Sitting of 26 July 1851

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1° Metropolitan Interment; New Zealand Settlement.
Reported—Battersea Park Amendment and Extension.
3° Consolidated Fund (Appropriation); Representative Peers for Scotland.

IMPROVEMENT OF TOWNS (IRELAND) BILL.
Order for Committee read.
SIR ROBERT FERGUSONsaid, he wished to ask whether the Government had any intention of passing this Bill in the present Session? If they had not that intention, he hoped that the time of the House would not be uselessly taken up by discussing the 330 clauses which were in the Bill.
The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERsaid, that many Gentlemen connected with Ireland wished the Bill to proceed, and he must deprecate any preliminary discussion, which would only have the effect of postponing it for the present Session.
House in Committee.
Clauses 1 to 85, inclusive, agreed to.
Clause 86 being read, which provided that any person keeping any house of entertainment, who knowingly permitted any prostitute or thief to remain therein, should be liable to a fine of 5l.,
MR. REYNOLDSsaid, he must protest against so arbitrary a clause, which could never be enforced. If it were attempted to be carried out in London, it would have the effect of shutting up three-fourths of the houses of entertainment and taverns of the metropolis, as it would place them at the mercy of any common informer. He moved, therefore, that the Clause be expunged.
MR. HATCHELLsaid, he agreed with the hon. Gentleman that the Clause was too stringent. He should be content to leave the matter in the hands of the justices, who had the power, in cases of misconduct, of withdrawing the licence.
COLONEL CHATTERTONsaid, it would be utterly impossible by such means to put down the evil.
MR. G. A. HAMILTONsaid, the clause was evidently a Scotch one.
MR. SERJEANT MURPHYsaid, the question had been well considered in the Metropolitan Police Act, and no interference was permitted where these parties behaved themselves properly.
Clause struck out.
Clause 87 to 119 inclusive, agreed to.
On Clause 120, regulating the hours at which bathing should be allowed,
MR. REYNOLDSsaid, he saw some Scotch morality in this Clause, or rather an attempt to establish morality by Act of Parliament. The Clause provided a penalty upon parties indecently exposing themselves when bathing; but he should be glad to know how persons bathing were to avoid this. He could not understand it, and thought the clause might be omitted with safety.
SIR WILLIAM SOMERVILLEsaid, he must support the Clause, which he considered very essential.
MR. NAPIERsaid, he must complain of the nuisance of bathing, which prevented persons taking exercise in the early part of the day. There were hundreds of persons to be seen daily bathing in the Serpentine in broad daylight.
MR. REYNOLDSwould remind the hon. and learned Gentleman that the moral hours in the Serpentine were after eight in the morning, and up to eight at night, within which time no persons were permitted to bathe. The present Clause was an insinuation against the morality of the people of Ireland, and they were attempting to bind her up by Act of Parliament. It was a libel on the country.
DR. POWERsaid, that the steamers going down the river at Cork were greatly
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inconvenienced by the number of men and boys bathing, who approached so near the vessels that it was impossible for females to look over the sides.
SIR DENHAM NORREYSsaid, he should support the Clause. Penalties were necessary to protect the public.
Mr. GOOLDsaid, if the ladies on board these steamers were annoyed, it was their own fault. Why could they not look in another direction?
Motion made, and Question put, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."
The Committee divided:—Ayes 38; Noes 8: Majority 30.
Clause agreed to; as were Clauses 121 to 171, inclusive.
Clause 172.
MR. G. A. HAMILTONmoved, that the Clauses from 172 to 181 inclusive, be struck out of the Bill. The Clauses related to markets, and he contended that the question of markets was one which ought to be treated on a much wider basis, and not to be legislated upon piecemeal.
SIR WILLIAM SOMERVILLEwas willing to consent to the omission of the Clauses 172 and 173, because he believed they were imperfect, and he thought it might be better to introduce a separate measure on the subject next year.
MR. ROCHEconsidered that the whole subject of markets should be taken up by the Government, and dealt with in a comprehensive measure to be introduced early next Session, so as to afford an opportunity for fully discussing the question.
MR. SCULLYsupported the Clauses as an instalment of justice to the agriculturists of Ireland.
The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERsaid, the simple question was, were the Clauses to be left out, and a separate measure introduced for the regulation of the markets, or were they to remain, and to be amended or modified next Session? It did not much matter which result was obtained; but he wished to suggest that if a division was to take place on the Motion, it would be as well to divide at once.
Motion made and Question put, "That the Clause as amended stand part of the Bill."
The Committee divided:—Ayes 29; Noes 10: Majority 19.
Clause agreed to; as were also Clauses 173 to 180, inclusive.
On Clause 181, which provided for the regulation of the sale of butter,
MR. SERJEANT MURPHYmoved, that

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the city of Cork be excepted from the operation of this clause. At the Cork butter market a system of weighing had long been established which had raised that market to a state of great prosperity and of well-deserved celebrity throughout Ireland; and that system had never once been made the subject of complaint. Now, this clause would have the effect of compelling parties living withing four miles of any town included in the Bill, to have their butter weighed by a totally new system. The clause would, therefore, be an officious interference with an existing system which worked admirably and gave general satisfaction; and as he believed it could only be attended with mischievous consequences, he proposed that the city of Cork should be exempted from the operation of this clause.
SIR WILLIAM SOMERVILLEconsented to the Motion, and the city of Cork was exempted accordingly.
The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERthen moved that the Chairman report progress. The Committee had been going on with the clauses relating to markets irregularly, because it was necessary that an instruction should have been given to the Committee to introduce these clauses, and that preliminary step had never been taken. If progress was reported, however, that omission could be repaired.
House resumed; Committee report progress.
The House adjourned at Four o'clock.