Sitting of 7 February 1873

MINUTES.
SELECT COMMITTEE—Public Accounts, nominated; East India (Finance), appointed; Imprisonment for Debt, appointed.
PUBLIC BILLS — Resolutions in Committee—Ordered—First Reading—Burials* [9]; University Tests (Dublin)* [12]; Permissive Prohibitory Liquor* [14]; Occasional Sermons* [22]; Public Worship Facilities* [27].
Ordered—First Reading—Polling Districts (Ireland) [1]; Local Government Supplemental* [2]; Household Franchise (Counties)* [3]; Poor Law (Scotland)* [4]; Ancient Monuments* [5]; Municipal Officers Superannuation* [6]; Married Women's Property Act (1870) Amendment* [7]; Agricultural Children* [8]; Seduction Laws Amendment* [10]; Habitual Drunkards* [11]; Poison Ministers Act (1863) Amendment* [13]; Marriage with a Deceased Wife's Sister* [15]; Local Taxation(Accounts)* [16]; Women s Disabilities* [17]; Canonries [18]; Salmon Fisheries* [19];Real Estate Intestacy* [20]; Hypothec Abolition (Scotland)* [21]; Union Rating (Ireland)* [23]; Married Women's Property Act (1870) Amendment (No. 2)* [24]; Sites for Places of Religious Worship* [25]; Parliamentary Electors Registration* [26]; Union of Benefices* [28]; Contagious Diseases Acts Repeal (1866–1869)* [29]; Aldermen and Councillors Qualification* [30]; Fires* [31]; Parliamentary Elections (Expenses)* [32]; Bastardy Laws Amendment* [33].

COMMITTEE ON BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.—QUESTION.
SIR HENRY SELWIN-IBBETSONasked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether it is the intention of the Government, in consequence of the Orders relating to the Business of the House passed last Session having lapsed, to move for a Committee on the subject?
MR. GLADSTONE,in reply, said, that when the Government made a proposal on this subject on a former occasion there was a considerable division of opinion in the House with respect to it. At present their condition was such that they could not afford to spend time on discussions that would be resultless, and on that account they did not propose to appoint a Committee. At the same time, if they had any reason to believe that there was a general concurrence of opinion in favour of such a measure, they should be very glad to avail themselves of it, and to make the Motion suggested.
SIR HENRY SELWIN-IBBETSONsaid, that in consequence of the answer just given by the right hon. Gentleman,
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he would, on an early day, call attention to the present state of the Rules with respect to the Business of the House, and submit a Resolution on the subject.

THE ALABAMA CLAIMS.—QUESTION.
MR. STAVELEY HILLasked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether it is intended to lay upon the Table of the House the Judgment of the Lord Chief Justice of England and the other Arbitrators at Geneva upon the Alabama Claims?
MR. GLADSTONEbelieved that the whole of the Papers comprehended in the Question of the hon. Gentleman had already been laid on the Table, and were included in Papers presented on the preceding night.

BOARD OF TRADE—FOG SIGNALS.

  QUESTION.
  MR. EASTWICKasked the President of the Board of Trade, Whether the recent visit of the Deputy Master of the Trinity House to North America was made in an official capacity and at the public expense; and, whether the results of that visit have been or will be communicated to the Board of Trade?
  MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE,in reply, said, that the recent visit of the Deputy Master of Trinity House to Canada was an official visit, and was undertaken principally for the purpose of making inquiry into the experience obtained by light-house keepers on the subject of fog signals. The result had been communicated to the Board of Trade, and they had communicated it to the other light-house authorities. They had reason to believe that the information obtained would be found extremely valuable.

  CRIMINAL LAW—TREATMENT OF UNTRIED PRISONERS.—QUESTION.
  MR. BRADYasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, If he intends making any alteration in the present mode of detaining persons charged with crime prior to their being committed or discharged after inquiry before a magistrate or magistrates?
  MR. BRUCE,in reply, said, that the rules relating to the detention of prisoners were, under the Prisons Act of 1865, made by the Justices in Quarter

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  Sessions. They were subsequently laid before the Secretary of State, who affirmed them after consultation with the Inspectors of Prisons. Most of the existing prison rules had been made, examined, and affirmed in the years 1865 and 1866. It was competent to the Justices to make the rules which had been made, and to make further rules, and they ought undoubtedly in so doing to be guided by considerations of justice and humanity, and a due regard for the position of persons against whom no primâfacie charge had been proved. The Secretary of State had no power to initiate an alteration in the rules; but he had no doubt that after the attention which had been directed to the subject the Justices would examine the existing rules so as to modify any regulations that did not sufficiently provide for the proper treatment of untried prisoners.

  COAL SUPPLY.—QUESTION.
  MR. CORRANCEasked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to institute any inquiry, by commission or otherwise, into the causes which have led to the existing failure in the supply of Coal?
  MR. GLADSTONE: I cannot wonder that, in the present extraordinary and very exceptional state of the market for the supply of coal, the public interest that is felt with regard to it should find expression in the Question of the hon. Gentleman. And I may say that a proof that we do not regard the question of the supply of coal as absolutely beyond the view and action of the Executive Government may be found in the measure adopted by the Government some time ago, when a Commission was appointed for the purpose of investigating and prosecuting an inquiry with respect to that supply. But, of course, the Question of the hon. Gentleman has reference to the momentary state of the market. Well, with respect to that subject, so limited, I will confine myself to stating that we do not intend to make any inquiry by Commission or otherwise, and the reason we have arrived at that decision is, that we doubt very much whether it is a subject in respect of which any prominent action or interference of the Executive Government would be advantageous.

THE CIVIL SERVICE (IRELAND).

  QUESTION.
  MR. PLUNKETasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland, Whether the Commissioners appointed to inquire into the case of the Civil Servants of the Crown serving in Ireland have made their Report; and, if so, whether Her Majesty's Government will lay their Report upon the Table of the House?
  MR. BAXTER: The Commissioners have made a general Report, and they have also made particular Reports with respect to the Dublin Metropolitan Police, Royal Irish Constabulary, Resident Magistracy, the Local Government Board, and the General Register Office. These Reports are now under the consideration of the Government, and pending their decision upon them it is not proposed to lay them upon the Table of the House.

DIGEST OF SANITARY LAW.

  QUESTION.
  SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACHasked the President of the Local Government Board, When the digest of Sanitary Law, stated by him in April 1872 to have been "already put in hand," will be circulated among the sanitary authorities; and why there has been so much delay with regard to a work the publication of which was admitted by himself to be extremely desirable, and was promised soon after the passing of the Public Health Act of last Session?
  MR. STANSFELD,in reply, said, the digest of Sanitary Law which he stated last April to be in preparation, was completed in the autumn and considered by him before he left town; but it appeared to him to be in a shape more suitable for publication on private account than by a Government Department. Another digest had accordingly been prepared, and was already in type, so that it might speedily be distributed among sanitary authorities.

  ENDOWED SCHOOLS ACT.—QUESTION.
  SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACHasked the Vice President of the Privy Council, Whether it is proposed to proceed with any opposed schemes of the Endowed Schools Commissioners before the Select Committee, whose appoint-

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  ment he intends to move, have made their Report on the working of the Endowed Schools Act?
  MR. W. E. FORSTER,in reply, said, that neither the Endowed Schools Commissioners nor the Education Department were of opinion that the appointment of a Select Committee ought to prevent their proceeding with schemes for the reform of endowed schools in fulfilment of the Act. To hang up all opposed schemes would stop the work altogether, for there was scarcely any reform which would not be opposed by some one, especially if he knew that his opposition must be successful.

  THE ADDRESS IN ANSWER TO THE QUEEN'S SPEECH.
  Report of Address brought up, and read.
  MR. BAILLIE COCHRANEsaid, he hoped the House would allow him to make a few observations on the Speech from the Throne, as he had had no opportunity of doing so yesterday. The right hon. Member for Liskeard (Mr. Horsman) complained last night that the Government always objected to discussions on foreign questions as either too early or too late, negotiations being either in progress or having closed, and there was much force in that complaint. It was said by one hon. Gentleman last night that it was of no use crying over spilt milk, and certainly the observation was a just one so far as regarded the milk already spilt. But if by crying one could prevent other milk from being spilt in future, then the crying might be a very useful process. There could be no doubt that a great deal of milk had been spilt over the Treaty of Washington, and we must take care that a great deal more was not spilt over the Central Asian question. The Commissioners appointed by England to assist in drawing up the Treaty of Washington left this country two years ago, and the events that had happened in the time that had since elapsed were not such as to induce us to place much confidence in the foreign policy of Her Majesty's Government. The object of the Commission that then went out was to obtain redress for certain outrages committed in Canada and to protect the Canadian fisheries—the Alabama Claims being only a minor point among the matters to be considered;
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  but what was the result arrived at? The very first thing we did was to give up our whole case by expressing regret for our conduct in the case of the Alabama; then we agree to a new law of nations, which was to have a retrospective effect; and when the questions of the Canadian raids and of the North American fisheries came up, the United States Commissioners shirked them as much as possible, and we were forced in the end to bribe Canada by a guarantee of £2,500,000. What had been the effect of this policy on our Continental relations? Passing by our conduct in the Franco-German War, which was not dignified, and certainly was not generous, Russia was induced by our American policy to demand the abrogation of the Treaty of Paris. Lord Granville at first met this in a very dignified manner, expressing his feelings as an Englishman, which led the Russian Ambassador to think there might be war; but afterwards, starting away—
  "— as if afraid,
  E'en at the sound himself had made,"
  he adopted an attitude which obliged the then Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Otway) to resign his post, he not thinking it consistent with his dignity or his duty to concur in such a course. And now the Central Asian question had arisen, and it was impossible for us not to feel that our conduct on several occasions for the last few years had led to it. The right hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government had compared the conduct of the Russian Government with regard to Khiva with our own conduct in reference to Abyssinia; but there was really no analogy between the two cases. An advance by Russia in the East might not be a casus belli, but it weakened our hold on India, for our Indian Empire was entirely one of prestige, and though a Member of the Government, speaking at the Mansion House some time ago, laughed at the word, it was prestige which enabled us, with a small Army, to rule over hundreds of millions. The permanent occupation of Khiva by Russia would certainly weaken this, and though it could not be supposed that she designed a conquest in the East at our expense, she might divert attention from her policy elsewhere, and oblige us, when an emergency arose, to send such a force to India as to weaken our power in other quarters. He gave Lord Granville credit for good intentions, but

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  had to complain of his lack of determination and energy. He had just given Notice of a Motion for Papers respecting the Suez Canal. He understood, although he had not the Papers on the subject, that soon after last Session, when Nubar Pasha went to Constantinople, the whole of those reforms were all but arranged. The French Government knew the importance of that question, and also that the vast proportion of the ships passing through the Suez Canal belonged to the English flag. Lord Granville, as far as he could understand, was weak enough to say that he could not act without the French Government, although he was supported by all the other Powers; and the whole question was now as far off from an adjustment as ever. As, however, they would have other opportunities of entering upon the subject of foreign policy, he would not discuss these matters at present. He would only say he believed that since that unhappy Treaty of Washington our influence in Europe had been diminished, and that in expressing his entire want of confidence in the courage and determination of Her Majesty's Government in respect to their foreign policy he was expressing the universal feeling of the country.
  MR. PERCY WYNDHAMrose, pursuant to Notice, to call attention to that portion of the Treaty of Washington which related to rights of Fishery as between the subjects of the United States and British North America respectively. He did so for two reasons—first, because it was a branch of the question which was not closed, and one, therefore, to which the attention of Her Majesty's Government might be directed with beneficial results; and, secondly, because that important part of the Treaty referring to the fisheries was made independent of the other Articles in that instrument. One of the first acts of the Government of the United States was to press Her Majesty's Government to use their utmost influence with the Government of the Canadian Dominion to allow the fishermen of the United States a prospective right of fishing in their waters. A proposal for that purpose was accordingly made by Mr. Fish to Sir Edward Thornton, and the President of the United States, on the other hand, was to use his influence with Congress to obtain a drawback in favour of the fishermen of our North American
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  possessions. The subsequent proposals of Mr. Fish unfortunately differed from what he had submitted to Sir Edward Thornton. It was specified that the American fishermen should fish in the waters of the Dominion, Prince Edward's Island, and Newfoundland; but when they came to the question of the drawback the important omission of Newfoundland was found to have been made; so that while the American fishermen were to fish in the richest waters of the Dominion that portion of the Dominion which imported very largely to the United States would not have the benefit of the drawback. That omission, grave as it was, entirely escaped the notice of the Foreign Office, but did not escape the notice of the Governor and the Legislature of Newfoundland. The Governor addressed a despatch, dated July 4, 1871, on the subject to Lord Kimberley, who, as in duty bound, immediately brought the omission before our Foreign Secretary. Lord Granville, he need scarcely say, placed the matter before Mr. Fish in a manner worthy of a British Minister; and Mr. Fish in his reply said that the omission had arisen from inadvertence. In the meantime, however, the United States fishermen fished in the waters of the Dominion, while there was a failure on the part of the American Government to induce Congress to fulfil their part of the bargain. The United States Congress, was, perhaps, a body more disposed to criticise the conduct of their Ministers than the House of Commons was, and he hoped the Under Secretary for the Colonies would be able to inform them whether Congress had yet taken any action on that important point. He wished also to know what was the nature of the evidence respecting the value of the fisheries which was to go before the Commissioners. He thought the only satisfactory evidence would be accurate Returns, which existed, of the fisheries of former years. If hard swearing was to be accepted in deciding on the relative value of the fisheries, he feared that the people of the Dominion were not likely to meet with their just dues. He desired information also whether the Legislature of Newfoundland had given its consent to that portion of the Treaty. By the 32nd Article its assent was expressly required; but probably the Colonial Legislature would be loth, as on former occasions, to stand in the way of what Her Majesty's

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  Government had for their main object—namely, to have done with the business on any terms whatever. Before concluding, he might be allowed to advert to some observations made last night by the right hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government. He understood the right hon. Gentleman to say that there were Counter Claims now under adjudication. He should like to know of what those Counter Claims consisted. The right hon. Gentleman had previously quoted a passage delivered by Lord Derby; but the Counter Claims to which Lord Derby alluded were undoubtedly the Indirect Claims, which never came before the Arbitrators. The right hon. Gentleman denied that the loan to Canada was given as compensation for the loss of the fisheries. It was, however, given as a compensation for the loss and expense to which the Canadians were subjected in repelling the Fenian invasion. Any doubt on that point would be removed by a perusal of a communication from Lord Kimberley to Lord Lisgar. A quotation was then made from the Report of the Committee of the Canadian Privy Council, suggesting that instead of a money payment it was desirable that the Government should propose to Parliament a guarantee for a loan not exceeding £4,000,000, being half the amount intended to be raised for the railway. He did not wish to cast blame on the Government for its action in that matter; but he feared the decision in regard to the fisheries would be adverse to the claims of Canada, and, considering that the United States were even more averse to war than ourselves, he could not think that a wise policy had been adopted. In the first place, we had paid America—a great and rich nation, and the second naval Power in the world—for not keeping a Navy sufficently strong to destroy a contemptible piratical attempt on her commerce. And, further, we had paid our Dependency for wrongs she had received from another Power. He would, in conclusion, simply express a hope that the Under Secretary for the Colonies would be enabled to give him some explanation on the subject to which he had referred.
  MR. RYLANDSsaid, he would be glad to have some assurance from Her Majesty's Government that the Treaty with France should be submitted to the consideration of Parliament before it
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  was ratified. It was extremely important that the representatives of the people of this country should have some voice with regard to that Treaty as the representatives of France had in the National Assembly. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Buckinghamshire had on the previous evening expressed a hope that the interests of the British manufacturer had not been needlessly and recklessly compromised by the Treaty, and he could not suppose that the Government had done anything which would lay their conduct open to that charge. It was not on that account, therefore, that he was anxious the House of Commons should be afforded an opportunity of pronouncing an opinion on the Treaty, but because he looked upon it as a grave question whether the interests of English manufacturers would not be better promoted by having no Treaty at all than by the operation of an instrument, prepared even with the greatest care—as he had no doubt the Treaty in question was—by the Foreign Office. The Foreign Office was, he thought, disposed to do too much rather than too little; and the best thing, he felt satisfied, which could have happened would have been that the French people should have been allowed to feel the effect of their commercial policy, which he believed to be retrograde and injurious to the interests of their country. The tax on the British flag would, he had no doubt, be found to be odious and objectionable by France herself; but be that as it might, he protested against what had been said by the Prime Minister on the previous evening, that the situation of affairs in France rendered it necessary that we should not refuse to enter into the Treaty; for it was a most dangerous policy for any Government to base its action on a regard for the special interests of any particular party in another country. The former Treaty was negotiated with a free trade Emperor, whose hands it strengthened to support a policy of free trade; but the proposed Treaty would only strengthen the hands of a protectionist President, and aid the French in a reactionary policy. With the precedent of the former Treaty, which Lord Palmerston presented for the consideration of Parliament, it would be more satisfactory that, before the Treaty was finally ratified, the House should be able to consider it.
  SIR GEORGE JENKINSONwished to know, in the interest of the taxpayers of this country, whether the £3,500,000 which we were to hand over to America under the Award of the Arbitrators at Geneva was to be paid in one year, or whether the payment was to be spread over a series of years. Yesterday, speeches had been made which, he thought, should have been delivered last Session, when the matter was still unsettled; and he would not join in the chorus of condemnation. He would, however, point out that we had already apologized for wrong we had never committed, and bribed Canada to concur in the proceeding; and that we were about to pay £3,500,000 for damages we had never caused. The Chancellor of the Exchequer told the people of Glasgow that we were to pay that sum to put the Americans in a good humour; but the effect was problematical. Only the most lively imaginations could conceive that we should derive any advantage from the transaction, because, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated, the new Rules were not to be binding on anybody. He saw by a telegram from New York a few days ago that the amount which we were called upon to pay would exceed by £2,500,000 the value of the property destroyed, and it was recommended that after all just claims had been satisfied the balance should be paid into the United States Treasury. That, he supposed, must be regarded as an indirect way of paying the Indirect Claims, and as the Chancellor of the Exchequer had told the deputation who had waited on him a short time since on the subject of the malt tax that he could give them no relief because he had no surplus, he thought he was justified in asking him whether all surplus which the Revenue Returns showed he would possess was to be taken in the present year out of the pockets of the ratepayers to satisfy the American claim? If so, he, for one, felt bound, on behalf of his constituents, to protest against the gross injustice of such a course. The right hon. Gentleman told his audience at Glasgow that he had taken off £9,000,000 of taxation since his accession to office in 1868. The right hon. Gentleman, however, appeared to have forgotten that in the same period the Excise had increased by £5,000,000, leaving a balance in favour of the taxpayers of
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  only £4,000,000, and that of that £5,000,000 a large part was obtained from the malt tax, an impost which, although it had not arrived at the dignity of being mentioned in Queen's Speeches, pressed most hardly upon a very deserving class of Her Majesty's subjects. He trusted that in preparing his Estimates for next year the Chancellor of the Exchequer would give some consideration to the question of the reduction of this tax. They were always told, when they made these applications, that they were too soon or too late; and therefore he took the opportunity of mentioning the matter now. Turning to another point, he had seen in the late Message of the President of the United States a proposal for the settlement of the Alaska boundaries by means of a joint Commission to be appointed by the American and British Governments; but, in view of recent events, it would, in his opinion, conduce far more to the dignity of this country and to economy were we at once to concede any boundary which the Americans might choose to ask rather than consent to the appointment of any such Commission.
  MR. LAINGsaid, he thought the tone of the criticism on the result of the Geneva Arbitration had been so generally hostile that it was advisable some brief expression of an opposite opinion, which he believed was very prevalent throughout the country, should be laid before the House. To a large extent he was at one with the hon. Members opposite. He agreed with them that new Rules of considerable importance had been introduced into the old international law; that the decision of the Geneva Arbitrators had screwed up those Rules to a higher point than Her Majesty's Government had contemplated when they acceded to them; that those Rules could not be regarded as forming a mere dead letter, and that they constituted a new and important chapter in the history of international law. At this point, however, he parted company from hon. Members opposite. He thought that the operation of the new principle which had thus been introduced into the old system of international law would be a benefit, and not a misfortune, to this country. Having due regard to the march of events, it was not surprising that international law as well as other matters of importance should require

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  modification and amendment in order to suit it to the changing circumstances of the world. The most important changes had occurred in consequence of an altered state of feeling on the part of civilized Europe with regard to war, and of an altered state of facts resulting from the enormous increase of commerce. The restrictions upon neutrals in time of war which formerly existed had become such an intolerable nuisance that they could no longer be put up with, and, consequently, it was laid down by the Treaty of Paris that a neutral flag should cover all goods, by which the rights of neutrals were greatly enlarged. But while it was imperative that the rights of neutrals should be thus enlarged, it was equally just that their obligations should also be enlarged. The feeling adverse to war upon principle, the conscientious dislike to go to war except as a last extremity, which originated in this country, had now spread over all civilized nations, and had compelled an alteration being made in public law. Endeavours were being made to limit the operation of war when it unfortunately arose, and to conduct it as humanely as possible. The general opinion was now entertained that neutral nations had no right to furnish belligerents with munitions of war, or to allow their ports to be made the basis of expeditions to be directed against a friendly Power. It was felt that such conduct was like that of a man who sold loaded pistols to two of his friends in order to enable thorn to fight a duel. Under these circumstances, he did not blame Her Majesty's Government or their predecessors in Office for having endeavoured to settle our dispute with a foreign country by arbitration, instead of going to war. Neither did he blame them for admitting the principles involved in the three new Rules. The difficulty we found ourselves in with respect to the Geneva Arbitration was occasioned, not by our having at length yielded to what was right, but by our having taken up a false position in which we eventually found ourselves outflanked—by resisting just demands; and it was to be hoped that we should learn, from the lesson we have received, the impolicy of setting down our foot as a nation in a position which we were afterwards unable to maintain. The position we had taken up, although not altogether untenable as judged by the old international law,
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  was one that the conscience of the country could not reconcile itself to, as being unjust as between nation and nation, and, consequently, we determined to submit the dispute to arbitration. Viewed in another light, however, it would be found that the principles which had been thus laid down would prove in the end most beneficial to this country. It was of the utmost importance to us, who had the largest commerce in the world and had ships in every portion of the globe, that our vessels should not be liable to be preyed upon by Alabamas fitted out in the ports of neutral nations, or permitted to coal there. He was satisfied that the establishment of a principle that would prevent the destruction of our commerce in the event of our being involved in war with any other nation was well worth the money we were called upon to pay for it. Her Majesty's Government, therefore, instead of being ashamed of the part they had taken in this matter, should rather feel that they had succeeded in laying down a principle of the greatest future benefit to this country, and should determine to proceed in the path on which they had already advanced so far. As to the French Treaty of Commerce, he did not wish to refer to it in any spirit of preconceived hostility. On the contrary, he was a warm advocate of the original Treaty. He thought it probable that when all the facts and arguments were fairly placed before the House he should incline to the opinion that, on the whole, the Government were right in concluding that Treaty. At the same time, seeing the opposition it had encountered from the Manchester Chamber of Commerce and from many eminent men in France, he thought that before the House took any responsibility in the matter they ought to have a full and fair discussion of the measure before it was finally passed. Another point to which he wished to refer was the payment of the Alabama Claims. In Her Majesty's Speech it was said that that payment would be made in "due course." In those two little words, "due course," a very large question was involved; because if in due course meant within the present financial year, the surplus of the financial year terminating in March next would be sufficient to pay that indemnity or thereabouts, and the surplus of the ensuing financial year would, in

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  the ordinary course of things, be applicable to the remission of taxation. If, on the other hand, "due course" meant not till after March and the Budget had been produced, then, no doubt, the Chancellor of the Exchequer might be in a position to say—" Oh the surplus of 1872–3 is gone; it was appropriated by an existing Act of Parliament to the reduction of the National Debt; the surplus of 1873–4 is wanted for the Alabama Indemnity, and, therefore, I have no surplus, and. the deputations that assail me at Downing Street need not trouble me about it." Now, that course might be one which might save the Chancellor of the Exchequer considerable embarrassment; but he (Mr. Laing) felt with the hon. Member for Wiltshire that it was one which would not be very satisfactory to the country. If the ordinary taxation of the country for two successive years yielded a surplus of more than £3,000,000, the country expected, and had a right to expect, to receive some portion of it in the way of a remission of taxation. At any rate, without entering into that subject, he maintained that it was a fair question for deliberate discussion in the House whether, under these circumstances, the country should or should not enjoy some benefit by a remission of taxation. That was a matter which ought not in any way to be prejudged or precluded by the accident of the Bill for the payment of this cost being brought forward before Easter or after Easter. He should be glad, therefore, if any Member of Her Majesty's Government before the close of this debate would state what was meant by these words "due course," and would give some assurance that nothing should be done which would in any way prejudge the matter, or prevent the House from coming to a deliberate conclusion as to whether the whole of the surplus of this year should be applied in reducing the National Debt, and the surplus of the coming year should be appropriated to the payment of the Alabama Claims, or should be dealt with in the ordinary way for the benefit of the taxpayers.
  MR. CORRANCEadverted to the remarks which had been addressed to the House by the right hon. Member for North Devon (Sir Stafford Northcote), which could not be passed over in silence, and he (Mr. Corrance) did not
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  think that those sentiments were shared in by that side of the House. In the first place, they had the question of the Fenian raids entirely untouched; then the important question of the navigation of the St. Lawrence had been deliberately conceded; and there was also the question of the fisheries. What was the truth with reference to the indemnity that was to be awarded? He should wish to hear from the Government what provision and arrangements they had made upon this part of the question. Much dissatisfaction had been caused by the Treaty, and he had papers with him, though he did not wish to weary the House with them, which would show that by many the Treaty and all its provisions were utterly repudiated. Very much displeasure existed in Canada upon this question, and it was suggested that Government was obliged to purchase silence by a State grant. They had been told that this pecuniary compensation was a thing in itself insignificant. That he admitted, and that was the smallest part of the matter. But the question of the feelings of the people of Canada raised the most important issue that could come before them. What was the loss of a sum of £3,000,000 sterling compared with the loss of the affections of such a population? He thought that seeing how Canada had so far suffered, one generous expression might have been given to her in the Royal Speech. Considering the painful nature of some of the documents that had been placed before them, he thought that such sacrifices would justify something more than the cold acknowledgment which had been made. What he complained of was, that Her Majesty's Government, though conscious of the blunder, had not sought to rectify it. The Canadians had had great cause of complaint, and had not deserved the cold reception they had received, and certainly not the almost contemptuous terms in which they had been spoken of. The time might come when Canada and this country might part; but it should be remembered it could be a matter of no inconsiderable regret that she should part on terms which made her feel the humiliation of her position, and placed her in a controversial attitude towards this country.
  MR. KNATCHBULL-HUGESSENsaid, he could not remain silent after

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  the special references which had been made to him, though he felt it to be inconvenient that such matters as the details of a Treaty should be discussed without the possibility of any practical result, and when no definite Motion was before the House. Such a discussion was the more inexpedient pending the legislative action of the Congress of America, which was necessary to give validity to the Treaty, and also when the Legislature of Newfoundland were about to consider the provisions of the Treaty as far as they applied to that island. He thought that a debate in this House upon questions which were then pending would be of no advantage. But he could not help saying with reference to the allusions made to-night, and also to the speech of the noble Lord (Viscount Bury) on the previous night, that there was no fallacy so great and no mistake so unfortunate as that conveyed in the statement that Canada had been or would be a sufferer by the Treaty of Washington. The interests of Canada had not been sacrificed, and Canada would be more and more prosperous through the working of the Treaty. If it were necessary, he could quote valuable collateral evidence on this subject. Only the other day he read in a Canadian newspaper a report copied from The Yew York Herald of considerable importance, and made by a correspondent sent especially to Canada on behalf of that newspaper in order to make himself acquainted with the wishes and feelings of the Canadian people as regards annexation to the United States. This correspondent reported that the great mass of the people of Canada were exceedingly hostile to annexation, and desired to retain their connection with Great Britain. He said, further, with regard to the refusal of the United States to renew the Reciprocity Treaty, that, while intended as a great blow to Canada, the United States really made a mistake in not renewing the Treaty. The House would remember that the Government were taunted with not having been able to induce the United States Government to renew it. But, according to this gentleman, the Canadian manufactures, which were at a standstill during the existence of this Treaty, began to increase in importance as soon as it ceased to exist, and the resources of the Domi-
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  nion were thereby greatly developed; and so, with regard to the present Treaty, he believed it would be found that the more you freed a country like Canada from restraint, the more she was encouraged to develop her own resources, the better and stronger her position would be. Prizing the affections of the people of Canada very highly, he was not afraid of losing them; and he believed the future of Canada would be so great, that the greatness of this country would be increased by the continuation of the intimate connection between them. As to the Canadian fishermen, it would be easy to show that they would always have a great advantage over American fishermen, and that if the American fishermen came in any number upon the Canadian coast, a trade would spring up there which would add materially to the prosperity of that country. On this point it was well to ask what was the opinion of the Canadians themselves. He did not rely only on the fact that in the late Parliament the Canadian Government had an immense majority in ratifying the provisions of the Treaty; but he might also point to the fact that in America the opposition to this part of the Treaty came from the American fishery States, while a majority of the representatives of the fishery States of Canada were in favour of the Treaty, and at the recent general elections the supporters of the Treaty carried all before them in those States. The testimony of impartial witnesses coincided with his belief that, so far from Canadian interests being sacrificed, the fishery provisions and other parts of the Treaty promised to be of great benefit to Canada. Upon a more fitting opportunity he should be prepared, if necessary, to go at greater length into these matters. He would not now touch upon the loan, because it was enough that a thing should be well done once without occupying valuable time by doing it two or three times over. On a future occasion it would be necessary to ask for the sanction of Parliament to the Imperial guarantee of the loan, and then there would be ample opportunity for hon. Gentlemen to call the loan a bribe or anything else. He would then be ready to show that this was no bribe, and that it was a wise and patriotic act on the part of Great Britain to guarantee such a loan for the purpose of developing the re-

  169
  sources of Canada. Hon. Gentlemen talked on Canadian subjects with some inconsistency. When they spoke in the provinces upon the general subject, they warmly advocated the Canadian cornicetion—in which he entirely agreed with them—and deprecated any act which might appear to deal with Canada otherwise than as part and parcel of the British Empire, with an identity of sentiment and of interest. But as soon as special questions like the present arose, they were too apt to speak of Canada under quite another aspect, as if a policy of a separate character was necessary for her interests, and as if those interests were to be considered quite apart from the general interests of the United Empire.
  SIR CHARLES ADDERLEYfully endorsed what had fallen from the hon. Gentleman who had just spoken, and firmly believed that the provisions of the Treaty concerning Canada were most favourable to Canada, and were far better than the Canadians could have gained for themselves had theirs been an independent nation. Their own best statesmen acknowledged this. He felt sure their interests in the negotiation were as much cared for as our own, and he believed they had been cared for with more success. The liabilities which this country had drawn upon itself as a neutral nation were formidable. The decision implied that in future we should be liable not only for want of due diligence on the part of our officers at home, but on the part of officers in British colonies all over the world, although they were beyond our control, and although those colonies had no share in our debates, and were only connected with us by the common tie of loyalty to the Crown. But, passing from the American debate, the subject to which he was going to draw the attention of the right hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government on Monday was one which he missed from Her Majesty's Speech; he meant the promised consolidation of the sanitary laws. He had understood the right hon. Gentleman to have almost pledged himself to complete what had been done on the subject during this Session. Last year an Act was passed which constituted local sanitary authorities all over this kingdom, and the Session before an Act was passed which constituted and consolidated a central
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  authority in the metropolis. Having made this staff provision, the Government must either leave the machinery to rust and become useless, or enable the country to make use of it. It would be most unfortunate if at the very outset of sanitary reform the local government of this country should be placed in this odious and unpopular position of complete appointments and salaries for work still left impracticable. The subject had been before the House, for two Sessions, in the form of a Bill which offered very little new legislation, but consolidated the existing provisions scattered about in various Acts, so confused as to be wholly inoperative. By collecting the existing law on the powers and duties of local authorities into one Bill, the House would enable the authorities which it constituted to enforce the important sanitary laws now upon the Statute Book. He should like to ask the Government whether the omission of this subject from the Queen's Speech was an admission that they were not prepared to complete the legislation of 1871, and of last year? The members of the Sanitary Commission concurred with him in the necessity, in that case, of reintroducing the Bill which had been for two Sessions already before the House. That measure had somewhat alarmed the House by its magnitude; but it had been much reduced by the Act of last Session, and by the Act of 1871, which two Acts had dealt with at least a third of the whole subject and he hoped that the Government would encourage the Sanitary Commissioners by some assurance that they would, if unable to deal with the remaining complement of the subject themselves, assist them to pass the measure recommended by them during the present Session.
  SIR CHARLES WINGFIELD,in reference to the advance of Russia in Central Asia, concurred with the hon. Member for Brighton (Mr. Fawcett), in a speech to his constituents the other day, that if the only danger to our Indian Empire was the proximity of Russia, we might make our minds very easy. Russia had ample cause to seek redress for the manifold outrages committed upon Russian subjects in Khiva. Russia had disclaimed any intention to annex Khiva; but in the interest of humanity he should wish to see that country brought under her sway. Anyone who

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  read Mr. Vambéry's work on the political and social system of the Khanates would wish Russia every success in reducing this degraded population to order and civilization. It had been certain for years past that all these three Khanates would be absorbed at some time or other into the Russian dominions. He hoped that there would now be an end of these rumours of differences with Russia in regard to Central Asia, which had so suddenly excited the public mind, and that the conciliatory disposition shown by Russia would be appreciated.
  SIR MASSEY LOPESthanked the Government for the announcement of their intention to deal with the anomalies and grievances of local taxation; but he wished to impress upon the right hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government the necessity of enabling the House at the earliest possible opportunity to see the Government measure. The subject was one of so difficult and complicated a character, that the country would require as much time as possible to consider the details before they were discussed in that House. He ventured to hope that the Bill would be so framed that hon. Members on both sides of the House would deal with it as they did with the Sanitary Bill of last year, totally free from all party and political considerations. He also hoped that the object of the Bill would not be to sow dissension between different classes and interests, between landlord and tenant, or between town and country; but that all parties would be able to accept the Government measure as a fair and impartial recognition of their mutual grievances. In such a case he could promise the right hon. Gentleman that hon. Members on both sides of the House who were interested in this subject would do their utmost to give him and the Government every possible assistance in bringing this difficult subject to a speedy and satisfactory and successful termination.
  MR. R. N. FOWLERwished to say with regard to the reduction of our Debt, that it would be wrong if in a year of exceptional prosperity no effort were made to reduce the National Debt.
  MR. F. S. POWELLsaid, he hoped the Government would pass a Consolidation Bill, such as had been recommended by the Sanitary Commission,
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  with any improvements which might be suggested by the Government.
  MR. GLADSTONE: In answer to my right hon. Friend (Sir Charles Adderley), I am unable to say, on the part of my right hon. Friend (Mr. Stansfeld) and the Government, that it will be in our power to introduce this Session a digest or consolidation of the sanitary laws. My right hon. Friend (Mr. Stansfeld) has gravely considered the subject, and he has arrived, with regret, at the conclusion that the moment has not yet come when he could deal with this subject with the prospect of success, and in a manner satisfactory to himself. If my right hon. Friend opposite (Sir Charles Adderley) thinks it his duty again to submit his Bill to the House, my right hon. Friend, on the part of the Government, has every disposition to regard it with a favourable eye, knowing, as they do, the respect and sympathy due to the views and efforts of the right hon. Gentleman and to his knowledge of the subject. The hon. Baronet the Member for South Devon (Sir Massey Lopes) has expressed a hope—which amounts to putting a question on the subject—that the measures or proposals referred to in the Speech from the Throne in regard to local taxation will be shortly introduced; and the hon. Baronet has laid down the principle and intimated wishes on his own part and on the part of others with whom he communicates, which principles I accept in the spirit in which they were expressed, and with which principles I entirely concur. The object of the Government ought to be to do justice to each class and each interest; but nothing could be more blameworthy than an endeavour to set them one against the other. The hon. Baronet has intimated a hope that the measure of the Government will be laid on the Table at an early period, and I quite agree with him that it would be right that ample time should be given after such measure has been introduced, and before it is brought on for discussion, in order to enable hon. Members to state their opinions and take a definitive course. But last night the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Buckinghamshire (Mr. Disraeli) reminded me that I had given opinions in this House favourable to a very homely manner of transacting business, which appeared to receive the approbation of the right hon.

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  Gentleman—namely, that it is the duty of the Government, with respect to its more important and critical measures, which make the greatest demands upon its attention and upon the attention of the House, to do one thing at a time. All the expedition that we can give to the measure respecting local taxation, compatible with that ride, will be given to it; but I am quite satisfied that when we have other very great measures not yet introduced, it would not in the slightest degree tend to forward the object the hon. Baronet has in view were we to produce our measure with respect to local taxation. The rule of one thing—that is, one thing of a first-class magnitude—at a time, a very long experience in this House has convinced me is a rule absolutely vital to anything like a satisfactory transaction of the business of the Government in this House, and to that rule in this year, as in former years, we intend, as far as possible, to adhere. One word I would say with reference to what fell from my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington (Mr. Rylands), who expressed a desire that the House should be made acquainted, before its ratification, with the Commercial Treaty signed between this country and France. Now, it so happens that in the course of business the House will have an opportunity of judging of that Treaty at the earliest moment; for it has been already laid upon the Table, and it cannot be immediately ratified, because those provisions which absolutely require the sanction of the National Assembly in France are under the consideration of that Assembly, and some days must elapse—though, I believe, no long time—before the judgment of the Assembly is given. I trust the Treaty will be in the hands of my hon. Friend before the National Assembly will have had time to deal with it. One observation which fell from my hon. Friend it is my duty to notice. He appeared to think that when the gracious Speech from the Throne referred to special circumstances in the condition of France as requiring an equitable regard on the part of the Government of this country, we referred to some connection with the existing Government of France, and were disposed to draw some distinction between that Government and any other which the French nation might choose to select. I can assure my hon. Friend that in ad-
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  vising the use of that language we had not the smallest intention to convey any such meaning. In my opinion, the grossest of all errors which the Government or the Legislature of this country could commit would be committed if we were to presume to draw any distinction in the spirit and mode of our proceedings between one kind of Government in France and another kind of Government. What we have to do is to recognize the Government which the people of France have chosen to establish for themselves, and to deal with the Government so established in a spirit of national friendship and good-will. That, I assure my hon. Friend, is the principle on which we have proceeded; and when existing circumstances are spoken of as requiring at our hands an equitable regard, those existing circumstances which it would not be well to develop in a Speech from the Throne are entirely connected with the financial condition of France, and have no political meaning whatever.
  MR. NEWDEGATEinquired whether the contents of the Treaty would come before the House in a financial form?
  MR. GLADSTONE: No.
  Address agreed to:—To be presented by Privy Councillors.

POLLING DISTRICTS (IRELAND) BILL.

  LEAVE. FIRST READING.
  THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON,in moving for leave to bring in a Bill to make special provisions in relation to the constitution of certain Polling Districts in Ireland, said, that in the Ballot Act passed last year provision was made for greatly extending the number of polling districts and polling places in Ireland, as well as in England. That Act provided that before a certain day the chairman and magistrates of each county should make provision for dividing the county into polling districts, and the petty sessional district was, as far as practicable, to be the polling district. The magistrates were, however, allowed, if they deemed it expedient, to appoint additional polling places, and to attach districts to such polling places. The orders made by the magistrates were to be sent to the Clerk of the Privy Council, and, previous to their confirmation, no-

  175
  tice was to be given in one newspaper at least circulating within the county, and subsequently they were to be printed in The Dublin Gazette. In order to assist the chairman and magistrates to discharge their duty, information was furnished to them by the Commissioners of Valuation. In 18 counties the Report of the Commissioners was adopted unaltered, or with very slight alterations; in 13 counties the magistrates recommended some additional polling places, and in one county several considerable alterations in the boundaries of the districts were proposed. It was found, however, that, in consequence of the minute subdivision of Ireland into small districts called town-lands, the publication of the draught orders in the newspapers and The Gazette would be extremely expensive. It was estimated that the publication of them in the local newspapers and in The Gazette would cost no less than £12,000. Moreover, it appeared that there was no necessity for all the precautions provided by the Act. There was no reason to suppose that the magistrates had been actuated by improper motives, for nearly all the orders made had been made on recommendations issued from the Government Department, and framed as nearly as possible in conformity with the directions of the Act. In the cases where they had been departed from the object was merely to increase the number of polling places, and in all cases general satisfaction had been given. The Special Sessions at which the work had been done had been specially summoned for the purpose, and ample notice had been given to all concerned, so that anyone who objected to the proceedings of the magistrates could state his case before them. There was no reason why the delay and expense consequent on all these proceedings should be incurred, and the object of this Bill was to provide that the Lord Lieutenant and Privy Council should have the power to confirm or alter, as the case might be, any orders issued by the magistrates. It might be asked why the Bill did not simply enable the magistrates to confirm, and that was substantially what it did in the first clause; but a second was necessary to meet cases in which alterations might be expedient. It was desirable that the Bill should pass as speedily as possible, so as to come into operation in case of any elec-
  176
  tion; and he therefore proposed to take the second reading on Thursday next.
  Motion agreed to.
  Bill to make special provisions in relation to the constitution of certain Polling Districts in Ireland, ordered to be brought in by The Marquess of HARTINGTON and Mr. Secretary BRUCE.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 1.]

BURIALS BILL.

  RESOLUTION. FIRST READING.
  Considered in Committee.
  (In the Committee.)
  MR. OSBORNE MORGAN,in moving that the Chairman be directed to move the House, that leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the Burial Laws, said, that the Bill was substantially the same measure as that which was before the House three successive Sessions, with one very important alteration. It would be in the recollection of the Committee that one argument advanced against this Bill was that the services authorized might serve as occasions of political demonstrations. In order to obviate that danger, he last year agreed to accept an Amendment of the hon. Member for West Kent (Mr. J. G. Talbot), which provided that the prescribed ritual should consist only of hymns, prayers, and portions of Scripture. That Amendment he had embodied in the present measure, and even if it did not disarm the hostility of the antagonists of the measure, it must cut away from under their feet the principal ground upon which opposition had been at least ostensibly rested.
  MR. BERESFORD HOPE,whilst thanking the hon. and learned Member for the concession, warned him that he must not take it for granted that the proposition would be accepted as a compromise. This was a Bill that must be opposed.
  Motion agreed to.
  Resolved, That the Chairman be directed to move the House, that leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the Burial Laws.
  Resolution reported: — Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. OSBORNE DIORGAN, Lord EDMOND FITZMAURICE, Mr. HADFIELD, and M.F. M'ARTHUR.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 9.]

UNIVERSITY TESTS (DUBLIN) BILL.

  RESOLUTION. FIRST READING.
  Considered in Committee.
  (In the Committee.)
  MR. FAWCETT,in moving that the Chairman be directed to move the House, that leave be given to bring in a Bill to abolish Tests and alter the Constitution of the Governing Body in Trinity College and the University of Dublin, wished to explain why he proposed to introduce a measure on a subject on which the Government had already given Notice that they intended to legislate. If the Bill were now brought forward for the first time, and it were simply a measure of his own or of those Members whose names appeared on the back of it, no doubt they might appear open to the charge of presumption, but the Bill was really not so much their Bill as the Bill of the House; because its principle had on the second reading been affirmed by an exceptionally large majority. He wished it, however, to be distinctly understood that he had no desire to embarrass the Government; his only object was to obtain as early as possible a settlement of this question, which was urgently demanded. If the Government measure to be introduced on Thursday next should be approved by the country, no one would more gladly withdraw his Bill than he should; if, on the other hand, the measure introduced should not be approved by the country, then, as his Bill would be before the House, and having been already accepted by a large majority, they would, even if the measure of the Government proved unsatisfactory, still have the opportunity of legislating on the subject, and thus give peace and repose to a College and University which had suffered severely from the threatened disturbance hanging over them for many years. To show that he had no wish to impede the Government, he should fix the second reading of his Bill on a day before which it would be known what reception had been given to the Government measure. He should not fix the second reading before the 12th of March. Under these circumstances, he hoped he should be acquitted of presumption in seeking to introduce a Bill on a subject on which the Government had already given Notice of their
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  intention to legislate, and that no opposition would be given to the introduction of his Bill.
  Motion agreed to.
  Resolved, That the Chairman be directed to move the House, that leave be given to bring in a Bill to abolish Tests and alter the Constitution of the Governing Body in Trinity College and the University of Dublin.
  Resolution reported:—Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. FAWCETT, Dr. LYON PLAY-FAIR, and Mr. PLUNKET.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 12]

GREY COAT HOSPITAL, WESTMINSTER—ENDOWED SCHOOL COMMISSIONERS SCHEME.

  MOTION FOR AN ADDRESS.
  MR. W. H. SMITH,in rising to move the Address of which he had given Notice, said, that the Grey Coat Hospital now provided for twice as many boys as girls; but under the new scheme the endowment was applied solely to the education of girls, while it was intended to provide for the boys in the scheme for Emanuel Hospital. But this scheme had not yet received the sanction of Parliament, and might never do so, in which case the boys would be left unprovided for. He therefore desired that the two schemes should be considered together.
  Motion made, and Question proposed,
  "That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that She will be graciously pleased to suspend the approbation of the Scheme of the Endowed School Commissioners for the management of Grey Coat Hospital in the city of Westminster, until the Schemes now under consideration for the management of the other Hospitals in Westminster are presented for Her Majesty's approval." — (Mr. William Henry Smith.)
  MR. W. E. FORSTERtrusted the hon. Member would not persevere with his Motion, because if the House should assent to it it would have the effect of rendering all the labour incurred in regard to the reform of the Institution referred to of no avail, and the whole process in respect to a scheme for its management would have to be gone over again. After several interviews between the Education Department of the Government and the Governors of the Institution that scheme was finally agreed to. It was true that the scheme made special provision for girls, a provision which was much wanted; but the interests of the boys now at the school

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  would not suffer in the end, and the object of giving them a free education would be kept steadily in view.
  MR. J. G. TALBOTsaid, he thought the hon. Member for Westminster had a strong case for asking the House, not to throw over the scheme, but to delay it, because the scheme for Grey Coat Hospital ran on all fours with the scheme for Emanuel Hospital. He did not at all repudiate the bargain which had been made with the Grey Coat Governors last year; but he asked for delay, in order that it might be seen whether the whole Westminster scheme, of which this was only a part, would receive the approval of Parliament. If, as had been suggested by his hon. Friend, and as was not improbable, the Emanuel scheme was not likely to receive the sanction of Parliament, half the entire scheme would be dropped, and provision would have been made for the girls, while the boys would be nowhere. The Endowed School Commissioners were now upon their trial, and if there was any case which could be a test case, it was that of Emanuel Hospital. This case of the Grey Coat Hospital was intimately bound up with that, and it was rather hard to call upon the trustees to give up half of the interests they were bound to promote in order to furnish a lever for the scheme of the Emanuel Hospital.
  MR. ALDERMAN W. LAWRENCEcondemned the course pursued by the Government with reference to these schemes. Bills and Motions generally fell to the ground at the end of the Session, and he saw no reason why that rule should not apply to the Grey Coat Hospital scheme. The time expired to-day for the scheme to come into effect without any opportunity having been afforded of discussing it in Parliament.
  Question put.
  The House divided:—Ayes 22; Noes 64: Majority 42.

  PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.
  Committee of Public Accounts nominated: Mr. BAXTER, Mr. SCLATER-BOOTH, Mr. SEELY, Mr. LIDDELL, Mr. ALGERNON EGERTON, GOLDNEY, Mr. CANDLISH, Mr. CRAWFORD, Mr. RYLANDS, Lord EUSTACE CECIL, and Mr. O'REILLY.

  EAST INDIA (FINANCE).
  Select Committee appointed, "to inquire into the Finance and Financial Administration of India."—(Mr. Ayrton.)
  And, on February 10, Committee nominated as follows:—Mr. AYRTON, Mr. STEPHEN CAVE, Mr. CRAWFORD, Mr. BARING, Mr. FAWCETT, Mr. BECKETT DENISON, Sir CHARLES WING-FIELD, Mr. EASTWICX, Mr. DICKINSON, Mr. BOURKE, Mr. CANDLISH, Sir JAMES ELPHINSTONE, Mr. LYTTELTON, Mr. BIRLEY, Sir DAVID WEDDERBURN, Mr. BEACH, Sir THOMAS BAZLEY, Mr. HERMON, Mr. MTLURE, Mr. CROSS, Mr. JOHN BENJAMIN SMITH, Mr. GRANT DUFF, Mr. ROBERT FOWLER, Mr. HAVILAND-BUICKE, Mr. CHARLES DALRYMPLE, Sir STAFFORD NORTH-COTE, Lord EDMOND FITZMAVRICE, Mr. BAILLIE COCHRANE, and Sir GEORGE BALFOUR:—Power to send for persons, papers, and records; Seven to be the quorum.

  IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT.
  Select Committee appointed, "to inquire into the subject of Imprisonment for Debt by County Court Judges."—(Mr. Bass.)
  And, on February 14, Committee nominated as follows:—Mr. SPENCER WALPOLE, Mr. AYRTON, Mr. LOPES, Mr. JAMES, Mr. FIELDEN, Mr. LOCKE, Mr. CORBETT, Mr. STAPLETON, Mr. ROBERT FOWLER, Mr. M'MAHON, Mr. SALT, Mr. ANDERSON, Mr. TORR, Mr. CHADWICK, and Mr. Bass:—Power to send for persons, papers, and records; Five to be the quorum.
  And, on February 18, Mr. LOCKE discharged; Mr. NORWOOD, Mr. CROSS, Mr. CAWLEY, Mr. BAINES, and Mr. RICHARD SHAW added.

  LOCAL GOVERNMENT SUPPLEMENTAL BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. HIBBERT, Bill to confirm certain Provisional Orders of the Local Government Board relating to the districts of Bishop Auckland, Bristol, Cardiff, Ealing, Idle, Lincoln, Newport in Monmouthshire, Warrington, Wigan, and Wrington, ordered to be brought in by Mr. HIBBERT and Mr. STANSFELD.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 2.]

  HOUSEHOLD FRANCHISE (COUNTIES) BILL
  On Motion of Mr. TREVELYAN, Bill to extend the Household Franchise to Counties, and otherwise to amend the Laws relating to the Representation of the People in England and Wales, ordered to be brought in by Mr. TREVELYAN, Sir JOHN TRELAWNY, Sir ROBERT ANSTRUTHER, Mr. OSBORNE MORGAN, and Mr. ANDREW JOHNSTON.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 3.]

  POOR LAW (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. CRALIFURD, Bill for the further amendment and better administration of the Laws relating to the Relief of the Poor in Scotland, ordered to be brought in by Mr. CRAUFURD, Sir DAVID WEDDERBURN, and Mr. MILLER.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 4.]

  ANCIENT MONUMENTS BILL.
  On Motion of Sir JOHN LUBBOCK, Bill to provide for the preservation of Ancient National Monuments, ordered to be brought in by Sir JOHN LUBBOCK, Mr. BERESFORD HOPE, Mr. BOUVERIE, Mr. OSBORNE MORGAN, and Mr. PLUNKET.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 5.]

  MUNICIPAL OFFICERS SUPERANNUATION BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. RATHBONE, Bill to enable the Mayor, Aldermen, and Burgesses of Municipal Boroughs in England and Wales to grant Superannuation Allowances to their officers, clerks, and servants, ordered to be brought in by Mr. RATHBONE, Mr. MASSEY, Mr. BIRLEY, Mr. DIXON, Mr. MORLEY, and. Mr. CROSS.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 6.]

  MARRIED WOMEN'S PROPERTY ACT (1870) AMENDMENT BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. HINDE PALMER, Bill to amend "The Married Women's Property Act, 1870," ordered to be brought in by Mr. HINDE PALMER, Mr. AMPHLETT, Mr. OSBORNE MORGAN, and Mr. JACOB BRIGHT.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 7.]

  AGRICULTURAL CHILDREN BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. CLARE READ, Bill to regulate the employment of Children in Agriculture, ordered to be brought in by Mr. CLARE READ, Mr. PELL, Mr. AKROYD, Mr. KAY-SHUTTLEWORTH, and Mr. KENNAWAY.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 8.]

  SEDUCTION LAWS AMENDMENT BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. CHARLEY, Bill to amend the Laws relating to Seduction, ordered to be brought in by Mr. CHARLEY, Mr. EYKYN, Mr. MUNDELLA, and Mr. WHITWELL.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 10.]

  HABITUAL DRUNKARDS BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. DONALD DALRYMPLE, Bill for the better care and management of Habitual Drunkards, ordered to be brought in by Mr. DONALD DALRYMPLE, Mr. GORDON, Mr. AKROYD, Mr. CLARE READ, Mr. MILLER, and Mr. DOWNING.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 11.]

  PRISON MINISTERS ACT (1863) AMENDMENT BILL.
  On Motion of Sir JOHN TRELAWNY, Bill to amend the Prison Ministers Act, 1863, ordered to be brought in by Sir JOHN TRELAWNY, Mr. OSBORNE, and Lord ARTHUR RUSSELL.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 13.]

  PERMISSIVE PROHIBITORY LIQUOR BILL.
  Acts read; considered in Committee.
  (In the Committee.)
  Resolved, That the Chairman be directed to move the House, that leave be given to bring in
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  a Bill to enable owners and occupiers of property in certain districts to prevent the common sale of Intoxicating Liquors within such districts.
  Resolution reported:—Bill ordered to be brought in by Sir WILFRID LAWSON, Lord CLAUD HAMILTON, Sir THOMAS BAZLEY, Mr. DOWNING, Mr. RICHARD, Mr. MILLER, and Mr. DALWAY.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 14.]

  MARRIAGE WITH A DECEASED WIFE'S SISTER BILL.
  On Motion of Sir THOMAS CHAMBERS, Bill to legalise Marriage with a Deceased Wife's Sister, ordered to be brought in by Sir THOMAS CHAMBERS, Mr. MORLEY, and Mr. LEITH.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 15.]

  LOCAL TAXATION (ACCOUNTS) BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. PELL, Bill to provide for the annual presentation to Parliament of an account of all sums received and expended by all local authorities raising or expending Rates in England and Wales, ordered to be brought in by Mr. PELL, Sir MASSEY LOPES, Mr. CLARE READ, Mr. ROWLAND WINN, and Viscount MAHON.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 16.]

  WOMEN'S DISABILITIES BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. JACOB BRIGHT, Bill to remove the Electoral Disabilities of Women, ordered to be brought in by Mr. JACOB BRIGHT, Dr. LYON PLAYFAIR, and Mr. EASTWICK.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 17.]

  CANONRIES BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. BERESFORD HOPE, Bill to amend the Act of the third and fourth years of Victoria, chapter one hundred and thirteen, for the regulation of Cathedrals, and to facilitate the Endowment of Canonries by private benefaction, ordered to be brought in by Mr. BERESFORD HOPE, Mr. WILLIAM HENRY SMITH, and Mr. J. G. TALBOT.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 18.]

  SALMON FISHERIES BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. DILLWYN, Bill to amend the Law relating to Salmon Fisheries in England and Wales, ordered to be brought in by Mr. DILLWYN, Mr. WILLIAM LOWTHER, Mr. ASSHETON, and Mr. ALEXANDER BROWN.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 19.]

  REAL ESTATE INTESTACY BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. LOCKE KING, Bill to amend the Law of Succession to Real Estate in cases of Intestacy, ordered to be brought in by Mr. LOCKE KING and Mr. HINDE PALMER.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 20.]

  HYPOTHEC ABOLITION (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  On Motion of Sir DAVID WEDDERBURN, Bill for the abolition of the Law of Hypothec in Scotland, ordered to be brought in by Sir DAVID WEDDERBURN, Mr. CARTER, Mr. FORDYCE, and Mr. CRAUFURD.
  Bill presented, and read the first time [Bill 21.]

  OCCASIONAL SERMONS BILL.
  Subject matter considered in Committee.
  (In the Committee.)
  Resolved, That the Chairman be directed to move the House, that leave be given to bring in a Bill to enable Incumbent Ministers, in certain cases, to provide for the delivery of Occasional Sermons or Lectures in their Churches or Chapels by persons not in Holy Orders of the Church of England.
  Resolution reported:— Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. COWPER-TEMPLE and Mr. THOMAS HUGHES.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 22.]

  UNION RATING (IRELAND) BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. M'MAHON, Bill to assimilate the Law for the relief of the Poor in Ireland to that of England by substituting Union Rating for the present system of Rating by Electoral Divisions, ordered to be brought in by Mr. M'MAHON, Mr. DOWNING, and Mr. STACPOOLE.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 23.]

  MARRIED WOMEN'S PROPERTY ACT (1870) AMENDMENT (NO. 2) BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. STAVELEY HILL, Bill to amend the Married Women's Property Act, 1870, ordered to be brought in by Mr. STAVELEY HILL, Mr. RAIKES, and Mr. GOLDNEY.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 24.]

  SITES FOR PLACES OF RELIGIOUS WORSHIP BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. OSBORNE MORGAN, Bill to afford further facilities for the conveyance of land for Sites for Places of Religious Worship, ordered to be brought in by Mr. OSBORNE MORGAN, Mr. MORLEY, Mr. HINDE PALMER, and Mr. CHARLES REED.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 25.]

  PARLIAMENTARY ELECTORS REGISTRATION BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. PELL, Bill for consolidating and amending the Law for the Registration of Persons entitled to Vote in the Election of Members to serve in Parliament for England and Wales, ordered to be brought in by Mr. PELL, Mr. BOURKE, Mr. WILLIAM HENRY SMITH, and Mr. ROWLAND WINN.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 26.]

  PUBLIC WORSHIP FACILITIES BILL.
  Subject matter considered in Committee.
  (In the Committee.)
  Resolved, That the Chairman be directed to move the House, that leave be given to bring in
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  a Bill to provide facilities for the performance of Public Worship according to the rites and ceremonies of the Church of England.
  Resolution reported: — Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. SALT, Mr. COWPER-TEMPLE, Sir SMITH CHILD, Mr. AKROYD, and Mr. DIMSDALE.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 27.]

  UNION OF BENEFICES BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. SPENCER WALPOLE, Bill to amend an Act passed in the twenty-third and twenty-fourth years of Her Majesty's reign, intituled "An Act for the Union of Contiguous Benefices in Cities, Towns, and Boroughs," ordered to be brought in by Mr. SPENCER WALPOLE, Viscount SANDON, Mr. WILLIAM HENRY SMITH, and Mr. ANDREW JOHNSTON.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 28.]

  CONTAGIOUS DISEASES ACTS REPEAL (1866–1869) BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. WILLIAM FOWLER, Bill to repeal the Contagious Diseases Acts 1866–1869, ordered to be brought in by Mr. WILLIAM FOWLER, Mr. JACOB BRIGHT, and Mr. MUNDELLA.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 29.]

  ALDERMEN AND COUNCILLORS QUALIFICATION BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. DIXON, Bill to amend the Municipal Corporations Act of 1835, with respect to the Qualification of Aldermen and Councillors, ordered to be brought in by Mr. DIXON, Mr. CARTER, Mr. MUNDELLA, and Mr. STAPLETON.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 30.]

  FIRES BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. M'LAGAN, Bill to make provision for investigating into the causes and. circumstances of Fires, ordered to be brought in by Mr. M'LAGAN, Mr. CHARLES TURNER, and Mr. AGAR-ELLIS.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 31.]

  PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS (EXPENSES) BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. FAWCETT, Bill to amend the Law relating to the Expenses of Returning Officers at Parliamentary Elections, ordered to be brought in by Mr. FAWCETT, Mr. BAINES, and Mr. M'LAREN.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 32.]

  BASTARDY LAWS AMENDMENT BILL.
  On Motion of Mr. CHARLEY, Bill to amend the Bastardy Laws, ordered to be brought in by Mr. CHARLEY, Mr. THOMAS HUGHES, Mr. EYKYN, and Mr. WHITWELL.
  Bill presented, and read the first time. [Bill 33.]
  House adjourned at Eight o'clock till Monday next.

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILL—First Reading—Turks and Caicos Islands* (2)

PRIVATE BILLS.
Ordered, That this House will not receive any petition for a Private Bill after Friday the 21 st day of March next, unless such Private Bill shall have been approved by the Court of Chancery; nor any petition for a Private Bill approved by the Court of Chancery after Friday the 9th day of May next:
Ordered, That this House will not receive any report from the Judges upon petitions presented to this House for Private Bills after Friday the 9th day of May next:
Ordered, That the said Orders be printed and published, and affixed on the doors of this House and Westminster Hall. (No.9.)

THE DEBATE ON THE ADDRESS.

  EXPLANATION.
  THE DUKE OF RICHMOND: My Lords, with your permission I wish to make a correction in reference to a few words which fell from me last evening. It will be in the recollection of your Lordships that I quoted a newspaper report of the proceedings on an occasion when a deputation waited on the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Home Department. From that report it appeared that the gentlemen composing the deputation made some very extravagant statements, and the right hon. Gentleman was reported to have said that he agreed more or less with those statements. I then asked whether the right hon. Gentleman adhered to the same opinions. My Lords, this morning I received from Mr. Bruce a letter, in which he says— "You will much oblige me by stating in the House of Lords my unqualified contradiction of the accuracy
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  of the report quoted by you. "I am exceedingly glad to receive this statement from the right hon. Gentleman, and of course I am happy to make the correction he desires. I will only add that I am very glad that the right hon. Gentleman has repudiated the sentiments attributed to him.
  EARL GRANVILLE: Every one who has any experience of deputations knows that the members of the deputation sometimes give their own reports of what they conceive to have occurred when they were received; and as they have neither the training nor experience of the gentlemen who sit in our gallery, we cannot look for the same accuracy in their reports.

LANDS IMPROVEMENT ACTS (IRELAND).

  MOTION FOR A RETURN.
  THE EARL OF BELMORE,in rising to move for certain Returns in a specified form, of the total amounts sanctioned by the Board of Public Works in Ireland for loans under the Land Improvement Acts since January 1, 1871, said, that last August the Lord Lieutenant, in a speech at Belfast, had alluded to the amounts with a view of showing the advantage which he considered had accrued from the Land Act of 1870. Now, he (the Earl of Belmore) did not in the least dispute the fact that loans were sanctioned to the extent stated by his Excellency; but what he did doubt was, whether any very considerable sums had been borrowed by landowners with a view to their being laid out on lands not in their own occupation. For this reason he moved for these Returns.
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYsaid, that there was no objection to giving the Returns.
  Motion agreed to.
  Return of the total amount of all loans under the Land Improvement Acts sanctioned by the Board of Public Works in Ireland since 1st January 1871; to be made in the following form:—[Tabular Form]—Ordered to be laid before the House.—(The Earl of Belmore.)

  EXTRADITION TREATY WITH SPAIN—THE "NORTHFLEET" AND THE "MURILLO."—QUESTIONS.
  THE EARL OF CARNARVON: My Lords, the Question of which I have given Notice does not require any

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  lengthened preface because the facts of the sad event to which it has more immediate reference are so recent that they must be in the recollection of your Lordships. It is only about 10 days ago that off Dungeness Point the emigrant ship Northfleet, having on board a large number of passengers, was run into by a vessel assumed to be the Spanish steamer Murillo, which steamed away after the collision without rendering, or attempting to render, any assistance to the emigrant ship. Assuming that version of the disaster to be correct, the act of the Murillo in deserting the Northfleet under such circumstances was one of the greatest iniquity and inhumanity that it is possible to conceive; but, apart from this particular instance, I think it desirable that we should understand the bearings of the case. I apprehend that if an English subject commanding a vessel acted in such a manner he would be answerable first of all civilly in the Court of Admiralty, and next criminally by an indictment for manslaughter— the fact of his making away after the collision without having given any assistance being probably taken as evidence of wrong intention on his part. It appears to me that in the same way a foreigner who has escaped to his own country could be made answerable in the English Courts, supposing always that there was an Extradition Treaty with the country to which he belonged; and I conclude that even where no Extradition Treaty existed, such a foreigner would be at once made amenable in the Courts of this country if he ventured to come here. But I wish to know from my noble Friend the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, whether there is any Convention or Extradition Treaty with the Government of Spain, by which, under such circumstances as those of the recent collision of the Spanish steamer Murillo with the English emigrant ship Northfleet, the master of the Murillo can be made answerable to the criminal jurisdiction of this country for an offence alleged to be committed in English waters? I am afraid there is not. From a Return laid before Parliament last year I find that there are four Extradition Treaties between this country and other nations—namely, the United States, France, Denmark, and Germany; and we know, by a passage in the Speech from the Throne, that an Extradition Treaty has been
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  concluded with Belgium. But there is a footnote to the Return which I have quoted, in which it is stated that negotiations were on foot for Treaties with other countries. Well, then, I want further to ask whether or not, in such a case as that of this collision—assuming the master of the Murillo to have acted as alleged—such a case would be covered by an Extradition Treaty? In three out of the four Treaties, while murder and attempt to murder are included among the offences for which Extradition will be granted, manslaughter is not. It is only in the case of the last of these Treaties—that with Germany—that manslaughter is provided for; and in this Treaty with Germany alone, which seems to have been prepared with unusual care, the case of sinking a ship at sea is provided for. But, obviously, cases of this kind should be included. There can be no doubt that, owing to various causes, the danger to ships in the Channel has much increased of late years. Everybody, whether professionally acquainted with the sea or not, must be perfectly aware of that. There has been a large addition, not only to ordinary sailing ships, but to the number of steamers, and the recklessness of the masters of some of those steamers amounts to positive crime. These vessels, often ill-found, with few men on board, with no watch set, run down the Channel in thick fogs without slackening speed. Cases have come before the Admiralty Court itself in which recklessness amounting to nothing short of manslaughter has been clearly shown. I am afraid that there are Atlantic steamers belonging to respectable firms the masters of which make it a boast that they never slacken speed in the thickest of thick weather. The sinking of the Northfleet is a great catastrophe, because it involved the loss of some 300 lives; but the occurrence itself is not an exception. Cases have occurred in which the loss of life was not so great, but which were caused by recklessness quite as great, and attended with quite the same amount of inhumanity. Now that the matter has been brought home to the whole country by this collision in the Channel, I cannot help pressing on the Government the importance of first of all revising our own regulations. There should be a regulation requiring a difference to be made between the

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  signals for pilots and those intended to indicate distress. There should also be a reconsideration of the terms on which certificates are granted to masters of Channel steamers; for I believe that the greatest abuse often exists in this respect; and I have always thought, though I am aware of great difficulties, that a greater number of boats might with advantage be required to be carried by emigrant ships. But I would suggest to my noble Friend that the Government should avail themselves of the present opportunity of not only revising our own regulations, but also of, as far as possible, securing satisfactory international arrangements with reference to those dangers. As a number of Extradition Treaties have yet to be concluded, a more satisfactory arrangement ought to be come to with other nations in reference to a matter of such importance. I have no doubt that my noble Friend will answer the Questions I have put; and I hope to hear from him, on the part of Her Majesty's Government, that the whole subject shall receive their consideration at a very early period.
  THE EARL OF ROSEBERYwished to ask his noble Friend the Secretary, for Foreign Affairs, What progress had been made with regard to Extradition Treaties since the last announcement on the subject? On two occasions last year he had called attention to the state of our Extradition Treaties. On one of those occasions his noble Friend (Earl Granville) replied that such a Treaty had just been concluded with Germany, and that others were in progress of negotiation with Spain, Italy, the Netherlands, and Austria. But their Lordships had heard nothing more of those latter Treaties. The noble Earl also announced that negotiations were going on for new Treaties with Denmark and the United States. That would require some explanation, because it would be in the recollection of their Lordships that a Treaty with Denmark was signed as recently as 1862. As to the existing Treaty with the United States, he did not see why that should be put an end to. He supposed six months' notice had been given; but he hoped the noble Earl would state why that had been done. At the time the noble Earl spoke of all those Treaties, the one with Belgium had been already ratified— so that it would appear no progress had been made since last Session.
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  He concluded, therefore, that some obstacles existed, because no Peer in that House, nor any person in this country, was more impressed with the importance of this Extradition question than the noble Earl the Secretary for Foreign Affairs. He hoped, therefore, the noble Earl would state why it was that no progress had bean made during the Recess. It seemed to him that this was a matter in which everyone had a deep interest, and he hoped the time would come when it would be impossible for a criminal in one country to avoid punishment by fleeing to another. The appalling catastrophe of the Northfleet, reaching as it did to the very hearts of the people, was eminently qualified to strengthen the hands of the Government in their endeavours to bring this about.
  THE EARL OF LAUDERDALEsaid, there could be no excuse whatever for a vessel which had struck another leaving that vessel without waiting to see what damage had been done, except the persons on board the vessel making away were of opinion that their own vessel was sinking. Even in that case her best chance was to remain close to the other vessel till they saw whether she also was sinking, which it was very possible she might not be. A vessel running into another was generally the result of going at too great a speed, which prevented her from being able to stop in time to prevent the accident, and the sooner a law was passed to prevent steam vessels running beyond a certain speed through a place known to be much frequented by shipping—the Channel, for instance—the better. At all events, no vessel which had come into collision with another should be permitted to run away until it had ascertained what amount of damage had been done to the other.
  EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, it has been found convenient that Notice should be given when Questions are proposed to be asked in your Lordships' House, and I venture to suggest that it would also be convenient if all the Questions proposed to be asked were included in the Notice. Nothing could have been more simple than the Question put on the Paper by my noble Friend opposite (the Earl of Carnarvon), and nothing would have been more simple than to give it a direct answer; but other Questions have been put which, even if Notice had been given of them, I doubt

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  whether it would be prudent to reply to. I doubt whether even after Notice it would be expedient to lay down the exact bearings of our own municipal law on an hypothetical case, and to lay down the exact limits within which the existing Extradition Treaties would have a bearing is what I can scarcely be expected to do without Notice. We have no Extradition Treaty with Spain; but we are actively negotiating at the present moment with the view of having one completed. The draught Treaty recently received has been referred by the Foreign Office to the Home Office for observations, and these have made further negotiations necessary before the Treaty can be concluded. I am not astonished that my noble Friend behind me (the Earl of Rosebery) should have said that there are no visible signs of progress in respect of some of the Treaties to which I referred last Session; but I am happy to say that though the signs are not visible the progress has been considerable. With regard to the United States, the fact is we sent proposals to the United States last year; but in consequence of the Presidential election, and other circumstances, our proposals were delayed till within a very few days ago. I am, however, happy to say that we are likely to agree to the terms of a Treaty. I believe all difficulties have been removed; and the American Government is anxious that the Treaty should be ratified by the Senate before the Session closes. With regard to Treaties with other countries, there is the old difficulty of different definitions of crime in different countries. There are also difficulties in our own law. A month ago we proposed to the Home Department to consider whether it would not be desirable to make amendments in our own law with the view of meeting these difficulties; the Home Office is now engaged in considering the subject, and I hope we shall soon be able to present a draught Bill for the purpose of giving effect to what we think necessary. As to Switzerland, I am not aware of any difficulty except one which has recently arisen. The present state of the law requires the intervention of a diplomatic agent, and the Swiss have no diplomatic agent—nothing but a consul. Some time ago Lord Lyons stated to us good reasons why it was not desirable then to hurry
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  on the negotiations with France; but the circumstances to which he referred have since disappeared, and we are now in communication with the French Government on the subject of the Treaty. A curious difficulty has arisen in the case of Portugal. There is no capital punishment in that country, and the Portuguese Government wanted us to insert in the Treaty an undertaking that capital punishment should not be inflicted in this country on anyone delivered up under the Treaty. We did not feel justified in agreeing to the insertion of such an undertaking. With regard to Austria, there have been difficulties on several points; but they have been so far removed that I think that we have now established a fair basis for coming to a satisfactory conclusion. As to Holland, we have been awaiting the action of the Dutch Ministry, who are amending their own laws on some not very important points. I think, therefore, I am justified in saying we have made sensible progress. It is impossible to know what difficulties may start up, but I believe we shall be able to conclude a number of those Treaties. I cannot sit down without saying how entirely I concur with the noble Earl as to the dreadful disaster which happened to the Northfleet the other day. I can assure your Lordships that all the circumstances connected with it immediately excited the attention of the Government. I shall not state what steps were taken, because Papers which will shortly be laid before Parliament will put your Lordships in possession of all the communications which have passed on the subject; but I may further inform your Lordships that the Board of Trade is attentively considering what steps it may be able to take with the view of diminishing those evils, which I am afraid it will be impossible to altogether provide against.

  TURKS AND CAICOS ISLANDS BILL [H.L.]
  A Bill "to enable Her Majesty by Order in Council to annex the Turks and Caicos Islands to the Colony of Jamaica"—Was presented by The Earl of KIMBERLEY; read 1a. (No. 2.)
  House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, to Monday next, Eleven o'clock.