Sitting of 28 July 1897

ORDERS OF THE DAY.

  PUBLIC HEALTH (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  As amended (by the Standing Committee), further considered.
  Clause 108,—

  POWERS OF UTILISING SEWAGE.
  The local authority may, from time to time, for the purpose of utilising sewage, agree with any person as to the supply of such sewage or the distribution or disposal or treatment thereof over land, and as to the works to be made for the purpose of such supply or distribution or disposal, or treatment, and as to the parties to execute the same and to bear the costs thereof, and as to the sums of money, if any, to be paid for that supply; provided that no contract shall be made for the supply of sewage for a period exceeding five years, unless with the authority of the Board, and not for any period exceeding twenty-five years; and the local authority may, in terms of the provisions of Sections one hundred and forty-three and one hundred and forty-four of this Act, contract for, purchase, or take on lease any lands, buildings, engines, materials, or apparatus for the purpose of receiving, storing, disinfecting, distributing, or disposing of or treating sewage.
  Amendments made: Leave out "one hundred and forty-three and"; after "forty-four," insert "one hundred and forty-five."—(Lord Advocate.)
  Clause 111,—

  USE OF SEWERS BY PERSONS BEYOND DISTRICT.
  Any owner or occupier of premises beyond the limits of the district of a local authority or within said limits who is not liable for general assessment or special sewer assessment may cause any sewer or drain from such premises to communicate with any sewer of the local authority: provided always, that such sewer of the local authority and any works connected therewith are of sufficient capacity and otherwise suitable for receiving such additional drainage; and that upon such terms and conditions as may be agreed upon between such owner or occupier and such local authority, and any dispute which may arise miller tins section shall be determined summarily by the sheriff. Provided always that the additional sewage so to be emptied or discharged into the sewers is not of a nature to cause damage to the structure of the sewer or, by admixture with other sewage therein, to cause a nuisance.
  Amendments made: Before "general," insert "public health."—(Lord Advocate.)
  Clause 118,—

  PLACING CARCASSES IN RUNNING WATER, ETC.
  It shall not be lawful for any person to throw, or suffer to be thrown, into any running water, drains, or ditches, the carcass of any animal or part thereof, and any person offending against this clause shall be liable to a penalty not exceeding ten pounds.
  Amendments made: After "water," insert "spring"; after "water," insert "well."—(Lord Advocate.)
  After "water," insert "lake, pool, reservoir."—(Sir J. Fergusson.)
  Clause 121,—

  LOCAL AUTHORITIES MAY COMBINE AS TO SEWERAGE.
  Two or more local authorities may, with the sanction of the Board, combine together for the purpose of executing and maintaining any works by this Act or any other Act authorised in regard to sewerage or drainage that may be for the benefit of their respective districts; and all moneys which they may agree to contribute for the execution and maintenance of such common works shall, in the case of each local authority, be deemed to be expenses incurred by them in the execution of works within their district.
  Amendments made: Leave out "and," and insert "or acquiring an interest in or"; leave out "and," and insert "or acquisition or"; after "execution," insert "acquisition or maintenance."—(Lord Advocate.)
  Clause 122,—

  SPECIAL DRAINAGE DISTRICTS.
  (1.) Upon requisition to that effect, made in writing, by a parish council, or by not fewer than ten ratepayers within the district of a Meal authority not being the local authority at a burgh, the local authority shall be bound to meet, after twenty-one days' notice, and whether sewers or drains have been already constructed or not, consider the propriety of—

  (a) forming part of their district into a special drainage district; or

  (b) enlarging or limiting the boundaries of a special drainage district; or

  (c) combining a special drainage district with another special drainage district; or

  (d) enlarging or limiting the boundaries of both or either of such special drainage districts and combining the same or parts thereof; or

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  (e) determining that any special drainage district shall cease to exist as a special drainage district., or that any such combination shall cease;

  and the resolution of the local authority shall determine all questions regarding the payment of any debt which may affect any special drainage district, and the right to impose and the obligation to pay any assessment affected by such determination, and shall fix the date at which such determination shall take effect; and such resolution shall be published in one or more newspapers circulating in the district, or by the posting of handbills throughout the district, and a copy of said resolution shall be forthwith transmitted to the Board, and, where the local authority is a district committee, to the county council; and the production of such newspaper or handbill, or a certificate under the hand of the cleric of the local authority (whose signature need not be proved) shall be sufficient evidence of such resolution; and within twenty-one days after the date of the publication of such resolution it shall be competent for any person interested to appeal against the resolution to the sheriff, and the sheriff, not being a sheriff-substitute resident within the district, may either approve or disapprove of such resolutions, and if he disapproves thereof he may either find that no special drainage district should be formed, or may enlarge or limit the special district as defined by the resolution of the local authority, or may find that a special drainage district should be formed and may define the limits thereof, or may find that such special drainage district or part thereof shall be combined as prayed, or that such combination shall cease, or that such special drainage district or districts shall, as such, cease to exist; and the decision of the sheriff shall be binding, and shall be final, except where it is pronounced by a sheriff-substitute, in which case it may be appealed to the sheriff.
  (2.) The order of the sheriff shall determine all questions regarding the payment of any debt which may affect any special drainage district, and the right to impose, and the obligation to pay, any assessment affected by his determination, and shall fix the date at which such determination shall take effect, and a copy of every such resolution by a local authority and of any order pronounced by the sheriff shall be forthwith published in one or more newspapers circulating in the district, or by the posting of handbills throughout the district, and transmitted to the Board and to the county council.
  (3.) Where a district committee is the local authority, notwithstanding the provisions of Section seventeen, Sub-section two, Sub-head (c) of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1889, it shall not be competent to appeal to the county council against any resolution of the district committee under this section.
  (4.) Nothing contained in this Act shall prejudice the provisions of Section eighty-one of the last-mentioned Act as amended by Section forty-four of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1894.
  MR. J. CALDWELLmoved in Sub-section (1), before the
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  words "publication of such resolution," to insert "last." The effect of the Amendment would be that the formation of a. special drainage district would take place 21 days after the. "last" publication of the advertisement notice.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. GRAHAM' MURRAY, Buteshire)said that this was a real case in which the "last" should be "first"—["hear, hear!" and laughter]—whilst it was possible to know the date on which the first publication of the notice took place, it would be difficult to know the date of the last publication of it, as there was no definite number of times fixed for the publication. He thought that 21 days after the first publication would be a satisfactory interval, and if the hon. Member would substitute "first" for "last" he would accept the Amendment.
  MR. CALDWELLsaid that he only wished that the time should be definite. He would, therefore, accept the Lord Advocate's suggestion, and he consequently asked leave to withdraw his Amendment.
  Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
  MR. CALDWELLmoved in the same Sub-section, before the words "publication of such resolution," to insert "first."
  Amendment agreed to.
  Amendments made: After "resolution," insert "whatever its terms may be"; before "special," insert "district or"; leave out "every such resolution by a local authority and of."—(Lord Advocate.)
  MR. T. R. BUCHANANmoved to insert at the end, after Sub-section (3): —
  (4) Where a special drainage district has been formed, or may hereafter be formed, under the provisions of this Act, the district committee of the district in which such special drainage district is or may be situated, or the county council where a county is not divided into districts, shall, in their discretion, have power to provide for the drainage of the highways and footpaths under their management and control within such special drainage district, or to pay or contribute out of the assessments raised under the Roads and Bridges (Scotland) Act 1878 a proportion of the cost of providing and maintaining sewers sufficient for the drainage of such highways and footpaths.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid that he was willing to accept the Amendment.
  *MR. SPEAKER: I do not know whether the right hon. and learned Gentleman has satisfied himself that this Amendment does not alter the incidence of taxation.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid that he was afraid that the latter part of the Amendment would do so. If the hon. Member would be content with his promise he would undertake to consider the matter, with the view, if necessary, of himself moving an Amendment in another place which would carry out the hon. Member's object.
  DR. CLARKsaid that the Amendment could not be inserted in the House of Lords.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid that he proposed to move the recommitment of the Bill in order to get the sub-section inserted in Committee.
  MR. BUCHANANsaid that he wished to point out that a similar sub-section was contained in the Bill in regard to sewage. Ire asked leave to withdraw his Amendment.
  Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
  Amendment made: In Sub-section (4), before "section," insert "Sub-sections one and two of."—(Lord Advocate.)
  Clause 124, —

  SUPPLY OF WATER FOR BURGHS.
  With respect to burghs subject to the provisions of the Burgh Police (Scotland) Act 1892 or having a local Act for police purposes, nothing contained in this Act shall prejudice the provisions of any of the said Acts in regard to the provision of a supply of water for the domestic use of the inhabitants and for sanitary and other purposes. Provided that m the said Acts the term "land" shall include water and any right or servitude to or over land or water.
  Amendments made: After "for police," insert "or other."—(Sir L. McIver.)
  Leave out "said Acts," and insert—
  "Burgh Police (Scotland) Act 1892, and in the Land Clauses Acts so far as incorporated therewith, or authorised thereby to be put in force."—(Lord Advocate.)
  Clause 125,—

  LOCAL AUTHORITY TO REQUIRE WATER TO BE SUPPLIED TO HOUSES IN CERTAIN CASES.
  If any occupied house within the district of any local authority other than the local authority of a burgh is without a proper supply of
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  wholesome water at or reasonably near the same, the local authority shall require the owner to obtain such supply and to do all such works as may be necessary for that purpose, and failing his doing so, within twelve months after due notice, the local authority may themselves obtain such supply, and for that purpose may use their powers of acquiring land by agreement or otherwise under this Act; and may enter upon the premises and execute all such works as may appear to them necessary, in the same manner as if an order of a sheriff, magistrate, or justice had been made for the removal of a nuisance on the premises and that order had not been complied with; and the local authority may recover in a summary manner from the owner the whole or a reasonable part of the expenses incurred by them under this section: Provided that where the owners of two or more houses have failed to comply with the requirements of the notice served on them under this section, and the local authority might, under this Act, execute the necessary works for providing a water supply for each house, the local authority may, if it appears to them desirable and no greater expense would be occasioned thereby, execute works for the joint supply of water to those houses, and apportion the expenses as they deem just, and further provided that if any question shall arise under this section it shall be determined summarily by the sheriff, who shall have regard to all the circumstances of the case, and whose decision shall be final.
  Amendment made: After "may," insert "for the purpose of obtaining such supply."—(Lord Advocate.)
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEmoved to leave out the words—
  "and execute all such works as may appear to them necessary, in the same manner as if an order of a sheriff, magistrate, or justice had been made for the removal of a nuisance on the premises and that order had not been complied with."
  MR. R. WALLACEsaid that in his opinion the Amendment would render the clause worthless.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid that his Amendment simply took away the too drastic power which the clause originally gave to the local authorities to enter premises, and to execute works, and to provide a water supply without an appeal to the Sheriff. The Amendment had been suggested by a gentleman of considerable experience, who hail pointed out that the clause, as it stood, would tempt local authorities sometimes to avoid their duty to arrange for a general water supply, by insisting upon individuals providing it for their own premises at their own expense. His Amendment must be

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  read along with the following proviso, which he intended to move—
  "Provided that nothing in this section shall relieve the local authority from the duty of providing their district or any part thereof with a supply of water, where a general scheme for such supply is required, and can be carried out at a reasonable cost."
  MR. R. WALLACEsaid that he could not see what beneficial effect that Amendment would have.
  MR. CALDWELLsaid he thought that the Amendment was objectionable. He suggested that the words should be left in, and if it were necessary alteration could be effected in another place.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEassented.
  Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
  Amendment made: At the end of the clause add,—
  "Provided that nothing in this section shall relieve the local authority from the duty of providing their district or any part thereof with a supply of water, where a general scheme for such supply is required, and can be carried out at a reasonable cost."—(Lord Advocate.)
  Clause 126,—

  SUPPLY OF WATER FOR DISTRICTS OTHER THAN BURGHS.
  With respect to districts other than burghs the following provisions shall have effect:—

  (1.) The local authority, if they think it expedient so to do, may acquire and provide or arrange for a supply of water for the domestic use of the inhabitants and for sanitary and other purposes, and for that purpose may acquire and conduct water from any lake, river, spring, or stream, may dig wells, make and maintain reservoirs, may purchase, take upon lease, hire, construct, lay down, and maintain such waterworks, pipes, and premises, and do and execute all such works, matters, and things as shall be necessary and proper for the aforesaid purpose, and may themselves furnish a supply of water, or contract or arrange with any other person to furnish the same; and for the purposes aforesaid the local authority shall be held to have all the powers and rights given to promoters of undertakings by the Lands Clauses Acts as amended by this Act: Provided also, that it shall not be lawful for the local authority to provide or supply water within any area which any local authority or any company, established by Act of Parliament or empowered by or authorised by Provisional Order, is authorised to supply with water, unless the local authority shall previously have purchased or acquired the undertaking of such local authority or company.

  (2.) The local authority, if they have any surplus water after fully supplying what is required for domestic and sanitary purposes, may supply water from such surplus to any public
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  baths and wash-houses, or for trading or manufacturing and all other than domestic purposes, on such terms and conditions as may be agreed on between the local authority and the persons desirous of being so supplied. Provided that when water is thus supplied from such surplus it shall not be lawful for the local authority to charge the persons so supplied both with the portion of the special water assessment applicable to the buildings or premises supplied, and also for the supply of water obtained; but the local authority may either charge the said assessment available on such buildings or premises, or charge for the supply of water furnished to the same as they shall think fit, and the local authority shall have the same remedies and powers of recovering payment of such water rents or payments as are hereinafter provided with regard to the special water assessment.

  (3.) The local authority may cause all existing public cisterns, pumps, wells, reservoirs. conduits, aqueducts, and works used for the gratuitous supply of water to the inhabitants to be continued, maintained, and plentifully supplied with water, or may substitute, maintain, and plentifully supply with water other such works equally convenient; and may, if they shall think fit, provide and gratuitously supply water for any public baths or wash-houses established otherwise than for private profit or supported out of any rates.

  Amendment made: In Sub-section (1) before "promoters of undertakings" insert "and be subject to all the obligations imposed on the."—(Mr. Caldwell.)
  MR. CALDWELLmoved, at the end of the clause, to add,—
  (4.) The local authority shall have the same powers and be subject to the same restrictions for carrying water mains within their district as they have and are subject to for carrying sewers within their district respectively by the law for the time being in force.
  He said that he had intended to insert the words "or without" after the word "within" and before the words "their district," but, in accordance with the wish of the Lord Advocate, he had omitted them.
  DR. CLARKsaid that he did not see the use of the Amendment if the words "or without" were omitted. All the trouble occurred outside the area.
  Amendment agreed to.
  Clause 127,—

  PENALTY FOR CAUSING WATER TO BE CORRUPTED BY GAS WASHINGS, ETC.
  Any person engaged in the manufacture of gas, naphtha, vitriol, paraffin, or dye stuffs, or any other deleterious substance, or in any trade in which the refuse produced in any such manufacture is used, who shall at any time cause or suffer to be brought or to flow into any stream,

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  reservoir, aqueduct, well, or pond, or place for water, constructed or used for the supply of water for domestic purposes, or into any pipe or drain communicating therewith, any product, washing, or other substance produced in any such manufacture, or shall wilfully do any act connected with any such manufacture, whereby the water in any such stream, reservoir, aqueduct, well, pond, or place for water shall be fouled, and any person who shall wilfully do or permit to be done any act whereby the water in any stream, reservoir, aqueduct, well, pond, a place constructed or used for the supply of water for domestic purposes shall be fouled, shall forfeit for every such offence a sum not exceeding fifty pounds.
  Amendment made: After "water for," insert "drinking or other."—(Mr. Weir.)
  *MR. WEIRmoved, at the end of the clause, to add,—
  "And in the case of the Highland crofting counties of Argyll, Inverness, Ross and Cromarty, Caithness, Sutherland, and Orkney and Shetland, it is provided that if the local authority fail to take action under section eight of the Pollution of Rivers Act 1876, for the purpose of freeing from pollution any stream or river which within a period of ten years from the date hereof has formed the water supply for domestic purposes of any ten or more inhabitants of any township or village situated in one or more of the said Highland counties, and which river or stream may have become so polluted by sewage or otherwise as to render it unfit for drinking or other domestic purposes, then, notwithstanding any provisions contained in any section of this Act, it shall be binding on the local authority, on receiving notice in writing from any five inhabitants of such township or village, to provide a fit and proper supply of water suitable for drinking or other domestic purposes, and should the local authority fail, within reasonable time after the notice aforesaid, to afford a lit and suitable service of water, then it shall be incumbent on the Local Government Board for Scotland to take such steps as may be necessary to insure that supply being provided."
  He said that at present the Local Government Board had no power to compel the local authorities to take action in providing a proper water supply. He had hall brought to his notice an illustration of the present unsatisfactory position. There was the small village of Causer, containing some 17 houses on the River Nethy in Inverness-shire, which from time immemorial had drawn its water supply from the river. Recently some houses had been built above the village, and the drainage from the houses had polluted the river. The local authority had required the people of the village to obtain a water
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  supply from another source, but this they were too poor to do. Action had been taken against them in the Sheriff's Court, and an order had been made, but it had not yet been enforced. He had received a letter from the Secretary for Scotland on the matter, expressing great sympathy with the people of this village, but saying that he had no power to compel the local authority to prevent the pollution of the river. The Secretary for Scotland added that the only course for the householders to take was to proceed under the Pollution of Rivers Act. Ho could not see why the Lord Advocate should not accept this Amendment. Not only were the people of this village liable to disease caused by the pollution of the river, but, as the locality was a resort of tourists, visitors might also suffer in health.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid it was quite impossible to accept the Amendment, for it meant that there would be an absolute right in five inhabitants of a village to have a water supply given them at the expense of the local authority by simply signing a requisition to that effect. At the same time, he was not insensible of the fact, in view of the case brought to his notice, that difficulties about water supply might arise, but when this Bill became law the powers of the local authority and of the Local Government Board would be greater than they were. Even so he would undertake to consider the application of these powers to the concrete case, and if further words were necessary he would see that they were introduced in another place before the Bill became law.
  DR. CLARKadvised his hon. Friend to be satisfied with the undertaking of the Lord Advocate.
  SIR C. CAMERONhoped the right hon. Gentleman at the same time would consider the general question of giving the Local Government Board power to compel the local authority to provide a proper water supply.
  Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
  Clause 130,—

  LOCAL AUTHORITIES MAY COMBINE AS TO WATER SUPPLY.
  Two or more local authorities may, with the sanction of the Board, combine together for the purpose of executing and maintaining any

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  works by this Act or any other Act authorised in regard to water supply that may be for the benefit of their respective districts; and all moneys which they may agree to contribute for the execution and maintenance of such common works shall, in the case of each local authority, be deemed to be expenses incurred by them in the execution of works within their district.
  Amendments made: Leave out "and" and insert "or acquiring an interest in or"; leave out "and" and insert "or acquisition or"; after "execution" insert "acquisition or maintenance."—(Lord Advocate.)
  Clause 131,—

  SPECIAL WATER SUPPLY DISTRICTS
  (1.) Upon requisition to that effect, made in writing, by a parish council or by not fewer than ten ratepayers within the district, the local authority, not being the local authority of a burgh, shall be bound to meet, after twenty-one days' notice, and shall, whether water supply has been already provided or not, consider the propriety of—

  (a) forming part of their district into a special water supply district; or

  (b) enlarging or limiting the boundaries of a special water supply district; or

  (c) combining a special water supply district with another special water supply district; or

  (d) enlarging or limiting the boundaries of both or either of such special water supply districts, and combining the same or parts thereof; or

  (e) determining that any special water supply district shall cease to exist as a special water supply district, or that any such combination shall cease;

  and the resolution of the local authority shall determine all questions regarding the payment of any debt which may affect any special water supply district, and the right to impose and the obligation to pay any assessment affected by such determination, and shall fix the date at which such determination shall take effect; and such resolution shall be published in one or more newspapers circulating in the district, or by the posting of handbills throughout the district, and a copy of said resolution shall be forthwith transmitted to the Board, and where the local authority is a district committee to the county council; and the production of such newspaper or handbill, or a certificate under the hand of the clerk of the local authority (whose signature need not be proved), shall be sufficient evidence of such resolution; and within twenty-one days after the date of the publication of such resolution it shall be competent for any person interested to appeal against the same to the sheriff; and the sheriff, not being a sheriff-substitute resident within the district, may either approve or disapprove of such resolution; and if he disapproves thereof he may either find that no special water supply district should be formed, or
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  may enlarge or limit the special district as defined by the resolution of the local authority, or may find that a special water supply district should be formed, and may define the limits thereof, or may find that such special water supply district or part thereof shall be combined as prayed, or that such combination shall cease, or that such special water supply district or districts shall, as such, cease to exist; and the decision of the sheriff shall be binding, and shall be final, except where it is pronounced by a sheriff substitute, in which case it may be appealed to the sheriff:
  (2.) The order of the sheriff shall determine all questions regarding the payment of any debt which may affect any district or special water supply district, and the right to impose and the obligation to pay any assessments affected by his determination, and shall fix the date at which such determination shall take effect; and a copy of said order shall be forthwith published in one or more newspapers circulating in the district, or by the posting of handbills throughout the district and transmitted to the Board and to the county council.
  (3.) Notwithstanding the provisions of Section seventeen, Sub-section two, subhead (c) of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1889, it shall not be competent to appeal to the county council against any resolution of a district committee under this section.
  (4.) Nothing contained in this Act shall prejudice the provisions of Sub-sections one and two of Section eighty-one of the last-mentioned Act as amended by Section forty-four of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1894.
  Amendments made: Before "special," insert "district or."—(Lord Advocate.)
  Before "publication" insert "last."—(Mr. Caldwell.)
  Leave out "same," and insert "resolution (whatever its terms may be)"; before "special" insert "district or"; before "section," insert "Sub-sections 1 and 2 of."—(Lord Advocate).
  Clause 135,—

  GENERAL ASSESSMENTS IN DISTRICTS OTHER THAN BURGHS.
  With respect to districts other than burghs, all charges and expenses incurred by or devolving on the local authority in executing this Act or ally of the Acts hereby repealed, and not recovered as hereinbefore or after provided, may be defrayed out of an assessment (in this Act referred to as the public health general assessment) to be levied by the local authority upon all lands and heritages within the district, or in the case of counties not divided into districts, within the county, in the like manner as, but as a separate assessment from, the assessment hereinafter mentioned in this section; that is to say, the said assessment shall

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  be assessed, levied, and recovered in like milliner and under like powers as—
  The assessment for the maintenance of roads under the provisons of the Bowls and Bridges (Scotland) Act 1878. or where there is no such assessment, by an assessment levied in such ma niter as en assessment might have been levied for the maintenance of roads.
  Nothing contained in this Act shall affect or prejudice the provisions of the Agricultural its tee, Congested Districts and. Burgh Land Tax Belief (Scotland) Act 1896.
  Leave out "or after" leave out "such" ["such manner"] and insert "like."—(Lord Advocate).
  At end, insert "under that Act."—(Mr. Caldwell.)
  Clause 136,—

  GENERAL ASSESSMENTS IN BURGHS.
  With respect to burghs subject to the provisions of the Burgh Police (Scotland) Act 1892, or having a local Act for police purposes—
  All charges and expenses incurred by or devolving on the local authority in executing this Act or any of the Acts hereby repealed, and not recovered as hereinbefore provided, may be defrayed out of an assessment (in this Act referred to as the public health general assessment) to be levied by the local authority along with but as a separate assessment front the assessment hereinafter mentioned; that is to say, the said assessment shall be assessed, levied, oil recovered in like manner and under the like powers as—
  The general improvement rate or, when t here is no such rate, by a rate levied in like manner as the general improvement rate.
  Provided also, that where a special drainage district has been formed, under the provisions of any Act, and the drainage works therein have been executed and are maintained under the authority of such Act, the lands and premises situated within such special district shall not lie liable to assessment for the expense of making sewers and drainage works in other parts of the district of the local authority.
  Amendments made: After "powers" insert "but without any limit except as in the immediately succeeding section provided"; after "rate," ["improvement rate"] insert "under The Burgh Police (Scotland) Act, 1892"; after "rate," insert "under the lost-mentioned Act."—(Lord Advocate).
  Clause 131,—

  LIMIT OF ASSESSMENT.
  The public health general assessment by this Act authorised, which shall be imposed upon all lands and heritages within the district, including any special drainage or special water supply district, shall not exceed the rate of one shilling in the pound.
  The special sewer assessment, and the special water assessment, exclusive of the public health general assessment, shall not in any special drainage or special water supply district exceed the rate of three shillings in the pound. Provided that if the produce of a rate of three shillings in the pound in any special drainage or special water supply district shall not be sufficient to meet the expenditure bonâfide incurred or contemplated within such special district, it shall be lawful to increase such rate to such extent as may have been approved by the Board; but it shall not be lawful to impose any rate in respect of the expenditure within such special district upon any premises without such special district.
  Amendments made: Leave out "but" ["but it shall not"] and insert "Provided also that"; leave out "such" ["such special district"] and insert "any."—(Lord Advocate).
  Clause 138,—

  BURGHS NOT TO BE ASSESSED FOR PUBLIC HEALTH RATE IN COUNTIES.
  Notwithstanding anything contained in the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1889, or in this Act, the ratepayers of a burgh shall not be assessed for any charges or expenses incurred by a county council in connection with this Act or in relation to public health, nor for the salaries or expenses of the medical officer or sanitary inspector appointed for the county, and no representative of a burgh shall in a district committee or on the county council act or vote in any matter relating to this Act or to public health for which the ratepayers in such burgh are not liable to be assessed.
  Amendment made: Leave out "in connection with this Act, or in relation to public health."—(Lord Advocate).
  Clause 139,—

  POWER OF BORROWING FOR SEWERS.
  It shall be lawful for the local authority to borrow for the purpose of acquiring, making, enlarging, or reconstructing sewers, or for the purposes specified in Section ninety-nine of this Act; and on the security of the special sewer assessments, where such exist, and the public health general assessments, or either of them, such sums of money, and at such times, as the local authority shall deem necessary for that purpose, and to assign the said special sewer assessments and public health general assessments or any of them in security of the money to be so borrowed; and the bonds to

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  be granted on such borrowing and transferences or assignations and discharges thereof may be in or near to the forms contained in the second schedule hereto annexed, and such bonds shall be signed by two members and the clerk of the local authority, and shall constitute a lien over the special sewer assessments and general assessments thereby assigned, and shall entitle the creditors therein to recover the sums thereby due from the local authority out of the first and readiest of the said special and general assessments; but no such member or officer shall be personally liable for the repayment of such money so borrowed, and all such obligations shall be deemed and taken to be granted on the sole security of the assessments assigned; and the money so borrowed shall be repayable either in one sum or by instalments, as may be arranged between the borrower and the lender, but so that the same shall be wholly repaid, together with the accruing interest, within thirty years from the date of the loan, but the amount of such loans, including interest, shall form a charge against the assessments of the years intervening between the date of such loans and the date of full repayment; and the money so borrowed as aforesaid shall be applied for the purposes specified in this section, and for the purposes specified in Section ninety-nine of this Act, and for no other purpose whatsoever.
  Amendments made: Leave out "the purposes specified in Section 99 of this Act, and," and insert" purpose of utilising "sewage"; leave out "or either of them," and insert "as the case may be"; leave out "or any of them," and insert "as the case may be"; leave out "and for the purposes specified in Section 99 of this Act."—(Lord Advocate).
  Clause 140,—

  POWER OF BORROWING FOR WATER SUPPLY.
  It shall be lawful for the local authority to borrow for the purpose of constructing, purchasing, enlarging, or reconstructing such works as are herein authorised for providing a supply of water for the use of the inhabitants of the district, or for the purpose of entering into and implementing any contract or arrangement with any person for such supply, and on the security of the special water assessments, where such exist, and of public health general assessments, or either of them, such sums of money and at such times as the local authority shall deem necessary for that purpose, and to assign the said special water assessments and public health general assessments, or either of them, in security of the money to be so borrowed; and the bonds to be granted on such borrowing and transferences or assignations and discharges thereof may be in or near to the forms contained in the second schedule hereto annexed; and such bonds shall be signed by two members and the clerk of the local authority, and shall constitute a lien over the assessments thereby assigned, and shall entitle the creditors therein to recover the sums thereby due out of the first and readiest of the
  1328
  said assessments; but no such member or clerk shall be personally liable for the repayment of such money so borrowed, and all such obligations shall be deemed and taken to be granted on the sole security of the assessments thereby assigned, and the money so borrowed shall be repayable either in one suns or by instalments, as may be arranged between the borrower and the lender, but so that the same shall be wholly repaid, together with the accruing interest, within thirty years from the date of die lean; but the amount of such loans, including interest, shall form a charge against the assessments of the years intervening between the date of such loans and the date of full repayment; and the money so borrowed as aforesaid shall be applied wholly in defraying the expense of constructing, purchasing, enlarging, and reconstructing such works, and to no other purpose whatsoever.
  Amendments made: Leave out "or either or them," and insert "as the case may be"; leave out "or either of them," and insert "as the case may be."—(Lord Advocate).
  Clause 141,—

  POWER OF BORROWING FOR HOSPITALS, ETC.
  It shall be lawful for the local authority to borrow for the purpose of providing offices for the use of the local authority, and for providing such permanent hospitals, omces, disinfecting premises and apparatus, houses of reception, or mortuaries as are hereinbefore authorised, and on the security of the public health general assessments, such sums of money and at such times as they shall deem necessary for that purpose, and to assign the said public health general assessments in security of the money to be so borrowed: and the bonds to be granted on such borrowing and transferences or assignations and discharges thereof may be in or near to the forms contained in the second schedule hereto annexed; and such bonds shall be signed by two members and the clerk of the local authority, and shall constitute a lien over the assessments thereby assigned, and shall entitle the creditors therein to recover the sums thereby due out of the first and readiest of the said assessments; but no such member or officer shall be personally liable for the repayment of such money so borrowed, and all such obligations shall be deemed and taken to be granted on the sole security of the assessments thereby assigned, and the money so borrowed shall be repayable either in one sum or by instalments, as may be arranged between the borrower and the lender, but so that the same shall be wholly repaid, together with the accruing interest, within thirty years from the date of the loan; but the amount of such loans, including interest, shall form a charge against the assessments of the years intervening between the date of such loans and the date of full repayment; and the money so borrowed as aforesaid shall be applied wholly in defraying the expense of providing such permanent hospitals, offices, disinfecting premises and apparatus, houses of reception, or mortuaries, and to no other purpose whatsoever.
  Amendments made: After "providing" ["providing offices"] insert "and furnishing"; after "providing" ["providing such"] insert "and furnishing"; leave out "offices."—(Lord Advocate).
  After "such" ["providing such"] insert "offices"; leave out "offices."— (Lord Advocate).
  Clause 115,—

  REGULATIONS AS TO THE COMPULSORY PURCHASE OF LAND, ETC.
  The following regulations shall be observed with respect to the purchase and taking of land otherwise than by agreement by local authorities for the purposes hereinbefore mentioned—
  (1.) The local authority before applying to the Board for an order empowering them to put in force the powers of the Land Clauses Acts with respect to the purchase and taking of land otherwise than by agreement shall—
  publish once at least in each of two consecutive weeks in some newspaper circulated in the district or some part of the district where the land is proposed to be taken, an advertisement describing shortly the land proposed to be taken and the purpose for which the land is proposed to be taken, naming a place where a plan of the proposed works and of the lands which may be taken, and a book of reference to such plan, may be seen at all reasonable hours, anal stating the quantity of land they require: and shall further
  serve a not-ice in manner hereinafter mentioned on every owner or reputed owner. lessee or reputed lessee, and occupier of such land, defining in each case the particular lanai intended to be taken, and requiring an answer, stating whether the person so served assents, dissents, or is neuter in respect of taking such land; such notice to be served
  by delivery of the same personally to the person on whom it is required to be served, or, if such person is absent abroad, to his agent; or
  by leaving the same at the usual or last known place of abode of such person as aforesaid: or
  by forwarding the same by post in a registered letter addressed to the usual or last known place of abode of such person.
  Every such plan shall be drawn on a scale of not lets than four inches to a mile, and the book of reference shall contain the names of the owners and lessees, or reputed owners and lessees, and of the occupiers of the lands which may be taken.
  (2.) Upon compliance with the provisions hereinbefore contained with respect to advertisements and notices, the local authority may, if they shall think fit, present a petition to the Board; the petition shall state the land intended to be taken, and the purposes for
  1330
  which it is required, and the names of the owners, lessees, and occupiers of land who have assented, dissented, or are neuter in respect of the taking of such land, or who have returned no answer to the notice; it shall pray that the local authority may, with reference to such land, be allowed to put in force the powers of the Lands Clauses Acts with respect to the purchase and taking of land otherwise than by agreement, and such prayer shall be supported by such evidence as the Board requires.
  (3.) Upon receipt of such petition, and upon due proof of the proper advertisements having been published and notices served, the Board shall take such petition into consideration, and may either dismiss the same or direct an inquiry in the district in which the land is situate, or otherwise inquire as to the propriety of assenting to the prayer of such petition; but unto such inquiry has been made in the district after such notice as may be directed by the Board, no order shall be made affecting any land without the consent of the owners, lessees, and occupiers thereof.
  Any such inquiry may be held by a person appointed by the Board in the manner anal with the powers hereinbefore provided, or if the Secretary for Scotland, by any writing under Ms hand shall so direct, such inquiry shall be held by the sheriff, not being a sheriff-substitute resident within the district.
  (4.) After the completion of the inquiry as last aforesaid, the Board may, by Provisional Order, empower the local authority to nut in force, with reference to the land or any part of the land referred to in such Order, the powers of the Lands Clauses Acts with respect to the purchase and taking of land otherwise than by agreement, and may make such determination as they may think fit in regard to the payment of costs by the local authority either to the Board or any person affected by the Order; provision shall be made by such Order for the incorporation therein of the Lands Clauses Acts and (with the necessary modifications) of Sections six and seventy to seventy-eight of the Railway Clauses Consolidation (Scotland) Act 1845. It shall be the duty the local authority to serve a copy of any Order so made in the manner and upon the persons in which and upon whom notices in respect of such land as hereinbefore required to he served. together with a statement that the Cider will become final and have the effect of au Act of Parliament, unless within two months a memorial shall be presented to the Secretary for Scotland praying that the Order shall not become law without confirmation by Parliament.
  (5.) If no memorial shall be presented as aforesaid, the Order shall become final anti have the effect of an Act of Parliament.
  (6.) if a memorial has been presented to the Secretary for Scotland, it shall be lawful for him, as soon as conveniently may be, to submit such Order to Parliament for confirmation, and any Act passed to confirm such Order shall be deemed to be a Public General Act of Parliament.
  (7.) Every Bill for confirming any such Order shall, after the Second Reading in the House in which it originates, be referred to a

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  Select Committee, or, if the two Houses of Parliament think fit so to order, to a Joint Committee.
  (8.) If, before the expiration of seven days after the Second Reading of any such Confirmation Bill in the House in which it originates, a petition is presented against any Order comprised therein, the petitioner shall be allowed to appear and oppose by- himself, his agents, and witnesses.
  (9.) The Committee, by a majority, may award costs, which shall, unless the Committee direct, include all costs from the date of the memorial.
  (10.) All costs, charges, and expenses incurred in relation to any such Order or Provisional Order shall, to such amount as the Board think proper to direct, become a charge upon the public health general assessment, or special sewer assessment or special water assessment levied in the district, or special drainage district or special water supply district, as the case may be, to which such Order or Provisional Order relates.
  (11.)—(a) Any question of disputed compensation under an Order or Provisional Order made under this section shall be referred to the arbitration of a sole arbiter appointed by the parties, or if the parties do not concur in the appointment of a sole arbiter, then, on the application of either of them, by the Lord Ordinary on the Bills, and the remuneration to be paid to the arbiter shall be fixed by the Lord Ordinary. An arbiter appointed under this sub-section shall be deemed to be a sole arbiter within the meaning of the Lands Clauses Acts, and the provisions of those Acts with respect to an arbitration shall apply accordingly; and the arbiter shall, notwithstanding anything in the said Acts, determine the amount of the expenses in the arbitration, and such determination shall be final; and
  (b) In construing for the purposes Of this section any Acts incorporated with, or put in force under, this section, this Act, together with any Order or Provisional Order under this section, shall be deemed to be the special Act.
  (12.) At any inquiry or arbitration held under this section, the person or persons holding the inquiry or arbitration shall hear any authorities or parties whose interests would be affected, by themselves or their counsel or agents, and may hear witnesses.
  (13.) The Board shall not make any Order for purchasing the whole or any part of any park, garden, pleasure-ground, or other land required for the amenity or convenience of any dwelling-house, or any land the property of a railway company or canal company which is or may be required for the purposes of their undertaking, or any land which, in the opinion of the Board, is being held or may be required for the extension of a factory or public work.
  (14.) The Board shall, in making an Order for purchasing land, have regard to the extent of land held in the neighbourhood by any owner, and to the convenience of other property belonging to the same owner, and shall, as far as is practicable, avoid taking an undue or inconvenient quantity of land from any one owner.
  MR. EDMUND ROBERTSONmoved in Sub-section (1) to leave out the words:—
  "every such plan shall be drawn on a scale of not less than four inches to a mile, and the book of reference shall contain the names of the owners and lessees, or reputed owners and lessees, and of the occupiers of the lands which may be taken."
  He said this was the first of a series of Amendments which were designed to reverse the decision of the Committee upstairs, the object being to substitute for procedure by way of Provisional Order procedure by way of Departmental Order before putting in force the provisions of the Lands Clauses Acts with respect to the purchase and taking of land otherwise than by agreement. The object of the Amendment was to strengthen the hands of the local authorities. A. Provisional Order would limit their power and encumber them with expenses which they believed to be unnecessary. It was most important that in the case of public and local authorities of all kinds, charged with duties the due performance of which required the acquisition of land, that delegation should carry with it the exercise of all powers necessary to make it possible for them to carry out those duties efficiently. There was a precedent for this proposal given for the first time to a great public department, and he contended that the power ought to apply to every department of government. Last year there was a Naval Works scheme in which this power to obtain land by compulsion was given for all purposes; and it was a wholesome and sound principle to adopt for all branches of government.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid he was afraid that he must follow his usual course and uphold the decision of the Committee on this point. If he thought that the local authority was really going to be hampered in the acquisition of land he confessed that he would be moved by the appeal of his lion. Friend: but what did a local authority want land for? Practically the purposes were three: (1) water supply; (2) the putting down of sewers; (3) for sewage irrigation works. Already in Section 103 they had given the widest powers in the matter of sewage, giving local authorities power to lay sewers where they chose on payment of compensation, but not driving them to

  1333
  acquire land. Sewage irrigation works were a very serious undertaking. In the interests not only of the individual but of the neighbourhood it would be wrong to give a power to undertake works suddenly for sewage irrigation at the simple instance of any department, and not to give the individual or the public generally the protection which the Provisional Order system conferred. As to water supply, he had, so far as carrying the water mains were concerned, accepted an Amendment of the hon. Member for Mid Lanark, granting power to the local authorities to lay sewage pipes within their districts. But in this Bill the powers of the Burgh Police (Scotland) Act, 1892, were kept alive with regard to the provision of a water supply. Section 162 of that Act made a just distinction in favour of burghs which had less than 5,000 inhabitants, and where they wanted a water supply, if the Commissioners resolved that it was necessary to acquire land otherwise than by agreement, they might present a petition to the Sheriff and obtain his authority to enforce the provisions of the Lands Clauses Act. For the purposes, therefore, of sewage and water supply to small communities the powers sought had already been obtained. What was left was large water schemes costing half a million or a million. Here there ought to be the protection of the Provisional Order system, because if it was not for that system some persons might be hardly treated. On those grounds he resisted the Amendment.
  MR. H. H. ASQUITHsaid that the Amendment raised a question of considerable importance, and if the Government adhered to the Bill as it stood he thought the House would be taking a retrograde step. His hon. Friend's proposal was not a novel one, because he suggested in the incorporation of tins Bill provisions which were already to be found in the English Local Government Act of 1891, the Scottish Local Government Act of the same year, and the Light Railways Act which the Government passed last Session. All the Lord Advocate's arguments might have been used with equal force against any one of these proposals, particularly against the proposal of the present Government to allow land to be compulsorily taken without Provisional Order for the purposes of light railways.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATE: By a Government Department.
  MR. ASQUITH: Just so; but the principle is the same. Light railways might cover a great extent of ground, and there might be grave questions of public user, and so on. The case was exactly analogous to the cases the right hon. Gentleman had set up in regard to the matter of water supply. He could not see why a procedure, which Parliament had already decided was adequate and satisfactory for the protection of all interests in the one case should not be equally adequate and satisfactory in the other. ["Hear, hear!"] The right hon. Gentleman said that the existing law, as amended by the Bill, would give sufficient powers as to sewers and water supply to small communities. He did not agree; but, even if it were so, he was obliged to admit that in Scotland communities of over 5,000 population could not avail themselves of the provisions of the Burgh Police Act. This embraced a large number of communities which. needed the provisions very badly. It was only in rare and exceptional cases that a town like Glasgow or Dundee, which did these things on a. colossal scale, would attempt to annex a large area of ground for the purposes of water supply; and they ought not to be frightened by such cases. They had to consider the cases of communities of 15,000 or 20,000 which required a new source of water supply, yet which, under this Bill, would be hampered and frustrated, and possibly altogether frustrated, by the enormous and scandalous delays and expenses attending the Provisional Order system. ["Hear, hear!"] He regretted that the Government should make this departure, and should make it at a time when they themselves were initiating legislation elsewhere for the purpose of making private Bill legislation in Scotland more convenient and more successful. The Amendment proposed would be a practical step in the same direction, and he believed that the great body of Scotch public opinion would be entirely in sympathy with it. ["Hear, hear!"]
  MR. CALDWELLsaid the Bill had been described as giving large compulsory powers as regarded sewerage; but, although there might be ample powers for acquiring land for sewers by agreement, if a man objected

  1335
  to these sewers passing through his property, the steps to be taken under the Bill were exactly the same for sewers as for any other matter under the Bill. Now in addition to the English Local Government (Parish Councils) Act, and the Parish Councils Act, as well as the Light Railways Act, all of which gave compulsory opwers, they had also the precedent of the Burgh Police Act, Section (60) of which gave compulsory powers for the acquisition of land on petition to the Sheriff, with an appeal to the Local Government Board, and there the matter ended, without the necessity of going to Parliament at all. So that there was ample precedent for giving local authorities compulsory powers to acquire land under the supervision of a State Department. The effect of this clause, therefore, was purely reactionary, because nothing could be done (unless by agreement) without getting a Provisional Order. The whole structure of the Bill was based upon that. Of course, if the Government insisted, they could do no more than protest against this reactionary legislation. All the boroughs of Scotland had opposed this form of going to Parliament for compulsory powers, and had recommended the adoption of the procedure under the 60th Section of the Burgh Police Act of 1892, passed by the late Unionist Government. Practically the Government were now going back on their own legislation of 1892, 1894, and 1896.
  MR. BUCHANANsaid this was one of the most important features of the and it was recognised as such upstairs. When the Lord Advocate enumerated the purposes for which this clause would be necessary, he omitted one of the most important purposes in public health legislation for which compulsory powers were required —viz. the acquisition of land for hospitals. In previous clauses of the Bill they had to a certain extent strengthened the legislation for providing hospitals for infectious disease. But it was well known to the Lord Advocate that there had been great impediments in the way of local health authorities acquiring land for infectious hospitals. The pinch of it was felt in all parts of the country, and in the county of Aberdeen there was no subject upon which they were more
  1336
  deeply interested, and there was no subject in connection with this Bill upon which opinion was more unanimous, irrespective of party, that the method of obtaining compulsory powers of acquiring land for building hospitals should be simplified and cheapened. The County Council had unanimously passed a resolution in favour of it, the District Councils were also in favour of it, and he had received representations from all parts of the country in the same sense. In a large district of the county of Aberdeen there were 13 parishes, with a population of 25,000 to 30,000 souls, and for half-a-dozen years they had been trying in vain to acquire a piece of land upon which to erect a hospital for infectious diseases for the district. The reason was that the whole of the centre of the district was one large estate in the hands, not of a single individual, but of a set of trustees, and these trustees absolutely refused to sell an inch of land for a hospital. The only other people who could possibly supply a piece of land were ready to do it, but in order to get water they had to apply to these trustees, and they had even refused to let them have water! So that this large community of from 25,000 to 30,000 inhabitants had been absolutely unable to provide for itself that which was essential for the preservation of the public health. Therefore, when it became known that the Government were going to bring in a comprehensive Public Health Bill for Scotland the people looked forward with confidence to the remedy of this great grievance of theirs—["hear, hear!"]—and it had been a cause of great disappointment when it was discovered that no alteration of the law was proposed with regard to the acquisition of land for this purpose. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Fife had dwelt upon the precedents bearing upon the subject. What he wished to know was, had there ever been any complaint either in England or in Scotland that the powers given by recent legislation had been abused in any way whatever? ["Hear, hear!"] He did not think there had been ever a whisper of complaint in that direction. It was absurd to suppose that a public Department was at all likely to abuse their powers in this direction; if anything, they were likely to be somewhat too tender in their application. ["Hear,

  1337
  hear!"] Excellent precedents had been set by both the present and the late Governments, and when they were bringing in a most important Bill, which had been looked forward to for a long series of years in Scotland, and which was not likely to be amended or taken up again in the immediate future, they were going to pass it into law leaving out the very mainspring of the clock. ["Hear, hear!"] He ventured to think that in refusing to accept the Amendment the Lord Advocate was rendering the most useful part of his Bill inoperative and nugatory. ["Hear, hear!"]
  SIR WALTER FOSTERsaid he was sorry the Bill was likely to pass with this defect in it with reference to the compulsory acquisition of land for public purposes. This question of the compulsory acquisition of land had been discussed on many occasions in the House of Commons in recent years on questions affecting the general well-being of localities. On this occasion it was a question which affected the general wellbeing of the whole kingdom of Scotland. They had in existing legislation several examples of power for the compulsory acquisition of land being vested in central bodies. It had been conferred, as in the case of the agricultural labourers, for the benefit of a class. Here they were asking for it for the benefit, not of a class, but of a whole community, and he regretted that there should be any possibility of its refusal. There were thousands of localities in England, and possibly hundreds of localities in Scotland, in which the health administration of rural districts was extremely defective, and one of these days, if an epidemic of disease should unfortunately get into the country—cholera, for example—a terrible mortality might occur in consequence. One of the means of avoiding a terrible disaster of that sort was to give the local authorities opportunities of carrying out, on the simplest and least expensive basis, powers of water supply, sewerage, and the isolation of disease. In all these matters they wanted stronger compulsory powers. There had been many instances in England during he last few years in which the local authorities would have been only too willing to undertake works of sewerage, but had been prevented from carrying them out by the high prices they were obliged to
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  pay for land and by the expensive procedure which the ordinary Acts of Parliament had hitherto imposed upon them. There had been several instances in which the erection of hospitals which were wanted for the purpose of isolating disease had been prevented by the costliness and complexity of the Provisional Order system. Surely the Government ought to try to make the acquisition of land by local authorities for useful purposes as simple as possible. They all hated the idea of compulsion, but he believed that if the Amendment were agreed to it would be seldom, if ever, necessary to resort to compulsion. The mere fact that compulsory powers existed had a tendency to dissipate difficulties. For example, as a result of the existence of the compulsory clauses of the Local Government Act of 1894, thousands of labourers' allotments had been provided without compulsion. The existence of such clauses had an effect upon selfish landlords and deterred them from opposing demands which were made in the interests of the community. Surely if it were thought right to give compulsory powers in order that allotments might be acquired, it must also be considered right to insert such powers in this Bill, which had been introduced for the purpose of protecting the public health. Ho trusted that the Lord Advocate would reconsider this matter.
  CAPTAIN SINCLAIRhoped that the precedent set in 1894, when compulsory powers for the acquisition of land for public purposes were given to local authorities, would be followed on this occasion, and that the Government would not go back upon the position which they took up in 1894 with the support of both Houses. A local authority wanting to acquire a quarter of an acre of land for the erection, say, of a mortuary or slaughter-house, would, under the Bill as it stood, be quite helpless if the owner of the land should refuse to sell at a reasonable price. His hon. Friend proposed that cases of this kind should be entrusted to the discretion of the Local Government Board in Scotland. In 1894 it was admitted that there must be full public inquiries for the protection of public and private interests in cases where land was to be compulsorily acquired. That was a salutary provision which it would be wise to adhere to. The

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  refusal of the Government to accept this Amendment would cause great regret in Scotland.
  DR. FARQUHARSONthought the Lord Advocate had not given the House quite enough information on this subject. The right hon. Gentleman assumed, apparently, that all the Scotch Members had sat on the Committee that had considered this Bill, and that they had all heard the discussions upon these various topics. That, of course, was an erroneous assumption. He supported the Amendment because be believed that it would promote efficiency and economy. Provisional Orders were, as a. rule, extremely expensive things, and when recourse was had to them a grievous burden was generally imposed upon the locality. The Amendment provided adequate safeguards for all vested interests. In the Debates that had taken place on the subject of private Bill legislation, it had been proposed that larger powers should be given to local authorities, and he, for one, should have complete faith in their discretion. The Members of local representative bodies had their seats to consider, and were therefore unlikely to disregard the opinions of the people whom they represented. In conclusion, he would observe that the Scotch Members sitting on the upper side, of the House were solid in their support of the Amendment.
  MR. JOHN COLVILLEremarked that the expense of Provisional Orders frequently deterred Town Councils and parochial County Councils from undertaking most necessary public improvements. In his own constituency, where certain water works were proposed to be established, the cost of obtaining the necessary powers by Provisional Order imposed a very serious tax upon the community. He did not see why provision should not be made in this Bill for enabling local authorities to obtain land at a reasonable price, subject to the approval of the Local Government Board.
  DR. CLARKasked the First Lord of the Treasury whether he was really prepared to disregard the precedent set in the Local Government Act of 1894 merely because the Committee upstairs by a small majority, when less than one-third of the Committee were present, came to this decision? The permissive
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  powers which the Amendment proposed to confer on the Local Government Board were already exercised by the Board of Trade, and it was highly desirable that they should now be conferred on the Local Government. Board in the interests of the health of the community. He appealed to the First Lord of the Treasury whether he was going on the present occasion to go back and take away the powers from the local bodies which they now desired to give to the central authority. The Local Government Board was entirely responsible to Parliament, and the fear of their action being debated in the House would induce them to do their work carefully. Procedure by Provisional Order was a most costly method, so costly that any town wanting a water supply would rather proceed by private Bill. Not a single real objection had been raised against this proposal.
  MR. R. WALLACEsaid he had not had the privilege of being a. member of the Committee, and he did not know that he had lost a great deal in consequence, except, perhaps, a considerable amount of honourable suffering. He understood that the. Lord Advocate had no objection to trust the Local Government Board with schemes affecting comparatively small communities, but thought that large schemes ought not to be entrusted to them; that when anything very expensive was to be dealt with it deserved the dignity of being considered by two Committees in Parliament. It seemed to him that the Local Government Board was as capable of dealing with schemes of this description, however expensive they might be, as a Committee of the House of Commons or the House of Lords. Dignity did not help the incompetent. [Laughter.] He did not see how the simple fact of the Local Government Board being to a certain extent in a less dignified position than public opinion assigned to the two Houses of Parliament detracted from the competence of that body. ["Hear, hear!"] To his mind it was a question of comparative business capacity, and he thought that the Local Government Board was the superior authority in these matters. The only difference he knew of was that in Committees of the two Houses of Parliament there might be a more powerful representation of the

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  landlord prejudice, but he had yet to learn that that told in favour of the public interest. ["Hear, hear!"] If it was necessary that Parliament should exercise a supervising power in these matters, it might be provided that no Order of the Local Government Board should become law until it had laid on the Table of both Houses of Parliament for a certain time. He had no hesitation in uniting with his hon. colleagues, and insisting on compulsory powers being given to the Local Government Board.
  MR. ALEXANDER UREsaid that the Lord Advocate had contended that it was desirable to afford full protection to all interests concerned, and that that was secured better by proceeding under Provisional Order than by any other proceeding. What was the additional protection Was it in the composition of the tribunal? The Lord Advocate could not say that the Local Government Board for Scotland would not, as a tribunal, afford sufficient security to the interests involved. Then was the protection in the method of inquiry? It was obvious that an inquiry conducted by a Commission representing the Local Government Board would not be less satisfactory than an inquiry by a Committee upstairs. When they faced tie facts, they found that the additional protection afforded by the Provisional Order system was the great expense and delay that attended it, and its cumbersome procedure. Was it fair to place such a. hindrance in the way of great; public undertakings because they necessarily involved sonic small trespass on the rights of private proprietors? Would it not be much better to adopt the simpler and more rapid procedure suggested by his hon. Friend? ["Hear, hear!"]
  MR. AUGUSTINE BIRRELLsaid that the multiplication of speeches on a subject like this was rather a barbarous way of bringing pressure to bear on the Lord Advocate, but it was the only way hon. Members had of expressing the feelings of their constituencies. Representing a constitatency which was very full of growing and important communities, very much alive to their social duties, he could only say that it would be most disappointing to the inhabitants if the Lord Advocate adhered
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  to this part of the Bill. It was not suggested for a moment that these powers should be entrusted to a foolish and irresponsible body, but to a body in whom the people of Scotland had great confidence.
  Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill."
  The House divided:—Ayes, 108; Noes, 54. (Division List, No. 338.)
  Amendment made: Leave out "Lord Ordinary on the Bills," and insert "Board."
  MR. E. ROBERTSONmoved at the end of the clause to add,—
  (15.) "In determining the amount of disputed compensation the arbiter shall not make any allowance in respect of the purchase being compulsory."
  He said this Amendment was one which had caused so much Parliamentary discussion that lie did not see the necessity of going into the question on that occasion. It was not, in fact, their object to invite discussion.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATErecognised the courtesy with which the Amendment had been moved, but he must oppose it.
  DR. CLARKsaid the Government and the majority of the Members of the House always acted in the interest of the landlords, and all the supporters of the Amendment could do was to protest by a Division.
  Question put, "That those words be there inserted."
  The House divided: —Ayes, 47; Noes, 105.—(Division List, No. 339).
  On the return of Mr. SPEAKER after the usual interval.
  Clause 146,—

  PROCEDURE IF LOCAL AUTHORITY NEGLECT ITS DUTY UNDER THIS ACT.
  (1.) If any nuisance shall exist upon or in premises possessed or managed by the local authority, or in which the local authority have any interest, or if the local authority shall fail or neglect to perform any duty imposed upon them by this Act, or to take all due proceedings in this Act authorised for the removal of nuisances or preservation of health, or due regulation of lodging houses, or for any other

  1343
  of the purposes of this Act, it shall be competent for any five householders residing within the district, or for the procurator fiscal of the sheriff or justice of the peace court of the county, or of the burgh court, or for the Board, to give written notice to such local authority of the matters in which such neglect exists; and if the local authority do not within fourteen days after such notice, or, in the case of neglect to enforce any regulation or direction of the Board under Part IV. of this Act, within two days after such notice, remove or remedy the nuisance referred to, or in any other case neglect to take the steps authorised or required by or under this Act, it shall be competent for the parties aforesaid, or any one of them, to apply to the sheriff by summary petition, and the sheriff shall thereupon inquire into the same, and may make such decree as shall in his judgment be required to enforce the removal or remedy of the nuisance, or otherwise to compel execution of or carry out the provisions and purposes of this Act, and may appoint the same to be carried into effect by and at the sight of such persons as he may think fit, and at the expense of the local authority, or of other parties on whom the expense ought in his opinion to be laid, and for payment of the expenses of such application by the petitioners or by the local authority or other party, as justice may require: Provided always, that in regard to any nuisance for the removal of which drainage works are necessary, the sheriff or other judge or court may suspend consideration of the complaint for such time as may seem proper, in order to enable a. general system of drainage under any general or local Act or otherwise to be carried out, the better to remove such nuisances.

  PROCEDURE UNDER BURIAL GROUNDS (SCOTLAND) ACT.
  (2.) It shall be competent for the Board, or for any local authority, or for any parish council, to present a petition to the sheriff, under the fourth section of the Burial Grounds (Scotland) Act 1855, to the same effect, and to be followed out in like manner as if presented by any of the persons or parties therein mentioned.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEin Sub-section (1) moved to leave out "five householders," and insert "ten ratepayers."
  DR. CLARKtrusted the Lord Advocate would not make this change in the law. It was proposed for the sake of uniformity. He objected to both alterations—"ten" instead of "five," and "ratepayers" instead of "householders." At the present time if a nuisance existed any five householders residing within the district might intimate this nuisance to the local authority, and then, if the local authority did not abate it within fourteen days, they had the right to go to the Sheriff and ask him to compel the local authority to abate the nuisance. If the
  1344
  local authorities neglected their duty, why should not any persons who were suffering from a nuisance have the right to go to the Sheriff Of course, unless they could prove that there was a nuisance they would have to pay the costs. Was it likely that any person would go to the Sheriff unless he had a good case? It was the persons interested, whether ratepayers or not, who should have the right. As to the number of ten it was no doubt very easy to get that number in the Lowlands, which were fairly well populated, but in the sparsely populated districts of the Highlands it would be very difficult indeed to do so. The difficulty would be all the greater because they had in the Highlands a number of crofters who were not ratepayers at all. They might suffer from disease because of the non-abatement of a nuisance, but still, if this Amendment were carried, as they were not ratepayers they would have no voice in the matter at all. Where it was a question of spending money the ratepayers might very well be consulted, but when it was a question of a nuisance he thought that householders, even if they were not ratepayers, should be allowed to take action.
  *MR. WEIRcontended that so far as the Highlands were concerned this would prove an unreasonable and unworkable Amendment. In many of the small Highlands townships it would be impossible to get ten ratepayers, and if the Lord Advocate pressed this Amendment he should move to exempt the Highland counties from its operation.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid that of all the clauses in the Bill this was one upon which action should not be taken at the instance of anybody, but at the instance of some representative body. It was obvious that what this clause proposed should be clone only when there was a real public feeling about it, and he knew the Highlands well enough to know that if action were necessary the finding of ten ratepayers would not be an impossibility. In the Committee they agreed that ten ratepayers should be inserted, and it was a mere accident that it was not put in in this particular clause. The hon. Member for Caithness was quite wrong in the reasons he gave to the House. It was, said the hon. Member, right enough to adopt such an Amendment as this where it was a question of

  1345
  spending money, but wrong where it was not a question of spending money, but of abating a nuisance. The hon. Member seemed to forget that the discussion in Committee upon which they finally adopted the modus vivendi of the ten ratepayers was upon Clause 22, which had nothing in the world to do with spending money, but related entirely to the question of nuisances. In proposing this Amendment he was simply carrying out the understanding come to with both sides in the Committee.
  Question put, "That the words 'five householders' stand part of the Bill."
  The House divided: —Ayes, 51; Noes, 119.—(Division List, No. 340.)
  Words "ten ratepayers" inserted.
  *MR. WEIRmoved to insert after the words last added the words "or in the crofting counties of the Highlands five householders." To insist upon ten ratepayers in some of the Highland districts would be to make the clause unworkable. In some of the small townships he really did not know how ten ratepayers could be got together.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid he could not, of course, accept the Amendment, and he scarcely thought the hon. Member appreciated the limited point the clause dealt with. It provided for the special case where a local authority themselves on their own premises created a nuisance. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes in fact, and it was not expedient to allow anybody to worry a local authority by simply getting together a very few men of the district.
  DR. CLARKsaid his hon. Friend would probably not persevere with the Amendment, and he only desired to say that this was now the law in Scotland, and had been the law for thirty years by the Act passed in 1867, and though he now proposed to change it, the Lord Advocate had not shown any case in which the law had been abused. It was a retrograde step, and no goal reason had been assigned for it.
  Amendment negatived.
  Amendments made: Leave out "or Justice of the Peace," and "or the
  1346
  burgh court"; leave out "or other Judge or court."—(Lord Advocate.)
  DR. CLARKdesired to know why these words were taken out.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid this was the procedure in a case which would not be frequent, where the local authority would be pulled up for neglect of duty, and he thought in such an exceptional case the tribunal should be the Sheriff's Court, not a police or burgh magistrate, very worthy persons, no doubt, but not such as should hold the scales and determine points of difference of this kind, involving the conduct of a local authority.
  Amendment agreed to.
  Clause 158,—

  JUSTICES, ETC., BEING MEMBERS OF LOCAL AUTHORITY MAY ACT.
  The sheriff, justices of the peace, or magistrates may in all cases, notwithstanding their being members of the local authority, exercise the jurisdiction vested in them under this Act.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEproposed to leave out "for any period not exceeding fourteen days," mid to insert "in accordance with the provisions of the Summary Jurisdiction Acts."
  MR. CALDWELLsaid he quite saw what the Lord Advocate's object was in embodying the procedure of the Summary Jurisdiction Acts, but the cases were hardly such as those contemplated by those Acts. Throughout the Bill there was an abstention from giving power of imprisonment, and in cases where it was given it had been put into the hands of the Sheriff's Court. It was a pity to extend the power to magistrates in relation to these offences.
  DR. CLARKsaid that if the Government would make changes in the law which had been in operation for over 30 years, he thought the House ought to be made aware of why they were snaking those changes. They were now making a revolutionary change, and he would ask the Lord Advocate to give them some reason for it.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid he was very sorry he had paid the hon. Member the undeserved compliment of supposing that he had an ordinary memory. This clause was introduced at the instance of hon. Members from the Opposition side of the House. He thought it was the hon. Baronet for the Bridgeton

  1347
  Division who said it was a great pity to have a sliding scale of punishments, and suggested that they should make the Bill to correspond with the Summary Jurisdiction Act. That was hailed with acclamation by those who represented the views of the hon. Member, and he then and there gave a promise to look into the matter and make the Bill in accordance with the Summary Jurisdiction Act. That he had done, and now the hon. Member accused him of making revolutionary changes.
  Words inserted.
  Clause 154,—

  FORM OF APPLICATION TO THE SHERIFF, ETC.
  All applications to enforce any provision of this Act, or for the recovery of penalties herein imposed, or other sums of money becoming due to the local authority in virtue of this Act, in so far as not herein otherwise provided for, may be by summary petition, and such petition may refer to the sections of this Act on which it is founded, without setting forth the same; and the sheriff, magistrate, or justice shall thereupon, if he see fit, appoint the petition to be answered within three days after service, or may order the parties to attend him in person, and on advising such answer, or hearing the parties, or on the respondent failing to appear, he may at once decern, or may appoint any competent person to examine the premises and report to him, and may decern on such report, or he may, if either party desire it, order proof to be led before himself on any specified points, and shall in that case appoint a day, not more than five days thereafter, for hearing such proof, and if the proof be not on that day completed may adjourn the same from time to time until completed, and within three days after such completion he shall give decree, and lie may find either party liable in expenses, or in any modified sum of expenses, and may, without prejudice to diligence by poinding or arrestment, grant warrant for the imprisonment of the person convicted or found liable in a penalty or sum of money, unless he shall pay the whole sums found due within a specified time, until the same be paid, such imprisonment not to exceed a specified time, but the judgment shall not be invalidated by any deviation from any of the said periods of time.
  Amendment made: Leave out from "imprisonment" to end of clause, and insert "to be in accordance with the provisions of the Summary Jurisdiction Acts."—(Lord Advocate).
  Clause 157,—

  NO APPEAL OTHERWISE.
  No appeal shall be competent from any decree or order of any magistrate or justice, or from the decree or order of any sheriff, except in cases certified in terms of the preceding
  1348
  section; and no decree or order, or any other proceeding, matter, or thing done in the execution of this Act, shall, excepting as herein provided, be subject to review in any way whatever.
  Amendment made: At beginning insert "Save in so far as otherwise provided."—(Lord Advocate).
  Clause 164,—

  COMPENSATION TO BE MADE.
  Full compensation shall be made, out of any fund or assessment applicable to the purposes of this Act, to all persons sustaining any damage by reason of the exercise of any of the powers of this Act, except when otherwise specially provided; and in case of dispute, if the sum claimed do not exceed the sum of fifty pounds sterling, the same may be ascertained on a summary application by either party to the sheriff, whose decision shall be final and not subject to review, unless when pronounced by the sheriff substitute, in which case it may be reviewed by the sheriff on appeal; and when the sum claimed exceeds fifty pounds sterling, such compensation shall be ascertained and disposed of by a sole arbiter appointed in manner set forth in Sub-section eleven of Section one hundred and forty-four of this Act.
  Amendment made: Leave out "forty-four" and insert "forty-five."—(Lord Advocate).
  Clause 167,—

  AS TO FORMS TO BE USED.
  The forms contained in the Second Schedule to this Act annexed, or any forms to the like effect, may be used for the purposes of this Act, and shall be sufficient therefor, and all proceedings or documents under this Act may be wholly or partly printed.
  Amendment made: After "partly," insert "written or."—(Lord Advocate).
  Clause 171,—

  POWERS OF ACT CUMULATIVE.
  All powers given by this Act shall be deemed to be in addition to, and not in derogation of, any power conferred by Act of Parliament not hereby specifically repealed, or any law or custom, and may be exercised in the same manner as if this Act had not passed, but without prejudice to the powers conferred by this Act.
  Amendment made: After "and," insert "such last-mentioned powers."—(Lord Advocate).
  Clause 171,—

  CHARGE FOR MEDICAL OFFICER ATTENDING SICK ON BOARD ANY SHIP, AND TO BE PAID BY CAPTAIN.
  Whenever, in compliance with any regulation of the Board which they may be empowered

  1349
  to make under this Act, any medical officer employed by a local authority performs any medical service on board any ship the local authority shall be entitled to charge for such service, and such charge shall be payable by the captain of such ship on behalf of the owners thereof, together with any reasonable expenses for the treatment of the sick, and in the event of dispute the amount shall be determined by the sheriff in a summary manner; and if such services shall be rendered by any medical practitioner who is not a medical officer of the local authority, ho shall be entitled to charge for any service rendered on board, with extra remuneration on account of distance, at the same rates as those which he is in the habit of receiving from private patients of the class of those attended and treated on shipboard, to be paid as aforesaid; and in case such charges be not paid, the medical officer or practitioner may bring an action against the person in charge of such ship for the same, and the ship, cargo, and tackle thereof, shall be subject to a lien for the amount of such charges.
  Amendment made: Leave out "may be," and insert "are hereby."—(Lord Advocate).
  Clause 176,—

  BYELAWS AS TO REGULATION OF BUILDINGS.
  (1.) The local authority of any district other than a burgh may, subject to the approval of the county council, make byelaws for the whole or any part of their district for regulating the building or rebuilding of houses or buildings, or the use for human habitation of any building not previously so used, or any alteration in the mode of occupancy of any existing house in such a manner as will increase the number of separate houses in respect to the following matters:

  (a.) The drainage of the subsoil of sites for the prevention of dampness in houses intended for human habitation.

  (b.) The structure of walls, foundations, roofs, and chimneys of new buildings in so far as likely to affect human health.

  (c.) The ventilation of houses and buildings intended for human habitation.

  (d.) The sufficiency of the space above buildings to secure a free circulation of air.

  (e.) The construction and arrangement of the drainage of houses and buildings and of soil-pipes and waste-pipes, and the construction and position of water-closets, earth-closets, privies, ash-pits, cess-pools, dungsteads, slopsinks, and rainwater pipes and rhones.

  (f.) The production of suitable building plans in respect of the matters in this section mentioned, and their inspection.

  (g.) The intimation previous to the commencement, by the owner or person laying out the work to the local authority, of the date of the commencement, and for the due inspection in respect of the matters in this section mentioned, of houses or buildings in process of erection or alteration, and the examination of drains thereof, and for the pulling down, alteration, or amendment of any work
  1350
  which has been carried out in contravention of the byelaws.

  (2.) In making such byelaws the local authority shall have regard to the special circumstances of their district or the part thereof to which such byelaws relate.
  Amendment made: In paragraph (d) leave out "above" and insert "about."—(Captain Sinclair).
  CAPTAIN SINCLAIRmoved in paragraph (d) after "air," insert "including the level, width, and construction of new streets." The Amendment, he said, was intended to make less vague the sub-clause of the Bill. It was in order to enable local authorities to prevent insanitary conditions arising which, under the present system, they had to cure at very great cost and expense to themselves. It was a power which was desired by many local authorities.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid he could not accept the Amendment. If these words were introduced it would extend the Dean of Guild jurisdiction in the towns. He had always opposed that and he opposed it in Committee, and he thought the majority was of the same view.
  CAPTAIN SINCLAIRasked what "sufficiency" meant if it did not include the space in front of the house, which meant the width of the streets?
  DR. CLARKasked how did they intend to attain their object under paragraph (d)?
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid they had just put in the word "about."
  MR. CALDWELLthought it was very important that there should be power given with regard to the width and construction of streets for this reason, that if a street was once formed in those districts, even though they were afterwards formed into burghs, the street remained in its old condition. He thought these words were essential. They should deal with the subject now instead of allowing the streets to be stereotyped and afterwards, when a burgh was formed, always being a source of annoyance and nuisance to the whole burgh.
  MR. C. B. RENSHAWthought it would be a singularly unfortunate proposal if in this Bill they were to give the local authority power to deal with a question which did not properly come within

  1351
  their jurisdiction at all, but which was entirely under the jurisdiction and administration of the road authority.
  MR. UREwas understood to say that the
  object desired could be carried out by the clause as it stood.
  Amendment negatived.
  Clause 180,—

  CONFIRMATION OF BYELAWS.
  Byelaws made by a local authority under this Act shall not take effect unless and until they have been submitted to and confirmed by the Board, who are hereby empowered to allow, modify, or disallow the same as they may think proper; nor shall any such bye-laws be confirmed
  Unless notice of intention to apply for confirmation of the same has been given in one or more of the local newspapers circulated within or by handbill posted throughout the district to which such byelaws relate, one month at least before the making of such application; and
  Unless for one month at least before any such application is considered a copy of the proposed byelaws has been kept at the office of the local authority, and in the case of districts other than burghs at the office of the parish council of every parish to which such byelaws relate, and has been open during office hours thereat to the inspection of the ratepayers of the district to which such bye-laws relate, without fee or reward.
  Any persons aggrieved by any proposed bye-law, or by any proposed alteration of a bye-law, may within such last-mentioned month, forward notice of his objection to the Board, who shall consider the same before granting confirmation.
  The clerk of the local authority shall, on the application of any such ratepayer, furnish him with a copy of such proposed byelaws or any part thereof, on payment of sixpence for every hundred words contained in such copy.
  A byelaw required to be confirmed by the Board shall not require confirmation, allowance, or approval by any other authority.
  Amendments made: Leave out "handbill" and insert "handbills"; leave out "required to be "and insert "when."—(Lord Advocate).
  Clause 184,—

  ACT NOT TO AFFECT NAVIGATION OF RIVERS OR CANALS, OR IRRIGATION OF LANDS.
  Nothing in this Act contained shall enable any local authority or other person to injuriously affect—

  (1.) The irrigation of lands in a rural district, or the supply of water used for such irrigation;

  1352

  (2.) The supply of water required for the purposes of any waterworks established by or under the provisions of any Act of Parliament, or of the compensation water required to be given by the owners of such waterworks, unless the local authority shall have previously obtained the consent of such owners;

  (3.) The navigation on or use of any river, canal, dock, harbour, lock, reservoir, or basin in respect of which any persons are by virtue of any Act of Parliament entitled to take tolls or dues, or the supply of water to the same, or any bridges crossing the same, or any towing-path thereon:

  Provided always, that it shall not be lawful for the local authority to execute any works in, through, or under any wharves, quays, docks, harbours, locks, reservoirs, or basins without the consent in writing in every case of the persons entitled by virtue of any Act of Parliament to take tolls or dues in respect thereof, and such persons may at their own expense, and on substituting other sewers, drains, culverts, and pipes equally effectual, and certified as such by the inspector to the local authority, take up, divert, or alter the level of any sewers and drains, culverts or pipes, constructed by any local authority, and passing under or interfering with such rivers, canals, docks, harbours, reservoirs, or basins, or the towing-paths thereof, and do all such matters and things as may be necessary for carrying into effect such taking up, diversion, or alteration.
  Amendments made: After "shall" ["shall enable"] insert "prejudice or affect or shall."—(Lord Advocate).
  At the end of Sub-section (3) insert: —
  (4.) The purification of any river or stream in respect of which any persons are by virtue of any Act of Parliament authorised to exercise jurisdiction, or the rights, powers, jurisdictions, and authorities conferred by such Act.—(Sir Lewis M'Iver.)
  Clause 187,—

  SAVING OF LOCAL ACTS.
  Nothing in this Act shall supersede the provisions of any local Act applicable to any burgh or the forms of prosecutions and procedure in use therein, but the provisions of this Act shall operate to confer additional powers on the local authorities of such burghs, and the before-mentioned forms and procedure may be used therein in all prosecutions under this Act. And where in any such local Act the Public Health Acts or any clauses thereof are referred to or made applicable to any burgh, such reference and application shall be deemed to mean and include a reference to and application of this Act or the corresponding clauses thereof and all amendments thereof.
  Amendments made: Before "Nothing," insert "(1)"; after "supersede," insert "prejudice or affect"; leave out the words,—
  "and where in any such local Act the Public Health Acts or any clauses thereof are referred to or made applicable to any burgh, such reference and application shall be deemed to mean and include a reference to and application of this Act or the corresponding clauses thereof and all amendments thereof."
  and insert,—
  (2.) Nothing contained in this Act shall prejudice or affect the provisions of any local Act under which any authority is constituted for supplying water within any district or limits created by such Act.
  For the purposes of this and the immediately succeeding section the expression "local Act" includes a Provisional Order and the Act confirming such Order.—(Lord Advocate.)
  Clause. 189,—

  PROVISION FOR CERTAIN SPECIAL DRAINAGE OR WATER SUPPLY DISTRICTS.
  Where a special drainage or special water supply district formed before the passing of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1889, is wholly within a police burgh formed after the passing of the said Act, the burgh commissioners shall be the local authority for such special district, and the expense incurred by the commissioners for drainage or water supply within the same or for the purposes thereof, and the stuns necessary for payment of any money borrowed or to be borrowed for drainage or water supply purposes shall be paid out of a special drainage or water assessment which the commissioners shall raise and levy on and within such special district in the same manner as these assessments were levied before such district was included in a police burgh.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEmoved to omit the clause.
  SIR W. WEDDERBURNhoped the right hon. and learned Gentleman would reconsider his decision to leave out this clause, which simply preserved the status quo as regarded valuation and one or two other matters. For changing the status quo there ought to be good reasons, and he did not know of any reason in this instance except that of producing uniformity. There were, however, good reasons against the change, and one was that the effect of changing the valuation would be to take the burden off the richer ratepayer and put it upon the poorer. Under the Poor Law Act, 1845, the different properties were classified, and at present the richer properties were classified so as to pay upon their full valuation, less 33 per cent., whilst the shopkeeper, the poorer ratepayer, paid on his full valuation, less 25 per cent.
  1354
  It was now suggested that a railway company, the richer ratepayer, should be remitted 75 per cent., while shopkeeprs should pay upon the full valuation. The Lord Advocate was good enough to introduce this clause in deference to the representations made on behalf of the burgh of Keith, and he hoped the right hon. and learned Gentleman would not now drop it out of the Bill. The clause would cause no injustice to any other place, but it would give satisfaction to the people of the burgh affected.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid he could not yield to the appeal of the hon. Member, who had not quite accurately stated the whole circumstances of the case. In t he Act of 1889 there was a clause of this kind. Under the Public Health Act the public health rate in burghs was levied entirely upon the occupier; but the Local Government Act of 1889 provided that if there was a specially rated district which had been formed while it was still in the county, and it was then entirely absorbed into a borough formed after the date of the Act of 1889, the rate there should go upon the county basis, half upon the owner and half upon the occupier. The Committee to which this Bill was referred changed the incidence of the burgh rate and made it half upon the owner and half upon the occupier. He was now asked to leave in a clause which as far as he knew would apply to the burgh of Keith alone. He did not see why they should mete out special treatment of Keith. Besides, the grievance, such as it was, was rather less than the hon. Member represented. The hon. Member forgot that the exempting clause so far as railways were concerned provided that stations, depôts, and buildings should be assessable to the same extent as other lands and buildings within a burgh. The exemption, therefore, only applied to the railway lines proper.
  *MR. SPEAKERsaid it seemed to him that the omission of this clause would alter the incidence of taxation.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid that it would alter the incidence of taxation upon some individuals. If that was the Speaker's ruling he would move the omission after the Bill had been re-committed.
  *MR. SPEAKERthought that that would be the proper course.
  Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

  FIRST SCHEDULE.
  ENACTMENTS REPEALED.

  Session and Chapter.

  Short Title.

  Extent of Repeal.

  30 & 31 Vict. c. 101

  …

  Public Health (Scotland) Act 1867

  The whole Act.

  34 & 35 Vict. c. 38

  …

  Public Health (Scotland) Amendment Act 1871

  The whole Act.

  38 & 39 Vict. c. 74

  …

  Public Health (Scotland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1875

  The whole Act.

  45 Vict. c. 11

  …

  Public Health (Scotland) Act 1867, Amendment Act 1882

  The whole Act.

  53 & 54 Vict. c. 20

  …

  Public Health Amendment (Scotland) Act 1890

  The whole Act.

  57 & 58 Vict. c. 58

  …

  Local Government (Scotland) Act 1894

  In sub-section six of section forty-four, the words "as ascertained for the purposes of the Poor Law (Scotland) Act
  1845."

  59 & 60 Vict. c. 19

  …

  Public Health Act 1896

  The whole Act (except the repeals therein contained.) in so far as it relates to Scotland.

  *THE LORD ADVOCATEmoved, between lines 15 and 16, to insert:—

  Session and Chapter.

  Short Title.

  Extent of Repeal.

  52 & 53 Vic., c. 50

  …

  Local Government (Scotland) Act 1889

  In sub-section three of section eighty-one, the words "and the assessments in respect of the drainage and water supply
  shall be levied in the same manner as they were before such district was formed into a police burgh."

  DR. CLARKsaid that this would change the incidence of taxation, and therefore came under the Speaker's ruling.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEremarked that the Amendment was consequential upon the last Amendment.
  Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
  Bill re-committed in respect of Amendments to Clauses 122 and 189, and to the First Schedule, and of New Clauses relating to Port Sanitary Authorities. —(Lord Advocate.)
  Bill considered in Committee, and reported, with Amendments; as amended, considered; read the Third time, and passed.

  EDUCATION (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  As amended, considered.
  Clause 2,—

  AID GRANT OF 3s. PER CIHLD TO VOLUNTARY SCHOOLS.
  For aiding voluntary schools there shall be annually paid out of moneys provided by Parliament an aid grant equal to three shillings per child for the whole number of children in average attendance in those schools, and that grant shall be distributed in such manner and in accordance with such conditions as may be set forth in the Scotch Education Code annually submitted to Parliament. The Code may require, as a condition of a school receiving a share of the aid grant, that the accounts of the receipts and expenditure of the school shall be annually audited in accordance with the regulations of the Department.
  For the purpose of Section nineteen of the Elementary Education Act 1876, in so far as it relates to Scotland, the aid grant paid or payable to a voluntary school shall be deemed to be income derived from a source other than the parliamentary grant.
  The expression voluntary school," means a state aided day school not provided by a school board.
  CAPTAIN SINCLAIRmoved, after "moneys provided by Parliament," to insert—
  "in such manner and amounts as the Scottish Education Department may think best for the purpose of increasing the efficiency of these schools, due regard being had to the maintenance of voluntary subscriptions."
  He said that when the Amendment was moved in Committee it was supported by 37 Scotch Members and opposed by only 11. The Bill represented a serious departure from the principle hitherto followed in the Scotch education system, and by the abandonment of the principle of the equivalent grant Scotland was not getting what was due to her. This Amendment, which was simply a direction to the Scotch Education Department in administering the grant, was taken directly from the English Bill.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid that he promised in Committee further to consider this matter, and he had conic to the conclusion that the proposed words were unnecessary. They were, truly, taken from the English Bill, but that Bill paved the way for a differentiation between school and school, and this Bill did not. In the English Bill the proviso about due
  1358
  regard to efficiency helped the differentiation between schools; they could not serve such a purpose in the present Bill, and they were unnecessary as a direction to the Department, because the Roman Catholic and Episcopalian schools which were concerned could not earn any grant at all unless they were efficient. Then the proviso about the maintenance of voluntary subscriptions was unnecessary in this Bill, because it was not proposed as in the English Bill to abolish the 17s. 6d. limit. That limit was the greatest inducement to maintain voluntary subscriptions. The Government did not wish to spoil this gift to the Voluntary Schools by harassing them in any way.
  MR. T. R. BUCHANANsaid that he was greatly disappointed' with the speech of the Lord Advocate, for last Wednesday there was a strong expression of opinion from all quarters of the House in favour of the Amendment. The Lord Advocate said that the Amendment would harass the schools. Was it harassing them to pay due regard to time maintenance of efficiency?
  *THE LORD ADVOCATE: I used that word in connection with the maintenance of voluntary subscriptions.
  MR. BUCHANANsaid that the right hon. Gentleman used the word "harass" in connection with the maintenance of efficiency.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATE: I cannot accept the hon. Member's version of what I said in that connection.
  MR. BUCHANANsaid that he was within the recollection of the House. The right hon. Gentleman used the word "harass" in the earlier part of his speech.
  MR. J. DILLONsaid that it was hard on the Voluntary Schools to press this Amendment. The Anglican question did not exist in Scotland, and the vast majority of the Voluntary Schools there were Irish Catholic schools. The children in the schools belonged to the poorest of the poor, and the Amendment would press unduly and unfairly upon them. The voluntary subscriptions, in the case of the poor Irish Catholic schools in Scotland were, to his own knowledge, collected by organisations of working men, hundreds of whom

  1359
  spent a great part of their Sunday going round from door to door taking a penny or twopence from each family. Supposing the voluntary subscriptions were to fall off, say, by half, in the schools of these poor Catholic workmen, by reason of the people stopping their pennies mid twopences, would it be a fair or generous thing to deprive them of the benefit of this grant? For that reason he opposed the insertion of these words in the English Act, and they would be still more unjust in the Scotch Act, because the overwhelming majority of the schools there were very poor, whereas in England the majority were wealthy.
  MR. RENSHAWsupported the Government, holding that the Amendment was unnecessary. He was perfectly certain, speaking from an experience of 21 years, and a member of a large School Board, that the high standard for the Voluntary Schools would be maintained in future as in the past, and as to the second part of the Amendment, it would be ungracious, and the casting an unfair slur to insert any such provision in the Bill, having regard to all that the managers and supporters of Voluntary Schools had done for the cause of education.
  DR. CLARKpointed out that the great majority of the Scottish Members voted for this Amendment in Committee—37 to 11. If the Bill was, as the Lord Advocate had said, the sequence of the English Act, why should these limiting words, which appeared in the English Act, be omitted from the Scotch one? He maintained that as regards both Board and Voluntary Schools the money Parliament voted had not been used for efficiency, but for the purpose of reducing rates in the one case and in the other making it less necessary to send the hat round.
  SIR J. FERGUSSONobserved that the poor people who supported these Voluntary Schools were rated to the Board Schools to which they did not send their children; and he failed to see the justice of throwing a further burden upon the poorest section of the community, to whom, the country was much indebted for the good education of the children.
  MR. SYDNEY GEDGEsupported the Amendment. If the principle of it was right south of the Tweed, why
  1360
  was it not right to apply it north of the Tweed? What was sauce for the goose was sauce for the gander.
  Question put, "That those words be there inserted."
  The House divided: —Ayes, 63; Noes, 154.—(Division List, No. 341.)
  Clause 3,—

  POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMISSIONERS.
  (1.) The Commissioners shall make statutes and regulations for the University of London in general accordance with the scheme of the report hereinbefore referred to, but subject to the modifications specified or indicated in Part I. of the schedule to this Act, and to any other modifications which may appear to them expedient after considering the changes which have taken place in London education of a University type since the date of the said report and any representations made to them by or on behalf of the Senate or Convocation or any fifty graduates of the University of London, or by or on behalf of any body or person affected.
  (2.) In framing such statutes and regulations, the Commissioners shall see that provision is made for securing adequately the various matters specified or indicated in Part II. of the schedule of this Act.
  (3.) The statutes or regulations, whether they are made by the Commissioners or by the Senate as hereinafter provided, shall not authorise the assignment of money for any purpose in respect of which any privilege is granted or disability imposed on account of religious belief. Provided that they shall not prevent the University from allocating funds, on such conditions as it thinks fit, for the payment of any person appointed or recognised by the University as a University teacher, or for his laboratory expenses, or for apparatus to be used by him, notwithstanding any conditions attached to any office held by him in any school of the University.
  (4.) Statutes and regulations made under this Act shall have effect notwithstanding anything in any Act of Parliament, charter, deed, or other instrument.
  MR. CALDWELLmoved an Amendment altering the phraseology and providing that no assessment or rate should be assessed or levied upon churches and chapels which were exempted from local rates.
  Amendment agreed to.
  Bill to be Read the Third time Tomorrow.

  METROPOLITAN WATER COMPANIES BILL.
  As amended, considered; Read the Third time, and passed.

  CONGESTED DISTRICTS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  Order for Third Reading read.
  Motion made and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now Read the Third time."
  CAPTAIN PIRIEproposed, to leave out the words "now Read the Third time," and add the words "re-committed in respect of Clause 4." Among the many applications which the Bill dealt with, and for which funds were placed at the disposal of the Commissioners, the Lord Advocate thought it was necessary to insert an extra provision that the money should be employed to build more lighthouses in Scotland. Though there was a most urgent demand for these he maintained that they should be provided out of the funds apart from those devoted to the congested districts. When a demand was made for lighthouses in Scotland it had first of all to be submitted to the Trinity House. But they held that the Commissioners of Northern Lights should have more liberty, and be the best judges of what was needed by the necessities of the country. The Trinity House was a. rival light authority, and it was scarcely fair that it should be the judge of Scottish lighthouse needs.
  *MR. SPEAKERruled that the hon. Member could not go into the whole question of lighthouses in Scotland on this Bill; he could only refer to the proposed grant for lighthouses in the congested districts.
  CAPTAIN PIRIE: Quite so. I bow to your ruling Mr. Speaker; but I would respectfully point out, as representing a large fishing population, and those who are very much interested in shipping as well, that it is a question affecting not only the congested districts but it is a matter of national importance from the fact that lighthouses extend all over the coast. It was entirely because of this that I mentioned my constituency. Continuing, the hon. Member said that
  1362
  to show the national interest this question assumed, he would point out the evidence given before the Committee on the Mercantile Marine Fund which proved conclusively that something like 50 lighthouses were wanted throughout the country, and its demands amounted to something like £400,000. It was preposterous to attempt to make such demands.
  *MR. SPEAKER: Order, order! I must remind the hon. Gentleman that it is not proposed to meet the demand for lighthouses generally out of this fund. The House is only dealing with the question whether any public money shall be spent in the congested districts in connection with lighthouses.
  CAPTAIN PIRIE: The words are "aiding the providing or improving of lighthouses," Sir.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATE: In the congested districts.
  CAPTAIN PIRIE: Quite so. These lighthouses were mainly called for in the congested districts, and it was that point winch he wished to bring out. Later on harbours were also included, but subject to the consent of the Treasury; and if the Lord Advocate could see his way to put lighthouses in the same category as harbours, he thought time Scotch Members, on that side of the House at any rate, would be perfectly satisfied, and he would accept that. But as it stood at present, he contended that they ought not to allow the money which should go to the relief of the congested districts to apply to more purposes than were already put into the Bill. ["Hear, hear!"] Of course the Lord Advocate might possibly say that having made out a case so strongly in favour of the increase of lighthouses, that fact proved that it was more than necessary that the congested districts fund should be applied for that purpose. But in answer to that he would say that they did not care to give the Government the excuse when a legitimate demand was made for lighthouse provision, to say,—"Oh, apply to the Congested Districts Board"; when the Board would probably say, "We have so many other calls that we are not able to comply with the demand"; and Scotland would again suffer in the way it had suffered in the past. When they considered that there were something like twenty purposes to which this money

  1363
  could be applied, and that the fund was in itself totally inadequate to meet the demands made upon it, he thought the House would say that he had made out a sufficient case to prove that lighthouses ought not to be included in the category. He begged to move.
  *MR. MUNRO FERGUSONsaid that in Committee he moved the omission of the word "lighthouses"; and although he was satisfied with the explanation of the Lord Advocate, he could not help agreeing with his hon. Friend that the number of purposes to which this money was to be applied, was larger than the fund could well meet. He did not think, however, that there was very much fear in regard to lighthouses being erected by the Congested Districts Board, and probably if the word "lights" were inserted instead of "lighthouses" it might meet the scruples of some hon. Members. In the case of Stroma, for instance, they would not speak of a lighthouse, and the word "light" would apply.
  SIR W. WEDDERBURNsupported the Amendment. He represented a large population of fishermen, who in the pursuit of their industry had to visit distant shores and strange waters and it was necessary that more lights should be provided for them. To put down a sum such as the congested district Fund could afford for such a purpose as that was absolutely insufficient, and he was bound to protest.
  Amendment negatived.
  DR. CLARKhoped the Bill would prove a successful one. The Government had acted in a fairly generous way in reference to the matter with which the Bill dealt, and although a portion of the money really came from their own funds, Scotland was getting for the first time something like £20,000 from the British Treasury for this experiment. The only thing he was sorry about in the Bill was that after the experience of the Irish Act, they had not given compulsory powers. With regard to the composition of the Board of Commissioners, he thought that there should be special representatives of both the landlords and the crofters; fortunately the Chairman of the Fishery Board was the son of a crofter and he had represented the crofters for many
  1364
  years in that House, so that he would represent them well on the Board. But that was a mere accident for the time being. He hoped that when the Bill was tried in operation it would solve one of the most pressing and difficult problems of the Highlands. It certainly bid fair to do so. Of course it did not solve all the Highland problems. There were others outside the congested districts which the Government must not attempt to solve; but the Scotch Members would not forget to press them upon their attention. He hoped, however, that within its scope the Bill would be a success. ["Hear, hear"!]
  Bill read the Third time, and passed.

  BURIAL GROUND (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  Order read, for resuming adjourned Debate on Question [11th May], "That the Bill be now read a Second time."
  Question again proposed. Debate resumed.
  MR. CALDWELLcomplained that the right hon. Member for Montrose was not in his place when a Bill in which his constituency was so specially interested came on for consideration. He was confident that if the Lord Advocate did not take the Bill under his wing and left his Party discretion to vote as they pleased, the Bill would be rejected. It proposed to extend the borrowing powers of the local authorities from 20 to 30 years, and in all Scotland, Montrose was the only place that asked for this extension, for which he contended there was no necessity.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEsaid that in introducing this Bill the Scotch Office had no doubt acceded to a request made by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Montrose Burghs. The hon. Member opposite would not wish him not to extend to others the same consideration which he hoped he had always extended to the hon. Member himself. In England, the period for the repayment of these loans was 30 years, and it was thought

  1365
  desirable that there should be uniformity in this matter between the two countries.
  DR. CLARKdid not see why the system existing in Scotland should be changed, and thought that it would be a bad thing to extend the period of repayment, having regard to the rates of interest at present prevailing.
  Question put, and agreed to.
  Bill read a Second time, and committed for To-morrow.

  STIPENDIARY MAGISTRATES JURISDICTION (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  Motion made that this Bill be read a Second time.
  MR. CALDWELLsaid that the object of the Bill was to confer upon stipendiary Magistrates in Scotland the same summary jurisdiction as was now exercised by the Sheriffs. He thought that in places like Glasgow this system of concurrent jurisdiction would lead to inconvenience, and he doubted whether adequate machinery was provided in the Measure for effecting the purpose in view. The Bill would have to be carefully considered in Committee. At present the Sheriff alone dealt with summary procedure cases. If the same jurisdiction were given to Police magistrates it might be found that they took one view of a question while the Sheriffs took another view. Another result of the proposed change would be that one book of causes would no longer suffice. There would have to be two, one in the Sheriff's Court and one in the Police Court, and both would have to be consulted. Then he wished to know who would be entitled to appear before the Stipendiary. Under the Summary Procedure (Scotland) Act only the parties or their procurators could appear before the Sheriff in Summary Procedure cases. Was the right of appearance to be regulated in the same way in the Stipendiary's Court? The
  1366
  Bill made no provision for establishing a scale of fees in the Police Court, and one effect of the Bill would be to deprive the Exchequer of the sums paid as fines. These, as he read the Bill, would go to the Police Fund in cases which were brought before the Stipendiaries. That was not advisable. Then the Bill would impose upon localities what was really an Imperial burden, for the Sheriff was paid out of the Exchequer, while the Police Magistrate was paid out of local funds. Police officers, he supposed, were to have all the powers of Sheriffs' officers in carrying out the Summary Procedure Act. That was a. novelty, and duties were thereby being imposed on police officers which, in ordinary circumstances, they were not qualified to perform.
  *THE LORD ADVOCATEthought the hon. Member entertained rather exaggerated fears about the difficulties attending cumulative jurisdiction. There was at the present moment cumulative jurisdiction in matters criminal between the Sheriff's Court and the Police Court. Under tins Bill the same rights of appearance would obtain as were now exercised before the Sheriff. Appearance, he took it, would be limited to the parties and their procurators. He could reassure the hon. Gentleman on one point, and that was that an amendment would be introduced providing that the fees should go in exactly the same way after the Bill was passed as they did before. The present Bill has been really asked for by the City of Glasgow. It seemed to him a reasonable demand, and accordingly he hoped the House would give it a Second Reading.
  Bill read a Second time, and committed for To-morrow.

  LAND TRANSFER (RE-COMMITTED) BILL.
  Committee deferred till Friday.

  NAVY AND ARMY EXPENDITURE, 1895–6.
  Considered in Committee.
  (In the Committee.)
  1. Resolved, That it appears by the Navy Appropriation Account for the year ended the 31st day of March 1896, and the statement appended thereto, as follows, viz.:—

  (a.) That the gross expenditure for certain Navy Services exceeded the estimate of such expenditure by a total sum of £59,302 15s. 9d., as shown in Column No. 1 of the Schedule hereto appended; while the gross expenditure for other Navy Services fell short of the estimate of such expenditure by a total sum of £216,845 6s. 11d., as shown in Column No. 2 of the said appended Schedule, so that the gross actual expenditure for the whole of the Navy Services fell short of the gross estimated expenditure by the net sum of £157,542 11s. 2d.;

  (b.) That the receipts in aid of certain Navy Services fell short of the estimate of such receipts by a total sum of £28,570 10s.11d., as shown in Column No. 3 of the said appended Schedule; while the receipts in aid of other Navy Services exceeded the

  SCHEDULE.

  Number of Vote.

  Navy Services, 1895–6. Votes.

  Gross Expenditure.

  Appropriations in Aid.

  Excesses of Actual over Estimated Gross Expenditure.

  Surpluses of Estimated over Actual Gross Expenditure.

  Deficiencies of Actual as compared with Estimated Receipts.

  Surpluses of Actual as compared with Estimated Receipts.

  1.

  2.

  3.

  4.

  £

  s.

  d.

  £

  s.

  d.

  £

  s.

  d.

  £

  s.

  d.

  1

  …

  Wages, etc., of Officers, Seamen and Boys, Coast Guard and Royal Marines

  …

  …

  …

  …

  73,060

  13

  8

  …

  1,420

  16

  4

  2

  …

  Victualling and Clothing for the Navy

  …

  …

  …

  489

  6

  2

  …

  28,514

  7

  9

  3

  …

  Medical Establishments and Services

  …

  9,975

  11

  9

  …

  657

  6

  6

  4

  …

  Martial Law

  …

  …

  …

  85

  2

  6

  …

  …

  31

  3

  9

  5

  …

  Educational Services

  …

  …

  …

  …

  875

  13

  6

  …

  684

  9

  6

  6

  …

  Scientific Services

  …

  …

  …

  1,231

  12

  11

  …

  …

  45

  3

  8

  7

  …

  Royal Navy Reserves

  …

  …

  …

  …

  11,665

  9

  1

  …

  153

  11

  5

  8

  …

  Shipbuilding, Repairs, Maintenance, etc.:

  Sec. 1

  …

  Personnel

  …

  …

  …

  …

  1,893

  15

  5

  …

  145

  16

  7

  Sec. 2

  …

  Materiel

  …

  …

  …

  …

  4,111

  8

  9

  …

  20,243

  6

  6

  Sec. 3

  …

  Contract Work

  ….

  …

  …

  2,347

  8

  11

  …

  …

  18

  11

  0

  9

  …

  Naval Armaments

  …

  …

  …

  24,869

  14

  0

  …

  …

  8,154

  5

  0

  10

  …

  Works, Buildings and Repairs at Home and Abroad

  …

  …

  …

  …

  99,097

  11

  7

  …

  2,301

  4

  1

  11

  …

  Miscellaneous Effective Services

  …

  12,848

  14

  2

  …

  …

  689

  8

  0

  12

  …

  Admiralty Office

  …

  …

  …

  …

  4,032

  14

  9

  …

  1

  3

  2

  13

  …

  Half-Pay, Reserved and Retired Pay

  …

  12,132

  8

  5

  46

  6

  6

  14

  …

  Naval and Marine Pensions, Gratuities, and Compassionate Allowances

  …

  …

  …

  8,885

  10

  3

  …

  …

  66

  11

  11

  15

  …

  Civil Pensions and Gratuities

  …

  6,829

  1

  9

  …

  9

  16

  8

  16

  …

  Additional Naval Force for Service in Australasian Waters

  …

  …

  42

  16

  0

  …

  …

  177

  0

  0

  Amount written off as irrecoverable

  1,673

  9

  1

  59,302

  15

  9

  216,845

  6

  11

  28,570

  10

  11

  34,789

  17

  5

  Net Surplus,

  £157,512

  11

  2

  Net Surplus,

  £6,219

  6

  Surplus surrendered to the Exchequer …

  £163,761

  17

  8

  estimate of such receipts by a total sum of £34,789 17s. 5d., as shown in Column No. 4 of the said appended Schedule; so that the total actual receipts in aid of the Grants for Navy Services exceeded the total estimated receipts by the net sum of £6,219 6s. 6d.;
  (c.) That the resulting differences between the Exchequer Grants for Navy Services and the net expenditure are as follows,

  viz.:—

  £.

  s.

  d.

  Total Surpluses

  242,540

  18

  6

  Total Deficits

  78,779

  0

  10

  Net Surplus

  £163,761

  17

  8

  2. That the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury have temporarily authorised the application, in reduction of the net charge on Exchequer Grants for certain Navy Services, of the whole of the sums received in excess of the estimated Appropriations in Aid, in respect of the same Services; and have also temporarily authorised the application of so much of the said total surpluses on certain Grants for Navy Services as is necessary to cover the said total deficits on other Grants for Navy Services.
  3. That the application of such sums be sanctioned.
  4. That it appears by the Army Appropriation Account for the year ended the 31st day of March 1896, and the statement appended thereto, as follows, viz.:—

  (a.) That the gross expenditure for certain Army Services exceeded the estimate of such expenditure by a total sum of £76,290 Gs. 5d., as shown in Column No. 1 of the Schedule hereto appended while the gross expenditure for other Army Services fell short of the Estimate of such expenditure by a total suns of £242,675 10s. 6d., as shown in Column No. 2 of the said. appended Schedule, so that the gross actual expenditure for the whole of the Army Services fell short of the gross estimated expenditure by the net sum of £166,385 4s. id.;

  (b.) That the receipts in aid of certain Army Services fell short of the estimate of such receipts by a total sum of £51,338 16s. 3d., as shown in Column No. 3 of the said appended Schedule; while the receipts in aid of other Army Services exceeded the estimate of such receipts by a total sum of £69,518 17s. 3d., as shown in Column No. 4 of the said appended Schedule, so that the total

  SCHEDULE.

  No. of Vote.

  Army Services, 1895–6. Votes.

  Gross Expenditure.

  Appropriations in Aid.

  Excesses of Actual over Estimated Gross Expenditure.

  Surpluses of Estimated over Actual Gross Expenditure.

  Deficiencies of Actual as compared with Estimated Receipts.

  Surpluses of Actual as compared with Estimated Receipts.

  1.

  2.

  3.

  4.

  £

  s.

  d.

  £

  s.

  d.

  £

  s.

  d.

  £

  s.

  d.

  1

  Pay, etc., of Army (General Staff, Regiments, Reserve, and Department

  …

  …

  …

  …

  …

  38,853

  2

  1

  47,922

  14

  10

  2

  Medical Establishments: Pay, etc.

  …

  1,599

  16

  4

  …

  47

  8

  1

  3

  Militia: Pay and Allowances

  …

  …

  26,921

  0

  11

  …

  860

  13

  5

  4

  Yeomanry Cavalry: Pay and Allowances

  …

  …

  …

  …

  4,987

  16

  3

  …

  9

  13

  6

  …

  5

  Volunteer Corps: Pay and Allow

  …

  …

  …

  …

  7,997

  7

  7

  …

  …

  95

  11

  4

  6

  Transport and Remounts

  …

  …

  2,282

  5

  9

  …

  381

  10

  7

  …

  7

  Provisions, Forage, and other Supplies

  …

  …

  …

  …

  …

  89,591

  0

  8

  …

  1,658

  16

  6

  8

  Clothing Establishments, and Services

  …

  …

  …

  …

  43,685

  11

  1

  …

  …

  14,475

  11

  9

  9

  Warlike and other Stores: Supply and Repair

  …

  …

  …

  …

  …

  40,020

  8

  7

  …

  43,029

  8

  5

  10

  Works, Buildings, and Repairs: Cost, including Superintending Establishment

  …

  …

  …

  …

  39,899

  16

  11

  2,942

  10

  6

  …

  11

  Military Educational Establishments: Pay and Miscellaneous Charges

  …

  …

  …

  …

  1,892

  12

  5

  …

  …

  8,631

  7

  9

  12

  Miscellaneous Effective Services

  …

  …

  2,079

  0

  2

  …

  51

  3

  4

  13

  War Office: Salaries and Miscellaneous Charges

  …

  …

  …

  …

  921

  5

  0

  …

  72

  16

  8

  14

  Non-effective Charges for Officers, etc.

  …

  …

  …

  …

  13,560

  8

  3

  …

  …

  596

  0

  0

  15

  Non-effective Charges for Men, etc.

  …

  2,789

  19

  10

  65

  9

  5

  16

  Superannuation, Compensation, and Compassionate Allowances

  1.522

  9

  9

  …

  16

  17

  7

  …

  Balances irrecoverable

  …

  …

  361

  14

  6

  76,290

  6

  5

  242,675

  10

  6

  51,338

  16

  5

  69,518

  17

  3

  Net Surplus,

  £166,385

  4

  1

  Net Surplus,

  £18,180

  0

  10

  Surplus surrendered to the Exchequer …

  £184,565

  4

  11

  Resolutions to he reported To-morrow.
  actual receipts in Aid of the Grants for Army Services exceeded the total estimated receipts by the net sum of £18,180 Os. 10d.;
  (c.) That the resulting differences between the Exchequer Grants for Army Services and the net expenditure are as follows, viz.:—

  £

  s.

  d.

  Total Surpluses

  253,273

  10

  3

  Total Deficits

  68,708

  5

  4

  Net Surplus

  £184,565

  4

  11

  5 That the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury have temporarily authorised the application, in reductions of the net charge on Exchequer Grants for certain Army Services, of the whole of the sums received in excess of the estimated appropriations in aid, in respect of the same Services, and have also temporarily authorised the application of so much of the said total surpluses oil certain grants for Army Services as is necessary to cover the said total deficits on other Grants for Army Services.
  6. That the application of such sums be sanctioned.

  FOREIGN PRISON-MADE GOODS BILL.
  Third reading deferred till Friday.

  POST OFFICE TELEGRAPHS (FACILITIES AND PENSIONS) BILL.
  Considered in Committee.
  Clause 2,—

  APPLICATION OF 58 AND 59 VICT., C. 18 TO SCOTLAND.
  In the application of the Post Office Amendment Act 1895, to Scotland, the following provisions shall have effect:—

  (a.) A reference to the Post Office Act 1891, as amended by the Post Office Act 1892, shall be substituted for the reference to the Post Office Act 1891; and

  (b.) Any expenses incurred under the Act by a parish council in Scotland shall be defrayed as expenses incurred for the purposes of Part IV. of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1894.

  MR. CALDWELLsaid the object of the Clause was to give power to parish councils to give guarantee for local telegraphs. In Scotland district councils had already that power, and it was also provided by the Corporated Districts Bill that in the case of Corporated Districts the Commissioners under the Bill might give guarantees. If this Bill passed it would simply come to this, that, so many bodies having the power to give guarantees, none of them would exercise it, and if the Post Office did not get guarantees they would do nothing. He was therefore against any further extension of this power to other local bodies.
  MR. CLARKthought the provision a very wise one. In many cases a parish getting full benefit itself, would be willing to give the guarantee.
  *MR. WEIRsaid he knew of several. cases in which parish councils would be glad to give the guarantee, though he contended that telegraphic communications should be established all over the Highlands without guarantees; throughout the Highland Counties they only got one telegraph office a year without guarantee.
  MR. T. M. HEALY: Is there any objection to the extension of the principle to us?
  THE SECRETARY TO TAE TREASURY (Mr. R. W. HANBURY, Preston): I can see no reason why it should not apply to all three countries. ["Hear, hear!"]
  Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill; remaining clauses agreed to; Bill reported, without Amendment; read the Third time, and passed.

  WICKLOW HARBOUR (ADVANCES) BILL.
  Considered in Committee.
  Clause 1,—

  WICKLOW HARBOUR (ADVANCES) BILL.

    MODE OF RAISING SUMS PAYABLE BY TOWN OF WICKLOW AND CONTRIBUTING BARONIES.
    (1.) The Board of Works shall, twice in each year after the date of consolidation, certify the mount due from the town of Wicklow in respect of the proportion of the consolidated debt charged on the rates of the town, and transmit that certificate to the Town Commissioners.
    (2.) The sums specified in the certificates shall be raised by the Town Commissioners by means of a special rate levied in addition to any rate which they are empowered to make under En Towns Improvement (Ireland) Act 1854; mud all the provisions of that Act which relate o the making and enforcing of rates, and to the partial exemption of certain classes of property, shall apply to the special rate so authorised.
    (3.) The Board of Works shall, before each assize after the date of consolidation, make out t certificate of the amount due from each contributing barony in respect of the proportion of he consolidated debt charged on the grand jury cess of the barony, and lay the certificate before he grand jury, and the grand jury shall, without my previous application to presentment sessions, make a presentment for the amount specified in he certificate, and, in default of such a present-colt, the amount shall be raised on an order of he Judge of assize, the order having the forced a presentment.
    (4.) A certificate of the Board of Works under this section, shall be conclusive as to the matter certified.
    (5.) The money raised under this section hall be paid to the Board of Works in such manner as the Treasury direct.
    MR. HANBURYmoved in Sub-section (2) to leave out the words "Towns Improvement" in order to insert the cords "Public Health." He said the reason was that there was a misdescription in the original Bill of the rating authority of the County of Wicklow.
    Amendment agreed to.
    Mr. HANBURYmoved in sub-section (2) to leave out "1854" and to insert "1878."
    Amendment agreed to; Clause ordered o stand part of the Bill; remaining Clauses agreed to; Bill, as amended, to le considered To-morrow.

    ISLE OF MAN (CHURCH BUILDING ACTS) BILL. [H.L.]
    Order read for resuming Adjourned Debate on Question (5th July), "That the Bill be now read a Second time."
    Question put, and agreed to; Bill read a Second time, and Committed for Friday.

    LUNACY BILL [H.L.]
    Order for Second Reading read.
    THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR,)moved that the Bill be taken on Friday.
    SIR HENRY FOWLERsail this Bill dealt with a very complicated question, and the House of Lords had only just sent it down to them. If they had received it earlier they might have dealt with it. He had objections to raise to some of the clauses, and, therefore, he put it that in accordance with the pledge given not to proceed with contentious business he hoped that this Bill would not be taken.
    THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYsaid the statement just made rendered it impossible to proceed with the Bill this Session. He had no alternative but, with regret, to withdraw the Bill. He moved that the Order be discharged.
    Order for Second Reading discharged; Bill withdrawn.

    MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS (SCOTLAND) BILL [H.L.]
    On the Motion for the Second Reading of this Bill,
    MR. T. M. HEALYsaid he did riot mean to oppose this Bill, but to call attention to the fact that they had Scotch Bills called again and again. They were giving the whole of the day to them, and they might as well be in a Scotch Parliament. They did not reject Scotch Bills as they rejected Irish Bills.
    MR. WALLACEsaid the Scotch Members got Bills they (lid not want, and they were refused Bills that they did want, so that he sympathised with the hon. Member in making a complaint on behalf of his native land.
    Read a Second time, and Committed for To-morrow.

    SUPPLY.
    Committee deferred till To-morrow.
    POST OFFICE (SITES) (RE-COMMITTED) BILL.
    Considered in Committee, and reported, without Amendment; Read the Third time, and passed.

    PUBLIC WORKS LOANS [ADVANCES AND 11E1\116 810N OF DEBT].
    Considered in Committee.
    Resolved, That it is expedient to authorise,—

    (a) the payment out of the Consolidated Fund, of advances which may be required to meet any insufficiency of the Local Loans Fund to pay the principal and interests of bonds, which may be issued in lieu of Local Loans Stock, and the repayment, out of moneys to be provided by Parliament, of such advances;

    (b) the remission of certain debts due from the Aberbrothwick Harbour Trustees to the Public Works Loan Commissioners, of the Clara and Banagher Railway Company, the Ballycastle Railway Company, and the Giant's Causeway, Portrush, and Bush Valley Railway and Tramway Company to the Commissioners of Public Works in Ireland, in pursuance of any Act of the present Session to grant money for Local Loans and for other purposes relating to Local Loans.

    Resoluntion to be reported To-morrow.

    EXPIRING LAWS CONTINUANCE BILL.
    Read a Second time, and Committed for Friday.
    BURIALS JOINT COMMITTEES BILL.
    Second Reading deferred till Friday.

    PUBLIC WORKS LOANS BILL.
    Considered in Committee.
    MR. T. LOUGHthought that the money might be got at a cheaper rate by the local authorities, and he suggested 2½ instead of 2¾. He begged to move to leave out ¾ in order to insert ½.
    *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Sir MICHAEL HICKS BEACH,)reminded the hon. Member that the minimum could be altered in some subsequent year, if the rate of interest should fall still further; but he found it quite impossible to go below 2¾ under the present circumstances. He must ask the Committee to stand by him.
    MR. J. DILLONasked whether a local body would be enabled to make an alternative offer of paying the whole of the loan or repaying by these annual instalments.
    *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERsaid he would make arrangements for loans to county governing bodies in Ireland for short terms, pending the consideration of the reform of Irish county government. He admitted that they had in Ireland special grounds for asking for consideration in the matter of short loans.
    MR. T. M. HEALYsaid that the Treasury ought not to go into competition with the banks and aim at making money over those loans. The view of the Treasury ought to be that public bodies were members of the same family as themselves, and therefore money ought to be advanced to them cheaply, no charge being made beyond the actual cost of the clerical work.
    MR. LOUGHsaid the admission of the Chancellor of the Exchequer met the object he had in view in moving the Amendment. He therefore asked for leave to withdraw it.
    Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
    MR. T. M. HEALY (on behalf of Mr. VESEY KNOX,)moved the following addition at the end of the Clause 1:—
    (2) Pending the establishment of county councils in Ireland loans may be made out of the Local Loans Fund on the security of the rates of a county or counties in Ireland, repayable at the end of such period, not exceeding two years as may be fixed by the Treasury in each case, and the interest on such loans shall be at the rate of two and three quarters per centum perannum and no provision need be made for sinking fund.
    *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERasked the right hon. Gentleman not to press the Amendment, in view
    1376
    of the Irish Local Government legislation which would be proposed next Session.
    Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
    Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
    Clauses 2, 7, and 8, postponed.
    Clauses 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, and 10 ordered to stand part of Bill.
    *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERmoved the following new clause:—
    APPLICATION OF ACT TO LOANS UNDER 55 AND 56 c. 43; 60 AND 61 VIC. c. 6; AND 57 AND 58 VIC. c. 60.
    The provisions of this Act with respect to loans on the security of a local rate shall extend—

    (a) to loans under the Military Lands Acts 1892 and 1897, on the security of land, and of a grant out of money provided by Parliament; and

    (b) to loans under section six hundred and sixty-three of the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894, on the security of the Mercantile Marine Fund, or of the several dues, rates, fees, and payments to be carried to that fund, or of any part thereof.

    Clause brought up and read a First time.
    Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause be read a Second time."
    MR. DILLONsaid the new clause was not on the Paper, and it was a most unusual proceeding to move a new clause, extending the scope of a Bill without notice. The money was to be lent for acquiring ground for Volunteers. But whom was it to be lent to and on what security?
    THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERsaid he did not care about pressing the clause now. He might, however, inform the hon. Gentleman that the security was practically a Parliamentary security because all those Volunteer corps got Parliamentary grants.
    MR. DILLONsaid he objected to the clause. Volunteers were not allowed rifle ranges in Ireland, and it was too much to ask Ireland to contribute towards supplying rifle ranges to Volunteers in England.
    Committee report Progress; to sit again To-morrow.

    SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE (IRELAND) BILL.
    Considered in Committee.
    Clause 1,—

    AMALGAMATION OF EXCHEQUER DIVISION WITH QUEEN'S BENCH DIVISION.
    (1.) The Exchequer Division shall be fused and amalgamated with the Queen's Bench Division of the High Court, and the Lord Chief llama of the Exchequer shall take rank in the Queen's Bench Division next after the Lord Chief Justice, and in all other respects shall have and enjoy the same title, rank, precedence, patronage, rights, salary and emoluments as He had and enjoyed immediately before the passing of this Act; and shall have the same rights in relation to appointments to the offices held by the existing officers of the Exchequer Division (save the office of Master) and in relation to any office which may be created in substitution for any such existing office, its if such new office were in the Exchequer Division.
    (2.) Any order which may be made, during the continuance in office of the Lord Chief Baron, for consolidating, or reducing the member of the existing offices in the Queen's Bench and Exchequer Divisions, shall state which of the new or continuing offices shall, for the purposes of this section, be deemed to have been created in substitution for an existing office in the Exchequer Division.
    (3.) All causes and matters pending in the Exchequer Division, and all causes and 'natters which would have been assigned to that Division, if this Act had not Passed, shall be assigned to the Queen's Bench Division.
    Question proposed, "That Clause 1 stand part of the Bill."
    MR. DILLONmoved "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again." He had been given to understand that the Bill would not be taken that night.
    THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYsaid that if there had been any understanding in regard to the Bill, it would of course be adhered to. But in asking for tile postponement of the Bill the hon. Gentleman, if he were in favour of the reform it embodied, took upon himself a serious responsibility, for it would be impossible for the Government in the present state of public business and at the present stage of the Session to give much time to the Bill. The Bill embodied a reform which had met with great favour in Ireland; It proposed to allocate the money saved by the abolition id the Judgeships to purely Irish purposes; but as one of the Judges must be appointed in the autumn, unless the Bill were passed, there was a danger that the
    1378
    proposed reform would fall through if the, Bill were now postponed.
    MR DILLONsaid the fate of the I fill was in the hands of the Government, and if there should be any risk in the reform—the infinitesimal reform—which the Bill embodied being lost by the postponement of the Bill, the responsibility will entirely fall on the shoulders of the Chief Secretary in introducing a Bill of this character, which required some discussion, at the fag end of the session. He should protest against the system which had been adopted by the Government in dealing with Irish Bills— that was to carry on negotiations with persons outside the House, come to certain arrangements, and then come down to the House and say— "Here is the Bill; take it or leave it; we shall not allow you any time to discuss it."
    MR. T. M. HEALYsaid as he himself had the pleasure of being a barrister, he should not have had the courage to take the course pursued by the hon. Member for Mayo, but he felt that the thanks of the Irish Bar were due to the hon. Member. There were some 300 Conservative Members of the Irish Bar, who all expected Judgeships, and this Bill proposed to abolish three of the Judgeships which these gentlemen of the Trish Bar regarded as their perquisites. When the news of the opposition of the hon. Member for Mayo to the abolition of these Judgeships reached Dublin, he was sure there would be great rejoicing, and if they did not propose to put up a bust of the hon. Gentleman in the hall of the Four Courts, at least no reasonable expressions of gratitude would be spared [Laughter.] He regarded this Bill as a valuable reform, but personally he was indifferent as to whether these reforms were carried or not.
    MR. J. C. FLYNNprotested against the habit of the Government in bringing Irish Bills on after Twelve o'clock, or after half-past Five o'clock on Wednesdays. He thought that a reasonable time should be allotted for these Measures.
    MR. EDWARD CARSONsaid as the hon. Member for East Mayo had conferred such obligations on the Trish Bar, he would ask whether the Government had ally right to abolish these Judgeships without an Act of Parliament, and further, if they

    1379
    did not get an Act of Parliament, whether they had any right to stop filling up Judgeships. He suggested that there would be an obligation to fill up all the existing vacancies on the Irish Bench.
    MR. DILLONsaid he was deeply gratified at being complimented by the Irish Bar, but he was unable to understand the position in which he found himself. The right hon. Member for Dublin University had come down night after night to support this Bill, but he supposed the right hon. Member had severed his connection with the Irish Bar and no longer took a warm interest in it. The right hon. Member had said that he was conferring a favour on the Bar, and that they might put up a bust to him in the hall of the Four Courts.
    MR. CARSON: I did not say so, nor do I think the Bar would ever do anything of the kind. [Loud laughter.]
    MR. DILLONsaid he believed it was in the power of the Government to fill up the vacant Judgeships. In point of fact the Bill would not effect any economy.
    THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (Mr. GERALD BALFOUR,)said it was not correct to assert that this Bill was not urgent. It would be absolutely necessary for the Government to appoint another Judge in the autumn if this Bill did not pass. If that was done the whole scheme of the Bill would fall through, and if this opportunity of dealing with the question were not taken, in all probability they would not be able to deal with it in the future.
    MR. T. M. HEALYsaid a considerable saving had been effected by the non-filling up of these positions on the Irish Bench and unless this Bill passed those savings would go to fill up the interstices in the pocket of the British Treasury. He thought they were entitled to a pledge that if the positions were not filled up the amount saved should be devoted to seine Irish purpose. That pledge had been given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer earlier in the Session.
    THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYsaid he could not imagine that his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer would have consented to a Bill to give the produce of a vacant Judgeship to an Irish purpose without associating that Bill with one for reforming the Irish Judicature. It would indeed be absolutely impossible to do so.
    1380
    He was afraid the hon. Member for Mayo must choose between the disagreeable necessity of reforming the Irish Judicature and the equally disagreeable necessity of depriving Ids countrymen of some £10,000 a year.
    MR. DALYurged that this stage of the Bill should be postponed until Friday.
    Committee report Progress; to sit again upon Friday.

    METROPOLITAN POLICE, (BORROWING POWERS) BILL.
    Considered in Committee.
    Clause 1,—

    EXTENSION OF BORROWING POWERS OF RECEIVER.
    For the purposes referred to in Section three of the Metropolitan Police Act 1886, as amended by Section two of the Metropolitan Police Act 1887, the Receiver for the Metropolitan Police District may, under and in accordance with those sections, borrow further sums not exceeding in the aggregate two hundred and fifty thousand pounds.
    Question proposed, "That the clause stand part of the Bill."
    MR. T. M. HEALYasked why the Metropolitan Police should obtain any special borrowing powers? He did not know that the Metropolitan Police were gasping for this Bill, or see any reason why the Committee, late on a Wednesday afternoon, should spend its time over it. He moved to report progress.
    THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYhoped the hon. and learned Member would not press his Motion. He would not go into the general question of Irish legislation or the way it was treated by the Government, but he would remind the hon. Member that a good deal of next Session had already been mortgaged for Irish affairs. This Bill was a small, very necessary Bill on which no controversy arose, and he hoped the hon. Member would not oppose it simply because some other Bill in which he was interested had not been proceeded with.
    Motion negatived.
    MR. LOUGHsaid that under Clause 1 the Receiver of the Metropolitan Police would have power to borrow £750,000. Why was it necessary he should have that power?
    THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. JESSE COLLINGS),)explained that a large sum was necessary for structural alterations and improvements at various of the London police stations and police courts, in connection with the building of New Scotland-yard, and other purposes.
    MR. LOUGHasked that a Return should be laid before Parliament of the sums borrowed from time to time under the Bill.
    MR. ASQUITHurged that a Return should be laid before Parliament of the sums borrowed, and showing how they had been allocated. It was very necessary that the work contemplated in connection with the Bill should be carried out.
    MR. JESSE COLLINGSsaid the Return desired should be presented.
    Bill reported without amendment; read the Third Time, and passed.

  DANGEROUS PERFORMANCES BILL
  Committee deferred till Friday.

  INFANT LIFE PROTECTION BILL.
  As amended (by the Standing Committee) considered.
  MR. J. SAMUELsaid that several Members representing non-county boroughs, who were interested in this Bill had paired for the rest of the Session and gone away on the understanding that the Bill which was a private Member's Bill would not be procceded with. The Government had now suddenly decided to take it up, and private. Members had a right to an explanation for their action.
  MR. T. M. HEALYpointed out to Mr. Speaker that the Bill was not Starred on the Order Paper as a Government Bill in accordance with the Rules.
  *MR. SPEAKER: No doubt it is usual to put a star against Government Bills. But as the Government have put this Bill down it becomes Government business. The First Lord of the Treasury stated that the Government intended to put this Bill down. The Government have done so, and I cannot say it is not Government business.
  MR. T. M. MEALYsaid the Government should let the House know what
  1382
  was Government business and what was not. If there was any further attempt to take Government business which was not starred he should object.
  *MR. SPEAKER: The hon. and learned Member could not take objection in point of form. The practice has invariably been to star Government Bills, but business put down by the Government becomes Government business.
  MR, T. M. HEALY: Quite true, Sir, but that would depend on the construction of the particular Order the House might be on.
  *MR. SPEAKER: It was ordered the other day that the Standing Order as to the sittings of the House should not affect Government business The Government have put down this Bill and, therefore, it becomes Government business, within the meaning of the recent Order.
  MR. J. SAMUELthought the House ought to know on what ground the Government had taken up this Bill.
  *MR. SPEAKER: Order, order! The only question before the House is that the Bill as amended be now considered.
  MR. J. SAMUELsaid that if he was in order he would move the adjournment of the Debate, that a matter so important to a huge number of private Members might be discussed.
  MR. SPEAKER: The question is that this Bill be now considered. The hon. Member cannot enter into the policy of the Government in taking up private Member Bills.
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYsaid that, after Mr. Speaker's ruling, it was only by leave of the House that he could Say anything on the general question. The hon. Member could not have been in the House yesterday or he must have had a very imperfect report of what he had said, because he pointed out that at the time he asked for special privileges for Government business, he stated that there were a certain number of private Bills which he believed to be really unopposed, that he would do his best to consult, with hon. Members in various park of the House as to these Bills, and he would put them down, not as Government Bills, but as Government, business, in order that the Motion taking the Whole time of the House for Government business should not act oppressively towards hon. Members

  1383
  who had really unopposed business. The hon. Gentleman, he knew, felt strongly about the Highways Bill, but that was a Bill to which he made special reference in his statement; the previous night, pointing out that it stood in a different position to almost all the other Bills which ad made progress after Twelve o'clock at night, that fact affording a good indication that they were really unopposed. He expressly told the House that one of the Bills he proposed to put down as Government business—namely, the Highways Bill—still stood for second reacting, and that he was in it sure whether it was an unopposed measure or not. He had endeavoured to the best of his ability to find out exactly how the matter stood, and he learned that the hon. Gentleman had a strong objection to the measure founded on the interest of the non-county boroughs, winch he thought were prejudiced by it. He should wish to consult the hon. Al ember with regard to the Bill, and he should not press to take it that day. ["Hear, hear!"] He might, add that there was no intention, under the guise of Government business, of forcing down the throats of a reluctant minority Bills of this character, and he hoped, therefore, the hon. Gentleman would withdraw his motion.
  MR. J. SAMUEL,by leave, withdrew his Motion for the adjournment of Debate.
  Amendments made: Leave out "justice," and insert "stipendiary magistrate or to any two justices;" after "satisfied," insert "on information in writing made before him or them on oath."—(Mr. Pickersgill.)
  Schedule, page 6, line 12, leave out "the poor rate," and insert "rate or fund applicable to the general expenses of the guardians."—(Mr. Jesse Collings.)
  Bill read the Third time, and passed with Amendments.

  ARCHDEACONRY OF LONDON (ADDITIONAL ENDOWMENTS) BILL.
  Considered in Committee.
  [The CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS, Mr. J. W. LOWTHER, in the Chair.]
  Clause 1,—

  SHORT TITLE.
  This Act may be cited as the Archdeaconry of London (Additional Endowment) Act 1897.
  Question proposed, "That Clause 1, stand part of the
  Bill."
  MR. T. M. HEALYmoved "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again." They were told that these English and Scotch Bills were practically non-contentious, but he never heard yet of any non-contentious Bill with regard to Ireland. If a non-contentious Bill for Ireland did pass through that House, it was killed elsewhere. ["Hear, hear!"] The Government had no right to pick and choose what legislation they should pass. He was sure that a number of the proposals in this and other Bills were excellent, but that House was simply a receiving office for English and Scotch business. The -Irish might knock at the door, but they practically got nothing whatever. They had had Irish non-contentious Bills in that house, but they had never been able to get them through the House of Lords, and it was high tune the Government gave them facilities for obtaining Irish legislation so that when a Measure had unanimously passed the Commons they should not find the Prime Minister getting up in the House of Lords and objecting to its passing there. This was a question of reprisal, and it was time that the Irish members showed the Government that they would not allow their Bills to be kicked out, of that and another place without taking some satisfaction. ["Hear, hear!"]
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYhoped the hon. Gentleman would not persevere with the Motion, which he had admitted was not based upon the particular merits of the question, but on the general view of what he called a reprisal. When the hon. Gentleman complained of the lack of Irish legislation he would remind him that there had been passed that very afternoon a Bill which was entirely for the benefit of one district in Ireland—namely, the Wicklow Harbour (Advances) Bill. That was a measure which might have been stopped had any English or Scotch Member objected to it being taken after Twelve o'clock at night in its previous stages, but he was glad to say that no such step was taken. ["Hear, hear!"] Speaking for the Government, and also, he believed, for the House at large, he could say there was not the slightest desire to mete out to Irish legislation any different measure to that which was accorded English legislation. ["Hear, hear!"] The three or four Bills which had been put down

  1385
  as Government business were non-contentious in the sense that the vast majority of the House were in favour of them as against a very small minority and until the hon. Gentleman could point to an Irish Bill answering that description which hail been nut with obstruction by English or Scotch Members he would not have made out a case. ["Hear, hear!"] It was undesirable, in the interest of I Ireland as well as of the House, that the pokey of reprisal which the hon. Member had sketched out should be adopted. ["Hear, hear!"]
  MR. T. M. HEALYobserved that the right hon. Gentleman had said that one Irish Bill had passed the House this Session. Sonic 103 Irish Members were brought across the sea, and as a result of a year's labour they bound a Bill introduced to lower the Wicklow Harbour Loan from four to three-and-a-half per cent. interest or something of that sort. They had been there from the month of January last, and that would be the resell with which they would go back to Ireland in the Jubilee year of Her Majesty, after a 60 years' reign. To suppose that with the merest tinpot Parliament in Ireland they could not have done better for their country than pass suck a piece of legislation was the greatest absurdity. The time had come when a stand must be made against this system, and as it would be no hardship for the English Members to wait, another year for this Bill he must persist in his Motion.
  MR. ALEAN GIBBS: May I appeal to the hon. Member to withdraw his Motion.
  MR. T. M. HEALY: Not a bit.
  MR. ALBAN GIBBSsaid if this Bill were not passed the result would he that the gentleman affected by it would remain without his salary for another year as he had done for many years past.
  Question put "that the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit main."
  The Committee divided:—Ayes, 24; Noes, 99.—(Division List, No. 342.)
  MR. T. M. HEALYthought the time had come when a Motion that the Chairman leave the Chair was a proper, regular and usual one to make. It had been a long and weary sitting, during which much legislation had passed, and it should be remembered that the House had been sitting very late for several nights past.
  1386
  This was not Government business, and the pledge given by the First Lord of the Treasury—he was not in the habit of giving pledges lightly, and certainly he had never known him break them—the pledge given by the First Lord was that if any of these private Members' Bills were seriously objected to he would mot persist with them. He had two objections to this bill, it had not, been starred, making it, distinctly it Government, Bill, and on this point he had no wish to depart from the sense of the Speaker's ruling, and in the second place his suspicions were aroused the unusually long preamble to the and a most unusual amount of verbiage was employed to recommend it to the House. With the merits of the Bill, however, he did not now propose to deal, he would be prepared to do that when forced to consider it. That archdeacon was one who exercised archdeacon functions was a definition he was not prepared to dispute, but he was prepared to dispute the proposition that this was an unopposed private Member's Bill. It was nothing of the kind, and for the Government to attempt to force it through would be a distinct breach of agreement. It was not Government lousiness, and Irish Members would not assist in promoting legislation while they were denied a share for their Own country. On these grounds he moved "that the Chairman do now leave the Chair."
  THE CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS: I do not accept that, Motion. The Committee has just decided by a very considerable majority that Progress shall not be reported, and therefore Clause I will be proceeded with.
  MR. H. LABOUCHEREsaid he was opposed to every species of religious endowment, and therefore he looked with suspicion—
  *THE CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS: The hon. Member must confine himself to the question that Clause 1 stand part of the Bill.
  MR. LABOUCHEREsaid the clause seemed to him to be the very bottom of the Bill. There were twelve parts of a certain sum devoted at the present moment—
  *THE CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS: This has nothing to do with Clause 1.
  MR. T. M. HEALYsaid it seemed to him the Bill was very unfortunately

  1387
  named. The clause declared the Act should be cited as "The Archdeaconry of London (Additional Endowments) Act 1897." This was an unfortunate title, for in connection with the preamble it should be the "Rev. William Hale Hale's Additional Endowments Bill"; it dealt with the claims of a particular individual. If it was a subject in which the Church of England was concerned then let it have a larger, fuller title, that the House might be seized of its importance. The title was a bad one, and required explanation.
  MR. DALYsaid he was bound to confess he had little knowledge of Archdeacons, and he could assure the Committee he had not one among his constituents. [Laughter.]
  *THE CHAIRMAN or WAYS AND MEANS: The hon. Member is not speaking to the clause.
  MR. DALYsaid the Government or whoever had charge of the Bill should offer some explanation of the clause.
  *THE CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANSagain rend tided the hon. Member that his remarks were not relevant to the clause.
  MR. DALYsaid it was never anticipated that the Bill would be brought on at this unusual hour.
  *THE CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS: The hon. Member is not speaking to the clause.
  MR. DALYsaid he would move an Amendment.
  *THE CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS: The clause only cites the short title of the Bill. I must request the hon. Member to resume his seat.
  Question put "That Clause 1 stand part of the Bill."
  MR. D. CRILLYsaid he would move an Amendment to the clause.
  *THE CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS: I have put the question that the clause stand part.
  Question put, "That Clause 1 stand part of the Bill."
  The Committee divided: Ayes, 90; Noes, 24.—(Division List, No. 313).
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURYsaid he did not think the House was in a condition to go on with any further business, and he should not resist any motion to report progress.
  MR. LABOUCHEREasked whether this Bill was going to be taken again. He could assure the right hon. Gentleman that, apart from the view entertained by the hon. and learned Member for Louth, there was very strong objection to the Bill on principle. [Ministerial laughter.] They thoroughly objected to one shilling being taken from funds at present devoted to the maintenance of the fabric of St. Paul's and given to the salary of an Archdeacon.
  M R. LOUGHcould not but think that the hon. Member for Northampton was somewhat late in raising his objection to the Bill. [Ministerial cheers.] The Bill had been discussed several times during the Session, and they had arrived at a common understanding which he was sorry they could not carry out. He thought, however, the right hon. Gentleman had adopted a wise course in arranging to adjourn the matter now. He hoped that better counsels would prevail next time the Bill came before the House.
  MR. T. M. HEALYsaid his great fear was lest this Bill should be rejected afterwards in the House of Lords. [Laughter.]
  Question, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again," put, and agreed to.
  Committee report Progress; to sit again on Friday.

  YORKSHIRE CORONERS BILL.
  Committee deferred till To-morow.
  DISTRICT COUNCILS (WATER SUPPLY FACILITIES) BILL.
  Committee deferred till To-morrow.
  LICENSING (SCOTLAND) ACTS AMENDMENT BILL.
  Committee deferred till Friday.
  HIGH WAYS BILL.
  Second Reading deferred till Friday.

  WAYS AND MEANS.
  Committee deferred till Friday.
  Whereupon, in pursuance of the Order of the House of the 15th day of this instant July, Mr. Speaker adjourned the House without Question put.
  The House adjourned at Ten minutes after Seven o'clock.