Sitting of 14 August 1885

Preamble
The House met at a quarter before Two of the clock.
QUESTIONS.

  MRRCHANT SHIPPING—THE LOAD LINE COMMITTEE—IRREGULAR PUBLICATION OF THE REPORT.
  MR. WARTONasked the Secretary to the Board of Trade, Whether he has obtained any further information as to how the Report of the Load Line Committee came to be published in The Times newspaper?
  THE SECRETARY TO THE BOARD (Baron HENRY DE WORMS),in reply, said, that he was glad to be able to supplement the information he gave yesterday upon the subject. He had made inquiries respecting it, and had satisfied himself that the document in question had not been communicated by any official of the Board of Trade. He had also received a communication from Her Majesty's Printers, repudiating the suggestion that the Report in The Times had emanated from their office, and pointing out that the type from which the matter was printed was not set up by them at the time the Report must have reached the newspaper office.

ARMY (INDIA)—THE INDEPENDENT NATIVE STATES—THE MARTINIHENRY RIFLE.
MR. GOURLEYasked the Secretary of State for India, Whether, in consequence of his having decided that Na-

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tive Indian Regiments in the service of the Queen shall be armed with Martini-Henry rifles, it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to recommend that the armies of independent Native Princes shall be similarly armed?
THE SECRETARY OF STATE (Lord RANDOLPH CHURCHILL), in reply, said, that the subject was a very large one, and was surrounded with many difficulties. He was not aware that the arming of the regiments of the Native Princes of India with the Martini-Henry rifle had ever been considered by the Government of India.

CENTRAL ASIA—RUSSIA AND AFGHANISTAN—THE AFGHAN BOUNDARY COMMISSION.
MR. GOURLEYasked the Secretary of State for India, To be good enough to inform the House if the duties of Lord Granville's Afghan Boundary Commission have been completed; if so, whether it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to order its withdrawal, and arrange amicably between London and St. Petersburg the existing trivial dispute regarding Zulfikar?
THE SECRETARY OF STATE (Lord RANDOLPH CHURCHILL): The duties of the Afghan Boundary Commission have not yet been completed. It is not the intention of Her Majesty's Government at the present moment to order its withdrawal; but Sir Joseph Ridgeway and those who are under his command have done, and are still doing, good and useful work. I must altogether take exception to the adjective which the hon. Member (Mr. Gourley) has inserted in the last line of his Question, where he alludes to the dispute regarding Zulfikar as "trivial." I take exception to that adjective; but I may say that Her Majesty's Government are not altogether without some confidence that before long they may be fortunate enough to arrive at a satisfactory settlement of the remaining points of the Boundary question, which have not yet been decided upon.

ROYAL COMMISSION ON THE DEPRESSION OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY —REPRESENTATION OF AGRICULTURE.
MR. STORERasked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, How it happens that
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on the Commission about to be appointed regarding the Depression of Industry in this country, including, as it is understood, the connection between the depression in Agriculture and the depression in other Trades acting and re-acting upon each other, at present no Member of that Commission has been appointed who is supposed to have any practical knowledge of Agriculture?
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: Sir, I am not prepared to admit that there is no Member of the Commission who has practical knowledge of agriculture. The Question is, however, one which I cannot answer without Notice. I think my noble Friend (Lord Iddesleigh) is still in communication with one or two Gentlemen upon the subject, and it is possible that the result may be an addition to the Commission of some such Gentlemen as the hon. Member desires.
MR. CAUSTONasked whether it was not by an afterthought that the subject of agriculture had been added to the Commission?
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: No, Sir; it was by no afterthought at all that the subject referred to is to be considered by the Royal Commission on Depression of Trade. Agriculture, as such, is not included within the scope of the inquiry, though, of course, the obvious connection between trade and agriculture will secure that the depression in agriculture, so far as it is influenced by the depression of trade, shall be considered.
The following List of the Commissioners appeared in The London Gazette, September 1:—
The Earl of IDDESLEIGH (Chairman), The Earl of DUNRAVEN, Right Hon. G. SCLATER-BOOTH, Sir JAMES ALLPORT, Knt., JOHN AURD, Esq., THOMAS BIRTWHISTLE, Esq., LIONEL LEWIS COHEN, Esq., JAMES PORTER CORRY, Esq., DAVID DALE, Esq., CHARLES JAMES DRUMMOND, Esq., WILLIAM FARRER ECROYD, Esq., HENRY HUCKS GIBBS, Esq., WILLIAM HENRY HOULDSWORTH, Esq., WILLIAM LAWIES JACKSON, Esq., GEORGE AULDJO JAMIESON, Esq., NEVILLE LUBBOCK, Esq., PHILIP ALBERT MUNTZ, Esq., ARTHUR O'CINNOR, Esq., ROBERT HARRY INGLIS PALGRAVE, Esq., CHARLES MARK PALMER, Esq., WILLIAN OEARCE, Esq., BONAMY PRICE, Esq., Professor of Political Economy, Oxford University, SAMUEL STOREY, Esq.
HERBERT GEORGE MURRAY, Esq., Secretary.

ROYAL IRISH CONSTABULARY—EXTRA POLICE; QUEEN'S COUNTY.
MR. ARTHUR O'CONNORasked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether, if the authorities in Dublin do not object, the Treasury will accede to the recommendations of the Justices of Queen's County, that the extra police shall be withdrawn, and that in the future the county force shall consist of 215 men?
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER, in reply, said, that he did not think the number of police in any county could be altered separately. It would, however, of course, be his duty to consider any representation that might be made to the Treasury on the subject.

PARLIAMENT—BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE—INFANTS BILL.
MR. FIRTHasked whether the House could not proceed with the Infants Bill, as it was down on the Orders of the Day?
MR. SPEAKER, in reply, said, the Orders of the Day had not been reached. There could be no object in entering upon the Orders of the Day with the prospect of immediate interruption.

PROROGATION OF THE PARLIAMENT.
Message to attend The LORDS COMMISSIONERS—
The House went;—and a Royal Commission to that purpose having been read, the Royal Assent was given to several Bills.
And afterwards Her Majesty's Most Gracious Speech was delivered to both Houses of Parliament by the Lord High Chancellor (in pursuance of Her Majesty's Command).
Then a Commission for proroguing the Parliament was read.
After which,
THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid—
My Lords, and Gentlemen,
By virtue of Her Majesty's Commission, under the Great Seal, to us and other Lords directed, and now read, we do, in Her Majesty's Name and in obedience to Her Commands, prorogue this Parliament to Saturday the 31st day of October next, to be then here holden; and this Parliament is accordingly prorogued to Saturday the 31st day of October next.

MINUTES.]—PUBLIC BILLS—Royal Assent—Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) 148 & 49 Vict. c. 64
; Telegraph Acts Amendment [48 & 49 Vict. c.. 58]; Expiring Laws Continuance [48 & 49 Vict.. c. 59]; Patent Law Amendment [48 & 49 Vict.. c. 63]; Crown Lands [48 & 49 Vict.. c. 79]; Parliamentary Elections (Returning Officers) [48 & 49 Vict. c. 62]; Federal Council of Australasia [48 & 49 Vict.. c. 60]; Secretary for Scotland [48 & 49 Vict. c. 61]; Registration Appeals (Ireland) [48 & 49 Vict. c. 60]; Metropolitan Police Staff Superannuation [48 & 49 Vict. c. 68]; Public Works Loans [48 & 49 Vict.. c. 65]; East India Army Pensions Deficiency [48 & 49 Vict.. c. 67]; Criminal Law Amendment [48 & 49 Vict.. a. 69]; County Officers and Courts (Ireland) (Pensions) [48 & 49 Vict. c. 71]; Sea Fisheries (Scotland) Amendment [48 & 49 Vict. c. 70]; Evidence by Commission [48 & 49 Vict.. c. 74]; Land Purchase (Ireland) [48 & 49 Vict.. c. 73]; Prevention of Crimes Amendment [48 & 49 Vict. c. 75]; River Thames (No. 2) [48 & 49 Vict.. c. 76]; Housing of the Working Classes (England) [48 & 49 Vict.. c. 72]; Labourers (Ireland) (No. 2) [48 & 49 Vict. c. 77]; Educational Endowments (Ireland) [48 & 49 Vict.. c. 78]; Poor Law Unions' Officers (Ireland) [48 & 49 Vict.. c. 80]; Elementary Education Provisional Order Confirmation (London) [48 & 49 Vict. c. clxxxix]; Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Orders [48 & 49 Vict.. c. cxc].

PROROGATION OF THE PARLIAMENT— HER MAJESTY'S SPEECH.
THE PARLIAMENTwas this day prorogued by Commission.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord HALSBURY)acquainted the House that Her Majesty had been pleased to grant two several Commissions; one for declaring Her Royal Assent to several Bills agreed to by both Houses of Parliament, and the other for proroguing the Parliament:—And the LORDS COMMISSIONERS;—namely, The LORD CHANCELLOR; The LORD CHAMBERLAIN (The Earl of Lathom); THE MARQUESS OF WATERFORD (Master of the Buck-hounds); The EARL OF COVENTRY (Captain of the Gentleman-at-Arms); and The Earl of HARDWICKE—being in their Robes, and seated on a Form between the Throne and the Woolsack; and the Commons being come, with their Speaker, and the Commission to that

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purpose being read, the Royal Assent was given to several Bills.
Then The LORD CHANCELLOR, pursuant to Her Majesty's Command, delivered Her Majesty's Speech, as follows:—
"My Lords, and Gentlemen,
"I AM glad to be able to relieve you from the labours of a Session which has been protracted and eventful.
"When you assembled in October last I informed you that an Expedition was advancing up the Valley of the Nile for the relief of Khartoum. Three months later, with a deep sorrow, which was shared by all my people, I learnt that the Expedition had arrived too late, and that the heroic General Gordon and his companions had fallen. An endeavour, which was ineffectual, was made to reach Khartoum by constructing a railway from Suakin to Berber. My troops were ultimately withdrawn from the whole of the Eastern Soudan except Suakin, and from the Western Soudan down to Alashkert.
"Although the objects of the Expedition have not been attained, I have great reason to be proud of the bravery and endurance which have been displayed by my soldiers and sailors, and of the skill with which they have been commanded.
"I received with great pleasure loyal offers of military assistance in this campaign from my Colonies and from the native Princes in India, and a Contingent from the Colony of New South Wales served with distinction in the actions which took place on the coast of the Red Sea.
"The death of the Mahdi will probably enable me to perform with less difficulty the duties towards the Ruler
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and people of Egypt which events have imposed upon me. I shall not relax in my efforts to place the government and good order of that country upon a firm foundation.
"My relations with other Powers are of a friendly nature.
"Difficulties which at one time were of an anxious character arose between my Government and that of Russia as to the limits of the territory of my ally, the Ameer of Afghanistan. Negotiations still continue, and will, I trust, lead, at an early period, to a satisfactory settlement.
"The progress of events in South Africa has compelled me, in the interest of the native races, to take under my protection Bechuanaland and certain adjacent territories.
"I am taking the necessary steps to place the north-western frontier of my Indian Empire in a condition of adequate defence, in the absence of which the prosperity and tranquillity of my Indian subjects are liable from time to time to be interrupted and disturbed.
"Gentlemen of the House of Commons,
"I thank you for the liberality with which, during the past year, you have provided for the Services of the country.
"My Lords, and Gentlemen,
"I have had pleasure in giving my assent to a measure for enabling federal action in certain matters to be taken by the Colonies of Australasia; to a much-needed amendment of the Criminal Law; and to a Bill for establishing a new Department for Scottish affairs. I have also been glad to concur in a measure for increasing

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the number of occupying freeholders in Ireland.
"I notice with sincere gratification that an endeavour has been made by a Bill, to which I have assented, to diminish the evils of overcrowding and of insanitary dwellings, which hinder so seriously the moral and material well-being of the labouring classes.
"I regret to say that the depression which has so long prevailed in many important trades and in the agricultural and manufacturing industries of the country still continues. I have directed the issue of a Commission to inquire into the causes of it, and to ascertain whether it can be alleviated by any legislative measures.
"During the past Session your time has been principally occupied by the enlargement of the Electorate, and the extensive changes which you have, in consequence, made in the constitution of the House of Commons. I earnestly trust that these comprehensive measures may increase the efficiency of Parliament, and may add to the contentment of my people.
"It is my purpose before long to seek their counsel by a dissolution of Parliament. I pray that the blessing of God may rest upon their extended liberties, and that the numbers who are called to the exercise of new powers will use them with the sobriety and discernment which for so long a period have marked the history of this nation."
Then a Commission for proroguing the Parliament was read.
After which,
THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid—
My Lords, and Gentlemen,
By virtue of Her Majesty's Commission, under the Great Seal, to us and
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other Lords directed, and now read, we do, in Her Majesty's Name, and in obedience to Her Commands, prorogue this Parliament to Saturday the Thirty-first day of October next, to be then here holden; and this Parliament is accordingly prorogued to Saturday the Thirty-first day of October next.