Sitting of 10 August 1850

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1a Church Building Acts Amendment.
2a Savings Banks Act (Ireland) Continuance.
Reported.—Savings Banks Act (Ireland) Continuance.
3a Spitalfields and Shoreditch New Street; Inspection of Coal Mines; Transfer of Improvement Loans (Ireland); General Board of Health (No. 3); Law Fund Duties (Ireland); Friendly Societies; Savings Banks Act (Ireland) Continuance.

INSPECTION OF COAL MINES BILL.
Order for Third Reading, read.
MR. FORSTERcomplained that this Bill had been galloped through its previous stages in a most unseemly way, which precluded all discussion upon it. He should not oppose the Bill; but it was very necessary to caution the public and the workmen in collieries against relying upon it as a substitute for that caution, prudence, and personal vigilance which alone could prevent those fatal accidents. If, relying on the Bill, they relaxed that care which alone could secure them against danger, the most fearful results might follow. In the case of the large collieries, like that with which he was himself connected, the Bill must be a dead letter, because they had as competent inspectors always on the spot as could be found by the Government to act under the Bill. In their workings they employed 1,500 men and boys, and for the last fifteen years their casualties had not exceeded on an average more than one man a year. The same caution and the same system prevailed in the other large collieries belonging to the Earl of Durham, the Marquess of Londonderry, and others. Then, with respect to the smaller collieries, he very much doubted whether the Bill would not do more harm than good in their case, by removing a portion of the responsibility from the owners to the Government inspectors. This sort of legislative interference with trade was most dangerous, particularly in a case of this kind, where you attempt to supply individual care and prudence by Act of Parliament, which is impossible. But it was most important that it should go forth to the workmen that there was nothing in this Act to protect them against the consequences of their own reckless imprudence, and that any reliance upon it for that purpose would be most fatal to their own security.
Read 3°; Amendments made; Bill passed, with Amendments.

COPYRIGHT OF DESIGNS BILL—EXHIBITION OF 1851.
Order for Committee read.
COLONEL SIBTHORPsaid, that in consequence of the unsatisfactory replies given by the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the First Minister of the Crown, to questions respecting the expenditure of public money for the Exhibition of 1851, he begged to repeat the questions he had already put on this subject. He had a right to call
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on the Government to state whether they intended to propose a grant of public money for this purpose or not, and he considered it most unfair and unparliamentary in Ministers to refuse a distinct answer. He thought it would be a gross abuse of the public funds to give one sixpence for such a purpose. Let them say at once, in plain terms, whether they meant to give anything or not. The articles to be imported for this Exhibition were to be admitted without duty, and though it was pretended that when they were taken out and sold the duty was to be paid, he ventured to say they would be allowed to be sold without any duty at all. Where there was a will there was a way. There was such a thing as a Government seal, and smuggling might be permitted. He should feel bound to move a resolution "that it is expedient not to advance or expend any sums of public money for the purpose of carrying into operation the works of the proposed Exhibition of 1851," and he should divide the House upon it, unless he had a distinct declaration from Ministers that they would not make any proposition to the effect he had stated.
MR. SPEAKERinformed the hon. and gallant Member that the House could not entertain his Amendment, as the Bill before the House was for amending the Act relating to the copyright of designs, and there was nothing in the preamble which concerned the Exhibition of 1851.
COLONEL SIBTHORPsaid, he had had his say, and did not care.
House in Committee; the several clauses agreed to.
House resumed.
Bill reported, with Amendments; as amended, to be considered on Monday.
MR. LABOUCHEREsaid, that he should move the third reading, as well as the report, on Monday.
COLONEL SIBTHORPobjected to this as a most unusual course.
MR. SPOONERthought it would be much more satisfactory to the public, if they had a distinct statement from the noble Lord at the head of the Government that no public money would be required for the purposes of this Exhibition.
SIR H. WILLOUGHBYbegged to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he had any objection to give an assurance to this effect?
The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERsaid, on this as on other occasions on which the subject had been broached, he must refuse to give any such pledge or

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promise as was demanded of him, and he hoped the hon. Member would not press his request. He had only to say that means had been taken for providing for the whole expense of this Exhibition. His noble Friend and himself had said so, he would not say how often in the course of this Session, but certainly very often, and nothing had occurred to make any changes in their views and intentions on the matter necessary.
The House adjourned at half-after Two o'clock till Monday next.

MINUTES.
A CONFERENCE.—General Board ot Health (No. 2) Bill; Small Tenements Rating Bill.
PUBLIC BILLS.—la Friendly Societies; Law Fund Duties (Ireland); Transfer of Improvement Loans (Ireland); Medical Charities (Ireland); Spitalfields and Shoreditch New Street; General Board of Health (No. 3).
2aa Customs; Stamp Duties (No. 2); Assessed Taxes Composition; Assizes (Ireland).
Reported.—National Gallery (Edinburgh); Marlborough House; Duke of Cambridge's Annuity; Consolidated Fund Appropriation; Police Superannuation Fund; Decrees of Court of Chancery as to Real Estate vested in Married Women.
3aa Turnpike Acts Continuance, &c (No. 2); Fisheries; Mercantile Marine (No. 2); Grand Jury Cess (Ireland); Registrar of Judgments Office (Ireland); Municipal Corporations (Ireland) (No. 2).
Their Lordships met, and some Bills were forwarded, without debate.
House adjourned to Monday next.