Sitting of 1 July 1895

Preamble
The Speaker (the Right Hon. William Court Gully) took the Chair at Three of the Clock.
The two principal Parties in the House changed sides, and the new Government, formed by the Marquess of Salisbury, occupied the Treasury Bench for the first time.

CIVIL SERVICES AND REVENUE DEPARTMENT ESTIMATES, 1895–6 (VOTE ON ACCOUNT).
Estimate presented showing the several Services for which a Third Vote on Account is required for the year ending 31st March 1896 [by Command]; referred to the Committee of Supply, and to be printed. [No. 341.]
ARMY.
Estimate presented of the Sum required to be voted on Account for Army Services for the year ended 31st March, 1896 [by Command]; referred to the Committee of Supply, and to be printed. [No. 342.]
NAVY ESTIMATES, 1895–6 (VOTE ON ACCOUNT).
Estimate presented showing the several Services for which a Vote on Account is required for the year ending 31st March 1896 [by Command]; referred to the Committee of Supply, and to be printed. [No. 343.]
IRISH LAND COMMISSION (PROCEEDINGS.)
Copy presented of Return of Proceedings during the month of March 1895 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
CONGESTED DISTRICTS BOARD (IRELAND).
Copy presented of Fourth Report of the Congested Districts Board for Ireland for the Period from 1st April 1894 to 31st March, 1895 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
FISHERY BOARD (SCOTLAND).
Copy presented of Thirteenth Annual Report of the Fishery Board for Scotland, being for the year 1894 (Part II., Report on Salmon Fisheries [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
DRUNKENNESS AND LICENSED HOUSES (ENGLAND AND WALES).
Return presented relative thereto [Address 1st March; Mr. Rathbone]; to lie upon the Table.
BRITISH MUSEUM.
Return presented relative thereto [ordered 5th April; Sir John Lubbock]; to lie upon the Table.
POST OFFICE EMPLOYÉS.
Return presented relative thereto [ordered 31st May; Mr. Henniker Heaton] to lie upon the Table.
SUEZ CANAL (PURCHASE OF SHARES).
Accounts presented showing the sums received from the Khedive of Egypt, the Charge for Principal and Interest on the Money raised in respect of the Purchase of the above Shares, and the amount of Principal outstanding on 31st March 1895 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
FINANCE ACCOUNTS.
Copy presented of Finance Accounts of the United Kingdom for the year ended 31st March 1895 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
CIVIL LIST PENSIONS.
Copy presented of List of all Pensions granted during the year ended 20th June 1895 and charged upon the Civil List [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
EDUCATIONAL ENDOWMENTS (IRE LAND ACT, 1885 (KILMEAQUE SCHOOL AND PERCEVAL ENDOW MENTS).
Copy presented of Scheme for the Management of the Kilmeaque School and Perceval Endowment [by Act]; to lie upon, the Table.
EDUCATIONAL ENDOWMENTS (IRE LAND) ACT, 1885 (VISCOUNT LIM ERICK'S ENDOWMENT, DUNDALK).
Copy presented of Scheme for the Management of the Viscount Limerick's Endowment, Dundalk [by Ace]; to lie upon the Table.

POST OFFICE (HOLYHEAD AND KINGSTOWN MAIL CONTRACT.)
Copy ordered,
"Of Contract, dated the—day of July 1895, entered into with the City of Dublin Steam Packet Company for the conveyance of Mails between Holyhead and Kingstown, and of Treasury Minute thereon."—(Mr. Hanbury.)
Copy presented accordingly; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 344.]

POST OFFICE (WEST INDIA MAIL CONTRACT.)
Copy ordered,
"Of Contract, dated the 24th day of May 1895, entered into with the Royal Mail Steam Packet Company for the performance of the West India Mail Service, and of Treasury Minute thereon."—(Mr. Hanbury.)
Copy presented accordingly; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 345.]

WEIGHTS AND MEASURES.
Report from the Select Committee, with Minutes of Evidence and Appendix, brought up, and read; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 346.]

ROYAL PATRIOTIC FUND.
Report from the Select Committee, with Minutes of Evidence, brought up, and read [Inquiry not completed];
Report to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 347.]

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.
Fifth Report from Select Committee, with Minutes of Evidence, brought up, and read;
Report to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 348.]

FACTORIES AND WORKSHOPS BILL.
Reported from Standing Committee on Trade, &c.;
Report to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 349.]
Minutes of the Proceedings of the Committee to be printed. [No. 349.]
Bill, as amended by the Standing Committee, to be taken into consideration To-morrow, and to be printed. [Bill 329.]

TELEPHONE SERVICE.
Report from the Select Committee, with Minutes of Evidence, brought up, and read [Inquiry not completed]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 350.]
PUBLIC PETITIONS COMMITTEE.
Thirteenth Report brought up, and read; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed.

COURT OF CRIMINAL APPEAL BILL.
Reported, without Amendment [Inquiry not completed];
Report to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 351.]
Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee to be printed. [No. 351.]

PROVISIONAL ORDER BILLS.
  PIER AND HARBOUR PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 2) BILL.
  Reported with Amendments [Provisional Orders confirmed]; Bill, as amended, considered; read the third time, and passed.
  ELEMENTARY EDUCATION PROVISIONAL ORDER CONFIRMATION (TOTTENHAM) BILL [H.L.]
  Read the first time; and referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, and to be printed.—[Bill 330.]
  LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANIES (PAY- MENT INTO COURT) BILL [H.L.]
  Read the first time; to be read a second time To-morrow, and to be printed.—[Bill 331.]

  NEW WRITS.
  For County of Middlesex (Ealing Division) v. Right hon. George Francis Hamilton, commonly called Lord George Hamilton, one of Her Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State.
  County of Lancashire, North (Blackpool Division) v. Right hon. Sir Matthew White Ridley, Baronet, one of Her Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State.
  County of Lincolnshire (Sleaford Division) v. Right hon. Henry Chaplin, President of the Local Government Board.
  Borough of Croydon v. Right hon. Charles Thompson Ritchie, President of the Board of Trade.—(Mr. Akers-Douglas.)

  BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
  MR. AKERS-DOUGLASwho was received with cheers, said: I do not know whether it would be convenient to move the Adjournment of the House before the large number of Bills on the Paper are read over. I wish to state that I hope my right hon. Friend the First Lord of the Treasury will be in his place to-morrow, and will be able to answer any questions with regard to the conduct of public business. We intend to-morrow to put down a Vote on Account for the Civil Services as the first Order, to be followed by a Vote for the Navy and a Vote for the Army. There is one thing on the Paper—the Naval Works Bill — which I presume
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  most Members desire to see carried into law—["Hear, hear!"]—and which will stand early on the Paper for to-morrow.
  SIR WILLIAM HARCOURTwho was loudly cheered on rising, said: The suggestion the right hon. Gentleman has made is no doubt a convenient one. There may be appeals with reference to one or two Bills on the Paper, but they had better be deferred until the Leader of the House is in his place. With reference to business, as the right hon. Gentleman has announced that a statement will be made to-morrow, I think the most convenient course would be to accede to his suggestion and agree to the Motion to adjourn the House.
  MR. BRYNMOR JONESasked the Secretary to the Treasury whether he could give an assurance that the grant of £3,000 to the University of Wales would be continued. He asked the question because a very important meeting of the governing body of the University would be held to-morrow, and because the Vote for the University was not included in the Estimates. [Cries of "Order!"] It was understood that the late Government would have brought in a Supplementary Estimate on the subject.
  MR. AKERS-DOUGLASsaid, he was afraid he could not give the hon. Member any assurance on the matter until the Leader of the House was in his place.
  SIR WILFRID LAWSON: Mr. Speaker, before the Adjournment of the House I wish to give notice that early next Session—[Cries of "Order!"]—I shall move—
  "That, in the opinion of this House, the legislative power of all existing peers should be abolished—[Loud laughter]— and that no such power should henceforth he conferred on any persons not popularly elected." [Cheers and laughter.]
  House adjourned at Twenty-five minutes before Four o'clock.

Preamble
The Lord Chancellor (Lord Halsbury) took his seat on the Woolsack, at Fifteen minutes after Four of the Clock.
The principal Parties in the House changed sides, the Government formed by the Marquess of Salisbury for the first time occupying the Treasury Bench.

DISTRESS BILL [H.L.]
Returned from the Commons with the Amendment to which the Lords have disagreed not insisted on, and the Amendment made by the Lords in lieu thereof agreed to.
LAND SECURITIES COMPANY BILL [H.L.]
Returned from the Commons agreed to.
MORTGAGEES' COSTS BILL.
Returned from the Commons with the Amendments agreed to.
EARLDOM OF SELBORNE.
Report, &c., of the Select Committee of the House of Commons, communicated pursuant to Message of Tuesday last, and to be printed.—[No. 179.]

EDUCATIONAL ENDOWMENTS (IRE LAND) ACT, 1885.
I. (Kilmeaque School and Perceval Endowment)—Scheme for the management of the Kilmeaque School and Perceval Endowment, provisionally approved by the Lord Lieutenant in Council;
II. (Viscount Limerick's Endowment, Dundalk)—Scheme for the management of the Viscount Limerick's Endowment, Dundalk, provisionally approved by the Lord Lieutenant in Council:
Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and to be printed.—[No. 180.]

UNIVERSITIES (SCOTLAND) ACT, 1889.
1. Ordnance No. 145, St. Andrew's No. 21. Regulations for Patrick Yeaman and Moncreiffe Foundations in St. Mary's College;
2. Ordnance No. 146, St. Andrew's No. 22. Regulations for Glendee and Maxwell Foundations:
Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and to be printed.—[No. 181.]

CIVIL LIST PENSIONS.
List of all pensions granted during the year ended 20th June, 1895, and charged upon the Civil List.
FINANCE.
Accounts of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland for the financial year 1894–95, ended 31st March, 1895.

SUEZ CANAL (PURCHASE OF SHARES).
Accounts showing the sums received from the Khedive of Egypt, the charge for principal and interest on the money raised in respect of the purchase of the above shares, and the amount of principal outstanding on the 31st March, 1895.
Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and ordered to lie on the Table.

IRISH LAND COMMISSION (PROCEED INGS).
Return of proceedings during the month of March 1895.

CONGESTED DISTRICTS BOARD (IRELAND).
Fourth Annual Report of the Congested Districts Board for Ireland, for the period from the 1st April, 1894, to the 31st March, 1895.
Presented (by Command), and ordered to lie on the Table.

PROVISIONAL ORDER BILLS:
  PIER AND HARBOUR PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 2) BILL.
  Read 1a; to be printed; and referred to the Examiners.—[No. 182.]
ELECTRIC LIGHTING PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 4) BILL [H.L.]
  EDUCATIONAL PROVISIONAL ORDER CON FIRMATION (LONDON) BILL [H.L.]
  Read 3a (according to Order), and passed, and sent to the Commons.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 13) BILL, and

  LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (POOR LAW) BILL.
  Moved, That the Order made on the 28th day of March last—
  ''That no Bill brought from the House of Commons confirming any Provisional Order or Provisional Certificate shall be read a second time after Tuesday the 25th day of June next,"
  be dispensed with, and that the Bills be read 2a, agreed to. Bills read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

  LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDER (GAS) BILL.
  Read 3a (according to Order), with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.

  PRICES OF WHEAT AND BREAD ABROAD.
  LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY*LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY moved—
  "That an humble address be presented to Her Majesty for Returns from Her Majesty's Consuls at Bordeaux, Marseilles, Dusseldorf, Hamburg, Buda-Pesth, and Trieste, stating the price of wheat per quarter or the equivalent, the price of household bread per pound or two kilogrammes or the equivalent, the amount of duty on foreign wheat per quarter, and the additional duty on foreign flour, if any, in their districts."
  He said that this Motion was non-contentious, since both Parties and both Front Benches were quite agreed not to disturb the system of unrestricted free imports, and, if there were two opinions, they would be equally interested in knowing the facts as shown by the practice in other countries. The reason for moving for these Returns was a speech at North Walsham by the late Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (the Earl of Kimberley), which had been repeated by Mr. Bryce at Aberdeen, to the effect that protective duties did not benefit the agriculturists and increased the price to the consumer. Shortly after the noble Earl said this, an Englishman at Bordeaux wrote to a London evening paper to say French farmers were getting 50 per cent. more for their wheat than English farmers. Be that as it may, the French duty of 6s. 6d. a quarter and the Germany duty, which was, perhaps, a little higher, were not protective duties, but duties for revenue, and they did not raise the price of bread in those countries above English prices. Unfortunately there was much distrust of one another in both France and Germany, so that in those countries perhaps the farmers' burdens were not lightened by the revenue raised from these duties; and these two Governments used these duties for the purpose of accumulating cartridges. Recent events had shown that, if we had 5s. a quarter duty, no Liberal Chancellor of the Exchequer would expend it on cartridges, neither would the farmers' burdens be lightened; it would probably be used for the payment

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  of Members. He had recently made inquiries in Germany, and upon this contention with his noble Friend (the Earl of Kimberley) he stood to win on France and Germany, but he did not know what result returns from Austria would give. It might be taken that, in England, the 41b. loaf cost from 5d. to 6½d.; in France it costs 5d., and in Germany 6d.
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY: I am certainly not going to trouble the House with a disquisition upon the effect of duties upon the prices of corn or bread; but I wish to say to my noble Friend that if he would take the trouble to read over the very valuable Consular Reports furnished from time to time I think he would admit that they amply confirm the statements which I made. I have made inquiry, and I am told that the Return as moved is not precise enough in its form. If I had still been responsible in the matter, I should have recommended my noble Friend to communicate with the officials of the Board of Trade, whose business it is to deal with these statistics in order to frame the Return in the form in which it could be most conveniently and usefully made.
  THE PRIME MINISTER (The Marquess of SALISBURY): That is exactly what I was going to recommend. The information the noble Lord desires is information it would be interesting to obtain; but it cannot be obtained and given precisely in the terms of the Motion. If the noble Lord will consult the experts either at the Board of Trade or at the Foreign Office, I have no doubt he will get the Motion worded in such a manner as to obtain what he wants. I shall not enter into any abstruse speculations as to the operation of protective duties. I reside sometimes in France; I have often made inquiries on this subject; and I believe these two things to be true:—the French agriculturist obtains a better price for his wheat; but he is no better off than the English agriculturist.
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY: That is exactly what I should have said.
  Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

  MUNICIPAL FRANCHISE (IRELAND) BILL.
  VISCOUNT CLIFDEN: I wish to ask a question about a Bill down on the Paper for To-morrow which interests Irishmen considerably—the Municipal Franchise (Ireland) Bill. I do not see present the noble Lord who has charge of the Bill, but if he is present perhaps he will tell the House whether he intends to go on with it.
  LORD HERSCHELL: The noble Lord is here, and he has every intention of bringing it on.
  VISCOUNT CLIFDEN: Surely it would not be considered non-contentious?
  LORD HERSCHELL: I do not understand there is any regulation which prevents contentious Bills from being brought forward.
  VISCOUNT CLIFDEN: I have heard that no contentious Bill is to be brought on before the Dissolution. I do not know how far that is true.

  MARKET GARDENERS' COMPENSATION BILL.
  Amendment reported (according to Order): Then Standing Order No. 39 considered (according to Order), and dispensed with: Bill read 3a, with the Amendment, and passed, and returned to the Commons.

  COLONIAL BOUNDARIES BILL.
  On the Order for the Second Reading of this Bill,
  THE MARQUESS OF RIPON said: This is distinctly a non-contentious Bill, because I have placed myself in communication with the Secretary of State for War with regard to it, and the right hon. Gentleman informed me this morning that, as no Under Secretary had been appointed at present to represent the

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  Colonial Office in this House, he would be glad if I would proceed with the Bill, and he would take charge of it when it reaches the other House. It is an extremely simple matter. Some time ago the law officers of the Crown gave an opinion that there were doubts as to the legality of certain, small annexations to some of our colonies. The doubts had reference chiefly to certain colonies, the boundaries of which are defined by Acts of Parliament. The Law Officers thought it was doubtful whether the boundaries so defined could be altered, either by contraction or expansion, without an Act of Parliament. Some small islands have been added to New Zealand; and the boundaries of some Australian colonies have been altered. The doubts relate to cases of that kind. The Bill is urgent in this sense, that questions of the kind having been once raised as to the legality of certain proceedings, it is of the greatest possible importance to put an end to those doubts without delay. Therefore, in accordance with the wish of Her Majesty's Government, I move the Second Reading of the Bill. In order to expedite its passing through the other House, I will now give notice that to-morrow I will move the suspension of the Standing Orders and ask you to pass the Bill through the other stages.
  Read 2a (according to Order), and committed to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow; and Standing Order No. 39 to be considered in order to its being dispensed with.

  INDUSTRIAL AND PROVIDENT SOCIE TIES ACT (1893) AMENDMENT BILL.
  On the Order for the Second Reading of this Bill,
  THE MARQUESS OF RIPONsaid, this is a very simple measure which ha passed the House of Commons. I have made it my business to-day to enquire both at the Home Office and the Treasury whether there is any Departmental
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  objection to the Bill, and from both Departments I am informed that there is no such objection. In these circumstances I move the Second Reading. The object of the Bill is merely to make certain very minor alterations in the Act relating to these societies, which was massed two years ago, with regard to one or two small points in which the Act has been found in practice to be defective.
  Read 2a (according to Order), and committed to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

  FRIENDLY SOCIETIES BILL.
  The House, having resolved itself into Committee on this Bill, on the motion of LORD PLAYFAIR,
  Clause 1 agreed to.
  On Clause 2,
  LORD PLAYFAIR LORD PLAYFAIR moved, in page 2, line 1, leave out "one month" and insert "three months."
  Amendment agreed to.
  Clause, as amended, added to the Bill.
  On Clause 3,
  LORD PLAYFAIR LORD PLAYFAIR moved, in page 2, line 8, after "the" insert "some persons shall not be," and also in lines 8 and 9 leave out "shall not be appointed to be" and insert "and."
  Amendments agreed to.
  Clause, as amended, added to the Bill.
  On Clause 4,
  LORD PLAYFAIR LORD PLAYFAIR moved, in page 2, line 15, after "found," to insert "nor to any death certified by a Coroner or

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  Procurator Fiscal to be the subject of a pending inquest or inquiry."
  Amendment agreed to.
  Clause, as amended, added to the Bill.
  Clause 5 agreed to.
  On Clause 6,
  LORD PLAYFAIR LORD PLAYFAIR moved, in page 2, line 36, after "Section" to add,
  "Provided that where a Society pays money to a nominee in ignorance of a marriage subsequent to the nomination, the receipt of the nominee shall be a valid discharge to the Society."
  Amendment agreed to.
  Clause, as amended, added to the Bill.
  Clauses 7, 8, 9, and 10 also added to the Bill.
  LORD PLAYFAIR LORD PLAYFAIR moved to omit Clause 11.
  Amendment agreed to.
  Clauses 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, and 18 agreed to.
  On Clause 19,
  LORD PLAYFAIR LORD PLAYFAIR moved, in page 6, line 38, to leave out from "Societies" to the end of the clause, and insert "and the consequences of non-payment thereof to the end of paragraph (2) of the said schedule."
  Amendment agreed to.
  Clause, as amended, added to the Bill.
  Remaining clauses agreed to.
  Bill reported with Amendments.

  FIRES (FALSE ALARMS) BILL.
  On the Order for the Second Reading of this Bill,
  THE EARL OF CHESTERFIELDsaid, he hoped the noble Marquess opposite would allow the Bill to be read a second
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  time. The object of the Bill was to extend to provincial fire brigades the protection now enjoyed by the metropolitan brigade against false alarms. As the law at present stood, if a mischievous person outside the metropolitan area gave a false alarm, there was no means of punishing him. Under Section 16 of the London County Council (General Powers) Act, 1893, any person giving a false alarm of fire was liable on summary jurisdiction to a penalty not exceeding £20. These false alarms were not infrequent, and he had only that morning received a letter from a Member of the other House of Parliament stating that in his own town in the course of two years the fire brigade had been three times called out on false alarms, and yet the persons who gave the false alarms could not be punished. He begged to move the Second Reading of the Bill, and gave notice that to-morrow he would move the suspension of the Standing Orders in order that the remaining stages of the Bill might be taken.
  Bill read 2a.
  THE PRIME MINISTER THE PRIME MINISTER moved, "That the evening sitting to-morrow do commence at a Quarter past Four o'clock."
  Motion agreed to.
  House adjourned at Ten minutes before Five o'clock.