Sitting of 27 July 1853

MINUTES.
NEW MEMBER SWORN.—For Derby County (Northern Division), William Pole Thornhill, Esq.
PUBLIC BILLS.—2° Duties on horses let for Hire; Hackney Carriage Duties.

LUNATIC ASYLUMS BILL.
Order for Committee read.
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 34 inclusive, agreed to.
Clause 35 (Assessment to local rates should not be increased after purchases for the purposes of this or any other Act).
MR. KENDALLsaid he wished to move the insertion of words which would have the effect of exempting the residences of all the officers and servants of asylums from rates. His object, he said, was to increase the inducement to parish officers to send pauper lunatics to the asylums, for he had found that nothing had that effect equal to low charges: and, as the charges per head were necessarily regulated according to the expenses of the establishment, he wished to reduce those as much as possible, in order to enable a reduction to be made in the rates of admission.
MR. BECKETT DENISONsaid, he objected to the introduction of the proposed exemption. He had never known an in-
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stance of the house of any person receiving a salary being entitled to exemption from rates.
Amendment negatived.
Clause agreed to.
Clauses 36 to 43 inclusive, agreed to.
Clause 44 (When any asylum can accommodate more than the lunatics of the county or borough, the visitors may order the admission of other lunatics).
SIR JOHN DUCKWORTHsaid, he thought that when paupers from other boroughs or counties were received into an asylum, or when persons who were not paupers became inmates of an asylum, some further charge should be made, beyond that for lodging, maintenance, clothing, medicine, and care, for the use of the building.
MR. WALPOLEsaid, he considered that the clause in its present form would enable the visitors to arrange the terms upon which lunatics who were not paupers should be received into the asylums.
MR. FRESHFIELDwould suggest that the terms upon which persons who were not paupers might be admitted into these asylums should be fixed or approved by the Secretary of State for the Home Department. He believed that at present the ordinary charge for lunatics belonging to the borough or county in which an asylum was situated was 8s. 6d. a week, and the charge for what might be called "foreign" lunatics, or lunatics not being paupers, was 14 s. a week.
MR. VERNON SMITHsaid, he agreed to the proposal that persons who were not paupers should be admitted into the county lunatic asylums, when there was accommodation in such asylums, upon an extra payment; but he considered that the treatment of such persons should be precisely the same as that of the pauper lunatics.
MR. WALPOLEsaid, he would consider the suggestion of the hon. Member for Exeter (Sir J. Duckworth), and would consent, when the Bill was reported, to the introduction of words which would meet his views.
Clause agreed to; as were also the subsequent clauses up to 94.
Clause 95 (Justices to make an order upon the officers of unions and parishes for maintenance of lunatics).
MR. FLOYERsaid, he had given notice to substitute for this and other clauses the following clause:—
"That it shall be lawful for the board of guardians of the union from some place or parish in

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which any pauper lunatic has been sent to an asylum, registered hospital, or licensed house, or in which any pauper lunatic has been so adjudged to be settled, to charge the expenses of the examination of such pauper lunatic, and of his conveyance to the asylum, hospital, or house, and the amount of such monies as may at any time be paid in pursuance of such before-mentioned order, to such parish or place in such union, or upon the common funds of the union, in such manner as the expenses of the relief of such pauper would haves been chargeable, if relieved on account of common sickness, and not as a lunatic, by any law or laws now or hereafter to be in force in respect of the relief of the poor."
SIR JAMES GRAHAMsaid, that the clause proposed by the hon. Gentleman would open up a subject which would require very much discussion. It would, if adopted, alter the whole law of parochial settlement itself. But in the present Session of Parliament it was impossible to discuss the question. It would, however, demand the attention of the House at the earliest moment in the next Session. He would, therefore, suggest that it would be better to allow the present clauses to stand, which made no alteration in the existing law, and not touch the principle of the law of settlement until it could be dealt with in an enlarged and comprehensive manner.
Amendment negatived.
Clause agreed to.
Remaining clauses agreed to; House resumed; Bill reported.
The House adjourned at ten minutes before Six o'clock.