Sitting of 8 April 1862

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1° Exchequer Bonds (£1,000,000).
2° Australian Colonies Government Act Amendment.

THE INSOLVENT DEBTORS' COURT.

  QUESTION.
  MR. ROEBUCKsaid, he rose to ask the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether he means to propose any measure for the relief of the Clerks of the Insolvent Debtors' Court; and whether he intends to introduce a Declaratory Act fur that purpose?
  THE ATTORNEY GENERALsaid, the circumstances to which the question of the hon. and learned Gentleman referred certainly required full investigation. If compensation was to be awarded to the Clerks of the Insolvent Debtors' Court, the amount must of course be voted by that House, and the House could not be expected to proceed in the matter until it was satisfied of the justice and extent of the claims put forward. The Government remained of the opinion they had previously expressed, that the proper course to be pursued was that the Clerks should petition the House, sitting forth the nature and amount of their claims. The Government would not object to such a Petition being referred to a Select Committee, and would be further prepared to act upon the Report of that Committee. He need not add that there was no intention on the part of the Government to bring in any declaratory measure upon the subject.

THE CUPOLA SHIPS.—QUESTION.
LORD ROBERT MONTAGUsaid, he wished to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty, When Captain Cooper Coles first submitted to the Admiralty his plans which, have lately been adopted for ships of war; if such plans were reported on at the time; and, if so, by whom; and whether that Report was favourable or otherwise; and whether there is any objection to lay the Papers on the subject upon the table of the House?
VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: Sir, I have no knowledge of the details that would enable me to answer the question; but when my noble lord (Lord C. Paget) is in his Place, I have no doubt he will be able to give a satisfactory reply.

TURKISH FINANCE.—QUESTION.
MR. FREELANDsaid, he would beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether any application has been made to the Turkish Government for their consent to have laid upon the table of the House the Report of Lord Hobart and Mr. Foster on the Finances of Turkey; whether the: responsibility of withholding that Report rests on the English Government or on the Turkish Government; and, whether that Report has been printed; and, if so, to what class of readers Her Majesty's Government are of opinion that a knowledge of its contents should be confined, at a time when many millions of British capital are being invested in Turkish securities.
VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: I think, Sir, I stated on a former occasion that the Report in question was presented to the Turkish Government. It was made for the information and use of the Turkish Government, but it was delivered in the first instance to Her Majesty's Government, and was by them sent to Constantinople. I believe it has not yet been translated into a language which the Turkish Ministers can read, it being drawn up in English; and therefore I can hardly say at the present moment that the Turkish Government have knowledge of it. They have it, but not in a form in which they can make use it. The responsibility of not producing it rests so far upon Her Majesty's Government, that we did not think ourselves entitled to publish a Report relating to the financial details of the Turkish administration until the Turkish Government had full cognizance of it and had intimated that they would have no objection to its publication. Whether they may object or not I really am unable to say. The Report has been confidentially printed at the Foreign Office, as is the custom with documents which are intended to be read by Members of the Cabinet. It saves a good deal of time, and is otherwise very convenient to have them thus confidentially printed rather than to multiply manuscript copies for the Members of the Cabinet. But the documents are printed for the confidential use of the Cabinet, and I do not apprehend that any other person has had access to the Report on Turkish finances. If it has reached the hands of any other person, it can only have done so by breach of faith on the part of those who had the custody of it.
MR. FREELAND: Am I to under-
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stand that the Turkish Government have received a copy of the report in English?
VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: Yes. The Report itself was sent to Turkey, and it is now being translated into French, which is a language which the Turkish Ministers know. There are very few of them who have sufficient knowledge of English to enable them to read a report in that language.

EASTER HOLYDAYS.—OBSERVATIONS.
VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: Sir, I was asked yesterday about the day on which, this House would adjourn for the Easter recess. It may be convenient to hon. Members that I should now state exactly how that matter stands. There are certain Resolutions connected with the Budget relating to brewers' licences, and other matters, which have yet to be passed in Committee. We hope they may be passed through Committee on Thursday, and reported on Friday, for it is essential they should be reported before the recess. In that case the House may be adjourned on Friday. On the other hand, if there should be any unforeseen delay on Thursday so as to prevent the Resolutions being passed through Committee before Friday, I am afraid we must ask the House to sit on Monday in order to receive the report. I should hope, however, after what has taken place, that we may be able to get the Resolutions passed through Committee on Thursday, in which case the House might be adjourned on Friday Until Monday the 28th.
CHINA—THE TAEPINGS.

  PAPERS MOVED FOR.
  COLONEL SYKESsaid, that he wished to state that he was not a friend of any party in China, but that he was a friend of an honest neutrality in China, and he wished to be the friend of the tax-payers of this country. In that sense alone was he connected with the Taepings in China. He understood from his hon. Friend the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs that the whole of his motion for papers would be acceded to, and therefore he would not trespass on the time of the House, further than to observe that the opinion of the House upon the policy of the Government in China would no doubt be influenced by a perusal of those papers.
  MR. LAYARDsaid, he was much obliged to his hon. and gallant Friend for

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  having confined himself to moving for the papers. There was no objection to give him any information the Foreign Office possessed on the subject. In fact, a large bulk of the papers had already been published; and if the hon. Gentleman looked back to the papers published in 1853, he would find among them the identical despatch of Sir G. Bonham for which he then moved. The only return which the Government were unable to give was the last one moved for by the hon. Gentleman. There were no British subjects in the military employment of the Tartar Government that he knew of; some idle adventurers had attached themselves to the Chinese troops but the Foreign Office had no cognizance of them, and could give no account of their proceedings.
  MR. KINNAIRDsaid, he thought if his hon. and gallant Friend had proceeded with his speech in support of his Motion, that he should have been able to show him that the movement of the Taepings which he considered so excellent, was not all he had represented it to be.
  Motion agreed to.
  Address for,
  "Copies of the Despatch of Sir George Bonham, K.C.B., dated the 30th day of April 1853, to the Taeping Authorities at Nankin, of the Answer thereto, and of any Correspondence consequent thereon:"
  "Of any Despatches or Letters, subsequent to the above Correspondence, addressed to the Taeping or other insurgent Authorities in China, and of any written Overtures by the Taeping Authorities to the British Agents to enter into friendly and commercial relations with them:"
  "Of Correspondence between Prince Kung and Mr. Bruce respecting modifications of the Treaty of Tien-Tsing, and the establishment of Customs Departments on the Yang-tsze-Kiang:"
  "Of all Communications from the Taeping Chief's on approaching Ningpo and subsequently to the capture of the city, and of Answers thereto:"
  "Of Communications from the Taeping Chiefs now threatening Shanghai, and of Answers and Proclamations consequent thereon:"
  "And, Return of the names of all British Subjects in the employment of the Tartar Government, the nature of their employment, and the amount of Salary or Fees attached to each office or situation."

WEIGHTS AND MEASURES.

  SELECT COMMITTEE MOVED FOR.
  MR. W. EWARTsaid, he rose to move for a Select Committee to consider the practicability of adopting a simple and uniform system of weights and measures, with a view not only to the benefit of our internal
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  trade, but to facilitate our trade and intercourse with foreign countries. He believed there would be no objection on the part of the Government or the House to his motion, and therefore he would not further trespass on their time.
  Motion agreed to.
  Select Committee appointed,
  "To consider the practicability of adopting a simple and uniform system of Weights and Measures, with a view not only to the benefit of our internal trade, but to facilitate our trade and intercourse with foreign countries."

DRAINAGE (IRELAND).—LEAVE.
COLONEL DICKSONsaid, he wished to move for leave to bring in a Bill for the amendment of the laws relating to the drainage of land in Ireland. As he understood there was no intention to oppose his Motion, he should not trouble the House with many observations on the subject. The necessity of some such measure was, he believed, universally admitted. For the last two years they had had sad experience of the want of an effective law of the kind. The climate of Ireland for the last few years had changed very much. Enormous quantities of rain had fallen, which seriously affected the crops, as well as the usual arrangements of the farmers. The results were a considerable diminution in the quantity of land under tillage, and in the employment of the rural population. Those circumstances had steadily increased the emigration movement, and thus tended seriously to diminish the national resources. There was also an increasing want of fuel and food. Nothing added so much to the agricultural wealth of this country and the promotion of its prosperity as a really good system of drainage. Many attempts had been made to establish an effective system of drainage in Ireland, but they all failed. A large portion of the country with which he was connected was under water during a great part of the year, and thousands of acres of hay were destroyed from the want of a proper system of drainage. In West-meath and the King's County the estimated expense of draining 15,800 acres was £45,000. The amount actually spent was £66,000, and the debt from the expenses of management, accumulation of interest, &, raised that sum to £107,000. A more simple system, worked by better machinery, in the same manner as under the Bill of last year for England, was absolutely necessary; and he should be ready, if the House allowed him to introduce this Bill,

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to explain its provision on the second reading.
Leave given.
Bill for the amendment of the Laws relating to the Drainage of Land in Ireland, ordered to be brought in by Colonel DICKSON and Colonel FRENCH.
House adjourned at Five o'clock.

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1a College of Physicians (Ireland).
3a Industrial Schools Acts (1861) Amendment.
Their Lordships met: and having gone through the business on the paper, without debate—
House adjourned at a quarter past Five o'clock, to Thursday next, a quarter before Five o'clock.