Sitting of 14 February 1843

MINUTES.
NEW MEMBER SWORN.—G. A. Hamilton, Esq., for Dublin University.
PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Mr. B. Escott, from the Principal and others of Jesus College, Oxford, by other hon. Members, from Cilcen, Mold, Henllan, Rhuddlan, Dymeirchion, Gwereafield, Pont Bleiddyn, and Hawarden, for the Repeal of so much of the Act 6 and 7 Will. 4th, c. 77, as relates to the Union of the Sees of St. Asaph and Bangor.—By Sir Robert Inglis, from the Dean and Chapter of Norwich, by Lord A. Hervey, from Brighton. and by an hon. Member, from Hawarden, for the Extension of the Church of England.—By Mr. Ord, from Newcastle-on-Tyne, for the Repeal of the Income tax.—By Lord Ashley, from Glasgow, Edinburgh, Sunderland, Durham, York, Darlington, Newcastle, Carlisle, and North and South Shields, against the Repeal of the Mines and Collieries Act.—By Mr. T. Duncombe, from Dockhead, Bermondsey, for Inquiry into the Origin, Progress, and Termination of the Affghanistan and China Wars; and from the Chairman of a Meeting at Liverpool, for Inquiry into the Proceedings of the late Special Com mission.—By Mr. Serjeant Murphy, from Cork, for the Abolition of Ministers' Money.—By Sir A. Brooke, from Fermanagh (Sheriff), for Amendment of the Poor Relief (Ireland) Act.

RIGHT OF SEARCH.
Mr. Hardy 546
begged to put a question to the noble Lord opposite (the late Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs), with respect to the treaties between this country and France for the suppression of slavery. The first convention between this country and France was made in 1831, and the supplementary convention in 1833. The question which he wished to ask the noble Lord was, whether the proposition for that supplementary convention proceeded from the Government of this country, or from the government of France?
Viscount Palmerstonsaid, that as soon as the late Government came into office in 1830, proposals were made to the French government for a treaty granting to each country reciprocal powers of search, with a view to the prevention of the slave-trade. The convention of 1831 was concluded in consequence, and in that convention was recorded the general principle agreed upon by the two Governments. There were other details, however, including, among other matters, instructions to cruisers, which had not been regulated by the first convention. The convention of 1833 became necessary in consequence of these omissions, but that convention was essentially a part and continuation of the former, the general principles of which it sought to carry out more completely. He felt bound to say, in justice to the French government and to the French ambassador then accredited to the British court, that it was impossible any government or any ambassador could have entered with more readiness or more philanthropy into the negotiation. It was the honourable desire of both governments to concur in the most effectual means to obtain the suppression of the slave-trade.
Mr. Hardywished to know what was the earliest date at which any complaints were made by the French government relative to the detention of French vessels by our cruisers?
Viscount Palmerstonsaid that no complaint had ever arisen till a very short period before he and his late Colleagues quitted office. The complaint that then arose originated in no detention, in consequence of the conventions in question, but in consequence of the detention of a vessel in our own waters, on the coast of the Gambia, the detention arising out of a violation of our own municipal laws. He might, therefore, say that no complaint whatever, founded on the execu-

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tion of the conventions of 1831 and 1833, had been made while he remained in office. The complaints that did arise were founded on the applications of the municipal law of England to French vessels suspected of being engaged in the slave-trade in the waters of Great Britain.

CHINA—VOTE OF THANKS.
Lord Stanley: Under ordinary circumstances, Sir, I should have been unwilling, even on a notice-day, to interpose, on the part of the Government, with any motion that might have interfered with the progress of an adjourned debate; but understanding from the noble Lord who originated the debate, and from hon. Gentlemen on the other side of the House, that there will be no objection to bringing forward, as a substantive motion, the vote of thanks to the officers and troops of the army engaged in the operations in China, and not anticipating that the motion will be likely to lead to any lengthened discussion, I will, with permission of the House, proceed to propose it. But first I must beg to move that so much of her Majesty's gracious Speech as referred to China be read.
The following extract from her Majesty's Speech was then read by the clerk at the Table.
"The increased exertions which, by the liberality of Parliament, her Majesty was enabled to make for the termination of hostilities with China, have been eminently successful. The skill, valour, and discipline of the naval and military forces employed upon this service have been most conspicious, and have led to the conclusion of peace upon the terms proposed by her Majesty. Her Majesty rejoices in the prospect that, by the free access which will be opened to the principal marts of that populous and extensive empire, encouragement will be given to the commercial enterprise of her people."
I trust the motion I am about to submit to the consideration of the House is one that will receive the cordial and unanimous support of the House. The question is one which involves no consideration of party or political interest. I do not propose to enter upon any discussion of those matters which might lead to controversy between different parties in the House as to the policy which led to the acts that ultimately rendered unavoidable the war in which we were engaged. I am not about to claim for this or that Government the particular merit of deciding,
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conducting, or supporting our naval and military operations in China. I am about to propose a vote of thanks to three gallant officers in particular, who had the chief conduct of those operations—all of whom were selected during the administration of noble Lords and hon. Gentlemen who sit on the opposite side. No party consideration, therefore, can interfere with the subject; and while I feel it almost presumptuous to express the opinion, that a more fitting and judicious selection could not have been made, than that which was made of the officers who conducted our naval and military operations in that country, I trust the time will never arrive when, in discussing such questions as that now brought before the House, either the British House of Commons or the British public will for a moment pause to consider by whom, and by what political party, instruments had been selected to carry out their plans. I mean, Sir, very briefly to recapitulate the events of the late war—those operations upon the successful accomplishment of which I rest the claims of those gallant men to the thanks of their country. I shall date the commencement of the war with China from the early part of the year 1841, and in this I believe the noble Lord, the late Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, will agree with me. At that period it was that the temporary accommodation agreed to by Captain Elliot with the Chinese authorities was broken through by the latter, and refused to be ratified by the British Government. The operations in 1840 were almost all on a very small and comparatively insignificant scale. But in February, 1841, Captain Elliot concluded an agreement which was not ratified by her Majesty's Government. Before the refusal, however, of the British Government to ratify that agreement had reached China, the Chinese authorities had themselves violated it; and from February, 1841, therefore, I will commence the history of the war, which I will endeavour to make as concise as I can. On February 20, 1841, in consequence of the hostile determination manifested by the Chinese authorities and the Chinese people, it was determined, on the part of the naval authorities, that a certain operation should be undertaken, in which the naval forces were to bear a principal share. It was judged necessary to force the strong position of the Bogue forts, and, in fact, to

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bring the British fleet into the inner waters of China, close under the walls of the city of Canton. I should be sorry to weary the house with a description of the obstacles to be surmounted, and of the skill with which those obstacles were overcome; but I must call the attention of the House to the description given by Sir Gordon Bremer of two of the principal forts, situated nearly opposite each other, and between which it was necessary for the fleet to press forward. The noble Lord then read the following extract from the despatch of Sir Gordon Bremer:—
"Partly surrounding the old fort of Anunghoy, and in advance of it to high water mark, was a new and well built battery of granite, forming a segment of about two-thirds of a circle: on it were mounted forty-two guns, some of them of immense weight and large calibre; several strong entrenchments extended to the southward of this battery, and the ridges of the hill were crowed with guns up to a camp calculated for about 1,200 men, and at the north side was a straight work of modern erection, mounting sixty heavy guns; about 150 yards of rocky beach intervenes between the end of this battery and the northern circular battery, on which forty guns were mounted; all the works were protected in the rear by a high wall, extending up to the hill, on which were steps or platforms, for firing musketry, and in the interior were magazines, bar racks, &c. On the east end of the island of North Wangtong is a battery with a double tier of guns, defending the passage on that side, and also partly flanking a number of rafts, constructed of large masses of timber, moored across the river about twelve feet apart, with two anchors each, connected by and supporting four parts of a chain cable, the ends of which were secured under masonry works—one on the South Wangtong, the other on Anunghoy. On the western end of North Wangtong is a strong battery of forty guns, flanked by a field work of seventeen; indeed, the whole island is one continued battery. On the extreme western side of the channel was a battery of twenty-two heavy guns and a field-work of seventeen, protecting an entrenched camp containing l,50o or 2,000 men."
It will hardly be credited that obstacles, apparently so insurmountable, should have been overcome by bodies of men comparatively so insignificant. The forts described were by the fire of the vessels of her Majesty, secured, silenced, and captured in the space of a single hour. A succession of operations brought her Majesty's fleet through channels unknown to the Chinese themselves; blocked up in some places by sunken junks, with, in
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some places, scarcely water enough for the vessels to sail in, and in some instances so narrow that the paddle-wheels of the Nemesis could scarcely go through them. All those difficulties were surmounted by the singular skill of the British navy, and vessels were taken through passages, in many cases unknown to the Chinese themselves, and without the aid of a single Chinese pilot, the English fleet was brought in a few days to the walls of the great and wealthy city of Canton, and that great and wealthy city was placed at the disposal of her Majesty's forces. In consequence of these operations, 500 guns, many of them of a large calibre, were captured. When Canton had thus been placed in the possession of her Majesty's forces, the Plenipotentiary, in the exercise of his discretion, interfered, and the fleet, without the commission of any act of violence, except the destruction of the guns captured, returned to the former anchorage, and remained there undisturbed for two months. Sir Gordon Bremer, in the meantime, proceeded to Calcutta, to give the Governor-General an outline of the state of affairs, and to ask him for a further reinforcement of troops. On this account it was that he was not present when the subsequent operations took place on the 18th of May, when the heights of Canton were stormed, and that city was again placed at the disposal of her Majesty's forces. This operation, which was not, as the former had been, chiefly a naval one, was brought on by the acts of the Chinese government, and by the knowledge of the fact that a very large body of men, amounting, according to some accounts, to 45,000 men, was being collected, composed of the best troops of the empire, and actually occupied Canton. In consequence of this proceeding, and of the attempts which were made to set fire to the ships, it was thought necessary, on the 18th of May, without waiting for further reinforcements, again to advance on the city of Canton, and take possession of all the forts and heights which crowned that city on the north and north-west. The former operation was principally naval, but in the conduct of this enterprise, which was in the greatest part a military operation, the troops were placed under the superintendence and leading of Sir Hugh Gough, but when I say that this was principally a military operation I should do great in-

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justice to our naval service if I were to leave the House to infer that the operation, though of a military character, was conducted exclusively by military means. On the contrary, as well on this as on every subsequent occasion, there appears to me to have been, among all the troops engaged, of every description, an alacrity to forget all the peculiarities of their respective services, and cordially, sedulously, and willingly to devote themselves to the service of the Crown and of their country, in whatever capacity and under whatever circumstances their services might be called for. Previous to the occupation of the heights, and the storming of the four forts on the north-west of Canton, the troops had been disembarked with the greatest gallantry and skill, at the precise point at which it was intended the debarkation should take place, and the column of attack was divided into four brigades. One of these consisted exclusively of two battalions of officers and men of the navy, and it went therefore under the title of the naval brigade. I should add, that Sir Humphrey Senhouse, the distinguished officer who commanded the naval force on the occasion, and whose loss within a very few days afterwards was the only circumstance which could cause a feeling of regret to intervene in reviewing the success of that memorable day, abandoned the leading of the naval brigade to Captain Bourchier, consenting to forego the pleasure of bringing his men into action, and throughout the whole day attended on Sir Hugh Gough with his counsel and assistance. I am but little competent, Sir, even if it were right to weary the House by such details, to enter into the military narrative of this or any other operation. There are many Members of this House far more competent to speak to their merits; but Gentlemen will find any trouble they may take well repaid by perusing if they have not already done so, the various despatches which were from time to time made public in the Gazettes of this country, and which communicated the most interesting information with respect to the details of each of the operations. The result, however, of the operations to which I have alluded was, that with a force amounting to somewhere about 3000 men, and I believe not, including seamen, exceeding 3000, the line of heights was occupied flanking the river for a consider-
552
able distance. The negotiations respecting a truce (for attempts were made to bring matters to a peaceful result, even at the last moment) having been broken off, a simultaneous order to advance was given to the different brigades who were to take possession of the four forts. Perhaps I may be permitted to read to the House the statement made by Sir Hugh Gough as to the manner in which the order was carried into effect:—
"At about half-past nine o'clock, said the general, the advance was sounded, and it has seldom fallen to my lot to witness a more soldier like and steady advance, or a more animated attack. Every individual, native as well as European, steady and gallantly did his duty. The 18th and 49th were emulous which should first reach their appointed goals; but under the impulse of this feeling they did not lose sight of that discipline which could alone ensure success. The advance of the 37th Madras Native Infantry and Bengal Volunteers in support was equally praiseworthy. The result of this combined movement was, that the two forts were captured with comparatively small loss, and that, in little more than half an hour after the order to advance was given, the British troops looked down on Canton within 100 paces of its walls. The well-directed fire of the artillery in the centre was highly creditable, and did great execution. In co-operation with these attacks I witnessed with no ordinary gratification the noble rush of the brigade of seamen under their gallant leader, Captain Bourchier, exposed to a heavy fire from the whole of the north-western rampart. This right attack was equally successful, and here, also, the British standard proudly waved on the two western forts, while the British tars looked down upon the north-western face of the city and its suburbs"
I think it would be hardly right to select for especial praise, on an occasion like the present, when we are to consider the results of many successive enterprises, individual names, whether those of particular regiments or of particular officers, other than those who were formally and officially brought under our notice. But I may be permitted to refer to a single incident I have heard connected with the fortunes of the 37th regiment of Madras Native Infantry, which, as well as many others that are related of that gallant regiment during the course of those operations, proved, that for skill, courage, and unflinching discipline, the Sepoys of that brave corps were worthy to take the place they afterwards occupied throughout the operations of the campaign, and fight side by side with the Royal Irish, the 49th and

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the 57th regiments, which were engaged from first to last in almost all the brilliant actions of the war. The first effect of the capture of these forts was the surrender to the small body of men I have named of a number of Chinese troops, calculated at the very least at 35,000, and by some as high as 45,000, who were permitted to march out of the city they had been sent to defend, and which they surrendered, a large and not disproportionate ransom being fixed for the city of Canton. Subsequently, trifling skirmishes took place, and in the course of one of them, two days after the surrender of this city, a company of the 37th Madras Native Infantry was accidentally separated, after a tremendous thunder storm, from a body of the 26th Regiment of the Queen's forces, with which it had been co-operating. It was towards dusk that this little company was missed, under circumstances which caused great anxiety. The whole day had been a succession of violent thunder storms and extremely heavy rain; and a detachment of the marines was sent out for the purpose of ascertaining the fate of this gallant little company. And in what position does the House think they were found? The singly company was found in the presence of some thousands of Chinese, armed uncouthly, no doubt, but still armed with match locks and long spears. In consequence of continued wet, they were incapacitated from using a single musket of those they possessed, but the men of this gallant company were found formed into a solid square with fixed bayonets, keeping the whole of their assailants at bay, and there they maintained their position until after dusk, at which time they were relieved by a body of marines, who were fortunately armed with percussion muskets. This, Sir, is in itself but a trifling incident, but I mention it for the purpose of doing honour to the Indian army, and also of showing that in a climate and country, and opposed to a people of which previously they had been altogether ignorant, they—separated from all assistance—displayed a coolness, courage, and discipline worthy of the best regiments of the British army; and I am quite sure that there is no officer or man of that army who will consider it invidious, if on that account I have diverged somewhat from the ordinary course, and selected this remarkable incident as one worthy of particular mention. The troops having abandoned possession
554
of Canton, retired down the river, and it was not till August that reinforcements having been sent from the Governor-general of India, an expedition was enabled to proceed to the north under the command of Sir William Parker, who had then recently arrived, and Sir Hugh Gough. On the 21st of August it left Canton, and proceeded to the port of Amoy. The force which set out on this service consisted of eleven ships of various sizes, carrying in all 330 guns, four steamers, and a small laud force of 2,233 men, it being necessary to leave at Hong Kong, for the occupation of the island, a garrison of 1,380 men, which, with the remainder of the troops on the expedition, constituted the whole disposable force in China. With this force, naval and military, the expedition entered the harbour of Amoy, a spacious and ample haven, protected on one hand by works above the town of Amoy itself, and on the other hand by the island of Koo-lang-soo, which forms the mouth of the harbour, and was also strongly fortified. I am afraid I weary the House by reading the detailed account of these operations, but the description of these works is as follows:—
"The enemy's defences were evidently of great strength, and the country by nature difficult of access. Every island, every projecting headland, from whence guns could bear upon the harbour, were occupied and strongly armed, commencing from the point of entrance into the inner harbour on the Amoy side; the principal sea line of defence, after a succession of batteries and bastions in front of the outer town, extended for upwards of a mile in one continuous battery of stone, with embrasures roofed by large slabs, thickly covered with clods of earth, so as to form a sort of casement, and afford perfect shelter to the men in working their guns. Between some of the embrasures were embankments to protect the masonry; and ninety-six guns were mounted in this work, which terminated in a castellated wall, connecting it with a range of precipitous rocky heights, that run nearly parallel to the beach, at a distance varying from a quarter to half a mile. Several smaller works were apparent at intervals amid the rocks. The entrance into the inner harbour is by a channel about 600 yards across, between Amoy and the island of Koo-lang-soo, upon which several strong batteries were visible, and some of these flanked the sea line and stone battery. It appeared expedient, therefore, to make a simultaneous attack on these two prominent lines of defenec"
Sir, no time was lost in making preparations for the attack of these formidable

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defences, which was commenced without delay, a previous close examination having been made under the eyes of Sir H. Gough and Sir W. Parker themselves. And here I may be permitted to say, by way of parenthesis, that there are no features in the character of these gallant officers more worthy of commendation than this—that they seem on every occasion to have determined to judge for themselves, to see with their own eyes, to trust to no reports, whenever there existed the means of satisfying themselves, well questioning before they undertook any enterprise, the probable means of resistence, and the most effectual mode of overcoming them. Thus, in a harbour but very partially known, and consequently where the difficulty of placing ships in a proper position was comparatively great, the ships were all placed in their positions with such precision that not one of them was out of that line in which it had been arranged beforehand, that their fire should be directed to Amoy on the one hand, or Koo-lang-soo on the other. In placing their vessels, I ought not to forget to mention that it appears from the official report that the Blonde, Druid, and Modeste reached their position against the island of Koo-lang-soo a few minutes earlier than the rest; but the others found so much difficulty from the shallowness of the water in taking their places, that they very spiritedly carried them into almost their own draft of water. The ships having been placed, the fire commenced at once on the fortifications of Amoy, and the defences of Koo-lang-soo; and under cover of that fire, the small body of marines, headed by Sir H. Gough in person, carried the fortifications of Amoy, while at the same time, and almost at the same hour, the works of Koo-lang-soo wese stormed and taken by a body of marines, landed under the fire of the ships attacking the batteries. It was necessary to leave a garrison here, and 550 men of the small land force of the expedition were necessarily left behind. From Amoy the troops proceded to re-occupy the island of Chusan, which had been previously occupied by the troops during the present year, but which, on the breaking off of the negotiations with Keshen, in 1841, had been abandoned by the commissioner. On approaching this island no time was lost in making preparations to overcome the obstacles which Chinese art and ingenuity, following the lessons taught
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by our own engineers, had created, in the construction of fortifications, by which the island was placed in a complete state of defence. Our officers, it was said, were completely struck with the great skill and proficiency in fortification acquired by the Chinese engineers and artificers since the period at which we abandoned the island. The batteries, which presented a most formidable line of defence towards the seaboard, were taken by a gallant operation, in which the assailants were the military force and a body of marines, by which the heights adjoining the shore were carried in the face of a very superior body of men, many of whom stood very gallantly to their arms; and the batteries towards the sea-board being thus turned, an attack was made on the city in the rear, where preparations had not been made to the same extent as in other quarters, and the city fell an easy prey to the gallantry and ability of British troops. From Chusan, the next operations of the combined forces were directed against the very strongly fortified heights of Chin-hae, protecting the large commercial town of Ningpo, which contains a population of above 300,000 inhabitants. The whole forces, naval and military, were engaged in this expedition; and for a description of the difficulties they had to encounter in this enterprise I beg to refer hon. Gentlemen to the official accounts, without troubling the House with a detailed relation of the series of operations. Defences manned by a garrison of from 8,000 to 10,000 men, surrendered to a body not exceeding 2,000, including in that number a body of seamen, who, with their usual spirit of daring and anxiety to be present, operated on one side, while the operations were carried on upon the other side by the military under Sir Hugh Gough. The fruit of this achievement was the almost unresisting surrender of the great and precious city of Ningpo to the British forces. Immense quantities of military stores were found at Chin-hae, of which the General thus speaks:—
"We found Chin-hae to be, I may almost say, one great arsenal, with a cannon foundry and gun-carriage manufactory in active operation on improved works, together with warlike stores of various descriptions. In a battery upon the river one of the carronades of the Kite was found with an excellent imitation alongside it, and many of the new Chinese brass guns are very efficient."
Sir Hugh Goughthen proceeds to de-

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scribe their passage to the city of Ningpo with the small force which circumstances alone permitted him to take with him:—
"It having been determined to push on with the least possible delay to Ningpo, Sir W. Parker proceeded on the 12th, in the Nemesis steamer, to ascertain the practicability of the river, and actually reached, without the slightest attempt at opposition, the bridge of boats which connects this city with the opposite suburb. Upon his returning in the evening, arrangements were made for the attack on the following morning, lest the enemy by his apparent submission, should intend to entrap us. Having left the 55th, with the exception of the light company, 100 of the Royal Marines, with detachments of artillery and sappers, in Chinhae, the rest of the force, about 750 bayonets, exclusive of the artillery and sappers, in steamers, by eight, a.m., on the 13th, and we reached Ningpo at three o'clock. No enemy appeared, and it was evident no ambuscade was intended, as the inhabitants densely thronged the bridge of boats, and collected in clusters along both banks. The troops landed on and near the bridge, and advanced to the city gate which we found barricaded, but the walls were soon escaladed, and the Chinese assisted in removing the obstructions and opening the gate. This little force of soldiers, seamen and marines drew up on the ramparts, the band of the 18th playing 'God save the Queen.' The second city of the province of Che-keang, the walls of which were five miles in circumference, with a population of 300,000 souls, has thus fallen into our hands. The people all appear desirous to throw themselves under British protection, saying publicly that their mandarins had deserted them, and their own soldiers are unable to protect them. I have assembled some of the most respectable and influential of the mercantile class that have remained, and have assured them of my anxiety to afford them all protection consistent with our instructions to press the Chinese government. Proclamations have been issued, calling upon the people to open their shops, which I have engaged shall not be molested. This they have done to some extent, and confidence appears to be increasing. It affords me very great satisfaction to be enabled to report to your Lordship that the orderly conduct of the troops calls for my warmest commendations, evincing the constant attention of the officers, and the true British feeling which exists in this little force."
This small force, Sir, remained at Chinhae and in the neighbourhood of Ningpo, the season being now far advanced, and it being impossible without very great reinforcements to undertake important operations. The troops continued in quarters, furnished with provisions by the country people, who made no difficulty whatever in supplying them, until the 10th of March
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when they were disturbed by a night attack, made shortly before daybreak by a very large body of Tartar troops, which was at once repulsed, with a success that reflects great credit on the promptitude and courage with which an attack so totally unexpected, and of a kind that often proves embarrassing and trying to the best troops, was met and defeated. With the details of this, however, although well worthy of attention, I will not trouble the House. Shortly after this it became necessary to proceed a considerable distance into the country, and 1,500 seamen and marines, under the command of Sir W. Parker, went on this service. These forces, Sir, attacked a large and formidable body of Tartar troops, whom the Chinese had always hitherto considered invincible, routed them without difficulty, and returned in triumph to Chin-hae, without having committed a single outrage or act of violence for the purpose of desolation, and without having been guilty of an act of wrong to a single individual. Sir, the House is, perhaps, weary by this time of listening to details of uninterrupted success, gained over enemies who certainly, from first to last, with few exceptions, offered no very serious obstacles to our arms. But, Sir, they will forgive me if I call their attention to one point, which will, I trust ever continue to characterise British troops, both in the naval and military service of the country, and which is beyond doubt entitled to the highest approbation and favour of this House, and that is the good order and discipline which throughout the war was conspicuous on every occasion. The House will, I hope, not think I am taking up their time unnecessarily if I refer to one or two instances of this quality, which, it appears to me, must have had considerable effect on the ultimate success of the war. At Amoy Sir Hugh Gough describes the conduct of the troops as having been most excellent, and marked throughout with the utmost forbearance to both persons and property. The same highly creditable demeanour was observed by them at our re-occupation of Chusan, and on the capture of Ningpo it is stated to have been, if possible, more signal. Not only Sir Hugh Gough, but other authorities, bear the strongest testimony to this gratifying fact. With reference to what took place at Ningpo, it is said in one passage of the despatches,—
"Her Majesty's sloops and the steam ves-

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sels are anchored under the walls of the city, and his Excellency the General is actively exerting himself in securing all the Government property on shore, and endeavouring to establish order, and prevent the pillage of this populous and opulent place, where, I am happy to say, such of the respectable inhabitants as have remained, evince much less apprehension at the presence of the English than was exhibited either at Amoy or Chusan."
Sir, not from British officers alone have we strongly expressed testimonies to the good conduct, as well as to the valour of the British troops. Repeatedly letters were intercepted, written by Chinese military authorities, in all of which they state, in various and strong terms:—
"We have in vain endeavoured," said one, "to impress on the population that those barbarians are the thieves and robbers they have been described They feed the poor—they protect the helpless—they release their prisoners—they heal the wounded; in every case they put themselves forward as the protectors, not the enemies, of the people; and we, the military authorities, tell you, the Government, that against such conduct as this, and against troops so conducting themselves, we find the people lukewarm in our cause; and we cannot make head against an enemy who fights with such weapons."
It was in the month of May next that a portion of the reinforcement which had been sent from this country and India having arrived, or being on the point of arrival, the first operation was undertaken in the capture of the town of Chapoo. I will not enter into the details of the occurrences, except to state that for the first time on this occasion British troops found in the city of Chapoo, living in a separate portion occupied by them alone, a party of Tartar troops, who exercised a species of domination over the subject Chinese, holding themselves at once as the guardians and masters of a submissive population. It was by this body of men, the Tartar troops, in these quarters, that the greatest resistence was made, and the bloodshed which ensued is to be ascribed to their unfortunate ignorance of the British character. They were filled with the belief that no quarter would be given by British soldiers. It was here that her Majesty's service sustained a great loss in the death of the gallant Colonel Thomas, who fell at the head of his regiment. But the principal operation of the campaign, and that which reflected greatest credit on the officers and men engaged in
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it—not alone in a military point of view, but for the science and skill with which it was conducted—was that of carrying a large British fleet and a considerable force 170 miles up the inland waters of the great and hitherto unknown river, in the centre of an empire never hitherto traversed by Europeans, and which had kept itself as free as possible, and more free, than, in this state of the world, we could almost have believed possible, from all intercourse with foreigners. The mouth of the Yang-tse-Keang is beset with numerous shoals, utterly unknown to the officers of the squadron, and enveloped with fogs, which rendered the surveying operations matters of peculiar difficulty—sunken rocks blocking up the immediate channel, on one of which a steamer, in the course of the operations, struck. This, I believe, was the only disaster with which the operations were attended; but, by energy and perseverance, without any assistance except that to be found in British science and British skill, the whole of the fleet, which ultimately amounted to no less than seventy-three sail, was safely carried through the shoals, and over the bar of this mighty river: 170 miles did they sail up its course, the first thirty unexpectedly affording a depth of water about three feet more than was required by the line of-battle ships. Sir, I shall not dwell on the operations connected with the capture of Wosung, where fresh troops of the enemy were defeated by our forces. The credit of this operation is due exclusively to the naval part of the expedition. Neither shall I go at length into the previous reduction of Shang-hae; but I will beg to call the attention of the House to the position in which this country stood on the 22d of July, after the city of Chin-keang-foo had finally fallen before the arms of the naval and military forces of her Majesty. That city was the great stronghold of the Chinese troops. There were, undoubtedly, garrisoned the best of the Tartar troops, covered by defences which they themselves considered impregnable. These Tartars were regarded by the Chinese as invincible; the natural defences of the place were very great, the artificial difficulties interposed were greater still. Such was the burning heat of the climate, that even in the thick of the en counter, after a portion of the city had yielded to a gallant attack of our troops, after the gates were in our possession, and

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when the citadel was still maintained and defended by the Tartars, the heat being so intense that no less than sixteen men, and among them, I believe, a most gallant officer, Major Uniacke, of the Marines, fell victims to the overwhelming power of the sun. Under these circumstances I say, that contending armies suspended their strife for a while, and threw aside the arms they wielded against each other, from noon-day till seven at night before their returning strength enabled them to renew the contest. Such was the blow by which the great city of Chin-keang-foo, to the astonishment of the Chinese troops and people, fell into our power after one day's assault by the combined strength of the naval and military forces; for on this occasion, as on almost every other during the war, the navy had its full share of honour in the successes we gained. And here I may say that whatever might be the case on other occasions, our troops were met in this action with no slight or weak resistance. The Tartar troops fought with the fury and courage of desperation. The combat on the ramparts was maintained hand to hand, and there was more than one instance of a Tartar soldier grappling with the enemy opposed to him, and precipitating himself and his antagonist over the walls of the city, in order that his foe and himself might undergo a common death. Sir, I am happy to say that little of marauding or disorderly conduct could be laid to the charge of the British soldier on this occasion; but there were circumstances which stamped the capture of Chin-keang-foo with peculiar horror. Ignorance of our mode of warfare, and of the humanity which accompanies—and, I hope, always will accompany—the display of British valour and energy; a large body of the Tartars—whether from desperation or from a mistaken feeling of loyalty and allegiance to their Sovereign I can hardly take upon myself to say—after the city was taken, consigned themselves, their wives, their children, and their households, to indiscriminate slaughter. I shall not pain the House by detailing the circumstances of the scene which met the eyes and shocked the feelings of our officers in the course of their excursions through the streets of this capital. Sir, I turn much more gladly to contemplate the triumphant position in which England and the British forces then stood. A force consisting of 4,500 effective men, under Sir H. Gough;
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a fleet of seventy-three sail, including one line-of-battle ship, sixteen vessels of war of different descriptions, and ten war steamers, had forced their unassisted way, conquering as they went, up this mighty and unknown stream, and penetrated the Yang-tse-Keang, for a distance of 170 miles, to the centre of the Chinese empire. They had achieved the conquest of towns and fortresses mounting in all above 2,000 guns, which they had captured or destroyed. They had subdued cities containing a population varying from one million down to 60,000 or 70,000. They had continually routed armies four or five, and sometimes ten times their own number; and they had done all this at a great distance from their own resources, and in the heart of an enemy's dominions, half across the globe from their own native country. They now occupied the proud position of having surmounted all the innumerable toils and difficulties of their warfare, and holding with one hand, in their formidable grasp, the main artery of Chinese commerce—the intersection of China's mightiest river, with that great canal which traverses the country, and supplies the upper provinces with the products of the south. Thus they had China and its commerce at their feet; they had made their dispositions, which circumstances fortunately rendered unnecessary, for the capture of Nankin, which they were ready to storm when Sir H. Gough should give the word. They would have captured the second city of the empire with a population of 1,500,000 inhabitants. In the course of all these proceedings they had maintained, not only constant and uninterrupted gallantry, but a soldier-like temperance and discipline which reflected on them a glory of the purest character—on them, and on their leaders, Sir H. Gough and Sir W. Parker; and now at length they enabled her Majesty's plenipotentiary, at the head of a powerful fleet and of a not inconsiderable and highly disciplined army, to dictate peace on the terms prescribed by his sovereign, and they have obtained this peace on terms of entire equality, at the hands of the emperor of China. There may have been operations, Sir, in which more blood was shed, or in which a more obstinate resistance was made, but I will venture to say that, for a combination of all the qualities which the circumstances of various services required from all the officers and

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men of the force, there never was an army which better deserved, as I am confident they will receive, the expression of the thanks and gratitude of this House and of Parliament. The vote of thanks I now propose is in one respect, perhaps, couched in rather an unusual form. It has been usual separately to thank the officers and men of the naval and military service. It is not from any neglect, or omission to consult former precedents, that her Majesty's Government have adopted the form in which they now offer a vote for the thanks of this House to their consideration. It is because, from the commencement to the end of this war, on every occasion, navy and army concurred in the most thorough co-operation; because there was hardly an action in which their combined efforts were not called for, nor one occasion on which the thanks of Parliament could be voted to the one service, where they would not be justly due to the other. And in speaking of the army and the navy, I desire to include in the expression of the public gratitude, and the proposal of the thanks of Parliament, not only the officers and men of the East India Company's military force, but also the officers and men of the infant navy of the East India Company—that navy which, on every occasion when its exertions have been called into action, has rendered signal service to the public interests of the empire, and has shown all readiness to co operate with the navy of the Crown. Sir, I have perhaps, detained the House longer than I ought to have done. I know how wearisome to the House details of the kind I have gone through necessarily must be, and that, as an unprofessional man, I may have omitted the names of many individuals whom I ought to have mentioned; but I trust, that to the service the circumstance of my being an unprofessional man will be a sufficient apology for that omission. I wish to state, with reference to the individual names included in this vote of thanks, that a regular precedent has been established, from which it would in my judgment be most unwise and inconvenient to depart. That precedent, I believe, has been fixed to be, that, in the naval service no man below the rank of rear-admiral, and, in the military service, below that of major-general, should have his name included in the vote of thanks. [Sir Charles Napier: Yes, a commodore has.] I mention this,
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because I think it wise on this occasion to adhere to precedent and rule; and I think it would do great evil if, in returning the thanks of Parliament to those engaged in military operations, it were left to Parliament to discuss the merits of this or that officer, or of this or that man, or whether this or that individual had a better claim than another to be included in the vote of thanks, while it is very possible that the merits of the one might be quite equal to those of the other. Were it not for this consideration, I should feel it to be an act of injustice to omit the names of those captains in her Majesty's navy who commanded the vessels engaged in this expedition, and who performed their services with the most admirable zeal and ability. It is in consequence of our wish to adhere to the regular rule in these cases that we have inserted no other names than those which appear in the proposed resolution. But had it not been for the precedent, it would have given the Government the greatest pleasure to insert the name of Admiral Sir Thomas Cochrane, inasmuch as, although he never was engaged in any of the actual operations, he was, by the direction of Sir William Parker, sent to a station of great importance, namely, Hong Kong, where he performed the responsible duties entrusted to him with the greatest skill. It is with great reluctance, therefore, that I have omitted the name of that distinguished officer. Sir, I will not pretend to anticipate what may be the consequences of the peaceful and happy termination of this arduous war. I say arduous, not in consequence of the extraordinary difficulties which our forces had to encounter in the shape of military opposition, but in consequence of the difficulty, in consequence of the peculiar and unknown character of the Chinese, of estimating the nature of the obstacles that would be thrown in their way. I say I do not pretend to anticipate the results of the successful termination of this war. I trust, however, that more intimate and extended relations with the Chinese people may lead to results most advantageous to the trade and commerce of this country, although, perhaps, such results may not come into operation immediately. I heard with great satisfaction the wise and temperate language in which my hon. Friend—as I trust he will allow me to call him, and who I do not see in his place at this moment, I mean the hon. Member for

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Manchester—adverted to this part of the subject, and warned the manufacturers of this country that the development of this new market, valuable as it was likely to prove, must be a work of time, and that great results must not be looked for immediately as following upon recent events; but that the new market must be regarded as a slow, but sure opening for British commerce, rather than a great present gain, which was to be seized upon with avidity by the manufacturing body, and thus lead, as had been the case in some other instances, to disappointment and loss. Sir, it is not my part, nor the part of this House at the present time, to anticipate the results of the great events which have just transpired. It is our part now to congratulate ourselves and the country at large upon the peaceful and satisfactory termination of this extensive and arduous war—to congratulate ourselves, also, upon the possible opening for British commerce, in a more extended communication with a vast empire which has hitherto stood excluded from the civilised world, but which we hope may hereafter become incorporated with that civilized world. Our simple task is, to pay our tribute of gratitude—a tribute which, I hope, will pass this House without a single dissentient voice—to those gallant men who have so well sustained the honour of the British arms, and to whose noble and intrepid exertions our signal success is to be attributed.
Viscount Palmerston: Concerned as I have been, said the noble Lord, with those transactions which form the subject of the motion of the noble Lord, the House will not be surprised that I should be anxious to second the motion which the noble Lord has just submitted to the House, and to express my most cordial and hearty concurrence in the vote which he has proposed. In doing so, Sir, I shall follow the example so properly set by the noble Lord, by abstaining from anything that could by possibility disturb the unanimity which I trust will prevail in the House, on the present moment, by infusing into the discussion the slightest alloy of party feeling. Of course, Sir, the House must feel that we upon this side of the House, who are peculiarly responsible for the operations, the triumphant termination of which this House is now commemorating, must feel no ordinary gratification at the success which has been achieved;
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but I feel it would be unworthy on my part to say anything that could excite the slightest shade of difference in the mind of any man here present, or diminish that full and entire feeling of satisfaction with which I trust every one will concur in the motion of the noble Lord. The noble Lord has gone so ably and so fully into the details of those operations, for which it is now proposed that we tender our thanks to those engaged in carrying them out, that I can add nothing to that which has been already said. But when the noble Lord expressed his apprehension that the details he was entering into would be wearisome to the House, I must be permitted to say, that he did not do justice either to the clearness and ability with which he made his statement, or to those feelings of patriotism with which the Members of this House must ever listen to the accounts of those actions by which glory has been shed upon the arms of their country. The noble Lord very justly said, he might take the beginning of the year 1841 as the commencement of the war in China. Up to that period we were in process of negotiation rather than in a state of hostility with China. The negotiations, it is true, were accompanied and supported by a military and naval demonstration, and by the occupation of an island, but still the character of the transactions was that of negotiation rather than of hostility. When the treaty made by her Majesty's plenipotentiary in China was violated and rejected by the Chinese authorities, long before it could be known to them that the treaty was not accepted by the Government of Great Britain, the transactions began to assume the character of war rather than of negotiation. Sir, it is true, as the noble Lord has stated, that there have been other occasions upon which the army and navy of England have had to act upon a larger scale, and to contend with a more formidable enemy; but when we consider the great distance of the scene of operations, the unknown character of the people, and the unexplored nature of the coasts and seas—when we consider the local difficulties to be encountered, I must say, that there has never been an occasion upon which the British army and navy have had more opportunities for displaying that skill and courage, those fertile resources in difficulties, that endurance under privations, and that enterprise in action, which have always more or less distinguished them in

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every field on which they have been called upon to serve their country. But when I say, that upon other occasions the forces of Great Britain have had to cope with an enemy more formidable, let it not be assumed that the Chinese did not display great personal courage upon many occasions. They were wanting in that skill in the art of war without which courage can do little towards ensuring success; but there were many instances of desperate bravery on the part of individuals and of bodies of troops that were worthy of the most military nations on the earth. It must not be assumed, therefore, that the Chinese were deficient in that physical courage which renders an enemy respectable. I say, then, Sir, that these operations reflect the highest degree of credit both upon the skill of the officers by whom they were conducted, and upon the valour and constancy of the troops who acted under their orders. With regard to the naval commander, Sir W. Parker, the right hon. Baronet now at the head of the Home Department and myself, had ample opportunities, when at the head of the Admiralty, of witnessing the prudence and judgment of that officer when military qualities were not so much called into play—I mean when he commanded in the Tagus; and that officer has now shewn as much ability and enterprize in a more active service. With respect to the other commanders, I have not the honour of the same previous acquaintance with them; but all that they have done on this occasion deserves the gratitude and thanks of this House—not only on account of the skill and enterprise with which they surmounted all those difficulties so well described by the noble Lord, but also for the general tenor of their conduct towards the people against whom their operations were directed. It is perfectly true, that by their original instructions they were directed to abstain from all acts of violence upon the population of China, which were not actually and absolutely necessary for the prosecution of their military operations: but in carrying out their instructions those officers proved that they had in their own breasts the same feelings that had dictated the instructions, and it must be remembered, that it is far easier for a Government to write such instructions in the calmness of the cabinet, than it is for officers in command to cause them to be obeyed by troops flushed with victory, and
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still heated by the excitement of the conflict. That is a point which ought to be borne in mind by the House when considering the vote of thanks now before them, for there is another and important consideration connected with it—namely, that it was the humanity and forbearance of our troops towards the people of China which essentially contributed to the success of our military operations. That conduct excited in the minds of the people of the country a friendly feeling towards us, and we know that the Chinese expressed the utmost astonishment at the forbearance of our troops. They had been accustomed to give no quarter to their captives, but to practice the utmost barbarity upon all whom they vanquished; and they were surprised that the English should take so much pains, expose themselves to danger and death, and expend so much treasure, for the purpose of inflicting wounds upon the Chinese, which afterwards they took so much trouble to cure. That is an illustration both of the character of the Chinese and of the contrast afforded by the conduct of our troops. I remember Mr. Canning ridiculing the idea of sending out 16,000 bayonetted philosophers to enlighten the people of Sicily; but we have now seen a smaller body of men, philosophers of the same kind, who, instead of exhibiting that ferocity usually displayed by men with arms in their hands, have, by the force of their example, taught their enemy a lasting lesson of mercy to captives, and of humanity towards the conquered. The noble Lord [has dwelt upon those who have not been included in this particular vote. By the practice of Parliament, it is impossible the vote can extend beyond the range it has taken; but perhaps I may be permitted to say, in seconding this motion, that although this House cannot vote their thanks, I trust that the minds of hon. Members will be not the less imbued with feelings of gratitude towards those who, although not included in the vote, have done their country good service. And first, I should say, that that gratitude is eminently due to the late Governor-general of India, Lord Auckland, who, by the zeal and promptness with which he sent reinforcements, so greatly facilitated the military operations. And I would also say, that such feelings are claimed by Sir Henry Pottinger, of whom, upon a late occasion, the right hon. Baronet spoke at once so hand-

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somely and so justly, and to whose energy, skill, and conduct we are so deeply indebted for the treaty which has been effected. As for the results which may follow that treaty, it is not for me to express any particular expectation; but it is impossible that it should not be attended with the most important and beneficial results. It is perfectly true, as stated by the noble Lord, that the mercantile interests of this country ought not to rush too impetuously into the market thus newly opened to them until the results of the treaty shall be better developed, and if individuals do so it is possible they may meet with temporary and partial disappointment. But when we consider the magnitude of the population with which we are about to open an intercourse, the vast resources and wealth of the empire with which we are about to have an extended commerce, how many wants they have which it is in our power to supply, and how many things they possess which we should be glad to take in return, it is impossible not to see that great and important advantages must result from the successful termination of this war. There is one circumstance which cannot escape the attention of the people of this country, which is, that although, thank heaven, we have lately enjoyed many years of peace, yet our army and navy have not forgotten the art of war in the relaxation of that peace; that although the sword has rested in the scabbard it has not rusted there; and that although the thunder of our navy has now long reposed in slumber, yet when roused into action, it is not less formidable than in former days. It cannot but be satisfactory to the people of England to observe, that whenever events may call for the display of our military or naval power, to maintain the interests, or vindicate the honour of the country, the army and navy of Great Britain will be found as they have ever been, fully equal to the maintenance of those interests or the vindication of that honour. This also is a circumstance worthy of note, that on those occasions, when of late years our army and navy have had to act, great events have been brought about by a comparatively small number of men. The noble Lord has stated the number of the forces employed in China, and that number has proved fully adequate to the service required of them, although far less than those numbers which we have seen employed in ac-
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tive service in former years. Thus these events must furnish to the people of England the double satisfaction of finding that the army and navy are fully able to sustain the reputation they acquired at any former period, and of observing also that comparatively small portions of those forces are capable of accomplishing important results. I have the greatest possible satisfaction in giving my cordial and hearty concurrence to the motion of the noble Lord.
Question put as follows,—
"That the thanks of this House be given to Lieutenant-general Sir Hugh Gough, G.C.B., Vice-Admiral Sir W. Parker, G.C.B., and Commodore Sir Gordon Bremer, K.C.B., for the distinguished skill, intrepidity, and indefatigable zeal, with which they have conducted the combined operations of her Majesty's naval and military forces on the coast and on the inland waters of China; whereby a series of brilliant and unvaried successes has been concluded by an honourable peace on the terms proposed by her Majesty.
"That the thanks of this House be given to Major-general Lord Saltoun, K.C.B., Major-general George Burrell, C.B., Major-general Sir Robert Bartley, K.C.B., Major-general Sir James Holmes Schoedde, K.C.B., and the other officers of the navy, army, and Royal Marines, including those in the service of the East-India Company, both European and native, for the energy, ability, and gallantry with which they have executed the various services which they have been called upon to perform.
"That this House doth acknowledge and highly approve of the gallantry, discipline, and uniform good conduct displayed by the petty officers, non-commissioned officers, and men of the navy, army, and Royal Marines, including the troops in the service of the East-India Company's service, both European and native; the cordial good feeling which has subsistsd between all the branches of the united services; and the honourable emulation exhibited by all in the discharge of the various duties required by the peculiar naure of the operations to be performed; and that the same be communicated to them by the commanders of the several ships and corps, who are respectively desired to thank them for their gallant behaviour."
Sir C. Napieragreed with the noble Lord who had just sat down as to the clearness with which the noble Mover had brought forward the whole matter, and he felt he should not do his duty if he did not bear testimony to the gallant conduct, not only of Sir W. Parker and the naval officers, but of the military officers likewise. He had been accustomed to go up rivers, and storm batteries; and he knew what it

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was: and he must say, that he thought the skill displayed by Sir W. Parker was unequalled in naval history. He quite agreed too in the eulogium pronounced upon Sir Gordon Bremer, and at the same time he must express his regret that the noble Lord should have omitted to mention Captain Senhouse, who, in the absence of Sir William Parker, had made the first attack upon Canton, and had lost his life in his devotion to the service. There was also another circumstance which the noble Lord had omitted to mention, that, in the first attack upon Canton, at the latter part of the destruction of the batteries, Sir H. Gough arrived in time to avenge the death of his (Sir Charles Napier's) gallant Friend and relative. He would now say no more than express his cordial concurrence in the motion.
Sir G. Stauntonsaid, that whatever might be the opinion of any person of the original policy and justice of the war; and he was perfectly satisfied both of the abstract justice and practical expediency of our operations in China, it was impossible not to entertain peculiar satisfaction at its brilliant result. It was a great consolation to consider that whatever temporary suffering the Chinese might have experienced, yet the ultimate consequences of the war would be more beneficial to them than to this country. It would, moreover, be the first step towards introducing Christianity into that great empire. He must further express his regret that the name of Sir H. Pottinger could now be included in the present vote of thanks. He was sure, however, that if it could have been done that distinguished officer would have received the unanimous thanks of the House.
Sir R. Inglissaid, that, without entering into the question of the origin of the war, he concurred with the noble Lord who seconded the motion in thanking Heaven that we had been so long at peace, and he would add that he thanked God that the wars in which we had been recently engaged, had been brought to an end. But while by the present motion they thus acknowledged the obligation which they felt to be due to the human instruments of success, they ought, as Christian legislators, also to express their gratitude to that great source from which all blessings were derived. Although he would not yield to any one in his sense of services rendered by the army and navy,
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and by the plenipotentiary, yet he desired that some one should express that feeling which, although it could not be decorously put to a vote, as if it were a matter which would be negatived, might yet be properly expressed in debate—namely, gratitude to the great cause of the blessings we had received. He trusted, that the Chinese would receive more substantial benefit from the termination of the war, by the example of our moderation and humanity, and by the introduction of the Christian principles which we professed, than we had derived glory from the manner in which the peace had been achieved.
Mr. Humeconcurred in the motion, but wished for an explanation why Sir Henry Pottinger was not included in the vote? The evils at the beginning of the war had arisen from the want of such an able director. He had been glad to observe the cordial feeling that had subsisted between the army and the navy.
Sir R. Peel: The unanimous disposition of the House to express their commendation of the zeal, energy, and gallantry, as well of the officers in command as of every man concerned in these operations, induces me to say, that I most cordially concur in all those expressions of admiration which I have heard. With respect to Sir Henry Pottinger, I think that the opportunity which I took on a former occasion of publicly acknowledging the sense entertained by the Government of the services of that distinguished man, must exempt the Government from the suspicion of wishing to throw any slight upon him. I then took the opportunity of stating, that nothing could exceed the zeal, discretion, and forbearance of Sir Henry Pottinger. And now, when others concerned in the same expedition are to receive a mark of public gratitude, I should be sorry to allow the opportunity to pass without repeating the sentiments I then expressed. I wish it had been consistent with usage to have included the name of Sir Henry Pottinger in the vote; but at the same time I think it of great importance to adhere in these matters strictly to precedent; because if we did not do so—if we did not strictly adhere to those precedents, which I think have been founded upon good sense, every omission that we happened to make in a vote of this nature would imply a censure. We avoid the risk of such an implication by adhering to the established usage. If

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the hon. Gentleman were right in supposing that Sir Henry Pottinger had had committed to him the conduct of the naval and military operations, in that case, undoubtedly, Sir Henry Pottinger's name ought to be included in the vote. But Sir Henry Pottinger was her Majesty's plenipotentiary, entrusted with the diplomatic arrangements of the expedition against China, and all the direct control that Sir Henry Pottinger had over the naval and military operations was to direct their suspension, in case his negotiations arrived at such a point as to render a suspension of hostilities desirable. I apprehend, that there is no instance in which a diplomatic agent of the Government has received the thanks of Parliament for the successful completion of any negotiation, however important, or of any treaty, however advantageous to the interests of this country. This explanation, I think, will convince the hon. Gentleman and the House that as Sir Henry Pottinger's functions were diplomatic, not military or naval, no reflection is cast upon his great and valuable services by the omission of his name in the vote of thanks now under the consideration of the House. I certainly think, that the precedent of including the names of diplomatic servants in votes of this nature is one that we ought to pause before we establish. I can well enter into the feelings of this distinguished man—distinguished not only for his civil qualifications, but for his military service—when he sees this public acknowledgment of the brilliant achievements of his brothers in arms, and feels that he cannot partake in the thanks of Parliament. As a proof of the entire approbation which her Majesty's Government entertains of Sir Henry Pottinger's services, and of the confidence which we place in him, I may say, that, finding him appointed by our predecessors, we took the earliest opportunity of assuring him that a continuance in her Majesty's service in China would be acceptable to us. At the same time we have intreated him to give to the public the advantage of his services, by continuing to conduct the affairs of Great Britain in that quarter of the globe. I fear that his answer will be in the negative. He has this excuse, that such has been his devotion to the public service, that for the last forty-six or forty-seven years he has been employed in India, and yet in all that period has only been absent one year and a half. We have, however,
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entreated him to remain until we can benefit by his opinions and advice upon many important matters connected with the adjustment of our future relations with China; and I assure the hon. Gentleman that, if Sir Henry Pottinger will recall his decision and remain permanently in China, he will possess the entire confidence of her Majesty's, Government, and we should think that we had succeeded in making the arrangement of all others the most beneficial to the country. I hope I have said enough to show, that her Majesty's Government are not insensible to the high services of Sir Henry Pottinger, and that we regret, as sincerely as the hon. Gentleman can do, that the adherence to established usage precludes us from making a public acknowledgment of them.
Resolutions agreed to new, con.
It was also
Ordered, "That Mr. Speaker do communicate the said resolutions to Lieutenant general Sir Hugh Gough, bt. G.C.B. Vice-Admiral Sir William Parker, G.C.B., Commodore Sir Gordon Bremer, K.C.B., Major-general Lord Saltoun, K.C.B., Major-general George Burrell, C.B., Major-general Sir Robert Bartley, K.C.B., Major-general Sir James Holmes Schoedde, K.C.B; and that Lieutenant-general Sir Hugh Gough, Vice-Admiral Sir William Parker, Commodore Sir Gordon Bremer, Major-general Lord Saltoun, Major-general George Burrell, Major-general Sir Robert Bartley, Major-general Sir James Holmes Schoedde, be requested to signify the same to the officers serving under their respective commands."

HEALTH OF TOWNS.
Mr. Mackinnon, in moving for leave to bring in a bill to improve the health of towns, by preventing interments within their precincts, promised not to detain the House by many observations. It was his anxious desire, that this bill should have been taken up by her Majesty's Government; but as the right hon. Baronet, the Secretary of State for the Home Department, did not appear willing to undertake it, he (Mr. Mackinnon) felt it to be his duty to proceed with the measure which he had proposed. When he first introduced the subject to the attention of Parliament; it was received with a levity which it did not deserve. Opinion, however, had since changed upon the subject; the public prints had taken it up; the evils of the existing system had been fully exhibited and strongly deprecated, and it was now perfectly impossible that that system could be allowed to continue. It had been as-

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serted on the part of the Dissenters, that the measure which he brought forward had been framed by the Bishop of London, or by some of the dignitaries of the Established Church, and that it was designed to injure the dissenting interests. He emphatically denied both those assertions. The bill emanated entirely from himself, and had no design or intention of dealing with Dissenters in any other way than it proposed to deal with the members of the Established Church.
Mr. Humeagreed with the hon. Member for Lymington as to the necessity of adopting some measure of this kind. The subject, however, was necessarily one of so much detail and of so much complication as to render it next to impossible for an individual Member to frame and carry such a measure as the great importance of the subject demanded. He should be glad, therefore, to see it undertaken by the Government. He was satisfied, that if some measure of this kind was adopted, and some general regulations laid down to secure a more perfect drainage and a better plan of building, London would become one of the healthiest places in the world.
Sir J. Grahamadmitted the great importance of the three subjects to which the hon. Member for Montrose had alluded. It was, undoubtedly, desirable to prevent interments in cities, to secure a perfect drainage, and to improve the mode of building. Each and all of these subjects were under the consideration of her Majesty's Government. With respect to interments in cities, careful inquiries were now in progress. All the appliances which the Government could command were directed to obtain information upon the subject, and although they were not as yet prepared with any measure sufficiently mature in details to command the consideration of the House, he did not entirely despair of being able, before the Session terminated, to bring forward some proposition upon the subject. Not being prepared to do so at the present moment, it would be unbecoming in him to offer any opposition to the introduction of the measure proposed by the hon. Member for Lymington. At the same time he was bound to say, that if the measure of this year resembled that which his hon. Friend introduced towards the close of the last Session, he could not hold out the prospect that he should feel it consistent with his duty to give it his support. With respect to
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the subject of drainage, it was the intention of Government to appoint a commission, composed in a great part of scientific men, to investigate the question, and to ascertain the best principle upon which a general system of drainage could be adopted. With respect to the regulation of building, he had already given notice to the commissioners of Woods and Forests that it was the intention of Government to bring in a bill for the better regulation of building in the metropolis. That bill had been framed with great care, after due consultation with the ablest architects.
Mr. Hawesthought the statement of the right hon. Baronet extremely satisfactory. All three of the subjects to which he had adverted were of the utmost importance to the metropolis. After the statement which had been made by the right hon. Gentleman, he hoped that the hon. Member for Lymington (Mr. Mackinnon) would inform the House what course he proposed to take. He (Mr. Hawes) had a strong objection to the measure proposed by the hon. Gentleman, although it was not his intention to oppose the introduction of it; but after the declaration made by the right hon. Baronet that the subject was immediately under the consideration of Government, and that it would probably be in his power, before the Session ended, to introduce a bill upon it, he hoped that the hon. Gentleman would not press his own measure to a second reading, until some further progress had been made in the inquiry which her Majesty's Government had instituted.
Mr. Bickam Escottwould not oppose the introduction of the bill; but at the same time he could not help doubting whether his hon. Friend had read the evidence given before the committee, upon whose report he supposed the bill was founded.
Mr. Mackinnonsaid, that after the representations which had been made to him from almost every quarter, of the injurious effects that resulted from the present system of interments, he should feel it to be his duty to proceed with his bill. He had been appealed to by many hon. Friends to postpone his bill, in order that the Government measure might be brought forward. If by postponing it he could think that he should be accelerating the measure of Government, he would willingly adopt that course; but, believing that by urging his own bill forward there would be a greater chance of stimulating the right

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hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department to forward his own measure, he should persist in his motion for leave to bring in the bill.
Sir W. Clayapproved of the object of the measure, but was of opinion that his hon. Friend would act more wisely by postponing it until the Government bill should be brought forward, than by pressing it to a further stage.
Mr. M. Phillipshad received communications from the town he represented (Manchester) hostile to the measure which the hon. Member introduced last year, and as the present bill appeared to be quite similar to the former one, he apprehended that the same objections would be urged against it.
Motion agreed to. Leave given.

THE AFFGHAN WAR.
Mr. Roebucksaid, that in consequence of the motion for a vote of thanks to Lord Ellenborough having been postponed from Thursday next to the following Monday, it would be impossible for him to bring forward his motion upon the subject of the Affghan war on the day he had appointed; and as other engagements would prevent his attendance in the House on the day fixed, he wished to ask the right hon. Baronet to postpone his motion for a vote of thanks till the Friday following.
Sir R Peelwas very sorry if by delaying the motion for a vote of thanks, he had interfered prejudicially with the motion of which the hon. and learned Gentleman had given notice. Nothing was further from his intention than so to interfere. He had fixed his motion for Monday next, because (and in noticing the fact, he hoped he was not transgressing the usages of Parliament) that they had been fixed for a similar motion in the other House of Parliament. The papers took a longer time printing than was expected, and on bringing them up yesterday, and finding that they consisted of nearly 500 pages, he felt that he was conforming with the general sense of the House by reluctantly consenting to postpone his motion till Monday. With respect to the motion itself, he, referring to precedents, should confine the vote of thanks strictly to military operations. He could not now bring the motion forward at an earlier period, consistently with the usages of the House, than Monday. He could not conceive why it should override the motion of the
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hon. and learned Gentleman. It would be quite competent for him to bring forward his motion on Tuesday. Considering all the circumstances, he (Sir R. Peel) felt that any further delay of his motion would be inconvenient.
Subject at an end.

THE DISTRESS OF THE COUNTRY— ADJOURNED DEBATE.
The order of the day for resuming the Adjourned Debate on the Distress of the Country having been read,
Mr. Ewartrose and expressed his approbation of the motion which the noble Lord the Member for Sunderland, had brought under discussion. He considered the noble Lord justified in making the motion by the condition, feelings, and sufferings of the people. If he went further than the noble Lord, and broached doctrines which the noble Lord might not be prepared to support, he begged the House to believe, that he should do so from the sincerest conviction of their soundness. He hoped he should be considered guilty of no discourtesy towards the hon. Member for Knaresborough, if he did not dwell on the arguments contained in the speech with which that hon. Member closed the debate of last night. The hon. Gentleman's main arguments were directed against machinery and free-trade. Considering that her Majesty's Government, to their great credit, were the advocates equally of machinery and the extension of free-trade, he should leave the hon. Member to be answered by his own friends, by their conduct and principles. He (Mr. Ewart) had heard with mingled feelings of satisfaction and surprise the speech of the right hon. Gentleman the Vice-President of the Board of Trade. It was a speech of mingled tendency. All the principles of the speech were in favour of free-trade, while all its parentheses were in favour of protection. What did the right hon. Gentleman say on the subject of the Corn-laws? He did not deny that they were a source of evil; while on the subject of the importation of cattle he was equally inconsistent. The right hon. Gentleman consoled, on the one hand, the country gentlemen by assuring them that the importation of cattle had been exceedingly small, while on the other hand, he consoled the people by telling them that he was sorry he could not hope for the im-

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portation to be greater. He had always been of opinion, that no minister had ever entered the portals of the Board of Trade, whatever his previous opinions might have been, without sooner or later himself becoming a free-trader. Such was the case with Mr. Huskisson, an illustrious example; and such was the case with respect to Mr. Deacon Hume, one of the most venerated authorities upon the subject; and such was the case with the equally eminent authority, Mr. M'Gregor, and now such is the case with regard to the right hon. Gentleman the Vice-President of the Board of Trade. And although at present the right hon. Gentleman was opposed to any alteration in the sugar duties, yet he (Mr. Ewart) did not despair of seeing a measure introduced under his auspices for carrying a reform of those duties into effect. The Vice-President of the Board of Trade very justly took credit to the present Government for the commercial reforms which were effected last Session. He appealed to the experience which the revival of trade had afforded as a testimony of the truth of the principles of those measures. He had perused those documents which were called "Circulars," and "The Price Current," and he could confirm the assertions of the right hon. Gentleman. Trade in the article of turpentine, on which the duty had been reduced, had already exhibited symptoms of improvements; so also with respect to olive oil and to hides. The duty on rice had been reduced; and since the reduction, the trade in that article between Liverpool and the United States had considerably revived. Again, with respect to palm oil, a great increase of consumption had taken place; and, last of all, the trade with Canada, especially in the article of timber, had shown symptoms of improvement. With respect to timber, he could not help adverting to the great evil attending the postponement of the operation of the altered rate of duty upon that article. In consequence of the postponement of the alteration in the duty, the merchants could not get rid of their stock. This confirmed the opinion he had always maintained, that as soon as the Government adopted a sound principle, it ought to be carried into effect. Though in detail these articles might be considered unimportant, yet they were important as proving the soundness of the principle on
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which the alterations in the duties had been made. And what did it further show? Why, that if the right hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) had gone successfully thus far in the establishing of free-trade principles, he would be justified in going further. If in these articles the right hon. Baronet had gone right, how much more justified would he be in applying the same principles to the articles of sugar and corn? He (Mr. Ewart) noticed with great regret, that at the opening of the present Session, the right hon. Baronet offered no observations with respect to either of those two most important subjects. If the most vital question at this moment was that of corn, the next to it unquestionably was that of sugar. The impression which the right hon. Baronet had left on the minds of those who heard him was, that the question whether or not he would be driven to deal again with the Corn-laws, depended on the agitation which might exist in the country upon the subject. The free-trading part of the community did not understand the right hon. Baronet to say, that he was against an entire repeal of the Corn-laws; they only understood him to say, that he was against any alteration of the law as it stood, for the present. Therefore the advocates of free-trade ought to feel that all depended upon themselves; not by taking any violent proceedings, which they all abjured, but by adopting those legitimate and constitutional means of informing the mind and influencing the feelings of the community. Let the friends of repeal assure the right hon. Baronet that of this sound and constitutional agitation there will be no end. Lectures, treatises, and meetings, whether in the form of literary conversations or social tea parties, were the means which would be used throughout the country to overcome that gentle resistance (for he confessed the resistance was not very strong) which the feelings or prejudices of the right hon. Gentleman's supporters now offered to the dictates of sound reason. Seeing, however, that for the present there was no chance of obtaining any change in the law respecting corn and sugar, it became a duty to ask what minor changes they were likely to obtain? It appeared that the right hon. Gentleman was about to open our trade with foreign countries; but it was with regret he observed that, although the right hon. Gentleman had adopted some, yet he had not adopted all

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of the principles advocated by the late Mr. Hume, of the Board of Trade. That Gentleman laid it down as a principle that we should extend our commerce with the world irrespective of treaties. Diplomacy, he said, ought not to be the mistress of commerce, but commerce ought to be the mistress of diplomacy. Mr. Hume was asked," Is it your opinion that trade would flourish more without the intervention of commercial treaties?" His answer was, "I think we should settle our commerce better ourselves. I go on the principle that it is impossible to import too much. We may be quite sure that the exports would follow in some form or other." This was sound doctrine, and he should desire to see the right hon. Baronet adopt it. But this he refused to do. What were the commercial treaties the right hon. Gentleman was about to adopt? He could not do better than to show how much this country was losing by the non-intercourse system with Brazil, with which we could carry on a very profitable trade if happily we should conclude a commercial treaty. In 1827 there entered into the port of Rio 211 British ships; in 1841 there entered only 123 British ships; and of these 123, only 17 were cleared out of the United Kingdom, showing that a great portion of the trade, even in our own ships, went to foreign ports. Compare this with the ships of the United States. In 1841, 146 American vessels left the port of Rio, 116 of which sailed for the United States. If he were to refer to the ships of other countries, the same unfavourable comparison would be presented. In 1827, 136 American ships entered Rio; in 1841 these were increased to 146; in 1827, 14 ships from Hamburg entered Rio; in 1841 they were increased to 44. In 1827, 24 Swedish ships entered the same port; in 1841, they were increased to 73. In 1827, 3 Danish vessels entered that port; in 1841, they increased to 63, while, during the same two periods, the decrease of British shipping was from 211 in 1827, to 123 in 1841. This was the result of the restrictions imposed on our trade in sugar and coffee with the Brazils. He would not speak of the article of sugar, but would confine his observations to the article of coffee. The coffee crop of the Brazils, in 1841, amounted to 1,013,915 bags. Of this quantity the United States took 431,000 bags, being an increase over the amount taken in 1840 of 125,000
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bags. What did England take? Out of this large crop England only took 69,000 bags, whereas, in the preceding year, we took 88,303 bags; thus, while the trade between the United States and the Brazils was increasing, the trade between England and Brazil was decreasing. If we were to establish a sound system of trade with Brazil, British ships would come direct to England, and the consequence would be that this country would be made the great entrepôt of commerce; which, in justice to her capital and her people, she ought to be. England ought to be the cheapest country in the world; and if the right hon. Baronet would pursue those sound principles which he had commenced acting upon that great object would be achieved. At the beginning of this Session (turning again to the subject of commercial treaties), he had alluded to the importance of our trade with Holland, more especially respecting the port of Java. Since then a report, drawn up by Mr. M'Gregor, had been laid on the Table of the House. That report confirmed the view he at that time took upon the subject. He hoped (since they must carry on their trade through the organ of diplomacy) that some pains would be taken to open a trade with Java. Holland could not supply the manufactures demanded by Java. The growth of sugar in Java had greatly increased. In 1831 the amount was only 7,000 tons while, now, it amounted to 65,000 tons. Hitherto the trade in coffee with Java had been a monopoly, but he hoped that if we concluded a treaty with Holland, that trade would be thrown open. Nothing was more common with the advocates of free-trade to allude to—what had now become a trite subject—the opening of a trade with the United States in the article of corn. Corn was the principal article which the United States had to export, and for which England would gladly exchange her manufactures. According to the last account, the exports of our cotton manufactures to the United States had decreased. The diminution from 1841 to 1842 had been no less than from 38,000,000 of yards in the former year, to 21,000,000 of yards. Calico goods were the most important branch of our cotton manufacture, because a greater amount of labour was employed in it. Our cotton yarns went to supply the means of foreign manufacturers, but calico goods employed native labour. It

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was, therefore, the article of most interest for us to export. The exports of calico to the United States and Brazil in 1838 amounted together to 121,000,000 of yards, whereas in the year 1842 the exports of the same articles to those countries had fallen oft" to as low as 80,000,000 of yards. This was, in his opinion, sufficient to account for the present depressed state of that most important portion of our cotton trade. Such, then, appeared to be the minor resources on which they had to depend. The right hon. Baronet would not open to us the corn trade, nor was he able yet to open to us the sugar trade; these were the minor aids which diplomacy and commercial treaties had to offer to commerce. He hoped the right hon. Baronet would be able to accomplish these minor reforms; and since a greater reform in our commercial code could not be at present effected by him in consequence of the resistance of his friends, he hoped that they would finally be forced upon the right hon. Gentleman by the power of his opponents. He had often told the friends of free-trade agitation that they must rely upon themselves for success, and not build on the hope of their cause attaining (without their own exertions) an ascendancy in that House. Already had the efforts and reasonings of the advocates of free-trade wrought conviction on the minds of many of their former opponents, and those, too, who lived in agricultural districts, and on whom it was never supposed the truth could dawn. But conviction had at length reached then, and he hoped the contagion would extend, and that soon they would have a large portion of the agricultural interest uniting with the majority, if not the totality in the effort to destroy the baneful Corn-law colossus which had so long been the terror of the land. But although the country had not the benefit of a direct trade in corn opened with the United States, under the auspices of the right hon. Baronet, yet he was pleased to think, that there were some symptoms of an indirect and somewhat oblique trade in corn with those states springing up through the ingenuity of the noble Lord, the Secretary for the Colonies. Papers had not yet been laid before the House, to show by what ingenious contrivance a sort of commercial contraband trade in corn with the United States was to be carried on; and by what means American corn was to insinuate
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itself over the boundary of Canada, and ultimately come within the restricted confines of England. But he must confess, that next to a direct practice of free-trade, this species of contraband trade was the most desirable thing that could be wished for. He hoped that the commerce of the country would thus find an indirect source of trade furnished by the ingenious contrivance, or happy negligence of the noble Lord, the Secretary for the Colonies. The noble Lord, the Member for Sunderland, last night dwelt, in an eloquent and able manner, upon the distress of the country. He would not attempt to speak upon a theme which had been so much more ably treated of by that noble Lord. He felt bound, however, to deliver his opinion candidly, whatever might be the sentiments of the hon. Gentlemen by whom he was surrounded; and be would, therefore, state his conviction, that they never would obtain a full and entire development of the principles of free-trade unless they were prepared to reduce the customs and excise duties to such an extent, as to relieve trade from many of the burthens which had hitherto oppressed it, and to impose increased and direct taxation on the amassed capital of the country. Hon. Gentlemen might consider this a new and a startling doctrine, but he was convinced they would find it entertained by many of their constituents, and it was daily gaining ground. Some such remedy he was convinced was indispensable, in order to enable our manufacturers to maintain the struggle in which they were engaged with the foreigner. To prove this, he would draw attention to the state of the export trade in cotton goods. Taking the years 1838 and 1842, it appeared, that though the amount in bulk exported had increased very greatly, the value had materially diminished; the labour was greater, while the receipts were smaller. In 1838 we exported 171,000,0001b. of cottons, and received for them about 17,000,000 l; sterling; in 1842 we exported 268,000,0001b., and received for them only about 15,000,000 l. sterling. That was the shortest proof of the difficulties we had to encounter from the immense amount of foreign competition. The consequence was, that new machinery was set to work, to produce the increased bulk of goods which was required. Then, again, it was well known how much handloom and power-loom cloths had declined. Taking

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up Burn's Commercial Glance, a very valuable work, published in Manchester, it appeared from the statistics given there, that the demand for these cloths had fallen off immensely since 1839. Another symptom of the increase of competition was, that the manufacturer was driven to work up the lower prices of cotton, because he must have cheapness one way or the other to enable him to compete with the foreign producer. The right hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel), if he mistook not, had received an application from the manufacturers of Leeds, begging him to reduce the duty on sheep's wool. The trade in this article had fallen greatly. In 1839, 214,000 bales were imported; in 1842, only 142,000 bales. The fact was, the right hon. Baronet could not reduce the duty on sheep's wool, without at the same time reducing the duty on cotton wool, and this he must do sooner or later; for it would be absolutely necessary, he would find, to abolish the duties not only on these, but on all raw materials, in order to enable our manufacturers to compete with the foreigner; and the right hon. Baronet would have to combine with a repeal of the duties on raw materials, that of the duty on the subsistence of the people, the raw material of labour itself. The existing struggle of the manufacturers pointed to legislation in two directions—a reduction of the excise and customs duties, and a reduction of the duties on raw materials, and on the means of subsistence of the operative. Indeed, there were those who thought that it would be good for the country if those two ancient institutions, the Excise and Customs, were abolished altogether. He did not go quite so far as that; but he thought they might be reduced to a very considerable extent, with signal advantage to the country. He did not go so far as some persons, but he said that the tendency of legislation in future must be towards the reduction of indirect taxation. To fortify himself on this point, he turned to a very eminent authority, who seemed to have anticipated the grievances we were suffering and the times in which we lived. Mr. Huskisson, in a speech on the distress of the country delivered in the year 1830, which the right hon. Baronet probably recollected, said that he felt himself bound, by a sense of public duty, to ask the House whether they could give adequate relief unless they emoved the pressure on that part of
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the national capital which was devoted to the employment of abour, by placing a part of its burthen on that part which was not so engaged. Mr. Huskisson went on to recommend direct taxation as a means of increasing the consumable power of the country, and to declare that if, at any future day, a sense of public interest should induce the Government to act on those views, he should give them his cordial assistance. Now this, which was said in 1830, might very reasonably be applied to our situation in 1843. The right hon. Baronet still preserved a mysterious silence on the subject of the Corn-laws; another year of agitation must elapse before anything was to be done; for the right hon. Baronet, while he declared that he would not alter the Corn-laws had appended two significant words—" at present." The right hon. Baronet had thus held out hopes to the advocates of free trade on the one hand, while he allayed the fears of his agricultural supporters on the other; but he conceived that this could not go on long. If it was justice to continue the Corn-laws, it was injustice to the agricultural interest to keep them in suspense. At present they did not know whether they stood on a sliding scale or terra firma. He trusted that, by another year, agitation would be so generally spread that the right hon. Baronet would not be able to resist the pressure upon him. By repealing those laws he would open new markets for our produce, and by diminishing the pressure of indirect taxation he would increase the power of consumption in this country, and render the manufacturer more competent to enter upon the struggle with foreigners. He would be more likely by these means to scatter food through the population than by any other. These were the demands of justice, they were the demands of sound policy; and he believed that, before another year was past, all classes of monopolists, whether in that House or the other, would be forced to give way, and the measures he had adverted to pressed upon Parliament by the people acting with the energy and unanimity arising from a sense of the justice of their demand.
Mr. Liddellsaid, that it would be difficult to make out from the speech of the hon. Member, who had just addressed the House, any argument in support of the present motion. It appeared to him, that the

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present motion was neither more nor less than a vote of confidence or of want of confidence in her Majesty's Government. He apprehended, that nobody could imagine that the distress which prevailed in the country could he in any way alleviated by an inquiry into the causes of that distress by a committee of that House. Only that, it would take up too much of the public time, that it might be taken as a want of confidence in her Majesty's Government, and he should be glad that the noble Lord carried this motion, just to see what he could make of it. He trusted, however, that the House would reject the motion by a large majority. The hon. Member who had just sat down, as far as he understood his speech, instead of expressing want of confidence in her Majesty's Government, 'in the course of his argument approved of the course they had pursued, though he wished they had proceeded with greater rapidity. He would, therefore, rather apply himself to the speech which had been delivered by his noble Friend, the Member for Sunderland, when introducing his motion. It was not the first time that he had stood in opposition to the noble Lord, and he was always to be respected by his opponents for the ability, the honesty, the integrity, and singleness of purpose by which the noble Lord was distinguished in all transactions whether in public or in private life. He was sure, that in any observations which he felt it his duty to make, the noble Lord would give him credit for acting in accordance with those feelings of respect which were justly due to the character of the noble Lord. The statements of the noble Lord to which he would principally apply himself, were those which related to that part of the country with which he himself was more particularly connected. The noble Lord had alluded to the condition of Sunderland which he admitted was far from satisfactory, and also to the condition of the two great agricultural counties of Northumberland and Durham as the foundation for his motion. With respect to the condition of the port of Sunderland, he was not prepared to dispute the facts adduced by the noble Lord, but he was prepared to state other facts in explanation of them. It was well known, that the prosperity of the port of Sunderland depended on two branches of trade, namely, the coal trade and shipping. The difficulties which the coal trade at present suffered were difficulties common to many branches
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of trade. These difficulties arose from the immense competition that prevailed in every branch of that trade which, within the last few years, it had been thought offered such inducements to the employment of capital, that an immense amount of capital was invested in coal-mines, and almost every portion of the extensive coal field of Durham had been consequently brought into production. The noble Lord was aware, that all the coal from the district south of the Wear, and a great deal of coal from the coal-field north of the Wear, had heretofore come to the port of Sunderland. But the noble Lord was also aware, that with respect to a great portion of the coal from the district north of the Wear, since the establishment of certain railways coal was transferred to the river Tyne, because its port was found to be more convenient and commodious than the port of Sunderland. The noble Lord was also aware that, within a few years back, the port of Seaham harbour had been also established, and that all the coal from the extensive collieries of the Marquess of Londonderry, by whom the harbour was completed, were now brought to that port. The noble Lord must also know that upon the line of coast, not more than twenty miles from Sunderland, a new harbour—that of Hartlepool had been established. It was to be re collected, that to those causes was, in some degree, owing the decline of the prosperity of Sunderland. Besides this, within the last few years, the port of Hartlepool had risen into rapid and considerable importance, That town had some time ago felt anxious to be disconnected from the port of Stockton, and had made an application to that effect to her Majesty's Government, resting its claim on the importance of its trade, and the amount of business now transacted in the port of Hartlepool. The memorial was signed by the merchants, bankers, ship owners, and others interested in the trade of the port of Hartlepool. The memorial slated that, in former days, Hartlepool was an important maritime station, but that for centuries it had declined, and in 1832 it was little more than a fishing town, and at this time it was at its lowest point. In that year a company was formed for the formation of docks and a railway, which connects Hartlepool with valuable coal mines, for the shipment of which Hartlepool afforded a great facility. He would ask the House to attend to the progress of this town, and

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they would see that the depressed state of Sunderland was owing not so much to the general condition of the country as to other circumstances affecting its trade. In 1835 there were only three sloops registered for the port of Hartlepool. In 1843 there were ninety ships, the tonnage of which amounted to 20,180 tons; and representing a capital of 208,80 l. In 1842 2,678 ships with 559,766 tons of coal cleared coast-wise, and 41,994 tons of shipping entered the harbour for refuge from that port. Since the tariff, 67 British and 141 foreign ships had cleared from Hartlepool for foreign ports. When the House had heard so much of the state of Sunderland, it was right that it should be shown, on the contrary, that although Sunderland had become depressed, in the very same time the trade of Hartlepool had increased. It was quite true that the coal trade was considerably embarrassed, and why? Because there was an amount of speculation in that trade, and an amount of capital invested and powers employed in the raising of coal, which he did not hesitate to say, were adequate to supply double the demand for that article in England and the rest of the world. In consequence of these circumstances, the coal owners were compelled to enter into an agreement amongst themselves to apportion the supply to the different collieries in some proportion to the demand, and their respective powers of supply. The embarrassment in the coal trade did not arise in consequence of the existing state of the country, but from particular circumstances connected with that trade. The noble Lord stated, in the course of his speech, that the coal duty imposed last year had greatly augmented this embarrassment. It was not for him representing the constituency that he did, to say anything in support of that duty. He trusted that the Government would not continue that duty for a longer period than the circumstances of the country require. But, at the same time he felt grateful to the Government for the concessions they had made last year, in consequence of the representations urged upon them. They might congratulate themselves that they had made those concessions, for if they had persevered in the scale of duties originally proposed, the produce would have been nil; but he believed that, under the scale of duties that had been determined upon, little, if any, reduction in the amount of coals ex-
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ported would take place. In answer to this part of the statement of the noble Lord he would refer to the condition of the port of Newcastle. At a dinner held in Newcastle, a short time ago, to celebrate the anniversary of the establishment of the Chamber of Commerce in that town, the collector of customs in returning thanks for his health, made a statement, which showed that the trade of that port had improved. The hon. Member read the statement, which showed an increase in the customs duties of that port for the year 1842, as compared with 1841 of 23,000 l., the customs duties for 1841 being 409,815 l.; and those for 1842 432,787 l. With regard to the quantity of coals exported from Newcastle in the first, half-year of 1842, prior to the new impost, no less than 490,150 tons was exported, being the largest amount ever exported in the same period; but in the succeeding half-year after the imposition of this tax, there was an export of 301,850 tons, which seems a proof that the duty will not ruin the export trade. The statements that he had made were perfectly conclusive as to the condition of the ports of Newcastle and Hartlepool; and as the noble Lord's arguments drawn from the depressed condition of the port of Sunderland would seem to imply the evidence of general distress in the north of England, it was but fair to admit that these accounts indicated a more favourable prospect. At the same time, he (Mr. Liddell) was sorry to say, that no less than 5,000 persons were now in the receipt of in-door and out-of-door relief in the town of Newcastle, which showed that the labouring classes were not exempt from heavy pressure. The noble Lord had alluded to the fall of wages and the increase of the rates in the borough of Sunderland, but, with respect to the increase of rates, it should be recollected that those rates were not merely the poors'-rate, for they also included the borough-rate, the police-rate, the expense of the annual registration of Parliamentary and municipal electors, the expense of the registration of births, marriages, and deaths. The noble Lord had stated that he considered that the New Poor-law had nothing to do with the distress of the country. He differed from that opinion. He had been sorry to see the New Poor-law introduced into the north of England, where, however applicable to other parts of the country, it was not re-

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quired. That law was carried on by an expensive machinery, and a large establishment, and that large additional expense could not be maintained out of the poor-rates without either an increase of their amount or a diminution of the amount of relief afforded to those who were to receive it. The noble Lord had also alluded to the number of uninhabited houses in the town of Sunderland; but let not the House be under the idea that those were houses which had been deserted by their former inhabitants. He had been assured that the rage for house building, like the rage for ship building, had been carried to a great extent in Sunderland, and many of those new houses were never inhabited. The same had happened in Newcastle, where whole streets had been built, and though one could not help admiring the improvements, it was impossible not to regret the want of prudence in building houses which there was no likelihood of being inhabited for a quarter of a century. The noble Lord alluded to the prevalence of agricultural distress in Northumberland, and to the reduced price of stock; but some of the noble Lord's arguments on this head supplied their own answer. The noble Lord had admitted his belief that the new tariff had nothing to do with the depressed price of stock. In that opinion he (Mr. Liddell) concurred. He had conversed with many intelligent agriculturists, who were aware that that depression was owing to the state of the manufacturing districts, and to the reduction of the wages of the labouring classes. The fears from foreign competition were now at an end, as it had been shown that the agriculturists of this country had little to dread from the importation of foreign cattle. The noble Lord was obliged to rest his case, with respect to the farmers, not so much on the existing difficulties, as on those difficulties which might be expected to arise. He was sure, that whenever those difficulties should arise, the landlords would be willing to bear their full share—that they would feel that they were embarked in the same boat with their tenants, and that their interests were the same. He was sure that in the part of the country with which he was acquainted, the landlords would be prepared to render every assistance to their tenants and to bear their full share of any difficulties should any such arise. The noble Lord had spoken of a remedy for the distress that existed, and said
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that the markets for our industry ought to be enlarged. No doubt this for a time would afford a remedy, but the great powers of production which this country possessed would be able to over supply any new demand in a very short time. A friend, with whom he was conversing on the subject some time ago, and who was well acquainted with the manufactures of the country, made use of the remarkable expression, that" if to-morrow we could establish a railway communication with the planets Jupiter and Saturn, and found those planets filled with a population in want of all the necessaries of life, this country would be able to glut their markets in the course of six weeks." Although therefore it was the duty of that House and of the Government to make every effort for the extension of our trade with foreign countries, still those exertions should be accompanied with caution, and we must on no account sacrifice existing and substantial advantages in the pursuit of an object more or less precarious and uncertain. He contended that the noble Lord had altogether failed to make out his case, and that he had overlooked altogether two or three important considerations connected with the difficulties of the country. He (Mr. Liddell) had no hesitation in asserting that the deficient harvests of the last five years had something to do with the present distress. It was impossible not to admit that the real income of the country had suffered diminution to the extent of one-fifth annually, and however the deficiency of produce might have been supplied, pressure would inevitably be felt from so large and continued a deficiency. There was another cause which had not been sufficiently alluded to, namely—the financial derangements of the United States and the cessation of our trade with that country. In 1834 the declared value of our exports to the United States was 6,844,000 l; in 1835 it was 10,000,000 l, in 1836 it was 12,425,000 l.; Let. the House see what a stimulus this must have given to the manufactures of this country. But let them mark the change which had taken place in 1837. The value of our exports to the United States in 1837 fell to 4,500,000 l.;, in 1838 it was 7,500,000 l.;, in 1839 it was 8,839,000 l.;, and in 1840, the last year for which he could obtain a return, it. was only 5,283,000 l.; But since that period, the destruction of all securities whatever in the United States had

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caused a complete interruption of commerce. The mode in which the merchants of the United States traded with this country was as follows:—A merchant from New York came to Liverpool or London, and obtained credit for certain sums in this way. He obtained permission to draw bills on respectable houses in London, or some other town, payable at three or six months, and for which accommodation he paid 1 per cent. With these bills he went to Manchester, and as these bills were considered almost in the light of ready money, he obtained goods on advantageous terms. Those goods were immediately shipped to America, where they found a ready sale, and the money was returned to the acceptors of the bills in this country before the bills were presented for payment. The American merchants, in order to obtain those bills, brought as security over with them shares in the American stocks, or railways or canals, which at the time were considered good security, but at present nothing whatever would be given on the credit of American paper. The discredit is universal, and the stagnation complete, not for want of orders, but for want of confidence, as the parties giving them possess no credit, and can offer no security. It was easy to see that the interruptions of the trade heretofore carried on with the United States must have had considerable effect in producing the depression that prevailed amongst our manufacturers. Looking at the trade of the United States, and the returns to this country, it was not too much to say, that the loss of this trade was one main cause of the manufacturing distress of the country. There was another cause which had not been alluded to,—namely, the Income-tax; but all who knew the state in which the finances of the country was left by the late Government, would concur at once in the opinion that the present Government had acted most patriotically in imposing that tax upon property. Let the House contrast the conduct of the respective Governments of Great Britain and the United States, and see whether such a contrast will not teach us to cling with the more affection to our own institutions, rather than desire to exchange them for a form of Government, depending solely on the unstable will and capricious passions of the people. A few years since, the United States treasury contained forty millions of dollars; now, they were unable to pay even the just
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interest on their debts; which arose from the incapability of the Government of that country to tax the population. He, therefore, called on the House to express their confidence in the Government who had so nobly vindicated their title to govern the country, by meeting the evils which threatened to destroy its prosperity. He (Mr. Liddell) should not then enter into any discussion on the question of the Corn-laws, nor advert to them further than to declare his firm belief that nothing would be productive of more difficulty, more alarm, and greater mischief to the community, than any vacillation in the measures of the last year on that subject. He spoke for a numerous agricultural body, as well as for himself, when he said that he was perfectly satisfied with the declarations of the right hon. Baronet on that point; and he would add, that the more the character of the right hon. Gentleman was attacked, the more determinedly would they rally round him, and support him with their votes, and, if necessary, with their fortunes. They, the Conservative party, had constituted that right hon. Baronet, the defender of the ark of the constitution; and, however, his character might be undermined by unworthy insinuations, or his life threatened by open violence, they would continue to defend him as long as Providence should grant him health and strength to support the difficulties and labours of his responsible position. Under these circumstances, he (Mr. Liddell) should oppose the motion of the noble Lord.
Lord Worsleyunderstood the hon. Member who had just sat down to imply that the motion to be decided that night, was not to be considered solely on the grounds on which it was brought forward by the noble Lord below him, but also as a vote of confidence or of no confidence in her Majesty's Government. He thought, that if the hon. Gentleman had recollected the terms on which hon. Gentlemen on the opposite side of the House were returned, that they were sent to oppose a ministry which had proposed an alteration in the Corn-laws; and if he now appealed to the country, he would find that there was not the same confidence in her Majesty's present Ministers which the agricultural party held at the last election. He believed, that the agriculturists had not the same confidence as the hon. Gentleman who had just sat down in the right hon. Baronet. He believed, that what the

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hon. Gentlemen had left out of his view they had marked well. It was said, that it was not intended to make any alteration in the Corn-laws during the present Session; but he believed that it was still the opinion of the great body of the agriculturists that the distress which they had begun to feel deeply was likely to be increased in consequence of there not being sufficient confidence in the stability of the Corn-laws. They believed that they had put a party in power to resist any change in the Corn-laws—they saw that this very party had introduced a change, and they believed that this same party would bring forward a further change. He was, however, departing from the question before the House, which was, whether they should resolve themselves into a committee of the whole House to consider the state of the country. The distress of the country, except by the last speaker had been admitted by all who had spoken. He was sorry that he must give the same account of the agricultural districts. In the part of the country with which he was connected, there never was such distress known at any previous time; many were out of employment, and many who were employed, received reduced wages; because it was considered by the farmers better to employ the workman at low wages, than to give the same wages as formerly, and do with one or two hands less. In his own county—and he believed that the same thing extended to other counties, where there had been an intention of improving the land by drainage—the farmers had waited to see how the wind would blow, before they laid out their money in improvements. He believed, thefore, that great as was the distress of the manufacturers, the distress of the agriculturists was as great, and would be more deeply felt. The question, however, was, whether the House could, by resolving itself into a committee, arrive at the causes of the distress and discover a remedy for it. His belief was, that if they went into a committee with the view of discovering a remedy, they would only see certain Members on that (the Opposition) side of the House attributing the causes of this distress to the consequences of a bad system of Corn-laws, and saying that they would be removed by an alteration of the system. His opinion was the reverse. He believed, that many on that side of the House did not agree with him, but that many who sat on the other side of the
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House did accord in the opinion, although they did not plainly state it, that it would be better for the country if a decided tone were taken by the Government with respect to the Corn-laws, and if they did not hear the right hon. Gentleman, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, calling the late Corn-laws a temporary measure. He thought, that it would be better for the country if a stand were taken on the Corn-laws. If they went into committee, many Members on that side of the House would attribute the distress to them, and seek a remedy in a change, and a large portion of the other side of the House would be of a different opinion. In fact, that it would only be a Corn-law debate in a committee, and the result would be, that the committee would do nothing. He should be only, therefore, holding out false hopes by voting for a committee of enquiry into this distress, which the committee would not find the means of removing; and consequently, although he deplored the distress, he could not consent to the committee. If he thought it possible for a committee of the whole House to propose a remedy—if he thought that such a committee could come to a practical conclusion—he would waive his objections; but he did not believe that it would be otherwise than a Corn-law debate. In his opinion, they would not be able to get any nearer the truth, by weeks of discussion in the committee, than they now were; and he therefore felt it his duty to resist the motion of his noble Friend, as well as the amendment of the hon. Member for Knaresborough. He knew that he was acting differently from those with whom he usually voted, but he was bound to act in the manner which he thought best for the country, and to give his honest opinion.
Mr. Gaily Knightsaid, that he certainly did not rise to reply to the noble Lord who had just sat down, for he was happy to find that, on this subject, the noble Lord coincided in opinion with himself, and he would, therefore, only take leave to compliment him on the candour with which he had come to that opinion, and on the courage with which he had avowed it. But he did rise, because he wished to make it clear, that if he refused to go into committee, it was not from any indifference to the distress and privations of the manufacturing towns—for, though he did belong to that class which the hon. Member for Stockport called "the

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basest section of the aristocracy," and though he was sent to that House principally by the Heads of Clay, yet he trusted that he was neither so foolish a man, nor so had an Englishman, as not to be aware that the real interests of the agricultural and the commercial bodies were substantially the same, as not to behold the prolonged depression of the manufacturing towns with the sincerest sentiments of sympathy and regret. If he thought that, by going into committee, the depression would really be relieved, whatever might be the inconvenience, whatever might be the toil to which such an inquiry would subject hon. Members, he should say it was the duty of the House not to shrink from the test. But it appeared to him that his right hon. Friend the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, had clearly shown not only that the existing evils would be aggravated by such an inquiry, but also, that the only remedy which the hon. Gentleman opposite had to propose, namely, the total and immediate abolition of the Corn-laws, would not be likely to produce the desired effect. Such a step, a step which would inevitably displace a large amount of agricultural labour, it would be admitted on all hands, ought not to be undertaken without something more than a hope of a considerable extension of our foreign trade. But his right hon. Friend had shown that, as things are, not only would there be no reasonable hope of such an extension, but that, from the tariffs behind which other countries had entrenched themselves, there would be no extension at all, nor could we expect that any relaxations of ours would be followed by corresponding relaxations on the part of other countries, because the contrary had taken place. The noble Lord who asked for this committee seemed to think that that House had the power, by legislation, to remove the distress; but, unless a British act of Parliament would be recognised and obeyed by the chambers of France and the congress of the United States, no good would be done. He hoped that in time, other countries would arrive at a more correct view of their own interests, but he must say that to seize this moment for striking a blow at the Home market did appear to him little short of infatuation. The noble Lord in enumerating the causes of the distress, would not hear of overproduction as one of them, but he had argued that part of the subject in a very
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extraordinary manner. The noble Lord had said that he could not understand what would be the inconvenience of being possessed of a great number of good and useful articles; but the fact was, that we did not make those articles only for ourselves; we wanted our neighbours to take some of them: and if, at one time, we supplied our neighbours very profusely, they would certainly require time to wear out those articles before they would buy any more. This was what he (Mr. Knight) understood by overproduction. This he believed had taken place a few years ago to a considerable extent; and this he still believed to be one cause of the present distress. Again, as to machinery, he hoped he should hear no more of the plough and the harrow because some Gentlemen on his side of the House were of opinion that a portion of the distress might be accounted for by the improvements in machinery; but he knew full well from what he had seen at Nottingham, that improvements in machinery will account for a portion of the present distress. Nottingham he regretted to say, was still in a very depressed state; but, in the midst of this depression, there were factories in full work, and men employed at good wages. How was this? Because the masters of these factories had made most ingenious improvements in the machinery which manufactures lace, and were able to produce a very superior article at a very low price. But the advantages which these factories possessed, throw difficulties in the way of those who possessed them not, and every step in the improvement of machinery had the effect of displacing more and more adult labour. It, therefore, happened that, where such improvements were made, for the few who continued to be employed there were hundreds who were thrown out of work. Did he say that he would check these improvements? No such thing. But he did say that the quantity of adult labour which those improvements displaced was an ingredient in the present distress—that there was more labour displaced than could be absorbed elsewhere, and that he feared this displaced labour would always be a subject of regret to this country unless relief could be provided by a systematic plan of colonization. The noble Lord had asserted that the distress was beginning to extend to the agricultural districts, and wished us, for the sake of the agricultural population, to go into

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committee. The agriculturists were much obliged to him for his solicitude, but they certainly did not desire that House to go into committee on their account. The noble Lord had even insinuated that a further alteration in the Corn-laws would be advantageous to the cultivators of the soil—but they themselves happened to be of a different opinion—and, since the declaration of the right hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government that he does not intend to make any further alteration in the Corn-laws, spirits, and prices were beginning to rise. He thanked the right hon. Baronet for that declaration, and he assured him it would secure to him the cordial support of a large and important portion of the community—and so far from agreeing with the hon. Member for Knaresborough in the opinion that the right hon. Baronet had disappointed the hopes of those who had placed him in power, he would not pass such a libel on this side of the House, he would not impute such selfishness to the agricultural body, as to let it be supposed that, in assisting the right hon. Baronet to power, they wished him to do anything but govern well, and consult the real interests of the whole community—not, indeed, by class legislation—by such legislation as would favour one interest at the expense of another—but by calmly inquiring into the wants and claims of all, and adjusting the balance between the different interests in the fairest possible manner. In this sense it was that the landed interest had accepted the measures of last year. They were aware that it was desirable to obtain fresh outlets for our trade; they were equally aware that some protection was necessary for British agriculturists; not from any miserable consideration of their own private advantage, but because they knew that the abolition of the Corn-laws would throw the whole country into confusion, would ruin at least the present generation of tenants, and displace a large amount of agricultural labour; and they could not be of opinion that any advantage would be gained by merely shifting the scene of distress. It was with these views that they accepted the tariff and the new Corn-law, and so long as the right hon. Baronet continued to them the present protection so long would they do their utmost to keep him in power and keep out those who, it was clear would not afford them any protection at all. The
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noble Lord had said, "why do you legislate for the staff of life upon a different principle from that which you apply to other articles?" The answer was because it is the staff of life, and, therefore, too essential, too vital, an article to be exposed to any risk. A great nation must not be entirely dependant upon other countries for daily bread. And when the noble Lord and his friends congratulated themselves on the expression of "temporary," and anything which had reference to time and circumstance, that fell from the lips of his right hon. Friend the Vice President of the Board of Trade, endeavouring, as it was evident, to excite alarm and mistrust in the minds of agriculturists, and increase the difficulties with which the right hon. Baronet had to contend—he could assure them that that expression filled him (Mr. Gaily Knight) with no alarm—every thing must be called temporary, which is not in its nature perpetual. What minister, what man, would be mad enough to say, that any law in the statute book shall be perpetual? Human life was called a temporary trial, yet it sometimes lasted seventy or eighty years. The present Government could only be called the temporary Government of this country, yet he trusted that it would last for a considerable space of time, and teach Gentlemen opposite that things which must be called temporary may be of a very enduring kind. It appeared to him that the noble Lord should have included in his enumeration of the causes of the present distress, other causes besides those which he had mentioned—he should have included agitation. The disturbances of last autumn, by whomsoever caused, and for whatever object, had checked the return to prosperity. The drains from the savings'-banks, if they proved no more, proved this, that the operatives had thrown away upon objects from which they derived no benefit, a great deal of money which might have contributed to mitigate their privations. No sooner were those disturbances at an end than the agitation was renewed by the Anti Corn-law League—an association which he must ever consider to be illegal and unconstitutional—a mode of proceeding which the noble Lord, who was the head of the late Government, with his usual frankness and patriotic spirit, has declared to be a most improper mode of advancing any question. He (Mr.

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Knight) would not mind the tea-drinkings to which allusion had been made, or the large cards with broad borders, embellished with the countenance of a noble Earl on one side, and with the countenance of the hon. Member for Wolverhampton on the other. But constant appeals to the passions, constant misleadings of the people, allusions to personal responsibility, allusions which alas! had not been made without effect, such things invested the League with a most serious character, and could not be continued without producing the most injurious consequenecs. The presence of the hon. Member for Salford reminded him (Mr. Knight) of a speech which had been made by that hon. Member at a meeting of the League which took place at Manchester in December last. The hon, Member of course recommended the total abolition of the Corn-laws, and added, that he wished it to be immediate for the sake of the agriculturists themselves. The hon. Member illustrated his apparently paradoxical opinions by, not a very sublime, but a rural image. He said "If you were going to cut off a sheep's tail, would it not be much more merciful to cut it off at once, than to give the animal pain at different times." But there was another alternative which did not appear to have entered into the head of the hon. Member. If the sheep had been consulted, and could have explained what be would have preferred, he would probably have said, "Pray let my tail alone." The meetings and operations of the League were calculated to prolong the distress by filling the public mind with uncertainty, delusion, and alarm. A committee of that House would have a very similar effect. If hon. Gentlemen opposite would only abstain from discussions like the present, and allow the measures of the right hon. Baronet a fair trial he (Mr. Knight) was persuaded that we should soon see the first button appearing above the waters, the promise of the gradual subsiding of that tide, which, at one time, menaced destruction.
Mr. Wardwas of opinion that the hon. Member who had just sat down had entirely confounded cause with effect. The hon. Member had spoken of the Anti-Corn-law League as one of the causes of the depression of the industry of the country. It was nothing of the kind. The League, instead of being the cause of the distress, was the consequence of it. Its
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power consisted in the extent of that distress; the secret of its authority lay in the belief of the people that they had no justice to hope for at the hands of that House. And when the hon. Member for North Durham asked him—representing as he did one of the towns which had suffered most severely—most cruelly under the consequences of the system which prevailed—why he voted for the motion of the noble Lord, and what advantage there would be in the House going into a committee of inquiry, and why they should spend their time in fruitless discussion; he begged in turn to inquire for what purpose was that House there assembled? He held that it was their duty to endeavour to discover and to remove the causes of the prevailing distress; no one had denied that distress except the hon. Member himself, and the case which he had made out was that of an isolated prosperity of a small district in the county which he represented, and which was but a dot in the great mass of general distress. England suffered, but Hartlepool throve. The distress was admitted in the Speech from the Throne, and he applauded the framers of that document for the terms in which it was drawn, and for the expression of sympathy which it contained for the miseries of the people. But was it becoming in that House to content itself with such a mere expression of barren commiseration. Were they not bound to follow it up? He maintained that to do so would be to discharge that only which was the legitimate duty of the House, and that they were bound, in performance of that duty to go into the whole question of suffering, which, on all sides, was admitted. Many causes for that suffering had been suggested. The Poor-laws had been mentioned, and the expensive machinery necessary for carrying that law into operation; but he begged to remind the hon. Member for North Durham, who had thrown out the suggestion that, in the North, at all events, this machinery might be dispensed with, that in the report which was made preparatory to the new Poor-law being adopted, Northumberland was mentioned in not very honourable terms, and was specially alluded to as a locality, in which change was particularly required. The hon. Member had spoken also of the building trades, and he had said that in Sunderland this afforded no criterion of the real state of the town. Undoubtedly that might be the case, for it was unquestionable that the building mania had in many

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instances been carried too far. But to come to another point. The hon. Member who spoke last (Mr. Galley Knight) had touched upon the dangers arising from the improvement of machinery, but the hon. Gentleman, before he sat down, had answered his own argument, because he had said that the only trades with which he was now acquainted in Nottingham, that were at all in a prosperous state, were those in which the most recent improvements in machinery had been effected, and which were consequently enabled still to make a profit by employing their hands. No one would deny that the immediate consequences of any new improvement in machinery would be to create a pressure upon that particular branch of the labouring classes immediately connected with the class of articles produced by such machinery; but to talk of limiting, or restricting, the productive powers of the country would be to commit an act of felo de se. Where would such a limitation stop—where must it commence? Would the hon. Member himself give up his agricultural machinery, his threshing machine, his improved ploughs? Was the principle to be applied to the manufacturing and not to the agricultural classes? He thought that it was evident that whatever advantages other countries might possess—although we might have to compete with lower wages, with better climates and superior soil—yet that the last thing which should be attempted was any measure which should have the effect of putting a stop to our productive powers. But the hon. Member had said that he was perfectly satisfied with the declarations of the right hon. Gentleman the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, and that so long as the right hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government, adhered to his present course, he should be assured of his support. The hon. Member, naturally enough, wished to drive a bargain with his leaders. He repudiated the idea that the measures of the Government had only a temporary character, but for the sake of greater security, he said, that if the right hon. Baronet at the commencement of every Session would only make a statement similar to that which the right hon. Baronet had now made, and would assure him that he intended to continue the policy which he had recently adopted, he should always receive the hon. Member's support. That was the condition on which the hon. Member would give his support to the Go-
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vernment. The hon. Gentleman spoke with authority, in the name of the large agricultural body with which he was now connected, and which he said was also quite satisfied with the Government. He thought, however, that it would be wise in the right hon. Baronet to reflect whether he could comply with the conditions proposed, for they were altogether inconsistent with the principles announced by the right hon. Gentleman, who spoke last night, (Mr. Gladstone), and he could only express his sincere hope, not treating this as a party question, and not caring which party was in power, so long as the distresses of the people were relieved, that the right hon. Baronet on this question would not give the country only the benefit of his principles, and his own immediate supporters the advantage of his practice. He maintained that the country was entitled to the fair application of the principles advanced by the right hon. Baronet; and showing, as he should, a mass of suffering which was absolutely appalling, he only expressed a natural anticipation when he declared his conviction that the Government could not take upon itself the responsibility arising from the continuance of such a state of things, by refusing to carry out its own principles, or consequently give its adhesion to a stationary policy such as that which would secure for them the votes of the hon. Member for the City of Nottingham and his friends. He would beg now to call the attention of the Government to the facts upon which he rested this belief, as regarded the town of Sheffield. He did not want to exaggerate, or over-state, the case—for exaggeration never helped a bad cause, and always hurt a good one. The facts which he should state, if the right hon. Baronet and the right hon. Gentleman were sincere in their principles, would force them to re-consider the possibility of their taking a stand on the poor pittance of commercial reform hitherto given to the country. When he had first known Sheffield, in the year 1836, there was not he believed, a single able-bodied man of good character out of employment; there were 300 houses building, and comfort and respectability were generally diffused; the payments to the casual poor, which must arise in all towns of a population of 100,000, amounted to 13 l; 15 s; weekly, and no more, and there was not then in England, he believed, a working population possessed of the same means of

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comfort. From 1836, he would pass over three or four years during which the prosperity in Sheffield first sustained a check. Undoubtedly the financial embarrassments of America, to which allusion had been made, had had a good deal to do with the distress which arose in the course of that time. But he would come to the year 1839. That was a very bad year, and 1840 was worse; and just at the very moment when the price of bread was increased to nearly double what it had been three years before, the demand for labour was reduced, and the rate of wages became, consequently proportionately low. In January 1842, wheat was 65 s. 2d. per quarter; a sum of 1,400 l. was raised by voluntary subscription for the relief of the people; the weekly payments due to the casual poor, in the month of February, amounted to 178 l.; in March, to 194 l.; in April, to 278 l. In the month of May there were in the Sheffield poor-house 580 inmates; and the payments to the casual poor amounted to 333 l. At this very time large payments were made by all the trades' unions which were possessed of funds, with a view to the parishes being relieved of the immense burthens that must otherwise have fallen on them, and from this source alone 20,000 l; were paid in the course of three years. In July wheat was at 67 s. 8d; the weekly payments to the casual poor reached 441 l.; in August wheat was at 65 s; per quarter; the weekly payments amounted to 492 l., and there were supposed to be at this time 3,000 adult men and 1,500 women unemployed. In September and October the following report was made by a charitable society, which could not be suspected of any political taint, for the report was signed by a gentleman whose authority hon. Members opposite would not dispute, for he was as good a Conservative as any of them.
"SEPT. 6th.—Average price of wheat, 52 s; 4d;—7th. Sheffield poor; In the house, 585; casual poor, week's payments, 503 l; Ecclesall poor: In house, 374; out-payments, 132 l.
"OCT. 5th.—Sheffield Poorhouse: Inmates, 536; casual poor, 467 l; Ecclesall union: In the house, 452—against 258 last year; out-poor, 121 l.
Report of bettering society: Since the year 1837, there has been manifestly a most disasterous turn in trade, and manufactures here, not the consequence of a sudden shock from violent, and temporary derangement,
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traceable to obvious causes, severe, and heavy for a while, as on former occasions, for which if slowly, yet surely, amendment followed, but a progressive decay, like the fatal, and insidious symptoms of consumption in the human frame, tending towards inevitable destruction. The oldest inhabitant of Sheffield cannot remember a crisis of calamity so general, and apparently so hopeless, as that which has come upon us. The labouring classes have been going down into abject destitution."
This Report was signed by Mr. Montgomery, whose name and reputation were known to the House. In November a sum of 250 l. was granted by the London Manufacturers' Relief Committee, and some little relief was afforded by the fall in price of wheat, which now reached an average price of 46 s; but there were on the 19th of that month in the Sheffield poor-house 615 inmates, besides 1,083 Casual poor; the payments to the Casual poor amounted to 420 s; and the trades' unions stated that the funds altogether applied to the relief of the unemployed poor amounted to 29,356 l. during the la6t four years and a-half. In December wheat was 47 s.; the weekly payments to the casual poor were 412 l; in amount; a sum being thus paid, in one week, only 212 l. short of the whole amount paid in one year in 1836. Now, had things improved in the last year? At a meeting of the Sheffield Banking Company, on the 27th January, a report was read, which stated,
"The period comprised in the report which the directors have now to lay before you has been one, as you all know, of continued commercial embarrassment and depression."
The Sheffield and Rotherham Banking Company had also made, in Jan. 1843, a report containing the following passage:—
"In presenting the Seventh annual report of the affairs of the bank, the directors have again to deplore the continuance of commercial depression and embarrassment in every branch of trade."
And this was signed by six directors, all of whom were good Conservatives. So much for the banking interests in and about Sheffield. With regard to house property, there never had been any building mania in that town. In 1837, there were only 300 houses building. At the present moment, there were 3,400 houses ante-

607
nanted. And a gentleman, in whom he had the greatest confidence, and who was possessed of many houses, had written to him in the following terms:—
"I have not at this moment a single tenant who is not in arrears with his rent—some two, others three half years, and I believe this to be the general condition of the town."
Another leading merchant wrote,
"I am sorry to say that the affairs of this town are worse and worse, and no appearance of improvement. The distress is intense, and increasing. The sums raised for the relief of the poor are, 1840, 26,000 l; 1841 35,000 l; 1842 52,000 l; and if we measure what this year will be, by what the months of November, December, and January last have been, 1843 will give 64,000 l; I fear it will give more, not less. It is positively fearful."
He had received also a return of the present state of the Sheffield and Ecclesall unions, down to the 4th February last, showing the payments to the casual poor, and the numbers of able-bodied paupers. The return of the Sheffield union was as follows:

SHEFFIELD UNION, CONTAINING TOWNSHIPS OF SHEFFIELD, ATTERCLIFFE, AND BRIGHTSIDE, AND THE PARISH OF HANDSWORTH:ߞ

1843.

Jan. 7.

Jan. 14.

Jan. 21.

Jan. 28

Feb. 4.

£

£

£

£

£

Payments to casual poor

505

509

492

498

486

Number of able bodied

1,274

1,295

1,297

1,362

1,331

It was slated, also, that a considerable number of able-bodied artizans were working as labourers on the Sheffield and Manchester railway, and thus the casual payments were kept down by 70 l; or 80 l; per week. The other return which he would lay before the House was thisߞ

ECCLESALL UNION, CONTAINING TOWNSHIPS OF ECCLESALL, UPPER AND NETHER HALLAM, NORTON, HEAUCHIEF, AND DORE.

Out Payments.

In Paupers.

1843.

Same wk. of 1842, last qr.

1843.

Same wk. of 1842.

Jan. 7

£134

80

420

259

14

136

88

420

261

21

143

83

435

356

28

166

93

434

263

Feb.4

141

93

444

276

608
But besides these returns, he had received letters from working men in the town, who stated the sufferings which they had now to undergo, which showed the hopeless state to which all classes were reduced, and exhibited a state of misery and depression of the most heartrending character. One of these letters said, that there was nothing but
"Increasing misery, increasing pauperism, increasing crime, with decreasing employment, decreasing capital, decreasing hope, and, above all, decreasing religion and morality; and the industrious classes see not merely their domestic comforts and respectability annihilated, but their power to purchase the commonest articles of food or clothing destroyed.
Upwards of 1,000 families were still supported by their trades in lieu of receiving parochial relief, and from this source they obtained 8s; per week, which, however, was to pay their rent, their rates, (for in Sheffield every man not actually receiving parish relief was rated), and to procure the necessaries of life; "and yet," it was said by his informant,
"This they prefer to parish relief, and to the wretchedness of wandering over the roads and streets with a broom or rake, with empty bellies, in storms and cold, and what is even worse to the sensitive and once independent mind of a skilled mechanic who has lived in comfort and respectability for 26 or 30 years, the degradation which they actually feel when forced to stoop to parish relief."
These were feelings, in which he thought that every Member of that House, on whichever side he sat, must deeply sympathise. They might disagree, but nobody could help feeling the deepest commiseration for a whole population, thus reduced to misery without any fault of its own? He believed, that it was the anxious wish of her Majesty's Government that some remedy should be devised; but was it consistent with this desire, that a motion like the present, directed to the very object, which all must have in view, should be met, and got rid of, upon a miserable ground of technicality, that the committee was not the best means of attaining the desired end? The distress was now reaching all parties, and those, who not long since had deemed themselves secure from all apprehension on this score, now

609
found themselves deeply, and seriously, affected. Even the agriculturists found that they were not proof against its attacks. How did the case stand? Some of the trades and manufactures of Sheffield were of a nature to attract many of the respectable orders of society; and the sons, or relatives, of agriculturists from the adjoining counties of Derby and Nottingham had found their way to that town, and found profitable and respectable employment in its manufactures. It had been said that the trade was dependent upon the opulent and the home market only; and it was naturally supposed that while the prices of home-grown provisions were high, employment would be plentiful; but they now found that this was a complete mistake. Of the silver-platers and saw-makers, who had been formerly in employment, not one-fifth could now find work, and many of these only for a few days a week. The reaction then made it self felt upon the land. An informant wrote to him,
"These two trades are generally supplied by the sons of respectable families from country districts, well educated, and who give premiums with them. Of fifteen young men, who have just served their time, three are partially employed, four are upon the parish, and eight have returned to their parents or friends. Of fifty-one who have come of age in the last two years, only seven are partially employed—the rest are living either upon the parish or their friends. There are ten other trades still supporting their own poor, 1,000 families, averaging four in each, subsisting upon 1s; 3d.; per week per head."
Thus it was that the agriculturists, who had sought to engage in this species of trade, had been disappointed, and were driven back by wants which they had themselves excited to seek relief and support from their relations, or from their own parishes. With these facts before them, hon. Gentlemen would agree with him that the motion was for an inquiry into the gravest subjects which could be brought before the House. They had told the people of England—Mr. Pitt had told the people, that Parliament was omnipotent—that there was nothing that it could not do, and that when difficulties arose it was the duty of Parliament to remove them. Did modern Toryism abjure these principles? Unhappily they had the
610
power to do mischief, if not to do good. They had the power, as the people felt, of standing between them and the wages of their labour; they had the power to cripple the hopes, and the industry, of the country; they built a wall between the people and the food which they might obtain by the sweat of their brow, and they now refused to inquire into the consequences of their own acts. How could they wonder that the working classes should believe that Parliament was negligent of their interests, and that they could never have fair play until they were fairly and fully represented? When they saw that every advantage was taken of the differences of party feeling, and of political prejudices, to refuse them redress, they would still more firmly entertain this belief. The right hon. Gentleman opposite says that this is not the proper mode of gaining the object in view; and if the right hon. Gentleman meant that it would have been better for the noble Lord to have come forward with a definite proposition, he must say that he agreed with the right hon. Gentleman. He regretted that the noble Lord had not done so; for this was not a question, which ought to be allowed to go off upon vague professions of liberal views, or equally vague statements as to the intentions of her Majesty's Government. But this was a fault of which the Vice-president of the Board of Trade ought to be the last man in the House to complain. They had had plenty of ingenious arguments from the right hon. Gentleman; but if he made use of any expressions denoting a liberal view, he invariably looked round to assure his supporters that they must not be alarmed at them, for that practically they meant nothing; if he made a concession, it was always accompanied by some qualification to convince his friends that it would not be carried out. The right hon. Gentleman applied the term "temporary" last night to the Corn-laws.
Mr. W. Gladstonesaid, that he used the term generally, as applied to the Corn-laws and to all commercial laws.
Mr. Wardunderstood the right hon. Gentleman used the term merely as applied to the Corn-law of last year, and if he had mistaken him, he had done so in common with the hon. Gentleman who had just addressed the House, and who had thought it necessary to affix his own interpretation to the term. The language, however, of the right hon. Gentleman was altogether so diluted that even when he

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laid down a sound principle it was destroyed, or explained away, before he had done with it. No casuist in the world could have more ingeniously contrived to fritter away by explanation whatever appeared, at first, to be bold. Indeed, in every instance, the right hon. Gentleman, seemed alarmed at the admissions that he made. And when the right hon. Gentleman turned to those behind him, to explain what he had said, the right hon. Gentleman must have observed that the right hon. Baronet was still more alarmed than himself at the difficulties in which he had involved himself. The conduct of the right hon. Gentleman last night recalled to his recollection the observation of Lord Byron as to the meaning of the word "sublime." That noble poet said that he did not know what was meant by being sublime, and, on having a passage of his own pointed out to which the term was applied, and was asked for an explanation, replied that he did not himself understand the meaning of it. "I cannot say that I quite understand, my own meaning when I would be very fine." Such was the mode in which the right hon. Gentleman appeared to deal with the principles which he laid down; for, the moment he uttered a sound principle, he clogged it with so many reservations, and qualifications, that nobody could tell what it was really worth. The right hon. Gentleman had said elsewhere, if not there, that the first postulate to get rid of the present difficulties, and to remove the commercial distress, was the extension of the markets. As for the preference of a home over a foreign market, which some Gentlemen contended for, the right hon. Gentleman well knew that it was a perfect absurdity. He believed that the right hon. Gentleman fully appreciated the truth of this principle, and he dared to say, would not only admit, the truth of it at some future day, but that he would be prepared to act upon it. He had no doubt the right hon. Gentleman would say that the great object in commerce was to obtain, whenever they could be obtained, such articles as were required, by an exchange beneficial to both parties, that is to say, by such an exchange, as would re-produce on both sides something more than the cost of production; and that for this object you should go to those markets where these articles were produced at the cheapest rate. This was peculiarly applicable to an article of such general and necessary consumption as food. The right hon.
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Gentleman had said this most forcibly elsewhere, and he had no doubt that the time was not distant when he would make a similar avowal in that House. No doubt, however, many hon. Gentlemen opposite thought that the right hon. Gentleman had already mischief enough to answer for in what he expressed last last. The right hon. Gentleman last night observed that the reduction of the timber duties had been beneficial to the importer more than to the consumer, as the price of that article had not been materially lowered. The right hon. Gentleman, also, indirectly, referred to the commercial treaty with Russia. He did not deny that the treaty with Russia was a good treaty as far as it went. It was framed on the principle of carrying the produce of the two countries in the cheapest manner from the one to the other, but in the present state of things there was nothing to curry. At present the treaty was little better than so much waste paper. If the right hon. Gentleman had been prepared to propose the introduction of corn from Russia, they could then have seen the beneficial effects that were likely to follow from this treaty, and the advantages that would result from this change in the navigation laws, by allowing the ships of each state to be placed on a footing of reciprocity in the harbours of the other. But the treaty related merely to the machinery of the carrying trade, when there was in point of fact nothing to carry. He feared that, as regarded the United States, England had, by her absurd policy, built up a wall to exclude herself from any extensive commercial relations with that country. The right hon. Gentleman talked of the iniquity of the American tariff; but, under that tariff, the highest duties imposed were not above 30, or 40, per cent. He admitted that the American tariff was most absurd, and that it had been enacted on most mistaken principles; but still it was not more absurd or more objectionable than many of our own duties in this country. What was the case as regarded the corn of America? If the price of corn in many of the Western states of America were taken, and they were the great producing states for food, it would be found that the protective duty imposed by the Gorn-law or last year was upwards of 90 per cent. of the value. He was the more disposed to dwell upon this absurdity, because Sheffield was destroyed by the loss of the American trade. The right hon. Gentleman must be aware that the articles produced at Sheffield were of

613
a peculiar class, they were formerly most extensively exported to America. The trade of Sheffield existed in the same articles that were produced there ten years ago, but the manufacturers of that place had been cut up root and branch, in consequence of the interference of the Legislature with the trade with America. The right hon. Baronet must recollect the deputation that waited upon him last year from the Corn-law League, when one manufacturer connected with Sheffield stated that if the right hon. Baronet was prepared to propose a change of the Corn-laws at once, that he would, without the slightest delay, take 100 additional men on to work, for if the Corn-laws were got rid of or modified, he should be perfectly certain to find a market for every thing that he could produce. The very existence of Sheffield depended upon the course which the House should deem it expedient to take with regard to the Corn-laws; and when the hon. Member for Nottinghamshire said that he did not regard these laws as perpetual, but as of a nature which should not be changed within his own time, it must be clear that he and those who entertain the same opinions as himself, must be prepared not only to let the trade of Sheffield be destroyed, but the trade of many other places, which never could flourish until the Corn-laws were repealed. At present, much that was formerly an open trade was now closed to us, and the evil results from our bad policy were continually increasing. The chief impulse to every branch of trade was the maintenance of the labouring classes by a cheap price of food. He confessed that he should go into committee, if it were granted, with very definite views. He supposed that Gentlemen opposite would not let them have a committee, but the responsibility of that refusal would rest on them. It was not by vague expressions of sympathy that the grievances of the people could be got rid of, or that they could be satisfied, and still less by such accusations of violence and rioting as had been made by the hon. Member for Nottinghamshire. There was something odious in the charge which had been brought against those who had agitated for the repeal of the Corn -laws, of having been the occasion of the disturbances that occurred last year. It was more odious still to insinuate that the agitation of the question was connected with recent events which all must deeply deplore. Nothing could be more untrue;
614
but nevertheless, when whole classes had been driven to despair in consequence of the distress to which they had been reduced, this individual might well account for the acts of violence that had been committed It had been twice attempted in the course of this debate to connect the agitation for the repeal of the Corn-laws with the circumstance to which he had adverted, but it was most short-sighted to attribute to political feeling an act of sheer insanity, which every political party must condemn. The agitation for the repeal of the Corn-laws arose simply from a feeling that prevailed as to the injustice of these laws, and they might depend upon it that so long as that sense of injustice existed in the minds of large bodies of persons, there would be agitation; but although this might go on they need not fear violence from those who merely expressed their honest conviction as to the course to be pursued. Hitherto the people had not heard anything that could reasonably be expected to satisfy them from the leaders of that House; and practical men would not be content until they saw some prospect of the evils under which they suffered, being redressed. The intelligent classes knew that the continuance of protection for agriculture as it was called, had crippled every branch of our manufactures, and had shut us out from the trade of many of the most important markets in the world. The existence of the Corn-laws had driven the English manufacturers from Germany, and had given rise to an extensive combination in that country to exclude our produce; and if these laws were allowed to continue, they would most certainly be productive of the same results elsewhere. As to the hostile feeling which was said to pervade the American tariff, he believed that if the English Government and Legislature manifested a disposition to get rid of the Corn-laws, and thus throw themselves into the scale of that party in the United States which was opposed to the tariff, he had little, or rather no doubt whatever as to a successful exertion being made to get rid of it. The House might depend upon it that if this country gave up her Corn-laws, the United States would give up their tariff. This system of legislation in both cases had resulted from parties having a want of knowledge of their own interests, and it had been productive of mischief and illiberality in both instances. We had seen what had occurred in Germany in our own times, and with our own eyes, and similar

615
mischievous consequences as regarded the manufactures of this country were growing up in America, with a certainty of the same result. He entered his protest against this being treated as a party question. He did not care who were in office, for if any Government were prepared to act upon good and sound principles, he should give them his support. He had often differed from his friends near him when they were in office, and he should, under the same circumstances, do so again. But he protested against the notion of a change which was to be brought about only by the revolution of ages, or as the Vice-President of the Board of Trade had said, at some commercial millenium, the date of which no man could predict. He could not help feeling that such a suggestion was an insult to the working classes, whose condition so loudly claimed the attention of the House.
Mr. D'lsraelisaid, that the objection of he hon. Member for Sheffield against the isolated instance of prosperity, adduced in the case of Hartlepool, by his hon. Friend, the Member for Durham, was not very fair or very felicitous; for the hon. Member for Sheffield himself had argued throughout his whole speech from a particular instance, that of the town he represented. Moreover, it was the noble Lord who introduced the motion who had originated this style of argument, and his hon. Friend has only brought forward the instance of Hartlepool to explain and refute the case of Sunderland adduced by the noble Lord. The noble Lord had taken a "single captive," he had dwelt on the sufferings of Sunderland in minute detail, and as far as his general conclusions were founded on that particular instance, he (Mr. D'lsraeli) must say, that he thought the reply of his hon. Friend was not only fair and justifiable, but most appropriate and effective. It would, indeed, be an entire answer to the motion of the noble Lord, if that motion did not in fact, involve a much more comprehensive question, one which was not to be decided by any isolated case. He would not, on the present occasion, attempt to investigate the origin of the distress, the prevalence of which was now universally recognised. But he would observe, that that origin must be sought in no single cause, but in a complication of causes; some vast, some comparatively minute, but all, with a simultaneous action, even though unconnected together,
616
pressing on our industry in a manner perhaps unprecedented in the history of our commerce. He would address himself strictly to the question before the House, and he apprehended that to be the following:!"Is it possible or politic, by any sudden and extraordinary means to extend the commerce of this country as a remedy for the present distress?" That he inferred to be the real question from the somewhat desultory speech of the noble Lord; it was distinctly recognised as the real question by his right hon. Friend, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade. He must, in the first place, protest against the policy that would apply one remedy to every market which we possess, however varying and contrary in their character our markets might be. Our markets might fairly be divided under three general heads—our European markets; the markets of the East; and the markets of the New World. The respective principles on which commercial operations must be carried on in these markets were of a very distinct character. In Europe, we addressed ourselves to societies as ancient and as advanced as our own; scarcely less instructed and informed; where the sciences and the arts equally flourished; and where analogous manners had produced, in general, the same classified interests. In forming commercial connections with such states it was obvious that we could only proceed by Negotiation. Diplomacy stepped in to weigh and adjust contending interests, to obtain mutual advantages, and ascertain reciprocal equivalents. Our commerce with Europe could only be maintained and extended by treaties. The hon. Member for Dumfries, who was no admirer of treaties of commerce, had with some inconsistency enquired of the Government, why we had no commercial convention with Holland, which would have secured to us the trade with Java? He would tell that hon. Member, why we did not enjoy the Java trade. It was because at the Congress of Vienna our interests were entrusted to individuals who, like the hon. Gentleman the Member for Dumfries, had a great contempt for treaties of commerce. At that time everything was sacrificed for what was called political objects; and to create the kingdom of the Netherlands, to secure the union between Holland and Belgium, England relinquished Java to Holland without terms, and Holland

617
secured a monopoly of her Indian trade to the manufacturing industry of Belgium. But where was the kingdom of the Netherlands now? Belgium was deprived of the colonial trade of Holland, and England, which had lost the political barrier which she created at so much cost, remains deprived of the commerce which she sacrificed for that object. The right hon. Gentleman, the head of her Majesty's Government, had recognised during the last Session, the great importance of treaties of commerce with European states, and it was understood that her Majesty's Government had not been so successful as might be wished in their subsequent efforts to obtain them. What he (Mr. D'Israeli) wished to show was, that that want of success was not to be attributed to the fiscal regulations of this country, or to any anti-commercial spirit in neighbouring states. The first treaty which they had endeavoured to negotiate, was a treaty of commerce with France. It was well-known that those negotiations had advanced very far; nay, he believed, he might take the liberty of saying that they had even been concluded; that scarcely a month ago from the time he was now speaking, the day, and even the hour, for the signature of that treaty had actually been fixed. That treaty, if ratified and acted on, would have removed the distress of the town of Sheffield, which the hon. Member who had just sat down, had complained of. It would be interesting to know what had prevented that treaty from being laid on the Table of the House. He knew there were some hon. Members who would say that a French treaty of commerce was very easy to talk about, but that the French chamber would not support a Minister in carrying such a treaty into effect. He believed he was speaking with authority when he said, that in the present French Chamber there existed a majority, and no inconsiderable one, that was friendly, as far as commercial feeling was concerned, to a treaty of commerce between France and England. It became the House then to consider what was the cause that when the French Minister was prepared to sign such a treaty, and when a majority of the French Chamber were commercially inclined to support him, that our negotiations in this respect with France never arrived at a successful result; for, until the cause was
618
recognised and removed, the commercial relations between the two countries must remain in their present unsatisfactory state. But it was in the power of the House, whenever it chose, to come to a right understanding with the people of France, and if this were done, the Session would not end without such a treaty being concluded. There was a feeling among the French people much more general then we imagined, he might say a feeling profound and universal, that England had not deported herself with frankness and kindness towards France. He offered this not as his own opinion, for he felt persuaded, that as regarded the English as a nation, it was erroneous; but if so, it would well become that House to prove to the French people that it was founded in error. That nation remembered that ten years ago an English Ministry had announced to the world its connection with France as the firmest basis of its power and the proudest boast of its policy. That nation remembered that the same Ministry had, at a late period, adopted a policy in the teeth of these declarations by disturbing those feelings of intimate confidence which they had originally fostered. That nation recollected, that during the whole subsequent period, though the system of our foreign connections had undergone a complete and violent change, not a single discussion had taken place in that House which might have explained to the French people the cause of this sudden and contrary course of proceedings. If that House had only condescended to discuss the policy which they then blindly followed, they would probably not have encountered that prolonged spirit of misconception which was now exercising such a mischievous influence over two great nations, the foremost in civilization, bound together in reality by every political and social sympathy, and who possessed for the exchange of commerce facilities not equalled by any other countries in the world. He mentioned this, because the time had arrived to disembarass this question from the complications of diplomacy and the misrepresentations of the press. It was through the Parliaments of their respective countries that a frank explanation should take place between the English and French nations. And he felt persuaded that the moment this took place, all those

619
pretexts for misconception and bad feeling—rights of search, Barcelona interferences—would at once varnish, and one of the first results of this right feeling would be the establishment of stipulated relations of commerce between the two countries. A treaty of commerce between England and France would do more for the town of Sheffield than both the Americas. There was not a town in her Majesty's dominions which would receive such an instantaneous impulse to its trade as the town of Sheffield by such a treaty. Would the Bank at Sheffield have failed if such a treaty had been signed with France in 1840? The almost unlimited demand which would be created by such a treaty for the hardware and cutlery of Sheffield, would soon find tenants for the 3,400 empty houses which the hon. Member (Mr. Ward) had described. By the treaty of 1840, and he believed he had the best authority to say by the treaty which was negotiated at the end of last year, a market had also been secured for our broad cloth, for our pottery, and for our linens and linen yarns. Circumstances, not of a commercial character, had alone prevented this treaty from being carried into effect; and he had therefore a right to believe that it would ultimately be concluded. He should now call the attention of the House to the negotiations which had been opened by her Majesty's Government for another treaty of commerce with a country which was strictly not European, but which he classed under the head of European markets, because it possessed a character entirely distinct from the other states of the hemisphere in which it was placed. The dynasty was European; the commercial relations were of European tradition. He meant the Brazils. Both sides of the House agreed in the vast importance of renewing our treaty of commerce with the Brazils, on the eve of its expiration. Since Parliament was prorogued, her Majesty's Government had sent a special mission to Rio for that purpose. A special mission was at all times a delicate measure, and in general it was safest to invest a special mission with some purpose really different from that which it was sent to fulfil. The right hon. Baronet at the head of the Government had told us the other night, that negotiations in respect of this mission were going on. Now he (Mr. D'Israeli)
620
had reason to believe that these negotiations had never commenced, and therefore he supposed that the right hon. Gentleman had only availed himself of an expression of routine, the Brazilians, he believed, had assented, provious to the arrival of the special envoy, to an interpretation of the existing treaty, which conferred on it an additional duration of two years. They had done this unwillingly, but for the purpose of satisfactorily stopping the negotiations of the special envoy, by the declaration that having agreed, in deference to our views, to the continuation of the existing treaty, there was clearly no necessity to enter into the conditions of a future one. Knowing the great importance which was universally and justly attributed to the maintenance of our present commercial relations with the Brazils, and believing that at this moment their permanency was in extreme peril, he wished to show the House that these menacing circumstances had been occasioned, not by commercial jealousies, but by political inability and diplomatic neglect. In 1841, the Emperor of the Brazils attained his majority, and his coronation took place, and every state in Europe sent to Rio a special mission to congratulate his Majesty on the occasion except England. It appears, that for a considerable period there had been prolonged irritations between Downing-street and the Court of Rio, arising out of that unfortunate right of search; which, according to our neighbours, was only devised for our commercial purposes; but which, in reality, has in more than one instance, greatly contributed to the difficulties of our commercial diplomacy. We indicated our disposition by not sending a special envoy in 1841, and the omission was accepted as a most successful insult. But in 1842, a special mission from England reaches the Brazils; but for what purpose? Not to congratulate the Sovereign? Not to gratify the people, but to request a favour! Since the coronation of the Emperor, an opportunity has offered by which this ancient ire might have been healed. The marriage of the Emperor again summoned special missions from the European courts to Rio, and again none was missing except the representative of the Sovereign of England. It was well to recollect, that the Brazilians, with many excellent qualities, had still inherited from their ancestors that ostentation which was now per-

621
haps their national characteristic. He (Mr. D'lsraeli) had no doubt that if, on the occasion of the Emperor's marriage, some nobleman of high rank with a brilliant suite, had been sent from England to congratulate the Emperor and his subjects on the occasion, he would have found, as he was embarking for England on his return, a treaty of commerce with England in his pocket. For it was quite erroneous to, suppose these alterations of our sugar-duties, was a necessary preliminary of a treaty of commerce with the Brazils. Coffee was the staple in which the Brazilians were most interested. The province of Rio, for example, the most important in the empire, and politically the most influential produced no sugar. The object of these details was to show the House that treaties of commerce did not entirely depend on the regulations of tariff's, that in their negotiation, the same passions and influences, the same management and dexterity entered as in the negotiation of Other treaties, and generally in the business of life, and that our present position with respect to the Brazils, certainly not one of a very promising character, had been brought about by political and diplomatic misconduct. A contrary course of behaviour, they had a right to suppose, might yet produce a different result. The fear of wearying the House alone prevented him from entering into the causes which had prevented the treaty of commerce with Portugal from being satisfactorily concluded. He would only observe that it would not be difficult to shew that to the negligence and want of address of our own negotiators, the present embarrassed and complicated difficulties with that country, were to be attributed; and not to any fiscal or anti-commercial considerations. So it was with Spain. After all her restless interference, and meddling with every political movement of that country, England found herself as far off the promised treaty of commerce as five years ago; but it was this very interference which baulked our wishes. It had made us so odious with all classes of the Spanish people, an object of such general distrust and suspicion, that the very man whom we had in a great degree raised and uncompromisingly supported in his elevation, Espartero himself could not venture to propose commercial relations with a country, between which and Spain a trade
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of reciprocal advantage, and much more important at this moment to the Spaniards than to them might be carried on. Now here were four projected treaties of commerce, which he (Mr. D'lsraeli) believed a skilful statesman might still obtain, for in reality they were not prevented by any fiscal considerations or any anti-commercial prejudices, but solely by political circumstances. They were proofs that they might ameliorate the condition of the people by extending commerce by treaty. Some hon. Gentleman objected to commercial conventions. Why, the commerce of the world had been created by conventions—they were commercial treaties which first secured the persons and the property of merchants. What destroyed the droit d'aubaine but a commercial treaty? He (Mr. D'lsraeli) must say that he saw nothing in the state of the European markets to fill him with despair or even gloom. The noble Lord the Member for Tiverton, had told the House on a late occasion, that we must look for no extension of our commerce with Europe. He believed that no assertion could be more unauthorised, Why, the exchange between England and France at this moment was short of five millions. The negotiators of the late projected treaty were of opinion that that treaty would lead to an immediate exchange of 10,000,000 l; or 12,000,000 l. He firmly believed that British commerce with European nations would be greatly extended. In the advancement of the arts throughout Europe, he saw only a presage of the increase of our trade with it. Hon. Gentlemen were too apt to forget that an advance in the arts produces a corresponding increase in the wants and desires of nations. Hon. Gentlemen also were too apt to forget the amazing increase of population in Europe since the peace of Paris. 7,000,000 in France alone—in the centre of Europe 15,000,000. In this vast increase of a highly civilized population, he saw the continual elements of increasing commerce. So much for Europe! With respect to our Eastern markets, our intercourse with that division of the world must be carried on on a totally different principle to that which regulated our commerce with Europe. In the East, we addressed ourselves to a very an cient state of society; to vast and stationary populations, with tastes, and manners, and habits that never varied—with

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resources that never fluctuated, but in general inhabiting countries with which we were very imperfectly acquainted. Our trading intercourse with such communities must be conducted on the ancient principles of commerce. If we acted in Europe by negotiation, we could only penetrate the East by enterprise; any very immediate or vast impulse to our commerce from such markets was not to be expected. Our relations with such markets must be gradually formed, and fostered with great caution. They were the result of investigation, skilful observation, and prudent and exact dealings, But when we considered the immensity of the population the richness of the natural products, and the settled character of the civilization which prevailed in Asia, they were undoubtedly markets which must be ultimately productive of almost interminable profit. There were three great Eastern markets—the Levantine, the Indian, and the Chinese. In all of these we had a right to look to an increase of our trade. If we maintained that peace in the Levant, which need never have been disturbed, if it were true that that illustrious statesman Redschid Pacha had been again summoned to head the councils of the Porte, and had an opportunity to secure that improved administration of the provinces, and that development of the resources of Asia Minor which he had long contemplated and once commenced, we might count in future a progressive increase of our trade with Turkey. As regards India, the fortunes of our commerce were in our own hands. If we gave to India what she most wanted, and without which she must wither, that is a monetary system capable of representing the operations of her property and her trade, if we thus terminated that frightful system of usury which doomed great portions of the land to barrenness, our trade with India would double. With regard to China, they were on the threshold of a vast career of commerce which baffled the imagination as to the amount and the character of its operations. But when they remembered the extent, the civilization of that empire, its population, and the contiguous kingdoms and islands, it was impossible not to feel that a new feature in the commercial system of this country was developing itself of unparallelled magnitude and unprecedented interest. There remained the
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markets of the New World: by them he meant the markets of the United States, the Spanish American republics, and the Australian provinces. Here you found elements of a totally different and contrary character to the East. Scant but rapidly developing populations, a social system in constant fluctuation, wants and resources continually changing, an illimitable extent of unappropriated land perpetually and sometimes violently affecting all political order, and monetary schemes. It was not by the devices of diplomacy that you could regulate your trade with these crude societies; the most cautious enterprise, founded on the most guarded observation, might be baffled by multitudes continually appearing and disappearing with necessities and tastes influenced and modified by their constant action. Commerce, then, with such countries, must be an affair of speculation—of rapid profits—shattering losses—unnatural expansion—paralysing collapse. This was the secret of the present state of our markets in the United States and Australia. It was not our Tariff, not our Corn-laws, that induced the present stagnation, or prolonged it. Its occurrence was the inevitable law of the social circumstances of the New World, and those circumstances in their equally inevitable operation could alone remove it. Well then, if their trade in their old European markets was sustained; if new and extensive markets were opening to them in the East; if the check in their commerce with the New World was to be accounted for by causes of a severe but still transitory nature, was it not the wisest policy, in this mysterious pause in the industry of the country, a visitation to which all communities of commercial enterprise are periodically subject, was it not the wisest policy to bear up against the depression with patient courage, to gain time, and in the interval throw the burthen as much as possible on property instead of labour. He knew there were some who took a darker and more desponding view of the prospects of our commerce. But he had not yet listened to any facts which could induce him to adopt their conclusions. It was true, as had been asserted, that there were no gradual symptoms of progressive or approaching improvement. But, so it always was with commercial distress. Its dis-

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appearance was always sudden. It was like a long and desperate calm; a breeze suddenly arises when all are disheartened, and in a moment the character of the sky is changed. Every practical man will assure you of this. Improvement in trade is never gradual and it may be accounted for. The House had heard much of overtrading—but there was such a thing as under-trading. When the commercial world were alarmed they under-traded; and after a certain lime, a general and sudden demand arose. He believed the breeze would come. He thought it wisest to wait for it. He saw no other remedy. The noble Lord who introduced this motion said there must be a remedy "presently." Well, sign the treaty of commerce with France: that would give present relief. At any rate, present relief was not to be found in a committee of the whole House entering into an inquiry into the state of trade and commerce. Why, the inquiry would last as long as the trial of Warren Hastings! The proposition before the House was but a Jesuitical mode of satisfying their constituents. Who could not foresee the interminable adjournments of such an inquiry, and before a result was arrived that the commerce of the country must either revive or expire? It was, therefore, his intention most earnestly to vote against the motion of the noble Lord. He did not think that a remedy was to be found for commercial distress in noble Lords delivering lectures on political economy in the House of Commons. Neither Prime Ministers nor Parliaments would advance the public conviction of their utility and value by promulgating abstract principles in a practical assembly which had to deal with pressing circumstances. Gentlemen opposite were fond of assuring the House that the country was indebted to them for those more liberal principles of commercial intercourse which were generally received at the present day. But Gentlemen opposite were a little in error in this respect; those principles are of a much older date in this country than Gentlemen opposite may find it convenient to recollect. They were principles which had their Parliamentary origin at the period when we lost our American colonies. That, as everybody knew, was a period of gloom, darker even than the present; our commercial and trading interest had fallen to the lowest point of depression; and Mr.
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Pitt then announced the necessity of reconstructing our commercial system on principle of free intercourse and reciprocal advantage. The old prohibitions and monopolies that were the consequence of the colonial system were to be swept away. And who oppposed him? The Whigs. Mr. Fox declared that he would stand or fall by the Methuen treaty, and the Whigs to a man, Burke, Sheridan, Francis and Grey, came forth as the champions of the restrictive system. He (Mr. D'Israeli) wished that the speech of Mr. Pitt in 1787 on the commercial treaty with France were printed and circulated. He wished such a document were in the hands of Members, especially accompanied by the speech of the first Marquess of Lansdowne on the same subject, that brilliant and profound development of the doctrines on which the measures of the present administration depended. It was the French revolution that, after a few brief years of trial, arrested the beneficial progress of the commercial system of Mr. Pitt. But after the peace were the Government of the day, the Government of Lord Liverpool backward in recurring to those measures of commercial improvement first promoted by Mr. Pitt? By no means. On the contrary, they were in advance of their time. As early as 1817, not two years after the close of the great struggle. Mr. F. Robinson, then filling the post now occupied by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Newark, announced those doctrines in this House, and deplored their unpopularity. Those opinions were upheld on the same occasion by Mr. Charles Grant. They were officially and elaborately developed in the House of Lords in 1820, by the Earl of Liverpool, and announced as the basis of the future commercial system of this country. In pursuance of that official exposition, Mr. Wallace, a name too little mentioned, brought forward a variety of measures explained and vindicated in a variety of able speeches. Finally, on a late occasion, Mr. Huskisson set his seal to the system, upheld by all his Colleagues, among whom the right hon. Gentleman, the present head of her Majesty's Government was, though not then the most eminent, one of the heartiest adherents. And what prevented the full development of the commercial system of Lord Liverpool, a system founded on the principles of free trade? Why, the Re-

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form Bill! That sovereign measure of hon. Gentlemen opposite. It was the Reform Bill that had arrested the progress of commercial improvement in this country, as well as the improvement of so many other things. And now hon. Gentlemen opposite, when the true character of the domestic convulsion of 1830 is pretty generally appreciated, wearied with the struggles for provincial power, and in their attempt to govern an empire like a parish, having deranged the finances and disturbed the commerce of the country, now they come forward forsooth, and entreat the right hon. Gentleman to pursue the wise policy he was prosecuting before the fatal introduction of the Reform Bill, and promising him all their encouraging support. On the grounds, then, which he had stated, he should oppose the motion of the noble Lord. He would give an ample trial of the measures of the Government introduced last year. He supported those measures not from any blind submission to the Minister who introduced them, but because he approved of the principle on which the commercial system of the right hop. Gentleman was founded. The principle of the tariff of the right hon. Gentleman was a fair protection to native industry—a principle, in his opinion, perfectly consistent with a large and liberal commercial intercourse. As regards the present Corn-law, we know as yet but little of that law. He was not prepared to stand or fall by the details of that measure—nor was he, for one, surprised that the right hon. Gentleman declined to do so. He (Mr. D'Israeli) would, with respect to that law, reserve to himself the most unbounded license. He would not rest his character or political constituency, on a fixed duty or a sliding-scale. But he would support that system which, to use the expressions of the noble Lord opposite, the Member for London, maintained the preponderance of the landed interest. He believed that preponderance to be essential to the welfare of the country; he attributed to that preponderance the stability of our institutions. He upheld that preponderance not for the advantage of a class, but for the benefit of the nation. He did not believe in the commercial decline of this country. On the contrary, he held that we had not yet arrived at the meridian splendour of our commercial fortunes. But he never would seek a remedy for one class in the ruin of
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another. He would venture, with respect to this controversy, to remind the House of the words of a great prince, appropriate to the occasion, for they were not only the words of a great prince, but also of a great merchant. He meant that Doge of Venice, who, looking out from the windows of his Adriatic palace on the commerce of the world, then anchored in the lagunes beneath, exclaimed, ''This Venice, without terra firma, is but an eagle with one wing!" He (Mr. D'Israeli) said, the same of England. He wished to see our national prosperity upheld alike by a skilful agriculture and an extended commerce.
Mr. Ross: Sir, I have many good reasons for wishing to sit a silent listener to the end of this debate. But as I perceive no one from my side of the channel has yet risen, and as I know that the deep and painful interest excited through all parts of the country is no where more keenly felt than in that great, and till lately thriving and advancing community which I have the honour to represent, I consider it my duty to request the attention of the House. I know I have cast away one of my best chances of obtaining a favourable hearing by the few words extorted from me on Saturday. Perhaps, however, the House will be so generous as to let those few words go for nothing; and in return for the indulgence I bespeak at its hands, I promise not to tax its patience unreasonably. Sir, I consider the motion of the noble Lord proper and necessary. Objections have been raised against its form as quite too vague and indefinite. I apprehend the noble Lord would find it impossible so to shape his motion as to make it acceptable to Gentlemen opposite. If instead of a general demand for enquiry he had put forward a series of remedial propositions, then hon. Gentlemen would have warned the House against the dangers of embarking in such a wide sea of troubles. I wish I could agree with the hon. Member for Shrewsbury in thinking that this country is likely to attain to a greater height of commercial prosperity than it has yet reached; I am sure that if we persevere in our present system his predictions will not be verified. The same hon. Gentleman claims for himself and his friends the credit of free-trade principles, and charges us with obstructing the progress of their enlightened principles. Nay, he traces all this mischievous opposition to the Reform Bill. Now I grant the Re-

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form Bill was the means of abolishing a certain sort of free-trade—I mean the free-trade in rotten boroughs. [[Hear.] But why does not the hon. Gentleman specify the particular boroughs which, created by the Reform Bill, have been characterised by hostility to the doctrines in question; and why does he not point to the particular men on these benches open to his rebuke, and say, you,—and you,—and you,—on such and such occasions, spoke and voted against the extension of commercial freedom. I shall not dispute about the origination of sound opinions on the subject, but the fact is indisputable, that of late years we Liberals, in books, pamphlets, reviews, and newspapers, have stood forth as the champions of these doctrines, and you as their assailants. Surely hon. Gentlemen did not always think so meanly of those who sit on this side of the House. A report has reached my ears that an hon. Gentleman—shall not name him—did on a certain occasion apply to an hon. Friend of mine sitting near me, for a recommendation to some radical borough. [Laughter.] At that time, of course, he thought liberal principles were the principles of free-trade. That this once flourishing country is in a state of decline alarmingly rapid; that the advances towards a more liberal and enlightened policy made in the last Session of Parliament by the right hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government have been insufficient to check the progress from bad to worse, or to mitigate in any appreciable degree the sufferings, of the people, are truths admitted by parties who agree in nothing else, and not denied even by her Majesty's Ministers and their supporters; while all on this side of the House without exception, and a few on the opposite benches, attribute the disease which is consuming our strength, in no small degree to the various systems of Corn-laws which have succeeded each other. From these admissions, I infer either that a further change is necessary, or that our case is hopeless. The latter is a supposition I cannot admit. I therefore urge the necessity of a further advance. It is idle to talk of allowing time for the development of the good effects of the recent enactment. From what has passed, we may clearly see what will come to pass. The essential inefficacy of the new-modelled sliding-scale stands proved. It was to have opened the ports to supplies of grain—they remained during the season of severest want
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practically closed; it was designed to make foreign nations interested in lowering their duties on our goods—they found no solid ground on which to base an expectation of an advantageous trade in corn, and their tariffs became more decidedly hostile than ever. We hoped to see the dealer in corn placed in the same rank with other traders in point of security; the utmost that has been gained is that the gambler in grain gambles a little less desperately now than heretofore. Something then must be done and that speedily. It is to be hoped that the representatives of the Commons will not avert their eyes from the miserable spectacle of a struggling but sinking people, nor close their ears against their cry for relief—nor stop short of measures from which relief may reasonably be expected. Let us not ostrich-like stick our heads into a bush in hope that the calamity which is at our heels will pass by. Rather let us boldly confront the danger. Let all personal feelings and all pitiful party squabbles be flung to the winds. Let the House of Commons try whether it cannot furnish forth a sufficiency of wisdom and patriotism to search out the causes of national decay, and supply a prompt and efficacious remedy, and by this solid service wipe out the stain of its ignoble origin. These remarks may possibly seem to some hon. Gentleman a strange introduction to the avowal I am obliged to make—that while I trace much of our distresses to the operation of the Corn-laws, I cannot see my way to their total, immediate, and unconditional repeal. For I think there is another scheme of relief calculated to ensure all the advantages I have just glanced at; abundant and timely supplies; moderate and steady prices; encouragement to interchange products; safe and regular trade in corn; less hazardous than another sweeping proposal, and more practicable. I will boldly state my opinion, though I believe it will meet with opposition on both sides of the House. It seems to me best for all classes that a fixed duty, say of 8s. should be laid on, subject to a gradual diminution, at the rate of 1s;. per annum, till it should be finally extinguished, or stop at a low rate for the purpose of registration. Such is the plan which I approve of, and I am able to state that it would perfectly satisfy the great body of my constituents. Sir, I exceedingly lament the decision of the right hon. Baronet. I did participate in the general expectation that last year's change would prove introductory to fur-

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ther changes. When last Session he announced his famous tariff, and broached sound doctrines of commercial policy, a flash of surprise and joy lightened up the nation. But nothing in the way of change would now create surprise. The people have become accustomed to political miracles—they have beheld a prodigy—fruits of liberality—not very abundant indeed, but few and good in kind—growing where no one ever dreamed of seeing them grow—on that old Tory stock, which nothing but the skill of the right hon. Baronet, could have saved from being rooted up, and cast aside as worthless. He tried a bold experiment, which, in his dexterous hands, succeeded. The graft hit: the stock was saved for a further trial:—
"Exiit ad cœlum ramis felicibus arbos, Miraturque novas frondes et non sua poma."
I am aware there are Gentlemen on these benches whom nothing short of a total and unconditional repeal can satisfy; not because they deny the possibility of an advantageous adjustment, but because they hold the imposition of the smallest tax on bread—the staff of life—to be contrary to the immutable principles of morality. I honor those Gentlemen, particularly such of them as depend altogether on land; but I confess the notion seems to me to savour a little of extravagance. Upon such grounds it must be held immoral to lay any tax whatsoever on timber, glass, coal, cotton, flax, wood, leather—since clothing and shelter, light and warmth, are necessaries of life, as well as bread; and yet no one ever heard of the immorality—whatever might be said of the inexpediency of taxing any of these articles. But I will tell you what I hold to be immoral. By one and the same legislative provision to raise the price of the necessaries of life, and to diminish or take away the power of earning them. Laws which condemn large bodies of men to inactivity and ruin, or which interfere between the labourer and his reward—are pernicious—are immoral. Man's lot is for the most part toil—to toil he was originally condemned. But as it has been truly and beautifully said—
ߞ"The primal curse Was softened into mercy, made the pledge Of cheerful days and nights without a groan."
Thus in the bosom of that sentence there was blessing. Are the days of our labourers cheerful? Are their cares forgotten in tranquil sleep? I fear the rising sun darts no cheerfulness into their miser-
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able habitation. I fear you are chargeable with many of the sufferings they are doomed to endure. To such as do not consider the question of morality a flat bar to further inquiry, I would briefly suggest one or two arguments in favour of that scheme which commends itself to my judgment. It has been expected on one side, and vehemently denied on the other, that the landed interest is charged with a heavier burden of taxation than any other. Nor is the plea urged by monopolists only—it has the sanction of such men as Mr. M'Culloch and Lord Brougham—I venture no opinion—I only say, if the fact be so the balance should be adjusted by means of a fixed duty equivalent to the difference, or by a revision of taxation preliminary to repeal. In any case, prudence would suggest the propriety of some delay, in order to afford opportunity to the holder of land, to encounter the difficulties of a new position, by manufacturing his land to the greatest advantage, and compensating by increased production for that fall in prices which is the object aimed at. Grant this opportunity, and I make no doubt, of the ability of the agriculturist under the stimulus of necessity so to avail himself of the treasures of science, as to develop the resources of agriculture and maintain his position in the social scale. I do believe these islands are capable of supplying food for the actual population. In my opinion, the agriculturist fears, and the manufacturer hopes, too much. The first under the condition specified—between the tendency of late discoveries to diminish the cost of production—the increase of that production and the diminution of the price of commodities—will be able to sell at a far lower rate than has ever prevailed without loss. As to the manufacturer, the immediate effect of the full development of home agricultural resources will be to check in some measure, the foreign trade in corn; but he will always have moderate and steady prices. But if time be not allowed—and let it be borne in mind that all improvements in this department of industry are necessarily slow—a host of evil consequences which I must not now dwell upon, will assuredly follow. Happy would he be if this discussion could be freed from the heats and animosity which the eagerness of disputants is apt to engender. The lord of the soil is not, in general, the hard-hearted, grasping, unsympathising being his opponent represents him—nor is the manufacturer the sordid,

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selfish, tyrannical master of a squalid, dissolute, disaffective gang which some have been pleased to paint him. Wrong has been done on both sides, but the most grievous wrong to the manufacturer. I wish I could engage some of those gentlemen whose hearts are filled with the bitterest prejudice, as my companions in a visit to the mills with their surrounding cottages and schoolhouses in Belfast and its vicinity, and draw their attention to the provision made by the owners for the accommodation, health, and education, aye, and the comfort and amusement of the people in their employ. I could point to regulations for providing the luxury of a bath—I could lead my companion through slips of garden-ground into trim cottages, where he would find a few books, flowers, shrubs, perhaps a musical instrument; I could show him the beautiful picture of Burn's Cotter Saturday Night, transferred to the humble dwelling of a mill-labourers family. But this was the result of a prosperity which is rapidly passing away—all is hollow and insecure—trade languishing—markets failing. What can the proprietor do? the sentence must go forth, there is nothing else for it. Picture to yourself, Sir, the effect on such a family circle as I have attempted to describe of these terrible words, "half work," words synonimous with half comfort, half living, half every thing that makes life desirable. What consternation!—what dismal forebodings. How many images of terror and desolation crowd upon the mothers heart, while she casts a hurried glance round their little apartment in search of some piece of furniture which may best be spared—or runs over in her mind the fate of other families, predecessors in misfortune, whose sons have been scattered, whose daughters, once happy and innocent as her own child, have found their way through the paths of guilt and wretchedness to an early grave. Sir, I am thankful to the House for listening so patiently to my somewhat confused address. Perhaps it would be here more prudent in me to have waited till I had become accustomed to an atmosphere which few can breathe at first without feeling their heads a little turned.
Dr. Bowring: I move the adjournment of this debate.
Mr. B. Hoperose, and spoke amidst cries of "Adjourn," and "Go on," but little of what the hon. Member said was heard in the Gallery. A more unnecessary or futile motion he said than that made by
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the noble Lord had never been proposed to Parliament. He deprecated the interminable discussion of that everlasting question, the Corn-laws. That was the subject that appeared to exercise a predominating influence over the minds of certain hon. Members who had spoken during the course of that debate, and they had not grappled with the legitimate question before the House, viz., the distress of the country. He thought, that that distress was principally to be traced to overpopulation and over-luxury. The system pursued in our large manufacturing districts had tended to make human beings human machines. It was his intention to oppose the motion of the noble Lord.
Debate adjourned.
House adjourned a few minutes after twelve o'clock.

MINUTES.
BILL.Private.—2a Samwell's Name.
PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Lord Willoughby D'Eresby, from Cerrigdruidion, Saint Germans, and Pentrevoelas, from the united Parishes of Trefriw, and Llanrhychwyn, and from Landowners of Caer-hûn, for Repeal of 6 and 7 Will. 4th, c. 77, so far as concerns the Union of the Sees of Bangor and St. Asaph.

CHINA—THANKS TO THE ARMY AND NAVY.
The Duke of Wellington: In pursuance of the notice which I gave to your Lordships on the first day of the Session, I proceed now to ask your Lordships to express your approbation of the services of her Majesty's fleet and army employed in the late operations in China. I am perfectly sensible of the importance of the duty which I call upon your Lordships to perform. Her Majesty has been pleased to declare her approbation of the services of her fleet and army: her Majesty has distinguished both services by marks of her gracious favour, and has adopted other measures to signify her approbation of them; and my proposition is, that your Lordships taking into consideration the nature of the services performed by the fleet and army—taking into consideration their value and importance at the moment at which they were rendered—should support her Majesty in the applause which she has expressed; and by pursuing that course your Lord ships will, I trust, excite and stimulate others of our countrymen, in all future times, to emulate those whose services I am about to bring under your consideration. In performing the duty that devolves upon me on this occasion, I shall carefully avoid adverting to any topic, or alluding to any subject, which can give rise to any feeling but that which I am desirous should exist among your Lordships—namely, admiration of the services which I am about to detail to you. It will be necessary for me to advert to certain historical facts, in order to render clear the exposition of the services of the fleet and army which I am about to make to you; but I shall advert to them only as facts, having no intention to blame anything—and, indeed, there is no reason that I know of to blame anything. Certain it is that I
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have no intention to blame anything that has passed; and, as I have already said, I shall refer to what has passed merely as historical facts, to render clear what I am about to address to your Lordships on the subject of the services performed by her Majesty's navy and army. Your Lordships are aware that in 1839, after a discussion upon the events which had taken place in China, war was declared with that country, and orders were given to blockade the Chinese ports, and carry on certain other hostile proceedings against that empire. Those measures were carried into execution as early as the month of June, 1839. At that period Canton was blockaded, and hostilities were further prosecuted by the capture of the island of Chusan. The fort of Amoy, also, was blockaded, and certain operations were carried on in that harbour by a small detachment of the fleet under Admiral Elliot, who was in his own ship, and who afterwards joined the rest of the fleet and the army at Chusan. In a short time the admiral, according to the instructions which he had received to act as joint plenipotentiary with Captain Elliot, proceeded to Pa, on the Pei-ho, which he reconnoitred; and, having communicated with the Chinese authorities at Tien-ling, on the river Pei-ho, commenced there negotiations for peace. The negotiations thus commenced were subsequently continued at Chusan. Negotiations for a cessation of hostilities were also carried on at Ningpo; but subsequently the negotiations for a treaty of peace were removed from the northern part of China—from the Pei-ho, Chusan, and Ningpo, to Canton. On arriving at Canton, the Chinese commissioner appeared to be not so willing as before to conclude a treaty of peace: the admiral being, unfortunately, taken ill, was rendered incapable of remaining longer on service, and quitted the station. The command of the fleet then devolved upon Sir Gordon Bremer, who carried on the naval operations, whilst the negotiations continued to be conducted by Captain Elliot. From various circumstances, it was discovered that the Chinese were not serious in the desire of making peace on the terms proposed and required by her Majesty's plenipotentiary, and in the course of the communications and discussions which took place, a British vessel was fired into from a fort which ought not to have been occupied; and it was subse-

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quently discovered that the whole of the forts on the Canton river, which it had been previously settled were not to be occupied, were armed and occupied. The negotiations were continued, but they certainly did not make much progress: different periods were fixed, at which communications were to be held and answers received; but no communications were had, and no answers were received, and at length it was found to be absolutely necessary to suspend negotiations and recommence hostilities. Accordingly the commodore, the commanding officer of the fleet, immediately determined to attack the forts in Canton river, particularly those which protected the entrance to Whampoa. Among other promises made by the Chinese, and not performed, was one for the opening of trade at a particular period. In the mean time large bodies of troops were being collected, and it was found that Tartar generals and Tartar commissioners were coming down for the ostensible purpose of treating for peace, but for the real purpose of war. Under these circumstances the commodore determined immediately to attack the forts on the Canton river, and to obtain possession of them. He did so. He consulted with the military commanding officer on the spot respecting the assistance to be afforded by the army, and by the cordial co-operation of the two services, of which many examples were afterwards given in the prosecution of the war, the army being landed on the flank or rear of the works attacked in front by the fleet, and by the accurate posting of every vessel of the fleet, all the forts were carried almost without loss, the army having entered the forts by the rear at the same time that the navy carried them in front. It is from this operation I propose to date the accounts to which I shall call your Lordships' attention. I do not mean to say that the operations to which I have already adverted—namely, the attack on Chusan, the blockade of Amoy, and the attack upon the vessels in that harbour, were not all highly meritorious; but there is this distinction between them and the operations subsequently carried on—namely, that they took place during a time when negotiations were pending. In what I am about to address to your Lordships I shall, therefore, confine myself to the operations which took place after the breaking off of negotiations in the month of January,
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1841. The capture of the forts made an impression on the Chinese negotiators, and they again desired to commence negotiations, Under the treaty of peace which had previously been concluded, her Majesty was to obtain possession of the island of Hong Kong, and it was deemed expedient still to insist upon that, although the treaty had not been actually signed. The commissioner on the part of her Majesty having desired the admiral to take possession of Hong Kong, he entered into an agreement, that in case the island were given up, the forts which had been taken should be restored to the Chinese. Still the negotiations did not advance. The Chinese commissioner never actually met the plenipotentiary of her Majesty to sign conjointly the treaty of peace. It was known that a large Tartar army was assembling at Canton; and in this state of things it was considered necessary to recommence hostilities, to attack all the forts and batteries, and to take possession of Canton. A suspension of hostilities was again agreed upon, in consequence of the Chinese undertaking to pay a sum of money as ransom for Canton. Thus affairs stood at that time. The treaty which had been agreed upon was considered as concluded; that is to say, it was really signed; but I do not believe that any of the conditions were carried into execution, except that which related to the occupation of Hong Kong by the Queen's troops, and certain of the forte by the Chinese troops, upon condition that they should not again be armed. Things remained in this state until towards the 20th of May, at which period large bodies of Chinese troops continued to assemble in the neighbourhood of Canton, and threats were held out of an intention to recommence hostilities. It was also ascertained that some of the batteries and towers on the river had been armed, in contravention of the arrangement entered into, and that attacks had been made upon her Majesty's vessels and British merchant vessels by five boats, from which the British vessels were protected by the activity of some small craft attached to the fleet. At this time Sir Hugh Gough joined the army, and the commodore and he having reconnoitred the coast of the river, and the disposition of the Chinese army on the heights beyond Canton, determined on a plan of joint attack, which was carried into execution in a manner worthy of your

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Lordships' approbation. The position of the enemy was well examined and ascertained, and a plan was formed for a conjoint attack on the several fortified posts on the river by the fleet, and upon the position of the enemy on the heights beyond Canton by the army. The army was landed at the place appointed for the commencement of its operations, whence they advanced and attacked the formidable position of the enemy, defended by the works of the town, and by a large number of Tartar troops, besides the garrison of the town, in a camp upon the heights. Here commenced a series of operations which were really quite surprising, and of which I believe there is no example in the military and naval history of (his country or any other. Our fleet and army have been manœvring on the rivers and coasts of China, and defending themselves against large bodies of the enemy in the field; and at the same time attacking fortified positions, some of which were deserving the name of citadels, and they have performed these manœuvres with the utmost facility and with uniform success; and they have done this, my Lords, how? By the activity, energy, and zeal of the officers, petty officers, and seamen of the navy, in marking out the spots at which the large ships were to take their station with a view to the operations to be carried on, and to enable the admiral and the general to combine these operations. We have seen the fleet attacking strong forts, built of masonry, and well provided with ordnance, whilst the army, being lauded at a spot previously agreed upon, has assisted the fleet in its operations, and the success of their combined efforts has been uniform, and, I must say, wonderful. The attack upon Canton was the first instance of these operations being carried on upon a large scale, in front of a force superior to ours. Our troops would have entered into Canton if it had not been thought expedient to suspend hostilities upon condition of receiving another ransom, and to protect the town from the consequences of being stormed at that moment. As I said before, I have no blame to bestow upon that proceeding. The troops then embarked, and took up a position again at Hong Kong. I have gone a little into detail with respect to these operations, because they were the first of a series of similar operations which were carried on with the cordial understanding and co-
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operation of the two gallant officers, Si Hugh Gough and Sir H. Senhouse Shortly after the performance of this feat, the fleet sailed from Hong Kong, and the first operation which they undertook was the attack upon Amoy. They proceeded then, and examined the port, and having found that the island of Koo-lang-soo formed one side of it, the admiral and general, in the manner before pointed out, having well considered the position of the enemy, and the nature of the works to be attacked, and the position of the troops opposed to them, agreed that the troops should be landed at Koo-lang-soo, and should proceed, some of them to attack the works on that island, and others to attack those in the neighbourhood of the town of Amoy. My Lords, the ground was sounded, the danger exactly ascertained, and here, again, our forces performed one of those manœuvres which I have endeavoured to describe to your Lordships. The general immediately got possession of the island of Koo-lang-soo, and forthwith directed his attention to the support of the position which the fleet took up at Amoy; and they were successful, as they had been before, and as they have since been in many other cases. They occupied the island of Koo-lang-soo, left there a garrison, and sailed for Chusan. At Chusan they found the works vastly increased and improved since their previous occupation in the preceding year. Indeed, it is curious enough that the Chinese had carried into execution some of the measures which the British engineers had proposed to adopt in the preceding year, in order to strengthen the island of Chusan, then in their possession. Notwithstanding the strength of these works, and the increased strength of their position, afforded by enormous batteries of masonry, the operations of the fleet and army, by the adoption of the same system, had the same result. The troops were landed in the position agreed on by general and admiral, the ships took up their stations opposite particular parts of the works, and the attack succeeded in a most extraordinarily short space of time. In short, my Lords, this just shows what a fleet and army can do when united, and acting cordially in support of each other, under officers who think they best perform their duties in considering the whole operations to be carried into effect—the situations which each force should occupy during those

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operations, and taking care that the intended plans should be put in execution by the troops exactly as they were first intended. This it was that was done, and, as usual, the place fell into their possession. From Chusan they went to attack the forts and arsenal on the left of the Ningpo-river, and they found them situated on a height, being fully garrisoned, in the highest state of order and preservation, being one of the principal arsenals of the country. There was a large body of troops on the other side of this fortified position, destined to co-operate in its defence; and yet, my Lords, of this position our forces got possession as easily as they did of Koo-lang-soo, Amoy, and Chusan. If you will give me leave, I shall dwell for a moment on the really curious circumstances under which the arsenal of Chinhai was attacked. The enemy had an army stronger than ours, in a position to assist the garrison, and destined ultimately to protect Ningpo. The general and admiral carried on concerted operations. They agreed to land the army on the right of the river, while the fort was attacked by the navy in its sea front. And it is a strange circumstance attending this attack, that in order to ascertain exactly the danger of the topographical situations in which the operations should be carried on, the ship which made the greatest attack on the citadel, anchored in water scarcely deeper than would float her. My Lords, the general attacked with the troops, and carried everything before him, the fortified outworks and the garrison within, and he was soon enabled to assist the force which was attacking it from the sea. The admiral stormed the citadel, and the ships' crews, as soon as the breaches were made, saw on the other side those who were proceeding to their support, and in an astonishingly short space of time this citadel, notwithstanding two or three explosions, which took place by accident while the operations were going on, was in possession of the fleet and army. The troops were embarked, and sent up to the great city of Ningpo, into which they entered without opposition. Now, here was another instance of the advantage derived from the co-operation of the fleet and the army. The army was aided by the steamers and smaller vessels in their attack on the enemy's troops, while, on the other hand, the troops aided the navy in their attack on the citadel as soon as the breach was
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made. My Lords, some disturbances took place after obtaining the occupation of Ningpo. Noiwithstanding that the troops conducted themselves greatly to the satisfaction of the inhabitants. It appeared that the people of this large town, thought it might be practicable to get the better of them, and the soldiers from the Chinese army, encamped at no great distance, found their way into the town in disguise, having, perhaps, heard of similar proceedings in this part of the world. On the 9th or 10th of March an attack was made not only on the town of Ningpo, but on the citadel. I am happy to say, however, that attempt completely failed, and I have observed, with the greatest satisfaction, the measures which were adopted to bring about its failure. I can't avoid expressing my admiration of the activity and energy of the officers who adopted those measures with entire success—particularly of the subaltern and those of the next rank. They manifested discretion, firmness, and courage under the circumstances in which they were placed, and frustrated all the attacks which were made; so that before morning the place was as securely in then-possession as it had been the previous night. The enemy retired, and took refuge in the country some miles above Ningpo. And thither the general, in concert with the admiral, thought proper to follow them, with a view of making an attack. My Lords, they did attack them. The general, by his courage and that of his troops, aided by the seamen and marines, carried a most formidable fortified position against the best Tartar troops of the empire, and in that attack his gallant brother in arms, the admiral, at the head of his seamen and marines, charged in support of the troops into the enemy's camp, which they took possession of and occupied that night. This is another and a most remarkable instance of the cordial co-operation between the two commanders and the two services—a co-operation which must insure, on every similar occasion, the success which attended those operations. My Lords, there can be no doubt that the operations of this war were exceedingly difficult. Little was known of China except its enormous population, its great extent, and its immense resources; but we knew nothing of the social life of that country; we knew nothing more of its communications than a scanty acquaintance with its

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rivers and canals, and whether their roads ran along rivers, or in any other way, nobody in this country could give any information, nor could any be acquired. We felt, as everybody must have felt, that it was absolutely necessary, after so many years of negotiation, to carry the war into the heart of the country, in order to make an impression on a people who had manifested so little disposition to render justice, and to come to reasonable terms of peace. The question was as to the mode of doing it; and considering the complete ignorance which we and all mankind were in, with respect to the communications of the country—the difficulties, natural and artificial, which we had to contend with; besides the immense distance from our country at which the operations must be carried on—we naturally look to the results; and, I must say, there is no individual, however sanguine, who could have expected such success as has been produced by the cordial co-operation of the admiral commanding the fleet, and the general commanding the army, and (following their example) of the officers and men in both services. My Lords, as I said it was determined to carry the war into the heart of the country, it having been confined, up to the period I have alluded to, to the coasts and islands. The first attack was made on the city of Chapoo. This was supposed to be a place of great importance. The commanders co operated in precisely the same manner as they had hitherto done; they carried on conjoint operations after previous examination; and after having ascertained the difficulties they had to overcome, they provided for the occasion, ascertaining the depth of the water and all the other circumstances calculated to ensure success. The place, like the others, was taken by the army attacking in the rear and by the fleet in front, supported by the small craft and steamers. Having carried this place, they turned their attention to operations on the Wosung. This is a river which falls into the Yang-tse-keang, on the right bank, and it appears to run nearly parallel to a canal, rather tending towards a coast than otherwise. The general having at this time been joined (through means of the fleet) by artillery and horses, sent from India by the Governor of Fort St. George, landed some men near the river Yang-tse-keang, who marched across it and attacked one of the forts, while an-
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other attack was made in front. The forts on the Wosung were carried by operations similar to those I have already described. The fleet and army having been posted exactly in the places fixed upon, pursued the course pointed out for each, provision being made for the due performance of the duty allotted to each. All these attacks succeeded as the others had done before them, and the forces, having thus gained a position in the forts of Wosung, were enabled to enter the Yang-tse-keang, and to proceed in a body up that great river, for the purpose of carrying on operations at the point fixed upon—namely, at the junction of the great Imperial Canal with the Yang-tse-keang. After considerable difficulty and some loss, this position was carried, as the others had been, by the joint operations of the two services. The Tartar troops were completely subdued, and this place came into the possession of her Majesty's troops. The general and admiral then determined to pursue their success by proceeding to Nanking, and to carry on operations in the same manner against that place, should they not prevail upon the enemy to come to terms of peace. Accordingly, they proceeded up the river and examined the localities as usual, with the view to attack. By this time our mode of proceeding was known by the enemy, and they soon perceived what our forces were about. However, our commanders made like preparations to the preceding, and landed the troops, so as to be enabled to make an attack. The enemy then surrendered, and offered to agree to the proposed terms of peace. My Lords, this peace was signed, and has been confirmed, and although it has not been formally ratified, and therefore not laid before your Lord ships, it is already made known to the public. My Lords, considering the energy, ability, prudence, and fortitude with which those operations were carried on, their uniform success, and the honour which resulted to her Majesty's army, the advantages which must accrue to the country from this early peace, and the probably greater advantage which must result from our future commercial intercourse being placed on a better footing with this great empire, I do hope your Lordships will agree unanimously to the vote of thanks I mean to submit to you. My Lords, I have the satisfaction of being able to add to this statement that I have every reason to believe that those engaged in this ser-

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vice displayed uncommon proofs of discipline and good order—I mean, of course, both fleet and army. I have read several accounts of the sobriety which they observed, avoiding that great temptation in war the use of spirituous liquors, and I have heard and read with great satisfaction that they treated their enemies on all occasions with the utmost humanity, so much so, that I understand the feeling in China was "these barbarians (as they called us) are our best friends, and we cannot look upon them as enemies." My Lords, it is under these circumstances that, considering the difficulty of these operations, their uniform success, and the small loss which accrued, I trust I shall draw from you an unanimous expression of approbation. They whose names I shall have the honour to propose to you, according to the usual practice, are the admiral and general who commanded, the general who served under the former, but not to the admiral in a similar position, as there was no admiral under the command of Admiral Parker. There was another admiral connected with the fleet, Sir T. Cochrane. He was, at the time of these operations, at the mouth of the Canton river, and frequently expressed a wish to be engaged in more active operations, but the admiral found himself under the necessity of detaining him in what he conceived an important position. Under these circumstances I regret I cannot, according to the usual practice, insert Sir T. Cochrane's name in this vote of thanks. I should have been happy, had it been the practice, to have mentioned all the names of the gallant officers of the other ranks who distinguished themselves in the course of these operations. But, my Lords, the Gazette contains them, and I entreat you to read them, as well as to examine those operations with attention. They are worthy of the especial attention of professional men; but all men who read them will see what these forces have done, the difficulties which they have undergone, and the services which they have rendered their country. I find, my Lords, that it was not Admiral Parker who carried on the operations at Canton, but Sir H. Senhouse, an officer who rendered great and distinguished service, but unfortunately died, like many others, from the exhaustion which he suffered by reason of the labours he went through in the course of the day. The noble Duke then read the following vote of thanks:—
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"That the thanks of this House be given to Lieutenant-General Sir Hugh Gough, G.C.B., Vice-Admiral Sir W. Parker, G.C.B., and Commodore Sir Gordon Bremer, K.C.B.; for the distinguished skill, intrepidity, and indefatigable zeal with which they have conducted the combined operations of her Majesty's naval and military forces on the coasts and on the inland waters of China; whereby a series of brilliant and unvaried successes has been concluded by an honourable peace on the terms proposed by her Majesty.
"That the thanks of this House be given to Major-General Lord Saltoun, K.C.B. Major-General George Burrell, C.B., Major-General Sir Robert Bartley, K.C.B, Major-General Sir James Holmes Schoedde, K.C.B., and the other officers of the navy, army, and Royal Marines, including those in the service of the East India Company, both European and native, for the energy, ability, and gallantry with which they have executed the various services which they have been called upon to perform.
"That this House doth acknowledge and highly approve the gallantry, discipline, and uniform good conduct displayed by the petty officers, non-commissioned officers, and men of the navy, army, and Royal Marines, including the troops in the service of the East India Company's service, both European and native, the cordial good feeling which has subsisted between all the branches of the united services; and the honourable emulation exhibited by all in the discharge of the various duties required by the peculiar nature of the operations to be performed; and that the same be communicated to them by the commanders of the several ships and corps, who are respectfully desired to thank them for their gallant behaviour."
He would also move that the Lord Chancellor be requested to communicate the above resolution to the forces engaged in China.
The Earl of Aucklandconcurred in every word which had fallen from the noble Duke in admiration of the services rendered both by the military and naval forces in China; but for his own satisfaction, as he had himself selected for that service Sir Hugh Gough and Sir William Parker, and as those distinguished officers had served for some time under his instructions, he trusted he might be permitted to say that he would ever feel pride in looking back upon their intercourse with him during one part of the progress of these operations. They were officers who had no superiors in judgment, skill, and determination, and in the eulogiums pronounced upon them he most fully and entirely agreed. Upon the services which they had rendered it was not

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for him to enlarge. He rejoiced that they had been the instruments of performing those great services to this country, that they had been the means of procuring that peace which promised everything that could be desired from it as the result of a glorious and successful war—and he rejoiced that they would receive the distinction of the thanks of both Houses of Parliament. Before he sat down, their Lordships would permit him to allude to what had fallen from the noble Duke. The noble Duke had spoken of the services of the army and navy, but to one branch of the army he himself would try to call the particular attention of their Lordships. He meant the native Indians. Those gallant troops were taken from home, were placed in a position on board ship most repugnant to their tastes and habits, and the answer of the native soldier to his commander, on being questioned as to his feelings upon going on such service, was then, what it had invariably been, "Where you go, we will go." These were not mere words of compliment. The Sepoys embarked with cheerfulness—they bore privations with cheerfulness—and proved themselves in these respects second to none. He was glad, from his own feelings towards the native troops, to bear such testimony in their favour; but after what had already passed, he would detain the House no longer upon the subject.
The Duke of Wellingtonhad to apologise for not having more particularly alluded to the Sepoy troops. He had had occasion to take particular notice of the conduct of a company of Bengal Sepoys in the attack upon the heights of Canton. He believed that that company was intended to keep up the communication between two considerable bodies of our troops. These troops were withdrawn, but, somehow, the order to withdraw did not reach the Sepoys in sufficient time, and they were placed in a situation of much peril. They attempt ed to defend themselves by means of their fire arms, but, unfortunately, their muskets would not go off, owing, he believed, to the damp. They kept their ground, however, and gallantly defended themselves with the bayonet, until they were joined by a company of the Royal Marines, sent to relieve them. Their conduct had been most satisfactory.
The Marquess of Lansdownesaid, no one could feel more strongly than he did how impossible it would be for him to add
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any weight to the testimony of the noble Duke, testimony which no one could feel so eminently qualified to bear to the great merit of the services which had been rendered upon the late important occasion. It would be useless for him to express his humble, though warm concurrence in the feelings and sentiments given utterance to by the noble Duke, were he not desirous of expressing the only thing in the shape of a regret which he could feel in connection with the vote before the House, and it was this—that, owing, he had no doubt, to technical considerations in connection with the vote now proposed, inasmuch as that vole merely referred to military and naval services—owing to these technical considerations, and only owing to them, he had no doubt it was that they did not find included in the vote proposed the name of an individual, an eminent and distinguished officer in another service, but who, on the late occasion, had acted in a political capacity—he alluded to Sir Henry Pottinger—a distinguished officer in the service of the East India Company, but who, on the late occasion, had officiated in those parts of the world in the capacity of plenipotentiary of her Majesty. If it happened, from the technical considerations which he had alluded to, that his name was not included in the vote, let not their Lordships forget that he acted not only as plenipotentiary in concluding the treaty of peace, but that he was throughout the whole of the late operations aiding and assisting in person the exertions of the forces upon every occasion, lending his powerful assistance to the military operations carried on by the commander and admiral of the laud and sea forces, and contributing largely to that which the noble Duke had justly adverted to as forming one of the most satisfactory features of the war—that spirit of humanity, and good order, and conciliation, which, during the late operations, was, through his advice, as well as by the authority of those eminent commanders with whom he acted, strictly enforced and invariably maintained and to which, no doubt, might in a great degree be attributed the brilliant and complete success which had attended them. Indeed he thought that it would appear, from the more recent proceedings of the Chinese government, that they were yielding under the effects produced upon the people of the country by the conciliatory nature of the measures which had been

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adopted—measures which were teaching the Chinese to look as friends and not as enemies upon our troops—and teaching them, also, what order of things connected with our relations with them, would best tend to their future tranquillity, and to their immediate exemption from the sufferings and the privations of war. To that system being uniformly persevered in, the authority, the presence, and the advice of Sir Henry Pottinger directly and essentially contributed. He trusted, in making these remarks, that the noble Duke would not think that he adverted to the services of the officer he alluded to as meaning to impute blame to him (the Duke of Wellington), if, on technical grounds, he had been prevented from including his name in the vote before the House. But he did feel that it was impossible to allow the occasion to pass—and he was not influenced by personal acquaintance with the officer in question—without expressing what he felt of admiration for that career which had been heretofore passed in the service of the East India Company, but which had been no less successful in aiding the service of her Majesty—services of which he hoped it would appear that their Lordships were not and could not be unmindful.
The Duke of Wellingtonconcurred in every word which had been stated by his noble Friend relative to the distinguished services of Sir Henry Pottinger through all the late operations. He had negotiated the treaty of peace, but that treaty was not yet under the consideration of the House. Under these circumstances, therefore, he could not consistently with the forms of the House, include Sir Henry Pottinger's name in the vote now proposed without laying on the Table of the House all the papers connected with that treaty of peace. He had no doubt whatever, that if they could be laid before the House at that moment evidence would be furnished sufficient to attract the admiration of every man in England to Sir Henry Pottinger; but they could not be produced at present; and, therefore, the name of that gallant officer could not be included in the vote he had the honour of proposing.
Lord Broughamwould call the attention of their Lordships for one moment to a certain singularity in the circumstances under which the present vote of thanks to the army and navy in China would be
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passed. On former occasions the thanks of Parliament, prefaced by panegyrical addresses, had been moved by political chiefs and party men in both Houses; but at present it did so happen that this vote was proposed by a man, with respect to whom every one who would receive it would prefer his single opinion, his single panegyric, to votes of thanks from both Houses of Parliament. The subject of this vote had already been disposed of—for of what value could their assent be to it? It could add little more than mere form to the substance with which the noble Duke had already endowed them. The noble Duke had observed on the great skill of the combined operations of the army and navy. He had always understood that of all military operations, the most difficult to plan and hard to execute were the combined movements of land and sea forces; but the late operations, beside having contended with these difficulties, had been attended by obstacles of a very peculiar, if not an unparalleled, nature, as his noble Friend had clearly shewn. In agreeing to this vote of thanks, of course he pronounced no opinion on any subject but the naval and military services performed—no opinion upon the political part of the subject, no approval of the war in which the services of the army and navy had become necessary—which had been performed and brought to a happy, because a peaceful termination. He hoped and trusted that that termination would be for good; he hoped that all men's care would be bestowed and their efforts directed tore-store complete, cordial, and lasting relations of amity—a really hearty good understanding between this country and the Chinese empire. He had lived long enough to be aware of what his noble Friend hinted, in his clear and distinct statement, that there existed some little difference between the difficulties and the perils with which our gallant countrymen had to contend during the earlier period of the war compared with those which had been met and surmounted in the latter. The Chinese were not only most numerous—so numerous that their resources were almost incalculable—that their people were to be counted by hundreds of millions, but they had the power of increasing their armies almost to their wishes, and their revenue to such a degree, that a poll-tax amounting to one shilling per head would pour from fifteen to sixteen millions of pounds sterling into their revenues without hindrance or difficulty.

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They were also a clever people—they were an ingenious people—and they were emphatically an imitative people. Therefore there was some little difference in our situation with respect to them, when they had learned from us somewhat of our tactics towards the close of the war; and he would very much wonder, should a good understanding not be restored—should a feeling of revenge be left rankling in their breasts, if they were not to take steps during the peace they at present enjoyed, and which they had purchased by costly sacrifices of treasure, as well as blood—and of towns and islands as well as blood and treasure—to turn to account those faculties and resources which he had alluded to, so as to make the next campaign which might be carried on in our eastern dominions of much longer duration and of much more doubtful issue than the one which had just been happily concluded. For which reasons he hoped—and he would repeat the wish he had already expressed—that every pains might be taken, both by the Government here and by the Government in India, to restore not a nominal peace, but a real and cordial good understanding with that great and powerful empire.
The Earl of Haddingtonfelt sure, and could assure the noble and learned Lord, that such pains would be taken, that such efforts would be made; and he trusted that the result of the late glorious operations would be, with respect to the feeling of the Chinese, very different from that which the noble Lord seemed to anticipate. Their Lordships might believe that he would not be guilty of the bad taste of travelling again over the ground trodden by his noble Friend near him. He knew full well what was the value of praise from him, and he was not about to add his eulogiums to those passed by the noble Duke. But being placed at the head of one of the branches of the services engaged in the late great operations to which the noble Duke had done so much justice, he rose for the purpose of returning thanks to the noble Duke, on the part of the naval service, for the eulogiums bestowed upon it. He congratulated the navy, in having had its panegyric pronounced by an authority the value of which could not be overstated. But he would add one word before sitting down with reference to the crews of the East India Company's steamers. By them was a most important part of the service
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in China carried on. The great majority of the steamers present there were supplied by the East India Company. They were not, he believed, necessarily belonging to the East-Indian navy, but hired for the occasion by the Company, to whom he hoped the thanks of the House would also be voted. Some of these steamers were commanded by officers in the Royal Navy; and the Board of Admiralty had done all that was in their power to testify their sense of the services rendered by these steamers, by the notice they had taken of those of the officers commanding them who were more immediately under their control. Some of those officers had greatly distinguished themselves, and their conduct had been followed by suitable promotion and reward. He would detain their Lordships no longer, but would once more express, on the part of the navy, his thanks for the manner in which the noble Duke had characterised that branch of the public service.
The Earl of Mintowould not detain their Lordships many minutes, but he could not refrain from saying that he concurred, fully concurred, with the noble Duke in the admiration which he had expressed of the great actions performed by both branches of the service, and of the skill and perseverance by means of which difficulties of no ordinary nature had been successfully surmounted. For when they remembered that the late naval operations had been conducted in strange and unexplored seas, particularly abounding with the dangers common to navigation, and surrounded by hostile coasts, it must appear extraordinary, not only that success so great could have crowned our efforts, but that the British flag could have been carried by British cruisers before the walls of Canton, inside of the bar of the Pei-ho, and as far as Nankin. There was one point, however, to which he must allude, although it was with somewhat of regret that he found himself obliged to do so. He referred to the distinctions made between the rewards bestowed upon the commanders of the different branches of the services employed in China. Sir Hugh Gough having been created a Baronet, while Sir Wm. Parker had only been rewarded with the grand cross of the Order of the Bath. He was aware of the circumstances which had led to this unfortunate distinction having been made. He understood that the grand cross of the

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Bath having been previously bestowed upon Sir Hugh Gough, the Baronetcy was conferred upon him as the only further reward which could be properly bestowed. At the same time, he did not think that this partiality of distinction was at all advisable. In the expedition there had indeed been no rivalry between the chiefs of the respective portions of it, except as to which should best perform his duty to his service and his country; yet, in the case in question, the expedition, if it had any peculiarly distinctive character, was certainly rather a naval than a military expedition. The greatest difficulties to be removed were those surmounted by the naval Commander-in-chief. These difficulties were difficulties of navigation, and, of course, from the very nature of the case, it was impossible that it could be other wise. The greater burthen of the service fell, then, upon the naval branch; and, such being the case, it might be thought an invidious distinction that Sir Hugh Gough should have been enabled to transmit to his posterity the honours he had won in China, while Sir William Parker's distinctions would die with himself. He was very sure that Sir William Parker would look upon the cross of the order of the Bath as a high honour; and if the case rested on the adequacy of the reward he had received to the services which he had performed, he (the Earl of Minto) would not have a word to say upon the subject; but seeing that, in addition to the grand cross of the order of the Bath, Sir Hugh Gough had been rewarded in another manner, he did trust that the subject, if now, at least at some future lime, would come under the consideration of her Majesty's Government, and that Sir William Parker would have the satisfaction of knowing that he would transmit his well-won honours to posterity.
The Duke of Wellingtonsaid, that his noble Friend had correctly stated the reason why the honours alluded to had been apportioned as they were. One commander had already received a cross of the order of the Bath, and consequently, it was necessary that another reward should be bestowed upon him. There was not—there could be no doubt as to the correctness of what the noble Lord had stated, with respect to the importance of the operation carried on by the naval branch of the service; there was no doubt of the exertions made by its
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commander. Without the ships the army could not have moved a single yard. But it was not to be supposed that those whose duty it was to advise her Majesty with respect to the distinction to be conferred could have made any mistake with respect to the nature of those services. The rewards had been apportioned as they were for the very reason which the noble Lord had stated. It was contrary to the usual practice to confer more than one honour of the kind alluded to at the same moment; but then it would be remembered that there was no necessary limit imposed by the course which had been pursued to the graciousness of her Majesty.
The Earl of Mintowas entirely satisfied with the explanation of the noble Duke. There had been no slight intended towards Sir William Parker.
The Duke of Wellington: No, no; certainly not.
The Earl of Haddingtonsaid, that any charge of the nature now hinted at would naturally fall upon him; but he could assure his noble Friend that the services of Sir William Parker were not overlooked when the baronetcy and the grand cross had been bestowed. But it would be remembered, with reference to the distinction awarded, that Sir Hugh Gough had been for a longer period employed in the Chinese service than Sir William Parker, that he had already received the honour of a grand cross of the order of the Bath, and that there remained but a baronetcy to add; and he believed that, had they both been conferred upon Sir William Parker, such a course would have really appeared to be of an invidious nature. With respect to the services rendered by Admiral Parker, he must not be deterred from saying that they had been most eminent. That gallant officer went out with a high professional character, to which he had greatly added by his exertions, which had placed him in a position which would carry his name down to after ages as having been one of those who had done good service to their country.
The Earl of Aberdeensaid, that he agreed with his noble Friend opposite with respect to the conduct of Sir Henry Pottinger. The details of the operations carried on by that officer had come under his observation, and it was impossible to say too much of the discretion, the judgment, the consisteney, and the forbearance which he had practised throughout all the

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negotiations entrusted to his management. His conduct had been such as not only to have ensured success in the negotiations which he carried on, but to have procured for him the respect and attachment of the Chinese with whom he was brought into contact; the sentiments induced in the minds of all with whom he had had any concern had been those of respect and good feeling, hardly to be expected considering the nature of the operations which he was then conducting. Fortunately his services, great as they had been, were still in full operation, and it was his good management and judgment that they were mainly to look to for the further improvement of those successes which had been detailed to the House. Their Lordships might imagine that, placed as he was at such an immense distance from this country, in a part of the world communication with which was so difficult and uncertain—they might imagine the satisfaction which any Government must feel in possessing, in such a situation, a person in whom such confidence might be placed; and it was with entire reliance that the happy result of the late war would be turned to that account which they had a right to expect, that they reposed their confidence in the discretion and ability of the distinguished officer alluded to.
Resolution carried unanimously. Lord ships adjourned until Thursday.