as cheap as any mode which might be conceived. The proposed sub-section would bring in the thin end of officialism. They did not want anyone from the Board of Agriculture interfering with their decisions. There was a great deal of good work which Parliament could do, but surely it should not interfere where there was no occasion, and he was sure both the farmers and landlords of the county from which he came wished they would leave them alone as regards their methods of making valuations.
MR. MITCHELL-THOMSON (Lanarkshire, N.W.)said he wished to ask a question with regard to the construction of the clause. Some remarks on this point had been made on the first sub-section, but it seemed to him that the construction and drafting of the second subsection was far more serious than the

1291
first. He should like an explanation of what was meant by "this Act." Did the words mean the present Bill? The hon. Member for the Barnstaple Division said it was intended to mean the Agricultural Act, 1900, and that this section was inserted in place of the section which had been repealed. He was under the impression that they were talking about the Agricultural Holdings Acts, 1883 and 1900. He did not know what was meant by the Agricultural Acts, 1883 and 1900, and as a matter of fact there were no such Acts. He understood what was meant by the Agricultural Holdings (England) or (Scotland) Act. He did not think the words "this Act "could be construed as meaning the Act of 1900.
MR. SOARES: Those words mean this Bill.
MR. MITCHELL-THOMSONthought that in that case the House was entitled to some explanation of why in the first sub-section "this Act" meant the Act of 1900 and why in the second sub-section the same words meant the Bill under discussion. Did the hon. Member still adhere to that position?
ME. SOARES: Yes.
MR. MITCHELL-THOMSONsaid that was all the more reason why they should oppose this proposal.
MR. MUNRO FERGUSONsaid there was nothing in the Bill which would lead them to suppose that the Board of Agriculture would send down an arbitrator who was not conversant with the district. In Scotland they were supposed to be very careful in their expenditure, and he might point out that the system of appointing one valuator in Scotland had grown up very much in consequence of that national desire to save unnecessary cost, and also to obtain better justice.
LORD TURNOURsaid as a tenant farmer perhaps he might be allowed to say a few words on this sub-section. In the first instance he heartily agreed with everything that had fallen from the hon. Member for the Woodbridge division. He thought it a somewhat remarkable thing that Mr. Pretyman, who formerly represented
1292
that division, was a strong opponent of this principle, and that the hon. Gentleman who now represented the division—and who probably looked at the question from a wholly different point of view—was also a strong opponent. It seemed, indeed, to be a strong argument against the sub-section remaining as it was at the present time. It seemed to him that it would merely put upon agriculture a greater burden than that which it had to carry at the present time. He sincerely hoped those in charge of the Bill would note what had been said, and especially to what had fallen from the hon. Member for the Woodbridge Division. No doubt the promoters of the Bill, in drafting the clause, had excellent intentions, but he could only think it would put an even greater burden upon agriculture than that industry carried at the present time, and it seemed to him that the whole clause might have been drawn by an economist of the Poplar guardian type.
MR. WALTER LONGsaid they desired to lay down the principle that a single arbitrator should be the preferable course to adopt and that only in the event of a person desiring to have two arbitrators should that procedure be adopted. The proposal in the Bill was that one arbitrator only should be appointed. The hon. Member for Leith Burghs had said that for reasons of economy they preferred in Scotland to have one arbitrator, but it was manifest that in England and Wales they did not prefer that system. Under the Act of 1900 it was laid down that the arbitration was to be before a single arbitrator if the parties agreed on that course. It was only when the landlord and tenant agreed that there should not be a single one that two arbitrators were called in. The farmers of England and Wales did not desire a system which was contrary to their present practice. Nothing had been said to justify interference with the British tenant farmer in carrying on his own business in his own way.
MR. BERTRAMthought the clause effected a distinct saving of a step, and, therefore, he should support it. Under existing I law when the tenant vacated his holding

1293
he and the landlord each appointed a valuer. If these failed to agree arbitrators were appointed, and the two valuers almost invariably became the two arbitrators. Agreement being still impossible these two appointed an umpire, and if they could not agree upon him the Board of Agriculture appointed the umpire. Under the clause now proposed the Umpire disappeared, his place being filled by the single arbitrator, and a saving of one step in the existing process of valuation was thereby effected.
MR. COURTHOPEsaid that when the lion Gentleman in charge of the Bill made his speech in opposition to the Amendment he used an expression the meaning of which he thought he did not quite realise, viz., that a single arbitrator would be a judicial personage. That was so, and it was just because he would be a judicial personage that it would be necessary for Doth parties to have somebody to represent them before him. The result of that would be that there would be three to be paid for instead of, as was usually the case at present, two only, for in the majority of cases under the existing law an agreement was come to, and the expense of an umpire, or third arbitrator, avoided. He thought, therefore, even according to their own arguments, those who supported the Bill should realise that it would be better for this sub-section to be struck out.
MR. CAWLEYwas of opinion that the Bill would be improved by the acceptance of the Amendment. The promoters had not attempted to prove that anyone had urgently demanded the alteration, and the present law appeared to be giving satisfaction to everybody. No one could say that the tenants had a grievance and everybody liked the present procedure. Why, therefore, should the House be asked to sanction a new procedure to displace one which had proved so eminently satisfactory? He thought his hon. friend would be wise if he accepted the Amendment.
MR. HICKS BEACHsaid that the hon. Member for Barnstaple had argued that the principle of the single arbitrator was accepted in 1900, but he had ignored the stipulation
1294
that it should be departed from if the two parties did not agree to it. The Act of 1900 was very different from this Bill, because what the arbitrator had to decide under that Act was only in regard to improvements to the soil. Under this Bill, however, the arbitrator had to decide as to the value of certain improvements made in the soil itself, whether the game had done harm to the crops, whether the buildings had been so altered and transformed as to be of any real value to the holding, and other matters. The arbitrator would also have to be a person with a judicial mind, because he would have to decide whether a disturbance had been reasonable or unreasonable. He thought the Board of Agriculture would have great difficulty in securing persons of this extraordinary character, and they would have to pay them large fees for their services. He agreed that what the farmers wanted on this occasion was not such proposals as these; but, as a witness had remarked before the Royal Commission on Agriculture in 1897, "the only security they wanted was security from the law makers."
MR. COURTENAY WARNERthought the Amendment would effect some slight improvement in the working of the Bill. It would be advisable if his hon. friends, the promoters of the Bill, would sacrifice the provision now in question in deference to the wishes of the farmers of the country, who were distinctly opposed to the alteration in the existing law. The question was discussed by the Central Chamber of Agriculture, and it appeared then that the farmers were opposed to any change in the law.
MR. SEDDONsaid the hon. Member in charge of the Bill would be well advised if he made the sub-section more stringent. The right hon. baronet the Member for the Lewes Division had said that the tenant farmers in Glamorganshire were satisfied, and did not wish any interference between themselves and the landlords. That might be perfectly true so far as South Glamorgan was concerned, but it was not so with respect to other parts of the country. The right hon. baronet's speech reminded

1295
him of the Chinese coolies who asked to be flogged in order to prove how beneficial were the conditions under which they lived in South Africa. According to the right hon. baronet no improvement was possible, and any effort at improvement would be repudiated so far as South Glamorgan was concerned. He had in his hand an agreement made in Lancashire which proved conclusively, so far as that county was concerned, that the landlords had certainly not only been able to look after themselves, but had taken good care that the tenant should be robbed of his rights. ["No."] He was going by the agreement which laid down the condition that the tenant should live in the farmhouse. ["Read."] A condition of the agreement was that the tenant should live in the farmhouse and keep it in a state of repair. The hon. and gallant Member for the Newport division of Shropshire would have the House to believe that if a tenant put up all manner of buildings, especially for the breeding of race-horses, compensation could be claimed in respect of them whether the incoming tenant wanted them or not. That was not the meaning of the clause. What the clause was intended to secure to the tenant farmer was compensation for unexhausted improvements. There could be no doubt that many of the tenant farmers of this country were subject to the caprice, and sometimes the political bias, of their landlords.
MR. GUESTasked whether the hon. Gentleman was in order in discussing the whole field of the Bill, or whether he should discuss the sub-section only.
MR. SPEAKER: The sub-section only. The hon. Member is rather tending towards a Second Reading speech. He must confine himself to the question of the retention of the particular subsection.
MR. SEDDONsaid he thought that the provision as to the single arbitrator should be compulsory. In his own constituency many tenants had been compelled to leave their homes, and they had refused to accept the offices of the arbitrator, knowing that there was a certain amount of sympathy existing between landlords.
1296
He was not surprised at that after hearing the speeches from both sides of the House to-day. He could quite understand that a tenant who, for political reasons, had offended his landlord, and got notice to quit, should prefer to leave his case in the hands of the landlord, because he knew that the power of that landlord might be used against him when he applied for another holding. [" Oh! "] He knew that home truths were resented by the persons affected. He sincerely trusted that the hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill would recognise that the measure was in the interest of a class too long under the power of landlords.
CAPTAIN BALFOURsaid he should not like it to go out that the Scottish Chamber of Agriculture was absolutely in favour of the Bill. He had before him the Aberdeen Journal of 16th June containing a Report of a meeting of the Chamber of Agriculture held on the previous day. A proposa to approve of the clause in regard to the single arbitrator gave rise to a good dea of discussion, and an Amendment approving of two arbitrators was carried. He had never heard more irrelevant remarks than those which had fallen from the last speaker. In his part of the country tenants and landlords were not mutual enemies.
MR. GUESTdid not think the Amendment was of very great importance. So far as he could make out it would leave the law very much where it was at the present time. He thought the sub-section might be accepted as it stood. The House was composed partly, on the one hand, of landlords who did know something of agriculture, and, on the other hand, of people who knew nothing whatever of agriculture. He thought that the prejudice of those who knew something of agriculture was better for the Bill than the ignorance of those who knew nothing. It had never been his lot since he came to this House to hear any Member make such accusations or insinuations as had fallen from the hon. Member for the Newton division. The hon. Member had said that the landlords of the country only desired to rob their tenants. He understood him to say that they

1297
took good care that the tenant should be robbed of his improvements. He repudiated that statement; he thought it was grossly unfair. Where was the cry against the landlords? [An hon. Member: In Wales.] In what part? In South Glamorgan, with which he was acquainted, there was no difficulty between landlords and tenants. As a body, the landlords were as anxious to improve agriculture as the hon. Gentleman. Speaking for himself, what he felt about the Bill was that it did not go far enough.
MR. BOTTOMLEY (Hackney, S.)asked whether the hon. Member was in order in not confining himself to the sub-section.
ME. SPEAKER: The hon. Member was answering an attack which was made upon landlords.
MB. GUESTadmitted that he had been drawn into the remarks he had made by the attack of the hon. Gentleman. He could not suppose that the hon. Gentleman intended to attack the whole body of landlords.
SIR E. CARSONcalled attention to the very wide terms of the sub-section as it now stood. He asked the promoters of the Bill whether they really intended what the sub-section stated. In all previous legislation the arbitration had been limited to the question of improvements, but this sub-section was perfectly general. There was no limitation whatever. The sub-section said—
"All questions which under the Agricultural Holdings Acts, 1883 to 1900, or this Act, or under any custom or contract of tenancy, are to be determined by arbitration shall, notwithstanding any agreement to the contrary, and whether the tenancy commenced before or after passing of this Act, be determined by a single arbitrator in accordance with the provisions set out in Part I. of the Second Schedule to the Agricultural Holdings Act, 1900."
Did the promoters of the Bill mean that any question arising under a tenancy was to go to a single arbitrator whether it referred to improvements or not? It seemed to him that thousands of questions might arise which had no relation to improvements at all.
SIR W. ROBSONsaid this was not a sub-section to impose on landowners generally the obligation to go to arbitra-
1298
tion; it only enacted that all questions, which under the various Acts or agreements were to be determined, should henceforth be determined by a single arbitrator.
SIR E. CARSONsaid that matters outside questions of compensation might be dealt with by the arbitrator.
LORD WILLOUGHBY DE ERESBYsaid the House had now been debating the sub-section for some time, and only two Members had spoken in its favour. The reason why one Member wished it retained in the Bill was that landlords got a great deal more than they ought to get out of their tenants. In order to prove this the hon. Member said he knew of an agreement which a tenant had signed, one of the conditions of which was that he should reside in the farmhouse and keep it in repair. He himself did not think it was such a terrible thing that a landlord should look for a resident tenant, and not one who would live miles away from the farm, or that the tenant should be required to do the ordinary small repairs to the house. He did not quite gather from the hon. Gentleman's speech on what grounds he wished for one arbitrator instead of two. The hon. Member for the Leith Burghs supported the subsection because the Scottish farms wanted it. The fact was, as had been stated, that a Motion was carried at the meeting of the Scottish Chamber of Agriculture to the effect that there should be exceptions where more than one arbitrator could be employed.
MR. MUNRO FERGUSONsaid the question of appointing one arbitrator was discussed in relation to two points. There never was any question as to the expediency of having one valuator for improvements under the Agricultural Holdings Acts.
LORD WILLOUGHBY DE ERESBYasked why the Scottish tenants, if they wished to have one arbitrator instead of two, did not avail themselves of the Act of 1900. The hon. Member had referred to the case of sheep farm valuations. There could be no more crying shame than the method in which these valuations were carried out at present. The hors Member knew perfectly well that the

1299
moment it came to a question of large sums of money, perhaps £4,000 or £5,000 one way or the other, people would not consent to go before one arbitrator. He most earnestly asked the promoters of the Bill, in view of the expression of opinion from both sides of the House, to withdraw the sub-section, and allow things to remain as they were now in the matter of arbitration.
Mr. WINFREY rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."
Question put, "That the Question be now put."
The House divided:—Ayes, 312; Noes, 85. Division List No. 170.)

AYES.

Abraham, Willam (Cork, N.E)

Coats, Sir T. Glen(Renfrew, W.)

Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)

Abraham, Willam (Rhondda)

Collins Stephen (Lambeth)

Harrington, Timothy

Acland, Francis Dyke

Condon Thomas Joseph

Hart-Davies, T.

Adkins, W. Ryland

Cooper, G. J.

Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

Alden, Percy

Corbett, CH(Sussex, E. Grinst'd

Haworth, Arthur A.

Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)

Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

Hayden, John Patrick

Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

Cowan, W. H.

Hazel, Dr. A. E.

Armstrong, W. C. Heaton

Crean, Eugene

Hazleton, Richard

Ashton, Thomas Gair

Cremer, William Randal

Hedges, A. Paget

Astbury, John Meir

Crombie, John William

Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

Atherley-Jones, L.

Crossley, William J.

Henderson, J. M.(Aberdeen, W.)

Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

Dalziel, James Henry

Henry, Charles S.

Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.

Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan)

Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)

Balfour, Robert (Lanark)

Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

Higham, John Sharp

Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)

Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.

Hobart, Sir Robert

Barker, John

Delany, William

Hogan, Michael

Barlow, John Emmott (Som'rst)

Devlin, Charles Ramsay(Galw'y)

Howard, Hon. Geoffrey

Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)

Hutton, Alfred Eddison

Barnard, E. B.

Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.

Jacoby, James Alfred

Barran, Rowland Hirst

Dickinson, W.H.(St. PancrasN

Jardine, Sir J.

Barry, E. (Cork, S.)

Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.

Johnson, John (Gateshead)

Beale, W. P.

Dillon, John

Jones, David Brynmor(Swansea

Beauchamp, E.

Dodd, W. H.

Jones, Leif (Appleby)

Beaumont, W. C. B. (Hexh'm)

Dolan, Charles Joseph

Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.)

Beck, A. Cecil

Donelan, Captain A.

Jowett, F. W.

Bellairs, Carlyon

Duffy, William J.

Joyce, Michael

Benn, W. (T'w'rH'mrts,S. Geo.)

Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness

Kearley, Hudson E.

Bertram, Julius

Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

Kekewich, Sir George

Bethell, J.H.(Essex, Romford)

Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

Kennedy, Vincent Paul

Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon

Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall

Kilbride, Denis

Billson, Alfred

Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)

Kincaid-Smith, Captain

Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordshire)

Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

King, Alfred John Knutsford)

Blake, Edward

Esmonde, Sir Thomas

Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster)

Boland, John

Evans, Samuel T.

Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

Brace, William

Everett, R. Lacey

Lambert, George

Branch, James

Farrell, James Patrick

Lamont, Norman

Bright, J. A.

Fenwick, Charles

Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

Brunner, J.F.L. (Lanc8.,Leigh)

Ferens, T. R.

Layland-Barratt, Francis

Brunner, Sir John T.(Cheshire)

Ferguson, B. C. Munro

Lea, HughCecil (St. Pancras, E.)

Bryce, Rt. Hn. James(Aberdeen

Ffrench, Peter

Leese, Sir Joseph F(Accrington)

Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs)

Flavin, Michael Joseph

Lehmann, R. C

Buckmaster, Stanley O.

Flynn, James Christopher

Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich

Burke, E. Haviland

Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter

Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral)

Burns, Rt. Hon. John

Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry

Lewis, John Herbert

Burnyeat, J. D. W.

Fuller, John Michael F.

Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David

Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas

Fullerton, Hugh

Lundon, W.

Buxton, Ht. Hn. Sydney Charles

Gibb, James (Harrow)

Luttrell, Hugh Fownes

Byles, William Pollard

Gill, A. H.

Lyell, Charles Henry

Cairns, Thomas

Ginnell, L.

Lynch, H. B.

Cameron, Robert

Gladstone, Rt. Hon. H. John

Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)

Carr-Gomm, H. W.

Glendinning, R. G.

Macdonald, J. M. (FalkirkB'ghs)

Causton, Rt. Hn. RichardKnight

Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)

Mackarness, Frederic C.

Cawley, Frederick

Greenwood, Hamar (York)

MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down,)

Channing, Francis Allston

Griffith, Ellis

MacVeigh, Charles(Donegal, E.)

Cheetham, John Frederick

Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

M'Callum, John M.

Clarke, C. Goddard

Halpin, J.

M'Crae, George

Cleland, J. W.

Hammond, John

M'Killop, W.

Clough, W.

Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)

M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

M'Micking, Major G.

Price, Robert John (Norfolk, E.)

Sullivan, Donal

Maddison, Frederick

Radford, G. H.

Summerbell, T.

Mallet, Charles E.

Rainy, A. Rolland

Sutherland, J. E.

Manfield, Harry (Northante)

Raphael, Herbert H.

Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)

Mansfield, H. Rendall(Lincoln)

Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

Taylor, John W. (Durham)

Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)

Reddy, M.

Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)

Marnham, F. J.

Redmond, John E. (Waterf'rd)

Tennant, Sir Edward (Salisbury

Massie, J.

Redmond, William (Clare)

Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)

Meagher, Michael

Rees, J. D.

Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)

Menzies, Walter

Renton, Major Leslie

Thomas, Sir A.(Glamorgan, E.)

Micklem, Nathaniel

Rickett, J. Compton

Thomasson, Franklin

Molteno, Percy Alport

Ridsdale, E. A.

Tomkinson, James

Mond, A.

Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

Torrance, A.

Montagu, E. S.

Robertson Sir G. Stott (Bradf'rd

Ure, Alexander

Morgan, J. Lloyd(Carmarthen)

Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

Verney, F. W.

Morrell, Philip

Robinson, S.

Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)

Morton, Alpheue Cleophas

Robson, Sir William Snowdon

Walsh, Stephen

Murnaghan, George

Roche, John (Galway, East)

Ward, John(Stoke upon Trent

Murphy, John

Rogers, F. E. Newman

Warner, Thomas Courtenay Ti

Murray, James

Rose, Charles Day

Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)

Myer, Horatio

Rowlands, J.

Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney

Napier, T. B.

Russell, T. W.

Waterlow, D. S.

Nicholls, George

Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

Watt, H. Anderson

Nicholson, Charles N.(Doneast'r

Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)

Wedgwood, Josiah C.

Nolan, Joseph

Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

Weir, Jumes Galloway

Norman, Henry

Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

Whitbread, Howard

Norton, Capt. Cecil William

Schwann, Chas. E. (Manchester)

White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)

Nussey, Thomas Willans

Scott, A. H.(Ashton under Lyne

White, Luke (York, E.R.)

O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

Sears, J. E.

White, Patrick (Meath, North)

O'Connor, James(Wicklow, W.)

Seaverns, J. H.

Whitehead, Rowland

O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

Seddon, J.

Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

O'Doherty, Philip

Shackleton, David James

Wilkie, Alexander

O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)

Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)

Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarth'n

O'Grady, J.

Shipman, Dr. John G.

Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)

O'Hare, Patrick

Silcock, Thomas Ball

Wills, Arthur Walters

O'Malley, William

Sinclair, Rt. Hon John

Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough)

O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

Sloan, Thomas Henry

Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.

Parker, James (Halifax)

Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)

Partington, Oswald

Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)

Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

Paul, Herbert

Snowden, P.

Wood, T. M'Kinnon

Paulton, James Mellor

Soames, Arthur Wellesley

Woodhonse, Sir J.T.(Huddersf'd

Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)

Stanger, H. Y.

Young, Samuel

Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)

Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)

Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton)

Steadman, W. C.

TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

Philipps, J. Wynford (Pembroke

Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

Mr. Soares and Mr.

Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)

Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)

Winfrey.

Power, Patrick Joseph

Strachey, Sir Edward

Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)

Straus, B. S. (Mile End)

NOES.

Acland-Hood, Rt Hn Sir Alex F.

Craig, Captain James (Down, E.)

Houston, Robert Paterson

Anson, Sir William Reynell

Craik, Sir Henry

Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H.

Anstruther-Gray, Major

Cross, Alexander

Keayon-Sloney, Rt. Hon. Col. W

Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hon. Sir H.

Dalrymple, Viscount

Keswick, William

Balcarres, Lord

Dixon-Hartland, Sir FredDixon

Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.

Balfour, Rt Hn. A.J. (City Lond)

Duncan, Robert(Lanark, Govan

Lane-Fox, G. R.

Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)

Faber, George Denison (York)

Liddell, Henry

Banbury, Sir Fred rickGeorge

Fell, Arthur

Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt. Col. A.R.

Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester

Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S)

Beach, Hn. Michael HughHicks

Fletcher, J. S.

Lonsdale, John Brownlee

Beckett, Hon. Gervase

Forster, Heary William

Lowe, Sir Francis William

Bignold, Sir Arthur

Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)

M'Calmont, Colonel James

Bridgeman, W. Clive

Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

Marks, H. H. (Kent)

Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.

Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.

Mason, James F. (Windsor)

Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

Hay, Hon. Claude George

Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

Castlereagh, Viscount

Helmsley, Viscount

Nicholson, Wm. G.(Petersfield)

Cave, George

Hervey, F.W.F. (Bury S. Edm'ds

Nield, Herbert

Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens

Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey

Hill, Henry Staveley (Staff'sh.)

Pease, HerbertPike(Darlington

Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)

Hills, J. W.

Percy, Earl

Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.

Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

Remnant, James Farquharson

Courthope, G. Lloyd

Hornby, Sir William Henry

Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

1302

1303

Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert

Valentia, Viscount

Worsley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire

Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George

Smith, F.E.(Liverpool, Walton)

Walrond, Hon. Lionel

Younger, George

Starkey, John R.

Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid)

Stone, Sir Benjamin

Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)

TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G.(Oxf'dUniv.

Willoughby de Eresby, Lord

Mr. Laurence Hardy and

Thomson. W. Mitchell-(Lanark

Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.

Mr. Abel Smith.

Turnour. Viscount

Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

Question put accordingly "That the words proposed to be left out, to the word
The House divided:—Ayes, 292; Noes, 112. (Division List No. 171.)

AYES.

Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.

Cooper, G. J.

Hazelton, Richard

Abraham, William (Rhondda)

Corbett, CH(Sussex, E. Grinst'd

Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

Acland, Francis Dyke

Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

Henderson, J. M.(Aberdeen, W.)

Adkins, W. Ryland

Cowan, W. H.

Henry, Charles S.

Alden, Percy

Crean, Eugene

Higham, John Sharp

Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)

Cremer, William Randal

Hobart, Sir Robert

Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

Crombie, John William

Hogan, Michael

Ashton, Thomas Gair

Crossley, William J.

Howard, Hon. Geoffrey

Astbury, John Meir

Dalziel, James Henry

Hutton, Alfred Eddison

Atherley-Jones, L.

Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

Jaceby, James Alfred

Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.

Jardine, Sir J.

Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)

Delany, William

Johnson, John (Gateshead)

Balfour, Robert (Lanark)

Devlin, Charles Ramsay(Galw'y)

Jones, David Brynmor(Swansea

Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)

Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh. S.)

Jones, William (Carnarvonshire

Barker, John.

Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.

Jowett, F. W.

Barlow, John Emmott (Somers't)

Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancas, N.

Joyce, Michael

Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

Dillon, John

Kearley, Hudson, E.

Barnard, E. B.

Dodd, John

Kekewich, Sir George

Barran, Rowland Hirst

Dolan, Charles Joseph

Kennedy, Vincent Paul

Barry, E. (Cork, S.)

Donelan, Captain A.

Kilbride, Denis

Beale, W. P.

Duffy, William J.

Kincaid-Smith, Captain

Beauchamp, E.

Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness

King, Alfred John (Knutsford

Bellairs, Carlyon

Duncan, J.H. (York, Otley)

Kitson, Sir James

Benn, W.(T'w'r H'mlets, S. Geo.

Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall)

Lamb, Edmund G.(Leominst'r

Bertram, Julius

Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)

Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford

Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

Lambert, George

Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Haldon)

Esmonde, Sir Thomas

Lamont, Norman

Billson, Alfred

Evans, Samuel T.

Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire

Farrell, James Patrick

Layland-Barratt, Francis

Blake, Edward

Fenwick, Charles

Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras, E.)

Boland, John

Ferens, T. R.

Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington

Brace, William

Ferguson, R. C. Munro

Lehmann, R. C.

Branch, James

Ffrench, Peter

Lever, A. Levy(Essex, Harwich

Bright, J. A.

Flavin, Michael Joseph

Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral),

Brunner, J.F.L. (Lancs., Leigh)

Flynn, James Christopher

Lewis, John Herbert

Brunner, Sir John T. (Cheshire)

Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter

Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David

Bryce. Rt. Hn. James (Aberdeen

Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry

Lundon, W.

Bryce, J.A.(Inverness Burghs)

Fullerton, Hugh

Luttrell, Hugh Fownes

Buchanan, Thomas, Ryburn

Gibb, James (Harrow)

Lynch, H. B.

Buckmaster, Stanl y O.

Gill, A. H.

Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)

Burke, E. Haviland-

Ginnell, L.

Macdonald, J. M. (FalkirkB'ghs

Burns, Rt. Hon. John

Glendinning, R. G.

Mackarness, Frederick C.

Burnyeat, J. D. W.

Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)

MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down,. S.

Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas

Greenwood, Hamar (York)

MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)

Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles

Griffith, Ellis J.

M'Callum, John M.

Byles, William Pollard

Halpin, J.

M'Crae, George

Cairns, Thomas

Hammond, John

M'Killop, W.

Cameron, Robert

Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)

M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

CarrGomm, H. W.

Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r

M'Micking, Major G.

Causton, Rt. Hn. RichardKnig't

Harrington, Timothy

Maddison, Frederick

Channing, Francis Allston

Hart-Davies, T.

Mallet, Charles E.

Clarke, C. Goddard

Harwood, George

Manfield, Harry (Northants)

Cleland, J. W.

Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln

Clough, W.

Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth

Marks, G. Croydon(Launceston

Coats, Sir T. Glen(Renfrew, W.)

Haworth, Arthur A.

Marnham, F. J.

Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)

Hayden, John Patrick.

Massie, J.

Condon, Thomas Joseph

Hazel, Dr. A. E.

Meagher, Michael

Menzies, Walter

Rea, Russell (Gloucester!

Summerbell, T.

Micklem, Nathaniel

Reddy, M.

Sutherland, J. E.

Molteno, Percy Alport

Redmond, John E. (Waterford

Taylor, John W. (Durham)

Mond, A.

Redmond, William (Clare)

Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe

Montagu, E. S.

Rees, J. D.

Tennant, Sir Edward(Salisbury

Mooney, J. J.

Rickett, J. Compton

Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)

Morgan, J. Lloyd(Carmarthen)

Ridsdale, E. A.

Thomas, Abel(Carmarthen, E.)

Morrell, Philip

Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.

Morton, Alpheus cleophas

Robertson, Sir G. Scott(Bradf'rd

Thomasson, Franklin

Murnaghan, George

Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

Tomkinson, James

Murphy, John

Robinson, S.

Torrance, A. M.

Murray, James

Roche, John (Galway, East)

Ure, Alexander

Myer, Horatio

Rogers, F. E. Newman

Verney, F. W.

Napier, T. B.

Rose, Charles Day

Walker, H. De Rr. (Leicester)

Nicholls, George

Rowlands, J.

Walsh, Stephen

Nicholson, Chas N. (Doncaster

Russell, T. W.

Warde, John (Stoke uponTrent

Nolan, Joseph

Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)

Norman, Henry

Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)

Wason, John Cathcart-Orkney)

Norton, Capt. Cecil William

Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

Waterlow, D. S.

Nuttall, Harry

Scarisbrick, T. T. L.

Watt, H. Anderson

O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

Wedgwood, Josiah C.

O'Brien, William (Cork)

Schwann, Chas. E. (Manchester)

Weir, James Galloway

O'Connor, James(Wicklow, W-

Scott, A.H. (Ashton und' Lyne

White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)

O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

Sears, J. E.

White, Luke (York, E.R.)

O'Doherty, Philip

Seaverns, J. H.

White, Patrick (Meath, North

O'Donnell. T. (Kerry, W.)

Seddon, J.

Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

O'Grady, J.

Shackleton, David James B.

Wiles, Thomas

O'Hare, Patrick

Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick)

Wilkie, Alexander

O'Malley, William

Shipman, Dr. John G.

Williams, Liewellyn(Carmathen.

O'Shauglinessy, P. J.

Silcock, Thomas Ball

Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)

Parker, James (Halifax)

Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John

Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough)

Paul, Herbert

Sloan, Thomas Henry

Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.)

Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)

Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)

Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)

Smyth, Thos. F. (Leitrim, S.)

Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

Philipps, Col. Ivor(S'thampton;

Soames, Arthur Wellesley

Wood, T. M'Kinnon

Philipps, J. Wynford(Pembr'ke

Stanger' H. Y.

Woodhouse, Sir JT. (Huddersf'd.

Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)

Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.

Young, Samuel

Power, Patrick Joseph

Steadman, W. C.

Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)

Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr.

Price, Robert John (Norfolk. E,

Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)

Soares and Mr. Winfrey.

Radford, G. H.

Straus, B. S. (Mile End)

Rainy, A. Rolland

Sullivan, Donal

NOES.

Anson, Sir William Reynell

Cross, Alexander

Houston, Robert Paterson

Anstruther-Gray, Major

Dalrymple, Viscount

Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H.

Armstrong, W. C. Heaton

Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan)

Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hon. Col. W.

Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H.

Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon.

Keswick, William

Balcarres, Lord

Duncan, Robert (LanarkGovan

Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.

Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J.(CityLond.)

Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

Lane-Fox, G. R.

Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)

Erskine, David C.

Liddell, Henry

Banbury, Sir Frederick George

Everett, R. Lacey

Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A.R.

Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)

Faber, George Denison (York)

Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham)

Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks

Fell, Arthur

Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Dublin, S.)

Beaumont, W. C. B. (Hexham)

Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

Lonsdale, John Brownlee

Beck, A. Cecil

Fletcher, J. S.

Lowe, Sir Francis William

Beckett, Hon. Gervase

Forster, Henry William

Lyell, Charles Henry

Bignold, Sir Arthur

Fuller, John Michael F.

Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred

Bridgeman, W. Clive

Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)

M'Calmont, Colonel James

Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.

Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

Marks, H. H. (Kent)

Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford

Mason, James F. (Windsor)

Castlereagh, Viscount

Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.

Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

Cave, George

Hay, Hon. Claude George

Nicholson, Win. G.(Petersfield)

Cawley, Frederick

Hedges, A. Paget

Nield, Herbert

Cecil Evelyn (Aston Manor)

Helmsely, Viscount

Nussey, Thomas Willans

Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey-

Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)

O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens

Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)

Hervey, F. W. F. (Bury S. Edm'ds

Partington, Oswald

Cheetham, John Frederick

Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlington)

Cochrane, Thos. H. A. E.

Kill, Henry Staveley(Staff'sh.)

Percy, Earl

Courthope, G. Loyd

Hills, J. W.

Raphael, Herbert

Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)

Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

Remnant, James Farquharson

Craik, Sir Henry

Hornby, Sir William Henry

Renton, Major Leslie

1306

1307

Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Lanark

Wills, Arthur Walters

Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter

Thornton, Percy M.

Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.)

Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert

Tumour, Viscount

Wolf, Gustav Wilhelm

Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire

Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

Smith, Abel H.(Hertford, East)

Walrond, Hon. Lionel

Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George

Smith, F.E. (Liverpool, Walton)

Warde, Col, C. E. (Kent, Mid)

Younger, George

Snowden, P.

Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.

Starkey, John R.

Whitbread, Howard

TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir

Stone, Sir Benjamin

Whitehead, Rowland

Alexander Acland-Hood and

Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ.

Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)

Viscount Valentia.

Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)

Willoughby de Eresby, Lord

'contract,' in page 1, line 24, stand part of the Bill."
MR. COCHRANEmoved to insert "under any "after" or "in Clause 1, subsection (2), line 4. The Amendment was of very considerable interest in Scotland. It was quite obvious that there were many large tenants who were capable of making any arrangements on a perfectly fair and equal basis with their landlords. All sorts of complicated questions arose under the leases in Scotland. There were often different classes of arbitration such as the valuation of sheep stock, the various forms of cropping, etc. Of course the ordinary way when a valuation was to be made was for each party to appoint an arbitrator, and if they could not agree an oversman was appointed on application to the Sheriff. Under this subsection as it stood, all the friendly arrangements which had been made between landlord and tenant in Scotland, which had hitherto worked remarkably well, would be knocked on the head. If only a single arbitrator was appointed, a man who knew nothing of the particular forms of agriculture in the east country might be sent from a dairy country, and in like manner a man might be sent from a dairy country to a potato district, or from a potato district to a cattle-feeding district, to deal with valuations. He contended that the best way was to leave landlord and tenant to arrange as to the mode of arbitration. The hon. Gentleman had referred to a meeting of the Scottish Agricultural Society. He knew something of that body, and at that meeting one of the largest farmers in the country, Mr. Hope of Barney Hill, moved an Amendment against a single arbitrator, stating that he did not believe that the farmers of Scotland would be ready to tie themselves down to the clause as it stood. That Resolution was carried by twenty-one to eighteen. He would remind the House that arbitration was only Substituting one court for another; and
1308
why should these responsible duties be placed in the hands of a man who had no particular training for the work? The sub-section interfered with the custom which had subsisted in Scotland for many years, and the object of his Amendment was to save existing tenancies from the operation of the sub-section where arrangements of a contrary nature had been made.
Amendment proposed—
"In page 1, line 24, after the word 'or' to insert the words under any.'"—(Mr. Cochrane.)
Question proposed, "That these words be there inserted."
MR. SOARESsaid that the promoters of the Bill were unable to accept the Amendment. He believed that the principle of a single arbitrator would be good both for the tenant and for the landlord, and he utterly failed to see why existing tenants should not have the benefits which were expected to arise under this provision as well as tenants in the future.
COLONEL KENYON-SLANEYsaid that those who supported the Amendment desired to maintain existing contracts entirely without a break, and that was, he believed, what 99 per cent, of the tenants desired should be done. [" No, no."] Hon. Gentlemen said "No, no," but he confidently appealed to the two tenant farmers who had spoken to corroborate what he had said. He did not think that there were more than two tenant farmers in the House, but at all events the two who had spoken had expressed themselves strongly in favour of the position he was now taking up. The Chambers of Commerce were all against the proposed change, and if the opinion of the great majority of tenant farmers was taken on the subject he was sure that they would adopt the attitude which the Opposition were taking up.

1309
He personally did not think that this was a question between landlord and tenant. He did not regard it as a landlord question at all. As a landlord himself, he did not regard this measure as of much importance, but he did not think that the tenants were likely to get the results from it which were predicted. After all, the contracts between landlords and tenants had been entered into by reasonable men, with full knowledge on each side of the consequences of their action, and in his opinion nobody could say that in the midland counties, at any rate, the tenants were not able to make these arrangements with the full knowledge of what they meant. He thought, therefore, that the tenants would prefer the arrangements which they themselves had come to, at all events while those arrangements continued in force. In his opinion the measure was not wanted; and it would create a feeling of insecurity on the part of both tenants and landlords.
MR. SHACKLETONwas glad to hear that this was not only not a landlord's Bill, but that the hon. Member did think that the tenant farmers had an interest in it. When, however, he considered the debate which had taken place, and the amount of time which had been spent upon the consideration of the Bill in the Committee upstairs, he thought the tenants would appreciate the splendid efforts of their friends in preventing the Bill from becoming law. The Labour Party were sometimes told previous to the last general election that there was a danger that if they were returned they would represent a class interest. The House had had a striking illustration to-day that class interest was not confined to those who represented the Labour Party, but that the landlords were present to represent their own interests and their own class.
MR. SPEAKER: The subject which the hon. Member is now raising will no doubt lead to many speeches in opposition to his views, and it will be very difficult to stop those speeches, and to keep the debate within the lines of the Bill.
MR. SHACKLETONsaid he would not pursue the matter further, but he would
1310
point out that the Bill was discussed in a very exhaustive manner upstairs, and that it seemed to him that it was a waste of time to raise the same points again and again for the purpose of preventing the Bill from becoming law.
MR. LAMBTONsaid the hon. Member who had spoken last seemed to forget that there were 670 Members of the House of Commons who were entitled to discuss this matter. Personally he was not a member of the Committee to which the hon. Member had referred, and he was not acquainted with their decisions, and, the matter coming before the House on Report, he did not think they ought to attach too much importance to what had taken place upstairs. The hon. Member had talked about class interest, and of hon. Members representing one class only. It was precisely there that he had made a great mistake in reference to this particular Bill, and he did not think such references were calculated to facilitate the progress of the measure. He had been a landlord for nearly a quart of a century, and in supporting this Amendment he thought he was supporting the interests of the tenants as well as of the landlords. The hon. Member seemed to have forgotten that during the last twenty-five years there had been great depression in agriculture, and that the landlord now had to accept the tenants' terms instead of the tenant having to accept the landlord's terms. Therefore it was useless in these days for anybody to get up and say that a tenant had entered into any agreement contrary to his wishes.
MR. WALTER LONGwished to say a few words in reply to what had been said in regard to the attitude taken by himself and his friends. It was said that they were acting contrary to the interests of the tenant farmers; they were content to leave the tenant farmers to judge of their actions. They did not feel it necessary to take exception to the remarks which had been made except to point out that it was an illustration of the class of opposition to which they were exposed. They on that side were acting in the interests of ninety-nine out of a hundred of occupying tenants and also in the interests of the landlords.
Question put.
The House divided:—Ayes 93: Noes 301. (Division List No. 172)

AYES.

Acland-Hood. Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F

Fuller, John Michael F.

Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlington

Anson, Sir William Reynell

Gardner, Ernest (Berks East,)

Percy, Earl

Anstruther-Gray, Major

Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

Remnant, James Farquharson

Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H.

Hardy, Laurence(Kent. Ashford

Renton, Major Leslie

Balcarres, Lord

Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.

Ridsdale, E. A.

Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J.(CityLond.)

Hay, Hon. Claude George

Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)

Hedges, A. Paget

Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter

Banbury, Sir Frederick George

Helmsley, Viscount

Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert

Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

Hervey, F.W.F.(Bury S. Edm'ds

Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks

Hill, Sir Clement(Shrewsbury)

Smith, Abel H.(Hertford, East)

Beale, W, P.

Hills, J. W.

Starkey, John R.

Beckett, Hon. Gervase

Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

Stone, Sir Benjamin

Bignold, Sir Arthur

Hornby, Sir William Henry

Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'dUniv

Bridgeman, W. Clive

Houston, Sir Robert Paterson

Tennant, Sir Edw. (Salisbury)

Burnyeat, J. D. W.

Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H.

Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark

Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.

Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hon. Col. W.

Thornton, Percy M.

Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

Keswick, William

Turnour, Viscount

Castlereagh, Viscount

Kincaid-Smith Captain

Walker, Col. W.H.(Lancashire)

Cave, George

Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.

Walrond, Hon. Lionel

Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

Lane-Fox, G. R.

Warde, Col. C E. (Kent, Mid)

Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey-

Liddell, Henry

Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.

Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)

Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A.R.

Willoughby de Eresby, Lord

Cheetham, John Frederick

Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham)

Wills, Arthur Walters

Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.

Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Dublin, S.)

Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.

Courthope, G. Loyd

Lonsdale, John Brownlee

Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)

Lowe, Sir Francis William

Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart

Craik, Sir Henry

Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred

Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George

Dalrymple, Viscount

M'Calmont, Colonel James

Younger, George

Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon

Marks, H. H. (Kent)

Faber, George Denison (York)

Mason, James F. (Windsor)

TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

Fell, Arthur

Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

Viscount Valentia and Mr.

Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

Nicholson, Win. G. (Petersfield

Forster.

Fletcher, J. S.

Nield, Herbert

NOES.

Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.)

Bright, J. A.

Delany, William

Abraham, William (Rhondda)

Brunner, J.F.L.(Lancs., Leigh)

Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway

Acland, Francis Dyke

Brunner, Sir John T. (Cheshire)

Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh,S.)

Adkins, W. Ryland

Bryce, J.A.(Inverness Burghs)

Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancras. N

Alden, Percy

Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn

Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.

Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)

Buckmaster, Stanley O.

Dodd, W. H.

Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

Burke, E. Haviland-

Dolan, Charles Joseph

Ashton, Thomas Gair

Burns, Rt. Hon. John

Donelan, Captain A.

Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry

Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas

Duffy, William J.

Astbury, John Meir

Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles

Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness

Atherley-Jones, L.

Byles, William Pollard

Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

Cairns, Thomas

Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)

Cameron, Robert

Dunne, Major Martin (Walsall)

Balfour, Robert (Lanark)

Carr-Gomm, H. W.

Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)

Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)

Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight

Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

Barker, John

Channing, Francis Allston

Erskine, David C.

Barlow, John Emmott(Somerset

Clarke, C. Goddard

Esmonde, Sir Thomas

Barnard, E. B.

Cleland, J. W.

Evans, Samuel T.

Barran, Rowland Hirst

Clough, W.

Everett, R. Lacey

Barry, E. (Cork, S.)

Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.)

Farrell, James Patrick

Beauchamp, E.

Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)

Ferens, T. R.

Beck, A. Cecil

Condon, Thomas Joseph

Ferguson, R. C. Munro

Bellairs, Carlyon

Cooper, G. J.

Ffrench, Peter

Benn, W. (T'w'rHamlets, S.Geo.

Corbett,C. H(Sussex,E. Grinst'd

Flavin, Michael Joseph

Bennett, E. N.

Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

Flynn, James Christopher

Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford

Cowan, W. H.

Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter

Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)

Crean, Eugene

Fullerton, Hugh

Billson, Alfred

Cremer, William Randal

Gibb, James (Harrow)

Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire

Crombie, John William

Gill, A. H.

Blake, Edward

Crossley, William J.

Ginnell, L.

Boland, John

Dalziell, James Henry

Glendinning, R. G.

Brace, William

Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan

Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)

Branch, James

Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

Greenwood, Hamar (York)

Griffith, Ellis J.

M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

Gulland, John W.

M'Micking, Major G.

Scarisbrick, T. T. L.

Halpin, J.

Maddison, Frederick

Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

Hammond, John

Mallet, Charles E.

Schwann, Chas. E. (Manchester

Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)

Manfield, Harry (Northants)

Scott, A. H.(Ashton-und.-Lyne

Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)

Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln

Sears, J. E.

Harrington, Timothy

Marks, H. Croydon(Launceston

Seaverns, J. H.

Hart-Davies, T.

Marnham, F. J.

Seddon, J.

Harwood, George

Massie, J.

Shackleton, David James

Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

Meagher, Michael

Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.

Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

Menzies, Walter

Shipman, Dr. John G.

Haworth, Arthur A.

Micklem, Nathaniel

Silcock, Thomas Ball

Hayden, John Patrick

Molteno, Percy Alport

Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John

Hazel, Dr. A. E.

Mond, A.

Sloan, Thomas Henry

Hazleton, Richard

Montagu, E. S.

Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

Healey, Timothy Michael

Montgomery, H. H.

Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.

Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

Mooney, J. J.

Snowden, P.

Henderson, J.M.(Aberdeen, W.)

Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)

Soames, Arthur Wellesley

Henry, Charles S.

Morrell, Philip

Stanger, H. Y.

Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)

Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)

Higham, John Sharp

Murnaghan, George

Steadman, W. C.

Hobart, Sir Robert

Murphy, John

Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

Hogan, Michael

Murray, James

Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)

Holden, E. Hopkinson

Myer, Horatio

Strachey, Sir Edward

Hooper, A. G.

Napier, T. B.

Straus, B. S. (Mile End)

Howard, Hon. Geoffrey

Nicholls, George

Sullivan, Donal

Hutton, Alfred Eddison

Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r)

Summerbell, T.

Hyde, Clarendon

Nolan, Joseph

Sutherland, J. E.

Jackson, R. S.

Norton, Capt. Cecil William

Taylor, John W. (Durham)

Jacoby, James Alfred

Nussey, Thomas Willans

Taylor, Theodore C.(Radcliffe;

Jardine, Sir J.

Nuttall, Harry

Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)

Johnson, John (Gateshead)

O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)

Jones, David Brynmor (Swansea

O'Brien, William (Cork)

Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)

Jones, Leif (Appleby)

O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.)

Thomasson, Franklin

Jones, William (Carnarvonshire

O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

Tomkinson, James

Jowett, F. W.

O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

Torrance, A. M.

Joyce, Michael

O'Doherty, Philip

Ure, Alexander

Kearley, Hudson E.

O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)

Verney, F. W.

Kekewicli, Sir George

O'Grady, J.

Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)

Kennedy, Vincent Paul

O'Hare, Patrick

Walsh, Stephen

Kilbride, Denis

O'Malley, William

Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent

King, Alfred John (Knustford)

O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton

Kitson, Sir James

Parker, James (Halifax)

Warner Thomas Courtenay T.

Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

Paul, Herbert

Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)

Lambert, George

Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)

Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)

Lamont, Norman

Pearce, J. A. (Saffron Walden)

Watt H Anderson

Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton)

Wedgwood Josiah C.

Layland-Barratt, Francis

Philipps, J. Wynford (Pembroke

Weir James Galloway

Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras, E

Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)

White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire

Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington)

Power, Patrick Joseph

White' Luke (York E. R.)

Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central

Lever, A. Levy(Essex, Harwich)

White, Patrick (Meath, North)

Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)

Price, Robert John (Norfolk E.

Whitfhead Rowland

Lever, W.H. (Cheshire, Wirral)

Rainy, A. Rolland

Whitely, J.H. (Halifax)

Lewis, John Herbert

Raphael, Herbert H.

Wiles. Thomas

Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David

Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

Wilkie, Alexander

Lough, Thomas

Reddy, M.

Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'rth'n)

Lundon, W.

Redmond,, John E. (Waterford

Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)

Lupton, Arnold

Redmond, William (Clare)

Wilson, Hn. C. H. W. (Hull. W.)

Luttrell, Hugh Fownes

Rees, J. D.

Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.

Lynch, H. B.

Rickett, J. Compton

Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)

Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)

Robertson, Sir G. Scott(Bradf'rd)

Wilson W T (Westhoughton

Macdonald, J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs

Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

Wood T M'Kinnon

Mackarness, Frederic C.

Robinson, S.

Woodhouse, Sir J.T.(Huddersf'd

MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.

Roche, John (Galway, East)

Young, Samuel

MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.

Rose, Charles Day

M'Callum, John M.

Rowlands, J.

TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.

M'Crae, George

Russell, T. W.

Soares and Mr. Winfrey.

M'Kenna, Reginald

Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford

M'Killop, W.

Samuel, Herbert L.(Cleveland)

SIR E. CARSONmoved to insert after the word "tenants," the words relating
1314
to compensation for improvements." He pointed out that the House up to a short

1315
time previously was under the impression that this clause was to substitute one arbitrator for the two insisted upon in the previous Act for this purpose, but they had now ascertained that the subsection went much further, and meant that the arbitrator was to deal not only with questions in dispute as to improvements, but with every case of dispute under the agreements which had been entered into. If anybody turned to the Agricultural Holdings Act of 1900 which set up the principle of arbitration, and which this section amended, they would find that that arbitration was to be confined to compensation for improvements. The words of the section of the present Bill were the words of the second section of the Act of 1900, except that the words "compensation for improvements "were left out to make it wider. Unless it was intended to abrogate the rights of landlords and tenants under the agreements entered into, he could not see the reason for this Bill widening that section in this way.
Amendment proposed—
"In page 1, line 54, after the word 'tenancy' to insert the words 'relating to compensation for improvements."'—(Sir Edward Carson.)
Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
SIR W. ROBSONsaid no doubt the subsection did extend the principle of the single arbitrator to all cases in which arbitration was provided for. He thought there was no very essential
distinction so far as the tribunal for dealing with them was concerned, between compensation cases and other cases.
SIR F. BANBURYsaid the Solicitor-General appeared, like the hon. member for Clitheroe, to be in favour of taking away freedom of contract from everybody, and of setting up a particular class of persons to judge what other people might do. It was monstrous that when two people desired to take a certain course, the hon. member for Clitheroe, or somebody equally ignorant of agricultural matters, should step in and say they should not be allowed to do so.
Mr. SOARESrose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put;" but Mr. SPEAKER withheld his assent, and declined then to put that Question.
SIR F. BANBURYsaid that that was an illustration of the manner in which the Bill had been conducted, and he would say no more.
Mr. ABEL SMITHrose to continue the debate, but
Mr. SOARESrose in his place, and claimed to move; "That the Question be now put."
Question put, "That the Question lie now put."
The House divided:—Ayes, 319; Noes, 85. (Division List, No. 173.)

AYES.

Abraham William, (Cork, N.E.

Beale, W. P.

Buckmaater, Stanley O.

Abraham, William (Rhondda)

Beauchamp, E.

Burke, E. Haviland-

Acland, Francis Dyke

Beaumont, W. C. B. (Hexham)

Burns, Rt. Hon. John

Adkins, W. Ryland

Beck, A. Cecil

Burnyeat, J. D. W.

Alden, Percy

Bellairs, Carlyon

Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas

Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)

Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.

Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Chas.

Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

Bennett, E. N.

Byles, William Pollard

Astbury, John Meir

Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)

Cairns, Thomas

Atherley-Jones, L.

Billson, Alfred

Cameron, Robert

Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire

Carr-Gomm, H. W.

Baker, Joseph A.(Finsbury, E.)

Blake, Edward

Causton, Rt. Hn Richard Knight

Balfour, Robert (Lanark)

Boland, John

Cawley, Frederick

Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)

Bolton, T.D.(Derbyshire, N.E.)

Channing, Francis Allston

Barker, John

Brace, William

Cheetham, John Frederick

Barlow, John Emmott (Somers't

Branch, James

Churchill, Winston Spencer

Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

Brunner, J.F.L. (Lanes., Leigh)

Clarke, C. Goddard

Barnard, E. B.

Brunner, Sir John T. (Cheshire)

Cleland, J. W.

Barran, Rowland Hirst

Bryce, J.A. (Inverness Burghs)

Clough, W.

Barry, E. (Cork, S.)

Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn

Coats, Sir T. Glen (Rentrew, W.)

Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)

Horniman, Emslie John

Norton, Capt. Cecil William

Condon, Thomas Joseph

Howard, Hon. Geoffrey

Nussey, Thomas Willans

Cooper, G. J.

Hutton, Alfred Eddison

Nuttall, Harry

Corbett, CH.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd

Hyde, Clarendon

O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

Jackson, R. S.

O'Brien, William (Cork)

Crean, Eugene

Jacoby, James Alfred

O'Connor, James (Wicklow. W.

Cremer, William Randal

Jardine, Sir J.

O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

Crombie, John William

Jones, David Brynmor(Swansea

O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

Crossley, William J.

Jones, Leif (Appleby)

O'Doherty, Philip

Dalziel, James Henry

Jones, William (Carnarvonshire

O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)

Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan

Jowett, F. W.

O'Grady, J.

Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

Joyce, Michael

O'Hare, Patrick

Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)

Kearley, Hudson E.

O'Malley, William

Delany, William

Kekewich, Sir George

O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

Devlin, Charles Ramsay(Galw'y

Kennedy, Vincent Paul

Parker, James (Halifax)

Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)

Kilbride, Denis

Partington, Oswald

Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.

Kincaid-Smith, Captain

Paul, Herbert

Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancras, N.

King, Alfred John (Knutsford)

Paulton, James Mellor

Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.

Kitson, Sir James

Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)

Dillon, John

Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)

Dodd, W. H.

Lambert, George

Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton)

Dolan, Charles Joseph

Lamont, Norman

Philipps, J. Wynford (Pembroke

Donelan, Captain A.

Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)

Duffy, William J.

Layland-Barratt, Francis

Power, Patrick Joseph

Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness

Lea, Hugh Cecil(St. Pancras, E.

Price, C.E.(Edinburgh, Central)

Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington

Price, Robert John(Norfolk, E.),

Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

Lehmann, R. C.

Rainy, A. Holland

Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall

Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)

Raphael, Herbert H.

Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)

Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral)

Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

Lewis, John Herbert

Reddy, M.

Erskine, David C.

Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David

Redmond, John E. (Waterford

Esmonde, Sir Thomas

Lough, Thomas

Redmond, William (Clare)

Evans, Samuel T.

Lundon, W.

Rees, J. D.

Everett, R. Lacey

Lupton, Arnold

Renton, Major Leslie

Farrell, James Patrick

Luttrell, Hugh Fownes

Richards, T.F. (Wolverh'mpt'n.

Ferens, T. R.

Lyell, Charles Henry

Rickett, J. Compton

Ferguson, R. C. Munro

Lynch, H. B.

Ridsdale, E. A.

Ffrench, Peter

Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)

Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) fl

Flavin, Michael Joseph

Macdonald, J.M. (Falkirk B'ghs

Robertson, SirGScott(Bradf'rd,

Flynn, James Christopher

Mackarness, Frederic C.

Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside

Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter

MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.

Robinson, S.

Fuller, John Michael F.

MacVeigh, Charles(Donegal, E.)

Robson, Sir William Snowdon

Fullerton, Hugh

M'Crae, George

Roche. John (Galway, East)

Gibb, James (Harrow)

M'Kenna, Reginald

Roe, Sir Thomas

Ginnell, L.

M'Killop, W.

Rogers, F. E. Newman

Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John

M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

Rose, Charles Day

Greenwood, G. (Peterborough

M'Micking, Major G.

Rowlands, J.

Greenwood, Hamar (York)

Maddison, Frederick

Russell, T. W.

Griffith, Ellis J.

Mallet, Charles E.

Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

Gulland, John W.

Manfield, Harry (Northants)

Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland).

Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.

Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)

Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

Halpin, J.

Marks, G. Croydon(Launceston)

Scarisbrick, T. T. L.

Hammond, John

Marnham, F. J.

Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)

Massie, J.

Schwann, Chas. E. (Manchester

Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)

Meagher, Michael

Scott, A.H. (Ashton-und.-Lyne

Harrington, Timothy

Menzies, Walter

Sears, J. E.

Hart-Davies, T.

Micklem, Nathaniel

Seaverns, J. H.

Harwood, George

Molteno, Percy Alport

Seddon, J.

Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

Mond, A.

Shackleton, David James

Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

Montagu, E. S.

Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, P.

Haworth, Arthur A.

Montgomery, H. H.

Shipman, Dr. John G.)

Hayden, John Patrick

Mooney, J. J.

Silcock, Thomas Ball

Hazel, Dr. A. E.

Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen

Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John

Hazleton, Richard

Morrell, Philip

Sloan, Thomas Henry

Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

Henderson, J.M.(Aberdeen, W.

Murnaghan, George

Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.

Henry, Charles S.

Murphy, John

Snowdon, P.

Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)

Murray, James

Soames, Arthur Wellesley

Higham, John Sharp

Myer, Horatio

Stanger, H. Y.

Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

Napier, T. B.

Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)

Hogan, Michael

Nicholls, George

Steadman, W. C.

Holden, E. Hopkinson

Nicholson, Charles N. (Doncast'r

Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

Hooper, A. G.

Nolan, Joseph

Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)

1318

1319

Strachey, Sir Edward

Waker, H. De R. (Leicester)

Wilkie, Alexander

Straus, B. S. (Mile End)

Walsh, Stephen

Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'rth'n

Sullivan, Donal

Walters, John Tudor

Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)

Sutherland, J. E.

Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent

Wills, Arthur Walters

Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)

Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.

Wilson, Hon. C.H.W. (Hull, W.)

Taylor, John W. (Durham)

Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)

Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough)

Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)

Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)

Wilson, J.W. (Worcestersh. N.)

Tennant, Sir Edward (Salisb'ry

Watt, H. Anderson

Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)

Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)

Wedgwood, Josiah C.

Wood, T. M'Kinnon

Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.

Weir, James Galloway

Woodhouse, Sir JT.(Huddersfi'd

Thomasson, Franklin

White, J.D. (Dumbartonshire)

Young, Samuel

Tomkinson, James

White, Luke (York, E.R.)

Torrance, A. M.

White, Patrick (Meath, North)

TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr.

Toulmin, George

Whitehead, Rowland

Soares and Mr. Winfrey.

Ure, Alexander

Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

Verney, P. W.

Wiles, Thomas

NOES.

Anson, Sir William Reynell

Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersrield)

Anstruther-Gray, Major

Fletcher, J. S.

Nield, Herbert

Arkwright, John Stanhope

Forster, Henry William

Pease, HerbertPike (Darlington

Ashley, W. W.

Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)

Percy, Earl

Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H.

Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

Remnant, James Farquharson

Balcarres, Lord

Haddock, George R.

Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

Balfour, Rt Hn. A. J. (City Lond.)

Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf rd

Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter

Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)

Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.

Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert

Banbury, Sir Frederick George

Hay, Hon. Claude George

Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks

Helmsley, Viscount

Smith, Abel H.(Hertford, East)

Beckett, Hon. Gervase

Hervey, F.W.F(Bury S Edm'ds

Starkey, John R.

Bignold, Sir Arthur

Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

Stone, Sir Benjamin

Boyle, Sir Edward

Hills, J. W.

Talbot, Rt, Hn. J.G(Oxf d Univ.

Bridgeman, W. Clive

Hornby, Sir William Henry

Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Lanark

Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.

Houston, Robert Paterson

Thornton, Percy M.

Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H.

Tumour, Viscount

Castlereagh, Viscount

Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W.

Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire)

Cave, George

Keswick, William

Walrond, Hon. Lionel

Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.

Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)

Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey-

Lane-Fox, G. R.

Willoughby de Eresby, Lord

Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)

Liddell, Henry

Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.)

Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.

Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A.R.

Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

Courthope, G. Loyd

Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Dublin, S)

Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)

Lonsdale, John Brownlee

Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George

Craik, Sir Henry

Lowe, Sir Francis William

Younger, George

Cross, Alexander

Lyttleton, Rt. Hon. Alfred

Dalrymple, Viscount

M'Calmont, Colonel James

TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir

Dixon-Hartland, SirFredDixon

Marks, H. H. (Kent)

Alexander Acland-Hood and

Faber, George Denison (York)

Mason, James F. (Windsor)

Viscount Valentia.

Fell, Arthur

Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

Question put accordingly, "That the words 'relating to compensation for improvements 'be there inserted.'"
The House divided:—Ayes, 88; Noes, 304. (Division List, No. 174).

AYES.

Anson, Sir William Reynell

Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.

Fell, Arthur

Anstruther-Gray, Major

Carson, Et. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

Arkwright, John Stanhope

Castlereagh, Viscount

Fletcher,; J. S.

Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hon Sir H

Cave, George

Forster, Henry Wiliam

Balcarres, Lord

Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

Fuller, John Michael F.

Balfour, Rt Hn. A. J(City Lond.)

Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey-

Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)

Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)

Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)

Haddock, George R.

Banbury, Sir Frederick George

Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H.A.E.

Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford

Beach, Hn Michael Hugh Hicks

Courthope, G. Loyd

Hay, Hon. Claude George

Beaumont, W. C. B. (Hexham)

Craig, Captain James(Down,E.)

Helmsley, Viscount

Beckett, Hon. Gervase

Craik, Sir Henry

Hervey, F.W.F.(Bury S. Edm'ds

Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)

Cross, Alexander

Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

Bignold, Sir Arthur

Dalrymple, Viscount

Hills, J. W.

Boyle, Sir Edward

Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon

Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

Bridgeman, W. Clive

Faber, George Denison (York)

Hornby, Sir William Henry

Houston, Robert Paterson

Morpeth, Viscount

Thornton, Percy M.

Kennaway, Rt. Hon Sir John H.

Nicholson, Wm. G.(Petersfield)

Turnour, Viscount

Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W.

Nield, Herbert

Walker, Col. W. H.(Lancashire)

Keswick, William

Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington

Walrond, Hon. Lionel

Lambton, Kou. Frederick Wm

Percy, Earl

Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)

Lane-Pox, G. R.

Remnant, James Farquharson

Willoughby de Eresby, Lord

Liddell, Henry

Ridsdale, E. A.

Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.

Lockwood, Rt. Hn Lt.-Col, A.R.

Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Dublin, S.)

Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter

Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart.

Lonsdale, John Brownlee

Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George

Lowe, Sir Francis William

Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)

Younger, George

Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred

Starkey, John R.

M'Calmont, Colonel James

Stone, Sir Benjamin

TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir

Marks, H. H. (Kent)

Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G.(Oxf'dUniv.

Alexander Acland-Hood and

Mason, James F. (Windsor)

Tennant, Sir Edward(Salisbury

Viscount Valentia.

Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark)

NOES

Abraham, William (Cork, N.E).

Clough, W.

Harrington, Timothy

Abraham, William (Rhondda)

Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.)

Hart-Davies, T.

Acland, Francis Dyke

Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)

Harwood, George

Adkins, W. Ryland

Condon, Thomas Joseph

Haworth, Arthur A.

Alden, Percy

Cooper, G. J.

Hayden, John Patrick

Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)

Corbett, C.H.(Sussex, EGrinst'd

Hazel, Dr. A. E.

Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

Hazleton, Richard

Astbury, John Meir

Crean, Eugene

Healy, Timothy Michael

Atherley-Jones, L.

Cremer, William Randal

Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

Crombie, John William

Henderson, J. M (Aberdeen, W.)

Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury. E.)

Dalziel, James Henry

Henry, Charles S.

Balfour, Robert (Lanark)

Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan

Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)

Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)

Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

Higham, John Sharp

Barker, John

Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)

Hogan, Michael

Barlow, John Emmott (Somerset

Delany, William

Holden, E. Hopkinson

Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

Devlin, Charles Ramsay(Galway

Hooper, A. G.

Barnard, E. B.

Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)

Horniman, Emslie John

Barran, Rowland Hirst

Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.

Howard, Hon. Geoffrey

Barry, E. (Cork, S.)

Dickinson, W.H.(St Pancras. N.

Hutton, Alfred Eddison

Beale, W. P.

Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.

Hyde, Clarendon

Beauchamp, E.

Dillon, John

Isaacs, Rufus Daniel

Beck, A. Cecil

Dodd, W. H.

Jackson, R. S.

Belloc, Hilaire Joseph Peter R.

Dolan, Charles Joseph

Jacoby, James Alfred

Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.

Donelan, Captain A.

Jones, David Brynmor(Swansea

Bennett, E. N.

Duffy, William J.

Jones, Leif (Appleby)

Billson, Alfred

Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness

Jones, William (Carnarvonshire

Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordshire

Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

Jowett, F. W.

Blake, Edward

Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

Joyce, Michael

Boland, John

Dunne, Major E. Martin (Walsall

Kearley, Hudson E.

Bolton, T.D. (Derbyshire, N.E.)

Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)

Kekewich, Sir George

Brace, William

Erskine, David C.

Kennedy, Vincent Paul

Branch, James

Esmonde, Sir Thomas

Kilbride, Denis

Bright, J. A.

Evans, Samuel T.

Kincaid-Smith, Captain

Brunner, J. F. L. (Lanes.,Leigh)

Everett, R. Lacey

King, Alfred John (Knutsford)

Brunner, Sir John T. (Cheshire)

Farrell, James Patrick

Kitson, Sir James

Bryce, Rt. Hn. James(Aberdeen

Ferens, T. R.

Lambert, George

Bryce, J. A.(Inverness Burghs)

Ferguson, R. C. Munro

Lamont, Norman

Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn

Ffrench, Peter

Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

Buckmaster, Stanley O.

Flavin, Michael Joseph

Layland-Barratt, Francis

Burke, E. Haviland

Flynn, James Christopher

Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras. E.

Burnyeat, J. D. W.

Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter

Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington

Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas

Fullerton, Hugh

Lehmann, R. C.

Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles

Gibb, James (Harrow)

Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich]

Byles, William Pollard

Ginnell, L.

Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral)

Cairns, Thomas

Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)

Lewis, John Herbert

Cameron, Robert

Greenwood, Hamar (York)

Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David

Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight

Griffith, Ellie J.

Lough, Thomas

Cawley, Frederick

Gulland, John W.

Lundon, W.

Channing, Francis Allston

Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.

Lupton, Arnold

Cheetham, John Frederick

Halpin, J.

Luttrell, Hugh Fownes

Churchill, Winston Spencer

Hammond, John

Lyell, Charles Henry

Clarke, C. Goddard

Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)

Lynch, H. B.

Cleland, J. W.

Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)

Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)

1322

1323

Macdonald, J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs

Paul, Herhert

Stanger, H. Y.

Markarness, Frederic C.

Paulton, James Mellor

Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.

MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.

Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)

Steadman, W. C.

MacVeigh, Charles(Donegal, E.)

Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)

Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

M'Crae, George

Philipps, J Wynford(Pembroke

Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)

M'Kenna, Reginald

Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)

Strachey, Sir Edward

M'Killop, W.

Power, Patrick Joseph

Straus, B. S. (Mile End)

M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

Price. C E.(Edinburgh, Central)

Sullivan, Donal

M'Micking, Major C.

Price, Robert John(Norfolk, E.)

Sutherland, J. E.

Maddison, Frederick

Rainy, A. Holland

Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)

Mallet, Charles E.

Raphael, Herbert H.

Taylor, John W. (Durham)

Manfield, Harry (Northants)

Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

Taylor, Theodore C: (Radcliffe)

Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)

Reddy, M.

Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)

Marks, G Croydon (Launceston)

Redmond, John E.(Waterford)

Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)

Marnbam, F. J.

Redmond, William (Clare)

Thomasson, Franklin

Massie, J.

Rees, J. D.

Tomkinson, James

Meagher, Michael

Renton, Major Leslie

Torrance, A. M.

Menzies, Walter

Richards. T. F.(Wolverh'mpt'n

Toulmin, George

Micklem, Nathaniel

Rickett, J. Compton

Ure, Alexander

Molteno, Percy Alport

Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

Verney, F. W.

Mond, A.

Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd

Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)

Montagu, E. S.

Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

Walsh, Stephen

Montgomery, H. H.

Robinson, S.

Walters, John Tudor

Mooney, J. J.

Robson, Sir William Snowdon

Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent)

Morgan, J Lloyd (Carmarthen)

Roche, John (Galway, East)

Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.

Morrell, Philip

Roe, Sir Thomas

Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)

Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

Rogers, F. E. Newman

Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)

Murnaghan, George

Rose, Charles Day

Watt, H. Anderson

Murphy, John

Rowlands, J.

Wedgwood, Josiah C.

Murray, James

Russell, T. W.

Weir, James Galloway

Myer, Horatio

Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)

Napier, T. B.

Samuel, Herbert L.(Cleveland)

White, Luke (York, E.R.)

Nicholls, George

Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

White, Patrick (Meath, North)

Nicholson, CharlesN,.(Doncastr

Scarisbrick, T. T. L.

Whitehead, Rowland

Nolan, Joseph

Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

Norman, Henry

Schwann, Chas E. (Manchester)

Wiles, Thomas

Nussey, Thomas Willans

Scott, A. H.(Ashton under Lyne

Wilkie, Alexander

Nuttall, Harry

Sears, J. E.

Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarth'n

O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

Seaverns, J. H.

Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)

O'Connor, James(Wicklow, W.)

Seddon, J.

Wills, Arthur Walters

O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

Shackleton, David James

Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.

O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

Shaw, Rt, Hon. T.(Hawick B.)

Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.>

O'Doherty, Philip

Shipman, Dr. John G.

Wood, T. M'Kinnon

O'Donnell, T. (Kerry. W.)

Silcock, Thomas Ball

Woodhouse, Sir J.T.(Hudd'rsf'd.

O'Grady. J

Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John

Young, Samuel

O'Hare, Patrick

Sloan, Thomas Henry

O'Malley. William

Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.

O'Shauglmessy, P. J. Parker, James (Halifax)

Smyth, Thomas F.(Leitrim, S.)

Soares and Mr. Winfrey.

Parker, James (Halifax)

Snowdon, P.

Partington, Oswald

Soames, Arthur Wellesley

ME. SOARESclaimed, "That the Question, 'That the words of the Bill to the end of Clause 1 stand part of the Bill, be now put."
The House divided: Ayes, 296;—, 80. (Division List No. 175.)

AYES.

Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.)

Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

Barran, Rowland Hirst

Abraham, William (Rhondda)

Baker, Joseph A.(Finsbury, E.)

Barry, E. (Cork, S.)

Acland, Francis Dyke

Balfour, Robert (Lanark)

Beale, W. P.

Adkins, W. Ryland

Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)

Boauchamp, E.

Alden, Percy

Barker, John

Beaumont, W. C. B. (Hexham),

Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)

Barlow, John Emmott (Somerset

Beck, A. Cecil

Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

Barlow, Percy (Bedfcrd)

Bellairs, Carlyon

Astbury, John Meir

Barnard, E. B.

Belloc, Hilaire Joseph Peter R

Question put, "That the Question, 'That the words of the Bill to the end of Clause 1 stand part, of the Bill' be now put."

Benn, W. (T'w'r Hamlets, S Geo.

Gill, A. H.;

Mallet, Charles E.

Bennett, E. N.

Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)

Manfield, Harry (Northants)

Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)

Greenwood, Hamar (York)

Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln

Billson, Alfred

Gulland, John W.

Marks, G. Croydon(Launceston)

Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordshire

Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.

Marnham, F. J.

Blake, Edward

Halpin, J.

Massie, J.

Boland, John

Hammond, John

Meagher, Michael

Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N.E.)

Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)

Menzies, Walter

Brace, William

Harrington, Timothy

Micklem, Nathaniel

Branch, James

Harwood, George

Molteno, Percy Alport

Bright, J. A.

Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

Mond, A.

Brunner, J.F.L. (Lanes., Leigh)

H worth, Arthur A.

Montagu, E. S.

Brunner, Sir John T. (Cheshire)

Hayden, John Patrick

Montgomery, H. H.

Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs)

Hazel, Dr. A. E.

Mooney, J. J.

Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn

Hazleton, Richard

Morrell, Philip

Buckmaster, Stanley O.

Healy, Timothy Michael

Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

Burke, E. Haviland-

Hedges, A. Paget

Murphy, John

Burnyeat, J. D. W.

Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

Murray, James

Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas

Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.)

Myer, Horatio

Byles, William Pollard

Henry, Charles S.

Napier, T. B.

Cairns, Thomas

Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)

Nicholls, George

Cameron, Robert

Higham, John Sharp

Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r)

Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight

Hobart, Sir Robert

Nolan, Joseph

Cawley, Frederick

Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

Norton, Capt. Cecil William

Channing, Francis Allston

Hogan, Michael

Nuttall, Harry

Cheetham, John Frederick

Holden, E. Hopkinson

O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

Churchill, Winston Spencer

Hooper, A. G.

O'Brien, William (Cork)

Clarke, C. Goddard

Horniman, Emslie John

O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.)

Cleland, J. W.

Howard, Hon. Geoffrey

O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

Clough, W.

Hutton, Alfred Eddison

O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

Coats, Sir T. Glen. (Renfrew, W.)

Hyde, Clarendon

O'Doherty, Philip

Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)

Isaacs, Rufus Daniel

O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)

Condon, Thomas Joseph

Jackson, R. S.

O'Grady, J.

Cooper, G. J.

Jones, David Brynmor (Swansea

O'Hare, Patrick

Corbett, C.H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd

Jones, Leif (Appleby)

O'Malley, William

Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

Jones, William (Carnarvonshire

O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

Crean, Eugene

Joyce, Michael

Parker, James (Halifax)

Cremer, William Randal

Kearley, Hudson E.

Partington, Oswald

Crombie, John William

Kekewich, Sir George

Paul, Herbert

Dalziel, James Henry

Kennedy, Vincent Paul

Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)

Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan

Kilbride, Denis

Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)

Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

Kincaid-Smith, Captain

Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton)

Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)

King, Alfred John (Knutsford)

Philipps, J. Wynford (Pembroke

Delany, William

Kitson, Sir James

Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) J

Devlin, Charles Ramsay (Galway)

Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

Power, Patrick Joseph

Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancras, N

Lamont, Norman

Price, C.E.(Edinburgh, Central

Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.

Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

Price, Robert John (Norfolk, E.)

Dillon. John

Layland-Barratt, Francis

Rainy, A. Holland

Dodd, W. H.

Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras, E.

Raphael, Herbert H.

Dolan, Charles Joseph

Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington

Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

Donelan, Captain A.

Lehmann, R. C.

Reddy, M.

Duffy, William J.

Lever, A-Levy(Essex, Harwich)

Redmond, John E. (Waterford)

Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness

Lewis, John Herbert

Redmond, William (Clare)

Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David

Rees, J. D.

Dunn, A, Edward (Camborne)

Lough, Thomas

Renton, Major Lesie

Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)

Lundon, W.

Richards, T.F.(Wolverh'mpt'n)

Erskine, David C.

Lupton, Arnold

Rickett, J. Corapton

Esmonde, Sir Thomas

Luttrell, Hugh Fownes

Ridsdale, E. A.

Evans, Samuel T.

Lyell, Charles Henry

Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

Everett, R. Lacey

Lynch, H. B.

Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd

Farrell, James Patrick

Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)

Roberston, J. M. (Tyneside)

Ferens, T. R.

Macdonald, J.M.(FalkirkB'ghs

Robinson, S.

Ferguson, R. C. Munro

Mackarness, Frederic C.

Robson, Sir William Snowdon

Ffrench, Peter

Mac Veagh,. Jeremiah (Down, S.

Roche John (Galway, East)]

Flavin, Michael Joseph

MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)

Roe, Sir Thomas

Flynn, James Christopher

M'Crae, George

Rogers, F. E. Newman

Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter

M'Killop, W.

Rose, Charles Day

Fuller, John Michael F.

M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

Rowlands, J.

Fullerton, Hugh

M'Micking, Major G.

Russell, T. W.

Gibb, James (Harrow)

Maddison, Frederick

Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

1326

1327

Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland

Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney

Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)

Watt, H. Anderson

Scarisbrick, T. T. L.

Strachey, Sir Edward

Wedgwood, Josiah C.

Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

Straus, B. S. (Mile End)

Weir, James Galloway

Schwann, Chas. E. (Manchester)

Sullivan, Donal

White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire).

Scott, A.H. (Ashton under Lyne

Sutherland, J. E.

White, Luke (York, E.R.)

Sears, J. E.

Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)

White, Patrick (Meath, North)

Seaverns, J. H.

Taylor, John W. (Durham)

Whitehead, Rowland

Shackleton, David James

Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe

Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.

Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)

Wiles, Thomas

Shipman, Dr. John G.

Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)

Wilkie, Alexander

Silcock, Thomas Ball

Tomkinson, James

Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarth'n

Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John

Torrance, A. M.

Wills, Arthur Walters

Sloan, Thomas Henry

Toulmin, George

Wilson, Hn. C. H. W. (Hull, W.>

Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

Ure. Alexander

Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)

Smyth, Thos. E. (Leitrim, S.)

Verney, F. W.

Wood, T. M'Kinnon

Snowdon, P.

Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)

Woodhouse, Sir J.T. (Hud'drsf'd

Soames, Arthur Wellesley

Walters, John Tudor

Young, Samuel

Stanger, H. Y.

Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent)

Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.

Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.

TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr:

Steadman, W. C.

Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)

Soares and Mr. Winfrey.

NOES.

Anstruther-Gray, Major

Fletcher, J. S.

Nussey, Thomas Willans

Arkwright, John Stanhope

Forster, Henry William

Pease, HerbertPike(Darlington

Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H.

Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)

Percy, Earl

Balcarres, Lord

Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

Remnant, James Farquharson

Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J.(City Lond.

Haddock, George R.

Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter

Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)

Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford

Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

Banbury, Sir Frederick George

Hay, Hon. Claude George

Smith, Abel H.(Hertford, East)

Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks

Helmsley, Viscount

Starkey, John R.

Beckett, Hon. Gervase

Hervey, F.W.F.(Bury S. Emd'ds

Stone, Sir Benjamin

Bignold, Sir Arthur

Hill, Sir Clement(Shrewsbury)

Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'dUniv.

Boyle, Sir Edward

Hill, Henry Staveley (Staff'sh.)

Tennant, Sir Edward(Salisbury

Bridgeman, W. Clive

Hills, J. W.

Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark)

Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.

Hornby, Sir William Henry

Thornton, Percy M.

Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

Houston, Robert Paterson

Turnour, Viscount

Castlereagh, Viscount

Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W

Walker, ColW. H. (Lancashire)

Cave, George

Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm

Walrond, Hon. Lionel

Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

Lane-Fox, G. R.

Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)

Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey-

Liddell, Henry

Willoughby de Eresby, Lord

Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.

Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A.R

Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)

Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.

Long, Col- Chas. W. (Evesham)

Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)

Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin. S

Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart-

Courthope, G. Loyd

Lowe. Sir Francis William

Wyndham, Rt. Hn. George

Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)

Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred

Younger, George

Craik, Sir Henry

Marks, H. H. (Kent)

Cross, Alexander

Mason, James F. (Windsor)

TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Siir

Dalrymple, Viscount

Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

Alexander Acland-Hood and

Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon

Morpeth, Viscount

Viscount Valentia.

Faber, George Denison (York)

Nicholson Wm. G. (Petersfield

Fell, Arthur

Nield, Herbert

Question put accordingly, "That the words of the Bill down to the end of Clause 1 stand part of the Bill."
The House divided:—Ayes, 290; Noes,. 74. (Division List No. 176.)

Barry, E. (Cork, S.)

Flavin, Michael Joseph

M'Laren, H. D..(Stafford, W.)

Beale, W. P.

Flynn, James Christopher

M'Micking, Major G.

Beauchamp, E.

Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter

Maddison, Frederick.

Beck, A. Cecil

Fuller, John Michael F.

Mallet, Charles E..

Bellairs, Carlyton

Fullerton, Hugh

Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln

Belloc, Hilarie Joseph Peter R.

Gibb, James (Harrow)

Marks, G. Croydon (Launoeston)

Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S.Geo.

Ginnell, L.

Marnham, F. J.

Bennett, E. N.

Greenwood, G. (Peterborough);

Massie, J.

Bethell, T. R. (Essex Maldon)

Greenwood, Hamar (York)

Meagher, Michael

Billson, Alfred

Gulland, John W.

Menzies, Walter

Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordshire)

Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.

Micklem, Nathaniel

Blake, Edward

Halpin, J.

Molteno, Percy Alport

Boland, John

Hammond, John

Mond, A.

Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N.E.

Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)i

Montagu, E. S.

Brace, William

Harrington, Timothy

Montgomery, H. H.

Branch, James

Harwood, George

Mooney, J. J.

Bright, J. A.

Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

Morrell, Philip

Brunner, J.F.L. (Lanes., Leigh)

Haworth, Arthur A.

Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

Brunner, Sir John T. (Cheshire)

Hayden, John Patrick

Murphy, John

Bryce, J. A.(InvernessBurghs)

Hazel, Dr. A. E.

Murray, James

Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn

Hazleton, Richard

Myer, Horatio

Buckmaster, Stanley O.

Healy, Timothy Michael

Napier, T. B.

Burke, E. Haviland

Hedges, A. Paget

Nicholls, George

Burns, Rt. Hon. John

Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r)

Burnyeat, J. D. W.

Henderson, J. M.(Aberdeen, W.)

Nolan, Joseph

Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas

Henry, Charles S.

Norton, Capt. Cecil William

Byles, William Pollard

Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)

Nussey, Thomas William

Cairns, Thomas

Higham, John Sharp

Nuttall, Harry

Cameron, Robert

Hobart, Sir Robert

O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

Causton. Rt. Hn. Richard Knight

Hogan, Michael

O'Brien, William (Cork)

Cawley, Frederiok

Holden, E. Hopkinson

O'Connor, James (Wicklow. W.),

Channing, Francis Allston

Hooper, A. G.

O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

Cheetham, John Frederick

Horniman, Emslie John

O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

Churchill, Winston Spencer

Howard, Hon. Geoffrey

O'Doherty, Philip

Clarke, C. Goddard

Hutton, Alfred Eddison

O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)

Cleland, J. W.

Hyde, Clarendon

O'Grady, J.

Clough, W.

Isaacs, Rufus Daniel

O'Hare, Patrick

Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.

Jackson, R. S.

O'Malley, William

Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)

Jones, David Brynmor (Swansea

O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

Condon, Thomas Joseph

Jones, Leif (Appleby)

Parker, James (Halifax)

Cooper, G. J.

Jones, William (Carnarvonshire

Partington, Oswald

Corbett, C.H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd

Joyce, Michael

Paul, Herbert

Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

Kearley, Hudson E.

Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)

Crean, Eugene

Kekewich, Sir George

Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)

Cremer, William Randal

Kennedy, Vincent Paul

Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton)

Crombie, John William

Kilbride, Denis

Philipps, J. Wynford (Pembroke)

Cross, Alexander

Kincaid-Smith, Captain

Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)

Dalziel, James Henry

King, Alfred John (Knutsford)

Power, Patrick Joseph

Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan

Kitson, Sir James

Price, C.E.(Edinburgh, Central)

Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

Price, Robert John(Norfolk, E.)

Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)

Lamont, Norman

Rainy, A. Holland

Delany, William

Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

Raphael, Herbert H.

Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway

Layland-Barratt, Francis

Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancras, N.

Lea, Hugh Cecil(St. Pancras, E.)

Reddy, M.

Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.

Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington

Redmond, John E. (Waterford)

Dillon, John

Lehmann, R. C.

Redmond, William (Clare)

Dodd, W. H.

Lever, A. Levy(Essex, Harwich)

Rees, J. D.

Dolan, Charles Joseph

Lewis, Herbert John

Renton, Major Leslie

Donelan, Captain A.

Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n.

Duffy, William J.

Lough, Thomas

Rickett, J, Compton

Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness

Lundon, W.

Ridsdale, E. A.

Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

Lupton, Arnold

Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

Luttrell, Hugh Fownes

Robertson, Sir G. Scott(Bradf'rd

Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)

Lyell, Charles Henry

Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

Erskine, David C.

Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)

Robinson, S.

Esmonde, Sir Thomas

Macdonald, J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs)

Robson, Sir William Snowdon

Evans, Samuel T.

Mackarness, Frederic C.

Roche, John (Galway, East)

Everett, R. Lacey

MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.

Roe, Sir Thomas

Farrell, James Patrick

MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)

Rogers, F. E. Newman

Ferguson, R. C. Munro

M'Crae, George

Rose, Charles Day]

Ffrench, Peter

M'Killop, W.

Rowlands, J.

1330

1331

Russell, T. W.

Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)

Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)

Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

Steadman, W. C.

Watt, H. Anderson

Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)

Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

Wedgwood, Josiah C.

Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)

Weir, James Galloway

Scarisbrick, T. T. L.

Straus, B. S. (Mile End)

White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)

Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

Sullivan, Donal

White, Luke (York, E. R.)

Schwann, Chas. E.(Manchester)

Sutherland, J. E.

White, Patrick (Meath, North)

Scott, A.H.(Ashton under Lyne

Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)

Whitehead, Rowland

Sears, J. E.

Taylor, John W. (Durham)

Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

Seaverns, J. H.

Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe

Wiles, Thomas

Shackleton, David James

Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)

Wilkie, Alexander

Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.

Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)

Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'th'n

Shipman, Dr. John G.

Tomkinson, James

Wills, Arthur Walters

Silcock, Thomas Ball

Torrance, A. M.

Wilson, Hon. C.H.W. (Hull, W.)

Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John

Ure, Alexander

Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)

Sloan, Thomas Henry

Verney, F. W.

Wood, T. M'Kinnon

Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)

Woodhouse, Sir J.T.(Huddersf'd

Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)

Walters, John Tudor

Young, Samuel

Snowdon, P.

Ward, John(Stoke upon Trent)

Soames, Arthur Wellesley

Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.

TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr.

, Stanger, H. Y.

Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)

Soares and Mr. Winfrey.

NOES.

Acland-Hood, Rt Hn. Sir Alex. F.

Fell, Arthur

Pease, HerbertPike (Darlington

Anstruther-Gray, Major

Fletcher, J. S.

Percy, Earl

Arkwright, John Stanhope

Forster, Henry William

Remnant, James Farquharson

Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H.

Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)

Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter

Balcarres, Lord

Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (CityLond.

Haddock, George R.

Starkey, John R.

Banbury, Sir Frederick George

Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford

Stone, Sir Benjamin

Beckett, Hon. Gervase

Hay, Hon. Claude George

Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G. (Oxf'dUniv.

Bignold, Sir Arthur

Helmsley, Viscount

Tennant, Sir Edward(Salisbury)

Boyle, Sir Edward

Hervey, F.W.F.(BuryS.Edm'ds

Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark)

Bridgeman, W. Clive

Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

Thornton, Percy M.

Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.

Hills, J. W.

Turnour, Viscount

Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

Hornby, Sir Willian Henry

Valentia, Viscount

Castlereagh, Viscount

Houston, Robert Paterson]

Walker, Col. W.H.(Lancashire)

Cave, George

Kenyon-Slaney. Rt. Hon. Col. W.

Walrond, Hon. Lionel

Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.

Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)

Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey

Lane-Fox, G. R.

Willoughby, de Eresby Lord.

Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)

Liddell, Henry

Wilson, Stanley A.(York, E.R.)

Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.

Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A.R.

Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)

Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S.

Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

Courthope, G. Loyd

Lowe, Sir Francis William

Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George

Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)

Marks, H. H. (Kent)

Younger, George

Craik, Sir Henry

Mason, James F. (Winsdor)

Dalrymple, Viscount

Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.

Dixon-Hartland, Sir FredDixon

Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)

Hicks Beach and Viscount

Faber, George Denison (York)

Nield, Herbert

Morpeth.

And, it being after Five of the clock, further consideration of the Bill, as amended, stood adjourned.
Bill, as amended (by the Standing Committee), to be further considered upon Wednesday next.
Whereupon Mr. SPEAKER, in pursuance of Standing Order No. 3, adjourned the House without Question put.
Adjourned at twenty-one minutes after Five o'clock till Monday next.

EARLDOM OF NORFOLK.
Message to the Commons for leave for the proper officer to attend the Committee for Privileges of this House in order to his being examined as a witness, and that he do bring with him the Journals of the House of Commons in order to their being produced before the said Committee.
The Lord Castlemaine took the Oath.

PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS.
The LORD CHANCELLOR acquainted the House that the Clerk of the Parliaments had laid upon the Table the Certificates from the Examiners that the further Standing Orders applicable to the following Bills have been complied with: St. John's (Westminster) Improvement; Cork City Railways and Works.
The same were ordered to lie on the Table.
Midland Railway Bill. The King's consent signified; and Bill reported from the Select Committee, with Amendments.
London and South Western Railway Bill. Reported from the Select Committee, with Amendments.
Epsom and Ewell Gas Bill. Reported from the Select Committee, with Amendments.
Uxbridge Gas Bill. Reported from the Select Committee, with Amendments.
Waterford Corporation and Bridge Bill. Reported from the Select Committee, with Amendments.
Electric Lighting Provisional Orders (No. 4.) Bill [H.L.]. Reported from the Select Committee, with Amendments, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.
Poole Corporation Water Bill. Moved, That the order made on the 26th day of March last, "That no Private Bill brought
1238
from the House of Commons shall be read a second time after the 19th day of June next," be dispensed with, and that the Bill be now read 2a; agreed to; Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed. The Committee to be proposed by the Committee of Selection.
London County Council (Money) Bill Moved, That the order made on the 26th day of March last, "That no Private Bill brought from the House of Commons shall be read a second time after the 19th day of June next," be dispensed with; agreed to.
Barry Railway Bill [H.L.]. Returned from the Commons agreed to.
Sutton, Southcoates, and Drypool Gas Bill. Returned from the Commons with the Amendment agreed to.
London County Council (Money) Bill. To be read 2a on Thursday next.—(The Chairman of Committees.)
Pier and Harbour Provisional Orders (No. 1) Bill; Pier and Harbour Provisional Orders (No. 2) Bill; Water Provisional Order Bill. Moved, That the order made on the 26th day of March last, "That no Provisional Order Confirmation Bill brought from the House of Commons shall be read a second time after the 19th day of June next," be dispensed with, and that the Bills be now read 2a; agreed to; Bills read 2a accordingly.
Electric Lighting Provisional Orders (No. 5) Bill; Electric Lighting Provisional Orders No. 6) Bill. Read 3a (according to order), and passed.
Sea Fisheries Provisional Order Bill. House in Committee (according to order). Bill reported without Amendment. Standing Committee negatived; and Bill to be read 3a on Monday next.
Pier and Harbour Provisional Orders (No. 1) Bill; Pier and Harbour Provisional Orders (No. 2) Bill. Committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday next.
Water Provisional Order Bill. Committed: The Committee to be proposed by the Committee of Selection.
Local Government Provisional Order (Housing of Working Classes) Bill (No. 145); Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 8) Bill (No. 146); Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 11) Bill (No. 147). Brought from the Commons and read 1a; to be printed; and referred to the Examiners.

RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.
  Sixtieth Report of the Commissioners in Lunacy, 1906. Presented (by Command), and ordered to lie on the Table.
  PUBLIC WORKS LOAN BILL.
  Thirty-first Annual Report of the Public Works Loan Board, 1905–1906; with appendices.
  Eighty-fourth Report of the Commissioners of His Majesty's Woods, Forests, and Land Revenues, dated 29th June, 1906.

  POST OFFICE (MONEY ORDERS).
  The Money Order Amendment (No. 1) Regulations, 1906, dated 22nd June, 1906.
  Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and ordered to lie on the Table.

  METROPOLITAN AMBULANCE SERVICE.
  Petition for inquiry as to desirability of; of borough of Kensington; read, and ordered to lie on the Table.
  JUSTICES OF THE PEACE (NO. 2) BILL.
  Read 3a (according to order), with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.
  MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS BILL.
  Read 3a (according to order), with the Amendment, and passed, and returned to the Commons.

  ARMY QUALIFYING EXAMINATION.
  THE EARL OF MAYO: My Lords, I beg to ask His Majesty's Government if they are aware that the next Army qualifying examination is fixed for September
  1240
  18th, a date which coincides with the termination of the public schools summer holidays, and one that appears to be utterly inconvenient to everyone concerned. This is a most unfortunate time to have an examination, because it would spoil the boys' holidays. It is obvious that boys preparing for an examination could not be away from their work all that time, and the parents would either have to engage tutors during the holidays to work the boys up for the examination or else the boys would have to go to crammers. This would be most unfair to the public schools when they are endeavouring to pass boys direct into the Army and to do away altogether with the undesirable process of cramming. The time fixed for the examination is also one at which the masters as well as the boys are away, and I hope, therefore, that His Majesty's Government will alter the date by at least one month if not two months, so as to enable the boys to continue their work at school when they get back.
  THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (The Earl of PORTSMOUTH): My Lords, this Question only appeared on the Paper this morning, and I think my noble friend has forgotten that to-day is a holiday in the War Office. I have had no opportunity, therefore, of inquiring into the matter at all, or of communicating with any one upon it. If the noble Earl will postpone his Question until after Monday, I will communicate the answer to him direct, or, if he considers it desirable to put it again in the House, I shall be glad, after looking into the circumstances, to give him a reply
  THE EARL OF MAYO: I certainly will not trouble the House by putting the Question again if the answer which the noble Earl communicates to me is satisfactory, but if it is not I must be allowed to raise the matter again.

  SOUTH AFRICAN LABOUR.
  LORD HARRIS: My Lords, I beg to ask His Majesty's Government whether there is any truth in the rumour that they contemplate reintroducing indiscriminate labour recruiting for the Witwatersrand from Portuguese territory; and to move for Papers. As your Lordships probably

  1241
  know, the recruiting of natives in South Africa for the mines has been undertaken by a body called the Wit waters rand Native Labour Association. The system of that Association has been substituted for one which prevailed before the war, and in a few words I will explain to your Lordships what went on before the Association was formed.
  Up to 1889 the demand for labour on the Witwatersrand was not excessive, and although even then the Transvaal natives themselves did not come forward in large numbers, still there was an ample, or more than an ample, supply of labour coming through the East coast ports. That prevailed for some two or three years. The natives paid their own expenses to get to Johannesburg, and the rate of pay was, I believe, Is. a day. But about 1889 or 1890, the demand for labour suddenly increased, and increased considerably, and the mining companies had to send out men as recruiting agents. These agents were paid a commission per head for each native brought in, as well as their travelling expenses. That went on quite satisfactorily for a few years, until the demand for labour became really severe, and there grew up a system of monstrous tyranny on the part of these labour agents and touts.
  These men were carrying on a nefarious trade with natives on their way to the Witwatersrand, and to such an extent was this done, that the mining companies were very heavily mulcted in order to get the labour they required. The fees to the agents rose to as much as £4 and £4 15s. 0d. per head, and the travelling expenses also increased. At the same time the wages of the boys themselves very nearly doubled. The iniquities committed were really serious. In order to prevent this practice by the touts of waylaying natives who were on their way to the mines the Pass Law was adopted by the Boer Government, but it was so inefficiently administered that natives were unable to get the passes which they should have had, and were punished for not having them. Then the war came, and large numbers of natives left the Transvaal. Whilst the war was going on the mining companies decided to form an association to put a stop to the depredations of these labour touts and to improve the conditions under which the natives were recruited and passed from
  1242
  the frontier to Johannesburg. It was principally for this reason that the association was formed.
  The association is practically a company, but one which distributes no profits. It is really a co-operative society for the purpose of obtaining labour in the most legitimate way, and its work is carried on under circumstances which should beeopen to inspection by Government and should be of the best possible character. That is the system which prevails now, but there is a rumour, which is supported by cabled information from Johannesburg, that His Majesty's Government contemplate making a change and setting up competition by giving licences to other persons to recruit. Your Lordships will understand that about 60 per cent, or more of the Kaffir labour on the mines comes from Portuguese territory, and it is there that the principal servants of the association are employed. These are men well known in South Africa, and of the highest respectability. Of course, a certain number of those persons who were engaged in obtaining labour before the war did not get employment under the association. There are, therefore, a number of men in South Africa who are indignant at having lost their occupation, and are jealous of the association.
  Any stone is good enough to throw at the mining companies just now, encouraged as these people have been by some Members of His Majesty's Government; and one of the points of attack during the last few months has been the system of the Witwatersrand Native Labour Association. It has been declared that their system is ineffective, and that the mining houses deliberately avoid getting as much native labour as is possible in order to bolster up the Chinese importation. Whatever faults may have been attributed to the mining companies, it is never suggested that they are not astute persons. They would be extremely foolish if they did not get as much Kaffir labour as possible, because it is cheaper than Chinese labour, and it is the fact that at this moment there are crushing mines which cannot get as much labour as they could wish.
  The form of attack on the association is that they are not recruiting Kaffirs as successfully as they could if they chose, and that it is only necessary to give these

  1243
  licences to other people and thousands of additional Kaffirs will be forthcoming. That has been gone into most carefully on the spot by the secretary of the Witwatersrand Native Labour Association, who himself was a Government servant at one time, and he has shown most successfully in an elaborate report that these promises are quite fallacious. It was demonstrated before the Native Labour Commission by the same gentleman that promises of producing Kaffir labour which had been made by various people were, when put to the test, not fulfilled.
  The point upon which I lay stress is this. The result of the introduction of this system has been a vast improvement to the Kaffirs themselves. Under the old system, anybody who could get a licence was empowered to go across country, pick up natives and bring them to the Witwatersrand, regardless of their comfort during the journey. All that has been changed. Every Kaffir recruited in Portuguese East Africa has to be brought to one place, where he is medically inspected to make sure that he is fit for the trying climate, where he is informed by a Government official of the conditions of service, and where he is supplied with blankets so that his journey up to the higher altitudes may be made in reasonable comfort. All these beneficial changes have been brought about by the system of the Witwatersrand Native Labour I Association, and I do deprecate most strongly, without His Majesty's Government being advised from the other side to the contrary, any idea that may be lurking in their minds of setting up competition in this matter. The association will not suffer by it; it is too strong; but the person who I am afraid will suffer is the Kaffir, who will run the risk of being tempted away by men who are not as reliable, not as responsible, and not as respectable as the officers of the association, and who may mislead him by promises which may not be fulfilled.
  I should be glad if the noble Earl could tell us what are the intentions of His Majesty's Government in regard to this matter. If they are not prepared to accept the responsibility of deciding upon the question of Chinese labour, why are they taking upon themselves
  1244
  the responsibility of deciding upon a question of this kind? The people on the spot are just as good judges of what they require in this matter as on the Chinese question. In a speech which the noble Earl made the other day he advocated the policy of trusting the man on the spot. I should like to know whether Lord Selborne has reported upon the question of the efficiency of the Witwatersrand Native Labour Association, and whether he advises the setting up of licencees to compete with the association. I should be glad to know whether he has consulted a very eminent Portuguese official, lately the Governor-General in Portuguese East Africa and now the-Minister for the Colonies at Lisbon, who. has an intimate knowledge of what is best for Portuguese East Africa, and who, I am told, has the very strongest objection to recruiting being handed over to any one but a strong association recognised by the Government, and whose-operations are, so to speak, inspected by Government. I hope the noble Earl will be able to give satisfactory answers to-these questions. I can assure him that this is a serious matter, and I trust that if any papers have been received upon the subject he will consent to lay them on the Table.
  THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (The Earl of ELGIN): My Lords, to the Question of my noble friend as it appears on the Paper, I think the briefest and most accurate answer would be a simple negative. His Majesty's Government do not contemplate reintroducing indiscriminate labour recruiting for the Witwatersrand from Portuguese territory, and therefore I do not think it is necessary for me to comment upon, or add anything to, the description which the noble Lord has given of what took place before the war under the system he condemns. I might just say that, so far as His Majesty's Government are concerned, their policy would essentially be directed to the improvement of the condition of the natives, and to safeguarding their rights, and would certainly not revert to practices such as the noble Lord has described.
  The noble Lord has told us of the origin of the Witwatersrand Native Labour Association and how they came to take up the recruiting of native labour

  1245
  for the mines. He described the association very appropriately as a co-operative society. I venture to think that a very good description because the whole essence of its position was that it represented the mine owners and those interested in the working of the mines for which this labour was recruited. It it is essentially a voluntary association. It does not depend on any official sanction; it was the deliberate action of the mine owners themselves to combine for this object. I am not prepared to deny that having a single agency for a purpose of this kind has considerable advantages. But all depends on the association having at its back the force by which it was originated; and if it is found that there are substantial interests connected with the mines of the same nature as those for which the association was formed, or that some of those who took part in the formation of the association are not satisfied with the state of things as they now exist, then the position of this cooperative or voluntary society becomes considerably modified.
  I was rather surprised that the noble Lord made no reference to an answer which was given on behalf of His Majesty's Government ten days ago in another place,† and as it very precisely defined the position we take up, I would ask your Lordships to allow me to read at. The question was—
  "Whether the Government are aware that the sole right to recruit Kaffirs is enjoyed by the Witwatersrand Native Labour Association; whether they are prepared to put an end to this monopoly; and whether they will throw open recruiting of Kaffirs to other responsible persons or bodies."
  The Answer given by the Undersecretary was—
  "The Witwatersrand Native Labour Association is a voluntary union of all or most of the principal mineowners to regularise and control the recruiting of native labourers for the mines—"
  LORD HARRIS: My information is that all the mining groups are in cooperation.
  THE EARL OF ELGIN: I am quite willing to take it that they were at one time.
  LORD HARRIS: They are now.
  † See (4) Debates, clviii., 1363.
  THE EARL OF ELGIN: The reply given on behalf of the Government proceeded—
  "It occupies a commanding position so far as recruiting in British South Africa is concerned, and enjoys a practical monoply in respect of British Central Africa and Portuguese East Africa. Although this arrangement constitutes a great improvement upon the free recruiting system which it has replaced, it is not itself without serious disadvantages. His Majesty's Government are not unwilling to permit recruiting on equal terms by other bodies; but their statuz, substance, and responsibility must be clearly established beforehand in each particular case, in order that there may be no risk of the natives being deceived by extravagant promises or ill-used on their way to the mines."
  I hope your Lordships will understand from that answer that there is no intention of considering recruiting by agents who may have lost their occupation in consequence of the changes that have taken place since the war. What is in contemplation is to meet the objection of substantial mining interests which are not contented with the association, and do not consider it, as the noble Lord does, as representative of the whole of those interests.
  I would remind your Lordships that this question of recruiting in Portuguese East Africa depends on an Agreement which was concluded between Lord Milner as High Commissioner and the Governor-General of Mozambique in December, 1901. In the second Article of that Agreement it is laid down that the collectors of labour are to be accepted by both parties, and I maintain that in the Answer which I have read, that provision is provided for, and that an inquiry into the status, substance, and responsibility of the persons who apply for permission to recruit does carry out on our side the conditions of that Article.
  For the rest the matter remains with the Portuguese Government. It is for the Portuguese Governor-General, and for him alone, to give permits for recruiters. Under these circumstances we have had to consider the necessity of communications, not only with the High Commissioner, as the noble Lord suggested, but also possibly with the Portuguese authorities. Those communications are still proceeding, and I am therefore not in a position to give a final and definite answer as to what may be the outcome. Nor am I able to say with

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  precision what Papers I shall be able to lay upon the Table of the House, but I can assure the noble Lord that His Majesty's Government have nothing to conceal in this matter. They are simply working out the policy described in the answer given in the other House, and which I have quoted. I shall be quite prepared, when the time comes, to give your Lordships any Papers in connection with this subject that I can reasonably be expected to produce.
  House adjourned at live minutes past Five o'clock, till Monday next, Eleven o'clock.