Sitting of 11 August 1905

Preamble
The House met at half-past Ten of the Clock.
RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.
  PUBLIC HEALTH ACTS (AMENDMENT) BILL [LORDS].
  Paper [communicated this day] to be printed. [No. 343.]
  SUNDAY CLOSING (SHOPS) BILL [LORDS].
  Paper [communicated this day] to be printed. [No. 344.]
  POST OFFICE (MONEY ORDERS),
  Copy presented, of the Postal Order (Colonial) Amendment (No. 5) Regulations, 1905, dated 31st July, 1905 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.

  SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE.
  Account presented, of receipts and expenditure of the Paymaster-General
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  on behalf of the Supreme Court of Judicature in respect of the Funds of Suitors of the Court in the year ended 28th February, 1905, and of Account of the National Debt Commissioners for the same period in respect of Funds held by them on behalf of the Supreme Court of Judicature, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor-General thereon [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 340.]

  NATIONAL EDUCATION (IRELAND).
  Return presented, relative thereto ordered 10th August; Mr. Boland]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 341.]
  LOCAL AUTHORITIES (SCOTLAND) (FEMALE INSPECTORS).
  Return presented, relative thereto [ordered 10th August; Sir Charles; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 342.]

  MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
  That they have agreed to—Isle of Man (Customs) Bill; Unemployed Workmen Bill; Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) Bill; East India Loans (Railways) Bill; Naval Works Bill; Expiring Laws Continuance Bill; Public Works Loans Bill; Provisional Order (Marriages; Bill, without Amendment.
  Public Health Acts (Amendment) Bill [Lords], and Sunday Closing (Shops) Bill [Lords]. That they communicate Copies of Reports from the Select Committees appointed by their Lordships in the present Session of Parliament on the Public Health Acts (Amendment) Bill [Lords] and the Sunday Closing (Shops) Bill [Lords], together with the Minutes of Evidence, Proceedings of the Committees, etc., as desired by this House.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS CIRCULATED WITH THE VOTES.

  Learners in Belfast Post Office.
  MR. SLOAN: To ask the Postmaster-General whether he is aware

  995
  that six female learners who entered the service at Belfast upwards of three and a-half years ago, and who have been fully qualified for appointment for almost three years, are still employed at a salary of 5s. per week, with little prospect of appointment for a long time to come; and whether, in view of his assurance that he was devising some scheme for the improvement of all those similarly circumstanced, he can now give any definite announcement on the subject.
  (Answered by Lord Stanley.) These learners, none of whom, however, have yet completed three years service, receive 16s. a week when acting as substitutes for absent officers, and 5s. per week when not acting. All who had served for two years or more might have received a higher constant rate of pay than 5s. a week, but they preferred the varying rates stated above.

  Assistant Woman Superior in Charge of Donegal Square Post Office, Belfast.
  MR. SLOAN: To ask the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that the assistant woman, superior at present in charge of the Donegal Square branch of the Belfast Post Office has reached the retiring age of sixty; and whether, seeing that when a claim was made some three years ago that she should perform rotation duties with other women superiors, the memorialists were asked to withdraw their petition on the assurance that she would, in the course of a couple of years, retire on pension, he will explain why it has been decided to further retain her services for a period of five years.
  (Answered by Lord Stanley.) I am not aware of the circumstances to which the hon. Member refers, but I am making inquiry in the matter, and will communicate with him.

  Appointment of Additional Linemen and Foremen in the Post Office Service.
  MR. BENN: To ask the Postmaster-General whether, in view of the proposed increase of established linemen and foremen, as notified in the Civil Service Estimates for 1905 and 1906, he can state the reason for the delay in creating the appointments; whether the
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  persons, when appointed, will be required to perform fifty-four hours per week, that is, throe and a-half hours longer than the present average; and whether the appointments, where made, will date back from the commencement of the present financial year, 1905.
  (Answered by Lord Stanley.) Some inquiry is necessary before I can give a full reply to the hon. Member, but I will communicate my Answer to him as soon as possible.

  Evening Mail Despatches from Enniskillen.
  MR. JORDAN: To ask the Postmaster-General if he is aware that the people of Enniskillen and the surrounding district desire an extension of the time of despatching their British and foreign evening letters; and if he will so arrange that the towns and counties to the east of Enniskillen, including Armagh, Monaghan, Cavan, and part of South Down and North Louth, can despatch their mails by the evening steamer from Greenore.
  (Answered by Lord Stanley.) I fear that the amount of correspondence available is insufficient to justify the establishment of despatches from Enniskillen and the other towns mentioned by the hon. Member. I am, however, further considering the question.

  Suggested Stoppage of Mail Trains at Balla Junction.
  DR. AMBROSE: To ask the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that the mail train from Dublin to Westport does not stop at Balla Junction either on the outgoing or return journey; and whether, seeing that this state of things causes inconvenience to passengers who wish to alight at Balla Junction, he will see that a stop of a few minutes is made there.
  (Answered by Lord Stanley.) As the hon. Member was informed in reply to a similar Question some two years ago, a regular stoppage of the mail train at Balla, which is a comparatively small village, would not be justified. There is, however, no objection on the part of the Post Office to the train being specially

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  stopped on exceptional occasions, such as a local cattle fair, and the secretary to the Post Office in Dublin will deal with any applications which may be addressed to him.

  Clare County Council Scheme for Employ- ment of Direct Labour on the Roads.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the Clare County Council have formulated, during the last two years, two schemes for employing direct labour on the roads of the county, and that the Local Government Board has disallowed each scheme in succession; will he say what was the reason of the disallowance in each case, and how long did the Board take in each case to make its decision known; and whether some simpler and more speedy method of bringing direct labour schemes into operation than that at present in existence can be devised by the Board.
  (Answered by Mr. Walter Long.) The first scheme was adopted on 30th January last, and received by the Local Government Board on 15th February. Appeals were lodged during February and March. It was then found that the county council had failed to carry out the prescribed regulations in one particular. The county council, therefore, proceeded on 20th April to make a new provisional declaration, which they finally adopted on 13th June. Under the existing Orders, the council can only make these declarations at their statutory half-yearly meetings, which the meetings of April 20th and June 13th were not. The Board at once informed the county council accordingly, and the council now propose to proceed de novo. The Board are considering the question of amending the rules dealing with these schemes in the case of counties which hold half - yearly instead of quarterly meetings.

  Interest on Purchase Money of Estate of Mr. F. E. Tydd in County Kilkenny.
  MR. CLANCY: To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that, in the case of Mr. F. E. Tydd, who sold his estate in the county of Kilkenny last year to his tenants, Mr. Tydd was
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  informed on June 14th last that applications for the interest on the purchase had been sent out by the Land Commission, and again informed on July 28th that a draft for the amount received would be sent to him that day or the day after; whether he was informed later on that the applications for the interest had not yet been sent out; and, if so, what explanation has the Commission to give.
  (Answered by Mr. Walter Long.) The facts are substantially as stated. It was, however, found necessary, owing to an informality, to issue fresh demands for the interest. This was done on August 2nd, and as soon as payment is made by the tenant purchasers the Land Commission will remit the amount to the vendor.

  Model Schools in Ireland.
  MR. BOLAND: To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lori-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can now state (1) the number of model schools in Ireland recognised on the 31st day of December, 1904; (2) the cost of each pupil in average attendance in each model school for the year 1904; (3) the number of model schools in which there were no Catholic pupils on the rolls on the 31st day of December, 1904; (4) the number of pupil-teachers in office in the model schools on the 31st day of December, 1904, according to religious denominations; and can he state (5) how many of these pupil-teachers had been appointed by competitive examination, and if not by competitive examination, will he state the reason in each case.
  (Answered by Mr. Walter Long.) (1) The number of model schools recognised on December 31st, 1904, was thirty, which are sub divided intoseventy-five departments, each of which has a separate roll number. (2) The cost of each pupil in average attendance in each model school for the year 1904 was as follows:—

  £

  s.

  d.

  Central

  4

  16

  10¾

  Glasnevin

  4

  16

  4½

  Athy

  6

  14

  11

  Ballymena

  6

  3

  5£

  Clonmel

  6

  4

  5¼

  Cork

  6

  11

  4¼

  Enniscorthy

  6

  5

  10

  999

  £

  s.

  d.

  Galway

  4

  2

  7¾

  Limerick

  6

  16

  11½

  Newry

  4

  19

  9¾

  Sligo

  5

  3

  11¼

  Water ford

  8

  0

  11¼

  Carrickfergus

  4

  10

  8¾

  Monaghan

  4

  12

  5½

  Omagh

  4

  12

  7¾

  West Dublin

  3

  14

  11½

  Inchicore

  3

  0

  4¼

  Bailieboro'

  5

  0

  8¼

  Belfast

  4

  17

  9

  Coleraine

  5

  6

  4¼

  Dunmanway

  5

  2

  10¾

  Enniskillen

  5

  7

  7¾

  Kilkenny

  5

  18

  9¾

  Londonderry

  3

  19

  9¾

  Newtownards

  4

  4

  5

  Trim

  6

  9

  10¼

  Ballymoney

  4

  9

  2¼

  Lurgan

  4

  0

  11

  Newtownstewart

  5

  1

  9¼

  Parsonstown

  5

  7

  8

  (The expenditure on the model schools by the Board of Works is not included in calculating the above.) (3) The number of model school departments in which there were no Catholic pupils on the rolls on December 31st, 1904, was twenty-eight, out of a total of seventy-five. (4) There were 172 pupil-teachers recognised in model schools on December 31st, 1904, their religious denominations being as follows:—Roman Catholic, forty; Established Church, fifty-six; Presbyterian, sixty-three; Methodist, twelve; Other, one. (5) These were appointed by competitive examination, with the following exceptions:—one Roman Catholic, three Established Church, one Presbyterian. The five pupil-teachers were boys, and they were appointed on the special recommendation of the Board's inspectors, who satisfied themselves as to the qualifications of the candidates, as it was found that the number of boy candidates who qualified at the competitive examination was insufficient to fill the vacancies then existing.

  Number of National Schools in Ireland Reported as Unnecessary.
  MR. BOLAND: TO ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state the total
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  number of national schools in operation reported by the inspectors as unnecessary; the number of these schools under Catholic, Protestant Episcopalian, Presbyterian, and Methodist management, respectively; the number of pupils of each of these denominations; and the percentage of these pupils to the total.
  (Answered by Mr. Walter Long.) The number of such schools in operation is 101, and these are distributed, as regards management, as follows: Roman Catholic, twenty-three; late Established Church, twenty-eight; Presbyterian, thirty five; Methodist, thirteen; other denominations, two. The numbers of pupils on the rolls on December 31st last in these cases, and the percentages to the total, were as follows: Roman Catholic, 1,293 (31·3); late Established Church, 1,108 (26·8); Presbyterian, 1,461 (35·4); Methodist, 194 (4·7); others, 77 (1·8).

  Loss to Post Office Savings Bank by Fraudulent Withdrawals.
  MR. WEIR: To ask the Postmaster-General if he will state the total loss falling on savings bank funds as the result of fraudulent withdrawals by telegraph and return of post for each year since the system of withdrawal by telegraph was instituted.
  (Answered by Lord Stanley.) The following table gives the information asked for by the hon. Member:—

  Year.

  Loss falling on savings bank funds.

  £

  s.

  d.

  1894

  6

  4

  0

  1895

  53

  5

  11

  1896

  138

  12

  3

  1897

  77

  1

  3

  1898

  88

  4

  0

  1899

  91

  0

  3

  1900

  90

  14

  11

  1901

  135

  16

  5

  1902

  101

  15

  5

  1903

  133

  0

  4

  1904

  103

  12

  8

  Grievances of London Postal Porters.
  MR. JAMES O'CONNOR: To ask the Postmaster-General if he can state why the porters of the London postal service were refused an

  1001
  opportunity of stating their grievances at an interview, seeing that the postal porters were not allowed to give evidence before the Bradford Committee.
  (Answered by Lord Stanley.) The case of the porters in the London postal service was carefully considered in connection with the recommendations of the Bradford Committee. I found that, having regard to the nature of their duties, the present scale of pay is adequate, and I did not consider that any useful purpose would be served by a personal interview.

  Royal College of Art Scholarships.
  MR. KEIR HARDIE: To ask the Secretary to the Board of Education what number of Royal College of Art scholarships were granted last year at South Kensington, and how many of these were held by women; and whether it is intended to make any reduction in the sum set apart for such scholarships, or any change in the conditions upon which they have hitherto been granted.
  (Answered by Sir William Anson.) Sixteen Royal College of Art scholarships were awarded last year, of which three were awarded to women. The Board do not contemplate, at the present time, any reduction of the sum set apart for such scholarships, or any change in the conditions under which they have hitherto been granted.

  Burtonport and Dungloe Postal Service.
  MR. HUGH LAW: To ask the Postmaster-General whether he can now state the result of his inquiries as to the possibility of improving the postal service at Burtonport and Dungloe, county" Donegal.
  (Answered by Lord Stanley.) The inquiries in regard to the possibility of improving the postal service at Burtonport and Dungloe are not yet completed, but no time shall be lost in communicating their result to the hon. Member.

  Application of Leicester Guardians to Acquire Land for Poor Law Purposes.
  MR. KEIR HARDIE: To ask the President of the Local Government
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  Board how many ecclesiastical parishes there are within the municipal boundary of Leicester; and for what reason his Department recently refused to sanction an application by the board of guardians to acquire seventy-five acres of land for Poor Law purposes.
  (Answered by Mr. Gerald Balfour.) Matters relating to the boundaries of ecclesiastical parishes do not come within the jurisdiction of the Local Government Board, but it would appear from the Census Returns that there are some twenty-seven ecclesiastical parishes or districts wholly or partly comprised within the municipal boundary of Leicester. The Board do not appear to have received any application by the board of guardians to acquire seventy-five acres of land, but an application in respect of a smaller area is now under consideration.

  Major Lawson and the Malta Lunacy Board.
  MR. CROOKS: To ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies what action, if any, he proposes to take upon the protest of the medical men of Malta upon the appointment of Major Lawson by His Excellency the Governor to supervise the Malta Lunacy Board's medical officers in dealing with English patients only; and whether, with the view of adding to the good feeling of His Majesty's loyal Maltese subjects, he will consider the advisability of making Major Lawson a member of the Maltese Lunacy Board rather than a casual supervisor.
  (Answered by Mr. Secretary Lyttelton.) The hon. Member's suggestion has been carried out, and Major Lawson has already been appointed a regular member of the board of the Malta Lunatic Asylum. The duties of the board are to meet once a week at the lunatic asylum to discharge inmates when cured and to testify to the insanity of those admitted during the preceding week. It was never at any time intended that Major Lawson should in any sense supervise the medical officers of the board or to cast any reflection whatever on the manner in which the board has performed its duties

  Army Brush Contracts—Work for Institutions for the Blind.
  MR. KEIR HARDIE: To ask the Secretary of State for War whether he can, consistently with the public interests, so arrange the contracts for brushes and other like work that a larger proportion will go to institutions for the blind.
  (Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster.) Care is taken to allot to the various institutions for the blind as large a proportion of such work as is possible.
  Message to attend the Lords Commissioners.
  The House went; and the Royal Assent was given to a number of Bills. (See page 989.)
  And afterwards His Majesty's Most Gracious Speech was delivered to both Houses of Parliament by the Lord High
  1004
  Chancellor (in pursuance of His Majesty's Commands).
  Then a Commission for proroguing the Parliament was read.
  After which the Lord Chancellor said—
  "My Lords and Gentlemen
  "By virtue of His Majesty's Commission, under the Great Seal, to us and other Lords directed, and now read, we do, in His Majesty's Name, and in obedience to His Commands, prorogue this Parliament to Monday the Thirtieth day of October next, to be then here holden; and this Parliament is accordingly prorogued to Monday the Thirtieth day of October next.
  End of the Sixth session of the Twenty-seventh Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, in the Fifth Year of the Reign of His Majesty King Edward VII.

RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.
  GUERNSEY (ACQUISITION OF LAND BY FOREINERS).
  Paper relative to the acquisition of land by foreigners in Guernsey. Presented (by Command), and ordered to lie on the Table.
  POST OFFICE (MONEY OKDEHS).
  Statutory Rules and Orders, 1905. No. 883. The Postal Order (Colonial) Amendment (No. 5) Regulations, 1905, dated, 31st July, 1905. Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and ordered to lie on the Table.
  COLONIES.
  Return respecting. Laid before the House (pursuant to Address of the 11th of August, 1904), and to be printed. (No. 178.)
  ARMY.
  Return respecting. Laid before the House (pursuant to Address of Wednesday last), and to be printed. (No. 179.)

  COMMISSION.
  The following Bills received the Royal Assent—

  1. Consolidated Fund (Appropriation).

  2. Churches (Scotland).

  3. Aliens.

  4. Medical Act (1886) Amendment.

  5. Unemployed Workmen.

  6. East India Loans (Railways).

  7. Naval Works.

  8. Expiring Laws Continuance.

  9. Public Works Loans.

  10. Trade Marks.

  11. Isle of Man (Customs).

  12. Provisional Order (Marriages).

  13. London Government Scheme (London and Middlesex).

  14. London Government Scheme (Hackney and Edmonton Unions).

  15. Pier and Harbour Provisional Orders (No. 1).

  990

  16. Wemyss Tramways Order Confirmation.

  17. Electric Lighting Provisional Orders (No. 9).

  18. Tramways Orders Confirmation (No. 1).

  19. Tramways Orders Confirmation (No. 2).

  20. Fraserburgh Harbour Order Confirmation.

  21. Bangor (County Down) Water and Improvement.

  22. Preston Corporation (Ribble Navigation).

  23. Thames Conservancy.

  24. Oldham and Saddleworth District Tramways.

  25. Metropolitan Electric Supply Company (Various Powers).

  26. North Eastern Railway.

  27. North Eastern Railway (Steam Vessels).

  28. Acton Sewage.

  29. Bolton Corporation.

  30. Halifax Corporation.

  31. London County Council (General Powers).

  32. Newry, Keady, and Tynan Light Railway.

  33. North-East London Railway.

  34. London Building Acts (Amendment).

  35. Heckmondwicke Improvement.

  36. Bristol Corporation.

  37. Wigan Corporation.

  38. South Barracas (Buenos Ayres) Gas and Coke Company.

  39. Earl of Stamford's Cheshire Estate.

  THE KING'S SPEECH.
  And afterwards His Majesty's Most Gracious Speech was delivered to both Houses of Parliament by the Lord High Chancellor (in pursuance of His Majesty's Command) as followeth:—
  "My Lords, and Gentlemen
  "My relations with other Powers continue to be friendly. It gave Me great

  991
  satisfaction to receive the King of Spain as My guest. His Majesty's stay in England will, I feel sure, serve to strengthen the cordial relations which have for so long subsisted between this country and the Spanish people.
  "Negotiations, due to the initiative of the President of the United States, are about to be entered into between the Russian and Japanese Governments for the purpose of terminating the deplorable conflict still proceeding in the Far East. It is My earnest hope that they may lead to a lasting and mutually honourable peace.
  "The Powers Signatories of the Madrid Convention of 1880 have been invited by the Sultan of Morocco to take part in a Conference for the purpose of considering the best means of introducing much-needed reforms into that country. The bases of such a Conference are under consideration.
  "The dissolution of the Union between Sweden and Norway is apparently imminent. I am confident that by the exercise of wise moderation on each side a settlement will be arrived at acceptable to both countries, and of such a nature as to enable My Government to maintain with the people of the Scandinavian Peninsula the same friendly relations which have prevailed in the past.
  "The condition of affairs in Macedonia and in Crete still gives cause for considerable anxiety, and continues to engage the attention of My Government and those of the other Powers concerned.
  "The King of Italy has delivered his Award in regard to the frontier between the possessions of Portugal in South-West Africa and the territory of the Barotse Kingdom, and a settlement of this difficult question has thus been effected.
  "I gladly accepted the invitation of His Majesty the King of Italy to send Delegates to the Conference called under his auspices to consider the question of establishing an International Institute for the collection and exchange of information bearing upon agriculture. I cordially hope that the outcome of the Conference will be of service to agriculturists both at home and abroad.
  "My Government has received from the Dominion of Canada a most patriotic
  992
  offer to assume the entire administrative and financial responsibility for the defence of Halifax and Esquimalt, and that offer has been cordially accepted. The transfer of control will take place at an early date under arrangements in regard to which My Government have been fortunate enough to obtain the fullest and most appreciative co-operation of the Dominion Government.
  "In accordance with the expectation held out at the opening of this session, I have granted to the Transvaal representative institutions, which will be brought into operation as soon as the measures necessary for holding elections can be completed. I trust that all sections of the community will unite in exercising the large measure of political power thus conferred upon them for the advancement and welfare of the Colony.
  "I have concluded a Treaty with His Highness the Ameer of Afghanistan continuing the engagements which existed with the late Ameer, and which, during his lifetime, secured friendly relations between My Government in India and His Highness' Government.
  "The text of the Agreement has been laid before you.
  "Gentlemen of the House of Commons
  "I thank you for the satisfactory provision which you have made for the services of the year.
  "My Lords, and Gentlemen
  "I have given My assent with much pleasure to measures for renewing the legislation which lightens the local burdens which press upon the agricultural population, and for the mitigation of the evils which have arisen out of alien immigration into the United Kingdom.
  "I have gladly sanctioned a temporary Act for the establishment of authorities to deal with the question of the unemployed. I trust that the Commission which I have approved to investigate the operation of the existing Poor Law will materially assist the deliberations of a future Parliament in its examination of this difficult problem.
  "A Bill dealing with the Ecclesiastical difficulties in Scotland has been passed into law. I hope that its results may

  993
  not only put an end to a serious controversy between two Presbyterian Churches in that country, but may ultimately conduce to the closest and most harmonious co-operation between all religious bodies who accept Presbyterian doctrine and discipline.
  "In bidding you farewell, I pray that the blessing of Almighty God may rest upon all your labours."
  Then a Commission for proroguing the Parliament was read.
  After which the Lord Chancellor said:
  "My Lords, and Gentlemen
  "By virtue of His Majesty's Commission, under the Great Seal, to us and other Lords directed, and now read, we do, in His Majesty's Name, and in obedience to His Commands, prorogue this Parliament to Monday the Thirtieth day of October next, to be then here holden; and this Parliament is accordingly prorogued to Monday the Thirtieth day of October next."