Sitting of 27 August 1846

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1o. Arrest on Mesne Process.
PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Mr. Villiers, from Secular Clergymen and Laymen of the Congregation of Sedgley Park, in the Parish of Sedgley, professing the Roman Catholic Religion, praying that the Roman Catholic Relief Bill may pass into a Law.—By Mr. James Oswald, from Importers, Dealers, and Consumers of Foreign Coffee, praying that the Duty on Foreign Coffee may be reduced to Fourpence per Pound.—By Mr. Villiers, from certain Merchants and Corn Dealers of the Port of Liverpool, complaining of an Error in the Corn Bill respecting the Mode of levying the Duties on Rye, Peas, and Beans, and praying the House to pass an Amended Enactment.—By Sir William Somerville, from Richard Madden, of the City of Dublin, praying the House to institute due Inquiry into the System of granting City Attachments in Ireland, with a view to its Total Abrogation.—By Mr. James Oswald, from Directors of the Chamber of Commerce and Manufactures, established by Royal Charter, in the City of Glasgow, against the Joint Stock Banks (Scotland and Ireland) Bill.—By Sir William Somerville, from Richard Madden, of the City of Dublin, praying the House to introduce a Clause into the Leases (Ireland) Bill to extend by Six Months the Time at present allowed by Law for Redeeming Freehold or Leasehold Property under Ejectment for Non-Payment of Rent in Ireland.—By Mr. Halsey, from Legally Qualified Practitioners in Medicine and Surgery, of Hitchin and Neighbourhood, against the Medical Practitioners Bill.—By Mr. Spooner, from Charles Andrew Thomson, Oporto Merchant, of Boston Grove, Brentford, in the County of Middlesex, complaining of having been ruined by various Legislative Enactments connected with the Currency, and praying that the Monetary System of the Country may undergo a Searching Inquiry by the House.—From Proprietors and Inhabitants of Lands and Houses in and near Limerick, complaining of the Prevalence of Fever and other Diseases caused by the Obstruction of the Natural Course of the Shannon by certain Banks of Rubbish, and praying for their Removal.—From Manufacturers, Wholesale and Retail Dealers, and other Inhabitants of and in the Vicinity of the Edge-ware Road, Marylebone, in the County of Middlesex, praying the House to adopt Measures for Redeeming and Extinguishing the Tolls upon Waterloo, Southwark, and Vauxhall Bridges.

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—3a. and passed. District Lunatic Asylums (Ireland); Railway Commissioners; Pawnbrokers.
PETITIONS PRESENTED. By the Earl of Auckland, from Pawnbrokers of Saint Luke's, Old Street, and several other places, in favour of the Pawnbrokers' Bill.

SMALL DEBTS BILL.
The EARL of ELLENBOROUGHpresented a petition from the Incorporated Society of Attorneys, Solicitors, and others, not being Barristers, practising in the Courts of Law and Equity, praying that the Lord Chancellor might be empowered to appoint any Attorneys at Law to be Judges of the Courts to be established under that Bill.
The LORD CHANCELLOR, in moving the consideration of the Commons' Amendments to the Small Debts Bill, observed that several Amendments, not affecting the general principle of the Bill, had been introduced in the other House; but there was one clause which had been there introduced to which he wished to call their Lordships' attention. That clause was, he believe the 17th, and restricted the qualification for judges of the courts to be created under the Bill to barristers at law. This was, he considered, a most satisfactory Amendment. The jurisdiction of the Small Debts Courts was extended by this Bill, and though the sums involved in the cases brought under their jurisdiction might be comparatively small, the cases might involve legal questions of great difficulty. Now, though he (the Lord Chancellor) was perfectly ready to admit the qualifications, and learning, and ability, of many attorneys, yet undoubtedly the general course of education of that class of the legal profession did not render them equally well qualified with gentlemen who had been regularly educated for the law as barristers, to act as judges in matters involving doctrines of law. The noble and learned Lord then proposed an Amendment to enable several judges of existing courts for the recovery of small debts, who had practised as conveyancers, to continue their chamber practice (but not to practise in the courts), in the event of their being appointed judges of the new courts.
Commons' Amendments considered and agreed to, with the Amendment.

RAILWAY COMMISSIONERS' BILL.
The EARL of CLARENDONmoved the Third Reading of this Bill, which, he stated, was only the framework of subsequent legislation with respect to railways. The present Bill did little more than transfer to a new department the powers possessed by the Board of Trade. He hoped Parliament would never give any public department the power to put a veto upon projected schemes, or to prevent the investment of capital in railway undertakings.
LORD ELLENBOROUGHhad hoped that the new department created by the Bill would have possessed greater powers than were at present exorcised by the Board of Trade; but such did not appear to be the case. He was sorry the Bill had come before Parliament in the absence of his noble Friend the late President of the Board of Trade (the Earl of Dalhousie). If the matter had remained in the hands of his noble Friend, or in the hands of his noble Friend now the President of that Board (the Earl of Clarendon), he should have had much greater confidence in their decisions than in those of the proposed Board, and so, he believed, would the public. The President of the proposed Board ought to have had a more influential voice in the proceedings of the Board than it was contemplated to give him. Altogether, he regretted that the present Bill had been brought forward, but he did not wish to divide the House against it.
Bill read 3a. and passed.

DISTRESS IN IRELAND.
The EARL of RODENrose and expressed a hope that he might be permitted to address a few words to the House upon a subject which was most deeply interesting to himself, most important to Her Majesty's Ministers, and most closely connected with the very existence of a large portion of the population. He lamented that it was not in his power to be present in the House the other night when the noble Marquess opposite (the Marquess of Lansdowne) brought forward a measure for the relief of distress consequent upon the failure of the potato crop in Ireland. He (the Earl of Roden) did not wish to express an opinion upon the usefulness or efficacy of that measure; for he was most willing to give credit to Her Majesty's Ministers that they were anxious to do all that
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lay in their power to meet the evils at present existing in Ireland; and particularly he was ready to admit that the noble Lord at the head of the Government in Ireland would be most anxious to discharge his duty in that respect. The course which the late Government took last year did them the greatest credit. They had prevented much distress; and, had they not been so ready to listen to whatever complaints were addressed to them, it was impossible to say what the result might have been. But, whilst he entertained these feelings, he deemed it to be his duty, before Parliament separated, having been recently an eye-witness of the circumstances of Ireland, to come over and state to the Parliament, and through Parliament to the country, the melancholy situation in which a large portion of our fellow subjects there were likely to be placed. Within the last few days he had traversed a great part of the province of Ulster, with the view of ascertaining its real condition; and he was not guilty of any exaggeration when he said that through the whole progress of his journey he did not believe there was one field of potatoes which was not decaying, and rapidly decaying, in consequence of the disease which had extended so widely among that species of food. But this was not all. He regretted to state that it was accompanied by another evil; he alluded to a very great deficiency in the oat crop in that part of the country. Their Lordships would remember that the population there were not confined to the potato, but that oats formed a considerable portion of their food. So that, if the failure in the oat crop was at all equal to that of the potato, the calamity would indeed be most awful. There were various means of relief which might be adopted; and one which occurred to him at the present moment was this: On the western coast of Ireland there was an abundance of food which required only the means of transportation to be made available for the whole country; he alluded to the fisheries on that coast. If these were encouraged, and facilities were given for the conveyance of the fish to the interior, he believed that great benefits would accrue to the population. The manner in which the peasantry regarded the failure of the potato crop was most striking. They considered that calamity as a visitation from Heaven; and no one who travelled through the country could fail to observe with what patience and submission they bore it. The noble Lord opposite

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(Lord Monteagle) had described the condition of the people in the south of Ireland; and he (the Earl of Roden) had that morning received a letter-which entirely confirmed his statement. He would merely observe, in conclusion, that he had drawn their Lordships' attention to this subject in the hope that by so doing he should call forth the sympathies of those who had it in their power to assist in relieving the distress which prevailed; and if his voice could reach the ears of the possessors of property in Ireland—if his voice could have any effect in speaking to them from that place on so solemn a question, he would beseech them under any circumstances to come home to their own country and people—to live amongst and encourage them in the midst of the difficulties in which they stood—and to show to them that they were willing to share the evils which he feared the people of Ireland would ere long he forced to bear.
The EARL of COURTOWNalso expressed his fervent hope that everything would be done to give employment to the Irish people.
LORD MONTEAGLEsaid, that the constabulary in Ireland cost the country upwards of 160,000 l. a year, and he thought the money would be much better laid out if it were devoted to the employment of the people.
The DUKE of GRAFTONsaid, he saw no reason why they should not supply the Irish people with food directly. Why not send them biscuit? He was sure that no Irishman would object to use the same biscuit on which their sailors were fed.
The EARL of CLARENDONcould not, he said, permit the discussion to close without tendering his best thanks to the noble Lord who had come from Ireland to make known the situation of that country; and he now appealed to all persons of property in that country to unite together, for the purpose of preventing the evils that were likely to flow from the present dreadful calamity. This was, he said, a most important moment, and he could not permit the opportunity that was then presented to him of adjuring every one, who had an interest in Ireland, and not only them, but of all others, to unite together for the purpose of making one common effort for relieving and mitigating the existing distress; for the statements that had been made by noble Lords regarding it only tended to confirm the melancholy reports which Her Majesty's Government
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had received, and that occupied their most earnest and most anxious attention. His only hope was, that the efforts they were about to make, and the measures they proposed to adopt, might, he would not say, effect a cure, but be at least the means of alleviating the evil.
House adjourned.