Sitting of 24 February 1851

MINUTES.
NEW MEMBER SWORN.—For Stafford County (Northern Division), Smith Child, Esq.
NEW WRIT.—For Harwich, v. the Rt. Hon. Sir John Cam Hobhouse, Bart., Chiltern Hundreds.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1a Ecclesiastical Residences (Ireland); Churches and Chapels (Ireland); United Church of England and Ireland.

THE MINISTERIAL CRISIS—EXPLANATION —WAYS AND MEANS.
Order of the Day for the Committee of Way and Means read.
LORD J. RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, I promised the House that I would, on this day, state the reasons that induced me to propose, on Friday last, the adjournment of the Committee of Ways and Means to the present time. I now rise to acquit myself of that engagement. The House will remember that, immediately after the commencement of the Session, a Motion was made by the hon. Gentleman the Member for Buckinghamshire, calling on Her Majesty's Ministers to take immediate measures to relieve the distress of the owners and occupiers of land. Every Member of this House, and every person in the country, must have considered that that Motion was a Motion to take out of the hands of the Government the conduct of the measures which the Government might think it fit to propose. The hon. Member for Buckinghamshire took a perfectly Parliamentary course on that subject. He stated that, having appealed to the Government on former occasions, he now appealed to the House. I do not in the slightest degree complain of the course the hon. Gentleman took; but I stated what must have been the effect in the view of every one if the Motion had been successful. Sir, 269 Members of this House voted for that Motion, and 283 Members voted against it. There was, therefore, a majority of those persons present in the House of 14 Members against it. Now,

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Sir, upon a question of that kind, brought forward in hostility to the Government at the very commencement of the Session, the Chancellor of the Exchequer having given notice that he would bring forward his financial statement for the year in two days after, a majority of 14 must tend to weaken any Government which had so small a majority in the House of Commons; but it appeared to me that, although that majority was small, yet, if there was a determination in all the Members of that majority to maintain the principles of commercial policy, which, in effect, were in question on that day, that this union might have made up for the smallness of the majority, and that the Government might have conducted successfully the affairs of the country. But, on the 20th of February, a Motion was made in reference to a certain question of Parliamentary reform; and on that question, and in a thin House of little more than 150 Members, the Government was beaten by a majority of nearly two to one. Now, observe, if that had occurred in ordinary circumstances, I might have thought it owing to the hour and to the thinness of the House that those in favour of the Motion should have attended, and that those who were not in favour of it were not present; but that, on the second reading of the Bill, which the House then gave leave to introduce, the latter would attend and make a majority in accordance with the view taken by Government on this subject expressed through me as its organ; but, in the actual circumstances in which we were placed, I did consider that, although hon. Members might have voted entirely with reference to that particular question which was before them, and not at all upon any general views of policy, I did not think that, although that might have been their intention, yet that, in effect, having the whole of the financial and other measures of the Government before us, and having a probability, which I was inclined to believe in, that, on other measures, and on other incidental questions, we might meet with similar defeats, I came to the conclusion that the Government was not in a position to conduct satisfactorily the business of the country in this House during the forthcoming Session. I thought it was for the public interest that, if this were the case, the House should not enter into discussions on financial measures, and be led to form opinions on those questions when it was not so probable that the Go-
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vernment should be able successfully to go through the Session. I thought, likewise, that it was a very dangerous, and that it was a very disadvantageous, thing for the country, that a Government should continue liable to defeats from time to time, having but a small majority at any time, and therefore carrying on a kind of lingering existence during a great part of the Session. I therefore assembled the Members of the Cabinet, and I stated to them it was my opinion the best course we could take, as a Ministry, was, to forward our resignations to Her Majesty, and enable Her Majesty to form another Administration. My Colleagues who were present in the Cabinet concurred with me in that opinion; but one very important Member of the Cabinet (the Marquess of Lansdowne), the Lord President of the Council, was at that time absent in the country, and I did not like to forward our resignations to Her Majesty on that day, and I therefore asked the House, on Friday, to consent to an adjournment to this day. Early on the following morning, the Marquess of Lansdowne reached town, and met me at Buckingham Palace. He informed me he entirely concurred in the view I took. I therefore proceeded at once to Her Majesty, to lay before Her Majesty the unanimous resignations of the Members of the Administration. Her Majesty was graciously pleased to accept those resignations, and was pleased also to inform me it was Her intention to send immediately to Lord Stanley for the purpose of intrusting him with the charge of forming a Government. I was informed later in the afternoon that I was required to proceed to Buckingham Palace, and I was then informed by Her Majesty that Lord Stanley had stated that he was not then prepared to form a Government. Her Majesty then asked me to undertake the charge of reconstructing a Government which might be able to obtain the confidence of the House. I thought it my duty, under those circumstances, to attempt that task. I have, therefore, assured Her Majesty that I would undertake it. I am perfectly aware of the many difficulties which surround that task, but I shall only add to those difficulties and be acting most improperly if I were to state anything further at present. I have only further to request that the House, without passing now to any discussion, or forming any judgment with respect to what has taken place, will adjourn to Friday next, when I trust some

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definite resolution may have been come to, and when I shall either have succeeded in or have abandoned the task I have undertaken, and in either case the House will know what is likely to be the result. Sir, I move that this Order of the Day be adjourned to Friday next.
MR. DISRAELI: Sir, it is not my intention to trespass on the House, but after the statement made by the noble Lord, I must address it for a minute. It is most true, and a matter of public notoriety, that Lord Stanley has had an audience of Her Majesty; and when Lord Stanley shall have Her Majesty's gracious permission to state what transpired during that audience, he will do so publicly and in a constitutional manner, in his place in Parliament. There is, however, one observation made in the statement of the noble Lord which my duty will not permit me to allow to pass unnoticed. When the noble Lord states that Lord Stanley stated to Her Majesty that he was not prepared to form an Administration—
LORD J. RUSSELL: Not then prepared.
MR. DISRAELI: "Was not then prepared"—that correction of the noble Lord does not at all affect what I wish to state to the House. I must express my conviction that when the noble Lord says that Lord Stanley stated to Her Majesty that he was not then prepared to form an Administration, the noble Lord has made a statement to the House which, on further reflection, I think he will acknowledge was not founded on what really occurred.
LORD J. RUSSELL: After what the hon. Gentleman has stated, I can only say that Lord Stanley will, no doubt, at a proper time, when he shall think fit—having received the permission of Her Majesty—make a full statement of all that has occurred. And, I believe, that Lord Stanley's statement will fully bear me out in what I have said respecting the noble Lord.
MR. ROEBUCK: Sir, I am anxious to make an observation on the extraordinary state of affairs in which we are now involved. We are about to adjourn until Friday. The noble Lord, it appears, is about to reconstruct his Cabinet. But the noble Lord may fail in the task he has undertaken; and then, without the House of Commons having the slightest opportunity of expressing any feeling of its own, Her Majesty, I believe, in all probability, will be obliged—if I may use the phrase—to
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send for somebody to make an Administration. I do hope that the noble Lord who has hitherto acted as the leader—not simply of a great party, but as leading and representing a great principle—will not forget in all those proceedings that are about to take place that that principle is now in his hands; and that, in a great measure, what will hereafter take place in respect to the great principle of our financial arrangements here, will depend upon his particular course of action, and on him will rest this responsibility—that we, perhaps, have again to resume the great fight of free trade.
The Committee deferred till Friday.
House adjourned at a quarter after Five o'clock till Friday.

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1a Prevention of Offences.
2a Appointment of a Vice-Chancellor.

THE MINISTERIAL CRISIS—EXPLANATION.
The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE,having delivered the report of the Metropolitan Commission of Sewers, said: My Lords, as there is no business before the House, I may as well at once take this opportunity of moving, that this House at its rising do adjourn to Friday next. In making that Motion, I feel that however imperfect and insufficient any communication which it is in my power to make, may be found to be, relating to the present posture of affairs, it is due to this House that any information given, or communication made upon that subject to the other House of Parliament, should in substance be made to this House also. But in doing so I shall confine myself simply to a statement of the facts as I understand them. My Lords, on Friday last, in consequence of divisions which had recently taken place in the other House of Parliament, Her Majesty's servants communicated with each other—from domestic circumstances I was not one of the persons communicated with on that occasion—and on that day Her Majesty was led to believe that it was probable that Her servants would resign on the day following. Early on Saturday morning I came to
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town, and that resignation was respectfully and unanimously tendered by Her Majesty's servants to Her Majesty. In the course of the same day the noble Lord whom I see present (Lord Stanley), was, as I am informed, invited to attend at the Palace, and a proposal was made to him to construct a Government. I am informed that the noble Lord stated that he was not then prepared to form one. On that communication being made, recourse was had to other persons, and more particularly to my noble Friend lately at the head of the Government, and he was requested to reconstruct an Administration. My Lords, this is the present state of things, and all that it is in my power to state to your Lordships is, that my noble Friend lately at the head of the Government has, on reflection, thought it to be his duty towards Her Majesty, and towards the public, to attempt the reconstruction of another Cabinet. Beyond this I have nothing to say. I speak as the organ of a Government which, in fact, exists no longer; a Government which is, in fact, nominal only; and of which I am the representative here only so long as it remains nominally in office, and for the purpose of making this communication.
LORD STANLEY: My Lords, after the statement made by the noble Marquess, none of your Lordships, I am sure, will be disposed to offer any opposition to the proposal which he has made, that the House should adjourn from this time till a later day, or at least that in the meantime no public business of importance shall be discussed. My Lords, I am exceedingly unwilling, and shall not attempt, to offer any comment on the statement made by the noble Marquess: circumstanced as the country now is, it is impossible that a complete revelation should be made of what has occurred; and in the present state of things, I do not hold it to be consistent with my duty to offer any explanation or information which must of necessity be of an imperfect character. I will now only say, that on Saturday I had the honour of a lengthened audience with Her Majesty, in which I laid before Her Majesty fully and unreservedly the whole of my views on the state in which the country and political parties are now placed. Nothing could exceed the graciousness, the condescension, and kindness (if I may use the word) of manner of Her Majesty throughout. But of what passed at that interview, either what advice I humbly tendered to

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Her Majesty, or what was stated by Her Majesty, at the present moment, I think I should ill requite the confidence and favour with which I have been honoured, if I were to say a single word. When the time shall come—when this political crisis shall have passed—I shall be prepared to state fully and unreservedly to your Lordships and to the country the whole substance of the advice which I tendered, and the course which, as a public man, as one honoured with the confidence of Her Majesty, and as a Privy Councillor, I felt it my duty to recommend.
The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE: After the forbearance which the noble Lord has exercised, it would unquestionably be improper to deprive him of the opportunity of fully and fairly stating what has passed, when the convenient time for doing so shall arrive, in the way which he shall judge most fitting for his honour and most conducive to the public good. In the meantime all I beg of your Lordships is, to believe that I have, in the very short statement I made, said nothing but that of which I was distinctly informed.
The EARL of ST. GERMANSproposed that the House should meet to-morrow, for the purpose of proceeding with the second reading of the Marriages Bill. It was a measure in which a large number of persons out of doors felt a lively interest, and as it embraced no political object, he thought there could be no objection to go on with it to-morrow.
LORD CAMPBELLstrongly concurred with the noble Earl in asking their Lordships to let the measure to which he referred be discussed to-morrow. It was a measure totally unconnected with party or political questions; it was purely a social and religious question; and his humble opinion was that there was no impropriety, notwithstanding the present posture of affairs, in the House taking the debate on the second reading of the Bill to-morrow.
The ARCHBISHOP of CANTERBURYsaid, if there was no Parliamentary objection to the request, he would add his humble wish that the measure should be proceeded with to-morrow.
The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEsaid, their Lordships well knew it was not usual for the House to continue their sittings under the peculiar circumstances that at present existed. He could not, however, deny that there was great force in what was stated by the noble Earl, and con-
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firmed by his noble and learned Friend, and the most reverend Prelate, as to the expediency of having a discussion of this measure to-morrow. He would accede to the proposal of the noble Earl, on the understanding that no other subject of discussion should be introduced, so far qualifying the proposition as to leave them afterwards at liberty to arrange when they should sit again.

APPOINTMENT OF A VICE-CHANCELLOR BILL.
LORD LANGDALE: My Lords, I move your Lordships to give a second reading to the Bill for the appointment of a Vice-Chancellor in the room of Sir James Wigram.
It seems useless, and would therefore, be improper for me to occupy any time in proving a fact now universally admitted, that the assistance of an additional Judge in the Court of Chancery is necessary. It is acknowledged, not only by the unfortunate suitors whose causes (ready for hearing) cannot now be heard, but by all who know anything upon the subject—by Judges, Counsel, and Solicitors. I think that, without exception, I have never known so great an unanimity upon such a subject.
It seems also unnecessary to state at length the causes which have led to the great arrear of business which now exists. Whatever the causes may have been, there is an arrear which plainly obstructs justice; and I submit to your Lordships, it is the duty of Parliament to provide a remedy. Some indication of the cause may, however, be of use.
One cause, undoubtedly, is to be found in the interruption to business which was occasioned by the illnesses of the Lord Chancellor, and of two of the Vice-Chancellors during so long a period of the last year—and in the absence of any usual and regular means possessed by the Court of Chancery, of providing judicial assistance during such occasional interruptions.
But a still greater cause of the existing arrears is, in my opinion, to be found in the nature, weight, and complication of the new business which has lately been thrown upon the Court—partly by the Acts of Parliament which are called the Winding-up Acts, and partly by the great litigation which has arisen from the transactions of railway companies and other joint-stock companies; and the great uncertainty of the law applicable to such companies and their transactions. The Legislature has

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constituted, or sanctioned the companies, and has connected the transactions of many of them with the performance of important public duties; but has not, or, if ever, has rarely, pointed out the extent to which, or the manner in which, the jurisdiction of the Courts of Law and Equity is to be applied to the cases which arise.
The Court of Chancery having jurisdiction to apply the law relating to partnerships, constituted for purposes unconnected with the discharge of public duties, and consisting of a limited number of partners, is continually applied to for its interposition and assistance in eases supposed to be similar, with reference to the transactions of partnerships consisting of an indefinite number of persons, and frequently constituted for public purposes, or connected with duties of public obligation; and the difficulties which arise are such that in very many cases, the Judge before whom they first come, can neither know what the Legislature (which has not spoken) intended to leave to his decision or judgment—or what may even probably be the view which may be taken of the subject by any other Judge before whom the same or like cases may be brought.
In such cases it can hardly be said with truth, that there is any law at all—any rule of right or wrong. And until the numerous and perplexing questions which are constantly arising shall be settled by authority, or some legislative remedy shall be provided, I am afraid that cases of this kind will occasion arrears which the remedy I now propose cannot prevent.
I have mentioned the subject, in the hope that the attention of your Lordships may be directed to it on some future and not remote occasion.
But for the present, assuming that your Lordships will not doubt the necessity of giving to the Lord Chancellor the assistance of an additional Judge, in the room of Sir James Wigram, whose loss is so deeply regretted by the profession and the public—and being myself of opinion that every day's delay is a grievous and unnecessary, and therefore, indefensible obstruction to the course of justice in the Court of Chancery—I gave notice of my intention to move for the suspension of the Standing Orders, in the hope of passing the Bill quicker than it could otherwise proceed. I regret to find that this proposition is not acceded to, and that further delay cannot be avoided; but as such is the case, I must content myself with mov-
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ing, "That this Bill be now read a Second Time."
Bill read 2a.
Then the Order of the Day for taking into consideration the Standing Orders Nos. 37 and 38 was read, and discharged; Committee negatived; and Bill to be read 3a on Friday next.
House adjourned till To-morrow.