Sitting of 1 May 1868

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—Second Reading—Marriages (Frampton Mansel)* (85).
Committee—Petty Sessions and Lock-up Houses* (71).
Report—Petty Sessions and Lock-up Houses* (71).
Third Reading—Oyster and Mussel Fisheries* (58), and passed.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE—VICTORIA—THE APPROPRIATION ACT.

  POSTPONEMENT OF MOTION.
  THE EARL OF MALMESBURYsaid, he had to appeal to the noble Lord opposite (Lord Lyveden) who had given notice—
  "To call the Attention of the House to the Correspondence respecting and arising from the Non-enactment of the Appropriation Act in Victoria and the Recall of the Governor of the Colony,"
  to postpone his Motion until some day next week, in consequence of what had taken place last evening in the other House of Parliament.
  LORD LYVEDENsaid, that although the Motion he intended to submit was not of a party character, he should not hesitate to comply with the noble Earl's request. He should therefore postpone it till Friday next. But at the same time he must express a hope that the noble Duke the Secretary of State for the Colonies would not take any action relating to the subject before the discussion.
  THE DUKE OF BUCKINGHAMsaid, he did not think that it would be right for him to give any engagement in reference to the course which he might think fit to take should any circumstances arise which, in his opinion, called for the action of the Secretary of State; but he could assure the noble Lord that it was not likely that anything could arise before the discussion which would affect the question in one way or the other. The last mail brought nothing which called for an answer, and he was not aware that it was likely that there would be any communication from the Government to the Colony before the time when this discussion was arranged to come on. With regard to the question itself, he would say that he believed there was not, nor ever had been any difference of opinion between the Government and the noble Lord with regard to the impropriety of such a grant as that which had been proposed; nor did he believe that there would be any difference of opinion in their Lordships' House. No doubt there might be difference of opinion as to the course which should be pursued; and upon that matter it was quite right that there should be discussion.

  HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS THE DUKE OF EDINBURGH.—THE QUEEN'S ANSWER TO THE ADDRESS.
  THE LORD STEWARD OF THE HOUSEHOLD (The Earl of TANKERVILLE)reported Her Majesty's most

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  gracious Answer to the Address of Monday last, as follows:—
  "I receive with deep satisfaction your sympathising address. The attempt upon the life of my son, the Duke of Edinburgh, has I feel only further aroused the loyalty of my Australian subjects, so heartily displayed in his reception. I am very sensible of the Divine protection afforded him, and in my anxiety still trust in it; while in this as in all trials I derive consolation and support from the affectionate attachment of my Parliament and People."

  THE PUBLIC OFFICES—NEW INDIA AND FOREIGN OFFICES.—QUESTION.
  LORD REDESDALE LORD REDESDALE moved for—
  "Return of the Cost of making and erecting Four Statues recently placed against the Pilasters at the South-west Angle of the India Office, and the Cost of the decorative Painting of the Interiors of the India and Foreign Offices: And to ask, Whether it is intended to allow the East Front of the new Offices on the South Side of Downing Street to be completed on a Line which will render the Demolition of the Front of the present Government Offices in Whitehall necessary, or to require it to be so constructed as to form a handsome Elevation in connexion with those Buildings?"
  The noble Lord expressed his regret that the Government had this year taken so small a Vote as £10,000 to proceed with these works, and added that it was of great importance that the building should be quickly proceeded with. The appearance of the waste ground there at present greatly disfigured the locality. With respect to the statues on the exterior, those in the niches, he understood, were intended to represent Governors General; he might possibly have made out one or two, and perhaps some might be able to detect a likeness; but he could not consider them particularly ornamental. The statues to which his notice referred appeared to be female figures, and they might represent the cities of India; but they were quite uncalled for and far from being ornamental. It would have been much better that the money which they cost should have been applied in completing the building, which he thought was a matter of very great importance. The same observation applied to the large sum of money that had been expended on the interior decorations. There was another point which appeared to have been very little attended to, and was likely, therefore, to lead to a very unsatisfactory result—he alluded to the manner in which the buildings were being carried out in connection with the
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  existing frontage of those in Whitehall. That row of buildings as altered by the designs of Sir Charles Barry presented a very handsome elevation; but it stood on a different line from that of the new offices, and it would require skilful arrangement to connect the new buildings when completed with those already erected. It had been contemplated by the architect that the existing buildings should be pulled down; but, considering the time it took to erect buildings for public offices, it was extremely desirable that those now erected should be rendered available. Any design which might be adopted should be carried out in a manner to secure the ultimate arrangement of these buildings and the widening of Parliament Street in the most efficient manner. Nothing but a design having for its object to connect all the buildings already erected and those about to be erected would lead to a satisfactory result. He regretted that he was frequently obliged to call their Lordships' attention to this subject, and he also felt sorry that all the land necessary for the purposes of these offices had not been purchased some time ago; for he believed that the longer the purchase was delayed the greater would be the sum required to be paid.
  THE EARL OF MALMESBURYsaid, that, on one point, he could set the mind of his noble Friend at ease, for the cost of the statues to which he referred was only £847, and the cost of the decorative painting of the interior of the India Office was about £190. He had no objection to lay before the House a Return showing the expense of painting and decorating the interiors of both the India Office and Foreign Office. A general scheme was in contemplation for concentrating the public offices. A Report on the subject, which had been transmitted to the Treasury, would be very soon laid before Parliament, when the whole plan would be explained.
  LORD TAUNTONdesired to refer to the statues recently placed in Westminster Hall, and said, that, if anything could tend to vulgarize that noble building, it would be the erection of such statues as now stood in the Hall. A Member of the House of Commons had suggested the addition of the statue of Oliver Cromwell to the statues now standing there; but, in his opinion, the best thing to do would be to take away all the present statues.
  LORD REDESDALEsaid, that, if the

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  cost of the four statues at the India Office was £800, or £200 for each, an expenditure of £8,000 would be required for the whole number of forty statues which were intended to be erected. He thought it would be much better to add that sum of £8,000 to the amount required to be expended for the commencement of the new buildings. The statues were positively unsightly, and, in respect to position, contrary to every principle of architecture.

FRIENDLY SOCIETIES BILL—(No. 43.)
(The Earl of Lichfield.)
FRIENDLY SOCIETIES BILL—(No. 43.)

  SECOND READING POSTPONED.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  THE EARL OF LICHFIELDstated that he had agreed, at the request of the Government, to postpone the Motion for Second Reading until next week, and begged to correct a misconception respecting the 3rd clause. That clause would in no way interfere with the power given by previous Acts of Parliament to members of friendly societies to insure the lives of their own children. It simply prevented the children becoming members before the age of seven. In reply to a suggestion from a noble Lord on the other side, he begged to say that he was most ready to consent to the Bill being referred to a Select Committee; but upon the understanding that the Committee should confine itself strictly to the clauses of the Bill. He also begged to announce that he intended to move for the appointment of a Commission to inquire into the subject of the insurances of friendly societies in general, more especially with reference to burial societies. He was perfectly persuaded in his own mind that nothing short of a Commission would bring before the public what was going on amongst the working classes, in respect to those insurance offices and companies. In this Bill, he only dealt with the class of societies now registered under an Act of Parliament as friendly societies; but he was aware that a great deal of evil exists in some of those that are unregistered.
  Second Reading put off to Tuesday next.

  PUBLIC PETITIONS.
  Ordered, That the Name of the Lord presenting a Petition shall be written thereon.
  House adjourned at Six o'clock, to Monday nest, Eleven o'clock.