Sitting of 5 July 1865

ROMAN CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY IN IRELAND.—QUESTION.
MR. HENNESSYrose to put a Question to the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department of which he had given him notice privately. The Question was an important one as far as Ireland was concerned. He had mentioned the subject to the Chief Secretary, who referred him to the right hon. Baronet. The Question referred to negotiations supposed to be going on between the Government and the Irish Bishops respecting the proposal lately mentioned in the House as to the Catholic University in Ireland. In order to render the Question perfectly clear, he might mention that a Member of the Government

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(Mr. Chichester Forteseue), in his address to the electors of Louth, had stated it was with the greatest satisfaction the Government found that the promoters of the Catholic University were prepared to meet the views of the Government on this matter. Rumours were afloat on the subject, and he should be glad to know how far they were well founded. He would beg to read the following extract from a letter of the Roman Catholic Archbishop, dated St. Jarlath's, Tuam, Feast of St. Peter and Paul, 1865:—
"The rumour is utterly without foundation. The Bishops have had no deliberation on the subject. What the private opinion of individuals may be I am not aware, but, whatever may be their opinions, they are not authorized in the name of the Irish Episeopacy to treat with the Government on important subjects affecting the interests of all. Such rumours should be received with the utmost caution, for it is not likely that any body of men would attach much importance to vague Ministerial declarations on the eve of an expiring Parliament, which cannot remind the speakers of such promises, or require their fulfilment. Besides, when the foundations of sound Catholic instruction are laid by the removal of the acknowledged evils of that portion of the mixed education under the National Board, it will then be high time for us to treat with the Government on those high branches of collegiate education which they have been labouring to establish, without any reference to episcopal authority, and to the injury of the Catholic people.
He wished to know how far the statement in the address of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Louth is correct— whether the Government has communicated with the Irish Bishops on the subject, and if they agree or disagree with the proposal which the Government has made?
SIR GEORGE GREYsaid, in reply, that the hon. Member had given him no notice of this question till just before he rose to put it, He had no hesitation, however, in saying that since the time when he made the statement on the part of the Government in that House, on the Motion brought forward by the hon. Member for Tralee (The O'Donoghue) he had had no formal communication with any persons on the subject of the change to be made in the Charter of the Queen's University in order to meet the views and wishes of the Roman Catholics in Ireland in relation to obtaining University degrees. He had communicated privately with the Lord Lieutenant and several friends connected with Ireland, members of the Roman Catholic Church, in order to ascertain in what manner the object
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could best be effected in accordance with the wishes of those which were chiefly interested; but he had had no communication, direct or indirect, formal or private, with any member of the Roman Catholic hierarchy on the subject. He had stated that the Government thought it just and reasonable that the same facilities substantially should be given to Roman Catholics in Ireland to obtain University degrees as were enjoyed by others of Her Majesty's subjects, and they were prepared to act fully in accordance with that declaration. He had advised that such a change should he made in the Charter of the Queen's University in Ireland as would accomplish the object. He might be allowed to add that the manner in which the proposal of the Government had been received by the Roman Catholic body in Ireland was entirely satisfactory.
House adjourned at Six o'clock.

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILL—Third Reading— Consolidated Fund (Appropriation).*
Royal Assent—Marriages (Lamborne) [28 & 29 Vict. c. 81]; Prisons (Scotland) Act Amendment [28 & 29 Vict. c. 84]; Procurators (Scotland) [28 &c 29 Vict. c. 85]; Partnership Amendment [28 & 29 Vict. c. 86]; General Post Office (Additional Site) [28 & 29 Vict. c. 87]; Carriers Act Amendment [28 & 29 Vict. c. 94]; Sugar Duties and Drawbacks [28 & 29 Vict. c. 95]; County Courts Equitable Jurisdiction [28 &c 29 Vict. c. 99]; Record of Title (Ireland) [28 & 29 Viet. c. 88]; Harbours Transfer [28 &c 29 Vict. c. 100]; Land Debentures (Ireland) [28 & 29 Vict. c. 101]; Small Benefices (Ireland) Act (1860) Amendment [28 & 29 Vict. c. 82]; Smoke Nuisances (Scotland) Acts Amendment [28 &c 29 Vict. c. 102]; Greenwich Hospital [28 & 29 Vict. c. 89]; Fire Brigade (Metropolis) [28 & 29 Vict. c. 90]; Turnpike Trusts Arrangements [28 & 29 Vict. c. 91]; Ayr Burghs Election [28 & 29 Vict. c. 92]; Comptroller of the Exchequer and Public Audit [28 & 29 Vict. c. 93]; Inland Revenue [28 & 29 Vict. c. 96]; Indemnity [28 & 29 Vict. c. 97]; Compound Spirits Warehousing [28 &c 29 Vict. c. 98]; Admiralty, &c, Acts Repeal [28 & 29 Vict. c. 112]; Salmon Fishery Act (1861) Amendment [28 & 29 Vict. c. 121]; Clerical Subscription [28 & 29 Vict. c. 122]; Falmouth Borough [28 & 29 Vict. c. 103]; Crown Suits, Ac. [28 & 29 Vict. c. 144]; Poor Law Board Continuance [28 & 29 Vict. c. 105]; Colonial Docks Loans [28 & 29 Vict. c. 106]; Turnpike Acts Continuance [28 & 29 Vict. c. 107]; Local Government Supplemental (No. 5) [28 &c 29 Vict. c. 110]; Ulster Canal Transfer [28 & 29 Vict. c. 109]; Locomotives on Roads [28 &c 29 Vict. c. 83]; Local Government Supplemental (No. 4) [28 &c 29 Vict. c. 108]; Navy and Marines (Property of Deceased) [28 & 29 Vict. c. 111], Naval Discipline Act Amendment [28 &c 29 Vict. c. 115]; Foreign Juris-
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diction Act Amendment [28 & 29 Vict. c. 116]; Rochdale Vicarage [28 & 29 Vict. c. 117]; Peace Preservation (Ireland) Act (1856) Amendment [28 & 29 Vict. c. 118]; Expiring Laws Continuance [28 & 29 Vict. c. 119]; Pier and Harbour Orders Confirmation (No. 2) [28 & 29 Vict. c. 114]; Harwich Harbour [28 & 29 Vict. c. 120]; Colonial Governors (Retiring Pensions) [28 & 29 Vict. c. 113].

RESIGNATION OF THE LORD CHANCELLOR.

  PERSONAL STATEMENT.
  THE LORD CHANCELLOR: My Lords, I have deemed it my duty, out of the deep respect I owe to your Lordships, to attend here to-day that I may in person announce to you that I tendered the resignation of my office yesterday to Her Majesty, and that it has been by Her Majesty most graciously accepted. My Lords, the step which I took yesterday only, I should have taken several months ago if I had followed the dictates of my own judgment, and acted on my own views alone. But I felt that I was not at liberty to do so. As a Member of the Government I could not take such a step without the permission and sanction of the Government. As far as I was myself personally concerned, possessing, as I had the happiness to do, the friendship of the noble Lord at the head of the Government, and of the Members of the Cabinet, I laid aside my own feelings, being satisfied that my honour and my sense of duty would be safe if I followed their opinion rather than my own. My Lords, I believe that the holder of the Great Seal ought never to be in the position of an accused person, and such, unfortunately, being the case, for my own part, I felt it due to the great office that I hold that I should retire from it and meet any accusation in the character of a private person. But my noble Friend at the head of the Government combated that view, and I think with great justice. He said it would not do to admit this as a principle of political conduct, for the consequence would be that whoever brought up an accusation would at once succeed in driving the Lord Chancellor from office. But when the charges were first raised that were investigated by a Committee of your Lordships, I did deem it my duty to press my resignation, and the answer which I then received, and to which I was obliged to assent, was that answer of my noble Friend which I have just described to you. When the Committee was appointed

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  in the House of Commons, I deemed it to be my duty, acting upon the same principle, once more to tender my resignation; but on this occasion, also, I deferred to the objections raised by the noble Friend whom I have already mentioned. Again, when notice was given of the late Motion in the House of Commons, I begged that that Motion might be rendered unnecessary by my resignation being announced. But my noble Friend thought it was my duty still to persevere; and, accordingly, my Lords, my resignation, earnestly as I wished it to be accepted, was postponed in the manner I described to you until yesterday. Let it not be for one moment supposed that I say this in order to set up my own opinion in opposition to the kind feeling which I experienced, and the judicious advice which I received, coming, as they did, from one whom I was bound to respect, and to whose authority I felt called upon to defer. I have made this statement, my Lords, simply in the hope that you will believe, and that the public will believe that I have not clung to office, much less that I have been influenced by any baser or more unworthy motive. With regard to the opinion which the House of Commons has pronounced I do not presume to say a word. I am bound to accept the decision. I may, however, express the hope that after an interval of time calmer thoughts will prevail, and feelings more favourable to myself be entertained. I am thankful for the opportunity which my tenure of office has afforded me to propose and pass measures which have received the approbation of Parliament and which I believe, nay, I will venture to predict, will be productive of great benefit to the country. With these measures I hope my name will be associated. I regret deeply that a great measure which I had at heart—I refer to the formation of a digest of the whole law—I have been unable to inaugurate; for it was not until this Session that the means were afforded by Parliament for that purpose. That great scheme, my Lords, I bequeath to be prepared by my successor. As to the future I can only venture to promise that it will be my anxious endeavour, in the character of a private Member of your Lordships' House, to promote and assist in the accomplishment of all those reforms and improvements in the administration of justice which I feel yet remain to be carried out. I may add, in reference to the appellate jurisdiction of your Lordships' House, that I am happy to say it is
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  left in a state which will, I think, be found to be satisfactory. There will not be at the close of the Session a single judgment in arrear, save one in which the arguments, after occupying several days, were brought to a conclusion only the day before yesterday. In the Court of Chancery I am glad to be able to inform your Lordships that I trust that by the end of this sitting there will not remain any appeal unheard or any judgment undelivered. I mention these things simply to show that it has been my earnest desire, from the moment I assumed the seals of office, to devote all the energies I possessed and all the industry of which I was capable to the public service. My Lords, it only remains for me to thank you, which I do most sincerely, for the kindness which I have uniformly received at your hands. It is very possible that by some word inadvertently used—some abruptness of manner—I may have given pain or exposed myself to your unfavourable opinion. If that be so I beg of you to accept the sincere expression of my regret, while I indulge the hope that the circumstance may be erased from your memories. I have no more to say, my Lords, except to thank you for the kindness with which you have listened to these observations.
  House adjourned at half past Five o'clock, till To-morrow, a quarter past Eleven o'clock.