Sitting of 2 August 1900

PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS.

  AMENDMENT OF STANDING ORDERS.
  *THE CHAIRMAN OF WAYS and MEANS (Mr. J. W. LOWTHER,): The period of the session has now arrived when it is customary to make alterations in the Standing Orders. I gave notice of these more than a week ago, but I do not think they call for many observations. One of the Amendments it is proposed to insert in Standing Order III.—namely, the words "or compulsory user of the same"—has become necessary in consequence of a Bill having been introduced which proposed to deal with certain lands without acquiring them, by taking the right of user for certain military purposes. It was found that the Bill had been brought in without notice to the individuals whose land it was proposed to use, and at the suggestion of the Standing Orders Committee this Amendment is now proposed. Its effect will be that in similar cases, before scheduling the lands of any individual, due notice will have to be given of the intention to do so. The next Amendment to Standing Order VI. is purely a drafting one; and a further trifling one to insert the words "or newspapers" is intended to give facilities for further publicity, instead of confining the advertisment to one newspaper. There is a new Standing Order proposed providing that a map shall be deposited at the Board of Trade on or before 30th November in the case of Bills for the supply of electrical energy, it being felt that the districts affected should be able to see from the map the extent to which the Bill applies to them. A fresh series of new Standing Orders are also proposed (250 to 257 inclusive) for the purpose of carrying out the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act of last year. Throughout that Act there are many references to certain procedure to take place in this House—the words usually being "subject to Standing Orders if the two Houses of Parliament think fit so to order." These Standing Orders are little more than a repetition of the words of the
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  statute, but they have become necessary in order to enable the various proceedings laid down by the Act to take place. I beg to move the series of Amendments standing on the Paper in my name.
  MR. CHANNING: I should like to ask the Chairman of Committees what is to be done with regard to the constitution of the non-Parliamentary panel. I understand it has to lie appointed by the two Chairmen before the 1st January. There is more latitude with regard to the Parliamentary panel.
  *MR. J. W. LOWTHER: I have not been in communication very recently with the Secretary for Scotland on this matter, but during the recess I will communicate with him and we can then constitute the non-Parliamentary panel. But, of course, no action will be taken and no members will be selected to sit upon any of these Commissions until the Parliamentary panel has been constituted at the commencement of next session. The Bills will not be ready for the Commissioners until February or March. Under the Act of Parliament the Commissioners are to be selected, in the first place, from the two Parliamentary panels, and it is only in the event of those two bodies being exhausted that the non Parliamentary panel can be drawn upon. I do not think it likely that the services of the non-Parliamentary panel will be often needed.
  Amendments to the Standing Orders agreed to.
  Ordered, That the said Resolutions, numbered 250 to 257, be Standing Orders of the House.—(The Chairman of Ways and Means.)
  Ordered, That the Standing Orders, as amended, be printed. [No. 314.]

  MUIRKIRK, MAUCHLINE, AND DALMELLINGTON RAILWAYS (ABANDONMENT) BILL [Lords].
  Read the third time, and passed, without amendment.

  MANCHESTER CORPORATION TRAMWAYS BILL [Lords].
  As amended, considered; Amendments made.
  Ordered, That Standing Orders 223 and 243 be suspended, and that the Bill be now read the third time.—(Mr. Caldwell.)
  Bill accordingly read the third time, and passed, with Amendments.

  WORKINGTON RAILWAYS AND DOCKS BILL [Lords].
  Ordered, That, in the case of the Workington Railways and Docks Bill [Lords], Standing Orders 84, 214, 215, and 239 be suspended, and that the Bill be now taken into consideration, provided amended prints shall have been previously deposited.—(Mr. Caldwell.)
  Bill, as amended, considered accordingly.
  Ordered, That Standing Orders 223 and 243 be suspended, and that the Bill be now read the third time.—(Mr. Caldwell.)
  Queen's consent signified; Bill read the third time, and passed, with Amendments.

  BOURNEMOUTH CORPORATION BILL [Lords].
  Ordered, That, in the case of the Bournemouth Corporation Bill [Lords], Standing Orders 84, 214, 217, 239, and 242 be suspended, and that the Bill be now taken into consideration, provided amended prints shall have been previously deposited.—(Mr. Caldwell.)
  Bill, as amended, considered accordingly.
  Amendments made.
  Ordered, That Standing Orders 223 and 243 be suspended, and that the Bill be now read the third time.—(Mr. Caldwell.)
  Bill accordingly read the third time, and passed, with Amendments.

  MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
  That they have agreed to—
  London (St. Marylebone) Provisional Order Bill,
  Paisley Waterworks Provisional Order Confirmation Bill,
  Edinburgh (Housing of the Working Classes) Improvement Scheme Provisional Order Bill,
  Saint David's Railway (Abandonment) Bill, without amendment.
  Tramways Provisional Orders (No. 5) Bill,
  Electric Lighting Provisional Orders (No. 10) Bill,
  Devonport Corporation Bill,
  Hastings Corporation Bill,
  Scarborough Corporation Bill,
  Newry, Keady, and Tynan Light Railway Bill,
  Mid-Kent Water Bill,
  Bray and Enniskerry Railway Bill,
  Christchurch and Bournemouth Tramways Bill,
  Metropolitan District Railway Bill,
  Coventry Corporation Bill,
  Taunton Corporation Bill,
  Metropolitan Gas (Prepayment Meter) Bill (changed from Gas Light and Coke, Commercial Gas, and South Metropolitan Gas Companies Bill),
  South Wales Electrical Power Distribution Bill,
  Tottenham Urban District Council Bill,
  Southport Corporation Bill,
  Dublin Corporation Bill,
  Plymouth, Stonehouse, and Devonport Tramways Bill,
  North Metropolitan Electric Power Supply Bill,
  Southport and Lytham Tramroad Bill,
  Huddersfield Corporation Tramways Bill,
  London County Tramways (No. 1) Bill,
  London County Council (Improvements) Bill,
  London County Council (General Powers) Bill,
  London United Tramways Bill,
  Great Northern Railway (Ireland) Bill,
  Alexandra Park Bill,
  Rochdale Corporation Bill, with Amendments.
  That they have agreed to Amendments to—
  Tramways Orders Confirmation (No. 1) Bill [Lords],
  North British Railway Bill [Lords],
  Walsall Corporation Bill [Lords],
  Liverpool Overhead Railway Bill [Lords],
  Buenos Ayres and Rosario Railway Bill [Lords],
  Ipswich Corporation Tramways Bill [Lords],
  Rotherhithe and Ratcliff Tunnel Bill [Lords],
  Salford Corporation Bill [Lords],
  Withington Urban District Council Bill [Lords], without amendment.

PETITION.
  SALE OF INTOXICATING LIQUORS TO CHILDREN (No. 2) BILL.
  Petition from Pontefract, in favour; to lie upon the Table.
RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.
  RAILWAYS (GENERAL REPORT).
  Copy presented, of General Report to the Board of Trade on the Capital, Traffic, and Expenditure of the Railway Companies of the United Kingdom for the year 1899 (by Command); to lie upon the Table.
  STATISTICAL ABSTRACT (UNITED KINGDOM).
  Copy presented, of Statistical Abstract for the United Kingdom in each of the last fifteen years from 1885 to 1899, Forty-seventh Number (by Command); to lie upon the Table.
  STATISTICAL ABSTRACT (COLONIES).
  Copy presented, of Statistical Abstract for the Colonial and other Possessions of the United Kingdom in each of the last fifteen years from 1885 to 1899, Thirty-seventh number (by Command); to lie upon the Table.
  BOARD OF TRADE (LABOUR DEPARTMENT) (CHANGES IN WAGES, ETC.).
  Copy presented, of Report and Statistical Tables relating to Changes in Rates of Wages and Hours of Labour in the United Kingdom, 1899, with Statistical Tables [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
  MERCHANT SHIPPING ACT, 1894 (VESSELS DETAINED).
  Copy presented, of Return of all ships ordered by the Board of Trade, or its officers, to be provisionally detained as unsafe, together with summaries, etc. [by Command]; to Se upon the Table.
  BOILER EXPLOSIONS ACTS, 1882 AND 1890.
  Copy presented, of Report to the Secretary of the Board of Trade upon the Working of the Boiler Explosions Acts, 1882 and 1890, with Appendices (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, C. 9495 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
  TRAMWAY AND GAS AND WATER ORDERS.
  Copy presented, of Report by the Board of Trade of their proceedings under the Tramways Act, 1870, and the Gas and Water Works Facilities Act, 1870, during, the Session of 1900 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
  MERCHANT SEAMEN.
  Copy presented, of Report of a Committee appointed by the Board of Trade on the question of Continuous Discharge Certificates for Seamen. II. Minutes of Evidence, Appendix, and Index [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
  TRAMWAYS (STREET AND ROAD).
  Return presented, relative thereto [ordered 3rd July; Mr. Ritchie]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 315.]
  BANKRUPTCY.
  Copy presented, of Seventeenth General Annual Report by the Board of Trade under the Bankruptcy Act, 1883 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 316.]
  COMPANIES (WINDING UP).
  Copy presented, of Ninth General Annual Report by the Board of Trade [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 317.]
  UNIVERSITIES (SCOTLAND).
  Return presented, relative thereto [ordered 23rd July; Mr. Thomas Shaw]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 318.]
  LOCAL TAXATION (SCOTLAND).
  Copy presented, of the Annual Local Taxation (Scotland) Returns for the year 1898–9 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 319.]
  BOARD OF AGRICULTURE (DISTRIBUTION OF GRANTS).
  Copy presented, of Annual Report on the Distribution of Grants for Agricultural Education and Research in the year 1899–1900, with Statements respecting the several Colleges and Institutions aided and the experiments conducted [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
  HOUSING OF THE WORKING CLASSES.
  Return presented, relative thereto [ordered 9th April; Mr. Hasell]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 320.]
  LOCAL TAXATION (ENGLAND) ACCOUNT, 1899–1900.
  Return presented, relative thereto [ordered 21st June; Mr. T. W. Russell]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 321.]
  PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS (AREAS TRANSFERRED).
  Return presented, relative thereto [ordered 2nd July; Lord Edmond Fitz-maurice]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 322.]
  LONDON (EQUALISATION OF RATES) ACT, 1894 (ACCOUNTS UNDER SECTION 1 (7) OF THE ACT).
  Return presented, relative thereto [ordered 26th July; Mr. T. W. Russell]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 323.]
  LOCAL TAXATION RETURNS (ENGLAND).
  Copy presented, of Part II. (Accounts of County Councils and Lunatic Asylums); Part III. (Municipal Borough Accounts, etc.); Part IV. (Accounts of Metropolitan Vestries, District Boards, etc.); Part V. (Accounts of Commissioners of Sewers, etc.); Part VI. (Accounts of Highway Authorities in Rural Districts); and Part VII. (Summary) [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 324.]
  CONTRACTS FOR SCHOOL BOARD (WAGES).
  Return presented, relative thereto [ordered 26th April; Sir Charles Dilke]; to lie upon the Table.
  COUNTY COUNCIL SCHOLARSHIPS.
  Return presented, relative thereto [ordered 25th July, 1899; Mr. Broadhurst]; to lie upon the Table.
  PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND).
  Copy presented, of Sixty-eighth Annual Report of the Commissioners of Public Works in Ireland, with Appendices, for the year ending 31st March, 1900 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
  GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS (CONTRACTS).
  Return presented, relative thereto, [ordered 25th June; Sir Howard Vincent]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 325.]
  POST OFFICE TELEGRAPHS (REVENUE AND EXPENDITURE).
  Return presented, relative thereto [ordered 23rd July; Mr. Hanbury]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed, [No. 326.]
  POST OFFICE (REVENUE AND EXPENDITURE).
  Return presented, relative thereto [ordered 23rd July; Mr. Hanbury]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 327.]
  CRIMINAL AND JUDICIAL STATISTICS (IRELAND).
  Copy presented, of Criminal and Judicial Statistics of Ireland for the year 1899. Part I. Criminal Statistics [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
  LUNACY (IRELAND).
  Copy presented, of Forty-ninth Report, with Appendices, of Inspectors of Lunatics (Ireland) [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
  QUEEN'S COLLEGE (GALWAY).
  Copy presented, of Report of the President for the Session 1899–1900 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.

  LAND JUDGES COURT (IRELAND).
  Copy ordered, "of Fourth Return of Estates prepared, by the Registrar of the. Land Judges Court, pursuant to Rules dated 23rd January, 1897, in relation to proceedings under Section 40 of the Land Law (Ireland) Act, 1896."—(Mr. G. W. Balfour.)
  Return presented accordingly; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 328.]

  PAPERS LAID UPON THE TABLE BY THE CLERK OF THE HOUSE.
  1. Adjournment Motions under Standing Order No. 17.—Return relative thereto [ordered 31st July; Mr. Caldwell]; to be printed. [No. 329.]
  2. Closure of Debate (Standing Order No. 25).—Return relative thereto [ordered 31st July; Mr. Caldwell]; to be printed. [No. 330.]
  3. Divisions of the House.—Return relative thereto [ordered 31st July; Mr. Caldwell]; to be printed.
  4. Private Bills and Private Business.—Return relative thereto [ordered 31st July; Mr. Caldwell]; to be printed.
  5. Public Bills.—Return relative thereto [ordered 31st; Mr. Caldwell]; to be printed.
  6. Public Petitions.—Return relative thereto [ordered 31st July; Mr. Caldwell]; to be printed.
  7. Select Committees.—Return relative thereto [ordered 31st July; Mr. Caldwell]; to be printed.
  8. Sittings of the House.—Return relative thereto [ordered 31st July; Mr. Caldwell]; to be printed.
  9. Business of the House (Days occupied by Government and by Private Members).—Return relative thereto [ordered 31st July; Mr. Caldwell]; to be printed. [No. 331.]

  DIOCESAN REGISTRIES.
  Address for "Return of the Statements received by the Secretary of State for the Home Department, under 7 and 8 Vic., c. 68, from the Diocesan Registrars of the Fees received by them and of the state of their Offices during the last three years."—(Mr. H. D. Greene.)

  LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) ACT, 1898.
  Return ordered, "respecting Local Government Electoral Areas, showing for the whole of Ireland the number of Local Government electors and Poor Law Valuation of each county and each county electoral division therein, and of each county district (urban and rural), and each district electoral division or ward therein, and the number of county councillors for each such county and county electoral division, and of district councillors and guardians for each such
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  county district and district electoral division or ward."—(Mr. Maurice Healy.)

  LOSS OF LIFE AT SEA.
  Return ordered, "of the Loss of Life at Sea for the year 1899 (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 236, of Session 1899)."—(Mr. Ritchie.)

  MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT (SERVICE ON COMMITTEES).
  Return ordered, "showing—

  (a) Names of Members who have not served on Private Bill Committees during the present Parliament (omitting Members of the late and present Governments);

  (b) Number of days' attendance of Members on Private Bill Committees and Public Committtes (other than Standing Committees) during the present Parliament, in the following form:—

  Names of Members.

  Number of days' attendance.

  Private Bill Committees.

  Public Committees (other than Standing Committees).

  —(Mr. D. A. Thomas.)

  KITCHEN AND REFRESHMENT ROOMS (HOUSE OF COMMONS).
  Power given to the Select Committee to report their Observations.
  Report, brought up, and read.
  Report to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 332.]

QUESTIONS.

  CHINA—OPERATIONS AGAINST TA-KU FORTS—ATTITUDE OF UNITED STATES ADMIRAL.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: On behalf of the hon. Member for East Mayo, I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether his attention has been directed to the fact that Admiral Kempff has reported to the

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  Government of the United States that ho had declined to join in the demand for the temporary occupation of the Ta-ku Forts because it endangered the lives of people in the interior in advance of absolute necessity, for up to 17th June the Chinese Government had not committed, so far as he was aware, any act of open hostilities towards the foreign armed forces; and whether the Foreign Office are still without any information as to the refusal of the American Admiral to join the other Admirals in the demand for the surrender of the Ta-ku Forts.
  *THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. BRODRICK,): We have no information to the effect suggested in the first part of the question. In a report which reached the Admiralty on the 31st July, Roar-Admiral Bruce states that though Rear-Admiral Kempff attended the Council of the Admirals on each occasion, he did not sign the protocols, and informed Rear-Admiral Bruce that he was unable to take any action, not having received authority from Washington to do so.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEIEL: Having regard to that answer, does the right hon. Gentleman adhere to his statement of 3rd July that the American Admiral acted absolutely in concert with the other Admirals?
  *MR. SPEAKER: Order, order! It is irregular to refer to a previous answer and to proceed to argue on it.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEIEL: The right hon. Gentleman would not have answered in any case.

  ADVANCE OF THE ALLIES ON PEKING.
  SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the forces of Great Britain and Japan are now prepared to advance in strength to the relief of the Legations and Europeans at Peking, and if he will state who is in command of these allied forces.
  *MR. BRODRICK: I have nothing to add to the statement I made on Tuesday on the subject.
  SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether or not the force has actually started?
  [No answer was given.]

  SOUTH AFRICA—WAR INDEMNITY—SET-OFF OF THE JAMESON RAID INDEMNITY.
  MR. CHANNING: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, in determining the amount and incidence of any indemnity to be obtained from the Transvaal, regard will be had to the indemnity admittedly due to the Transvaal Government in respect of the Jameson raid; and what steps will be taken to determine the amount equitably due to the Transvaal Government by the Chartered Company in respect of the raid, and to obtain such amount from the Chartered Company, and to include this amount in the assets of the Transvaal out of which any indemnity is to be paid.
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR,): It does not seem that the question of the indemnity due to the Transvaal in respect of the raid has any connection with the indemnity to be obtained from the Transvaal for the war. With regard to the second paragraph, I must refer the hon. Gentleman to an answer given by my right hon. friend the Colonial Secretary on 15th June last.*
  MR. CHANNING: Are we to understand that in taking over the Transvaal we are not taking over the assets as well as the liabilities of the Transvaal Government?
  MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I cannot answer any general question of that sort. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will confine himself to the question on the Paper.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: Is the Chartered Company freed from liability?

  ORANGE RIVER COLONY—TARIFFS.
  MR. CHARLES M'ARTHUR: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonics if he will state what tariff is now applied to goods imported into the Orange River Colony;
  *See The Parliamentary Debates [Fourth Series], Vol. lxxxiv., page 142.

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  and, in particular, what duties are chargeable on tobacco, cigars, and cigarettes imported into that colony.
  THE SECRETARY OF STATE THE COLONIES (Mr. J. CHAMBERLAIN,): The tariff applied to goods imported into the Orange River Colony is the Customs Union Tariff which applies equally to the Cape Colony and Natal. The duty on tobacco manufactured and cut is 3s. 6d. per pound, on cigars 6s. per pound and 10 per cent, ad valorem, on cigarettes 4s. per pound.

  TREATMENT OF REBELS—LORD ROBERTS'S PROCLAMATION IN THE ORANGE FREE STATE.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: On behalf of the hon. Member for East Mayo, I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether Lord Roberts had authority to issue the proclamation of 1st June, announcing that after a certain date all inhabitants of the Orange Free State found in arms against his troops would be treated as rebels; whether such a proclamation is in accordance with the usages of war, and why Lord Roberts did not consult Her Majesty's Government before taking so grave a step; why the issue of this proclamation was not reported to the Government until the 28th June, and then only on an inquiry from the Colonial Office; whether the issue of this proclamation is sanctioned by Her Majesty's Government; and whether it is proposed to act in accordance with its terms.
  MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN: (1) Lord Roberts had authority to annex. Upon annexation the burghers of the Orange Free State became British subjects. His proclamation stated that inhabitants found in arms would be liable to be treated as rebels, not that they would be treated as rebels. (2, 3, 4, and 5) Under his commission Lord Roberts had power to take this step, and Her Majesty's Government have full confidence in his discretion as to any action under the proclamation.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: As a matter of fact, has he dared to treat them as rebels?

  BOER TREACHERY—ALLEGATIONS AGAINST MR. LEROUX.
  MR. BARTLEY: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for
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  War whether Mr. Leroux was a justice of the peace at Vredefort under the Orange Free State Government, and whether he was reinstated in his office by the British authorities after taking the oath of allegiance; whether he has been convicted on a charge of giving information to General de Wet, by the help of which information the recent raids on the railway were carried out successfully by that general; and whether he has been sentenced to five years imprisonment; whether he can state approximately the number of our troops and Colonial troops; who were killed, wounded, and taken prisoners in the railway raids referred to; and whether any other punishment is contemplated to be inflicted in such cases, with a view of deterring others from similar acts of treachery.
  *THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. WYNDHAM,): No report has reached us of the alleged trial and condemnation of Mr. Leroux. The charge, if made, is serious, but it is one with which those responsible for the administration of martial law are competent to deal. Under these circumstances my hon. friend will, I am sure, agree that I should not be justified in expressing any opinion which might be held to influence either the verdict or the sentence in this or similar cases. In the railway raid of the 21st July, to which I believe my hon. friend alludes, two officers and one hundred men of the Welsh Fusiliers were captured. Both the officers and thirty-one men have since been released, one of the latter being severely wounded.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: Will an inquiry be held, in accordance with the Queen's Regulations, into the circumstances under which these officers and men were taken prisoners?
  *MR. WYNDHAM: That does not arise out of the question. I have dealt with this subject six or seven times already, and I have nothing to add.

  BOERS SIGNING PLEDGES OF NEUTRALITY.
  MR. DALZIEL: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he can state approximately the number of Boers who have signed conditions of neutrality and returned to their homes.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: No, Sir; no statement of these numbers has reached us.

  SENTENCES ON PRETORIA TRAITORS.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether any information has yet reached the War Office of the sentences of death alleged to have been passed on Captain Tossel and Mr. Solomon Gillingham, of Pretoria; if so, what was the charge, by what tribunal were they tried, what was the sentence passed, what date was fixed for its execution, and has it been carried into effect yet, or when is it intended to be carried into effect.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: No, Sir. No information has yet reached the War Office.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: Considersidering the hon. Gentleman told me three weeks ago that despatches were on their way home, may I ask if we are likely to get the information, or is it always to be refused when Ireland is concerned?
  *MR. WYNDHAM: Most certainly we shall get the information, but I do not feel justified in sending inquiries to South Africa, for reasons I have already given.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I will repeat this question every day until I get a satisfactory answer.

  POCKET FILTERS FOR SOLDIERS.
  DR. FARQUHARSON: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether, considering the spread of enteric fever in South Africa, he will consider the possibility of increasing the number of pocket Rustem filters served out to the troops on active service there.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: No filters of the kind referred to have been issued to the troops. The only filters that have passed the tests and have been issued are of the Berkefelde and Stack and Brownlow type.

  PRESS CENSORS.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for
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  War if he can inform the House whether the noble Lord the Member for the Westhoughton Division of Lancashire is now serving in South Africa as military press censor; and how many, if any, other Members of this House are serving or have served at any time during the war in that capacity.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: Yes, Sir. The noble Lord is serving as chief press censor. The following hon. and gallant Members of this House have served as military press censors—namely, the Member for the Kendal Division of Westmorland, the Member for the Northern Division of Somersetshire, and the noble Lord the Member for the Chichester Division of Sussex.
  MR SWIFT MACNEILL: May I ask the hon. Gentleman if he can tell me whether the chief press censor is the Tory Whip in this House?

  SOLDIERS' AND SAILORS' COMPENSATION.
  MR. M'KENNA: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury if he can state what steps have yet been taken in pursuance of the resolution of the House of Tuesday, 1st May, relating to compensation for injuries to soldiers and sailors.
  MR. A. J. BALFOUR: As regards soldiers killed in action or dying of wounds received or disease contracted on active service the Government propose to ask Parliament for a grant for pensions to widows, with allowances to children, as soon as the necessary rules can be drawn up by a small committee of experts. Such a system already exists with regard to the widows and children of men in the Royal Navy and Marines, and both soldiers and sailors are entitled to allowances while disabled from wounds or disease. If this plan is carried out, all subscriptions by the public will be available as additions to such pensions and allowances as may be found desirable after inquiry by local committees or otherwise in the circumstances of each particular case, so that the intention of subscribers will be fulfilled. This is the course recommended by the War Relief Fund Committee.
  MR. M'KENNA: Will Parliament be asked to make provision for this purpose this session?
  MR. A. J. BALFOUR: No, Sir; no Vote will be taken this session.
  MR. M'KENNA: Will the compensation be equivalent to that given under the Workmen's Compensation Act?
  MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I think the two cases are quite different.

  SETTLEMENT OF TROOPS IN SOUTH AFRICA AFTER THE WAR.
  MR. WHITMORE: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he can state what are the conditions under which it is expected that some 15,000 of the troops now in South Africa will make their homes there; and whether this settlement will be carried out as part of a general scheme under the encouragement and supervision of Her Majesty's Government.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: The whole question of soldiers settling in South Africa after the war is under the consideration of an Inter-departmental Committee.

  AMMUNITION RESERVES.
  MR. YERBURGH: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War what was the reserve of field and horse artillery ammunition in this country when the South African Republic declared war, and how many rounds per gun were sent with the batteries which went from India to Durban; and whether, in order to make up the artillery ammunition required for the war recourse was had to foreign manufacturers.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: It is not desirable to state definitely the number of rounds of ammunition which are held in reserve in this country; but I may say that when war was declared in October last that authorised reserve was in existence. Five hundred rounds per gun were sent with the batteries which went from India to Durban. The answer to the second paragraph of the question is in the negative.

  REINSTATEMENT OF RETIRED OFFICERS.
  MR. RUNCIMAN: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for
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  War whether officers formerly of Her Majesty's Regular Forces, who have served or who are serving in South Africa with the Imperial Yeomanry, colonial forces, or other corps, could, if properly recommended, be reinstated in their former branch of the service.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: Officers who have retired cannot be reinstated without injury to the prospects of officers still serving; there would therefore be serious difficulties in carrying out the hon. Member's suggestion except in very special circumstances.

  GENERAL PRINSLOO'S SURRENDER.
  SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War if he can state what was the number of Boer prisoners taken with General Prinsloo on the 30th July, and also the number of horses, rifles and cannon taken on the same occasion.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: Lord Roberts's telegram giving the detailed numbers was published in yesterday's papers. The number surrendered on 30th July was: 986 men, 1,432 horses, 955 rifles, and one Krupp 9-pounder. Since then, on the 31st July, 1,200 men surrendered to General Hunter; and a further number, the total of which is not reported, surrendered to General Bruce Hamilton, giving up 1,200 rifles, 650 ponies, and one Armstrong gun.

  GENERAL RUNDLE'S FORCE.
  MR. PICKERSGILL: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he has any information which he can communicate to the House as to the condition of the British troops under the command of General Rundle, who, it is stated, are starving; and, if he has no information, will the Secretary of State for War at once cause inquiry to be made.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: There is no official information, but I understand that, owing to the nature of the country and of the operations in which these troops have been engaged, they have suffered some hardships.

  GREAT YARMOUTH BARRACKS.
  *SIR J. COLOMB: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State

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  for War whether it is intended to more fully utilise the barracks and twenty-one acres of War Office ground facing the sea at Great Yarmouth; and why only some half-dozen invalids have been sent there since his statement on 1st August last year that this was one of the barracks selected to receive convalescent soldiers.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: In all cases recommended by the medical officers convalescents have been sent to the barracks at Great Yarmouth. The number of cases so sent is thirty-one. The value of the land as a piece of War Department property is fully recognised, but it is not possible to determine the best method of turning it to account except in connection with a general scheme of distribution.

  MILITARY BANDS AT GARDEN PARTIES.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether the attention of the Secretary of State for War has been directed to the fact that the band of the Coldstream Guards played at intervals on Saturday last at Compton Place, Eastbourne, at a garden party to which the Duke of Devonshire invited nearly 4,000 members of the United Conservative and Liberal Unionist Associations of the Eastbourne Parliamentary Division of Sussex; whether the band went to the garden party with the permission of the colonel of the regiment; and whether it is with the sanction of the Secretary of State for War that soldiers in a Queen's regiment were allowed to take part in a political gathering of a party character.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: Sanction was given by the colonel of the regiment. His action was approved by the General Officer Commanding the Home District, who was under the impression that the engagement was not of a political nature. I have no reason to believe so either.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the Queen's Regulation prohibiting bands from attending political gatherings? Was not this a gathering of the Primrose League?
  *MR. WYNDHAM: I have no reason to believe it was a political gathering.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that cards of invitation
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  were sent out to members of the Liberal Unionist Association for such and such a Division of this county? Is not that a political gathering?
  *MR. WYNDHAM: I am not aware of it.
  MR. SWIFT MACNEILL: Then what is the hon. Gentleman aware of?

  ROYAL RKSERVES—STATISTICS.
  GENERAL LAURIE: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War if he will state the total number of Royal Reserve men who have been re-enrolled and are now serving, distinguishing cavalry, field and garrison artillery, engineers, guards, and Line, and how many corps of each arm of the service have been formed; whether field and garrison artillery and engineers have been formed into separate Reserve units, or whether the men have been utilised to fill up vacancies in existing regular organisations; whether all such Reserve corps are in every respect fully supplied with arms, accoutrements, and other appointments, and whether the mounted portions are fully horsed; and whether these corps are fit to take the field, and have taken part in all field days with other troops where they are stationed.
  *MR. WYNDHAM: The numbers are: —Cavalry, 1,586; Horse and Field Artillery, 1,518; Garrison Artillery, 1,121; Royal Engineers, 437; Foot Guards, 631; infantry of the Line 18,055; other corps, 429; total, 23,777—out of 28,262 who offered their services. Four cavalry Reserve regiments and eighteen infantry Reserve battalions have been formed; in other arms the men have been posted to existing units. The Reserve units are not yet fully supplied with arms and accoutrements; some 230 rifles, 1,250 swords, and 3,000 sets of accoutrements and 500 waistbelts remain to be supplied. The cavalry regiments are not yet fully horsed; horses are furnished gradually as the regiments apply for them. In some cases the generals under whom these units are serving consider them already fit to take the field; but in others, owing to their musketry training being unfinished or their accoutrements incomplete, they are not yet ready.
  GENERAL LAURIE: Will the men of the field artillery be retained at the end of the twelve months, or will fresh men be called up?
  *MR. WYNDHAM: The question of retaining for service any of these men has, as I have already informed the House, been considered, and we shall do so in some cases, though it will not be the general rule. Probably in the case of artillery there is a stronger reason for doing so than in other cases.

  AUSTRALIAN AND WELSH COAL FOR THE NAVY.
  MR. COHEN: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty if he can inform the House whether Australian coal, which is obtainable at Hong Kong, has been used for Her Majesty's ships now engaged in China; and if so, what is the amount so purchased; and whether he can inform the House approximately of the cost per ton to the Admiralty of Welsh coal at Hong Kong, and what is the price per ton deliverable at Hong Kong, all charges included, at which Australian coal has been offered to the Admiralty.
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (Mr. GOSCHEN, St. George's,): No information has been received of any purchase of Australian coal at Hong Kong, and no Australian coal has been bought here for Hong Kong. Offers of Australian and New Zealand coal delivered at Hong Kong have ranged since the 1st April last from 38s. to 54s. per ton. The price of Welsh coal during the same period has been from 38s. 6d. to 61s. per ton for cargoes shipped by the Admiralty from Cardiff.

  DISTILLING SHIPS.
  MR. YERBURGH: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty whether the Admiralty have under consideration the construction of distilling ships of adequate capacity for the service of the Mediterranean Fleet.
  MR. GOSCHEN: The Board have had under consideration for some time past the provision of distilling ships for service with fleets, and two hired vessels are now under trial in the manœuvres.

  PENALTIES FOR BREACH OF NAVAL CONTRACTS.
  MR. EDMUND ROBERTSON: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty whether his attention has been called to the Report of the Public Accounts Committee animadverting on the failure of the Admiralty to enforce penalties for breaches of contract for the amount of £113,760 under the Shipbuilding Vote in the year 1898–99, and on the failure of the Admiralty to answer the Treasury Letter relating thereto, dated 28th March 1899, and to similar animadversions in connection with Vote 9; and whether he can now state to the House the defence, if any, of the Admiralty to these censures.
  MR. GOSCHEN: No, Sir. My attention has not been specially called to the Report in question. I am informed that the letter referred to did not seem to call for a reply, and that none was asked for. The defence of the Admiralty to the so-called "censures," if I wished to make one, would be that the question involved is one of administration, on which it is possible to hold opposite views, and not one of finance. I may remind the hon. and learned Gentleman once more that the policy of the present board as to penalties is still the same as that of the board of which he was a Member.
  MR. GIBSON BOWLES: Was not the Admiralty's defence before the Committee that it was practically impossible to enforce these penalty clauses
  MR. GOSCHEN: That would be a question of administration.

  PENALTY CLAUSES IN ADMIRALTY CONTRACTS.
  MR. EDMUND ROBERTSON: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty whether the new form of Admiralty contract has been finally settled; and, if so, whether a copy will be laid upon the Table before the Second Reading of the Appropriation Bill; and if he can explain why contracts for the delivery of armour plates and of electrical apparatus contain, as stated by the Report of the Public Accounts Committee, no penalty clauses.
  *THE SECRETARY TO THE ADMIRALTY (Mr. MACARTNEY, Antrim, S.): The answer to the first paragraph is in

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  the negative. On the final revision a point of considerable importance was reserved for discussion with the Law officers. It was found impracticable to insert penalty clauses in contracts for armour plates, and with regard to contracts for electrical apparatus which are made by the Director of Navy Contracts, penalties are omitted in accordance with the general policy pursued since the formation of his Department some thirty years ago.

  DISCHARGED SEAMEN—CASE OF JOHN BLYTHE.
  MR. SEELY: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he can reconsider the case of John Blythe, who was discharged from the Navy on the 4th May, 1900, with a gratuity, with the view to granting him a pension, as he states that he was injured in the back by a fall while on service, and is now partially paralysed.
  THE CIVIL LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (Mr. AUSETEN CHAMBERLAIN, Worcestershire, E.): I am glad that my hon. friend has given me an opportunity of stating the facts of this case. The chairman of the Isle of Wight Board of Guardians is reported to have stated to that board that Blythe was badly wounded in the back at Zanzibar in 1896, and that he had malarial fever in the Benin expedition and was now suffering from paralysis as a result, and that it was a standing disgrace to this country that no more provision should have been made for one who had become incapacitated when fighting for his country. It would appear from the official records that these statements are wholly untrue, that Blythe was not wounded at Zanzibar, and that he was not landed in the Benin expedition. His medical history sheet shows that ho was not a healthy man, but there is no record of his ever having suffered from malarial fever. I shall be glad to show it to my hon. friend if he cares to see it. Blythe had less than seven years service, and his invaliding was not due to the service. Under these circumstances the Board cannot increase the pension already awarded. I regret that the chairman of the board of guardians did not communicate with the Admiralty before making an attack based upon statements which appear to be wholly without foundation.

  INDIA—POPPY CULTIVATION IN BENGAL.
  *MR. H. J. WILSON: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether he is aware that in the Reports of the Bengal Opium Department it appears that the area under poppy cultivation increased from 770,000 big has in 1889–90 to 890,000 big has in 1896–7; that "the increased area obtained was doubtless largely attributable to the necessitous condition of the cultivators"; and that, in the Report for 1897–8, it is stated that "food grains are selling at so high a price that the cultivators are expecting to gain more by sowing wheat, and such crops, than by sowing poppy"; and whether he will call the attention of the Indian Government to the undesirability of tempting cultivators by the offer of Government advances to sow poppy instead of more profitable food crops.
  THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (Lord G. HAMILTON,): (1)I am aware that the area of poppy cultivation in Bengal has increased, nearly as stated in the hon Member's question, between the years 1890 and 1898. The area in 1898 appears to have been considerably below that of 1897. (2) The cultivators are perfectly free to sow food or other crops as they may prefer; and if food crops are more profitable, as stated in the question, they will no doubt sow them. The present system is the result of long experience and much inquiry and consideration, in which full weight was given to the importance of controlling the traffic in opium and keeping it within bounds, and I should be reluctant to interfere with the rules and regulations of a system which has worked well.

  GARRISON CHURCHES FOR PRESBYTERIAN SOLDIERS IN INDIA.
  MR. JAMES A. CAMPBELL: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether he can yet say what action the Government of India have resolved to take on the subject on which representations have been made by the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland, as to insufficient provision in India of special churches or the use of garrison churches for services for Presbyterian soldiers at garrison stations.
  LORD G. HAMILTON: The intentions of the Government of India have been fully explained in the correspondence laid before Parliament—namely, to establish equality of treatment, so far as the provision and use of churches is concerned, between the Church of England and the Church of Scotland. As regards increased accommodation it is proposed to build Presbyterian churches at Rawal Pindi, Sialkote, and Cherat. Inquiries are being instituted on this point elsewhere.

  VENEZUELA—MURDER OF BRITISH VICE-CONSUL AT CIUDAU BOLIVAR.
  MR. PIKE PEASE: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he can give any further information as to the murder, on 26th February, of Mr. James Lyall, acting vice-consul at Ciudad Bolivar; whether the Venezuelan Government have refused to try the murderer, who was taken red-handed; whether Her Majesty's Government have sent Her Majesty's sloop "Alert" to investigate the murder, and whether this means that a trial will be insisted on at an early date; and whether, considering the fact that there is evidence that this was a political crime, and that Mr. Lyall was murdered on account of his official position, Her Majesty's Government will insist upon an indemnity being paid, and in any event make adequate compensation to Mr. Lyall's family.
  *MR. BRODRICK: There is no further information to give respecting the murder of Mr. Lyall. The Venezuelan Government have not refused to try the murderer, but have assured Her Majesty's Charge d'Affaires, who is constantly making representations on the subject, that the proceedings will be conducted properly in accordance with Venezuelan law. An early decision has been pressed for. Her Majesty's ship "Alert" has visited Ciudad Bolivar. Her Majesty's Government must await the full report of the trial before the question of demanding compensation can be considered.

  FRUIT PRESERVING FACTORIES— HOURS OF LABOUR.
  MR. TALBOT: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he can state what steps are being taken to prevent the
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  working of young women and children for excessive hours in the fruit-preserving factories, and whether any improvement has taken place in this industry since attention was called to the abuse of the regulations by the report of the principal lady inspector.
  *THE SECRETAEY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT (Sir M. WHITE RIDLEY,): The danger referred to by my right hon, friend is no new thing. It is the result of the undue latitude allowed by the Factory Acts as they stand at present, the abuse of which it is impossible to prevent without legislation. One of the clauses in the Factory Bill was designed to provide a remedy. In the meantime the law is enforced as far as it will go; and some improvement has been effected.

  METROPOLITAN POLICE MAGISTRATES' JURISDICTION.
  MR. WHITMORE: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he can say when the Report of the Departmental Committee appointed to inquire into the jurisdiction of the Metropolitan Police magistrates and county justices, which was signed in August, 1899, will be presented to Parliament.
  *SIR M. WHITE RIDLEY: I had not intended to publish this Report, and my hon. friend must remember that it by no means follows that Reports of Departmental Committees are presented to Parliament, but in this case I have no, objection to adopt the course suggested.

  THE BURIAL LAWS.
  MR. HERBERT LEWIS: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been called to a case in which the right of interment under the provisions of the Burial Laws Amendment Act of 1880 was refused; and whether the removal of a man to a hospital outside his own parish for six months deprives him of such right of interment in the churchyard or cemetery of the parish in which he has lived for ten years, and in which his family continued to reside during his stay at the hospital.
  *SIR M. WHITE RIDLEY: I presume the hon. Member refers to a case about

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  which he wrote to me a few days ago. I am in communication with the incumbent on the subject; but the question as to any right of interment is one which I have no authority to determine.
  MR. HERBERT LEWIS: From whom can I get an opinion on the point?
  *SIR M. WHITE RIDLEY: I know nothing about the case, so I am afraid I cannot answer.

  RYE BAY—THE REMOVAL OF THE WRECK OF THE "MONICA."
  MR. LUCAS-SHADWELL: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that, not-withstanding the representations made by the Mayor to the Trinity Board on behalf of the Rye fishermen for the lifting instead of the blowing up of the "Monica," this vessel was, on 19th July, blown up, which has resulted in wreckage being scattered over the principal fishing area in Rye Bay, thus rendering losses in fishing gear inevitable, and causing danger to navigation by floating debris; and whether, seeing that the cost of blowing up the "Monica" was in excess of the expense which would have been incurred in her removal by those on the spot, ready to act on the understanding that in the event of failing to remove her they would not ask to be paid, he will represent to the Trinity Board the desirability of its showing some consideration for the interests of the fishing industry.
  THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE (Mr. RITCHIE,): I am informed by the Elder Brethren of the Trinity House that the wreck of the "Monica" was a serious danger to navigation and required to be dealt with immediately. They were unable to entertain the application made to them by the Mayor of Rye to lift the vessel instead of dispersing her by explosives in the usual manner in consequence of the uncertainty as to the success of the operation and the expense involved. An application was subsequently received from the Rye fishermen through the hon. Member to be allowed to undertake the work of lifting the wreck at their own expense, but in the meantime the divers had shattered the vessel beyond any possibility of lifting her. I am assured by
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  the Elder Brethren that, when applications from the fishing interests in similar cases are made at once, and are accompanied by sufficient guarantees for payment of the expenses involved in departing from the prescribed course, full consideration will be given to them.

  ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHERS— APPEAL FROM WRONGFUL DISMISSAL.
  SIR JOSEPH LEESE: I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Committee of Council on Education if he is now prepared to place upon the Table of the House of Commons a Minute of the Board giving a right of appeal to teachers in eases of their alleged, wrongful dismissal by managers of schools, Board and Voluntary, which receive grants under the Day School Code.
  THE VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE COMMITTEE OF COUNCIL ON EDUCATION (Sir J. GORST,): The Board of Education, having considered this question, are of opinion that legislation is necessary, and they hope to introduce a Bill dealing with the subject next session.

  HOLYHEAD NATIONAL SCHOOL.
  MR. ELLIS GRIFFITH: I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Committee of Council on Education whether he is aware that the managers, of the Holyhead National School habitually bring pressure to bear upon all their teachers to attend Church of England services and to be confirmed, and that out of nine Nonconformists employed at the school seven have been obliged to comply with these demands, although the parents are Nonconformists, and that this is the only school available for a Nonconformist district; and whether, seeing that repeated applications by the Holyhead School Board to be allowed to build a school have been refused, and that the National school is generally overcrowded, he will state what steps the Board of Education will take in this matter.
  SIR J. GORST: The statement in the first paragraph of the question is positively denied by the managers of the Holyhead National School. They state that "church attendance is not made a condition of apprenticeship; some of the

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  pupil teachers attend church, some do not. One or two pupil teachers have been just admitted who are Nonconformists and wish to remain such; another who has just left after securing a Queen's Scholarship is still a Nonconformist….. Nellie Roberts is free to continue apprenticeship."
  MR. ELLIS GRIFFITH: I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Committee of Council on Education whether his attention has been called to the fact that repeated demands have been made by the Education Department upon the managers of the Holyhead National School that they should sign the memorandum of agreement of Nellie Roberts, a pupil teacher at the infants' department of that school, but that, although she has been a recognised pupil teacher for over three years, these demands have not yet been complied with; and what reasons are assigned by the managers for their noncompliance.
  SIR J. GORST: I have inquired both in the Department and at the Holyhead National School, and find that no such repeated demands have ever been made. Nellie Roberts had been a pupil teacher for two, not for over three, years.
  MR. ELLIS GRIFFITH: I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Committee of Council on Education whether he is aware that, on the 11th of April last, the Rev. Canon Thomas, one of the managers of the Holyhead National School, called Nellie Roberts and another pupil teacher before him, in the presence of the head teachers, and after inquiring of each if they were willing to attend the services of the Church of England and to assist in the Sunday school, and being answered by the first negatively, and by the second affirmatively, that he proceeded to sign the memorandum of agreement of the latter and informed Nellie Roberts that he would leave her agreement unsigned for a time so as to give her an opportunity of deciding whether she would comply with his demands that she should renounce her Nonconformity; and will he cause inquiry to be made in this case.
  SIR J. GORST: I have made inquiries into this matter. The conversation alleged in the question to have taken place is declared by Canon Thomas to be incorrectly reported.

  COUNTY COURT PAYMENTS AND POSTAL ORDERS.
  SIR CHARLES DALRYMPLE: I beg to ask Mr. Attorney General if he will state the reason of the arrangement by which, while in other courts postal orders are received in payment of small debts, in the City of London money orders only are received, and the exclusion of postal orders is so rigid that if they are remitted instead of money orders, a warrant to levy is issued, as if there had been no tender of payment made; and if it would be possible to make the practice of receiving money and postal orders alike, as in other courts, applicable to the City of London Court.
  THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Sir ROBERT FINALY,): I have made inquiry into the subject of the question, and find that there is no uniform practice in the matter. County court registrars commonly accept postal orders, but there are a good many county courts in which they are not accepted. It is stated that a good deal of inconvenience has in some instances been found to result from remittance by postal order. The matter is, no doubt, one which deserves consideration, and I am taking steps to have in considered in the proper quarter.

  PUBLICATION OF FALSE NEWS.
  CAPTAIN DONELAN: On behalf of the hon. Member for North Leitrim, I beg to ask Mr. Attorney General whether any proceedings are in contemplation against the responsible editors of any daily papers for the publication, during the past few weeks, of unfounded news concerning the situation in Peking, thereby causing pain to the relatives of the members of the British Legation in Peking.
  SIR ROBERT FINLAY: No case of the kind referred to in the question in which proceedings could properly be instituted has been brought to my notice
  CAPTAIN DONELAN: Does the same decision apply to papers publishing unfounded news from South Africa?
  [No answer was given.]

  REGISTRATION PROBLEMS.
  MR. GILES: I beg to ask Mr. Attorney General whether

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  he is aware that an elector is now deprived of the right to vote by reason of his wife or other member of his family being an inmate of the County Lunatic Asylum, although he has duly made the weekly payment demanded of him, on the ground that he is in receipt of parochial relief; and whether, if such a case does not come within the Medical Relief Disqualification Removal Act, 1885, he will take steps to introduce a Bill to remove such disqualification.
  SIR ROBERT FINLAY: So far as I am aware there is no authoritative decision that the case mentioned in the question does not come within the Medical Relief Disqualification Removal Act, 1885. There is no intention at present to propose legislation on the subject.

  RESERVISTS AND THE PARLIAMENTARY VOTE.
  MR. PIKE PEASE: I beg to ask Mr. Attorney General whether he is aware that certain men serving in the Reserve, Militia, Yeomanry, and Volunteer forces in South Africa have failed to pay their rates to 5th January last, which payment is a condition of registration of a person otherwise entitled to be placed on the occupiers portion of the List of Voters; whether his attention has been called to the case of Abel v. Lee (1871) L. R., 6 C., p. 363, which decided that excusal by justices from the payment of rates on the ground of poverty under the Poor Relief Act, 1814, s. 11, is not equivalent to payment; and whether this case has been overruled, and whether cases where the rates have not been paid are covered by the Electoral Disabilities (Military Service) Removal Act, 1900.
  SIR ROBERT FINLAY: The case of Abel v. Lee referred to in the question has not been overruled on the point to which the question relates. The Electoral Disabilities (Military Service) Removal Act of this session does not cover cases of non-payment of rates.

  RECENT POSTAL DELAYS IN LONDON.
  MR. BARTLEY: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether he is aware that irregularity still exists in the delivery of letters in London; and whether he can assure the House that
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  efficient steps will be taken without further delay to restore the efficiency of the Post Office.
  THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY (Mr. HANBURY,): The Postmaster General assures me that he is not aware that irregularity still exists in the delivery of letters in London. If the hon. Member will furnish the covers of any letters that may appear to have been delayed inquiry shall be made respecting them.
  MR. BARTLEY: May I ask my right hon. friend whether there is any distinction in the treatment of letters posted in the Eastern Central district as compared with those posted in other parts of London?
  MR. HANBURY: There is this distinction, that if a letter is put in the wrong box for any district other than the E.C. district—the S.W., for instance— the mistake is corrected at the head office of that district; but, as I understand, that does not happen with regard to letters posted in the E.C. district—that is to say, no re-sorting takes place in that district office, but letters are sent on direct. It is possible delay may arise from that cause, and I will call the attention of the Postmaster General to see if some remedy cannot be applied.

  COMMISSIONERS OF WOODS AND FORESTS' INVESTMENTS.
  MR. HERBERT LEWIS: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury if he can state what amount was invested by the Commissioners of Woods and Forests during the financial year ended 31st March, 1899; and whether any, and, if so, what portion of this amount was invested in the purchase of ground rent; and where are such ground rents situated, and how many years purchase was paid for them.
  MR HANBURY: The amounts invested by the Commissioners of Woods in the year ending 31st March, 1899 were £185,338 8s. 9d. in purchasing estates, and £328,604 0s. 6d. in Stocks, etc. The former sum includes £98,000 invested in purchasing (at 27⅗ years purchase) a freehold ground-rent at Knights-bridge, and £18,585 in purchasing (at 237/10 years purchase) an improved ground

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  rent payable for a term of 78 years secured on Crown property in Regent Street.

  QUALIFYING EXAMINATIONS FOR SORTERS AND TELEGRAPHISTS.
  MR. MAURICE HEALY: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether postmen of more than twenty-five years of age are not eligible to compete for the position of sorting clerk and telegraphist until they have first passed a qualifying examination in telegraphy, and whether, as no other class of public servants have to qualify in official duties before being submitted to the educational test, the regulations will be so modified as to permit postmen over twenty-five years of age to first compete at the educational examination, and, if successful, to allow them a certain period within which to qualify in official duties before being finally promoted.
  MR. HANBURY: Persons who are above twenty-five years of age and are candidates for appointment as sorting clerks and telegraphists are required, before being allowed to compete in the educational examination, to show that they have certain postal and telegraph qualifications, because persons above that age who do not possess the required qualifications find them very difficult to acquire, and their appointment without such a proviso is calculated to lead only to disappointment. It is not proposed to make any alteration in the present practice.

  BRADFORD TELEPHONE SERVICE.
  MR BRIGG: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, if he will explain why one part of the telephone district around Bradford is allowed to communicate by telephone with the post office at Bradford, while other parts of the same telephone district are not allowed the same privilege.
  MR. HANBURY: A certain portion of the Bradford telephone area is also included in the Leeds area. Subscribers in that part may be connected with the exchange system in either area, but not with the systems of both areas. Several of the chief exchanges in the Bradford area are connected with the nearest post
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  offices, and not with the Bradford post office. Possibly the circumstances referred to by the hon. Member are due to these facts, but if he will kindly furnish the Postmaster General with more definite particulars, full information on the subject will be furnished.

  DENBIGHSHIRE POSTAL ARRANGEMENTS.
  MR. MOSS: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether he is aware that the districts of Little Mountain, Wheatsheaf, Bradley, Glanllyn, Brynissa, and Rhosrobin, all in, the parish of Gwersyllt, in the county of Denbigh, contain an aggregate population of 2,041, and have only one delivery of letters each day; and whether, seeing, that representations have been made to Her Majesty's Postmaster General by the Gwersyllt Parish Council as to the desirability of having a second delivery, and having regard to the population of the parish, he can promise that arrangements I will be made for a second delivery of letters in the districts named.
  MR. HANBURY: There is already a second post to Wheatsheaf post office with a delivery to callers after 4.20 p.m. Careful inquiry has been made as to the possibility of providing a second house-to-house delivery of letters at the places mentioned by the hon. Member, but it is found that the correspondence is not sufficient to justify the expense of such a service.

  DUNDEE SHERIFF COURT—VACCINATION PROSECUTIONS.
  MR. EDMUND ROBERTSON: I beg to ask the Lord Advocate whether his, attention has been called to the recent conviction in the Dundee Sheriff Court of a number of men for failing or refusing to have their children vaccinated, and to the fact that accused pleaded conscientious objections, and on conviction preferred to go to prison rather than pay the fines imposed; whether similar cases have occurred in other parts of Scotland; and whether, having regard to the difference now existing between the laws of England and Scotland on this matter, and to the dissatisfaction created thereby, the Government will consider the question of the assimilation of the laws of the two countries on this matter.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. A. GRAHAM MURRAY, Buteshire): I have seen a report of the Dundee case referred to, and I am aware of similar cases in Aberdeen and Kirkcaldy. I believe such cases, however, to be very few. In the six convictions at Dundee referred to five went to prison and one paid the fine. One of the five paid the fine pro tanto after a detention of one day. I have reason to believe that there is a great preponderance of opinion in Scotland in favour of the existing law, and the Government do not propose to consider the question of assimilating the Scottish to the English law.

  PASSENGERS' FREE LUGGAGE IN SCOTLAND.
  MR. BUCHANAN: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether the Scottish railway companies allow their passengers a less amount of free luggage than is allowed by the English railway companies; and whether he will urge upon the Scottish railway companies the expediency of giving their passengers rights as regards free luggage at least as favourable as those allowed by the English railway companies.
  MR. RITCHIE: Yes, Sir; I understand that some of the Scottish companies allow their passengers a less amount of free luggage than that allowed by English companies. This they are apparently authorised to do by the terms of their special Acts. The Board of Trade will use their good offices with the Scottish companies with the object of endeavouring to bring about a uniformity of practice in this respect.

  FRASERBURGH AND ST. COMBS LIGHT RAILWAY.
  MR. BUCHANAN: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether any steps have yet boon taken by the Great North of Scotland Railway Company to construct the light railway from Fraserburgh to St. Combs, the Order for which was obtained last year, and for the construction of which a grant has been promised by the Treasury.
  MR. RITCHIE: I have communicated with the Great North of Scotland Rail way Company, and they inform me that a commencement of the line has been
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  made on their land at the Fraserburgh end, and that the company are in correspondence with the landowners who undertook to provide the other land required for the railway.

  ARRAN ISLANDS (GALWAY) GRAVEYARDS.
  MR. SHEEHY: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether any steps have been taken by the Local Government Board or other authority in preventing injury and desecration of the graveyards in the Arran Islands, Galway, by the grazing of cattle in those places; and if he will state how often within the last twelve months the sanitary inspector has visited these islands for the purpose of inspection.
  THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (Mr. G. W. Balfour,): As already pointed out by me in answer to a previous question of the hon. Member, the matter referred to is entirely one for the local authority to deal with. I understand that the rural district council at their meeting held on Saturday last decided to appoint a caretaker of the burial ground. If the second paragraph refers to the sub-sanitary officer or medical officer of health, I can only say that both of these officials reside on the islands.

  PROPOSED INFECTIOUS DISEASES HOSPITAL AT PURDYSBURN.
  MR. M'CARTAN: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Lord Lieutenant has received a memorial from the County Down County Council against the proposal of establishing a hospital for infectious diseases at Purdysburn near the Belfast Lunatic Asylum whether he is aware that the Belfast Hospitals Act, 1898, under which this proposal is made is permissive and not mandatory, and that the statute is not a public statute; and whether, in the interest of the unfortunate persons mentally afflicted, he will take the whole matter into consideration, with the view of preventing the erection of any such hospital.
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: The reply to the first paragraph is the affirmative. The county council have been informed that under the Act of 1898 the Belfast

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  Corporation are empowered to devote and hold for hospital purposes the whole or any part of the lands in question, and that under the circumstances the Government have no power to interfere in the matter.

  IRISH TEACHERS' RESULTS FEES.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the Commissioners of National Education decided last June that with the first payment of the consolidated income would be remitted the equivalent of a full year's results fees, to teachers who would in every case receive full payment for all services, leaving no arrears; and that, if the results period terminated on 31st March, 1900, the teacher would be paid with the June instalment of income, the equivalent of twelve months results fees up to the 31st March, 1900, £20, and also one-fourth of his consolidated income; and seeing that the first payment of the new income was made to a number of teachers, and that in no case was the equivalent of the year's results fees paid, whether he can say why it was withheld, and when it will be paid.
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: The Commissioners of National Education decided to make payments as stated in the question, and issued a circular on the subject. In a very large number of cases the equivalents of the results fees were issued two days after the consolidated payments for June quarter, and in most of the remaining cases the equivalents have since been sent, and the issue will soon be completed in all cases. It was impossible to complete the remittance of the equivalents concurrently with the consolidated payments, owing to the shortness of the time at the disposal of the office staff and the complexities of the calculations involved.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland can he state whether any of the teachers of Agricultural schools under the National Board have been paid results fees for the year ended 31st March, 1900; and, if not, what is the cause of the delay.
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: These schools have yet to be visited by the inspectors
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  to report specially as to the claims of the teachers. Delay has necessarily taken place owing to the transfer of the agricultural inspector to the new Department of Agriculture. The equivalent grant will be paid as soon as possible.

  IRISH NATIONAL TEACHERS—SALARIES UNDER NEW RULES.
  MR. MAURICE HEALY: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Commissioners of National Education have received a petition from the National teachers of District No. 60, pointing out the hardship, which will result to them in fixing their future salaries under the new rules owing to the results of the examination held in the district for the year ending 30th April, 1898; whether he is aware that this examination was held by an inspector performing temporary duty in the district, that the results fees awarded as the result of this examination were below the average received by the teachers affected before and subsequently, and that there have been several complaints as to the character of the reports of this gentleman both in this and other districts; and whether, seeing that his reports in this district reflected injuriously on many teachers who both previously and subsequently had got excellent reports both for skill in teaching and the general management of their schools, the Commissioners propose to accede to the prayer of the petition that in calculating the future income of the teachers of this district the year in question will be excluded and another year selected instead.
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: Representations have been received by the Commissioners to the effect stated in the first and second paragraphs. The matter will require careful consideration and is at present engaging their attention.

  FAIRYMOUNT SCHOOL, ROSCOMMON.
  MR. TULLY: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Commissioners of National Education can state on what grounds they refused to pay to the assistant teacher in the parish of Fairymount, county Roscommon, three quarters salary, although this amount was certified to be due by the manager of the school; and what redress they propose to offer to the lady who has been thus

  445
  deprived of the money which she alleges she had earned.
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: I am informed by the Commissioners that payment of salary was not allowed to the assistant teacher of the school referred to prior to the 1st October, 1899, because the necessary conditions as to average attendance and accommodation were not fulfilled, and that the circumstances of the case do not admit of any further concession in favour of this teacher.

  LEYNY (NORTH SLIGO) NATIONAL SCHOOLS.
  CAPTAIN DONELAN: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that, owing to the insufficiency of the Government grant for the erection of the proposed new National schools in Leyny, North Sligo, no contractor can be got to undertake the work, with the result that the children of the locality are practically deprived of the benefits of primary education, and that representations have been made on this subject to the Board of Education by the local manager; and whether, as the people of this and other congested districts in the west of Ireland are unable to supplement these grants, he will consider the advisability of having them increased.
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: An application has been made by the manager of the Leyny National school containing representations to the effect stated in the first paragraph. The regulations of the Commissioners of National Education, approved by the Treasury, limit the grant to two-thirds of the cost of the buildings as estimated by the Board of Works, and the Commissioners have, therefore, no power to supplement the grant. I will make further inquiry into the matter.

  IRISH POTATO CROP—SPRAYING.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether any inspectors have been appointed to see that spraying is properly done in Limerick and other parts of Ireland where potato blight has set in; and, if so, whether he can give the names of the inspectors, their qualifications, and remuneration.
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: No inspectors have been appointed for the purpose
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  suggested in the question, either in Limerick or elsewhere, but six persons experienced in spraying operations are employed by the Congested Districts Board in giving instruction in spraying in Donegal and Kerry. Similar instruction is afforded in Donegal, Mayo, and Galway by the six agricultural instructors in the service of the Board. A statement of the names of these persons, with their emoluments, is being prepared, and will be forwarded to the hon. Member.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: Seeing that the potato blight is so very prevalent in Limerick, will an inspector be sent there?
  [Mr. G. W. BALFOUR'S reply was, inaudible.]

  BOYCOTTING AT TALLOW.
  CAPTAIN DONELAN: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, with reference to the alleged case of boycotting at Tallow, county Waterford, if he can now say to whom, and in what manner such alleged boycotting is applied.
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: The person referred to in the question, has been, affected by boycotting in his trade as shopkeeper and merchant. The police have exercised and will continue to exercise the utmost vigilance in affording him every possible protection and assistance, and his position, I am informed, has considerably improved of late. It would, be contrary to practice to mention his name.
  CAPTAIN DONELAN: Is boycotting to be the exclusive privilege of the Prim rose League?

  UNITED IRISH LEAGUE COURTS.
  MR. ARNOLD-FORSTER: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been drawn to resolutions which have been passed by certain. United Irish League courts in the county of Kerry, which were identical in character with the resolutions passed by a Land League court in 1887; and whether the Irish Government proposes to take any steps to protect life and property in districts where these courts are held.
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: My attention has been drawn to resolutions of the kind mentioned in the first paragraph, stated to have been passed at an indoor meeting of the Lixnaw branch of the United Irish League. The Irish Government will continue, as heretofore, to take all such measures as may appear proper for the preservation of life and property in this or any other district in Ireland.

  BALLYGAWLEY PROSECUTION— M'DONNELL'S CASE.
  MR. MACALEESE: I beg to ask Mr. Attorney General for Ireland whether he is aware that the Bally-gawley Bench on the 17th July instant adjudicated in the case of a man named M'Donnell, summoned before them for drunkenness, and sent the accused to Omagh gaol for fourteen days without the option of a fine; whether he is aware that, in employing vehicles for the conveyance of prisoners from Ballygawley to Omagh, the police engage those of a magistrate, who is a posting master; and that other persons than the prisoner and the escort occasionally ride on those vehicles; and will these matters be inquired into.
  THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. ATKINSON,): The hon. Member is under a misapprehension. The summons having been amended at the hearing, the accused was convicted of having been, while drunk, guilty of disorderly conduct. The conviction was therefore legal. Vehicles for the conveyance of prisoners have been hired by the police at the posting establishment of a local magistrate. There does not appear to be anything objectionable in this practice. On four occasions persons other than the prisoners and their escort have been accommodated with seats on these conveyances, but the police have been directed not to permit this to occur in future.

  ENNISKILLEN POSTAL ARRANGEMENTS.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether he is aware that the male sorting clerks and telegraphists employed at the Enniskillen post office are compelled to perform night duty for periods averaging eight months in each year, and that the
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  meal times are arranged irregularly, and that the staff experience discomfort in this respect; whether the Postmaster General has received the petition which has been forwarded to him, but of which the staff has since heard nothing; and whether he will cause inquiries to be made into the case of these men.
  MR. HANBURY: The Postmaster General is aware that the staff of the Enniskillen post office are being put to some inconvenience in the discharge of their duties, and arrangements are under consideration for removing all cause for complaint. They will, it is hoped, be carried out at an early date. The Postmaster General received the petition referred to in due course.

  DUBLIN PARCELS DELIVERIES.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, will he explain why the parcels post deliveries in Dublin are made by the aid of vans, while the postmen in the towns of the county, such as Bray, Howth, and Kingstown, are obliged to carry heavy loads of parcels with the ordinary letter deliveries; and whether it would be possible to provide vans for the delivery of parcels in these towns as well as in the city, in order to expedite the letter deliveries and relieve the postmen of the heavy loads they are now obliged to carry.
  MR. HANBURY: About two-thirds of the parcels for delivery in Dublin are taken out by van, and of the remainder some are taken out by hand carts and some by postmen. At Kingstown also about two-thirds are taken out by van, and the remainder by postmen. At Bray and Howth all the parcels are delivered by postmen. Those arrangements work satisfactorily, and as care is always taken to provide against any postman being overloaded no change appears to be called for.

  KILDALKEY POSTAL ARRANGEMENTS.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether he has received a petition from the inhabitants of Kildalkey and the districts surrounding it asking that the midday delivery of letters now carried

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  from Athboy to Clifton Lodge may be extended to Kildalkey; whether he is aware that under the present arrangement English letters, and letters posted in Dublin after six o'clock for Kildalkey and districts adjoining, are delayed in Athboy from midday until the following morning, and that inconvenience is thereby caused to a number of graziers and cattle traders; and whether he will see that the prayer of the petitioners is complied with.
  MR. HANBURY: The Postmaster General has received an application for a midday delivery of letters at Kildalkey, and the matter is under inquiry. The result shall be communicated to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

  GRAND CANAL COMPANY OF IRELAND.
  MR. M'DERMOTT: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether he has any information as to the alleged intention of the Grand Canal Company of Ireland to abandon the traffic on the river Shannon owing to the conduct of the Irish Board of Works; and whether he will make representations to this Board with a view to their treating the Grand Canal Company in a more generous manner.
  MR. HANBURY: The answer to the first paragraph is in the negative. I am informed that the Board of Works are training the company in all respects in a very liberal manner, and that their conduct compares very favourably with that of the company towards bye-traders on their own canal. The tolls charged to the company by the Board are far below those charged by the company; and the Board are not making any profit out of them.

  CORK TO FERMOY RAILWAY.
  MR. MAURICE HEALY: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether he is in a position to make any further statement as to the construction of the direct line of railway from Cork to Fermoy.
  MR. HANBURY: I received yesterday a letter from the Secretary to the Fish-guard and Rosslare Railway Company stating, "So far as they [the directors] can see at the present time it will probably be about a twelvemonth before they wall be in a position to commence the section of their undertaking from Fermoy to
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  Cork, and I am authorised on their behalf to say that that portion of their line shall be commenced within a twelvemonth from this date." I have inquired what is meant by "commencing," and said that presumably, if this assurance is to be of any practical value, it must mean at least that the whole of the necessary land will have been taken, a contract for the construction of the line been signed, and a bonâ fide start made with the works themselves.
  CAPTAIN DONELAN: Does the correspondence show if any portion of this line has yet been surveyed?
  MR HANBURY: No.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: Seeing that the Amalgamation Bill has passed through the House, I suppose the directors will choose their own time for making the railway.

  ARREST OF NEWSPAPER PROPRIETORS IN IRELAND.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: I have to ask the Chief Secretary for Ireland a question of which I have given him private notice—namely, whether Messrs. P. J. O'Keefe and E. T. Keane, manager and editor respectively of the Kilkenny People, were arrested yesterday morning in their office; whether the offence charged was the publication in their paper of the proceedings of a public meeting; when was the offence committed; under what Act were they arrested and charged; and why the ordinary course of proceeding by summons was departed from in this case.
  MR. G. W. BALFOUR: It is a fact that Messrs. P. J. O'Keefe and E. T. Keane, proprietors of the Kilkenny People newspaper, were arrested yesterday. They are charged with publishing a notice pur-porting to be a report of the proceedings of the Mullinahone branch of the United Irish League and advocating the boycotting of Barton Brothers. The newspaper containing the notice was dated 2nd June, 1900. The prosecution is under one of the Whiteboy Acts (1 and 2 Will. IV., c. 44). The defendants were, on the advice of the Attorney General, arrested on warrants grounded on sworn informations, that being the most expedient mode of procedure under the circumstances. No unnecessary inconvenience was indicted on the accused, who were admitted to bail.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: In consequence of that answer, I ask leave to move the adjournment of the House for the purpose of calling attention to a definite matter of urgent public importance—namely, the arbitrary arrest on warrant of Mr. Patrick J. O'Keefe, and Mr. E. T. Keane, manager and editor respectively of the Kilkenny People newspaper, for having published the proceedings of a public meeting, instead of the institution of proceedings against them by summons, as is usual in the case of press offences.
  MR. SPEAKER: If the hon. Member will read the Sessional Order as to the last two days of Supply he will find that on those two days no such motion can be accepted.
  MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN: If there is no other opportunity of bringing this matter before the House I will do so on the Appropriation Bill.
  MR. SPEAKER: Order, order! This is not the time for making a speech.

  THE ATTEMPT ON THE LIFE OF THE PRINCE OF WALES—THE ACQUITTAL OF SIPIDO.
  SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether Her Majesty's Government made any representations to the Belgian Government in consequence of the result of the trial of the Anarchist Sipido, what was the nature of such representations, and what reply was received from the Belgian Government.
  MR. A. J. BALFOUR: Her Majesty's Government have informed the Belgian Government that they consider the result of the proceedings in connection with Sipido to be a grave and most unfortunate miscarriage of justice, and that they have learned with great surprise and regret that the Belgian Government did not see fit to detain Sipido pending a decision as to the course they should take in view of the verdict of the jury. The Belgian Government have not yet replied.

  COAL SUPPLY—SUGGESTED ROYAL COMMISSION.
  MR. D. A. THOMAS (Merthyr Tydvil): I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, having regard to the
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  growing scarcity and dearness of coal, and in view of the altered circumstances of the Trade since the inquiry into our coal, resources made by Royal Commission a generation ago, and the fact that experience has shown the conclusions of that Commission to be erroneous, he can now see his way to cause a fresh inquiry to be made in order to remove the uncertainty that prevails as to the quantity of coal remaining unworked and available for naval, domestic, manufacturing, and, commercial purposes.
  MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I do not think the scarity and dearness of coal have any relation to the larger issue dealt with in the main part of the question. The question of a revised survey of the coalfields is, I understand, engaging the attention of a Committee now sitting in, regard to the geological survey, and a Report will be made to the Lord President of the Council. I think it will be found useful to collect tabulated information with a view to determining whether it is necessary to hold further inquiry into, this very important subject.

  BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
  SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN: Will the right hon. Gentleman give an explanation as to the, business for to-morrow and Monday?
  MR. A. J. BALFOUR: I do not think I have any detailed information to give. As the right hon. Gentleman knows,to-day and to-morrow are allocated to Supply. After that we shall do our best, to hurry through the remaining Orders of the Day, which are not of a controversial character. If the House will consent to expedite matters, there ought to be no difficulty in proroguing on Wednesday.

  MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
  That they have agreed to—Customs Duties (Isle of Man) Bill, without amendment.
  That they have agreed to—Agricultural Holdings Bill, and Post Office Sites Bill, with Amendments.

AGRICULTURAL HOLDINGS BILL.
Lords Amendments to be considered upon Monday next, and to be printed. [Bill 320.]

DEATH OF HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS THE DUKE OF SAXE-COBURG AND GOTHA.
THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR,): Mr. Speaker, it is only a few hours ago that I had to ask the House to pass a resolution expressing our sympathy with the misfortune that had befallen the people of Italy, and our horror at the dastardly crime by which that misfortune was caused. I now have to ask the House again to pass a vote of sympathy, but, if possible, this motion is one which touches us more intimately and more nearly than that which I moved on Tuesday last, for the subject of my resolution is a Prince of our own Royal House, a countryman of our own, and a sailor of the British Navy of distinguished capacity. Mr. Speaker, the Duke of Coburg's death is not surrounded by those circumstances of violence and crime which attended that other Royal death to which I have referred, but in its suddenness and in its unexpectedness it produces, and must produce, an equal shock, an equal pain, an equal sympathy with those who are the most immediate sufferers. His Royal Highness was not only, as I have said, a Prince of our Royal House, and a member of one of the noblest and most exacting professions, but the high authorities I have consulted are unanimous in telling mo that he worked at that profession in no holiday spirit, and that he excelled as a sailor in competition with the very best of those with whom he was brought into contact. He worked his way through the ranks of that service, and when he reached the highest post of responsibility as Commander of the Mediterranean Fleet he proved himself to be not only an unequalled master of detail in all that concerned the naval service, but, what is of even more importance and is even of rarer occurrence, he showed himself to be a master of naval tactics—to excel in the manipulation of a great modern steam fleet. It was not given him in actual war to show how his great naval accomplishments could have been brought practically to the service of his country, but the work which he did in his profession was of the kind for which I think we, who depend upon the Navy for our very existence, may well bear him national gratitude. Sir, these are reasons why we should remember with respect and sorrow, on his own account, the Duke of Coburg; but it is not simply in relation to the
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great loss that has been sustained by his death that I ask the House to pass this resolution. The motion which I have put on the Paper expresses more than this; it expresses the sympathy of the House and of the country, so far as this House represents it, towards the wife and towards the mother. Those, Sir, are not feelings which I should care to do more than to indicate on an occasion like this, but they are present to all our minds. When the wife with whom we sympathise is one who has gained so much of the affections of the people of these islands as her Imperial Highness the Duchess of Coburg, and when the mother is the Queen of this, country, whose sorrows are our sorrows and whose joys are our joys, then, Sir, I feel that this resolution will be passed by the House with more than common feelings of earnest sympathy. I do not think it is necessary to add anything to what I have said, or to reinforce the words of the resolution themselves, for I know that they will commend themselves to the hearts and to the feelings of every man whom I am addressing, be his opinions or his politics what they may. I will therefore content myself with asking the House to accept the motion standing in my name.
SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN: Sir, it is not a mere formal duty that the right hon. Gentleman invites the House of Commons to discharge. In passing this resolution, we not only follow former precedents and walk in the path prescribed by constant, usage, but it is the instinct of our hearts that we obeyx2014;the instinct of loyalty and devotion, and I may even say, of gratitude and affection. It has often been said of our gracious Queen—and our experience down to the most recent days amply vouches for it—that she suffers with all the sufferings of her subjects. Not less is it true, Sir, that any sorrow which affects the Queen or her Royal House touches deeply the hearts of all her people. And when, as on this occasion, a beloved son is taken from her by the awful stroke of death, it is the desire, quite as much as the duty, of the House to approach the Throne with dutiful expressions of sympathy. The Queen has made her life a life of duty, and therefore of happiness, and she has not been spared by the heavy hand of affliction, a hand which rests equally upon the palace and the cottage; and our

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earnest hope is that she may support this most recent stroke with the same fortitude which has been proved before, and that Her Majesty's health, so precious not only to us and the people of these islands, but to the whole Empire—and I will even say to the whole world—may be fully sustained. Sir, it is, however, not only feelings of grief and sympathy that inspire us at this moment; we have also in our breasts a sentiment not less genuine, a sentiment of cordial regret. The Duke of Coburg was not only a German reigning Sovereign, he had not ceased to be a British Prince; and while we share the admiration with which his subjects and neighbours have seen him loyally and successfully set to work in his new duties and accomplish all that was required of him, and seen the skill with which he merged the old Prince in the new ruler, we still remember him and think of him rather as the Duke of Edinburgh than as Duke of Coburg. We remember the part he played in our national life, the readiness he showed on all occasions, as his Royal brothers and sisters have ever done, to display interest in any patriotic and philanthropic purpose. We remember, above all, the career which the right hon. Gentleman has referred to, his devotion to the noble profession to which from his boyhood he belonged, and the great service which, while he followed his seaman's career, he rendered to his country. I do not know if I am going too far in saying this, but surely when we see how this Prince, so essentially British by birth, by training, by associations, by sympathies, by his whole career—when we see how he was able with the most perfect success to fill the role of a loyal, unimpeachable, and acceptable Gorman ruler—surely we may believe that there is something between these two great nations, some affinity, some element of homogeneity, which will triumph over every passing suspicion or passing jealousy, and over the narrow views of selfish men. Therefore it is with grateful feelings that we record our sense of the loss which both nations have, by this Prince's death, sustained, and while we thus think of the Queen and her Royal House, and of the nation, we do not forgot the widowed Duchess of Coburg and her daughters, and we tender to them our respectful sympathy. I beg, Sir, to second the motion.
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Resolved, nemine contradicente, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty to express the deep concern of this House at the great loss which Her Majesty has sustained by the death of His Royal Highness the Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Duke of Edinburgh, K.G., second son of Her Majesty the Queen, and to condole with Her Majesty on this melancholy occasion; to assure Her Majesty that this House will ever feel the warmest interest in whatever concerns Her Majesty's domestic relations; and to declare the ardent wishes of this House for the happiness of Her Majesty and her family. —(Mr. A.J. Balfour.)
To be presented by Privy Councillors and Members of Her Majesty's Household.
Resolved, nemine contradicente, That this House do condole with Her Royal and Imperial Highness the Duchess of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Duchess of Edinburgh, on the great loss which she has sustained by the death of His Royal Highness the Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Duke of Edinburgh, K.G.—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)
Ordered, That a message of condolence be sent to Her Royal and Imperial Highness the Duchess of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Duchess of Edinburgh, and that Mr. Speaker do communicate the said message to Her Majesty's Minister resident at the Court of Saxony and Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, with a request that he will attend Her Royal and Imperial Highness the Duchess of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Duchess of Edinburgh, for the sake of conveying it to Her Royal and Imperial Highness.—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

SUPPLY [22ND ALLOTTED DAY].
Considered in Committee.
(In the Committee.)
[Mr. J. W. LOWTHER (Cumberland, Penrith) in the Chair].

SUPPLY [22ND ALLOTTED DAY].
  CIVIL SERVICE ESTIMATES, 1900–1901.

    Class II.
    1. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £45,501, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the

    457
    charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, for the salaries and expenses of the Department of Her Majesty's Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs."
    *SIR CHARLES DILKE: Some hon. Members may take the view that it is possible and useful on this occasion to discuss our foreign relations in the ordinary sense of the word, but I confess it would be difficult for me to imagine an occasion more unsuitable than the present for a general discussion on the state of our foreign relations. Our relations with foreign Powers have been described to us very recently by the Prime Minister in language to which reference was made in the debate yesterday in the remarkable speech of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Monmouth. I agree that if we had a serious discussion on the alarming state of things revealed it might not conduce to the continuation of those good relations which now exist in the neighbourhood of Peking, and to the advance towards Peking to which the country attaches so much importance at the present time. But although this is not an occasion on which we can properly discuss our foreign relations generally, still we may usefully ask questions in order to elucidate the policy of the Government. To discuss that policy, to try and probe it to the bottom, and to try and throw the responsibility where ultimately it will be thrown would not conduce to those good relations between the allied Powers which we all desire to have continued, especially at the present moment, when we are executing allied operations in China under circumstances of the greatest gravity. A Blue-book which was lately laid before the House shows certain symptoms of difference on certain points, and indicates certain temporary divergences between the allied Powers; and for us to insist on taking advantage of any rifts that may appear would be, I confess, a task which I for one should not attempt to undertake, and which would not be to the interest of the country. Of course, in China, as generally, it is impossible to avoid seeing the obvious fact that our foreign relations are at this moment coloured by our colonial affairs, and that the war in South Africa must have a
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    marked effect on our diplomacy throughout the world. There are only two questions to which I will call the attention of the Committee before I come to a matter on which I wish to ask the judgment of the Committee. These two matters appear to have grown out of our situation in South Africa. A statement has been made during this session by the Government with regard to Corea which may have the gravest consequences in the future, and which I think ought not to pass without some statement on the present occasion, which is the first occasion on which the Foreign Office Estimates have been taken since that statement was I made. There was not in actual words any great difference between what was said by the present Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs and what was said some years ago by the hon. Baronet for the Berwick Division; but there is a difference in tone which I confess appears to me to be marked, and I shall be very glad indeed if the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs is able to-day to remove the impression which has been produced in the minds of a good many hon. Members on both sides of the House. The Committee will remember that at the time when this country evacuated Port Hamilton, long negotiations took place in which Her Majesty's Government were concerned, they not being negotiations between China and Russia alone. As a result of those negotiations, there was laid before the House of Commons a Parliamentary Paper which showed that Russia had made a promise to China—which we noted and informed Parliament of—to the effect that Russia would not occupy at any future time any Corean territory. The late Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs was asked questions at various times as to whether, under the altogether I changed circumstances, that promise was still binding, and he made a distinct, statement which it is unnecessary for me to quote—he is present and will correct me if I am wrong—that that promise was in the middle of 1895 still binding, and there was no reason to suppose that down to the present year it had in any way ceased to be binding. But when the present Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs was asked not very long ago a question on the matter, I confess I thought he went rather out of his way, in a manner which the form of question did not render necessary, to state that the assurance

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    given by Russia was not an assurance given to Her Majesty's Government, but an assurance given to another Power; and although I still hope he may be able to remove the impression which these words created, he will not deny the fact they did create an uneasy impression, and that they in some degree weakened the position as it was left by the Parliamentary Paper and the assurances of the hon. Baronet. He seemed to imply that an assurance given to China under the circumstances was not an assurance given to us, and did not form in any sense a guarantee to us as regards the future. It was called a guarantee in the "Map of Europe by Treaty," which is generally looked upon as a semi-official publication. I need hardly suggest to the Committee the notorious fact that most of our Far-Eastern guarantees, both territorial and for our trade, depend upon assurances of this kind which have been given to other Powers, and which we have always treated as being substantially given also to ourselves. The other of the two matters I wished to mention in this connection concerns the recent agreement with Germany, known as the Samoan Agreement. There also South Africa has played a very leading part. The Samoan Agreement is one which at first sight appears to be satisfactory to Australia and New Zealand as regards their trade, because the islands named are covered by an extension of the Free Trade provisions which have previously concerned islands subject to an arrangement between Germany and ourselves. But that feeling of satisfaction is not entertained in Australia and New Zealand—for this reason. This freedom of trade has been broken down in practice by a licence system. These licences are nominally given to the subjects of all Powers, but in practice Australians and New Zealanders engaged in trade in the islands have found that the licences are refused, for one reason or another, to firms in which there is not a German manager. Unless firms, nominally New Zealand or Australian, have German managers or German capital it is very difficult for them to obtain these licences, and the freedom of trade provisions are thus rendered nugatory. The Prime Minister of New Zealand has made a very important declaration on this point. He shares the view I have put before the Committee
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    that it is our South African embarrassments which have caused us to conclude this agreement, and he has said that there can be no doubt that had a council of the colonies been held it would have averted what he believed was inimical to Australia and New Zealand—namely, the Samoan Agreement. In that agreement the Germans give up something to which they had no right. They give up their rights in Tonga, where they have never had any rights at all. The worst point in the agreement, in my opinion, is that which concerns the two Solomon Islands which are picked out as our share and given by Germany to us. These islands are inhabited by a population probably always ferocious, but the feelings of which toward Europeans have not been improved by the kidnapping of their people through the help of bribes to chiefs, which has been carried on for many years partly by our own countrymen, but largely by the subjects of other Powers. The bad point to which I wish to refer is that under the agreement the Germans are to continue to enlist labour in these islands, although they are nominally under British protection, and to carry on this practice of kidnapping. I have now finished these general remarks. If I were dealing with the matter more widely I should endeavour to convey to the Committee my sense of the crudity of these attempts to patch up our relations with the German people by little sacrifices of this kind. The whole Government policy towards Germany, with its occasional proclamations of an alliance which does not exist, and occasional attempts to secure an alliance in a mode calculated to defeat its own object, might be made matter of remark, but I prefer to confine myself to these two cases, in which I cannot but think our South African embarrassments have gravely influenced our policy in a way which is open to the comments I have made. I will now pass to a matter upon which I wish to take the judgment of the Committee to-day. It is a matter which several of us mentioned last year, and upon which we should then have taken the judgment of Parliament but for the fact that at a late period in the debate a complete surrender, as we thought, to our views was made by the Government. It did not enter my mind that it would be necessary to raise the question this year. It seemed to me that we had accomplished

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    our object, and obtained all we asked for. No doubt I interpreted the words of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in a wide, but still in that generous sense in which we always interpret declarations of Ministers in this House—generous, that is, in the sense of seeing in those declarations a little more than the words actually used, and believing that when the probability of a settlement is announced in cheerful tones a settlement is really and closely in view. It is the matter of Waima to which I refer. It is a case in which there has been dreadful delay, and under circumstances which reflect upon the national honour. It was the case fourteen months ago, and, therefore, still more is it the case now, that the time had come for a settlement. Personally, I feel that, unless we can settle this matter tonight, it is useless for us to bring it before the House of Commons year after year. It is a small matter, but it is one of great importance from its bearing on the manner in which statements in Parliament are to be interpreted——
    *THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. BRODDRIVK,): Perhaps I can save the right hon. Baronet going further into the matter. I have a statement to make with regard to Waima which I think will be satisfactory to the whole Committee.
    *SlR CHARLES DILKE: I am very glad to hear it, and I will not go into the details of the matter. I will simply say that last year the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the debate on the 9th June, used these words—the Committee will by them be able to judge whether the statement of the Under Secretary tonight is of a sufficiently definite character to render it unnecessary to continue the debate on this point—
    "This is a case in which compensation has been demanded from the French Government, but until the last few days we have had no real reason to suppose that the request for compensation would be favourably considered by the French Government."
    And then he made an announcement in the following words—
    "I am happy to be able to say that very recently we have had reason to believe that this matter may be favourably considered by the French Government."
    I hope we shall have to-night an absolutely definite statement that this matter has been arranged. After that debate
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    £200 was given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer—£80 to the family of one of the officers, and £60 each to the families of two others who were killed on that occasion—but I do not know that any relief has been given to the dependents of the sergeant-major of the West Indian Regiment or of the seventeen non-commissioned officers and men who were killed or severely wounded. However that may be, the sum of £200 was given, and now there has been these fourteen months further delay. On the 17th May the Under Secretary was asked how matters were progressing, and he then stated that we had sent a note to France, but had had no reply. On the 28th June the hon. Member for the Leek Division asked for a copy of the despatch of the 29th March which had been addressed to the French Government on the subject; but that despatch was not given. What I gather has occurred is this: In January we had already reached the point of having said there should be arbitration on this question, but another case, that of the detention of a ship on the Niger, had been mixed up with it. In January we accepted the principle of arbitration on that case also, and £5,000 was fixed as the lower limit of the amount of money we might be called upon to pay. In March the upper limit of £8,000 was accepted, but I believe in the despatch asked for it was found that again another case, that of Lieutenant Mizon in 1892, had been mixed up in the matter. I wish the Under Secretary to make it clear to us whether this case is now to be considered by itself or mixed up with other cases. I hope a definite announcement will be made that the matter will not be left as it has been, so that we may not feel that, while we paid more or less cheerfully and at once £10,000 in connection with Uganda in regard to a matter which occurred much later than this, and in which we have never admitted we were in the wrong, yet this matter is allowed to drag on from December, 1893, notwithstanding the statement of last year to which I have referred. I beg to move the reduction of the Vote by £100, but, of course, I shall withdraw the motion if the statement of the hon. Gentleman is satisfactory.
    Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Item A (Salaries) be reduced by

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    £100 in respect of the salary of the Secretary of State."—(Sir Charles Dilke.)
    *SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: I have heard with great pleasure the announcement that this Waima case is in course of settlement. It is a very serious case, and has dragged on for a very long time. I brought it repeatedly before the House myself from 1893 to 1895. I am glad to know now that that is going to be settled in a satisfactory way. With regard to the conditions which very seriously affect British commerce and manufactures in the Ottoman Empire I should like to say a few words. We go very far afield in search of commerce. Our difficulties in China are practically caused by the commercial enterprise of our people, and yet for a long period of years we have been neglecting, and I am afraid we are still neglecting, a very large field which is much nearer and far more easy of access for British commerce and manufactures. There are two or three cases that I should like to bring to the attention of the House which are of great interest to British manufacturers at the present moment, as showing the difficulties with which they have to contend. One case I have endeavoured to bring to the attention of my right hon. friend by the unsatisfactory method of question and answer, but without much success. I refer to the re-armament of the Turkish fleet. The history of this case in itself summarises the difficulties with which British traders have to contend. The Ottoman Government invited tenders for the re-armament of a certain number of Turkish war-ships. The English tenders were £80,000 below the German tenders, and our guns are said to be better, longer, and to carry further than German guns—I may say that I am not connected with this business and have no interest whatever in it—although that tender was made and the Turkish Minister of Marine was strongly in favour of giving that contract to the British firm, great pressure was brought to bear upon the Turkish Government by the highest influence in Germany. The decision was held over and an opportunity given for the German firm to tender again. The German firm reduced their tender, and the English firm reduced its tender, with the result that there was the same difference
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    in the tenders. The English tender was still £80,000 lower. In spite of that the British firm was unable to get the order, and the last I heard of it was that tremendous pressure was being brought to bear upon the Turkish Government to give their order to the German firm. It is not fair that British manufacturers should be subjected to this kind of political competition, and if it is continued I hope the British Minister at Constantinople will be asked not merely to make one casual representation, but to make constant and vigorous representations upon this subject. I make no complaint as to the action of our Ambassador at Constantinople, who, I believe, is fully alive to the course of events. I merely wish to call the attention of the right, hon. Gentleman to the fact that this unfair German pressure is being continued. In connection with railway construction there is an enormous field open to British manufacturers; there is, perhaps, no other country in the world which offers such an opening for railway construction that would so benefit the people of the country itself and outside communities as the Ottoman Empire. There is no country in the world where railway construction would do so much good to improve the condition of the people at large and those interested in commerce. There is a railway which everybody has heard of for years—the Bagdad Railway, or the Euphrates Valley Railway. The competition for the Euphrates Railway has been going on the last thirty years, and lately has been renewed. British contractors undertook to construct that railway on terms which would have been advantageous to all concerned. What is the result? The English offer was far more advantageous than the German offer, but, owing to the great political pressure which Germany brought to bear, the British firms were pushed entirely out of the field, and the Germans obtained the concession. And what did they do? They took advantage of their position to double the former estimate for the railway, and they have demanded of Turkey an enormous kilometric guarantee amounting to £1,000,000 a year. This is twice as much as is needed, and is only asked in order to swell the profits of the: German financers. Such demands as the successful Germans are making are impossible for Turkey to bear, and only render the construction of the railway

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    practically impossible, and cause great injury to trade and greater injury to British manufacturers. I hold that the influence of our Government ought to have been more strongly asserted in support of the British capitalists who were endeavouring to obtain that concession. After Germany had obtained this concession, what else happened?—and this is a far more serious matter. The Russians, not to be outdone, came down and put more political pressure upon the Turkish Government in order to obtain the monopoly to construct all the northern lines in a large district of Asia Minor, and by the mobilisation of an army of 100,000 men upon the Turkish frontier, they succeeded. They have obtained the monopoly for railway construction in the whole of northern Asia Minor, where there are districts of great wealth. It would be an enormous boon to the people if railways are constructed; but the Russians have no money to construct them, and do not intend to do so. Everybody else is debarred, because of the monopoly which has been created, and a great injury will be inflicted upon Turkey, and upon British commerce and manufacture. There is railway construction to the amount of from £20,000,000 to £50,000,000 to be done in Turkey, and it is all being lost to British manufacture. I have ventured to go into some detail, because these are questions of great importance; but the question upon which I wish to trouble the House to-night—and it is a question which excites universal interest in this country —is the condition of affairs in China. We have indeed reason to be grateful that the news which has reached this country during the last few days is of a more satisfactory and cheerful character than most people could have anticipated a few weeks or even days ago. There is not a Member of this House who will not rejoice to know that the Ministers of the Powers at Peking are, so far as we know to-day, in a state of comparative safety. But, although we are relieved from the immediate and most grievous anxiety with regard to their condition, yet the position is still serious and is not likely to diminish in gravity as the allied or British forces go up to Peking. Many of us have been surprised during the past eight weeks at the delays which have occurred at taking active measures for the relief of the beleaguered
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    Ministers and Europeans in Peking. This is the 2nd of August. Eight weeks have now elapsed since the world knew that the situation was one of extreme seriousness, and certainly seven weeks have now elapsed since it was known that the position of the Legations was one of extreme peril; still no serious attempt was made for their relief, although now at last it seems possible that a forward movement has begun. Why has this long delay taken place in the expedition for the relief of the Legations and the Europeans in Peking? Why were not steps taken earlier to seek the active help of the only Power who could send a force immediately to their relief—Japan? The first distinct request to Japan was made on the 25th of June. Why was not that request made three weeks earlier, when the gravity of the position was known, and why was it not pressed more actively? We are now over five weeks from that date, and, so far as we know, no considerable Japanese force is yet on its way to Peking. It would have been possible, if the Government had made clear representations to Japan that she would have been sure of support from this country in case of her taking action, for the Japanese forces to have reached Peking at the outside within four weeks. The British despatch of 6th July, guaranteeing support to Japan, ought to have been sent on 8th June. As it has turned out, the most awful and terrible catastrophe which we feared had taken place has been most mercifully avoided, but the question of delay is one which I feel justified in pressing upon the attention of the House, and one with regard to which we are entitled to have some explanation. The right hon. Baronet the Member for the Forest of Dean in his speech deprecated any reference to the difficulties of the political position in China for reasons which he did not explain in detail, but in general terms he dreaded the endangering of the-so-called Concert of Europe. The right hon. Baronet has a very good reason for trying to defend "the Concert of Europe," because that interesting fiction originated at the period when he was Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs in the Government of Mr. Gladstone. Then we heard for the first time of what I call the mischievous fiction of the Concert of Europe put forward as a serious item of political belief. I hold that what is

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    called the Concert of Europe is the curse of all our dealings with those Eastern questions, and is likely to prove a still greater danger than it has been in the past. I hold it for this reason: "the Concert" is a chimera. It does not exist. There is no real concert, and there can be no real concert. To suppose that British policy in China can be identified with Russian policy, or even French policy, is to blind ourselves to the essential conditions of the whole Chinese problem. History in the past has shown the absurdity of this effort. Whenever we have tried to adapt our policy to the Concert of Europe we have failed. Between 1880 and 1885 Mr. Gladstone's Government failed in everything through trusting to this fictitious Concert. Again, we have had examples in recent times under the Government of Lord Rosebery and under the present Government, from 1893 to 1898, when the same Concert was tried with the same result of failure. We saw what happened in regard to the Armenian policy, the Greek policy, and the Cretan policy of the British Governments. All these were based upon the alleged Concert of Europe, which never existed, and which led to infinite trouble and suffering to our protégés, a great deal of disgrace for England, and to war. It was only when the Government cut themselves adrift from the will-o'-the-wisp of a Concert that we achieved the real successes of Fashoda and South Africa. I say deliberately that if the Government are basing their policy in China upon the supposed Concert of Europe, which does not and cannot exist, they are bound to end in grievous danger, and probably in war. No other result can happen. Ministers may blind themselves for a time. They may blind a large number of the Members of this House and a great proportion of the people of this country by a phrase which is always agreeable and tickling to the palate. Representatives of either Front Bench are fond of deceiving themselves with it, and especially the right hon. Baronet, who always says ditto to the Front Bench on any question of the Concert of Europe. However much Ministers may blind themselves and the country they are bound to end in disappointment and disaster. The position of affairs in China shows that we have come to the parting of the ways in our policy towards that country. It will be impossible after this present revo-
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    lution or rising is put down for this country to allow affairs to go on in China in their old course of drift. There has been nothing but drift in our policy towards China for the last seven years. It will be necessary for the Government to have a policy in China—a clear and defined policy. They will have to adopt a policy based not on the supposed Concert of Europe, which does not exist, and never will exist, but upon all the support they can get from the Great Powers whose interests are the same as theirs and whose views coincide with theirs. We began the policy of drift in China in 1893, when gentlemen on that bench allowed Japan to be driven out of the Liao-Tung peninsula. That paved the way for the present troubles. I believe some of the then Ministers agreed with reluctance to allow Russia to have her way; but they actually did permit Japan to be driven out of the strong positions she had so gallantly conquered. Russia actually expelled Japan from Port Arthur on the hypocritical excuse that it was dangerous for any other Power than China to have possession of Port Arthur. The next crisis came under the present Government, and it was when the Russsan Government requested that our men-of-war should be removed from Port Arthur. This Government allowed our men-of-war to be removed. The Russian Government solemnly stated that they had no design upon Port Arthur, a pledge soon to be deliberately broken by the Czar. That was the second stage in the great policy of drift. It has been going on since. Everyone who looks to what has happened in China must realise that Her Majesty's Government have had no real, determined, and defined policy with regard to that country. Unless the Chinese question is to be opened up in all its vastness and dangers, and unless we are to have throughout the length and breadth of China 400,000,000 people rising against every form of European civilisation, and certain Great Powers struggling to get a hold over China which will keep our commerce out of the country, the British Government must have a clear policy in this matter. What is that policy to be? I venture to say that the time has come —and herein I differ from the right hon. Baronet—for Members of this House who have clear views upon this subject to express them, and to try to induce the Government to adopt a policy which seems

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    to them to be wise in the interests of this country, and for the maintenance of the general peace of the world. There are only two policies, I venture to say, possible in China for the future. I put on one side the policy of drift as hopeless and as unworthy of consideration. The two policies which I venture to describe as possible with regard to China are, firstly, deliberate partition, and, secondly, the maintenance of the independence and the integrity of the Chinese Empire. There are various phases of the partition policy if you like. You may call it a sphere of influence or occupation, but sooner or later it is bound to result in a partition policy. I know that such a policy, in a modified form, is advocated by certain hon. Members. The hon. Member for Chester and his friends have been, in a sort of tentative way, advocating a policy of partition in China. I hold that that policy is most inadvisable and most dangerous. I want to deal at as close quarters as possible with the difficulties into which those hon. Members, I think from want of knowledge, are gradually drifting. They are advocating what they call a Yang-tsze-Kiang Protectorate or sphere of influence. They want us to treat northern China as lost, and they say, "Make up for the loss of northern China by getting possession, so far as we can, of the great central valley of China, which lies around the Yang-tsze river." If that policy were practicable there might be a good deal to be said for it, but it is no use proposing to yourself a policy which you are unable to carry out. Let me ask my hon. friends one or two questions on this subject, and see how they are prepared to deal with the practical difficulties. What you would have to do would be to establish a protectorate over nearly 200,000,000 people. You would have to be prepared to set up in central China another India, and to have an army of 250,000 men to maintain your power there, or to try to maintain your power. I do not think you would lie able to maintain that policy. It is a policy that would set the whole of China against you at once. It is most dangerous, therefore, on that account. It would unify China against this country, and perhaps against all the Powers of Europe. The United States is against such a policy. It is a policy that would set the United States against us, because the United
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    States have made declarations against any territorial partition of China. I doubt very much whether it is a policy for which you would get the support of the German Emperor, and without German support you could not undertake a policy of that kind. The most serious difficulty in relation to this policy, and one with which I have never seen any attempt to deal——
    MR. YERBURGH: I am sorry to interrupt my hon. friend, but I have never advocated the partition of China.
    *SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: I dealt with that contradiction of my hon. friend in my opening remarks with reference to him, but I am afraid they did not receive from him the attention which I hoped they might have done. Though my hon. friend may not use the word "partition" of China, and may even repudiate it, as he has just now done, yet his policy of a sphere of interest or influence, or whatever you like to call it, in the Yang-tsze valley must in the long run, if it means anything at all, and if it is not mere empty verbiage, come to a protectorate. If the hon. Gentleman can get out of that difficulty, I shall be very glad to hear how he does it. He cannot get out of that. He can only indulge in vague generalities. Perhaps he does not mean partition, but in order to maintain a sphere of interest or influence, or practical British commercial preponderance in the Yang-tsze valley, which is what he means, he can only maintain it by a great army and an administrative organisation. I do not think this country is prepared yet, at all events, to sot up a second India in the heart of China. The point I wish to put to the House is that the Yang-tsze-Kiang valley is, from the military point of view, very indefensible. There are no effective strategical positions from which you can defend it against attack from the north. What does a protectorate over the Yang-tsze valley mean to us? It means that the north of China, with a population numbering anything from 50,000,000 to 100,000,000, is to lie abandoned to Russia. What will Russia do then? The first thing that Russia does in any country over which she gets control is to introduce conscription. She will make the Chinese of northern China into

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    splendid soldiers, and we have seen that the Chinese can fight when they are pushed to it. The north of China will be turned into a great recruiting ground for Russia, and in the course of a few years we shall have to face an army of half a million Chinese, disciplined, armed, and led by Russia. What will become of my hon. friend the Member for Chester and his school then? Where will they set up their line of defence? How will they guard the Yang-tsze valley against these vast forces from the north? These are the practical questions which everybody who wishes to regard the future of China from a practical point of view must consider. You cannot divide China without setting up an enormous organisation and army in the centre of China if you intend to hold it. Even then you will not be able to hold it, because the military power of Russia in the north will be so much greater than your own, and will be more unscrupulously directed and worked than you can ever hope to work your defence. For these reasons I hold that the policy of partition, protectorate, sphere of interest, or whatever you like to call it, is impracticable, and ought to be resisted by this House. Now I come to the alternative policy—that of maintaining the independence and integrity of China. The House is committed to this policy already. The hon. Member opposite smiles. Why should he laugh?
    MR. HEDDERWICK: If the hon. Member wishes to know why I laughed, it was because that policy has already been abandoned.
    *SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: Then the laugh of the hon. Member is based on want of information. I deny that the policy of maintaining the independence of China has been abandoned by Her Majesty's Government. There may have been some signs of abandonment and some mistakes committed, but if the hon. Member will examine what has been done by this country and by Germany, and even by France, in regard to China, he will find that at all events the formal integrity of China has been recognised, because all the occupations of territory have been in the nature of leases. The same safeguard applies less to the action of Russia at Port Arthur, although even there the form of lease has been
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    observed. Our great mistake was, of course, in allowing Russia to establish herself there, and that action will continue to have a disastrous effect in China until it is undone. Her Majesty's Government have not yet abandoned the policy of maintaining the independence and integrity of China, and I sincerely hope they will not abandon it. They are committed to it, and it is the only policy in which they can hope to succeed. It is a policy which will bring to their support the 400,000,000 people of China; it is a policy which will get for them the support of Japan, which is all important, because Japan holds the key of the position; it is a policy which will get for them the support of the. United States, which also is important; and it is a policy which will, I believe, get for them the support of the German Empire and of its great ruler. No. Power could upset such a combination as that. We have been told that Manchuria is absolutely lost, that Russia has it already. I deny it. Recent events show that Russian military control over that province is comparatively slight, and that it rests upon a very precarious foundation. A distinct statement on the part of Her Majesty's Government that further inroads upon the integrity of China would, not be permitted would have the effect of at once stopping this aggression on the part of Russia. There is one other subject to which it is necessary to refer in dealing with this question, and that is the influence which a certain Great Power has for some time exerted in China, and which, I believe, is responsible very largely for the present unfortunate revolution in that country. The policy of our great rival in China is exactly the policy that it has been for many years pursuing in Turkey. Russia desires to maintain. China in a state of bad government and rottenness. That is a fact which the Government have to deal with in any arrangements they make for the future. I shall probably be denounced for making; this statement; it will be called a provocative statement; but it is well the truth should be known. This Boxer movement in its initiatory stages has been encouraged; one of the objects of this Great Power being to break up Sir Robert Hart's wonderful organisation, which is one of the great civilising influences in China. The object—I do not say of the Russian Government itself but

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    of the emissaries of our great rival in China—has been to break up that organisation of 8,000 subordinates, who have been by degrees trained under that distinguished Englishman to a service which is unique in the East and which has conferred great benefits upon China. With the object of breaking up Sir Robert Hart's organisation this revolutionary agitation was for a considerable time encouraged. If any hon. Member thinks this impossible or improbable I beg him to read over again the history of the Armenian troubles in Turkey, where he will find that exactly the same influence was used that is now being used in China. The whole of the Russian press of late has been denouncing any interference with Chinese government, except only in the relief of the Legations. It has been saying that China is more important to Russia than the whole of Europe; it has been advocating a refusal to co-operate with this country in any attempt to improve the government or to alter the conditions of life in China. These are very serious facts, and they are facts which I hope the Government will bear in mind. Another point to which I wish briefly to refer is the question of missionaries. Much undeserved opprobrium has been cast upon the action of missionaries in China. I believe they have done, and are doing, a great work in China, although, no doubt, there may have been some indiscretions. If the truth were known I fancy it would be seen that Chinese jealous is directed against our traders quite as much as, or even more than, against our missionaries. I regretted to read the sort of lecture which the Prime Minister gave to missionaries at St. James's Hall, and I am bound to say that if I had been a missionary I should have been disposed to retort that the withdrawal of our men-of-war from Fort Arthur at the dictation of Russia was a far more serious blow to British influence and to civilisation in China than any action of missionaries possibly could be. I hope in the movement now being made towards Peking by our troops great care will be taken to dissociate our soldiers from any acts of violent inhumanity towards the non-combatant Chinese. I sincerely hope that the words of "no quarter,' which have been attributed to the German Emperor, have boon attributed to him in mistake, and that no such spirit will lie allowed to
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    animate our troops. I say this not merely on ground of philanthropy and humanity, but because the influence of similar cruelty on the part of Russian troops in China has already been most disastrous. There is evidence to show that fearful barbarities have been displayed towards Chinese non-combatants, and if we make this a war à outrance similar practices will be continued. I sincerely hope Her Majesty's Government has taken special care to instruct the British generals in command to see that nothing of this kind is done by their troops. I apologise for having taken up so much of the time of the House, but I trust that what the House has given me the opportunity of saying may have some good result. I hope, above all, that not only will our Legation and the Legations of Europe be relieved as soon as possible, but also with as little loss as possible, and I hope this terrible outbreak in China will prove to be a turning point in the history of that country, and in the policy of Her Majesty's Government towards China. I hope that policy will be a clear and distinct policy of reform, based upon maintaining the independence and upon checking the partition of China.
    *MR. YERBURGHsaid he was one of those who thought that while matters were in such a critical condition the less that was said about China the better. After the very pointed attack made upon him by his hon. friend, and the extraordinary manner in which he had misrepresented his views, perhaps the House would allow him to say a few words in reply. In the first place, he wished to say that he had never heard a more mischievous speech than that which had fallen from his hon. friend. So far as he understood it, the speech of his hon. friend was a deliberate and venomous attack upon Russia. Those who had read the Blue-book on China which had just been issued were aware that Russia had behaved in a manner that must receive the approval of everybody. Russia was approached in reference to the sending of Japanese troops, and she raised no objection whatever, although it was known that there must be a certain amount of jealousy subsisting between Russia and Japan. He thought the sentiments upon this question which were contained in the speech of M. Del-

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    casse expressed the views of the majority of the British nation. That was the spirit in which he would ask his hon. friend to approach this question. His hon. friend had misrepresented the views which he and others held by saying they advocated the partition of China. That was not the case. Their argument had been that if China was to be divided we must see that that portion of the country which contained the largest portion of our interests should not be allowed to pass under the control of any other Power, but should remain under the control of China herself. In these conditions it was quite possible that a reformed China might issue from those central provinces, and might in time be able to recover the provinces taken from her. When the Powers got to Peking they would have to decide what indemnity was to be exacted from China for the various crimes that had been committed, and for the attacks made upon property, and other matter of that kind. An indemnity could only be obtained in two ways. One was by territory and the other by money, He hoped that no Power would ask for indemnity in the shape of territory. Then came the difficulty. How were they to get money from a Power which was practically bankrupt? Her revenues were mortgaged up to the hilt, and there was no surplus, and to raise the money would be the most difficult thing in the world. The whole crux of the question was the reform of China. Under a system of reform there would be a very large margin of revenue left, which might be applied to the payment of the indemnity. He thought he was correct in saying that there was at least a leakage of £25,000,000 per annum in the taxes, which ought to go into the Imperial Treasury, but which made its way into the pockets of the Mandarins and other officials. That money could only be obtained by reform. The whole question was bound up in reform. No doubt his hon. friend would say that England would find Russia against her, and that other countries would be opposed to these reforms. He remembered M. Delcassé said that China should be left open for the free play of the capital and the intelligence of the world. We had also recently had the pronouncement of the German Emperor upon this question. He had long hoped that the time might arrive—and he believed this crisis would
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    help it on—when we would see reforms carried on throughout China which would give a new life to the Chinese Empire and revivify the corpse whose approaching dissolution had been productive of the greatest danger to the peace of the world. He apologised for having addressed those few observations, but in conclusion there was one urgent matter with which he should like to deal. In regard to the sufferers in the Waima case, he had heard with the greatest satisfaction that his right hon. friend would be able to say that an arrangement had been arrived at for the payment of compensation. He wished to remind the right hon. Gentleman that the relatives of those sufferers, although they did not come forward as a question of charity at all, were in many cases in a position more or less of destitution and want, and this was a state of things which he was sure the House would be sorry to see. He did not think he was using too strong language in describing this position, and he would ask his right hon. friend whether he could not see his way to get an advance made to those people from the Government, in view of the somewhat lengthy time which must elapse before the compensation was paid. An immediate advance would greatly assist all these poor people. Amongst the sufferers in the Waima case were several native soldiers. They were members of this Empire, and their lives had been taken in the service of the Queen. He thought, therefore, that compensation ought to be given, and he hoped Her Majesty's Government would not lose sight of this fact.
    *SiR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: I quite agree with my hon. friend in regard to the question of reform. I had this question on my notes to deal with more fully, and I thoroughly agree as to its-vital importance. I wish to couple the reform and independence of China together.
    Sir EDWARD GREY: Sir, I rise merely to associate myself with a good deal of what has fallen from the hon. Gentleman the Member for Chester who spoke last. On the subject of Waima I share his satisfaction in the statement which has already been promised by the right hon. Gentleman the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs. He told us that he was sure his

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    statement would be satisfactory to the whole House. If that is so, it means, of course, that it is a statement which assures the prospect of some relief to those who suffered in the Waima case; and if that is so, I associate myself with the appeal of the hon. Member for Chester to Her Majesty's Government to take into their most favourable consideration whether, if the prospect of relief, though assured, is delayed by further discussion, they cannot expedite at any rate some portion of the relief in this case. I also agree, Sir, that this is not a very good time for reviewing the field of politics with reference to China. The hon. Member for the Ecclesall Division always speaks with such boldness on foreign affairs that he covered a great deal more ground than I am disposed to follow him upon. He seemed to provide some amusement for the hon. Member below the gangway when he alluded to the integrity of China. I think I share the amusement of the hon. Member below the gangway, because I think the amusement was caused not at all by the absurdity of the phrase, but by the recollection of the past history of this question and of language which has been used in previous years from the Government Bench. We have heard in previous years a great deal said about the integrity of China, and a great deal also about Port Arthur, about the withdrawal of our own ships, and about our right to scud our ships there again whenever we pleased, which has come to look very pale in the light of events. When one thinks of the past history of this question, one cannot but feel how enormously wrong has been the estimate of the state of affairs, with regard to China, which has been made, I do not say by Her Majesty's Government alone, but by all the Governments who have been mostly concerned with the question. At any rate, I do not think it can fairly be said that the previous Government was responsible for anything that has been the cause of the present rising in China. The causes of the present rising in China are undoubtedly to be found in what has occurred in recent years. I do not blame Her Majesty's Government for that, because they have not led the way in this matter. The causes are now surely obvious to everybody. One cause has been the wrong estimate that has been formed of the condition of China—the idea that
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    China was ripe for partition, that great liberties could be taken, and that large slices of territory could be acquired. That has brought its own Nemesis. I think we ought to remember also that it is not solely the territorial changes in China which are probably responsible for the present rising. There is a great deal not only of anti-foreign, but also of real anti-Christian feeling, at the bottom of the present trouble. There will always be difficulties in connection with missionary enterprise in China. Directly the missionaries acquire an official status, and directly the Chinese feel that the Christian converts cease to. Sympathise with the needs and customs of the village communities in which they live, there will always be difficulty and friction. I do not think the blame lies with our own missionaries in this respect, but we ought to bear in mind that missionary enterprise in China must be carefully conducted without breaking up the local feeling of Chinese communities in the country. As to the punishment which should be exacted for what has occurred, we have been greatly relieved during the last few days as to the prospects at Peking when the allied forces get there. I assume, no doubt the advance towards Peking will be proceeded with as speedily as possible and, without unnecessary delay. But when the advance has been successful the question of punishment will present great difficulties. Territorial indemnity, I hope, is out of the question. Pecuniary indemnity to be anything like adequate must be on an enormous scale, and I think our first object should be rather to discover who in high places have been responsible for the damage done, and make the punishment a personal punishment, in the first instance. Beyond that, surely our hope will be that the outcome of the present troubles may be a better Government for China in the future; and, if there is to be a better Government there will be great difficulty in getting reform and seeing it has a fair chance. It is to our interest that the Government of China should be independent and strong, and a better Government than it has been in the past. But it is not our business, nor the business of the other Powers, to attempt to set up that Government. It must be formed by the Chinese themselves as the outcome of,' their agitation. If it is to be formed by-

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    any foreign Power it will be dependent on that Power, and will not be successful. The other point is that I trust the Government will be successful in keeping themselves free from any further inland territorial acquisition in China of any kind, and may be successful in co-operating with other Powers in accepting that point of view. The hon. Member for the Ecclesall Division deprecated my defending the policy of the Concert of the Powers. The hon. Member has constantly in this House advocated a good understanding with Germany. Here is the policy of the German Government as explained by Count von Billow himself—
    "The object we have in view is the restoration of security for the person and property and the work of subjects of the German Empire in China; the rescue of the foreigners besieged in Peking; the re-establishment and the safe-guarding of law and order under a proper Chinese Government; and retribution and satisfaction for the barbarities which have been perpetrated. We desire no partition of China, and we have no separate advantages for ourselves in view. The Imperial Government feels convinced that the maintenance of an understanding among the Powers is the preliminary condition of the restoration of peace and order in China, and the Imperial Government for its part will continue to attach in its policy the first importance to this standpoint."
    That is the policy of maintaining the Concert, and if the friendship of Germany is to be preserved we should all proclaim that we desire to preserve the Concert; therefore the hon. Member for the Ecclesall Division of Sheffield when he complains of the Concert is really defeating his other object, which is the maintenance of the friendship of Germany. The hon. Member goes so far as to advise that the Concert should be broken up.
    *SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: Certainly not; what I object to is basing your policy on a supposed Concert which does not exist.
    SIR EDWARD GREY: I always envy the hon. Member for the Ecclesall Division, because ho is so perfectly clear that foreign policy is a comparatively simple matter. He has a perfectly distinct policy of his own, and he is always certain that, if adopted, it would lead to successful results. I wish the matter were so clear and simple, because it seems continually that the hon. Member's real policy is not a Concert but an alliance with certain Powers to be entered into, maintained, strengthened,
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    and enforced at the expense of some other Power. That is a policy which I think should only be adopted under extreme circumstances and never until a policy of general Concert has failed. I believe the Government desire to preserve the Concert, and I trust the other Powers are more agreed as to their aims in China now than in the past. The two hopeful things I see in the present situation are, first of all, that the result of this agitation and disturbance, after accounts have been settled with the Chinese Government, will be that something better may come to the top in China itself than has existed for some time past. If there are any signs of that—I do not think Her Majesty's Government should make themselves responsible for what any Government in China may do—I hope Her Majesty's Government will do what they can to encourage those signs and get a fair field for them. The second thing in which there is hope is that the lessons of the past two years may be taken to heart by the Powers interested, that the disintegration which people thought was proceeding apace may be arrested, and that all the Powers interested in China may be disposed to leave China to herself after adjusting accounts with her. Surely the lesson is obvious that there has been complete miscalculation with regard to the condition of China. Everyone must now be aware that, inert and helpless as China may be, she possesses a power of resistance and exasperation. If that be so, we may not be able to look for great improvement in China. If the various Powers interested are agreed, and will concentrate their minds on the agreement with each other—which means not merely that they should be agreed, but that they should trust each other—then they may concentrate their forces on the preservation of China, and developing peaceful and open trade in China. Trade is not to be promoted by territorial acquisition. The obstacle to trade has been the likin duties. If they were placed under an administration similar to that which deals with the maritime duties, the trade of China would be developed enormously. Internal reform is the direction in which the Powers should work, and I hope one result will be that peaceful and open trade may be promoted in this way, and that the idea of furthering political ambitions and exclusive possession may be laid aside entirely.
    *MR. BRODRICK: A considerable number of questions have been raised in this discussion beyond those to which the hon. Baronet who has just spoken referred. With regard to the Waima incident, I quite admit there has been unfortunate delay, and I quite agree that small matters ought not to long in settlement between Great Powers. The French themselves have a saying, "Les bons compter font les bons amis," which is not inapplicable in the present instance. But I am glad to tell the hon. Gentleman and others interested in seeing that British subjects who have suffered should not go without compensation, that we have, in the last few hours, received from the French Government the acceptance of immediate arbitration in respect of compensation for the Waima incident. The French Government admit that compensation is due, and the arbitration is simply to settle the amount. On the other hand, Her Majesty's Government have admitted, with regard to the sinking of the ship "Sergent Malamine," that compensation is due from them, and arbitration will take place simultaneously as to the amount of compensation due, the minimum being £5,000, and the maximum £8,000 which the French Government were willing to accept. Compensation for relatives of the coloured troops who were killed in the Waima incident has been provided for. With regard to the temporary necessities of those who lost their relations, the Government will find means of giving some small further assistance pending the result of the arbitration. With regard to Korea, the right hon. Gentleman tried to establish some difference of opinion between the treatment of the subject in the present year and the treatment by the representatives of the Foreign Office in the past. The position is an easy one to state. I said the other day that the promise in regard to the occupation of territory in Korea by Russia was not given to Her Majesty's Government, but to a third Power—namely, China. That is so. The promise was given before the war, at a time when China was suzerain in Korea. After the war that suzerainty passed away from China; and Korea has had the power to give concessions to other Powers. She exercised that power and gave a concession to Russia, but not exclusively to Russia, because in almost identical terms, a similar concession was made to Japan.
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    Japan was the Power chiefly concerned, and I think that, so far from the right hon. Gentleman calling on me to explain why Her Majesty's Government did not intervene, the onus lies on him to prove why we should intervene.
    *Sir CHARLES DILKE: I did not call upon the Government to intervene. I did not suggest that for a moment. I asked with the view of obtaining a reassuring statement. I did not call for any action at all, and I do not know of any circumstances where action is needed.
    *MR. BRODRICK: The suggestion is that we have given up something which we ought to have retained.
    *SIR CHARLES DILKE: The language used created the gravest suspicion.
    *MR. BRODRICK: The difference between us is as to what occurred. It was a perfectly natural concession on the part of Korea, quite within her power; no international rights were affected by it, and in such a case Her Majesty's Government hold that they had no reason to intervene. Then my hon. friend the Member for the Ecclesall Division has brought up the old question of Turkey, and he made two propositions. He laid down that, both in the matter of concessions for railways and in the questions arising out of contracts with the Turkish Government, Her Majesty's Government have shown some remissness. I confess that I think, on these questions, my hon. friend is on rather dangerous ground in invoking continually the influence of Her Majesty's Ambassador. I would point out to him that the question of the contractors to whom a Government should give its contracts is really a question for that Government. Has it ever occurred to a foreign Government to ask my right hon. friend the First Lord of the Admiralty, if he gives a contract for a certain number of guns to one foreign contractor, that he should give a contract for an equal number to a contractor of theirs? I think that beyond friendly representation it is impossible for Her Majesty's Government to go. In the same way with regard to railway concessions. It is quite true that a concession was given to Germany, and Turkey, by a self-denying ordinance, we are informed, though we have no official information, decided that

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    such railways as she may not make herself in Asia Minor she will give to Russia the preference of making. I am not going to argue the point; but, at all events, to represent, as my hon. friend did represent, this as a desertion of British trade and British manufactures by Her Majesty's Government——
    *Sir E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: My point was that these concessions were not given as fair bargains, but were wrung from the Turkish Government by strong and unjust political pressure on the part of other Powers. And that I am prepared to prove.
    *MR. BRODRICK: I have no information on that, nor have we any information as to the 100,000 men which Russia has, according to my hon. friend's statement, massed on the frontier of Turkey.
    *SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: Mobilised.
    *MR. BRODRICK: Nor is it our business to interfere in matters of that kind. We are not the custodians of any concession which may be given by foreign Powers all over the world, but we desire to do the best we can for our own interests.
    I should like to answer at greater length the points brought forward with regard to the situation in China. I may say at once that I fully appreciate the consideration shown by right hon. Gentlemen opposite in their desire not to embarrass the Government at a very critical time. I do not think that it would be possible for any man to speak from this bench on a question such as that now proceeding in China without falling into difficulties on one side or the other. We have at this moment before us the not unprecedented, but still humiliating, fact that some 200 Englishmen, mostly at their post in the discharge of duty, have been asking for several weeks for that relief which up to now we have not been able to afford them. We have also the knowledge that, although the forces now massed at Tientsin are very large, they belong to six different Powers; they are not provided, having been hurriedly sent there, with the whole equipment of a warlike expedition; and their advance must be impeded by the difficulties of the locality and the state of the roads and the
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    weather. But, so far as we can judge at the present moment, there has been no lack of co-operation on the part of the commanders and no avoidable delay. My hon. friend asked me several questions with regard to the intervention of the Japanese which I cannot pass over. My hon. friend said that if, early in the day, we had strongly invited the co-operation of the Japanese they would long ago have been in Peking, and that, at any rate within a month from the time when they were invited, they would have found their way to Peking. He complained that the invitation was not sent until 25th June. I will recapitulate the dates in a few words. Two or three days before 6th June we received a strong expression from Sir-Claude MacDonald as to the critical nature affairs were assuming in Peking. On 6th June Her Majesty's Government gave power to the Minister and to the Admiral to take any steps at their discretion with the forces at their command in order to relieve the position. On the 8th June Sir Claude MacDonald, by the wish of Her Majesty's Government, informed our representative at Tokio by telegraph of the position in order that he might bring it under the consideration of the Japanese Government. On the 13th of June Mr. Whitehead reported that the Japanese would be ready to send troops. On the 15th they were informed of what Her Majesty's Government were doing, and Mr.Whitehead, was asked to discover what steps Japan contemplated taking. Various reports came from them as to the troops they were prepared to send. On the 22nd Mr. Whitehead was instructed by telegraph to ask whether Japan did not intend to send further forces, it being then well known that Her Majesty's Government were already sending a large body, of troops from India. On the 25th, after an interview with the Japanese Minister, Lord Salisbury instructed our Ambassadors in Berlin and St. Petersburg to discover whether any objection would be raised, either by Germany or by Russia, to the despatch of 20,000 or 30,000 Japanese troops. They were able to report very shortly that no objection would be raised, but on 2nd July, before Japan mobilised troops and made up its mind to despatch them, Mr. Whitehead was told to ask whether Japan would not be prepared to take additional measures. One

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    4th July Mr. Whitehead was told to bring the extreme gravity of the situation to the notice of the Japanese Government, and to point out to them their responsibility, as the only Power able, owing to their geographical position, to deal with the situation. On the 5th Mr. Whitehead reported that the Japanese wished for an exchange of views on the part of the Powers concerned. As it was apparent that up to that moment—although it was four weeks after the Admiral had started on the expedition which proved abortive, owing to the superior forces he encountered—no considerable body of troops had been landed, and as it was felt that even then further inducement might enable the Japanese Government to go forward and relieve the situation, on 6th July the Government proffered financial assistance, with the special object of relieving the Legations and enabling the Japanese Government to take action. On the same day, a few hours afterwards, we received a telegram from the Japanese Government that they were now prepared to send 20,000 troops. I have ventured to trouble the Committee with this detailed statement in order that it may be made perfectly clear from first to last—not merely by example and the evidence which we had ourselves given, by calling up ships from every part of the world, by making matters smooth with foreign Powers with regard to any scruples which Japan might entertain, and even by proffering financial assistance—we have, I venture to think, shown that Her Majesty's Government have left no stone unturned—either by persuasion, by the use of our own power or the power of the purse of Great Britain—to assuage any jealousies which might exist, and to clear the way for action and to take care that every Power knew that our sole object was that a large number of troops should in the very shortest period of time be sent to Tientsin to meet the common enemy and an overwhelming danger. As the turn the debate has taken has been greatly influenced by what has taken place in the past, the, Committee will pardon me if I dwell for a time on the point that, while the Government have not undervalued the crisis in China, they may also claim that no action of theirs has precipitated that crisis. I think that in the adjustment of credit that is not the least important con-
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    sideration. It is very easy to be wise after the event. It is to some extent easy with the power of Great Britain at your back to provide for an emergency. But with respect to the other point I think great force attaches to what fell from the hon. Baronet opposite, when he said, and said truly, that four years ago, by the sudden collapse of China before the onslaught of Japan, a very poor estimate was formed of Chinese power. I am sure he did not mean, any more than I do, to cast any reflection upon the valour shown in that war by the Japanese soldiers, or upon their military organisation or skill; but as a matter of fact, which the House may have forgotten, the actual total loss in the whole of that war on the Japanese side only amounted to 3,300; and of those less than one-quarter died of wounds received in action. It is, therefore, obvious to those who know the vast extent of China and its power, that what the Japanese had to do with in that war was an inexperienced body of Chinese soldiers, and not the resistance of the Chinese nation. There has been, undoubtedly, on the part of the Powers, on the part of certain people in this country, and I must say also, on the part of a great many of those who advised us, and who have spent long periods in China, the belief that the Chinese Colossus was prostrate and therefore fit for dismemberment. China is a Colossus without nerves; but she is not, therefore, impotent. I remember a remark once made by Sir Robert Hart that China, the aged man, was aged but not sick. I think we have learned by the events of the last few weeks how greatly the defensive power of China has been miscalculated, and that has reacted upon this country and upon this House. During the last two or three years I can truly say there never has been a Chinese debate in which most of the speeches have not contained something like an impeachment of Her Majesty's Government for want of forwardness and for want of vigour and persistent dictation to the Chinese Government. In the matter of outrages there has not been one case in which we have not secured the punishment of the offenders and compensation for those who suffered; but I can hardly recall a single case in which we have not been attacked for not either forcing China to maintain a system of police which you might expect in a Western nation, or punishing the

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    absence of that system with Oriental severity. What has been the case with regard to outrages has also been the case as to pressure put on us to undertake administrative and executive work in China. The hon. Member for the Ecclesall Division has not only peculiar views with regard to our action in North China as against Russia, but he has also pointed out the desirability of training large bodies of Chinese troops, and subsidising them if necessary, in order to keep back Russia from Manchuria. That is not at all surprising to any one of us. During all the years the hon. Member has sat in this House I have never known him to put himself on a peace footing with regard to Russia. I do not think I ever heard him make a remark complimentary to Russia, except on one occasion. I remember a time, when the right hon. Gentleman opposite was Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs, that the hon. Member said something very handsome of the impartiality of a Russian newspaper in which he found an allusion to the imbecility of Mr. Gladstone's Government; and, if I recollect aright, the right hon. Gentleman opposite, in replying, said he fully agreed as to the impartiality of the Russian newspaper, because he found upon the very next page a reference to "les insanity de Sir Ashmead-Bartlett" To-night the hon. Member has stated that one of the follies we have been guilty of in the past is entertaining the belief that the Russians were strong enough in Manchuria to overrun China. That was one of the suggestions which the hon. Member himself made a few months ago.
    *Sir E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: No, no; the right hon. Gentleman is making a very serious misstatement. In the speech to which he refers I deprecated placing too much importance on the actual strength of Russia in the north of China at present. I said the military strength of Russia there was very much exaggerated; but I said, as I repeated to-night, that if you allow Russia to get control of the northern provinces of China and to organise them, in the course of a year or two she will have by conscription a very large military force there, which she could use against the rest of China.
    *MR. BRODRICK: If my hon. friend makes it a matter of credit I am quite
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    ready to withdraw that from amongst the numerous attacks he has made upon us, and to give him the fullest credit for his prescience. But there are other Members holding views, of which the hon. Member for Chester is an admirable exponent, almost as pressing upon the Government as those of the hon. Member for the Ecclesall Division. Pressure was brought to bear upon us only last year by Lord Charles Beresford to undertake the policing of the Yang-tsze valley and the garrisoning of the Yang-tsze by Chinese troops controlled by British officers, and the hon. Member for Chester urged us to undertake even the financial administration of that district.
    MR. YERBURGH: What I suggested was that officers acceptable to the Viceroys should be offered to them to assist them in carrying out those reforms.
    *MR. BRODRICK: The hon. Member's words go a great deal further than that I find on two occasions he urged us to undertake military and financial responsibilities. This view has been hold by a large number of Members of this House. It has been pressed upon her Majesty's Government by some newspapers, and it is the opinion of many of our fellow-countrymen all over the world that we have been remiss because we did not adopt that policy. Other suggestions of the same nature were pressed upon her Majesty's Government, but they all had the same drawbacks —they all assumed the consent of the Chinese Government or our power to disregard their consent. If you look at them by the light of the difficulties that have lately arisen in China they seem very little like practical or common-sense proposals. We have held from first to last that you cannot usurp the sovereign functions of the Chinese Government. For good or evil you have got to work through the Chinese Government; and often as we have been attacked for it, dilatory as their action may have been, we have limited our pressure to the point where we should have had to take the business out of the hands of the Chinese Government and undertake the administration ourselves. I am sure that hon. Members will understand that in that long array of negotiations about concessions which we laid before the House in a Blue-book last March there were

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    ample materials for these who read between the lines to see that the Chinese Government were fully aware of the inconsistent nature of the proposals made to them. At one moment they were told that they were effete, that their Government was corrupt, that they had not got the confidence of European investors, and that they should put themselves into the hands of the Powers. But they might well retort, as indeed they have been inclined to do, that the Governments of Europe were competing against each other in their desire to make them loans on their present security, that the speculators of all the countries of Europe were tumbling over each other in the scramble for concessions, and in the desire to advance money on railways, mines, telegraphs, and every other form of investment which, if all the arguments used as to the unfitness of the country and its need of reform were true, would be advanced on security of no more value than the paper upon which it was written. I agree with the Hon. Baronet in trusting that one solid result of the disturbances in China will be that other Governments, like our own Government, will refuse to be led astray by the idea that by putting on the pace we can really quicken the development of China. I think we must follow the principles of Sir Robert Hart, and by patient endeavour and quiet work, taking China more or less as she is, do the best we can towards her development, or we may find, as I think in the present crisis some of these who have urged the quickening of operations have realised, that premature births do not always give the longest lives. If I am brief in what I say in regard to policy to-night, I believe the House will pardon me. Let it not be supposed for one moment that because I have said, as a warning and as some vindication of the policy of the Government in the past, that caution and patience are wanted in the development of China, that we propose to depart from that leading position in all Chinese affairs which is due to Great Britain, both from our past traditions, from the fact that we have at this moment by far the largest trade in the country, and from the interest which we must have in the development of the Far East. But when we come to put what our policy may be into words, it must be for the moment chiefly of a negative character. Some points are
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    absolutely clear. In the first place, we are bound to press forward, and we will press forward by every means in our power in concert with our allies, the relief of the Legations in Peking. Whatever may be the result, whatever difficulties may intervene, it is absolutely clear that the inviolability of the position of Envoys must be impressed on Oriental peoples; and in the Far East, and upon all subject races, the supremacy of the Western world in this matter must be asserted. Secondly, comes the question of the Yang-tsze valley. Not much attention has been given to that subject to-night, because the debate has been short, but there is no question whatever that in every part of China at this moment there is a spirit of unrest and disquiet. It is our object, as far as we can, throughout the whole of the Yang-tsze sphere, to use Her Majesty's ships and Her Majesty's forces in the endeavour to quiet the present feelings and to assist the Viceroys in the task of preserving order. We have given assurances to the Viceroys in that particular. We have made it perfectly clear that our ships and our troops will be used with that object; but I would not Held out any expectation to the House that we propose to diffuse our troops or our ships over the enormous area of the Yang-tsze. We must limit our undertaking, which once given we shall pursue at all hazards. We are determined, whatever occurs, to defend Shanghai, and, in view of the strong strain which may be placed on our troops in the north, we have thought it wise to order a third brigade from India in order to have more troops available. Thon, the Hon. Gentleman opposite gave his view on the question of the partition of China. Her Majesty's Government are entirely in accord with his views with regard to the partition of China. We set our face resolutely against any partition, which we believe would be fraught with infinite danger to trade interests throughout China, and which it has been our traditional policy to prevent, and we have no reason whatever, judging from the negotiations which have taken place between ourselves and foreign Powers, to believe that we are at variance with any of the Powers of Europe in this respect. I think the Hon. Baronet very rightly said that it is not impossible that in the case of these private individuals who may have cherished an

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    opposite view recent events will have acted as a somewhat salutary lesson. Thon we also agree with the suggestion that whatever government is to be the prevailing government in China after this, whether the central seat of Government remains whore it is, whether the dynasty remains what it is, whether the Government which has been in name at Peking remains so in fact, or whether it be more widely diffused amongst these Viceroys who have now in many respects so independent a position, that government must be, in the first place, by Chinese for the Chinese. We are not prepared ourselves to undertake, nor are we prepared to assist other Powers in undertaking, to Indianise China. We are not prepared ourselves to undertake the responsibility of setting up European administration in these remote parts of China, which would entail upon us responsibilities that we are determined not to be party to. So much has been said to-night about the question of the organisation of the Chinese army that I may say at once that we do not contemplate the idea of organising the Chinese army under foreign officers in order to add to the strength of China as a sovereign Power. If it becomes necessary, as in the case of that regiment which we have ourselves organised at Wei-hai-wei, and which is doing such admirable service in the advance which is taking place—if it becomes necessary for police purposes to arrange for the officering of some native troops, that, perhaps, is a different matter. But to organise a great Chinese army under foreign officers seems to us, in the common interest of all the Powers, a dangerous experiment. Beyond that there is the question of an indemnity. There must be an indemnity. I welcome the Hon. Baronet's suggestion that the indemnity should be laid, if possible, on these who are chiefly responsible either for initiating or for not checking the present insurrection, but what form that indemnity should take is a question which we must relegate to future consideration. I think the Committee will pardon me if I do not go beyond what I have said. I think this is a time when the fewer words used the better. After all, if we do not fully state our views I do not think the house will believe that it is because we are blind to the broader aspects of the questions which nave been opened up, because we ignore them, or because we do not know our
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    own minds. But, Although I do not agree with my Hon. friend's strictures upon our attempt to work in concert with Europe, I do feel, and the Committee will feel, that there are limits, and known limits, to concerted action. It would be unwise for us, dealing with Powers that may have conflicting interests and must have varying conceptions of national duty in respect to China, to tie ourselves too closely to statements which may embarrass us hereafter at a time when, as we believe, it is better to go part of the way in concert with others than to attempt to go the whole way single-handed. But we do not shut our eyes to this fact—that great changes may result from the recent calamitous events. The Chinese government, or the want of Chinese government—the comedy, in some respects, of Chinese government—has almost created the greatest tragedy of the century, and no one can tell whether the result of what has occurred may not put back the clock of civilisation for forty or fifty years. What Her Majesty's Government feel is this— that, though we cannot see the actual stops before us, still we cannot help hoping that the Powers of Europe will discover some foundation on which a Chinese Government may be built up which will not utterly deny the benefit of civilised rule to a population amounting to one-third of the whole of the human race. If that should happen, thon a great crisis would have been made into a great opportunity. Her Majesty's Government cannot look with indifference at what the result may be. For the last century we have been building up a great trade in China which has been mutually advantageous to the Chinese and to ourselves. An Englishman has undertaken the responsibility of the Customs, which is almost the sole guarantee to a Chinaman of an incorrupt administration. We have in our own settlement of Shanghai and elsewhere given the example of the best forms of municipal government, and in our dealings with the Chinese Government we have scrupulously regarded good faith and treaty engagements. To desert all that Englishmen have built up during the last 100 years would be a position which Her Majesty's Government could never take up. Rather we would endeavour within the limits which I have laid down, and which I think have been accepted by the

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    Committee, to continue to use our best endeavours to preserve that civilised government, with extension of Western advantages, the diffusion of which has been the stimulus of British activity and the vindication of British rule throughout the world.
    *MR. JOSEPH WALTONcongratulated the right Hon. Gentleman on a most statesmanlike and satisfactory speech. He recognised the great importance of using every effort to maintain the Concert of the Powers in dealing with the serious situation which might have to be faced and dealt with in China to-day. This was no time to go over the history of the past few years, though the Committee must agree that many mistakes had been made. Had these mistakes been avoided the position in China at the present time would have been very different to what it was. The correspondence which was contained in the Papers which had just been laid upon the Table showed that, during the last few months at all events, the Government had pursued a wise and vigorous policy in upholding British interests. Everyone rejoiced to know, and everything seemed to point to the fact, that the policy not only of this country, but of the other nations interested in China, was to preserve China for the Chinese, and to maintain that empire open equally to the trade of all nations. That was a just and equitable policy, and had it been maintained and pursued a few years ago, since the conclusion of the Chino-Japanese war, the situation to-day would be very different. We could not, however, recall the past. The policy declared by Count von Bülow, which opposed the partition of China, which sought no advantages for any one nation over others, and which looked to set up in China a better government, was a policy to which the British Government might well give their heartiest support. A statement had also been made by M. Delcassé on somewhat similar lines, and some time ago the United States sought and obtained assurances from other nations interested in the trade of China as to the maintenance of the open door for the trade of all nations. She at the same time urged that efforts should be made to introduce administrative reform into the Chinese Empire.
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    She, therefore, was also in accord with the German policy, and it was to be regretted that the exigencies of the Presidential campaign should have somewhat paralysed her energies at the present juncture. Undoubtedly all classes in Japan took the same view, and if the Government could proceed upon these lines with these other nations, adopting and supporting the same policy, Russia could not Held aloof, and out of the anarchy which now existed in China might come great good not only to the Chinese nation itself, but to all these nations who traded with her. Something had been said with regard to an indemnity. He sincerely hoped the spirit of revenge would be left out of the question in our advance on Peking—than which he could conceive no greater duty on the part of the civilised nations—but that the slaughter of Chinese would be as small as possible consistently with the rescue of the Legations. It should be remembered that China had been greatly provoked, and that unjust aggressions had been made upon her by nations, with the result that concessions were forced from her which enabled them to place themselves in military occupation of portions of Chinese territory. That was a question which, however, could not now be entered into. Our endeavour must be to work in concert with other Powers at present—to put an end to the present state of anarchy, and set up a better government for the Chinese. He reminded the house that among the Chinese he had mot were enlightened and patriotic statesmen; and while, of course, these who were responsible for the attack of the Imperial troops on the Legations at Peking must at the conclusion of hostilities be removed from power, he believed there were many Honest and patriotic Chinese statesmen, such as the Viceroys of the great Yang-tsze regions, and of Nanking and Wuchang, who, with other enlightened Chinamen, might help to form a better government for the country. The question of an indemnity was a difficult one. It would be impossible for China to pay any large indemnity at the conclusion of hostilities in money, and he hoped the Government would seek, rather than a money payment, that arrangements might be come to whereby new commercial treaties should be made with the Chinese Government under which likin would either be abolished or brought under

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    administrative control of an Honest description, and that China should receive largely increased import duties under these treaties. By these means the income of China could easily be increased without serious detriment to the trade of nations dealing with her. Moreover, it should be demanded that the inland waterways of the interior of China should be opened freely to the trade of all nations, that great arteries of the Empire like the Yang-tsze-Kiang and West River should be put under the control of international conservancy beards, and a certain sum of money, derived from the increased revenues, employed in removing the obstructions to navigation and developing the trade on these rivers. With regard to railways, He thought whenever railways were built by foreign enterprise, the Chinese Government ought to have power, under certain terms and conditions, to take over the lines when they were in a position to do so, but that until they could repay principal and interest, the railways should remain, under the control of these who constructed them. If such a policy could be carried out with the free consent of the best elements of China—and the reform party in China was by no means inconsiderable—lie believed it would be productive of great benefit. There was one other point He wished to refer to arising out of some remarks made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer on a previous occasion. The correspondence showed that Lord Salisbury very promptly and very properly, when approached by the Japanese Government, undertook the financial responsibility for Japan's sending troops to the relief of the Legations at Peking. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said a few evenings previously that no financial responsibility now attached to this country in regard to Japanese expenditure, for the reason that they did not act with sufficient promptitude. The consent of Lord Salisbury to undertake the financial responsibility was only communicated to Japan on the 6th of July, and the Japanese Government immediately prepared an army of 20,000 men to go to China. In his opinion, if the matter was not clear, it would be wise that notice should be given to the Japanese Government that the British Government was prepared to adhere to their promise to bear the financial responsibility of this expedition to relieve
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    the Legations in Peking. It was to be hoped that the rising would not spread to the rest of that vast Empire. He recognised the efforts which were now being made by the Government to protect the lives and property of British subjects in China, but he regretted that what he had urged so long ago had not received more prompt attention. He ventured to press, upon the attention of the Government the advisability, and, indeed, the necessity, of at once undertaking the construction; of suitable gunboats to patrol the upper Yang-tsze, and protect our interests. He would not add more because of the serious character of the present situation. If its seriousness were fully realised by the Government he could only hope that at the end of the recess when the house met again they would be able to congratulate the Government on having in the intervening months dealt vigorously, firmly, and wisely with one of the gravest situations that the Government in the whole of its history had had to face.
    *MR. BILLrose to make an appeal to the right Iron. Gentleman that the temporary assistance which it was admitted might fairly be granted, to the sufferers of the Waima incident might be immediate and substantial. It was perfectly true that a small grant of twe hundred pounds was given, last year to the three ladies whose cases were looked into, but that amount must have come to an end, and having regard to the fact that it was seven years since the deplorable occurrence took place, these ladies were now in great straits. He was glad to hear that the black soldiers were to share equally with their white comrades, and he hoped that their families would meet with some recompense. In these faraway regions, whore black and white soldiers were fighting side by side, and whore occurrences like the Waima incident unhappily took place, he hoped they would always be treated alike.
    MR. GIBSON BEWLESsaid that he had heard with great satisfaction the policy declared by the right lion. Gentleman the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. His satisfaction had been the greater because this was the first declaration of a definite character which had been given to the House. Doubtful statements had been made, but

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    he had never ceased to believe that the Government would come back to the belief which they entertained in 1898, when they accepted the motion of the Hon. Member for the Ecclesall Division, seconded by himself, affirming the necessity in British interests for maintaining the integrity of China. He was rather struck by one phrase used by his right Hon. friend, to which, perhaps, he attached too much literal importance—that one of the main objects of the Government was that the supremacy of the Western world should be established in China.
    *MR. BRODRICKsaid he was thon referring solely to the power of the Western world to relieve their Legations in China.
    MR. GIBSON BEWLESwas extremely glad to have elicited that explanation, for He confessed the words seemed to him to bear a signification which might be injurious. They might have been understood as implying that it was intended that the Western Powers should exert a paramount and permanent influence over the Chinese. The right Hon. Gentleman had said, and said truly, that the defensive power of China had been greatly underrated—by no one, he was sorry to say, more than by one of the right Hon. Gentleman's predecessors on the Government Bench, who wrote a book to prove that China was a foredoomed and decaying Power. He thought the veracity of the Chinese Ambassador was also greatly underrated, together with that of the Chinese Ministers, who had assorted day after day that the Ambassadors in Peking were alive. These assertions had been received by the press with insulting comments, and even sensational accounts were published of a massacre which did not take place. He had looked in vain to sec some sort of an apology made to the men whose veracity had been impugned. We were, no doubt, committed to common action with other Powers with regard to the relief of the Legations, but he for one would not be prepared to assume the responsibility of acting with them throughout, after the way in which some nations had announced their intentions. He would much deplore anything like a close association in permanent policy with Powers whose conduct he believed had materially led up to what had taken place, Although it
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    might be necessary to join in common action to effect the rescue of the Ministers in Peking. What he wanted to see was that we did not pledge ourselves to anything further than was required to effect that rescue. If we were once tempted to sot up a permanent concert of the Powers, it might have a very prejudicial effect upon the interests of this country. He rejoiced that the Waima incident had been so happily terminated, but He regretted that no attempt had been made to settle the difference between this country and Prance with regard to the Newfoundland difficulty. He believed with a little pressure on the part of the Government and a little reasoning on the part of the British Ambassador in Paris an arrangement could be come to which would make it possible for the subjects of both countries to live in harmony in Newfoundland. Here again he had noticed with grief the assertions made by the English press. He had seen it assorted that France was preparing to make war upon this country, when everyone knew that no one in high position in France had any such idea; that so far from having any intention to make war upon us, they were apprehensive of our making war upon them, which was a notion which never entered our heads. It was a very dangerous frame of mind to get into. Mr. Kruger said that he only made war upon us because he was afraid that we were going to make war upon him. Such a calamity as a war between England and France owing to the apprehension of both countries was a thing which he Hoped would never occur. France was our most necessary friend and our nearest neighbour, and a good understanding between France and ourselves was necessary not only in the interests of the two countries, but also for the permanent security of peace in Europe. He looked, therefore, with the greatest grief on the attempts which had been made recently in the press to suggest the idea that France had the intention to make war upon us, and he would, so far as it lay in his power, reassure the French in that respect. He believed he expressed the feeling of the country when he said that no such idea had entered our heads.
    MR. MOONdesired to associate himself with the Hon.

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    Member for Leek in his appeal to the financial authorities to give rapid, effectual, and substantial help to these who suffered so long ago in the Waima disaster. He also desired to associate himself with the Hon. Member for the Barnsley Division of Yorkshire in the congratulations which he offered to the right lion. Gentleman the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. Everyone must sympathise with the Government in the difficulties in which they were involved, and which they had to meet and deal with under the present trying circumstances; not the least of which was the fact that there was a dual Government at present in Northern China. When one Government came to the top he Hoped it would be the reformed Government. This was the first time during the last five or six years that the Under Secretary had shown any sympathy with the reform party in China, and he congratulated him upon that fact. Although the reform party were in no way altogether favourable to Europeans, and there were many who showed strong anti-foreign predilections, if that party was established in China it would greatly benefit Western Powers, with China adequately administered on modern methods. There was one point which these Papers did not throw much light on—namely, the causes of the outbreak and the crisis which had been precipitated. It seemed to him that our representatives at Peking had not had these means of information which they might have had. They did not foresee the coup détat which took place, Although these who followed the affairs of China in the public prints had read statements in an important weekly paper, well known to all Europeans in China, containing most striking predictions. One especially came out as far back as February and another in May, which was quoted in a letter by ex-Consul Jamieson, showing that information was available which might have gone far if acted on in checking or mitigating the outbreak which had caused so much trouble. It seemed to him that we needed an improved Intelligence Department at Peking. He had said that before, but since he last had the honour of speaking on the point no less a personage than the Prime Minister had referred to the neces-
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    sity for a judicious distribution of secret service money. Lord Salisbury said—
    "Information is a mere matter of money and nothing else. If you want much information you must give much money. If you give little money you will have little information."
    China was a part of the world whore valuable information could be obtained at a cheaper rate than in any other part of the globe. He Hoped that in another year the secret service money might be largely increased. There was only one other point to which he wished to draw attention, and that was the position of our Commercial Attaché, Mr. Consul Jamieson. He had felt that in his intercourse with the Viceroys he was considerably prejudiced and handicapped by the fact that his rank was inferior to theirs. He (the Hon. Member) suggested that our Commercial Attaché should have the rank of a Secretary of Legation.
    *SIR CHAELES DILKEsaid that the declaration made by the Government as to the Waima incident, though tardy, was as satisfactory as could be Hoped for in the circumstances, and he asked leave to withdraw his Amendment.
    Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
    Original Question again proposed.
    MR. BECKETT (Yorkshire, N.R., Whitby)said he wished to associate himself with the congratulations which had been expressed on the speech of his right Hon. friend the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs. It was some satisfaction that the policy the Government proposed to adopt met with universal approval. At the same time there were one or two remarks suggested by the speech which he should like to make. The right Hon. Gentleman said that the two qualities required in dealing with China were caution and patience. He would venture to suggest to the Government that they ought to exhibit two other qualities which were equally needed—firmness and perseverance. They knew that the Government had from the first been in favour of maintaining the integrity of China. The means by which they Hoped to maintain that integrity had so far been very effective in resisting encroachments, and in view of what had happened in the past he Hoped there would be a continuance of that policy. At the same time it was

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    impossible to disguise from ourselves the fact that efforts might be made to interfere with the integrity of China which would require the greatest finesse and skill on our part to avert. His lion, friend did not propose that the British Government should undertake the financial administration of the Yang-tsze valley. His contention was that it would be of the greatest advantage not only to the Chinese Government, but to the traders and merchants who carried on business in that region, if some skilled and trained official could be appointed to fill a position similar to that occupied by Sir Robert Hart. If we were to raise an indemnity in China it seemed to him that something of that kind would have to be clone, because at present the feeling was that an indemnity could only be raised by a loan, and the interest on that loan would have to be guaranteed in some way. It would have to be taken out of the likin duties, and therefore he thought his right Hon. friend would see that the suggestion of the Hon. Member for Chester was not very wide of the mark. With reference to the action we were now taking in China, he thought the British Government, and perhaps Governments in general, were inclined to rely too much on Japan. Having been in that country himself, and taken some pains to investigate its powers and resources, he confessed he was not so greatly impressed by them as other people had been, and he did not think, in any case, that the European Concert should allow Japan to take the lead in this crisis. It would not be a wise or dignified course, and we might be sure that Japan wanted something to herself. Japan would not pull the chestnuts out of the fire for nothing. What he would say was— work with Japan, but do not rely too much on her. He agreed with his Hon. friend that it was better to go half-way with the Concert of Europe than the whole way ourselves. He thought England should do all she could at present to work in a friendly way with the Concert of Europe, especially when the feeling of Europe was one of hostility to this country. That might help to mitigate the hostility which was felt on certain parts of the Continent. He wished to associate himself with the Hon. Member for King's Lynn as to the necessity of cultivating friendship with France. Although comparisons were always odious, and he did
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    not wish to make comparisons, at the same time he must say that, if we looked at the feeling exhibited by the journals of the country, it was impossible to maintain that France was more unfriendly than Germany. He thought that, on the whole, the indications were that France was more inclined to be friendly than Germany. It should be remembered that France had good reason to be sore with us at present. We should not try to tread upon her corns in any way. It would be extremely wise to endeavour at this moment to show a friendly feeling towards France, because it was undoubtedly the fact—he had it from an intimate friend of one of the French Ministers—that an impression was being spread abroad that it was the intention of England to declare war upon France. It would be wise statesmanship to do all we could to remove that impression from the people and the Government of France, and certainly we should avoid using any expressions which would wound the susceptibilities of France. A wise, conciliatory, and friendly policy with France and Russia would lie the most advantageous for this country to pursue.
    MR. BRYN ROBERTS (Carnarvonshire, Eifion)said that although he listened with satisfaction to the right Hon. Gentleman's speech, he confessed that it had not removed any feeling of apprehension from his mind, for he had not entertained any apprehension whatever that the Government were likely to embark on any policy with regard to China which would not be safe, easy, and profitable. He was satisfied that, Although we declined to arbitrate in the dispute with the Transvaal, if at the time the war was commenced in South Africa we had known that it would cost us £70,000,000——
    *THE CHAIRMAN: That has no; reference to the Vote now before the Committee.
    MR. BRYN ROBERTSsaid he was not going to discuss the war, but he was I going to show that the principle of arbitration should always be adopted when it was an advantageous thing to do so. It was obvious that the moment it was discovered that war with China would not be safe and easy, and that it would be expensive, there was not the slightest

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    chance of this country embarking upon it. He did not think any Blue-book was necessary to ascertain the causes of the war. He would ask Hon. Members what their feelings would be if they were in the position the Chinese had been in. Supposing England had been described as effete and played out and to be safely attacked, supposing we had a weak Government, giving way to unreasonable demands, supposing there were hundreds and thousands of adventurers in the country from the Continent demanding with threats of war concessions, if the Government was unable or made no attempt to restrain them, he ventured to say that there would be a "Boxer" movement in England to clear away the interlopers who were endeavouring to seize the country. The disastrous state of affairs in China at present was owing to the Imperialistic jingo policy which was formerly countenanced and now abandoned by the Government. It was often said that it would never do to introduce into politics the principles of morality which governed private individuals. That doctrine had always been denied by the Manchester school to which he belonged. A close examination of the history of this country showed that whenever we had departed in our international relations from the principles of morality and honesty which ought to regulate the dealings between man and man, it had always brought disaster upon us. If we had acted on these principles we would have been able to dictate in the form of advice any decision China ought to take, and we might have relied upon China following our advice, but we had discredited ourselves by associating ourselves with a gang of robbers who believed that China would be too weak to resist.
    MR. DAVID MACIVERasked the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs whether he could give the House any information as to the negotiations with foreign countries with reference to the abolition of sugar bounties. This was a most important question to these who used to live by the refining of sugar and the various industries connected with it. The question was in very much the same position now as twenty-six years ago, when he first had the honour to be elected a Member of that House. The
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    first person who gave him any information on the subject was his right hon. friend the President of the Beard of Trade, at a time when he occupied a position of greater freedom and less responsibility.
    *The CHAIRMAN: Order, order! The hon. Member is not entitled to go into the whole question of sugar bounties. He must apply his remarks in such a way as to show that the Foreign Office has done something it ought not to have done, or that it has left undone something, it ought to have done.
    MR. DAVID MACIVERsaid lie wished to show that the Foreign Office had omitted to do that which it ought to have done, and he wanted to know if it intended to do that which ought to have been done. He thought it would be seen that his remarks were germane to his argument. The sugar refineries had decreased from——
    *The CHAIRMAN: The hon. Member must proceed to show malfeasance on the part of the Government in order to bring his remarks into order.
    MR. DAVID MACIVERexpressed the hope that his right hon. friend would be able to show that the Foreign Office was doing its very best to prevent these bounties, which were ruining, and had ruined, sugar refineries in England. This was a serious matter to his constituency. He wished the Under Secretary to show that He was doing what he could to remedy this state of things in future, so that the sugar industries might be brought back to something like their former prosperity. He did not think he was unreasonable in protesting against the bounty system, and in asking the Under Secretary to tell the Committee what the real intention of the Government was with the view of remedying a state of things so that a valuable trade would be enabled to lift its head and prosper as in the days of old.
    *MR. BRODBICK: The Committee is probably aware that we are carrying on negotiations through diplomatic channels. If there is no definite progress which can be at present noted on the subject of sugar bounties, I know, indirectly, that negotiation and discussion are going on between the Governments of Germany, France, Austria, and, I think, Russia, on

    505
    the subject. My hon. friend will appreciate that all changes of fiscal policy on the part of any Government are to some extent of slow growth, hut I can assure my hon. friend that the matter has not been lost sight of. So far as the Government are concerned, we will continue to press through diplomatic channels in the direction desired.
    *SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT: I might perhaps take a little exception to the great ingratitude displayed towards myself personally by the right Hon. Gentleman the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs in the course of his speech, seeing that I have provided Her Majesty's Government with a policy towards China. However, I am satisfied with the fact that the light Hon. Gentleman has accepted that policy to the full now. His declaration with regard to the maintenance of the independence and the integrity of China was as satisfactory as any of us could hope for, and was in thorough accordance with the resolution the House passed in March, 1898, which I had the honour of proposing. What I want to ask my right hon. friend now is regarding his declaration as to reform in China. I very much regret that in the course of the remarks I made I did not dwell sufficiently on the question of reform. That really, as the hon. Member for Chester says, is the basis of the future of China, and it ought to be one of the main objects of our policy to improve and reform China. The hon. Baronet the Member for Berwick, the late Under Secretary of State, made a statement which I thought was very unfortunate, He tried to bind the Government and the House to a formal declaration against using influence in support of any particular government in China. It is perfectly clear that if China is to be reformed—and China must be reformed —the civilised Governments of the world must exert their influence in support of a party or of ministers who are in favour of reform. I would not bind the Government to any particular form of support, but I do hope the statement of the Hon. Baronet is not going to be the policy of Her Majesty's Government. I hope a part of that policy —which we now clearly know to be that of the independence and integrity of China—will lie reform; and the only way in which reform can be carried out is by Her Majesty's
    506
    Government in some form or other lending their strong moral support to that party in China which wishes to sec reform and good government there established. I think the House has good reason to congratulate itself upon the result of to-night's debate. Very little exception, if any, can be taken to the statement of the Government, and I rejoice that two very serious difficulties in the way of a satisfactory settlement in China have been removed by the statements which have come from both Front Benches. It is perfectly clear that the hon. Baronet at last sees that the British policy cannot be based upon the imaginary Concert of Europe. It is also perfectly clear from the statement of my right hon. friend that the Government intend to have a policy and to carry out that policy whether or not they got the formal support of the Powers. So long as that policy is clearly defined and courageously upheld, they can afford to disregard any opposition they may encounter in Europe or elsewhere, because they will have the support of the strongest Powers with them.
    MR. CHARLES MCARTHUE: I wish to associate myself with the hope that has been expressed that the Government will do something definite to bring the negotiations arising out of the Brussels Conference to a successful issue. One reason why these negotiations were not successful at the time was that the British Government sent a representative to the Conference without any definite instructions. There is no use bringing forward a grievance unless you are prepared to suggest a remedy, and the British representative was sent without any definite instructions to propose a remedy for the great evil which is being done to the sugar industry. We are glad to hear that negotiations are still proceeding, but that is not altogether satisfactory. We have heard that for a long time, but nothing; has been done, and meanwhile the industry is being brought to the verge of extinction. Distinguished members of Her Majesty's Government have from time to time stated their belief that the bounty system is altogether indefensible, and that something should be done to put a stop to it. What we ask is that they should have the

    507
    this question to remain in the air no longer, but really do something to put an end to the iniquitous system which is destroying the trade against which it is directed.
    MR. T. P. O'CONNOR: I simply wish to enter my protest against language such as that of the Hon. Member for the Ecclesall Division of Sheffield. At this moment, when the lives of not only men but also women and children are hanging in the balance, and when the rescue of these lives is absolutely dependent on perfect accord between the different Powers of Europe who have troops out there, I think the hon. Gentleman was adopting a not very discreet course in discussing the future relations between the different Powers engaged in this work. I will say nothing further on the question of China except to congratulate the right Hon. Gentleman the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs upon the admirable and eloquent speech he has delivered to-night, a speech which I am sure met with the approval of every Member of the House. I have risen mainly for the purpose of saying a word on the question alluded to by the hon. Member for King's Lynn—namely, the relations between this country and France. Everybody must be delighted with the announcement that the outstanding difficulty with regard to the Waima incident has been at last settled, and that one source of friction has been removed. The Hon. Member for King's Lynn had the courage to protest against the language of certain journals, and, may I add, certain statesmen, with regard to the relations between this country and France. I spent three weeks in France recently, and I made it my business to speak to some prominent French politicians and to study very seriously, so far as I could in that short period, the tone and opinion in that country with regard to this. I can say with perfect sincerity and accuracy that all the stories you find in some of the journals in this country with regard to the warlike feeling in France towards us are absolute inventions. As a matter of fact the feeling is all the other way. So far as I could see, they have got it into their heads that this country is burning with a desire to pick a quarrel with their nation in order to destroy their fleet and cripple their resources. I believe
    508
    that is an entire delusion on the part of the people of France, but I am bound to say there has been language used with regard to that nation which it was very difficult for a chivalrous and proud people to hear without some feeling of dissatisfaction and alarm. I am quite convinced that responsible men and women who control their voice and temper in both countries are determined, so far as they possibly can, to prevent any such terrible and horrible event taking place as a misunderstanding between two great nations who have many interests in common, and who have no differences which wise and judicious administration on both sides cannot satisfactorily arrange.
    *MR. KESWICKsaid that recent events in China must inevitably have a very great effect on the history of that country. They opened a new book, which should have written upon its pages a different record from the horrors and disappointments of the past. But the nature of the record would depend almost entirely upon the Western Powers, with whom rested the character future intercourse would assume. Reform was essential, indeed was the only means by which a recurrence of the troubles: we deplore could be prevented. Whoever was sent out to represent this country in Peking should be strong and vigorous, determined not to partition the country or to interfere with the rights of China, but to make known, and to insist upon China knowing, what were the proper principles upon which the future prosperity, peace, and good government of that Empire should be based. No one desired to see China weakened or her integrity m any way broken, but all desired to see peace and reform. Unless there was reform, however, disintegration was inevitable. Nothing but reform and a new policy, and the sweeping away of past misgovernment could bring the country into a state which would enable it to maintain its independence and to save itself from the grasping ambitions of certain Powers.
    MR. SWIFT MACNEILLsaid he only rose to make a casual observation upon a matter which very properly arose upon the Vote for the salary of the Foreign Secretary. What He wished to criticise was the unconstitutional practice of uniting the two offices of Prime

    509
    Minister and Foreign Secretary. When one and the same individual held both these offices it was a distinct weakness. The Foreign Minister was necessarily more detached from his colleagues than any other Minister, and he had more separate and individual responsibility. The prerogatives of the Crown had become by constitutional practice vested in the Ministers, and the power of declaring peace and war was vested in the Foreign Minister. Constitutionally this House never needed to be consulted at all, although eventually the Government must come to the House of Commons for supplies. Therefore, the Foreign Minister had a position of less responsibility to the House of Commons than other Ministers in the Cabinet, and in accordance with the constitutional practice he did not need to consult his colleagues as other Ministers did. The Prime Minister had to act with the Foreign Minister, and he exercised a certain control over the Foreign Minister, but of course that control ceased when the two offices were combined. Until Lord Salisbury came into power in 1886 there never had been a union of the two offices, and on no fewer than three occasions had the Foreign Minister on becoming Prime Minister left the Foreign Office. Lord Palmerston, Earl Russell, and later still Lord Rosebery, all vacated the office of Foreign Secretary upon taking that of Prime Minister. The Foreign Secretary had not the support of the Prime Minister when the two offices were combined, and he had to act largely upon his own responsibility. The Foreign Office had so many details, was so complicated, and required so much energy, that it would pass the wit of man for the same individual to occupy himself as he ought to do in his own Department and at the same time to exercise over the other Departments the controlling influence of the Prime Minister. Mr. Gladstone no fewer than three times protested against this arrangement, which was unknown until Lord Salisbury's time, and which was an anomaly absolutely associated with him alone. When the two offices were combined, other members of the Cabinet could take liberties with the Foreign Office, and no later than December last the Colonial Secretary absolutely interfered with Lord Salisbury as Foreign Minister. Of course, it was too late in the day to quarrel with Lord Salisbury's retention of these offices, but it was a
    510
    practice instituted by him and unknown before his time. He could easily prove that this combination of the two offices had led to the South African War, and he thought this was a precedent which should be guarded against in the future. The relations between this country and the Orange Free State and the Transvaal were formerly directly under the control of the Foreign Office, and he believed, they would have remained under that control if Lord Salisbury had not been over weighted with the cares of the Foreign Office. If these relations had remained with the Foreign Secretary he believed there never would have been a Transvaal War. If Lord Salisbury had been Prime Minister alone he would have exercised, more control than he had been able to do while holding at the same time the office of Foreign Secretary. On these grounds He protested against the union of the two offices as highly unconstitutional. It had been publicly stated by Lord. Salisbury in the House of Lords that the right Hon. Gentleman the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs was not permitted to answer supplementary questions. He thought it was wrong that the right hon. Gentleman should not be permitted. Much of the benefit every afternoon arose from the supplementary questions. There was no doubt whatever of the ability of the right hon. Gentleman to answer them. He thought Lord Salisbury had not dealt with perfect fairness with the House of Commons in asking the Under Secretary to forfeit his Ministerial position. He Hoped that in future the offices of Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary would be held separately.
    Question put, and agreed to.
    2. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £124,483, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Local Government Beard."
    *MR. TALBOTsaid he wished to take that opportunity of calling attention to a matter connected, with the administration of the Local Government Beard. He had no complaint to make against the right hon. Gentleman the President of the Local.

    511
    Government Beard for the way he received former representations from him on the same subject, but he could not conceal from himself that the law relating to the provision of religious services in work houses had not been carried out. The law required that in every union there should be a chaplain, and that Church of England services should be provided for the inmates in some building under the control of the guardians. The erection of a separate chapel was not necessarily required. The inmates of work houses were in some measure in a state of confinement. They were in many cases persons who were aged, infirm, or bedridden, and it was impossible for them to go anywhere outside the walls of these houses. What he complained of was that the ministrations of religion in work houses depended not upon the provision which the law made, but upon the provision which a temporary majority of the several beards of guardians might make. Whore the provisions of the law were not carried out beards of guardians, instead of making provision for the ordinary services of the Church of England being regularly conducted according to the law, made some provision by which ministers of religion of various denominations took turns of providing religious instruction. That appeared to him to be very unsatisfactory. What must be the hopeless state of confusion into which persons might get if they found themselves on one occasion instructed according to the formularies of the Church of England, and next week according to the formularies, or perhaps he should say according; to the tenets, of one body or another of Nonconformists. He was not now speaking in the interest of the Church of England, to which he belonged, but in the interest of religion and the equitable administration of the law. He did not ask for any special favour. He did not ask anything for these of his own conviction and belief which he should not be ready to give others. What he did ask was that the provisions of the law should be carried out. He had a right to ask why this particular branch of the law was infringed with the connivance and assistance of the Local Government Beard itself. He thought a still stronger case was made out when they came to the question of work house schools whore religious instruction was given to the children by
    512
    the representative of one denomination one day and by the representative of another another day. If this system was unsatisfactory in the case of adults it was still more unsatisfactory in the case of children. What could be more fatal to the enforcement of any religious instruction? He would infinitely prefer children to be taught the tenets of a religion which he did not approve than that they should lie taught in this happy-go-lucky way. When these children went out into the world, it was highly important that they should have some form of religious conviction and worship to which they were attached; but if during their most impressionable years they were allowed to form the opinion that one set of tenets was as good as another, there was no chance, when they left the schools in which they were brought up, of their receiving that definite conviction which was the best protection against the temptations to which in after life they were exposed.
    MR. STUARTsaid he Hoped that when the right Hon. Gentleman was replying he would also reply on a particular point which He desired to raise, and in which he believed the right lion. Gentleman and the Local Government Beard had a certain amount of sympathy. He did not desire anything like a general discussion, and did not intend to make anything like an exhaustive speech. The subject to which he wished to allude was the education of our pauper children. He had brought the subject before the House on many occasions. On one occasion he found that the Education Beard was entirely with him, and that the Local Government Beard was entirely against him; in the present Parliament He found that the Local Government Beard was entirely of his view, that the education of pauper children ought to be placed under the Education Department; but when he turned to the Education Department he found that the opinion of that body had changed, and that it was no longer in favour of the reform. He said, perhaps rather too hastily, that the opinion of the Department had changed, but as far as he understood there was one man and one man only who stood between them and a much needed reform, and that was the Vice-President of the Council, who was unwilling to carry it out. It was

    513
    said that they could not transfer the education of pauper children from the Local Government Beard to the Education Department without for some reason or other transferring also the supervision of the life and position of these children. He believed lie could claim the sympathy of the right Hon. Gentleman, and He wished to know what he intended to do in the matter. He believed also that the Local Government Board were sympathetic and that they shared the view that the transfer could be accomplished without any serious departmental difficulty. He saw on the Treasury Bench the Parliamentary Secretary to the Local Government Beard, to whose administrative ability he desired to pay a tribute of admiration. He believed that the Hon. Gentleman, with the aid of the officials of the Local Government Board, could carry out the change. But it was not carried out because they were told that the whole supervision of the pauper children of the country ought to be taken out of the hands of the guardians and put into the hands of some new central body. But even if that were possible and desirable, why should they wait for the accomplishment of a reform which was certainly distant, when they were all agreed it was a real and valuable reform —all except the Vice-President of the Council. The President of the Local Government Board knew that his views were entertained not only on that side of the House, but on the other. He appealed to the right Hon. Member for the University of Oxford to signify that he agreed with them.
    *MR. TALBET: Hear, hear!
    MR. STUARTsaid he felt sure that if the President of the Local Government Beard expressed his view to the Beard he so ably represented a reasonable solution of the difficulty would be found. The pauper children of the country were educated under an ineffective system. That was not the fault of the Local Government Beard, because they were not the proper body to educate these children, and he was sure that a very real and important reform might be carried a step forward that evening if the right Hon. Gentleman would express his views on it.
    MR. H. C. RICHARDSsaid he thoroughly agreed with the views
    514
    that had been expressed by the Hon. Member for Hoxton with regard to the education of pauper children. As a London Member he had seen something of the surroundings of these pauper schools, and he was perfectly certain that the hon. Member had expressed a view which was in unison with the view entertained by many hon. Members. What he wished particularly to bring Home to the President of the Local Government Board was the grievance which Hon. Members felt against him for not enforcing the law in different parts of the country with regard to the appointment of chaplains. He had steadily perused the accounts of the work houses in which chaplains were not appointed, and whore the religious wants of the inmates were attended to by voluntary chaplains, and a more unsatisfactory condition of affairs could hardly be imagined. Something had been said about the attitude of the Irish Members, but everyone knew that if such attempts were made on their Catholic fellow-citizens as were made on the members of the Church of England they should have the adjournment moved and the matter called attention to by the Irish Catholic Members of the House. One of the Hon. Members for Belfast expressed his surprise when he learned the state of affairs in England, and said that if such a thing happened in Ireland, and if the guardians refused to elect a Protestant chaplain or a Roman Catholic priest to attend to the spiritual wants of the majority or the minority in a work house, a sealed order would be sent down from Dublin compelling them to do it. They who complained of the grievance would like to see the same measure of justice dealt out to their unhappy island as was given to Ireland, which they were told was a downtrodden country. They had complained year after year of infractions of the law. Last year and the year before his noble friend spoke of the deliberate way in which the law was broken in the Field Lane Industrial Schools. He wished to know what happened to the unfortunate bedridden people in the infirmaries who are practically left without any spiritual ministrations. They were left to the gentlemen who came once a week or once a month to see their own people and thon asked, to use a vulgar expression, if there was anyone else worth picking up. The Church of England might or might not

    515
    be a majority of the population—he was not going to argue that—but even if it were a minority it was at all events a minority which deserved consideration, and he ventured to say that the people who deserved most consideration were these poor people in the infirmaries who were unable to attend church on Sundays or days of obligation. The President of the Local Government Beard really owed his position to members of the Church of England, and it was certainly a poor return for that Church to know that its poorer members were left to such a haphazard arrangement. With regard to chapels he knew Hew difficult it was to provide, especially in largo work houses, accommodation for the duo solemnities of religion. He knew one London work house whore some friends of his were giving an entertainment, and they were shown into the chancel to be used as a dressing-room. He would not mention the name, because the paupers might be deprived of their entertainment next winter, but it showed the spirit of economy on the one hand and sectarianism on the other which prevailed.
    *MR. STRACHEYsaid that he desired to ask the right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Local Government Beard whether he had not received a communication from the Yeovil Rural District Council, on behalf of 120 other rural district councils, in the preceding November urging him to take action in regard to further regulations in respect of light locomotives on highways. There had been considerable discussion upon this subject of late, and suggestions had been made to further regulate the speed of motors by reducing it in difficult parts of the roads and at difficult turnings. All motors went at a high rate of speed, and the question was whether they should not have a distinguishing number put upon them so that they could be identified. They went through country districts at a high rate of speed, and when they did damage they might not be identified afterwards. He was informed that though the right Hon. Gentleman had had the matter brought under his notice some nine months previously, no reply had been received from him to the representations of these 120 rural district councils.
    LORD HUGH CECILsupported the right Hon. Member for Oxford University in his protest against the want of action on the part of the Local Government Board with regard to the appointment of chaplains to workhouses. This matter was becoming a great scandal. The law upon the subject was not denied, and it was not fitting that the scandal should go on year after year and no proper effort be made to effect a remedy. If the objection to enforcing the law was due to the fear of wounding the susceptibilities of the Nonconformists, and the Nonconformists had the slightest apprehension that there would be any proselytism, means should be taken to safeguard them. What he contended was that when a law was made provisional for these who were of the Church of England the authorities should not shrink from giving the people an opportunity of worshipping according; to their religious convictions. There could be no defence of the present system. The truth of the matter was that where religion was concerned public departments cared very little about it. If people accepted religion with the same conviction that they accepted the principle of sanitation, for instance, the best provision would long since have been made for religious ministration to the poor in workhouses, and this scandal would not have arisen. There was a no more, ominous thing in the mental attitude of the people of this country than the decay of religious belief, which was at the bottom of the whole difficulty. If it were thought to be an important matter there would be no difficulty in providing forit. As it was it was put a side. But he was not prepared to acquiesce in the indifference which affected the Local Government Board. He should continue to urge the necessity for maintaining that proper provision should be made, and he should continue to do his best to force his views upon the attention of the Government. The interests of the Nonconformist bodies were no less acutely at stake than the interests of the Church of England. They were threatened by the same movement, which, was an irreligious movement; indeed, they would be the first to fall under a decay of religious belief, and he therefore appealed to them to co-operate with the members of the Church of England in defence of the common principles of religion against a common enemy.
    MR. CHANNING: desired to put a few points before the right hon. Gentleman with regard to a subject in which his constituency was largely interested, the right hon. Gentleman's vaccination policy. He submitted that in the Order made in October two years ago there was a revolution in the policy of the Local Government Board which was quite contrary to the understanding arrived at in Parliament. At the time the Vaccination Act was passed in 1898 a great deal of discussion took place as to prosecutions, and a great many arguments were advanced on both sides. The Order which came out in October, 1898, gave the Local Government Board absolute discretion to decide for themselves what cases should be prosecuted and what cases should not. The right hon. Gentleman was not justified in the action he took. Under the old Order and practice of thirty years there was a right in the board of guardians to control their own officer, but the Order of 1898 had revolutionised that, and given the control to the Local Government Board. He thought ho had some reason to complain that the Return he asked for regarding the expenditure caused by the new law with regard to vaccination had been denied.
    THE PRESIDENT OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (MR. CHAPLIN,)said in the short time loft at his disposal he would endeavour, as far as possible, to deal with the questions which had been raised by the hon. Gentlemen who had preceded him. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Oxford University and the noble Lord had complained that the law with regard to the appointment of chaplains to the workhouses of the country was not carried out, and that it mainly failed because of the inactivity of the Local Government Board. The statement of the right hon. Gentleman was
    not strictly accurate, because the appointment of chaplains for workhouses was required not by law, but by regulation made by the Local Government Board. As the regulation was made by the Department, it could be changed or revoked by the Department. In like manner the performance of services on certain specified days in workhouses was required by regulation to be observed. No one could sympathise more than he did with the desire that people of all classes and persuasions should hare the advantage of religious worship, but what was the proposal of his hon. friends? In the vast majority of unions in the country chaplains were appointed. There were some in which chaplains were not appointed; and he was now pressed to insist upon the appointment of chaplains for every union. There were many unions in which the inmates were almost entirely of the Nonconformist persuasion. In such cases was he to compel the guardians to appoint a Church of England chaplain? It would be lamentable if the dying were not able to receive the consolation of religious ministration, but at the present time every inmate of a workhouse had a right to the religious ministration he required and, so far as he knew, no workhouse authorities had ever refused to provide it. He was in entire sympathy with the hon. Member for Hoxton that the inspection of poor-law children should be undertaken by the Education Department——
    It being ten of the clock, the Chairman, in pursuance of the Order of the House of the 15th of February last, proceeded to put the Questions necessary to dispose of the outstanding Votes in the Committee of Supply.
    Question put.
    The Committee divided:—Ayes, 208; Noes, 80. (Division List No. 262.)

    AYES.

    Aird, John

    Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds

    Rill, Charles

    Allsopp, Hon. George

    Barnes, Frederic Gorell

    Blundell, Colonel Henry

    Anson, Sir William Reynell

    Bartley, George C. T.

    Brassey, Albert

    Arrol, Sir William

    Beach, Rt. Hn. SirM. H. (Bristol

    Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John

    Asher, Alexander

    Beach, Rt. Hn.W.W.B.(Hants

    Brown, Alexander H.

    Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis

    Beckett, Ernest William

    Bullard, Sir Harry

    Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John

    Bentinck, Lord Henry C.

    Batcher, John George

    Bailey, James (Walworth)

    Bethell, Commander

    Carlile, William Walter

    Balcarres, Lord

    Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.

    Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

    Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (Manch'r)

    Bigwood, James

    Cavendish, V.C.W.(Derbysh.)

    Cayzer, Sir Charles William

    Haslett, Sir James Horner

    Nicol, Donald Ninian

    Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East)

    Heath, James

    O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens

    Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.

    Hill, Arthur (Down, West)

    Paulton, James Mellor

    Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r)

    Hoare, Ed. Brodie (Hampstead

    Perm, John

    Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry

    Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)

    Phillpotts, Captain Arthur

    Charrington, Spencer

    Hornby, Sir William Henry

    Pierpoint, Robert

    Clare, Octavius Leigh

    Howard, Joseph

    Pollock, Hairy Frederick

    Coghill, Douglas Harry

    Hudson, George Bickersteth

    Purvis, Robert

    Cohen, Benjamin Louis

    Hutchinson, Capt. G. W. Grice-

    Pym, C. Guy

    Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse

    Hutton, John (Yorks, N.R.)

    Rasch, Major Frederic Carne

    Colomb, Sir John C. Ready

    Jackson, Rt. Hon. William L.

    Remnant, James Farquharson

    Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth)

    Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick

    Rentoul, James Alexander

    Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref'd)

    Jenkins, Sir John Jones

    Richardson, Sir T. (Hartlep'l)

    Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)

    Jessel, Capt. Herbt. Merton

    Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W.

    Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W.

    Kenyon, James

    Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Charles T.

    Cotton-Jodrell, Col. Edw. T.D.

    Kimber, Henry

    Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye

    Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge

    Lafone, Alfred

    Royds, Clement Molyneux

    Cripps, Charles Alfred

    Laurie, Lieut.-General

    Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)

    Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton)

    Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn

    Sandon, Viscount

    Curzon, Viscount

    Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverp'l)

    Sandys, Lieut.-Col. T. Myles

    Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham)

    Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.)

    Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard

    Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

    Lea, Sir Thos. (Londonderry)

    Seely, Charles Hilton

    Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph

    Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington)

    Seton-Karr, Henry

    Donkin, Richard Sim

    Leigh-Bennett, Henry Carrie

    Sharpe, William Edward T.

    Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-

    Llewellyn, Evan H. (Somerset

    Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew)

    Doxford, Sir William Theodore

    Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swan.)

    Sidebottom, William (Derbysh

    Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir William H.

    Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.

    Simeon, Sir Barrington

    Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton

    Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham)

    Skewes-Cox, Thomas

    Faber, George Denison

    Lonsdale, John Brownlee

    Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch)

    Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward

    Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller

    Smith, Jas. Parker (Lanarks.)

    Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith)

    Lowe, Francis William

    Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

    Fergusson, RtHn. Sir J.(Manc'r

    Lowles, John

    Spencer, Ernest

    Field, Admiral (Eastbourne)

    Loyd, Archie Kirkman

    Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset)

    Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne

    Lucas-Shad well, William

    Stephens, Henry Charles

    Firbank, Joseph Thomas

    Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred

    Stock, James Henry

    Fisher, William Hayes

    Macartney, W. G. Ellison

    Strauss, Arthur

    FitzGerald, Sir Robt. Penrose-

    Macdona, John Camming

    Strutt, Hon. Chas. Hedley

    Fitz Wygram, General Sir F.

    MacIver, David (Liverpool)

    Start, Hon. Humphry Napier

    Flannery, Sir Fortescue

    Maclure, Sir John William

    Thornton, Percy M.

    Flower, Ernest

    M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)

    Tollemache, Henry James

    Foster, Colonel (Lancaster)

    M'Killop, James

    Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray

    Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk)

    Malcolm, Ian

    Tritton, Charles Ernest

    Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry

    Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J.

    Verney, Hon. Richard G.

    Fry, Lewis

    Martin, Richard Biddulph

    Welby, Lt, Col. A. C. E.(Tauntn

    Galloway, William Johnson

    Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F.

    Whiteley, H. (Ashton-under-L.

    Garfit, William

    Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire)

    Williams, J. Powell- (Birm.)

    Gedge, Sydney

    Melville, Beresford Valentine

    Willox, Sir John Archibald

    Gibbons, J. Lloyd

    Middlemore, J. Throgmorton

    Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.

    Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (CityLond.

    Milbank, Sir Powlett C. J.

    Wilson-Todd, Wm. H.(Yorks.)

    Giles, Charles Tyrrell

    Monckton, Edward Philip

    Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R.(Bath

    Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk.

    Monk, Charles James

    Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

    Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John E.

    Moon, Edward Robert Pacy

    Wrightson, Thomas

    Goschen, George J. (Sussex)

    Moore, William (Antrim, N.)

    Wylie, Alexander

    Goschen, Rt. Hn G J (St George's)

    More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire)

    Wyndham, George

    Goulding, Edward Alfred

    Morrell, George Herbert

    Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy

    Greville, Hon. Ronald

    Morrison, James A. (Wilts., S)

    Young, Commander (Berks, E.

    Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

    Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford

    Gull, Sir Cameron

    Murray, Rt. Hn A. Graham (Bute

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

    Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Lord Geo.

    Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)

    Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.

    Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Rbt. Wm.

    Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)

    Hardy, Laurence

    Newdigate, Francis Alexander

    NOES.

    Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.

    Burt, Thomas

    Donelan, Captain A.

    Abraham, William (Rhondda)

    Buxton, Sydney Charles

    Doogan, P. C.

    Ashton, Thomas Gair

    Caldwell, James

    Douglas, Chas. M. (Lanark)

    Atherley-Jones, L.

    Cameron, Robert (Durham)

    Duckworth, James

    Billson, Alfred

    Cawley, Frederick

    Edwards, Owen Morgan

    Blake, Edward

    Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)

    Emmott, Alfred

    Bolton, Thomas Dolling

    Colville, John

    Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley

    Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur

    Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal)

    Griffith, Ellis J.

    Brigg, John

    Dalziel, James Henry

    Harwood, George

    Broadhurst, Henry

    Dewar, Arthur

    Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale-

    520

    521

    Hazell, Walter

    Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr)

    Strachey, Edward

    Hogan, James Francis

    O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

    Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)

    Holland, William Henry

    O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

    Talbot, Rt Hn J G (OxfordUniv.

    Horniman, Frederick John

    Palmer, Sir Chas. M. (Durham)

    Tanner, Charles Kearns

    Jacoby, James Alfred

    Pickard, Benjamin

    Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr

    Joicey, Sir James

    Pickersgill, Edward Hare

    Ure, Alexander

    Jones, D. Brynmor (Swansea)

    Price, Robert John

    Wallace, Robert

    Jones, William Carnarvonsh.

    Provand, Andrew Dryburgh

    Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

    Labouchere, Henry

    Richards, Henry Charles

    Whiteley, George (Stockport)

    Lewis, John Herbert

    Rickett, J. Compton

    Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)

    MacDonnell, Dr M A (Queen'sC.

    Roberts, John Bryu (Eifion)

    Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough)

    MacNeill, John Gordon Swift

    Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

    Woodhouse, Sir J T (Huddersfld)

    M'Leod, John

    Runciman, Walter

    Woods, Samuel

    Maddison, Fred

    Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)

    Yoxall, James Henry

    Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand

    Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh)

    Molloy, Bernard Charles

    Soames, Arthur Wellesley

    TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

    Montagu, Sir S. (Whitechapel)

    Souttar, Robinson

    Mr. Channing and Mr. Steadman.

    Morgan, J. Lloyd(Carmarthen

    Spicer, Albert

    Class I.
    3, Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £22,000, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment
    during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, for the Houses of Parliament Buildings."
    The Committee divided:—Ayes, 262; Noes, 34. (Division List No. 263.)

    AYES.

    Aird, John

    Charrington, Spencer

    Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry

    Allsopp, Hon. George

    Clare, Octavius Leigh

    Fry, Lewis

    Anson, Sir William Reynell

    Coghill, Douglas Harry

    Galloway, William Johnson

    Arrol, Sir William

    Cohen, Benjamin Louis

    Garfit, William

    Asher, Alexander

    Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse

    Gedge, Sydney

    Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis

    Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready

    Gibbons, J. Lloyd

    Ashton, Thomas Gair

    Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole

    Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H.(City of Lond

    Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John

    Colville, John

    Giles, Charles Tyrrell

    Bailey, James (Walworth)

    Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth)

    Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk.

    Balcarres, Lord

    Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford)

    Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Eldon

    Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r

    Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)

    Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J. (St. Geo's

    Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W(Leeds

    Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W.

    Goschen, George J. (Sussex)

    Barnes, Frederic Gorell

    Cotton-Jodrell, Col. Edw. T. D.

    Goulding, Edward Alfred

    Bartley, George C. T.

    Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge

    Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley

    Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol

    Cripps, Charles Alfred

    Green, W. D. (Wednesbury)

    Beach, Rt. Hn. W. W. B. (Hants.

    Cross, H. Shepherd (Bolton)

    Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury)

    Beckett, Ernest William

    Curzon, Viscount

    Greville, Hon. Ronald

    Bentinck, Lord Henry C.

    Davies, Sir Horatio D(Chatham

    Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

    Bethell, Commander

    Dewar, Arthur

    Gull, Sir Cameron

    Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.

    Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

    Halsey, Thomas Frederick

    Bigwood, James

    Disraeli, Conings by Ralph

    Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Lord G.

    Bill, Charles

    Donkin, Richard Sim

    Hanbury, Rt. Hon. RobertWm.

    Blundell, Colonel Henry

    Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-

    Hardy, Laurence

    Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur

    Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)

    Harwood, George

    Brassey, Albert

    Doxford, Sir Wm. Theodore

    Haslett, Sir James Horner

    Broadhurst, Henry

    Duckworth, James

    Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale-

    Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John

    Dyke, lit. Hon. Sir Wm. Hart

    Hazell, Walter

    Brown, Alexander H.

    Edwards, Owen Morgan

    Heath, James

    Billiard, Sir Harry

    Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton

    Hill, Arthur (Down, West)

    Burt, Thomas

    Emmott, Alfred

    Hoare, E. Brodie (Hampstead)

    Butcher, John George

    Faber, George Denison

    Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)

    Buxton, Sydney Charles

    Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw.

    Holland, William Henry

    Caldwell, James

    Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith)

    Hornby, Sir William Henry

    Carlile, William Walter

    Fergusson, Rt Hn Sir J.(Manch).

    Horniman, Frederick John

    Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

    Field, Admiral (Eastbourne)

    Houston, R. P.

    Cavendish, Y. C. W. (Derbysh.

    Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne

    Howard, Joseph

    Cawley, Frederick

    Firbank, Joseph Thomas

    Hudson, George Bickersteth

    Cayzer, Sir Charles William

    Fisher, William Hayes

    Hutchinson, Capt. G. W. Grice-

    Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East)

    Fitz Gerald, Sir Robert Penrose

    Hutton, John (Yorks, N. R.)

    Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)

    Fitz Wygram, General Sir F.

    Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm.Lawies

    Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm.

    Flannery, Sir Fortescue

    Jacoby, James Alfred

    Chamberlain, J Austen (Worc'r

    Flower, Ernest

    Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick

    Channing, Francis Allston

    Foster, Colonel (Lancaster

    Jenkins, Sir John Jones

    Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry

    Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk)

    Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton

    Jones, David Brynmor (Swans'a

    More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire

    Simeon, Sir Barrington

    Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)

    Morrell, George Herbert

    Skewes-Cox, Thomas

    Kenyon, James

    Morrison, Jas. A. (Wilts., S.)

    Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch)

    Kimber, Henry

    Morton, Arthur H. A (Deptford)

    Smith, James Parker (Lanarks.

    Lafone, Alfred

    Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport)

    Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

    Laurie, Lieut. -General

    Murray, Rt Hn A. Graham(Bute

    Souttar, Robinson

    Lawrence, Sir E Durning- (Corn

    Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)

    Spencer, Ernest

    Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)

    Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)

    Spicer, Albert

    Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.)

    Newdigate, Francis Alexand'r

    Stanley, Hon Arthur(Ormskirk

    Lea, Sir Thomas(Londonderry)

    Nicol, Donald Ninian

    Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset)

    Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington)

    O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens

    Stephens, Henry Charles

    Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie

    Palmer, Sir Charles M. (Durham

    Stock, James Henry

    Lewis, John Herbert

    Paulton, James Mellor

    Strachey, Edward

    Llewellyn, E. H. (Somerset)

    Peel, Hn. Wm Robert Wellesley

    Strauss, Arthur

    Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swnsea

    Penn, John

    Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley

    Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.

    Phillpotts, Captain Arthur

    Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier

    Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham)

    Pickard, Benjamin

    Thornton, Percy M.

    Lonsdale, John Brownlee

    Pickersgill, Edward Hare

    Tollemache, Henry James

    Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller

    Pierpoint, Robert

    Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray

    Lowe, Francis William

    Pilkington, R. (Lancs, Newton)

    Tritton, Charles Ernest

    Lowles, John

    Pollock, Harry Frederick

    Ure, Alexander

    Loyd, Archie Kirkman

    Purvis, Robert

    Verney, Hn. Richard Greville

    Lucas-Shadwell, William

    Pym, C. Guy

    Wallace, Robert

    Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred

    Rasch, Major Frederic Carne

    Welby, Lt-Col. A. C. E. (Tauntn

    Macartney, W. G. Ellison

    Remnant, James Farquharson

    Whiteley, George (Stockport)

    Macdona, John Cumming

    Rentoul, James Alexander

    Whiteley, H. (Ashton-under-L.

    MacIver, David (Liverpool)

    Richards, Henry Charles

    Williams, J. Powell- (Birm.)

    Maclure, Sir John William

    Richardson, Sir T.(Hartlepool)

    Willox, Sir John Archibald

    M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)

    Rickett, J. Compton

    Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)

    M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)

    Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W.

    Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.)

    M'Killop, James

    Ritchie, Rt. Hon Chas Thomson

    Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks.)

    Maddison, Fred.

    Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

    Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath)

    Malcolm, Ian

    Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye

    Woodhouse, Sir J T (Huddersf'd

    Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J.

    Royds, Clement Molyneux

    Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart-

    Martin, Richard Biddulph

    Runciman, Walter

    Wrightson, Sir Thomas

    Massey-Mainwaring, Hon W. F

    Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)

    Wylie, Alexander

    Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire)

    Sandon, Viscount

    Wyndham, George

    Melville, Beresford Valentine

    Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles

    Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy

    Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand

    Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard

    Young, Commander(Berks, E.)

    Middlemore, Jn. Throgmorton

    Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh)

    Yoxall, James Henry

    Milbank, Sir Powlett C. John

    Seely, Charles Hilton

    Monckton, Edward Philip

    Seton-Karr, Henry

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

    Monk, Charles James

    Sharpe, William Edward T.

    Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.

    Moon, Edward Robert Pacy

    Shaw-Stewart, M. H.(Renfrew)

    Moore, William (Antrim, N.)

    Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbyshire)

    NOES.

    Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.)

    Hogan, James Francis

    Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

    Abraham, William (Rhondda)

    Joicey, Sir James

    Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)

    Atherley-Jones, L.

    Labouchere, Henry

    Soames, Arthur Wellesley

    Billson, Alfred

    MacDonnell, Dr. M. A (Qn.'sCo.

    Steadman, William Charles

    Blake, Edward

    M'Leod, John

    Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)

    Bolton, Thomas Dolling

    Molloy, Bernard Charles

    Thomas, David Alfd. (Merthyr)

    Brigg, John

    Montagu, Sir S.(Whitechapel)

    Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

    Cameron, Bobert (Durham)

    Morgan, J. L. (Carmarthen)

    Wilson, J. H.(Middlesbrough)

    Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal)

    Morgan W. Pritchard(Merthyr

    Woods, Samuel

    Dalziel, James Henry

    O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

    Donelan, Captain A.

    O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

    TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

    Doogan, P. C.

    Price, Robert John

    Mr. MacNeill and Dr. Tanner.

    Griffith, Ellis J.

    Provand, Andrew Dryburgh

    *The CHAIRMAN: I have to acquaint the Committee that during the course of the division that has just been taken the hon. Member for Mid Cork, having been named as a teller, came up to me, and after using some insulting expressions, said he considered it was a great impertinence on my part to have named him as a teller. In these circumstances I
    524
    consider his conduct was grossly disorderly within the meaning of Standing Order XXVII. I have to request the hon. Member to immediately withdraw from the House for the remainder of this sitting.
    DR. TANNER: Of course I go, Mr. Lowther, but I simply say that you told

    525
    me first upon my merely asking you a question that it was an impertinence on my part to ask it. I ask only for justice in this place. Prime Minister's minion that you are. I defy you all. As an Irishman I leave the House with a great deal more pleasure than I came into it. I tell it to your teeth. Yon are always the same.
    *THE CHAIRMAN: The Serjeant-at-Arms will remove the hon. Member.
    DR. TANNERthen withdrew.
    4. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £35,000, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, for Expenditure in respect of Miscellaneous Legal Buildings."
    The Committee divided:—Ayes, 251, Noes, 46. (Division List No. 264.)

    AYES.

    Aird, John

    Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph

    Hudson, George Bickersteth

    Allsopp, Hon. George

    Donkin, Richard Sim

    Hughes, Colonel Edwin

    Anson, Sir William Reynell

    Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-

    Hutchinson, Capt. G. W. Grice-

    Arrol, Sir William

    Doxford, Sir William Theodore

    Hutton, John (Yorks, N.R.)

    Asher, Alexander

    Duckworth, James

    Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies

    Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis

    Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. H.

    Jacoby, James Alfred

    Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John

    Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton

    Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick

    Bailey, James (Walworth)

    Emmott, Alfred

    Jenkins, Sir John Jones

    Balcarres, Lord

    Faber, George Denison

    Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton

    Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r

    Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw.

    Joicey, Sir James

    Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W (Leeds

    Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith

    Jones, David Brynmor (Sw'ns'a

    Barnes, Frederic Gorell

    Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Man'r

    Kenyon, James

    Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H (Bristol)

    Field, Admiral (Eastbourne)

    Keswick, William

    Beach, Rt. Hon. W. W B (Hants.

    Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne

    Kimber, Henry

    Beckett, Ernest William

    Firbank, Joseph Thomas

    Lafone, Alfred

    Bentinck, Lord Henry C.

    Fisher, William Hayes

    Laurie, Lieut.-General

    Bethell, Commander

    Fitz Gerald, Sir Robert Penrose-

    Lawrence Sir E. Durning-(Corn)

    Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.

    Fitz Wygram, General Sir F.

    Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)

    Bigwood, James

    Flannery, Sir Fortescue

    Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.)

    Bill, Charles

    Flower, Ernest

    Lea, Sir T. (Londonderry)

    Blundell, Colonel Henry

    Foster, Colonel (Lancaster)

    Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington

    Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur

    Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk)

    Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie

    Brassey, Albert

    Fowler, lit. Hon. Sir Henry

    Llewellyn, E. H. (Somerset)

    Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John

    Fry, Lewis

    Llewelyn, Sir D.- (Swansea)

    Brown, Alexander H.

    Galloway, Wm. Johnson

    Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.

    Ballard, Sir Harry

    Gartit, William

    Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham

    Burt, Thomas

    Gedge, Sydney

    Lonsdale, John Brownlee

    Butcher, John George

    Gibbons, J. Llovd

    Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller

    Buxton, Sydney Charles

    Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H.(City of Lond

    Lowe, Francis William

    Carlile, William Walter

    Giles, Charles Tyrrell

    Lowles, John

    Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

    Godson, Sir Augustus Fred.

    Loyd, Archie Kirkman

    Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbys.

    Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon

    Lucas-Shadwell, William

    Cayzer, Sir Charles William

    Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J. (St. Geo.'s

    Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred

    Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East)

    Goschen, George J. (Sussex)

    Macartney, W. G. Ellison

    Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)

    Goulding, Edward Alfred

    Macdona, John Cumming

    Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J (Birm.

    Green, W. D. (Wednesbury)

    MacIver, David (Liverpool)

    Chamberlain, J Austen (Worc'r

    Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury)

    Maclure, Sir John William

    Charming, Francis Allston

    Greville, Hon. Ronald

    M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool

    Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry

    Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

    M'Arthur, William (Cornwall

    Charrington, Spencer

    Gull, Sir Cameron

    M'Kenna, Reginald

    Clare, Octavius Leigh

    Guthrie, Walter Murray

    M'Killop, James

    Coghill, Douglas Harry

    Halsey, Thomas Frederick

    Malcolm, Ian

    Cohen, Benjamin Louis

    Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Lord Geo.

    Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J.

    Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse

    Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Rbt. Wm.

    Martin, Richard Biddulph

    Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready

    Hardy, Laurence

    Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F,

    Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole

    Harwood, George

    Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire)

    Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth)

    Haslett, Sir James Horner

    Melville, Beresford Valentine

    Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref'd)

    Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale-

    Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand

    Corbett, A. Cameron(Glasgow)

    Hazell, Walter

    Middlemore, J. Throgmorton

    Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W.

    Heath, James

    Milbank, Sir Powlett Chas. J.

    Cotton-Jodrell, Col. E. T. D.

    Hill, Arthur (Down, West)

    Monckton, Edward Philip

    Cox, Irwin Edwd. Bainbridge

    Hoare, E. Brodie (Hampstead)

    Monk, Charles James

    Cripps, Charles Alfred

    Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)

    Moon, Edward Robert Pacy

    Gross, H. Shepherd (Bolton)

    Holland, William Henry

    Moore, William (Antrim, N.)

    Curzon, Viscount

    Hornby, Sir William Henry

    More, Robert J. (Shropshire)

    Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham)

    Houston, R. P.

    Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)

    Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

    Howard, Joseph

    Morrell, George Herbert

    Morrison, James A. (Wilts. S.)

    Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. Thomson

    Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier

    Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford)

    Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

    Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

    Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute)

    Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye

    Talbot, Rt. Hn. JG(Oxf'd Univ.

    Murray, Charles J. (Coventry

    Round, James

    Thornton, Percy M.

    Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)

    Royds, Clement Molyneux

    Tollemache, Henry James

    Newdigate, Francis Alexander

    Runviman, Walter

    Tomlinson, Wm. Edw.Murray

    Nicol, Donald Ninian

    Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)

    Tritton, Charles Ernest

    O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens

    Sandon, Viscount

    Verney, Hon. Richard Greville

    Palmer, Sir Charles M.(Durham

    Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles

    Wallace, Robert

    Paulton, James Mellor

    Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard

    Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

    Peel, Hn. Wm Robert Wellesley

    Seely, Charles Hilton

    Welby, Lt-Col. A. C. E (Taunton

    Penn, John

    Seton-Karr, Henry

    Whiteley, H. (Ashton-under-L.

    Philpotts, Captain Arthur

    Sharpe, William Edward T.

    Williams, J. Powell- (Birm.)

    Pickersgill, Edward Hare

    Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew)

    Willox, Sir John Archibald

    Pierpoint, Robert

    Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbyshire)

    Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.

    Pilkington, R. (Lancs., Newton

    Simeon, Sir Barrington

    Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.)

    Pollock, Harry Frederick

    Skewes-Cox, Thomas

    Wodehouse, Rt Hn E. R. (Bath)

    Pretyman, Ernest George

    Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch)

    Woodhouse, Sir J T (Huddersf'd

    Provand, Andrew Dryburgh

    Smith, James P. (Lanarks.)

    Wortley, Rt. Hn. C.B. Stuart-

    Purvis, Robert

    Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

    Wrightson, Sir Thomas

    Pym, C. Guy

    Spencer, Ernest

    Wylie, Alexander

    Rasch, Major Frederic Carne

    Spicer, Albert

    Wyndham, George

    Remnant, James Farquharson

    Stanley, Hon Arthur (Ormskirk

    Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy

    Rentoul, James Alexander

    Stanley, Edward J. (Somerset)

    Young, Commander(Berks, E.)

    Richards, Henry Charles

    Stephens, Henry Charles

    Richardson, Sir Thos. (Hartlep'l

    Stock, James Henry

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

    Rickett, J. Compton

    Strauss, Arthur

    Sir William Walrond and. Mr. Anstruther.

    Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W.

    Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley

    NOES.

    Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.)

    Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)

    Price, Robert John

    Abraham, William (Rhondda)

    Edwards, Owen Morgan

    Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

    Asbton, Thomas Gair

    Gourley, Sir Edward Temperley

    Soames, Arthur Wellesley

    Atherley-Jones, L.

    Griffith, Ellis J.

    Souttar, Robinson

    Billson, Alfred

    Hogan, James Francis

    Steadman, William Charles

    Blake, Edward

    Horniman, Frederick John

    Strachey, Edward

    Bolton, Thomas Dolling

    Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)

    Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)

    Brigg, John

    Lewis, John Herbert

    Thomas, David A. (Merthyr)

    Broadhurst, Henry

    MacDonnell, Dr. M. A. (Qn's Co

    Ure, Alexander

    Caldwell, James

    MacNeill, John Gordon Swift

    Whiteley, George (Stockport)

    Cameron, Robert (Durham)

    M'Leod, John

    Wilson, Henry J.(York, W. R.)

    Cawley, Frederick

    Maddison, Fred.

    Woods, Samuel

    Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal)

    Montagu, Sir S. (Whitechapel)

    Yoxall, James Henry

    Dalziel, James Henry

    Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr)

    Dewar, Arthur

    O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

    TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

    Donelan, Captain A.

    O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

    Mr. Jonathan Samuel and Mr. Havelock Wilson.

    Doogan, P. C.

    Pickard, Benjamin

    5. £16,000, to complete the sum Art and Science Buildings, Great Britain.
    6. £18,000, to complete the sum Peterhead Harbour.
    7. £226,403, to complete the sum Rates on Government Property.
    8. £132,685, to complete the sum Public Works and Buildings, Ireland.
    9. £35,487, to complete the sum Railways, Ireland.

    Clash II.
    10. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £4,297, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Offices of the House of Lords."
    The Committee divided:—Ayes, 218; Noes, 82. (Division List No. 265.)

    AYES.

    Aird, John

    Bailey, James (Walworth)

    Beach, Rt. Hn. W. W. B. (Hants.

    Allsopp, Hon. George

    Balcarres, Lord

    Beckett, Ernest William

    Anson, Sir William Reynell

    Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manc'r

    Bentinck, Lord Henry C.

    Arrol, Sir William

    Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds

    Bethell, Commander

    Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis

    Barnes, Frederic Gorell

    Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.

    Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John

    Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol

    Bigwood, James

    Bill, Charles

    Gall, Sir Cameron

    Nicol, Donald Ninian

    Blundell, Colonel Henry

    Guthrie, Walter Murray

    O'Neill, Hon. Robt. Torrens

    Brassey, Albert

    Halsey, Thomas Frederick

    Peel, Hon. Wm. Robt Wellesley

    Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John

    Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Lord G.

    Penn, John

    Brown, Alexander H.

    Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm.

    Phillpotts, Captain Arthur

    Bullard, Sir Harry

    Hardy, Laurence

    Pierpoint, Robert

    Butcher, John George

    Haslett, Sir James Horner

    Pilkington, R.(Lancs, Newton)

    Carlile, William Walter

    Heath, James

    Pollock, Harry Frederick

    Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

    Hill, Arthur (Down, West)

    Pretyman, Ernest George

    Cavendish, V.C. W. (Derbysh.

    Hoare, E. Brodie (Hampstead)

    Purvis, Robert

    Cayzer, Sir Charles William

    Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)

    Pym, C. Guy

    Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East)

    Hornby, Sir William Henry

    Remnant, James Farquharson

    Cecil, Lord H. (Greenwich)

    Houston, R. P.

    Rentoul, James Alexander

    Chamberlain, Rt. Hon J. (Birm.

    Howard, Joseph

    Richards, Henry Charles

    Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r)

    Hudson, George Bickersteth

    Richardson, Sir Thos. (Hartlep'l

    Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry

    Hughes, Colonel Edwin

    Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir Matthew W

    Charrington, Spencer

    Hutchinson, Capt. G. W. Grice-

    Ritchie, tit. Hon Chas Thomson

    Chare, Octavius Leigh

    Hutton, John (Yorks, N.R.)

    Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye

    Coghill, Douglas Harry

    Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies

    Round, James

    Cohen, Benjamin Louis

    Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick

    Royds, Clement Molyneux

    Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse

    Jenkins, Sir John Jones

    Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)

    Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready

    Jessel, Capt. Herbert Morton

    Sandon, Viscount

    Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole

    Kenyon, James

    Sandys, Lieut-Col. Thos.Myles

    Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth)

    Keswick, William

    Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard

    Cooke, C.W. Radcliffe (Heref'd)

    Kimber Henry

    Seely, Charles Hilton

    Corbett, A.Cameron (Glasgow)

    Lafone, Alfred

    Seton-Karr, Henry

    Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W.

    Laurie, Lieut.-General

    Sharpe, William Edward T.

    Cotton-Jodrell, Col.Edw.T.D.

    Lawrence, Sir E. Durntng-(Corn

    Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew)

    Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge

    Lawrence, Win. F. (Liverpool)

    Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbyshire)

    Cripps, Charles Alfred

    Lawson, John Giant (Yorks.)

    Simeon, Sir Harrington

    Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton)

    Lea, Sir Thomas (Londonderry

    Sinclair, Louis (Romford)

    Curzon, Viscount

    Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie

    Skewes-Cox, Thomas

    Davies, Sir Horatio D(Chatham

    Llewellyn, E. H. (Somerset)

    Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch)

    Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph

    Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'ns'a

    Smith, James P. (Lanarks.)

    Donkin, Richard Sim

    Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.

    Spencer, Ernest

    Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers.

    Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham)

    Stanley, Hon Arthur(Ormskirk

    Doxford, Sir William Theodore

    Lonsdale, John Brownlee

    Stanley, Edward J. (Somerset)

    Dyke, Rt Hon. Sir William Hart

    Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller

    Stephens, Henry Charles

    Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton

    Lowe, Francis William

    Stock, James Henry

    Faber, George Denison

    Lowles, John

    Strauss, Arthur

    Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward

    Loyd, Archie Kirkman

    Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley

    Fergusson, Rt Hn Sir J. (Manc'r)

    Lucas-Shad well, William

    Start, Hon. Humphry Napier

    Field, Admiral (Eastbourne)

    Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred

    Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

    Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne

    Macartney, W. G. Ellison;

    Talbot, Rt Hon. JG(Oxf'd Univ.

    Firbank, Joseph Thomas

    Macdona, John Cumming

    Thornton, Percy M.

    Fisher, William Hayes

    Maclure, Sir John William

    Tollemache, Henry James

    FitzGerahd, Sir Robert Penrose -

    M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)

    Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray

    Fitz Wygram, General Sir F.

    M'Killop, James

    Tritton, Charles Ernest

    Flannery, Sir Fortescue

    Malcolm, Ian

    Verney, Hon. Richard Greville

    Flower, Ernest

    Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J.

    Welby, Lt.-Col. A. CE (Taunton

    Foster, Colonel (Lancaster)

    Martin, Richard Biddulph

    Whiteley, H.(Ashton-under-L.

    Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk)

    Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W.F.

    Williams, Jos. Powell-(Birm.)

    Fry, Lewis

    Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire)

    Willoughby de Eresby, Lord

    Galloway, William Johnson

    Melville, Beresford Valentine

    Willox, Sir John Archibald

    Garfit, William

    Middlemore, John Throgmort'n

    Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.

    Gedge, Sydney

    Milbank, Sir Fowlett Charles J.

    Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks.)

    Gibbons, J. Lloyd

    Monckton, Edward Philip

    Wodehouse Rt. Hn. E. R(Bath)

    Gibbs, Hn. A.G.H (City of Lond.

    Monk, Charles James

    Wortloy, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

    Giles, Charles Tyrrell

    Moon, Edward Robert Pacy

    Wrightson, Sir Thomas

    Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick

    Moore, William (Antrim, N.)

    Wylie, Alexander

    Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Eldon

    More, Rt. Jasper (Shropshire)

    Wyndham, George

    Goschen, Rt Hn J G (St.George's

    Morrell, George Herbert

    Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arey

    Goschen, George J. (Sussex)

    Morrison, Jas. A. (Wilts., S.)

    Young, Commandr (Berks, E.)

    Goulding, Edward Alfred

    Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford

    Green, Walford D (Wednesbury

    Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute)

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstrutlier.

    Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury)

    Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)

    Greville, Hon. Ronald

    Murray, Col. Wyndham(Bath)

    Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

    Newdigate, Francis Alexander

    NOES.

    Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.)

    Ashton, Thomas Gair

    Billson, Alfred

    Abraham, William (Rhondda)

    Atherley-Jones, B.

    Blake, Edward

    Asher, Alexander

    Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire)

    Bolton, Thomas Dolling

    530

    531

    Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur

    Horniman, Frederick John

    Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

    Brigg, John

    Jacoby, James Alfred

    Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

    Broadhurst, Henry

    Joicey, Sir James

    Runciman, Walter

    Burt, Thomas

    Jones, David B. (Swansea)

    Samuel, J. (Stockton-on Tees)

    Buxton, Sydney Charles

    Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)

    Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh)

    Caldwell, James

    Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington)

    Soames, Arthur Wellesley

    Cameron, Robert (Durham)

    Lewis, John Herbert

    Souttar, Robinson

    Cawley, Frederick

    MacDonnell, Dr. M. A. (Qn's Co

    Spicer, Albert

    Channing, Francis Allston

    MacNeill, John Gordon Swift

    Steadman, William Charles

    Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal)

    M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)

    Strachey, Edward

    Dalziel, James Henry

    M'Kenna, Reginald

    Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)

    Dewar, Arthur

    M'Leod. John

    Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr

    Dilke, Rt. Hn. Sir Charles

    Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand

    Ure, Alexander

    Donelan, Captain A.

    Montagu, Sir S. (Whitechapel)

    Wallace, Robert

    Doogan, P. C.

    Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)

    Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

    Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)

    Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr)

    Whiteley, George (Stockport)

    Duckworth, James

    Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport)

    Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)

    Edwards, Owen Morgan

    Moss, Samuel

    Wilson, Jos. H. (Middlesbrough

    Emmott. Alfred

    O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

    Woodhouse, Sir JT (Huddersfld

    Gourley, Sir Edward Temperley

    Palmer, Sir Chas. M.(Durham)

    Woods, Samuel

    Griffith, Ellis J.

    Paulton, James Mellor

    Yoxall, James Henry

    Harwood, George

    Pickard, Benjamin

    Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale-

    Pickersgill, Edward Hare

    TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

    Hazell, Walter

    Price, Robert John

    Mr. Maddison and Mr. T. P. O'Connor.

    Hogan, James Francis

    Provand, Andrew Dryburgh

    Holland, William Henry

    Rickett, J. Compton

    11. £14,896, to complete the sum for House of Commons Offices.
    12. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum not exceeding £96,407, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during
    the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of Her Majesty's Secretary of State for the Home Department and Subordinate Offices."
    The Committee divided:—Ayes, 221; Noes, 79. (Division List No. 266.)

    AYES.

    Aird, John

    Clare, Octavius Leigh

    Fry, Lewis

    Allsopp, Hon. George

    Coghill, Douglas Hairy

    Galloway, William Johnson

    Anson, Sir William Reynell

    Cohen, Benjamin Louis

    Garfit, William

    Arrol, Sir William

    Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse

    Gedge, Sydney

    Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis

    Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready

    Gibbons, J. Lloyd

    Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John

    Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole

    Gibbs, Hn A. G. H. (City of Lond.

    Bailey, James (Walworth)

    Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth)

    Giles, Charles Tyrrell

    Balcarres, Lord

    Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref'd)

    Godson, Sir Augustus Fred.

    Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r

    Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow

    Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon

    Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W (Leeds

    Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W.

    Goschen, Rt. Hn.G J. (St. Geo.'s

    Barnes, Frederic Gorell

    Cotton-Jodrell, Col.Edw.T.D.

    Goschen, George J. (Sussex)

    Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol

    Cox, Irwin Edw. Bainbridge

    Goulding, Edward Alfred

    Beach, Rt. Hn. W. W. B. (Hants

    Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton)

    Gourley, Sir Edward T.

    Beckett, Ernest William

    Curzon, Viscount

    Green, W. D. (Wednesbury)

    Bentinck, Lord Henry C.

    Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham)

    Greene, HenryD.(Shrewsbury)

    Bethell, Commander

    Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph

    Greville, Hon. Ronald

    Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.

    Donkin, Richard Sim

    Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

    Bigwood, James

    Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-

    Gull, Sir Cameron

    Bill, Charles

    Doxford, Sir William Theodore

    Guthrie, Walter Murray

    Blundell, Colonel Henry

    Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. H.

    Halsey, Thomas Frederick

    Brassey, Albert

    Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton

    Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Lord George

    Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John

    Faber, George Denison

    Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert W.

    Brown, Alexander H.

    Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw.

    Hardy, Laurence

    Bullard, Sir Harry

    Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Manc'r

    Haslett, Sir James Horner

    Butcher, John George

    Field, Admiral (Eastbourne)

    Heath, James

    Carlile, William Walter

    Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne

    Hill, Arthur (Down, West)

    Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

    Firbank, Joseph Thomas

    Hoare, Edw Brodie (Hampstead

    Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbys.

    Fisher, William Hayes

    Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)

    Cayzer, Sir Charles William

    FitzGerald, Sir R. Penrose-

    Hornby, Sir William Henry

    Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East)

    Fitz Wygram, General Sir F.

    Houston, R. P.

    Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.

    Flannery, Sir Fortescue

    Howard, Joseph

    Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r)

    Flower, Ernest

    Hudson, George Bickersteth

    Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry

    Foster, Colonel (Lancaster)

    Hughes, Colonel Edwin

    Charrington, Spencer

    Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk)

    Hutchinson, Capt. G. W. Grice-

    Hutton, John (Yorks, N.R.)

    Monk, Charles James

    Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew

    Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies

    Moon, Edward Robert Pacy

    Sidebottom, Willian (Derbysh.

    Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick

    Moore, William (Antrim, N.)

    Simeon, Sir Harrington

    Jenkins, Sir John Jones

    More, Robert J. (Shopshire)

    Sinclair, Louis (Romford)

    Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton

    Morrell, George Herbert

    Skewes-Cox, Thomas

    Joicey, Sir James

    Morrison, Jas. A. (Wilts, S.)

    Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch)

    Kenyon, James

    Morton, Arthur H. A. Deptford

    Smith, Jas. Parker (Lanarks.)

    Keswick, William

    Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute)

    Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

    Kimber, Henry

    Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)

    Spencer, Ernest

    Lafone, Alfred

    Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath

    Stanley, Hon Arthur (Ormskirk

    Laurie, Lieut.-General

    Newdigate, Francis Alexander

    Stanley, Edward J. (Somerset)

    Lawrence, Sir E Durning-(Corn

    Nicol, Donald Ninian

    Stephens, Henry Charles

    Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool

    O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens

    Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.

    Lawson, John Grant (Yorks)

    Palmer, Sir Charles M (Durham

    Stock, James Henry

    Lea, Sir T. (Londonderry)

    Paulton, James Mellor

    Strauss, Arthur

    Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie

    Peel, Hon. William Robert W.

    Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley

    Llewellyn, Evan H. (Somerset)

    Penn, John

    Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier

    Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn(Swansea

    Phillpotts, Captain Arthur

    Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

    Lock wood, Lt.-Col. A. R.

    Pierpoint, Robert

    Thornton, Percy M.

    Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham

    Pilkington, Rich (LancsNewt'n

    Tollemache, Henry James

    Lonsdale, John Brownlee

    Pollock, Harry Frederick

    Tomlinson, William Edw. M.

    Lopes, Henry Yarde Boiler

    Pretyman, Ernest George

    Tritton, Charles Ernest

    Lowe, Francis William

    Purvis, Robert

    Verney, Hn. Richard Creville

    Lowles, John

    Pym, C. Guy

    Welby, Lt-Col A.C.E. (Taunt'n

    Loyd, Archie Kirkman

    Rasch, Major Frederic Carne

    Whiteley, H. (Ashton-under-L.

    Lucas-Shadwell, William

    Remnant, James Farquharson

    Williams, Joseph Powell-(Birm

    Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred

    Rentoul, James Alexander

    Willoughby de Eres by, Lord

    Macartney, W. G. Ellison

    Richards, Henry Charles

    Willox, Sir John Archibald

    Macdona, John Cumming

    Richardson, Sir T. (Hartlepool)

    Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.

    Maclure, Sir John William

    Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W.

    Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks)

    M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)

    Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson

    Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath)

    M'Killop, James

    Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye

    Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

    Malcolm, Ian

    Round, James

    Wrightson, Sir Thomas

    Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J.

    Royds, Clement Molyneux

    Wyhe, Alexander

    Martin, Richard Biddulph

    Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)

    Wyndham, George

    Massey-Main waring, Hn. W.F.

    Sandon, Viscount

    Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy

    Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire)

    Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles

    Young, Commander, (Berks, E.)

    Melville, Beresford Valentine

    Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard

    Middlemore, J. Throgmorton

    Seely, Charles Hilson

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

    Milbank, Sir Powlett Chas, J.

    Seton-Karr, Henry

    Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.

    Monckton, Edward Philip

    Sharpe, William Edward T.

    NOES.

    Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.)

    Ferguson, R. C. Munro(Leith)

    Price, Robert John

    Abraham, William (Rhondda)

    Griffith, Ellis J.

    Provand, Andrew Dryburgh

    Asher, Alexander

    Harwood, George

    Rickett, J. Compton

    Ashton, Thomas Gair

    Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale-

    Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

    Atherley-Jones, L.

    Hazell, Walter

    Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

    Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire)

    Hogan, James Francis

    Runciman, Walter

    Billson, Alfred

    Holland, William Henry

    Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)

    Blake, Edward

    Horniman, Frederick John

    Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh

    Bolton, Thomas Dolling

    Jacoby, James Alfred

    Soames, Arthar Wellesley

    Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur

    Jones, David B. (Swansea)

    Souttar, Robinson

    Brigg, John

    Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.)

    Spicer, Albert

    Broadhurst, Henry

    Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington)

    Steadman, William Charles

    Burt, Thomas

    Lewis, John Herbert

    Strachey, Edward

    Buxton, Sydney Charles

    MacDonnell, Dr. ML A.(Qn'sC)

    Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)

    Caldwell, James

    MacNeill, John Gordon Swift

    Thomas, David A. (Merthyr)

    Cameron, Robert (Durham)

    M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)

    Ure, Alexander

    Cawley, Frederick

    M'Kenna, Reginald

    Wallace, Robert

    Channing, Francis Allston

    M'Leod, John

    Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

    Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal

    Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand

    Whiteley, George (Stockport)

    Dalziel, James Henry

    Montagu, Sir S.(Whitechapel)

    Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.

    Dewar, Arthur

    Morgan,J. Lloyd Carmarthen)

    Wilson, H. (Middlesbrough

    Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

    Morgan, W Pritchard(Merthyr

    Woodhouse, Sir J T (Huddersf'd

    Donelan, Captain A.

    Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport)

    Yoxall, James Henry

    Doogan, P. C.

    Moss, Samuel

    Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark

    O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

    TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

    Duckworth, James

    O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

    Mr. Maddison and Mr. Woods.

    Edwards, Owen Morgan

    Pickard Benjamin

    Emmott, Alfred

    Pickersgill, Edward Hare

    13. £133,561, to complete the sum for Board of Trade.
    14. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £64,018, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during
    the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, for the Salaries and Expenses of certain services transferred from the Mercantile Marine Fund."
    The Committee divided:—Ayes, 230;. Noes, 70. (Division List No. 267.)

    AYES.

    Aird, John

    Fergusson, Rt Hn Sir J. (Manc'r)

    Long, Col. Charles W (Evesham

    Allsopp, Hon. George

    Field, Admiral (Eastbourne)

    Lonsdale, John Brownlee

    Anson, Sir William Reynell

    Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne

    Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller

    Arrol, Sir William

    Firbank, Joseph Thomas

    Lowe, Francis William

    Asher, Alexander

    Fisher, William Hayes

    Lowles, John

    Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis

    FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose-

    Loyd, Archie Kirkman

    Atherley-Jones, L.

    Fitz Wygram, General Sir F.

    Lucas-Shadwell, William

    Atkinson, Rt. Hon. Joint

    Flannery, Sir Fortescue

    Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred

    Bailey, James (Walworth)

    Flower, Ernest

    Macartney, W. G. Ellison

    Balcarres, Lord

    Foster, Colonel (Lancaster)

    Macdona, John Gumming

    Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r

    Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk)

    Maclure, Sir John William

    Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds

    Fry, Lewis

    M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)

    Barnes, Frederic Gorell

    Galloway, William Johnson

    M'Kenna, Reginald

    Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol

    Garfit, William

    M'Killop, James

    Beach, Rt. Hon. W.W.B (Hants

    Gedge, Sydney

    Malcolm, Ian

    Beckett, Ernest William

    Gibbons, J. Lloyd

    Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J.

    Bentinck, Lord Henry C

    Gibbs, Hn. A.G. H. (City of Lond

    Martin, Richard Biddulph

    Bethell, Commander

    Giles, Charles Tyrrell

    Massey-Mainwaring, Hn.W.F.

    Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.

    Gladstone, Rt. Hn Herbert John

    Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire)

    Bigwood, James

    Godson, Sir Augustus Fred.

    Melville, Beresford Valentine

    Bill, Charles

    Gorst, Rt. Hon. SirJohnEldon

    Middlemore, John T.

    Blundell, Colonel Henry

    Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J. (St. Geo.'s

    Milbank, Sir Powlett Chas. J.

    Brassey, Albert

    Goschen, George J. (Sussex)

    Monckton, Edward Philip

    Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John

    Goulding, Edward Alfred

    Monk, Charles James

    Brown, Alexander H.

    Green, W. D. (Wednesbury)

    Moon, Edward Robert Pacy

    Bullard, Sir Harry

    Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury)

    Moore, William (Antrim, N.

    Butcher, John George

    Greville, Hon. Ronald

    More, R. Jasper (Shropshire)

    Buxton, Sydney Charles

    Gull, Sir Cameron

    Morrell, George Herbert

    Carlile, William Walter

    Halsey, Thomas Frederick

    Morrison, Jas. A. (Wilts., S.).

    Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H.

    Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Lord G.

    Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford

    Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbys.

    Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robert W.

    Murray, Rt Hn A Graham (Bute

    Cayzer, Sir Charles William

    Hardy, Laurence

    Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)

    Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East)

    Haslett, Sir James Horner

    Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath

    Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.

    Hazell, Walter

    Newdigate, Francis Alex.

    Chamberlain, J Austen (Worc'r

    Heath, James

    Nicol, Donald Ninian

    Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry

    Hill, Arthur (Down, West)

    O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens

    Charrington, Spencer

    Hoare, Edw Brodie (Hampstead

    Palmer, Sir Chas. M. (Durham.

    Clare, Octavius Leigh

    Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)

    Paulton, James Meilor

    Coghill, Douglas Harry

    Hornby, Sir William Henry

    Peel, Hon. Wm. Robert W.

    Cohen, Benjamin Louis

    Houston, R.P.

    Penn, John

    Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse

    Howard, Joseph

    Phillpotts, Captain Arthur

    Colomo, Sir John Charles Ready

    Hudson, George Bickersteth

    Pierpoint, Robert

    Colston, C. E. H. Athole

    Hughes, Colonel Edwin

    Pilkington, R. (Lancs, Newton

    Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth)

    Hutton, John (Yorks, N.R.)

    Pollock, Harry Frederick

    Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref'd)

    Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies

    Pretyman, Ernest George

    Corbett, A. Cameron(Glasgow)

    Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick

    Purvis, Robert

    Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W.

    Jenkins, Sir John Jones

    Pym, C. Guy

    Cotton-Jodrell, Col. Edw. T. D.

    Jessel, Captain H. M.

    Rasch, Major Frederic C.

    Cox, Irwin E. Bainbridge

    Joicey, Sir James

    Remnant, James Farquharson

    Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton)

    Kenyon, James

    Rentoul, James Alexander

    Curzon, Viscount

    Keswick, William

    Richards, Henry Charles

    Davies, Sir Hor. D. (Chatham)

    Kimber, Henry

    Richardson, Sir T. (Hartlep'l)

    Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

    Lafone, Alfred

    Rickett, J. Compton

    Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph

    Laurie, Lieut.-General

    Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir Matthew W

    Donkin, Richard Sim

    Lawrence, Sir E. D.(Cornwall)

    Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. T.

    Donglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-

    Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)

    Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye

    Doxford, Sir William Theodore

    Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.)

    Round, James

    Dyke, Rt. Hon Sir William Hart

    Lea, Sir Thomas (Londonderry

    Royds, Clement Molyneux

    Egerton, Hon. A.de Tatton

    Leese, Sir Joseph F (Accrington

    Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)

    Faber, George Denison

    Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie

    Sandon, Viscount

    Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw.

    Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'ns'a

    Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles.

    Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith)

    Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.

    Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard

    Seely, Charles Hilton

    Strauss, Arthur

    Willoughby do Eresby, Lord

    Seton-Karr, Henry

    Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley

    Willox, Sir John Archibald

    Sharpe, William Edward T.

    Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier

    Wilson, J. W.(Worcestersh, N.)

    Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew

    Talbot, Lord R. (Chichester)

    Wilson-Todd, Wm. H.(Yorks.)

    Sidebottom, Wm.(Derbyshire)

    Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G (Oxf'dUniv.

    Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R (Bath)

    Simeon, Sir Barrington

    Thornton, Percy M.

    Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

    Sinclair, Louis (Romford)

    Tollemache, Henry James

    Wrightson, Sir Thomas

    Skewes-Cox, Thomas

    Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray

    Wylie, Alexander

    Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch)

    Tritton, Charles Ernest

    Wyndham, George

    Smith, Jas, Parker(Lanarks.)

    Ure, Alexander

    Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy

    Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

    Verney, Hon. Richard Greville

    Young, Commander (Berks, E.)

    Stanley, Hon Arthur (Ormskirk

    Wallace, Robert

    Stanley, Edward J. (Somerset)

    Welby, Lt.-Col. A.C.E (Taunt'n

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

    Stephens, Henry Charles

    Whiteley, George (Stockport)

    Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.

    Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.

    Whiteley, H.(Ashton-under-L.

    Stock, James Henry

    Williams, J. Powell - (Birm.)

    NOES.

    Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.)

    Gourley, Sir Edward Temperley

    Pickard, Benjamin

    Abraham, William (Rhondda)

    Griffith, Ellis, J.

    Pickersgill, Edward Hare

    Ashton, Thomas Gair

    Harwood, George

    Price, Robert John

    Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert H.

    Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale-

    Provand, Andrew Dryburgh

    Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire)

    Hogan, James Francis

    Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

    Billson, Alfred

    Holland, William Henry

    Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

    Blake, Edward

    Horniman, Frederick John

    Runciman, Walter

    Bolton, Thomas Dolling

    Jacoby, James Alfred

    Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)

    Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur

    Jones. David B. (Swansea)

    Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh)

    Brigg, John

    Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.

    Soames, Arthur Wellesley

    Broadhurst, Henry

    Labouchere, Henry

    Souttar, Robinson

    Burt, Thomas

    Lewis, John Herbert

    Spicer, Albert

    Caldwell, James

    MacDonnell, Dr. M. A (Qn.'s C.

    Strachey, Edward

    Cameron, Robert (Durham)

    MacNeill, John Gordon Swift

    Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)

    Cawley, Frederick

    M'Arthur, William (Cornwall

    Thomas, David A (Merthyr)

    Channing, Francis Allston

    M'Leod, John

    Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

    Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal)

    Maddis m, Fred.

    Wilson, Henry J. (Yorks, W. R.)

    Dalziel, James Henry

    Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand

    Woodhouse, Sir J T (Huddersf'd

    Dewar, Arthur

    Montagu, Sir S. (Whitechapel)

    Woods, Samuel

    Donelan, Captain A.

    Morgan, J. Lloyd(Carmarthen

    Yoxall, James Henry

    Doogan, P. C.

    Morgan, W Pritchard(Merthyr

    Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)

    Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport)

    TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

    Duckworth, James

    Moss, Samuel

    MR. Havelock Wilson and Mr. Steadman.

    Edwards, Owen Morgan

    O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

    Emmott, Alfred

    O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

    15. £5, to complete the sum for the Bankruptcy Department of the Board of Trade.
    16. £13,439, to complete the sum for the Woods, Forests, and Land Revenues, etc., Office.
    17. £33,040, to complete the sum for the Works and Public Buildings Office.
    18. Motion made, and Question put,
    "That a sum, not exceeding £25,000, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, for Her Majesty's Foreign and other Secret Services."
    The Committee divided:—Ayes, 233; Noes, 67. (Division List No. 268.)

    AYES.

    Aird, John

    Beach, Rt. Hn. W. W. B.(Hants.

    Buxton, Sydney Charles

    Allsopp, Hon. George

    Beckett, Ernest William

    Carlile, William Walter

    Anson, Sir William Reynell

    Bentinck, Lord Henry C.

    Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

    Arrol, Sir William

    Bethell, Commander

    Cavendish, V. C.W(Derbysh.

    Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis

    Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.

    Cayzer, Sir Charles William

    Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry

    Bigwood, James

    Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East)

    Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John

    Bill, Charles

    Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)

    Bailey, James (Walworth)

    Blundell, Colonel Henry

    Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.

    Balcarres, Lord

    Brassey, Albert

    Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r

    Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r)

    Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John

    Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry

    Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds

    Brown, Alexander H.

    Charrington, Spencer

    Barnes, Frederic Gorell

    Bullard, Sir Harry

    Clare, Octavius Leigh

    Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Brist'l)

    Butcher, John George

    Coghill, Douglas Harry

    Cohen, Benjamin Louis

    Hudson, George Bickersteth

    Pierpoint, Robert

    Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse

    Hughes, Colonel Edwin

    Pilkington, R. (Lancs, Newton

    Colomb, Sir John Charles R.

    Hutchinson, Capt. G. W. Grice.

    Pollock, Harry Frederick

    Colston, Charles E. H. Athole

    Hutton, John (Yorks, N.R.)

    Pretyman, Ernest George

    Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth)

    Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies

    Provand, Andrew Dryburgh

    Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford)

    Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick

    Purvis, Robert

    Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)

    Jenkins, Sir John Jones

    Rasch, Major Frederic Carne

    Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W.

    Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton

    Remnant, James Farquharson

    Cotton-Jodrell, Col. E. T. D.

    Joicey, Sir James

    Rentoul, James Alexander

    Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge

    Jones, David Brynmor (Swans'a

    Richards, Henry Charles

    Cross, Herbert S. (Bolton)

    Kenyon, James

    Richardson, Sir T. (Hartlep'l)

    Curzon, Viscount

    Keswick, William

    Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W.

    Davies, Sir Horatio D(Chatham

    Kimber, Henry

    Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. T.

    Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

    Lafone, Alfred

    Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye

    Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph

    Laurie, Lieut.-General

    Round, James

    Donkin, Richard Sim

    Lawrence, Sir E Durning-(Corn.

    Royds, Clement Molyneux

    Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-

    Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)

    Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)

    Doxford, Sir William Theodore

    Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.)

    Sandon, Viscount

    Dyke, Rt. Hon Sir William Hart

    Lea, Sir Thomas(Londonderry)

    Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles.

    Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton

    Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington

    Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard

    Faber, George Denison

    Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie

    Seely, Charles Hilton

    Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward

    Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'ns'a

    Seton-Karr, Henry

    Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J (Manc'r

    Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.

    Sharpe, William Edward T.

    Field, Admiral (Eastbourne)

    Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham

    Shaw-Stewart, M. H.(Renfrew)

    Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne

    Lonsdale, John Brownlee

    Sidebottom, William(Derbysh.

    Firbank, Joseph Thomas

    Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller

    Simeon, Sir Harrington

    Fisher, William Hayes

    Lowe, Francis William

    Skewes-Cox, Thomas

    FitzGerald, Sir RobertPenrose-

    Lowles, John

    Smith, Abel H.(Christchurch)

    Fitz Wygram, General Sir F.

    Loyd, Archie Kirkman

    Smith, James P. (Lanarks.)

    Flannery, Sir Fortescue

    Lucas-Shadwell, William

    Smith, Hn. W. F. D. (Strand)

    Flower, Ernest

    Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred

    Spencer, Ernest

    Foster, Colonel (Lancaster)

    Macartney, W. G. Ellison

    Stanley, Hon. A. (Orinskirk)

    Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk)

    Macdona, John Cumming

    Stanley, Edward J. (Somerset)

    Galloway, William Johnson

    Maclure, Sir John William

    Stephens, Henry Charles

    Garfit, William

    M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)

    Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.

    Gedge, Sydney

    M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)

    Stock, James Henry

    Gibbons, J. Lloyd

    M'Killop, James

    Strachey, Edward

    Gibbs, Hn AGH (City of London

    Malcolm, Ian

    Strauss, Arthur

    Giles, Charles Tyrell

    Manners, Lord Edward Wm J.

    Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley

    Gladstone, Rt Hn. Herbert John

    Martin, Richard Biddulph

    Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier

    Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick

    Massey-Mainwaring, Hn W.F.

    Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

    Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon

    Mellor. Colonel (Lancashire)

    Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G (Oxf'dUniv.

    Goschen, Rt. Hn G J (St George's

    Melville, Beresford Valentine

    Thornton, Percy M.

    Goschen, George J. (Sussex)

    Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand

    Tollemache, Henry James

    Goulding, Edward Alfred

    Middlemore, John Throgmort'n

    Tomlinson, William Edw. M.

    Green, Walford D (Wednesbury

    Milbank, Sir Powlett Chas. J.

    Tritton, Charles Ernest

    Greene, Hy. D. (Shrewsbury)

    Monckton, Edward Philip

    Verney, Hn. Richard Greville

    Greville, Hon. Ronald

    Monk, Charles James

    Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

    Griffith, Ellis J.

    Moon, Edward Robert Pacy

    Welby, Lt-Col. A.C.E. (Taunt'n

    Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

    Moore, William (Antrim, N.)

    Whiteley, H. (Ashton-under-.L)

    Gull, Sir Cameron

    More, Robert J. (Shropshire)

    Williams, Joseph Powell-(Birm

    Guthrie, Walter Murray

    Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr)

    Willough by de Eresby, Lord

    Halsey, Thomas Frederick

    Morrell, George Herbert

    Willox, Sir John Archibald

    Hamilton, Rt. Hon Lord George

    Morrison, Jas. A. (Wilts., S.)

    Wilson, J. W.(Worcestersh. N.)

    Hanbury, Rt. Hon. RobertWm.

    Morton, Arthur H. A.(Deptford

    Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks.)

    Hardy, Laurence

    Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport)

    Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R.(Bath

    Haslett, Sir James Horner

    Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute)

    Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

    Hazell, Walter

    Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)

    Wrightson, Sir Thomas

    Heath, James

    Murray, Col. Wyndham(Bath)

    Wylie, Alexander

    Hill, Arthur (Down, West)

    Newdigate, Francis Alex.

    Wyndham, George

    Hoare, Edw Brodie (Hampstead

    Nicol, Donald Ninian

    Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy

    Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)

    O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens

    Young, Commander (Berks, E.)

    Holland, William Henry

    Paulton, James Mellor

    Hornby, Sir William Henry

    Peel, Hon. Wm. Robert AY.

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

    Houston, R. P.

    Penn, John

    Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.

    Howard, Joseph

    Phillpotts, Captain Arthur

    NOES.

    Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.)

    Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire)

    Brigg, John

    Abraham, William (Rhondda)

    Billson, Alfred

    Broadhurst, Henry

    Asher, Alexander

    Blake, Edward

    Burt, Thomas

    Ashton, Thomas Gair

    Bolton, Thomas Dolling

    Caldwell, James

    Atherley-Jones, L.

    Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur

    Cameron, Robert (Durham)

    540

    541

    Cawley, Frederick

    Lewis, John Herbert

    Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh)

    Channing, Francis Allston

    MacDonnell, Dr. M. A (Qn.'s Co.

    Soames, Arthur Wellesley

    Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal)

    M'Kenna, Reginald

    Souttar, Robinson

    Dalziel, James Henry

    M'Leod, John

    Spicer, Albert

    Dewar, Arthur

    Maddison, Fred.

    Steadman, William Charles

    Donelan, Captain A.

    Montagu, Sir S. (Whitechapel)

    Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)

    Doogan, P. C.

    Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)

    Thomas, David Alfd. (Merthyr)

    Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)

    Moss, Samuel

    Ure, Alexander

    Duckworth, James

    O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

    Wallace, Robert

    Edwards, Owen Morgan

    O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

    Whiteley, George (Stockport)

    Emmott, Alfred

    Palmer, Sir Chas. M. (Durham)

    Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)

    Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley

    Pickard, Benjamin

    Woodhouse, Sir J T (Huddersfld.

    Harwood, George

    Pickersgill, Edward Hare

    Woods, Samuel

    Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale-

    Price, Robert John

    Yoxall, James Henry

    Hogan, James Francis

    Rickett, J. Compton

    Horniman, Frederick. John

    Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

    TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

    Jacoby, James Alfred

    Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

    Mr. MacNeill and Mr. Havelock Wilson.

    Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.)

    Runciman, Walter

    Labouchere, Henry

    Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)

    19. £8,508, to complete the sum for the Local Government Board for Scotland.
    20. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £2,811, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which
    will come m course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1901, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Household of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland."
    The Committee divided:—Ayes, 213; Noes, 81. (Division List No. 269.)

    AYES.

    Aird, John

    Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole

    Green, W. D. (Wednesbury)

    Allsopp, Hon. George

    Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth)

    Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury)

    Anson, Sir William Reynell

    Cooke, C. W Radcliffe (Heref'd)

    Greville, Hon. Ronald

    Arrol, Sir William

    Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)

    Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

    Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis

    Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W.

    Gull, Sir Cameron

    Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry

    Cotton-Jodrell, Col. Edw. T. D.

    Guthrie, Walter Murray

    Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John

    Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge

    Halsey, Thomas Frederick

    Bailey, James (Walworth)

    Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton)

    Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Lord G.

    Balcarres, Lord

    Curzon, Viscount

    Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert W.

    Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r

    Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham)

    Hardy, Laurence

    Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W (Leeds

    Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph

    Haslett, Sir James Horner

    Barnes, Frederic Gorell

    Donkin, Richard Sim

    Heath, James

    Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M H. (Bristol

    Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-

    Hill, Arthur (Down, West)

    Beach, Rt. Hn. W. W. B. (Hants

    Doxford, Sir William Theodore

    Hoare, Edw. B. (Hampstead)

    Beckett, Ernest William

    Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir Win. H.

    Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)

    Bentinck, Lord Henry C.

    Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton

    Hornby, Sir William Henry

    Bethell, Commander

    Faber, George Denison

    Houston, R. P.

    Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.

    Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn E.

    Howard, Joseph

    Bigwood, James

    Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J (Manc'r

    Hudson, George Bickersteth

    Bill, Charles

    Field, Admiral (Eastbourne)

    Hughes, Colonel Edwin

    Blundell, Colonel Henry

    Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne

    Hutton, John (Yorks, N. R.)

    Brassey, Albert

    Firbank, Joseph Thomas

    Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies

    Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John

    Fisher, William Hayes

    Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick

    Brown, Alexander H.

    FitzGerald, Sir R. Penrose-

    Jenkins, Sir John Jones

    Bullard, Sir Harry

    Fitz Wygram, General Sir F.

    Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton

    Butcher, John George

    Flannery, Sir Fortescue

    Kenyon, James

    Carlile, William Walter

    Flower, Ernest

    Keswick, William

    Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

    Foster, Colonel (Lancaster)

    Kimber, Henry

    Cavendish, V. C. W (Derbyshire

    Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk)

    Lafone, Alfred

    Cayzer, Sir Charles William

    Galloway, William Johnson

    Laurie, Lieut.-General

    Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East)

    Garfit, William

    Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn

    Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)

    Gedge, Sydney

    Lawrence, Win. F. (Liverpool

    Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r

    Gibbons, J. Lloyd

    Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.)

    Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry

    Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H (City of Lond.

    Lea, Sir Thomas (Londonderry

    Charrington, Spencer

    Giles, Charles Tyrrell

    Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie

    Clare, Octavius Leigh

    Godson, Sir Augustus Fred.

    Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swans.

    Coghill, Douglas Harry

    Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John E.

    Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.

    Cohen, Benjamin Louis

    Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J (St. Geo.'s

    Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham

    Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse

    Goschen, George J. (Sussex)

    Lowe, Francis William

    Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready

    Goulding, Edward Alfred

    Lowles, John

    Loyd, Archie Kirkman

    Phillpotts, Captain Arthur

    Stanley, Hon Arthur (Ormskirk

    Lucas-Shadwell, William

    Pierpoint, Robert

    Stanley, Edward-Jas. (Somerset

    Lyttleton, Hon. Alfred

    Pilkingtan, Rich (Lancs Newt'n

    Stephens, Henry Charles

    Macartney, W. G. Ellison

    Pollock, Harry Frederick

    Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.

    Macdona, John Cumming

    Pretyman, Ernest George

    Stock, James Henry

    Maclure, Sir John William

    Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward

    Strauss, Arthur

    M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)

    Parvis, Robert

    Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley

    M'Killop, James

    Pym, C. Guy

    Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier

    Malcolm, Ian

    Rasch, Major Frederick Carne

    Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

    Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J.

    Remnant, James Farquharson

    Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G (Oxf'd Univ.

    Martin, Richard Biddulph

    Rentoul, James Alexander

    Thornton, Percy M.

    Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F.

    Richards, Henry Charles

    Tollemache, Henry James

    Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire)

    Richardson, Sir T. (Hartlep'l)

    Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray

    Melville, Beresford Valentine

    Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W.

    Tritton, Charles Finest

    Middlemore, J. Throgmorton

    Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Charles T.

    Verney, Hon. Richard Greville

    Milbank, Sir Powlett C. John

    Round, James

    Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E (Taunt'n

    Monckton, Edward Philip

    Royds, Clement Molyneux

    Whiteley, H. (Ashton-under-L.

    Monk, Charles James

    Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)

    Williams, Joseph Powell-(Birm

    Moon, Edward Robert Pacy

    Sandon, Viscount

    Willoughby de Eresby, Lord

    Moore, William (Antrim, N.)

    Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles

    Willox, Sir John Archibad

    More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire)

    Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard

    Wilson-Todd, Win. H. (Yorks.)

    Morrell, George Herbert

    Seely, Charles Hilton

    Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath)

    Morrison, James A. (Wilts., S.)

    Seton-Karr, Henry

    Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

    Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford

    Sharpe, William Edward T.

    Wrightson, Sir Thomas

    Murray, Rt. Hn A Graham(Bute

    Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew)

    Wylie, Alexander

    Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)

    Sidebottom, William (Derbysh.

    Wyndham, George

    Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)

    Simeon, Sir Barrington

    Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy

    Newdigate, Francis Alexander

    Sinclair, Louis (Romford)

    Young, Commander (Berks, E.)

    Nicol, Donald Ninian

    Skewes-Cox, Thomas

    Paulton, James Mellor

    Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch)

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

    Peel, Hon. William Robert W.

    Smith, Jas. Parker (Lanarks.)

    Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.

    Penn, John

    Spencer, Ernest

    NOES.

    Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.)

    Harwood, George

    Provand, Andrew Dryburgh

    Abraham, William (Rhondda)

    Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale-

    Rickett, J. Compton

    Asher, Alexander

    Hazell, Walter

    Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

    Ashton, Thomas Gair

    Hogan, James Francis

    Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

    Atherley-Jones, L.

    Holland, William Henry

    Rollit, Sir Albert Kayo

    Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire)

    Horniman, Frederick John

    Runciman, Walter

    Billson, Alfred

    Jacoby, James Alfred

    Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)

    Blake, Edward

    Joicey, Sir James

    Scott, Chas Prestwich (Leigh)

    Bolton, Thomas Dolling

    Jones, David B. (Swansea)

    Soames, Arthur Wellesley

    Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur

    Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)

    Souttar, Robinson

    Brigg, John

    Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington)

    Spicer, Albert

    Broadhurst, Henry

    Lewis, John Herbert

    Steadman, William Charles

    Burt, Thomas

    MacDonnell, Dr. M. A. (Qn.'s Co

    Strachey, Edward

    Buxton, Sydney Charles

    MacNeill, John Cordon Swift

    Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)

    Caldwell, James

    M'Kenna, Reginald

    Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr

    Cawley, Frederick

    M'Leod, John

    Ure, Alexander

    Channing, Francis Allston

    Maddison, Fred.

    Wallace, Robert

    Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal)

    Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand

    Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

    Dalziel, James Henry

    Montagu, Sir S.(Whitechapel)

    Whiteley, George (Stockport)

    Dewar, Arthur

    Morgan, J. Lloyd(Carmarthen)

    Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)

    Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

    Morgan, W Pritchard (Merthyr

    Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.)

    Doogan, P. C.

    Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport)

    Wilson, Jos. H (Middlesbrough)

    Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)

    Moss, Samuel

    Woodhouse, Sir J T (Hudd'rsf'd)

    Duckworth, James

    O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

    Woods, Samuel

    Edwards, Owen Morgan

    Palmer, Sir Chas. M. (Durham)

    Yoxall, James Henry

    Emmott, Alfred

    Pickard, Benjamin

    TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

    Gourley, Sir Edward Temperley

    Pickersgill, Edward Hare

    Captain Donelan and Mr. Patrick O'Brien.

    Griffith, Ellis J.

    Price, Robert John

    21. £63,245, to complete the sum for the Department of Agriculture and Technical Instruction, Ireland.
    22. £1,000, to complete the sum for Charitable Donations and Bequests Office, Ireland.
    23. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £3,117, be
    544
    granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Public Record Office in Ireland, and of the Keeper of State Papers in Dublin."
    The Committee divided:—Ayes, 231; Noes, 61. (Division List No. 270.)

    AYES.

    Aird, John

    Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk)

    Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire)

    Allsopp, Hon. George

    Galloway, William Johnson

    Melville, Beresford Valentine

    Anson, Sir William Reynell

    Garfit, William

    Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand

    Arrol, Sir William

    Gedge, Sydney

    Middlemore, J. Throgmorton

    Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis

    Gibbons, J. Lloyd

    Monckton, Edward Philip

    Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John

    Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H (City of Lond.

    Monk, Charles James

    Bailey, James (Walworth)

    Giles, Charles Tyrrell

    Moon, Edward Robert Pacy

    Balcarres, Lord

    Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick

    Moore, William (Antrim, N.)

    Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r)

    Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon

    More, Robert J. (Shropshire)

    Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W (Leeds

    Goschen, Rt. Hn G J (St George's

    Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr)

    Barnes, Frederic Gerell

    Goschen, George J. (Sussex)

    Morrell, George Herbert

    Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol

    Goulding, Edward Alfred

    Morrison, Jas. A. (Wilts., S.)

    Beach, Rt. Hn. W. W. B. (Hants.

    Gourley, Sir Edward Temperley

    Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford)

    Beckett, Ernest William

    Green, Walford D (Wednesbury

    Moss, Samuel

    Bentinck, Lord Henry C.

    Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury)

    Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute

    Bethell, Commander

    Greville, Hon. Ronald

    Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)

    Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.

    Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

    Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath

    Bigwood, James

    Gull, Sir Cameron

    Newdigate, Francis Alex.

    Bill, Charles

    Guthrie, Walter Murray

    Nicol, Donald Ninian

    Blundell, Colonel Henry

    Halsey, Thomas Frederick

    Palmer, Sir Chas. M. (Durham

    Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur

    Hamilton, Rt. Hon Lord George

    Paulton, James Mellor

    Brassoy, Albert

    Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Win.

    Peel, Hon. Wm. Robert W.

    Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John

    Hardy, Laurence

    Penn, John

    Brown, Alexander H.

    Haslett, Sir James Horner

    Phillpotts, Captain Arthur

    Bullard, Sir Harry

    Hazell, Walter

    Pierpoint, Robert

    Butcher, John George

    Heath, James

    Pilkington, R. (Lancs, Newton

    Buxton, Sydney Charles

    Mill, Arthur (Down, West)

    Pollock, Harry Frederick

    Carlile, William Waller

    Hoare, Edw Brodie (Hampstead

    Pretyman, Ernest George

    Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

    Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)

    Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edw.

    Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.)

    Hornby, Sir William Henry

    Purvis, Robert

    Cayzer, Sir Charles William

    Houston, R. P.

    Pym, C. Guy

    Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East)

    Howard, Joseph

    Rasch, Major Frederic Carne

    Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)

    Hudson, George Bickersteth

    Remnant, James Farquharson

    Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.)

    Hughes, Colonel Edwin

    Rentoul, James Alexander

    Chamberlain, J Austen (Worc'r

    Hutton, John (Yorks, N. R.)

    Richards, Henry Charles

    Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry

    Jackson, Rt. Hon. William L.

    Richardson, Sir T. (Hartlep'l)

    Charrington, Spencer

    Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick

    Rickett, J. Compton

    Coghill, Douglas Harry

    Jenkins, Sir John Jones

    Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W.

    Cohen, Benjamin Louis

    Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton

    Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. T.

    Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse

    Joicey, Sir James

    Rollit, Sir Albert Kayo

    Colomb, Sir. John Charles Ready

    Jones, David B. (Swansea)

    Round, James

    Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole

    Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)

    Royds, Clement Molyneux

    Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth)

    Kenyon, James

    Russsell, T. W. (Tyrone)

    Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref'd)

    Keswick, William

    Sandon, Viscount

    Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)

    Kimber, Henry

    Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles

    Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W.

    Lafone, Alfred

    Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard

    Cotton-Jodrell, Col. Edw. T. D.

    Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn

    Seely, Charles Hilton

    Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge

    Lawrence, W. F. (Liverpool)

    Seton-Karr, Henry

    Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton

    Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.)

    Sharpe, William Edward T.

    Curzon, Viscount

    Lea, Sir Thos. (Londonderry)

    Shaw-Stewart, M. H (Renfrew)

    Davies, Sir Horatio D (Chatham

    Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington)

    Sidebottom, William (Derbys.)

    Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

    Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie

    Simeon, Sir Barrington

    Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph

    Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swan.

    Sinclair, Louis (Romford)

    Donkin, Richard Sim

    Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R.

    Skewes-Cox, Thomas

    Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-

    Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesh'm)

    Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch)

    Doxford, Sir William Theodore

    Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller

    Smith, James Parker (Lanarks)

    Dyke, Rt. Hon Sir William Hart

    Lowe, Francis William

    Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

    Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton

    Lowles, John

    Spencer, Ernest

    Faber, George Denison

    Loyd, Archie Kirkman

    Spicer, Albert

    Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward

    Lucas-Shadwell, William

    Stanley, Hon Arthur (Ormskirk

    Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J (Manc'r

    Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred

    Stanley, Edward. Jas (Somerset)

    Field, Admiral (Eastbourne)

    Macartney, W. G. Ellison

    Stephens, Henry Charles

    Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne

    Macdona, John Cumming

    Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.

    Firbank, Joseph Thomas

    Maclure, Sir John William

    Stock, James Henry

    Fisher, William Hayes

    M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)

    Strachey, Edward

    FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose-

    M'Killop, James

    Strauss, Arthur

    Fitz Wygram, General Sir F.

    Malcolm, Ian

    Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley

    Flannery, Sir Fortescue

    Manners, Lord Edward W. J.

    Sturt, Hon. Humphrey Napier

    Flower, Ernest

    Martin, Richard Biddulph

    Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

    Foster, Colonel (Lancaster)

    Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F.

    Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G (Oxf'd Univ.

    546

    547

    Thornton, Percy M.

    Williams, Joseph Powell-(Birm

    Wylie, Alexander

    Tollemache, Henry James

    Willoughby de Eresby, Lord

    Wyndham, George

    Tomlinson, Win. Edw. Murray

    Willox, Sir John Archibald

    Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy

    Tritton, Charles Ernest

    Wi1son,J. W. (Worcestersh, N.)

    Young, Commanded Berks, E.)

    Verney, Hon. Richard Greville

    Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.)

    Welby, Lt-Col. A. C. E (Taunton

    Wodehouse, Rt. Hon. E R (Bath)

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

    Whiteley, George (Stockport)

    Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

    Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.

    Whiteley, H. (Ashton-under-L.

    Wrightson, Sir Thomas

    NOES.

    Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.)

    Emmott, Alfred

    Provand, Andrew Dryburgh

    Abraham, William (Rhondda)

    Griffith, Ellis J.

    Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

    Asher, Alexander

    Harwood, George

    Runciman, Walter

    Ashton, Thomas Gair

    Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale-

    Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)

    Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert H.

    Hogan, James Francis

    Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh)

    Atherley-Jones, L.

    Holland, William Henry

    Soames, Arthur Wellesley

    Billson, Alfred

    Horniman, Frederick John

    Souttar, Robinson

    Bolton, Thomas Dolling

    Jacoby, James Alfred

    Steadman, William Charles

    Brigg, John

    Lewis, John Herbert

    Sullivan, Donal Westmeath)

    Broadhurst, Henry

    MacDonnell, Dr. M. A. (Qn.'s Co

    Thomas, David A. (Merthyr)

    Burt, Thomas

    MacNeill, John Gordon Swift

    Ure, Alexander

    Caldwell, James

    M'Kenna, Reginald

    Wallace, Robert

    Cawley, Frederick

    M'Leod, John

    Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

    Channing, Francis Allston

    Maddison, Fred.

    Wilson, Henry J.(York, W. R.)

    Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal)

    Montagu, Sir S.(Whitechapel)

    Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough)

    Daziel, James Henry

    Morgan, J Lloyd (Carmarthen)

    Woodhouse, Sir J T (Huddersfld

    Dewar, Arthur

    Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport)

    Woods, Samuel

    Doogan, P. C.

    O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

    Yoxall, James Henry

    Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)

    Pickard, Benjamin

    TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

    Duckworth, James

    Pickersgill, Edward Hare

    Captain Donelan and Mr. Patrick O'Brien.

    Edwards, Owen Morgan

    Price, Robert John

    24. £20,682, to complete the sum for the Public Works Office, Ireland.
    25. £8,814, to complete the sum for the Registrar General's Office, Ireland.
    26. £10,589, to complete the sum for the Valuation and Boundary Survey, Ireland.

    Class III.
    27. £56,652, to complete the sum for Law Charges and Courts of Law, Scotland.
    28. £29,237, to complete the sum for the Register House, Edinburgh.
    29. £3,000, to complete the sum for the Crofters' Commission.
    30. £50,684, to complete the sum for Prisons, Scotland.
    31. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £33,510, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, for Criminal Prosecutions and other Law Charges in Ireland."
    The Committee divided:—Ayes, 222; Noes, 67. (Division List No. 271.)

    AYES.

    Aird, John

    Blundell, Colonel Henry

    Cohen, Benjamin Louis

    Allsopp, Hon. George

    Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur

    Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse

    Anson, Sir William Reynell

    Brassey, Albeit

    Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready

    Arrol, Sir William

    Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John

    Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole

    Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis

    Brown, Alexander H.

    Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth)

    Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John

    Bullard, Sir Harry

    Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref'd)

    Bailey, James (Walworth)

    Butcher, John George

    Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)

    Balcarres, Lord

    Buxton, Sydney Charles

    Cornwallis, Fiennes S. W.

    Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r)

    Carlile, William Walter

    Cotton-Jodrell, Col. E. T. D.

    Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W (Leeds

    Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H.

    Cox, Irwin Edward B.

    Barnes, Frederic Gorell

    Cavendish, V.C. W (Derbyshire

    Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton

    Beach Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol

    Cayzer, Sir Charles William

    Curzon, Viscount

    Beach, Rt. Hn. W. W. B. (Hants,

    Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East)

    Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham)

    Beckett, Ernest William

    Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)

    Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

    Bentinck, Lord Henry C.

    Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.)

    Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph

    Bethell, Commander

    Chamberlain, J Austen (Worc'r

    Donkin, Richard Sim

    Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.

    Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry

    Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-

    Bigwood, James

    Charrington, Spencer

    Doxford, Sir William T.

    Bill, Charles

    Coghill, Douglas Harry

    Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. H.

    Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton

    Lawrence, W. F. (Liverpool)

    Rickett, J. Compton

    Faber, George Denison

    Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.)

    Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir Matthew W

    Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw.

    Lea, Sir Thos. (Londonderry)

    Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson

    Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Manc'r

    Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington)

    Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye

    Field, Admiral (Eastbourne)

    Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie

    Round, James

    Finlay, Sir Robert B.

    Llewelyn, Sir D. (Swansea)

    Royds, Clement Molyneux

    Firbank, Joseph Thomas

    Long, Col. O. W. (Evesham)

    Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)

    Fisher, William Hayes

    Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller

    Sandon, Viscount

    FitzGerald, Sir R. Penrose-

    Lowe, Francis William

    Sandys, Lieut.-Col. Thos Myles

    Fitz Wygram, General Sir F.

    Lowles, John

    Seely, Charles Hilton

    Flannery, Sir Fortescue

    Loyd, Archie Kirkman

    Seton-Karr, Henry

    Flower, Ernest

    Lucas-Shadwell, William

    Sharpe, William Edward T.

    Foster, Colonel (Lancaster)

    Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred

    Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew)

    Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk)

    Macartney, W. G. Ellison

    Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbyshire)

    Galloway, William Johnson

    Macdona, John dimming

    Simeon, Sir Barrington

    Garfit, William

    MacIver, David (Liverpool)

    Sinclair, Louis (Romford)

    Gedge, Sydney

    Maclure, Sir John William

    Skewes-Cox, Thomas

    Gibbons, J. Lloyd

    M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)

    Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch)

    Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H (City of Lond.

    M'Killop, James

    Smith, Jas. Parker (Lanarks.)

    Giles, Charles Tyrrell

    Malcolm, fan

    Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

    Godson, Sir Augustus Fred.

    Manners, Lord Edward W. J.

    Spencer, Ernest

    Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John E.

    Martin, Richard Biddulph

    Stanley, Hon Arthur (Ormskirk

    Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J. (St. Geo.'s

    Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F

    Stanley, Edward J. (Somerset)

    Goschen, George J. (Sussex)

    Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire)

    Stephens, Henry Charles

    Goulding, Edward Alfred

    Melville, Beresford Valentine

    Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.

    Green W. D. (Wednesbury)

    Middlemore, J. Throgmorton

    Stock, James Henry

    Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury)

    Milbank, Sir Powlett Chas John

    Strachey, Edward

    Greville, Hon. Ronald

    Monckton, Edward Philip

    Strauss, Arthur

    Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

    Monk, Charles James

    Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley

    Gull, Sir Cameron

    Moon, Edward Robert Pacy

    Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier

    Guthrie, Walter Murray

    Moore, William (Antrim, N.)

    Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

    Halsey, Thomas Frederick

    More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire)

    Thornton, Percy M.

    Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Lord G.

    Morrell, George Herbert

    Tollemache, Henry James

    Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert W.

    Morrison, James A. (Wilts., S.)

    Tomlinson, Win. Edw. Murray

    Hardy, Laurence

    Morton, Arthur H. A (Deptford)

    Tritton, Charles Ernest

    Haslett, Sir James Horner

    Murray, Rt. Hn A Graham (Bute

    Verney, Hon. Richard Greville

    Heath, James

    Murray, Charles J.(Coventry)

    Wallace, Robert

    Hill, Arthur (Down, West)

    Murray, Col. Wyndham(Bath)

    Welby, Lt. -Col. A. C. E (Taunt'n

    Hoare, Edward B. (Hampst'd)

    Newdigate, Francis Alexander

    Whiteley, George (Stockport)

    Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)

    Nicol, Donald Ninian

    Whiteley, H. (Ashton-under-L.

    Hornby, Sir William Henry

    Palmer, Sir Charles M (Durham)

    Williams, Jos. Powell-(Birm.)

    Houston, R. P.

    Paulton, James Mellor

    Willoughby de Eresby, Lord

    Howard, Joseph

    Peel, Hn. Wm Robert Wellesley

    Willox, Sir John Archibald

    Hudson, George Bickersteth

    Penn, John

    Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.)

    Hughes, Colonel Edwin

    Philpotts, Captain Arthur

    Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.)

    Hutchinson, Capt. G. W. Grice-

    Pierpoint, Robert

    Wodehouse, Rt. Hon. E. R (Bath

    Hutton, John (Yorks, N. R.)

    Pilkington, H. (Lancs, Newton)

    Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart-

    Jackson, Rt. Hon. William L.

    Pollock, Harry Frederick

    Wrightson, Sir Thomas

    Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick

    Pretyman, Ernest George

    Wylie, Alexander

    Jenkins, Sir John Jones

    Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward

    Wyndham, George

    Jessel, Capn. Herbert Merton

    Purvis, Robert

    Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy

    Kenyon, James

    Pym, C. Guy

    Young, Commander (Berks, E.)

    Keswick, William

    Rasch, Major Frederic Carne

    Limber, Henry

    Remnant, James Farquharson

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

    Lafone, Alfred

    Rentoul, James Alexander

    Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.

    Laurie, Lieut.-General

    Richards, Henry Charles

    Lawrence, Sir E. D. (Cornw'l)

    Richardson, Sir Thos. (Hartlep'l

    NOES.

    Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.)

    Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal)

    Horniman, Frederick John

    Abraham, William (Rhondda)

    Dalziel, James Henry

    Joicey, Sir James

    Asher, Alexander

    Dewar, Arthur

    Jones, David B. (Swansea)

    Ashton, Thomas Gair

    Doogan, P. C.

    Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)

    Atherley-Jones, L.

    Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)

    Lewis, John Herbert

    Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire)

    Duckworth, James

    MacDonnell, Dr M A (Queen's C

    Billson, Alfred

    Edwards, Owen Morgan

    MacNeill, John Gordon Swift

    Bolton, Thomas Dolling

    Emmott, Alfred

    M'Kenna, Reginald

    Brigg, John

    Gourley, Sir Edward Temperley

    M'Leod, John

    Broadhurst, Henry

    Griffith, Ellis J.

    Maddison, Fred.

    Burt, Thomas

    Harwood, George

    Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand

    Caldwell, James

    Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale-

    Montagu, Sir S. (Whitechapel)

    Cawley, Frederick

    Hazell, Walter

    Morgan, J. Lloyd(Carmarthen)

    Charming, Francis Allston

    Holland, William Henry

    Morgan, W. Pritchard (Merth'r

    550

    551

    Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport)

    Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)

    Wilson, Hy. J. (York, W. R.)

    Moss, Samuel

    Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh)

    Wilson, Jos. H (Middlesbrough

    O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

    Soames, Arthur Wellesley

    Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Hudderfld

    Pickard, Benjamin

    Souttar, Robinson

    Woods, Samuel

    Pickersgill, Edward Hare

    Spicer, Albert

    Yoxall, James Henry

    Price, Robert John

    Steadman, William Charles

    Provand, Andrew Dryburgh

    Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)

    TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

    Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

    Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr

    Captain Donelan and Mr. Patrick O'Brien.

    Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

    Ure, Alexander

    Runciman, Walter

    Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

    32. £62,262, to complete the sum for the Supreme Court of Judicature and other Legal Departments in Ireland.
    33. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £64,710, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment
    during the year of March, 31st day of March, 1901, for the salaries, allowances, and expenses of various county court officers, of commissioners, and of magistrates in Ireland, and the expenses of revision."
    The Committee divided:—Ayes, 220; Noes, 63. (Division List No. 272.)

    Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)

    Sandon, Viscount

    Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

    Newdigate, Francis Alexander

    Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles

    Tabot, Rt. Hon. J. G (Oxf'd Univ.

    Nicol, Donald Ninian

    Scott, Charles P. (Leigh)

    Thornton, Percy M.

    O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens

    Seely, Charles Hilton

    Tollemache, Henry James

    Paulton, James Mellor

    Seton-Karr, Henry

    Tomlinson, W. E. Murray

    Penn, John

    Sharpe, William Edward T.

    Tritton, Charles Ernest

    Phillpotts, Captain Arthur

    Shaw-Stewart, M. H.(Renfrew)

    Welby, Lt.-Cl. A. C. E.(Taunton

    Pierpoint, Robert

    Side bottom, William(Derbysh.

    Whiteley, George (Stockport)

    Pilkington, Rich. (Lancs Newtn

    Simeon, Sir Harrington

    Whiteley, H.(Ashton-under-L

    Pollock, Harry Frederick

    Sinclair, Louis (Romford)

    Whitmore, Charles Algernon

    Pretyman, Ernest George

    Skewes-Cox, Thomas

    Williams, Joseph Powell-(Birm

    Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward

    Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch)

    Willoughby de Eresby, Lord

    Purvis, Robert

    Smith, J. Parker (Lanarks.)

    Willox, Sir John Archibald

    Rasch, Major Frederic Carne

    Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

    Wilson, J. W.(Worcestersh, N.)

    Remnant, James Farquharson

    Spencer, Ernest

    Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.)

    Rentoul, James Alexander

    Spicer, Albert

    Wodehouse, Rt. Hon. ER(Bath)

    Richards, Henry Charles

    Stanley, Hon Arthur(Ormskirk

    Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

    Richardson, Sir T. (Hartlep'l)

    Stanley, Edward Jas(Somerset)

    Wrightson, Sir Thomas

    Rickett, J. Compton

    Stephens, Henry Charles

    Wylie, Alexander

    Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W.

    Stirling-Maxwell, Sir J. M.

    Wyndham, George

    Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. Thomson

    Stock, James Henry

    Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy

    Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye

    Strachey, Edward

    Young, Commander (Berks, E.)

    Round, James

    Strauss, Arthur

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

    Royds, Clement Molyueux

    Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley

    Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.

    Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)

    Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier

    NOES.

    Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.

    Emmott, Alfred

    Price, Robert John

    Abraham, William (Rhondda)

    Gourley, Sir Edward T.

    Provand, Andrew Dryburgh

    Asher, Alexander

    Griffith, Ellis J.

    Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

    Ashton, Thomas Gair

    Harwood, George

    Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

    Atherley-Jones, L.

    Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Scale-

    Runciman, Walter

    Billson, Alfred

    Hazell, Walter

    Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)

    Bolton, Thomas Dolling

    Holland, William Henry

    Soames, Arthur Wellesley

    Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur

    Horniman, Frederick John

    Souttar, Robinson

    Brigg, John

    Joicey, Sir James

    Steadman, William Charles

    Broadhurst, Henry

    Lewis, John Herbert

    Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)

    Burt, Thomas

    MacDonnell, Dr. M.A. (Q. C.)

    Thomas, David A. (Merthyr)

    Buxton, Sydney Charles

    MacNeill, John Gordon Swift

    Ure, Alexander

    Caldwell, James

    M'Leod, John

    Wallace, Robert

    Cawley, Frederick

    Maddison, Fred.

    Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

    Channing, Francis Allston

    Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand

    Wilson, Hy. J. (York, W.R.)

    Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal)

    Montagu, Sir S. (Whitechapel)

    Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough)

    Dalziel, James Henry

    Morgan, W. Pritchaid (Merthyr

    Woodhouse, Sir J T(Hudd'rsf'd.

    Dewar, Arthur

    Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport)

    Woods, Samuel

    Doogan, P. C.

    Moss, Samuel

    Yoxall, James Henry

    Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)

    O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

    TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

    Duckworth, James

    Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham)

    Captain Donelan and Mr. Patrick O'Brien.

    Edwards, Owen Morgan

    Pickersgill, Edward Hare

    34. £56,150, to complete the sum for Dublin Metropolitan Police.
    35. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £752,408, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge
    which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, for the expenses of the Royal Irish Constabular."
    The Committee divided:—Ayes, 199; Noes, 72. (Division List No. 273.)

    AYES.

    Allsopp, Hon. George

    Donkin, Richard Sim

    Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick

    Anson, Sir William Reynell

    Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-

    Jenkins, Sir John Jones

    Arrol, Sir William

    Doxford, Sir Wm. Theodore

    Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton

    Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis

    Dyke, Rt. Hon Sir William Hart

    Jones, David Brynmor (Swans.)

    Atkinson, Rt. Eon. John

    Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton

    Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.)

    Bailey, James (Walworth)

    Faber, George Denison

    Kenyon, James

    Balcarres, Lord

    Fellowes, Hn. Ailwyn Edward

    Keswick, William

    Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r

    Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir. J (Manc'r

    Kimber, Henry

    Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds

    Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne

    Lafone, Alfred

    Barnes, Frederic Gorell

    Firbank, Joseph Thomas

    Laurie, Lieut.-General

    Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire)

    Fisher, William Hayes

    Lawrence, Sir E Durning-(Corn

    Beach, Rt. Hn Sir M. H. (Bristol)

    FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose-

    Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool

    Beach, Rt. Hn. W. W. B. (Hants.

    Fitz Wygram, General Sir F.

    Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.)

    Beckett, Ernest William

    Flannery, Sir Fortescue

    Lea, Sir Thomas (Londonderry)

    Bentinck, Lord Henry C.

    Flower, Ernest

    Leese, Sir Joseph F (Accrington)

    Bethell, Commander

    Foster, Colonel (Lancaster)

    Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie

    Bigwood, James

    Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk)

    Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swans.

    Bill, Charles

    Galloway, William Johnson

    Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham

    Blundell, Colonel Henry

    Garfit, William

    Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller

    Brassey, Albert

    Gedge, Sydney

    Lowe, Francis William

    Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John

    Gibbons, J. Lloyd

    Lowles, John

    Brown, Alexander H.

    Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H (City of Lond.

    Loyd, Archie Kirkman

    Bullard, Sir Harry

    Giles, Charles Tyrrell

    Lucas-Shadwell, William

    Butcher, John George

    Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick

    Macartney, W. G. Ellison

    Carlile, William Walter

    Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Eldon

    Macdona, John Gumming

    Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

    Goschen, Rt Hn G J (St.George's

    MacIver, David (Liverpool)

    Cavendish, V. C. W (Derbyshire

    Goschen, George J. (Sussex)

    Maclure, Sir John William

    Cayzer, Sir Charles William

    Goulding, Edward Alfred

    M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)

    Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, E.)

    Green, Walford D (Wednesbury

    M'Kenna, Reginald

    Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)

    Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury)

    M'Killop, James

    Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.

    Greville, Hon. Ronald

    Malcolm, Ian

    Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r)

    Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

    Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J.

    Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry

    Gull, Sir Cameron

    Martin, Richard Biddulph

    Charrington, Spencer

    Guthrie, Walter Murray

    Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F

    Coghill, Douglas Harry

    Halsey, Thomas Frederick

    Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire)

    Cohen, Benjamin Louis

    Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Lord G.

    Melville, Beresford Valentine

    Ceilings, Rt. Hon. Jesse

    Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert W.

    Middlemore, J. Throgmorton

    Colomb, Sir John Charles R.

    Hardy, Laurence

    Milbank, Sir Powlett C. John

    Colston, Chas. Edw. H. A.

    Haslett, Sir James Horner

    Monckton, Edward Philip

    Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth)

    Heath, James

    Monk, Charles James

    Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford)

    Hill, Arthur (Down, West)

    Moon, Edward Robert Pacy

    Corbett, A. C. (Glasgow)

    Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)

    Moore, William (Antrim, N.)

    Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W.

    Hornby, Sir William Henry

    More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire)

    Cotton-Jodrell, Col. E. T. D.

    Houston, R. P.

    Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)

    Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton

    Howard, Joseph

    Morrell, George Herbert

    Curzon, Viscount

    Hudson, George Bickersteth

    Morrison, James A. (Wilts., S.)

    Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham)

    Hughes, Colonel Edwin

    Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford)

    Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

    Hutchinson, Capt. G. W. Grice-

    Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute)

    Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph

    Jackson, Rt. Hn. Wm. Lawies

    Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)

    Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)

    Sandon, Viscount

    Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

    Newdigate, Francis Alexander

    Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles

    Tabot, Rt. Hon. J. G (Oxf'd Univ.

    Nicol, Donald Ninian

    Scott, Charles P. (Leigh)

    Thornton, Percy M.

    O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens

    Seely, Charles Hilton

    Tollemache, Henry James

    Paulton, James Mellor

    Seton-Karr, Henry

    Tomlinson, W. E. Murray

    Penn, John

    Sharpe, William Edward T.

    Tritton, Charles Ernest

    Phillpotts, Captain Arthur

    Shaw-Stewart, M. H.(Renfrew)

    Welby, Lt.-Cl. A. C. E.(Taunton

    Pierpoint, Robert

    Side bottom, William(Derbysh.

    Whiteley, George (Stockport)

    Pilkington, Rich. (Lancs Newtn

    Simeon, Sir Harrington

    Whiteley, H.(Ashton-under-L

    Pollock, Harry Frederick

    Sinclair, Louis (Romford)

    Whitmore, Charles Algernon

    Pretyman, Ernest George

    Skewes-Cox, Thomas

    Williams, Joseph Powell-(Birm

    Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward

    Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch)

    Willoughby de Eresby, Lord

    Purvis, Robert

    Smith, J. Parker (Lanarks.)

    Willox, Sir John Archibald

    Rasch, Major Frederic Carne

    Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

    Wilson, J. W.(Worcestersh, N.)

    Remnant, James Farquharson

    Spencer, Ernest

    Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.)

    Rentoul, James Alexander

    Spicer, Albert

    Wodehouse, Rt. Hon. ER(Bath)

    Richards, Henry Charles

    Stanley, Hon Arthur(Ormskirk

    Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

    Richardson, Sir T. (Hartlep'l)

    Stanley, Edward Jas(Somerset)

    Wrightson, Sir Thomas

    Rickett, J. Compton

    Stephens, Henry Charles

    Wylie, Alexander

    Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W.

    Stirling-Maxwell, Sir J. M.

    Wyndham, George

    Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. Thomson

    Stock, James Henry

    Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy

    Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye

    Strachey, Edward

    Young, Commander (Berks, E.)

    Round, James

    Strauss, Arthur

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

    Royds, Clement Molyueux

    Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley

    Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.

    Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)

    Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier

    NOES.

    Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.

    Emmott, Alfred

    Price, Robert John

    Abraham, William (Rhondda)

    Gourley, Sir Edward T.

    Provand, Andrew Dryburgh

    Asher, Alexander

    Griffith, Ellis J.

    Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

    Ashton, Thomas Gair

    Harwood, George

    Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

    Atherley-Jones, L.

    Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Scale-

    Runciman, Walter

    Billson, Alfred

    Hazell, Walter

    Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)

    Bolton, Thomas Dolling

    Holland, William Henry

    Soames, Arthur Wellesley

    Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur

    Horniman, Frederick John

    Souttar, Robinson

    Brigg, John

    Joicey, Sir James

    Steadman, William Charles

    Broadhurst, Henry

    Lewis, John Herbert

    Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)

    Burt, Thomas

    MacDonnell, Dr. M.A. (Q. C.)

    Thomas, David A. (Merthyr)

    Buxton, Sydney Charles

    MacNeill, John Gordon Swift

    Ure, Alexander

    Caldwell, James

    M'Leod, John

    Wallace, Robert

    Cawley, Frederick

    Maddison, Fred.

    Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

    Channing, Francis Allston

    Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand

    Wilson, Hy. J. (York, W.R.)

    Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal)

    Montagu, Sir S. (Whitechapel)

    Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough)

    Dalziel, James Henry

    Morgan, W. Pritchaid (Merthyr

    Woodhouse, Sir J T(Hudd'rsf'd.

    Dewar, Arthur

    Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport)

    Woods, Samuel

    Doogan, P. C.

    Moss, Samuel

    Yoxall, James Henry

    Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)

    O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

    TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

    Duckworth, James

    Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham)

    Captain Donelan and Mr. Patrick O'Brien.

    Edwards, Owen Morgan

    Pickersgill, Edward Hare

    Allsopp, Hon. George

    Bentinck, Lord Henry C.

    Cavendish, V.C.W.(Derbysh.)

    Anson, Sir William Reynell

    Bethell, Commander

    Cayzer, Sir Charles William

    Arrol, Sir William

    Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.

    Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East)

    Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis

    Bigwood, James

    Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J.(Birm.)

    Atkinson, lit. Hon. John

    Blundell, Colonel Henry

    Chamberlain, J Austen (Worc'r

    Balcarres, Lord

    Brassey, Albert

    Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry

    Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J.(Manch'r

    Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John

    Charrington, Spencer

    Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W (Leeds

    Brown, Alexander H.

    Coghill, Douglas Harry

    Barnes, Frederic Gorell

    Bullard, Sir Harry

    Cohen, Benjamin Louis

    Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol

    Butcher, John George

    Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse

    Beach, Rt. Hn. W. W. B. (Hants

    Carlile, William Walter

    Colomb, Sir J. Charles Ready

    Beckett, Ernest William

    Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

    Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole

    Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth)

    Jenkins, Sir John Jones

    Rentoul, James Alexander

    Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref'd)

    Jessel, Capt. Herbert M.

    Richards, Henry Charles

    Corbett, A. Cameron(Glasgow)

    Kenyon, James

    Richardson, Sir Thos(Hartlep'l

    Cornwallis, Fiennes S. W.

    Keswick, William

    Ridley, Rt. Hon Sir Matthew W.

    Cotton-Jodrell, Col. Ed w. T. D.

    Kimber, Henry

    Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. T.

    Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton

    Lafone, Alfred

    Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye

    Curzon, Viscount

    Laurie, Lieut.-General

    Round, James

    Davies, Sir Horatio D(Chatham

    Lawrence, Sir E Durning-(Corn

    Royds, Clement Molyneux

    Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

    Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)

    Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)

    Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph

    Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.)

    Sandon, Viscount

    Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-

    Lea, Sir Thomas(Londonderry)

    Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles

    Doxford, Sir William Theodore

    Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie

    Seely, Charles Hilton

    Dyke, Rt. Hon Sir William Hart

    Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'ns'a

    Seton-Karr, Henry

    Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton

    Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller

    Sharpe, William Edward T.

    Faber, George Denison

    Lowe, Francis William

    Shaw-Stewart. M. H. (Renfrew)

    Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw.

    Lowles, John

    Sidebottom, William (Derbys.

    Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne

    Loyd, Archie Kirkman

    Simeon, Sir Barrington

    Firbank, Joseph Thomas

    Lucas-Shad well, William

    Sinclair, Louis (Romford)

    Fisher, William Hayes

    Macartney, W. G. Ellison

    Skewes-Cox, Thomas

    FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose-

    Macdona, John Cumming

    Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch)

    Fitz Wygram, General Sir F.

    MacIver, David (Liverpool)

    Smith, James Parker (Lanark)

    Flannery, Sir Fortescue

    Maclure, Sir John William

    Smith, Hon. W. F. D (Strand)

    Flower, Ernest

    M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)

    Spencer, Ernest

    Foster, Colonel (Lancaster)

    M'Killop, James

    Stanley, Hon Arthur(Ormskirk

    Galloway, William Johnson

    Malcolm, Ian

    Stanley, Edw. J. (Somerset)

    Garfit, William

    Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J.

    Stephens, Henry Charles

    Gedge, Sydney

    Martin, Richard Biddulph

    Stirling-Maxwell, Sir J. M.

    Gibbons, J. Lloyd

    Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F.

    Stock, James Henry

    Gibbs, Hn A. G. H. (City of Lund.

    Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire)

    Strauss, Arthur

    Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick

    Melville, Beresford Valentine

    Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley

    Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon

    Middlemore, John T.

    Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier

    Goschen, Rt Hn G J (St. George's

    Monckton, Edward Philip

    Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

    Goschen, George J. (Sussex)

    Moon, Edward Robert Pacy

    Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G.(Oxf'd Univ.

    Goulding, Edward Alfred

    Moore, William (Antrim, N.)

    Thornton, Percy M.

    Green, W. D. (Wednesbury)

    More, Robert J. (Shropshire)

    Tollemache, Henry James

    Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury)

    Morrell, George Herbert

    Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray

    Greville, Hon. Ronald

    Morrison, James A.(Wilts., S.)

    Tritton, Charles Ernest

    Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

    Morton, Arthur H. A.(Deptford

    Welby, Lt-Col. A. C. E (Taunf'n

    Gull, Sir Cameron

    Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute)

    Whiteley, H.(Ashton-under-L.

    Guthrie, Walter Murray

    Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)

    Whitmore, Charles Algernon

    Halsey, Thomas Frederick

    Murray, Col. Wyndham(Bath)

    Williams, J. Powell- (Birm.)

    Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Lord G.

    Newdigate, Francis Alexander

    Willoughby de Eresby, Lord

    Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Rubert W.

    Nicol, Donald Ninian

    Willox, Sir John Archibald

    Hardy, Laurence

    O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torreus

    Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.

    Haslett, Sir James Horner

    Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham)

    Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks.)

    Heath James

    Penn, John

    Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R.(Bath

    Hill, Arthur (Down, West)

    Phillpotts, Captain Arthur

    Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. (Stuart-

    Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)

    Pierpoint, Robert

    Wrightson, Sir Thomas

    Hornby, Sir William Henry

    Pilkington, Rich. (Lancs Newtn

    Wylie, Alexander

    Houston, R. P.

    Pollock, Harry Frederick

    Wyndham, George

    Howard, Joseph

    Pretyman, Ernest George

    Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy

    Hudson, George Bickersteth

    Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward

    Young, Commander (Berks, E.)

    Hughes, Colonel Edwin

    Purvis, Robert

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

    Jackson, Rt. Hon. Win. L.

    Rasch, Major Frederic Carne

    Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.

    Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick

    Remnant, James Farquharson

    NOES.

    Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.)

    Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal)

    Jones, David B. (Swansea)

    Abraham, William (Rhondda)

    Dalziel, James Henry

    Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.)

    Asher, Alexander

    Dewar, Arthur

    Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington)

    Ashton, Thomas Gair

    Doogan, P. C.

    Lewis, John Herbert

    Atherley-Jones, L.

    Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)

    MacDonnell, Dr. M. A. (Qn.'s Co

    Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire)

    Duckworth, James

    MacNeill, John Gordon Swift

    Billson, Alfred

    Edwards, Owen Morgan

    M'Kenna, Reginald

    Bolton, Thomas Dolling

    Emmott, Alfred

    M'Leod, John

    Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur

    Gourley, Sir Edward Temperley

    Maddison, Fred.

    Brigg, John

    Griffith, Ellis J.

    Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand

    Broadhurst, Henry

    Harwood, George

    Montagu, Sir S. (Whitechap'l)

    Burt, Thomas

    Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale-

    Morgan, J. L. (Carmarthen)

    Buxton, Sydney Charles

    Hazell, Walter

    Morgan, W Pritchard (Merthyr

    Caldwell, James

    Holland, William Henry

    Morton, Edw. J.C. (Devonport)

    Cawley, Frederick

    Horniman, Frederick John

    Moss, Samuel

    Channing, Francis Allston

    Joicey, Sir James

    O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

    556

    557

    Pickersgill, Edward Hare

    Soames, Arthur Wellesley

    Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

    Price, Robert John

    Souttar, Robinson

    Whiteley, George (Stockport)

    Provand, Andrew Dryburgh

    Spicer, Albert

    Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)

    Rickett, J. Compton

    Steadman, William Charles

    Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (H'dd'rsfd

    Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

    Strachey, Edward

    Woods, Samuel

    Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

    Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)

    Yoxall, James Henry

    Runciman, Walter

    Thomas, David A. (Merthyr)

    TELLERS FOR THE NOES—

    Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)

    Ure, Alexander

    Captain Donelan and Mr. Patrick O'Brien.

    Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh)

    Wallace, Robert

    36. £74,443, to complete the sum for Prisons, Iceland.
    37. £2,906, to complete the sum for Dundrum Criminal Lunatic Asylum, Ireland.

    Class IV.
    38. £690,318, to complete the sum for Public Education, Scotland.
    39. £2,000, to complete the sum for the National Gallery, etc., Scotland.
    10. £515, to complete the sum for the Endowed Schools Commissioners, Ireland.
    41. £1,079, to complete the sum for the National Gallery of Ireland.
    42. £2,300, to complete the sum for the Queen's Colleges, Ireland.

    Class V.
    43. £200,000, Supplementary sum for Colonial Services.
    Class VI.
    44. £468, to complete the sum for Hospitals and Charities, Ireland.

    Class VII.
    45. £4,191, for Repayments to the Civil Contingencies Fund.
    46. £37,030, for a contribution to the Local Taxation (Ireland) Account.

    ARMY ESTIMATES, 1900–1901.
    47. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum not exceeding £275,000, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge for the Salaries and Miscellaneous Charges of the War Office, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901."
    The Committee divided:—Ayes, 198; Noes, 52. (Division List No. 274.)

    AYES.

    Anson, Sir William Reynell

    Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry

    Garfit, William

    Arrol, Sir William

    Charrington, Spencer

    Gedge, Sydney

    Asher, Alexander

    Coghill, Douglas Harry

    Gibbons, J. Lloyd

    Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis

    Cohen, Benjamin Louis

    Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (City of Lond

    Ashton, Thomas Gair

    Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse

    Gladstone, Rt. Hon. Herb. J.

    Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John

    Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole

    Godson, Sir Augustus Prederick

    Bailey, James (Walworth)

    Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth)

    Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Eldon

    Balcarres, Lord

    Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford)

    Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J. (St. Geo.'s

    Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J.(Manch'r

    Corbett, A. Cameron(Glasgow)

    Goschen, George J. (Sussex)

    Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds)

    Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W.

    Goulding, Edward Alfred

    Barnes, Frederic Gorell

    Cotton-Jodrell, Col. E. T. D.

    Green, W. D. (Wednesbury)

    Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M H (Bristol)

    Cross, Herb. Shepherd(Bolton)

    Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury)

    Beach, Rt. Hn. W. W. B. (Hants

    Curzon, Viscount

    Greville, Hon. Ronald

    Beckett, Ernest William

    Davies Sir Horatio D(Chatham

    Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

    Bentinck, Lord Henry C.

    Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph

    Gull, Sir Cameron

    Bethell, Commander

    Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-

    Halsey, Thomas Frederick

    Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.

    Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)

    Hamilton, Rt. Hn. Lord George

    Bigwood, James

    Doxford, Sir William Theodore

    Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Rbt. Wm.

    Blundell, Colonel Henry

    Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart

    Hardy, Laurence

    Bramsdon, Thomas Arthur

    Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton

    Haslett, Sir James Horner

    Brassey, Albert

    Emmott, Alfred

    Hazell, Walter

    Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John

    Faber, George Denison

    Heath, James

    Brown, Alexander H.

    Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw.

    Hill, Arthur (Down, West)

    Bullard, Sir Harry

    Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne

    Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)

    Carlile, William Walter

    Firbank, Joseph Thomas

    Holland, William Henry

    Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

    Fisher, William Hayes

    Hornby, Sir William Henry

    Cavendish, V.C. W.(Derbysh.)

    FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose-

    Houston, R. P.

    Cayzer, Sir Charles William

    Fitz Wygram, General Sir F.

    Howard, Joseph

    Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East)

    Flower, Ernest

    Hudson, George Bickersteth

    Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)

    Foster, Colonel (Lancaster)

    Hughes, Colonel Edwin

    Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm

    Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk)

    Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies

    Chamberlain, J Austen (Worc'r

    Galloway, William Johnson

    Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick

    Jenkins, Sir John Jones

    Morton, Arthur Hn. A (Deptford)

    Smith, James Parker (Lanarks.

    Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton

    Murray, Rt. Hn A. Graham(Bute

    Spencer, Ernest

    Joicey, Sir James

    Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)

    Spicer, Albert

    Kenyon, James

    Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)

    Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk

    Keswick, William

    Newdigate, Francis Alexander

    Stanley, Edward J.(Somerset)

    Kimber, Henry

    Nicol, Donald Ninian

    Stephens, Henry Charles

    Lafone, Alfred

    O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens

    Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.

    Laurie, Lieut. -General

    Penn, John

    Stock, James Henry

    Lawrence, Sir E Durning-(Corn

    Phillpotts, Captain Arthur

    Strauss, Arthur

    Lawrence, Wm. P. (Liverpool)

    Pierpoint, Robert

    Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley

    Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.)

    Pilkington, R. (Lancs, Newton)

    Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier

    Lea, Sir Thomas (Londonderry)

    Pollock, Harry Frederick

    Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

    Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington

    Pretyman, Ernest George

    Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G (Oxf'd Univ.

    Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie

    Pryce-Jones, Lt. -Col. Edw.

    Thornton, Percy M.

    Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swans.

    Purvis, Robert

    Tollemache, Henry James

    Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller

    Remnant, James Farquharson

    Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray

    Lowe, Francis William

    Rentoul, James Alexander

    Tritton, Charles Ernest

    Lowles, John

    Richards, Henry Charles

    Wallace, Robert

    Lucas-Shadwell, William

    Richardson, Sir T. (Hartlep'l)

    Welby, Lt-Col. A. C. E. (Tauntn

    Macartney, W. G. Ellison

    Rickett, J. Compton

    Whiteley, H.(Ashton-under-L.

    Macdona, John Cumming

    Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir Matthew W

    Williams, Jos. Powell- (Birm.

    Maclure, Sir John William

    Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. Thomson

    Willoughby de Eresby, Lord

    M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)

    Rollit, Sir Albeit Kaye

    Willox, Sir John Archibald

    M'Killop, James

    Royds, Clement Molyneux

    Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.)

    Malcolm, Ian

    Runciman, Walter

    Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks.)

    Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J.

    Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)

    Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R.(Bath

    Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F.

    Sandon, Viscount

    Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart-

    Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire)

    Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles

    Wrightson, Sir Thomas

    Melville, Beresford Valentine

    Seely, Charles Hilton

    Wylie, Alexander

    Middlemore, J. Throgmorton

    Sharpe, William Edward T.

    Wyndham, George

    Monckton, Edward Philip

    Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew)

    Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy

    Moore, William (Antrim, N.)

    Sidebottom, William(Derbysh.

    Young, Commander (Berks, E.)

    More, R. Jasper (Shropshire)

    Sinclair, Louis (Romford)

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

    Morrell, George Herbert

    Skewes-Cox, Thomas

    Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.

    Morrison, James A. (Wilts., S.)

    Smith, A. H. (Christchurch)

    NOES.

    Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.

    Gourley, Sir Edward Temperley

    Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

    Abraham, William (Rhondda)

    Griffith, Ellis J.

    Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

    Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire)

    Harwood, George

    Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)

    Billson, Alfred

    Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale-

    Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh)

    Bolton, Thomas Dolling

    Horniman, Frederick John

    Soames, Arthur Wellesley

    Brigg, John

    Jones, David Brynmor (Sw'nsea

    Steadman, William Charles

    Burt, Thomas

    Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.

    Sullivan, Donald (Westmeath)

    Caldwell, James

    MacDonnell, Dr M A (Queen'sC

    Thomas, David A. (Merthyr)

    Cawley, Frederick

    MacNeill, John Gordon Swift

    Ure, Alexander

    Channing, Francis Allston

    M'Kenna, Reginald

    Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

    Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready

    M'Leod, John

    Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)

    Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal)

    Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand

    Woodhouse, Sir J (Huddersf'd

    Dalziel, James Henry

    Morgan, W Pritchard (Merthyr

    Woods, Samuel

    Dewar, Arthur

    Moss, Samuel

    Yoxall, James Henry

    Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

    O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

    Donelan, Captain A.

    O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

    TELLERS FOR THE AYES—

    Doogan, P. C.

    Pickersgill, Edward Hare

    Mr. Price and Mr. Herbert Lewis.

    Duckworth, James

    Provand, Andrew Dryburgh

    Edwards, Owen Morgan

    Rasch, Major Frederic Carne

    Resolutions agreed to.

    48. £204,000, Ordnance Factories.
    Resolutions to be reported To-morrow.

WAYS AND MEANS.
Considered in Committee.
(In the Committee.)
Resolved, That towards making good the Supply granted to Her Majesty for the service of the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, the sum of £95,234,796 be granted out of the Con-
560
solidated Fund of the United Kingdom.—(Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer.)
Resolution to be reported To-morrow.

SUPPLEMENTARY WAR LOAN BILL.
Considered in Committee.
(In the Committee.)
[Mr. J. W. LOWTHER (Cumberland, Penrith) in the Chair.]
MR. DALZIELsaid that he did not think the Government ought to ask them to discuss the

561
Bill in detail at that hour, and he would move to report progress.
*THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Sir M. Hicks BEACH,): I hope the hon. Member will not press his objection. It was understood that I should before the Third Reading of the Bill lay a full statement on the Table of the House. I will undertake to do so. It is very important that I should get the Rill through Committee to-night, for I have to make arrangements for the issue of part of the loan as soon as possible.
Bill reported, without Amendment; to be read the third time upon Monday next.

NAVY AND ARMY EXPENDITURE, 1898–9.
Resolutions reported:—
That it appears by the Navy Appropriation Account for the year ended the 31st day of March, 1899, and the statement appended thereto, as follows, viz.:
(a.) That the gross expenditure for certain Naval Services exceeded the estimate of such expenditure by a total sum of £637,516 8s. 3d., as shown in Column No. 1 of the Schedule hereto appended; while the gross expenditure for other Navy Services fell short of the estimate of such expenditure by a total sum of £825,980 6s. 6d., as shown in Column No. 2 of the said appended Schedule, so that the gross actual expenditure for the whole of the Navy Services fell short of the gross estimated expenditure by the net sum of £188,463 18s. 3d.

SCHEDULE.

Number of Vote.

Navy Services 1898–99. Votes.

Gross Expenditure.

Appropriations in Aid.

Excesses of Actual over Estimated Gross Expenditure.

Surpluses of Estimated over Actual Gross Expenditure.

Deficiencies of Actual as compared with Estimated Receipts.

Surpluses of Actual as compared with Estimated Receipts.

1.

2

3.

4.

£

s.

d.

£

s.

d.

£

s.

d.

£

s.

d.

1

…

Wages, etc., of Officers, Seamen, and Boys, Coast Guard, and Royal Marines

…

52,038

12

0

2,039

1

1

2

…

Victualling and Clothing for the Navy

95,209

14

4

…

…

3,698

12

11

(b.) That the receipts in aid of certain Navy Services fell short of the estimate of such receipts by a total sum of £6,853 13s. 5d., as shown in Column No. 3 of the said appended Schedule; while the receipts in aid of other Navy Services exceeded the estimate of such receipts by a total sum of £65,914 3s. 3d., as shown in Column No. 4 of the said appended Schedule; so that the total actual receipts in aid of the Grants for Navy Services exceeded the total estimated receipts by the net sum of £59,060 9s. 10d.
(c.) That the resulting differences between the Exchequer Grants for Navy Services and the net expenditure are as follows, viz.:—

£

s.

d.

Total Surpluses

…

825,325

12

7

Total Deficits

…

577,801

4

6

Net Surplus

…

£247,524

8

1

That the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury have temporarily authorised the application, in reduction of the net charge on Exchequer Grants for certain Navy Services, of the whole of the sums received in excess of the estimated Appropriations in Aid, in respect of the same Services; and have also temporarily authorised the application of so much of the said total surpluses on certain Grants for Navy Services as is necessary to cover the said total deficits on other Grants for Navy Services.
1. "That the application of such sums be sanctioned."

Number of Vote.

Navy Services, 1898–99. Votes.

Gross Expenditure.

Appropriations in Aid.

Excesses of Actual over Estimated Gross Expenditure.

Surpluses of Estimated over Actual Gross Expenditure.

Deficiencies of Actual as compared with Estimated Receipts.

Surpluses of Actual as compared with Estimated Receipts.

1.

2.

3.

4.

£

s.

d.

£

s.

d.

£

s.

d.

£

S.

d.

3

…

Medical Establishments and Services

…

551

11

11

…

636

9

6

4

…

Martial Law

719

3

2

…

…

40

8

4

5

…

Educational Services

…

1,422

8

6

…

161

11

9

6

…

Scientific Services

2,897

18

0

…

…

5,423

0

7

7

…

Royal Naval Reserves

…

13,683

11

1

…

188

13

1

8

…

Shipbuilding, Repairs, Maintenance, etc.:

Sec. 1

…

Personnel

191,318

6

8

…

12

7

See. 2

…

Materiel

192,715

5

7

…

…

43,268

14

0

Sec. 3

…

Contract Work

…

749,758

9

6

2,053

13

10

9

…

Naval Armaments

…

8,525

13

6

73

15

11

10

…

Works, Buildings, and Repairs at Home and Abroad

91,241

9

9

…

…

,10,752

7

3

11

…

Miscellaneous Effective Services

32,862

19

2

…

…

1,553

16

2

12

…

Admiralty Office

500

5

8

…

…

1

17

9

13

…

Half-pay, Reserved and Retired Pay

18,169

4

5

…

954

1

6

14

…

Naval and Marine Pensions, Gratuities, and Compassionate Allowances

4,491

9

11

…

1,246

8

6

15

…

Civil Pensions and Gratuities

4,633

1

5

…

…

188

11

11

16

…

Additional Naval Force for Service in AustralasianWaters

42

16

0

…

486

0

0

Amount written off as irrecoverable

2,654

14

2

637,516

8

3

825,980

6

6

6,853

13

5

65,914

3

3

Net Surplus, £188,463 18 3

Net Surplus,

£59,060

9

10

Surplus surrendered to the Exchequer

£247,524

8

1

That it appears by the Army Appropriation Account for the year ended the 31st day of March, 1899 (as corrected by the Second Report of the Committee of Public Accounts of the present session), and the statement appended thereto as follows, viz.:—
(a.) That the gross expenditure for certain Army Services exceeded the esti-
564
mate of such expenditure by a total sum of £268,594 1s. 9d., as shown in Column No. 1 of the Schedule hereto appended; while the gross expenditure for other Army Services fell short of the estimate of such expenditure by a total sum of £100,615 14s. 2d., as shown in Column No. 2 of the said appended Schedule; so that the gross actual expenditure for the

565
whole of the Army services exceeded the gross estimated expenditure by the net sum of £167,978 7s. 7d.
(b.) That the receipts in aid of certain Army Services fell short of the estimate of such receipts by a total sum of £48,828 14s. 6d. as shown in Column No. 3 of the said appended Schedule; while the receipts in aid of the other Army Services exceeded the estimate of such receipts by a total sum of £226,126 0s. 9d., as shown in Column No. 4 of the said appended Schedule; so that the total actual receipts in aid of the Grants for Army Services exceeded the total estimated receipts by the net sum of £177,297 6s. 3d.
(c.) That the resulting differences between the Exchequer Grants for Army Services and the net expenditure are as follows, viz.:—

SCHEDULE.

No. of Vote.

Army Services, 1898–99. Votes.

Gross Expenditure.

Appropriations in Aid.

Excesses of Actual over Estimated Gross Expenditure.

Surpluses of Estimated over Actual Gross Expenditure.

Deficiencies of Actual as compared with Estimated Receipts.

Surpluses of Actual as compared with Estimated Receipts.

1.

2.

3.

4.

£

s.

d.

£

s.

d.

£

s.

d.

£

s.

d.

1

Pay, etc., of Army (General Stall, Regiments, Reserve, and Departments)

29,358

10

11

…

…

100,529

17

8

2

Medical Establishments: Pay, etc.

35,054

5

1

…

55

13

11

3

Militia: Pay, Extra Pay, Bounty, etc

…

6,354

14

6

319

5

8

4

Yeomanry Cavalry: Pay and Allowances.

1,489

17

9

…

…

1

8

10

5

Volunteer Corps: Pay and Allowances

…

1,840

2

1

…

743

18

2

6

Transport and Remounts

119,933

3

0

…

…

9,950

19

8

7

Provisions, Forage, and other Supplies

…

45,524

2

1

…

22,810

6

0

8

Clothing Establishments and Services

74,108

15

0

…

…

8,251

0

11

9

Warlike and other Stores: Supply and Repair

…

17,716

17

6

…

58,131

3

11

10

Works, Buildings, and Repairs: Cost, including Staff for Engineer Services

1,872

14

3

…

48 384

14

2

£

s.

d.

Total Surpluses

…

278,806

12

5

Total Deficits

…

269,487

13

9

Net Surplus

…

£9,318

18

8

That by a Vote of Parliament during the present session (House of Commons Paper No. 90, of 1900) a further sum of £100 has been granted for the expenditure of the year 1898–9, and the appropriation of additional receipts in aid of such expenditure has been sanctioned to the amount of £168,070 2s. 6d.
That the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury have temporarily authorised the application of so much of the said total surpluses on certain Grants for Army Services as is necessary to cover the said total deficits on other Grants for Army Services.
2. "That the application of such sums be sanctioned."

No. of Vote.

Army Services, 1898–99 Votes.

Gross Expenditure.

Appropriations in Aid.

Excesses of Actual over Estimated Gross Expenditure.

Surpluses of Estimated over Actual Gross Expenditure.

Deficiencies of Actual as compared with Estimated Receipts.

Surpluses of Actual as compared with Estimated Receipts.

1.

2.

3.

4.

£

s.

d.

£

s.

d.

£

s.

d.

£

s.

d.

11

Establishments for Military Education

…

2,332

10

4

…

2,063

8

1

12

Miscellaneous Effective Services

404

5

5

…

…

53

16

6

13

War Office: Salaries and Miscellaneous Charges

…

1,815

12

7

…

347

4

11

14

Non-effective Charges for Officers, etc.

…

20,619

8

5

…

19,327

0

0

15

Non-effective Charges for Men, etc.

…

4,412

6

8

…

3,915

16

1

16

Superannuation, Compensation, and Compassionate Allowances

6,132

0

7

…

69

0

9

Balances irrecoverable

240

9

9

268,594

1

9

100,615

14

2

48,828

14

6

226,126

0

9

Add Excess Vote

…

100

0

0

100,715

14

2

Net Deficit,

£167,878

7

7

Net Surplus,

£177,297

6

3

Net Surplus

£9,418 18 8

—(Mr. Hanbury.)

PROHIBITION OF EXPORTATION OF ARMS BILL [Lords].
As amended, considered; Bill read the third time, and passed, with Amendments.
TRAMWAYS (IRELAND) ACTS AMENDMENT BILL.
As amended, considered; Bill read the third time, and passed.

MEMBERS OF LOCAL AUTHORITIES RELIEF BILL [Lords.]
Considered in Committee, and reported, without amendment; road the third time, and passed, without amendment.
In pursuance of the Order of the House of the 16th day of July last, Mr. Speaker adjourned the House without Question put.
Adjourned at five minutes after One of the clock

PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS.
  SHEFFIELD CORPORATION BILL [H.L.]
  Commons Amendments considered, and agreed to.
  LONDON, WALTHAMSTOW, AND EPPING FOREST RAILWAY (ABANDONMENT) BILL.
  Reported from the Select Committee without amendment.
  PRIVATE AND PROVISIONAL ORDER CONFIRMATION BILLS.
  Ordered that Standing Orders Nos.143, 143A, and 144 be suspended for the
  CLONTARF URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL BILL.
  The Queen's consent signified; Bill read 3a (according to Order), and passed.
  DUBLIN CORPORATION BILL.
  Read 3a (according to Order); Amendments made; Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.
PLYMOUTH, STOREHOUSE, AND DEVONPORT TRAMWAYS BILL.
  LONDON COUNTY COUNCIL (IMPROVEMENTS) BILL.
  Read 3a, with the Amendments; further Amendments made; Bills passed, and returned to the Commons.
NORTH METROPOLITAN ELECTRIC POWER SUPPLY BILL.
  SOUTHPORT AND LYTHAM TRAMROAD BILL.

    HUDDERSFIELD CORPORATION TRAMWAYS BILL.
    LONDON COUNTY TRAMWAYS (No. 1) BILL.
    LONDON COUNTY COUNCIL (GENERAL POWERS) BILL.
    Read 3a, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.

    LONDON UNITED TRAMWAYS BILL.
    Read 3a, with the Amendments; further Amendments made; Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.
GREAT NORTHERN RAILWAY (IRELAND) BILL.
  ALEXANDRA PARK BILL.
  Read 3a, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.
  ROCHDALE CORPORATION BILL.
  Read 3a, with the Amendments; further Amendments made; Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 4) BILL.
  LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 15) BILL.

    ABERDEEN POLICE AND IMPROVEMENT BILL.
    BAKER STREET AND WATERLOO RAILWAY BILL.
    BRADFORD CORPORATION BILL.
    CHARING CROSS AND STRAND ELECTRICITY SUPPLY BILL.
    CITY OF LONDON (VARIOUS POWERS) BILL.
    CROYDON TRAMWAYS AND IMPROVEMENTS BILL.
    CUMBERLAND COUNTY COUNCIL (BRIDGES) BILL.
    DURHAM (COUNTY OF) ELECTRIC POWER SUPPLY BILL.
    EXETER CORPORATION BILL.
    FARNWORTH URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL BILL.
    Returned from the Commons with the Amendments agreed to.

HALIFAX CORPORATION BILL.
  LANCASHIRE ELECTRIC POWER BILL.

    LANCASTER CORPORATION BILL.
    LIVERPOOL CORPORATION BILL.
    LONDON COUNTY TRAMWAYS (No. 2) BILL.
    MARKET WEIGHTON DRAINAGE AND NAVIGATION BILL.
    NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE ELECTRIC SUPPLY BILL.
    OLDHAM CORPORATION BILL.
    RICKMANSWORTH AND UXBRIDGE VALLEY WATER BILL.
    SOUTH LANCASHIRE TRAMWAYS BILL.
    Returned from the Commons with the Amendments agreed to.

WANDSWORTH AND PUTNEY GAS BILL.
  WEST BROMWICH CORPORATION BILL.
    WEST HAM CORPORATION BILL.
    Returned from the Commons with the Amendments agreed to.
GREAT SOUTHERN AND WESTERN AND WATERFORD, LIMERICK, AND WESTERN RAILWAY COMPANIES AMALGAMATION BILL [H.L.]
  GREAT SOUTHERN AND WESTERN AND WATERFORD AND CENTRAL IRELAND RAILWAY COMPANIES AMALGAMATION BILL [H.L.]
  Returned from the Commons agreed to.
TRAMWAYS ORDERS CONFIRMATION (No. 3) BILL [H.L.]
  TRAMWAYS ORDERS CONFIRMATION (No. 4) BILL [H.L.]
  Returned from the Commons agreed to, with Amendments. The said Amendments to be considered To-morrow.
CALEDONIAN RAILWAY BILL [H.L.]
  MARGATE CORPORATION BILL [H.L.]
    MIDLAND GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY OF IRELAND BILL [H.L.]
    Returned from the Commons agreed to, with Amendments. The said Amendments considered, and agreed to.
MORLEY CORPORATION BILL [H.L.]
  SOUTH EASTERN AND LONDON, CHATHAM, AND DOYER RAILWAYS BILL [H.L.]
  Returned from the Commons agreed to, with Amendments.
TRAMWAYS PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 5) BILL.
  ELECTRIC LIGHTING PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 10) BILL.
  Read 3a (according to Order), with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.
RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.
  LANDS AND HERITAGES (SCOTLAND).
  Return respecting. Laid before the House (pursuant to Order of the 26th October last), and to be printed. (NO. 221.)
  ARMY (MILITIA).
  Regulations for the competitive examination of Militia candidates for commissions in the Army in September next.
  BOARD OF EDUCATION.
  Statement in explanation of draft of an Order in Council for transferring to and making exercisable by the Board of Education certain powers of the Charity Commissioners.
  TREATY SERIES (No. 16), 1900.
  Agreement between the United Kingdom and Siam relative to the Registration of British subjects in Siam; signed at Bangkok, 29th November, 1899.

  TRADE REPORTS (ANNUAL SERIES).
  No. 2489. Germany (Bavaria).
  No. 2493. Bulgaria.
  No. 2494. France (Martinique).
  No. 2495. Portugal (Chinde).
  No. 2496. Italy (Lecce).

  LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD.
  Twenty-ninth Annual Report, 1899–1900.
  Supplement containing the Report of the Medical Officer, for 1899–1900.

  EVICTIONS (IRELAND).
  Return of Evictions in Ireland, for the quarter ended 30th June, 1900.
  TRAMWAY AND GAS AND WATER ORDERS.
  Report by the Board of Trade of their proceedings under the Tramways Act. 1870, and the Gas and Waterworks Facilities Act, 1870, during the Session of 1900.
  BOILER EXPLOSIONS.
  Report to the Secretary of the Board of Trade upon the working of the Boiler Explosions Acts, 1882 and 1890; with appendices (in continuation of Parliamentary Pamper [C.—9486]).

  MERCHANT SHIPPING ACT, 1894.
  Return of all British ships ordered by the Board of Trade or its officers, during the period from 1st July, 1899, to 30th June, 1900, to be provisionally detained as unsafe by reason of the defective condition of their hulls, equipments, or machinery, or by reason of overloading, or improper loading, in pursuance of the provisions of Section 459 of the Act, giving the names of the owners of those ships which have been dismantled, broken up, or converted into hulks, etc.; also of all foreign ships ordered to be provisionally detained during the same period as

  389
  unsafe by reason of overloading or improper loading, in pursuance of the provisions of Section 462 of the same Act; together with summaries showing respectively the total number of ships ordered to be detained as unsafe, from 1st July, 1899, to 30th June, 1900, and since the 1st October, 1876, distinguishing between those cases in which the ships were found safe or unsafe (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper [C.—9427]).

  MERCHANT SEAMEN.
  Report of a Committee appointed by the Board of Trade on the question of continuous discharge certificates for seamen; with minutes of evidence, appendix, and index.

  STATISTICS.
  I. Statistical Abstract for the United Kingdom in each of the last fifteen years, from 1885 to 1899. Forty-seventh Number.
  II. Statistical Abstract for the Colonial and other Possessions of the United Kingdom in each of the last fifteen years, from 1885 to 1899. Thirty-seventh Number.

  RAILWAYS.
  General Report to the Board of Trade on the capital, traffic, and expenditure of the railway companies of the United Kingdom, for the year 1899.
  BOARD OF TRADE (LABOUR DEPARTMENT) (WAGES AND HOURS OF LABOUR).
  Report relating to changes in rates of wages and hours of labour in the United Kingdom in 1899; with statistical tables.
  BOARD OF AGRICULTURE.
  Annual Report on the distribution of grants for agricultural education and research in the year 1899–1900; with statements respecting the several institutions aided and the experiments conducted.
  QUEEN'S COLLEGE, GALWAY.
  Annual Report of the President, for the Session 1899–1900.
  LUNACY (IRELAND).
  Forty-ninth Report for 1899 (with appendices), of the Inspectors of Lunatics in Ireland.
  CRIMINAL AND JUDICIAL STATISTICS (IRELAND).
  Part 1: Criminal Statistics for the year 1899.

  PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND).
  Sixty-eighth Annual Report of Commissioners of Public Works in Ireland, with appendices, for the year ended 31st March, 1900.
  Presented (by Command), and ordered to lie on the Table.

  Ninth General Annual Report by the Board of Trade under Section 29 of the Companies (Winding-up) Act, 1890.

  BANKRUPTCY.
  Seventeenth General Annual Report by the Board of Trade.
  Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and ordered to lie on Table.

  DEATH OF HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS THE DUKE OF SAXE-COBUEG AND GOTHA.
  THE PRIME MINISTER AND SECRETARY OF STATE for FOREIGN AFFAIRS (The Marquees of Salisbury): My Lords, I have again to ask your attention to a matter outside the ordinary business of the House—a matter of sad and melancholy interest. It is to ask you to pass a vote of condolence to Her Most Gracious Majesty on the lamentable and unexpected death of the Duke of Saxe-Coburg; and also to pass a vote of condolence to the Duchess, whom he loved so much, and who was so deeply respected in this country. My Lords, this case of condolence differs from that which I had to submit to you the other day, in that it has a special interest for this country and for these Houses of Parliament. As in the case of the King of Italy, we have to mourn the loss of a Prince of high merit and of great popularity in this country and in his adopted country during the short time he held the position of ruler there. He was a man who stood high in the profession to which he belonged—a profession which is the most honoured of all among us—and who had an influence and a reputation in that profession which was well earned by his capacity. For this and for many other

  391
  personal reasons his loss will he deeply felt. But to us there is another and a closer call upon our sympathy, in that the bereavement affects the Sovereign who has been more beloved than any other who has sat on the Throne of this realm. We have to offer our condolence to the Queen on this lamentable loss. In doing so we assure her that we are fully sensible of the loss which she has sustained in the valuable life which has been taken away from her, that her sorrows in these matters are our sorrows, her loss is our loss, and that we submit to Her Majesty the respectful expression of our homage and our deep sympathy, assuring her that in all matters concerning herself and her family our feelings are ever in attendance upon her, over wishful for her welfare, ever grieved at her sorrow; and we earnestly hope that she will lie sustained in this great loss, and continue with unchecked vigour and power to exercise that influence which she has exerted for so long with such splendid results for the prosperity, the honour, and well-being of this country.
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY: My Lords, I rise to second the motion which has been made by the noble Marquess. I can only echo what he has said with regard to the late Duke of Saxe-Coburg. He was a man who was not merely a conspicuous figure in the Naval service because he was one of the Royal Family; but by universal testimony he was a man who, in any ease, would have occupied a very high position in our Navy, having been, as I am assured by the very best judges, one of the most able and capable officers who served in that noble service.
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: Hear, hear!
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY: But the late Duke of Edinburgh—as I more naturally call him—was not only when on service with the Fleet a most able and efficient officer, but he also devoted himself to the Navy in other capacities. My noble friend Lord Northbrook, who could not be here to-night, reminds me that during the time that he held the post of First Lord of the Admiralty the noble Duke then held the post of Admiral of the Naval Reserve, and in that capacity, my noble friend assures mo, he rendered most admirable administrative services in
  392
  settling some very difficult questions that arose at the Board of Admiralty and the Board of Trade, and subsequently he presided over a very important Committee which made a Report of great value upon the subject of pensions for widows of seamen. I mention that only to show that the late Duke was unsparing of his time in the public service, and that whatever question ho dealt with he dealt with it with the greatest ability and the greatest devotion to the service of which he was an ornament. My Lords, I must express my deep agreement with the noble Marquess in the words of condolence which he has used with respect to Her Majesty the Queen. That is a feeling which is deep in the hearts of all of her subjects, and those of us who have themselves suffered those sorrows know how deep her sympathy has been with any of her subjects in that position; and she may rest assured that, not only in this House, but throughout the country, the deepest f sympathy is felt with her in this great sorrow. I second the motion.
  Moved, "That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty to express the deep concern of this House at the great loss which Her Majesty has sustained by the death of His Royal Highness the Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Duke of Edinburgh, second son of Her Majesty the Queen, and to condole with Her Majesty on this melancholy occasion; to assure Her Majesty that this House will ever feel the warmest interest in whatever concerns Her Majesty's domestic relations, and to declare the ardent wishes of this House for the happiness of Her Majesty and Her family."—(The Marquess of Salisbury.)
  On Question, agreed to, nemine dissentients. Ordered that the said Address be presented to Her Majesty by the Lords with White Staves.
  Moved, "That this House do condole with Her Royal and Imperial Highness the Duchess of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Duchess of Edinburgh, on the great loss which she has sustained by the death of His Royal Highness the Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Duke of Edinburgh."—(The Marquess of Salisbury.)
  On Question, agreed to, nemine dissentiente.

  OIL IN TOBACCO BILL.
  Returned from the Commons with the Amendment agreed to.
ANCIENT MONUMENTS PROTECTION BILL.
  MONEY-LENDING BILL [H.L.]
  Returned from the Commons agreed to, with Amendments; the said Amendments to be printed; and to be considered on Monday next, (No. 219.)
  VOLUNTEERS BILL [H.L.]
  Returned from the Commons agreed to, with Amendments; the said Amendments to be printed, and to be considered To-morrow. (No. 220.)
POST OFFICE SITES BILL.
  AGRICULTURAL HOLDINGS BILL.
  Amendments reported (according to Order). Then Standing Order No. XXXIX. considered (according to Order), and dispensed with; Bill road 3a, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.

  COMPANIES BILL.
  [Second Reading.]
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  THE LORD CHANCELLOR (The Earl of HALSBURY): My Lords, I beg to move the Second Reading of this Bill. Most of your Lordships are fairly familiar with the particulars of the Bill, as it has already been before a Select Committee of your Lordships' House. I think that in its main provisions the Bill has not been greatly altered, but I may say that when the Bill reaches Committee I shall call attention to those parts of the Bill as to which differences exist. Some of these differences I shall ask your Lordships to consider in Committee, and I therefore shall reserve my remarks until that occasion. With respect to some of the Amendments which have been inserted in the other House I shall ask your Lordships to agree with the Commons in their Amendments, but with regard to one or two of them I am afraid I shall be obliged to ask your Lordships to insist upon your own view of what is appropriate legislation on the subject. While on the one hand there has been an effort to make it less possible
  394
  for fraudulent companies to be initiated, there has also been an effort to get rid of those parts of the Bill which were calculated to work unjustly against people of substance. I think the disappearance of what I may call the penalising clauses of the Bill is a great improvement. Disaster has often arisen through joint stock companies commencing business without sufficient capital, and it is now made a condition of their being permitted to commence business that a certain portion of capital should be subscribed, so that at all events they should be able to start with a reasonable and sufficient capital. There are also provisions in the Bill, with which your Lordships are familiar, which require that directors of companies should be properly qualified, and that they should be responsible not only for mistakes and errors, but for gross misconduct; but no director need be frightened that any new or drastic law is being enacted against him, for a director who reasonably performs his duty to the best of his ability will be safe.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read a second time."—(The Lord Chancellor.)
  LORD DAVEY: My Lords, I felt some regret at first at the late period of the session at which this Bill has come up to your Lordships from another place, because I was afraid, from what I saw in the ordinary sources of information, that great changes had been made in the Bill in the other House, and I thought it was only right that your Lordships, after the attention you had bestowed on the Bill, should have ample opportunity of considering those Amendments. But, looking through the Bill as it has come back to us, I entirely agree with the noble and learned Lord that the alterations which have been made are not very material, and, in some cases, I am bound to admit, they are unimportant. I feel confident, therefore, that your Lordships will be able to deal with the Bill in the short period remaining of this session. This Bill is by no means an ideal measure, and I am too old to think that it will make any very great difference. So long as there are people who will insist on investing their money in concerns about which they know little or nothing, and without making ample inquiry, I do not think it possible, even if

  395
  it were the office of legislation to do so, for legislation to protect them against their own mistakes. All the Legislature can do, and I suppose this Bill will do that in a very great measure, is to give people who invest their money in concerns of this character the means of acquiring information about them, if they choose to avail themselves of it. You cannot give them good sense; you cannot give them judgment or discretion; but you can, to a certain extent, place at their command the means of information if they like to avail themselves of it. The Bill contains three provisions which I regard as most important. The first is the requirement placed upon every company which invites the public to take its shares to state the minimum amount of subscription upon which the directors will go to allotment. It will be within your Lordships' knowledge that people acquainted with this class of business are unanimous in affirming that one of the greatest evils is this. A company asks for subscriptions amounting to a large sum, say £100,000, for the purpose of carrying on some industrial enterprise; the people who subscribe think they are subscribing to a company which will have a capital of that amount, but, owing to the public not responding, subscriptions are only received to the extent of, say, £10,000 or £15,000; and as the law stands it is in the power of directors to allot to the people who supposed they were subscribing to a capital of the dimensions I have suggested, and who therefore find themselves landed in a company which has a wholly insufficient capital with which to carry out its proposed enterprise. The provision in this Bill requiring directors to state the minimum subscription on which they will go to allotment will go a long way towards preventing what is admittedly a serious evil in the present law. The second provision, which I think is a most valuable one, is the registration of mortgages and charges. This Bill requires that all mortgages and charges, which are usually created by a company in the form of debentures, shall be registered at the Joint Stock Companies' office—up to the present there has been no requirement of that kind—and that they shall be registered within a limited time after they are created. The third provision to which I attach importance is the unveiling of the real vendor and the abolition of the nominal vendor. Your
  396
  Lordships are aware that what is called—and it has become a technical phrase—the "nominal vendor" plays a large part in the drama of bringing out a company. The real vendor sells his property to a syndicate for a certain sum. The syndicate proposes to form a company and to sell the property to the company at a largely enhanced price, but, in order to keep themselves in the background, and in order to conceal from those who subscribe for the shares the amount at which the property is being sold by the person really entitled to it, they put forward a person as the nominal vendor who has no interest in the matter, and this shadow figures on the prospectus as the vendor of the property. It is, therefore, impossible for the person reading the prospectus to know that the property first came from the real vendor, for, say, £100,000, and that £50,000 had been added to it for the benefit of some intermediate individual. That is a subject very difficult to deal with, and it has engaged the attention for some time of members of a Select Committee appointed by both Houses of Parliament. Though it is not dealt with in this Bill in a way which I think will be completely successful, I do not know a better way in which it could be dealt with, and if this Bill contained only these three provisions it would be well worth passing. The clauses dealing with the issuing of prospectuses are somewhat cumbersome, and many people think—I believe there is some ground for the fear—that they will be the means of overloading the prospectus. Speaking for myself, I think it would have been better to have had one clause only saying what you mean—namely, that it should be the duty of those who frame and issue prospectuses to use the best means at their command for stating not only with accuracy, but with fulness and clearness, everything material for the intended investor to know. That subject was discussed before the Select Committee of your Lordships' House, who were opposed to any general provision of that kind being inserted. Therefore I shall not press the point upon your Lordships' attention. The effect of such a clause would be to make directors or others who issue prospectuses responsible not only for actual fraud and misstatements, but for neglecting to state with fulness and clearness everything which it is material for those who invest

  397
  their money in the concern to know. The courts are perfectly competent to deal with cases of fraud—they do not want any stronger powers than they have at present; but as the law stands they have no power to deal with cases in which essential particulars are not stated with fulness and accuracy. I have had an opportunity, through the courtesy of the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack, of seeing the Amendments which he proposes to move in Committee, and I think they are such as your Lordships will lie disposed to adopt. I will only say, in conclusion, that there is one clause which I regret very much indeed has been omitted from the Bill in the other House. The clause to which I refer was omitted by Mr. Ritchie, who was in charge of the Bill, and its object was to give certain preference to the trade creditors of a company in the case of a winding-up. I propose, with your Lordships' permission, to move the reinsertion of the clause in Committee, when I shall have a better opportunity of explaining the exact language and effect of it. The small extent to which the Bill has been altered in the House of Commons is, I think, a great testimony to the care and trouble which the members of the Select Committee of your Lordships' House devoted to the subject.
  On Question, agreed to. Bill read 2a accordingly.
  Standing Order No. XXXIX. considered (according to Order), and dispensed with; Bill committed to a Committee of the Whole House forthwith.
  House in Committee accordingly.
  Clause 1:—
  THE EARL OF HALSBURYsaid that in the House below certain clauses, under which a company might be incorporated for carrying on a profession or business, such as that of a chemist, for which individuals had to pass an examination, had been struck out. He hoped the House would not insist upon the reinsertion of those deleted clauses, for if that were done he feared it would be impossible to carry the Bill this session. It was the late Lord Herschell who first called attention to the anomaly of allowing companies to be formed to carry on business which
  398
  required technical skill, and for which individuals had to be examined in order to prove their competency. He (the Lord Chancellor) regretted the disappearance from the Bill of these clauses, but was afraid he would have to ask their Lordships to agree to the Commons Amendments.
  Clause 1 agreed to.
  Clause 2 amended and agreed to.
  Clauses 3 to 9 agreed to.
  Clause 10:—
  THE EARL OF HALSBURYsaid the clause as it stood required that many unnecessary particulars should be stated in the prospectus. He therefore moved Amendments which would have the effect of providing that the prospectus issued by or on behalf of a company, or by a promoter of a company, need not give the names and addresses of the holders or intended holders of founders' or management shares; particulars of the control given to such holders in relation to the company's business; the amount (if any) paid or payable as purchase money in cash, shares, or debentures, specifying the amount payable for goodwill; the amount (if any) paid or payable as commission for subscribing or agreeing to subscribe, or procuring or agreeing to procure subscriptions, for any shares in the company, or the rate of any such commission; the amount or estimated amount of preliminary expenses; the amount paid, or intended to be paid, to any promoter, and the consideration for any such payment; the dates of and parties to every material contract and a reasonable time and place at which any material contract or a copy thereof may be inspected, provided that this requirement shall not apply to a contract entered into in the ordinary course of the business carried on or intended to be carried on by the company, or to any contract entered into more than three years before the date of publication of the prospectus; the names and addresses of the auditors (if any) of the company; or full particulars of the nature, and extent of the interest (if any) of every director in the promotion of or in the property proposed to be acquired by the company, with a state-

  399
  ment of all sums paid, or agreed to be paid, to him in cash or shares by any person either to qualify him as a director or otherwise for services rendered by him in connection with the formation of the company.
  Amendments moved—
  "In page 6, lines 16 and 17, to leave out, 'and the names and addresses of the holders or intended holders'; in lines 18 to 20, to leave out, 'with particulars of the control given to such holders in relation to the company's businesss'; in lines 20 and 21, to leave out, 'their interest,' and to insert 'the interest of the holders'; in page 7, line 7, to leave out from 'company' to end of line 34."—(The Lord Chancellor.)
  Amendments agreed to.
  THE EARL OF HALSBURYsaid his attention had been called to the fact that the cost of publishing in a newspaper advertisement the contents of the Memorandum of Association, etc., with the prospectus was very heavy. He therefore proposed an Amendment to Section 6 of this clause, which related to the publication of a prospectus as a newspaper advertisement, providing that it should not be necessary to specify the contents of the Memorandum of Association or the signatories thereto, and the number of shares subscribed for by them.
  Amendment moved—
  "In page 8, line 32, to leave out from 'shall' to end of line 35, and to insert, 'not lie necessary to specify the contents of the Memorandum of Association or the signatories thereto, and the number of shares subscribed for by them.'"—(The Lord Chancellor.)
  Amendment agreed to.
  Amendment moved—
  "In Clause 10, page 8, lines 41 and 42, to leave out 'and could not with reasonable diligence have discovered it.'"—(The Lord Chancellor.)
  LORD DAVEYsaid he did not intend to oppose this Amendment, although he regretted that it had been moved. The subsection of Clause 10 in question provided that in the event of non-compliance with any of the requirements of the section a director or other person responsible for the prospectus should not incur any liability by reason of the non-compliance if he proved that, as regarded any matter not disclosed, he was not cognisant thereof, and could not with reasonable
  400
  diligence have discovered it. The noble and learned Lord now proposed to delete the words "and could not with reasonable diligence have discovered it." It sometimes happened that persons took care not to know. He regretted the proposal to omit these words, which, so far as he could see, could do no harm.
  THE EARL OF HALSBURYexpressed the opinion that the words proposed to be left out constituted an unreasonable region of inquiry.
  Amendment agreed to.
  Clause 10, as amended, agreed to.
  Clause 11 agreed to.
  Clause 12 amended, and agreed to.
  Clauses 13 to 25 agreed to.
  LORD DAVEYsaid the clause the reinsertion of which he proposed to move would come in after Clause 25. Their Lordships were aware that it was usual to raise money as part of the capital of a company by means of debentures on what was called a floating charge. Those floating charges were, if he might say so, the creation of the judges. They were a kind of charge which it would be impossible for an individual to give. The holder of one of these debentures had a right to intervene and to lay his hands upon any property of the company whenever default was made in the payment of his interest, or in case of winding up. No individual would be allowed to give a charge on his property the practical effect of which was to give a preference to a particular creditor in cases of bankruptcy. That would be against the policy of the bankruptcy laws. It had been established, however, that a company could do so, but it was not unfair or contrary to sound principles of legislation, when such a peculiar privilege was allowed to debenture-holders, to endeavour to limit it so that it should not bear hardly on the ordinary trade creditors of the company. Three preferences already existed—namely, the wages of workmen, the salaries of officers, and rates. Those of their Lordships who were acquainted with the winding up of companies must have been struck, he might almost say

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  shocked, by what had taken place. The debenture-holders owning these floating charges, who had supplied the capital for carrying on the company, came in and swept away the whole of the assets, leaving nothing at all to the trade creditors, who had supplied the material by which the company had carried on its business. In his opinion these debenture-holders stood on a totally different footing from the ordinary trade creditors. As they were practically the people for whose benefit the company was carried on, ho did not think they should be allowed, in the case of a winding up, to step in and sweep away the whole of the assets for themselves, leaving nothing for the trade creditors.
  Moved, to insert as a new clause—
  "In the winding-up of any company under the Companies Acts all debts owing by the company to its trade creditors, and incurred in the ordinary course of its trading within the period of three months before the date of the winding-up, shall be entitled to the same priority as the debts referred to in Section 2 of the Preferential Payments in Bankruptcy Amendment Act, 1897, and shall be paid accordingly, but after payment of such last-mentioned debts."—(Lord Davey.)
  LORD MACNAGHTENthought that a clause of this sort would have a very wholesome effect in the case of small trading companies, and he would be glad if it wore accepted. The noble and learned Lord instanced a case which recently came before the House in its judicial capacity to show the hardship which was frequently inflicted under the present law on ordinary trade creditors.
  THE EARL OF HALSBURYbelieved that his noble and learned friends would not insist on the clause when he told them that its acceptance would be fatal to the Bill. He did not, however, deny that there was a great deal in what they had said, and his own sympathies might be in their favour. He did not quite agree that the ordinary trade creditors were in an analogous position to that of those to whom a preference was now allowed—persons dependent for their daily bread on their wages. Whatever might be the merits of a clause of this sort, it had not a single friend when it was discussed in the House of Commons, where it seems to have been agreed that
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  it would be destructive to the credit of debentures, and so prevent a great many companies from raising money, which might be essential to their continuance, upon debentures. He was compelled on behalf of the Government to oppose the Amendment.
  LORD DAVEYsaid that after what the noble and learned Lord had said he would not press the clause. At the same time, he was much obliged to his noble and learned friend for his expression of sympathy, made in a somewhat guarded manner, with the object the Amendment sought to achieve, and perhaps in a future session he (Lord Davey) might claim the benefit of that sympathy.
  Amendment, by leave of the House, withdrawn.
  Clause 26:—
  THE EARL OF HALSBURYsaid he was unable to agree to this clause, which declared that—
  "It shall not be necessary for the Official Receiver in any further Report under Section 8, of the Companies (Winding-up) Act, 1890, to state whether in his opinion any fraud has been committeed by any particular person, and accordingly in Sub-section (2) of that section the words 'by any person,' and the words 'by any director or other officer of the; company, shall be repealed.'"
  The effect of this clause would be to allow a director, against whom no specific charge of fraud had been brought, to be placed in the witness-box and publicly examined. This would reverse a very valuable judgment of their Lordships' House, and would be harsh, unjust, and unreasonable.
  Amendment moved—
  "To omit Clause 26."—(The Lord Chancellor.)
  LORD DAVEYsupported the Amendment, and said that ample means were provided in the Companies Act of 1862. for investigation and obtaining evidence. The result of this clause would be to place perfectly innocent persons in an extremely disagreeable, odious, and unmerited position.
  Amendment agreed to.
  Clauses 27 to 32 agreed to.
  Clause 33:—
  Amendment moved—
  "In page 17, after line 32, to insert 'But nothing in this section shall be construed as extending the Companies (Winding-up) Act, 1890, to Scotland or Ireland.'"
  Amendment agreed to.
  Clause 33, as amended, agreed to.
  Clause 34 agreed to.
  Clause 35 amended, and agreed to.
  Remaining clauses agreed to.
  Report of Amendments to be received To-morrow; and Bill to be printed as amended. (No. 222.)

EXECUTORS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  LUNACY BOARD (SCOTLAND) (SALARIES, ETC.) BILL.
  Amendment reported (according to Order), and Bills to be read 3a To-morrow.

  INTERMEDIATE EDUCATION (IRELAND) BILL.
  [SECOND READING.]
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  THE EARL OF DENBIGH: My Lords, the main object of this Bill is to enable the funds at the disposal of the Intermediate Education Board to be expended for the purpose of carrying out the recommendations contained in the Report of the Intermediate Education Commission. It is considered that these funds could not be expended for the purpose of carrying out some of these recommendations without legislation, inasmuch as they are not clearly within the provisions of the Intermediate Education Act of 1878. Clause 2 gives power to appoint inspectors. Clause 3 gives power to grant superannuation allowances to the officers of the Board; and Clause 4 provides that the board shall consist of twelve instead of seven members.
  Bill read 2a (according to Order), and committed to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

  POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL.
  [SECOND READING.]
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  THE EARL OF DENBIGH: My Lords, the object of this Bill is to enable the guardians of a poor-law union to send children and lunatics to institutions situated outside the boundaries of their union, and also to enable the limit of land which may be acquired under the existing law for the purposes of poor-houses, schools, and other institutions under the control of the guardians, to be exceeded in special cases.
  Bill read 2a (according to Order), and committed to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHERS' SUPERANNUATION (ISLE OF MAN) BILL. (No. 223.)
  ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHERS' SUPERANNUATION (JERSEY) BILL. (No. 224.)
  Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed; and to be read 2a To-morrow.—(The Lord Belper.)
EXPIRING LAWS CONTINUANCE BILL. (No. 225.)
  PUBLIC WORKS LOANS BILL. (No. 226.)
  Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed; and to be read 2a To-morrow.—(The Marquess of Salisbury.)
  LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) (No. 2) BILL.
  Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed; and to be read 2a To-morrow.—(The Earl of Denbigh.) (No. 227.)
  LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) BILL.
  Brought from the Commons; read la; to be printed; and to be read 2a To-morrow.—(The Lord Ashbourne.) (No. 228.)

  IRISH TITHES—PUBLICATION OF PRICES IN THE DUBLIN GAZETTE.
  VISCOUNT TEMPLETOWN: My Lords, I beg to ask Her Majesty's Government under what statute or other authority is it obligatory to publish the average price of corn in the Dublin

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  Gazette; what department or what official is responsible for seeing that such average price is published; does the Dublin Gazette now publish the average price of corn as required by statute; if so, on what date was the publication resumed subsequent to 1887 (when the publication was admittedly discontinued); and will the payers and receivers of Church perpetuity rents become again I entitled to have those rents varied as soon as the average price of corn has been published in the Dublin Gazette for seven years preceding the dates at which the parties would in the ordinary course be entitled to have their perpetuity rents varied.
  THE EARL OF DENBIGH: Statistics concerning corn, including average prices, were formerly published in the Dublin Gazette under the provisions of several Irish statutes relating to corn bounties, and were subsequently adopted by and made applicable to the Acts dealing with tithe rent-charge and Church perpetuity grants. The Corn Bounty statutes were repealed by the Statute Law Revision (Ireland) Act, 1879. In 1887 the average prices of corn ceased to lie published or advertised in the Dublin Gazette. The cause of this cessation is unknown, as no record on the subject can be traced. It is doubtful whether since the repeal of the Corn Bounty Acts a responsibility is thrown by law on any department or official for seeing that such average prices are published. The Irish Government have, with Treasury sanction, arranged with the secretary of the Dublin Corn Exchange for the resumption of the publication weekly in the Dublin Gazette of these average prices. The first publication under this arrangement was made on 17th January, 1899. As regards the fourth question, the answer will depend upon whether the average prices now published by the Dublin Gazette are held by the courts to be the average prices of corn as required by statute.

  TRAMWAY BILLS—AMENDMENT OF STANDING ORDERS.
  LORD RIBBLESDALE: My Lords, I beg to ask the Chairman of Committees a question of which I have given him private notice—namely, whether he has under consideration the expediency of proposing an alteration of Standing Order No. XXII., the effect of which is to
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  give local authorities an absolute veto upon any proposal for the construction of a new tramway. In the event of the London County Council promoting a Tramway Bill they have to obtain the consent of the local authorities, and accept conditions the local authorities desire to impose, not always to the public interest. The difficulty is increased by the fact that very often a tramway runs through the districts of several road authorities, who have different views as to what their particular districts require. I believe the Standing Order could be amended so far as London is concerned by the insertion of a very few words. If I receive any encouragement from the noble Earl I will bring forward a motion at the beginning of next session.
  THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (The EARL of MORLEY): I am entirely in sympathy with my noble friend, and I think I expressed that view a week or two ago in this House. This preliminary objection which any local authority can take to a tramway going through any part of its district is not conducive to the public interest, although I think the road authority ought to have a strong voice in such matters. I have had the question brought before me in relation both to London and other parts of the country. As Lord Ribblesdale said, the question, so far as it affects London, is not on all fours with other parts of the country. I am very anxious, if possible, to move an Amendment to the Standing Orders in question. It is now too late in the session to do so, as I should not like so important an Amendment to be made without the local authorities having ample opportunity of expressing their opinions upon it. I did not, therefore, include any Amendment to this Standing Order in the Amendments I moved a day or two ago. I am, however, in hearty sympathy with my noble friend, and I hope to move an Amendment to Standing Order No. XXII. next session.

  BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
  Standing Order No. XXXIX. to be considered To-morrow, in order to its being suspended for the remainder of the session.
  House adjourned at ten minutes before Six of the clock, till To-morrow, at a quarter past Four of the clock.