Sitting of 8 May 1856

HER MAJESTY'S ANSWER TO THE AD DRESS ON THE TREATY OF PEACE.
MR. SPEAKER reported HER MAJESTY'S Answer to the Address, as follows:—
"I THANK you for this loyal and dutiful Address.
"I GRATEFULLY acknowledge the zealous and cordial co-operation of My People in the prosecution of the late War, and the firm and uniform support by which you have enabled Me, in conjunction with My Allies, to conduct it to a satisfactory and honourable conclusion.
"WHILE it is most gratifying to Me to know that the resources of this Empire remain unimpaired, I heartily concur with you in the hope that, under the favour of Divine Providence, a Peace based on the common interests of Europe may be long continued, and may promote and secure the welfare and prosperity of My People, and the civilisation and happiness of mankind."

MESSAGE FROM THE QUEEN—MAJOR GENERAL SIR W. F. WILLIAMS, K.C.B.
Message from HER. MAJESTY, brought up, and read by Mr. SPEAKER (all the Members being uncovered), as follows:—
"VICTORIA R.
"HER MAJESTY, being desirous of conferring a signal Mark of Her Favour and Approbation on Major-General Sir William Fenwick Williams, K.C.B., for the eminent and distinguished Services rendered by him as Her Majesty's Commissioner at the Head Quarters of the Turkish Army
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in Asia, and particularly in the gallant Defence of Kars, recommends it to the House of Commons to enable Her Majesty to make Provision for securing to Sir William Fenwick Williams a Pension of One Thousand Pounds per annum, for the Term of his natural Life.
"V.R."
Committee thereupon To-morrow.

OPERATIONS OF THE LATE WAR— THANKS TO THE ARMY AND NAVY.
VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: I rise, Sir, in pursuance of the notice which I have given, to propose to this House to return its thanks and to express its acknowledgments for the great and eminent services performed by that portion of the Army and Navy which was engaged in the operations of the war; and for the zeal and merit of the Embodied Militia at home and abroad during the period in which we have been engaged in hostilities. Sir, it was natural that a nation, on the termination of a successful war and on the conclusion of an honourable and satisfactory peace, should be led by its first impulse to the temples of religious worship, in order to render thanks to that Almighty Power which directed and favoured our arms during the war, and which has blessed our councils in the negotiations for peace. The next duty which is incumbent on the country is to return its thanks and to express its acknowledgments to those brave and gallant men who have, under the blessing of Divine Providence, been the instruments by which our success in war has been accomplished, and the conditions of peace have been obtained. It is the peculiar privilege of a free people that, upon occasions on which the national gratitude has to be expressed, they are entitled, as by right, to participate with the Crown in the expression of the national feeling. In other countries, which are not so fortunate in their institutions as we are, those honourable expressions of gratitude are confined to the Sovereign alone; and the brave men who have perilled their lives or wasted their constitutions in the service of their country have not the additional satisfaction of knowing that, in conjunction with the approbation of the Sovereign, they receive the grateful and heartfelt thanks of their country. Sir, the value of that co-operation of the Crown

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and the people is well known and cannot be over estimated. We all remember the remarkable expression of that gallant hero, Nelson, who going into action exclaimed, "Now for Westminster Abbey or the House of Lords," thereby anticipating the co-operation of the Crown and of Parliament for those acknowledgments of the services which he might be considered to deserve. If, then, the hopes of such reward are a consolation even to those men who think that their lives may not be spared to enable them to enjoy it themselves, how much more is it grateful to those who anticipate that they may themselves live and receive the acknowledgments and thanks of a grateful country. Sir, there never was a war in which the brave Army and Navy of England better deserved the thanks of their country than the war in which we have lately been engaged. There have, it is true, been wars much longer in duration and more diversified by great events; there have been wars in which greater battles have been fought, and in which operations have been conducted on a larger scale; but there have been few wars attended with results more important, and there have been none in which those various qualities which, perhaps, in a peculiar degree, belong to Englishmen have been more nobly displayed. There has never been a war in which our brave men have had better or more frequent opportunities of displaying that impetuous courage in attack and that irresistible intrepidity in defence, combined with that power of enduring privations and all those other qualities which adorn our soldiers and our sailors, than in the war which we have just terminated.
Sir, when the war began, in March, 1854, there sailed from the shores of this country a gallant band of about 10,000 men. At that time the anticipations of the country did not, I think, go beyond the idea of fortifying the Dardanelles and protecting Constantinople. Few men at that time imagined that that gallant band would be increased in amount to the force at which the Army in the East now stands. Few ever expected that that little band would by successive augmentations accomplish the great results which have crowned its labours. Gradually, however, was that small band swelled by fresh instalments from this country, until that noble Army was formed which has accomplished such deeds of bravery; it was like the cloud in eastern climes which,
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at first no larger than a man's hand on the distant horizon, gradually overspreads the canopy of Heaven, and bursts with a power that nothing is able to resist. That band of 10,000 men has been multiplied by ten, for there are now under the command of the British general in the Crimea forces amounting to no less than 100,000 men; and had the war continued the results of their operations, would, I am persuaded, have contributed still further to justify that Vote of thanks which it is now my duty to propose. The events of the war are too well known to require any detailed recapitulation on the part of any one discharging the duty which now devolves upon me. It is well known that that gallant army, after a temporary sojourn upon the coast of European Turkey, when it was found that by the cessation of the siege of Silistria no immediate necessity for its continuing any longer in that position, was transferred, in conjunction with that of our Allies, to the coast of the Crimea. Every Member of this House recollects the glorious battle of the Alma. Every one remembers the daring intrepidity with which, led by that gallant soldier—that hero, as I will call him, whose loss we all lament—Lord Raglan, the British Army, in conjunction with that of our Allies, who, side by side with them, equally shared their dangers, notwithstanding the resistance of the enemy, carried heights which might have been deemed impregnable when held by the soldiers who then defended them. Not long after that battle—after the flank-march had taken place and the siege of Sebastopol was begun—came another battle equally severe—I mean the battle of Inkerman. It is, I must say, a remarkable circumstance that those two battles, following each other so closely as they did, should have brought so prominently into sight the best qualities of the British soldier, for while, on the one hand, the battle of the Alma proved that nothing could resist the rush of British troops, that no enemy could maintain a position, however strong, against the intrepid dash of a British Army; so, on the other hand, the battle of Inkerman showed that a British Army, placed to defend a position, is always able, by whatever troops it may be attacked, and however they may be superior in number, by the stern resolution and the steadiness of the British character to maintain that position against any troops which may be brought against it. That

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defence at Inkerman reminds me of an incident at Waterloo, when an officer who asked the Duke of Wellington, whose position was threatened by an overpowering force of cavalry, what he intended to do, received the simple answer, "I don't mean to budge from here to-night."
So again at Inkerman no power that was brought against them was able to dispossess the British from the position which they held. Then again, Sir, there was that memorable battle of Balaklava—a battle in which all arms had an opportunity of distinguishing themselves. At that battle the gallant 93rd, when charged by a large body of cavalry and disdaining the ordinary tactics of forming into a square, and without any recourse to any of those operations to which infantry usually resort in order to repel the attack of cavalry, stood in extended line, and by their steady fire repelled the attacking force. In that battle the cavalry had also the opportunity of showing of what British cavalry are capable. The charge of the heavy cavalry, which cut through the Russian battlions, was one of the most glorious achievements of the war, and was attended with complete success. The charge of the light cavalry, unfortunately not successful—and the circumstances of the case were such that it could not have been expected to be successful—was one of the most heroic enterprises ever undertaken. It was an enterprise of which the countrymen of the brave men who undertook it may well be proud, and one which will live in the record of history as long as the memory of those days shall survive. There were also two other memorable occasions on which the British Army displayed its heroic courage, and of which the English people may well be proud—I mean the two assualts on the Redan on the 18th of June and the 8th of September. Those attacks were, it is true, not attended with success, and, indeed, it was hardly possible that they could succeed, but I think that no man can fail in admiring the daring courage which led those brave men to traverse an open space of 250 yards exposed to the most murderous fire of cannon, of musketry, and of everything which could be used to deter an enemy from proceeding in his attack; and in spite of all the difficulty and dangers to which they were exposed—dangers which would have made any other men quail—they went on, and the survivors, while their comrades were falling by hundreds around
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them, nobly performed their duty and entered the enemy's fortifications; and I am sure that even though they were not able to maintain that position, they could not have obtained greater glory than they did.
Then, again, the events of the war have brought into play those qualities which I think that the people of this country peculiarly possess. Bravery in action is a quality which we do not pretend to monopolise; it is a quality which is shared by other nations, and, while we are proud of it ourselves, we honour and respect it in others. But the power of endurance, the power of submitting to privations and silent sufferings, is, perhaps, a quality still more to be admired, as being, perhaps, less general than the quality that boldly leads men to face danger, and that quality our Army has had ample opportunities of displaying. All must remember the accounts, unhappily too true, of the privations which, during that dreary Crimean winter—notwithstanding all the efforts which were made by the Government at home, and notwithstanding the fact that large quantities of those things which were essential to the well-being and comfort of the troops were almost within their reach, though, unfortunately unavailable, from a want of arrangement, perhaps necessarily incidental to the first beginning of operations upon so large a scale, at so great a distance, and after so long a period of peace—were endured by our brave troops. At that time they were called upon to perform a duty which has seldom or never befallen an army in the field. They had to carry on siege operations of a most difficult character. As a general rule, when a large army invests a fortress, however large the fortress may be, its garrison is limited in extent, and its weakness is known to the besieging force. It is generally a matter of scientific calculation at what period a breach may be made, and the superior attacking army place itself in personal conflict with the inferior army within the town; but the siege of Sebastopol was of a totally different character. There were two Armies equal in number, or if there were any difference at the commencement of the siege, perhaps the Army of the enemy was the larger of the two, and throughout the whole of the siege operations the garrison had an open communication with the rear, and reinforcements were perpetually pouring in from the interior. The position of the enemy precluded

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battle in the field, and our Army had therefore to carry on the operations of the siege, not against, a limited fortress and garrison, but against the whole military power of the Russian Empire. The operations of a siege so conducted necessarily imposed on our brave and gallant troops an amount of fatigue, followed by sickness, which has seldom occurred, for so long a period, in the military history of the world. Our men bore their sufferings with the same steadiness with which at Alma they scaled and carried the heights of the enemy, and with which at Inker-man they bore the brunt of that bloody field, and defended their own position; and to the honour of the British soldier be it said, that in the long course of those operations they displayed, not only courage and endurance, but that generosity which belongs also, I am proud to say, to the character of our countrymen. It is well known that many a private soldier, whose health had been impaired by his services, who ought to have gone into hospital, and was advised to do so, refused to avail himself of the permission, or to comply with the order, because he said, "If I go into hospital the duty will fall heavier upon my comrades, who are as little able to bear it as myself. I will go on as long as I can, and I will share with them the difficulties and dangers, whatever they may be." The history of this war amply illustrates the well-known adage that,—
"Noble actions may as well be done
By weaver's issue as by prince's son."
The private soldiers were distinguished by every quality which gives dignity to human nature, while of the conduct of their officers it is impossible to say too much. Such, then, having been the bearing of our brave soldiers, without entering into any further details, I think that you will readily concur that there cannot be a fitter occasion upon which this House, as the organ of the national sentiment, should express its thanks and convey its acknowledgments to those brave men who have thus earned the gratitude of their country.
Sir, regarding the great and glorious deeds of those who survive, it is impossible not to remember with feelings of regret those of whose services the country has been deprived. We have lost many a brave and gallant officer, and many a brave and gallant man. Some have perished in the field of battle; others have fallen, not less in the service of
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their country, by the wasting effects of fatigue and disease. But those who have suffered private losses must, at least, have the consolation of thinking, whether their gallant relatives fell in the field of battle or by wasting disease, that they are equally entitled to the gratitude and admiration of their countrymen, and that their names will equally live in the fond and proud recollection of England. We lost, in the first place, that great man—for so on account of his noble qualities and noble conduct may he well be called—Lord Raglan. He had reached a time of life when, without any disparagement to himself, he might have declined the active service proposed to him. He held high and important official situations here. He had won his spurs in former wars, by the side of his great Commander and friend, the Duke of Wellington. He was of an age when men are generally considered exempt from active duty, but, having devoted all his life to the public service, he would not shrink at the last from the call which his Sovereign and his country thought proper to make upon him. He fell a sacrifice to the performance of his duties. I am convinced that the only feeling of regret which crossed his mind at the last moment of his life was, that he had not had the good fortune to fall in the field of battle—the dangers of which he had often so bravely and freely encountered—and the consolation to breathe his last in the front of an enemy, rather than in the manner in which it pleased Providence to remove him. Sir, we cannot sufficiently lament those other gallant Generals who fell in the course of this war. We lost Cathcart, Goldie, Strangways, Torrens—aye! Tor-rens, for though he did not die in the Crimea, he sank under wounds received there. We also lost Adams, Yea, Shad-forth, Estcourt, Sir John Campbell, and other names which belong to the same catalogue of brave officers; but it must be a satisfaction to the families and friends of those men that, though by the will of Heaven they were taken, they died in a noble cause, maintaining the honour of their country and their own dignity. Sir, though our losses are deeply to be deplored, yet, upon the whole, taking into consideration the great difficulties which our Army had to encounter, the various battles they have fought, the different services on which they have been employed, it cannot be said that the number is greater than might inevitably have been expected. The whole

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amount of casualties of all kinds in the course of the war—that is to say, the whole number withdrawn from the Army by death in the field, by death in hospital, or by discharges under various circumstances, amounts to 22,457, of which the number killed in action was comparatively small. I do not mean to underrate the value and magnitude of those losses. At the same time, when we compare the disasters of war with those calamities to which all nations are subject—with the sweeping scourge of pestilence, for example, which may often be averted or mitigated by the aids of science, although they are not sufficiently employed for that purpose—it must be remembered that one epidemic sweeps away far more men than those I have enumerated, and we may be thankful that the war has been concluded without a greater sacrifice of the lives of our countrymen. It has been said that in peace sons bury their fathers, and in war fathers bury their sons; but it cannot be impressed too much upon our minds that there are calamities which sweep away both fathers and sons, and leave mothers, widows, and orphans deploring their loss, and reduced to wretchedness and poverty—calamities which may be often averted and mitigated, as I have just said, by the application of scientific means within our power. I, therefore, say we have reason to be thankful that, under Divine Providence, our losses have not been greater. Now, Sir, what has been the loss of our enemy? I say, upon authority which I believe to be good, that on the heights surrounding Sebastopol 90,000 Russians lie buried beneath the soil; and that the Russian Army, from one cause or another, lost during the war no less than 500,000 men. I say it not with any object of exultation. It increases the regret that the war should have been forced upon us; but it may have been one instrument by which the peace was brought about; and we have reason to be thankful that in prosecuting a just and necessary war to so successful a result, we have done so at an amount of loss so much less than that of our opponent.
Sir, in this war the Navy had not the same opportunity which the Army had of obtaining brilliant distinction in battle. The enemy with whom we had to contend had occupied himself during many a long year, and spent a large portion of the revenues of his empire in creating an immense fleet as well as a large Army. The mere presence of the British fleet,
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however, was alone sufficient to deter the enemy's fleet from acting. Neither in the Baltic nor the Black Sea have our gallant sailors had an opportunity of encountering, face to face, the fleets which the Russian Government had prepared. But in the Black Sea our sailors contributed immensely to the success of our military operations. Not content with assisting by every possible effort the operations of the Army, we all know a naval brigade was established on shore—blue jackets fighting in the trenches with red coats— and nothing could exceed the harmony of co-operation, except, perhaps, the intrepidity with which that co-operation was supported. I should not omit to mention that in the Black Sea the operations of our Army were greatly assisted by the daring exploits of our Navy in the Sea of Azoff. Of that sea we had no practical knowledge. Its dangers and difficulties were increased by the want of water; but in that sea our active and enterprising sailors performed exploits of the utmost value to the Army, and which fully entitle them to the thanks of this House. Sir, we might have extended the sphere of our operations in the Black Sea by taking a wider range. We might have laid in ashes Odessa, but it was thought most proper not to do so. It was felt that Odessa was no military or naval fortress, and that its destruction would have inflicted an enormous amount of misery upon a harmless and inoffensive population; so that that which was made a matter of reproach against our Navy for a want of enterprise was the result of a determination to which we must all look back with satisfaction. Sir, in the Baltic, in the first year of our operations my hon. and gallant Friend (Sir Charles Napier), whom I name not as a Member of this House, but as a naval commander, accomplished a most difficult and important operation, in conjunction with our French Allies. He found his way though the intricate navigation that led to Bomarsund, and then, in conjunction with the land forces, in the shortest time levelled the fortress to the ground. That was an exploit which did great credit to the naval skill of my hon. and gallant Friend, and it likewise was attended with the most important results; because, if that expedition had not been undertaken, and if Bomarsund had not fallen, we might not have been entitled to stipulate in the treaty that there should no longer be any fortifications or naval establishments in the

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Aland Isles. That stipulation is of great importance to Sweden, and to the balance of power in the Worth of Europe, and for that we are mainly indebted to the exploit of my hon. and gallant Friend Sir Charles Napier. Well, Sir, in the succeeding campaign an exploit not less brilliant, not less important, and not less difficult, was accomplished by Admiral Dundas in the destruction of the great arsenal of Swea-borg. That exploit deserves to receive a high place in the naval records of this country. It was an enterprise conducted with great skill and with complete success, and would have been attended with further consequences if it had not been that those engines of war which had been supplied would not stand the repeated vise of them which was necessary, and that the season was too far advanced to send an additional supply of mortars to the fleet, although those mortars were ready and would have been sent but for the advanced state of the season. Sir, our gallant sailors, then, are not less entitled than our gallant soldiers to the thanks and admiration of their countrymen.
With regard to them, and with regard to the Army, it must be a source of satisfaction to this country to think that, having started with an Army and Navy on a peace establishment, this country has been able so rapidly to develope her military and naval resources. I do not say this to the praise of this Government or that, for it is to the nation that the merit belongs—to the determined and inflexible courage of the people of this country, who resolved that no efforts should be wanting, that no supplies should be withheld, that no exertions should be spared, to carry on the war with the utmost vigour and success. But it is a proud fact, which will be recorded in the history of Europe, that England, having begun the war with a small Army, and comparatively a small Navy, at the end of two years of exertion, notwithstanding the waste of war, notwithstanding the difficulties of the time required for placing her establishments on a war footing, was able so rapidly to increase her naval and military force, that, having begun the war with a force of 120,000 men in all parts of the world, yet, at the end of the war, we had an Army in the Mediterranean under our Generals, including the foreign corps and the Turkish Contingent, of upwards of 110,000 men; and that, having begun the war with a fleet of comparatively
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small amount, we ended the war, and were enabled to present at Spithead the spectacle of such a fleet as called forth from the Earl of Derby the eulogy that "No country ever possessed so mighty a naval armament." Sir, we had at the beginning of the war a total amount of 212 ships, and at the end of the war we have 590. Sir, when I mention this augmentation of our military and naval force, it is due to those who are not employed in political situations or in distinguished military service—it is due to that great body of men who are employed in the civil service of this country to do them the justice to say that they deserve the thanks of the country for the great exertions made by them to complete the great additions both to the Army and Navy of this country. Sir, that Army in the Crimea has required immense supplies of every article and material connected with military operations. It has required ammunition of every kind, military stores, clothing, fuel, and every sort of supply. There are some military men in this House who are better able than we civilians to estimate the exertions requisite for supplying an army with everything that is necessary. But any man who will give his mind to the subject will see that, without the greatest exertions, without the utmost energy on the part of all the members of the civil administration engaged in supplying the different things that an army requires, it would be impossible that our Army should be in the condition in which it now is. I will quote Lord Hardinge, who said that "Our Army now in the Crimea is in such a condition, as no army ever before could be said to surpass." Sir, the health of that Army is the admiration of all those who have seen it. That excellent health could only be produced by those detailed arrangements of sanitary and commissariat supply of all kinds which are so essential to the comfort and health of the soldiers and officers, and which are necessary to provision an Army at such a distance, and those exertions are highly meritorious on the part of the gentlemen employed in these services. In the same manner, Sir, with regard to the fleet. My right hon. Friend the First Lord of the Admiralty, however great may be his energy and untiring application of the duties of his office, could never have produced such an augmentation of force if he had not been seconded by all the departments of the

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naval service under him, by all the subordinate officers, by the labourers and artisans of the dockyards—aye, and if he had not been seconded, also, as he had stated, by the private builders of the country, it would have been impossible for him to raise the Navy to the pitch of force such as it now occupies.
Well, Sir, we cannot forget, on the present occasion, the great services rendered by the Militia of the country. Sir, we must remember that that force is composed of men who are enlisted for the home defence of the country, and that it is officered by gentlemen of the country who are generally occupied with other duties and other engagements. But I am bound to say that, when that force was embodied, as great a devotion to the public service was displayed by both officers and men as was shown by any branch of the military and naval service of the country. When Parliament gave the Government the power of accepting the offers of these regiments to go on foreign service, besides the Militia regiments which went to the Mediterranean, thirty-seven other regiments offered their services, which the Government had not at the time any occasion to accept. But there were several regiments that did go abroad. They garrisoned Gibraltar, Malta, and the Ionian Islands. At Gibraltar there were the 3rd Lancashire, the Northampton, and the 2nd West York; at Malta, the East Kent; in the Ionian Islands, the Berkshire, the 1st Lancashire, the 3rd Middlesex, the Oxfordshire, the 1st Staffordshire, and the Wiltshire regiments. There were ten Militia regiments that went, and thirty-seven that offered their services and were ready to go; and I must do them the justice to say that those regiments which went have been reckoned as models of military efficiency. I trust I shall not be taking too great a liberty in mentioning the name of an hon. Member of this House, but the general officer at Gibraltar has stated that, in a long course of military service, he had never seen a regiment better officered than that commanded by Colonel Wilson Patten. Sir, the Militia regiments not merely volunteered their services, but in the course of the war they gave 33,102 men to the ranks of the line. That, Sir, may at first appear a very simple operation, and those who look at it superficially will not fully appreciate its merits. But when we think what must have been the public spirit of the Colonels of Militia regiments, who,
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when they had, by great exertion and the devotion of much time, trained and disciplined a fine body of men, had the power of mind and the self-denial to encourage the best of those men to go from under their command and enter the regiments of the line, we must feel that their public spirit and their self-denial entitle them to the admiration and the gratitude of this House and of the country.
The Act which enabled the Government to employ foreign corps was for a time not successful in its operation; but, I am glad to say, that at the present moment we have a force of nearly 16,000 men, Germans, Swiss, and Italians, and troops better disciplined, better conducted, more capable of performing all the duties which military men are liable to perform, never wore the British uniform; and I am quite sure that if the war had gone on, the country would have had reason to be thankful to those brave men for the services they would have rendered. With regard, Sir, to the Militia, as well as with regard to the Navy, it is right not to forget that, whereas in former wars the Militia was raised by conscription, and ships of war were filled partly by conscription, there is this remarkable feature in the last war that neither in the Army, nor the Navy, nor in the Militia, is there any one man who has not entered as a volunteer. You have augmented your forces to the vast extent I have mentioned by the public spirit of your people, and yet every man who has entered your service has himself chosen the profession of arms. You have the certainty that all those who have voluntarily entered your naval and military service are men of courage, of enterprise, of daring character—men every one of whom is worth two who might' be compelled to enter that service by conscription. I say, then, that the men both of your Army and of your Navy have well earned the reward which the thanks of this House will confer upon them.
Although it is not, Sir, within the proper functions of the Legislature of one country, however wide may be the range of the functions of Parliament, to interfere as the dispenser of praise or censure —for if praise may be given censure may be given too—between the Sovereigns of other countries and their soldiers and sailors, yet I am quite sure that we cannot for a moment forget the great and important services performed, in co-operation with our forces, by the Army and Navy of our

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great Ally the Emperor of the French, by the gallant troops of the King of Sardinia, and also by the forces of the Sultan of Turkey. With regard, Sir, to the Army and Navy of France, the mention of their name is sufficient to imply everything that is great, gallant, and heroic in the conduct of men. The French nation have been too well known in all periods of history for the daring gallantry, aye, and for the generosity of their conduct, to require praise or acknowledgment from any living man. History, Sir, is the record of their merits. But, at the same time, we owe them too much—we are too much indebted to them for acts of kindness out of the field of battle, as well as for brave co-operation in the field, for this House not to offer its thanks for the co-operation rendered by the gallant soldiers and sailors of France. Every man in this country values the alliance between the two nations as well as between the two Governments; and it must, therefore, be a matter of satisfaction to them to know that not merely was there a political co-operation between the French and English soldiers and sailors, but that the individual intercourse between the men of the two countries indicated that a feeling of brotherhood existed—that the French and English soldiers and sailors walked about like brothers in arms—and that all former feelings of national jealousy had vanished into empty air, and given place to a real friendship and esteem, founded upon mutual respect. The troops of the King of Sardinia did not arrive in time to take part in those great actions which I have enumerated; but at the battle of the Tchernaya, in which we were not able to take part, they gave proof of that valour and skill which have always characterised the soldiers of that noble kingdom—they displayed a military science which did them infinite honour—and we may be sure that, had the war continued, and had they been called into a more extensive range of action, they would have performed feats which would have rivalled and equalled any recorded in their previous history. Sir, the Turks also did their duty well. For a whole twelvemonth they kept watch and ward at the Danube, and they defended it against all the forces which their Russian enemy was able to bring to bear upon it. Omar Pasha showed great skill in his arrangements, and his troops displayed a courage worthy of the history of their nation. They took the only opportunity afforded them at a subsequent
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period of the war in the defence of Kars, under the command of our gallant and heroic countryman General Williams, of showing in full force their great qualities. Without, then, dwelling upon events which are too fresh in the minds of all I have the honour to address, to require a more particular description, I am persuaded that I shall have the unanimous concurrence of the House in the Motion which I now, Sir, place in your hands.
MR. DISRAELI: Sir, I have the high honour to second the Motion of the noble Lord. Although the struggle which has just terminated has, as the noble Lord justly observes, not been of very long duration, yet such is the improvement which has taken place in the means of communication among nations, and so complete, in consequence, has been the information which has reached us from the scene of warfare, that periods of hostility much more prolonged and wars which some may think even more important in their object than the present, have not furnished the chroniclers of history with a greater variety of incidents and characters than the struggle which has just so happily terminated. So great has been the variety of deeds, so numerous hare been the developments of character, which have already become household words in England, that one may say that every village has its hero and every fireside its thrilling tale. The object of the war, Sir, was from the beginning understood by the people of this country, and they approved it, and the contest has been sustained by them with that firmness which can only be derived from conviction. The noble Lord, Sir, dwelt, with a detail into which it would be impertinent in me to enter, upon the peculiar circumstances of the various arms to which we are now ready to express our gratitude. Although these campaigns have not been of such duration as some which have taken place under great captains—those, for instance, of our own Wellington—still I believe there is hardly any variety of warfare which has not been proved during the course of the contest. We have had the pitched battle, and we have had the protracted siege, we have had heights triumphantly gained, we have had heights defended with success. Throughout these campaigns so numerous were the traits of individual bravery and heroism, such were the effects produced by the determination of our soldiers, that I do not know whether, were we to search the

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most glorious annals of past wars, we should be able to find deeds superior to the achievements of our contemporaries. The noble Lord has also reminded us that the Navy has in these transactions scarcely had the opportunity of distinguishing itself which it deserved, and of which it was fully prepared to avail itself. It is, no doubt, true that the sailors of England have never had the opportunity of meeting in pitched fight the naval armaments of the enemy, but we must remember that by their enterprise the flag of England has waved triumphantly upon waters where it had never before penetrated. The noble Lord has likewise asked us to express our thanks to a third arm of the service—the Marines—equal in every quality to the other two, whose daring deeds will, I am sure, always receive, as they have deserved, the admiration of this House. That is an arm which on various occasions in the wars of this country has rendered great services, for which it deserves the utmost praise which this House can bestow. I was very glad, also, that the noble Lord dwelt with so much feeling and so much justice upon the services of the Embodied Militia. The manner in which the people of this country when the Militia was embodied rallied round their natural loaders is one of the most significant and gratifying proofs that the heart of England is true. The noble Lord has stated that ten regiments of Militia have served in our foreign garrisons during the late war; but the House should always recollect that it is not merely those ten distinguished regiments that have defended our Mediterranean garrisons which have been employed in active service during the war; but that those thirty-seven regiments which, in a manner so much to their credit, offered their services to the Sovereign, may be said in a certain sense to have partaken in the battles that have been fought. From their ranks those 30,000 good and well-tried soldiers were collected—from their ranks many of the youth of England entered into the service of the Queen; and we may recollect with pride—common, I am sure to both sides of the House—that the gentlemen of England have during the war garrisoned our arsenals in this country and defended our strong places abroad; and that many of those Gentlemen are Members of this House. The noble Lord has treated with justice the subject of our cordial relations with our Allies throughout the struggle. Admirable as was the fortune of Marlborough and Eugène, I
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think, if we look back to the co-operation whick took place between England and her Allies, that we shall see that it has not been inferior in concord, sympathy, and generosity to that which prevailed in that illustrious age. But while I would join with the noble Lord in the fullest expression of thanks, even to our Allies—if formally we might offer them—let us remember that there are some who were not our Allies, who were not the soldiers of our Sovereign, to whom it would be not only generous but wise to do justice. The father of poetry, it is, I think, who tells us that the strength of a conqueror cannot be more surely estimated than by the character of him whom he has conquered. Sir, the men whom the forces of the Queen and her Allies had to meet in the great struggle which is now concluded were no common men. The legions that triumphed tinder Suwarroff and fought at the Borodino, although defeated at Se-bastopol, have proved themselves foemen worthy of the united chivalry of England and of France. In doing this justice to our late opponents we are, in fact, only placing the achievements of our fellow-countrymen and our Allies in their true aspect and proper position. Sir, I have great pleasure in seconding the Motion of the noble Lord; and, if it were not presumption, I would express my opinion that when the verdict—I will not say of posterity—but that when the calm and unimpassioned verdict of the time in which we live is given upon these events, it will be acknowledged that in the late struggle our country has shown all those qualities which maintain a nation's greatness, and which prevent the decline and fall of empires.
MR. STAFFORDsaid, that the noble Lord, who had so eloquently moved that the thanks of the House be given to the Army and Navy, and who has been followed by my right hon. Friend the Member for Buckinghamshire, has observed that the Navy had not attracted that degree of enthusiasm which had been bestowed upon the Army, because it had not, in contest with the enemy, accomplished those brilliant achievements which had distinguished the Army. Events succeed each other so rapidly that the popularity of yesterday is unnoticed to-day, and may be forgotten to-morrow. It must be remembered, however, that to the Navy had been intrusted the delicate and important duty of practically commencing the alliance with France. When the two armies arrived in the East,

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and met as brothers there, every soldier knew that the fleets of the two countries had been anchored together, yardarm and yardarm, for months in Besika Bay. Considering the suspicions which were rife at that time, and how anxiously and sedulously it was endeavoured to sow discord among the fleets, it might have been a difficult matter to counteract those many efforts. But the command of the fleet was fortunately intrusted at that time to one whose prudence and popular manners frustrated those attempts so soon as they were made; and it was to Admiral Deans Dun-das that we owed the practical commencement of the alliance. Therefore, and he said it not less from a sense of public duty than from private friendship, it was not just at this hour to pass over the name of that gallant Officer. But Admiral Dundas had a still higher claim to their notice. He (Mr. Stafford) knew, for he was with the Admiral at the time, how unceasing had been his anxiety and wise forethought for the welfare of his sailors—especially for those who were serving on shore—during the winter months when off the coast of the Crimea; Sir Edmund Lyons had stated before the Commission at Chelsea that the difficulties of the fleet were never known, not that they did not exist, but that they had been struggled with and conquered. It was to the wise arrangements of Admiral Dundas that the comparatively good health and comfort of the navy were to ho attributed. Every sailor in the fleet knew that; and yet, when Admiral Dundas was denounced for not doing that which time had shown it to be impossible for him to do, and when he was censured for things, from which one word of explanation would have exculpated him completely, he never uttered that word, and never employed any Member of that House to read official or semi-official, or private correspondence, to justify what he had done, although the temptation might have been great to a man who did not prefer to everything else his sense of duty to the service and the country. And now that Admiral Dundas had retired into private life, feeling that he had been much misrepresented, he had the approbation of his own conscience to carry with him, and he had the good wishes of every one who valued the character of a gallant Officer and of a warm and kind-hearted man. If ever there were a House of Commons which might feel that, in proposing a vote of thanks to the Army
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and Navy, that vote was not a mere idle form of words, it was the present House of Commons. When the war began the supplies were voted with a willingness which, in the eyes of some, was alarming. The progress of events was watched with the utmost anxiety, and the House identifying itself with the feelings of the Army and Navy, deplored their distresses, sympathised with them in their sufferings, and even incurred the inconvenience of a change of Ministry rather than negative a Motion for inquiry into the state and condition of the Army in the Crimea. The cry of the soldiers' agony had reached England, the indignation of the people was aroused, and the House, true exponent of the feelings of the people, was determined at any and every cost to put an end, if possible, to the misery of the gallant defenders of the country. They thus gave an impulse to the Government, the effect of which was speedily felt in the hospitals and in the British camp. Since that time the House had listened with patience and even favour to every plan proceeding from any Member, however humble, which had for its object the amelioration of the soldier's condition. It had shown by every means which usage allowed its fixed determination to do justice to the Army. When the Army Estimates were brought forward, millions were voted with unprecedented facility, the only anxiety that was evinced being, not as to the amount, but as to the proper application of the money to the purposes for which it was intended. Those who had to bring before the House and the country the hideous details of the sufferings of the Army had no enviable task to perform. They had to run counter to many prejudices, and gave offence, he feared, to parties in high quarters. But all those considerations were nothing in their view to the execution of that which they believed to be a sacred duty; and what did they now find? The noble Lord (Viscount Palmerston) had spoken of the excellent sanitary condition of the British troops in the Crimea. The troops were now well clothed and well fed, and their condition excited the admiration of every foreigner. If the sick had recourse to the hospitals, there they found excellent attendance and such completeness of details, that a French officer had told him that the whole establishments were such that it would be found impossible for the hospitals of any other army to compete with them. When the sick were

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sent home, they were sent in transports which differed very little in point of comfort and convenience from what they found in the land hospitals, except that of enjoying the additional benefit of the sea breeze. And when at length they arrived in England they were taken to the hospitals at Brompton and Chatham, where everything was provided for them, and the establishments at which were such as every Englishman might be proud of. The best and latest resources of art were adopted for their benefit, and, finally, on their being paid off, they were discharged with a pension. They had a right, therefore, to view with feelings of gratification and pride the excellent position in which at the close of the war they left their Army. He sincerely congratulated the noble Lord on the achievements he had accomplished during the last year. It must be a high gratification to the noble Lord to feel that during his Administration those brave men had been treated as they deserved. A most just eulogium had been passed by the noble Lord and also by the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) on the Army, which had done justice to the high character of those gallant men. He thought that at the present time the Government might do an act of grace which would be highly gratifying to the Army about to return to their country. But, before he made the suggestion he was about to do, he would ask permission to read an extract from a letter written to a member of her family by one who had been called by Lord Ellesmere, in another place, a ministering angel. Miss Nightingale thus wrote in the month of March from the hospital over which she presided:—
"I have never been able to join in the popular cry about the recklessness, sensuality, and helplessness of the soldier. I should say (and, perhaps, few have seen more of the manufacturing and agricultural classes of England than I have before I came out here), that I have never seen so teachable and helpful a class as the Army generally. Give them opportunity promptly and securely to send money home, and they will use it. Give them schools and lectures, and they will come to them. Give them books and games and amusements, and they will leave off drinking. Give them work, and they will do it. Give them suffering, and they will bear it. I would rather have to do with the Army than with any other class I have ever attempted to serve, and when I compare them with I am struck with the soldier's superiority as a moral, and even an intellectual being."
He could not conceive a greater compliment
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to any class of men than that which was conveyed by those simple words of that incomparable woman. But he had been about to make a suggestion. In some countries in Europe it was the custom to distinguish a happy event, not only by a great deal of rejoicing, but by some act of grace. There were in the prisons of this country many young persons who had been convicted for the first time for light offences. He thought that for the sake of those who had made the name of Briton more famous than any in the world, for the sake of their endurance of hardships, and for the sake of their bravery and good conduct in war, an act of grace might be extended to those young persons who had but once offended. He believed that such a deed of grace would have a good effect upon the juvenile offenders themselves, many of whom, he doubted not, would remember it all the days of their lives, while it would be highly gratifying to those who were returning to their native country to know not only that due honour had been done to themselves, but that their great merits had been the means of conferring a benefit on others. Then, indeed, would the Government and the country have a right to say, that it was not by a mere form of words, but by a good and generous act that they had shown their appreciation of the valour and deserts of those gallant men.
Motion agreed to.
Resolved, Nemine Contradicente—
"That the Thanks of this House be given to the Officers of the Navy, Army, and Royal Marines, who have taken part in the operations of the late War, for the meritorious and eminent services which they have rendered to their Queen and Country, during the course of the War."
Resolved, Nemine Contradicente—
"That this House doth highly approve and acknowledge the Services of the Petty and Noncommissioned Officers, and Men, employed in the Navy, Army, and Royal Marines, who have taken part in the Operations of the late War; and that the same be communicated to them by the Commanders of the several Ships and Corps, who are respectively desired to thank, those under their commands for their exemplary and gallant behaviour."
Resolved, Nemine Contradicente—
"That the Thanks of this House be given to the Officers of the several Corps of Militia which hare been embodied in Great Britain and Ireland during the course of the War, for the zealous and meritorious services which they have rendered to their Queen and Country at home and abroad."
Resolved, Nemine Contradicente—
"That this House doth highly approve and

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acknowledge the services, at home and abroad, of the Non-commissioned Officers and Men of the several Corps of Militia which have been embodied in Great Britain and Ireland during the course of the War; and that the same be communicated to them by the Colonels or Commanding Officers of the several Corps, who are desired to thank them for their meritorious conduct."
Ordered, That Mr. SPEAKER do signify the said Resolutions, by Letter, to the Commissioners for executing the office of Lord High Admiral, and to Field Marshal Viscount Hardinge, Captain General and Commander in Chief of Her Majesty's Forces.
Ordered, That Mr. SPEAKER do signify the said Resolutions, respecting the Militia, by Letter, to Her Majesty's Lieutenant of each County, Riding, and Place in Great Britain, and to his Excellency the Lord Lieutenant of that part of the United Kingdom called Ireland.

REFORMATORY SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Order for Committee read.
House in Committee.
Clause 1.
MR. MAGUIREsaid, he would beg to ask the hon. and learned Member for Greenock, who had charge of the Bill, whether he was prepared to introduce a clause to prevent these reformatory institutions from being made a medium for proselytism—that was, by allowing Roman Catholic children to receive religious instruction from clergymen of their own persuasion?
MR. DUNLOPin reply said, that the schools to be established under the Bill would be private institutions, supported for the most part by private subscriptions; and he was afraid such a clause as that might tend to impair their efficiency, or obstruct their establishment.
MR. HUTCHINSsaid, there was a somewhat similar measure, of a larger scope, before the House, and perhaps it would be better to engraft such a clause on that Bill; otherwise in bringing up the. Report on the Bill now under consideration the clause ought to be enforced.
Mr. ARCHIBALD HASTIEsaid, since the Bill was last before the House, he had made inquiries into the charges of proselytism made against the managers of some of these reformatory institutions in Scotland, and he had found that it could not be supported by evidence.
Notice being taken that Forty Members were not present, the Committee was told;
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and Forty Members not being present Mr. SPEAKER resumed the chair; and having counted the House, and Forty Members not being present,
The House was adjourned at a quarter before Eight o'clock.

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1a Hay and Straw Trade.
2a Smoke Nuisance Abatement (Metropolis) Act, 1853, Amendment; Marriage Law Amending.

HER MAJESTY'S ANSWER TO THE AD DRESS ON THE TREATY OF PEACE.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR reported HER MAJESTY'S Answer to the Address of Monday last, as follows:—
"MY LORDS,
"I RECEIVE with sincere Pleasure the loyal and dutiful Address which you have presented to me on this Occasion.
"I HEARTILY thank you for your cordial Co-operation in the Measures which I considered necessary for the Prosecution of a War, which, in conjunction with My Allies, I have been enabled to conduct to an honourable and successful Termination, by the full Accomplishment of the Objects for which it was undertaken.
"IT is most satisfactory to Me to feel that Peace has been re-established on a
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Basis which affords the best Security for its Permanence; and I trust that, by God's Blessing, it may long continue to promote the Progress of Civilisation, and the Happiness and Welfare of Mankind."

MESSAGE FROM THE QUEEN—MAJOR GENERAL SIR W. F. WILLIAMS, K.C.B.
Message from THE QUEEN, delivered by the LORD PRESIDENT and read by the LORD CHANCELLOR, as follows:—
"HER MAJESTY being desirous of conferring a signal Mark of Her Favour and Approbation on Major General Sir William Fenwick Williams, K.C.B., for the eminent and distinguished Services rendered by him as Her Majesty's Commissioner at the Head Quarters of the Turkish Army in Asia, and particularly in the gallant Defence of Kars, recommends to the House of Lords to concur in enabling Her Majesty to make Provision for securing to Sir William Fenwick Williams a Pension for £1,000 per Annum for the term of his natural Life."
EARL GRANVILLE:I beg to give notice that to-morrow I shall ask the House to take into consideration the Message which Her Majesty has been graciously pleased to send to us. I may also take this opportunity of stating, that Her Majesty has been graciously pleased to announce Her intention of conferring upon General Williams the dignity of a Baronet under the style and title of Sir William Fenwick Williams of Kars.

MURDER OF MISS HINDS—PETITION OF THOMAS DUNNE.
LORD LYNDHURST presented a petition from Thomas Dunne one of the persons convicted for the murder of Miss Hinds, and now under sentence of death in the gaol of Cavan, Ireland, complaining that the Attorney General for Ireland has refused his fiat for the issuing of a writ of error to the Court of Queen's Bench, and praying for relief. The noble and learned Lord requested that the petition, upon which the life of the prisoner depended, might be read by the clerk, and said that he should be glad to hear the opinion of the Lord Chief Justice, whether the objection raised by the petition had any validity.
Petition read.
The Petition stated that one of the jurors originally sworn had, suhsequent to the opening statement of the counsel for the Crown, but before any evidence had been given, been taken ill, and had been discharged; and that another person had been sworn in his place, without the petitioner having been informed of his right of challenge; whereby he had suffered prejudice; and that the Attorney General for Ireland had refused to issue his fiat permitting a writ of error to be sued out.
LORD CAMPBELLsaid, that having been called upon by his noble and learned Friend he could not refuse to state the opinion he had formed on hearing the petition read, which was that no ground had been laid by the petitioner to call for their Lordships' interference. No writ of error could be brought without the fiat of the Attorney General; for if any person convicted of a crime could at his own pleasure stop the execution of the criminal law, an entire perversion of justice must be the consequence. The Attorney General was therefore vested with a discretionary power which bound him to refuse his fiat whenever the application for it was made to him, as appeared to him to have been the fact in this instance, without any colour or show of right, but merely to defeat the course of justice. He (Lord Campbell) would venture to say that no Attorney General ever existed, either in England or Ireland, who, if their appeared to be an arguable point, ever refused his fiat. There was no reason for supposing that any error had been committed in the conduct of the trial. Before any evidence was taken the usual intimation was given to the prisoner by the Clerk of Assize, that if he wished to challenge any one of the jury he might do so before they were sworn. One of the jurymen was taken ill and was replaced by another name from the panel before any of the witnesses had been called; and the prisoner who had the assistance of counsel, having been asked whether he had any objection to the person substituted, answered that he did not know him and took no exception to his serving. What, then, was the gravamen of the allegations of the petition? That the Clerk of Assize did not repeat the intimation that the prisoner had a right to challenge the jurors as they came to be sworn. The prisoner's counsel must have known what were the rights of their client in regard to the challenge, and as no objection was taken and the trial
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was allowed to proceed, there was no ground now for saying that the investigation was not impartially conducted. If the man had been acquitted he could not have been again put on his trial for the same offence. Having, however, been fully convicted, his complaint was wholly unfounded; and, if their Lordships consented to listen to it, they would set a very dangerous precedent.
THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, that he not only concurred in the observations made by his noble Friend, but thought that even if the petition had stated a case for the Attorney General's fiat, it would be impossible for the House to interfere. Their Lordships had nothing before them to vouch for the truth of the statements in the petition. The law provided a course for a person convicted to bring his trial before a court of review, and if their Lordships listened to the prayer of this petition they would have petitions from all persons convicted praying that writs of error might be issued. He trusted their Lordships would not listen to the prayer of the petition.
LORD ST. LEONARDSentirely concurred in all that had been said by his noble and learned Friends, that no case had been made out for the interference of the House. There had been no denial of justice to the prisoner. A simple technical objection had been taken, over which that House had no jurisdiction. The prisoner made no objection to the fresh juryman, the trial proceeded, and was regularly conducted to an end, and it resulted in a conviction of the prisoner. Upon such a state of facts the House had no power whatever to interfere with the course of justice. The petition did not go against the finding in the present case, but for such an alteration of the law as would prevent a recurrence of what had taken place.
LORD BROUGHAMthought the Attorney General for Ireland had exercised a sound discretion. It was necessary that some such power as that of refusing a fiat should be lodged in the proper officer, else there would be a writ of error in every criminal case; but he thought that some of the powers of the Attorney General, in relation to civil plaints, should be taken away from him.
LORD LYNDHURSTobserved that after what had fallen from his noble and learned Friends, and after reading the petition with attention, he had come to the conclusion that the Attorney General for Ireland had

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exercised a sound discretion, and that the cause of the petitioner had suffered no injury at his hands. The petition, however, was of a serious and unusual character, and he (Lord Lyndhurst) had acted under a sense of duty in presenting it.
Petition to lie on the table.

MERCANTILE LAW AMENDMENT BILL.
THE LORD CHANCELLORobserved that he had intended to move the third reading of this Bill that evening, but deferring to the opinion of a noble Friend, a great authority on commercial questions, who assured him that there was among the mercantile classes of London a strong prejudice against certain of its clauses, he had altered his purpose, and would move that, with a view to afford more mature deliberation, the Bill be referred to a Select Committee.
LORD OVERSTONEwas understood to say that the Bill had excited very great alarm and apprehension amongst the merchants of London. They feared that under its provisions contracts which they had hitherto considered binding might be set aside by what had passed in mere conversations; and that the Bill would lead to much misunderstanding, to perjury and fraud. Under these circumstances the mercantile community felt exceedingly desirous to have an opportunity of laying their views before their Lordships.
LORD CAMPBELLsaid, he had not expected that the Bill would meet with any obstruction, and thought that, if the noble Lord who last spoke had not listened to the opinions of others, but exercised his own judgment, he would have found that there was no ground for the alarm which it was alleged existed. He denied, too, that the merchants of London had been taken by surprise in the matter, as a Commission had been for the last two years sitting upon this subject.
EARL GREYapproved the course taken by the Lord Chancellor, and submitted that ample opportunity to explain their objections to the measure should be afforded to those among the traders of London—and they were believed to be a majority—who viewed the Bill with alarm.
LORD ST. LEONARDSalso commended the course adopted by the Lord Chancellor.
LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEYobserved that he did not share the apprehensions of those who viewed the Bill with alarm. Full time had already been allowed
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for the consideration of the subject, and though he offered no objection to the postponement of the third reading, he protested against its being stated that the commercial community had been taken by surprise.
THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, he trusted it would be understood that he did not entertain any doubt as to the propriety of the clause which abrogated so much of the Statute of Fraud; but after what had passed between him and his noble Friend, who was so eminently qualified to give an opinion, and who said that there was a general feeling against the clause, he thought it would not be desirable that the Bill should go down from their Lordships' House to the other House of Parliament with the chance of it being said that it was a piece of hasty legislation. He thought it right to err by giving too much consideration than too little, and he could not help thinking that when the matter was considered those persons would see that it was not open to the objections that they had made.
Order for the Third Reading read and discharged: and Bill referred back to the same Select Committee to which it was formerly referred.
Order of the Day for the Third Reading of the Mercantile Law (Scotland) Amendment Bill read and discharged.

VOTE OF THANKS TO THE ARMY, NAVY, AND MARINES, MILITIA,&c.
LORD PANMURE LORD PANMURE rose to move that the thanks of the House be given to the Army, Navy, and Marines employed in the operations of the late war, and to the Embodied Militia; and said:—My Lords, I shall as briefly as I can, consistently with justice to the subject, bring before your Lordships the Motion which I have to make. The House has this day presented at the foot of the Throne its thanks to Her Majesty for the announcement of the return of peace; but, before we surrender ourselves to the enjoyment of that peace—before we hang up our swords on the wall, from which I trust it will be long ere we shall take them down again—there is a duty which remains for us to perform, and which I have the greatest satisfaction in inviting your Lordships to perform—namely, the duty of returning thanks to all branches of Her Majesty's service for their zeal, their courage, and their endurance during the period of war through, which we have just passed. In so doing I shall endeavour to avoid every controversial point

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which might tend in the least degree to detract from that unanimity which I am quite sure your Lordships all wish to evince on the present occasion.
My Lords, the first branch of Her Majesty's service to which I will allude is the Navy of this country. We have on this occasion no great triumphs to acknowledge, such as those of Trafalgar and the Nile; but, nevertheless, we have to acknowledge services on the part of the Navy which, though not brilliant were yet of the utmost importance, and such as must command the gratitude of this country. In the Baltic we have seen the Navy maintain in that inhospitable sea one of the most difficult blockades without the sacrifice of a single one of Her Majesty's ships, and almost, I might say, without injury to any individual in our service. The Navy has distinguished itself there by reducing one of the strongholds of the enemy. The Navy also blockaded with perfect success the strong fortresses and harbours on those coasts, and swept the Baltic Sea of every vessel belonging to the enemy, confining within Russian ports the vast Navy of the enemy. Such have been the deeds performed by our Navy in the Baltic, for which I shall move your Lordships to return thanks to that distinguished branch of the service. In the Black Sea, though there has been no brilliant action performed by the combined Navy, yet there has been an attack on the fortress of Sebastopol and on Kinburn, and these deeds, together with the manner in which the Navy twice swept the Sea of Azoff, and rendered the greatest assistance to Her Majesty's Army, deserve the gratitude of the country, and I am quite sure will receive it. But the services of the Navy have not been sufficiently known in one respect to which I shall take the liberty to direct your Lordships' attention. The assistance which the Navy rendered to the country in carrying on this war by furnishing the means of transport for the Army and stores ought, I think, to be more publicly known. The following is an account of the troops, horses, stores, &c., conveyed in British transports, ships-of-war, &c., during the years 1854 and 1855:

I.—TROOPS.

British, from Great Britain (including Militia) to Mediterranean, Foreign Legion, Transport Corps, &c

123,105

British, from Mediterranean to Black Sea

26,659

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Total British

149,764

French, from France to Baltic and Mediterranean

52,919

Sardinians

19,301

Total troops to scat of war

221,984

Troops moved in Black Sea

170,634

Troops moved coastwise, &c,

43,185

Grand total troops conveyed

435,803

II.—HORSES.

British, from Great Britain

13,302

British, from Mediterranean

9,766

Total British

23,068

French

2,195

Sardinian

3,325

Total horses to seat of war

28,588

Horses moved in Black Sea

24,038

Horses moved coastwise

2,296

Grand total horses conveyed

54,922

III.—STORES.

Tons.

Tons.

British, from Great Britain

281,004

British, from Mediterranean

35,735

Total British

…

316,739

French

…

18,881

Sardinian

…

4,298

Grand total stores conveyed

…

339,918

In carrying on the war, the services of the Navy have been rendered with the utmost effect whenever it was brought in contact with the enemy, or whenever it was called on to assist in the conveyance of troops and munitions of war; and I think, under these circumstances, I may fairly assume that your Lordships are ready to accord with one voice to that branch of Her Majesty's service your cordial approbation. I cannot close this enumeration of the services of the Navy with out saying how fully I concur in the tribute paid by my noble Friend (the Earl of Ellesmere) the other night to the memory of a gallant admiral in that service, now no more—I mean Admiral Boxer —by whose endeavours some system was first established in the small and narrow harbour at Balaklava—a system which, though afterwards worked out with great perfection, he, nevertheless, was the first to begin.
My Lords, I pass now to the nest branch of Her Majesty's service, one with which. I am not ashamed to say my sympathies and affections are more immediately concerned, having been connected with that service in my early days, and having ever since, consequently, felt for it the warmest and sincerest attachment. In moving your Lordships to accord your thanks on the

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present occasion to the Army, I have no fear but I shall secure your cordial concurrence. The Army of England was first embarked, as your Lordships are aware, in the year 1854, to take part in the war on the enemy's territory. In alluding to this event I cannot forget that the Army was led from England by one to whom we looked up as the great pupil of the illustrious Duke of Wellington, and as one who, better than any other man, knew almost the individuals of which the Army was composed, who commanded their respect, had earned their love, and who concentrated in his own person their fullest and most entire confidence. It did not please Providence to permit Lord Raglan to see the end of the triumphant career which he commenced. When that Army left this country, full of vigour, though small in numbers, none felt any doubt that the honour of the country was safe in its hands. No one felt any doubt that its banners would be always carried foremost in the fight, or that the credit and the name of England would be nobly maintained. My Lords, there were, however, some considerations which gave room for anxiety. That Army was called upon to fight in the same field and on the same side as the army of France. Old animosities and antipathies were to be wiped away; new rivalries of friendship were to be established; and I have no hesitation in saying that it was by the tact, the skill, and the chivalrous generosity which preferred the weal of another to the advantage of self by which Lord Raglan was actuated that the cordial union between the Armies of the two nations was brought about. He implanted this good feeling so deeply on the minds of his officers and soldiers, that when. new levies joined a similar inspiration seized them, and during the whole of Lord Raglan's career the cordial friendship which existed between the Armies of England and France was most remarkable. Nor did it exist only during his lifetime, for after his sun had gone down it left its genial influence behind it; and it is to his exertions that I attribute the cordiality which has up to this hour subsisted between the Armies of the two countries. It is not necessary for me to remind your Lordships of the career of that Army. When it first landed in the East it was not immediately called into action. The first foe which it had to encounter was that which it is most difficult, nay, impossible to overcome. It was disease
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When the Army lay at Varna and in its neighbourhood, it encountered that fell pestilence of the country which swept before it many gallant and ardent spirits ere they had time to prove their might in battle. But this had the effect of showing the people of England that the Army which had gone forth possessed not merely physical, but also that moral courage, which enabled it to endure privations as well as fight battles. On that account, the people felt the greatest confidence in the Army. When it was called into action, we cannot forget the victories of the Alma, of Inker-man, and of Balaklava, and that on no occasion during the whole war on which the Army of England was called upon to face the enemy in the field did it ever suffer the smallest reverse. My Lords, I need hardly recall to your recollection the circumstances of the siege of Sebastopol; that siege so long, so wearisome, and so full of hardship, in which the patience and endurance as well as the gallantry of the Army, were, for a longer period than is on record with regard to any other siege, constantly tried. Yet all the difficulties and dangers of that siege, all the privations to which the Army was exposed, never for a moment shook or impaired its discipline; and when that siege resulted in the surrender of the town, the Army was found ready to repair the disorganisation which such a siege must introduce into the ranks of any Army, to resume its drill, and to recomplete its formation; so that it is at the present moment one of the finest Armies that England ever possessed. I am tempted to read to your Lordships a portion of a despatch which has been already given to the public, which will prove that the Army is in a condition of which the nation may well be proud. Writing on the 19th of April, Sir W. Codrington says:—
"I have the satisfaction of assuring your Lordship of the steady, the good, the healthy appearance of the Army; of its very apparent efficiency in every branch; of the order, quietness, and regularity with which every regiment passed by; and it was a subject of pride to us all to feel that such was the appearance of the Army of England in the Crimea."
That is the testimony of the Commander in Chief to the present state of the Army; and I must take this opportunity of stating that this efficiency is due, not to anything which has been done from home, but to the exertions of the officers who are present with the Army, and to the cordial co-operation of every one of them, from the highest to the lowest, with its Commander

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in Chief. This is not an inappropriate time for me to state to your Lordships something respecting the sanitary state of the Army. I am happy to be able to state that, although the Army is at a considerable distance from home, and is subjected to the risks of encampment in the field, the results of a comparison between its health and that of troops at home are truly remarkable. The last account of its sanitary condition is for the week ending April 21. The strength of the Army was then about 70,000 men. The admissions to the hospitals were 1·56 per cent in proportion to the strength; the deaths 0·02, and proportion of sick to well 3·72 per cent. I have had the curiosity to compare this with the sanitary state of that portion of the army which is at home in camp at Aldershot. I find that at Aldershot the assumed strength is 16,000. During the above period the admissions were 2·71 per cent; deaths 0·006, and the proportion of sick to well 3·59. It is very gratifying to find that, after all the Army has gone through, its sanitary condition is so good.
Another point to which I wish to refer is the casualties which have occurred during the war. Various exaggerated and unfounded reports have been circulated with reference to the losses which this country has sustained by the war. I have been induced to have prepared a statement which will show to your Lordships, as nearly as may be, and on very good grounds, what our losses really have been during the two years of war.

Officers.

Men.

Killed in action from 19th Sept., 1854, to 28th Sept., 1855

158

1,775 = 1,933

Died of wounds during the same period

51

1,548 = 1,599

Died of cholera

35

4,244 = 4,279

Died of other diseases to 31st Dec., 1855

26

11,425 = 11,451

Died of wounds and disease from Jan. 1st, 1856, to March 31st, 1856

—

322 = 322

Total deaths

270

19,314 = 19,584

Discharged from the service since commencement of the war to 31st March, 1856:

Wounds

1,875

Disease

998

2,873

Add deaths as above

19,584

Total loss

22,457

If we compare this with the reported loss of the Russians, if we compare it with
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what may be presumed to have been the losses of our Allies, we ought to feel gratitude to Almighty God for having permitted the scourge of war to fall thus lightly upon this country. We are led, and, I think, upon good authority, to believe that the Russians have lost not much under 500,000 men during the war. I will not venture— for I have no authority to go upon—to say anything about the losses of our Allies, but I say again, notwithstanding our own losses, we ought to feel the utmost gratitude and satisfaction that the arrangements which were made for the care of our troops should have been the means of saving so many valuable lives.
I cannot pass away from the deeds of the Army before Sebastopol without repairing an omission in the earlier part of my speech with reference to the Navy; and it is not too late. Your Lordships are all aware of the important services which were rendered by the Naval Brigade in the trenches before Sebastopol; and I am sure you will join with me in testifying your high appreciation of them.
I do not mention on this occasion the names of any officers who are now living, because I find that it is not usual in general Votes of Thanks to the Army, and, if I were to do so, I should run up a catalogue, including the names of almost every officer in the Army. But we cannot forget those who have fallen in this war, and it is but fitting, I think, that we should pay our tribute of gratitude to them. We cannot forget the names of such men as Cathcart, Goldie, Strangways, Adams, Campbell—and Torrens, who, though he did not die in battle, yet sank under wounds which he had received on the field. We cannot, we never shall, forget the names of such, distinguished men, whose remains lie on the field where they earned their glory. It is most gratifying to me to be able to say that steps have been taken by my noble Friend near me to guard and preserve inviolate the cemetery where they lie. Promises have been made, which I am certain will be performed, that every respect will be paid to their remains by the nation, who is happily now no longer our enemy.
My Lords, I now pass to another portion of the British Army for which I claim the thanks of your Lordships—I mean the Foreign Levies which have entered our service during the war. These now amount to full 15,000 men, active, well trained, and well organised soldiers; ready to enter

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into active service had the war continued. The British German Legion, under the able guidance of Baron von Stutterheim, musters at home and abroad a force of 9,000 men; the Swiss Legion amounts to 3,138 men, and the Italian Legion to 3,662, in all 15,790 men. Some of these are now quartered at Scutari, two regiments of the Swiss are at Smyrna—all men anxious and eager for the field, and most disappointed that they have not had an opportunity of distinguishing themselves. I trust that when the time comes to dispense with the services of these men we shall not forget the zeal which they have shown in rallying round the standard of England, so that by our treatment of them we shall make our good name respected throughout Europe, and should again occasion arise—as I trust it never may—we may be able again to invite their services, with the full expectation of our call being cheerfully responded to by them. The only other portion of the British Army to which I shall advert is more intimately connected with Turkey. I mean the Turkish Contingent. This force, as your Lordships are aware, was handed over to the service of this country by a special convention entered into with us. It was commanded by officers of the British Army—and when I say the British Army, I include both the Queen's and the Indian Armies. It was placed under the command of General Vivian, of whom I must say that he has so organised and formed it that, had it been called into active service in the course of the present spring, it would have been perfectly ready to take a part in any operation—perfect in its transport service, and in all its arrangements for service in the field.
I pass now, my Lords, to the last branch of the service to which I shall refer, and I have not the least doubt that I shall have your as cordial assent in proposing to your Lordships to thank the Militia for its zeal in Her Majesty's service, as I have received to the thanks to those branches of the service I have already named. I promised not to introduce any controversial point. I will not say whether the Militia was originally placed on the most advantageous footing for the country; but this I will say, that all the assistance which the zeal and the energy of the gentlemen of England could afford has been cheerfully and promptly afforded to Her Majesty's service. There is a remarkable fact connected with this war to which it is right
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I should draw your Lordships' attention. In all former wars this country has been compelled to have recourse to pressing in the Navy, and the ballot for the Militia. On this occasion we have mustered a more numerously manned fleet and a larger body of troops than in any former war, and no compulsion, either of the pressgang or of the ballot, has been resorted to. It is a proud thing for this country to be able to say that we have sent on the seas a gallant and brave fleet—that we have assembled in the field so numerous and well appointed an Army—and yet that every man in that Fleet and in that Army was a volunteer. The Militia, upon this voluntary system, has now mustered 63,603 men in its ranks; it has given to the regular army, since November, 1854, no fewer than 33,000 men; and it has not only done that, but it has exhibited an earnest desire to serve Her Majesty in foreign parts, and no fewer than eleven regiments of Militia, mustering very nearly 6,000 men, are now serving the Queen in the Mediterranean garrisons. In addition to these, Her Majesty's Government have been obliged reluctantly to decline the proffered services of twenty-two English regiments, four Scotch regiments, and twelve Irish regiments; and I am quite confident that it was only the knowledge that the offer could not be accepted, which prevented every Militia regiment in the United Kingdom from expressing their desire to serve Her Majesty, not only in Gibraltar, Malta, the Ionian Isles, but in any of our colonial possessions; nay, I know that some of them were most desirous to serve in the field with the regular Army. I am gratified to be able to state that Her Majesty has been graciously pleased to allow those Militia regiments who have been serving abroad to bear on their colours the word "Mediterranean," as a memento to posterity of their patriotic zeal. I cannot express all that I feel with reference to the services of the Militia during the present war. They have exhibited an example which proves to all countries that the gentlemen of England, however apparently devoted to the arts of civil life during peace, are ready to give their services to the Crown, in a military capacity, the moment war breaks upon the land, and we have the gratification of knowing that these gentlemen have shown such a zeal, such a desire to perfect themselves in their new profession, that they have made themselves

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in a very short time equal to officers of the regular Army, and many of the regiments of Militia have become, in a very short time, equal to regiments of the line. I have stated in this House already that in the garrison of Gibraltar it was a Militia officer who commanded a brigade in the field, and who received from General Fer-gusson the highest encomium for the military talents which he exhibited, and which have only been, drawn from him by this war. I trust that this Militia force, now that the war has closed, will not be allowed to subside nor to lose its present efficiency.
My Lords, while returning your thanks to the Army, Navy, and Militia for its services during the present war, it would not be becoming in your Lordships to forget how much we are indebted to our Allies who have been united with us in the prosecution of this war. To the army of France we owe much, for from them, I believe, we have learnt something in regard to the mode of conducting war. We owe them much for the cordial manner in which they have at all times united with our troops, and for the good feeling which has always existed between the soldiers of all ranks in both Armies. Much of this is due to the conduct and ability of those officers who have acted as Commissioners with each Army. Too much praise cannot be given to the French Commissioners who were attached to our head-quarters, for their efforts to maintain these excellent relations, and I deeply regret that one of them. Colonel Dieu, is not alive to receive from this country that meed of praise. Our own Commissioners, Sir Hugh Rose and his brother Commissioner, serving with the French Army, no less merit that approbation which I am sure your Lordships will cordially join with me in testifying to them. The Sardinian Army also has played a very distinguished part in the Allied forces, and has earned for itself the highest glory by its conduct in the Crimea. In the combat at the bridge of Traktir, they made a most successful resistance against overwhelming numbers, and by this time they have returned— the greatest part of them—to their own country, gratified at having acted with the French and English Armies, and carrying with them, as a memento of that co-operation, the English battery of four guns, to the fire of which General Marmora attributed some portion of that day's
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victory, and which General Codrington, with that readiness which distinguishes him to mark bravery and loyalty, begged General Marmora to accept in memory of the day. With regard to our Allies the Turks, for whom we took up arms and along with whom we have fought, the history of the war shows that upon every occasion when they have come in contact with the troops of the enemy in the field they have beaten them, and have won for themselves imperishable honour. We have seen enough to be convinced that there is no nation in Europe which can furnish more efficient troops, if properly formed and properly led, than the Ottoman Empire. It is upon the leading and organisation of troops that success will always depend, and it is because the troops are properly organised and led by British blood of the first families in the land that they have always succeeded in whatever they have undertaken and wherever duty called them. My Lords, I have now concluded the observations which I have to make upon this most interesting subject; but before I sit down I would earnestly entreat your Lordships, now that peace is restored, not hastily to part either with that imposing Navy which has been collected after two years of war, or to part with that fine and noble Army which we have now on foot. We cannot forget that at the commencement of this war, to use the mildest language, we found the greatest inconvenience from the want of instruction under which our officers were labouring, and from their being unaccustomed to move our troops in anything like masses. You have now an Army formed in masses; let me advise you to keep it. You have now an Army formed in divisions and brigades; let me advise and entreat your Lordships not to lose sight of that formation, but to instruct your officers and men in the movement of these bodies, and to keep them accustomed to them. Above all, I entreat Parliament, now that peace has been restored, not to rush back to that false and mischievous economy which has been practised in former times, and for which I do not blame any one Government more than another, for all have been equally to blame, but by which very large expenses were ultimately incurred, because thereby cur naval and military establishments were allowed to fall into decay and inefficiency. We have learned a lesson from the late war, and I trust that that lesson will not be forgotten. A fair and proper economy ought of course to be observed, but I hope

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we shall not be in a hurry to revert to that false economy which, in truth, when an Army has to be raised to a war standing, is the cause of much additional and unnecessary outlay. If at the beginning of this war our Army had been as efficiently organised as it is at the present moment, we could have increased it at much less expense and with much more rapidity. I hope, therefore, that the country will not give way to the pleasures of a false economy, but will maintain the Army in such a state of organisation and discipline as shall enable us at any moment (should occasion arise) to place it on a war footing in the most speedy and efficient manner, without having as we have had within the last two years, almost to create a new Army for the occasion. The noble Lord concluded, by moving to resolve—
"That the Thanks of this House be given to the Officers of the Navy, Army, and Royal Marines who have taken Part in the Operations of the late War, for the meritorious and eminent Services which they have rendered to The Queen and the Country during the Course of the War:
"That this House doth highly approve and acknowledge the Services of the Petty and Noncommissioned Officers and Men of the Navy, Army, and Royal Marines who have taken Part in the Operations of the late War, and that the same he communicated to them by the Commanders of the several Ships and Corps, who are respectively desired to thank those under their Commands for their exemplary and gallant Behaviour."
THE EARL OF DERBY: My Lords, whatever differences of opinion may have interfered with our unanimity upon a late occasion, when we were asked to adopt an Address to Her Majesty on the subject of the peace—whatever doubts may have been entertained with respect to the merits of that peace, or the results which have been achieved by the efforts of our Army and Navy—I am sure that I express the universal opinion of your Lordships when I say that on all sides of the House there can be but one feeling of concurrence in the Motion which has just been made by the noble Lord opposite, and of approval of the manner in which he has introduced it. If I presume for a single moment to intrude upon your notice, in the presence of many much more competent than I am to do justice to the exertions and services both of the Army and of the Navy, it is only because the position which I have the honour to hold in this House makes me desirous of testifying, in the fullest and most significant manner, that among your Lordships there can be no difference
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of opinion upon the present occasion, hut that all alike concur in giving their tribute of praise and gratitude—however feeble or inadequate to the occasion that tribute may be, or however below the merits of those to whom it is paid—to our own gallant forces by land and sea, to the Militia of the United Kingdom, and to those brave men who have been associated with us in the hour of trial and of victory, and our alliance and close friendship with whom, I trust, will not terminate with the war in which we have fought and won together.
I need hardly say that I concur, as all your Lordships must, in the tribute of praise which has been paid by the noble Lord to the soldier-like qualities, the high bearing, and the distinguished services of the gallant and lamented Commander of our Forces; and I am sure that all who knew him, and all who had the happiness of being in any way connected with him, will feel that the eulogium of the noble Lord does not surpass, but rather falls short of—as most eulogiums must do —the merits of that great man. I concur entirely with the noble Lord not only in attributing to Lord Raglan much of the credit which has been gained, much of the efficiency of the troops under his command, much also of the good understanding which subsisted between the various portions of the allied Armies during his lifetime, but also in believing that his memory and example have since his lamented death exercised no unimportant influence over the temper and discipline of the service.
My Lords, no words of mine—no words that can be uttered—can do justice to the services of that noble Army, whose devoted gallantry in the field, whose unflinching courage in the hour of battle, and, above all, whose patient heroism in the midst of disease, famine, and privations of every description,—keeping alive under all difficulties and discouragements not only the strictest discipline, but the most fearless valour and the most unhesitating devotion to duty,—reflect more credit upon them than any army ever gained before.
Although, as the noble Lord has observed, the sister service has not enjoyed the same opportunities of distinguishing itself by brilliant actions, yet in every direction in which its efforts have been made available it has brought to the common cause great zeal, great energy, and great courage. If it has not gained any conquests over hostile fleets it is because

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no hostile fleet has dared to face it; but, wherever its services have been demanded, it has shown that the officers and men of the present day are not inferior to their predecessors in those qualities which at all times have distinguished—and I hope will continue to distinguish—the British Navy. The noble Lord most properly abstained from mentioning the name of any individual in either service who is yet living to receive in his own person the tokens of the gratitude of his country; but there was one omission which for some time I apprehended he was going to make, for it was not till near the conclusion of his speech that he referred to the valuable services of the Naval Brigade—services which it is impossible too highly to appreciate—services which, though not rendered on their own element or in the exercise of their own profession, excited the admiration of the whole Army, displaying, as they did, a courage almost reckless and exertions almost superhuman. But when the noble Lord alluded to those officers of the Army whose loss the country had to deplore, and whose names are to be cherished in our memory, there is one officer of the naval service whose name might have been not unworthily introduced, although I may think it invidious to select from among those who are still living, the name of that gallant Admiral who has happily returned to reap the fruits of the gratitude and admiration of his country, yet I may be allowed to say that it would not have been inappropriate to remember that, while he enjoys in his own person the honour and the glory that have fallen to his lot, his feelings of pride and satisfaction must be dashed by some melancholy recollections, and in the private bereavement of that gallant Admiral the country will not forget that it has lost the services of an able and distinguished officer, who, if he had been spared, we might have fondly hoped, would have trod in the steps of his father and have earned for himself a high place among the naval heroes of England. I regret also that the noble Lord, in enumerating the services of the various branches of the Army and Navy, omitted to refer—though I am sure inadvertently—to the efforts of a corps which deserves, as it will receive, the thanks and gratitude of the country. I did not hear a single word from him with respect to the Royal Marines, and yet there is no body of men whose services were more valuable or more cheerfully
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rendered during the late war, especially when they occupied a most exposed position upon the heights of Balaklava. Nor can there be any doubt that had the war continued we should have found the Turkish Contingent and the Foreign Legions most efficient and useful auxiliaries. I avoid all reference to the policy of the original formation of those legions; but with regard to their present position and future services, I am quite certain that whatever objections may have been taken to the manner in which they were originally raised, there can be but one opinion among your Lordships, that, the war having now closed, those foreign troops ought to be dealt with liberally and generously. They have come forward to assist you in your hour of difficulty; many of them will have exposed themselves to consequences and have placed themselves in a position most inconvenient and unpleasant; their relations with their own countries have been to a great extent disturbed by their enlisting in your service. How you may be able best to dispose of them is not for me to say, but I am quite sure that the country will wish and expect you to deal with them in a handsome and generous manner.
One word with respect to another body to whom our attention is called by the Motion of the noble Lord. I mean those country gentlemen of England who, sacrificing their own private and domestic ease and comfort, have exposed themselves to all the inconveniencies and privations attending active service, and those men who, enlisted only for casual and very temporary service within their own immediate neighbourhoods, have cheerfully responded to successive demands to undertake permanent duty, willingly withdrawing themselves from their ordinary occupations to enter upon a military life—who, when their services were still further called for, joyfully left their homes and their country to perform garrison duty abroad—a duty which they discharged with remarkable success—thereby enabling you to send Her Majesty's regular troops to the immediate seat of war, thus adding materially to the efficiency and number of your Army in the Crimea—and who, I venture to say, would only have been too happy, if Her Majesty had thought fit to accept the tender of their further services, and permitted them to share the perils and glories of war by the side of the regular troops, would only have been too happy to render

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their services. I trust that now the war has closed—now that you have proved the efficiency of the Militia—now that through its instrumentality no fewer than 100,000 men have been raised, of whom 30,000 have already been draughted into the regular Army—now that you must be satisfied that, had the war continued, a large proportion of the remaining 70,000 would have permanently joined Her Majesty's forces—I trust that your Lordships will not be in haste to dispense with a service which has been so valuable au assistant to the regular force. I know that in a time of peace you cannot keep the militia regiments permanently embodied, nor do I think it desirable that you should do so; but I trust that we shall not again fall into the error, which has been committed on former occasions, of suffering the skeletons of those regiments to crumble to pieces—of allowing the staff and organisation of those regiments to fall into disuse and inefficiency—and of neglecting to retain such a nucleus of each regiment as, called out every year, or at all events once in two years, for a limited period of service, may, in the first place, keep alive the skeleton of the militia system, to be filled up and completed when occasion should occur; and, in the next, to maintain among the men that military feeling and those habits of discipline which must enable them in the hour of peril to render good service to their Sovereign and their country.
My Lords, I entirely concur in the concluding observation of the noble Lord both in regard to the Militia and the regular Army, that nothing can be such false economy as hastily to do away with your present establishments. Reduction, and that, too, on a large scale, must undoubtedly take place; but, in the meantime, however you diminish numbers, keep up the efficiency of your system—keep your improved organisation complete, and retain your men, not merely as an agglomeration of men and regiments, as at the commencement of the war, but as an army which, though not numerous, is regularly embodied into divisions and brigades, habituated to act in concert; so that whenever we shall be again at war, numbers may he all that we shall require—and numbers, you may depend upon it, the spirit of the country will always supply. In this way you may in peace constantly preserve the perfect miniature of an organised and effective war establishment. I shall not venture further to intrude on your Lordships' attention.
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I need hardly say that I cordially concur in the Vote of Thanks moved by the noble Lord—a Vote in which I am sure not this House only but the whole country to a man will heartily join.
THE DUKE OF CAMBRIDGE: My Lords, I beg to give my most cordial assent to the Motion which has been submitted to your Lordships. It would ill become me, as a member of the Army, to add one word to what has fallen from both sides of this House as to its recent conduct; but I may, perhaps, be permitted to observe that, having witnessed some of the glorious achievements of the late campaigns, as well as the hardships to which both the officers and men of the army were exposed, I can state that those hardships were borne with a cheerfulness and a patient endurance which reflected the highest credit on every one subjected to them. My Lords, it required all the energy of mind and body possessed by all grades of the service to contend against the difficulties and privations experienced in the months of November and December, 1854; and I am convinced, that not only those who survived that portion of the campaign, but the relatives and friends of those who fell, will feel grateful to your Lordships for the handsome and liberal manner in which their bravery and fortitude have been acknowledged. One more tribute I am anxious to pay, and it is chiefly to do so that I have risen on this occasion. Allusion has been made to the services of the Navy, and I may observe that, although it so happened that the portion of the fleet sent to the Black Sea bad not those opportunities of distinguishing itself which were afforded to the Army, yet this circumstance arose, as has been already explained, from no fault of our officers and seamen, but simply because their enemy did not choose to meet them. Whenever a chance of acquiring distinction offered itself, the Navy evinced only too eager an alacrity to seize it, and, having myself seen the fleet go into action before Sebastopol on the 17th of October, I am sure that all who were engaged in that, operation merit the best thanks of this House. And further, having been likewise an eye-witness of the assistance rendered by the sister service to the Army, I can assure your Lordships that without that cordial co-operation the country never could have arrived at the result which has now been so happily attained. From the Admirals down to the humblest

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seamen on board the fleet, every person worked earnestly and zealously to relieve the wants of the Army—wants which, as is well known, were great and urgent; and if no other advantage should flow from the war than that good feeling and perfect harmony between the two services which recent events have so much tended to strengthen, I should regard the result as a most fortunate one. On the part of the Army, then, I gladly avail myself of this opportunity to express its gratitude for the invaluable co-operation it received from the officers and men of the Navy. There is another body to which I wish to refer—I mean the Militia, which I am delighted to find has not been omitted from this Vote of Thanks. Although that force did not actually share in the operations of the war, it has come to my knowledge that many Militia regiments would have willingly gone out to join the Army in a body; and there can be no doubt that by those regiments, volunteering as they did to serve on the Mediterranean stations, they were of the greatest use to Her Majesty's Government and the country, inasmuch as they enabled the regular troops then quartered at those stations to proceed to the seat of the struggle at a moment when their assistance was most essential. I therefore heartily unite in the expression of our acknowledgments to the Militia for their valuable services to the country; and, having myself seen many of the regiments, I may be allowed, in conclusion, to remark that, but for the difference in their uniform, I should hardly have been able to distinguish them, in many instances, from regiments of the line.
THE EARL OF CARDIGANsaid, that as an humble member of the Army, he must be allowed to express his participation in the satisfaction at the Vote of Thanks proposed by the Minister of War to the Army employed in the East. He was also anxious to pay his humble tribute to the memory of Lord Raglan, under whose command all the great victories of the Crimea had occurred. It was unfortunate that the noble General had not lived to reap the best reward of his great services—the restoration of peace to his country and to the world; and he must also deplore that that gallant General had not survived to receive at the hands of their Lordships that Vote of Thanks, to the larger share of which he was so well entitled. The present efficiency of the
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Army and is organisation, never before exceeded, were chiefly owing to Lord Raglan, who acquired the confidence and inspired the devotion of every soldier of every grade in the Army. He would refer to what had been so eloquently said by a right hon. Baronet, of great experience and eminent talent, in the other House of Parliament:—
"I, Sir, have had the advantage of being from early youth a friend of the late Lord Raglan, and I say that in valour, courtesy, firmness, and honour, he was a bright example of an English General. He had, upon the ground to which I have referred, great difficulties to contend against, but by his courtesy he won the esteem of two Marshals of France in a combined operation. His valour was proved when he led—a circumstance new in our annals—British troops side by side with French to the storming of a strong position, defended by brave soldiers, worthy of the adversaries against whom they had to contend. He had, I say, great difficulties to contend with, but, thanks to his courtesy, the Alliance remained unbroken. Although his conduct during some part of his command had been made the subject of adverse comment, I think that, taken all in all, we shall not for some time look upon his like again."
He (the Earl of Cardigan) entirely concurred in that statement and that opinion; and he should only add the expression of feeling of a General Officer, who was now under inquiry in a public hall not far from that House, and who had been constantly on habits of intercourse with the late lamented Lord Raglan. That General Officer said:—
"The General worthy to command such troops in the hour of danger would be one whose high courage and firm will could keep the groups of men together, and give them still in the eyes of the enemy the semblance of a powerful force. In the British Army they believed that such a General was Lord Raglan; and the gallant officers and soldiers of the French Army, ever keen in their scrutiny of a General's capabilities, warmly shared in that opinion. After the fight of Inkerman, when for a time he was reduced to act on the defensive, Lord Raglan displayed the singular faculty he possessed of conveying to the minds of all who approached him the fixed determination of his own. Without dissembling facts, he would calmly withhold his assent from gloomy apprehensions, and would manfully call attention to the special business of the time, and, by a power not to be described in words, he threw upon those who conversed with him the energy of his own undaunted nature. Men went to him anxious and perturbed, but they came away firm and determined."
He (the Earl of Cardigan) thought that, without any stretch of imagination, the House could see the great qualities of Lord Raglan as they had been called into play after the battle of Inkerman.

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The memory of that great General was respected and beloved by every soldier and every officer in the Army. Every one felt confidence in him; and he (the Earl of Cardigan) only hoped that, if the war had continued, equal confidence would have been felt in those who should have succeeded him. It was, therefore, that he (the Earl of Cardigan) said that every one would view with gratification and satisfaction the restoration of peace to this country and to Europe. The war, he was bound to say, had been, in his opinion, carried on with great vigour and effect by the Government; and he believed the peace, by which it had been now concluded, to be honourable, and likely to prove conducive to the permanent happiness of the country. Nor should it be forgotten how large a tribute of the national gratitude was due to the noble Lord the Foreign Secretary, who on this, as on all other occasions, had displayed firmness, energy, and talent. Participating in the sentiments of satisfaction which all Englishmen must experience when war was no longer necessary, he would merely observe, in conclusion, that the loss of Lord Raglan as Commander of the Army, and the thought of the manner in which the command had been frequently changed since the death of that distinguished officer, in no degree diminished the feelings of gratification inspired by the reflection that an honourable peace had been at length concluded.
EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, I, in common with all other members of your Lordships' House, have listened with extreme satisfaction to the speech of the illustrious Duke who has addressed us, and I am sure that your Lordships will concur with me in the opinion that the discipline and well-being of the Army must have been, in no trivial degree, promoted by the opportunity afforded to the soldiers of observing the firmness and fortitude with which a personage of such exalted rank shared their dangers, privations, and hardships. Nor can I permit the debate to close without presenting, on behalf of the Government, my sincere thanks to the noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Derby) for the generous and very useful speech he has this evening delivered. It is most beneficial to the interests of the nation that, irrespectively of political differences, sentiments such as those that have fallen from the noble Earl should have been heard from the Opposition benches, The
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speech will prove of great value in promoting in both branches of the service the conviction that party considerations do not affect the members of the naval and military professions, who may rest confidently assured that if they serve their country faithfully they will command the support and sympathy of all the great political parties of this country. It is also a particularly graceful part of the speech of the noble Earl, in which he spoke in such handsome terms of the gallant foreigners who came forward to take part in what they deemed a just and necessary war; and the allusion comes with singular grace from the noble Earl, remembering the part he took on former occasions when the question of foreign contingents was under consideration. The remarks he has made this evening will, I have no doubt, be read with interest and approval throughout Europe. What the noble Earl has said respecting the system that should be pursued in reducing the numerical strength of the Army has my cordial concurrence. The principles the noble Earl has laid down are those which influence the Government in general, and my noble Friend the Minister for War in particular, whose views are not to encourage the country in a lavish expenditure on military establishments, nor to keep up a larger Army than the nation requires, but, at the same time, to take care that such an efficient organisation shall be maintained as will allow the power and resources of the Army to be developed at the smallest possible expense and at the shortest possible notice, if, unfortunately, war should again arise.
EARL GREYsaid, that no one could agree to this Vote with greater pleasure than he should, and he should not have troubled the House with a single word but for something which fell from his noble Friend (Lord Panmure) in his concluding observations. He concurred with him in opinion that the reduction of the Army on the advent of peace should not be hasty, and that care should be taken to preserve the Army in a state of perfect organisation, and to provide for the instruction of officers and men in the duties of their profession. But though he agreed with his noble Friend to that extent, he was alarmed when his noble Friend added, that he hoped we should not fall into the mistake of former times of peace, by adopting a false economy with regard to the Army, although he said he did not blame any particular Government for that false economy. He

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(Earl Grey) differed from his noble Friend, and he would assert that the economy which had been adopted was not a false but a wise economy, which had contributed very much to the success of the present war. He was of opinion, and he had laboured for twenty years to impress on others that opinion, that our Army was not kept up in the manner in which it ought to be, and owing to the system of its administration, it was not prepared for the trials to which it was likely to be exposed, and failed when the day of trial came. He denied, however, that these difficulties arose from insufficient sums of money having been granted for the Army, and he would maintain that the grants made by Parliament from the time of Waterloo, down to the present war, were liberal and ample, if properly applied, to have kept the Army in a state of the highest efficiency. During that period the Government, pressed by the House of Commons, had exercised a wise economy in the expense of the Army and Navy, and to that much of our present success was attributable; for what was most remarkable in this war, and most contributed to convince Russia of our power, was the extraordinary resources which this country had accumulated during the period of peace, and had displayed when the time of war arrived. What could be more extraordinary than the rapidity with which ships, guns, and all the machinery of war had been produced by means of the resources which had grown up in those years during which we had followed the policy he had described? Did not every one believe that the large fleets, and the new species of means of warfare which had been created in a marvellously short space of time, had its effect upon the enemy? He had, himself, seen a floating battery, one of those extraordinary machines of war, cased in mail, and impervious to almost any shot, launched within three months after its keel had been laid down in a private establishment; and this was but one of several similar vessels which had been built by private firms in an equally short space; and gunboats in great numbers had been built with equally extraordinary rapidity. How was it that our private merchants had building yards and mechanical appliances which enabled them to create so powerful a force in so short a time? It was by the extraordinary development of industry, commerce, and manufactures during peace which had been fostered by the small demands
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which had been made by the State for military purposes. If anything could afford a striking proof of the wisdom of the policy which this country had pursued, it was the contrast between our position and that of Russia. The policy of Russia had been to keep up, at the expense of an immense pressure upon the resources of the people, an enormous military force. That force was a source of apprehension to many persons, but when the time of trial came it was found that it was not able to cope with those resources which nations that had acted upon a different policy had developed. If we were not misinformed, Russia was now convinced of her mistake, and saw that, to be really powerful, she must not press too heavily on the resources of her people in time of peace. That was the policy on which this country should act, and he protested against keeping up large military establishments. He would never consent to the policy of keeping up a large Army, ready at a short notice to take the offensive on the Continent. Nations were acted upon by much the same influences as individuals, and he believed that the possession of a too ready means of offence was likely to create a pertinacious spirit in a country. He thought, therefore, that we should only keep up an Army and Navy sufficient to keep off aggression; nor could he ever consent to keep up an establishment calculated for some supposed necessity for offensive operations out of the country. He should not have made these remarks but for the observations of his noble Friend.
Agreed to, Nemine Dissentiente.
Ordered, That The LORD CHANCELLOR do signify the said Resolutions, by Letter, to the Commissioners for executing the Office of Lord High Admiral of the United Kingdom and to the Field Marshal Commanding in Chief of Her Majesty's Forces.
Then it was moved to resolve—-
"That the Thanks of this House be given to the Officers of the several Corps of Militia which have been embodied in Great Britain and Ireland during the Course of the War, for the zealous and meritorious Services which at Home and Abroad they have rendered to their Queen and Country:
"That this House doth highly approve and acknowledge the Services of the Non-commissioned Officers and Men of the several Corps of Militia which have been embodied in Great Britain or Ireland during the Course of the War, and that the same be communicated to them by the Commanding Officers of the several Corps, who are desired to thank them for their patriotic Conduct."
LORD PANMUREsaid, that in moving that part of the Vote relating to the Militia, it might be a proper opportunity for him to state what the Government proposed to do as regarded that force when it was disembodied. It was proposed to add to the permanent staff, all the regimental quartermasters who at present held commissions, the effect of which would be to relieve the adjutant from the care of the stores, and give him more opportunity of attending to the arms and other duties of his department—a course which would tend to give greater efficiency to the staff. In the next place, as many of the subaltern officers had been put to considerable expense during the short period in which they had joined their regiments, it was proposed to allow them a gratuity of three months' pay. It was proposed to allow the surgeons and assistant surgeons, many of whom had lost their practice by being removed from their own localities, a year's pay, so as to give them an opportunity of recovering their practice. It was intended to allow to each man £1, the balance of the bounty of the current year, and which had not yet been received, on their being discharged. Directions to this effect were about to be sent to the Lord Lieutenants of counties and the colonels of militia regiments, but he thought it right to mention it to-night so that it might go forth to the public.
THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYinquired what strength of non-commissioned officers it was purposed to retain with the staff; was it to be nearly the strength of that which existed when the regiments were embodied?
LORD PANMUREsaid, that the number of non-commissioned officers to be attached to the permanent staff was under consideration, as the Government had not made up their minds on the subject.
Agreed to, Nemine Dissentiente.
Ordered, That the LORD CHANCELLOR do communicate the said Resolutions, by Letter, to the Secretary of State for the War Department, in order to be by him communicated to the Colonel or Commanding Officer of each respective Corps.

MARRIAGE LAW AMENDING BILL.
Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.
LORD BROUGHAM LORD BROUGHAM moved the second reading of this Bill, the main object of which was to prevent any marriage being contracted in Scotland, unless both parties
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were born in Scotland or had their most usual place of residence there, or had lived in Scotland for three weeks preceding the marriage. The present state of the law was productive of great mischief, by enabling parties who crossed the border from England into Scotland merely for the purpose of being married, to contract rash and improvident unions; and he greatly regretted that the English courts had departed from the principle laid down by Lord Mansfield, who held that such a proceeding was a fraudulent evasion of the law of England and ought not to be upheld. In consequence of that principle not having been maintained, these border marriages had much increased of late years, and, from the loose manner in which they were contracted, introduced great doubt and confusion in respect to the real condition of the parties and their issue. He went so far as to think, though the present Bill did not touch on that point, that some check ought to be imposed upon the hasty contraction of marriages in Scotland, without ceremony or notice, by persons domiciled there. He had been informed that a respectable gentleman in Scotland, whose two daughters went out to ride with a groom, found, to his infinite astonishment and no less infinite dismay, that one of them returned to his house an hour after and stated that the groom was her husband, and such a marriage was as perfectly valid by the law of Scotland as if it had been celebrated after proclamation of bans by a regular clergyman. The provision in the Bill respecting the power of Scotch courts to divorce he intended to strike out in Committee, as he did not anticipate the concurrence of the House on it.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.
LORD CAMPBELLsaid, he concurred with his noble and learned Friend as to the existence of the evil, but he did not think the Bill before the House was calculated to meet it. When parties went to get married there certainly ought to be some ceremony attendant upon or register of the transaction. But the Bill was susceptible of considerable alteration and amendment, and he would advise its withdrawal and reintroduction, for the purpose of effecting those changes, in preference to making them in Committee.
LORD ST. LEONARDSadmitted that if the object could be accomplished it was most desirable that the marriage law of Scotland should be placed on a better foundation

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than it was at present, and that such an abuse as Gretna-green marriages—those sudden flights to Gretna-green, and as sudden marriages—should be put an end to. The principle of the Bill contained in its first clause met with his entire concurrence; but the details of the measure certainly required consideration in Committee.
After a few words from Lord BROUGHAM,
Motion agreed to; Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the whole House on the First Sitting Day after the Recess at Whitsuntide.

THE MARQUESS OF DALHOUSIE— INDIAN PENSION.
THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE rose to ask, whether Her Majesty's Government had sanctioned the grant of a pension of £5,000 a year, chargeable upon the revenues of India, to the Marquess of Dalhousie, and to move for copies of any correspondence relating thereto? He did not object to the eminent services of Lord Dalhousie being acknowledged in any way Government and Parliament thought proper; but, considering the position in which the Court of Directors stood, he thought it was unconstitutional in them to grant away the revenue of India in this way, and equally unconstitutional in the Government to sanction it. It was an assumption of power beyond that which could be exercised, even by the Queen in Council, for it must be remembered, that the revenues of India belonged to this country and not to the Company. Their dividends were not affected by charges upon it. A liberal arrangement had been made to pay off their capital, and, meanwhile, to pay a fixed dividend, and the late Act declared that the British territories in India were continued under the Government of the Company only until Parliament should otherwise provide. The Government of India might be taken at any time out of their hands, and, therefore, to give a pension of £5,000 without the consent of Parliament was alike presumptuous and unconstitutional. If the late Governor General of India was entitled to a pension—which he did not now question—let it be voted in the usual way, out of the public funds. A Colonial Governor might return from the snows of Canada or the burning sun of Sierra Leone, after a service of ten or twenty years, with broken and shattered health; but the State gave him nothing, and there was no Court of Directors to vote him a pension.
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The pensions awarded to Ministers of State at home did not in any case exceed £2,000; and Lord John Russell had publicly stated that he never came under pecuniary obligations to any man until he became Prime Minister. That distinguished statesman was a remarkable instance of the manner in which it was the policy of the country to deal with its civil servants. He had served the country out of office for a long course of years; he had subsequently filled almost all the great offices of State, including that of the First Minister of the Crown; and yet nobody had ever proposed to confer a special pension upon him. So contrary was it, indeed, to the policy and feelings of public men that pensions should be given for civil services that, although two of those placed by Parliament at the disposal of the Crown, of £2,000 each, were now vacant, no person had come forward to claim them. When statesmen at home were treated in that way upon principle, he thought it was monstrous that the Court of Directors, the President of the Board of Control agreeing with them, or even the President of the Board of Control, the Court of Directors agreeing with him, should grant to a Governor General such a pension as was never offered to the highest personages in England. He expressed no opinion whatever upon the services of Lord Dalhousie; but there was no reason why Parliament should not vote whatever sum of money it pleased in reward of those services. What he complained of was an abuse of power on the part of the Court of Directors—an abuse for which he denied there was any precedent. The cases of Lord Wellesley and Lord Moira certainly afforded none. At that time, the revenues of India were the property of the East India Company, and, moreover, the Marquess of Wellesley had been entitled to a sum exceeding £100,000 of prize money, arising from the treasures found in Seringapatam, which he refused to receive; and it was in consideration of that, as well as of his great services as Governor General, that the East India Company voted him a pension of £5,000 for twelve years. In the case of Lord Moira, the Company had saved £140,000 by the union of the Commandership in Chief with the Governor Generalship. The pensions awarded to Lord Hardinge and Lord Gough bore no analogy to the present case, those pensions having been granted specifically for military services, and accompanied by elevation to the peerage.

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Moreover, the present state of the finances of India afforded little justification for such a gift, there being a deficit of £2,000,000 upon the revenue and expenditure of the last year—a condition of things which appeared to be becoming permanent. The system, of assessment pursued by the Indian Government forbade us to expect the slightest increase of land revenues, and the Reports of Parliamentary Committees showed that torture was obliged to be resorted to in order to wring from the unfortunate ryot such paltry contributions as 5½d. Did it become the body who raised its revenue in that mode to vote it away in pensions of £5,000 a year wholly without precedent? Some pecuniary compensation might properly enough have been awarded to the survivors of the wretched victims of the inhuman tax-gatherer; but that was not for a moment thought of by those who proposed this liberal and munificent grant—a grant which, he admitted, might have been very proper if contributed from funds belonging to those who recommended it. Without entering into any comparison between the administration of Lord Dalhousie and that of other Governors General, it was nevertheless to be desired that the Court of Directors should show as much appreciation of the services of men who devoted themselves to the social amelioration of India as they had evinced for the exertions of those who added to their territory and increased their political power. From the days of Lord Clive down to the present time no name connected with India was more distinguished than that of Lord William Bentinck, one of the most precious results of whose administration was the abolition of the suttee, and whose services might indeed have been well deserving of a pension. But a grant like the one under consideration, flying in the face of the recognized policy of this country and the deliberate judgment of Parliament, was wholly unwarrantable, and the Ministers of the Crown ought to refuse it their sanction. The noble Marquess concluded by moving—
"That there be laid before this House, Copies of any Correspondence or previous Communication which may have passed between the Board of Control and the East India Company with respect to the Grant of a Pension of £5,000 a Year chargeable upon the Revenues of India to The Marquess of Dalhousie."
EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, the very able statement of the noble Marquess raises two questions; first, whether it be
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legally competent for the Court of Directors to grant this pension; and next, whether the grant be expedient? I could hardly follow his argument on the first point; but I understood him to assert that, because certain words were introduced into an Act of Parliament determining that the existing constitution of the Indian Government should continue until the Legislature otherwise provided, the East India Company has now no power to give a pension like the present. But in this the noble Marquess is mistaken, because under the Continuing Act all the powers of the Company remain in force until altered by the Legislature. It is clear that this Act may, like any other, he repealed whenever Parliament thinks fit; but until it is repealed, it cannot be fairly contended that the powers it confers cease to have validity. Next, the noble Marquess says that if these pensions may be legally given to the Marquess of Dalhousie they may with equal legality be given to any one else. I believe that to be so—with this proviso, however, that they shall be subject to the very same conditions under which the pension has been given to Lord Dalhousie. Those conditions are that the pensions shall receive the sanction of two general Courts of Proprietors, that they shall be reported to the President of the Board of Control, who also shall signify his approval of them, and that, the warrants conferring them shall be presented to both Houses of Parliament within one month of the day on which the grants were made. As regards the question of expediency, the noble Marquess has himself borne testimony to the signal ability, sagacity, and judgment of Lord Dalhousie. It is not an easy matter for any Englishman to resist the temptation of referring in the language of enthusiastic commendation to the splendid talents and brilliant services of one of the ablest statesmen that this country has produced—a man of singular energy and capacity, whose vigour of mind has not been impaired, but whose powers of body have been completely shattered by the anxious and arduous toils in which he has for years been engaged. Abstaining, however, from the discussion of any such topics, I will content myself with reminding the noble Marquess that the President of the Board of Control is the Minister whose duty it is when he receives a report from the Court of Directors and Proprietors on the subject of a pension, carefully to consider all the reasons urged in favour of the grant,

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and to offer any suggestions that may occur to him on the subject. Regard being had to this fact, I do not know that, speaking in my official character as a member of the Government, it is competent for me to make any further observations on this question. The noble Marquess has asked for correspondence between the Government and the Court of Directors, but there is none. After the matter has been submitted to the two Courts of Proprietors and then to the Board of Control, there will be correspondence; but at the present moment there is no correspondence in existence.
The EARL OF ALBEMARLEexpressed his satisfaction that the question of the pension was not as yet irrevocably determined. He had no bias, political or personal, to induce him to support the Motion of the noble Marquess; he had never in his life seen Lord Dalhousie, and of his political opinions he knew nothing. He had heard, indeed, that the noble Marquess was claimed alike by the "Carleton" and the "Reform;" but how the fact might be he had not the slightest idea. For the talents of the noble Marquess he had a profound admiration, but he wished those talents to be available for the country, which they could not be if their possessor were to lie under the imputation of being the salaried advocate of an irresponsible Company, which must at no remote day be placed upon its trial, and on which it might be the duty of the noble Marquess to sit in judgment. If the proposed pension were to be derived from the revenues of this country, the matter might safely be left to the representatives of the people in the other House of Parliament; but such was not the fact. It was to be extracted from the revenues of the people of India, and he (the Earl of Albemarle) was there to plead the cause of those who had no representatives and but few friends. £5,000 in England was equivalent to £16,000 in India, and when the pecuniary ability of the contributors in both countries was taken into account, how different did the case appear! In England we had a free and opulent people bestowing their money as they pleased; in India, a set of miserable slaves from whom the taxes were extorted by tortures that made humanity shudder. A glance at the Blue-book presented to Parliament on the subject of torture in India would suffice to show that it was for defalcation in the most paltry sums—sums not exceeding two, five, ten,
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and twenty shillings—that the Natives of that country were compelled to endure the most terrific agony. The ability of the people of India to pay taxes had not kept pace with the population. The taxes had risen twenty-three per cent; but if they had kept pace with the increase of population they ought to have been sixty-five per cent. This proposition to grant a pension out of the impoverished resources of India was another flagrant proof of the mal-ad-ministration of the East India Company; and to whom was this pension proposed to be paid? To a Governor-General of India, under whose sway the system of torture had been continued. He would protest on the part of the people of India against the manner in which their funds were squandered.
THE EARL OF HARROWBYasked, upon what authority the noble Earl assumed that this pension had been sanctioned by the Government? The noble Earl must have heard the declaration of his noble Friend (Earl Granville) that he declined to give an opinion upon the subject; and yet, notwithstanding that declaration, up got the noble Earl and made a violent invective against the Government and against the East India Company, upon the assumption that this measure had already been carried into effect—whereas, in fact, it had not as yet even come under their consideration. It was not fair on the part of the noble Earl to bring all these matters of torture to bear upon such discussions. Let the noble Earl say, if he pleased, that it was not a wise thing to grant this pension; but what business had the noble Earl to say that this was a torture tax? It was not fair, when discussing the merits of the late Governor General of India, to import into that discussion a question of that kind, and to mix up the reputation of the Marquess of Dalhousie with all the horrible atrocities which had been recently disclosed to Parliament, and the public. The noble Earl must know that those things had not taken place with the sanction either of the Government of India or of the East India Company—he must know that they had taken place without the knowledge of Lord Dalhousie. It was not right that the noble Earl should make an attack of this kind, when he knew that the other side could not be heard, and when he must be aware that they were gagged until the question of granting a pension had been decided elsewhere. Parliament had pointed out the way in which these acts were to be done.

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In the first place, the pension must be proposed and approved by the East India Company, and it must then be sanctioned by the Board of Control, and not till then would the question come before Parliament and the Government. Was it fair, then, to bring charges against the Governor General on the assumption of this pension being granted, even before any preliminary steps had been taken on the subject? If he had spken with undue warmth on this occasion he begged his noble Friend's pardon, but he did not think it fair that the name of a man of such high character as that of the late Governor General of India should have such imputations cast upon it, and that charges of this kind should be bandied about before it was possible for that noble Marquess in any way to defend himself.
LORD PANMUREsaid, he should not have offered a single observation on this subject, had it not been that his noble Friend (the Earl of Albemarle) had assumed the authority of speaking in the name of the people of India. Now, he ventured to say that the manner in which the people of India, the real people of India, parted with his noble Friend the late Governor General when he left India, was far better evidence as to their feelings with reference to his administration of the affairs of India, than any knowledge which the noble Earl could possess on that point, upon any authority which he could adduce. Deeply concerned as he was in the honour of Lord Dalhousie, he accepted this movement of the East India Company not as the mere settlement of the question, but as a recognition of services rendered to that Company and to that body whom they represented by Lord Dalhousie during his administration. He (Lord Panmure) knew the honourable and noble feelings of that man, too well, to believe, that if he thought one atom of the sum proposed to be granted to him would come from the Natives of India in the manner described by the noble Earl, he would be the first to repudiate and reject every anna of that grant. The noble Earl had expressed his gratification that this proposition was not a fait accompli. With his knowledge of Indian affairs, he must have known that the proposition originated with the Court of Directors; the noble Earl must have known that the proposal of a pension required the approval of the Court of Proprietors; and also the sanction of a second Court of Proprietors
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upon the Report. Therefore, when this thing was thus hanging in the balance, he ought to have known that it was so, and not to have assumed any doubt upon the subject. The proposition was in the first place to be referred, as it were, to the Commons of India—to those who represented India and had the care of their concerns. They would judge, and in the first instance, decide upon it; after which, it would be referred to the Board of Control, which, with a free and unbiassed mind, would give its decision; and then the question would be ripe for the consideration of Parliament.
THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDEbegged to say, in explanation, that he had not discussed the merits of Lord Dalhousie; nor had he given any opinion as to the granting of a pension to the late Governor General of India. On the contrary, he distinctly said that he would guard himself against saying, whether such a pension should be granted by the Court of Directors or not. But what he did say was this, that he questioned whether the Court of Directors should make such a grant before the pleasure of Parliament was signified; and he had contended that the present was a more fitting time for discussing the question than after the granting of the pension, when it would be too late to remedy what had been done.
EARL GRANVILLEexplained that he did not object to any question being brought forward on any subject by an independent Peer, but he did not think that the noble Marquess had exercised a sound discretion in introducing this subject to the notice of their Lordships. After the answer which had been given by the Government, he would ask whether it was necessary that the noble Earl (the Earl of Albemarle) should go into a lengthened statistical statement, and introduce the question of torture, which appealed to the feelings and was calculated to lead their Lordships' attention away from the real question at issue? When the noble Earl, dwelling upon that subject, said that a pension was to be given to the very Governor General under whom the system of torture had been continued, he thought that such a statement justified a little warmth on the part of his noble Friend (the Earl of Harrowby), who, in common with most of their Lordships, was a real admirer of the high character of the Marquess of Dalhousie.
THE EARL OF ALBEMARLEexplained that it was not his intention to associate the name of the noble Marquess with the system of torture.
Motion (by leave of the House) withdrawn.
House adjourned till To-morrow.