Sitting of 23 February 1852

MINUTES.
NEW MEMBER SWORN,—John Isaac Heard, Esq., for Kinsale.

CLEOPATRA'S NEEDLE.
MR. HUMEsaid, the House would remember that last year he asked whether it was the intention of Her Majesty's Government to bring to England the obelisk known under the name of Cleopatra's Needle, which had been presented by the late Mehemet Ali, Pasha of Egypt, to George IV. A letter was addressed to the Pasha signifying the pleasure of George IV. to accept his present. A promise was made that inquiries should be instituted to ascertain the best means of transmitting the obelisk to England. At the request of several persons who were very anxious to have the obelisk brought to England, he wished to ask whether any steps had been taken for that purpose?
The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER,in answer to the question of the hon. Member, begged to say that last year inquiry was made by the Government as to the possibility of removing Cleopatra's Needle, and also whether it was worth while to remove it to this country. The answer received to that question, from the parties best qualified to give it, was, that they did not think it was worth while incurring the expense and trouble of bring-

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ing the obelisk to England. But upon this point the Government had not yet come to a decision.
MR. HUMEsaid, that the expense of removal would not exceed 10,000 l.

RESIGNATION OF THE MINISTRY.
LORD JOHN RUSSELLrose and spoke as follows:—Mr. Speaker;—Sir, after the occurrences of last Friday night the House will be prepared for the announcement I have now to make. At a meeting of Her Majesty's servants on Saturday we considered what course it was incumbent on us to pursue. It appeared to us that it was impossible for us to carry on satisfactorily the business of the Government in this House after the event of the preceding night. We considered the alternative of advising Her Majesty to use Her prerogative to dissolve Parliament. But we conceived that there were such grave objections to such a course, that we declined to advise the Crown to take that step. We therefore determined, promptly and humbly, to lay our resignations before Her Majesty, which I accordingly did on the same afternoon. Her Majesty was graciously pleased to accept our resignations, and has since sent for the Earl of Derby, who, I understand, has undertaken the task of forming a Government. And, therefore, we now only hold office until our successors are appointed by Her Majesty. Sir, after this statement, I do not wish to recur to the various events which have taken place since the commencement of the Session, and which may form, perhaps, the subject of debate hereafter. But, Sir, I cannot conclude what I have to say on this occasion, without expressing my sincere thanks to those hon. Gentlemen who have supported Her Majesty's Government, and who, during upwards of five years, have enabled me to sustain a burden to which, I must confess, I was otherwise totally unequal. Having their confidence, and having had the advantage of their support, I have been enabled, during that period, so to conduct affairs, that we shall not leave them, now, in any great branch of our domestic or our foreign relations, in a situation of which we need be at all ashamed. I wish further to say, with respect to one of my Colleagues to whom I am particularly indebted, that it is to the temperate wisdom and to the respected character of the Marquess of Lansdowne that the Government have owed the facility of being enabled to carry measures of great impor-
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tance through the House of Lords, where a Ministry composed of the party to which I belong does not usually command the support of a majority. Sir, as I have said I do not wish to recur to past events, or indeed to dwell upon anything which may raise a difference of opinion now in this House. As to the future, I shall only say that I shall think it my duty to oppose, out of office, as I have opposed in office, any restoration of the duties on corn, whether under the name of protection or of revenue. That I shall think it my duty to support an extension of the suffrage to those who are fitted to exercise the franchise for the welfare of the country, believing as I do that such an extension will add strength and solidity to our Parliamentary system. I will say further that I shall always use the little influence that I may possess, for the maintenance of the blessings of peace. I have only further to say that, since I came into the House, I have had a communication from the Earl of Derby, stating that it is his wish, for the convenience of the official arrangements which he has been charged to make by Her Majesty, that this House should adjourn till Friday next. In compliance with that wish, and for the promotion of the public convenience, I, therefore, now move that this House at its rising do adjourn to Friday next.
MR. HUMEsaid, it was only fit and proper that those who were entrusted with the formation of the Ministry should have time to make their arrangements. What he rose for was simply to express a hope that the House, when it met on Friday next, would have the opportunity of hearing from the new Ministry an explanation of the policy on which they proposed to carry on the Government. He said this because he had heard a rumour that it was intended that that House should not have the opportunity of meeting again. For himself, he was not wedded to party. If they brought in good measures he should support them, and if they brought in bad measures he should oppose them. He was not wedded to either party, but was the strenuous advocate of liberal measures, carrying out free trade further than it was now carried; and he could only say he should be sadly disappointed if he did not hear from Her Majesty's intended Ministers some explanation of what they meant to do. If they were hostile to free trade, let them have the candour to state it, but do not let them go to the country

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without a knowledge of what their policy was to be.
The House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock till Friday.

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILL.—1a Drainage and Embankment of Lands.

COUNTY COURTS FURTHER EXTENSION BILL—EXPLANATION.
LORD BROUGHAMsaid, he had taken into consideration certain suggestions which had been offered to him by some of his noble and learned Friends with respect to the County Courts further Extension Bill, and having also had some communication with County Court Judges, he was happy to say he thought they had been enabled to frame a clause which would meet the difficulty pointed out by a noble Friend of his, without falling into any other difficulty, on the important subject of costs. The ninth clause of the Bill had been by some thought to be sufficient, but it was not
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really sufficient, and it would be necessary to frame a different provision on the subject. At the bringing up of the Report he would propose a clause to meet the difficulty that had arisen on this important question.

RESIGNATION OF THE MINISTRY.
The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE: My Lords, I rise for the purpose of moving that the Order of the Day, which stands for Friday next, for the appointment of a Committee to consider the Affairs of the East India Company, be discharged. My Lords, in making that Motion, your Lordships will readily anticipate that the ground on which I make it is a circumstance which must be already known to all of your Lordships, namely, that all Her Majesty's present Ministers hold office only until their successors shall have been appointed. My Lords, in making this announcement, I certainly am most anxious to make no observation whatever calculated to excite any difference of opinion, or even to provoke any sort of discussion. I should wish so to abstain under any circumstances, but more especially in the absence of a noble Earl—a noble and much valued friend of mine in all times, though a political opponent—from whom I have within the last hour heard that he has accepted office, and is engaged in forming a new Administration—a task in which, although it is impossible for me to give him any assistance, I am sure I should he the last man to create in his path, were it even in my power, the slightest shade of impediment. I will say that it is not my wish to offer any obstruction to the formation of that or any other Administration under the present circumstances; for we have been of late daily informed that, independent of that Administration which is now being formed, there are concealed in this country many anonymous Administrations—equally able and willing to undertake the duty of conducting Her Majesty's affairs, but at the same time too modest to make their names known, as well as their pretensions. I have before this stated my opinion—and every hour's reflection since has confirmed that opinion—that the retention of office and the prolongation of official existence by a Government which does not obtain that amount and steadiness of support which are necessary to enable it to conduct with efficiency the Queen's affairs, not only ceases to be a good, but becomes productive of evil to the country.

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Therefore, my Lords, the very moment I was apprised by my noble Friend at the head of the Government, on Saturday morning, that in consequence of what had passed the night before, he was disposed without further delay to resign into Her Majesty's hands the trust that She had confided to him, I instantly signified my entire acquiescence in, and approbation of, that course being adopted; and I am authorised to state that when it was subsequently communicated on the same day to the rest of my Colleagues, they unanimously and unhesitatingly concurred in that opinion. My Lords, I do not know that on this subject it is necessary for me to say more. What I have said I have said on behalf of the Government with which I have been connected, and it is due to the Colleagues with whom I have bad the honour and happiness to act; but, my Lords, considering the position in which I feel myself to stand, and considering that it is, I will say most improbable—I ought perhaps to use a stronger word—that I should again under any circumstances address your Lordships from this bench, I may be permitted to add a few words upon that part of the communication I have to make to your Lordships. My Lords, although as long as I have life and health for it, I shall consider it a duty not to remain indifferent to the proceedings of this House upon the great impending questions in times most eventful, and which I am afraid will long continue to be eventful, although I may, in discharge of that duty, take some part in the discussions of the most momentous interest, and upon one of those questions if it should come hereafter to be presented to your Lordships—it will be most satisfactory to me to give my opinion on that question to your Lordships' House, unbiassed and untrammelled by any official relations; nevertheless, whilst attending for such objects, I think the time has arrived when I may reasonably dispense with a constant, or, if I may use the expression in reference to the situation I have held for several years past, a compulsory attendance upon the proceedings of this House. With that feeling I cannot sit down on this occasion without, in the first place, thanking all my noble Friends whom I now see sitting around me—both personal and political—for the warmth and cordiality of that support which from them I have constantly experienced. But, my Lords, I must also add that I shall quit this House deeply indebted to the
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House at large, and to the great majority—indeed, I will say to all the noble Lords opposite—for the invariable kindness, courtesy, and forbearance which each and every of them have displayed towards me. It has been my lot—and I hope it will always continue to be my lot—to see during that time generally observed in the proceedings of this House that absence of all violence of temper, that absence of all acrimony of feeling, which I am sure is essential to the dignity of your Lordships' House. If I have in any degree assisted to maintain it, it will he to me a source of constant satisfaction, convinced as I am that it is by observing that course and thus characterising your proceedings, your Lordships will best maintain that authority in the country which you derive from its constitution; an authority which, whatever may be said to the contrary, it ought to be the wish of all the sane part of this country you should continue to enjoy. I say of the sane part of this country, because all that portion at least of the public has had occasion within the last few years to see that there is no country with institutions more or less similar to those which give your Lordships a place here, and where these institutions have been hastily abolished, in which after the lapse of a few years, it has not been found most desirable to reconstruct them, but in which it has not been at the same time found that it is much more easy to destroy than to create. I entertain the most ardent hope that under whatever Government this country is placed, your Lordships will continue to maintain a course which entitles you to the respect of the country. I am confident that by deserving that respect you will continue to obtain it. My Lords, having ventured to say this much in stating to you the situation in which I now find myself, I have only to add that it is my intention to propose to your Lordships that, on rising to-night (if I bear of no objection to it), the House shall adjourn till Friday. After the communication I have had from the noble Earl, and to which I have alluded, it is necessary to take this course; but if there be any judicial business, or any business of an ordinary character that it may be found convenient to attend to, I conceive there can be no objection to your Lordships adjourning from day to day, with the perfect understanding that until Friday next no public business shall be transacted. I do not make my Motion at present until I hear

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whether there is any objection to the course I propose to take.
THE EARL OF MALMESBURY: My Lords, though it may appear unbecoming in me to offer any remarks on the observations that have been made by the noble Marquess opposite, I cannot refrain from expressing my conviction that, on this side of the House, we feel both pride and pleasure at the manner in which the noble Marquess has addressed your Lordships. We cannot but feel pride and pleasure when the noble Marquess has told us that on both sides of the House, during the political contests which have raged, he has witnessed a desire to give neither pain nor offence, and that those constant examples of courtesy and dignity have been given by your Lordships which are so becoming and necessary in every Member of your Lordships' House. I am sure I can on the other side say with truth, that I have never seen any other than a similar example of courtesy and dignity displayed by the noble Marquess. I trust that the words which the noble Marquess has spoken to-day will long be remembered by your Lordships, as coming, I think, from the highest authority in this House, both in experience, in dignity of bearing, and in courtesy of manner. In times of difficulty, and in the discussion of exciting questions, I trust his words will be remembered, not only by those who have had the same experience as the noble Marquess, but also by my younger Friends behind me, because I am convinced that nothing but good can arise from the words which the noble Marquess has spoken to-night. I have only to hope that if the course of events should prevent the noble Marquess from again occupying the bench on which he is now sitting, we shall not, at all events for many years, lose the great, the valuable, and the important assistance which he is capable of giving us in our deliberations, and that he will long continue to afford us, in this deliberative assembly, the benefit of his advice, and the valuable examples of his virtues and of his eloquence.
LORD CAMPBELLsaid, that of course, in the present state of affairs, it would be quite improper that their Lordships should consider any question of a party or political nature; but there was a Bill about going before Committee, for improving the Procedure of the Courts of Common Law, which men of all political parties supported. It was of great importance that that Bill should pass, because the day was fixed for
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its coming into operation in the Bill itself, namely, the 15th of April, the first day of next term. He begged therefore to move that the Committee on that Bill might meet notwithstanding any adjournment of the House, and that proposition would not at all interfere with the Motion of his noble Friend.
THE LORD CHANCELLORobjected to the proposition of the noble and learned Lord. The Bill was of importance, involving questions of vast interest, and he could not therefore accede to the Motion.
LORD CAMPBELL: After the observation of my noble and learned Friend, I shall withdraw my Motion.
The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE: As my noble and learned Friend (Lord Campbell) has yielded to the objection of my noble and learned Friend on the woolsack, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn until Friday.
House adjourned to Friday next.