Sitting of 6 August 1861

THE GALWAY CONTRACT.

  OBSERVATIONS.
  MR. BEADYcalled attention to the Report of the Select Committee on the Galway Contract, and asked the First Lord of the Treasury what were the intentions of Her Majesty's Government as to renewing postal communication between Galway and America? He was desirous of knowing whether Her Majesty's Government would agree to restore the contract, provided the Company proved that they had steamers of sufficient power, and that they were in possession of the requisite amount of capital to fulfil it?
  LORD FERMOYwished to ask whether, in considering the question of postal communication between Ireland and the United States, the claims of the harbour of Cork will be regarded? That port was one of the most commodious in the world, and was also advantageous for its security and certainty, and he hoped it would be fairly considered by the Government before they decided upon any particular port.
  VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: On a former occasion I stated to the House the general view of Her Majesty's Government upon the question of postal communication between the United Kingdom and Worth America. I then said that I thought it was very clear that a rapid communication between the United Kingdom and Worth America, and, more especially, a communication with St. Johns, which would give facilities for telegraphic notices, would be of great advantage to the commerce of the United Kingdom. My opinion remains unchanged. I do not conceive that the advantage would be less to the United Kingdom because that communication, supposing it goes through Ireland, would be attended with benefit to that country; because I think that we ought to look at Ireland in the same manner as a large landed proprietor would look at a portion of his property, the natural resources of which were not fully developed, and with respect to which any moderate and judicious outlay of capital would amply be repaid by the increased value it would give to his estate in general. Considering, then, that Ireland has hitherto been less rich than Great Britain, and has contributed in proportion less to the revenue of the empire, I think that if it could be shown that any arrangement of this sort, while it tended to give advantage to the commerce of the United Kingdom, was also likely to develope the industry and resources of Ireland, then a double advantage would thereby be effected. That seems to be the ground on which the late Government sanctioned the contract with the Atlantic Steam Company; on which that contract was ratified by Parliament, and afterwards adopted by the present Government. The Company, however, appear unfortunately not to have possessed means adequate to carry on the service which they engaged to perform. The project, indeed, had been taken up by a very large number of people in Ireland, and that, not simply as an advantageous specu-
  1892
  lation, but as a matter of national importance, inasmuch as it was believed it would tend to develope the industry and commerce of the country. It was, therefore, with great regret that the Government felt compelled to put an end to the contract. But they deemed it to be their duty to do so because—owing, I admit, to an unfortunate concurrence of circumstances wholly beyond their own control, to disasters at sea and other accidents—the Company were unable at the time to fulfil the engagements into which they had entered. A Committee of the House has since been employed in investigating the subject, and they have reported that the Postmaster General was justified in putting an end to the contract under the circumstances which I have mentioned. They, however, concluded their Report by strongly recommending that the claims of the Company to re-employment should receive at the hands of the Government favourable consideration. Well, that being so, and being of opinion that the establishment of postal communication between Ireland and America would be of advantage to the empire at large, I should be very much disposed to adopt the recommendation of the Committee, and to give a favourable consideration to the claims of the Company whenever they may be in a position to show that the capital and shipping at their command afford a reasonable prospect of their being able to fulfil the engagements into which they may enter with the Government. Now, I am asked whether we are prepared at this moment to enter into a fresh contract with the Atlantic Company; and my answer to the question must, I am afraid, be in the negative. This is the last day of the Session, and taking into account all that has passed relative to this contract, its origin, and the course subsequently pursued with respect to it, it is, I think, quite clear that we cannot enter into a similar arrangement with the Atlantic, or any other Company, except subject to the subsequent sanction of Parliament. Well, Parliament is about to separate, and will not, I hope, meet again until the beginning of next year, and it would, therefore, it appears to me, be somewhat unseemly now to enter into an engagement which, while it would be necessary that it should be submitted to the consideration of Parliament, could not be so submitted until after the lapse of several months. All I can say is that, if when the proper time comes, the Company should be in a condition to

  1893
  show us that they hare the requisite amount of capital and machinery for performing the service across the Atlantic, and should apply for the renewal of the contract, we should look favourably on the application, and should be prepared to take it into our serious consideration with the view of submitting to Parliament any proposition founded upon it which we might deem it expedient to make. I on a former occasion stated that, while I was of opinion the establishment of such a communication as that of which I am speaking was desirable, I thought any future arrangements to effect that object should be the subject of open competition. That opinion has, however, I am bound to say, been a good deal modified by the Report of the Committee, and by what has taken place generally in reference to this matter; because, although unquestionably to resort to open competition in the ease of an entirely new contract with this or any other Company would, it seems to me, be the proper mode of proceeding, yet there is much to be said in favour of the adoption of a different course in a case bearing on the interests of a vast number of persons of various classes who have invested their small savings in an enterprise which has been sanctioned by two Governments and by a Resolution of the House of Commons. Strong reasons, at all events, might be advanced for giving a Company so situated the first offer on such terms as might be deemed sufficiently advantageous. Now, assuming that when the proper time arrives arrangements should be made between the Government and this Company, then comes the question raised by my noble Friend the Member for Marylebone (Lord Fermoy) as to the port of departure on which it would be desirable to fix. That, no doubt, is a point which is deserving of consideration; but whether Gal way, which in a geographical point of view appears to be the most central and proper port for the purpose, or Cork, or Foynes, which possess advantages of their own, ought to be selected, is, after all, simply a question of practical detail, on which when the time to come to a decision on the matter arrives due weight will, I can assure my noble Friend, be given by the Government to the various circumstances which may recommend the selection of one port rather than another.
  COLONEL FBENCH, not deeming the answer of the noble Lord quite satisfactory, said, he should next Session take an
  1894
  opportunity of asking the opinion of the House as to whether the conduct of the Postmaster General in putting an end to the contract was justifiable or not.

AMERICAN DUES.—QUESTION.
MR. WYLDsaid, he wished to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, If Her Majesty's Government have received any communication from the President of the United States, or from the British Ambassador at Washington, that it is the intention of the Government of the United States to station vessels off the Ports of the Southern States of America, to collect and levy Duties upon Foreign Merchandize?
VISCOUNT PALMERSTON:—Sir, the Federal Congress have passed a Bill into a law empowering the President, if he should think fit, to do what my hon. Friend says; namely, to station vessels off certain ports in the Southern States for the purpose of their collecting Customs Duties upon goods coming in. My hon. Friend will be aware that this proceeding, if it should be adopted, would be practically a supercession of the blockade, because you cannot blockade a port to prevent ships from entering, and at the same time levy Customs Duties on the assumption that the port is open. "We have not yet been informed what are the intentions of the President with regard to the matter, or which of the two modes he will pursue.

BREECH-LOADING RIFLES.

  QUESTION.
  COLONEL DUNNEsaid, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for War, Whether any and what steps have been taken as to a decision on the merits of new weapons of war; and whether any breech-loading rifle has been adopted for any branch of our service?
  SIR GEOEGE LEWISsaid, he could reply to the first question of the hon. and gallant Member in the affirmative; and, in answer to the second, that breech-loading carbines had been served out to a portion of the cavalry; but they had not been found to be very successful, and that the making of some improvements in them was a subject under consideration.

  PAUPER CHILDREN.—QUESTION.
  MR. COBBETTsaid, he rose to ask the President of the Poor Law Board, Whether he is aware of any applications

  1895
  having been made by Master Manufacturers of the Northern and Midland Districts to Boards of Guardians of London to send parish poor children as apprentices into such districts?
  SIR GEORGE GREYsaid, he had made inquiry at the Poor Law Board, and found that communications had been received on the subject. The correspondence relating to it was now in print, and would, in conjunction with some Returns with respect to it, which had been moved for in the other House of Parliament, be published in the course of a few days.

ARMING NEAPOLITAN BRIGANDS.

  QUESTION.
  MR. DARBY GRIFFITHsaid, he would beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether the Government has received accounts that 30,000 muskets, which had been taken by the French authorities from Neapolitan troops escaping into the Roman territory from before Gaeta, during the siege of that place, have been allowed by the French to be made use of in arming the bands of Brigands and Bourbonists which have been organized within the Papal territory for invasion of the Southern Provinces of Italy?
  VISCOUNT PALMERSTONreplied that when the Neapolitan troops retired from the siege at Gaeta into the Papal territory they were disarmed by the French, in accordance with the usual course taken when troops entered a neutral territory. The arms had been handed over to the Papal Government, as the Government of the country in which the disarmament took place. Any subsequent distribution of such arms, therefore, must have been by the Papal and not by the French Government. If the hon. Member asked his (Viscount Palmerston's) belief on the matter he had no objection to saying that it was his opinion that a large quantity of those arms had been given to persons sent into the Neapolitan territory for the purpose of creating a disturbance and committing atrocities, but that that had anything to do with the French authorities was entirely out of the question.

SPAIN AND BRITISH SUBJECTS.

  QUESTION.
  MR. BLAKEsaid, he wished to ask, Whether a remonstrance will be addressed
  1896
  to the Spanish Government respecting the treatment of a British subject (the owner of the cargo of the Roman ship Mio Zio) at Port Mahon, with the connivance of the Spanish authorities, as detailed in correspondence to the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs?
  VISCOUNT PALMERSTONsaid, remonstrances had been made on the subject, and the case was now under the consideration of the Spanish Courts of Law, and our Chargé d' Affaires had orders to watch the proceedings.

  IRISH BUSINESS.—OBSERVATIONS.
  MR. VINCENT SCULLYrose to call the attention of the House to the acts and omissions of Her Majesty's Government during the present Session, especially as regards Ireland, and to move for a Return specifying the names of all Chief Secretaries for Ireland from the year 1830 to the present time, and the dates of their acceptance of and retirement from office respectively. The hon. Gentleman was proceeding to address the House when—

  PROROGATION OF PARLIAMENT.
  Message to attend the LORDS COMMISSIONERS.
  The House went, and the ROYAL ASSENT was given to several Bills: And afterwards a Speech of the LORDS COMMISSIONERS was delivered to both Houses by the LORD CHANCELLOR.
  Then a Commission for Proroguing the Parliament was read.
  After which
  THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid:
  My Lords and Gentlemen,
  By virtue of Her Majesty's Commission, under the Great Seal, to us and other Lords directed, and now read, we do, in Her Majesty's Name, and in obedience to Her Commands, prorogue this Parliament to Tuesday the Twenty-second Day of October next, to be then here holden; and this Parliament is accordingly prorogued to Tuesday the Twenty-second Day of October next.

MINUTES.
Took the Oath.—The Right Honourable Sir Maurice Frederick Fitzhardinge Berkeley, having been created Baron Fitzhardinge.
Royal Assent.—Consolidated Fund (Appropriation; Annoyance Jurors (Westminster); Copyright of Designs; East India (High Courts of Judicature; County Voters (Scotland); Leases, &c. by Incumbents Restriction; Portpatrick Harbour (Scotland); Enlistment in India; Indemnity; Parochial and Burgh Schools (Scotland); Tramways (Ireland) Act Amendment; Naval Medical Supplemental Fund Society; Salmon Fisheries; Dealers in Old Metals; Probates and Letters of Administration Act (Ireland) Amendment; Appropriation of Seats (Sudbury and Saint Albans); Municipal Corporations Act Amendment; Removal of Irish Poor; Windsor Suspended Canonries; Trustees (Scotland); Conjugal Rights (Scotland); Public Works (Ireland); Industrial Schools; Wills of Personalty by British Subjects; Statute Law Revision; Government of the Navy; Bankruptcy and Insolvency; Accessories and Abettors; Criminal Statutes Repeal; Larceny, &c.; Malicious Injuries to Property; Forgery; Coinage Offences; Offences against the Person; Public Works and Harbours; Lord Clerk Register Salary Abolition; Durham University; Metropolitan Building Act Amendment; Public Offices Site; Pensions, British Force (India); Edinburgh University; Inland Revenue; Stamp Duties on Probates, &c,; Revenue Departments Accounts; Metropolis Gas Act Amendment; Lace Factories; Gunpowder, &c. Act Amendment; Episcopal and Capitular Estates Act Continuance, &c.; East India Loan (No. 2.); Militia Pay; Militia Ballots Suspension; Wills and Domicile of British Subjects Abroad, &c.; Corrupt Practices Prevention Act (1854) Continuance; Landed Estates (Ireland) Act (1858) Amendment; Metropolitan Police District Receiver; Parochial Offices; Volunteer Tolls Exemption (No. 2.); Treasury Chest Fund; Local Government Supplemental (No. 2.); Officers of Reserve (Royal Navy); Industrial Schools (Scotland); Drainage of Land.

THE GALWAY PACKET SERVICE.
THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDEwished to put a Question to the noble Lord at the head of the Postal Depart-
1884
ment, of which he had already given notice, and he hoped some positive answer would be given with regard to the intentions of the Government respecting the postal communication from the port of Galway to the North American colonies. They had been told in that House that they must wait for the answer of the Government until the Committee to which the matter had been referred had made their Report. The Committee had made its Report, the time for which the Prime Minister asked to consider their recommendations had been granted, and it would now be rather strange if Parliament were allowed to separate without any statement of the intentions of Government. If the Government could be supposed to be animated by the most deadly spirit of enmity towards the Galway Packet Company, they could adopt no measure more directly calculated to injure and crush it than by leaving in uncertainty the course which they would ultimately pursue. The Company were not only restrained from pushing their operations with vigour, and from adding to their fleet, but if ultimately no contract were to be granted or revived for establishing a direct postal service between Galway and America, it would be better that the affairs of the Company should at once be wound up. It was notorious that ever since the suspension of the contract the Company had been put to great expense—he would not say in consequence of any promise or engagement, but by the hopes which had been held out that a valuable contract would once more be given to them. In consequence of those inducements a sum of from £50,000 to £60,000 had been expended in the preparation of vessels. Of the whole of this money the shareholders will have been unfairly deprived through the delay of the Government in pronouncing its decision, if eventually that decision should prove unfavourable to their interests. In justice, not only to the shareholders but to the people of Ireland, who felt deeply interested in this question, he hoped their Lordships would receive from the Treasury bench a distinct statement of what the intentions of the Government were, and what the Company had to expect.
LORD MONTEAGLEsaid, that before his noble Friend the Postmaster General gave any reply to the Question which had been put to him, he wished to call their Lordships' attention to one point which the noble Marquess had overlooked. This subject had been discussed in the other

1885
House of Parliament, where naturally a money question should first be agitated; and the answer then given by a Member of Her Majesty's Government in effect was that the Government were not indisposed to take into their consideration, and, if they thought fit, to submit to the House of Commons, a proposal for establishing a communication between Ireland and America which should he founded upon open competition, and which upon consideration might appear well calculated to answer all the required purposes. He would remind their Lordships that in the report of a Commission on the Packet Service drawn up and presented to Parliament his noble Friend's eminent predecessor (Earl Canning) laid down a rule that, to prevent favouritism to any party, there should be established the principle of open competition for postal contracts. In the case of Galway that wise and just rule had been set aside. The Galway contract did not now exist. It had been put an end to by his noble Friend the Postmaster General, and that decision had been approved be the Ministry at large. Under those circumstances he trusted the Government would, in conformity with Lord Canning's Report, with Lord Palmerston's declaration, and with sound principle and usage, make the future contract a matter, not of favour, but of open competition.
LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLRYsaid, that when the noble Marquess asked him a similar question on a former accasion, he was not prepared to express any decided opinion on the part of the Government in regard to the proceedings which were then taking place before the Select Committee. That Committee had since reported, and the result of the evidence taken before the Committee and their Report was that, under the circumstances of the case, the Government were justified in putting an end to the contract, as the Company were in a total state of inability to perform its conditions. At the same time the Committee stated that there were circumstances which undoubtedly entitled the Company to favourable consideration, and they expressed an opinion that it would be desirable, if the Company were in a competent condition to continue the contract, that the matter should be reconsidered on a future occasion. The Chairman of the Company, in his evidence before the Committee, distinctly stated that under no circumstances would the Company be prepared to resume the contract until Feb-
1886
ruary 1, 1862, and he also stated his opinion to be that the contract could not be conducted with advantage without a considerable departure from the terms originally granted by the Government and accepted by the Company. As he bad already stated, the Committee were of opinion that, under the circumstances of the Company and the unfortunate accidents that had occurred, they were entitled to the favourable consideration of the Government. Her Majesty's Government were disposed to give every consideration in their power to the recommendations of the Committee, if at the end of the year, when the proposed time came for renewing the contract, the Company showed they were in a situation faithfully to continue it in conformity with all the conditions of the contract, particularly as to speed, and carrying the mails to St. Johns. As, however, it was impossible for the contract to he entered into until February, 1862, by which time Parliament would have met, it was out of the power of the Government to give any decided or positive opinion, although there was every disposition to deal with the Company as favourably as possible, and to receive any representations they might make as to their position and their ability to fulfil the contract.

PROROGATION OF THE PARLIAMENT.

  SPEECH OF THE LORDS COMMISSIONERS.
  THE PARLIAMENTwas this day prorogued by Commission.
  THE LORDS COMMISSINERS— namely, THE LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord Westbury); THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (Earl Granville); The Lord Steward (The Earl of St. Germans); THE LORD CHAMBERLAIN (Viscount Sydney); and THE LORD MONTEAGLE OF BRANDON—being in their robes, and seated on a Form placed between the Throne and the Woolsack; and the COMMINS being come with their Speaker, the ROYAL ASSENT was given to several Rills.
  Then The LORD CHANCELLOR delivered the Speech of the LORDS COMMISSIONERS as follows:—
  " My Lords, and Gentlemen,
  " We are commanded by Her Majesty to release you from further Attendance in Parliament, and at the same Time to convey to you Her Ma-

  1887
  jesty's Acknowledgments for the Zeal and Assiduity with which you have applied yourselves to the Performance of your Duties during the Session of Parliament now brought to a Close.
  "HER Majesty commands us to inform you, that Her Relations with Foreign Powers are friendly and satisfactory, and Her Majesty trusts that there is no Danger of any Disturbance of the Peace of Europe.
  "THW Progress of Events in Italy has led to the Union of the greater Part of that Peninsula in One Monarchy under King Victor Emmanuel. Her Majesty has, throughout, abstained from any active Interference in the Transactions which have led to this Result, and Her earnest Wish as to these Affairs is, that they may be settled in the Manner best suited to the Welfare and Happiness of the Italian People.
  "THE Dissensions which arose some Months ago in the United States of North America have, Unfortunately, assumed the Character of open War. Her Majesty, deeply lamenting this calamitous Result, has determined, in common with the other Powers of Europe, to preserve a strict Neutrality between the contending Parties.
  "HER Majesty commands us to inform you that the Measures adopted for the Restoration of Order and Tranquillity in Syria, in virtue of Conventions between Her Majesty, The Emperor of Austria, The Emperor of the French, The King of Prussia, The Emperor of Russia, and The Sultan, having accomplished their Purpose, the European Troops which, in pursuance of those Conventions, were for a Time stationed in Syria to co-operate with the Troops and Authorities of The
  1888
  Sultan, have been withdrawn; and Her Majesty trusts that the Arrangements which have been made for the Administration of the Districts which had been disturbed will henceforth secure their internal Tranquillity.
  "HER Majesty has seen with Satisfaction the rapid Improvement in the internal Condition of Her East Indian Territories, and the Progress which has been made towards equalizing the Revenue and Expenditure of that part of Her Empire.
  "Gentlemen of the House of Commons,
  "HER Majesty commands us to convey to you Her warm Acknowledgments for the liberal Supplies which you have granted for the Service of the present Year; and Her Majesty has seen with Satisfaction that, after amply providing for the Wants of the Public Service, you have been able to make a sensible Diminution in the Taxes levied upon Her People.
  "My Lords, and Gentlemen,
  "HER Majesty commands us to express to you the deep Gratification with which She has witnessed the Spirit of devoted Patriotism which continues to animate Her Volunteer Forces, and the Admiration with which She has observed their rapid Progress in Discipline and Military Efficiency.
  "HER Majesty has given Her cordial Assent to the Act for completing the Number of the Members of the House of Commons by allotting the forfeited Seats of Sudbury and Saint Albans.
  "HER Majesty trusts that the Act for improving the Laws relating to

  1889
  Bankruptcy and Insolvency will be productive of important Advantage to the Trade and Commerce of Her Subjects.
  "HER Majesty has given Her ready Assent to Acts for consolidating and assimilating the Criminal Law of England and Ireland, and for promoting the Revision of the Statute Law.
  "HER Majesty has given Her Assent to important Acts which She trusts will have the Effect of opening more largely Employment in the Public Service to the European and Native Inhabitants of India, of improving the Means of Legislation, of furthering the Ends of Justice, and of promoting the Contentment and Well-being of all Classes of Her Majesty's Indian Subjects.
  "HER Majesty has assented with Pleasure to the Act for the Improvement of Harbours on the Coast of the United Kingdom, and for relieving Merchant Shipping from Passing Tolls, and also to the Act for improving the Administration of the Law relating to the Relief and the Removal of the Poor.
  "HER Majesty trusts that the Act for rendering more easy Arrangements connected with the Drainage of Land will assist Agricultural Improvements in many Parts of the United Kingdom.
  "Her Majesty has gladly given Her Assent to many other Measures of public Usefulness, the Results of your Labours during the Session now brought to its Close.
  "HER Majesty has observed, with heartfelt Satisfaction, the Spirit of Loyalty, of Order, and of Obedience to the Law, which prevails throughout all Her Dominions; and She trusts
  1890
  that by wise Legislation, and a just Administration of the Law, the Continuance of this happy State of Things will be secured.
  "ON returning to your respective Counties you will still have important public Duties to perform; and Her Majesty fervently prays that the Blessing of Almighty God may attend your Exertions, and may guide them to the Attainment of the Objects of Her Majesty's constant Solicitude—the Welfare and Happiness of Her People."
  Then a Commission for proroguing the Parliament was read.
  After which
  THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid;
  My Lords and Gentlemen,
  By virtue of Her Majesty's Commission, under the Great Seal, to us and other Lords directed, and now read, we do, in Her Majesty's Name, and in obedience to Her Commands, prorogue this Parliament to Tuesday, the Twenty-second Day of October next, to be then here holden; and this Parliament is accordingly prorogued to Tuesday, the Twenty-second Day of October next.