Sitting of 16 August 1878

MINUTES.
— PUBLIC BILLS — Withdrawn— Coroners [303]; Magistrates (Summary Jurisdiction) [304].
The House met at a quarter before One of the clock.

QUESTIONS.

  ARMY—THE ROSTER FOR MEDICAL OFFICERS.—QUESTIONS.
  SIR JOSEPH M'KENNAasked the Secretary of State for War, If it be the fact, and if so why is it, that the roster for Medical Officers has, since 1873, been kept as a private document, which officers are not allowed to see in the same manner as customary between 1858 and 1873; and, whether he is prepared to place Medical Officers on a footing, as regards exchanges, similar to that on which the other branches of the service now stand?
  COLONEL ARBUTHNOTasked the Secretary of State for War, Whether the Committee appointed to inquire into matters affecting the Medical Department has reported, and when such Report will be circulated; if he will state if there is any objection to a system of open and unconditional exchange, such as exists in the combatant branches of the Army, being allowed to prevail in the Medical Department, and why the old system of keeping a public roster for Foreign Service has been abandoned; and, whether he will order a roster to be kept, either at the Adjutant General's Office or at the Office of the Director General of the Medical Department, which shall be open to inspection by all members of the Department?
  COLONEL STANLEY: Sir, the roster for medical officers was, up to the time of the late Director General of the Army Medical Department—that is to say, 1873—hung up in the waiting-room of the Department, in accordance with the regulations of 1859; but it was found that this practice led to various abuses,

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  consequent upon Army exchange agents and other persons coming and inspecting the roster, and then writing letters to the officers who were likely to be concerned. That led to abuses, and it was, therefore, removed from the waiting-room, and was kept in the office of the Surgeon General of the Medical Department; but it is open to the inspection of any officer, and any officer can ascertain his place upon it by application by letter to the Surgeon General. The Committee appointed to inquire into the Medical Department have reported, and I trust to lay their Report upon the Table as soon as the House meets next Session. I believe it will be in a completed state, and fit for Parliamentary publication, by that time. I have further to say, that my own personal wish is to see exchange among medical officers made as free as it can be, compatible with the interests of the Service; but I am bound to point out that, in the other Departments, it can never be so entirely unrestricted as in the combatant branches, and I am not prepared offhand to say it could be entirely assimilated to the system which exists in the combatant branches. That, I think, answers the Questions of both my hon. Friends, and that is all that I am in a position to say at the moment.

TURKEY—THE PAPERS.

  QUESTION.
  SIR CHARLES W. DILKEasked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, When the document named at page 98 of "Turkey, 1878, No. 42," will be published?
  MR. BOURKE,in reply, said, that the document referred to had not been published with the last batch of Papers, because it was not dated. It would, however, be in the hands of hon. Members in a very few days.

CENTRAL ASIA AND AFGHANISTAN.

  QUESTION.
  SIR CHARLES W. DILKEasked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether there is any objection to the publication of Papers relating to negotiations on the affairs of Central Asia and Afghanistan which may have taken place between England and
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  Russia since the publication of the Papers of 1874?
  MR. BOURKE,in reply, said, that there was no objection, and that they would be in the hands of hon. Members in a few days.

THE EASTERN QUESTION—THE ANGLO-TURKISH CONVENTION-REFORMS IN ASIA MINOR.

  QUESTION.
  MR. E. JENKINSsaid, he wished to put a Question, either to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or to the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whichever might be most convenient, and in order to have an opportunity of explaining his Question, he would conclude with a Motion. There was a telegram in one of that morning's papers to this effect—
  "That the difficulties which have arisen between Turkey and England in reference to the introduction of reforms in Asia Minor have been almost entirely removed. Sir Austen Layard has abandoned some of his demands which had been objected to by the Porte. The latter declared that the Treaty respecting Cyprus did not imply the renunciation by Turkey of her independence. Turkey would listen to the counsels of England, but would undertake the reforms herself, without there being any necessity for the installation in Asia Minor of British residents, who would seek to introduce reforms, instead of merely watching for their execution."
  Now, with reference to certain declarations which had been made from the front Bench regarding the meaning of the Convention, and the assertion that it was not intended on the part of Her Majesty's Government to be a sham, he would ask the right hon. Gentleman Whether this was true—that the Porte had practically refused to give any material guarantees with reference to good government and the reforms to be introduced in Asiatic Turkey; and whether, therefore, the objections that were taken on that—the Opposition—side of the House, that the Paper Convention of June 4 was not a real guarantee, were not sustained by the fact that it had no effective guarantee in it to enable the British Government to say that the reforms which it was to insist upon would be carried out? He wished also to ask, Whether any information had been received from Sir Austen Layard which confirmed the telegram which he had

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  read; and whether, supposing that the matter was arranged in the interval of the Recess, Her Majesty's Government would make public the arrangement which had been entered into between the Government and Turkey. He begged to move the adjournment of the House.
  Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."— (Mr. Edward, Jenkins.)
  MR. BOURKE,in reply, said, he had not seen the telegram referred to; but, as he understood it, it gave a totally different opinion of the state of affairs from that implied in the interpretation which had been given of it by the hon. Member. All he could state on the subject was that negotiations were going on between Sir Austen Layard and the Porte, and that when those negotiations had reached the point at which it would be desirable to publish the communications, Her Majesty's Government would have no objection to that being done.
  Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

  ISLAND OF CYPRUS—HEALTH OF THE TROOPS.—QUESTION.
  MR. MORGAN LLOYD: I take this opportunity of asking, Whether the statement in the "Daily News" this morning with regard to the health of the troops at Cyprus is correct or not, because, according to that account, the state of the troops is very alarming? The fever seems to be very extensive indeed, and it would seem that the troops are cantoned in places which must necessarily be unhealthy. It would appear to those who, like myself, perhaps, know very little about the matter, that instead of making an old place like Nicosia the military centre and capital of the Island, it would be better to commence in a new place altogether, where there was no fever such as seems to be so very prevalent there. I wish to know, whether there is any foundation for the very alarming statement of the "Daily News?"
  COLONEL STANLEY: Sir, in reply to Questions which were put to me two days ago, it was then my duty to state that a telegram received from Sir Garnet Wolseley contained the announcement that the sickness was about 6 per cent of the men in hospital, mostly for fever
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  of a mild type. I have since then had telegrams about various other matters of business, and there has been no reference, except in one of them, to any further increase of sickness. I may also say that letters, both public and private, which I have had, although they refer to cases of fever being undoubtedly very numerous, speak of them as of a comparatively mild type, although some of them, no doubt, been complicated by sunstroke, owing to the intense heat. There has been, so far as we are aware, only three deaths since our troops first landed in Cyprus, and in a telegram which came to hand this morning, about other matters, there are words which certainly do not appear very clear, but which undoubtedly imply that such sickness as there has been is on the decrease. I can only say that it is as much a puzzle to me as it is to some hon. Members, the discrepancy between the official and the private accounts which I receive and the accounts which appear in some organs of the daily Press. I am not saying we can have absolute knowledge on the subject. I can only give the House that knowledge which I possess, and watch the question as carefully as possible. I may add that upon the earliest indications of there being an increase of sickness, we took the precaution of placing six doctors under orders to go out, and those officers either have sailed or are on the point of sailing.

SPAIN—CASE OF GEORGE WHITE.

  QUESTION.
  CAPTAIN PIM: Sir, I wish to ask my hon. Friend the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs a Question, of which I have given him private Notice. It is to ask him, If he will be kind enough to telegraph at once to the Consul General at Havannah in reference to the case of George White, the British sailor, about whose imprisonment there I put a Question to Mm yesterday? I can only say that it would be an act of great kindness to allay the anxiety of his friends and relations at Gravesend.
  MR. BOURKE: In answer to my hon. and gallant Friend, I can only say that I will consult my noble Friend the Foreign Secretary, and if he has no objection, I will telegraph as my hon. and gallant Friend desires.

ORDERS OF THE DAY.
  CORONERS BILL.— [BILL 303.]
  (Mr. Secretary Cross, Mr. Attorney General, Mr. Solicitor General)
SECOND READING. ORDER DISCHARGED.

  BILL WITHDRAWN.
  MR. ASSHETON CROSS,in moving that the Order for the Second Reading of the Bill be discharged, said, he would take that opportunity of stating that if he succeeded in getting the measure sent before a Select Committee next year, he would bring before that Committee the question of the election of Coroners.
  Motion agreed to.
  Order for Second Reading read, and discharged; Bill withdrawn.

  MAGISTRATES (SUMMARY JURISDICTION) BILL.— [BILL 304.]
  (Mr. Secretary Cross, Mr. Attorney General, Mr. Solicitor General.)
SECOND READING. ORDER DISCHARGED.

  BILL WITHDRAWN.
  MR. ASSHETON CROSS,in moving that the Order for the Second Reading of the Bill be discharged, said, he wished to call attention to a matter which appeared to involve considerable hardship. The magistrates throughout the country seemed to be under the impression that the Small Penalties Act was to be put in force in every case— that, in short, they looked upon it as a matter of course that the Act should be put in force—whereas it was optional whether they should put it in force or not. There was no doubt that under this erroneous impression a great many persons had been brought under the operation of the Act who would not have boon so brought under its operation, if the magistrates had exercised their discretion in the matter.
  MR. HOPWOODsaid, the matter-referred to by the right hon. Gentleman was a great grievance and mischief, and it was a great disappointment that there had not been time to pass the Bill. He
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  hoped it would be re-introduced sufficiently early next Session.
  Motion agreed to.
  Order for Second Reading read, and discharged; Bill withdrawn.

NAVY—H.M.S. "VANGUARD."

  QUESTION.
  In reply to Mr. D. JENKINS,
  MR. W. H. SMITHsaid, he was sorry to say that he had no very satisfactory information to give the House with regard to the raising of the Vanguard. As far as he could see, the contractor had not made progress with the necessary arrangements for raising that ship. They had been told from time to time that the contractor was building lighters for that purpose; but he (Mr. W. H. Smith) had no evidence that he was really doing so, and it was to be feared that when the 31st of October came the Vanguard would be found remaining where she was at the present moment.

  PROROGATION OF THE PARLIAMENT.
  Message to attend The LORDS COMMISSIONERS:—
  The House went;—and a Royal Commission to that purpose having been read, the Royal Assent was given to several Bills.
  And afterwards Her Majesty's Most Gracious Speech was delivered to both Houses of Parliament by the Lord High Chancellor (in pursuance of Her Majesty's Command).
  Then a Commission for proroguing the Parliament was read.
  After which,
  THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid—
  My Lords, and Gentlemen,
  By virtue of Her Majesty's Commission, under the Great Seal, to us and other Lords directed, and now read, we do, in Her Majesty's Name, and in obedience to Her Commands, prorogue this Parliament to Saturday the 2nd day of November next, to be then here holden; and this Parliament is accordingly prorogued to Saturday the 2nd day of November next.

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—Royal Assent— Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) [41 & 42 Vict. c. 65]; Exchequer Bills and Bonds (No. 2) [41 & 42 Vict. c. 64]; Intermediate Education (Ireland) [41 & 42 Vict. c. 66]; Idiots, &c. (Ireland) [41 & 42 Viet. c. 60]; Contagious Diseases (Animals) [41 & 42 Vict. c. 74]; Foreign Jurisdiction [41 & 42 Vict. c. 67]; Statute Law Revision [41 & 42 Vict. c. 79]; Education (Scotland) [41 & 42 Vict. c. 78]; Marriages (Fiji) [41 & 42 Vict. c. 61]; Turnpike Acts Continuance, &c. [41 & 42. Vict. c. 62]; Prison (Officers' Superannuation [41 & 42 Vict. c. 63]; Highways [41 & 42 Vict. c. 77]; Locomotives on Highways (Scotland) [41 & 42 Vict. c. 58]; Drainage and Improvement of Land (Ireland) [41 & 42 Vict. c. 59]; Bishoprics [41 & 42 Vict. c. 68]; Territorial Waters Jurisdiction [41 & 42 Vict. c. 73]; Telegraphs [41 & 42 Vict. c. 76]; Arranmore Polling District (Ireland) [41 & 42 Vict. c. 75]; Metropolitan Commons [41 & 42 Vict. c. 71]; Sale of Intoxicating Liquors on Sunday (Ireland) [41 & 42 Vict. c. 72]; Petty Sessions Clerks and Fines (Ireland) [41 & 42 Vict. c. 69]; Expiring Laws Continuance [41 & 42 Vict. c. 70];
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Inclosure Provisional Orders [41 & 42 Vict. c. ccxxxiii]; Tramways Orders Confirmation (No. 1) [41 & 42 Vict. c. ccxxxi]; Tramways Orders Confirmation (No. 3) [41 & 42 Vict. c. ccxxxii].

PROROGATION OF THE PARLIAMENT— HER MAJESTY'S SPEECH.
The PARLIAMENTwas this day prorogued by Commission.
THE LORD CHANCELLORacquainted the House that Her Majesty had been pleased to grant two several Commissions, one for declaring Her Royal Assent to several Acts agreed upon by both Houses of Parliament, and the other for proroguing the Parliament:—And the LORDS COMMISSIONERS —namely, The LORD CHANCELLOR; The LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (The Duke of Richmond and Gordon); The LORD PRIVY SEAL (The Duke of Northumberland); The LORD CHAMBERLAIN OP THE HOUSEHOLD (The Marquess of Hertford); and The LORD SKELMERS-DALE—being in their Robes, and seated on a Form between the Throne and the Woolsack; and the COMMONS being come, with their Speaker, and the Commission to that purpose being read, the ROYAL ASSENT was given to several Bills.
Then THE LORD CHANCELLOR,pursuant to Her Majesty's Command, delivered HER MAJESTY'S SPEECH, as follows:—
"My Lords, and Gentlemen,
"WHEN, in a critical condition of public affairs, you assembled at the commencement of the year, I pointed out to you that, in the interests of my Empire, precautions might become necessary, for which I appealed to your liberality to provide. At the same time I assured you that no efforts in the cause of peace should be wanting on my part.
"Your response was not ambiguous, and contributed largely to a pacific solution of the difficulties which then existed. The terms of agreement between Russia and the Porte, so far as they affected pre-existing Treaties,

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were, after an interval of discussion, submitted to a Congress of the Powers; and their councils have resulted in a peace which I am thankful to believe is satisfactory and likely to be durable. The Ottoman Empire has not emerged from a disastrous war without severe loss; but the arrangements which have been made, while favourable to the subjects of the Porte, have secured to it a position of independence which can be upheld against aggression.
"I have concluded a Defensive Convention with the Sultan, which has been laid before you. It gives, as regards his Asiatic Empire, a more distinct expression to the engagements which in principle I, together with other Powers, accepted in 1856, but of which the form has not been found practically effectual. The Sultan has, on the other hand, bound himself to adopt and carry into effect the measures necessary for securing the good government of those Provinces. In order to promote the objects of this Agreement, I have undertaken the occupation and administration of the Island of Cyprus.
"In aiding to bring about the settlement which has taken place, I have been assisted by the discipline and high spirit of my Forces by sea and by land, by the alacrity with which my Reserves responded to my call, by the patriotic offers of military aid by my people in the Colonies, and by the proud desire of my Indian Army to be reckoned among the defenders of the British Empire, a desire justified by the soldierly qualities of the force recently quartered at Malta.
"The spontaneous offers of troops made by many of the Native Governments in India were very gratifying
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to me, and I recognise in them a fresh manifestation of that feeling towards my Crown and Person which has been displayed in many previous instances.
"My relations with all Foreign Powers continue to be friendly.
"Although the condition of affairs in South Africa still affords some ground for anxiety, I have learnt with satisfaction from the reports of my civil and military officers that the more serious disturbances which had arisen among the native population on the frontiers of the Cape Colony are now terminated.
"Gentlemen of the House of Commons,
"I thank you for the liberal supplies which you have voted for the public service.
"My Lords, and Gentlemen,
"The Act which has been passed for amending and greatly simplifying the law relating to Factories and Workshops will, I trust, still further secure the health and education of those who are employed in them.
"I have had much pleasure in giving my assent to a measure relating to the Contagious Diseases of Cattle, which, by affording additional securities against the introduction and spread of those diseases, will tend to encourage the breeding of live stock in the country and to increase the supply of food to my people.
"You have amended the Law as to Highways in a manner which cannot but improve their classification and management, and at the same time relieve inequalities in the burden of their maintenance.
"I trust that advantage will be taken of the means which you have provided for dividing Bishoprics in the more populous districts of the country, and thus increasing the efficiency of the Church.
"I anticipate the best results from the wise arrangements which you have made for the encouragement of intermediate education in Ireland.
"The measure for amending and consolidating the Public Health Laws in that country is well calculated to promote the important object at which it aims.
"The measure passed in regard to Roads and Bridges in Scotland and for the abolition of Tolls will greatly improve the management of highways in that part of the United Kingdom; while the Acts relating to Education and to Endowed Schools and Hospitals cannot fail to extend the benefits of education and improve the administration of charitable endowments in that country.
"In bidding you farewell, I pray that the blessing of Almighty God may rest on your recent labours and accompany you in the discharge of all your duties."
Then a Commission for proroguing the Parliament was read.
After which,
THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid—
My Lords, and Gentlemen,
By virtue of Her Majesty's Commission, under the Great Seal, to us and other Lords directed, and now read, we do, in Her Majesty's Name, and in obedience to Her Commands, prorogue this Parliament to Saturday the second day of November next, to be then here holden; and this Parliament is accordingly prorogued to Saturday the second day of November next.